Has Lebron James exceeded, met, or failed your expectations?

[Inception28]

What do you say?

[MichaelCheazley]

Met. Who cares if he has no championships. Hes been great and made a whole franchise legitimate for a while. Brought in new fans and gave us great highlights. Top 50 player alone. He has met it. Once he wins a chip he exceeds it.

[ElPigto]

He's definitely met my expectations as far as being a ball player. Even with some of his choke jobs, he has had great moments that have been spectacular to watch. It's too bad the type of person he seems to portray, a whiny little bitch, otherwise there is a good chance I would actually like the guy.

[rodman91]

I was waiting a great player and he become even better than that. Then my expectations got bigger and he failed.

[Heavincent]

In terms of playoffs, he has failed my expectations. Still, he is a great player and has been in the top 5 for a few years now. You gotta give him some credit for that.

[Inception28]

I was waiting a great player and he become even better than that. Then my expectations got bigger and he failed.
I would say he met my expectations from my thoughts on him when he got drafted, but he started to fail as my expectations grew on him as well. Pretty much since 2009 he has done nothing but underachieve.

[Lebron23]

He still has chances to win an NBA title. Kobe, Hakeem and Dirk were in their 30's when they won an NBA Finals MVP. I hope he wins his 3rd regular season MVP, and first NBA Finals MVP next season.

[L8kersfan222]

He still has chances to win an NBA title. Kobe, Hakeem and Dirk were in their 30's when they won an NBA Finals MVP. I hope he wins his 3rd regular season MVP, and first NBA Finals MVP next season.
:facepalm

[AlphaWolf24]

since his Rookie year he has failed....


I thought he was going to win one for Cleveland his home....what he did is unforgivable IMO

[MichaelCheazley]

since his Rookie year he has failed....


I thought he was going to win one for Cleveland his home....what he did is unforgivable IMO
I hate when people say that. Hes not from cleveland hes from akron. Unless your talking about home state which is stupid.

[AngelEyes]

since his Rookie year he has failed....


I thought he was going to win one for Cleveland his home....what he did is unforgivable IMO

Going to another team via free agency is unforgivable?

[Kurosawa0]

My expectations were that he would be one of the greatest players ever. So, I'd say he's met my expectations.

[rodman91]

He still has chances to win an NBA title. Kobe, Hakeem and Dirk were in their 30's when they won an NBA Finals MVP. I hope he wins his 3rd regular season MVP, and first NBA Finals MVP next season.

True.But we are talking about so far.

[Vragrant]

Hes met my expectations as far as meeting the hype after coming out of high school. He actually exceeded the hype by far.

He was unfairly tagged as the next GOAT by the media however and he didn't meet them. Its not his fault though because that is an unfair label. I didn't expect him to become the GOAT anyway.

[RRR3]

Funny how no other player in recent memory, perhaps ever, is held to the insane standards LeBron is. But yeah, he's nothing but a choking statpadder:rolleyes: If so, stop holding him to such ridiculous standards :facepalm

[Heavincent]

My expectations were that he would be one of the greatest players ever. So, I'd say he's met my expectations.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/kobe.gif

[RRR3]

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/kobe.gif
He's already a top 25-30 player of all time and his best seasons match up well with some all-time greats. If he can solve his finals problems (no small task, I admit, he has to prove he can sustain his play into the finals) and win multiple finals mvps and keep up his current production for a while, there's no reason he can't crack the top 10.

[Heavincent]

He's already a top 25-30 player of all time and his best seasons match up well with some all-time greats. If he can solve his finals problems (no small task, I admit, he has to prove he can sustain his play into the finals) and win multiple finals mvps and keep up his current production for a while, there's no reason he can't crack the top 10.

Lots of "ifs" in there.

He said Lebron already is one of the best players of all time, and that's obviously false.

[RRR3]

Lots of "ifs" in there.

He said Lebron already is one of the best players of all time, and that's obviously false.
Of course there's "ifs" nothing is guaranteed because his career is far from over. And it depends on what he means "by best players of all-time". Is he talking top 5? 10? 25? 50? etc.

[Kurosawa0]

Funny how no other player in recent memory, perhaps ever, is held to the insane standards LeBron is. But yeah, he's nothing but a choking statpadder:rolleyes: If so, stop holding him to such ridiculous standards :facepalm

Jalen Rose made a great point about LeBron and the historical perspective on a Grantland podcast. He mentioned that Jerry West is the logo for the league and nicknamed "Mr. Clutch", but that he made it to the NBA Finals 9 times and won only 1 time. Yet, he's remembered as one of the greatest players ever. LeBron, who by any objective view has already had a top 25 career, is somehow a giant loser because he's lost in the Finals a couple of times.

Granted, Jerry West didn't have the internet to deal with. Most of the anger you see directed at LeBron just comes from immature kids who lack a historical and practical view of the game. It's a bit sad because through all the irrational hate, they're missing the chance to enjoy one of the truly unique athletes in the history of the sport.

[JaskoX1]

Failed my expectations.

He said he was "not going to stop until he got a ring for Cleveland". Goes off to Miami and still doesn't win it all.

LeBron's performance in the 2007 Finals is still the worst Finals appearance of all time for a major star.

[RRR3]

Failed my expectations.

He said he was "not going to stop until he got a ring for Cleveland". Goes off to Miami and still doesn't win it all.

LeBron's performance in the 2007 Finals is still the worst Finals appearance of all time for a major star.

