Jesus.... why do you hate him? [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

theaussieguy

11-08-2011, 08:37 AM

I love Jesus, or at least how he's portrayed in the Bible. I know he was a real, living man but with any messiah/mystical being, who knows?

If everyone strived to be more Christlike, people wouldn't be so sick and tired of the world as much as they are

funny you say that when not a sinlge historian of the time mentioned anywhere in any of their works a figure who goes by the name of Jesus. Funny that.

Also funny that before Jesus there was a man called Horrace, with 12 disciples, and who too was executed and rose from the dead after 3 days.

How could anyone believe in his existence, when there are hundreds of religions around the world? Why is that your religion is right and the others are wrong? Screw faith and all that this is the 21st century, the statistical chance that Jesus did exist is so slim that it genuinely is laughable that people believe in him, and that is why Atheists (i am not an atheist, i believe in a creator of some sort, nothing to do with the bible though its just my own personal feeling) mock Jesus. Because it is so farking obvious its a load of sh!t and anyone that has the cheek to profess their beliefs of the dude are just that, laughable.

lilbill

11-08-2011, 08:45 AM

funny you say that when not a sinlge historian of the time mentioned anywhere in any of their works a figure who goes by the name of Jesus. Funny that.

Also funny that before Jesus there was a man called Horrace, with 12 disciples, and who too was executed and rose from the dead after 3 days.

How could anyone believe in his existence, when there are hundreds of religions around the world? Why is that your religion is right and the others are wrong? Screw faith and all that this is the 21st century, the statistical chance that Jesus did exist is so slim that it genuinely is laughable that people believe in him, and that is why Atheists (i am not an atheist, i believe in a creator of some sort, nothing to do with the bible though its just my own personal feeling) mock Jesus. Because it is so farking obvious its a load of sh!t and anyone that has the cheek to profess their beliefs of the dude are just that, laughable.

Per Wiki:

Most critical historians agree that Jesus was a Galilean Jewish Rabbi who was regarded as a teacher and healer in Judaea,[18] that he was baptized by John the Baptist, and that he was crucified in Jerusalem on the orders of the Roman Prefect, Pontius Pilate, on the charge of sedition against the Roman Empire.[19] Critical Biblical scholars and historians have offered competing descriptions of Jesus as a self-described Messiah, as the leader of an apocalyptic movement, as an itinerant sage, as a charismatic healer, and as the founder of an independent religious movement. Most contemporary scholars of the historical Jesus consider him to have been an independent, charismatic founder of a Jewish restoration movement, anticipating a future apocalypse.[20] Other prominent scholars, however, contend that Jesus' "Kingdom of God" meant radical personal and social transformation instead of a future apocalypse.[20]

Quit posting out of your ass.

theaussieguy

11-08-2011, 08:48 AM

Per Wiki:

Quit posting out of your ass.

i didn't see the part where it said, "historians of the time"

lilbill

11-08-2011, 08:58 AM

i didn't see the part where it said, "historians of the time"
:ohwell:

Separate non-Christian sources used to establish the historical existence of Jesus include the works of 1st century Roman historians Flavius Josephus and Tacitus.[348][356] Josephus scholar Louis H. Feldman has stated that few have doubted the genuineness of Josephus' reference.[349][357] Bart D. Ehrman states that the existence of Jesus and his crucifixion by the Romans is attested to by a wide range of sources, including Josephus and Tacitus.[358]

pauk

11-08-2011, 10:28 AM

maybe OT but... muslims actually believe in Jesus just as much as they believe in Muhammad... both are part of Islam/KoRan... but they believe in him and Mohammed both as Prophets... not gods...

OhNoTimNoSho

11-08-2011, 11:19 AM

That pretentious smug.

RidonKs

11-08-2011, 11:23 AM

Martin Scorsese.... C'mon man.

I haven't seen this movie, and I refuse to watch it.

From what I've heard... Jesus has sex in this movie.... :facepalm
you should, it's actually really good and incredibly thought provoking. maybe perverse for a Christian to watch, but with certainty in belief must come a willingness to open oneself up to the personally unbelievable. otherwise you're just hiding, right? for a true believer, these pop culture interpretations should at worst provoke a smile of condescension and at best reaffirm your core tenets.

TheMan

11-08-2011, 12:53 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGJOvYHw_RE

I've seen more hate on Jesus than Muhammad... why is that?
Because both are fa.ggots...:rant

lilbill

11-08-2011, 01:31 PM

you should, it's actually really good and incredibly thought provoking. maybe perverse for a Christian to watch, but with certainty in belief must come a willingness to open oneself up to the personally unbelievable. otherwise you're just hiding, right? for a true believer, these pop culture interpretations should at worst provoke a smile of condescension and at best reaffirm your core tenets.

True. Plus it has a cool soundtrack from Peter Gabriel.

DonDadda59

11-08-2011, 02:58 PM

Dude gave his life to make up for your sins and you're gonna cry about a measly 20 bucks? :no: :lol

Shit's getting old (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6hp1OJKLXQ) :rolleyes:

And saying someone hates Jesus is like saying they hate Aquaman. Makes no f*cking sense.

Bladers

11-10-2011, 03:13 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGJOvYHw_RE

I've seen more hate on Jesus than Muhammad... why is that?

The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil. (John 7:7)

-p.tiddy-

11-10-2011, 03:28 AM

Shit's getting old (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6hp1OJKLXQ) :rolleyes:

And saying someone hates Jesus is like saying they hate Aquaman. Makes no f*cking sense.
I'm not Christian but this is just a horrible analogy...

for one, it is very possible to hate a fictional character...why does it not make sense to say "I hate Aquaman and everything he stands for" :confusedshrug:

for another, there aren't millions that believe Aquaman is real...

Hittin_Shots

11-10-2011, 03:39 AM

He promised he'd paint my fence but he never did.

JaskoX1

11-10-2011, 07:40 AM

He promised he'd paint my fence but he never did.
Look at all that bread he was making

http://i.imgur.com/3oQdy.jpg

juglenuts416

11-10-2011, 10:41 AM

funny you say that when not a sinlge historian of the time mentioned anywhere in any of their works a figure who goes by the name of Jesus. Funny that.

Also funny that before Jesus there was a man called Horrace, with 12 disciples, and who too was executed and rose from the dead after 3 days.

How could anyone believe in his existence, when there are hundreds of religions around the world? Why is that your religion is right and the others are wrong? Screw faith and all that this is the 21st century, the statistical chance that Jesus did exist is so slim that it genuinely is laughable that people believe in him, and that is why Atheists (i am not an atheist, i believe in a creator of some sort, nothing to do with the bible though its just my own personal feeling) mock Jesus. Because it is so farking obvious its a load of sh!t and anyone that has the cheek to profess their beliefs of the dude are just that, laughable.

I find it laughable that I haven't heard a valid argument for how over the half of the world believes that Jesus existed and was, at the least a prophet, if he never existed. Try doing some research and comprise a thesis for how:

-the story of Jesus began
-early believers believed in him so much that they were willing to die for their beliefs
- it became the official Religion of the Roman empire in less than 400 years
- over half of the world believes he existed today

In other words, if you don't believe he existed, then you belive Christianity is the biggest hoax the world has ever seen. I'd like a decent argument for how it worked.

Bladers

11-10-2011, 12:46 PM

I find it laughable that I haven't heard a valid argument for how over the half of the world believes that Jesus existed and was, at the least a prophet, if he never existed. Try doing some research and comprise a thesis for how:

-the story of Jesus began
-early believers believed in him so much that they were willing to die for their beliefs
- it became the official Religion of the Roman empire in less than 400 years
- over half of the world believes he existed today

In other words, if you don't believe he existed, then you belive Christianity is the biggest hoax the world has ever seen. I'd like a decent argument for how it worked.

And to add to that... The bible has been the best selling book EVERY YEAR since its canonization. No book has toppled it till this day. NONE.

More than 6 Billion bible has been sold (as of 2007), no other book in history even comes remotely close... Thats just food for thought.

DonDadda59

11-10-2011, 11:23 PM

juglenuts416

11-11-2011, 11:00 AM

You just made the argument yourself.

The kind of baseless response that I expected.

DonDadda59

11-11-2011, 02:18 PM

The kind of baseless response that I expected.

What part of the 'baseless response' did you not comprehend? :confusedshrug:

You mentioned that what began as an obscure cult spread across the world and has billions of adherents and you wondered how that could have happened if it was all an elaborate 'hoax'... after you mentioned it became the official religion of the most dominant culture/society of the time which controlled virtually all of Europe and parts of Africa and Asia. This is the same culture/society whose dominant religious beliefs for centuries revolved around pagan deities, but of course Jesus is real and Zeus/Jupiter is imaginary. The ancient world knew that as well as we do now.

If you still don't get it, let me know. We'll work through this thing, just me and you :cheers:

Legend of Josh

11-11-2011, 02:26 PM

DonDadda59

11-11-2011, 02:42 PM

So we're still on the elementary and shallow-minded Christianity to Mythology comparison are we? Apples and oranges, at best. Instead of investing so much time, attention and interest in discrediting Christians and the Christian faith, perhaps it would benefit you more if you spent as much etc. attempting to answer these simple questions:

Yes, apples and oranges... if fruit was imaginary.

A) How did you get here?
A biological process which started with bumpin n grindin and ended with an umbilical cord being cut. Unless someone prayed for it and I just magically popped out of thin air fully formed. It's a miracle, praise him!

B) Why are you here?
To keeps it real, nah mean?

C) Where are you going once this life is said and done?
Either in the ground 6 feet under to have my flesh and organs devoured by worms or have my ashes spread around ceremoniously at the local tiddy bar.

... instead of just doing the trendy / cool / thinking you're some mental elitists ish and not really having much of a legit basis to answer those questions.

Answers in bold. :pimp:

Scholar

11-11-2011, 02:52 PM

I'm not about to argue over the existence of Jesus...

I just want to know one thing:

Why can't Riddler ever make a post that doesn't include a link to another site and/or YouTube video? :oldlol:

Hittin_Shots

11-11-2011, 03:20 PM

I'm not about to argue over the existence of Jesus...

I just want to know one thing:

Why can't Riddler ever make a post that doesn't include a link to another site and/or YouTube video? :oldlol:

More importantly does he every say, 'Riddle me this, Riddle me that'?

RidonKs

11-11-2011, 04:19 PM

Yes, apples and oranges... if fruit was imaginary.
:oldlol:

"What TV show are you going to watch after you break your TV?"
:oldlol:

great stuff lol

Legend of Josh

11-11-2011, 05:57 PM

When you young bucks get a little older, experience life a little more, maybe you'll grow more into an agnostic, then again maybe not.

If you can venture into the agnostic realm, then there's no reason to not entertain the possibility there really is a magic man in the sky watching over us. Yes, a creator, designer, someone or something that is beyond just ourselves.

The magic gases BIG BOOM BAM!

Fast forward and now here we are. Believe in that, takes faith. Your faith. Faith we arrived and created ourselves and everything around us, from absolutely nothing. No purpose, no agenda, nothing. It just happened.

:roll:

There can't be no magic man in the sky... that just silly. Fairy tale land. Make believe stuff. We'll just pretend there's no real God out there, and we're just here. Why, well um, don't know. We're still looking though! One day, we'll figure it all out. Yeah, sure thing, blud.

We should just humble ourselves, and come to the realization that yes there is a designer to all this, not us. It's about Him, not us, Him. Always and forever.

You damn right it is.

verylegit

11-11-2011, 06:02 PM

-p.tiddy-

11-11-2011, 06:10 PM

it doesn't even matter if Jesus was a real human or imaginary...the impact he made is very real...the reality of his existance is pretty much meangless to all of us...we would still be doing and saying the same things either way

(this is not the same as Aquaman Don)

vinsane01

11-12-2011, 12:44 AM

Maybe because jesus is an easier target? Fundamentalist muslims will kill you if you drew their prophet. :D

I dont see how jesus can be hated though. Remove the 'i am the lord, worship me' part and his messages were good in a philosophical stand point. As for the historicity of jesus, well that is kind of beside the point is it? like the poster above me said, 'his impact is very real'. And that's all there is to it. It's pointless to discredit his existence, unless a concrete evidence to suggest his non-existence is found that is.

If im not mistaken siddharta gautama's existence and influence on this earth spread through oral tradition much like how jesus existence and message survived at first. The only difference between the two is jesus claimed divinity and offered salvation in exchange for worship, the buddha simply spread his philosophy and what he thinks the ultimate truth is. Some people have a problem with the former because his claim needs to be justified with proof if not, just evidence; since billions of his believers are content with his words alone plus some previous prophecies. Non believers's curiosity and reason are not content with the mere words of the bible; or any corresponding correlation it may have with the observable reality since it offers little to no explanation on how it got the conclusion.

I havent met anyone who hated jesus. I guess if anyone hated him, it's not because of his message but because he claimed to be god and billions of people living and dead believed him to be one. And it probably upsets them to a degree that turned into anger and hate. I suggest these people to transfer their hate to abraham or whoever wrote of him since it all started with him... right?

gigantes

11-12-2011, 01:17 AM

I've seen more hate on Jesus than Muhammad... why is that?
both of them were a couple of mediocre gurus living in a primitive time who happened to be in the right time and place to be worshipped and turned into institutions.

i guarantee you this- neither of them had the slightest clue how complicated civilisation would later become or how much dumbassery and butchery would be enacted in their names.

today in 2011, the best possible way to look for the most ignorant people in the world... who don't have a clue about how reality actually works... is to look for those who worship jesus, hitler and mohammed.

Patrick Chewing

11-12-2011, 01:29 AM

living in a primitive time

Primitive? LOL these people had long been civilized my friend. Fall asleep during your anthropology class?

gigantes

11-12-2011, 01:53 AM

Primitive? LOL these people had long been civilized my friend. Fall asleep during your anthropology class?
to be honest, patrick chewing, my comment was written for the majority of people to understand, not anthropology majors. i would have assumed others such as yourself in a potential 'in-between' area would have grasped that idea, but i guess not. oh well.

and btw, NO... recorded civilisation did NOT exist much earlier than yshua ben yosef's time. maybe 3-4 thousand years at best. and that's out of 50K - 200K of modern man's existence of earth (depending on criteria).

so... anything else you want me to clear up for you, chewing?

Patrick Chewing

11-12-2011, 02:15 AM

to be honest, patrick chewing, my comment was written for the majority of people to understand, not anthropology majors. i would have assumed others such as yourself in a potential 'in-between' area would have grasped that idea, but i guess not. oh well.

and btw, NO... recorded civilisation did NOT exist much earlier than yshua ben yosef's time. maybe 3-4 thousand years at best. and that's out of 50K - 200K of modern man's existence of earth (depending on criteria).

so... anything else you want me to clear up for you, chewing?

No, your comment was just to throw your misguided opinion around and pass it off as fact, just to piss people off. There is nothing to understand because you are not teaching us or informing of us of anything. Keep trying, sport.

talkingconch

11-12-2011, 02:23 AM

gigantes

11-12-2011, 02:46 AM

No, your comment was just to throw your misguided opinion around and pass it off as fact, just to piss people off. There is nothing to understand because you are not teaching us or informing of us of anything. Keep trying, sport.
ooh... i'm terribly sorry, patrick chewing. people should think exactly as you do and talk exactly as you do and before you know it, this will be a perfect world filled with perfect people.

how TERRIBLE of me to mention easily fact-checked information that might be contrary to your limited view of reality. life is so unfair, eh?

Legend of Josh

11-12-2011, 02:55 AM

both of them were a couple of mediocre gurus living in a primitive time who happened to be in the right time and place to be worshipped and turned into institutions.

i guarantee you this- neither of them had the slightest clue how complicated civilisation would later become or how much dumbassery and butchery would be enacted in their names.

today in 2011, the best possible way to look for the most ignorant people in the world... who don't have a clue about how reality actually works... is to look for those who worship jesus, hitler and mohammed.

Really? So, by me believing Christ and all he represents is the passage way to personal salvation, that groups me into a category of those who are 'ignorant' in the world today? I have no clue about how reality actually works?

:facepalm

I suppose you have all the answers, no? Belief in something greater or more purposeful than us just simply being here for no apparant reason makes one ignorant.

Today, here in 2011, how can you look into another's eye, and see beyond their outward appearance, getting a glimpse or snapshot of their entire existence without actually knowing them? Why do we have a conscience mind? Why does love exists, and why is it so profoundly attached to us. Why is mankind so naturally attracted to doing evil deeds/thoughts?

These are all supernatural-like attributes that exists within our lives that science cannot fully explain. In a perfect scientific world, love, evil, etc wouldn't exist, however it does, and so now all a sudden here in 2011 those who still believe in a heavenly Father who sent a heavenly son to save us is just pure bullshit and ignorance?

:rolleyes:

Gundress

11-12-2011, 02:57 AM

I Love Jesus Christ.

He Died For Our Sins.

Lord Holds My Hand

God,i Suffered Through The Years And Shed So Many Tears

ROCSteady

11-12-2011, 03:12 AM

Really? So, by me believing Christ and all he represents is the passage way to personal salvation, that groups me into a category of those who are 'ignorant' in the world today? I have no clue about how reality actually works?

:facepalm

I suppose you have all the answers, no? Belief in something greater or more purposeful than us just simply being here for no apparant reason makes one ignorant.

Today, here in 2011, how can you look into another's eye, and see beyond their outward appearance, getting a glimpse or snapshot of their entire existence without actually knowing them? Why do we have a conscience mind? Why does love exists, and why is it so profoundly attached to us. Why is mankind so naturally attracted to doing evil deeds/thoughts?

These are all supernatural-like attributes that exists within our lives that science cannot fully explain. In a perfect scientific world, love, evil, etc wouldn't exist, however it does, and so now all a sudden here in 2011 those who still believe in a heavenly Father who sent a heavenly son to save us is just pure bullshit and ignorance?

:rolleyes:

Awesome Post. Repped

Patrick Chewing

11-12-2011, 09:02 PM

how TERRIBLE of me to mention easily fact-checked information that might be contrary to your limited view of reality. life is so unfair, eh?

Are you f'n stupid?? What fact-checked information? There are no facts that disprove of a Jesus or messianic figure some 2000 years ago.

Prove to me that Jesus did not exist? Prove to me he is not the son of God?

Your reality is no more real than any man walking the face of this Earth. The difference, I choose to believe in something and you don't. Does that make you more or less wiser than me? Hell no. The mistake you assclowns make is that you automatically assume you're smarter because you truly believe you're above religion and above God. But the truth of the matter is, you're just a f*cking pea in an overpopulated pod of 7 billion. No one knows the truth and there are no "facts" to prove or disprove. What there is and has always been is belief and faith. Something you atheist lunatics are trying to discredit and pass it off as lunacy on our part. And for what? To feel better about yourselves? Get the f*ck outta here

Legend of Josh

11-12-2011, 09:15 PM

You're going 'bout it the wrong way Pat.

Jude 22

Be merciful to those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear

If they don't believe, we're not to slam the Bible in their face, God's Word tells us to be merciful, so we need to be so, need to be understanding of their position, how they arrived at their beleif or lack thereof, and yes, respect that, but instead of telling someone to F' outta here with that, we're instructed to go about it a more non-judgmental way.

We can't make or force them to believe, all we can do is support them, and do whatever we can to bring them into the Kingdom circle...

sirkeelma

11-12-2011, 09:19 PM

Anyone who thinks Jesus has a long hair is an IDIOT.:facepalm

Riddler

11-13-2011, 08:27 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teoCnprFoq0

Love this song.

lilbill

11-13-2011, 08:28 PM

Anyone who thinks Jesus has a long hair is an IDIOT.:facepalm

Because barbers were so prevalent in the first century?

DonDadda59

11-13-2011, 08:54 PM

Are you f'n stupid?? What fact-checked information? There are no facts that disprove of a Jesus or messianic figure some 2000 years ago.

Prove to me that Jesus did not exist? Prove to me he is not the son of God?

Your reality is no more real than any man walking the face of this Earth. The difference, I choose to believe in something and you don't. Does that make you more or less wiser than me? Hell no. The mistake you assclowns make is that you automatically assume you're smarter because you truly believe you're above religion and above God. But the truth of the matter is, you're just a f*cking pea in an overpopulated pod of 7 billion. No one knows the truth and there are no "facts" to prove or disprove. What there is and has always been is belief and faith. Something you atheist lunatics are trying to discredit and pass it off as lunacy on our part. And for what? To feel better about yourselves? Get the f*ck outta here

Check out this old thread and let me know what you think.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187076

juglenuts416

11-14-2011, 11:03 AM

What part of the 'baseless response' did you not comprehend? :confusedshrug:

You mentioned that what began as an obscure cult spread across the world and has billions of adherents and you wondered how that could have happened if it was all an elaborate 'hoax'... after you mentioned it became the official religion of the most dominant culture/society of the time which controlled virtually all of Europe and parts of Africa and Asia. This is the same culture/society whose dominant religious beliefs for centuries revolved around pagan deities, but of course Jesus is real and Zeus/Jupiter is imaginary. The ancient world knew that as well as we do now.

If you still don't get it, let me know. We'll work through this thing, just me and you :cheers:

How about a thesis on how a life changing ideaology (a false one at that according to you) started with 1 person/small group of people and grew in prominance until it was adopted by the Roman Empire. Throw in the facts that believing in this ideaoogy requires sacrifice, caring for the sick/poor, and there is a good chance you could get killed for beliveing it. Not an easy sell, unless it truly was/is God's will for the world and the miracles performed by Jesus actually occured.

DonDadda59

11-14-2011, 01:00 PM

How about a thesis on how a life changing ideaology (a false one at that according to you) started with 1 person/small group of people and grew in prominance until it was adopted by the Roman Empire.

Emperor Constantine inherited a divided empire. At this point in its history, there were essentially 2 Romes- the western empire and the Eastern. Constantine strived to unite both into one homogeneous machine and in order to do that he had to control the minds of the people. What better way to do that than to play into their superstitions (a tactic still used by politicians to this day)? But Rome had so many differing religions, cults, etc. So he set out to do what Ptolemy Soter had done before him- create a deity that combined the facets of the differing schools of worship into one new religion.

Soter was Alexander the Great's general who inherited Egypt after his death. He faced the same issue Constantine would centuries later- trying to govern a state with differing cultures and systems of belief. His solution? He combined the gods of the indigenous Egyptians and the conquering Greeks into one syncretic figure- Serapis, combination of the Egyptian Osiris and the Greek Apis. Even though this god was nothing more than a creation of a Greek Pharaoh used to more effectively control the populace of his new empire, the people worshiped him fervently and built statues in his honor. Serapis was even referred to as 'Christus' (Christ) by his followers.

Rinse and repeat with Jesus and Emperor Constantine. Jesus is just an amalgam of the monotheistic/messianic worship of the Jews and Ebionites (what people call 'Christians' today) and the traditional pagan worship of the Romans with a sprinkling of the solar worship which had been popular for centuries in the area. Every holiday surrounding the Jesus myth just so happens to coincide with pagan holidays (Christmas=Pagan Winter Solstice, Easter=Spring Equinox). Plain and simple... like Serapis Christus before him, Jesus Christ is nothing more than the imaginings of an Emperor trying to find an effective way to control the minds and hearts of his subjects.

Once Christianity became the official religion of Rome, it basically became the official religion of Europe and other territories the Empire controlled. The influence grew over the centuries, and then eventually the Euros took Constantine's story with them when they went on their world domination tour and forced their beliefs on indigenous peoples who they either killed off or enslaved or both. Thus the greatest story ever told, authored by an Emperor, spread from Europe to Africa to the Americas, etc.

Throw in the facts that believing in this ideaoogy requires sacrifice, caring for the sick/poor, and there is a good chance you could get killed for beliveing it. Not an easy sell, unless it truly was/is God's will for the world and the miracles performed by Jesus actually occured.

Yeah, plenty of people before and since the creation of Jesus sacrificed their lives for their beliefs. There were many pagan religious practices that required human sacrifice and people willing died believing it was the will of their gods. Even today, you have Islamic extremists who strap bombs to themselves and willingly give up their lives believing with all their heart that Allah is the one true god and Muhammad his greatest prophet. There are Falun Dafa monks who practice self immolation for their beliefs.

So just because someone dies for a principle, doesn't mean anything beyond that particular person believing it is the one universal truth.

Is He Ill

11-14-2011, 01:02 PM

I don't hate Jesus, I hate the hypocrites who hide behind him. From my observations, most of the time they are some of the biggest pos. They always try to convert you when they don't even follow the teachings themselves.

