Hendrix/Clapton/Santana [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

Go Getter

10-29-2011, 08:48 AM

Hendrix
Clapton

Santana is somewhere down here.

I rank Clapton very high because, from what I've read and watched, Hendrix was greatly inspired by Clapton (and Dylan). I'd put my head out there and say, if it weren't for Clapton or Dylan, Hendrix may not have been has great as he was as an overall musician.

Why do you rank Santana so much lower than the other 2 though? Are there any guitarists you put in the "upper echelon" with Hendrix and Clapton?

Forgive me, I just got into Rock a little while ago.

pete's montreux

10-29-2011, 09:18 AM

All three of them aren't really technical wizards. These three guys work off emotion more than anyone I've ever heard.

I really doubt many posters here have given Carlos Santana a good listening to other than the "hits". I've delved very deep into his catalog and can say that he's ALL about creating the mood and his playing is very melodic. It was never about him either. He constantly takes a back seat for songs if they needed it.

The best example of what I think Santana was all about is the album Caravanserai. It was the last album to feature Neal Schon and it was there most mature musically IMO. They developed their sound over four albums and Caravanserai was the product of that. It is far and away his best work he ever did. I highly recommend it.

Here's a good example from the album (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdmevPWZTRg). What a classic song. So relaxing and it conjures up summer images. Also probably a great song to get high to.

step_back

10-29-2011, 09:21 AM

Hendrix - died because God needed guitar lessons

Clapton

Santana

Enjoy all their music.:applause:

johndeeregreen

10-29-2011, 10:45 AM

Hendrix

Clapton

Santana

johndeeregreen

10-29-2011, 10:53 AM

DeuceWallaces

10-29-2011, 10:56 AM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/Santana3.jpg

Go Getter

10-29-2011, 12:23 PM

Hendrix

Clapton

Santana

So, same question I asked Kebab Stall...are there any other guitarists you put up there with Hendrix and (then) Clapton?

Kebab Stall

10-29-2011, 12:32 PM

I wouldn't put anyone up there with Hendrix.

No one plays(ed) with more natural raw talent and emotion than Hendrix (IMO). Technically, he wasn't that great and because of that I doubt Hendrix could have taught anyone how to play a guitar. He basically just closed his eyes and hit the spot everytime.

Sort of like in the NBA. You'll never see guys like Jordan, Kobe or Lebron ever coaching, because it just came natural to them.

Not to mention the massive influence Hendrix had and still does have on guitar players. Even now, little kids learning to play, will look up to Hendrix and want to be like him or play like him.

L.Kizzle

10-29-2011, 01:39 PM

Hendrix

the other two

Jesse Johnson

Patrick Chewing

10-29-2011, 07:12 PM

Just the way you laid them out

Hendrix
Clapton
Santana

Hendrix has so much rare stuff out there it's scary. I truly believe he was blessed by being predominantly left-handed. There's uniqueness in his sound that no other guitarist could match.

ShaqAttack3234

10-29-2011, 07:20 PM

DFish

10-29-2011, 07:20 PM

Your thread title already did.

DFish

10-29-2011, 07:24 PM

I remember an interview with Clapton where he said that, after watching Hendrix play, Clapton supposedly went home and cried because he knew he could never be that good.

But both were insanely talented.

Abd El-Krim

10-29-2011, 07:37 PM

All three of them aren't really technical wizards. These three guys work off emotion more than anyone I've ever heard.

Really?

Clapton is the definitive technical guitarist of the 60s to me. He perfected about 100 blues licks, and made a career out of stringing them together in different order. I don't hear a lot of emotion in his playing. Certainly not like Hendrix, who probably didn't know what a lick was. Dude would play a note that sounded bad and just bend until it sounded better.

JMT

10-29-2011, 07:44 PM

I don't think that guitarists should really be ranked. Music is art, not a sport. And there's no real way to rank musicians anyway. Too many things to consider, depends whether you're more impressed by technical skills, creativity, influence or quality of the music(this one being completely subjective).

Have played the guitar for going on 40 years, professionally for half that time. I have to agree. Ranking guitarists is like ranking paintings or photgraphs.

OP, since you're new to rock, there are many who would argue, with merit, that Jeff Beck is the greatest living guitarist, rock or otherwise. Do yourself a favor and listen to him as you begin your journey through the genre.

johndeeregreen

10-29-2011, 07:46 PM

Have played the guitar for going on 40 years, professionally for half that time. I have to agree. Ranking guitarists is like ranking paintings or photgraphs.
I agree also. Which is why I ranked them in order of importance/influence on the electric guitar world instead. Because those topics aren't subjective; they can be measured.

SuperPippen

10-29-2011, 08:20 PM

I agree with those who state that it is difficult to make a definitive ranking or guitarists, or of any instrumentalists in general.

However, I do have my own list of personal favorites, as well as my favorite performances from them:

Jimi Hendrix - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEvRbw8uM60

Stevie Ray Vaughan - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5tS5V9DIG0

Prince - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=madax7-lMvM

Eric Clapton - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejPi8D8LFnI

Jimmy Page - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q7Vr3yQYWQ

Jeff Beck - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRxTHChKy4M

John Petrucci - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my1g5awBEF0

johndeeregreen

10-29-2011, 08:23 PM

Stevie Ray Vaughan - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5tS5V9DIG0

This one is just ridiculous. It's not my favorite SRV performance but it's definitely the most stark and mind-blowing.

pete's montreux

10-29-2011, 08:39 PM

Really?

Clapton is the definitive technical guitarist of the 60s to me. He perfected about 100 blues licks, and made a career out of stringing them together in different order. I don't hear a lot of emotion in his playing. Certainly not like Hendrix, who probably didn't know what a lick was. Dude would play a note that sounded bad and just bend until it sounded better.

Stopped there.

pete's montreux

10-29-2011, 08:40 PM

johndeeregreen

10-29-2011, 08:50 PM

You've got to be SHITTING me.
http://i44.tinypic.com/2v2a42b.jpg

SuperPippen

10-29-2011, 08:51 PM

You've got to be SHITTING me.

I shit you not.

This is my favorite Page performance, followed closely by "Since I've Been Loving You."

You seem to disagree. That's fine. Just don't expect everyone to always agree with you.

pete's montreux

10-29-2011, 08:52 PM

I shit you not.

This is my favorite Page performance, followed closely by "Since I've Been Loving You."

You seem to disagree. That's fine. Just don't expect everyone to always agree with you.

Stairway is by far their worst song. Worse than Hot Dog. Dig deeper, you're cutting yourself short.

johndeeregreen

10-29-2011, 08:54 PM

The reason it's Page's best performance is because it's the only song they play simple enough for him to hit 80% of the notes.

johndeeregreen

10-29-2011, 08:57 PM

And the video is evidence that just because he may actually strike them, they needn't be in time or sound good in succession, or anything.

SuperPippen

10-29-2011, 08:59 PM

Stairway is by far their worst song. Worse than Hot Dog. Dig deeper, you're cutting yourself short.

Not saying it's my favorite song. That would be a tie between "The Ocean" and "Dazed and Confused." But, I do like it, and it certainly isn't "by far their worst song." It wouldn't be arguably the most famous classic rock song of all time if that were the case.

And it may not be too complex of a song, but the guitar parts have always been memorable to me, especially on The Song Remains The Same.

pete's montreux

10-29-2011, 09:02 PM

Not saying it's my favorite song. That would be a tie between "The Ocean" and "Dazed and Confused." But, I do like it, and it certainly isn't "by far their worst song." It wouldn't be arguably the most famous classic rock song of all time if that were the case.

And it may not be too complex of a song, but the guitar parts have always been memorable to me, especially on The Song Remains The Same.

You'll dig deeper and in a few years you'll be saying the same thing I am now. The song is f*cking atrocious. No wonder Plant calls it a piece of shit and stopped performing it in 1994. It's terrible.

SuperPippen

10-29-2011, 09:09 PM

You'll dig deeper and in a few years you'll be saying the same thing I am now. The song is f*cking atrocious. No wonder Plant calls it a piece of shit and stopped performing it in 1994. It's terrible.

I completely disagree. I won't be "digging deeper" just because I agree with you. It's a good song. The definition of an epic rock song. There are better songs out there, but Stairway is damn good.

Maybe you've just gotten tired of it. Or maybe you hate because it's popular.

pete's montreux

10-29-2011, 09:51 PM

It's a bad song. There's no other reason for me not liking it.

johndeeregreen

10-30-2011, 12:25 AM

It's a bad song. There's no other reason for me not liking it.
Yep. Bad song by an all-time bad band.

TheMan

10-30-2011, 02:19 AM

L.Kizzle

10-30-2011, 02:22 AM

Let's not forget that playing guitar is so much more than being able to play cool riffs, if the song sucks and you have an awesome lead, the song still sucks.

As great as guitarists Hendrix, Clapton or Santana are, give my brilliant songwriting over brilliant guitar leads, with that in mind...

Lennon/McCartney>Waters/Gilmour>>>>>>Hendrix/Clapton/Santana
That awesome lead is also part of the song. A song with terrible lyrics and great musicianship will get play over a song with terrible music and great lyric

andgar923

10-30-2011, 02:29 AM

Dizzle-2k7

10-30-2011, 02:33 AM

santana getting mad disrespect...

whens the last time clapton had a hit? santana had a few #1s not too long ago..

Go Getter

10-30-2011, 02:43 AM

Let's not forget that playing guitar is so much more than being able to play cool riffs, if the song sucks and you have an awesome lead, the song still sucks.