2007? Wut? Did you mean 2011? 2007 Cavs had no business in the finals in the first place, and LeBron was ****ing 21. yeah he shot like crap, but so did Derrick Rose in the ECF and Kobe against the Pacers iirc and people go, "b-b-b--b-but they were young!!!"

[Inception28]

Lots of "ifs" in there.

He said Lebron already is one of the best players of all time, and that's obviously false.
Lebron needs ifs in order to be an all-time great.

[AlphaWolf24]

2007? Wut? Did you mean 2011? 2007 Cavs had no business in the finals in the first place, and LeBron was ****ing 21. yeah he shot like crap, but so did Derrick Rose in the ECF and Kobe against the Pacers iirc and people go, "b-b-b--b-but they were young!!!"


huh?...at 21 Kobe led one of the greatest Comebacks in Playoff History and was a First team all defensive player....Game 4 of the Finals(he was also injured) he straight took over ...a year later he was arguably the best player in the world.

[JaskoX1]

2007? Wut? Did you mean 2011? 2007 Cavs had no business in the finals in the first place, and LeBron was ****ing 21. yeah he shot like crap, but so did Derrick Rose in the ECF and Kobe against the Pacers iirc and people go, "b-b-b--b-but they were young!!!"
Face it. He choked in the finals. God forbid giving Damon Jones another chance.

2010 vs Boston in the playoffs is a whole topic itself. We all know 'the quit'. (even with Wade treatment).

[Kurosawa0]

2007? Wut? Did you mean 2011? 2007 Cavs had no business in the finals in the first place, and LeBron was ****ing 21. yeah he shot like crap, but so did Derrick Rose in the ECF and Kobe against the Pacers iirc and people go, "b-b-b--b-but they were young!!!"

For as much grief as everyone gives LeBron for some of his lesser performances in the playoffs, many other "great" players have been just as bad.

Kobe shot 4-13 against the Pistons in game 3 of the 2004 Finals, resulting in just 11 points.

Dirk shot 2-14 in game 4 of the 2006 Finals.

Shaq shot 2-5 in game 2 of the 2006 Finals... for the massive total of 5 points.

Yet, somehow, LeBron's 3-11 in game 4 was the worst performance ever.

Did LeBron play well in the Finals? No, but after that game 4 he did have a triple double in game 5 and was Miami's leading scorer in game 6. It wasn't remotely enough, but to act like it somehow was this horrendous showing that is worse than anything anyone else has ever done is ridiculous. You can't make that argument if you know the history of the sport.

[ThaRegul8r]

I don't form expectations, I just watch them play and observe how they do.

[Hondo]

Failed.

The hype around LeBron was huge, he was supposed to be Magic Jordan, an ultimate hybrid. He has never really developed any go to moves, not even Magic's baby hook, and he has not shown the loyalty of either star. Michael Jordan made Chicago a legitimate basketball city.

LeBron has put up great numbers, and then choked in the playoffs. He exhibits none of Jordan or Magic's moxie and he is a traitor. When his career is finished with, that's something I'll think about, how he turned his back on his home. Olajuwon could have been in the same light had he moved from Houston to Miami like he wanted. LeBron should have stuck it out. Jamison is now an expirer, he could have had a decent team around him eventually. Jordan had to endure his share of losing, and LeBron never helped his teammates improve like Magic did. LeBron moving away from playing point guard wa sa huge mistake. He has the gonads to defend point guard, or to be hidden away guarding a wing.

[pauk]

in what terms?

as a career? lol.. that is impossible to answer as the guy is only 26 and only getting better and will be here for like around 12 more years....

as of his 1st few years in the NBA? Yes.. he has exceeded my expectations... you could be cherry picking and saying he didnt get a championship, but that is out of his hands as that is the biggest team accomplishment there is... you could be playing like a bball god sent from heaven as much as you like, you can never win a championship alone... nobody could with a scrub team, not even jordan could until he get at least pippen at the age of 27-28....

its only now lebron had a taste of a great team, he has soaked it all in and will start spamming championships... starting with this upcoming season... if there is one..

[The Iron Fist]

Hes exactly what I thought he would be. Overrated, overhyped and unable to perform in the most crucial moments.

[Tha Catalyst]

In his rookie season he met my expectations with the hype. He then went on to exceed them the next few years by growing as a player and experiencing some playoff success, even making the finals in 2007 with an average team with no right to have made it that far. But i really feel that Lebron never got significantly better beyond that point, he improved his defense and shooting a little bit but never really picked up certain aspects of basketball like ball movement and moving without the ball. Since then he has failed slightly in my expectations of him, I still feel he will retire with 2 championships and maybe 1/2 fmvp along with another mvp, and remembered as one of the best 10-15 players of all time.

[The Iron Fist]

Met. Who cares if he has no championships. Hes been great and made a whole franchise legitimate for a while. Brought in new fans and gave us great highlights. Top 50 player alone. He has met it. Once he wins a chip he exceeds it.

The Cavs as a franchise were legit before there even was a lebron james in high school.

[Derrick]

met, i expected and wanted him to fail while in miami, and he met those expectations.

[Tha Catalyst]

in what terms?

as a career? lol.. that is impossible to answer as the guy is only 26 and only getting better and will be here for like around 12 more years....

as of his 1st few years in the NBA? Yes.. he has exceeded my expectations... you could be cherry picking and saying he didnt get a championship, but that is out of his hands as that is the biggest team accomplishment there is...
No, your just defending him too much, it was well within possibility if Lebron did not drop off in production so much last season in the finals, Wade did his job, Lebron didn't. If he attacked and scored as usual Miami would have been champs.

