MLS Surpasses NBA In Attendance [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

Euroleague

11-01-2011, 10:35 AM

http://www.bnet.com/blog/advertising-business/-8220american-football-8221-us-soccer-overtakes-nba-nhl-in-attendance/10942

U.S. Major League Soccer has eclipsed both the NBA and the National Hockey League in terms of average attendance at games — a feat that explains why Fox and Telemundo just paid an incredible $1 billion for the rights to broadcast the Word Cup in 2018 and 2022. That price was more than twice what ESPN and Univision paid to broadcast the 2010 and 2014 World Cups.

Here’s how the most recent attendance numbers break down:

1. NFL: 66,960
2. MLB: 30,352
3. MLS: 17,872
4. NBA: 17,319
5. NHL: 17,126

MLS is also fairing respectably on the international soccer stage:

1. English Premier League: 35,283
2. Germany Bundesliga: 32,101
3. Spain La Liga: 29,128
4. Mexico Primera: 26,722
5. Italy Serie A: 24,031
6. Argentina Primera: 19,843
7. France Ligue 1: 19,650
8. Netherlands Eredivisie: 19,116
9. Japan J League 1: 18,428
10. U.S. Major League Soccer: 17,872
11. England League Championship: 17,388
12. Brazil Serie A: 14,839
13. Germany Bundesliga 2: 14,539
14. Scottish Premier League: 13,677

Americans fill their arenas fuller than the football mad Brazilians or the Scots. And they’re breathing down the necks of superpowers such as Argentina, France and Holland.

In the next few years, get ready for the definition of “American football” to require a little more clarification.

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And this does not even factor in the huge drop in attendance that the NBA will suffer following the NBA lockout...............

:lol :oldlol: :roll:

icewill36

11-01-2011, 10:46 AM

dont they play in larger venues though ??? if so thats not really saying much

Fatal9

11-01-2011, 10:48 AM

:facepalm

not sure if trolling or phucking retarded. probably both.

bagelred

11-01-2011, 10:49 AM

dont they play in larger venues though ??? if so thats not really saying much

Agreed. This is like comparing apples and different types of apples.

knickscity

11-01-2011, 10:50 AM

Hmmm....... a 19,000 seat arena vs a 50- 75,000 seat arena.

:facepalm

Euroleague

11-01-2011, 10:54 AM

Hmmm....... a 19,000 seat arena vs a 50- 75,000 seat arena.

:facepalm

Oh yeah, because MLS arenas are that big............

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Zackmorris

11-01-2011, 10:58 AM

OP is a idiot. What else is new?

Jon_Koncak

11-01-2011, 11:14 AM

Euroleague

11-01-2011, 11:17 AM

With so many mexicans flooding Usa it was bound to happen(joke)..sad news,i hope Americans resist to the evil boring shitty game that is football,or soccer or whatever..here in Europe this shit is everywhere takin over every media,a typical sports fan knows more about a 3rd division Swedish football club than basketball..

The NBA is much more boring than football (soccer) is. That's the reason this is happening. Sure, NCAA tournament or good European basketball is good.............but NOT the NBA.

The NBA is scripted and fixed and the large majority of people in the US know it. That's why the popularity of the NBA in both USA and Europe has steadily declined over the last 10-12 years.

Sarcastic

11-01-2011, 11:19 AM

What's Euro League average attendance?

Euroleague

11-01-2011, 11:26 AM

What's Euro League average attendance?

Last year it was 7,478.

But keep in mind that Euroleague attendance = number of people in the arena.

While NBA "attendance" = number of tickets sold.

In many NBA games the actual in arena number is 4,000-5,000.

Unfortunately, the Euroleague does not publish tickets sold numbers, to get a better comparison.

RRR3

11-01-2011, 11:30 AM

Last year it was 7,478.

But keep in mind that Euroleague attendance = number of people in the arena.

While NBA "attendance" = number of tickets sold.

In many NBA games the actual in arena number is 4,000-5,000.

Unfortunately, the Euroleague does not publish tickets sold numbers, to get a better comparison.
To think I defended you yesterday. You bring this upon yourself. Youre a ****ing retard.

Euroleague

11-01-2011, 11:32 AM

To think I defended you yesterday. You bring this upon yourself. Youre a ****ing retard.