B-Low

11-14-2011, 01:21 PM

I Love Jesus Christ MFer

He Died For Our Sins MFer

Lord Holds My Hand MFer

God,i Suffered Through The Years And Shed So Many Tears Explain that MFer

Well put :applause:

rufuspaul

11-14-2011, 02:35 PM

I've always liked this quote from George Harrison:

All religions are branches of one big tree. It doesn't matter what you call Him just as long as you call. Just as cinematic images appear to be real but are only combinations of light and shade, so is the universal variety a delusion. The planetary spheres, with their countless forms of life, are naught but figures in a cosmic motion picture. One's values are profoundly changed when he is finally convinced that creation is only a vast motion picture and that not in, but beyond, lies his own ultimate reality.

juglenuts416

11-14-2011, 03:34 PM

Emperor Constantine inherited a divided empire. At this point in its history, there were essentially 2 Romes- the western empire and the Eastern. Constantine strived to unite both into one homogeneous machine and in order to do that he had to control the minds of the people. What better way to do that than to play into their superstitions (a tactic still used by politicians to this day)? But Rome had so many differing religions, cults, etc. So he set out to do what Ptolemy Soter had done before him- create a deity that combined the facets of the differing schools of worship into one new religion.

Soter was Alexander the Great's general who inherited Egypt after his death. He faced the same issue Constantine would centuries later- trying to govern a state with differing cultures and systems of belief. His solution? He combined the gods of the indigenous Egyptians and the conquering Greeks into one syncretic figure- Serapis, combination of the Egyptian Osiris and the Greek Apis. Even though this god was nothing more than a creation of a Greek Pharaoh used to more effectively control the populace of his new empire, the people worshiped him fervently and built statues in his honor. Serapis was even referred to as 'Christus' (Christ) by his followers.

Rinse and repeat with Jesus and Emperor Constantine. Jesus is just an amalgam of the monotheistic/messianic worship of the Jews and Ebionites (what people call 'Christians' today) and the traditional pagan worship of the Romans with a sprinkling of the solar worship which had been popular for centuries in the area. Every holiday surrounding the Jesus myth just so happens to coincide with pagan holidays (Christmas=Pagan Winter Solstice, Easter=Spring Equinox). Plain and simple... like Serapis Christus before him, Jesus Christ is nothing more than the imaginings of an Emperor trying to find an effective way to control the minds and hearts of his subjects.

Once Christianity became the official religion of Rome, it basically became the official religion of Europe and other territories the Empire controlled. The influence grew over the centuries, and then eventually the Euros took Constantine's story with them when they went on their world domination tour and forced their beliefs on indigenous peoples who they either killed off or enslaved or both. Thus the greatest story ever told, authored by an Emperor, spread from Europe to Africa to the Americas, etc.

Yeah, plenty of people before and since the creation of Jesus sacrificed their lives for their beliefs. There were many pagan religious practices that required human sacrifice and people willing died believing it was the will of their gods. Even today, you have Islamic extremists who strap bombs to themselves and willingly give up their lives believing with all their heart that Allah is the one true god and Muhammad his greatest prophet. There are Falun Dafa monks who practice self immolation for their beliefs.

So just because someone dies for a principle, doesn't mean anything beyond that particular person believing it is the one universal truth.

I'm asking you to step back prior to Constantine. It seems that you denounce all of the Biblical accounts of the early church and believe that Constantine just created Chrisitanity from a mix of different religions/stories. What are your thoughts on the Acts of the Apostles and Paul's letters to various churches throghout the region. Did they exist? Where did they get their ideas? Did they just wake up one morning and start sculpting stories of a fictitious person?

-playmaker-

11-14-2011, 03:50 PM

this thread has been at the top forever now...:facepalm

seriously it is okay to let people believe in the Bible guys...LET IT GO

they won't hurt you I promise

Jailblazers7

11-14-2011, 03:51 PM

I've always liked this quote from George Harrison:

He sounds totally stoned out of his mind.

DonDadda59

11-14-2011, 04:38 PM

I'm asking you to step back prior to Constantine. It seems that you denounce all of the Biblical accounts of the early church and believe that Constantine just created Chrisitanity from a mix of different religions/stories. What are your thoughts on the Acts of the Apostles and Paul's letters to various churches throghout the region. Did they exist? Where did they get their ideas? Did they just wake up one morning and start sculpting stories of a fictitious person?

This should be fun. Before I give you my thoughts on anything written by 'Paul', how about you help me out with something. My history of him is a little bit hazy. Care to give me a run down of who he was and his relationship to Serapis... I mean Jesus?

rufuspaul

11-14-2011, 04:52 PM

He sounds totally stoned out of his mind.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Yeah, probably was. I still like it though.

-p.tiddy-

11-14-2011, 05:26 PM

that quote sounds EXACTLY like NDE talk...just sayin :D

juglenuts416

11-15-2011, 11:31 AM

This should be fun. Before I give you my thoughts on anything written by 'Paul', how about you help me out with something. My history of him is a little bit hazy. Care to give me a run down of who he was and his relationship to Serapis... I mean Jesus?

No need to be condescending, you know what I'm going to say. How about you step off your podium and just answer the question?:confusedshrug:

DonDadda59

11-15-2011, 01:48 PM

No need to be condescending, you know what I'm going to say. How about you step off your podium and just answer the question?:confusedshrug:

If I can't be condescending then what the hell's the point of this? :confusedshrug:

Anyway, 'Paul' supposedly lived at the same time as 'Jesus' (c. 5 AD- c. 67 AD, and Jesus was born c. 4 BC or 4 AD depending on which New Testament author you believe). So they were alive at the same time, in the same general region. Yet Paul and Jesus never met, unless you believe the story about Paul meeting his ghost on the road to Damascus ("Paul's" writings give 2 different accounts of that event). In 'his' writings, Paul never mentions a ton of the info given by the NT writers about the details of Christ's life- no mention of a virgin birth, magii from the east, Herod's slaughter of innocents, Mary, Joseph, none of Jesus' miracles (healing the sick, blind, resurrecting the dead, walking on water, etc), the transfiguration, Nazareth, Judas... the list goes on and on.

One could (and should) deduce that those stories came much later than the time that 'Paul' was writing his works (the oldest copies of the NT books ever found date back only as far as about 200 AD). But forget the other NT books for now, let's focus on 'Paul'...

There are 13 books attributed to him found in the Gospels. Of those, most modern scholars believe AT LEAST 7 to be pseudepigraphic or downright forgeries.

So basically you have a set of letters/books written by a guy who was contemporaneous to 'Jesus' but never met him, didn't know any details of his life, persecuted his followers, just saw his ghost and went blind on the road to Damascus and then had a change of heart... and most, if not all of his works are forgeries.

That answer your question?

Watch this for your benefit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQaOlxhg8xg)

JEFFERSON MONEY

11-15-2011, 02:46 PM

juglenuts416

11-15-2011, 02:55 PM

If I can't be condescending then what the hell's the point of this? :confusedshrug:

Anyway, 'Paul' supposedly lived at the same time as 'Jesus' (c. 5 AD- c. 67 AD, and Jesus was born c. 4 BC or 4 AD depending on which New Testament author you believe). So they were alive at the same time, in the same general region. Yet Paul and Jesus never met, unless you believe the story about Paul meeting his ghost on the road to Damascus ("Paul's" writings give 2 different accounts of that event). In 'his' writings, Paul never mentions a ton of the info given by the NT writers about the details of Christ's life- no mention of a virgin birth, magii from the east, Herod's slaughter of innocents, Mary, Joseph, none of Jesus' miracles (healing the sick, blind, resurrecting the dead, walking on water, etc), the transfiguration, Nazareth, Judas... the list goes on and on.

One could (and should) deduce that those stories came much later than the time that 'Paul' was writing his works (the oldest copies of the NT books ever found date back only as far as about 200 AD). But forget the other NT books for now, let's focus on 'Paul'...

There are 13 books attributed to him found in the Gospels. Of those, most modern scholars believe AT LEAST 7 to be pseudepigraphic or downright forgeries.

So basically you have a set of letters/books written by a guy who was contemporaneous to 'Jesus' but never met him, didn't know any details of his life, persecuted his followers, just saw his ghost and went blind on the road to Damascus and then had a change of heart... and most, if not all of his works are forgeries.

That answer your question?

Watch this for your benefit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQaOlxhg8xg)

Actually made me laugh with your into. Bravo. I assure you, that I have appoint, we'll get to that, but you never answered my question, which was not to denounce Paul, but....

"I'm asking you to step back prior to Constantine. It seems that you denounce all of the Biblical accounts of the early church and believe that Constantine just created Chrisitanity from a mix of different religions/stories. What are your thoughts on the Acts of the Apostles and Paul's letters to various churches throghout the region. Did they exist? Where did they get their ideas? Did they just wake up one morning and start sculpting stories of a fictitious person? "

rufuspaul

11-15-2011, 02:58 PM

If I can't be condescending then what the hell's the point of this? :confusedshrug:

Anyway, 'Paul' supposedly lived at the same time as 'Jesus' (c. 5 AD- c. 67 AD, and Jesus was born c. 4 BC or 4 AD depending on which New Testament author you believe). So they were alive at the same time, in the same general region. Yet Paul and Jesus never met, unless you believe the story about Paul meeting his ghost on the road to Damascus ("Paul's" writings give 2 different accounts of that event). In 'his' writings, Paul never mentions a ton of the info given by the NT writers about the details of Christ's life- no mention of a virgin birth, magii from the east, Herod's slaughter of innocents, Mary, Joseph, none of Jesus' miracles (healing the sick, blind, resurrecting the dead, walking on water, etc), the transfiguration, Nazareth, Judas... the list goes on and on.

One could (and should) deduce that those stories came much later than the time that 'Paul' was writing his works (the oldest copies of the NT books ever found date back only as far as about 200 AD). But forget the other NT books for now, let's focus on 'Paul'...

There are 13 books attributed to him found in the Gospels. Of those, most modern scholars believe AT LEAST 7 to be pseudepigraphic or downright forgeries.

So basically you have a set of letters/books written by a guy who was contemporaneous to 'Jesus' but never met him, didn't know any details of his life, persecuted his followers, just saw his ghost and went blind on the road to Damascus and then had a change of heart... and most, if not all of his works are forgeries.

That answer your question?

Watch this for your benefit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQaOlxhg8xg)

Paul's writings were all about setting up the Church in the gentile world. His letters were to the communities in Corinth, Ephesus, Rome, etc., advising them on matters of faith and how to live as a follower of Christ. He (and I'm speaking about him personally as well as his followers that wrote most of the letters) wasn't setting out to write a Gospel. His story is unique in that he went from persecuting deciples to becoming one himself, even dying for the cause. That "ghost" in the dessert was powerful indeed.

DonDadda59

11-15-2011, 03:21 PM

Actually made me laugh with your into. Bravo. I assure you, that I have appoint, we'll get to that, but you never answered my question, which was not to denounce Paul, but....

"I'm asking you to step back prior to Constantine. It seems that you denounce all of the Biblical accounts of the early church and believe that Constantine just created Chrisitanity from a mix of different religions/stories. What are your thoughts on the Acts of the Apostles and Paul's letters to various churches throghout the region. Did they exist? Where did they get their ideas? Did they just wake up one morning and start sculpting stories of a fictitious person? "

Are you asking me where did they get their ideas of the supernatural/mythical Jesus (ie, the virgin birth, miracles, resurrection, his life cycle mirroring the equinoxes/solstices, etc)? If so, those are recycled stories that were borrowed from Pagan societies that predated Pauline Christianity by centuries. Horus, Mithra, Dionysus, and even the Roman Sol Invictus (who was still worshipped well into the 4th century CE and whose holy day, 'the venerable day of the sun' aka Dec 25 became Christmas by decree of Emperor Constantine). Just recycled pagan conventions is the answer.

If you're asking if there was an actual human figure who was the basis, then you should read through Primetime's old thread.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187076

Paul's writings were all about setting up the Church in the gentile world. His letters were to the communities in Corinth, Ephesus, Rome, etc., advising them on matters of faith and how to live as a follower of Christ. He (and I'm speaking about him personally as well as his followers that wrote most of the letters) wasn't setting out to write a Gospel. His story is unique in that he went from persecuting deciples to becoming one himself, even dying for the cause. That "ghost" in the dessert was powerful indeed.

I know this, I'm pretty sure you and I have been over this. Paul's mission was to attract as many followers to his new religion- not the one followed by the original 'Christians' who went by many different names but generally call Ebionites... who were the original Jewish Christians, who btw didn't believe in the divinity of Jesus and were thus branded heretics and persecuted by the Pauline Christians. Paul made it no secret he was the apostle to the gentiles. He even said it himself- he was a Jew with Jews, Saul and Paul with Gentiles. He (or the group who his writings came from) were the first to fuse the monotheistic messianic figure with the gentile/pagan conventions of the day. Jesus as he's considered today is the result of that effort.

bagelred

11-15-2011, 06:30 PM

Jesus was a bad jew who deserved everything he got.......even though he's fictional.

Riddler

12-05-2011, 11:13 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N01-mNO0us

excuse me while I shove my religion down your throat.

JtotheIzzo

12-05-2011, 11:15 AM

I think people are coming around on Tim Tebow.

Riddler

12-05-2011, 11:22 AM

I think people are coming around on Tim Tebow.

That's a good point.

JtotheIzzo

12-05-2011, 11:26 AM

That's a good point.

Hey-Zeus has a fourth quarter comeback in him, they are down now with all the Catholic priest chicanery, hardcore Christian right wing political interest groups, Southern US bastardizations of the good word, etc... but never count 'The Carpenter' out, he's engineered a few comebacks in is day (Easter anyone?) and if there is anyone that can rally the troops or throw a laser with pinpoint accuracy on a deep out on third and long, it is the sandal wearing messiah.

Don't jump off the bandwagon just yet.

TheGreatBlaze

12-05-2011, 05:58 PM

Are you asking me where did they get their ideas of the supernatural/mythical Jesus (ie, the virgin birth, miracles, resurrection, his life cycle mirroring the equinoxes/solstices, etc)? If so, those are recycled stories that were borrowed from Pagan societies that predated Pauline Christianity by centuries. Horus, Mithra, Dionysus, and even the Roman Sol Invictus (who was still worshipped well into the 4th century CE and whose holy day, 'the venerable day of the sun' aka Dec 25 became Christmas by decree of Emperor Constantine). Just recycled pagan conventions is the answer.

This is not true at all, one of the many fabrications from the 2007 movie "Zeitgeist". Watch it get exposed here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD40xi9KdqE

Godzuki

12-05-2011, 06:09 PM

i used to be anti religion but tebow has turned me christian :cheers:

DonDadda59

12-05-2011, 06:15 PM

This is not true at all, one of the many fabrications from the 2007 movie "Zeitgeist". Watch it get exposed here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD40xi9KdqE

So basically... you're saying that a video (That I'm not even using as a source) is full of fabrications and you make this argument by posting another video?

Here's an idea, how about YOU specifically point out which part of my post is fabricated and then we'll take it from there.

TheGreatBlaze

12-05-2011, 06:24 PM

So basically... you're saying that a video (That I'm not even using as a source) is full of fabrications and you make this argument by posting another video?

Here's an idea, how about YOU specifically point out which part of my post is fabricated and then we'll take it from there.
Basically all the pagan egyptian god myths that the Jesus story was supposedly stolen from have absolutely no historical or documented evidence to have EVER predated Him. It's completely made up. The video I posted explains why too. Plus it's just common sense, being able to discern the truth from a lie is important. "Religulous" and "Zeitgeist" are not honest sources to base information on.

DonDadda59

12-05-2011, 06:39 PM

Basically all the pagan egyptian god myths that the Jesus story was supposedly stolen from have absolutely no historical or documented evidence to have EVER predated Him. It's completely made up. The video I posted explains why too. Plus it's just common sense, being able to discern the truth from a lie is important. "Religulous" and "Zeitgeist" are not honest sources to base information on.

Fair enough, let's use more neutral sources then.

And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter.

-Justin Martyr, Early Church Father (103-165 CE)

And if we assert that the Word of God was born of God in a peculiar manner, different from ordinary generation, let this, as said above, be no extraordinary thing to you, who say that Mercury is the angelic word of God. But if any one objects that He was crucified, in this also He is on a par with those reputed sons of Jupiter of yours, who suffered as we have now enumerated.

And if we even affirm that He was born of a virgin, accept this in common with what you accept of Perseus. And in that we say that He made whole the lame, the paralytic, and those born blind, we seem to say what is very similar to the deeds said to have been done by Aesculapius.

-Justin Martyr, Early Church Father (103-165 CE)

Tell me why a Church father, now a Saint, who lived and worked only a century after Jesus supposedly was born of a virgin, walked on water, healed with magic, was resurrected, etc said that all that Christians believe about their lord and savior should be held with the same regard as what the Pagans believed about their Gods?

Kind of an odd thing to say/assert, no? :confusedshrug:

BTW, like I mentioned in the post that you say is based on fabrications, Dionysus (who was born of a virgin, walked the Earth, was crucified, and resurrected) is one of the Sons of Jupiter (Zeus).

Do you really want to keep doing this? We've been down this road too many times on this board. But I'm good to go if you are. Just let me know.

TheGreatBlaze

12-05-2011, 06:49 PM

Fair enough, let's use more neutral sources then.

And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter.

-Justin Martyr, Early Church Father (103-165 CE)

And if we assert that the Word of God was born of God in a peculiar manner, different from ordinary generation, let this, as said above, be no extraordinary thing to you, who say that Mercury is the angelic word of God. But if any one objects that He was crucified, in this also He is on a par with those reputed sons of Jupiter of yours, who suffered as we have now enumerated.

And if we even affirm that He was born of a virgin, accept this in common with what you accept of Perseus. And in that we say that He made whole the lame, the paralytic, and those born blind, we seem to say what is very similar to the deeds said to have been done by Aesculapius.

-Justin Martyr, Early Church Father (103-165 CE)

Tell me why a Church father, now a Saint, who lived and worked only a century after Jesus supposedly was born of a virgin, walked on water, healed with magic, was resurrected, etc said that all that Christians believe about their lord and savior should be held with the same regard as what the Pagans believed about their Gods?

Kind of an odd thing to say/assert, no? :confusedshrug:

BTW, like I mentioned in the post that you say is based on fabrications, Dionysus (who was born of a virgin, walked the Earth, was crucified, and resurrected) is one of the Sons of Jupiter (Zeus).

Do you really want to keep doing this? We've been down this road too many times on this board. But I'm good to go if you are. Just let me know.
It seems to me you're taking those quotes out of context. Justin Martyr was an early Christian apologist and it looks like he was pleading his case to pagan nations and gentiles that Jesus is not far dissimilar from the gods they worship. It never says that the exact same list of events happened to their so-called gods (ie, 12 disciples, walking on water, crucifixion) just the same basic principals that Jesus was a man to perform miracles and that it really happened so worshiping Him shouldn't be so far off for those who worship pagan gods. If Justin Martyr knew the events of Jesus' life were a complete lie and fabrication then he wouldn't be a Christian martyr then would he? Why would would he be an apologist for something he knew to be a lie? Why would he die for a lie?

DonDadda59

12-05-2011, 07:11 PM

It seems to me you're taking those quotes out of context. Justin Martyr was an early Christian apologist and it looks like he was pleading his case to pagan nations and gentiles that Jesus is not far dissimilar from the gods they worship. It never says that the exact same list of events happened to their so-called gods (ie, 12 disciples, walking on water, crucifixion) just the same basic principals that Jesus was a man to perform miracles and that it really happened so worshiping Him shouldn't be so far off for those who worship pagan gods.

Can you not read, sir? :confusedshrug:

He list clear similarities between the Pagan Gods and his Jesus- born of no sexual union (ie, virgin birth), crucified, died, and rose again. He healed the sick, gave site to the blind, fixed the lame like Aesculapius (who as coincidence would have it was struck down by Zeus because he resurrected Hippolytus ala Lazarus).

So not only does he give specific examples of how Jesus is just like the Pagan Gods, he gives the names of specific Gods who the stories were lifted from :oldlol:

But yeah, he was just talking in generalities.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kwr74wGj5g1qad7qzo1_500.jpg

If Justin Martyr knew the events of Jesus' life were a complete lie and fabrication then he wouldn't be a Christian martyr then would he? Why would would he be an apologist for something he knew to be a lie? Why would he die for a lie?

Maybe he didn't think it was a lie. He actually said in another apology that the only reason these similarities between Jesus and the Pagan Gods exist is because, get this... the Devil went back in time and created those dieties to confuse people about the word of God. Let me see if I can find his own words, then you can try to twist them again. One sec...

"Be well assured, then, Trypho, that I am established in the knowledge of
and faith in the Scriptures by those counterfeits which he who is
called the Devil is said to have performed among the Greeks; just
as some were wrought by the Magi in Egypt, and others by the false
prophets in Elijah's days. For when they tell that Bacchus, son of
Jupiter, was begotten by [Jupiter's) intercourse with Semele, and
that he was the discoverer of the vine; and when they relate, that
being torn in pieces, and having died, he rose again, and ascended
to heaven; and when they introduce wine into his mysteries, do I
not perceive that [the devil] has imitated the prophecy announced
by the patriarch Jacob, and recorded by Moses? ... And when he [the
devil] brings forward AEsculapius as the raiser of the dead and
healer of all diseases, may I not say in this matter likewise he
has imitated the prophecies about Christ? ... And when I hear that
Perseus was begotten of a virgin, I understand that the deceiving
serpent counterfeited this also."

-Justin Martyr (Dial, with Trypho, ch. lxix;
ANF. i, 233.)

So yeah, he admits that the stories of Jesus are exactly the same as the Pagan Gods but the reasonable explanation for this is this guy went back in time and 'counterfeited' everything:

http://buelahman.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/satan.jpg

My sources indicate that it might have actually been the Super Devil and his jar of marmalade responsible for all the shenanigans.

Stuckey

12-05-2011, 07:14 PM

why was the bible revised so many times? smells fishy to me

TheGreatBlaze

12-05-2011, 07:24 PM

Can you not read, sir? :confusedshrug:

He list clear similarities between the Pagan Gods and his Jesus- born of no sexual union (ie, virgin birth), crucified, died, and rose again. He healed the sick, gave site to the blind, fixed the lame like Aesculapius (who as coincidence would have it was struck down by Zeus because he resurrected Hippolytus ala Lazarus).

I see nowhere in those quotes where he gave specific examples of those miracles happening with those gods. It seems like he picks out one or two that fits one specific god and then one or more that fits another. No where does he mention anything about pagan Egyptian gods like Horus, Dionysus, etc.

So not only does he give specific examples of how Jesus is just like the Pagan Gods, he gives the names of specific Gods who the stories were lifted from :oldlol:

But yeah, he was just talking in generalities.

I have never even heard of those "gods" before I saw them in the quotes you just posted. If they had any sort of historical significance then I'm sure you would hear something about them from time to time. It looks like you're grasping at straws here. I think you should go back and read those quotes in the context that they were written in and gain a better understanding as to why they were written.

Maybe he didn't think it was a lie. He actually said in another apology that the only reason these similarities between Jesus and the Pagan Gods exist is because, get this... the Devil went back in time and created those dieties to confuse people about the word of God. Let me see if I can find his own words, then you can try to twist them again. One sec...

"Be well assured, then, Trypho, that I am established in the knowledge of
and faith in the Scriptures by those counterfeits which he who is
called the Devil is said to have performed among the Greeks; just
as some were wrought by the Magi in Egypt, and others by the false
prophets in Elijah's days. For when they tell that Bacchus, son of
Jupiter, was begotten by [Jupiter's) intercourse with Semele, and
that he was the discoverer of the vine; and when they relate, that
being torn in pieces, and having died, he rose again, and ascended
to heaven; and when they introduce wine into his mysteries, do I
not perceive that [the devil] has imitated the prophecy announced
by the patriarch Jacob, and recorded by Moses? ... And when he [the
devil] brings forward AEsculapius as the raiser of the dead and
healer of all diseases, may I not say in this matter likewise he
has imitated the prophecies about Christ? ... And when I hear that
Perseus was begotten of a virgin, I understand that the deceiving
serpent counterfeited this also."

-Justin Martyr (Dial, with Trypho, ch. lxix;
ANF. i, 233.)

So yeah, he admits that the stories of Jesus are exactly the same as the Pagan Gods but the reasonable explanation for this is this guy went back in time and 'counterfeited' everything:

http://buelahman.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/satan.jpg

My sources indicate that it might have actually been the Super Devil and his jar of marmalade responsible for everything.
Oversimplifying other worldviews does nothing to help your case, you clearly know nothing about Biblical Christianity if you think Satan/Lucifer is a little red man with a pitch fork and horns. Another legend that has evolved with corrupt men over the years. I personally believe there is a spiritual world that is unseen with good and evil, and those forces can and do affect the events that happen here on this earth. Satan knows scripture, he also knows who Jesus is (he used to worship him). You may not take it seriously based on your presuppositions but there is a strong chance that what he quotes here is a historical fact

Stuckey

12-05-2011, 07:25 PM

found this on reddit

http://reinep.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/comparison_of_some_life_events_of_horus_and_jesus. jpg

TheGreatBlaze

12-05-2011, 07:30 PM

why was the bible revised so many times? smells fishy to me
English is the most complex language ever and has changed many times over the years, updates were necessary. Dost thou agree? Nothing in the actual texts have been changed, this was actually proven with the discovery of the dead sea scrolls which before hand the Christian scriptures were under a lot of scrutiny for possibly being altered to fit prophecies of Christ. What we have now in the Bible is a result of the earlier known manuscripts that we can find, dating back to about 2 and a half decades after the crucifixion of Jesus.

The bible was originally written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, so no translation can be perfect we have to go by the closest possible word that makes sense for it in the English language. The King James version was an accurate translation at the time but there are some errors in it compared to never revised versions (words like "unicorns", "giants" etc) But these have been properly translated in newer versions. Luckily the basic message of the Bible has never been altered: accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and you will be saved.

TheGreatBlaze

12-05-2011, 07:31 PM

found this on reddit

Can you give this a watch and tell me what you think please?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD40xi9KdqE&list=HL1323127886&feature=mh_lolz

DonDadda59

12-05-2011, 07:36 PM

I see nowhere in those quotes where he gave specific examples of those miracles happening with those gods. It seems like he picks out one or two that fits one specific god and then one or more that fits another. No where does he mention anything about pagan Egyptian gods like Horus, Dionysus, etc.

Then my worst fears have been realized... you can't read. :(

He clearly, CLEARLY makes specific parallels between Jesus and the Pagan Gods. Jesus being born of the word like the God Mercury. Jesus being born of a virgin like Perseus. Jesus healing the lame, giving sight to the blind, resurrecting the dead like Aesculapius. If you can't see that then you either can't read properly, you're being coy, or you're incredibly dense.

BTW, Dionysus is one of the sons of Jupiter who is also known as Bacchus, and he's not Egyptian he was Greek and then later adopted by the Romans (similar to your Yeshua, but I digress). Justin does specifically mention him, learn to read.

I have never even heard of those "gods" before I saw them in the quotes you just posted. If they had any sort of historical significance then I'm sure you would hear something about them from time to time. It looks like you're grasping at straws here. I think you should go back and read those quotes in the context that they were written in and gain a better understanding as to why they were written.

So you've seriously never heard of Zeus/Jupiter, Dionysus/Bacchus, Mercury?

Then you need to not only study up on the history of your own religion... but History in general.

Oversimplifying other worldviews does nothing to help your case, you clearly know nothing about Biblical Christianity if you think Satan/Lucifer is a little red man with a pitch fork and horns. Another legend that has evolved with corrupt men over the years. I personally believe there is a spiritual world that is unseen with good and evil, and those forces can and do affect the events that happen here on this earth. Satan knows scripture, he also knows who Jesus is (he used to worship him). You may not take it seriously based on your presuppositions but there is a strong chance that what he quotes here is a historical fact

Neh.

Stuckey

12-05-2011, 07:37 PM

can you tell me what jesus was doing from age 12- 30?

and what happened after he was resurrected? he went off to retirement?

TheGreatBlaze

12-05-2011, 07:46 PM

Then my worst fears have been realized... you can't read. :(

He clearly, CLEARLY makes specific parallels between Jesus and the Pagan Gods. Jesus being born of the word like the God Mercury. Jesus being born of a virgin like Perseus. Jesus healing the lame, giving sight to the blind, resurrecting the dead like Aesculapius. If you can't see that then you either can't read properly, you're being coy, or you're incredibly dense.

BTW, Dionysus is one of the sons of Jupiter who is also known as Bacchus, and he's not Egyptian he was Greek and then later adopted by the Romans (similar to your Yeshua, but I digress). Justin does specifically mention him, learn to read.

I see resulting to personal attacks is your strongest argument, therefore no argument. Because someone wrote a story about a "god" healing people and resurrecting the dead holds no historical weight on whether or not the miracles of Jesus of Nazareth are true or not. Sounds like you've been swallowing up all these pagan myths hook line and sinker. May I ask what religion you are?

So you've seriously never heard of Zeus/Jupiter, Dionysus/Bacchus, Mercury?

Then you need to not only study up on the history of your own religion... but History in general.

I've heard of Zeus, never once heard anything about him raising people from the dead or healing the blind. I put no stock in these so-called "gods". There is one thing they all have in common, they are trying to be God, the living God. If I were to write a name down on a piece of paper and call it a "god", would that have just as much credibility to you as God of the bible? Keep in mind this has been done thousands of times before in the past. Knowledge of God was given in Genesis 1:1, the rest is of man and their vain imaginations. I put my faith in the Lord and the word of God, which by the way is proven over and over again archaeologically. Putting faith in fallible men is ignorance, they have been wrong billions of times before and will be wrong again.

Neh.
Brilliant retort, thank you.

DonDadda59

12-05-2011, 07:56 PM

I see resulting to personal attacks is your strongest argument, therefore no argument. Because someone wrote a story about a "god" healing people and resurrecting the dead holds no historical weight on whether or not the miracles of Jesus of Nazareth are true or not. Sounds like you've been swallowing up all these pagan myths hook line and sinker. May I ask what religion you are?

Snake handler till the day I die :banana:

And where did I attack you personally? Just saying, if you can't comprehend simple comparisons then that's on you. And the fact that Justin Martyr not only acknowledges these Gods you've never heard of but also says their life, death, resurrection stories are identical to Jesus' should tell you all you need to know. But yeah, I'm the one buying bullshit stories and recycled myths 'hook line sinker'. Oh the irony! :oldlol:

I've heard of Zeus, never once heard anything about him raising people from the dead or healing the blind. I put no stock in these so-called "gods". There is one thing they all have in common, they are trying to be God, the living God. If I were to write a name down on a piece of paper and call it a "god", would that have just as much credibility to you as God of the bible? Keep in mind this has been done thousands of times before in the past. Knowledge of God was given in Genesis 1:1, the rest of man and their vain imaginations. I put my faith in the Lord and the word of God, which by the way is proven over and over again archaeologically. Putting faith in fallible men is ignorance, they have been wrong billions of times before and will be wrong again.

Yup.

But now you know about Zeus' son Aesculapius who gave sight to the blind, healed the lame, and resurrected the dead centuries before Yeshua did. Consider this a good old fashioned History lesson courtesy of a Saint of the Church, one of its pioneers and most recognized early leaders. And yours truly of course :cheers:

Brilliant retort, thank you.

You said that it's highly likely that the devil went back in time to create fake Gods that would mirror Jesus' story to confuse humanity. Jussayin :confusedshrug:

TheGreatBlaze

12-05-2011, 08:04 PM

Snake handler till the day I die :banana:

And where did I attack you personally? Just saying, if you can't comprehend simple comparisons then that's on you. And the fact that Justin Martyr not only acknowledges these Gods you've never heard of but also says their life, death, resurrection stories are identical to Jesus' should tell you all you need to know. But yeah, I'm the one buying bullshit stories and recycled myths 'hook line sinker'. Oh the irony! :oldlol:

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. If you choose to put your faith in sketchy stories of probably evil and corrupt men then fine, I choose to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Who btw has forever changed my life.

Yup.

But now you know about Zeus' son Aesculapius who gave sight to the blind, healed the lame, and resurrected the dead centuries before Yeshua did. Consider this a good old fashioned History lesson courtesy of a Saint of the Church, one of its pioneers and most recognized early leaders. And yours truly of course :cheers:

No I don't, I don't believe in Zeus or the myths written about him. But I guess that's where our beliefs differ. I like how you pick out one thing from my reply and choose to put it on blast, weakly I might add.

You said that it's highly likely that the devil went back in time to create fake Gods that would mirror Jesus' story to confuse humanity. Jussayin :confusedshrug:I said it's a possibility, but that's of course because I believe Satan is a real being. He knows who Jesus is.

DonDadda59

12-05-2011, 08:15 PM

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. If you choose to put your faith in sketchy stories of probably evil and corrupt men then fine, I choose to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Who btw has forever changed my life.

YOU changed your life, possibly other people in your life. The idea of your life being solely in your hands probably frightens you but if the idea of some hippie in the sky pulling the strings for you using his pops/himself? helps you sleep better at night. Go nuts :cheers:

But don't discount the extremely high probability that those stories are just that- stories someone or some group made up (stole and recycled is more apt).

No I don't, I don't believe in Zeus or the myths written about him. But I guess that's where our beliefs differ. I like how you pick out one thing from my reply and choose to put it on blast, weakly I might add.

Don't believe in Zeus, but believe stories about him and his sons attributed later to someone else. Makes sense. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

I said it's a possibility, but that's of course because I believe Satan is a real being. He knows who Jesus is.

And I'm saying that the devil going back in time to confuse humanity by replicating Jesus' story in Gods that predate him by centuries is a stretch at best. It's just as likely that a chimp sent into space by the Russians in the 50s found a worm hole that allowed him to go back in time and do what the Devil did. But then that means that the Devil probably possessed said monkey. All this is too damn confusing, I guess we'll never know.

Jussayin' :confusedshrug:

TheGreatBlaze

12-05-2011, 08:19 PM

YOU changed your life, possibly other people in your life. The idea of your life being solely in your hands probably frightens you but if the idea of some hippie in the sky pulling the strings for you using his pops/himself? helps you sleep better at night. Go nuts :cheers:

But don't discount the extremely high probability that those stories are just that- stories someone or some group made up (stole and recycled is more apt).
Yeah ok, I think we're done here. I know what I know and I'm not going to get in a b*tching fest over beliefs. You choose to put faith in what you want to. That's fine.

Don't believe in Zeus, but believe stories about him and his sons attributed later to someone else. Makes sense. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

Again, believe what you want to. Faith is a wonderful thing.

And I'm saying that the devil going back in time to confuse humanity by replicating Jesus' story in Gods that predate him by centuries is a stretch at best. It's just as likely that a chimp sent into space by the Russians in the 50s found a worm hole that allowed him to go back in time and do what the Devil did. But then that means that the Devil probably possessed said monkey. All this is too damn confusing, I guess we'll never know.

Jussayin' :confusedshrug:

:facepalm You're impossible to have a conversation with, sir. Have a good day.

DonDadda59

12-05-2011, 08:23 PM

Yeah ok, I think we're done here. I know what I know and I'm not going to get in a b*tching fest over beliefs. You choose to put faith in what you want to. That's fine.

Again, believe what you want to. Faith is a wonderful thing.

:facepalm You're impossible to have a conversation with, sir. Have a good day.

Not true at all. I think everyone can agree that I can have a conversation on virtually any subject while staying subjective and not getting emotional. But one thing you should know- Papa don't take no mess :pimp:

Have a good one guy.

Dictator

12-05-2011, 08:26 PM

Jesus isn't real.(The Truth)

TheGreatBlaze

12-05-2011, 08:28 PM

Jesus isn't real.(The Truth)
So by saying that I assume you know what truth is. Why are we here? What is the meaning behind existence?

Dictator

12-05-2011, 08:32 PM

So by saying that I assume you know what truth is. Why are we here? What is the meaning behind existence?

What would Jesus's existence have to do with our existence though?

TheGreatBlaze

12-05-2011, 08:34 PM

What would Jesus's existence have to do with our existence though?
Jesus is the Son of God, the Creator of heaven and earth. He is the Word made flesh. He has everything to do with our existence.

Dictator

12-05-2011, 08:37 PM

Jesus is the Son of God, the Creator of heaven and earth. He is the Word made flesh. He has everything to do with our existence.

I'm speaking hypothetically:

What does the son of god has to do with us Humans though? He is a celestial being with his own Heavenly purposes.

Jesus did not create Heaven neither Earth.

TheGreatBlaze

12-05-2011, 08:47 PM

I'm speaking hypothetically:

What does the son of god has to do with us Humans though? He is a celestial being with his own Heavenly purposes.