[pauk]

Hes exactly what I thought he would be. Overrated, overhyped and unable to perform in the most crucial moments.

Hyped... ofcourse... a player of that magnitude will get hyped no matter what...

Overrated... explain please?

Unable to perform in crucial moments? I guess not if you go by only 4 games in only Finals......... but if you go by the entire playoffs (which excuse you me is actually all "crucial moments") where he has more than showed to perform.... and season i dont even need to mention...

[The Iron Fist]

Funny how no other player in recent memory, perhaps ever, is held to the insane standards LeBron is. But yeah, he's nothing but a choking statpadder:rolleyes: If so, stop holding him to such ridiculous standards :facepalm


What other player is telling you to "Witness" "The Chosen One", as he "spoils you with his play"?

He set the standards himself.

[knightfall88]

epic epic fail.

[AlphaWolf24]

Going to another team via free agency is unforgivable?


:rolleyes: this fool....

[icewill36]

exceeded... i thought he would be an average NBA player

[Kurosawa0]

Unable to perform in crucial moments? I guess not if you go by only 4 games in only Finals......... but if you go by the entire playoffs (which excuse you me is actually all "crucial moments") where he has more than showed to perform.... and season i dont even need to mention...

It's only a line of thought that works if you cherry pick your proof. You can't reasonably deny that LeBron was clutch against Boston and Chicago this year, or against Washington and Detroit in the past. In fact, I don't think anyone has had more clutch performances in the playoffs since 2006.

He's had his share of shaky moments, but so has Kobe, Dirk, Wade etc.

If Kobe hits the three to win game 1 against Dallas, maybe that Lakers team wins the series.

If Wade doesn't miss a free throw and fumble the ball off his leg in game 4 of the Finals, maybe Miami goes up 3-1.

And if Dirk doesn't fail to show up against both Miami in 06 and Golden State in 07, maybe he would've been going for ring #3 this year.

This is why arguing that LeBron is a choker is such a losing argument. It's so easily refuted and contradicted by the "clutch" labels given to players with similar failures.

[pauk]

No, your just defending him too much, it was well within possibility if Lebron did not drop off in production so much last season in the finals, Wade did his job, Lebron didn't. If he attacked and scored as usual Miami would have been champs.

No..... you are just hating him to much..

I am not talking about only what happened in the Finals ffs.. he obviously played terrible by HIS standards... i am talking about the big picture, his entire career...

i am talking about elimination series like that where it truly was out of his hands.... like in ECF against Orlando where he put up the most productive series in NBA history 39-8-8 on 49% FG with massive clutch performances............ to no avail..... so dont you sit here and act like if Lebron would have played great all the time he would have won a championship........

it doesnt work that way, it NEVER has....

take a look at anybody in NBA history... take a look at Wilt Chamberlain or even Michael Jordan before he got a ring at the age of 27-28............ he NEVER performed bad to his standards in the playoffs, during any series......... why didnt he win a championship then?

im so sick and tired of how so many of you try to act like a Championship is the act of ONE MAN......




last but not least.... Wade did his job? Really? In what sense? Manage to keep up with 26 PPG average? Then yes............

Manage to actually play great, as in be clutch, close out games? HELL NO..... Wade nor Lebron were able to close out or be clutch in ANY of these games..... well except Game 1 where Lebron was able to do that.....

Take a look how great of a job Wade did in Game 5 and especially Game 6...... he was turning the ball over and choking (even more than Lebron) in crucial moments in Game 5 and 6...

I couldnt care less how Wades PPG average didnt manage to drop when he was not able to will them to victory........... something Lebron was able to do for Wade in the Bulls series when Wade was horrible (even more horrible than what Lebron was in Finals)

[The Iron Fist]

Hyped... ofcourse... a player of that magnitude will get hyped no matter what...

Overrated... explain please?

Unable to perform in crucial moments? I guess not if you go by only 4 games in only Finals......... but if you go by the entire playoffs (which excuse you me is actually all "crucial moments") where he has more than showed to perform.... and season i dont even need to mention...
You are the perfect example of him being overhyped.


You fell for it.

[Kurosawa0]

something Lebron was able to do for Wade in the Bulls series when Wade was horrible (even more horrible than what Lebron was in Finals)

That actually is an underrated point. Wade shot 32-79 in that series. Which is about 41%.

LeBron shot 43-90 in the Finals. Which is about 48%.

[knicksman]

failed. hes been hype as the GOAT yet hes not even better than pierce:lol

[Asukal]

Dunno what went wrong, he started out great and doing the right things then suddenly turned heel. I'd say he failed my expectations. :cheers:

[pauk]

who the hell cares about their stats??

Wade averaged more points than Lebron
Lebron averaged more assists (most in that series) and rebounds (2nd to tyson chandler) than Wade
so what??

would you be happy if Lebron averaged 26-30 ppg and losed or something??

they losed because Wade and Lebron them BOTH not being able to will them to victory in the 4th quarter, in the clutch..................

watch the games instead... go to the last minutes in the 4th quarter in the Finals... you will see Wade or Lebron both NOT being able to close out / clutch / will them to victory.....


the point is.... they didnt lose because of Lebrons PPG dropoff........ Lebron taking more shots for a higher PPG would not made any difference whatsoever........

why? because the games were lost in the 4th quarter, in the CLUTCH.......... to hell with how many points Wade or Lebron averages... as long as they step up when it matters in the game............. and they BOTH were unable to do that....