As great as guitarists Hendrix, Clapton or Santana are, give my brilliant songwriting over brilliant guitar leads, with that in mind...

Lennon/McCartney>Waters/Gilmour>>>>>>Hendrix/Clapton/Santana
I made a thread awhile back proclaiming Lennon as my favorite for best songwriter but here we are only discussing guitar skills.

johndeeregreen

10-30-2011, 02:45 AM

whens the last time clapton had a hit? santana had a few #1s not too long ago..
Because we all know having #1 hits is a direct measure of a guitarist's greatness.:oldlol:

johndeeregreen

10-30-2011, 02:49 AM

BTW Pete, that is a GREAT tune you posted. Thank you for sharing.

Go Getter

10-30-2011, 02:56 AM

Have played the guitar for going on 40 years, professionally for half that time. I have to agree. Ranking guitarists is like ranking paintings or photgraphs.

OP, since you're new to rock, there are many who would argue, with merit, that Jeff Beck is the greatest living guitarist, rock or otherwise. Do yourself a favor and listen to him as you begin your journey through the genre.
A close friend of mine recommends Beck as well. Can you suggest an LP to start with?

TheMan

10-30-2011, 02:56 AM

I made a thread awhile back proclaiming Lennon as my favorite for best songwriter but here we are only discussing guitar skills.
Well, to tell you the truth, all three of the guitarists you named are awesome but my personal pick would be Eddie Van Halen, listen to that solo and Mean Streets from Fair Warning.Take a hit from a bong and listen to it on Youtube and get back to me.

triangleoffense

10-30-2011, 03:10 AM

Go Getter

10-30-2011, 03:11 AM

Well, to tell you the truth, all three of the guitarists you named are awesome but my personal pick would be Eddie Van Halen, listen to that solo and Mean Streets from Fair Warning.Take a hit from a bong and listen to it on Youtube and get back to me.

I'll take you up on that when I g-off work and get back to you...thanks.

Go Getter

10-30-2011, 03:13 AM

Now bear with me, I know very little about guitars/rock/etc, but what about the guitarist from Led Zepplin. Idk what it is about their music but their style is cool with me....some guitar sounds are headache inducing and others are groove inducing and LZ falls in the latter category.

Ben Jordan

10-30-2011, 03:15 AM

BTW Pete, that is a GREAT tune you posted. Thank you for sharing.
agreed. what a track

DeuceWallaces

10-30-2011, 03:36 AM

A close friend of mine recommends Beck as well. Can you suggest an LP to start with?

Blow By Blow is his quintessential solo album followed by Wired. Personally, I prefer Truth and Beck O La from Jeff Beck Group fronted by Rod Stewart.

LJJ

10-30-2011, 05:46 AM

I don't understand why artists who die prematurely always get put on a pedestal. Clapton has a far far superior body of work to draw from not to mention exponentially more hit singles, albums, awards and just overall brilliant pieces of music that he has accomplished in his lifetime. Santana too arguably. Not taking anything away from Hendrix but there's a reason that Clapton is God :).

Nonsense.

Clapton's body of work can't match Hendrix's. The only record of his that can legitimately stack up to EXP/ABAL/EL/BOG is Derek and the Dominoes.

FatComputerNerd

10-30-2011, 07:16 AM

Buckethead > all

Kebab Stall

10-30-2011, 08:24 AM

I don't understand why artists who die prematurely always get put on a pedestal. Clapton has a far far superior body of work to draw from not to mention exponentially more hit singles, albums, awards and just overall brilliant pieces of music that he has accomplished in his lifetime. Santana too arguably. Not taking anything away from Hendrix but there's a reason that Clapton is God :).
Well this is just ridiculous.

Hendrix released 3 albums with the Jimi Hendrix Experience, but just from looking through my iTunes, I have 15 albums under Jimi Hendrix. The guy has so much hidden music and it's still being released.

Don't be fooled, because he only has 3 official albums. The man made a lot of music.

JMT

10-30-2011, 06:51 PM

The reason it's Page's best performance is because it's the only song they play simple enough for him to hit 80% of the notes.

That's where you lose all credibility.

JMT

10-30-2011, 06:55 PM

A close friend of mine recommends Beck as well. Can you suggest an LP to start with?

You can't go wrong with:

Truth

Blow by Blow

Wired

Live w/the Jan Hammer Group

or others mentioned in this thread

Enjoy!

johndeeregreen

10-30-2011, 07:11 PM

That's where you lose all credibility.
No, I don't.

Firstly, I say these things just to rattle Pete. Didn't work this time, but it was worth a shot. I honestly don't care for Zeppelin, but I won't deny their talent, and the comment you quoted was a joke.

That said, though, there is really no doubt that Page is a sloppy guitarist. Which isn't a huge indictment because historically he shouldn't be viewed as a legendary guitar player as much as a legendary songwriter/riffmaster, and I don't think that fact necessarily detracts from how he's perceived at all. Just re-watch that Stairway video. Honestly that guitar solo is painful to listen to. He's half a beat ahead/behind the song in many places, the runs are basically standalone licks jammed together. Nothing at all like the original solo, which flowed beautifully. It's really a very poor effort by a guitarist who should be and is more well-known for his creativity than his note-striking ability, which quite honestly is pretty mediocre for someone considered to be one of the all-time greats.

DeuceWallaces

10-30-2011, 07:27 PM

Definitely not in JDG's fan club but there's no doubt he's sloppy as **** and misses stuff constantly live. It's damn near impossible to listen to How the West Was Won or most of all his live shit.

Nick Young

10-31-2011, 12:00 AM

Santana is just as good as Hendrix, he just didn't come up with as many poppy catchy riffs as Hendrix, also isn't marketed as well and doesnt have all the well known legends about him like Hendrix does. Santana is better at the epic 7 minute solos though and phrases better.

just depends what you want. Never heard enough of Clapton to accurately comment on this guy.

Dizzle-2k7

10-31-2011, 12:07 AM

The reason I rank Santana so much lower is mainly because Hendrix and Clapton had way more influence on the way electric guitar is played as an instrument. Not that Santana isn't great, but for that reason I don't feel he belongs in the same discussion.

Influence?

Guess you've never heard alot of Salsa music, or Los Lonely Boys, or Los Lobos.. or heck EVERY BAND on EVERY SOUNDTRACK by Tarantino/Rodriguez/etc. Santana has as much influence, IF NOT MORE , then any guitarist because the MEXICAN/AMERICAN population is HUUUUGE. Bet you didnt even consider that, because your mind is still stuck in the 1800s.

:facepalm

Its time to stop posting, Johnny.

DFish

10-31-2011, 12:12 AM

Influence?

Guess you've never heard of Los Lonely Boys, or Los Lobos.. or heck EVERY BAND on EVERY SOUNDTRACK by Tarantino/Rodriguez/etc. Santana has as much influence, IF NOT MORE , then any guitarist because the MEXICAN/AMERICAN population is HUUUUGE.

:facepalm

Santana is a great guitarist, but to say that he's had as much of an influence on modern guitar playing as Hendrix and Clapton is not accurate. I don't care how fast Mexicans reproduce.

LedBalls

10-31-2011, 12:13 AM

Hendrix

Clapton

Santana

Stairway is by far their worst song. Worse than Hot Dog. Dig deeper, you're cutting yourself short.

Hot Dog is a good song. :confusedshrug:
What's wrong with Stairway to Heaven?

Dizzle-2k7

10-31-2011, 12:13 AM

DFish

10-31-2011, 12:15 AM

The racist comment really helps your argument.

:rolleyes:

Racist? Is "Mexican" no longer PC?

You brought up the Mexican/American population. I'm saying that their growth doesn't change Hendrix and Clapton's influence.

Nick Young

10-31-2011, 12:18 AM

Santana is a great guitarist, but to say that he's had as much of an influence on modern guitar playing as Hendrix and Clapton is not accurate. I don't care how fast Mexicans reproduce.
santana is just as influential in latin rock and jazz and latin music in general, stuff they listen to in south and central america, it's just no one on this forum listens to that kind of music so they unfairly rank santana so low and outclassed by the other two.

Nick Young

10-31-2011, 12:21 AM

DFish

10-31-2011, 12:30 AM

Santana is just as good as Hendrix

If you asked Carlos himself, he would probably tell you that Jimi Hendrix was far more technically gifted with the guitar than he is. Rolling Stone (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-guitarists-of-all-time-19691231/jimi-hendrix-19691231) agrees, as do numerous other critics. If you find one that ranks Santana as the superior guitarist, I'll be interested to check it out.

yes, mexicans are the only people in the world who listen to santana:facepalm

Yes, I clearly said that. :facepalm Reading comprehension is important.

LedBalls

10-31-2011, 12:38 AM

If you asked Carlos himself, he would probably tell you that Jimi Hendrix was far more technically gifted with the guitar than he is. Rolling Stone (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-guitarists-of-all-time-19691231/jimi-hendrix-19691231) agrees, as do numerous other critics. If you find one that ranks Santana as the superior guitarist, I'll be interested to check it out.

Yes, I clearly said that. :facepalm Reading comprehension is important.

lol Rolling Stone magazine. :roll: :roll:
Worst critics ever.

But yeah, Jimi > Santana.

Dizzle-2k7

10-31-2011, 12:38 AM

santana is just as influential in latin rock and jazz and latin music in general, stuff they listen to in south and central america, it's just no one on this forum listens to that kind of music so they unfairly rank santana so low and outclassed by the other two.

Its sad how sheltered alot of ISH really is. The majority have no sense of culture or history or tradition.

:facepalm

And when they dont understand it, they resort to racism like DFISH *******ass

SuperPippen

10-31-2011, 12:45 AM

lol Rolling Stone magazine. :roll: :roll:
Worst critics ever.

But yeah, Jimi > Santana.

I wouldn't say they're the worst critics ever, and I definitely don't hate on them as much as most people do, but they ranked Kurt ****ing Cobain as the 12th greatest guitarist ever.

That alone is worth an infinite number of :facepalm 's.

**** Kurt Cobain.

DFish

10-31-2011, 12:50 AM

Its sad how sheltered alot of ISH really is. The majority have no sense of culture or history or tradition.

:facepalm

So because I don't believe that Santana is a better guitarist than Jimi Hendrix, I must have no culture? Interesting conclusion you've drawn.

And when they dont understand it, they resort to racism like DFISH *******ass

Right.. Was it because I called them "Mexicans" or because I responded to you bringing up their population? Which is it?

Jailblazers7

10-31-2011, 08:53 AM

Based on personal preference:

Hendrix

Santana
Clapton

HylianNightmare

10-31-2011, 10:01 AM

Hendrix
Santana
Clapton

johndeeregreen

10-31-2011, 11:23 AM

Nick Young

10-31-2011, 12:06 PM

Does anyone more consistently opine on things they know absolutely nothing about than Bruinlove and Dizzle? You guys are ****ing idiots. There's no middle ground about it. We have Dizzle on one side saying Santana is a great guitarist because of his #1 hits and Nick Young on the other saying Hendrix is only better at creating "poppy" riffs (ell oh ****ing ell!) I would take the time to explain the reasons why Hendrix is widely (and rightly) considered the most influential guitarist in electric history, but it would be falling upon deaf ears. You guys are complete embarrassments.
All you know is Western English music, be honest how much do you know about Latin rock and Latin Jazz. Do you even speak Spanish.

Does South America and Central America just not exist in your world?

In terms of English rock music, yes Hendrix is the best. But in terms of just playing guitar, I don't see how he is better than Santana, except for the fact he has poppier riffs and more commercial songwriting.

Dizzle-2k7

10-31-2011, 12:09 PM

JMT

10-31-2011, 12:29 PM

No, I don't.

Firstly, I say these things just to rattle Pete. Didn't work this time, but it was worth a shot. I honestly don't care for Zeppelin, but I won't deny their talent, and the comment you quoted was a joke.

That said, though, there is really no doubt that Page is a sloppy guitarist.

Ridiculous, Page is a fantastic guitarist, and critiquing his skill based on some online video clip is beyond absurd.

Not a Zeppelin or Stairway fan either. But given a few minutes, I can find video online that shows any great musician at their worst. I saw Clapton on his first US solo tour when he was falling down drunk/stoned. An absolutely miserable performance. Thank god for Muddy Waters as the opening act, or it would have been the worst night of a young axe mans life. But it by no menas denigrates Claptons skill level, technical excellence, or impact on the culture of music and guitar.

DeuceWallaces

10-31-2011, 12:36 PM

Santana is Western Rock you dipshit. A guy playing congos in the background doesn't change that.

Dizzle-2k7

10-31-2011, 12:40 PM

Santana is Western Rock you dipshit. A guy playing congos in the background doesn't change that.

:facepalm

Worst post in this thread.

DeuceWallaces

10-31-2011, 12:52 PM

Western pop and rock is defined by it's harmonic progression and modality; all of which Santana mirrors. Slightly changing the instrumentation does not change that.

Dizzle-2k7

10-31-2011, 01:02 PM

Santana is western pop rock now

:oldlol:

Oh man ISH brings the LULZ everytime

johndeeregreen

10-31-2011, 01:13 PM

Ridiculous, Page is a fantastic guitarist, and critiquing his skill based on some online video clip is beyond absurd.
It's far, far from one video. That clip is just a perfect example. As another poster pointed out, pretty much every Page live performance just isn't that good.:confusedshrug: I didn't arbitrarily pick one video to say that Jimmy Page is a sloppy player. It's common knowledge among guitar players that Page isn't a great note striker. He just isn't. And like I said, it's not an indictment, it's just the truth. He isn't revered for his amazing playing because it doesn't exist. He's revered for his creativity/songwriting/riffs.

He's a sloppy player. That's really all there is to it.

johndeeregreen

10-31-2011, 01:16 PM

All you know is Western English music, be honest how much do you know about Latin rock and Latin Jazz. Do you even speak Spanish.

Does South America and Central America just not exist in your world?

In terms of English rock music, yes Hendrix is the best. But in terms of just playing guitar, I don't see how he is better than Santana, except for the fact he has poppier riffs and more commercial songwriting.
What, so Latin rock and jazz has nothing to do with the electric guitar?

Hendrix revolutionized the electric guitar as an instrument for everyone who played it after him, regardless of genre. Bluesmen, shredders, country pickers, every genre is rife with guys who say their biggest influence was Hendrix. The fact that you equate Hendrix with poppy riffs is proof you know absolutely nothing about electric guitar, how it's played, or any history behind it whatsoever. If you like Santana better sure, go ahead, but to act like Hendrix's contributions to guitar players EVERYWHERE is limited to some poppy riffs is ****ing stupid. Which isn't a surprising viewpoint from someone as consistently clueless as yourself.

DFish

10-31-2011, 01:48 PM

Hendrix revolutionized the electric guitar as an instrument for everyone who played it after him, regardless of genre.

That.

You can look at their influence according to genre or region, but the guitar playing is universal. Just like Hendrix's influence.

DeuceWallaces

10-31-2011, 01:48 PM

Santana is western pop rock now

:oldlol:

Oh man ISH brings the LULZ everytime

Santana's harmony and modality is nothing but western with minimal Latin instrumentation.

Dizzle-2k7

10-31-2011, 03:40 PM

Everyone on ISH is a music theorist now

:bowdown: to the Musical Experts in here who think Santana is western rock pop and think Jimi invented the guitar

Kebab Stall

10-31-2011, 03:47 PM

Everyone on ISH is a music theorist now

:bowdown: to the Musical Experts in here who think Santana is western rock pop and think Jimi invented the guitar
You're such a retard it's unbelievable.

lefthook00

10-31-2011, 04:07 PM

pete's montreux

10-31-2011, 04:08 PM

I won't deny that Jimmy Page is a sloppy player, I just think the people who listen to him and say that just don't get what he and Led Zeppelin was all about. Page could without a doubt play perfectly and never miss a note, I've listened to hundreds of hours of bootlegs to know, which none of you have. He didn't want to. He was constantly pushing the envelope, and never played the same note twice. He played dirty, he played with an attitude. He was constantly creating and changing and tweaking on stage. It's what he did.

99% of the riffs you hear after Physical Graffiti was something that he came up with ON THE SPOT during live jams. You can literally go back to late 1972 to mid 1973 and hear every single riff from the album Presence being worked out live during extended solos and jams. He'd strike a note and play with it. Then you'd never hear it again until it was Achilles Last Stand or For Your Life 4-5 years later on an album.

Taking jabs at LZ is fine with me really, I stopped caring what people thought about them a few years ago. Everyone has an opinion, but I can choose which ones to listen to.

pete's montreux

10-31-2011, 04:09 PM

Also, for the people who listened to that link, you really need to listen to Caravanserai. It's an amazing album.

JaskoX1

10-31-2011, 04:19 PM

Who's the guy that said Bill Corgan is the best guitarist, and better then Jack White?

I personally will rank Eddie Van Halen over Santana.

SuperPippen

10-31-2011, 04:26 PM

Everyone on ISH is a music theorist now

:bowdown: to the Musical Experts in here who think Santana is western rock pop and think Jimi invented the guitar

Jimi Hendrix didn't invent the guitar. He's simply the most memorable and influential guitarist who ever lived.

And yes, when talking globally, Santana is a Western musician. Listen to some music from the middle-east or from south-eastern Asia, and try to argue that the structure of Santana's (or pretty much any other artist you can name) sounds anything like that.

SuperPippen

10-31-2011, 04:30 PM

I think SRV was more naturally talented than all of these guys but can't compare to their impact, therefore he is not as high on the all-time list. But talking purely skill, he was a badass mofo, definitely my favorite.

As for the list imo:

Hendrix

Clapton/Santana

or:

Hendrix

Clapton
Santana

I agree. SRV was one of the most technically gifted guitarists ever. I'd probably put him above Hendrix, and certainly above Clapton and Santana, on a list of technical skill. And he combined technical proficiency with soul and emotion, which is what made him so memorable.

lefthook00

10-31-2011, 05:00 PM

I agree. SRV was one of the most technically gifted guitarists ever. I'd probably put him above Hendrix, and certainly above Clapton and Santana, on a list of technical skill. And he combined technical proficiency with soul and emotion, which is what made him so memorable.