Jesus Christ was sent to rectify us and make us righteous in the sight of God, in spite of our sinful nature. Because He loves us, He is the sacrificial lamb of God that He has used to atone for the sins of the world. Belief in Him and what He has done for us is seen to God as righteousness on our part. Essentially God has made it easy for us, we are saved by faith, not by good works or upholding the Jewish laws. Because who can be good before a Holy God? There is not one.

One God, Three persons. Much in the same way there is one Bible, yet 66 books.

DonDadda59

12-05-2011, 08:48 PM

I'm speaking hypothetically:

What does the son of god has to do with us Humans though? He is a celestial being with his own Heavenly purposes.

Jesus did not create Heaven neither Earth.

"Maybe not, pendejo. But you pull any of your crazy shit with us, you flash a piece out on the lanes, I'll take it away from you, stick it up your ass and pull the ****ing trigger 'til it goes "click."

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lv2zt1LCz11qmkr8bo1_500.gif

Dictator

12-05-2011, 08:55 PM

Jesus Christ was sent to rectify us and make us righteous in the sight of God, in spite of our sinful nature. Because He loves us, He is the sacrificial lamb of God that He has used to atone for the sins of the world. Belief in Him and what He has done for us is seen to God as righteousness on our part. Essentially God has made it easy for us, we are saved by faith, not by good works or upholding the Jewish laws. Because who can be good before a Holy God? There is not one.

One God, Three persons. Much in the same way there is one Bible, yet 66 books.

Jesus was sent to help us, but that doesn't help our very existence. Have you forgotten, humans were on Earth before Jesus was even born? God could have made or chose any new born baby to fulfill his duties.

Jesus and our existence doesn't relate. We would still be here whether Jesus came or not.

Dictator

12-05-2011, 08:56 PM

"Maybe not, pendejo. But you pull any of your crazy shit with us, you flash a piece out on the lanes, I'll take it away from you, stick it up your ass and pull the ****ing trigger 'til it goes "click."

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lv2zt1LCz11qmkr8bo1_500.gif

What?

DonDadda59

12-05-2011, 09:00 PM

What?

Guessing you've never seen the movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQxM9XEyQPI)

TheGreatBlaze

12-05-2011, 09:02 PM

Jesus was sent to help us, but that doesn't help our very existence. Have you forgotten, humans were on Earth before Jesus was even born? God could have made or chose any new born baby to fulfill his duties.

Jesus and our existence doesn't relate. We would still be here whether Jesus came or not.
John 8:54-58

54 Jesus answered,

Dictator

12-05-2011, 09:12 PM

[QUOTE=TheGreatBlaze]John 8:54-58

54 Jesus answered,

TheGreatBlaze

12-05-2011, 09:22 PM

So you believe Jesus "is" god when he specifically recounts on how great he is and to praise him. Jesus does what God says, not the other way around. Even your own statement shows this:

I still don't see how this relates Jesus and our Existence.

John 1

The Eternal Word

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it.

John

Dictator

12-05-2011, 09:40 PM

[QUOTE=TheGreatBlaze]John 1

The Eternal Word

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it.

John

vitamink420

12-05-2011, 09:42 PM

I've never really heard of atheists or anyone hating Jesus. We just hate the stupid ****s who like to steal/rape/kill in his name.

TheGreatBlaze

12-05-2011, 09:49 PM

Jesus has to wisdom and truth of God. He's nowhere near "God" though. All of these statements are contradicting your state of mind. You're claiming Jesus is God, yet your scriptures say otherwise. Jesus will "never" be on God's level. Jesus wouldn't be here without God. God is self sustained and has been in always. Anyway back to the main question, "How does Jesus relate to man's existence?" He doesn't. God could wipe us all away including Jesus if he wanted to. Jesus lives because of God's mercy, he isn't a god, more like a angel.
I don't know what scriptures you're reading but the ones I am proclaim Jesus as God and Lord. Are you a Jehovah's Witness by chance?

Dictator

12-05-2011, 09:53 PM

I don't know what scriptures you're reading but the ones I am proclaim Jesus as God and Lord. Are you a Jehovah's Witness by chance?

Lol. I'd never be a Jehovahs' witness. Their just as clueless as Christians.

:rant

TheGreatBlaze

12-05-2011, 09:57 PM

Lol. I'd never be a Jehovahs' witness. Their just as clueless as Christians.

:rant
Thanks. And the reason I asked was because what you described in your previous post is pretty much exactly what Jehovah's Witnesses believe. That Jesus is a created being and an angel of God.

Dictator

12-05-2011, 10:00 PM

Thanks. And the reason I asked was because what you described in your previous post is pretty much exactly what Jehovah's Witnesses believe. That Jesus is a created being and an angel of God.

I don't believe in Jesus though. I was being hypothetical when I was posting towards you.

TheGreatBlaze

12-05-2011, 10:02 PM

I don't believe in Jesus though. I was being hypothetical when I was posting towards you.
OK, do you believe the historical person Jesus of Nazareth existed?

Patrick Bateman

12-05-2011, 10:07 PM

Are you a Jehovah's Witness by chance?

Jesus, TheGreatBlaze, what does that have to do with anything?

TheGreatBlaze

12-05-2011, 10:14 PM

Jesus, TheGreatBlaze, what does that have to do with anything?

..........

the reason I asked was because what you described in your previous post is pretty much exactly what Jehovah's Witnesses believe. That Jesus is a created being and an angel of God.

theaussieguy

01-13-2012, 07:29 AM

some serious deluded fuks in here. I dont give a sh!t if its your pecious beliefs. Don't give that "how dare you insult my beliefs' bullsh!t. That is some petty sh!t right there. Straight up, there are hundreds if not thousands of religions. You belive yours is correct over all else? Just the odds alone are very farking slim that the religion you believe in is correct.

im out

ROCSteady

01-13-2012, 12:26 PM

I don't believe in Jesus though. I was being hypothetical when I was posting towards you.

What does this even mean, you dont believe in Jesus? Like as a divine source, entity described in the Bible as Son of Man turning miracles with perfection? His Holy way and how it has forever changed mankind?

Arguing his existence as a human being is like arguing whether or not the Roman Emperor really lived that time. Both people are well documented and cross referenced in many publications.

Nick Young

02-08-2012, 09:21 PM

Timmy D for MVP

02-08-2012, 09:51 PM

Jesus? I don't hate him.

Why in fact, I love the man.

sirkeelma

02-08-2012, 10:04 PM

An interesting blog from a preacher of word of God.
http://esoriano.wordpress.com/2010/01/

Legend of Josh

02-08-2012, 10:07 PM

I dont get it either. I mean even if you dont believe in god, and just look at him as a person he's just an allaround nice guy, ahead of his time, yes it is bad he preaches utopia that is obviously unachievable, and was the first marxist thinker before marx even existed, but he wanted to help out the downtrodden, preached forgiveness, never hurt anybody, what is there to hate about this guy? One of the most charismatic people ever.

Many people in general hate Jesus Christ simply because he's the flagship character in all of the Bible and Christanity. JC obviously wasn't a 'character' however, he was real. He lived a human life, just as everyone else. He experienced real pain, raw emotions, and bled - just as you and I. Unlike you and I though, the man was the true son of God, and lived a pious life beyond that of any man, ever.

Aside from all that, just as Swagfather stated, even if you don't believe in God, or even if you question his entire existence and label him nothing more than a religious 'character' what the hell did he do to you (speaking to those who hate him)? His entire life was centered around bringing people closer to his Father. His love for the world is and will forever be unparalleled.

The simplest (and most accurate) answer is of course, Satan.

You never really hear anyone expressing open hatefulness towards men in the Bible such as Noah, Abraham, David, Job, John the Baptist (however I have heard some people refer to him as 'John the Bastard'), Peter, the Apostle Paul, etc. It's always God, and of course Jesus.

The atheist movement and Christ-hating has reached an all-time high, and it will only unfortunately get worse the further and further we get to the end. To no surprise, this was predicted in God's Word time and time again. Hell, even in the Islam faith, the Quran refers to Jesus as a "holy son" of Allah (God). This would obviously imply that even though they do not believe he was the true Messiah, he was still a respectable man, without fault (sins).

Atheists in particular or those belonging to another religion, sometimes seem to get off on Christ-bashing. I suppose it makes them feel all giddy inside and they giggle thinking to themselves "hey, look at me! I said fu*k you Jesus! Haha, take that God! Strike me down! Oh wait, you didn't! Haha, atheists win, Christians lose!"

As silly and ridiculous as that sounds, we all know it's commonplace (to say the least). Sad really, because even if you don't believe in Christ, you could look at the life he lived, and if you applied it to your own personal life, you could greatly benefit from it.

Smoke117

02-09-2012, 12:17 AM

usa hoops

02-09-2012, 12:26 AM

Legend of Josh

02-09-2012, 01:06 AM

I don't hate him but I stopped believing in fairy tales a long time ago. There is no god, there is no heaven, and there is no hell. It's fabricated to make you sleep better at night thinking if you do good deeds you'll end up in a great place and to make people feel better about their mortality. Religion is a joke. More people have been killed in the name of God than anything else.

Yeah man, you're right. You have it all figured out. God, Santa Claus, flying 'getti monster, what's the difference? One gives you presents if you're good, one provides His children the opportunity to extend their earthly life beyond the grave and loves all of His creations equally all the while gave you the very breath you breathe and your entire existence (period), and the other is a lame childish creation from one of the most arrogant, prideful and self-centered people on the planet.

Apples to apples or apples and oranges? I mean, come on, seriously, comparing God/Creator to some typical children's fairy tale is the most played out, narrow-minded, elementary ideology probably ever. I'm trying really hard not to come off offensive here, but damn, people on your parallel of thinking need to superlatively step up your mental game.

:sleeping

... and to your statement in bold ...

Let me correct you. More people have been killed in the name of money and power than anything else. It is commonly believed by those lacking common sense that it's God and/or religion, but obviously that is nothing more than a mask, a cover up, because the real motive behind all wars is truly like I said, power and money.

That's like saying the US going to war in the middle east is all about promoting democracy, and not natural resources.

:rolleyes:

Big_Dogg

02-09-2012, 02:40 AM

Let me correct you. More people have been killed in the name of money and power than anything else. It is commonly believed by those lacking common sense that it's God and/or religion, but obviously that is nothing more than a mask, a cover up, because the real motive behind all wars is truly like I said, power and money.

In the years of the crusades, the inquisition and throughout medieval times, who had the most of both of those and stood to lose the most, the Church, the catholic church is the worlds biggest owner of prime land in the world, yet it pays no taxes and always asks for money from it's constituents.

Money and power indeed, when you have it, you want to hold onto it, if you lose believers, you lose money and power, so you do whatever it takes to make the unbelievable believable in whatever way is necessary.

The same church that puts stock in the bible it so revels in also wrote idiotic things like the Malleus Maleficarum (Hammer of the Witches or The Witches Hammer depending on dialect of latin you are interpreting from) which burnt women at the stake for witch craft, and we know that book was a bunch of bullshit, what makes the bible any different than any other other fantasy and fairy tales the church comes up with?

And don't go quoting the writing of the gospels from the 4 guys who never met him and the psycho who wrote a verse on an island in exile while on hallucinogenic mushrooms.

Don't pretend to educate or correct people without thinking that your argument can be turned right back around at you.

Not a personal attack, just sayin

Nick Young

02-09-2012, 07:08 AM

I don't hate him but I stopped believing in fairy tales a long time ago. There is no god, there is no heaven, and there is no hell. It's fabricated to make you sleep better at night thinking if you do good deeds you'll end up in a great place and to make people feel better about their mortality. Religion is a joke. More people have been killed in the name of God than anything else.
LAWL that is completely and blatantly wrong. Did Bill Maher tell you to say that?

First of all consider that the world didn't even reach 1 billion in population until 200 years ago. In the year 1000 the world population was only 300 million.
During the times of the crusades, the earth's population was only between 300 million and 500 million
http://www.paulchefurka.ca/World%20Population.JPG

Stalin death count: 20 million
Hitler death count: 11 million
French Revolution, an atheist revolution, 30,000 total guillotined during the reign of terror which lasted eleven months. In contrast, the Witch hunts lasting between 1450 and 1750 killed around 50,000
So yeh the Christians killed alot of witches over 300 years, but the Atheists nearly caught up to them in just one year.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071221224301AAB7M3H
No one has exact numbers, but during the crusades it is estimated there were 15,000 to 25,000 men on each side. So a total of 50,000 men. Even if all of them died, which they didn't, that is 50,000 fatalities in the name of God (not really, more like in the name of a corrupt pope). Stalin the atheist killed more than 400 times that amount of men.