[knicksman]

For as much grief as everyone gives LeBron for some of his lesser performances in the playoffs, many other "great" players have been just as bad.

Kobe shot 4-13 against the Pistons in game 3 of the 2004 Finals, resulting in just 11 points.

Kobe already got rings


Dirk shot 2-14 in game 4 of the 2006 Finals.


Its hard to give in all your effort when refs are just gifting your opponents 30+ fts

Shaq shot 2-5 in game 2 of the 2006 Finals... for the massive total of 5 points.


shaq already has rings

Yet, somehow, LeBron's 3-11 in game 4 was the worst performance ever.

lebron fanboys logic always fails. Lebron doesnt have a ring and if he had that performance then thats the worst performance ever.

[pauk]

That actually is an underrated point. Wade shot 32-79 in that series. Which is about 41%.

LeBron shot 43-90 in the Finals. Which is about 48%.

Lebron was not really bad that way.... he was just unagressive... he took so little shots... because he started to defer to Wade so god damn much....

I know its "Wades team" and he respects that and he is unselfish..... but Lebron should NOT defer to Wade... he is the better player...

[Kurosawa0]

who the hell cares about their stats??

Well, the reason I brought up the stats would be to question the idea of LeBron choking rather than just not playing well. I mean, did Wade choke against Chicago?

Losing to Dallas was really a team failure. Games two and four swung that series. Miami had a 15 point lead in game 2 and no one could make a shot once Dallas made their run. That includes LeBron and Wade. If Miami wins game two, that series is over. They would've just needed one game in Dallas, instead of two.

If Wade doesn't miss a free throw and fumble the ball in the last seconds of game four, Miami probably goes up 3-1 and would've had two chances to win it all in Miami. Once again, the series would've been over.

LeBron played badly, but it wasn't the reason Miami lost. That's rewriting history and undercutting Dallas.

[pauk]

Well, the reason I brought up the stats would be to question the idea of LeBron choking rather than just not playing well. I mean, did Wade choke against Chicago?

Losing to Dallas was really a team failure. Games two and four swung that series. Miami had a 15 point lead in game 2 and no one could make a shot once Dallas made their run. That includes LeBron and Wade. If Miami wins game two, that series is over. They would've just needed one game in Dallas, instead of two.

If Wade doesn't miss a free throw and fumble the ball in the last seconds of game four, Miami probably goes up 3-1 and would've had two chances to win it all in Miami. Once again, the series would've been over.

LeBron played badly, but it wasn't the reason Miami lost. That's rewriting history and undercutting Dallas.

well said!

[Kurosawa0]

Lebron was not really bad that way.... he was just unagressive... he took so little shots... because he started to defer to Wade so god damn much....

I know its "Wades team" and he respects that and he is unselfish..... but Lebron should NOT defer to Wade... he is the better player...

The problem is that feeding Wade was the strategy for Miami. He had the better match up against Kidd. You could clearly see that LeBron playing the facilitator was Miami's plan and that Wade was supposed to be the focal point on offense. When everything went to crap was when it wasn't completely working and LeBron needed to score too. At very few points throughout the year had Miami been able to have LeBron and Wade playing well at the same time.

It created a conflict and disrupted the team chemistry. It was fatal considering they were playing a team with Dirk playing as well as he was and that shot the three extremely well.

Still, it didn't help that LeBron couldn't post Kidd up. Really, when you look back at things, LeBron right now really resembles Dirk from 06 & 07. Dirk went and put the work in and can no longer be exploited by smaller players guarding him. He'd kill Steven Jackson now. It's just a matter if LeBron wants to put in the work to do the same.

If Carlise couldn't have put Kidd on LeBron, that series might go a completely different way.

[pauk]

The problem is that feeding Wade was the strategy for Miami. He had the better match up against Kidd. You could clearly see that LeBron playing the facilitator was Miami's plan and that Wade was supposed to be the focal point on offense. When everything went to crap was when it wasn't completely working and LeBron needed to score too. At very few points throughout the year had Miami been able to have LeBron and Wade playing well at the same time.

It created a conflict and disrupted the team chemistry. It was fatal considering they were playing a team with Dirk playing as well as he was and that shot the three extremely well.

Still, it didn't help that LeBron couldn't post Kidd up. Really, when you look back at things, LeBron right now really resembles Dirk from 06 & 07. Dirk went and put the work in and can no longer be exploited by smaller players guarding him. He'd kill Steven Jackson now. It's just a matter if LeBron wants to put in the work to do the same.

If Carlise couldn't have put Kidd on LeBron, that series might go a completely different way.

well said again!



one thing is for sure tho............. Lebron has soaked it aaaaallll in now, all the criticizm, everything, he has experienced EVERY type of failure possible in the playoffs.... I just feel bad for the next team that will be facing him in the Finals.... because he will be playing with the fury of an angry god....

"I've failed over and over and over again in my life and that is why I succeed." - Michael Jordan

[Tha Catalyst]

take a look at anybody in NBA history... take a look at Wilt Chamberlain or even Michael Jordan before he got a ring at the age of 27-28............ he NEVER performed bad to his standards in the playoffs, during any series......... why didnt he win a championship then?


When MJ made the finals he never looked back. He won when his team was meant to. He also was easily the best player in his finals series, Lebron was the 3rd/4th best player in his final series. That is the difference. Yes Jordan lost a lot, but he never made it to the finals and didn't finish the job. He never was the main reason his team lost a series, not once. Most people cite Lebron's poor play along with Dirk's closing/Mavs shooting as the main reasons that the 2011 finals was won by the Mavs. I'm not hating i said Lebron would end up top 10-12 when all is said and done, that is very reasonable.