It's a shame that he died so young. Here's Stevie blacking out on a 12-string. Jesus. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esHVE53zSms

Norcaliblunt

10-31-2011, 05:29 PM

RidonKs

10-31-2011, 05:37 PM

Santana is Western Rock you dipshit. A guy playing congos in the background doesn't change that.
:oldlol:

too true. i've only ever heard Abraxas, but even only based on that, i've gotta echo the sentiments expressed by a few others in here about Santana's music. if i have to listen to one of the three, i'd probably go with him. Jimi's a close second. Clapton's a close third. hell, they're all close. too close to rank. nevermind.

johndeeregreen

10-31-2011, 05:52 PM

I won't deny that Jimmy Page is a sloppy player, I just think the people who listen to him and say that just don't get what he and Led Zeppelin was all about. Page could without a doubt play perfectly and never miss a note, I've listened to hundreds of hours of bootlegs to know, which none of you have. He didn't want to. He was constantly pushing the envelope, and never played the same note twice. He played dirty, he played with an attitude. He was constantly creating and changing and tweaking on stage. It's what he did.
Puh-leeze. Playing with an attitude and playing well aren't mutually exclusive. Plenty of guys have done both. Let's face it, as a technical guitarist he just isn't anything to write home about. At all.

99% of the riffs you hear after Physical Graffiti was something that he came up with ON THE SPOT during live jams. You can literally go back to late 1972 to mid 1973 and hear every single riff from the album Presence being worked out live during extended solos and jams. He'd strike a note and play with it. Then you'd never hear it again until it was Achilles Last Stand or For Your Life 4-5 years later on an album.
You just made my point for me. Page's legacy is that of his creativity and songwriting, not of his actual playing, which is sloppy, fragmented, and as I said, just isn't that good.

johndeeregreen

10-31-2011, 05:52 PM

I always liked Billy Gibbons from ZZ Top. I thought his style and groove was just so slick and crisp. I remember reading somewhere that he was said to be Jimi Hendrix's favorite guitar player as well.
I've heard that legend too. And he is a great picker, definitely one of my favorites.

Kebab Stall

10-31-2011, 05:56 PM

What do people think of Rory Gallagher?

I've really become a fan recently.

LJJ

10-31-2011, 06:06 PM

What do people think of Rory Gallagher?

I've really become a fan recently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxiEMpcI83E :applause:

One of my favorite DVDs. I forgot who the other Rory Gallagher fan on this forum was, but I know there is another.

DeuceWallaces

10-31-2011, 06:07 PM

Everyone on ISH is a music theorist now

:bowdown: to the Musical Experts in here who think Santana is western rock pop and think Jimi invented the guitar

I took four years of music theory, sight-singing, and lit you ****tard. Just shut up and go away because you have no idea what you're talking about.

pete's montreux

10-31-2011, 06:12 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxiEMpcI83E :applause:

One of my favorite DVDs. I forgot who the other Rory Gallagher fan on this forum was, but I know there is another.
Me.

Compare a performance like this from '79 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3foI2KCimbA) and then from '94 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29vLuRn1kHg).

It's a completely different song. The earlier version was wild and ferocious, and the later is a refined, mature version. Still both end up at the same place and impress you along the way.

Math2

10-31-2011, 08:40 PM

Rank them as guitarists.

Jimmy Page

Hendrix

Clapton

Santana

Patrick Chewing

10-31-2011, 10:19 PM

I personally will rank Eddie Van Halen over Santana.

Oh without a doubt. EVH spawned so many guitarists it's not even funny.

johndeeregreen

11-01-2011, 01:33 AM

I think SRV was more naturally talented than all of these guys but can't compare to their impact, therefore he is not as high on the all-time list. But talking purely skill, he was a badass mofo, definitely my favorite.
I honestly wrote him off at first as some Kenny Wayne Shepard-esque Hendrix ripoff act. Jesus Christ, I've never been so wrong about anything in my life.

There's absolutely no doubt that SRV is a better technical guitarist than the three (and his playing definitely had a lot more attitude), but I can't compare him with Hendrix because without Hendrix, there is no SRV as we knew him. That's what so many people miss. That without what Jimi did, none of these guys would ever have become the players they did. In a million years. Also I dock SRV points for creativity; which isn't to say he wasn't creative (the guy was unreal; he did things within a 12 bar pattern on a guitar that had never been done before. Does anyone know how incredible of a statement that is for a genre that exists from copping other artists?), but he sure as shit wasn't Hendrix.

In terms of my favorite guitarists, however, SRV has usurped Clapton for the #2 spot behind Hendrix. I could actually rank them 1a and b in terms of how much I like them. SRV was a God.

lefthook00

11-01-2011, 01:57 AM

I honestly wrote him off at first as some Kenny Wayne Shepard-esque Hendrix ripoff act. Jesus Christ, I've never been so wrong about anything in my life.

There's absolutely no doubt that SRV is a better technical guitarist than the three (and his playing definitely had a lot more attitude), but I can't compare him with Hendrix because without Hendrix, there is no SRV as we knew him. That's what so many people miss. That without what Jimi did, none of these guys would ever have become the players they did. In a million years. Also I dock SRV points for creativity; which isn't to say he wasn't creative (the guy was unreal; he did things within a 12 bar pattern on a guitar that had never been done before. Does anyone know how incredible of a statement that is for a genre that exists from copping other artists?), but he sure as shit wasn't Hendrix.

In terms of my favorite guitarists, however, SRV has usurped Clapton for the #2 spot behind Hendrix. I could actually rank them 1a and b in terms of how much I like them. SRV was a God.

Hendrix is the GOAT(undisputed imo), but when I first heard SRV, I was like HOLY SH*TTTTTTTTT. There are others that are more graceful, have better legacies, better catalogues, but SRV was just a straight up beast. He may not be #1, but NO ONE would want to go head-to-head with this guy. That's the best way I can put it.

johndeeregreen

11-01-2011, 02:09 AM

Hendrix is the GOAT(undisputed imo), but when I first heard SRV, I was like HOLY SH*TTTTTTTTT. There are others that are more graceful, have better legacies, better catalogues, but SRV was just a straight up beast. He may not be #1, but NO ONE would want to go head-to-head with this guy. That's the best way I can put it.
Sums it up pretty well. Guy just attacked the notes he played in a way I've never really heard before or since.

Go Getter

11-01-2011, 02:40 AM

My friend, who happens to be hispanic, told me that he sees Santana as a Latin artist and not a Western artist fyi....he actually laughed at the notion.

Go Getter

11-01-2011, 02:52 AM

I always liked Billy Gibbons from ZZ Top. I thought his style and groove was just so slick and crisp. I remember reading somewhere that he was said to be Jimi Hendrix's favorite guitar player as well.

ZZ Top is the ish....their gimmick is classic/original.

Nick Young

11-01-2011, 09:57 AM

My friend, who happens to be hispanic, told me that he sees Santana as a Latin artist and not a Western artist fyi....he actually laughed at the notion.
yep these midwestern hicks are ignorant idiots like always, santana is from mexico, many of the bands songs are in Spanish and he plays latin style rock and jazz.

What does Western music even mean? Yes Mexico and South America are in the western part of the world. So to a Japanese or Chinese man, Santana can be considered western music.

But I'm pretty sure that isnt what Johndeergreen means, and he's just a biased moron underrating Santana because he probably hardly listens to him play.

There is no reason Hendrix is a better guitar player than Hendrix. They are contemporaries so you can't say that Santana wouldn't exist without Hendrix, and Santana has influenced the Latin music world as much as if not more than Hendrix has done for rock guitar.

It is all the myth and marketing of hendrix that makes everyone overrate him so much as an untouchable God.

And the fact that Jimi plays standard verse chorus verse pop songs with catchy riffs and vocals compared to the stuff Santana does. Same reason people underrate Van Morrison so much, because he plays mostly non-commercial style music

johndeeregreen

11-01-2011, 10:50 AM

And the fact that Jimi plays standard verse chorus verse pop songs with catchy riffs and vocals compared to the stuff Santana does. Same reason people underrate Van Morrison so much, because he plays mostly non-commercial style music
You are wrong. I'm sorry, there's no room for discussion. Quite frankly you're incorrect. You know nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, about the history of electric guitar or have a clue regarding how it is played and Hendrix's influence on it. This is pretty much par for the course for Russell Martin > Joe Mauer because he's better at calling pitches, but I just wanted to make sure you are cognizant of the fact that you don't have a ****ing clue.

Kebab Stall

11-01-2011, 12:17 PM

Go Getter

11-01-2011, 12:27 PM

Don't really get the whole argument about whether Santana is western music or not, because it doesn't change the fact that Hendrix is far more influential than any guitar player ever.

Just look at how the electric guitar was perceived and played before Hendrix came along. Absolutely no one played the electric guitar like that. Hendrix completely changed the way the electric guitar was played.
Just a sidebar I guess.

At any rate I think you're onto something...the first guitarist I ever really listened to was Hendrix and:

1. I listen to Purple Haze for days straight
2. I heard other guitarists and didn't like them--referred back to Hendrix.
3. Pretty much fell in love...the only artists I can remember falling in love with on the first song were Hendrix, Nas, Etta, and Stevie.

DeuceWallaces

11-01-2011, 12:34 PM

Go Getter

11-01-2011, 12:46 PM

Nick Young

11-01-2011, 03:40 PM

You are wrong. I'm sorry, there's no room for discussion. Quite frankly you're incorrect. You know nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, about the history of electric guitar or have a clue regarding how it is played and Hendrix's influence on it. This is pretty much par for the course for Russell Martin > Joe Mauer because he's better at calling pitches, but I just wanted to make sure you are cognizant of the fact that you don't have a ****ing clue.
how am I wrong? Just because you don't like what your hear and the facts in front of you doesn't make me wrong.

Nick Young

11-01-2011, 03:44 PM

Problem is nick doesn't know what western music is or anything about theory in general. Santana is playing the same shit as the beatles but with a timbale and someone singing occasionally in spanish.

For ****'s sake he isn't even the most prominent force on his 3rd and 4th album; it's Neil Schon from Journey.
portola has the best public music program in the state,I have even performed sax at disney land. You perform any where that big ever, little sport?

Yes the beatles play 6 minute instrumentals that involve george harrison soloing all the time don't they. You are a true genius of a music theorist:bowdown:

Nick Young

11-01-2011, 03:51 PM

Don't really get the whole argument about whether Santana is western music or not, because it doesn't change the fact that Hendrix is far more influential than any guitar player ever.

Just look at how the electric guitar was perceived and played before Hendrix came along. Absolutely no one played the electric guitar like that. Hendrix completely changed the way the electric guitar was played.
Santana was a contemporary of Hendrix. Who else can play like Santana? Santana changed the way electric guitar was played.

this is the same as the beatles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXc-1zTIef4&feature=related

deuce the tranny and johndeergreen dont even listen to santana, it's painfully obvious

And I have no idea where deuce learned his "music theory". Can you even read sheet music moron?

LJJ

11-01-2011, 03:56 PM

http://i.imgur.com/tHjpi.jpg

johndeeregreen

11-01-2011, 04:56 PM

how am I wrong? Just because you don't like what your hear and the facts in front of you doesn't make me wrong.
Your entire viewpoint is a fallacy. You know absolutely nothing about electric guitar, guitar theory, its history, and how Hendrix revolutionized the way it was played in ALL genres of music. You have no idea at all what you're talking about and yet you're trying to bumble your way through, and it's crashing and burning miserably. Like I said, were it a regular poster? I'd gladly go down the list of ways Hendrix changed the guitar world. For everyone. I'd throw in some quotes from legions of guitar Gods from different genres saying how he was the greatest. How he made Clapton frizz his hair to look more like Hendrix after he heard him play.:oldlol:

You're just completely out of your realm and are making up artificial nonsense to bolster a non-existent point.

johndeeregreen

11-01-2011, 04:58 PM

Santana was a contemporary of Hendrix. Who else can play like Santana? Santana changed the way electric guitar was played.

:oldlol:

This is just priceless. Takes the other person's argument, inserts new name, and away he goes. You're a ****ing joke.

johndeeregreen

11-01-2011, 05:04 PM

You know to this day I haven't heard anybody... I mean, I heard a lot of people pick up what Jimi completed or he was doing but I haven't heard anybody complete it or really pick it up. Not only from the volume or the approach to the sound or the tone but the philosophy behind it... Jimi didn't just play like that because he could strangle a Stratocaster or a Marshall, he played like that because he saw it a certain way and he took certain things that made his spirit be stronger upon his playing. Otherwise, anyone could do it - you just pick it up, lift it off from the CDs, you know, or the records. No, you had to have some kind of thing like the Blues Brothers' mission from God or something, you know. But you have to have some kind of inner fueling, inner anger or inner passion, some kind of really, really emotional spill-over on your playing otherwise it won't sound like that even if he had the same amplifier and the same guitar and everything - it still won't sound that way. I crave to try to create an album that basically goes that way, more like Sun Ra and Sonny Sharrock and Jimi Hendrix, you know, with a little bit of lyrics and very little vocals but mainly the electric guitar and the Hammond organ and the congas. Tell stories of interplanetary or galactical or celestial time rather than just earth time. I think that's what Jimi Hendrix used to call 'Sky Church Music'.

To me, Jimi Hendrix is like John Coltrane or Bob Marley or Miles Davis. He belongs to a group, the Beethovens, the Stravinskys, the Picassos, people who transcend trends or fashions or anything like that - they are all like Da Vincis to me.

Nope, doesn't sound like the way Hendrix played made an impression on him at all.

*waits for Bruinlove to say Carlos Santana is wrong too*

JMT

11-01-2011, 06:25 PM

It's common knowledge among guitar players that Page isn't a great note striker. He just isn't. And like I said, it's not an indictment, it's just the truth. He isn't revered for his amazing playing because it doesn't exist. He's revered for his creativity/songwriting/riffs.

He's a sloppy player. That's really all there is to it.

Bullshit. That's really all there is to it.

Nobody that knows anything about music or guitar would be so ignorant as to dismiss Page. Not a favorite of mine, but your take is absurd.

johndeeregreen

11-01-2011, 07:05 PM

Bullshit. That's really all there is to it.

Nobody that knows anything about music or guitar would be so ignorant as to dismiss Page. Not a favorite of mine, but your take is absurd.
Nobody's dismissing him.:confusedshrug: He's revered, and rightly so, for his ability to craft fantastic riffs and songs. Nobody's denying his talent in that regard.

However, if you're going to sit there and act like Jimmy Page is some sort of all-time great guitarist based on his technical ability, I'm sorry, we're done, because you're just ****ing stunned.

BTW, judging by the way you dismiss me completely I'm assuming you're a guitarist yourself?

Dizzle-2k7

11-01-2011, 10:59 PM

^LOL Jimmy muthafukkin Page isnt "technical"^

Applause

11-01-2011, 11:50 PM

Jimmy muthafukkin Page

:applause:

"Jimi Hendrix look-alike on Hollywood Blvd" - Jeff (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSdgVy5DPk0&feature=channel_video_title)

lefthook00

11-02-2011, 12:49 AM

Jimmy Page was the man, but the fact is, when it came to live performances, he was a bit sloppy..whether it was b/c he was improvising, f*cked up off drugs, or doing it on purpose, doesn't matter. But Hendrix was "sloppy" sometimes too, so take it how you want it.

Maybe sloppy isn't the right word, because it connotes a lack of skill. Let's just call it "loose".

You can base technicality on how hard it is to cover one's songs. Page's songs aren't that hard to cover when you compare to him a lot of other greats.

Nick Young

11-02-2011, 04:02 AM

Nope, doesn't sound like the way Hendrix played made an impression on him at all.

*waits for Bruinlove to say Carlos Santana is wrong too*
So because Santana worships Hendrix it means he is not comparable to Hendrix?

Of course he's not going to say "I rank myself right up there with Hendrix", first of all in his mind he probably doesnt and second of all he's not a cocky mfer like that, hes a humble pie

JMT

11-02-2011, 11:23 AM

Nobody's dismissing him.:confusedshrug: He's revered, and rightly so, for his ability to craft fantastic riffs and songs. Nobody's denying his talent in that regard.

However, if you're going to sit there and act like Jimmy Page is some sort of all-time great guitarist based on his technical ability, I'm sorry, we're done, because you're just ****ing stunned.

BTW, judging by the way you dismiss me completely I'm assuming you're a guitarist yourself?

I'm amused by your separation of "technical ability" from other aspects of the guitar. The ability to play blues at the level of Jimmy Page requires amazing technical ability.

Yes. As stated earlier in the thread I've been playing for 40 years, 20+ of them professionally. Not a rock star, but paid to play for a couple decades.

Whether or not you play doesn't matter to me. You don't have to be a bird to talk about flying. But I've never met a true musician who would feel comfortable ranking and disparaging the work of those light years better than yourself...or worse, for that matter. That's not what it's about.

JMT

11-02-2011, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Carlos Santana
To me, Jimi Hendrix is like John Coltrane or Bob Marley or Miles Davis. He belongs to a group, the Beethovens, the Stravinskys, the Picassos, people who transcend trends or fashions or anything like that - they are all like Da Vincis to me.

Nope, doesn't sound like the way Hendrix played made an impression on him at all.

And Hendrix said Frank Zappa was the greatest guitarist he'd ever heard. Does that mean we jump Frank to the top of this list?

It's so uncommon for musicians to say complimentary things about other musicians, right?

Go Getter

11-02-2011, 11:39 AM

I'm amused by your separation of "technical ability" from other aspects of the guitar. The ability to play blues at the level of Jimmy Page requires amazing technical ability.

Yes. As stated earlier in the thread I've been playing for 40 years, 20+ of them professionally. Not a rock star, but paid to play for a couple decades.

As far as us "being done", I'm good with that.

So can you (excuse me if you've already have) rank your, say, top5 and give me some material to look for?

JMT

11-02-2011, 12:34 PM

So can you (excuse me if you've already have) rank your, say, top5 and give me some material to look for?

Won't rank them; each brings something different to the mix. But if I were recommending 5 guitarists for a new fan of rock music to check out I'd go with:

Hendrix - Contrary to many, I prefer his more structured work. The more experimental he became, the less interested I was. This goes against my grain, as I tend to love new, progressive sounds. Check out Electric Ladyland; Are You Experienced?; Band of Gypsys

Jeff Beck - Maybe the most versatile of any of those generally regarded as "rock guitar gods". Truth; Wired; Blow by Blow are all classics.

Clapton - The more famous he became, the less I tended to like his work. Probably predjudiced by a lousy concert experience in the 70's where he showed up loaded and played poorly. But you can't ignore Layla and Assorted Love Songs (Derek & the Dominos); John Mayall & the Blues Breakers w/Eric Clapton.

So many others who deserve a listen if you really want to experience classic rock guitar:

Frank Zappa - A personal favorite. An absolute virtuoso, but requires some patience for the uninitiated. People tend to either love or hate him. Listen to : Hot Rats; Apostrophe; Overnite Sensation; and the brilliant "Shut Up n Play Yer Guitar" set

Duane Allman - check out the recently re-released "Anthology"

Jimmy Page - Again, I'm not a big Zeppelin fan, so it's tough for me to single anything out. Better to search a fan forum for recommendations.

Pete Townsend (Who)- Too often overlooked. A tremendous rock guitarist, capable of any style. "Who's Next"; "Live at Leeds"

Robert Fripp - solo "Exposure"; with King Crimson "In The Court Of The Crimson King"; "Red"; "Starless and Bible Black"

When you get done with these, there's

George Harrison's fantastic work w the Beatles
the aforementioned Carlos Santana
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Steve Howe (Yes)
Adrian Belew
ZZ Top (you mentioned Gibbons earlier, I believe)
Early Bowie w/ Mick Ronson "The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars"

Could go on and on. ENJOY!!!

Scoooter

11-02-2011, 12:50 PM

I didn't see Duane Allman mentioned. He was up there.

JMT

11-02-2011, 01:32 PM

I didn't see Duane Allman mentioned. He was up there.

See previous post. Recommended his "anthology", and his work on the "Layla..." album is an often overlooked part of rock history.

johndeeregreen

11-02-2011, 07:54 PM

And Hendrix said Frank Zappa was the greatest guitarist he'd ever heard. Does that mean we jump Frank to the top of this list?
Wow, facepalm. I don't think you could have possibly misinterpreted the point any more. You may be an extremely talented musician but you are positively atrocious at comprehending the written word.

johndeeregreen

11-02-2011, 07:56 PM

I'm amused by your separation of "technical ability" from other aspects of the guitar. The ability to play blues at the level of Jimmy Page requires amazing technical ability.
And I'm amused that you've managed to warp your reality into Jimmy Page being a precise note striker.

BTW, this isn't about how Jimmy Page pays the blues. Why are you continually addressing just about everything other than my original comment, which is that Page plays sloppily. Whether or not he can play the blues well has absolutely nothing to do with how cleanly he plays.

johndeeregreen

11-02-2011, 07:59 PM

So because Santana worships Hendrix it means he is not comparable to Hendrix?
Not at all. You and JMT have both totally missed the point. Which is this:

What Santana says DIRECTLY contradicts your notion that Hendrix is only famous as a guitarist because he had poppier riffs. Jesus Christ, what a doozy that comment is.

It also refutes your assertion that Santana was only a contemporary, and not influenced, by Hendrix.

Since you wouldn't take my word for it that you were wrong about both of those completely ludicrous ideas, I figured you might take Santana's. But unfortunately, you managed to miss that point too. Go figure.

johndeeregreen

11-02-2011, 08:02 PM

You don't have to be a bird to talk about flying. But I've never met a true musician who would feel comfortable ranking and disparaging the work of those light years better than yourself...or worse, for that matter. That's not what it's about.
WTF? Because Jimmy Page is a better guitarist than me I can't critique him? So if Paul Pierce goes 3-20 on 3pointers, I can't deride his shot selection because he's a way better basketball player than me?

Wow, it's going to be pretty hard to have a discussion about anything around here if we can't talk about guys that are better than us at something.

JMT

11-02-2011, 09:39 PM

WTF? Because Jimmy Page is a better guitarist than me I can't critique him? So if Paul Pierce goes 3-20 on 3pointers, I can't deride his shot selection because he's a way better basketball player than me?

.

You're talking apples and oranges, comparing performance in a sporting event to art.

And I didn't limit it to better; included worse as well. It's art, a form of expression, not an objective act like how accurate someone is on 3 point shots or how many TD passes they throw.

JMT

11-02-2011, 09:44 PM

And I'm amused that you've managed to warp your reality into Jimmy Page being a precise note striker.

.

"Note striker" :facepalm

johndeeregreen

11-02-2011, 09:52 PM

"Note striker" :facepalm
Tell me you think Jimmy Page plays cleanly and precisely. Say it. Then we can end this discussion because I will be able to see your mind is in an alternate universe where black is white and there is no reasoning with you.

johndeeregreen

11-02-2011, 09:53 PM

You're talking apples and oranges, comparing performance in a sporting event to art.

And I didn't limit it to better; included worse as well. It's art, a form of expression, not an objective act like how accurate someone is on 3 point shots or how many TD passes they throw.
I still don't understand how, even if it's art, we're unable to create our own rankings of how we feel about them. That doesn't make sense either.

BTW, the proficiency with how someone plays the guitar is absolutely NOT an objective act. That's what I'm trying to tell you. There's a difference between the way Joe Satriani manages the fretboard and a guy who can't fret a G chord. There are things that can be evaluated and measured without taking into account preference.

JMT

11-02-2011, 09:57 PM

Tell me you think Jimmy Page plays cleanly. Say it. Then we can end this discussion because I will be able to see there is absolutely no reasoning with you.

You miss the point entirely. "Note striking" has nothing to do with the ability to play the guitar. Nothing. It's like saying perfect dribbling form determines a good basketball player.

johndeeregreen

11-02-2011, 10:01 PM

You miss the point entirely. "Note striking" has nothing to do with the ability to play the guitar. Nothing. It's like saying perfect dribbling form determines a good basketball player.
First of all, absolutely being able to strike notes cleanly and proficiently has something to do with playing guitar. If you can't pick notes, well, then it's going to be pretty f*cking difficult to play the guitar, isn't it? In fact it's pretty important. WTF is wrong with you?

Secondly, OH MY GOD, ARE YOU SERIOUSLY THIS DENSE?

Did I ever say Jimmy Page isn't a great guitarist? That he isn't regarded as one? That the guy didn't create legendary songs, riffs, and solos, ALL OF WHICH CONTRIBUTE TO HIS LEGACY AS A GREAT GUITARIST?

Oops. No I didn't. I said his playing is sloppy. That's what you've chosen to argue with me about, but then you've changed your point completely several times. I honestly am at a loss for words at your inability to separate individual aspects of guitar playing. If I was sitting here saying "Jimmy Page is a shitty guitarist because he's sloppy," then yeah, maybe. But I'm not. You're the one that's trying to refute a basically incontestable fact that his actual playing is sloppy. I've said NUMEROUS times it doesn't detract from his legacy, that it isn't an indictment of him as a guitarist, etc, and yet you still refuse to understand the point. Seriously. Learn to read. Please. You seem like a pretty knowledgeable guy, but you're completely nullifying that with your inability to say anything relevant to what I'm saying.

JMT

11-02-2011, 10:29 PM

First of all, absolutely being able to strike notes cleanly and proficiently has something to do with playing guitar. If you can't pick notes, well, then it's going to be pretty f*cking difficult to play the guitar, isn't it? In fact it's pretty important. WTF is wrong with you?

.

Poorly worded on my part. The ability to strike notes cleanly is not in any way a sole determining factor of guitar playing ability.

You call Page "sloppy". Pray that someday you become so sloppy.

LJJ

11-02-2011, 10:43 PM

JMT, question.

In this group:

Page
Hendrix
Santana
Clapton
Zappa
Townsend
Allman
Stevie Ray Vaughan
Gibbons
Jeff Beck
Fripp

If you had to rank their playing from least sloppy to most sloppy, would Page be pretty close to the bottom of the list? Or not?

johndeeregreen

11-02-2011, 10:48 PM

Poorly worded on my part. The ability to strike notes cleanly is not in any way a sole determining factor of guitar playing ability.
Dude, I totally agree with you. And that's why I don't use it as such.

You call Page "sloppy". Pray that someday you become so sloppy.
He is sloppy, but that's okay. Because the guy still did things on a guitar us mortals can only dream of.

Anyways.

FatComputerNerd

11-09-2011, 09:47 AM

Buckethead > all

Amazed this thread did not get any other mentions of Buckethead. He really is incredibly talented. He can shred like no one else alive, and even Slash is on the record of having said Buckethead is "better" than him!

If you're not familiar with him I suggest watching a few of his songs/videos on youtube. "Nottingham Lace", and "Soothsayer" would be two good ones to start with.

Also, someone sent me a negrep for my first post, without leaving their name of course. Must be some buckethead haters up on here. (or computer nerd haters - why u mad?) :oldlol:

Nick Young

11-09-2011, 09:50 AM

Amazed this thread did not get any other mentions of Buckethead. He really is incredibly talented. He can shred like no one else alive, and even Slash is on the record of having said Buckethead is "better" than him!

If you're not familiar with him I suggest watching a few of his songs/videos on youtube. "Nottingham Lace", and "Soothsayer" would be two good ones to start with.

Also, someone sent me a negrep for my first post, without leaving their name of course. Must be some buckethead haters up on here. (or computer nerd haters) :oldlol:
buckethead has no soul and emotion in his playing, that is the problem with loads of these technical geniuses like Joe Satriani and buckethead, all technique, no humanity.

that said, i love me some buckethead
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMYnl22cqGU&feature=related

DeuceWallaces

11-09-2011, 10:26 AM

If you can't tell that Page is sloppy as **** and constantly off beat you don't know shit about music. I can't believe people can sit here and argue that.

Go Getter

11-09-2011, 11:01 AM

Just copped Jeff.

Nick Young

11-09-2011, 11:11 AM

If you can't tell that Page is sloppy as **** and constantly off beat you don't know shit about music. I can't believe people can sit here and argue that.
your face is sloppy as shit

RidonKs

11-09-2011, 03:44 PM

Just copped Jeff.
yeah, i just found a used copy of Blow by Blow as a result of this thread... first for $10 and then five minutes later for $3. i went with the $3 one.

pete's montreux

11-09-2011, 05:03 PM

Here is an exceptional instrumental by Buckethead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8akmP6Sjv2o

Kebab Stall

11-09-2011, 05:25 PM

Here is an exceptional instrumental by Buckethead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8akmP6Sjv2o
Always been my favourite of his.

The song is called Whitewash, but this version is nothing like the album version and this version shits all over the album version.

BRabbiT

11-09-2011, 05:57 PM

Hendrix
Clapton
Santana

Nick Young

11-09-2011, 06:53 PM

wow buckethead sounds way better live than he does on his records, much more emotion!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEDB4xJsXVo
never seen a guitarist outplay claypool before. TOO SICK

FatComputerNerd

11-10-2011, 06:25 AM

Early Buckethead from when he was the guitarist for a group led by Bootsy Collins called Praxis: (one of the greatest bands of all time!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7lsmHwstVk

It was Bootsy, Buckethead, Bernie Worrell, and
"Brain". I believe they were an George Clinton production.

My only gripe about him is that he made songs in honor of Lebron:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKEg69-0oz0 :mad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1bW1qu_6Fg :mad:

Couple of my all-time fav. Buckethead songs, are:
Nunchaka kata: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgPhsXHMSb8
Night of the Slunk:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGt4J9oBKKo
Nottingham Lace: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYxrdrzmuUw
Soothsayer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adV8-_hgL4g

Anyways, how anyone can say he plays w/o emotion is beyond me. Listen to these non-live versions:

Watching the boats with my dad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr4Ixrkz5Vc, or Hills of Eternity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr8Kyno-sG8, and then say that. While one of the greatest shredders alive, he is also very talented at playing slow, melodic mood music.

I got turned onto him in early 90s when I was introduced to the other Bootsy collabs. like P-Funk, etc. Buckethead came from the same crowd.

Nick Young

11-10-2011, 06:45 AM

wtf buckethead you're from anaheim man you should be writing songs about magic shaq and kobe, son I am disappoint

FatComputerNerd

11-10-2011, 07:02 AM

wow buckethead sounds way better live than he does on his records, much more emotion!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEDB4xJsXVo
never seen a guitarist outplay claypool before. TOO SICK

If you like this you'd love most of praxis' stuff.

Seven Laws of Woo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7lsmHwstVk

The Interworld And The New Innocence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ3FdgNuttw

Dead Man Walking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UBNro8IkGw

Crash Victim: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SSM4UpVdiA

Animal Behavior: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUL_gcHv0EA

Praxis: Transmutation (Mutatis Mutandis) = one of the greatest albums of all time.

BTW, not Praxis, but want some slaw?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7iHBMPsLVM

FatComputerNerd

11-10-2011, 07:13 AM

He also did some collaboration w/ Serj from System of a Down.

Pretty decent tune here called We are One w/ Serj on Vocals and Buckethead on guitar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkCEXrlfJ4E

His cover of Iron Maiden's "Wrathchild" is also pretty sweet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHM8Sfi36ts

He's also got some pretty strange and flat out scary songs/videos like "Rivet:, which actually gave me nightmares: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2NWy791nKM

johndeeregreen

11-12-2011, 12:07 PM

buckethead has no soul and emotion in his playing, that is the problem with loads of these technical geniuses like Joe Satriani and buckethead, all technique, no humanity.

that said, i love me some buckethead
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMYnl22cqGU&feature=related
I generally agree, which is why listening to Vai/Satriani/Malmsteen destroy Hendrix classics year upon year builds my distaste for them, but for whatever reason I've always been drawn to this Satch tune:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4fPv450OYM

What I don't get about these guys' playing is that it always seems to be more about showcasing guitar skills than it is about crafting a great song. Even in this one, Satch can't restrain himself for the good of the tune. That tapping section just kills it.

Nick Young

11-12-2011, 12:27 PM

it's called *********ion

FatComputerNerd

11-19-2011, 11:43 AM

For those who lacked either the time or the inclination to watch all the Buckethead videos, here is a pretty short compilation I found which gives an idea of what he's capable of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrAkKf6bB3k&feature=related

IMO he might be one of the top few underrated musicians ever.

FatComputerNerd

11-23-2011, 12:06 AM

had to post more buckethead, sorries!

Siege Engine live: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsjYqm-2PDk!

Buckethead doing a cover of Hendrix' "Machine Gun": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pngkxpmhMAg

DetroitPiston

11-23-2011, 01:15 AM

Also, funk and soul has some amazing guitarists.

Mahvishnu Orchestra (John McLaughlin) : Meeting of the Spirits (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQG7XpCiSVA)

Paco De Lucia: One (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5mp2olx-XE), Two (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oyhlad64-s),

Abd El-Krim

11-23-2011, 09:18 AM

Buckethead doing a cover of Hendrix' "Machine Gun": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pngkxpmhMAg

Some things just shouldn't be permitted. This is one of them, ****ing terrible.

FatComputerNerd

11-23-2011, 10:32 AM

Some things just shouldn't be permitted. This is one of them, ****ing terrible.

They did it as a tribute to Hendrix, not an insult.

Besides, Brian's solos on that live version put Hendrix' to shame. Hendrix was good, but Buckethead has more talent in one pinky finger than Hendrix did in his entirety.

I'm a big-time Hendrix fan too, and TBOG is one of my all-time fav. albums.

Abd El-Krim

11-23-2011, 10:45 AM

They did it as a tribute to Hendrix, not an insult.

Besides, Brian's solos on that live version put Hendrix' to shame. Hendrix was good, but Buckethead has more talent in one pinky finger than Hendrix did in his entirety.

I'm a big-time Hendrix fan too, and TBOG is one of my all-time fav. albums.

Dude is shredding over a legendary song for 10 minutes without hitting a single note that feels like anything. Mindless scale whoring, you probably think Dimebag Darrell had skills to.

FatComputerNerd

11-23-2011, 10:48 AM

FatComputerNerd

11-23-2011, 11:33 AM

Big Sur Moon live: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkeXE6FOf6s

Buckethead plays Purple Haze: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYj2dWTIuSo&feature=related

Buckethead covers E.V.H. (another underrated guitarist): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZYFdBNpJAA

and here he is doing Page: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL5beb7XZEs&feature=related (sound quality not so great on this one, unfortunately)

Buckethead on the Bass: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSx4gd0Czso&feature=related

and finally, Buckethead on the Banjo:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq65bkrC8B0

He is most talented, most technically skilled, and most musically diverse. He is the GOAT, IMO.

LJJ

11-23-2011, 12:21 PM

Dolphin

11-23-2011, 12:49 PM

Dude is shredding over a legendary song for 10 minutes without hitting a single note that feels like anything. Mindless scale whoring, you probably think Dimebag Darrell had skills to.

Dimebag did have skills, you silly.

Just because he wasn't AS skilled as someone else and played the guitar in a entirely different manner, doesn't mean he didn't have skill. It's not like he was a death metal guitarist who played a few chords over and over. lol

Considering the era he started in, I'd imagine like many metal guitarists of his time, he probably was quite proficient technically. Maybe had classical training or learned from people who did.

So please don't tell me he didn't have skills unless to be skilled in something in your mind means you have to be in the top 1% of all-time. :roll:

FatComputerNerd

11-24-2011, 12:54 AM

Buckethead does maggot brain, with help from Lili Haydn on the violin:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhk8AAwZV6U&feature=related

johndeeregreen

11-25-2011, 05:29 AM

Besides, Brian's solos on that live version put Hendrix' to shame. Hendrix was good, but Buckethead has more talent in one pinky finger than Hendrix did in his entirety.
Please explain your definition of everything that encompasses guitar 'talent' as related to the context you have just used it in.

johndeeregreen

11-25-2011, 05:32 AM

Some things just shouldn't be permitted. This is one of them, ****ing terrible.
This is now in serious contention for most insulting Hendrix cover ever, but it could never "top" the desecration of this classic. I apologize in advance for posting this. The musical disaster that is about to unfold will likely sear into your brain and it will take hundreds of listens to quality versions of this song to ever erase the memory. There are individuals in this video who should be perma-banned from covering Hendrix songs.

You've been warned. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojUtFyfnIJE)

BTW, that Purple Haze cover was humiliatingly awful as well. Being extremely technically proficient does NOT = being a good musician. Not saying Buckethead isn't, but I am saying that his covers of Hendrix songs ****ing suck.

Jailblazers7

11-25-2011, 09:05 AM

This is now in serious contention for most insulting Hendrix cover ever, but it could never "top" the desecration of this classic. I apologize in advance for posting this. The musical disaster that is about to unfold will likely sear into your brain and it will take hundreds of listens to quality versions of this song to ever erase the memory. There are individuals in this video who should be perma-banned from covering Hendrix songs.

You've been warned. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojUtFyfnIJE)

BTW, that Purple Haze cover was humiliatingly awful as well. Being extremely technically proficient does NOT = being a good musician. Not saying Buckethead isn't, but I am saying that his covers of Hendrix songs ****ing suck.

I almost knocked over my coffee as I just scrambled to click out of the browser before that song started playing. I saw it was Little Wing and had to get out of there before I heard it butchered.

FatComputerNerd

11-25-2011, 12:42 PM

This is now in serious contention for most insulting Hendrix cover ever, but it could never "top" the desecration of this classic. I apologize in advance for posting this. The musical disaster that is about to unfold will likely sear into your brain and it will take hundreds of listens to quality versions of this song to ever erase the memory. There are individuals in this video who should be perma-banned from covering Hendrix songs.

BTW, that Purple Haze cover was humiliatingly awful as well. Being extremely technically proficient does NOT = being a good musician. Not saying Buckethead isn't, but I am saying that his covers of Hendrix songs ****ing suck.

To each their own I guess. I think if I were a musician and another wanted to cover one of my songs I would take it as a major compliment. I also think the cover of Purple Haze was very well-done. :shrug:

FatComputerNerd

11-25-2011, 12:52 PM

Please explain your definition of everything that encompasses guitar 'talent' as related to the context you have just used it in.

By talent I refer primarily to level of technical skill, and what he is capable of doing, not only on the guitar, but on multiple instruments, and in multiple musical genres.

He has those freakishly long, spider-leg like fingers too, which I'd imagine helps a guitarist the way big hands helps a baller.

Here is one of his "lessons" on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaCErlW-3p8

Can you honestly say he's not amazingly talented after listening to that?
Also keep in mind that he is primarily a solo-artist.

Now, perhaps my comment about more talent in his pinky finger was an exaggeration. Everyone knows Hendrix was one of the GOATs. Why do you think Buckethead/Praxis covered him?

Anyhow, I think some people see the mask, nun-chucks, etc, and quickly write him off as a gimmick, but after seeing him live once their minds tend to quickly change.

FatComputerNerd

11-25-2011, 01:04 PM

Buckethead pays homage to Michael Jackson with a cover: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmR3kp1pYt0

And finally the tribute song he wrote for MJ, which shows some of his musical diversity (does more than shred).http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2oUPtNhcnE

FatComputerNerd

11-25-2011, 01:11 PM

"Welcome to Bucketheadland", performed live: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptKIjo2oLBI

This one was, I believe, a tribute to the great Randy Rhodes, hence the riffs from crazy train.

Abd El-Krim

11-25-2011, 01:12 PM

By talent I refer primarily to level of technical skill, and what he is capable of doing, not only on the guitar, but on multiple instruments, and in multiple musical genres.

He has those freakishly long fingers too, which I'd imagine helps a guitarist the way big hands helps a baller.

Here is one of his "lessons" on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaCErlW-3p8

Can you honestly say he's not amazingly talented after listening to that?
Also keep in mind that he is primarily a solo-artist.

Now, perhaps my comment about more talent in his pinky finger was an exaggeration. Everyone knows Hendrix was one of the GOATs. Why do you think Buckethead/Praxis covered him?

Anyhow, I think some people see the mask, nun-chucks, etc, and quickly write him off as a gimmick, but after seeing him live once their minds tend to quickly change.

Go to a guitar center and you'll meet any number of 15 year olds that can rape a fretboard, but can't sit in with a band or even tell you what key they're playing in. They've just memorized run after run and scale after scale like they're playing a video game or some shit. Which is what comes to mind when I hear them. Is that somebody playing guitar, or did I just get the high score on pacman? Obviously your boyfriend is one of the best shredders around, but that doesn't make him one of the best guitarists. Apples to oranges.

His Hendrix covers are especially atrocious because there's no phrasing, instead of playing behind the beat he's either desperately chasing it or running by it at 10000 bpm, and is that a ****ing synth I hear? Dude should stick to 80s rock or a genre where he'll be appreciated. He could learn a lot from Carlin - "It's not enough to know what notes to play, you have to know why they need to be played."

FatComputerNerd

11-25-2011, 01:17 PM

Go to a guitar center and you'll meet any number of 15 year olds that can rape a fretboard, but can't sit in with a band or even tell you what key they're playing in. They've just memorized run after run and scale after scale like they're playing a video game or some shit. Which is what comes to mind when I hear them. Is that somebody playing guitar, or did I just get the high score on pacman? Obviously your boyfriend is one of the best shredders around, but that doesn't make him one of the best guitarists. Apples to oranges.

Who said he can't sit with a band?

Did you listen to any of the Praxis stuff, or the times he's played w/ GNR, Primus, and others?

He has performed on over 50 more albums by other artists. His music spans such diverse areas as progressive metal, funk, blues, jazz, bluegrass, ambient, and avant-garde music. (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckethead)

Also, who said all he can do is shred and rape a fret board?

Take "I love my parents" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwXlzy9k7jI
or "For Mom": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJud5kqFEDU as examples of his diversity

Anyone who can go from playing like that, to playing like This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-woe3SCAaA), This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwnUa3lfe08), or This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTsi3g5s-zs&feature=related), is pretty darned talented and diverse.

Again...most technically skilled and most diverse.

JMHO

johndeeregreen

11-25-2011, 04:43 PM

By talent I refer primarily to level of technical skill, and what he is capable of doing, not only on the guitar, but on multiple instruments, and in multiple musical genres.
I had a feeling you were referring to technical skill only, and that's fine. I won't fight you there.

However, to me, 'talent' encompasses a lot more than how well/fast/cleanly you can play notes, although I admit this has a definite role in how a guitarist is evaluated. Hendrix, while not the most technically skilled of all time, actually was doing things technically that most people hadn't even thought of. Listen to a song like "Angel" and how he uses his thumb and fingers to basically play rhythm and lead guitar simultaneously. Now everyone and their dog uses their thumb when playing, and that sort of pattern is basically commonplace. That is a really small example, but it ties in with how innovative/creative, original, and good of a songwriter Hendrix was. Could improvise with the best of them too. So to me, when everything is considered, most guys can't hold a candle to Jimi as the whole meal deal, Buckethead included.

johndeeregreen

11-25-2011, 04:45 PM

To each their own I guess. I think if I were a musician and another wanted to cover one of my songs I would take it as a major compliment. I also think the cover of Purple Haze was very well-done. :shrug:
To me, there is no reason to shred all over it. By doing so you completely take the emotion out of two very emotionally charged Hendrix tunes (Machine Gun and Purple Haze...hell, ALL of his stuff, really) and thus really negate the purpose of paying him tribute. That's my main problem with guys with this out-of-this world technical skill, is that playing guitar to them is more about showcasing to the world how fast and accurate they can play than about creating something new and beautiful. I'm not saying they can't coexist - look at Randy Rhoads, for instance. But it doesn't happen very often.

FatComputerNerd

11-25-2011, 06:09 PM

To me, there is no reason to shred all over it. By doing so you completely take the emotion out of two very emotionally charged Hendrix tunes (Machine Gun and Purple Haze...hell, ALL of his stuff, really) and thus really negate the purpose of paying him tribute. That's my main problem with guys with this out-of-this world technical skill, is that playing guitar to them is more about showcasing to the world how fast and accurate they can play than about creating something new and beautiful. I'm not saying they can't coexist - look at Randy Rhoads, for instance. But it doesn't happen very often.

I don't disagree with most you've said here re: Hendrix. Nor does Buckethead for that matter; he sites him as one of his major influences, and has great respect for him.

But, as I've stated and shown evidence of repeatedly, Buckethead is about more than just playing fast. Apparently you didn't listen to any of his emotional songs I posted.

Negging me doesn't make you right, btw. If the neg wasn't from you then apologies, and agree to disagree.

Posrep also sent your way. :cheers:

johndeeregreen

11-25-2011, 06:18 PM

But, as I've stated and shown evidence of repeatedly, Buckethead is about more than just playing fast. Apparently you didn't listen to any of his emotional songs I posted.
I listened, but I didn't hear anything that really impressed me on a creative level whatsoever. It wasn't necessarily bad, it just wasn't anything that stood out to me.

Negging me doesn't make you right, btw. If the neg wasn't from you then apologies, and agree to disagree.
I don't neg anyone without putting my name on it.

FatComputerNerd

11-25-2011, 06:50 PM

I listened, but I didn't hear anything that really impressed me on a creative level whatsoever. It wasn't necessarily bad, it just wasn't anything that stood out to me.

I guess Bootsy, Primus, System of a down, G&R, Ozzy, and the countless others who've tried to hire him as their guitarist are all crazy.

johndeeregreen

11-25-2011, 07:04 PM

I guess Bootsy, Primus, System of a down, G&R, Ozzy, and the countless others who've tried to hire him as their guitarist are all crazy.
There is no correlation whatsoever between this post and what I've said. Being sought after to play someone else's songs has no bearing on how original and innovative you are as a songwriter.

hammer2010

11-25-2011, 07:19 PM

FatComputerNerd

11-26-2011, 02:47 AM

There is no correlation whatsoever between this post and what I've said. Being sought after to play someone else's songs has no bearing on how original and innovative you are as a songwriter.

I was referencing your comment on his level of creativity, which is off the charts, quite obviously. You are either deaf, dumb, or one of those I mentioned earlier who can't get past the mask, etc, and write him off as a gimmick.

p.s. Take your negs and shove 'em!

johndeeregreen

11-26-2011, 02:57 PM

I was referencing your comment on his level of creativity, which is off the charts, quite obviously. You are either deaf, dumb, or one of those I mentioned earlier who can't get past the mask, etc, and write him off as a gimmick.

p.s. Take your negs and shove 'em!
Translation: You don't see it my way, so you're deaf or dumb. Compelling argument. And I'll repeat: being asked to play songs someone else wrote doesn't speak to your level of creativity. That makes no sense. Try to think about that for a second.

BTW, up to this point I haven't negged you. It just seems a whole bunch of people here think you're full of shit.:confusedshrug: