View Full Version : Why does everyone act like MJ never had a bad playoff series?
eliteballer
10-28-2011, 04:37 PM
85: Bucks
87: Celtics
88: Pistons
89: Pistons
90: Pistons
92: Knicks
93: Knicks
95: Magic
96: Magic, Knicks, Sonics
97: Hawks, Heat
Shot poorly vs all these teams
Dictator
10-28-2011, 04:38 PM
Uh oh...better start checking your rep daily..........
inb4.........
No player in any sports has a perfect career. But in the end all the good games of MJ trumps he's bad game.
SAKOTXA
10-28-2011, 04:51 PM
Off topic, but i'm watching the game 2 of the 1993 NBA finals on NBATV. MJ made the game look so easy. :bowdown:
Oh and Danny Ainge is underrated.
nnn123
10-28-2011, 05:18 PM
Because he's only had like 3 bad series in his career, almost all of them happening outside his prime: 93 knicks, 95 magic, 97 heat. Not sure why OP listed those other series
Inception28
10-28-2011, 05:19 PM
Because his great playoff series completely outweigh them.
Da_Realist
10-28-2011, 05:24 PM
Because he's only had like 3 bad series in his career, almost all of them happening outside his prime: 93 knicks, 95 magic, 97 heat. Not sure why OP listed those other series
93 Knicks was NOT a bad series. He just shot poorly through most of the games.
Chuck Thou NBA
10-28-2011, 05:24 PM
because he was still young and because he has 6 rings
Da_Realist
10-28-2011, 05:25 PM
85: Bucks
87: Celtics
88: Pistons
89: Pistons
90: Pistons
92: Knicks
96: Magic, Sonics
97: Hawks, Heat
:oldlol: Horrible list
andgar923
10-28-2011, 05:25 PM
85: Bucks
87: Celtics
88: Pistons
89: Pistons
90: Pistons
92: Knicks
96: Magic, Sonics
97: Hawks, Heat
Even then, he's still better than Kobe.
Mad?
Indian guy
10-28-2011, 05:25 PM
This list is so inaccurate :oldlol:
nnn123
10-28-2011, 05:39 PM
93 Knicks was NOT a bad series. He just shot poorly through most of the games.
I would say that the 93 series was a bad series, because there were games where the team NEEDED him to come through, but didn't - games 3, 6. Ditto with 95. I would disagree with people who say he played poorly against the 96 sonics (using FG% as the prime argument), because he dominated the 1st 3 games, leading the team to a 3-0 lead, and only started playing badly with the series out of reach. You could say the same about the 97 heat series.
Mr. I'm So Rad
10-28-2011, 05:41 PM
93 Knicks was NOT a bad series. He just shot poorly through most of the games.
That seems to be the criteria by which most people determine whether a series is bad or not (i.e. Kobe's/LeBron's finals) :confusedshrug:
Duncan21formvp
10-28-2011, 05:45 PM
85: Bucks
87: Celtics
88: Pistons
89: Pistons
90: Pistons
92: Knicks
96: Magic, Sonics
97: Hawks, Heat
And outscored everyone in every series in his career.
Da_Realist
10-28-2011, 05:56 PM
I would say that the 93 series was a bad series, because there were games where the team NEEDED him to come through, but didn't - games 3, 6. Ditto with 95. I would disagree with people who say he played poorly against the 96 sonics (using FG% as the prime argument), because he dominated the 1st 3 games, leading the team to a 3-0 lead, and only started playing badly with the series out of reach. You could say the same about the 97 heat series.
Game 3 -- not only did Jordan almost have a triple double (22, 8, 11, 2, 2) but the Bulls led by 11 points after the 1st Quarter, 19 points after the 2nd Quarter and 23 points after the 3rd Quarter. When did the Bulls need more from him this game? :confusedshrug:
Game 6 -- shot poorly, but still had 9 assists. I'd say this was a sub par game for him but it definitely wasn't a bad series in general.
Game 1 -- bad game
Game 2 -- shot poorly but almost led the team to a comeback win when Scottie was ejected
Game 3 -- see above
Game 4 -- 54 points
Game 5 -- Triple Double, controlled the game from start to finish. Had 11 or 12 assists going into the 4th Quarter
Game 6 -- see above
Not a bad series at all. One of my favorites, actually.
:EDIT Games 4 and 5 were PANTHEON type games. They should count extra. :pimp: Any series that have 2 games like Games 4 and 5 should never count as a "bad series"
That seems to be the criteria by which most people determine whether a series is bad or not (i.e. Kobe's/LeBron's finals) :confusedshrug:
Yes, that's the only thing that matters to some of you.
Miller for 3
10-28-2011, 06:35 PM
And outscored everyone in every series in his career.
Jordan's Bulls, why pretend to be a Spurs fan?
Big#50
10-28-2011, 06:36 PM
I see people still pull the series was out of reach excuse againsr the Sonics. How about we call it for what it really was.
Impact on the game > Stats...
Even though Jordan have a poor shooting specially in sonics and knicks series, but the impact that he brings in the game is unbelievable.
Mr. I'm So Rad
10-28-2011, 06:44 PM
Game 3 -- not only did Jordan almost have a triple double (22, 8, 11, 2, 2) but the Bulls led by 11 points after the 1st Quarter, 19 points after the 2nd Quarter and 23 points after the 3rd Quarter. When did the Bulls need more from him this game? :confusedshrug:
Game 6 -- shot poorly, but still had 9 assists. I'd say this was a sub par game for him but it definitely wasn't a bad series in general.
Game 1 -- bad game
Game 2 -- shot poorly but almost led the team to a comeback win when Scottie was ejected
Game 3 -- see above
Game 4 -- 54 points
Game 5 -- Triple Double, controlled the game from start to finish. Had 11 or 12 assists going into the 4th Quarter
Game 6 -- see above
Not a bad series at all. One of my favorites, actually.
:EDIT Games 4 and 5 were PANTHEON type games. They should count extra. :pimp: Any series that have 2 games like Games 4 and 5 should never count as a "bad series"
Yes, that's the only thing that matters to some of you.
Oh I don't think that way. That's the way a lot of posters think on here. Low FG% = bad game/series.
I like to look beyond simple FG%
Dave3
10-28-2011, 06:52 PM
85: Bucks
87: Celtics
88: Pistons
89: Pistons
90: Pistons
92: Knicks
96: Magic, Sonics
97: Hawks, Heat
29/9/6 on 57% TS% as a rookie is bad????
36/6/6 on 43/40/90 (53% TS%) is bad??? Those stats kill Kobe's Finals MVP...which I'm sure you call a great series.
And those are just the first 2 named. Won't even bother checking the rest.
Dayum, by those standards there are very few "good" playoff series in NBA history.
eliteballer
10-28-2011, 07:14 PM
:oldlol: So now shooting 43%(In the 80's, mind you) is considered "good", because its Jordan.
Let's not forget he had the benefit of a short 3 point line in 95/96/97
Dave3
10-28-2011, 07:17 PM
:oldlol: So now shooting 43%(In the 80's, mind you) is considered "good", because its Jordan.
Let's not forget he had the benefit of a short 3 point line in 95/96/97
Shooting 43% with 40% 3FGA and 90% FT on 13 free throws a game and 36 ppg is bad? Answer straight forward. No one said it was "good" but it sure as hell isn't bad. It is pretty good though considering the defense he was playing and the teammates he had. Context genius. But answer honestly, 36/7/6 on 43/40/90 is bad? I know for a fact you won't answer, because by saying yes you admit that too many of Kobe's series are bad as well.
eliteballer
10-28-2011, 07:20 PM
Considering the era, YES 43% is bad no matter what. You're acting like dude was htting 6 3's a game.....:sleeping
Dave3
10-28-2011, 07:25 PM
Considering the era, YES 43% is bad no matter what. You're acting like dude was htting 6 3's a game.....:sleeping
I didn't ask if 43% was bad. I asked if 36/7/6 on 43/40/90 was bad. Nice selectivity though...
And what does era matter if it was all against one team, one team that has a better defensive rating than the majority of teams today...but yeah, era...:rolleyes:
eliteballer
10-28-2011, 07:28 PM
Pistons used to allow more PPG than Nash/Dirk Mavs:no:
Dave3
10-28-2011, 07:29 PM
Pistons used to allow more PPG than Nash/Dirk Mavs:no:
Great. We're talking about the Celtics and defensive rating, not points allowed. Points allowed depends on pace, FG% depends on defensive rating, and you're talking about FG%. Why bring up total points allowed? Stay on subject buddy.
eliteballer
10-28-2011, 07:31 PM
Pace definitely affects fg%, you're going to have more fast break opportunities, more open lanes, more energy will be committed to offense instead of defense etc.