[knightfall88]

That actually is an underrated point. Wade shot 32-79 in that series. Which is about 41%.

LeBron shot 43-90 in the Finals. Which is about 48%.

HAHA

Wade didn't cost them the series. that is the difference and that is the bottom line.

[pauk]

HAHA

Wade didn't cost them the series. that is the difference and that is the bottom line.

Watch Wade in Game 5 and especially Game 6...... then come back to me...

or you know what... Watch Wade during ANY game, but fast forward to the 4th quarter with a few minutes left....... Him nor Lebron were able to CLUTCH a win.... Lebron managed to do that in Game 1 tho...

Lebron averaged so little points in the 4th because he defered to Wade.... Lebron shot 48% in the Finals... he was not shooting horribly or something... he was only defering... it was Wade who took the shots, the most shots in the clutch............. shots that didnt go in ...

[C_lake2802]

Met my expectations. He was arguably the best high school player behind Kareem. Had one of the best rookie seasons ever. Been the best player in the league past couple of years. Clutch moments such as gm 5 vs pistons so....... . Cant say he failed based off of that

[D-Wade316]

Lebron's Age = 26

[zizozain]

if he had one half of MJ's mentality
by now he has 3 rings .. at least

2009
2010
2011

[chips93]

if he had one half of MJ's mentality
by now he has 3 rings .. at least

2009
2010
2011

true for 2011 and 2010, but even with the perfect approach in 2009, the cavs werent getting past the magic, just a bad match up, not a lot more bron could have done. he averaged like 38, 8, 8. his teammates let him down that year. but yeah, in 2010 and 2011, he let his teammates down with his lack of aggressiveness.

[DMAVS41]

dramatically exceeded my expectations for his first 7 years overall. last season was a big let down...but only because of the finals.

so overall i'd say he's exceeded my expectations. he's going to go down as one of the 15 best players of all time at worst. i'd bet he goes down as a top 12 player...with a decent chance to be one of the top 8.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

He has met my expectations as a overhyped fraud every year.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

well said again!



one thing is for sure tho............. Lebron has soaked it aaaaallll in now, all the criticizm, everything, he has experienced EVERY type of failure possible in the playoffs.... I just feel bad for the next team that will be facing him in the Finals.... because he will be playing with the fury of an angry god....

"I've failed over and over and over again in my life and that is why I succeed." - Michael Jordan

That's what was supposed to happen in '09, '10 and '11.

We've been hearing for years how he's going to do this and do that. Well we're tired of just hearing shit and seeing ESPN highlights and PER charts. We want to see RESULTS. He needs to WIN. No more excuses. No more "Oh next season it's going to be different".

[Duncan21formvp]

What do you say?
Since he entered the league or what?

[Jacks3]

-5X All-NBA 1st Team
-3X All-Defense 1st Team
-7X All-Star
-2X NBA MVP
-Top 10 peak ever
-Best player in the league last 3 yrs

Definitely overachieved. Stop hating.

[Ikill]

who the hell cares about their stats??

Wade averaged more points than Lebron
Lebron averaged more assists (most in that series) and rebounds (2nd to tyson chandler) than Wade
so what??

would you be happy if Lebron averaged 26-30 ppg and losed or something??

they losed because Wade and Lebron them BOTH not being able to will them to victory in the 4th quarter, in the clutch..................

watch the games instead... go to the last minutes in the 4th quarter in the Finals... you will see Wade or Lebron both NOT being able to close out / clutch / will them to victory.....


the point is.... they didnt lose because of Lebrons PPG dropoff........ Lebron taking more shots for a higher PPG would not made any difference whatsoever........

why? because the games were lost in the 4th quarter, in the CLUTCH.......... to hell with how many points Wade or Lebron averages... as long as they step up when it matters in the game............. and they BOTH were unable to do that....
Wade not being able to play in the clutch was Lebrons fault even tho Lebron didn't shoot alot he still had the ball a lot and did nothing with it ****ing up Wades rhythm. They also lost because Wade got injured

[RRR3]

Wade not being able to play in the clutch was Lebrons fault even tho Lebron didn't shoot alot he still had the ball a lot and did nothing with it ****ing up Wade rhythm. They also lost because Wade got injured
Wade had the ball way more than LBJ you delusional ****tard. Did you even watch the finals? :facepalm Don't blame LeBron for Wade's problems. Yeah LBJ was crap in the finals (for his standards) but don't start making it seem like he ****ed Wade up too when he carried Wade's corpse in the ECF :banghead:


/:rant

[OhNoTimNoSho]

He has exceeded my expectations of how much he would fail.

[AlexanderRight]

Failed my expectations.

He said he was "not going to stop until he got a ring for Cleveland". Goes off to Miami and still doesn't win it all.

LeBron's performance in the 2007 Finals is still the worst Finals appearance of all time for a major star.