The NBA attendance figure is number of tickets sold, NOT number of people in the arena.

THIS IS A FACT.

Are you trying to claim otherwise?

Vienceslav

11-01-2011, 11:35 AM

The NBA attendance figure is number of tickets sold, NOT number of people in the arena.

THIS IS A FACT.

Are you trying to claim otherwise?
Some Sixers and Wizards games are pretty empty ,but in general most of the games i watched last year were pretty much packed including the nose bleed seats.
But still ahead of NHL by some two hundred people. :banana:

Euroleague

11-01-2011, 11:41 AM

Some Sixers and Wizards games are pretty empty ,but in general most of the games i watched last year were pretty much packed including the nose bleed seats.
But still ahead of NHL by some two hundred people. :banana:

The attendance figures are the number of tickets sold, regardless of how many are in the arena. Even if it is 1,000 in the arena they will count it as 14,000 - as they did in the past.

Obviously, the NBA has higher attendance than the Euroleague does, but unfortunately you can't actually compare the two because one uses tickets sold and the other uses number of people at the arena.

So it's informative to look at the two numbers, but in reality, it does not really tell you much because the two numbers are counting different things.

I am sure the NBA has higher attendance in game, but it's not nearly as high as that. Supposedly, the NBA in arena average is around 13,000.

So, about 13,000 for NBA in arena, and about 7,500 for Euroleague in arena.

Rnbizzle

11-01-2011, 12:00 PM

Topics like these... It looks like you HATE the NBA, if not then why are you laughing at facts like these?

IF you hate the NBA, then why on earth are you on AN NBA FORUM..

Sarcastic

11-01-2011, 12:02 PM

The attendance figures are the number of tickets sold, regardless of how many are in the arena. Even if it is 1,000 in the arena they will count it as 14,000 - as they did in the past.

Obviously, the NBA has higher attendance than the Euroleague does, but unfortunately you can't actually compare the two because one uses tickets sold and the other uses number of people at the arena.

So it's informative to look at the two numbers, but in reality, it does not really tell you much because the two numbers are counting different things.

I am sure the NBA has higher attendance in game, but it's not nearly as high as that. Supposedly, the NBA in arena average is around 13,000.

So, about 13,000 for NBA in arena, and about 7,500 for Euroleague in arena.

There's only 24 Euro League teams. NBA has 30 arenas they are trying to fill up. It's hard to get people to go to Milwaukee vs Sacramento games.

D-Wade316

11-01-2011, 12:08 PM

Topics like these... It looks like you HATE the NBA, if not then why are you laughing at facts like these?

IF you hate the NBA, then why on earth are you on AN NBA FORUM..
Euroleague, please answer his question.

catch24

11-01-2011, 12:21 PM

catch24

11-01-2011, 12:27 PM

...And for good measure. The average capacity of MLS stadiums is 21,000.

L8kersfan222

11-01-2011, 12:42 PM

Negged

Euroleague

11-01-2011, 12:54 PM

Topics like these... It looks like you HATE the NBA, if not then why are you laughing at facts like these?

IF you hate the NBA, then why on earth are you on AN NBA FORUM..

How the hell can you not laugh at this? MLS with higher per game attendance average than NBA - even before the lockout..........

How the hell can you not laugh at this?

"NBA forum"? WTF? This IS an NBA related topic.

Euroleague

11-01-2011, 12:57 PM

There's only 24 Euro League teams. NBA has 30 arenas they are trying to fill up. It's hard to get people to go to Milwaukee vs Sacramento games.

Do you actually think that the 24 biggest drawing clubs in Europe play in Euroleague? I have news for you..not even close. There are plenty of clubs that do not play in Euroleague that outdraw clubs that are in Euroleague.

If you want to get into such technical details, then the fact that some of the biggest drawing clubs in Europe do not even play in Euroleague can be brought up.

Euroleague

11-01-2011, 12:59 PM

MLB capacity avg: 44,234

NFL capacity avg: 70,000

The smallest is the Colts' RCA dome at 60,272.
largest is the Redskins' FedEx Field at 80,00

NBA is between 17,000 to 21,000 seating, most of of the venues are 18,000.

The NBA playoffs has had more viewers watching than the MLB for a few seasons now. The second most watched sport in the U.S.