Dave3
10-28-2011, 07:33 PM
Pace definitely affects fg%, you're going to have more fast break opportunities, more open lanes, more energy will be committed to offense instead of defense etc.
Doesn't matter if the defensive rating is high:facepalm. That's what defensive rating does, it rates DEFENSE, including the FG% given up. Way to go around the topic though. Love how you still didn't answer the question.
Deuce Bigalow
10-28-2011, 07:43 PM
I didn't ask if 43% was bad. I asked if 36/7/6 on 43/40/90 was bad. Nice selectivity though...
And what does era matter if it was all against one team, one team that has a better defensive rating than the majority of teams today...but yeah, era...:rolleyes:
he put that as a bad series?
Dave3
10-28-2011, 07:49 PM
he put that as a bad series?
Yup....:oldlol:
And 29/9/6 as a rookie...
And those are just the first two...didn't even bother anything else after that.
eliteballer
10-28-2011, 07:49 PM
How does going 2-5 3's in the entire series make his "ts%" go to 53, from a 43 FG%?:roll:
Dave3
10-28-2011, 07:51 PM
How does going 2-5 3's in the entire series make his "ts%" go to 53, from a 43 FG%?:roll:
Because TS% includes freethrows genius. You're laughing at yourself right now...
Boston C's
10-28-2011, 07:52 PM
How does going 2-5 3's in the entire series make his "ts%" go to 53, from a 43 FG%?:roll:
you are a pathetic kobe ******ger... let it go jordan is retired and you still try to bash the guy... nobody says this guy never had a bad series EVERYONE has a bad series nobodies perfect but you making this thread to try to undermine jordans greatness is absolutely pathetic
Deuce Bigalow
10-28-2011, 07:54 PM
Yup....:oldlol:
And 29/9/6 as a rookie...
And those are just the first two...didn't even bother anything else after that.
:oldlol:
wow
It's pretty crazy to see what people will convince themselves of when they have an agenda.
eliteballer
10-28-2011, 08:05 PM
:oldlol:
wow
Look at his fg%......
Jordan >>>>>>>>> Kobe, Shaq, Magic, Kareem, Wilt
Dave3
10-28-2011, 08:11 PM
Look at his fg%......
Good to see you understand basketball.
bwink23
10-28-2011, 08:13 PM
Look at his fg%......
Certainly 43%FG is not good by Jordan standards. Isn't 43% damn near Kobe's playoff FG% for his WHOLE PLAYOFF CAREER??
What does that say about Kobe?
Asukal
10-28-2011, 08:20 PM
OP who the hell is claiming Jordan never had a bad PO series? GTFO with your bullshit agenda. :facepalm
Dave3
10-28-2011, 08:23 PM
OP who the hell is claiming Jordan never had a bad PO series? GTFO with your bullshit agenda. :facepalm
Not only that, but he picks series of 36 ppg and 29/9/6 (as a ROOKIE) to demonstrate these "bad" examples, because "look at his FG%":oldlol:
nnn123
10-28-2011, 08:31 PM
Not only that, but he picks series of 36 ppg and 29/9/6 (as a ROOKIE) to demonstrate these "bad" examples, because "look at his FG%":oldlol:
Dare you to look at some of the other selections on the list, even funnier
Dave3
10-28-2011, 08:38 PM
Dare you to look at some of the other selections on the list, even funnier
36 PPG. How can it get more retarded than that? Give me a couple examples:oldlol:
Yao Ming's Foot
10-28-2011, 09:03 PM
Jordan's worst playoff performances were against the two teams with the lowest defensive rating that he faced...
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Dave3
10-28-2011, 09:04 PM
Jordan's worst playoff performances were against the two teams with the lowest defensive rating that he faced...
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
You mean good defense slows down good offense? Never thought I'd see that correlation:oldlol:
Yao Ming's Foot
10-28-2011, 09:13 PM
You mean good defense slows down good offense? Never thought I'd see that correlation:oldlol:
Yeah imagine if he had to face Kobe style defenses in the Finals
hmmmmmmmmmmm
Sampsonsimpson
10-28-2011, 09:19 PM
Considering the era, YES 43% is bad no matter what. You're acting like dude was htting 6 3's a game.....:sleeping
43% isnt too far off from Kobe's career average of 45%. And I know dam well that number dips for him more often than not in the playoffs.
Timmy D for MVP
10-28-2011, 09:43 PM
Yeah imagine if he had to face Kobe style defenses in the Finals
hmmmmmmmmmmm
I know. It would have been a massacre he'd have gone off! :eek:
AceManIII
10-28-2011, 09:44 PM
:oldlol: Sad agenda..
Dave3
10-28-2011, 10:12 PM
Yeah imagine if he had to face Kobe style defenses in the Finals
hmmmmmmmmmmm
Jordan played against "Kobe level defense" in 2002 and 2003 when defenses were even stronger than they are now (and he was um, 40) and did pretty well. Doubt he'd have trouble in his prime.
StarJordan
10-28-2011, 10:29 PM
'93 knick series was bad series.....it was epic...you forgot his 54 point BOMB against NY in game 4.....has kobe ever had 54 in his entire playoff career?
Game 5 go ask charles smith...
Worst Jordan playoff series > just about all of kobe's best series
but.. but... 6 ringz!!!one!!111!! >>>
MJ was human just like anybody else... 4-7 games is enough for ANYBODY to average numbers below their standards...
RazorBaLade
10-28-2011, 10:53 PM
'93 knick series was bad series.....it was epic...you forgot his 54 point BOMB against NY in game 4.....has kobe ever had 54 in his entire playoff career?
Game 5 go ask charles smith...
Worst Jordan playoff series > just about all of kobe's best series
kobes had 50.
lol tho, jord avatar jordan name.. surely u have no bias
Deuce Bigalow
10-28-2011, 11:04 PM
but.. but... 6 ringz!!!one!!111!! >>>
MJ was human just like anybody else... 4-7 games is enough for ANYBODY to average numbers below their standards...
but did he disappear?
SunsCaptain
10-28-2011, 11:10 PM
Kobes bad playoff series:
LA VS UTA 97
LA VS POR 98
LA VS UTA 98
LA VS IND 00
LA VS POR 02
LA VS SAC 02
LA VS HOU 04
LA VS MIN 04
LA VS DET 04 - massacre...lost team the Finals <-- With Shaq
05 didn't make playoffs
06 first round exit
07 first round exit
LA VS BOS 08 - Massacre...lost team the Finals <-- With newly acquired Gasol
LA VS HOU 09
LA VS OKC 10
LA VS BOS 10
LA VS NOH 11
LA VS DAL 11
I left out debatable series.
catch24
10-28-2011, 11:20 PM
Kobes bad playoff series:
LA VS UTA 97
LA VS POR 98
LA VS UTA 98
LA VS IND 00
LA VS POR 02
LA VS SA 02
LA VS HOU 04
LA VS MIN 04
LA VS DET 04 - massacre...lost team the Finals
05 didn't make playoffs
06 first round exit
07 first round exit
LA VS BOS 08 - Massacre...lost team the Finals
LA VS HOU 09
LA VS OKC 10
LA VS BOS 10
LA VS NOH 11
LA VS DAL 11
I left out debatable series.
What? LOL...how did Kobe have a bad series against SA in '02? Phoenix in 2006 and 2007? Boston in 2010 or NOH this past year? If you really think he was awful those series' explain why. Don't just spout out lists like a moron. Give your reasons.
Mr. I'm So Rad
10-28-2011, 11:21 PM
What? LOL...how did Kobe have a bad series against SA in '02? Phoenix in 2006 and 2007? Boston in 2010 or NOH this past year? If you really think he was awful those series' explain why. Don't just spout out lists like a moron. Give your reasons.
Please don't even goad him. He's just one of the many Kobe haters. We shouldn't derail this already terrible thread.