Yes. Lets ignore the fact that the Cavs had no business even being in the Finals that year, were virtually outmatched in almost every position, and outside Lebron the team was an absolute mess. Yes, lets put it all on Lebron cause it fits our agenda. :facepalm

[PowerGlove]

only on ish would people say he didnt meet their expectations.:oldlol:

[AlphaWolf24]

Yes. Lets ignore the fact that the Cavs had no business even being in the Finals that year, were virtually outmatched in almost every position, and outside Lebron the team was an absolute mess. Yes, lets put it all on Lebron cause it fits our agenda. :facepalm


your math doesn't add up....the cavs were a very solid team that year...plus he had great teams in 08' 09' and 10'.....back 2 back 60+ win seasons and many people picked them as favorites to win it all...

plus even when he played on stacked teams he still lost....so it really doesn't matter now does it?



see how basketball math fails again....:facepalm



next

[AlexanderRight]

your math doesn't add up....the cavs were a very solid team that year...plus he had great teams in 08' 09' and 10'.....back 2 back 60+ win seasons and many people picked them as favorites to win it all...

plus even when he played on stacked teams he still lost....so it really doesn't matter now does it?



see how basketball math fails again....:facepalm



next

Of course they were. But to suggest that were good enough to legitimately match up against the beasts that were the Detroit Pistons and San Antonio Spurs that year is just laughable. The Cavs were in absolute no position to match up against them. 2007 was supposed to be another Finals rematch between Detroit and SA but Lebron single handedly beat the Pistons in the EFC, (scoring the last 25 or 30 points for the team) in game 5. lightning wasn't going to strike twice in the finals.

The Cavs getting sweeped by the Spurs was no surprise because they weren't suppose to be there in the first place. They were outmatched at damn near every position, had no chance. But idiots people want to label that series as a choke job on Lebron, which is just stupid

[LBJ 23]

Met.

[D.J.]

As an individual talent, he met my expectations. Even as a rookie, we knew we were seeing something special. As for team success and his legacy, he has epically failed and that won't change unless he wins at least 1 title.

[Ikill]

Wade had the ball way more than LBJ you delusional ****tard. Did you even watch the finals? :facepalm Don't blame LeBron for Wade's problems. Yeah LBJ was crap in the finals (for his standards) but don't start making it seem like he ****ed Wade up too when he carried Wade's corpse in the ECF :banghead:


/:rant
Did you watch the finals? There were huge chunks of games where he was not getting the ball he would catch fire and then stop getting it which is the reason he didn't play well at end of games. He played most of the game off the ball and made quick plays when he did get the ball while Lebron was the main ball handler. Lebron did not carry Wade he played better but Wade was still a huge with his defence and momentum changin plays at the end of games.

[ZaaaaaH]

Not No. **** NO !




LeBron seriously had a Chance to be GOAT but now he should be happy making it in TOP 15.



How the Fuccck did he hold Wades Hand :facepalm Been over a year and still pisses me off.

[LBJ 23]

As for team success and his legacy, he has epically failed and that won't change unless he wins at least 1 title.



I partly agree for team success, but legacy? Does winning a championship equals legacy? Because Lebron has many, many ''youngest to'' records and other individual statistical achievements which put him near Jordan, Magic and other all time greats. And I think that is a huge part in player's legacy and not only a championship, don't you think?

What is Wilt's legacy known for? Championships or something else? I think most people will tell you that they heard of him because he reached 100 points in one game and not because of how many championships he won. Of course, not all legacies are the same but I think you got my point.

[AlphaWolf24]

Yes. Lets ignore the fact that the Cavs had no business even being in the Finals that year, were virtually outmatched in almost every position, and outside Lebron the team was an absolute mess. Yes, lets put it all on Lebron cause it fits our agenda. :facepalm


once again....the Cav's were not " outmatched"....not anymore then the Mav's or any team for that matter vs the HEAT this year...

one could easily say the MAV's had no business bieng in the Finals this year...Hardly anyone picked them to beat L.A. or OKC....The HEAT were by far the Best overall team on paper..and outmatched everyone...


you seem to be the one with the agenda.....making myth's to find excuses why LBJ choked so bad:confusedshrug:

[Ikill]

The problem is that feeding Wade was the strategy for Miami. He had the better match up against Kidd. You could clearly see that LeBron playing the facilitator was Miami's plan and that Wade was supposed to be the focal point on offense. When everything went to crap was when it wasn't completely working and LeBron needed to score too. At very few points throughout the year had Miami been able to have LeBron and Wade playing well at the same time.

It created a conflict and disrupted the team chemistry. It was fatal considering they were playing a team with Dirk playing as well as he was and that shot the three extremely well.

Still, it didn't help that LeBron couldn't post Kidd up. Really, when you look back at things, LeBron right now really resembles Dirk from 06 & 07. Dirk went and put the work in and can no longer be exploited by smaller players guarding him. He'd kill Steven Jackson now. It's just a matter if LeBron wants to put in the work to do the same.

If Carlise couldn't have put Kidd on LeBron, that series might go a completely different way.
Was it really because there were huge parts of every game where Wade wasn't getting the ball. He only averaged 2 more shot attempts in the finals than he did in the ECF and one less than he did against Boston and Philly. Wade was playing a lot off the ball Lebron had his chances he did nothing with them.

[bagelred]

"I would say he's exceeded, met and failed my expectations in different ways. And that's good for America!!!"




Vote Bagelred 2012

[Ikill]

Yes. Lets ignore the fact that the Cavs had no business even being in the Finals that year, were virtually outmatched in almost every position, and outside Lebron the team was an absolute mess. Yes, lets put it all on Lebron cause it fits our agenda. :facepalm
If the Cavs had no business being in the finals why did they only lose by 3 points in game 3 and 1 point in game 4. They lost by 9 points in game 1 and 2 not even close to being a blowout and this was with Lebron playing like shit. Lebron had a lot of games in 07 where he played bad but the Cavs still won.

[pauk]

lol @ the lebron haters posting in this thread..........

Question: "Has Lebron James exceeded, met, or failed your expectations?"

Lebron hater: "Yes, i expected him to not win a ring in at least 5 years in the NBA, he didnt win a ring in 8 years... so yea he exceeded my expectations"

:lol

what the **** was your expectations? You hated him since you first heard his god damn name and hype and everything.... you knew as Kobe fans Kobes days were numbered as Lebron was chewing away Kobes superman cape quickly away.... ofcourse you were gona hate him..... stop acting like you had any expectations, you were never fans... you cared only about overrating Kobe as much as possible until... today... when its impossible to have a reason to say why he is the best in the NBA... before he at least had his team get him a ring... so you could use a ring as an excuse to why he is the best... but today nothing.... so its even more butthurtedness...... thats why you would rather see ANYBODY "be the best" but Lebron.....

thats why you go:

Carmelo > Lebron
Durant > Lebron
Wade > Lebron
Dirk > Lebron
Dwight > Lebron

[MMM]

He had exceeded my expectations the first 3 seasons, met them the next few seasons after that, and failed to meet them the last 2-3 seasons.

[Doranku]

:roll: @ this revisionist history of "The 2007 Cavs had no business being in the finals".

Um.. they beat one team that was over .500 during that run. And the Pistons were clearly on the heavy decline, look what a 3rd year Wade did to them the year before.

Let's not act like LeBron led some deadbeat cast to three astonishing playoff victories to limp into the finals. Dude averaged 25 ppg on 41% shooting for the playoffs. :oldlol: Those are poor man's AI percentages..

[pegasus]

There were some crazy expectations when Lebron was coming into the league, and not only did he meet him in the first couple of years, but he also exceeded them. However, maybe after two or three more years of just meeting the expectations (he did suck in the 2007 finals, though), he failed quite badly in the last two-three years.

His performance against the Mavericks last year was once-in-a-century type choke-job, and I consider myself honored for having witnessed that.

You get credit for making it to the finals, but being a superstar and so-called "best" player, you are ultimately judged by your performance in the finals. After all, that's where the legends are made.

[HylianNightmare]

failed

[SpecialQue]

I'm going to regret saying this, but Lebron has the potential to be the greatest player to come out of the last decade. His career does have a huge asterix next to it in that he has never had a coach who's put him in his place and FORCED him to listen to constructive criticism. If he had a great coach that he looked up to guiding him, who knows how many rings he'd have already. It's one of those "if only Kobe and Shaq got along" scenarios.

[Kurosawa0]

Was it really because there were huge parts of every game where Wade wasn't getting the ball. He only averaged 2 more shot attempts in the finals than he did in the ECF and one less than he did against Boston and Philly. Wade was playing a lot off the ball Lebron had his chances he did nothing with them.

I remember seeing Wade attacking Kidd in the post several times. They clearly were trying to exploit that match up for the first few games.

[Jasper]

From day one stepping on to the NBA floor I was surprised his game could handle the NBA.
All the vid's of him in high school was pure dominance.

Over the years I like watching the dude , because each game , year I see weaknesses that change , and it affects the whole league.

He failed my expectations playing in Clevland , and against Boston.
Call it crack in the armor , what have you ,
The point is maybe he was to young and the challenge was to much for him to shoulder the burden of carrying his team past Boston.
But what many of us also saw - (not stat's) but his teammates not playing with passion that would also drive Lebron.
Instead we saw his teammates expect Lebron to beat every team.
-----------------
I had no issues with him going to the Heat , because I suspected it would happen a couple years before it happened .
Why - contracts were all lined up to end the same time.
-------------------
The transition playing with two other great players , I really didn't see a whole lot of struggles .. Strings of losses ,yes
But his supporting cast was a major issue.

Failed my expectations : Many of us thought the Heat would tak out the Mav's in 5 or 6.
After game 4 the killer extinct in great players vanquished from this player.
When your un-willing to drive the ball or post up against Terry - something is seriously wrong with the mental drive.

* This is an elite player , and my best guess he won't continue to go south , but will find that iota that will make him a champion.
I just wish we could see him and the rest of the league play this season to either prove me wrong or right :basketball

[Heavincent]

you cared only about overrating Kobe as much as possible until... today... when its impossible to have a reason to say why he is the best in the NBA... before he at least had his team get him a ring... so you could use a ring as an excuse to why he is the best... but today nothing.... so its even more butthurtedness...... thats why you would rather see ANYBODY "be the best" but Lebron.....


It's not an excuse dipshit. Kobe's rings are evidence of his greatness.

And by the way, Kobe got his team a ring in 09 and 10, not the other way around. Kobe pretty much carried them. Yeah, it was a pretty decent supporting cast, but they wouldn't have even gotten past the Suns in the WCF in 2010 if it wasn't for Kobe's heroics.

[7_cody]

LeBron is an amazing athlete, but his refusal to work on Basketball fundamentals, such as his lack of a post game, or and anything that doesn't involve just "barreling" into the lane is bothersome. He has no killer instinct.

I prefer my favorite players to have a complete skill set. Shaq didn't, but he sure is hell is one of the best Centers to ever play. It's not necessarily a horrible thing, just a preference.

With that said, LeBron isn't my type of a player. However, I'm not dumb enough to say that he's not easily a top two player in the NBA today.

[RRR3]

This "LeBron doesn't work to improve his game" shit is so retarded. When LeBron entered the league he was not a good defender, had a broke jumper and didn't always involve his teammates as much as he could have. LeBron today is an excellent defende, has a very good jumpshot (yes, he does! tired of repeating this. ****ing watch him play :facepalm ) and is a very good team player. But yeah, he hasn't worked on his game at all :rolleyes:

[Jasper]

This "LeBron doesn't work to improve his game" shit is so retarded. When LeBron entered the league he was not a good defender, had a broke jumper and didn't always involve his teammates as much as he could have. LeBron today is an excellent defende, has a very good jumpshot (yes, he does! tired of repeating this. ****ing watch him play :facepalm ) and is a very good team player. But yeah, he hasn't worked on his game at all :rolleyes:
*FYI - you've had some nice posts lately ... I am wondering -
Has he failed any of your expectations ??

[RRR3]

*FYI - you've had some nice posts lately ... I am wondering -
Has he failed any of your expectations ??
Thanks

I wasn't a real LeBron fan until around 2008 or so (I'm a T-Mac fan first and foremost :D) so I didn't have too many expectations for him before that. I'd say he met or exceeded expectations as of 2008, which is when I started watching him. Since I have been a fan, he has met most of my expectations, but I was dissapointed he left Cleveland and he definitely disappointed me in the NBA finals this past year.

[Indian guy]

Exceeded by far.

Based on his first couple of seasons, I could've never imagined him becoming as good as he did. Up until 3 years ago, couldn't have dreamed of him becoming as skilled as he is. On the downside, I also didn't expect him to be well past his prime by 26.

[7_cody]

This "LeBron doesn't work to improve his game" shit is so retarded. When LeBron entered the league he was not a good defender, had a broke jumper and didn't always involve his teammates as much as he could have. LeBron today is an excellent defende, has a very good jumpshot (yes, he does! tired of repeating this. ****ing watch him play :facepalm ) and is a very good team player. But yeah, he hasn't worked on his game at all :rolleyes:

You're naive if you think LeBron has a superior skillset. That's all I was saying. You're right, he has improved since his rookie year. That's expected. It's not really related to what I was trying to say. I disagree about the ball movement thing. He's always been great at distributing, and always been a willing passer. That hasn't really changed, IMO. No doubt his defense is better. No doubt he can hit an open shot.

[Cali Syndicate]

I thought he should have had at least one by now especially with last years squad. Expected a finals appearance in 09 or 10 too. Still a great player though....I believe he definitely wins a couple before his career is done.

Met my expectations for sure.

[Meticode]

Even though I'm a Cavalieres fan, I'm going to be honest and say exceeded. Personally when the media hypes talent up I tend to drop that hype a notch or two lower than what they're hyping. I didn't think LeBron would be a possibly all-time great which has an awesome chance to do, but with how good he is, if he ends his great without winning, it will be a huge disappointment.

I do think if he won just one championship in Cleveland, it would've solidified his legacy more than winning several in Miami.

[RRR3]

You're naive if you think LeBron has a superior skillset. That's all I was saying. You're right, he has improved since his rookie year. That's expected. It's not really related to what I was trying to say. I disagree about the ball movement thing. He's always been great at distributing, and always been a willing passer. That hasn't really changed, IMO. No doubt his defense is better. No doubt he can hit an open shot.

LeBron has always been able to hit open shots you moron, who the **** can't? :facepalm LeBron today hits a lot of contested jumpshots, but of course you won't admit that because it doesn't fit your agenda.

[32Dayz]

It's not an excuse dipshit. Kobe's rings are evidence of his greatness.

And by the way, Kobe got his team a ring in 09 and 10, not the other way around. Kobe pretty much carried them. Yeah, it was a pretty decent supporting cast, but they wouldn't have even gotten past the Suns in the WCF in 2010 if it wasn't for Kobe's heroics.

Not really, Kobe was "clearly" the best player on only one of his Championship teams (09).

Gasol should have won FMVP in 2010 and was arguably the best player for LA over the entire playoffs that year.

Gasol led the team in Playoff WShares by a huge margin and was tied with Bryant in overall Production.

LoL @ Kobe carrying them. :facepalm

If not for Gasol being the FMVP and Fisher/Artest coming up huge constantly in the Clutch for LA Boston would have smashed them to pieces.


#1.
Facts :
LA only won a single game where Kobe outplayed Pau (G3 @ BOS) (and they both were terrible that game).

Gasol was the best player in 4/7 Games

Gasol was much better in the two most critical games of the series G6 and G7

(Gasol turned into Mr. Clutch in the Final 3 minutes of Game 7 scoring 8 points and coming up with a clutch block on pierce.
Kobe's only contribution in the Final 3 Minutes when the Celtics were fighting hard to tie the game or take the lead was 2 points and they came off a Gasol assist.

---------------------------

#2.
Lets look at how both Gasol and Kobe performed in the 4 Laker Wins (2010 Finalz)

Kobe
26.5 PPG
10 RPG
3.75 APG
37%FG
2 SPG

Gasol
19 PPG
14 RPG (6 Offensive Rebounds Per Game)
5 APG
46%FG
2.5 BPG

In the Games the Lakers won Kobe played poorly and Gasol played well.

So really.. Kobe is a great player (9-15 All-Time) but he has relied quite heavily on his supporting Casts throughout the years.

[Yung D-Will]

Way exceeded. There's only a few players that I actually buy into the hype and those guys are rarley players coming out of high school

[Bigsmoke]

he met it