What do we include from this? Euroleague is a moron.

WTF is wrong with you?

MLS is Major League Soccer. Nothing to do with baseball or American football.

MLS average arena size is 21,000.

What to conclude from this? YOU are a true moron.

Euroleague

11-01-2011, 01:00 PM

...And for good measure. The average capacity of MLS stadiums is 21,000.

And how does this support his argument in any way at all?

11-01-2011, 01:01 PM

And this does not even factor in the huge drop in attendance that the NBA will suffer following the NBA lockout...............

:lol :oldlol: :roll: So? and this tells us what? That he worlds most popular sport is popular?

Euroleague

11-01-2011, 01:02 PM

Negged

Negged.

Kblaze8855

11-01-2011, 01:07 PM

Only one NBA team even has 22 thousand seats to fill.

Glancing down the list of MLS stadiums when setup for soccer....36 thousand seat stadium...27 thousand....26 thousand. 27 thousand. 25. 25. 23. The smallest is 10...and wikipedia says they have a 60 thousand seat one(Oaklands) as backup to sell more tickets for big games. A lot are football stadiums they just choose how much to use based on what they think they can sell.

If the Knicks could play in Giants stadium with a roof on it anytime they play the Heat in the playoffs or play the Lakers they would have 50+ thousand people in it. They had just under 109 thousand in the Cowboys arena at the ASG.

But basketball isnt good live when you cant see the court well. So its played in small arenas.

If the Heat, Knicks, and Lakers alone could go play in huge stadiums to take advantage of big matchups they might make up the difference themselves. But its not how basketball is setup.

They just put them in big arenas for special occasions as a money grab(final four...all star games...shit like that).

The Hawks got 60+ thousand people into the Georgia dome to see Michael Jordan vs them once.

Given the option to takeover football stadiums to sell more tickets of course they would sell more than the MLS. They are a few hundred back now without just taking over Cowboys stadium when the Heat come in town to draw in 40 thousand people with average ticket prices at like 25 bucks the way the MLS does in football towns.

Euroleague

11-01-2011, 01:10 PM

Only one NBA team even has 22 thousand seats to fill.

Glancing down the list of MLS stadiums when setup for soccer....36 thousand seat stadium...27 thousand....26 thousand. 27 thousand. 25. 25. 23. The smallest is 10...and they have a 60 thousand seat one as backup to sell more tickets for big games. A lot are football stadiums they just choose how much to use based on what they think they can sell.

If the Knicks could play in Giants stadium with a roof on it anytime they play the Heat in the playoffs or play the Lakers they would have 50+ thousand people in it. They had just under 109 thousand in the Cowboys arena at the ASG.

But basketball isnt good live when you cant see the court well. So its played in small arenas.

If the Heat, Knicks, and Lakers alone could go play in huge stadiums to take advantage of big matchups they might make up the difference themselves. But its not how basketball is setup.

They just put them in big arenas for special occasions as a money grab(final four...all star games...shit like that).

TOTAL BULL SHIT

Even for you this post is lame.

:facepalm

The Greek League basketball club AEK outdoor attendance was 120,000.

120,000 was the attendance in Greek Basketball League club AEK outdoor game.

If you ever have a valid, legit and pertinent point to make........PLEASE do so.

catch24

11-01-2011, 01:13 PM

And how does this support his argument in any way at all?

Uh, what? The NBA, on average, has a capacity of 18,000 seats.

Think about it..take a few minutes if you need to.

Euroleague

11-01-2011, 01:17 PM

Uh, what? The NBA, on average, has a capacity of 18,000 seats.

Think about it..take a few minutes if you need to.

The NBA fails to fill that capacity.

Think about it for a sec...maybe it will occur to you.

Kblaze8855

11-01-2011, 01:21 PM

Which has to do with what? At all? A basketball game played outside in spring means what? The NBA is a winter game that isnt all played in places like LA and Miami. It begins in Octomber/november and winds down as it warms up. You dont put people outside to watch/play basketball in the snow in New York/Michigan/DC/chicago.

Or were you just pointing out that basketball can draw given a large venue to do so? Im shocked. As that was not my point at all. I mean...I didnt mention the several times basketball is played in such settings and sold football numbers. I didnt mention the Hawks selling 60 thousand. Or the ASG getting 109. Or the final four getting big numbers(75 thousand in the superdome).