Face reality kids.

More people have been killed in the name of Atheism than in the name of God.

Swagfather dropping knowledge like Galileo dropped the orange:rockon:

http://www.gendercide.org/case_witchhunts.html
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071221224301AAB7M3H
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071221224301AAB7M3H

Smoke117

02-09-2012, 07:15 AM

Nick Young

02-09-2012, 07:31 AM

Does it really matter in the end? We all gotta die sometime. I was raised catholic, but i'm an atheist now. If God was so powerful my life wouldn't be such dog shit, so if he does exist he can eat garbage. Why do people believe in something that hasn't been proven. Trust me I know all the stories. You don't go to catholic school from kinder to high school without learning a thing or too. Doesn't mean I have to believe it, but I know it. If God does exist than he's a ****ing asshole.
Yeah we're all gonna die and we only get one life. So instead of wallowing in mediocrity and defeatism why not work on making your short time on earth as enjoyable and epic as possible? What's the point of surrendering and accepting the current hand of cards fate has dealt you, that's just giving up before you even try.

Here's my philosophy.

You can't have light without dark. If everything was good and there was nothing bad ever happening to anyone, no one would appreciate their good life. Like in Brave New World kind of.

I'm not saying God is like some giant old beard guy puppet master up in the sky manipulate the world, I think we as humans can't comprehend what God is or how it works so we just stick a human image on it.

The darkest light is just before dawn kid, if your life really is so shitty, that just means you should work that much harder to improve it.

Smoke117

02-09-2012, 07:38 AM

Yeah we're all gonna die and we only get one life. So instead of wallowing in mediocrity and defeatism why not work on making your short time on earth as enjoyable and epic as possible? What's the point of surrendering and accepting the current hand of cards fate has dealt you, that's just giving up before you even try.

Here's my philosophy.

You can't have light without dark. If everything was good and there was nothing bad ever happening to anyone, no one would appreciate their good life. Like in Brave New World kind of.

I'm not saying God is like some giant old beard guy puppet master up in the sky manipulate the world, I think we as humans can't comprehend what God is or how it works so we just stick a human image on it.

The darkest light is just before dawn kid, if your life really is so shitty, that just means you should work that much harder to improve it.

Some people just give up. You know what they say about drunks, we are the cowards of the world, because we choose to just numb and forget. I'm sure my liver isn't happy about my habit, but I've been in the ICU before, doesn't bother me. Hey when they pump your stomach and your throat hurts like shit later they give you morphine...not a bad deal no?

Nick Young

02-09-2012, 07:56 AM

Some people just give up. You know what they say about drunks, we are the cowards of the world, because we choose to just numb and forget. I'm sure my liver isn't happy about my habit, but I've been in the ICU before, doesn't bother me. Hey when they pump your stomach and your throat hurts like shit later they give you morphine...not a bad deal no?
So basically you hate God and religion because it didn't give you a cake walk life where every one loves you, everything is easy and you never feel any negative emotions and no negative events ever happen to you.

Smoke117

02-09-2012, 07:59 AM

So basically you hate God and religion because it didn't give you a cake walk life where every one loves you, everything is easy and you never feel any negative emotions and no negative events ever happen to you.
I don't blame anyone but myself. Nobody can hate you as much as you hate yourself.

"Some are bound for happiness,
some are bound to glory
Some are bound to live with less,
who can tell your story?"

Legend of Josh

02-10-2012, 03:11 PM

In the years of the crusades, the inquisition and throughout medieval times, who had the most of both of those and stood to lose the most, the Church, the catholic church is the worlds biggest owner of prime land in the world, yet it pays no taxes and always asks for money from it's constituents.

Money and power indeed, when you have it, you want to hold onto it, if you lose believers, you lose money and power, so you do whatever it takes to make the unbelievable believable in whatever way is necessary.

The same church that puts stock in the bible it so revels in also wrote idiotic things like the Malleus Maleficarum (Hammer of the Witches or The Witches Hammer depending on dialect of latin you are interpreting from) which burnt women at the stake for witch craft, and we know that book was a bunch of bullshit, what makes the bible any different than any other other fantasy and fairy tales the church comes up with?

And don't go quoting the writing of the gospels from the 4 guys who never met him and the psycho who wrote a verse on an island in exile while on hallucinogenic mushrooms.

Don't pretend to educate or correct people without thinking that your argument can be turned right back around at you.

Not a personal attack, just sayin

Personally, the Catholic Church and everything it's about, is exactly what I'm NOT about. The Catholic Church is probably the # 1 reason why so many people are against Christianity. There's so much more to the religion than just the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church to me seems like a corporation, not a religious institution. To me, the church is corrupt b/c of money and power, and therefore, all these people you say are killed in the 'name of God' is not accurate. Those people were killed b/c of money and power.

Never compare apples and oranges.

Legend of Josh

02-10-2012, 03:26 PM

Does it really matter in the end? We all gotta die sometime. I was raised catholic, but i'm an atheist now. If God was so powerful my life wouldn't be such dog shit, so if he does exist he can eat garbage. Why do people believe in something that hasn't been proven. Trust me I know all the stories. You don't go to catholic school from kinder to high school without learning a thing or too. Doesn't mean I have to believe it, but I know it. If God does exist than he's a ****ing asshole.

You really need to go back to the drawing board. Your personal feelings do not equate to the non-existence of God/Creator. I'm assuming you're rather youthful, maybe even still in high school. Not to knock you, but I hope that's the case. You should allow your mind to explore deeper waters - you're currently in the kiddy pool section.

Whether or not you believe in God, He still created you, and yes, of course He still loves you. You're making your life out to be shit, but don't blame God. Blame man, or blame yourself. You have the luxury of using a keyboard and the internet, when you could very well just have been born into some third world nation eating out of a trashcan. Perhaps we should be more thankful from time to time, no?

Legend of Josh

02-10-2012, 03:30 PM

I don't blame anyone but myself. Nobody can hate you as much as you hate yourself.

"Some are bound for happiness,
some are bound to glory
Some are bound to live with less,
who can tell your story?"

I'll be praying for you. I know, I know, you don't want it, you could care less. Doesn't matter. I don't even know you, but that doesn't mean I can't love you, or care about you. I don't know you personally, but I know your situation here, and that in itself makes it personal since you have shared.

Hazard

02-10-2012, 03:37 PM

don't blame God
That has always bothered me. I know I know more of the same shit from me. But if we cant blame God when things are bad, why should we thank him when things are good?

lakers_forever

02-10-2012, 07:15 PM

found this on reddit

http://reinep.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/comparison_of_some_life_events_of_horus_and_jesus. jpg

It's funny that people keep repeating this bs like it's true, just because they saw it on the net or at the movies like Zeitgeist and Religulous.

A little reading might show the truth, that this Horus-Jesus thing was created by a poet ("self educated" egyptologist, in other words a lamer) named Gerald Massey.

Most real egyptologists tell us that those comparisons make no sense at all. Still atheists (who are supposed to like facts) keep repeating all that BS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Massey

The wikipedia article about Massey's theories (you can find all the references there):

"One of the more sensational aspects of Massey's writings were the parallels he drew between the Christian god Jesus of Nazareth and the Egyptian god Horus. These comparisons are primarily contained in his book The Natural Genesis. Massey's writings on this subject have influenced various later authors such as Alvin Boyd Kuhn, Tom Harpur, and Acharya S.[5]

Some of the similarities that Massey claimed existed are that they both

Were born of virgins on December 25
Taught in a temple as a child at age 12
Were teachers who had 12 Disciples
Were baptized in a river
Gave a sermon on the mount
Healed the sick
Raised men from the dead (El-Asar-Us for Horus, Lazarus for Jesus)
Died by crucifixion
Were resurrected three days later.[6]

At the same time, most contemporary Egyptologists believe these parallels are not true and are pseudo-scientific.[7][8][9][10][11][12] In particular they point out that sources make no mention of these facts in the life of Horus, and that the celebration of Jesus' birth on December 25 was chosen for political reasons and was never claimed to be the actual date of his birth.[10] However, W. Ward Gasque conducted a world-wide poll of twenty leading Egyptologists - including Professor Kenneth Kitchen of the University of Liverpool and Ron Leprohan, Professor of Egyptology at the University of Toronto - in Canada, US, UK, Australia, Germany, and Austria to verify if there was any academic support for these claims. The scholars were unanimous in dismissing the claimed parallels. One scholar, who called it "fringe nonsense", also cautioned that "[e]gyptology has the unenviable distinction of being one of those disciplines that almost anyone can lay claim to, and the unfortunate distinction of being probably the one most beleaguered by false prophets.".[13] "

Yep. I guess all the egyptologists are wrong and Bill Maher or some guy in the internet is right.

Lebron23

02-10-2012, 07:20 PM

Rasheed1

02-10-2012, 08:00 PM

@ laker forever

there are more parallels to other religions as well....Check Mithra and Krishna... there are similarities there too..

lakers_forever

02-11-2012, 12:58 AM

@ laker forever

there are more parallels to other religions as well....Check Mithra and Krishna... there are similarities there too..

What are the similarities with Mithra? Most stuff you find in online forums are considered false by experts just like the Horus thing.

Legend of Josh

02-11-2012, 01:05 AM

What are the similarities with Mithra? Most stuff you find in online forums are considered false by experts just like the Horus thing.

So we're now using the 'net and 'online forums' to determine what's religiously true and false?

:facepalm

God help this next generation.

lakers_forever

02-11-2012, 01:08 AM

So we're now using the 'net and 'online forums' to determine what's religiously true and false?

:facepalm

God help this next generation.

?!?! I'm saying the opposite, not to trust what you read in forums (or movies by comedians like Bill Maher) and actually look for articles and books to know the opinion of experts, people who are not lamers.

Legend of Josh

02-11-2012, 01:13 AM

?!?! I'm saying the opposite, not to trust what you read in forums (or movies by comedians like Bill Maher) and actually look for articles and books to know the opinion of experts, people who are not lamers.

If I read into that incorrectly, then my apollogeez.

lakers_forever

02-11-2012, 01:15 AM

If I read into that incorrectly, then my apollogeez.

:cheers:

highwhey

02-11-2012, 01:23 AM

found this on reddit

http://reinep.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/comparison_of_some_life_events_of_horus_and_jesus. jpg
holy moly. is this straight out of wikipedia? 99% of that is false. jesus was not born on dec 25. that's a pegan holiday! that's why it's assimilated to the sun god. jesus was not even born during winter. :facepalm

I don't know what scriptures you're reading but the ones I am proclaim Jesus as God and Lord. Are you a Jehovah's Witness by chance?
jesus is not god.

Rasheed1

02-12-2012, 01:09 PM

What are the similarities with Mithra? Most stuff you find in online forums are considered false by experts just like the Horus thing.

You should look it up..... christians should research christianity's similarities to all religions. You will find that the christian religion is no more real than any other religion.

the stories in the Bible are stories recycled from other religions. The fact that all these stories are closely related is the dead giveaway.

When I was young, I was a christian, and I used to laugh at the greeks and the romans and other groups because I saw how clear it was that their beliefs were lifted from another religion's beliefs. The same goes for christianity.

If christians could get beyond that fact and simply focus on the message, christians would be more representative of Jesus Christ who they claim to follow and emulate

lakers_forever

02-12-2012, 02:20 PM

You should look it up..... christians should research christianity's similarities to all religions. You will find that the christian religion is no more real than any other religion.

the stories in the Bible are stories recycled from other religions. The fact that all these stories are closely related is the dead giveaway.

When I was young, I was a christian, and I used to laugh at the greeks and the romans and other groups because I saw how clear it was that their beliefs were lifted from another religion's beliefs. The same goes for christianity.

If christians could get beyond that fact and simply focus on the message, christians would be more representative of Jesus Christ who they claim to follow and emulate

Sorry, but you still have not said anything.

It's not "more real" for you. If your life is fine that way, so be it. It's real for me (in the sense that I believe it to be true) and my life is great that way. In the end, a believer and a non believer share the same doubt* (you think Christianity is false, I think it's true, either of us can be 100% sure about anything), one that will only figure out when we die. Acting like research will lead to non belief is very arrogant and just not true. I read a lot about religions, atheism and it has not affected my faith at all (it has made it even stronger). You can research all you want, in the end it will be a matter of faith, one that you, for your own reasons that should be respected, apparently have lost.

You have every right not to believe in Jesus as a religious figure, but not believing does not give people a pass to invent lies or act like Bill Maher and internet morons suddenly know more than the real experts.

Mithra was born fully man out of a rock and then, he slayed a bull. Also it's not cleared if he ever died (and no sign of ressurection). Where are the Mithra comparisons to Jesus again?

*Current Pope (yes, the Pope) on the subject:

Both the believer and the unbeliever share, each in his own way, doubt and belief, if they do not hide from themselves and from the truth of their being. Neither can quite escape either doubt or belief; for the one, faith is present against doubt; for the other, through doubt and in the form of doubt. It is the basic pattern of man’s destiny only to be allowed to find the finality of his existence in this unceasing rivalry between doubt and belief, temptation and certainty. Perhaps in precisely this way doubt, which saves both sides from being shut up in their own worlds, could become the avenue of communication. It prevents both from enjoying complete self-satisfaction; it opens up the believer to the doubter and the doubter to the believer; for one, it is his share in the fate of the unbeliever; for the other, the form in which belief remains nevertheless a challenge to him.

gigantes

02-12-2012, 02:55 PM

holy moly. is this straight out of wikipedia? 99% of that is false. jesus was not born on dec 25. that's a pegan holiday! that's why it's assimilated to the sun god. jesus was not even born during winter. :facepalm
if you had actually read the chart, you would have noticed that it said "celebrated on." your point is therefore irrelevant.

the chart looks good from my memory of college religion and mythologies classes...

Rasheed1

02-12-2012, 03:09 PM

Sorry, but you still have not said anything.

It's not "more real" for you. If your life is fine that way, so be it. It's real for me (in the sense that I believe it to be true) and my life is great that way. In the end, a believer and a non believer share the same doubt* (you think Christianity is false, I think it's true, either of us can be 100% sure about anything), one that will only figure out when we die. Acting like research will lead to non belief is very arrogant and just not true. I read a lot about religions, atheism and it has not affected my faith at all (it has made it even stronger). You can research all you want, in the end it will be a matter of faith, one that you, for your own reasons that should be respected, apparently have lost.

The truth is that there is no such thing as "more real for you". Either an event is factually true or it isnt. People can try (and they often do) to pick their own reality, but the real world still exists and you cannot ignore it forever.

You have every right not to believe in Jesus as a religious figure, but not believing does not give people a pass to invent lies or act like Bill Maher and internet morons suddenly know more than the real experts.

what lies has Bill Maher invented? (im curious to know)

Mithra was born fully man out of a rock and then, he slayed a bull. Also it's not cleared if he ever died (and no sign of ressurection). Where are the Mithra comparisons to Jesus again?

Like I said earlier... You should look it up if you truly care. There are more comparisons to other religions. The point is that these stories have been told before. Alot of them are based in various symbolism. Christianity is no different from the other religions.

If you research these stories and you are honest with yourself, it becomes obvious

*Current Pope (yes, the Pope) on the subject:

^you quoted the pope? I dont respect the pope :facepalm ...

[quote]Both the believer and the unbeliever share, each in his own way, doubt and belief, if they do not hide from themselves and from the truth of their being. Neither can quite escape either doubt or belief; for the one, faith is present against doubt; for the other, through doubt and in the form of doubt. It is the basic pattern of man

lakers_forever

02-12-2012, 04:05 PM

The truth is that there is no such thing as "more real for you". Either an event is factually true or it isnt. People can try (and they often do) to pick their own reality, but the real world still exists and you cannot ignore it forever.

Science can't prove or disprove God. It's a matter of faith, altough there are several reasonable philosofical arguments in favour of God's existence. Again, there's no absolute truth at all here. Not even Dawkins claim to be 100% sure there is no God.

what lies has Bill Maher invented? (im curious to know)

Basically all that nonsense in his movie that Jesus story is just a rip off of Horus (lying about several facts regarding him) when all the top experts in the Egypt say those comparisons don't make any sense and are full of mistakes.

Like I said earlier... You should look it up if you truly care. There are more comparisons to other religions. The point is that these stories have been told before. Alot of them are based in various symbolism. Christianity is no different from the other religions.

You still have not said anything about those comparisons.

If you research these stories and you are honest with yourself, it becomes obvious.

I see. A honest man will become a non-believer. :facepalm That's a very intolerant opinion.

^you quoted the pope? I dont respect the pope :facepalm ... .

You not "respecting" him does not make his words useless. :facepalm

^ That comment is a bunch of nonsense. People dont believe because they have studied the religion and others long enough to understand that it is simply a story.

There is no doubt... that is where the 'infallible' pope is wrong

I studied religion from the day I entered school. I went to christian academy, from there I went to catholic school and became an alter boy. I studied with muslims at Claire Muhammed in my early 20s.

I have seen enough religion to understand what is actually happening.

Religion is simply a tool. When it is used properly, it can civilize whole societies and bring people together under one positive message. When it is used improperly, it becomes a noose around the neck of the people and it constricts their growth and keeps them slave to ideas that keep them ignorant and living in fear.

I gave up religion and the truth has set me free. :cheers:

He was not even a Pope when he wrote that. Funny that you say it's non sense and don't show any argument why.

There is no doubt? The "truth" has set you free? lol. My God. You have all the anwsers then. You claim with 100% certainty there is no God then? Do you undestand that with this statment, you get the burden of proof to yourself?

Religion has its problems, no doubt about that. Churches are ruled by men afterall.

Good to know your life is better. Mine is great as it is. :cheers:

Legend of Josh

02-12-2012, 07:27 PM

Science can't prove or disprove God. It's a matter of faith, altough there are several reasonable philosofical arguments in favour of God's existence. Again, there's no absolute truth at all here. Not even Dawkins claim to be 100% sure there is no God.

Basically all that nonsense in his movie that Jesus story is just a rip off of Horus (lying about several facts regarding him) when all the top experts in the Egypt say those comparisons don't make any sense and are full of mistakes.

You still have not said anything about those comparisons.

I see. A honest man will become a non-believer. :facepalm That's a very intolerant opinion.

You not "respecting" him does not make his words useless. :facepalm

He was not even a Pope when he wrote that. Funny that you say it's non sense and don't show any argument why.

There is no doubt? The "truth" has set you free? lol. My God. You have all the anwsers then. You claim with 100% certainty there is no God then? Do you undestand that with this statment, you get the burden of proof to yourself?

Religion has its problems, no doubt about that. Churches are ruled by men afterall.

Good to know your life is better. Mine is great as it is. :cheers:

^ ... well said. Very.

rezznor

02-12-2012, 07:48 PM

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/thanks-jesus-for-this-food-de-nada.jpg

Legend of Josh

02-12-2012, 07:54 PM

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/thanks-jesus-for-this-food-de-nada.jpg

I don't think you get the point. And while you're trying to prove another one, it crumbles beneath it all. There's nothing wrong with taking four seconds at a dinner table to say thanks to a deity that a family believes in for their meal.

Now you want to rain on their parade with silly 'net pics like no dont thank JC, thank the worker who picked your blah blah instead.

Again... you're missing the point.

Rasheed1

02-12-2012, 08:39 PM

Science can't prove or disprove God. It's a matter of faith, altough there are several reasonable philosofical arguments in favour of God's existence. Again, there's no absolute truth at all here. Not even Dawkins claim to be 100% sure there is no God............

There is no doubt? The "truth" has set you free? lol. My God. You have all the anwsers then. You claim with 100% certainty there is no God then? Do you undestand that with this statment, you get the burden of proof to yourself?

^ I didnt say "there is no God" :no: I said the christian religion is based in the same stories as other religions..

Big difference there and you should understand it....

I never said I was 100% sure that there is no God or or race of beings.

Im speaking on religion in general and christianity specifically

Basically all that nonsense in his movie that Jesus story is just a rip off of Horus (lying about several facts regarding him) when all the top experts in the Egypt say those comparisons don't make any sense and are full of mistakes.

I havent seen his movie, but I know that there alot similarities between Christianity and many religions.

you still have not said anything about those comparisons.

Because Im too old to play the ISH internet game where I bring you a ton of information and you spend all day trying prove why each and every piece is not relevant and discredit everyone in them...

I couldnt care less about any of that. Im just pointing out the fact that there are plenty of similarities between christianity ad other religions, some older than christianity.

Like I said, if you really want to read about them, you'll look them up. I wont waste time trying to force you to accept anything that you wouldnt otherwise.

I see. A honest man will become a non-believer. :facepalm That's a very intolerant opinion.

No. An honest person will believe the truth when it becomes obvious. being a 'believer' doesnt carry any value in itself. Some things are not believable.

He was not even a Pope when he wrote that. Funny that you say it's non sense and don't show any argument why.

The pope and roman catholic church have soo much nonsense going on with them that I wont even get into the institution & the pope and why I dont respect him and wouldnt value his word on anything.

People that do not believe in the bible do not arrive at that opinion on sheer doubt or just some sense of "eh, I dont buy it" lol. They arrive their by thinking about it. Researching it.

Its not some sort of struggle... Its a growth process.

Its like not believing in Santa anymore.. you and you realize you can still have the christmas 'spirit' without being so literal about Santa.

Religion has its problems, no doubt about that. Churches are ruled by men afterall.

Good to know your life is better. Mine is great as it is. :cheers:

It doesnt have anything to do with 'who's life is better' it has to do with growing to a point where you dont need religion anymore.

but I can never turn down a good cheers! :cheers:

Hazard

02-12-2012, 09:20 PM

CelticBaller

02-12-2012, 11:07 PM

vinsane01

02-12-2012, 11:32 PM

There's no logic or reason behind faith, that's why this argument will never have an end. That photo that rezznor posted hit the nail on the head. People need to start being grateful to the people that keep them healthy and fed, instead of thanking your imaginary friend when its the doctors who work tirelessly to save your life, or farmers out there sweating to provide you with food.

That is one of my minor annoyance with the religious. You'll even see some people forgetting to be grateful towards the doctors who were directly responsible for saving their lives. No, it wasnt a miracle. The surgeons and staff were damn good at what they do. They are the reason why you are alive.

I wouldn't discredit faith in it's entirety though. You could have faith in things other than the supernatural. I have faith in my fellow man and our future.

I believe that our specie can live in a secular environment. Where we as a collective share the same secular philosophy. I believe that one day we'll share the same interest and work together towards a common goal. Where reason and secular morality would reign and be the basis of our decisions. Where war, hunger, poverty and lack of education is a thing of the past. I believe that in the future, when our most temporal troubles are resolved, our curiosity would finally lead us to explore our inner and outer universe..... You may say im a dreamer but i know im not the only one. :D

Bladers

02-12-2012, 11:58 PM

Big_Dogg

02-13-2012, 12:04 AM

Let me ask you something. Do you know what Historical fact is?

Coming from you who quotes the bible as historical fact, don't you think that's a bit of a hypocritical question? :confusedshrug:

Bladers

02-13-2012, 12:24 AM

Coming from you who quotes the bible as historical fact, don't you think that's a bit of a hypocritical question? :confusedshrug:

Isn't that why I asked the Q so we can determine the definition of "historical fact" so we establish something and have a base to move on from.
This is to avoid back-pedaling or changing of the goal post

So I ask again, to you or whosoever whom decides to answer. Do you know what Historical fact is?

fos

02-13-2012, 12:32 AM

He smell like eggs.

Hazard

02-13-2012, 12:36 AM

That is one of my minor annoyance with the religious. You'll even see some people forgetting to be grateful towards the doctors who were directly responsible for saving their lives. No, it wasnt a miracle. The surgeons and staff were damn good at what they do. They are the reason why you are alive.

I wouldn't discredit faith in it's entirety though. You could have faith in things other than the supernatural. I have faith in my fellow man and our future.

I believe that our specie can live in a secular environment. Where we as a collective share the same secular philosophy. I believe that one day we'll share the same interest and work together towards a common goal. Where reason and secular morality would reign and be the basis of our decisions. Where war, hunger, poverty and lack of education is a thing of the past. I believe that in the future, when our most temporal troubles are resolved, our curiosity would finally lead us to explore our inner and outer universe..... You may say im a dreamer but i know im not the only one. :D
I was thinking of this song while reading your post :oldlol: