Should The Knicks Regret the Carmelo Trade?

[knickswin]

I think absolutely not, but I want to know what you guys think now. As time moves on and I get less and less emotionally attached to the likes of Gallo and Felton, I think it was a pretty great trade for the Knicks. What do you all think?

[Yung D-Will]

I don't think you can ever regret the trade that gets you back into the playoffs after a long drought.

[el gringos]

Not even close- the question should be do the nets regret not giving up brook lopez for Carmelo to pair w dwill

[28renyoy]

Knicks lost the deal but they shouldn't regret it.

[knickswin]

I don't think you can ever regret the trade that gets you back into the playoffs after a long drought.

well, they were probably in the playoffs anyway, but I think the Carmelo + Amar'e Knicks have contender potential if they can make some tweaks whereas the Amar'e + others Knicks had a somewhat lower ceiling.

I think great players win championships and we needed ourselves a great player.

[DMV2]

I don't think you can ever regret the trade that gets you back into the playoffs after a long drought.
They were already playoff bound with the pre-Melo group.

But in the long run, it's a good trade. They now need to put good supporting cast around Melo and Amare.

[hawkfan]

I think absolutely not, but I want to know what you guys think now. As time moves on and I get less and less emotionally attached to the likes of Gallo and Felton, I think it was a pretty great trade for the Knicks. What do you all think?

On one level, yes, because the Nets got Deron Williams for less than what the Knicks gave up for Melo. It might have been where the Knicks could have kept Gallinari and gotten Williams.

On the other hand, the Knicks are finally a respectable team again after having several very bad seasons.

Next summer they will have cap space to build around two superstars, which is not a bad position to be in.

[Yung D-Will]

They were already playoff bound with the pre-Melo group.

But in the long run, it's a good trade. They now need to put good supporting cast around Melo and Amare.
:facepalm
Wow big fail on my part I wasn't even thinking about the pre melo- Amare mvp era. Major brain fart

[knickswin]

On one level, yes, because the Nets got Deron Williams for less than what the Knicks gave up for Melo. It might have been where the Knicks could have kept Gallinari and gotten Williams.

On the other hand, the Knicks are finally a respectable team again after having several very bad seasons.

Next summer they will have cap space to build around two superstars, which is not a bad position to be in.

the Nets package was much better than the Knicks, and there's no way the Knicks could have gotten either DWill or Melo without giving up Gallo because he's the only young guy from the Knicks with serious potential. I don't think the Jazz would have even called up the Knicks; that package wasn't that great.

[knickswin]

Knicks lost the deal but they shouldn't regret it.

yes, because Carmelo is a scrub and Durant >>>>>>>>>>>> Carmelo. We get it.

[28renyoy]

yes, because Carmelo is a scrub and Durant >>>>>>>>>>>> Carmelo. We get it.

i never said that carmelo was a scrub, but he's a boarderline top 12 player and not a superstar that can win a championship by himself.

[EnoughSaid]

Of course not. It's Carmelo Anthony. The second best small forward, a top 10 player and the best scorer in the league.






COME AT ME JOYNER MFER!!

[Dave3]

i never said that carmelo was a scrub, but he's a boarderline top 12 player and not a superstar that can win a championship by himself.
There is no current superstar that can win anything by himself. In the last 30 years, only Hakeem and Duncan have done it "by themselves"

Kind of a useless standard to compare it to.

[knickswin]

i never said that carmelo was a scrub, but he's a boarderline top 12 player and not a superstar that can win a championship by himself.

Okay, I regret taking the bait on this one. We're not having the umpteenth Durant versus Carmelo discussion in this thread.

[Dave3]

Of course not. It's Carmelo Anthony. The second best small forward, a top 10 player and the best scorer in the league.






COME AT ME JOYNER MFER!!
You don't need Joyner to point out the mistakes in the post. He's not the best scorer, he's the most versatile, he's the third best small forward not the second best.

Lastly though, he is a top 10 player, fighting for that 10th spot with Deron, but he arguably wins that fight.

[HylianNightmare]

....no

[EnoughSaid]

You don't need Joyner to point out the mistakes in the post. He's not the best scorer, he's the most versatile, he's the third best small forward not the second best.

Lastly though, he is a top 10 player, fighting for that 10th spot with Deron, but he arguably wins that fight.

Melo >>> Durant. I don't even know how you could take Durant over him. And how is being the most versatile not being the best? If you can do something the most ways, you are automatically the best at it.

[Hondo]

If they can get a defensive athlete of a center, and an Arron Afflalo type of shooting guard with Shumpert turning into an awesome point guard, they'll be world beaters.

[DevilsAssassin]

Melo >>> Durant. I don't even know how you could take Durant over him. And how is being the most versatile not being the best? If you can do something the most ways, you are automatically the best at it.

Michael Beasley is a more versatile scorer than Kevin Durant..............does that mean he is a better scorer than Kevin Durant?

[Dave3]

Melo >>> Durant. I don't even know how you could take Durant over him. And how is being the most versatile not being the best? If you can do something the most ways, you are automatically the best at it.
Well I'd take Durant because he scores more at equal or better efficiency, guards the perimeter better, and rebounds equally.

And no, if you can do something the most ways you're not the best at it. Shaq had no perimiter game in 2001, but Tmac had both a perimiter, slashing, and post game. Was Tmac a better scorer?

It doesn't matter if you have an extra skill or two in scoring if a different player is better than you at everything else.

The only thing someone like Melo has over Durant would be a post game. That added skill isn't enough to make up for the discrepancy in height which allows Durant to be a much better finisher slashing to the rim and getting to the free throw line. Most versatile means he can "do" the most things, not score the best. How is the best scorer in the league a player who has never led the league in scoring?

[knickswin]

Can this thread please not morph into the 10 millionth Melo versus Durant thread?

because Carmelo is clearly better than Durant.

[28renyoy]

someone go ahead and post Durant vs Carmelo in

Career regular season stats
Career playoff stats
Career playoff record
Career accomplishments/awards

[knickswin]

someone go ahead and post Durant vs Carmelo in

Career regular season stats
Career playoff stats
Career playoff record
Career accomplishments/awards

No one do that. I'm sick of this conversation. We had it like five times this summer. It's boring.

[knickswin]

I'm wondering if any New York fans still regret it or think we got shafted. I think they were the ones who took it worst when it happened.

[DevilsAssassin]

Deron Williams + Amare

OR

Carmelo Anthony + Amare

[iDunk]

Now that you look at it its pretty much:

Melo, Billups, Balkman for Gallinari, Miller, Mozgov, 2 2nd round picks, 1st round pick

The Knicks and Nuggets didn't do much in the playoffs last year, although the Knicks will be much more relevant than the Nuggets for the next 3-5 years.

The Knicks win the deal and its really not debatable anymore.

[airchibundo507]

Well I'd take Durant because he scores more at equal or better efficiency, guards the perimeter better, and rebounds equally.

And no, if you can do something the most ways you're not the best at it. Shaq had no perimiter game in 2001, but Tmac had both a perimiter, slashing, and post game. Was Tmac a better scorer?

It doesn't matter if you have an extra skill or two in scoring if a different player is better than you at everything else.

The only thing someone like Melo has over Durant would be a post game. That added skill isn't enough to make up for the discrepancy in height which allows Durant to be a much better finisher slashing to the rim and getting to the free throw line. Most versatile means he can "do" the most things, not score the best. How is the best scorer in the league a player who has never led the league in scoring?

let's not forget clutch scoring, ball handling and passing. Also, in addition to his post game, Melo is a much better midrange, face-up scorer.

[iDunk]

let's not forget clutch scoring, ball handling and passing. Also, in addition to his post game, Melo is a much better midrange, face-up scorer.
BUT, BUT DUDE!!!@!11 HAVE YoU n0t Seenz durantzz chAtrity GAmE HaNdLez!?/1/1/1 HE wuz TEARING UP thaT pRESSsure DefensE!!11

:oldlol:

[Dave3]

let's not forget clutch scoring, ball handling and passing. Also, in addition to his post game, Melo is a much better midrange, face-up scorer.
I'm not naming skills Melo is better at than Durant, I'm naming skills Melo has that Durant is completely missing almost. Melo has a post game while Durant has none at all (for an NBA player), which is why I listed it.

[LJJ]

It depends on what goal the Knicks had with the trade.

It does make the Knicks a slightly better team and a whole lot more marketable short term. But you aren't ever going to build a championship team around Anthony and Stoudemire.

The roster they had before the trade wasn't loaded; but that roster had options, and that roster had variables.

[knickscity]

I'm wondering if any New York fans still regret it or think we got shafted. I think they were the ones who took it worst when it happened.
I didn't regret it all.

I just thought we gave up way too much, when we were truly competing against ourselves.

He used his extension to make sure they dealt with NY, and didn't trade him anywhere he didn't want to go.

But nope we got the better player, and supported the trade even before it went down.

Now I did see some of my co-Knicks fans even change their screen names after the trade.:lol

[G-train]

If they can get a defensive athlete of a center, and an Arron Afflalo type of shooting guard with Shumpert turning into an awesome point guard, they'll be world beaters.
http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2011/03/20/sports/photos_stories/NBA180117--300x450.jpg

http://www.sportsagentblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Landry-Fields.jpg

[DevilsAssassin]

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2011/03/20/sports/photos_stories/NBA180117--300x450.jpg

http://www.sportsagentblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Landry-Fields.jpg

ARE YOU SUGGESTING THE KNICKS GET BOGUT :eek:

[knickscity]

Why does every thread concerning Melo, would up being Melo vs Durant?

[RRR3]

Why does every thread concerning Melo, would up being Melo vs Durant?
Same reason every thread about LeBron/Kobe/Jordan invariably will see the other two brought up.

[HylianNightmare]

It depends on what goal the Knicks had with the trade.

It does make the Knicks a slightly better team and a whole lot more marketable short term. But you aren't ever going to build a championship team around Anthony and Stoudemire.

The roster they had before the trade wasn't loaded; but that roster had options, and that roster had variables.


you don't think with a few role players and a new coach the knicks could make push at a ring?

[knickscity]

ARE YOU SUGGESTING THE KNICKS GET BOGUT :eek:
I would, but can't happen.

[iDunk]

Shumpert is going to be waaaay better than Afflalo, not more consistent but just better.

[RRR3]

you don't think with a few role players and a new coach the knicks could make push at a ring?
They're not challenging the Bulls or the Heat until Melo and STAT start playing defense.

[HylianNightmare]

They're not challenging the Bulls or the Heat until Melo and STAT start playing defense.
i agree, but i think if they get a good defensive coach and some solid role players they could push the bulls and heat.
but that is all assuming they get rid of the current coach imo

[iDunk]

They're not challenging the Bulls or the Heat until Melo and STAT start playing defense.
Why do people think STAT or Melo are not capable of doing that?

[G-train]

Why do people think STAT or Melo are not capable of doing that?

Well they simply are not ever going to be great defenders consistently.
As long as they run hard back on D and play solid D in the halfcourt they can still win a title anyway.

[iDunk]

Well they simply are not ever going to be great defenders consistently.
As long as they run hard back on D and play solid D in the halfcourt they can still win a title anyway.
That's what I'm saying, but people think they can't do that.

Stoudemire has already halfway proven that, he's an underrated help defender. Now all he needs to do is learn to play man to man defense effectively.

Melo has also shown flashes and like the commentary in 2k11 says he at least gives an effort to get better and I'm sure that'll show next season.

[longtime lurker]

On one level, yes, because the Nets got Deron Williams for less than what the Knicks gave up for Melo. It might have been where the Knicks could have kept Gallinari and gotten Williams.

On the other hand, the Knicks are finally a respectable team again after having several very bad seasons.

Next summer they will have cap space to build around two superstars, which is not a bad position to be in.

Nets gave up way more for D Will(without an extension) than the Nets did. Essentially they gave up 3 lottery picks and an all star PG. When was the last time a team received a great package like that for a superstar?

[G-train]

The big thing for the knicks will be quality scoring/rebounding/D at the 3 and/or the 4 off the bench so that Melo and Amare arent tired in the playoffs. It may develop internally, or otherwise they could find it in FA.
If I was Amare I would be calling all lockout to ensure Douglas is working out, and likewise Bill Walker and Fields.

[knickswin]

Carmelo's a good man defender when he's trying. His problem is that he usually calls for switches too much.

[Faberg]

No, because a Brooklyn-Born Carmelo Anthony on the Brooklyn Nets with Jay-Z as minority owner would be a marketing disaster for James Dolan to have to deal with.

[kenny817]

i never said that carmelo was a scrub, but he's a boarderline top 12 player and not a superstar that can win a championship by himself.
Who can win a championship by themselves? Except Dirk...can't really think of anybody.

Now that I think about it...Dirk had a lil help

[Kevin_Gamble]

Why do people think STAT or Melo are not capable of doing that?

Because they have never turned it up on defense. Why do people think Amare and Melo are capable of doing that is the real question.

[Bigsmoke]

Lol they can always gets those players that were traded away back. U think they can land another Melo anytime soon?

[RobertdeMeijer]

I found the trade horrible. As a Knicks fan, I regret it.

I don't like Carmelo Anthony. I honestly think he's so bad at defense, I'd rather have Gallinari (who is younger, taller, cheaper and almost as good offensively in my opinion)

I love Chauncey Billups. But he's getting old. I'm surprised he actually works in the D'Antoni system. But Raymond Felton was doing fine, so...

I wasn't a big fan of Wilson Chandler, but he was young and scoring points, so I think he could have been a good trade chip to hold on to.

Meh...

[OmniStrife]

The Knicks should regret hiring D'Anthony.
As we Suns fans have before.

[Cali Syndicate]

Yes because they gave up a cast of good role players for a Melo, who was hinting signing with them the next season anyways and Billups, who is practically nothing more than a good role player at this stage in his career.

Kinda ironic following the "blockbuster trade," the Knicks went struggling into the playoffs and the Nuggets went streaking into the playoffs.

But Melo will a great addition in the long run tho.

[knicksman]

The Knicks should regret hiring D'Anthony.
As we Suns fans have before.

Well hows porter, a defensive coach, doing for you? Fortunately you have gentry who knows dantonis system.

[Kellogs4toniee]

Absolutely not. The Knicks have Carmelo, Stoudemire, and Billups. That's tremendous players, and more importantly all with veteran experience. They know what it takes to win. Now they have the pieces.

There future is looking very bright. If they manage to hold onto Landry Fields and add on some other pieces, I expect them to seriously contend in a few seasons at most.

[Kellogs4toniee]

I found the trade horrible. As a Knicks fan, I regret it.

I don't like Carmelo Anthony. I honestly think he's so bad at defense, I'd rather have Gallinari (who is younger, taller, cheaper and almost as good offensively in my opinion)
I love Chauncey Billups. But he's getting old. I'm surprised he actually works in the D'Antoni system. But Raymond Felton was doing fine, so...

I wasn't a big fan of Wilson Chandler, but he was young and scoring points, so I think he could have been a good trade chip to hold on to.

Meh...

Strongly disagree with the bolded part. Mostly not becuase I'm a big fan of Melo, but I think you are either under-rating him or overrating Ganillari too much with that statement. Ganillari to me was always best as a third option if you want your team to have the best chance at succeeding. Then again, it's not like I paid attention the Knicks like crazy last season before the trade. Is there somethig I'm missing?

[bballer]

the nuggets benefitted more than the knicks, but the knicks should be happy

[pegasus]

Now that you look at it its pretty much:

Melo, Billups, Balkman for Gallinari, Miller, Mozgov, 2 2nd round picks, 1st round pick

The Knicks and Nuggets didn't do much in the playoffs last year, although the Knicks will be much more relevant than the Nuggets for the next 3-5 years.

The Knicks win the deal and its really not debatable anymore.

Denver also received Felton and Chandler. Chandler was an RFA, so him signing in China means that Denver lost him for nothing. You may have left him out of the equation for that reason, but what about Felton?

I think NY definitely won with that trade. When you get a chance to obtain one of the few superstars in the league, you go for it.

NY will get the other necessary pieces this year and/or next to become a true contender.

[RRR3]

Denver also received Felton and Chandler. Chandler was an RFA, so him signing in China means that Denver lost him for nothing. You may have left him out of the equation for that reason, but what about Felton?

I think NY definitely won with that trade. When you get a chance to obtain one of the few superstars in the league, you go for it.

NY will get the other necessary pieces this year and/or next to become a true contender.

But Amar'e really declined after Carmelo came. Maybe they'll learn to work well together, but I was really shocked at how much Amar'e's production dropped after Melo joined the Knicks.

[bagelred]

I've said this many times. Although the actual trade negotiatoin by the Knicks was awful, in that the Knicks gave up about 40% too much, ultimately it was the right move.

If you want to win championships, you need championship level talent. And Amare and Melo are just that.

Get your superstars. Worry about the rest later.

Are we really debating whether getting a 27 year old borderline Top 10 player, who desperately wanted to play for your team, and without giving up your other Top 15 player, is the right move?



Close thread.

[Bigsmoke]

I found the trade horrible. As a Knicks fan, I regret it.

I don't like Carmelo Anthony. I honestly think he's so bad at defense, I'd rather have Gallinari (who is younger, taller, cheaper and almost as good offensively in my opinion)

I love Chauncey Billups. But he's getting old. I'm surprised he actually works in the D'Antoni system. But Raymond Felton was doing fine, so...

I wasn't a big fan of Wilson Chandler, but he was young and scoring points, so I think he could have been a good trade chip to hold on to.

Meh...

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/BigSmokes/dMDVB.png

[Clutch]

Maybe they could have ended up with a better deal but it was the right move.

You give up what it takes to get a superstar,especially if already have one.

[NuggetsFan]

Why? It's what they wanted. Star power combo with Amare and Melo. It's been like 30 games. Come back to it in a few more years. Still don't think anybody really won that trade. NY got what they wanted and Denver pretty much took them for everything they had to offer sans Fields.

NY kinda got screwed by the fact the lockout was coming up tho. If there was no lockout\CBA changing they probably would have got Melo in FA and or for Wilson Chandler. Melo wanted his money so basically helped Denver big time with leverage.

[knicksman]

But Amar'e really declined after Carmelo came. Maybe they'll learn to work well together, but I was really shocked at how much Amar'e's production dropped after Melo joined the Knicks.

Because amare decided to coast. He performed better after the carmelo trade. In fact they were 7-1 against playoff teams and their only loss is against orlando. They were even leading until nelson gets hot in the 4th quarter. Its just that health is more important to amare than stats. At that time, theres no point in trying to win all the remaining games. The best they could get is 4th place. And if they could get the 5th place, its useless because they wont still have homecourt advantage and worse is that they will be facing orlando at either 4th or 5th place. Orlando is knicks' worst matchup coz they dont have a center. So why not coast? Heat,boston, and chicago dont have big frontline. And knicks were 2-0 against chicago so its better to take on chicago. Thats why they decided to coast to get the 8th seed.


And heres the evidence of the coasting. The losing streak started against boston. And in that game they were leading the entire game just like the playoffs which was impressive because it was a back2back game and on a 2nd back2back in 5 nights. Then suddenly billups attempted 4 consecutive 3-pointers early on the shotclock. I never saw billups making those type of plays. He may attempt a 3-pointer on a fastbreak but no way he does it on 4 consecutive possessions. Those plays changed the lead in favor of boston and lost. And then it happened again against orlando. Billups again made those type of plays which caused the loss. I think those plays is evidence that theyre trying to lose games. And then the losing streak starts after that.

If they tried to win those games, i expected amare/melo to be pissed or even cry like the heat. But they didnt and instead, they were just laughing and enjoying with each other and so that just proves that they really are coasting.

I judged teams based on how they perform against top teams just like I judge players based on how they perform in the clutch. And the knicks were good against playoff teams. They even easily beat the hawks and memphis which are both 2nd round teams who gave oklahoma trouble. And in the playoffs, the celtics needed the help of the refs just to win game 1, the only time when they were healthy. Thats why I expect the knicks to be competing for the top spot next season.

[RRR3]

Because amare decided to coast. He performed better after the carmelo trade. In fact they were 7-1 against playoff teams and their only loss is against orlando. They were even leading until nelson gets hot in the 4th quarter. Its just that health is more important to amare than stats. At that time, theres no point in trying to win all the remaining games. The best they could get is 4th place. And if they could get the 5th place, its useless because they wont still have homecourt advantage and worse is that they will be facing orlando at either 4th or 5th place. Orlando is knicks' worst matchup coz they dont have a center. So why not coast? Heat,boston, and chicago dont have big frontline. And knicks were 2-0 against chicago so its better to take on chicago. Thats why they decided to coast to get the 8th seed.


And heres the evidence of the coasting. The losing streak started against boston. And in that game they were leading the entire game just like the playoffs which was impressive because it was a back2back game and on a 2nd back2back in 5 nights. Then suddenly billups attempted 4 consecutive 3-pointers early on the shotclock. I never saw billups making those type of plays. He may attempt a 3-pointer on a fastbreak but no way he does it on 4 consecutive possessions. Those plays changed the lead in favor of boston and lost. And then it happened again against orlando. Billups again made those type of plays which caused the loss. I think those plays is evidence that theyre trying to lose games. And then the losing streak starts after that.

If they tried to win those games, i expected amare/melo to be pissed or even cry like the heat. But they didnt and instead, they were just laughing and enjoying with each other and so that just proves that they really are coasting.

I judged teams based on how they perform against top teams just like I judge players based on how they perform in the clutch. And the knicks were good against playoff teams. They even easily beat the hawks and memphis which are both 2nd round teams who gave oklahoma trouble. And in the playoffs, the celtics needed the help of the refs just to win game 1, the only time when they were healthy. Thats why I expect the knicks to be competing for the top spot next season.
http://bigpichost.com/files/_j3fdiae3_3__c3rfyqj6.gif

[chips93]

http://bigpichost.com/files/_j3fdiae3_3__c3rfyqj6.gif


he claims the knicks tanked so they could face the celtics :facepalm

[RRR3]

he claims the knicks tanked so they could face the celtics :facepalm
They were brilliant against the Celtics, tho....oh wait. :lol How the f does that guy have green rep? Sad board :facepalm

[knicksman]

he claims the knicks tanked so they could face the celtics :facepalm


I claimed they tank so they could face the bulls because they were 2-0. We all knew what happened to celtics a season ago when they were coasting. So the knicks thought that celtics might be doing it again after the perkins trade. So its better to face the bulls than the tricky celtics. In that way, they would be facing an easier opponent, amare can relax and thus minimizing the risk of injury and they would have a better draft pick. But I think they realize that celtics struggle is legit when they lost to the bulls and heat. Plus the hate for melo is growing, they decided to win the remaining games, thus the winning streak.

[Lebron23]

The Knicks were a better team before they acquired Cancermelo Anthony.Amare and Carmelo doesn't fit together. One of them needs to be trade ASAP.

[Scoooter]

That nickname isn't particularly creative.

[bluechox2]

well sign gallo in the offseason

[NuggetsFan]

Melo wanted his money so basically helped Denver big time with leverage.

THANK YOU MELO.

It's hilarious. Melo wanted to go win "rings" witch is bullshit IMO he just wanted to be in NY, Denver's roster was a good roster and winning wasn't apart of his choice.

Melo screwed his current team and helped Denver huge. Made everyone think NJ was possible, gave Denver leverage when in the end it became obvious NY was the only place he wanted to go. Just wanted to make sure they traded for him so he got his extension and didn't have to hit FA.

I will admit I'm still abit shocked. Denver got so much better after Melo witch I wouldn't have predicted. I remember NY fans telling us Denver fans how we were mad and upset, we'd be irrelevant soon enough and NY were contenders etc. NY always did remind of the Melo\Iverson led Nuggets with less depth. Two players who's best area is scoring the ball ala Melo\Amare. There looking the part right now too. They'll turn it on eventually, make the playoffs and hit a first round exit similar to Denver.

It's crazy. Denver's record is waaaay better than NY's since the trade. We've won a playoff game and had a close series when they got swept. They did deal with injuries so gotta credit that. This whole "time to gel" thing tho is getting old. Denver got back more new players and gelled just fine. Mike D is used as the scapegoat and rightfully so but comes a point in time where you just have to ask yourself maybe we were all wrong, it's not a great fit. Regardless of coach.

Cue Knicks fan telling me I'm mad :roll:

[FireDavidKahn]

It was obviously the right move. In the NBA you win with superstars. You are only as good as your strongest link. Quality > quantity. Everyone they traded for Carmelo was worse than Carmelo.

Sure the Knicks are struggling now but they will turn it around.

[Sarcastic]

The Knicks were a better team before they acquired Cancermelo Anthony.Amare and Carmelo doesn't fit together. One of them needs to be trade ASAP.

They need to try with a new coach before they trade either of them. D'Antoni is the problem.

[Clutch]

First fire D'Antoni and hire a competent coach.
Let's make conclusions after that.

Still,I must admit I'm extremely disappointed.

Nuggets won the deal for now.

[DevilsAssassin]

It was obviously the right move. In the NBA you win with superstars. You are only as good as your strongest link. Quality > quantity. Everyone they traded for Carmelo was worse than Carmelo.

Sure the Knicks are struggling now but they will turn it around.

who is the superstar?

[FireDavidKahn]

who is the superstar?
:rolleyes: :sleeping

[NuggetsFan]

They need to try with a new coach before they trade either of them. D'Antoni is the problem.

He's a scapegoat. I won't even try to argue it because as an Avs fan I know what it's like when your a fan and every negative becomes linked to your coach. Getting rid of Mike D? It'd help no doubt. Let's not act like Mike D hasn't had success tho. He's shown he can win regular season games if you have the talent ala the Suns. Mike Woodson? Solid coach. I'm sure he's had his input on the sidelines.

Knicks problems run deeper than coaching. It's there depth, forcing guy's like Shumpert into bigger roles than they should be in. Melo\Amare not mixing together in the sense where you have two bonifide superstars like expected.

[NuggetsFan]

Nuggets won the deal for now.

Why tho? New York got exactly what they wanted. They wanted Carmelo Anthony. Carmelo Anthony put them in a position where basically it was either give up everything for me or I'm going to force your hand by letting on like I'll play for NJ or whatever. NY wanted Carmelo the two star team up with Amare, possibility of a Chris Paul later on so they gave up the farm for him.

Just like Denver we'll never "lose" this trade. They got the best possible deal for Melo. Both teams got exactly what they want. It's just working out really good for one team at the moment while the other isn't getting the success they thought they would.

[christian1923]

He's a scapegoat. I won't even try to argue it because as an Avs fan I know what it's like when your a fan and every negative becomes linked to your coach. Getting rid of Mike D? It'd help no doubt. Let's not act like Mike D hasn't had success tho. He's shown he can win regular season games if you have the talent ala the Suns. Mike Woodson? Solid coach. I'm sure he's had his input on the sidelines.

Knicks problems run deeper than coaching. It's there depth, forcing guy's like Shumpert into bigger roles than they should be in. Melo\Amare not mixing together in the sense where you have two bonifide superstars like expected.

Have you been watching the knicks games? the way they try to run the offense is terriblee

[NuggetsFan]

Have you been watching the knicks games? the way they try to run the offense is terriblee

Your right. There 6-9 because of Mike D and only Mike D. Melo's the most versatile offensive player in the game IMO and seen him for 7+ years have success in any offense ran for him but yup Mike D is the reason he's shooting like 40% for the season.

Not saying coaching isn't an issue, it obviously is. 6-9? That's on the coaches and players and GM's for giving NY the talent pool they have.

Edit. Just one example, Melo goes through alot of shooting slumps. In NY there's not lots of depth to make up for that. In Denver? He had Iverson, Billups, Lawson, AA, Nene, Camby etc. list goes on of guy's who'd step up from one game to another and relieve the pressure. Melo shot like what? 42% in the conference finals that one year yet Denver took L.A to a close 6 game series.

[christian1923]

Your right. There 6-9 because of Mike D and only Mike D. Melo's the most versatile offensive player in the game IMO and seen him for 7+ years have success in any offense ran for him but yup Mike D is the reason he's shooting like 40% for the season.

Not saying coaching isn't an issue, it obviously is. 6-9? That's on the coaches and players and GM's for giving NY the talent pool they have.

Didnt melo use to post up and get easier shots in denver though? he is hardly posting up. alot of 3's and contested jumpers is what i been seeing this year.

[Sarcastic]

Your right. There 6-9 because of Mike D and only Mike D. Melo's the most versatile offensive player in the game IMO and seen him for 7+ years have success in any offense ran for him but yup Mike D is the reason he's shooting like 40% for the season.

Not saying coaching isn't an issue, it obviously is. 6-9? That's on the coaches and players and GM's for giving NY the talent pool they have.

Edit. Just one example, Melo goes through alot of shooting slumps. In NY there's not lots of depth to make up for that. In Denver? He had Iverson, Billups, Lawson, AA, Nene, Camby etc. list goes on of guy's who'd step up from one game to another and relieve the pressure. Melo shot like what? 42% in the conference finals that one year yet Denver took L.A to a close 6 game series.

Do you really think coaching isn't a factor? Have you even watched them play? They don't run plays.

[christian1923]

Do you really think coaching isn't a factor? Have you even watched them play? They don't run plays.

basically! its terrible to watch. i cant even explain what they are trying to do out there lol

[NuggetsFan]

Do you really think coaching isn't a factor? Have you even watched them play? They don't run plays.

Oh I'm sure coaching is a big part of the problem. Coaching is part of a problem with every team in a way tho. Rotations, not properly utilizing players on the roster. It happens.

NY's problems? Yeah I'm sure they'd be alot better with a structured offense. Still, Mike D is a scapegoat. Just like with the Avalanche I use Joe Sacco as the scapegoat.

Melo shoots 7-21 and it's like "**** we lost, fire Mike D". Reality is your lack of depth, guy's player like shit plays just as much of a factor as your awful coaching does. I've seen Melo excel in multiple situations so honestly believe right now he's just having some tough games, missing shots and it's hurting NY. Mike D or no Mike D that probably happens.

Coaching is an issue. Isn't the only one. Isn't the sole reason your 6-9.

[Blue&Orange]

Your right. There 6-9 because of Mike D and only Mike D. Melo's the most versatile offensive player in the game IMO and seen him for 7+ years have success in any offense ran for him but yup Mike D is the reason he's shooting like 40% for the season.

Not saying coaching isn't an issue, it obviously is. 6-9? That's on the coaches and players and GM's for giving NY the talent pool they have.

Edit. Just one example, Melo goes through alot of shooting slumps. In NY there's not lots of depth to make up for that. In Denver? He had Iverson, Billups, Lawson, AA, Nene, Camby etc. list goes on of guy's who'd step up from one game to another and relieve the pressure. Melo shot like what? 42% in the conference finals that one year yet Denver took L.A to a close 6 game series.

Amare?

Go check how many threes Melo taken with the Nuggets and with the Knicks last season, do the same for free throws, then do the same for Gallo.

Like i said in other threads, Mike puts Melo playing as a "point forward" and then cries about ball movement, amazing, he also cry constantly about the lack of offensive flow, but is incapable to draw a couple of plays that the Knicks can use to face that lack of flow and rebuild some flow.

D'Antoni is turrible, just turrible, he can thank Steve Nash for his contract.

[Sarcastic]

Oh I'm sure coaching is a big part of the problem. Coaching is part of a problem with every team in a way tho. Rotations, not properly utilizing players on the roster. It happens.

NY's problems? Yeah I'm sure they'd be alot better with a structured offense. Still, Mike D is a scapegoat. Just like with the Avalanche I use Joe Sacco as the scapegoat.

Melo shoots 7-21 and it's like "**** we lost, fire Mike D". Reality is your lack of depth, guy's player like shit plays just as much of a factor as your awful coaching does. I've seen Melo excel in multiple situations so honestly believe right now he's just having some tough games, missing shots and it's hurting NY. Mike D or no Mike D that probably happens.

Coaching is an issue. Isn't the only one. Isn't the sole reason your 6-9.

I think we have been down by double digits in every single game this year, or close to it. Even the blowouts. He doesn't even call timeouts to stop a run. He only plays players that can shoot threes. Renaldo Balkman has actually been ok when he has gotten minutes. He has a PER of 16.8, but only plays 10 minutes per game and has only played in 8 of them. Bill Walker gets 20 minutes per game, has played in all of them, and has a PER of 8.6. We lack size, but he would rather give minutes to the shooter than the big man. Guess why?

[Blue&Orange]

He doesn't even call timeouts to stop a run.
He does, when it gets to 15-2, and only if losing by more than 10 by then.

[NuggetsFan]

Amare?

Go check how many threes Melo taken with the Nuggets and with the Knicks last season, do the same for free throws, then do the same for Gallo.

Like i said in other threads, Mike puts Melo playing as a "point forward" and then cries about ball movement, amazing, he also cry constantly about the lack of offensive flow, but is incapable to draw a couple of plays that the Knicks can use to face that lack of flow and rebuild some flow.

D'Antoni is turrible, just turrible, he can thank Steve Nash for his contract.

Melo as a point forward? Isn't that what New York fans were crying for? It's what George Karl got ripped on here in Denver for. Melo showed the ability to be a secondary ball handler. Never really was given the role in Denver. Knicks don't have one or two guy's that should be ahead of him, because of that he's clearly been forced into getting others involved witch has made him struggle shooting the ball. That's depth, not coaching. Mike D is going to be like what? Melo post up and let Douglas handle the rock and be that guy, like George Karl did but except with guy's like 'Dre, Billups, Iverson etc.

Basketball is a team sport. A sport witch in the end comes down to making your shots and stopping other shots. Mike D isn't winning a ring, I think we'd all agree with that. Same time all his regular season success isn't attributed to Steve Nash. He had talent in PHX and he won alot of games. He has 3-4 players in NY and no depth. He's part of the problem, but he's not the only problem. Only thing I'm saying ... Mike D = problem ... just not the only problem. He isn't soley 6-9. You put him as the coach in Denver and there not 6-9 right now, that's it.

I understand the scapegoat tho. Like I said Joe Sacco = My Mike D.

[NuggetsFan]

I think we have been down by double digits in every single game this year, or close to it. Even the blowouts. He doesn't even call timeouts to stop a run. He only plays players that can shoot threes. Renaldo Balkman has actually been ok when he has gotten minutes. He has a PER of 16.8, but only plays 10 minutes per game and has only played in 8 of them. Bill Walker gets 20 minutes per game, has played in all of them, and has a PER of 8.6. We lack size, but he would rather give minutes to the shooter than the big man. Guess why?

lol you prove my entire point. Renaldo Balkman? We seriously trying to say not playing him is a massive negative for a coach. George Karl didn't play him either.

News flash. On any half decent team, Balkman ain't playing meaningfull minutes.

[Sarcastic]

lol you prove my entire point. Renaldo Balkman? We seriously trying to say not playing him is a massive negative for a coach. George Karl didn't play him either.

News flash. On any half decent team, Balkman ain't playing meaningfull minutes.

He's better than Bill Walker.

[Scoooter]

They both suck.

[Blue&Orange]

He's part of the problem, but he's not the only problem. Only thing I'm saying ... Mike D = problem ... just not the only problem. He isn't soley 6-9. You put him as the coach in Denver and there not 6-9 right now, that's it.

Agree 100%, he is not the only problem, but he is a easy fixing problem, and probably at this point the worst one. Seeing someone like say Scott Skiles on the Knicks bench would give me a boner.


Renaldo Balkman? We seriously trying to say not playing him is a massive negative for a coach. George Karl didn't play him either.

News flash. On any half decent team, Balkman ain't playing meaningfull minutes.
Again agree 100%, but have you seen how Walker is playing? And how Blakman played in the minutes giving?

George Karl plays Mozgov, D'Antoni with a team in dire need of a center, unlike the Nuggets, didn't playing him, not even a minute, then when everybody else is injured, Mozgov plays and goes for 24\15 or similar, and within two games is completely out of rotation. I repeat this is the Knicks last year, no decent bigs, no Nene, no bird man.

[Thescore53]

I claimed they tank so they could face the bulls because they were 2-0. We all knew what happened to celtics a season ago when they were coasting. So the knicks thought that celtics might be doing it again after the perkins trade. So its better to face the bulls than the tricky celtics. In that way, they would be facing an easier opponent, amare can relax and thus minimizing the risk of injury and they would have a better draft pick. But I think they realize that celtics struggle is legit when they lost to the bulls and heat. Plus the hate for melo is growing, they decided to win the remaining games, thus the winning streak.

You are so ****ing stupid.

[Human Error]

Why do people think STAT or Melo are not capable of doing that?
No. They can't. You view them as legitimate upper echelon superstars but the reality is only they are pseudo-superstars who just aren't as good as LeBron / Dwight / Wade / Durant. If you expect Amare and Carmelo to lead the team deep into the playoffs you will get disappointed.

[NuggetsFan]

Agree 100%, he is not the only problem, but he is a easy fixing problem, and probably at this point the worst one. Seeing someone like say Scott Skiles on the Knicks bench would give me a boner.


Again agree 100%, but have you seen how Walker is playing? And how Blakman played in the minutes giving?

George Karl plays Mozgov, D'Antoni with a team in dire need of a center, unlike the Nuggets, didn't playing him, not even a minute, then when everybody else is injured, Mozgov plays and goes for 24\15 or similar, and within two games is completely out of rotation. I repeat this is the Knicks last year, no decent bigs, no Nene, no bird man.

I can agree fully 100% Mike D is a problem, just not the only problem or the problem some Knick fans make him out to be. Rotation? Find me one fan of a team who loves his coaches rotation. Karl plays Mosgov but when Nene is playing and not out Koufus doesn't get minutes. Faried? Doesn't get burn when Birdman does and in road games that's bad.

Walker playing over Balkman is 100% understandable IMO. Walker can shoot, when you can shoot it means you can play in a halfcourt offense. Balkman is useless on offense. He can play some defense, finish breaks but besides that he's nothing. When your the Knicks and your already playing somebody like a Jefferies among the other role players I can see why Balkman get's to ride the pine.

[Sarcastic]

We have one of the biggest teams in the NBA, with a top line front court (supposedly), yet we are relegated to shooting jump shots from 15+ every game. Why is he not designing plays at attacking the rim? Our shortest starter is 6'5", and none are good shooters but all are good slashers.

[NuggetsFan]

We have one of the biggest teams in the NBA, with a top line front court (supposedly), yet we are relegated to shooting jump shots from 15+ every game. Why is he not designing plays at attacking the rim? Our shortest starter is 6'5", and none are good shooters but all are good slashers.

Tyson can't create by himself very much. He's camped by the rim usually looking for easy dishes, putbacks, offensive boards. Melo can play anywhere do anything but on a team like the Knicks I can see why he's on the perimeter so much. Amare downlow or on the wing playing his faceup game takes away from Melo's inside game in terms of posting up.

Shumpert can drive I guess but dude's just not ready for the role the Knicks are trying to give him. He's not a starting 2 guard right now. PG's don't get great penetration and can't make everybody else's life easier.

Knicks are a solid team, they'll turn it on. IMO they'll finish right up there. They'll just do it on talent alone, with Melo\Amare getting there shit together averaging 24+ each and not doing it as inefficiently as they have been thus far.

[Sarcastic]

I can agree fully 100% Mike D is a problem, just not the only problem or the problem some Knick fans make him out to be. Rotation? Find me one fan of a team who loves his coaches rotation. Karl plays Mosgov but when Nene is playing and not out Koufus doesn't get minutes. Faried? Doesn't get burn when Birdman does and in road games that's bad.

Walker playing over Balkman is 100% understandable IMO. Walker can shoot, when you can shoot it means you can play in a halfcourt offense. Balkman is useless on offense. He can play some defense, finish breaks but besides that he's nothing. When your the Knicks and your already playing somebody like a Jefferies among the other role players I can see why Balkman get's to ride the pine.

Walker takes about 4 shots per game, and with 3 of them coming from the 3 point line. He is shooting 43% from the field overall, and 30% from three point range. The only way he is getting his percent over 40% is that he is hitting most of his 2 pointers.

If you read his draft profile, he was a great and explosive slasher, not a shooter. Why is his only role now to shoot 3 pointers?

[ZenMaster]

Why was the other tread deleted?

Anyways, I'd rather have Felton, Gallo, Chandler and Mozgov than Melo.

Melo is a great player for the fans, not so much for a team. He's a 1on1 ISO player who's mainly good at scoring.

Add Tyson Chandler to last years team instead of Turiaf and they're better than the team now.

[NuggetsFan]

Walker takes about 4 shots per game, and with 3 of them coming from the 3 point line. He is shooting 43% from the field overall, and 30% from three point range. The only way he is getting his percent over 40% is that he is hitting most of his 2 pointers.

If you read his draft profile, he was a great and explosive slasher, not a shooter. Why is his only role now to shoot 3 pointers?

I would assume it's what he worked on. NBA players aren't stupid. If your a solid 3 point shooter and put the effort in to defend than you'll always have a spot. A guy like Bill Walker never had the ability to be a starter on a team based on his overall basketball skill. As you Knick fans have seen.

However. He hit 1.9 3's at 43% one year, 1 at 38% another year, this year he's down to little under 1 at at 30% as you said. Still early, lockout I'd guess that 3 pointer comes alive a little more. Gallo and AA were shooting the 3 awful for the first little bit.

Walker keeps a defense honest tho. Balkman doesn't. You can roam when Balkaman is on the floor. Send more pressure to Melo\Amare. When your the Knicks and already have a few guy's in your rotation that allows you to do that against them than it makes sense. Walker you atleast can't leave completely open on the perimeter.

Walker getting more minutes than Balkman is something I'd say Mike D actually did right. Witch is exactly my point. He's being a bad coach but Knick fans are using him as a scapegoat just like your doing right now for EVERYTHING. Something witch IMO is correct and trivial like Walker\Balkman.

[ZenMaster]

Walker takes about 4 shots per game, and with 3 of them coming from the 3 point line. He is shooting 43% from the field overall, and 30% from three point range. The only way he is getting his percent over 40% is that he is hitting most of his 2 pointers.

If you read his draft profile, he was a great and explosive slasher, not a shooter. Why is his only role now to shoot 3 pointers?

Pretty sure he blew up his knee and lost most of his athleticism.

[Blue&Orange]

I can agree fully 100% Mike D is a problem, just not the only problem or the problem some Knick fans make him out to be.

D'Antoni as a Knicks coach can be resumed to this, Knicks shoot well from 3 point land they win, they don't shoot well from 3 point land, they lose. That's it, there's nothing else... that's why this year when the Knicks were blowing the Kings and i said in the gamethread that the Knick would be a .500 team again, because again, there was nothing else.

Now that the Knicks stopped running and are playing mostly half-court offense, Pringles is being exposed... and it's ugly.

[Sarcastic]

Pretty sure he blew up his knee and lost most of his athleticism.

That doesn't mean he is a good shooter. He is actually still effective going towards the basket.

[Sarcastic]

I would assume it's what he worked on. NBA players aren't stupid. If your a solid 3 point shooter and put the effort in to defend than you'll always have a spot. A guy like Bill Walker never had the ability to be a starter on a team based on his overall basketball skill. As you Knick fans have seen.

However. He hit 1.9 3's at 43% one year, 1 at 38% another year, this year he's down to little under 1 at at 30% as you said. Still early, lockout I'd guess that 3 pointer comes alive a little more. Gallo and AA were shooting the 3 awful for the first little bit.

Walker keeps a defense honest tho. Balkman doesn't. You can roam when Balkaman is on the floor. Send more pressure to Melo\Amare. When your the Knicks and already have a few guy's in your rotation that allows you to do that against them than it makes sense. Walker you atleast can't leave completely open on the perimeter.

Walker getting more minutes than Balkman is something I'd say Mike D actually did right. Witch is exactly my point. He's being a bad coach but Knick fans are using him as a scapegoat just like your doing right now for EVERYTHING. Something witch IMO is correct and trivial like Walker\Balkman.

I will make an avy bet with you that this team turns it around when Mike DaPhoney is fired.

[Scoooter]

Did anyone watch the Milwaukee feed (that's what League-Pass was giving me)? Whoever calls Bucks games were all over Melo. Talking about how his offense kills teams, and no one likes playing with a guy like that. They weren't calling him a jerk or anything like that and acknowledged his individual talents, but it still seemed a little more direct than I'm used to hearing.

[Scoooter]

That doesn't mean he is a good shooter. He is actually still effective going towards the basket.
When did he hurt his knee? Was it three years ago? He threw down some big dunks last year.

[RoseCity07]

The Knicks keep thinking they can buy a superstars and it's going to work. Two guys that play no defense and fight over who shoots is not going to work.

Getting Lebron was their only hope.

[NuggetsFan]

I will make an avy bet with you that this team turns it around when Mike DaPhoney is fired.

What the **** is that even saying? I will make you an avy bet that regardless of the coach this isn't a 6-9 team. Melo ain't going to shoot 41% or 42% the whole year. Amare won't be that inefficient for 66 games.

[ZenMaster]

That doesn't mean he is a good shooter. He is actually still effective going towards the basket.

No but it means he has to find something else to rely on other than taking it to the basket.

[Blue&Orange]

Walker getting more minutes than Balkman is something I'd say Mike D actually did right. Witch is exactly my point. He's being a bad coach but Knick fans are using him as a scapegoat just like your doing right now for EVERYTHING. Something witch IMO is correct and trivial like Walker\Balkman.
Walker this year, passed the ball to a teammate with 2 seconds or less on the clock, for at least 4 times already. He looks half retarded out there. Download the Knicks games, and check yourself how awful he has been.

[Sarcastic]

What the **** is that even saying? I will make you an avy bet that regardless of the coach this isn't a 6-9 team. Melo ain't going to shoot 41% or 42% the whole year. Amare won't be that inefficient for 66 games.

They will continue to be bad as long as the coach is there. The schedule only gets harder, which is in your favor.

[Sarcastic]

No but it means he has to find something else to rely on other than taking it to the basket.

So no mid range? 3 pointer or dunk is the only way?

[Rowe]

What the **** is that even saying? I will make you an avy bet that regardless of the coach this isn't a 6-9 team. Melo ain't going to shoot 41% or 42% the whole year. Amare won't be that inefficient for 66 games.
Thanks for your support.

[longtime lurker]

The Knicks keep thinking they can buy a superstars and it's going to work. Two guys that play no defense and fight over who shoots is not going to work.

Getting Lebron was their only hope.

Blame the coach. There has to be accountability somewhere

[Rowe]

The Knicks keep thinking they can buy a superstars and it's going to work. Two guys that play no defense and fight over who shoots is not going to work.

Getting Lebron was their only hope.
Neither guy fights over the ball.

Its been firmly established that Melo is the #1 option.

The issue is how can Amare contribute without a PG who can get him the ball when he rolls to the basket. Until then he's looking Boozer-esque in terms of getting the ball 10+ feet out and not having any other choice to contribute but to jack up a bad jumper.

[Rowe]

Walker this year, passed the ball to a teammate with 2 seconds or less on the clock, for at least 4 times already. He looks half retarded out there. Download the Knicks games, and check yourself how awful he has been.

The sad part is he has lost all sort of willingness to get to the basket like he once used to be known for.

He looks out of shape and willing to settle for 3's far too much.

[Rowe]

Did anyone watch the Milwaukee feed (that's what League-Pass was giving me)? Whoever calls Bucks games were all over Melo. Talking about how his offense kills teams, and no one likes playing with a guy like that. They weren't calling him a jerk or anything like that and acknowledged his individual talents, but it still seemed a little more direct than I'm used to hearing.
The people who call Bucks games have no room to talk when they have the least efficient offensive team in the NBA on the floor.

Players dont want to play with Melo, yet they enjoy the exploits of Brandon Marbury?

[HurricaneKid]

This team is built for TV Ratings and not to win. Certainly not to win a title. They may very well get better but they aren't in the same galaxy as Chicago or Miami.

[Scoooter]

The people who call Bucks games have no room to talk when they have the least efficient offensive team in the NBA on the floor.

Players dont want to play with Melo, yet they enjoy the exploits of Brandon Marbury?
:confusedshrug:

[ZenMaster]

So no mid range? 3 pointer or dunk is the only way?

Mostly for players like him yeah. Role players who are mainly spot up shooters from mid-range tend to not make it in the league because they don't space the floor on offense.

[Scoooter]

The mid-range jumper is kind of a lost art for perimeter players. So much emphasis is on spacing the floor with a three or drawing a foul.

[HurricaneKid]

The people who call Bucks games have no room to talk when they have the least efficient offensive team in the NBA on the floor.

Players dont want to play with Melo, yet they enjoy the exploits of Brandon Marbury?

Its true. The ball stops when it gets to Melo. He is a premier ISO player. Too bad that ISO plays are ineffcient and inherently exclude the rest of the team. Besides, that inefficient Bucks team hadn't won a game on the road all season (0-8) and almost set both a season high in points and a season low in points allowed.

As for the original question, it was a terrible trade. If the Knicks hadn't given away the farm to get him (unnecessarily) they would have a few more pieces around Melo and Amare. Its not that it was a terribly unfair trade. Its that they had all the leverage and needlessly gave away far more than they needed to. I truly do not believe Melo would have gone to the Nets. So NYK could have just waited until the offseason and had some other nice pieces to go with their big 2.

[ZenMaster]

The people who call Bucks games have no room to talk when they have the least efficient offensive team in the NBA on the floor.

Players dont want to play with Melo, yet they enjoy the exploits of Brandon Marbury?

So Bucks commentators are now accountable for what players are on their team? And the abilites of the players they "have themselves" decides how they can talk about other teams and players?

[Rowe]

So Bucks commentators are now accountable for what players are on their team? And the abilites of the players they "have themselves" decides how they can talk about other teams and players?
They didnt say shit when The Big Dog lead them to their most relevant season since they were wearing plaid suits and singing tunes from Prince.:oldlol:

Everyone compares Melo to Big Dog based on their style of play, but now hes suddenly a guy who cant be successful and his teammates dont like playing with him? I dont get it.

[ZenMaster]

They didnt say shit when The Big Dog lead them to their most relevant season since they were wearing plaid suits and singing tunes from Prince.:oldlol:

Everyone compares Melo to Big Dog based on their style of play, but now hes suddenly a guy who cant be successful and his teammates dont like playing with him? I dont get it.

I don't think it's in the best interest of Bucks commentators to talk shit about their own players on air, all things considered, they have a product to sell.

[Rowe]

Its true. The ball stops when it gets to Melo. He is a premier ISO player. Too bad that ISO plays are ineffcient and inherently exclude the rest of the team. Besides, that inefficient Bucks team hadn't won a game on the road all season (0-8) and almost set both a season high in points and a season low in points allowed.

As for the original question, it was a terrible trade. If the Knicks hadn't given away the farm to get him (unnecessarily) they would have a few more pieces around Melo and Amare. Its not that it was a terribly unfair trade. Its that they had all the leverage and needlessly gave away far more than they needed to. I truly do not believe Melo would have gone to the Nets. So NYK could have just waited until the offseason and had some other nice pieces to go with their big 2.

Melo would've gone to the Nets.

Its not about winning, it was New York.

[Rowe]

I don't think it's in the best interest of Bucks commentators to talk shit about their own players on air, all things considered, they have a product to sell.

Well nobody would notice since the Bucks average a higher attendance than TV viewership.(srs)

[ZenMaster]

Well nobody would notice since the Bucks average a higher attendance than TV viewership.(srs)

Would that be a valid argument for the comentators when called up to management for an explanation?

[HurricaneKid]

Melo would've gone to the Nets.


Totally disagree.

[Rowe]

Would that be a valid argument for the comentators when called up to management for an explanation?
Not when Stephen Jackson and 2 unidentified men are holding John Hammond hostage until he gives him a 3 year extension.

[HurricaneKid]

Not when Stephen Jackson and 2 unidentified men are holding John Hammond hostage until he gives him a 3 year extension.

Hammond could be dangled off a 14th floor balcony before he extended SJax at 9M. They only reason they took on his deal as it was a way to dump Salmons increasingly poor deal.

[ZenMaster]

Not when Stephen Jackson and 2 unidentified men are holding John Hammond hostage until he gives him a 3 year extension.

You'd be better off thinking about what they said, instead of thinking about what "right" they had to say it.

[Sarcastic]

Totally disagree.

He explicitly said he would, because of the uncertainty of the lockout.

[Rowe]

Totally disagree.
The deal was agreed to on both sides.

No way Prokorov would've pulled out even if Melo didn't sign an extension at the moment because he had gotten too far in negotiations to leave empty handed.

They're lucky Kevin O'Connor had a panic attack and moved Deron immediately after seeing the Melo deal to the Knicks or the Nets would be ****ed pre-Brooklyn arrival.

[Scoooter]

Then **** him. He can ball-hog and lose games in Brooklyn.

[Rowe]

You'd be better off thinking about what they said, instead of thinking about what "right" they had to say it.
I personally dont care what they said because they're going to the Lottery and we're going to the Playoffs. I was simply attempting to add some comedic value to my lack of care for their statement about Melo.

That is all.

[HurricaneKid]

The deal was agreed to on both sides.

No way Prokorov would've pulled out even if Melo didn't sign an extension at the moment because he had gotten too far in negotiations to leave empty handed.

They're lucky Kevin O'Connor had a panic attack and moved Deron immediately after seeing the Melo deal to the Knicks or the Nets would be ****ed pre-Brooklyn arrival.

The deal was agreed to for 5+ days. You know what that means? There was no deal. Or it would have been done. The Nets didn't want a 3 month rental and didn't want to give the franchise away for someone who had privately told them he wouldn't sign the extension.

[Rowe]

Then **** him. He can ball-hog and lose games in Brooklyn.
Too bad. Too sad.

:lol

[Scoooter]

Too bad. Too sad.

:lol
Now he's doing it for the Knicks. :mad:

Seriously though, that's what they should have said to him. Call his bluff and get him in the off season for cheaper. If not, then you still have all that cap space and all those trade pieces. No loss. The Denver FO made Dolan look like a chump - not that he needed any help.

[Rowe]

The deal was agreed to for 5+ days. You know what that means? There was no deal. Or it would have been done. The Nets didn't want a 3 month rental and didn't want to give the franchise away for someone who had privately told them he wouldn't sign the extension.
Not true.

There was no "No Trade Clause" to be waived for Melo.

Nets didnt sign off on the deal at the moment but would've done the deal had the Knicks not stepped in and upped their offer before they had time to weigh their options. If the Knicks weren't around for leverage, Melo would've took his extension simply because he wanted to go to New York and be financially secure with a lockout looming.

Melo was never going to be a "rental".
He wanted an extension regardless of going to NY or NJ.

[Rowe]

Now he's doing it for the Knicks. :mad:

Seriously though, that's what they should have said to him. Call his bluff and get him in the off season for cheaper. If not, then you still have all that cap space and all those trade pieces. No loss. The Denver FO made Dolan look like a chump - not that he needed any help.
Wouldn't be worth the risk of going across the bridge on a team which would've become far more attractive to Free Agents than the Knicks.

Who wanted to play with Amare? Oh wait, Melo did.

Secondly, the Cap Space wouldn't have mattered considering the crop of Free Agents not named Melo in 2012. Just means somebody would've gotten overpaid in the mis-guided hope we'd have a Title Contender built around Amare. Im guessing $8 Million to Wilson Chandler and $14 Million to Tyson Chandler. :cheers:

Denver's FO only has Gallo & Mozgov to show for Melo.

They flipped Felton for Andre Miller & Jordan Hamilton(whos in the D-League).
Chandler will return for 2 months and bounce in Free Agency.

[Scoooter]

Or maybe the Jazz trade us Deron Williams like they did with the Nets. Then You've got the D-Will/Amar'e PnR, and a better team.

[magnax1]

They should regret the Amare signing. The guy brings nothing other then 20+ points for 17 million. At least Carmelo can pass and rebound a little, and more importantly he's the best scorer in the game. Actually they should regret everything other then the Melo signing. Amare and Chandler are really going to kill that team in the long run if they can't unload them.

[Rowe]

Or maybe the Jazz trade us Deron Williams like they did with the Nets. Then You've got the D-Will/Amar'e PnR, and a better team.
Jazz wouldn't have moved Deron had Melo not gone to the Knicks.

Nets came with a package they couldn't refuse, because the Nets could've given them even more if necessary.

We'd have been lucky to get Kevin O'Connor(Jazz GM) to stay on the phone after he heard Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, & Eddy Curry for their Franchise player.

[Scoooter]

Jazz wouldn't have moved Deron had Melo not gone to the Knicks.

Nets came with a package they couldn't refuse.

We'd have been lucky to get O'Connor to stay on the phone after he heard Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, & Eddy Curry for their Franchise player.
Speculation. :confusedshrug:

[Rowe]

They should regret the Amare signing. The guy brings nothing other then 20+ points for 17 million. At least Carmelo can pass and rebound a little, and more importantly he's the best scorer in the game. Actually they should regret everything other then the Melo signing. Amare and Chandler are really going to kill that team in the long run if they can't unload them.
Actually $100 Million in all until hes 34.

[Rowe]

Speculation. :confusedshrug:
Not really.

Deron was unavailable until the Melo trade was done.

You seem to forget our package from Day 1 involved Eddy Curry's expirer to go along with Chandler or Gallo. Denver made us give up both. That aint getting a deal done for any "superstar" and in fact it wasn't in the end when they made us include Felton & Mozgov.

[Scoooter]

Not really.

Deron was unavailable until the Melo trade was done.

You seem to forget our package from Day 1 involved Eddy Curry's expirer to go along with Chandler or Gallo. Denver made us give up both.
And if we hadn't dealt with Denver we still would have had them...

Just proving the point that Denver raped us in that deal.

[ZenMaster]

Jazz wouldn't have moved Deron had Melo not gone to the Knicks.

Nets came with a package they couldn't refuse, because the Nets could've given them even more if necessary.

We'd have been lucky to get Kevin O'Connor(Jazz GM) to stay on the phone after he heard Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, & Eddy Curry for their Franchise player.


Hmm I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the Jazz where offering Williams to whatever of the two teams that didn't get Melo.

[HurricaneKid]

Not true.

There was no "No Trade Clause" to be waived for Melo.

Nets didnt sign off on the deal at the moment but would've done the deal had the Knicks not stepped in and upped their offer before they had time to weigh their options. If the Knicks weren't around for leverage, Melo would've took his extension simply because he wanted to go to New York and be financially secure with a lockout looming.

Melo was never going to be a "rental".
He wanted an extension regardless of going to NY or NJ.

Now you are just making sh!t up.

[I]that would result in

[Scoooter]

If I recall correctly, the D-Will deal had as much to do with soured locker room relations as anything else. They wanted him gone for his part in pushing Sloan out of town.

[no pun intended]

Should've got Deron Williams...

[Rowe]

Hmm I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the Jazz where offering Williams to whatever of the two teams that didn't get Melo.
Go find that article.

Deron wasnt available until Melo forced his way out.

Do you need me to put up Kevin O'Connor's quote on how the Nets had an offer he couldn't refuse?

[Rowe]

If I recall correctly, the D-Will deal had as much to do with soured locker room relations as anything else. They wanted him gone for his part in pushing Sloan out of town.
Fans did. Not management, considering Sloan resigned because O'Connor sided with Deron as far as their last blow-up.

[Scoooter]

Go find that article.

Deron wasnt available until Melo forced his way out.

Do you need me to put up Kevin O'Connor's quote on how the Nets had an offer he couldn't refuse?
But what does it matter that he forced his way out to the Knicks? Are you seriously contending that the Jazz wouldn't have dealt with the Knicks if Melo had gone to the Nets? They would have gotten a better deal elsewhere?

[Scoooter]

Fans did. Not management, considering Sloan resigned because O'Connor sided with Deron as far as their last blow-up.
Well, they got rid of him anyway. That's the important part.

[Sarcastic]

The Jazz were in no rush to trade Deron for the Knicks package. They would've held onto him for another year.

[Rowe]

[QUOTE=HurricaneKid]Now you are just making sh!t up.

[I]that would result in

[ZenMaster]

Go find that article.

Deron wasnt available until Melo forced his way out.

Do you need me to put up Kevin O'Connor's quote on how the Nets had an offer he couldn't refuse?


I read that they would have given him for either the Nets or the Knicks package that was offered to Denver, either one. I don't think they shopped him openly, but I remember Walsh saying he didn't sniff it out that Deron was available.

You couldn't refuse either package because both Prokhorov and Dolan offered up everything they had.

[Scoooter]

The Jazz were in no rush to trade Deron for the Knicks package. They would've held onto him for another year.
That seems like a stretch.

[magnax1]

Actually $100 Million in all until hes 34.
Well I just meant for the year, but yeah it's just an altogether awful contract. They might still have a shot at unloading it to a dumb team, but sadly it seems more like NY is the dumb team.

[Rowe]

But what does it matter that he forced his way out to the Knicks?
Because it scared their GM and showed him the power of the player.

Remember, O'Connor had just watched 4 "stars" change teams in the offseason to go to bigger markets including Boozer from his own team.



Are you seriously contending that the Jazz wouldn't have dealt with the Knicks if Melo had gone to the Nets?
Because Utah who already had Andrei Kirilenko, Gordan Hayward(2010 1st Rd Pick), & CJ Miles at SF would be interested in Chandler & Gallo?

Those were our "assets". We had no picks nor anything else to offer.








They would have gotten a better deal elsewhere?
If they wanted to deal Deron - Yes

Would they be in a hurry to deal a player with another season left on his contract? No

[Sarcastic]

That seems like a stretch.

They controlled him for another year. Why would they be pressured to trade him a year before his contract was up?

[Rowe]

I read that they would have given him for either the Nets or the Knicks package that was offered to Denver, either one. I don't think they shopped him openly, but I remember Walsh saying he didn't sniff it out that Deron was available.

You couldn't refuse either package because both Prokhorov and Dolan offered up everything they had.

Prokorov had Devin Harris, Derrick Favors(19 yr old #3 Pick), & 4 1st Rounders.

Dolan initially wanted to move no more than 1 of Gallo, Chandler, & Fields until Denver pushed him to move both. What else did we have? Eddy Curry's expirer, Felton, Timofey Mozgov, & Anthony Randolph who's trade value dipped with D'Antoni not playing him.

I'll take the Russian's deal anytime of the week.

[Scoooter]

Because it scared their GM and showed him the power of the player.

Remember, O'Connor had just watched 4 "stars" change teams in the offseason to go to bigger markets including Boozer from his own team.
Yeah, you missed the point. The effect would have been exactly the same had he forced his way to the Nets. He's still forcing his way somewhere.


Because Utah who already had Andrei Kirilenko, Gordan Hayward(2010 1st Rd Pick), & CJ Miles at SF would be interested in Chandler & Gallo?

Those were our "assets". We had no picks nor anything else to offer.
Curry's expirer too. Basically whatever we gave to Denver. Maybe a little less. They weren't going to get any better offers, and their only other option was to hang on to him. In which case the Knicks still have options.


If they wanted to deal Deron - Yes

Would they be in a hurry to deal a player with another season left on his contract? No
Well, they obviously were though, because they did. :hammerhead:

[Scoooter]

I'll take the Russian's deal anytime of the week.
Unless it's not available, because he gave it all up for Melo.

[Scoooter]

They controlled him for another year. Why would they be pressured to trade him a year before his contract was up?
Because they didn't want him there? Isn't that why he's gone?

[Rowe]

Yeah, you missed the point. The effect would have been exactly the same had he forced his way to the Nets. He's still forcing his way somewhere.
Melo to the Knicks created a "Super Team".

Melo to the Nets created a "Melo Show".




Curry's expirer too. Basically whatever we gave to Denver. Maybe a little less. They weren't going to get any better offers, and their only other option was to hang on to him. In which case the Knicks still have options.
:oldlol:

Nobody wanted what we gave to Denver, except Denver.





Well, they obviously were though, because they did. :hammerhead:
Because Melo went to the Knicks and the Nets came calling.

The inverse wouldn't have occured.

[Sarcastic]

They traded Deron early because the Nets made an offer they couldn't refuse.

[Rowe]

Because they didn't want him there? Isn't that why he's gone?
Hes gone because New Jersey had an offer they couldn't refuse as far as rebuilding with Favors' potential, & 2 Lottery Picks.

Im certain they would've been falling over themselves to get their hands on Gallo or Chandler.:rolleyes:

[Scoooter]

Melo to the Knicks created a "Super Team".

Melo to the Nets created a "Melo Show".
Some Super Team. The Melo Show in NY is getting it's ass handed to it by any and all comers. Saying stuff like that makes it hard to take you seriously.


:oldlol:

Nobody wanted what we gave to Denver, except Denver.
Well, they got it, and they're rolling with it. Smart people they've got in Denver.



Because Melo went to the Knicks and the Nets came calling.

The inverse wouldn't have occured.
This statement is just based on nothing. :confusedshrug:

[Scoooter]

Hes gone because New Jersey had an offer they couldn't refuse as far as rebuilding with Favors' potential, & 2 Lottery Picks.

Im certain they would've been falling over themselves to get their hands on Gallo or Chandler.:rolleyes:
You keep saying that.

[Rowe]

Unless it's not available, because he gave it all up for Melo.
Then you have no reason to trade Deron to the Knicks just to make Knicks fans happy.

Why the hell would you trade Deron for Raymond Felton, Gallo, Chandler, Mozgov, & Eddy Curry's expirer? :confusedshrug:

Remember Felton & Mozgov were added simply so they could include Billups.

Jazz dont get back any High Upside players
Jazz dont get back any Draft Picks to help Rebuild
Jazz dont get back anyone at a Position of Need

[Rowe]

You keep saying that.
Because I'm right.

You're the only one saying me & Sarc are wrong.

[Scoooter]

Then you have no reason to trade Deron to the Knicks just to make their fans happy.

Why the hell would you trade Deron for Raymond Felton, Gallo, Chandler, Mozgov, & Eddy Curry's expirer?

Remember Felton & Mozgov were added simply so they could include Billups.
At the time it seemed like Deron and management were disgruntled with one another. That trade surprised a lot of people.

[Scoooter]

Because I'm right.

You're the only one saying me & Sarc are wrong.
Well, duh, I'm the only one still in this thread.

[Rowe]

At the time it seemed like Deron and management were disgruntled with one another. That trade surprised a lot of people.
Including Deron, who was in the weight room at the hotel when he saw it flash as Breaking News on ESPN. (srs)

[Scoooter]

Including Deron, who was in the weight room at the hotel when he saw it flash as Breaking News on ESPN. (srs)
Wow. Management definitely wanted him gone pronto. Knicks definitely had a shot if that's the case.

[Sarcastic]

The Nets were desperate. They gave up the farm for a player who didn't even guarantee to extend the contract. What makes you think Deron would sign the extension with the Knicks?

[Scoooter]

The Nets were desperate. They gave up the farm for a player who didn't even guarantee to extend the contract. What makes you think Deron would sign the extension with the Knicks?
Nothing's guaranteed, obviously. Including success. You take your shots. :confusedshrug:

The Knicks have a great city, a great fanbase, and he'd have an All-NBA team mate who compliments his game perfectly in a PG friendly system. Why wouldn't he resign?

[Sarcastic]

Nothing's guaranteed, obviously. Including success. You take your shots. :confusedshrug:

So you are ok with the Knicks trading all our assets for someone who might bail? Seems dumb to me.

[Scoooter]

So you are ok with the Knicks trading all our assets for someone who might bail? Seems dumb to me.
Dumb, unfortunately, is the Knicks' milieu. Exhibit A, the Melo trade.

[Sarcastic]

Dumb, unfortunately, is the Knicks' milieu. Exhibit A, the Melo trade.

At least he extended the contract. He has been to the playoffs every year of his career too. He is regarded as an elite player by most people. It's only under Dantoni that he is losing games. He has won at every level of his career, including a title in his 1 year of college.

[Scoooter]

At least he extended the contract. He has been to the playoffs every year of his career too. He is regarded as an elite player by most people. It's only under Dantoni that he is losing games. He has won at every level of his career, including a title in his 1 year of college.
We would have been a playoff team without him. I thought the bar was higher at this point in his career. Oh well. :confusedshrug:

[Sarcastic]

We would have been a playoff team without him. I thought the bar was higher at this point in his career. Oh well. :confusedshrug:

How do you know? We were trending down before the trade. We could have fallen out of the playoffs very easily.

[Scoooter]

How do you know? We were trending down before the trade. We could have fallen out of the playoffs very easily.
Or we could have rallied and maybe even not gotten swept. Speculation. :confusedshrug:

[Sarcastic]

Or we could have rallied and maybe even not gotten swept. Speculation. :confusedshrug:

I think Hunk Gallinari would have led us to a title.

No white text.

[Scoooter]

I think Hunk Gallinari would have led us to a title.

No white text.
He is sexy, I'll give you that.

[ZenMaster]

Deron Williams' first choice is to stay with the Nets and to build something special in Brooklyn, but if it doesn't work out with his current team, his short list of desirable destinations includes the Mavericks, the Knicks and the Lakers, according to sources close to the situation.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7484258/new-jersey-nets-deron-williams-list-teams-go-to

They should offer Melo for Deron and Morrow, add a filler if needed.

[Akrazotile]

well, they were probably in the playoffs anyway, but I think the Carmelo + Amar'e Knicks have contender potential if they can make some tweaks whereas the Amar'e + others Knicks had a somewhat lower ceiling.

I think great players win championships and we needed ourselves a great player.

:oldlol::oldlol: :oldlol: :roll: :cry::lol :roll: :applause:

[Akrazotile]

I think Hung Gallinari would have led us to a title.

No white text.


:eek:

[ArbitraryWater]

Melo >>> Durant. I don't even know how you could take Durant over him. And how is being the most versatile not being the best? If you can do something the most ways, you are automatically the best at it.

lol

[Akrazotile]

lol


:lol







:djparty

[Springsteen]

hindsight is 20/20