These are things...I am not aware of yes?

catch24

11-01-2011, 01:28 PM

The NBA fails to fill that capacity.

Think about it for a sec...maybe it will occur to you.

Games just aren't watchable from nose-bleeds at a place like the old Western forum for instance. As evidence, the NBA is the 2nd most watched sport (in the US) according to the latest Nielsen ratings.

Now that all your excuses have been shredded, whats the next argument in your agenda?

Euroleague

11-01-2011, 01:53 PM

Games just aren't watchable from nose-bleeds at a place like the old Western forum for instance. As evidence, the NBA is the 2nd most watched sport (in the US) according to the latest Nielsen ratings.

Now that all your excuses have been shredded, whats the next argument in your agenda?

MLS has higher TV ratings in Europe than the NBA does.

catch24

11-01-2011, 01:54 PM

MLS has higher TV ratings in Europe than the NBA does.

:confusedshrug:

Isn't soccer more popular in Europe than it is in the US?

fillmont

11-01-2011, 02:05 PM

Keep in mind that the NBA (and NHL) have around over twice as many home games (41 for NBA/NHL, 17 for MLS this past year). While MLS might have a higher average attendance for games, more people are showing up to NBA and NHL games per year. 5,468,951 showed up to watch MLS games in the 2011 regular season; 21,302,573 showed up for NBA games for 2010 - 2011; and 20,928,036 showed up to watch NHL in 2010 - 2011.

Also, generally MLS venues, while not huge, are bigger than NBA and NHL ones. This makes sense, as soccer is played in stadia, and basketball and hockey in arenas.

Basically, while this is good news for MLS, it doesn't really mean much when looked at from a more general view of US sports. NBA and NHL are still much more popular. 5 and a half million versus over 20 million is still a huge gap.

And it certainly doesn't prove anything about whether or not NBA is popular in the US. It obviously is. One needs only look at the TV ratings to see that. MLS, while doing well for itself in attendance, is still woefully ignored on TV.

In conclusion, Euroleague really, really sucks.

Sarcastic

11-01-2011, 02:07 PM

Let's talk about MLS's TV contract vs NBA's TV contract, shall we?

Does MLS even have a TV contract?

fillmont

11-01-2011, 02:10 PM

Let's talk about MLS's TV contract vs NBA's TV contract, shall we?

Does MLS even have a TV contract?

Yep. It currently has national contracts with ESPN, Fox and (I believe) Galavision. Next year, the Fox deal expires and it will have a new contract with NBC, with 2 games on NBC proper and 6 on NBC Sports (the rebranded Versus).

But your point stands - in terms of TV viewership and rights, the NBA crushes MLS. Not even close.

Droid101

11-01-2011, 02:25 PM

5,468,951 showed up to watch MLS games in the 2011 regular season; 21,302,573 showed up for NBA games for 2010 - 2011; and 20,928,036 showed up to watch NHL in 2010 - 2011.

This. And ticket prices to NBA games are far, far higher than NHL or MLS. No contest.

fillmont

11-01-2011, 02:31 PM

This. And ticket prices to NBA games are far, far higher than NHL or MLS. No contest.

Another good point.

I love me some MLS, so it really bothers me to see a troll use it as a jab against an unrelated sport. MLS has been doing well for itself, but it is still years/decades away from even approaching the level of popularity and cultural awareness that the NBA has.

Quickening

11-01-2011, 02:35 PM

:confusedshrug:

Isn't soccer more popular in Europe than it is in the US?

Soccer is more popular in every continent.

fillmont

11-01-2011, 02:43 PM

Soccer is more popular in every continent.

Not Australia!

AirTupac

11-01-2011, 02:53 PM

Damn imagine how much both the NBA and MLS surpass the Euroleague attendence then.

catch24

11-01-2011, 03:04 PM

Soccer is more popular in every continent.

But not in every country. It's barely in the top 5 over here.

bagelred

11-01-2011, 03:39 PM

I heard they just hired Hank Williams Jr. for the MLS promos:

"Are you ready for some footbaaaaaaaaall?
The European kind, yeaaaaaaah..........
The whole house is rockin', let's get the kicking started.....
The score is real low, the players all white....
All my rowdy friends here on Friday niiiiiiiiiiiight........"

.

Rojogaqu11

11-01-2011, 03:54 PM

I don't know what the fear of soccer being popular in America is about? Soccer will never displace the Big 3 here in the US, but maybe later it can become a nice addition to American sports culture.
Even if it wasn't invented in North America, soccer is awesome once you understand it and/or have played it several times. It's the world's sport for many reasons, but in essence, its simplicity, availability, athletic range, history and passion make it human's most practiced team sport.
It's just like BBQ sauce and coffee, acquired tastes that you try them and they seem strange at first, but try them enough times and you will love them.

Lebowski

11-01-2011, 04:04 PM

I love the NBA!

What is your point? Soccer is the most popular sport in the world, most here knows this already.

Clutch

11-01-2011, 04:10 PM

Basketball >>>>> Soccer

And I'm European.

Heavincent

11-01-2011, 04:34 PM

Maga_1

11-01-2011, 06:07 PM

Not Australia!

Australia is a continent? Jk :lol

DFish

11-01-2011, 06:09 PM

I welcome an increase in popularity of the MLS and the sport. I love watching the USMNT and the Galaxy play.

But I still prefer basketball.

kaiteng

11-01-2011, 06:15 PM

So, Sounders probably got a lot of former Sonics fans, and they have drawn 30,000 average since the team moved to MLS and the Sonics moved out around the same time.

So, THANKS NBA!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

fillmont

11-01-2011, 08:12 PM

Australia is a continent? Jk :lol

Yep (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_%28continent%29) :rockon:

DMV2

11-01-2011, 08:29 PM

I hate Euroleague as much as the next guy, but why are people getting so butthurt about this thread? NBA basketball just isn't very popular anymore. And it's just going to become even less popular after the lockout. I like the NBA too, but I'm just being real here.

But still...

Basketball >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Soccer
What are you talking about? Last season was one of the more successful seasons since Jordan's retirement.

Euroleague was trying to shit on the NBA's attendance but came of stupid for it as a few posters already pointed out.

1. NFL: 66,960 (out of 70,000 capacity)
2. MLB: 30,352 (out of 44,000 capacity)
3. MLS: 17,872 (out of 21,000 capacity)
4. NBA: 17,319 (out of 18,000 capacity)
5. NHL: 17,126 (out of 18,000 capacity)

*credit to catch24 for the capacity estimation

NBA is only 600-700 below its arenas capacity, while MLS is roughly 3,300 below.

swi7ch

11-01-2011, 08:31 PM

NFL :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

Heavincent

11-01-2011, 08:38 PM

NFL :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

lol at people that think MLB is America's favorite sport. That honor clearly goes to the NFL. It's not even close.

DMV2

11-01-2011, 08:47 PM

Oh, snap!!! Look at NHL when it's in a baseball and/or a football stadium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_NHL_Winter_Classic (same stadium where the Bills play)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_NHL_Winter_Classic (The Cubs' ballpark)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_NHL_Winter_Classic (Fenway)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NHL_Winter_Classic (Steelers' home)

The NHL Winter Classic is a special event though, just one game in the season. Could they pull football/baseball attendance numbers for 82 games?

monkeypox

11-01-2011, 11:12 PM

Soccer isn't even as popular as people make it out to be. The three most populous countries in the world, US, China, and India, don't watch soccer as their main sport.

AirTupac

11-01-2011, 11:13 PM

Soccer isn't even as popular as people make it out to be. The three most populous countries in the world, US, China, and India, don't watch soccer as their main sport.

WHat? Hahaha its obviously the most popular sport in the world.

Dave3

11-01-2011, 11:25 PM

Soccer isn't even as popular as people make it out to be. The three most populous countries in the world, US, China, and India, don't watch soccer as their main sport.
Still the most popular.

700 million watched Spain vs. Netherlands in 2010
151.6 million watched the super bowl
28.2 million watched game 7 Boston LA

And actually, soccer is the most popular sport in China, with basketball as their second. The difference is every country has people who watch soccer. I can assure you people in Egypt don't know what the world series or the super bowl is. They definitely know what Fifa is though. While in the U.S yeah superbowl and nba finals may be more popular, there are still millions who watch soccer. Soccer gets viewers from pretty much every single country. That's why it's the most popular.

MaxFly

11-01-2011, 11:35 PM

TOTAL BULL SHIT

Even for you this post is lame.

:facepalm

The Greek League basketball club AEK outdoor attendance was 120,000.

120,000 was the attendance in Greek Basketball League club AEK outdoor game.

If you ever have a valid, legit and pertinent point to make........PLEASE do so.

The point KBlaze is making is that many NBA basketball teams would see much higher attendance numbers if their games were housed in larger areas, bumping up the overall NBA attendance. Teams like the Lakers, Knicks, Celtics, Heat and Mavericks for example, would attract much larger crowds if they played in larger areas. However, because the size of the arenas that NBA teams play in are limited, attendance is also limited, and games reach capacity much more quickly.

magnax1

11-02-2011, 12:55 AM

That's really surprising. I watch a lot of MLS, and the stadiums are usually half full. There are some really big stadiums, and some are even NFL stadiums, but even then...

InspiredLebowski

11-02-2011, 12:59 AM

MLB capacity avg: 44,234

NFL capacity avg: 70,000

The smallest is the Colts' RCA dome at 60,272.
largest is the Redskins' FedEx Field at 80,00

NBA is between 17,000 to 21,000 seating, most of of the venues are 18,000.

The NBA playoffs has had more viewers watching than the MLB for a few seasons now. The second most watched sport in the U.S.

What do we include from this? Euroleague is a moron. Colts haven't played in the Hoosier Dome since 2008. They play in Lucas Oil Stadium now, which is still just average by NFL standards, seats 63-70k.

Your general point's still correct, I'm just saying.

kaiteng

11-02-2011, 01:01 AM

The point KBlaze is making is that many NBA basketball teams would see much higher attendance numbers if their games were housed in larger areas, bumping up the overall NBA attendance. Teams like the Lakers, Knicks, Celtics, Heat and Mavericks for example, would attract much larger crowds if they played in larger areas. However, because the size of the arenas that NBA teams play in are limited, attendance is also limited, and games reach capacity much more quickly.
Still, most MLS soccer-specific stadiums have as limited capacity to around 20,000 just like most NBA arenas. Yes, Sounders' formerly QWest Field packs 30k a game in an American football stadium and boost the overall average a lot, but there are so many teams that don't draw well, many even worse than Kings or Nets. Still, you can see that a bunch of MLS teams' averages improve nicely compare to the last season.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer_attendance

Compare to NBA that its average, which could have been better if lower-tier teams drew better, has gone nowhere.

InspiredLebowski

11-02-2011, 01:06 AM

Still, most MLS soccer-specific stadiums have as limited capacity to around 20,000 just like most NBA arenas. Yes, Sounders' formerly QWest Field packs 30k a game in an American football stadium and boost the overall average a lot, but there are so many teams that don't draw well, many even worse than Kings or Nets. Still, you can see that a bunch of MLS teams' averages improve nicely compare to the last season.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer_attendance

Compare to NBA that its average, which could have been better if lower-tier teams drew better, has gone nowhere.That's honestly pretty interesting to see. I don't follow MLS, at all, I'd assumed outside of the NYC/LA/CHI type major markets all the other franchises are in locales w/o much competition. Some are, but not the majority like I'd assumed. The ones that do have pro sports competitors are basically in large markets with vast amounts of disposable income though. Seems like a pretty well constructed league if they can continue getting soccer off the ground stateside.

kaiteng

11-02-2011, 01:14 AM

That's honestly pretty interesting to see. I don't follow MLS, at all, I'd assumed outside of the NYC/LA/CHI type major markets all the other franchises are in locales w/o much competition. Some are, but not the majority like I'd assumed. The ones that do have pro sports competitors are basically in large markets with vast amounts of disposable income though. Seems like a pretty well constructed league if they can continue getting soccer off the ground stateside.
Basically, since 2006, MLS just goes where people want soccer (Toronto, Seattle, Philadelphia, Portland, Vancouver, Montreal) and those places draw very well. NBA actually did a good job moving the team to OKC where people clearly want basketball and it works, though there are too many crappy teams that don't draw like a major league team. Moving Nets to Brooklyn and Kings to somewhere else will help the average for sure, but how much?

InspiredLebowski

11-02-2011, 01:18 AM

Basically, since 2006, MLS just goes where people want soccer (Toronto, Seattle, Philadelphia, Portland, Vancouver, Montreal) and those places draw very well. NBA actually did a good job moving the team to OKC where people clearly want basketball and it works, though there are too many crappy teams that don't draw like a major league team. Moving Nets to Brooklyn and Kings to somewhere else will help the average for sure, but how much?It's still far, far too early to judge OKC as a market. All the #s say it's a pretty bad longterm move. It's easy for a ready made contender-esque team to come into town with a ton of young superstars and sell a shitload of tix for a few years. Let's see how they're doing in 2021.

catch24

11-02-2011, 01:25 AM

Colts haven't played in the Hoosier Dome since 2008. They play in Lucas Oil Stadium now, which is still just average by NFL standards, seats 63-70k.

Your general point's still correct, I'm just saying.

Word. Most of the info I got was from wiki anyway :oldlol:

Nielson ratings are all up to date though.

kaiteng

11-02-2011, 01:28 AM

It's still far, far too early to judge OKC as a market. All the #s say it's a pretty bad longterm move. It's easy for a ready made contender-esque team to come into town with a ton of young superstars and sell a shitload of tix for a few years. Let's see how they're doing in 2021.
Yeah, when the star i.e. Kevin Durant is gone their fortune might change dramatically. And with the trend of having more than three stars in one team i.e. Miami Heat things won't go well for smaller market teams like OKC.

catch24

11-02-2011, 01:29 AM

Compare to NBA that its average, which could have been better if lower-tier teams drew better, has gone nowhere.

NBA courts are smaller (obviously) and the games are generally tougher to get into when you have bad seats. Horrible seats at a soccer/baseball/football game>>>>NBA arena. Honestly, watching games on your 1080p flat screen is better than going to a game...unless you're courtside.

DFish

11-02-2011, 01:30 AM

It's still far, far too early to judge OKC as a market. All the #s say it's a pretty bad longterm move. It's easy for a ready made contender-esque team to come into town with a ton of young superstars and sell a shitload of tix for a few years. Let's see how they're doing in 2021.

Yeah, it sucks for people in Seattle. I've noticed, especially in the MLS, that fans in Seattle and Portland are usually really supportive of their city's teams.
Portland Timbers and Seattle Sounders home games are pretty awesome.

InspiredLebowski

11-02-2011, 01:32 AM

Yeah, it sucks for people in Seattle. I've noticed, especially in the MLS, that fans in Seattle and Portland are usually really supportive of their city's teams.
Portland Timbers and Seattle Sounders home games are pretty awesome.If the whole SonicsGate movement and guys like Gary Payton and Slick Watts talking about how much they adore the Seattle fanbase isn't enough to convince people it's not the market but the business of it, I don't know what is.

wang4three

11-02-2011, 01:42 AM

MLS stadiums can house more people, they play less games and thus have a less diluted average. Because NBA teams play several games a week, there's less weight to each game where as a 34 game season carries higher weight per game and thus attendance to each would be higher.

kaiteng

11-02-2011, 01:49 AM

InspiredLebowski

11-02-2011, 02:55 AM

It comes down to this: soccer and basketball are different when it comes to how to draw attendance.

MLS doesn't really need stars to draw if the team wins or fans are loyal enough.

NBA does need both stars and wins to draw since loyal fans cannot buy tickets enough.It's why I don't understand why there's 82 games in a year. I get that that's where we are, and the attendance is still MUCH higher in terms of revenue than it'd be by going to something like 64 (meaning 9 less home dates a year) game seasons, but it's just a watered down product. We're not about to see a legitimate proposal to scale back the number of games in a season. But from a "health of the game" view, it needs to be discussed. It's the predominate reason the NFL does so well in terms of capacity sold, every single game means a great deal.

Or we can really get radical and switch up the lotto to something like once you're mathematically eliminated from the playoffs your win %, in terms of the positive from there on out, are factored in via some sort of ratio with the draft lotto; which helps prevent tanking to a degree. Maybe even make the 8th spot in either conference a sort of Wild Card. Couple that with an attendance % ratio during those games for strictly draft purposes. See who's invested, to at least a degree, before the superstar top 3 pick arrives. Just thinking outloud.