Deuce Bigalow
10-28-2011, 11:23 PM
Suns fan, you forgot to mention the 2010 WCF :oldlol:
but did he disappear?
i guess so if thats what you call playing bad or performing under your standards.... :confusedshrug:
anything less than 30-10-10 is "disappearing" for Lebron & Jordan.... :pimp:
Deuce Bigalow
10-28-2011, 11:24 PM
i guess so if thats what you call playing bad or performing under your standards.... :confusedshrug:
4th quarter..
SunsCaptain
10-28-2011, 11:25 PM
What? LOL...how did Kobe have a bad series against SA in '02? Phoenix in 2006 and 2007? Boston in 2010 or NOH this past year? If you really think he was awful those series' explain why. Don't just spout out lists like a moron. Give your reasons.
I didnt say phx in 06 and 07 I just stated they had a first round exit. Everything on the list is true. And its SAC not SA forgot the C
4th quarter..
what about it? if you lose the series... then ofcourse you sucked in the 4th quarter... thats where you CLOSE a game out...
if you did not win a game... then you were not able to CLOSE the game out.. and that is done in the 4th quarter
thats why i put blame on both Wade & Lebron.... they were not able to close out games in the Finals....
Deuce Bigalow
10-28-2011, 11:27 PM
what about it? if you lose the series... then ofcourse you sucked in the 4th quarter... thats where you CLOSE a game out...
if you did not win a game... then you were not able to CLOSE the game out.. and that is done in the 4th quarter
I meant did he pulled a Lebron in the 4th
Deuce Bigalow
10-28-2011, 11:29 PM
i guess so if thats what you call playing bad or performing under your standards.... :confusedshrug:
anything less than 30-10-10 is "disappearing" for Lebron & Jordan.... :pimp:
get those two away from each other
Jordan wouldve never been outscored by a bench player
17.8 ppg and the largest drop-off in Finals history is disappearing, like your boy
I meant did he pulled a Lebron in the 4th
More like PULLED A KOBE... considering he has been less efficient-productive in the 4th quarter area than both Lebron or Jordan..... and lately pulled a Kobe in a sweep early in the playoffs...
If you call "Not being able to close a game out in one or a couple more games"... then yes... Jordan and maaaaaaaaany else pulled a kobe...
catch24
10-28-2011, 11:31 PM
Please don't even goad him. He's just one of the many Kobe haters. We shouldn't derail this already terrible thread.
True. It's just comical that he made a list of 'Kobe's bad series' yet didn't even explain why he was "bad" in them. Now he's discarding the 2006 and 2007 Suns series as first round exits :lol
Kblaze8855
10-28-2011, 11:32 PM
If like....4 of the 5 worst playoff series of his career were his career numbers....he would still be in the conversation for GOAT.
Deuce Bigalow
10-28-2011, 11:35 PM
More like PULLED A KOBE... considering he has been less efficient-productive in the 4th quarter area than both Lebron or Jordan..... and lately pulled a Kobe in a sweep early in the playoffs...
If you call "Not being able to close a game out in one or a couple more games"... then yes... Jordan and maaaaaaaaany else pulled a kobe...
:facepalm
Kobe is on another level
0-7, just like your boy
SunsCaptain
10-28-2011, 11:36 PM
True. He makes a list of 'Kobe's bad series' yet doesn't even explain why he was bad in them. Now he's discarding the 2006 and 2007 Suns series as first round exits :lol
I'm not discarding them? It's a fact. They were a first round exit.
Its interesting history that Kobe was
slaughtered in 04
didn't make the playoffs in 05
first round exit in 06
first round exit in 07
slaughtered in 08
That is set in stone.
That is why they acquire Pau Gasol. Kobe cant do jack by himself.
He lost with shaq in 04 because he killed his own team.
Then when shaq left he couldnt make the playoffs then couldnt get out of the first round two years in a row so they picked up Pau in 08...But guess what Kobe shot his own team in the foot AGAIN.
The Lakers have carried Kobe throughout his career. Kobe blows.
Deuce Bigalow
10-28-2011, 11:37 PM
2000 Finals, Game 4
Kobe took over that overtime
at age 21, that is better than anything Lebron ever did in his Finals career:oldlol:
Deuce Bigalow
10-28-2011, 11:38 PM
I'm not discarding them? It's a fact. They were a first round exit.
Its interesting history that Kobe was
slaughtered in 04
didn't make the playoffs in 05
first round exit in 06
first round exit in 07
slaughtered in 08
That is set in stone.
That is why they acquire Pau Gasol. Kobe cant do jack by himself.
He lost with shaq in 04 because he killed his own team.
Then when shaq left he couldnt make the playoffs then couldnt get out of the first round two years in a row so they picked up Pau in 08...But guess what Kobe shot his own team in the foot AGAIN.
The Lakers have carried Kobe throughout his career. Kobe blows.
2010 WCF, did you cry when Kobe raped your team?
SunsCaptain
10-28-2011, 11:45 PM
I'm not discarding them? It's a fact. They were a first round exit.
Its interesting history that Kobe was
slaughtered in 04
didn't make the playoffs in 05
first round exit in 06
first round exit in 07
slaughtered in 08
That is set in stone.
That is why they acquire Pau Gasol. Kobe cant do jack by himself.
He lost with shaq in 04 because he killed his own team.
Then when shaq left he couldnt make the playoffs then couldnt get out of the first round two years in a row so they picked up Pau in 08...But guess what Kobe shot his own team in the foot AGAIN.
The Lakers have carried Kobe throughout his career. Kobe blows.
Rabble Rabble Rabble
AlphaWolf24
10-28-2011, 11:48 PM
:oldlol: @ Jordan stans who never even watched him play...
Jordan had plenty of Bad Playoff series.....dude had a reputation as a ballhogging shotjacker (who routinely checked his stats to make sure he had a High PPG)....
that was until he finally broke through and won 3 years on a row....many thought his selfish style was never going to get him a ring.....even when he scored say...hmm...63 points...his teams still lost bad.....
thank goodness for PJax and Pip....
next
Cali Syndicate
10-29-2011, 12:26 AM
:oldlol: @ Jordan stans who never even watched him play...
Jordan had plenty of Bad Playoff series.....dude had a reputation as a ballhogging shotjacker (who routinely checked his stats to make sure he had a High PPG)....
that was until he finally broke through and won 3 years on a row....many thought his selfish style was never going to get him a ring.....even when he scored say...hmm...63 points...his teams still lost bad.....
thank goodness for PJax and Pip....
next
That 63 point game went into double overtime and the Bulls lost by 4. How did they lose bad?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO_HKcCMYig
Also had Pippen or any of his other teammates for that matter showed up in game 7 of the 90's ECF, Bulls may have at least had a chance. Jordan puts up a near 30 point triple double on good efficiency and they lose by 20. Grant was the only other player to score in double digits while shooting 3-17 and the team in all shot 15-63 outside of Jordan.
How is Jordan to blame?
ofcourse he "choked" just like anybody else on some games... but he was the most talented-skilled player ever man.... so he "choked" therefore to a much lesser degree compared to anybody else... especially KOBRICK
Asukal
10-29-2011, 12:36 AM
Its funny how these topics come out of no where with a stupid agenda trying to degrade Jordan to prop up Kobe and if you defend Jordan you are automatically a Kobe hater. Why don't you Kobe stans just accept reality for what it is? Kobe is a top ten player all time, that is a great achievement considering there are a lot of great players in the history of the NBA. Kobe isn't even done yet, he still has a chance to crack the top 5 with his remaining years in the league. You guys really make it easy to dislike Kobe, fuvking retards. :facepalm
SunsCaptain
10-29-2011, 12:39 AM
Its funny how these topics come out of no where with a stupid agenda trying to degrade Jordan to prop up Kobe and if you defend Jordan you are automatically a Kobe hater. Why don't you Kobe stans just accept reality for what it is? Kobe is a top ten player all time, that is a great achievement considering there are a lot of great players in the history of the NBA. Kobe isn't even done yet, he still has a chance to crack the top 5 with his remaining years in the league. You guys really make it easy to dislike Kobe, fuvking retards. :facepalm
I know it's more the fact that people hate the Kobe trolls than they dislike Kobe himself.
:facepalm:facepalm
Its funny how these topics come out of no where with a stupid agenda trying to degrade Jordan to prop up Kobe and if you defend Jordan you are automatically a Kobe hater. Why don't you Kobe stans just accept reality for what it is? Kobe is a top ten player all time, that is a great achievement considering there are a lot of great players in the history of the NBA. Kobe isn't even done yet, he still has a chance to crack the top 5 with his remaining years in the league. You guys really make it easy to dislike Kobe, fuvking retards. :facepalm
This!
