New video on Dominique Wilkins. One of the greatest scoring machines in history.

[Kblaze8855]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC3Ky_9Bipo



I discussed this in the Nique vs hayes topic(Hayes won by the way) but I felt it needed a little more..

Partly because the problem I think people have when it comes to Nique is my fault. Well not me personally. But people like me. In two ways. People who make videos and people who remember him from his prime and felt he was overrated at the time and because of it never bring him up as one of the greats the way his peers at the time are.

Dam near every video of Nique on youtube is dunk contest footage and dunks from superslams of the NBA and all that. which I understand. They are amazing plays. but they have put it into peoples minds that Nique was a dunker and not much else. Its reached a point where people made topics comparing modern guys to Nique as an insult.

And while I was annoyed by the claims he was as good as or better than Jordan, Bird, and Magic(and there were many such claims) I know he was no joke. And not someone to be compared to as an insult.

That guy had one of the meanest 15 feet and in games...ever. Mean post game. Best floaters in the NBA. hooks. Footwork. The pullup jumpers. And once he got 3 point range there was nothing to be done with him.

I was asked in another topic how people could think eh was Bird/MJ good...

And I think I understand it a bit. I mean...at the time(mid to late 80s) Bird had won with vastly better teams and MJ had won nothing at all.

Fans see MJ go t oAtlanta and drop 42...but Nique has 57. See he and Bird play and nique has 40/10/5/4

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198511010BOS.html

But Bird wins with the better team.

And then again:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198603140ATL.html


Nique has 43/6/3. Loses.

I can see how one would draw a conclusion that it wasnt just Nique being worse...it was his team being worse. And no doubt part of it was. I mean...if the Lakers drafted Nique instead of Worthy does anyone feel that Nique doesnt get that top 50 spot while Worthy more likely gets snubbed like he was?

Nique might have been scorning 25-30 a game next to magic towards the late 80s when Kareem was less of a factor and he would be remembered as a winner and not a...dunker who scored.

But he didnt get lucky.

He had his faults....but the man was a monster.


And he deserves more respect than to have Lebron called just another of him.




Hes probably the most disrespected in retrospect player I can remember. At least aside from Moses Malone(he was probably the best player in a league with Kareem, Magic, Bird, and Doc but nobody puts im on their level) and guys like Moncrief who nobody brings up one way or the other anymore.

And id like to see just how disrespected he is at the moment. So....

You can have:

Nique
Melo
Durant
Pierce
Vince carter
Mcgrady


At the top of their games. 100% healthy. For a 5 year stretch. You get 5 years to do what you can to win.

Who do you want? And how many people here are taking Nique last?

[Kblaze8855]

Little from the other topic that I feel is fitting:


He scored 32, 33, and 39ppg the last 3 months of one season. 39 was a short month yes but in a full month 2 years later in 1988...he scored 38ppg. 33/7 over the last 40 games. He put up 34/7/4 in March of 93. Nique was a fantastic scorer.

Just disgusting at times. He was scoring 29 a game at 34 years old on the Clippers.

Few games from a 20 game stretch he had:

49/12vs Philly, then 4 days later 45/7 vs the Bullets, 3 days later he had 51/6, then 38, 35, and 43 in 3 straight games. he had an off night with 32/8 in a win vs the Pacers then bounced back with 47/7 and 50/5 in back to back games vs Drexlers blazers and the Badboy pistons. He was then at 35 or more in 4 of the next 7 including back to back 40 point games that were both wins(Suns and Knicks).

[Hondo]

I take peak McGrady out of that bunch, then Nique.

[BigHaDaddy]

I think you might be overrating him.

Even though most of his shots were within 15 feet, he never shot 50%. His career FG% is 46% when the league average was around 48%. He was never a great 3 point shooter.

In the playoffs, he shot even worse, 43%. Don't great players play better or at least play to their season averages when the games mean more? He played worse.

[Jacks3]

what happened to your kobe/lebron mixes?:cry:

[knightfall88]

I think you might be overrating him.

Even though most of his shots were within 15 feet, he never shot 50%. His career FG% is 46% when the league average was around 48%. He was never a great 3 point shooter.

In the playoffs, he shot even worse, 43%. Don't great players play better or at least play to their season averages when the games mean more? He played worse.

Except FG% doesn't mean shit. Moving on..
Wish he had a better supporting cast

[eliteballer]

Nique has the highest points scored in a game vs Jordan, and unless I'm forgetting someone he's the only player to avg 30 in a playoff series vs Jordan.

Haven't watched the vid but I'm assuming his gamesaving block on MJ in 93 isnt there.

Beat Jordan in the 85 dunk contest.

Basically what I'm saying is after guys like Magic Bird and Hakeem he's the only player of the Jordan era that I thought could go toe to toe with Jordan and hold his own...to an extent.

Know why Nique isn't respected?

Was injured so missed the Dream Team. Doesnt have a fanbase that sings his praises(Atlanta...)

and didnt win or play in memorable playoff series, but I'm confident if he played with Ewing in New York he would be held up there like a diety

[eliteballer]

Peak Nique vs Peak Bernard King vs Peak Drexler who you guys got?

[Asukal]

Wilkins in his prime is just as good a scorer as Jordan. Less arsenal but he was bigger and very athletic. Very entertaining to watch him put on a show. :cheers:

[28renyoy]

Durant
Nique
Melo
Pierce
McGrady
Carter


I'm assuming you're referring to the 5 year peaks during their career. Durant will quite easily be the best of the bunch, and McGrady was an inefficient chucker sans 03.

[nayte]

Agree with KBlaze..Nique was tha mantis in his day.Not to many pure scrers in his class.And yes I know his defence was suspect but give credit to one of the tru scorers

[RRR3]

Durant
Nique
Melo
Pierce
McGrady
Carter


I'm assuming you're referring to the 5 year peaks during their career. Durant will quite easily be the best of the bunch, and McGrady was an inefficient chucker sans 03.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Kblaze8855]

Even though most of his shots were within 15 feet, he never shot 50%. His career FG% is 46% when the league average was around 48%. He was never a great 3 point shooter.

In the playoffs, he shot even worse, 43%. Don't great players play better or at least play to their season averages when the games mean more? He played worse.

Meanwhile...Dantley was putting up 30 on 58%, Aguirre 30 on 50, Kiki 29 on 56, and Alex english like 30 on 50%...all while generally being considered worse than Nique.

Shooting percentage isnt, wasnt, and never will be an accurate measure of greatness or even offensive ability. Nobody at the time was worried about Nique putting up 31 a game on "only" 47% shooting. Just like nobody at the time would have said this:


McGrady was an inefficient chucker sans 03.

Of Mcgrady.

People just suddenly decided to go crazy over these numbers in like...2007. And use it to make points nobody would have made at the time because nobody needs them to see who plays the best.

[CeltsGarlic]

More skilled version than Iggy IMO. He was rocking up n under's, just like me in NBA 2K12 :lol

[Da_Realist]

Nique has the highest points scored in a game vs Jordan, and unless I'm forgetting someone he's the only player to avg 30 in a playoff series vs Jordan.

Haven't watched the vid but I'm assuming his gamesaving block on MJ in 93 isnt there.

Beat Jordan in the 85 dunk contest.

Basically what I'm saying is after guys like Magic Bird and Hakeem he's the only player of the Jordan era that I thought could go toe to toe with Jordan and hold his own...to an extent.

Know why Nique isn't respected?

Was injured so missed the Dream Team. Doesnt have a fanbase that sings his praises(Atlanta...)

and didnt win or play in memorable playoff series, but I'm confident if he played with Ewing in New York he would be held up there like a diety

damn you're obsessed

[OldSchoolBBall]

Wilkins in his prime is just as good a scorer as Jordan.

Not really. Not too close, either.

[NugzHeat3]

Nique didn't miss the Dream Team because of injury. He didn't make the cut because they either didn't see the need for him or didn't think he was deserving.

10 guys were picked before the 1991-92 season. They had to pick 1 college player and there was a spot for one more guy which went to Drexler after the terrific season he had.

Nique wasn't going to make it regardless of whether he was healthy or not.

From the guys in the OP, I'd take peak McGrady over Nique for sure, especially if he's guaranteed health throughout. Melo and Pierce are definitely not better than him.

Durant, I'll wait to pass a judgment on because he's still developing but from what we've seen till now, I'm inclined to side with Nique but a lot of it depends on the team make up. If I have a dominant post player, I may side with Durant because he's better off-ball and improves floor spacing. Two different styles for sure. Nique is more of a finisher, attacking from the mid-low post region. Taking a couple of power dribbles and finishing well. Also has a nice jab step for creating space and a dominant low post game. I think the way he uses the glass on those driving one handed jumpers/shots is the one shot that I'll never understand how anyone ever consistently made. I've literally never seen anyone make those consistently or actually have them in their arsenal.

Vince in 2001 when he was giving Eric Snow and Aaron McKie the business may have been better than Nique ever was and if I'm guaranteed effort and health, I'll prefer him. That stretch and I think he may have been better in that stretch with New Jersey right after the trade. But they're fairly close, to the point where I wouldn't argue that much if one sided with Nique.

[NugzHeat3]

I just finished watching the video. GREAT work. I forgot how effective he was spinning on the drive. Underrated body control too.

The move at 5:00 on Gerald Wilkins is just nasty.

[Kblaze8855]

I thought Nique should have been on the dream team. They let him on the 94 team but people dont even remember them existing. By the way....the MVP voting from him prime(hes not in one year due to injury and one year they won 38 games)

Larry Bird (BOS) ........ 73 765
Dominique Wilkins (ATL) . 5 407
Earvin Johnson (LAL) .... 0 205
Hakeem Olajuwon (HOU) ... 0 193
K. Abdul-Jabbar (LAL) ... 0 135
Charles Barkley (PHI) ... 0 133


Magic Johnson (LAL) ..... 65 733
Michael Jordan (CHI) .... 10 449
Larry Bird (BOS) ........ 1 271
Kevin McHale (BOS) ...... 0 254
Dominique Wilkins (ATL) . 0 128
Charles Barley (PHI) .... 0 113
Hakeem Olajuwon (HOU) ... 0 28
Isiah Thomas (DET) ...... 0 17


Michael Jordan (CHI) .... 47 665
Larry Bird (BOS) ........ 16 527
Earvin Johnson (LAL) .... 16 508
Charles Barkley (PHI) ... 1 109
Clyde Drexler (POR) ..... 0 86
Dominique Wilkins (ATL) . 0 55
Hakeem Olajuwon (HOU) ... 0 40
Karl Malone (UTA) ....... 0 36

Michael Jordan (CHI) .... 77 15 2 2 0 891
Magic Johnson (LAL) ..... 10 31 27 13 6 497
David Robinson (SAN) .... 6 31 29 16 6 476
Charles Barkley (PHI) ... 2 8 16 15 21 222
Karl Malone (UTA) ....... 0 4 8 18 20 142
Clyde Drexler (POR) ..... 1 4 4 3 8 75
Kevin Johnson (PHO) ..... 0 1 2 2 9 32
Dominique Wilkins (ATL) . 0 1 2 3 3 29
Terry Porter (POR) ...... 0 1 2 2 2 25
Larry Bird (BOS) ........ 0 0 1 5 5 25
Patrick Ewing (NYK) ..... 0 0 0 6 2 20


Charles Barkley (PHO) ... 59 27 10 2 0 835
Hakeem Olajuwon (HOU) ... 22 42 19 12 2 647
Michael Jordan (CHI) .... 13 21 50 12 2 565
Patrick Ewing (NYK) ..... 4 8 18 55 8 359
Dominique Wilkins (ATL) . 0 0 0 10 24 54
David Robinson (SAN) .... 0 0 0 2 27 33
Shaquille O'Neal (ORL) .. 0 0 1 4 13 30

[Kblaze8855]

I just finished watching the video. GREAT work. I forgot how effective he was spinning on the drive. Underrated body control too.

The move at 5:00 on Gerald Wilkins is just nasty.

Yea that shit was incestuous. I knew someone would point it out.

[NugzHeat3]

I'm fine with the way MVP voting views him. I wouldn't say he was better than Hakeem or Barkley in 1987 and 1988 but with the way they vote and how team success is weighed, he should be above them.

Kind of surprised to see McHale above him in 1987 since the Hawks won 57 and I'm sure the fact that McHale played with Bird hurt him. But I've heard a few people call 1987 McHale the best second option ever so it shouldn't be that surprising.

The only thing I'm surprised about is him getting over David Robinson in 1993 but him and the Spurs sort of had a down year.

[NugzHeat3]

BTW, who would you replace Nique with for the Dream team?

[tpols]

Did Nique ever use his left hand? On almost every single play he would almost exclusively use his right hand. In the post, if he was on the left side he would drive right into the center of the lane, if he was posting on the right side he would spin back to his right. And when he drove, even when he would be going left once in a while, he'd finish with his right hand.

[Shadynasty's]

great video

[Kblaze8855]

I was never big on Drexler but I can see why in 92 he would be chosen. So id have to say Mullin if we arent counting the college player. He had just had his best season ever but he had not really proven what Nique had. And really Pippen as of 92? Bird made it in 92...because he was Larry Bird. Not because in his hobbled state he was the best player.

A lot of things factored in other than who was most deserving at the time.

Isiah and Nique making it over Stockton and Mullin would have made it close to the perfect team to represent the NBA of that era.


Id say:

Isiah/Stockton
Jordan/Drexler
Bird/Nique/Mullin
Barkley/Malone/Mchale
Ewing/Drob

Id say mchale or Worthy were more fitting for the concept of a dream team. Not better than Scottie in 92. at all. But Bird wasnt either. Hell the way they had it setup...2 retired people and a college kid? I might have called Kareem to get him some burn. He couldnt play in 68 when he would have gotten his gold medal.

Kareem makes that the perfect team far as that era of the NBA. Not the best it could have been though.

Best...id add college Shaq since I dont think Hakeem was a citizen yet.

[goldenboy_smith]

im a youtube whore but i never seen this shit mane!! :bowdown:

[Gotterdammerung]

I mean...if the Lakers drafted Nique instead of Worthy does anyone feel that Nique doesnt get that top 50 spot while Worthy more likely gets snubbed like he was?

Nique might have been scorning 25-30 a game next to magic towards the late 80s when Kareem was less of a factor and he would be remembered as a winner and not a...dunker who scored.


Yes, in 1981 fans were certainly salivating buckets at the prospects of Nique trailing Magic on the break. He did average 21 & 8 for Georgia as a junior and made it to the Final Four. While Worthy only averaged 16 & 6 for a loaded UNC team, he did dominate in the title game with 28 and 17.

Dominique was moody and made demands (refused to play for the Clips who had 2nd pick or the Jazz for 3rd).

It's naive ISH logic to just add him to the Showtime Lakers equation but think about it rationally & in hindsight. Adding Nique means he had to:

Sacrifice shots
Defer to KAJ (the first option till 86)
Play defense


Perhaps the main assumption here is the Riley & Magic culture could've changed his selfish mindset. That may have pushed the Showtime Lakers to another level. :confusedshrug:

[Gotterdammerung]

Peak Nique vs Peak Bernard King vs Peak Drexler who you guys got?
Bernard King. He was one of the top 5 unstoppable scoring machines, ever. Stepped it up in the playoffs.

Then Drexler. All around brilliant performer. Better passer & rebounder than the other two. Great in the playoffs (1995 in particular) led two loaded teams to finals and won on 3rd trip.

Then Nique last. Awesome scorer, shitty passer, average rebounder, shitty defender, didn't step up in the playoffs.

[Asukal]

Not really. Not too close, either.

And why not? The dude put up 30 ppg seasons in his prime, that's not good enough to rival Jordan's scoring?

[Gotterdammerung]

And why not? The dude put up 30 ppg seasons in his prime, that's not good enough to rival Jordan's scoring?

The answer is simple: they scored differently.

Dominique was more of a streak shooter. His offense was mostly from 15 feet in, and in the playoffs, you play only the top teams. That is why Nique was easier to stop in the playoffs than Jordan, who stepped it up even more.

Just because someone averages 20 points a game doesn't mean he is a good scorer. He could be getting his points by breaking the offense or forcing bad shots or at his teammates' expense

[OldSchoolBBall]

And why not? The dude put up 30 ppg seasons in his prime, that's not good enough to rival Jordan's scoring?

The guy I was responding to said that Nique was "just as good a scorer" as Jordan. When one guy (Jordan) has 8 seasons of 30+ ppg (many of them significantly above 30 ppg) while the other guy has just 2 seasons of 30+ ppg (and just barely above 30 ppg, at 30.4 and 30.7 ppg), and when one guy is averaging +3-7% FG/4-8% TS during said seasons than the other guy, it's clear that one of these is not as good as the other. The postseason scoring disparity is even larger, to say nothing of the fact that Jordan was able to blend his high scoring into a successful team concept, while Nique wasn't (that goes to scoring skillset, where MJ was a much better off the ball and post player than Nique was).

[NugzHeat3]

I was never big on Drexler but I can see why in 92 he would be chosen. So id have to say Mullin if we arent counting the college player. He had just had his best season ever but he had not really proven what Nique had. And really Pippen as of 92? Bird made it in 92...because he was Larry Bird. Not because in his hobbled state he was the best player.

A lot of things factored in other than who was most deserving at the time.

Isiah and Nique making it over Stockton and Mullin would have made it close to the perfect team to represent the NBA of that era.


Id say:

Isiah/Stockton
Jordan/Drexler
Bird/Nique/Mullin
Barkley/Malone/Mchale
Ewing/Drob

Id say mchale or Worthy were more fitting for the concept of a dream team. Not better than Scottie in 92. at all. But Bird wasnt either. Hell the way they had it setup...2 retired people and a college kid? I might have called Kareem to get him some burn. He couldnt play in 68 when he would have gotten his gold medal.

Kareem makes that the perfect team far as that era of the NBA. Not the best it could have been though.

Best...id add college Shaq since I dont think Hakeem was a citizen yet.
I hear you.

The team you picked looks like a team that would've been chosen in 1988 had they allowed pros back then. Just put Magic on it instead of Stockton and replace Robinson with KAJ.

[Kblaze8855]

I kept looking t osee who I left out to get Stockton in and somehow magic didnt even come to mind.

[Jimbo_Celtics]

An excellent choice

[NugzHeat3]

I think one could make a reasonable argument that Nique's best season was in 1993 at age 33. How many other players can say that? Steve Nash, Karl Malone maybe?

Maybe not as quick as explosive as he was, he did have the achilles tendon injury earlier but I would say a more well rounded game. Added range to his shot, had all the motivation he needed with ATL missing the playoffs and people questioning his game and whether he could play at his prior level.

I've also read he was more of a committed defender that year.

Hartford Courant - Nov 23, 1992

Wilkins is concentrating more on rebounding and defense.

Dallas Morning News - Dec 1, 1992

Good enough to help the Hawks win two games this season with his defense. It's doubtful anyone will confuse Wilkins with Detroit's Dennis Rodman on the defensive end. But it was his block of a Michael Jordan jumper with one second remaining that preserved a 100-99 victory over the Chicago Bulls in the second game of the season.

[eliteballer]

Nique didnt step it up in the playoffs???

25/7/3 average carrying bad teams says otherwise.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I think one could make a reasonable argument that Nique's best season was in 1993 at age 33.

You're not the only one who thinks/thought that.

April 23, 1993 Los Angeles Times


But perhaps an even more amazing story is that of Dominique Wilkins, who 11 years into his NBA career is having his best season.

Nique thought he played better than ever as well.


"I feel really good," Wilkins said. "I'm playing the best ball I've ever played, (and) I feel better than I have ever felt."

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=y-ouAAAAIBAJ&sjid=7zIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6871,5641786&dq=dominique+wilkins+best+season&hl=en

Here's another good article about Nique's '93 season.

It talks about how many thought he was done after his injury in '92, and how he worked hard and came back so strongly. He also states in this article that he thought it was his best season.


"I would say that this is my best season of my career and I think the critics know that now," Wilkins said. "I'm better than I was before the injury. People are still probably stunned."

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=WWlGAAAAIBAJ&sjid=LukMAAAAIBAJ&pg=1233,401522&dq=dominique+wilkins+best+season&hl=en

[eliteballer]

Nique got screwed in 94 when they traded him midway through the season from a contending team.

[NugzHeat3]

You're not the only one who thinks/thought that.

April 23, 1993 Los Angeles Times



Nique thought he played better than ever as well.



http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=y-ouAAAAIBAJ&sjid=7zIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6871,5641786&dq=dominique+wilkins+best+season&hl=en

Here's another good article about Nique's '93 season.

It talks about how many thought he was done after his injury in '92, and how he worked hard and came back so strongly. He also states in this article that he thought it was his best season.



http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=WWlGAAAAIBAJ&sjid=LukMAAAAIBAJ&pg=1233,401522&dq=dominique+wilkins+best+season&hl=en

Wow, terrific find. Definitely gives some validity to the thought.

I think its also a testament to his work ethic and dedication. Most great athletes, you'd expect to see decline after such a severe injury but Nique came back playing even better; shows how more game he had and how he could still be a great player without that edge in athleticism.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Wow, terrific find. Definitely gives some validity to the thought.

I think its also a testament to his work ethic and dedication. Most great athletes, you'd expect to see decline after such a severe injury but Nique came back playing even better; shows how more game he had and how he could still be a great player without that edge in athleticism.

Yeah, and I remember watching a game from the '92 season a while back(I think Bulls/Spurs) and the news of Nique's injury came up and commentators were talking about how well he was playing that season as well. Nique had an unusually long prime. From at least '86-'93. Not many players have a prime that legitimately lasts 8+ seasons.

[Round Mound]

Great Scorer

[Pointguard]

Great video.

[Maniak]

Two words.

[Asukal]

The guy I was responding to said that Nique was "just as good a scorer" as Jordan. When one guy (Jordan) has 8 seasons of 30+ ppg (many of them significantly above 30 ppg) while the other guy has just 2 seasons of 30+ ppg (and just barely above 30 ppg, at 30.4 and 30.7 ppg), and when one guy is averaging +3-7% FG/4-8% TS during said seasons than the other guy, it's clear that one of these is not as good as the other. The postseason scoring disparity is even larger, to say nothing of the fact that Jordan was able to blend his high scoring into a successful team concept, while Nique wasn't (that goes to scoring skillset, where MJ was a much better off the ball and post player than Nique was).

Well, I did say in Wilkin's prime he is as good as a scorer as Jordan, not their whole careers. You said its not even close, but they are comparable. Of course Wilkins is not as efficient but he could get a lot of points in single games just like MJ. :confusedshrug:

[jlip]

'Nique vs MJ H2H (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=wilkido01&p2=jordami01)

This covers 39 games. These had to have been some classic shootouts. How many players do you know who played MJ to nearly a draw in scoring over their careers?

[Kblaze8855]

'Nique vs MJ H2H (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=wilkido01&p2=jordami01)

This covers 39 games. These had to have been some classic shootouts. How many players do you know who played MJ to nearly a draw in scoring over their careers?

I remember a story on Nique going off one first half and being on pace for like 60 and someone got on MJ about it and he supposedly shut him down next half. But I cant find it. Hoping someone knows what I mean....

[D.J.]

Elite scorer. One of the best of his time. Very explosive scorer. Games of 40-45 points were not at all uncommon. He was a respectable rebounder too, but not a good defender and he wasn''t able to pass and make plays like the other stars were able to do.

One thing Dominique did was up his game in clutch situations. He gave Bird huge problems in '88. Nearly led the Hawks to the ECF that year. '94 could have been the year for Nique if he wasn't traded in February.

[OldSchoolBBall]

I remember a story on Nique going off one first half and being on pace for like 60 and someone got on MJ about it and he supposedly shut him down next half. But I cant find it. Hoping someone knows what I mean....

Yeah, that was the story on SLAM online that I've mentioned many times. I had it bookmarked on my old machine, but the article has since been pulled (along with all of SLAM's archives). It was a story by Scoop Jackson of the time he went to see a Hawks/Bulls game with some friends in the late 80's, and Nique had something like 25-30 points in the first half, with MJ having a quiet 5-10 points or something. Scoop and his friends were huge Nique fans, and as MJ and the Bulls went down the tunnel to the locker room for halftime, he and his friends were hollering at Jordan, saying "Nique's killing you guys, Mike! We've got your number tonight!" Jordan made eye contact with them and shot them an icy stare as they said this (I believe he may have also said to them "we'll see about that", but I can't be sure of that part). Scoop said that after this, Jordan came out in the second half and shut Nique down to something like 4-7 points on horrible FG% and scored 40 points in the second half to win the game.

Scoop said that that was the day he truly became a Jordan fan, and he realized what made him different. He never doubted him again.

This is all paraphrased, obviously, but I read that article a few times back in the day before it was pulled and have cited it several times over the years. Shame it isn't online anymore apparently. I was actually thinking about emailing Scoop to see if he could re-post it or email it.

[eliteballer]

How convenient that scoop himself was there to haggle MJ and corroborate the story:roll: :rolleyes:

[OldSchoolBBall]

How convenient that scoop himself was there to haggle MJ and corroborate the story:roll: :rolleyes:

Yes, I'm sure he made it all up! :oldlol: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :blah

[NugzHeat3]

Didn't want to make a new thread for this game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzWF_dBNjJU

Nique and Rivers vs Lakers in 1988.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqnHGZHbY3Q&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Magic (29/11/19) and Worthy (38 pts) highlights.

[Kblaze8855]

Im gonna watch that a bit later. Thanks.

[NugzHeat3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHJ5oCU8mjk&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

^Blazers vs Hawks full game. April 29, 1993. Seems like a GEM.

Nique had 48, Willis 32/25 (no typo) and Cliff Robinson scored 39.

[Kblaze8855]

Nice to be reminded about cliff now and then. I feel like I shouldnt have to be. Dude was playing like 20 years. I feel like I saw him 2-3 years ago.

[bizil]

No question Nique was one of the premier scoring machines of all time. Inside the three point line, he developed one of the premier scoring arsenals of all time. He had a very good midrange game. But he was a great slasher, postup scorer, finisher in transition, and scorer off offensive rebounds. He had a sick array of floaters and bank shots. And he was the ultimate freak athlete, arguably the sickest freak athlete ever at the SF or any perimeter position. He was a great rebounder at SF maxing out a 9 a game in a season,which is an awesome clip for a SF. In his prime, he was clearly a top ten player in the L. He was as high as the number 2 SF in the L. The thing with Nique was he was unpredictable with his scoring exploits as well. In that sense, he was more dangerous than any SF in the L during that era.

The way Nique get shitted on is sad. He might not have been as good in the all around sense as some other greats. But he was far from just a dunker. He was a pure Batman that could carry a team and show up in the clutch. He had the ability and heart to engage MJ and Bird in shootouts for a victory. I've heard MJ say back in the day he gets up more for Nique than any other player. Watch those old school Come Fly with Me videos. He said clearly Nique was the guy who he loved competing against the most. I feel its because they were the two premier freak athlete scoring machines in the L in that era. He knew Nique had the mindset to cut a team's heart out and go on a rampage. Magic and Bird I'm sure MJ saw in a similar light. But Nique had a style and mindset that was more similar to MJ in terms of scoring the rock.

And to top it off, Nique was a major, major player in getting the NBA bigtime in terms of mass appeal. When the NBA All Star Weekend became must see TV, Nique, MJ, Magic, Bird, and Isiah were the five most important players. Magic and Zeke for setting the tone in the game, Bird for the three point shootout domination and MJ-Nique battling for the slam dunk titles. Nique was a very key factor for ratings and making the L a shitload of money. For him to not really get his props is some hater shit in the my book. All the other legends from his era get praised. Nique on the other hand gets props, but it seems he doesn't get the props befitting an icon as a whole.

[NugzHeat3]

Nice to be reminded about cliff now and then. I feel like I shouldnt have to be. Dude was playing like 20 years. I feel like I saw him 2-3 years ago.

I liked his game especially his versatility. Blazers often used to run him at three positions. Only time he really looked overmatched was going up against the bigger centers.

Mostly using quickness and driving ability against the PFs and could post up the smaller guys. He had a decent amount of range too. Good defender as well.

His rebounding was pretty weak though and he often disappeared for stretches.

BTW, the uploader of that vid made a seperate vid of Nique's highlights from that game so in case if anyone's interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EKkQ2PR9RE&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

I posted a thread about a Pistons vs Hawks game as well. Nique had a good game but they didn't include a lot of highlights. Dumars was going off though.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242953

[NugzHeat3]

As somewhat of a side note about Nique, I don't remember the exact details about the Manning-Nique trade but I think Nique got a raw deal on that one. I'd guess the Hawks didn't want to lose him for nothing since he was a FA at the end of the year.

The Hawks probably looked somewhat stupid too because I think they wanted to build around Manning long term expecting him to re-sign and he ended up signing with PHX which obviously turned out to be a bad move since he couldn't stay healthy.

They were 36-16 the time they traded him and looking good because Lenny had them playing defense and Nique had bought into the system as well. I don't think they would have won or anything but Nique probably gives them more of a boost than Manning could. That was a wide open year.

[Kblaze8855]

ISH vote on him reminded me of something Bob Costas said. He was annoyed Nique didnt make the top 50 in 96...felt he should have been top 25.

I suspect hes more respected by his peers than he ever will be by fans. That said...he was also voted the most overrated player in the NBA by the players in like 91 so.....

[L.Kizzle]

ISH vote on him reminded me of something Bob Costas said. He was annoyed Nique didnt make the top 50 in 96...felt he should have been top 25.

I suspect hes more respected by his peers than he ever will be by fans. That said...he was also voted the most overrated player in the NBA by the players in like 91 so.....
HE might have been overrated in 91, but I bet he wouldn't have been voted that in 88?

[fsvr54]

Love Nique, too bad he played in the most stacked era and had to compete against the Celtics and Pistons. He went to Europe and dominated those scrubs though.

[TheBigVeto]

You can have:

Nique
Melo
Durant
Pierce
Vince carter
Mcgrady



Nique is one of the greatest scorers of all time.

Out of that list, I'd take Wince last.

[Cali Syndicate]

Love Nique, too bad he played in the most stacked era and had to compete against the Celtics and Pistons. He went to Europe and dominated those scrubs though.

Bird vs Nique

88' ECSF Game 7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfLjD5ft6o4&feature=related
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198805220BOS.html

Wow...

Edit: Look what i found! Full game!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zZmiHc6I0w

[Round Mound]

He can be seen as Overrated and Underrated.

Scoring Wise he was a Machine...But He Was Never as an Efficiency Scorer as was King Dantley, Aguirre, Michael, Mullin, Bird, Barkley or Malone etc Who Shot Over 50% FG for Much of Their Careers

As a Rebunder he was Good too but NOT GREAT.

His Passing, Creating, Handling and Defense was Not Elite Level at All.

The Dream Team Needed Another Shooter and Fundmentally Sound Player To Ge Others Involved...Which Mullin Was...More Efficient Scorer, Better Shooter, Better Creator, Better Handles and Better Passer etc.

Still Nique Deserved to Be In The Dream Team IMO as McHale was Also Deserving for Historic Senses.

If You Go For Historic Senses: then...

Isiah, Nique and McHale should have made it over Mullin, Collge Kid Latner and Maybe Stockton. That Would Have Been The Bomb cause You Had the Best of The 80s.

[rhythmic]

Wow, you know your basketball history but my god take some English classes. I have such a hard time reading your posts, just the structure and choice of words are so poor.

Sorry, just had to let it out. :coleman:

[Round Mound]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[pauk]

1st, Great video as always Kblaze!

I was fortunate to have seen alot of Dominique in the 90s, he was not that great of an outside shooter (inconsistant every season almost), playmaker (but hey thats not so important if you are a specialist) and defense was not his strong side either, but otherwise so potent offensively (everything else you could compare to any perimeter player, midrange game, post game, faceup, finishing etc. he had it all, he was a strict scorer), a very fierce competitor and so more athletic than most of his defenders in every way, that he posed problems for a good team who came into the Omni off their game... He tore his Achilles in 1992 vs Philly while making a first step. How quickly he returned and how well he played afterwards spoke well of his toughness....

I consider him on par with Gervin and Thompson, and he would probably be comparable to McGrady and prime Vince Carter among current players.... They have tons of natural talent and ability, perhaps sometimes too greedy to manifest that into something great, lack of the required intangibles could be another reason to... But he had his chance! I'll tell you what, Atlanta royally F'd up when they traded him mid-season in 1994. I think NY would've been the only team capable of eliminating that year's Hawks in the EC. I saw quite a bit of him when he was temporarily banished to Clipperville aswell. Great player, but just out of the echelon of Bird, Erving, Magic, Jordan, Isiah, Hakeem (you know, like Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Ewing).... statistically he looked just as good, but his intangibles & impact were not the same...

But you have to also consider who he had to go thru... 'Nique's problem was that the Hawks were good when the Celtics were great... There is a whole slew of great players from the 80s and early 90s who don't get the recognition they deserve from having the unfortunate timing of having had their best years during the Lakers, Celtics and Bulls eras. Be it fair or not NBA superstars are by majority judged by rings and since 'Nique never got one he doesn't get nearly the credit that he deserves....

But Dominique Wilkins was extremly talented, i think he was almost every bit as exciting a player to watch as Michael Jordan...

Tracy McGrady & Kevin Durant at their best i think were more closer to Dominiques equals in terms of talent, impact & productions when Dominique was at his best.... Tracy was amazing and Durant is aswell (he has potentially a chance to be even greater than Nique or Tracy), my bias says Nique, but i cant... thats a tough one to pick from and then act like you made the right choice... But i would easily take Dominique over any Paul Pierce, Vince Carter and Carmelo Anthony...

[Jacks3]

Nique
Melo
Durant
Pierce
Vince carter
Mcgrady


At the top of their games. 100% healthy.
t-mac easily. by far the best peak. by far the best passer/play-maker.

and a better defender than all them except maybe pierce.

[bizil]

In terms of a guy like Nique's scoring, at times he took bad shots. He played hero ball on a team that often needed it. WHENEVER Nique was in his primary scoring areas and single covered, he was EPIC! It's when Nique got hot, doubled, or hadn't a shot in a while is when he would force shit. Thus making him more of a victim playing hero ball as opposed to guys like MJ or Bird.

I think of AI in the same cloth as Nique. To me STREAK SCORERS are guys like Maxwell, Starks, etc. Guys who even in their SO CALLED primary scoring areas COULDN'T dominate a guy enough to be multiple time All Stars. Even though at times they could look like one, but not quite enough. Nique and AI were flat out DOMINANT SCORERS who's shooting percentage's were more due to hero ball. As opposed to guys who really didn't dominate their primary scoring areas often enough, even when they had great looks.

Teams designed their defenses to stop Nique. As opposed to streak scorers like Starks, Maxwell, etc. Nique's issue was more shot selection instead of being streaky. With the physical era Nique played in AND his ability, no way in hell a streak scorer puts up his kind of numbers. Bird, MJ, and King were just more efficient and had better shot selection. If Nique is a streaky scorer then Brett Favre is a streaky QB. Calling offensive juggernauts like Nique, AI, and Favre STREAKY is minimizing them. I would rather people call them gamblers or trying to do to much.

[Rake2204]

Alright, I'm usually not that guy, but how many steps did 'Nique take at the 50 second mark (the dunk against Seattle)? Yeesh.

I like the mix though. I'm always a fan of catching some of the rarer clips (like the double pump on Eaton). Sometimes it seems like the NBA Superstars clips get played over and over enough times to convince some of us that's just about all the clips that exist for some of those guys.

Also, folks will say what they will about Vince Carter, but it's always seemed to me he was a student of the game, looking to take a lot of his influences from previous players (not just Michael Jordan) and finding a new way to make things happen. I thought this was true with his dunking, but also things like the 360 layup (of which we see Wilkins pull off a few times in this reel).

Big fan of that reverse tip-dunk at 4:38.

Never been a big fan of the dunk on Lanier though. There's a lot of other slams of his I'd take before that one. It seems to get a lot of publicity for it's story ability though.