AlphaWolf24
10-29-2011, 01:11 AM
That 63 point game went into double overtime and the Bulls lost by 4. How did they lose bad?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO_HKcCMYig
Also had Pippen or any of his other teammates for that matter showed up in game 7 of the 90's ECF, Bulls may have at least had a chance. Jordan puts up a near 30 point triple double on good efficiency and they lose by 20. Grant was the only other player to score in double digits while shooting 3-17 and the team in all shot 15-63 outside of Jordan.
How is Jordan to blame?
yeah the Bull's lost by 4...so in the following game he only scores 5 points in the 2nd half and the Bull's get swept ...yeah MJ in the closeout game scores 4 2nd half points....and get's punted outta the building...
now you harpin on Pippen??....how can anyone else find thier offensive game with MJ shot jacking and ballhogging?....and you are really saying "Jordan doesn't make everyone better"...because....
all I hear from MJ stans is "he made everyone better, carried a bunch of scrubs to 6 Titles"...thanks for clearing it up....he needed HOF teammates to play Top shelf ball.....because as history has shown.....even without MJ , the Bull's are still a very great team capable of nearly winning a championship....
next
AlphaWolf24
10-29-2011, 01:12 AM
Its funny how these topics come out of no where with a stupid agenda trying to degrade Jordan to prop up Kobe and if you defend Jordan you are automatically a Kobe hater. Why don't you Kobe stans just accept reality for what it is? Kobe is a top ten player all time, that is a great achievement considering there are a lot of great players in the history of the NBA. Kobe isn't even done yet, he still has a chance to crack the top 5 with his remaining years in the league. You guys really make it easy to dislike Kobe, fuvking retards. :facepalm
Mad and Blind...:lol
Kobe already the greatest Laker ever....top 5 easily......more like top 3
deal wit son...that's real life
next
Asukal
10-29-2011, 01:28 AM
Mad and Blind...:lol
Kobe already the greatest Laker ever....top 5 easily......more like top 3
deal wit son...that's real life
next
Your stupidity never cease to amuse me. :roll: :roll: :roll:
AlphaWolf24
10-29-2011, 01:31 AM
Your stupidity never cease to amuse me. :roll: :roll: :roll:
I'm stupid for agreeing with Jerry West and Magic:confusedshrug:
come on little homey...you betta then that
next
Asukal
10-29-2011, 01:53 AM
Tell you what, if Kobe wins his 6th ring with dominating performances and finals MVP he deserves top 5 all time.
Cali Syndicate
10-29-2011, 01:57 AM
yeah the Bull's lost by 4...so in the following game he only scores 5 points in the 2nd half and the Bull's get swept ...yeah MJ in the closeout game scores 4 2nd half points....and get's punted outta the building...
now you harpin on Pippen??....how can anyone else find thier offensive game with MJ shot jacking and ballhogging?....and you are really saying "Jordan doesn't make everyone better"...because....
all I hear from MJ stans is "he made everyone better, carried a bunch of scrubs to 6 Titles"...thanks for clearing it up....he needed HOF teammates to play Top shelf ball.....because as history has shown.....even without MJ , the Bull's are still a very great team capable of nearly winning a championship....
next
Is 4 points losing bad? The following game has nothing to do with the fact that he dropped 63 and it was a close game. It was obvious that by game 3, Jordan was spent. A 49 point performance followed by a 63 point performance in extra minutes then a 3rd game all within 5 days? Also consider that he practically spent the entire season with his foot in a cast.
So if Jordan plays great and the Bulls lose it's Jordan's fault. But if Jordan plays great and the Bulls win, it's cause he had HOF's on his team? Did Jordan really play THAT much differently from 88-90 than from 91-93? Could it have been that, just possibly, that like ANY other superstar, that he can't do it on his own? Pippen was hardly an ALL NBA caliber player even in 91.
"Until he broke through?" Naw bruh, Jordan was clearly breaking though even before 91, it just wasn't until 91 when the other key players started breaking through with him.
And Pippen and Grant are scrubs? Says who? I'm pretty sure when people say he played with scrubs, it's the center they are referring to.
Mr. I'm So Rad
10-29-2011, 01:59 AM
Tell you what, if Kobe wins his 6th ring with dominating performances and finals MVP he deserves top 5 all time.
So he just has to do again what he's already done twice before?
Asukal
10-29-2011, 02:01 AM
And Pippen and Grant are scrubs? Says who? I'm pretty sure when people say he played with scrubs, it's the center they are referring to.
Nobody except Jordan stans (I only know genghiskhan) would say something like Jordan played with scrubs in his championship years. :cheers:
Cali Syndicate
10-29-2011, 02:08 AM
yeah the Bull's lost by 4...so in the following game he only scores 5 points in the 2nd half and the Bull's get swept ...yeah MJ in the closeout game scores 4 2nd half points....and get's punted outta the building...
now you harpin on Pippen??....how can anyone else find thier offensive game with MJ shot jacking and ballhogging?....and you are really saying "Jordan doesn't make everyone better"...because....
all I hear from MJ stans is "he made everyone better, carried a bunch of scrubs to 6 Titles"...thanks for clearing it up....he needed HOF teammates to play Top shelf ball.....because as history has shown.....even without MJ , the Bull's are still a very great team capable of nearly winning a championship....
next
And capable of nearly winning a championship? Nice way to say they are just a solid playoff team.
In that case the Grizzlies and Hawks are a team capable of nearly winning a championship too.
Asukal
10-29-2011, 03:10 AM
So he just has to do again what he's already done twice before?
I'd hardly call that dominating. Good performances tho. :cheers:
Yao Ming's Foot
10-29-2011, 03:18 AM
Between the two, 20 out of the best 22 defenses faced in the playoffs were Kobe opponents..
04 Spurs 94.1
99 Spurs 95.0
04 Pistons 95.4
01 Spurs 98.0
01 76ers 98.9
08 Celtics 98.9
00 Suns 99.0
04 Rockets 99.0
02 Nets 99.5
01 Kings 99.6
04 Twolves 99.7
02 Spurs 99.7
03 Spurs 99.7
93 Knicks 99.7
97 Heat 100.6
00 Blazers 100.8
02 Kings 101.1
98 Pacers 101.6
08 Spurs 101.8
01 Blazers 101.8
09 Magic 101.9
00 Kings 102.1
MJ vs 97 Heat
Game 1 15 for 31
Game 2 4 for 15
Game 3 14 for 25
Game 4 9 for 35
Game 5 11 for 31
MJ vs 93 Knicks
Game 1 10 for 27
Game 2 12 for 32
Game 3 3 for 18
Game 4 18 for 30
Game 5 11 for 24
Game 6 8 for 24
hmmmmmmmmmmm
OldSchoolBBall
10-29-2011, 04:31 AM
85: Bucks
87: Celtics
88: Pistons
89: Pistons
90: Pistons
92: Knicks
96: Magic, Sonics
97: Hawks, Heat
Wow, yet ANOTHER agenda thread from the biggest Kobe groupie on the forum. :oldlol:
1985 Bucks: 29 pts/6 reb/9 ast/3 stl/1 blk/44% FG as a rookie while being guarded by the DPOY and another defensive first teamer is bad? Please child... :oldlol:
1987 Celtics: 36 pts/7 reb/6 ast/2 stl/2+ blk/43% FG/53% TS is bad? Err, no - try again. On top of the fact that he was playing one of the GOAT teams, he had ZERO help (his "second option" averaged 20 ppg/38% FG/49% TS - that's not gonna get it done against an offensive powerhouse like those Celtics). He was again guarded by a defensive first teamer and the Celtcs focused on him because he had zero help. His FG% was poor by his standards, but his raw numbers have been matched by your loverboy Kobe a grand total of once or twice in his career in any playoff series (Kobe has also shot 43% or worse in a few different postseasons in their entirety - so it's humorous when a stan like eliteballer harps on MJ's FG% here, which is the only part of his series that was sub-par).
1988 Pistons: 27 pts/9 reb/5 ast/2 stl/1 blk//49% FG while guarded by TWO soon-to-be defensive first teamers and having an entire team defense designed around you ("The Jordan Rules") when you have ZERO help is bad? No.
1989 Pistons: 30 pts/6 reb/7 ast/2 stl/1 blk/46% FG while guarded by TWO defensive first teamers and having an entire team defense designed around you ("The Jordan Rules") when you have ZERO help is bad? No.
1990 Pistons: 32+ pts/7 reb/6+ ast/2 stl/1 blk/47% FG while guarded by TWO defensive first teamers and having an entire team defense designed around you ("The Jordan Rules") when you have far less talent than your opponent is bad? No.
1992 Knicks: 31+ pts/6 reb/4+ ast/1+ stl/1 blk/48% FG while being guarded by a defensive second team member and a bruising team defense is bad? No. Try again.
1996 Magic: 30 pts/6 reb/5 ast/2+ stl/1 blk/52% FG is bad? Give me a break.
1997 Hawks: 27 pts/10+ reb/5+ ast/2+ stl/1.4 blk/45% FG is bad? :oldlol:
The ONLY poor series (by Jordan's standards) you listed are the 1996 Sonics and 1997 Heat series, and even there he was BY FAR the best offensive player on his team, being more efficient than his 2nd through 4th options despite seeing far more defensive pressure and putting up far greater ppg volume.
Seriously eliteballer - you've been exposed as a fraud and a joke so many times I'm losing count. You should just end yourself at this point.
What's funny is that if Kobe puit up HALF of the series mentioned above, Kobe fans would be creaming their pants ('85 Bucks, '87 Celts, '90 Pistons, '96 Magic, '92 Knicks), but somehow these are "bad" series when it's Jordan. :oldlol:
Holy Random
10-29-2011, 04:48 AM
Wow, yet ANOTHER agenda thread from the biggest Kobe groupie on the forum. :oldlol:
1985 Bucks: 29 pts/6 reb/9 ast/3 stl/1 blk/44% FG as a rookie while being guarded by the DPOY and another defensive first teamer is bad? Please child... :oldlol:
1987 Celtics: 36 pts/7 reb/6 ast/2 stl/2+ blk/43% FG/53% TS is bad? Err, no - try again. On top of the fact that he was playing one of the GOAT teams, he had ZERO help (his "second option" averaged 20 ppg/38% FG/49% TS - that's not gonna get it done against an offensive powerhouse like those Celtics). He was again guarded by a defensive first teamer and the Celtcs focused on him because he had zero help. His FG% was poor by his standards, but his raw numbers have been matched by your loverboy Kobe a grand total of once or twice in his career in any playoff series (Kobe has also shot 43% or worse in a few different postseasons in their entirety - so it's humorous when a stan like eliteballer harps on MJ's FG% here, which is the only part of his series that was sub-par).
1988 Pistons: 27 pts/9 reb/5 ast/2 stl/1 blk//49% FG while guarded by TWO soon-to-be defensive first teamers and having an entire team defense designed around you ("The Jordan Rules") when you have ZERO help is bad? No.
1989 Pistons: 30 pts/6 reb/7 ast/2 stl/1 blk/46% FG while guarded by TWO defensive first teamers and having an entire team defense designed around you ("The Jordan Rules") when you have ZERO help is bad? No.
1990 Pistons: 32+ pts/7 reb/6+ ast/2 stl/1 blk/47% FG while guarded by TWO defensive first teamers and having an entire team defense designed around you ("The Jordan Rules") when you have far less talent than your opponent is bad? No.
1992 Knicks: 31+ pts/6 reb/4+ ast/1+ stl/1 blk/48% FG while being guarded by a defensive second team member and a bruising team defense is bad? No. Try again.
1996 Magic: 30 pts/6 reb/5 ast/2+ stl/1 blk/52% FG[/b] is bad? Give me a break.
[u]1997 Hawks[u]: 27 pts/10+ reb/5+ ast/2+ stl/1.4 blk/45% FG is bad? :oldlol:
The ONLY poor series (by Jordan's standards) you listed are the 196 Sonics and 1997 Heat series, and even there he was BY FAR the best offensive player on his team, being more efficient than his 2nd through 4th options despite seeing far more defensive pressure and putting up a far greater pg volume.
Seriously eliteballer - you've been exposed as a fraud and a joke so many times I'm losing count. You should just end yourself at this point.
What's funny is that if Kobe puit up HALF of the series mentioned above, Kobe fans would be creaming their pants ('85 Bucks, '87 Celts, '90 Pistons, '96 Magic, '92 Knicks), but somehow these are "bad" series when it's Jordan. :oldlol:
Yeah pretty much a thread backfire. How that moron didn't realize that all of these 'bad' series still shit's on Kobe is beyond me.
bwink23
10-29-2011, 09:53 AM
yeah the Bull's lost by 4...so in the following game he only scores 5 points in the 2nd half and the Bull's get swept ...yeah MJ in the closeout game scores 4 2nd half points....and get's punted outta the building...
now you harpin on Pippen??....how can anyone else find thier offensive game with MJ shot jacking and ballhogging?....and you are really saying "Jordan doesn't make everyone better"...because....
all I hear from MJ stans is "he made everyone better, carried a bunch of scrubs to 6 Titles"...thanks for clearing it up....he needed HOF teammates to play Top shelf ball.....because as history has shown.....even without MJ , the Bull's are still a very great team capable of nearly winning a championship....
next
I suppose your talking about the team that had 11 players from 2, 3-PEAT championship teams on it's roster in 1994....who COULDN'T win ball games with that squad. How did they do the next year by the way? Let's talk about the 1986 Bulls without Jordan from a foot injury. How did they do? How did they do BEFORE Jordan got drafted?? MORON
TheMan
10-29-2011, 04:57 PM
I'm calling 911 because eliteballer and alphawolf just got anally gang raped by facts.
Thread Backfire
Even the best have had series where they were mediocre(at least for their standards). But how many guys put up 40/8/6 in a Finals? How many have 6 Finals MVPs? How many never EVER lost a series with HCA?
eliteballer
10-29-2011, 05:41 PM
Wow, yet ANOTHER agenda thread from the biggest Kobe groupie on the forum. :oldlol:
1985 Bucks: 29 pts/6 reb/9 ast/3 stl/1 blk/44% FG as a rookie while being guarded by the DPOY and another defensive first teamer is bad? Please child... :oldlol:
1987 Celtics: 36 pts/7 reb/6 ast/2 stl/2+ blk/43% FG/53% TS is bad? Err, no - try again. On top of the fact that he was playing one of the GOAT teams, he had ZERO help (his "second option" averaged 20 ppg/38% FG/49% TS - that's not gonna get it done against an offensive powerhouse like those Celtics). He was again guarded by a defensive first teamer and the Celtcs focused on him because he had zero help. His FG% was poor by his standards, but his raw numbers have been matched by your loverboy Kobe a grand total of once or twice in his career in any playoff series (Kobe has also shot 43% or worse in a few different postseasons in their entirety - so it's humorous when a stan like eliteballer harps on MJ's FG% here, which is the only part of his series that was sub-par).
1988 Pistons: 27 pts/9 reb/5 ast/2 stl/1 blk//49% FG while guarded by TWO soon-to-be defensive first teamers and having an entire team defense designed around you ("The Jordan Rules") when you have ZERO help is bad? No.
1989 Pistons: 30 pts/6 reb/7 ast/2 stl/1 blk/46% FG while guarded by TWO defensive first teamers and having an entire team defense designed around you ("The Jordan Rules") when you have ZERO help is bad? No.
1990 Pistons: 32+ pts/7 reb/6+ ast/2 stl/1 blk/47% FG while guarded by TWO defensive first teamers and having an entire team defense designed around you ("The Jordan Rules") when you have far less talent than your opponent is bad? No.
1992 Knicks: 31+ pts/6 reb/4+ ast/1+ stl/1 blk/48% FG while being guarded by a defensive second team member and a bruising team defense is bad? No. Try again.
1996 Magic: 30 pts/6 reb/5 ast/2+ stl/1 blk/52% FG is bad? Give me a break.
1997 Hawks: 27 pts/10+ reb/5+ ast/2+ stl/1.4 blk/45% FG is bad? :oldlol:
The ONLY poor series (by Jordan's standards) you listed are the 1996 Sonics and 1997 Heat series, and even there he was BY FAR the best offensive player on his team, being more efficient than his 2nd through 4th options despite seeing far more defensive pressure and putting up far greater ppg volume.
Seriously eliteballer - you've been exposed as a fraud and a joke so many times I'm losing count. You should just end yourself at this point.
What's funny is that if Kobe puit up HALF of the series mentioned above, Kobe fans would be creaming their pants ('85 Bucks, '87 Celts, '90 Pistons, '96 Magic, '92 Knicks), but somehow these are "bad" series when it's Jordan. :oldlol:
LMAO @ you acting like shooting in the 40's in the 80's is equivilant to the current era. I'm also pretty sure Jordan shot sub 45% and below 30 ppg in either the 92 or 93 Knicks series:rolleyes:
LMAO @ you acting like shooting in the 40's in the 80's is equivilant to the current era. I'm also pretty sure Jordan shot sub 45% and below 30 ppg in either the 92 or 93 Knicks series:rolleyes:
Kobe Bryant: 4 straight airballs in crunch time against the Jazz :facepalm
Kobe Bryant: Shot 38 percent in the 2004 finals (17 percent from 3) :roll:
Kobe Bryant: Has shot under 30 percent from three 4 times in the playoffs :roll:
Kobe Bryant: Has shot below 44% 6 times in the playoffs.
Kobe Bryant: Had a playoff run of 22 games averaging 4.1 turnovers a game.
Kobe Bryant: Averaged as many turnovers as assists in 2006-07 playoffs. :banghead:
I'm also pretty sure Jordan shot sub 45% and below 30 ppg in either the 92 or 93 Knicks series:rolleyes:
1992
Game 1- 31/6/3/3/1 on 12/23
Game 2- 27/6/5/3 on 12/24
Game 3- 32/9/3/3/1 on 12/24
Game 4- 29/4/4/ on 12/26
Game 5- 37/5/3/1 on 11/23
Game 6- 21/8/4/1 on 9/25
Game 7- 42/6/4/3/2 on 15/29
That's 31.3 PPG on 47.7%
1993
Game 1- 27/5/2/4 on 10/27
Game 2- 36/9/1/2 on 12/32
Game 3- 22/11/8/2/2 on 3/18
Game 4- 54/6/2/2/1 on 18/30
Game 5- 29/14/10/2/1 on 11/24
Game 6- 25/9/2/3/2 on 8/24
That's 32.2 PPG on 40%
TheMan
10-29-2011, 06:07 PM
LMAO @ you acting like shooting in the 40's in the 80's is equivilant to the current era. I'm also pretty sure Jordan shot sub 45% and below 30 ppg in either the 92 or 93 Knicks series:rolleyes:
Just keep digging deeper, lol
Deuce Bigalow
10-29-2011, 06:12 PM
Kobe Bryant: 4 straight airballs in crunch time against the Jazz :facepalm
Kobe Bryant: Shot 38 percent in the 2004 finals (17 percent from 3) :roll:
Kobe Bryant: Has shot under 30 percent from three 4 times in the playoffs :roll:
Kobe Bryant: Has shot below 44% 6 times in the playoffs.
Kobe Bryant: Had a playoff run of 22 games averaging 4.1 turnovers a game.
Kobe Bryant: Averaged as many turnovers as assists in 2006-07 playoffs. :banghead:
lol 5 game run
and the only game they won was because Kobe dropped 45 points
lol 5 game run
and the only game they won was because Kobe dropped 45 points
He cherry picked Jordan stats, I can do the same.
OldSchoolBBall
10-29-2011, 06:40 PM
Just keep digging deeper, lol
Seriously. This dude is a ****ing JOKE, and has become the laughingstock of two forums now. He gets owned by actual facts and numbers and then brings up irrelevant objections and distinctions that he didn't make initially. A freaking JOKE of a poster.
eliteballer
10-29-2011, 06:56 PM
1993
Game 1- 27/5/2/4 on 10/27
Game 2- 36/9/1/2 on 12/32
Game 3- 22/11/8/2/2 on 3/18
Game 4- 54/6/2/2/1 on 18/30
Game 5- 29/14/10/2/1 on 11/24
Game 6- 25/9/2/3/2 on 8/24
That's 32.2 PPG on 40%
thank you:pimp:
Dave3
10-29-2011, 07:25 PM
thank you:pimp:
Um, you realize you were wrong right? You said
"shot sub 45% and below 30 ppg"
He didn't do both, just the former. He was proving you wrong genius. And um, isn't 32 on 40% the same as 29 on 41%? (which was a finals MVP for someone..)
Oh, and the defensive rating for those Knicks was 99.7, way lower than 103.8 of the 2010 Celtics....still consider that series bad? Because if you do you have to consider Kobe's 2010 FMVP came on a bad performance...
TheMan
10-29-2011, 07:37 PM
Seriously. This dude is a ****ing JOKE, and has become the laughingstock of two forums now. He gets owned by actual facts and numbers and then brings up irrelevant objections and distinctions that he didn't make initially. A freaking JOKE of a poster.
But but but, Kobe is better than MJ!Forget stats!Kobe>>>MJ, it's not even close!
:facepalm
Yao Ming's Foot
10-29-2011, 08:00 PM
Um, you realize you were wrong right? You said
"shot sub 45% and below 30 ppg"
He didn't do both, just the former. He was proving you wrong genius. And um, isn't 32 on 40% the same as 29 on 41%? (which was a finals MVP for someone..)
Oh, and the defensive rating for those Knicks was 99.7, way lower than 103.8 of the 2010 Celtics....still consider that series bad? Because if you do you have to consider Kobe's 2010 FMVP came on a bad performance...
99.7 wow :bowdown:
So basically the exact same defensive ratings as the 02 Spurs, the 03 Spurs and 04 Timberwolves and higher than the 01 Kings, the 02 Nets, the 04 Rockets, the 00 Suns, the 08 Celtics, the 01 76ers, the 01 Spurs, the 04 Pistons, the 99 Spurs and the 04 Spurs.
:facepalm
eliteballer
10-29-2011, 08:04 PM
LOL....Kobe's knee was so bad he could barely jump in the 10 Finals against a team that could play zone.
I didnt even mention the 98 ECF where MJ missed a gamewinner in game 4 or tripped to lose the game in game 6(getting outplayed by travis best).
Or the 95 Magic series. or him playing like crap at the end of games to lose them in the 92 and 93 Finals.....
yall wanna act like dude never missed a shot.
Dave3
10-29-2011, 08:10 PM
99.7 wow :bowdown:
So basically the exact same defensive ratings as the 02 Spurs, the 03 Spurs and 04 Timberwolves and higher than the 01 Kings, the 02 Nets, the 04 Rockets, the 00 Suns, the 08 Celtics, the 01 76ers, the 01 Spurs, the 04 Pistons, the 99 Spurs and the 04 Spurs.
:facepalm
I was making a specific comparison because the stats were close (32 on 40 vs 29 on 41). He's saying one was bad but turns around and praises the other about being a Finals MVP performance. I'm trying to show the hypocrisy in the statements, not that Kobe has played against good defenses as well.
Way to be off topic though...and throw in a :facepalm as if you're addressing anything. No one's denied Kobe's played against good defenses...
I was making a specific comparison because the stats were close (32 on 40 vs 29 on 41). He's saying one was bad but turns around and praises the other about being a Finals MVP performance. I'm trying to show the hypocrisy in the statements, not that Kobe has played against good defenses as well.
Way to be off topic though...and throw in a :facepalm as if you're addressing anything. No one's denied Kobe's played against good defenses...
B-b-b-b-b-bu-bu-bu-but Jordan played in a weaker era!!!! HURR DURR KOBEEEEEE!!!!
eliteballer
10-29-2011, 08:15 PM
rr why dont you go out and get a girl instead of making useless posts:lol
Dave3
10-29-2011, 08:17 PM
LOL....Kobe's knee was so bad he could barely jump in the 10 Finals against a team that could play zone.
His knee was bad against OKC. He was on the same knee that he had in the WCF when everyone was praising how having his knee drained put him in this amazing mode. Magically it comes back because he's playing a better defense? Sounds slightly coincidental.
I didnt even mention the 98 ECF where MJ missed a gamewinner in game 4 or tripped to lose the game in game 6(getting outplayed by travis best).
Or the 95 Magic series. or him playing like crap at the end of games to lose them in the 92 and 93 Finals.....
Saying "I didn't even mention ___" means you mentioned other things to begin with, which as this thread has shown, you haven't.
yall wanna act like dude never missed a shot.
Continue saying "you guys act like ____" without a single quote or any evidence. No one has ever said "MJ never missed a shot" but you keep saying "you guys say that" as if it's true. Man up and make arguments against what people actually say instead of what you wish they said.
OldSchoolBBall
10-29-2011, 08:20 PM
LOL....Kobe's knee was so bad he could barely jump in the 10 Finals against a team that could play zone.
I didnt even mention the 98 ECF where MJ missed a gamewinner in game 4 or tripped to lose the game in game 6(getting outplayed by travis best).
Or the 95 Magic series. or him playing like crap at the end of games to lose them in the 92 and 93 Finals.....
yall wanna act like dude never missed a shot.
More attempts at slinging enough shit and hoping some of it sticks. :oldlol: Dude gets entirely discredited on his OP and then starts going off on irrelevant tangents. It's sad to watch. :oldlol:
You mean the '98 ECF where he averaged 32/6/4/47% FG and had a greater defensive impact than Kobe's had in any playoff series since 2004? That's a bad series? Kobe's entire playoff career save for 4-6 series is bad by that standard, then.
TheMan
10-29-2011, 10:02 PM
More attempts at slinging enough shit and hoping some of it sticks. :oldlol: Dude gets entirely discredited on his OP and then starts going off on irrelevant tangents. It's sad to watch. :oldlol:
You mean the '98 ECF where he averaged 32/6/4/47% FG and had a greater defensive impact than Kobe's had in any playoff series since 2004? That's a bad series? Kobe's entire playoff career save for 4-6 series is bad by that standard, then.
It's these doofuses so up Kobe's ass that makes us dislike Kobe even more than what KB himself has ever done.
Asukal
10-30-2011, 04:56 AM
rr why dont you go out and get a girl instead of making useless posts:lol
Make yourself useful and stop making Kobe look bad. :cheers:
Da_Realist
10-30-2011, 08:51 AM
It's ironic. For every blemish these dudes find on Jordan's record, they run across nine spectacular things that sets him apart. Nobody on this board knows better than eliteballer how much better Jordan is than Kobe. Dude knows more about Jordan's career than half the Jordan fans on this board :oldlol:
nayte
10-30-2011, 09:21 AM
Well i have never seen an agenda driven thread backfire so much..ha
And it piesses me off to no end.
I like Kobe and I like Jordan.To me, it's plain to see who has had the better career.Don't mean I don't like Kobes game but silly fanboys try to ruin it.Why can't they just be happy and accept Kobe is a great player and had a great career and be happy with that??
Seriously don't get it..
OldSchoolBBall
10-30-2011, 05:12 PM
Because ownage this bad deserves to be posted again:
85: Bucks
87: Celtics
88: Pistons
89: Pistons
90: Pistons
92: Knicks
96: Magic, Sonics
97: Hawks, Heat
Wow, yet ANOTHER agenda thread from the biggest Kobe groupie on the forum. :oldlol:
1985 Bucks: 29 pts/6 reb/9 ast/3 stl/1 blk/44% FG as a rookie while being guarded by the DPOY and another defensive first teamer is bad? Please child... :oldlol:
1987 Celtics: 36 pts/7 reb/6 ast/2 stl/2+ blk/43% FG/53% TS is bad? Err, no - try again. On top of the fact that he was playing one of the GOAT teams, he had ZERO help (his "second option" averaged 20 ppg/38% FG/49% TS - that's not gonna get it done against an offensive powerhouse like those Celtics). He was again guarded by a defensive first teamer and the Celtcs focused on him because he had zero help. His FG% was poor by his standards, but his raw numbers have been matched by your loverboy Kobe a grand total of once or twice in his career in any playoff series (Kobe has also shot 43% or worse in a few different postseasons in their entirety - so it's humorous when a stan like eliteballer harps on MJ's FG% here, which is the only part of his series that was sub-par).
1988 Pistons: 27 pts/9 reb/5 ast/2 stl/1 blk//49% FG while guarded by TWO soon-to-be defensive first teamers and having an entire team defense designed around you ("The Jordan Rules") when you have ZERO help is bad? No.
1989 Pistons: 30 pts/6 reb/7 ast/2 stl/1 blk/46% FG while guarded by TWO defensive first teamers and having an entire team defense designed around you ("The Jordan Rules") when you have ZERO help is bad? No.
1990 Pistons: 32+ pts/7 reb/6+ ast/2 stl/1 blk/47% FG while guarded by TWO defensive first teamers and having an entire team defense designed around you ("The Jordan Rules") when you have far less talent than your opponent is bad? No.
1992 Knicks: 31+ pts/6 reb/4+ ast/1+ stl/1 blk/48% FG while being guarded by a defensive second team member and a bruising team defense is bad? No. Try again.
1996 Magic: 30 pts/6 reb/5 ast/2+ stl/1 blk/52% FG is bad? Give me a break.
1997 Hawks: 27 pts/10+ reb/5+ ast/2+ stl/1.4 blk/45% FG is bad? :oldlol:
The ONLY poor series (by Jordan's standards) you listed are the 1996 Sonics and 1997 Heat series, and even there he was BY FAR the best offensive player on his team, being more efficient than his 2nd through 4th options despite seeing far more defensive pressure and putting up far greater ppg volume.
Seriously eliteballer - you've been exposed as a fraud and a joke so many times I'm losing count. You should just end yourself at this point.
What's funny is that if Kobe puit up HALF of the series mentioned above, Kobe fans would be creaming their pants ('85 Bucks, '87 Celts, '90 Pistons, '96 Magic, '92 Knicks), but somehow these are "bad" series when it's Jordan. :oldlol:
LMAO @ this troll eliteballer. :oldlol:
eliteballer
10-30-2011, 05:39 PM
Yeah, shooting in the 40's in the 80's is great:lol
Added a couple series LOCO, check em out:D
Dave3
10-30-2011, 05:43 PM
Yeah, shooting in the 40's in the 80's is great:lol
Added a couple series LOCO, check em out:D
Why would anyone ever continue to bother with you? You named series that include 36 ppg, 29 ppg as a rookie, and looking at the post above, series of 27 ppg on 52% FG%....you're clearly a delusional person. Why would anyone continue to bother with you when you can't back up any of your statements?
eliteballer
10-30-2011, 05:44 PM
:lol @LOCO leaving out turnovers
OldSchoolBBall
10-30-2011, 06:17 PM
:lol @LOCO leaving out turnovers
Jordan craps on Kobe in terms of TO's and TOV%, so I'm not sure why you think it matters. We don't have TO data for individual MJ playoff series pre-1991 save for '85-'87 since those postseasons were only one series long, but in terms of regular and postseason TO/gm and TOV%, Kobe falls well short of Jordan there too (as everywhere else). Deal with it.
Dave3
10-30-2011, 06:26 PM
:lol @LOCO leaving out turnovers
O man, didn't see that:lol
30 ppg and 50% FG%?? Doesn't matter!!! He had 4 TO/game (didn't even check, just guessing)
That completely changed my mind!!!!!:facepalm
You're seriously terrible at defending your opinions.
Dave3
10-30-2011, 06:28 PM
Jordan craps on Kobe in terms of TO's and TOV%, so I'm not sure why you think it matters. We don't have TO data for individual MJ playoff series pre-1991 save for '85-'87 since those postseasons were only one series long, but in terms of regular and postseason TO/gm and TOV%, Kobe falls well short of Jordan there too (as everywhere else). Deal with it.
Don't know why we bother. A series against a great defensive team is all of a sudden "bad" because the TO's are a little high despite having 30 ppg on 52% FG%?? How retarded is that logic?
eliteballer
06-11-2012, 08:58 PM
Enough of this crap.
The Bad Boys allowed more PPG than Don Nelsons Mavs.
Jordan shoot poor to average when he faced good defensive teams esp after his 1st retirement when defenses got better, so OP.
Nevaeh
06-11-2012, 10:10 PM
Enough of this crap.
The Bad Boys allowed more PPG than Don Nelsons Mavs.
Jordan shoot poor to average when he faced good defensive teams esp after his 1st retirement when defenses got better, so OP.
And Kobe got swept as a defending Champion, something not even Scottie Pippen allowed to happen.
:rolleyes:
Why don't you follow the rest of the "Kobe" fans and start rooting for Lebron or Durant now. Your boy's a great player, but that's where it ends.
Heavincent
06-11-2012, 10:13 PM
Your boy's a great player
That must have been difficult for you to say.
I dont get it. He didn't shoot poorly against half those teams.
Nevaeh
06-11-2012, 10:16 PM
That must have been difficult for you to say.
Unlike you guys, I don't have a problem with telling the truth. I also don't cut off or "forget" about entire chunks of MJ's career to make him look better either.
:oldlol:
Heavincent
06-11-2012, 10:19 PM
Unlike you guys, I don't have a problem with telling the truth. I also don't cut off or "forget" about entire chunks of MJ's career to make him look better either.
:oldlol:
Don't generalize us Kobe fans. Kobe's my favorite player, but I've got no problem admitting that Jordan was definitely better. I've never taken a shot at Jordan or tried to discredit him.
KingBeasley08
06-11-2012, 10:35 PM
wow thread backfire. props to oldschoolball :applause:
juju151111
06-11-2012, 10:45 PM
This thread didn't go the OP way lol.
Because 6 rings.
/thread.
Yao Ming's Foot
06-12-2012, 12:40 AM
Between the two, 20 out of the best 22 defenses faced in the playoffs were Kobe opponents..
04 Spurs 94.1
99 Spurs 95.0
04 Pistons 95.4
01 Spurs 98.0
01 76ers 98.9
08 Celtics 98.9
00 Suns 99.0
04 Rockets 99.0
02 Nets 99.5
01 Kings 99.6
04 Twolves 99.7
02 Spurs 99.7
03 Spurs 99.7
93 Knicks 99.7
97 Heat 100.6
00 Blazers 100.8
02 Kings 101.1
98 Pacers 101.6
08 Spurs 101.8
01 Blazers 101.8
09 Magic 101.9
00 Kings 102.1
MJ vs 97 Heat
Game 1 15 for 31
Game 2 4 for 15
Game 3 14 for 25
Game 4 9 for 35
Game 5 11 for 31
MJ vs 93 Knicks
Game 1 10 for 27
Game 2 12 for 32
Game 3 3 for 18
Game 4 18 for 30
Game 5 11 for 24
Game 6 8 for 24
hmmmmmmmmmmm
:applause:
Game 3 -- not only did Jordan almost have a triple double (22, 8, 11, 2, 2) but the Bulls led by 11 points after the 1st Quarter, 19 points after the 2nd Quarter and 23 points after the 3rd Quarter. When did the Bulls need more from him this game? :confusedshrug:
Game 6 -- shot poorly, but still had 9 assists. I'd say this was a sub par game for him but it definitely wasn't a bad series in general.
Game 1 -- bad game
Game 2 -- shot poorly but almost led the team to a comeback win when Scottie was ejected
Game 3 -- see above
Game 4 -- 54 points
Game 5 -- Triple Double, controlled the game from start to finish. Had 11 or 12 assists going into the 4th Quarter
Game 6 -- see above
Not a bad series at all. One of my favorites, actually.
:EDIT Games 4 and 5 were PANTHEON type games. They should count extra. :pimp: Any series that have 2 games like Games 4 and 5 should never count as a "bad series"
Yes, that's the only thing that matters to some of you.
I've said the same thing. And speaking of those 2 games, its funny that Kobe fans bring up this series. Jordan had a 54 point game and a triple-double game. Do people know how many 54+ point games and triple-double games Kobe has had in the playoffs? 0 and 0 :oldlol: He's never even had that triple double. If Kobe had this series, his fans would call it one of his greatest ever. They already rate the 2010 Finals rather highly. Imagine if he had these two games in their as well? They might call it one of the best ever.
Horatio33
06-12-2012, 10:42 AM
KobeStans,
You have to keep bringing up things about someone who retired ten nine years ago (at 40 years old) to make Kobe look better, it means one thing.
KOBE ISN'T AS GOOD AS YOU THINK!
Kobe is a great player. He just isn't in the same stratosphere as Jordan.
boojitede
06-12-2012, 11:01 AM
Between the two, 20 out of the best 22 defenses faced in the playoffs were Kobe opponents..
04 Spurs 94.1
99 Spurs 95.0
04 Pistons 95.4
01 Spurs 98.0
01 76ers 98.9
08 Celtics 98.9
00 Suns 99.0
04 Rockets 99.0
02 Nets 99.5
01 Kings 99.6
04 Twolves 99.7
02 Spurs 99.7
03 Spurs 99.7
93 Knicks 99.7
97 Heat 100.6
00 Blazers 100.8
02 Kings 101.1
98 Pacers 101.6
08 Spurs 101.8
01 Blazers 101.8
09 Magic 101.9
00 Kings 102.1
MJ vs 97 Heat
Game 1 15 for 31
Game 2 4 for 15
Game 3 14 for 25
Game 4 9 for 35
Game 5 11 for 31
MJ vs 93 Knicks
Game 1 10 for 27
Game 2 12 for 32
Game 3 3 for 18
Game 4 18 for 30
Game 5 11 for 24
Game 6 8 for 24
hmmmmmmmmmmm
i trust no defensive list with the ealry 00 kings on it :lol
f0und
06-12-2012, 11:21 AM
jordan has 1 bad series out of every 10.
kobe has 1 good series out of every 10.
why do these kobe kids continue to fight a losing battle?
Da_Realist
06-12-2012, 01:47 PM
I've said the same thing. And speaking of those 2 games, its funny that Kobe fans bring up this series. Jordan had a 54 point game and a triple-double game. Do people know how many 54+ point games and triple-double games Kobe has had in the playoffs? 0 and 0 :oldlol: He's never even had that triple double. If Kobe had this series, his fans would call it one of his greatest ever. They already rate the 2010 Finals rather highly. Imagine if he had these two games in their as well? They might call it one of the best ever.
The thing is... even in MJ's worst playoff series, there was always a game or two where he put his foot in it. Games 4 and 5 vs the Knicks in 93 were epic. I think he had a 14/25 game against the Heat in 1997 and maybe even another pretty good game. He had epic games against the Pistons in every year except maybe 1988. And had had 3 pretty good games against the Sonics -- but the other three where godawful so it brought his overall percentages down. Well game 2 was bad, but the other 2 games were godawful.
CelticBaller
06-12-2012, 02:20 PM
damn op :oldlol:
Glide2keva
06-12-2012, 06:53 PM
The ownage is deafening. :lol
Soundwave
06-12-2012, 06:57 PM
Memo to the OP: Either watch those series' or sit your ass down and watch some age appropriate programming for yourself like Spongebob Squarepants, because I'm guess you're some dumb kid.
97 bulls
06-12-2012, 07:13 PM
Basketball is a game of makes and misses. Think back to that 3/17 game John Starks had in 94. I dont think that anyome believes that if he were to get those same shots in another game, he still ends up going 3/17. It was just a bad game. For whatever reason, Jordan shot a bad percentage statistically. But he still played great overall.
IGotACoolStory
06-12-2012, 07:18 PM
I'm surprised eliteballer can type properly; considering he has Kobe's dick in his mouth, blocking the keyboard.
Da_Realist
06-12-2012, 07:30 PM
OP got ethered
damn op :oldlol:
The ownage is deafening. :lol
Memo to the OP: Either watch those series' or sit your ass down and watch some age appropriate programming for yourself like Spongebob Squarepants, because I'm guess you're some dumb kid.
I'm surprised eliteballer can type properly; considering he has Kobe's dick in his mouth, blocking the keyboard.
And guess who bumped this thread yesterday :oldlol:
eliteballer
06-12-2012, 07:43 PM
Only ones saying I got owned are the usual jordan groupies.
Facts: Jordan shoot poorly.
You cant deny the facts............
KG215
06-12-2012, 07:48 PM
Only ones saying I got owned are the usual jordan groupies.
Facts: Jordan shoot poorly.
You cant deny the facts............
Ok, if those are the facts we're going to use....
Facts: Kobe shot poorly a lot more often than Michael Jordan in the playoffs.
Well there was no internet at every home back then with video sites to record each failure so everybody knows, no huge media versatility to make it a scrutiny either compared to today, no huge international NBA coverage as today, no Skip Bayless and no bball forums to bash the players for it either... :D
Da_Realist
06-12-2012, 08:07 PM
Well there was no internet at every home back then with video sites to record each failure so everybody knows, no huge media versatility to make it a scrutiny either compared to today, no huge international NBA coverage as today, no Skip Bayless and no bball forums to bash the players for it either... :D
...on the other hand, can you imagine if all that existed back then so we didn't have to read some 15 year old's "analysis" of past greats like Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain based on some incomplete numbers mined from a website and video coverage of 5 or 6 games?
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