***Who was the Closer for the 00-02 Lakers?***

[32Dayz]

PART 1

Sup everyone.

I've just finished a couple weeks worth of research compiling some data that wouldn't otherwise be available anywhere online or in any reference materiel.
This Data was compiled from every 4th Quarter from every playoff game the LA Lakers played from 2000-2002.
I was able to gather perhaps 99% of the Data I wanted from these games.

There was a small amount of Data I was unable to get since 3 games were unavailable to watch online and the play by play for them did not exist for them.
Games 1 and 4 from the 2000 Semi-Finals (LA vs PHO) and game 3 from the 2001 Semi-Finals (LA @ SAC) were unavailable to watch online and have no PBP.
(play by play)


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Most Points Per 4th Quarter
NBA Finals Past 20 Seasons
1995 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5
2000 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5
1997 Michael Jordan 10.7
2011 Dirk Nowitzki 10.3
1993 Michael Jordan 10.3

Many people have been telling me that Shaq from 01-02 was incapable of scoring in the 4th quarter, that somehow his amazing ability to Dominate and Score against most defenses dissipates when the last 12 minute period starts and that Kobe "thankfully" was there to close out games for the Lakers.

I disagreed with this notion, from being a huge LA Fan during the Shaq years I watched most of their playoff games and always felt that Shaq was an "Elite Closer" and that more often then not if he wasn't leading the team in scoring in that Final period he was at the very least contributing a fair amount of points, not to mention the fact that he was still relied upon to anchor the defense for his LA Team.

Lets quickly examine some numbers from the 2000-2002 season.

The point of this thread is not to discredit Bryant as a closer (because he was certainly a very good one in that period of time) but to Credit Oneal for his ability to close out games and score points in that Final period. I also feel that considering the amount of defensive pressure he faced during that (those) years adds a bit of specialness to anytime he closed out a game since he was almost always the focus of the opposing teams defense and would face constant double and triple teams.

Anyway.. on to the numbers.

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Who was the closer? Who was the man taking the big shots and closing out games for the Lakers in their early 00 3Peat?

The answer (my answer) : Shaq was the main "closer" for LA from 2000-2002.
He closed out far more games and series then Kobe did.

Secondary Answer : Since Kobe also closed out a series or two and a whole bunch of games in 01 and 02 its unfair to give all the credit to Shaq. Shaq and Kobe were both the main closers for the 01 and 02 LA teams while Shaq was the main closer for the 00 Squad.

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Shaq from 00-02 scored a total of 388 Points in the 4th Quarter (Playoffs)

Kobe from 00-02 scored a total of 351 Points in the 4th Quarter (Playoffs)

Not really a big difference, Shaq scored more points but Kobe wasn't far behind.
To truly see who was more valuable in tight games under pressure we have to further examine the numbers and the games.

First let me say that all statistics are based on the 00-02 Playoffs.

Lets go series by series and see who was the Closer in each one.

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00 First-Round VS SAC 4QScoring

Shaq
G1 : 12 ||| (6-8 | FT = 0/0)
G2 : 8 ||| 1AST (4-4 | FT = 0/0)
G3 : 2 ||| (1-4)
G4 : 5 ||| (1-2 | FT = 3/4)
G5 : 4 ||| 1AST (2-3 | FT = 0/1)
Combined : 31 / 6.2ppg

Kobe
G1 : 4 ||| ( 2-3 0-0 | FT = 0-0 )
G2 : 2 ||| ( 1-3 0-0 | FT = 0-0 )
G3 : 16 ||| (5-9 1-2 | FT = 5-6 )
G4 : 11 ||| (5-12 0-3 | FT = 1-3)
G5 : 0 |||
Combined : 33 / 6.6ppg

G1 : Score at start of 4th : 79 - 91 LA Leads 12 Point Lead (W)
G2 : Score at start of 4th : 64 - 83 LA Leads - 19 Point Lead (W)
G3 : Score at start of 4th : 71 - 66 LA Leads - 5 Point Lead (L)
G4 : Score at start of 4th : 66 - 73 SAC Leads - 7 Point Deficit (L)
G5 : Score at start of 4th : 62 - 89 LA Leads - 27 Point Lead (W)

Who was the Closer? : There was no "Closer" in this series.

They had large leads (10+) in all 3 of their wins.
If I had to name a closer for this series it would be Shaq since he contributed and scored far more points in the 3 Wins.

Shaq scored 24 Points on 12-15 shooting and had 2 Assists in the 3 Wins ||| Kobe had 6 Points on 3-6 shooting.

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00 Semi-Finalz VS PHO 4QScoring

Shaq
G1 : 7
G2 : 10 ||| 1AST (4-5 | FT = 2/4)
G3 : 11
G4 : No DATA Available
G5 : 0 |||
Combined : 21 / 7ppg

Kobe
G1 : No DATA Available
G2 : 3 ||| 3AST ( 1-3 0-1 | FT = 1-2 )
G3 : 10
G4 : No DATA Available
G5 : 0 ||| ( 0-1 0-0 | FT = 0-0 )
Combined : 13 / 4.33ppg

G1 : Score at start of 4th : 60 - 75 - LA Leads 15 Point Lead (W)
G2 : Score at start of 4th : 65 - 74 LA Leads - 9 Point Lead (W)
G3 : Score at start of 4th : 75 - 76 PHO Leads - 1 Point Deficit (W)
G4 : Score at start of 4th : 71 - 93 PHO Leads - 22 Point Deficit (L)
G5 : Score at start of 4th : 40 - 68 LA Leads - 28 Point Lead (W)

Who was the Closer? : Dont have the full Data for this series but I'd say its a tie for now.

They contributed about the same amount on offense in Games 2 and 3 which were still relatively close by the start of the 4th with Shaq contributing slightly more.

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00 CNFinalz VS Portland 4QScoring

Shaq
G1 : 16 ||| 2AST
G2 : 14 ||| --- (5-6)
G3 : 5 ||| --- FT = 1/1
G4 : 10 ||| 1AST --- (2-4 | FT = 6/6)
G5 : 6 ||| --- (2-2 | FT = 2/5)
G6 : 4 ||| 3AST --- FT = 1/1
G7 : 9 ||| 1AST --- (3-3 | FT = 3/4)
Combined : 64 / 9.14ppg

Kobe
G1 : 0
G2 : 0 ||| 1AST
G3 : 5 ||| 1AST
G4 : 2 ||| ( 0-2 0-1 | FT = 2-2 )
G5 : 4 ||| ( 1-2 0-1 | FT = 2-3)
G6 : 12 ||| 1AST (4-8 4-6 | FT = 0-2)
G7 : 9 ||| 1AST (3-6 0-1 | FT = 3-6)
Combined : 32 / 4.57 ppg

G1 : Score at start of 4th : 72 - 85 LA Leads - 13 Point Lead (W)
G2 : Score at start of 4th : 76 - 53 POR Leads - 23 Point Deficit (L)
G3 : Score at start of 4th : 72 - 71 LA Leads - 1 Point Lead (W)
G4 : Score at start of 4th : 76 - 66 LA Leads - 10 Point Lead (W)
G5 : Score at start of 4th : 80 - 67 POR Leads 13 Point Deficit (L)
G6 : Score at start of 4th : 63 - 71 POR Leads - 8 Point Deficit (L)
G7 : Score at start of 4th : 71 - 58 POR Leads - 13 Point Deficit (W)

Who was the Closer? : Shaq was the closer in this series.

He doubled Kobes production in the 4th Quarters over the series (64 - 32) and contributed more in key wins.

In Game 1 he carried the Lakers with an insane 41/11/7/5 performance and scored 16 in the 4th to keep Portland from making any sort of comeback.

In Game 3 both Shaq and Kobe contributed an equal amount on offense in the victory.

In Game 4 Portland was still within striking distance at the start of the 4th but was put away by Shaq who had 10 Points and an Assist and hit all 6 of his FT's in the final period. Kobe only had 2 points that game and was 0-2 from the field.

In Game 7 Kobe came up big "slightly" out producing Shaq statistically and contributing 9 Points in the Final Quarter.

Shaq however had to deal with constant double and triple teams and (team meetings) that Portland held around him throughout the entire game.
This obviously aided a young Kobe who thanks to Shaq had an excess of space on the floor in which to create and score and didn't have to worry much about double teams.

Shaq was just as big as Kobe in terms of being clutch in that Game 7 matching Kobe's 4th quarter production with 9 Points and doing so more efficiently.
He was practically flawless offensively going 3-3 from the field and 3-4 from the FT Line in the final quarter as opposed to Bryant who went 3-6 from the field and 3-6 from the line.
I find it odd how many people choose to forget Shaqs contribution in this game and only bring up Kobe saying how "Clutch" he was when in reality Shaq was by far the Clutchest player in this game and far more Clutch throughout the entire series.

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00 Finalz VS Indiana 4QScoring

Shaq
G1 : 12
G2 : 17 --- FT = 9/15
G3 : 7
G4 : 16 --- FT = 6/11
G5 : 6
G6 : 13
Combined : 71 / 11.83 ppg

Kobe
G1 : 2
G2 : 0
G3 : 0
G4 : 12
G5 : 0
G6 : 8
Combined : 22 / 3.67 ppg

G1 : Score at start of 4th : 71 - 77 LA Leads - 6 Point Lead (W)
G2 : Score at start of 4th : 69 - 73 LA Leads - 4 Point Lead (W)
G3 : Score at start of 4th : 66 - 79 IND Leads - 13 Point Deficit (L)
G4 : Score at start of 4th : 80 - 77 LA Leads - 3 Point Lead (W)
G5 : Score at start of 4th : 67 - 86 IND Leads - 19 Point Deficit (L)
G6 : Score at start of 4th : 84 - 79 IND Leads - 5 Point Deficit (W)

Who was the Closer? : Shaquille Oneal.

Shaq scored far more points in the 4th Quarters over the series (71-22) and contributed far more points in Clutch time situations.
Shaq scored 58 Points in the 4th over the 4 LA wins all which were still very close by the start of the 4th as opposed to Kobe who produced 22 Points in the same games.

Even in Game 4 where Kobe stepped up after Shaq fouled out and led the team to a win it was Shaq's utter dominance on the 0ffensive end that kept the Lakers in the game before he fouled out. Shaq scored an incredible 16 4th Quarter Points before he fouled out, 4 more then Kobe did in the same game.

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[32Dayz]

PART 2

01 First-Round VS POR 4QScoring

Shaq
G1: 7 --- FT = 5/7
G2: 5 --- FT = 1/1
G3: 6 --- FT = 0/0
Combined : 18 / 6ppg

Kobe
G1: 15
G2: 10
G3: 4
Combined : 29 / 9.67ppg

G1 : Score at start of 4th : 72 - 74 LA Leads - 2 Point Lead
G2 : Score at start of 4th : 65 - 80 LA Leads - 15 Point Lead
G3 : Score at start of 4th : 72 - 79 LA Leads - 7 Point Lead

Notes : Lakers steam rolled Portland, most games were already blowouts by the end of the 3rd quarter or middle of the 4th and LA tends to leave Kobe in late in blow out wins far more often then with Shaq who was older and who Phil preferred to rest more often.

Who was the Closer? : "No Closer"

Despite G1 being close by the start of the 4th it was quickly blown open in the starting minutes of the quarter thanks to both Shaq and Kobe.
Kobe did contribute more in the first game and slightly more over the last 2 games but that was more due to coaching strategy (Phil resting Shaq) then because Kobe was outproducing Shaq and Clutch play was not really needed in any of the games.

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01 Semi-Finalz VS SAC 4QScoring

Shaq
G1: 13
G2: 12
G3:
G4: 7 --- FT = 3/5
*** Combined : 32 / 10.67ppg

Kobe
G1: 4
G2: 4
G3:
G4: 15
***Combined : 23 / 7.67ppg

G1 : Score at start of 4th : 78 - 84 LA Leads - 6 Point Lead
G2 : Score at start of 4th : 56 - 74 LA Leads - 18 Point Lead
G3 : Score at start of 4th : 65 - 54 LA Leads - 11 Point Lead
G4 : Score at start of 4th : 80 - 84 LA Leads - 4 Point Lead

Who was the Closer? : "Tie"

Shaq was the Closer in G1, Kobe was the closer in G4 neither of the other two games were very close by the start of the 4th so even if Shaq contributed more I wouldnt automatically give this to him. Shaq did however contribute more in G4 then Kobe did in G1 which gives him a bit of an edge overall and he contributed far more in G2 despite it being a blowout. Perhaps if Shaq had an edge in G3 comparable to what he had in G2 or G1 i'd call him the closer for this series but without that info I think saying its a "Tie" would be more appropriate.

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01 CNFinalz VS Spurs 4QScoring

Shaq
G1: 4
G2: 5
G3: 6
G4: 2
Combined : 17 / 4.25ppg

Kobe
G1: 13
G2: 9 - last 3 came on wide open shot (assist Shaq)
G3: 11 - Blowout win no clutchness needed
G4: 6
Combined : 39 / 9.75ppg

G1 : Score at start of 4th : 80 - 66 LA Leads - 14 Point Lead
G2 : Score at start of 4th : 66 - 67 SAS Leads - 1 Point Deficit
G3 : Score at start of 4th : 64 - 86 LA Leads - 22 Point Lead
G4 : Score at start of 4th : 66 - 86 LA Leads - 20 Point Lead

Notes : Lakers steam rolled the Spurs, most games were already blowouts by the end of the 3rd quarter or middle of the 4th and LA tends to leave Kobe in late in blow out wins far more often then with Shaq who was older and who Phil preferred to rest more often.
LA sets record for largest margin of victory over an opponent in a CNFinals at 20+ PPG.

Consensus : "Tie" or "No Closer"

Both Kobe + Shaq contributed an equal amount in G2 which was the only game in the series that wasnt a blowout by the end of the 3rd Quarter.
Kobe scored 22 more points over the series in the 4th Quarters but did so mostly in games that were already far out of reach and Phil preferred to rest Shaq in games moreso then Kobe in blowout games.

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01 Finalz VS Sixers 4QScoring

Shaq
G1: 5
G2: 4
G3: 6
G4: 4
G5: 3
Combined : 22 / 4.4ppg

Kobe
G1: 6
G2: 5
G3: 4
G4: 4
G5: 5
Combined : 24 / 4.8ppg

Consensus : "Tie" or "No Closer"

Sixers never really had a chance, both Shaq and Kobe contributed an Equal amount over the 4th Quarters.

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02 First-Round VS POR 4QScoring

Shaq
G1: 6
G2: 8
G3: 8
Combined : 22 / 7.3ppg

Kobe
G1: 8
G2: 1
G3: 6
Combined : 15 / 5ppg

G1 : Score at start of 4th : 62 - 68 LA Leads - 6 Point Lead (W)
G2 : Score at start of 4th : 63 - 77 LA Leads - 14 Point Lead (W)
G3 : Score at start of 4th : 67 - 67 Game Tied (W)

Consensus : "Tie" or "No Closer"

Portland never had a chance, both Shaq/Kobe contributed an equal amount in over Games 1 and 3 Combined which were the only two games that were close. Shaq had an edge in overall points scored in the 4th over the series but mainly because he scored far more in G2 which was a straight blowout.

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02 Semi-Finalz VS SAS 4QScoring

Shaq
G1: 13
G2: 4
G3: 0
G4: 1
G5: 4
Combined : 22 / 4.4ppg

Kobe
G1: 5
G2: 0
G3: 11
G4: 12
G5: 10
Combined : 38 / 7.6ppg

G1 : Score at start of 4th : 61 - 57 SAS Leads - 4 Point Deficit (W)
G2 : Score at start of 4th : 73 - 65 SAS Leads - 8 Point Deficit (L)
G3 : Score at start of 4th : 74 - 71 LA Leads - 3 Point Lead (W)
G4 : Score at start of 4th : 67 - 75 SAS Leads - 8 Point Deficit (W)
G5 : Score at start of 4th : 61 - 62 LA Leads - 1 Point Lead (W)

Consensus : Kobe Bryant

While Shaq did close out Game 1 and chipped in a few points in the Final two games of the series Kobe was clearly the Closer going into double digits in the 4th Q of the last 3 games and playing at a very high level.

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02 CNFinalz VS SAC 4QScoring

Shaq
G1: 3
G2: 7
G3: 3
G4: 6
G5: 0
G6: 12
G7 + OT : 15
Combined : 46 / 6.6 ppg

Kobe
G1: 10
G2: 5
G3: 16
G4: 6
G5: 6
G6: 11
G7 + 0T : 6
Combined : 60 / 8.5 ppg

Consensus : Shaquille Oneal

While at first glance looking at the point totals you may think that Kobe was the closer for this series but he was not.
Both piled up plenty of Clutch buckets in this series and I was tempted to Label the Duo together as the closers for this series but I feel Shaq deserves the honor.

Shaq scored 33 Points in the 3 Close games they won while Kobe chipped in 23 Points.
G7 in particular where they went into 0T Shaq really came through scoring 15 points in the 4th Q + OT while Kobe only chipped in 6.

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02 Finalz VS NJN 4QScoring

Shaq
G1: 14
G2: 4
G3: 5
G4: 6
Combined : 29 / 7.25ppg

Kobe
G1: 2
G2: 8
G3: 12
G4: 11
Combined : 28 / 7ppg

Consensus : "No Closer"

Nets never really had a chance so its hard to Label anyone a "closer" for this series Shaq scored more points overall in the 4TH Q for the series but Kobe scored more in the Final two games, perhaps in a sweep the "last 2 games" don't hold as much importance as they would in a 5-7 game series so I'll say they were both the closer of this series with Kobe scoring 28 in the 4TH Quarters over the Sweep and Shaq chipping in 29.

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Final Tally's and Note's.

Points scored in the 4th Quarter from 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 388
Kobe - 351

Series in which a player was the "Main Closer" 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 3 Series (00 POR, 00 IND, 02 SAC)
Kobe - 1 Series (02 SAS)

Series in which a player has an argument as the "Main Closer" 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 1 Series (01 SAC)
Kobe - 1 Series (01 SAS)

[ClutchBucketz]

I think when people say he couldn't score in the 4th quarter they mean the last few minutes of the 4th..

[32Dayz]

I think when people say he couldn't score in the 4th quarter they mean the last few minutes of the 4th..

Yea but that isn't true.

LA usually ran their offense through Shaq in the final minutes and in the 01 and 02 playoffs (especially 02) he actually shot very well from the FT Line in the 4th Quarters.
(I have the stats)

So he was never really a liability in late game situations.
I can only remember maybe 2 or 3 games in that entire 3 year period where he shot poorly enough from the stripe that he was taken out for 2-3 minutes in the middle of the 4th, but he was always on the court in the final 2 minutes.

For the most part he stayed Clutch in 4th Quarters and was insanely efficient not only from the floor but also shot a higher % from the stripe (in most games).

[ClutchBucketz]

Then why'd you post the entire 4th quarters?

[32Dayz]

Then why'd you post the entire 4th quarters?

Because in close games every 4th quarter bucket can be considered "Clutch"

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe

[32Dayz]

Kobe

Any reasoning behind your opinion?

Shaq closed out more games from 00-02 scored more points in the 4th quarter (especially in close games) and closed out more series.

Shaq was clearly the main Closer for LA from 00-02. :rockon:

btw : Quick lol @ the two angry Kobe Homers (Joker32 and Loser3)

[Deuce Bigalow]

because Kobe was the closer

[32Dayz]

because Kobe was the closer
Great logic bub.
I asked you to explain your opinion not repeat it.

Shaq closed out more games and series so that makes him the closer.

:facepalm

Shaq was the one putting up points in the Final minutes of the 4th quarter in more important games and series so he is the Closer.

Its simply factual and not something you can disagree with.

[32Dayz]

yeah I know im an idiot

Yea.. I know too.
Shaq led LA in 4th Quarter scoring from 00-02.
Shaq was the one scoring for LA in the Final Minutes of more big games and far more series so he is the Closer. :applause:

If you care to offer reasoning why that doesn't make sense feel free to chime in.

Cant argue with Facts dum-dum.

[32Dayz]

I like picturesss derp

Points scored in the 4th Quarter from 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 388
Kobe - 351

Series in which a player was the "Main Closer" 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 3 Series (00 POR, 00 IND, 02 SAC)
Kobe - 1 Series (02 SAS)

^ - This must really make you mad. :applause:

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://i.imgur.com/58QyI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/45Yhn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OnoPC.jpg

I lol'd hard, especially the last one :oldlol:
:applause:

[32Dayz]

Points scored in the 4th Quarter from 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 388
Kobe - 351

Series in which a player was the "Main Closer" 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 3 Series (00 POR, 00 IND, 02 SAC)
Kobe - 1 Series (02 SAS)

^ - This must really make you homers mad. :oldlol:

[32Dayz]

Kobe homers getting sh** on. :oldlol:

Points scored in the 4th Quarter from 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 388
Kobe - 351

Series in which a player was the "Main Closer" 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 3 Series (00 POR, 00 IND, 02 SAC)
Kobe - 1 Series (02 SAS)

^ - This must really make you mad. :applause:

[32Dayz]

Im so mad that Shaq was the closer :rolleyes:

Yup.. Facts dont lie.

Points scored in the 4th Quarter from 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 388
Kobe - 351

Series in which a player was the "Main Closer" 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 3 Series (00 POR, 00 IND, 02 SAC)
Kobe - 1 Series (02 SAS)

:applause:

[BlackJoker23]

Points scored in the 4th Quarter from 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 388
Kobe - 351

Series in which a player was the "Main Closer" 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 3 Series (00 POR, 00 IND, 02 SAC)
Kobe - 1 Series (02 SAS)

^ - This must really make you mad. :applause:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILwyffzltQA

1 more than shaq.

really mad.

[32Dayz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILwyffzltQA

1 more than shaq.

really mad.

3FMVP (00,01,02) > 1FMVP (09)

http://images.dr3vil.com/files/7/Derp%20forum%20pics/Aint%20even%20mad.jpg

[MichaelCheazley]

I love how the counter arguments are childish pictures and dumb comments.If you disagree with the post at least say why and back it up guys.

[32Dayz]

:oldlol: @ stats

Yea... they really screw up your view on reality dont they? :oldlol:

[Deuce Bigalow]

I love how the counter arguments are childish pictures and dumb comments.If you disagree with the post at least say why and back it up guys.

If you saw the games or atleast saw highlights you didnt need to explain

[32Dayz]

If you saw the games or atleast saw highlights you didnt need to explain

So we should just take a homers word for it? (your word).

I watched all the games (when collecting these stats) and most of the time the ball was run through Shaq in the post even in the Final minutes.

You cant argue with any legitimate facts or stats because your view on reality isn't what actually happened.

Its funny.. and kind of sad.

[Deuce Bigalow]

2002 Finals 4th quarters
Shaq- 29 points, 6/14 FG, 17/29 FT
Kobe- 33 points, 12/19 FG, 6/9 FT

2002 1st round 4th quarters
Shaq- 22 points, 8/15 FG, 6/11 FT
Kobe- 15 points, 5/14 FG, 3/4 FT

2002 Spurs-Lakers series:

Kobe averaged 9.2 ppg on 64% shooting in fourth quarters. Shaq averaged 4.5 ppg on 29%.

2002 Spurs-Lakers series:

Kobe averaged 9.2 ppg on 64% shooting in fourth quarters. Shaq averaged 4.5 ppg on 29%.

2002 Kings-Lakers series:

Kobe averaged 8.6 ppg on 43%, 96% on FTs and had just 5 turnovers. Shaq averaged just 5.1 ppg on 31%, 68% FTs and had 8 turnovers.

[32Dayz]

Those stats (all of them) are completely incorrect
Dunno how you can expect anyone to take you seriously when you post made up bullshit.

Kobe was the Closer for one series in the 3peat (02 VS SAS)
No need to remention it.


Shaq was clearly the closer in 02 vs Sacramento. :facepalm


02 CNFinalz VS SAC 4QScoring

Shaq
G1: 3
G2: 7
G3: 3
G4: 6
G5: 0
G6: 12
G7 + OT : 15
Combined : 46 / 6.6 ppg

Kobe
G1: 10
G2: 5
G3: 16
G4: 6
G5: 6
G6: 11
G7 + 0T : 6
Combined : 60 / 8.5 ppg

Consensus : Shaquille Oneal

While at first glance looking at the point totals you may think that Kobe was the closer for this series but he was not.
Both piled up plenty of Clutch buckets in this series and I was tempted to Label the Duo together as the closers for this series but I feel Shaq deserves the honor.

Shaq scored 33 Points in the 3 Close games they won while Kobe chipped in 23 Points.
G7 in particular where they went into 0T Shaq really came through scoring 15 points in the 4th Q + OT while Kobe only chipped in 6.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Im :mad:
:oldlol:

[Thorn]

Interesting data. Some points:

1. You factored Kobe's Games 2 and 3 into the fourth quarter averages. They were both 0 even though Kobe hurt his ankle early in Game 2 and did not play Game 3. I agree with deeming Shaq the closer for the 2000 Finals but I feel like you're underselling Kobe's contributions, especially in Game 4. Yes, Shaq scored 16 while Kobe only scored 12. But Kobe stepped up when Shaq was on the bench and that Game 4 was needed given the Game 5 blowout and how close Game 6 was.

2. 2001 WCSF vs the Kings - I'd probably give that to Shaq. It's true that Kobe's Game 4 was pretty damn good. But the importance of the first two games and Shaq's performance in those first two tips the edge to him - the first two games were more important than a 3-0 on the verge of a sweep. However, it's also worth mentioning that Kobe had 36 in Game 3 as Divac played aggressive defense on Shaq, limiting him to 21. Doug Christie fouled out.

3. 2001 WCF vs Spurs - I would give to Kobe. Mostly because Shaq had to deal with the Twin Towers while Kobe ran all over whoever was defending him - Antonio Daniels couldn't do anything on him. Didn't help the Spurs that Derek Anderson was injured also. Kobe's performances in the first two games on the road were paramount to dismantling the Spurs to set the stage for the blowouts in LA.

It may also be worth noting that in Game 5 of the WCF, Shaq fouled out (I will say there were some dubious foul calls) in a game LA lost on a Mike Bibby game winner.

Overall, I'd say Shaq was the closer in 2000, then shared it with Kobe in 2001 and 2002.

[32Dayz]

:oldlol:

I'm not mad.. I just think its retarded to post false/made up stats.

But whatever gets you off man. :rockon:

[Deuce Bigalow]

I'm hella :mad: now
:oldlol:

[32Dayz]

Interesting data. Some points:

1. You factored Kobe's Games 2 and 3 into the fourth quarter averages. They were both 0 even though Kobe hurt his ankle early in Game 2 and did not play Game 3. I agree with deeming Shaq the closer for the 2000 Finals but I feel like you're underselling Kobe's contributions, especially in Game 4. Yes, Shaq scored 16 while Kobe only scored 12. But Kobe stepped up when Shaq was on the bench and that Game 4 was needed given the Game 5 blowout and how close Game 6 was.

2. 2001 WCSF vs the Kings - I'd probably give that to Shaq. It's true that Kobe's Game 4 was pretty damn good. But the importance of the first two games and Shaq's performance in those first two tips the edge to him - the first two games were more important than a 3-0 on the verge of a sweep. However, it's also worth mentioning that Kobe had 36 in Game 3 as Divac played aggressive defense on Shaq, limiting him to 21. Doug Christie fouled out.

3. 2001 WCF vs Spurs - I would give to Kobe. Mostly because Shaq had to deal with the Twin Towers while Kobe ran all over whoever was defending him - Antonio Daniels couldn't do anything on him. Didn't help the Spurs that Derek Anderson was injured also. Kobe's performances in the first two games on the road were paramount to dismantling the Spurs to set the stage for the blowouts in LA.

It may also be worth noting that in Game 5 of the WCF, Shaq fouled out (I will say there were some dubious foul calls) in a game LA lost on a Mike Bibby game winner.

Overall, I'd say Shaq was the closer in 2000, then shared it with Kobe in 2001 and 2002.

Thanks for the input.. the first non Troll Response in this thread.

I can definitely agree with your final summation that Shaq was the Closer in 00 and they both shared the duties in 01 and 02.

[MichaelCheazley]

If you saw the games or atleast saw highlights you didnt need to explain
Lazy excuse.

[24r2]

does anybody honestly believe shaqs the closer :oldlol: , i hope this f@g of an OP is just trollin :oldlol:

http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Kobe-Bryant.jpg

[32Dayz]

^^^

Yea.. it would appear the two non homer/trolls who have posted in this thread agree with my opinions on this matter and with the logic/statistics I have used to back up my arguments. :cheers:

Have fun with your stupid lol pics and your general statements backed up by nothing but your worthless reputations.

[Deuce Bigalow]

2002 Playoffs

Round 1 VS Portland
Lakers Sweep in 3 Games (3-0)
4TH Q Scoring
Shaq = 22 Points
Kobe = 15 Points
Shaq +7

Round 2 VS SAS
Lakers Win in 5 Games (4-1)
4TH Q Scoring
Shaq = 22 Points
Kobe = 38 Points
Kobe +16

Round 3 VS SAC
Lakers Win in 7 Games (4-3)
4TH Q Scoring
Shaq = 39 Points
Kobe = 59 Points
Kobe +20

Finals VS NJN
Lakers Sweep (4-0)
4TH Q Scoring
Shaq = 29 points
Kobe = 33 points
Kobe +4

2002 Playoffs Total 4th Q Scoring
Shaq = 112
Kobe = 145
Kobe +33

[32Dayz]

2002 Playoffs

Round 1 VS Portland
Lakers Sweep in 3 Games (3-0)
4TH Q Scoring
Shaq = 22 Points
Kobe = 15 Points
Shaq +7

Round 2 VS SAS
Lakers Win in 5 Games (4-1)
4TH Q Scoring
Shaq = 22 Points
Kobe = 38 Points
Kobe +16

Round 3 VS SAC
Lakers Win in 7 Games (4-3)
4TH Q Scoring
Shaq = 39 Points
Kobe = 59 Points
Kobe +20

Finals VS NJN
Lakers Sweep (4-0)
4TH Q Scoring
Shaq = 29 points
Kobe = 33 points
Kobe +4

2002 Playoffs Total 4th Q Scoring
Shaq = 112
Kobe = 145
Kobe +33

These statistics (outside of the 1st two rounds) aren't correct and looking at them without context is pointless. :facepalm

Guess when you have no way to back up your arguments the only way to go is just to plain make up shit.

Actual stats/summarys below.

02 First-Round VS POR 4QScoring

Shaq
G1: 6
G2: 8
G3: 8
Combined : 22 / 7.3ppg

Kobe
G1: 8
G2: 1
G3: 6
Combined : 15 / 5ppg

G1 : Score at start of 4th : 62 - 68 LA Leads - 6 Point Lead (W)
G2 : Score at start of 4th : 63 - 77 LA Leads - 14 Point Lead (W)
G3 : Score at start of 4th : 67 - 67 Game Tied (W)

Consensus : "Tie" or "No Closer"

Portland never had a chance, both Shaq/Kobe contributed an equal amount in over Games 1 and 3 Combined which were the only two games that were close. Shaq had an edge in overall points scored in the 4th over the series but mainly because he scored far more in G2 which was a straight blowout.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

02 Semi-Finalz VS SAS 4QScoring

Shaq
G1: 13
G2: 4
G3: 0
G4: 1
G5: 4
Combined : 22 / 4.4ppg

Kobe
G1: 5
G2: 0
G3: 11
G4: 12
G5: 10
Combined : 38 / 7.6ppg

G1 : Score at start of 4th : 61 - 57 SAS Leads - 4 Point Deficit (W)
G2 : Score at start of 4th : 73 - 65 SAS Leads - 8 Point Deficit (L)
G3 : Score at start of 4th : 74 - 71 LA Leads - 3 Point Lead (W)
G4 : Score at start of 4th : 67 - 75 SAS Leads - 8 Point Deficit (W)
G5 : Score at start of 4th : 61 - 62 LA Leads - 1 Point Lead (W)

Consensus : Kobe Bryant

While Shaq did close out Game 1 and chipped in a few points in the Final two games of the series Kobe was clearly the Closer going into double digits in the 4th Q of the last 3 games and playing at a very high level.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

02 CNFinalz VS SAC 4QScoring

Shaq
G1: 3
G2: 7
G3: 3
G4: 6
G5: 0
G6: 12
G7 + OT : 15
Combined : 46 / 6.6 ppg

Kobe
G1: 10
G2: 5
G3: 16
G4: 6
G5: 6
G6: 11
G7 + 0T : 6
Combined : 60 / 8.5 ppg

Consensus : Shaquille Oneal

While at first glance looking at the point totals you may think that Kobe was the closer for this series but he was not.
Both piled up plenty of Clutch buckets in this series and I was tempted to Label the Duo together as the closers for this series but I feel Shaq deserves the honor.

Shaq scored 33 Points in the 3 Close games they won while Kobe chipped in 23 Points.
G7 in particular where they went into 0T Shaq really came through scoring 15 points in the 4th Q + OT while Kobe only chipped in 6.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

02 Finalz VS NJN 4QScoring

Shaq
G1: 14
G2: 4
G3: 5
G4: 6
Combined : 29 / 7.25ppg

Kobe
G1: 2
G2: 8
G3: 12
G4: 11
Combined : 28 / 7ppg

Consensus : "No Closer"

Nets never really had a chance so its hard to Label anyone a "closer" for this series Shaq scored more points overall in the 4TH Q for the series but Kobe scored more in the Final two games, perhaps in a sweep the "last 2 games" don't hold as much importance as they would in a 5-7 game series so I'll say they were both the closer of this series with Kobe scoring 28 in the 4TH Quarters over the Sweep and Shaq chipping in 29.

[Deuce Bigalow]

These statistics aren't correct. :facepalm

Guess when you have no way to back up your arguments the only way to go is just to plain make up shit.

Actual stats/summarys below.

Here is the link, by guess who
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1129685#p28778775
:roll:

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J90qsQo5dg4&feature=player_detailpage#t=274s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bNeQkcjLJg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2tCu_mKUx8&feature=player_detailpage#t=25s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7mF5MT-__8&feature=player_detailpage#t=547s

Just some examples, show Shaq doing that

[Fatal9]

02 Semi-Finalz VS SAS 4QScoring

Kobe
G1: 5
G2: 0
G3: 11
G4: 12
G5: 10
Combined : 38 / 7.6ppg

Kobe had 8 pts in the fourth quarter of game 2, not 0 (had 20 pts on 9/17 shooting overall in the second half). Not surprising to see.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Hey Fetal, where did you get these stats from on your post http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178768

[Fatal9]

Hey Fetal, where did you get these stats from on your post http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178768
http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=220518023&period=4

just look at it for each game.

also...

http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=220602023&period=4 I see only 13 pts overall for Shaq in fourth quarter and OT of game 7 but OP has him listed at 15. And it is interesting he left out Shaq/Kobe's shooting numbers in both series. Also should be noted OT numbers weren't included in any of mine, probably should have been I guess.

[ZaaaaaH]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J90qsQo5dg4&feature=player_detailpage#t=274s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bNeQkcjLJg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2tCu_mKUx8&feature=player_detailpage#t=25s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7mF5MT-__8&feature=player_detailpage#t=547s

Just some examples, show Shaq doing that


Its gonna be hard to find that

Also Closer does not always = Points. Obviously you are a LeBron lover who love stats and never watch the games. For example the Famous Lob by Kobe to Shaq on the Blazers, That is Kobe making the Play and thats what Closers do Make PLAYS not just score. Kobe usually always had the ball when the game is close and down to 2min mark.

Bottom line Ur a retard who loves LeBrons coccck who is so insecure that you had to waste ur time just to dig up stupid stats that makes no sense at all and still didnt get ur point across and got Pwned on ur own tread.

You LeBron lovers just dont get it. Stats dont show the Whole Entire Game it just sums it up that is why most of the LeBron jockers have no knowledge of the game and bust out Pers and Stats because they dont watch the games just like you which is pretty dam obvious.

[32Dayz]

Kobe had 8 pts in the fourth quarter of game 2, not 0 (had 20 pts on 9/17 shooting overall in the second half). Not surprising to see.

Actually he had "Zero" points.
Go watch the game or read the play by play online if you feel differently. :oldlol:

All my Stats are 100% Correct.

Funny watching homers try to disagree since it ruins their agendas and view of their god Kube Bryant.

----------------------------------------

Points scored in the 4th Quarter from 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 388
Kobe - 351

Series in which a player was the "Main Closer" 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 3 Series (00 POR, 00 IND, 02 SAC)
Kobe - 1 Series (02 SAS)

^ - This must really make you mad. :applause:

[Deuce Bigalow]

2002 Playoffs

Round 1 VS Portland
Lakers Sweep in 3 Games (3-0)
4TH Q Scoring
Shaq = 22 Points
Kobe = 15 Points
Shaq +7

Round 2 VS SAS
Lakers Win in 5 Games (4-1)
4TH Q Scoring
Shaq = 22 Points
Kobe = 38 Points
Kobe +16

Round 3 VS SAC
Lakers Win in 7 Games (4-3)
4TH Q Scoring
Shaq = 39 Points
Kobe = 59 Points
Kobe +20

Finals VS NJN
Lakers Sweep (4-0)
4TH Q Scoring
Shaq = 29 points
Kobe = 33 points
Kobe +4

2002 Playoffs Total 4th Q Scoring
Shaq = 112
Kobe = 145
Kobe +33

http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Kobe-Bryant.jpg

[32Dayz]

Points scored in the 4th Quarter from 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 388
Kobe - 351

Series in which a player was the "Main Closer" 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 3 Series (00 POR, 00 IND, 02 SAC)
Kobe - 1 Series (02 SAS)

^ - This must really make you mad. :applause:

[amfirst]

U have to take into account the teams they play. If lakers played against a team with no size than they will feed Shaq in the post. For example, Indiana where no one can match up with him.

Teams like the Spurs where they can match up with Shaq. The Lakers have to defer to Kobe to close out the games.

It's hard to tell because Kobe could probably close out the Indiana series if he wanted to, but there was no need for him to try because Shaq was such a bigger missmatch.

Kobe to me is a better closer, it's just that Phil didn't need to utilize him in some of those series because it was a cakewalk. It was the coach called to feed Shaq the ball because of the mismatch. I remember the Lakers keep feeding Shaq the ball. And believe it or not Kobe hooked him up for a lot of those easy baskets, but when the going gets tuff Kobe will take over when needed.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Points scored in the 4th Quarter from 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 388
Kobe - 351

Series in which a player was the "Main Closer" 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 3 Series (00 POR, 00 IND, 02 SAC)
Kobe - 1 Series (02 SAS)

^ - This must really make you mad. :applause:

There is no play by play in 2000 and 2001
nice made up stats though

[32Dayz]

Its gonna be hard to find that

Also Closer does not always = Points. Obviously you are a LeBron lover who love stats and never watch the games. For example the Famous Lob by Kobe to Shaq on the Blazers, That is Kobe making the Play and thats what Closers do Make PLAYS not just score. Kobe usually always had the ball when the game is close and down to 2min mark.

Bottom line Ur a retard who loves LeBrons coccck who is so insecure that you had to waste ur time just to dig up stupid stats that makes no sense at all and still didnt get ur point across and got Pwned on ur own tread.

You LeBron lovers just dont get it. Stats dont show the Whole Entire Game it just sums it up that is why most of the LeBron jockers have no knowledge of the game and bust out Pers and Stats because they dont watch the games just like you which is pretty dam obvious.

Hard to read such gibberish but I'll play along for fun.

So your basis for saying Kobe was the closer was because he had an assist to Shaq in one game? A Game that Shaq was far more Clutch in, a Game he sealed with a dunk?

:roll:

Shaq had more Crunch time assists from 00-02 then Kobe did and like I said earlier (I just rewatched all the playoff games) The offense was usually run through Shaq in the post in the Final minutes of most games.

[Fatal9]

Actually he had "Zero" points.
Go watch the game or read the play by play online if you feel differently. :oldlol:

All my Stats are 100% Correct.

Funny watching homers try to disagree since it ruins their agendas and view of their god Kube Bryant.

----------------------------------------

Points scored in the 4th Quarter from 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 388
Kobe - 351

Series in which a player was the "Main Closer" 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 3 Series (00 POR, 00 IND, 02 SAC)
Kobe - 1 Series (02 SAS)

^ - This must really make you mad. :applause:

You're an idiot.

You used this play-by-play: http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=220507013&period=4

which is screwed up because it shows stats for half of the third quarter not the fourth quarter (there is a bug or something when you go to the fourth quarter). And I have seen the game, that's how I know Kobe didn't score 0 pts. You can work from behind and see from the totals that Kobe only had 6 pts in the first half, and 20 in the second. And there was a graphic in the playoffs that showed Kobe as averaging 9.3 ppg in the fourth quarters vs. Spurs.

I don't really care enough to discuss this...especially with you...but :roll: at you making up numbers out of thin air.

[32Dayz]

There is no play by play in 2000 and 2001
nice made up stats though

I rewatched the games myself to collect the stats. (They are all available on UTUBE)
Except for 2002 where I used PBP.
:violin:

U mad?

[32Dayz]

You're an idiot.

You used this play-by-play: http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=220507013&period=4

which is screwed up because it shows stats for half of the third quarter not the fourth quarter (there is a bug or something when you go to the fourth quarter). And I have seen the game, that's how I know Kobe didn't score 0 pts. You can work from behind and see from the totals that Kobe only had 6 pts in the first half, and 20 in the second. And there was a graphic in the playoffs that showed Kobe as averaging 9.3 ppg in the fourth quarters vs. Spurs.

I don't really care enough to discuss this...especially with you...but :roll: at you making up numbers out of thin air.

Fair enough, I only rewatched the games in 2000 and 2001, in 2002 I used the play by play function on ESPN's site.

Maybe your right about that game but it showed him scoring Zero points so that's what I put down.

Why do you say I "made them up" when you yourself admit the Play by Play says the exact same thing. Your an idiot..

Also I give Kobe Credit for closing out that series so why would it make a difference if he scored a handful of extra points that didnt show up correctly in the PBP?

[amfirst]

Its gonna be hard to find that

Also Closer does not always = Points. Obviously you are a LeBron lover who love stats and never watch the games. For example the Famous Lob by Kobe to Shaq on the Blazers, That is Kobe making the Play and thats what Closers do Make PLAYS not just score. Kobe usually always had the ball when the game is close and down to 2min mark.

Bottom line Ur a retard who loves LeBrons coccck who is so insecure that you had to waste ur time just to dig up stupid stats that makes no sense at all and still didnt get ur point across and got Pwned on ur own tread.

You LeBron lovers just dont get it. Stats dont show the Whole Entire Game it just sums it up that is why most of the LeBron jockers have no knowledge of the game and bust out Pers and Stats because they dont watch the games just like you which is pretty dam obvious.
:lol

[amfirst]

All i know is Kobe closed out the difficult teams Spurs, Kings, Portland.

Shaq closed out the easy teams because frankly Phil wanted Kobe to feed Shaq. And there was no need for Kobe show off on a team u know u can beat in your sleep, like Nets, Pacer, or whatever. Some of those teams were a joke.

P.S. Closing out is when the game is about tied and that's when the real clutch players step up. Not in a blow out game.

[32Dayz]

All i know is Kobe closed out the difficult teams Spurs, Kings, Portland.

Shaq closed out the easy teams because frankly Phil wanted Kobe to feed Shaq. And there was no need for Kobe show off on a team u know u can beat in your sleep, like Nets, Pacer, or whatever. Some of those teams were a joke.

Kobe didn't close out any series vs Portland or SAC >.<.

Shaq closed out the 02 Series against the Kings and the 00 Portland Series.

Kobe closed out the 02 Series against the Spurs.

How exactly were 00 Portland and 02 Sacramento "Easy Teams" :facepalm


00 CNFinalz VS Portland 4QScoring

Shaq
G1 : 16 ||| 2AST
G2 : 14 ||| --- (5-6)
G3 : 5 ||| --- FT = 1/1
G4 : 10 ||| 1AST --- (2-4 | FT = 6/6)
G5 : 6 ||| --- (2-2 | FT = 2/5)
G6 : 4 ||| 3AST --- FT = 1/1
G7 : 9 ||| 1AST --- (3-3 | FT = 3/4)
Combined : 64 / 9.14ppg

Kobe
G1 : 0
G2 : 0 ||| 1AST
G3 : 5 ||| 1AST
G4 : 2 ||| ( 0-2 0-1 | FT = 2-2 )
G5 : 4 ||| ( 1-2 0-1 | FT = 2-3)
G6 : 12 ||| 1AST (4-8 4-6 | FT = 0-2)
G7 : 9 ||| 1AST (3-6 0-1 | FT = 3-6)
Combined : 32 / 4.57 ppg

G1 : Score at start of 4th : 72 - 85 LA Leads - 13 Point Lead (W)
G2 : Score at start of 4th : 76 - 53 POR Leads - 23 Point Deficit (L)
G3 : Score at start of 4th : 72 - 71 LA Leads - 1 Point Lead (W)
G4 : Score at start of 4th : 76 - 66 LA Leads - 10 Point Lead (W)
G5 : Score at start of 4th : 80 - 67 POR Leads 13 Point Deficit (L)
G6 : Score at start of 4th : 63 - 71 POR Leads - 8 Point Deficit (L)
G7 : Score at start of 4th : 71 - 58 POR Leads - 13 Point Deficit (W)

Who was the Closer? : Shaq was the closer in this series.

He doubled Kobes production in the 4th Quarters over the series (64 - 32) and contributed more in key wins.

In Game 1 he carried the Lakers with an insane 41/11/7/5 performance and scored 16 in the 4th to keep Portland from making any sort of comeback.

In Game 3 both Shaq and Kobe contributed an equal amount on offense in the victory.

In Game 4 Portland was still within striking distance at the start of the 4th but was put away by Shaq who had 10 Points and an Assist and hit all 6 of his FT's in the final period. Kobe only had 2 points that game and was 0-2 from the field.

In Game 7 Kobe came up big "slightly" out producing Shaq statistically and contributing 9 Points in the Final Quarter.

Shaq however had to deal with constant double and triple teams and (team meetings) that Portland held around him throughout the entire game.
This obviously aided a young Kobe who thanks to Shaq had an excess of space on the floor in which to create and score and didn't have to worry much about double teams.

Shaq was just as big as Kobe in terms of being clutch in that Game 7 matching Kobe's 4th quarter production with 9 Points and doing so more efficiently.
He was practically flawless offensively going 3-3 from the field and 3-4 from the FT Line in the final quarter as opposed to Bryant who went 3-6 from the field and 3-6 from the line.
I find it odd how many people choose to forget Shaqs contribution in this game and only bring up Kobe saying how "Clutch" he was when in reality Shaq was by far the Clutchest player in this game and far more Clutch throughout the entire series.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


02 CNFinalz VS SAC 4QScoring

Shaq
G1: 3
G2: 7
G3: 3
G4: 6
G5: 0
G6: 12
G7 + OT : 15
Combined : 46 / 6.6 ppg

Kobe
G1: 10
G2: 5
G3: 16
G4: 6
G5: 6
G6: 11
G7 + 0T : 6
Combined : 60 / 8.5 ppg

Consensus : Shaquille Oneal

While at first glance looking at the point totals you may think that Kobe was the closer for this series but he was not.
Both piled up plenty of Clutch buckets in this series and I was tempted to Label the Duo together as the closers for this series but I feel Shaq deserves the honor.

Shaq scored 33 Points in the 3 Close games they won while Kobe chipped in 23 Points.
G7 in particular where they went into 0T Shaq really came through scoring 15 points in the 4th Q + OT while Kobe only chipped in 6.

[Deuce Bigalow]

'02 Playoffs shows that Kobe was the closer, in the WCF and WCSF the stats were not even close

'01 and '00 we dont have the stats, Im not going to watch every game and waste my time to find that out

[32Dayz]

Are you retarded?

I rewatched very LA Playoff game from the 00 and 01 seasons to compile the 4th Q Data.
(We do have the stats they are on the first page)

What it showed is below.

Points scored in the 4th Quarter from 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 388
Kobe - 351

Series in which a player was the "Main Closer" 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 3 Series (00 POR, 00 IND, 02 SAC)
Kobe - 1 Series (02 SAS)

^ - This must really make you mad. :applause:

The 02 playoffs show Kobe closed out the Semi Finals (VS SAS) and Shaq closed out the Kings in the CNFinals.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe didn't close out any series vs Portland or SAC >.<.

Shaq closed out the 02 Series against the Kings and the 00 Portland Series.

Kobe closed out the 02 Series against the Spurs.

How exactly were 00 Portland and 02 Sacramento "Easy Teams" :facepalm

2002 Kings-Lakers series:

Kobe averaged 8.6 ppg on 43%, 96% on FTs and had just 5 turnovers. Shaq averaged just 5.1 ppg on 31%, 68% FTs and had 8 turnovers.

[Deuce Bigalow]

2002 Playoffs

Round 1 VS Portland
Lakers Sweep in 3 Games (3-0)
4TH Q Scoring
Shaq = 22 Points
Kobe = 15 Points
Shaq +7

Round 2 VS SAS
Lakers Win in 5 Games (4-1)
4TH Q Scoring
Shaq = 22 Points
Kobe = 38 Points
Kobe +16

Round 3 VS SAC
Lakers Win in 7 Games (4-3)
4TH Q Scoring
Shaq = 39 Points
Kobe = 59 Points
Kobe +20

Finals VS NJN
Lakers Sweep (4-0)
4TH Q Scoring
Shaq = 29 points
Kobe = 33 points
Kobe +4

2002 Playoffs Total 4th Q Scoring
Shaq = 112
Kobe = 145
Kobe +33

Is that big enough for you
:facepalm

[HylianNightmare]

how the ****?
why did you write up all of that ?

[32Dayz]

#1. Those stats are incorrect.
#2. Without putting them in context they are completely irrelevant.


Points scored in the 4th Quarter from 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 388
Kobe - 351
Shaq +37

^ - That big enough for you? :applause:

Kobe was +24 in that "stat" in the 2002 season (not 33)

[Deuce Bigalow]

#1. Those stats are incorrect.
#2. Without putting them in context they are completely irrelevant.



^ - That big enough for you? :applause:

You have no proof

My stats are correct, you can check the ESPN Play-by-Play

[Deuce Bigalow]

lets see how accurate your "stats" are
How many points did Shaq and Kobe score in the 4th Qs of the '02 Playoffs?

[32Dayz]

You have no proof

My stats are correct, you can check the ESPN Play-by-Play

Actually I did use the ESPN PBP for the 02 season and the stats you posted for the CNFinals + Finals are incorrect.

I know my stats are correct and I am not a liar.

I posted them for people to appreciate and it took me alot of work and hard effort to collect all the Data from the 00 and 01 seasons.

Nice job being a dick though and showing no appreciation for my work. :applause:

02 Playoffs
Shaq : 112
Kobe : 136

[Deuce Bigalow]

Actually I did use the ESPN PBP for the 02 season and the stats you posted for the CNFinals + Finals are incorrect.

I know my stats are correct and I am not a liar.

I posted them for people to appreciate and it took me alot of work and hard effort to collect all the Data from the 00 and 01 seasons.

Nice job being a dick though and showing no appreciation for my work. :applause:

02 Playoffs
Shaq : 112
Kobe : 136

Shaq's numbers are right, Kobe's is 145

[32Dayz]

Shaq's numbers are right, Kobe's is 145

I'll recheck the CNFinals and Finals numbers later but I think you are incorrect.

I took my time doing it and I really dont think I made any mistakes collecting the Data.

Anyway can we stop arguing now.

You think Kobe was the closer, I think Shaq was the closer in 00 and the closer with Kobe in 01 and 02.

lets agree to disagree.

[Lebron23]

This newbie is mindraping the Kobetards.

[Legends66NBA7]

This newbie is mindraping the Kobetards.

Guess he's taking some pressure of the rest of us. Maybe there will be some order restored to the board.

[D-Wade316]

This newbie is mindraping the Kobetards.
Yep. I love it. :rockon: :banana:

[Rooster]

Shaq was dominant but Kobe thrived under pressure during those time.

2000

I remember when he willed Lakers from a 15 points deficit 4th quarter against Portland in game 7 and that vivid memories of alley oop to Shaq. Overall he had 25 points 11 boards and 7 dimes. Who can forget the Indiana game with his bad ankle and Shaq fouled out in overtime, Kobe scored 8 points to seal the deal and Lakers took a commanding series lead 3-1.

2001

In the West, Spurs was the slight favorite after the beating Spurs gave them in 1999 and Duncan was healthy. Shaq always have trouble with the Twin towers but Kobe pick up
the slack and averaged 33.3 points 7 boards and 7 dimes in
brooming the Spurs. Kobe also scored 31 points and 32 points
and game 2 and game 3 of 2001 Finals after they were down
1-0 to Philly.

2002

Lakers were in deep trouble against the Queens so Kobe took care of it by scoring 30 points 10 boards and 7 dimes.



My point was Kobe rises over the occasion and was equally important as Shaq when it comes to big games. Lakers were
built around Shaq during those days so a lot of offense run through him but when it comes to close games in closing
minutes, Kobe was the closer.

Looking at the 4th quarter stats to validate this claim is misleading. If you really watch the games, teams were doing most of Hack-a-Shaq during 4th quarters. NBA has to change
the rule to avoid that bygiving a technical free throws to
whoever opposing teams doing the intentional foul without the
ball in the last 2 minutes.

[bstickq1]

Considering that game 1 of the 02 Kings series ended in a 7 point game, that should count as a close win, so add 10 for Bryant and 3 for Shaq there, for a total of 33 for Bryant and 36 for Shaq in close wins that series, and no definitive closer.

This coincides with the 10 point game you factored in for Shaq closing the 00 conference finals against Portland.

Using the "close win" metric you've set (inconsistently), and adding my own rules to it (8 or more points scored in the 4th quarter, beginning at or ending with single digit team point differential), the totals are

16 closed games for Bryant
14 closed games for Shaq

Considering there may have been a 4th quarter Bryant didn't play in (too lazy to check) where Shaq got one of his closes, and the fact that Bryant hadn't come into his own yet in the 99-00 season, Bryant wins by this metric for 00-02 overall.

Shaq was the closer in the 00 playoffs (8 to 5 closes in his favor), while Bryant was the closer of the 01 and 02 playoffs (11 to 6 closes in his favor).

[clipps]

Kobe would score in the 4th quarter, but he was not a big shot threat at the time. Back in 00-02, you can live with Kobe shooting the last shot if you were the other team. The Lakers back then didn't really have closer per se. They just had 2 scoring threats surrounded by players who didn't break under pressure. The Defense would always focus on Shaq and Kobe and inadvertantly leave Fish or Horry wide open, thus Horry picks up a loose ball behind the 3 point line and nails the wide open shot at the buzzer. People try to say that Shaq wouldn't score in the 4th quarter. That's an incorrect claim and also remember, despite him being a poor freethrow shooter, he would some how make them when they counted.

[ShaqAttack3234]

It's really not complicated, but the OP is angling to give Shaq any possible advantage. But in reality, Shaq has the clear advantage in 2000 4th quarters and Kobe has the clear advantage in 2002 4th quarters while there were a lot of blowouts in the 2001 run and neither player had a clear advantage with a couple of big 4th quarters each that year, nor was it as much of a factor.

Lets avoid revisionist history(on both sides).

Kobe was the preferred option in the last few minutes of close games and particularly on gamewinners, but Shaq wasn't sitting on the bench most of the time either except for when he has 5 fouls, the other team was behind and fouling out of desperation with no other options or the Lakers were only guarding against a 3. In terms of hack-a-Shaq, it wasn't used on a game to game basis and Phil would usually handle it by giving Shaq a few chances to see how he was shooting, or take him out for a few minutes if he was REALLY struggling and put him back in at the 2 minute mark when you couldn't intentionally foul off the ball.

[Jacks3]

1a/1b in 01,02,03,04. Shaq stans mad.

[Nevaeh]

1a/1b in 01,02,03,04. Shaq stans mad.

3 straight Finals MVPs for Shaq says that you're mad, actually. :lol

[barnett114]

1a/1b in 01,02,03,04. Shaq stans mad.

31 accounts on RealGM, U Mad.

[barnett114]

Actually I did use the ESPN PBP for the 02 season and the stats you posted for the CNFinals + Finals are incorrect.

I know my stats are correct and I am not a liar.

I posted them for people to appreciate and it took me alot of work and hard effort to collect all the Data from the 00 and 01 seasons.

Nice job being a dick though and showing no appreciation for my work. :applause:

02 Playoffs
Shaq : 112
Kobe : 136

Your Kobe hate is too strong.

[D-Wade316]

31 accounts on RealGM, U Mad.
Is the actual count 31? The guy has no life at all.

[pegasus]

This newbie is mindraping the Kobetards.

The newbie is Heat007, the most mind****ed poster off all time.

It's quite funny that after how Wade and Lebron choked in the finals, he can't just start his new personality's threads with praising Wade, so he's trying to bash the 5-time champion.:lol

Once the season starts, and Wade gets a couple of whistles, he will feel a lot more comfortable with sucking Wade's dick in public again.

[D-Wade316]

The newbie is Heat007, the most mind****ed poster off all time.

It's quite funny that after how Wade and Lebron choked in the finals, he can't just start his new personality's threads with praising Wade, so he's trying to bash the 5-time champion.:lol

Once the season starts, and Wade gets a couple of whistles, he will feel a lot more comfortable with sucking Wade's dick in public again.
Different posting style.

[pegasus]

Different posting style.

And who are you Mr. Join Date June 2011? Heat007 was nowhere to be found when you created your account, so how could you know his posting style?

All these post-shipwreck trolls.:facepalm

[D-Wade316]

And who are you Mr. Join Date June 2011? Heat007 was nowhere to be found when you created your account, so how could you know his posting style?

All these post-shipwreck trolls.:facepalm
I've been following ISH for 5 months before my account was verified by Jeff. I made my account 3 months after I first followed ISH.

[pegasus]

I've been following ISH for 5 months before my account was verified by Jeff. I made my account 3 months after I first followed ISH.

One day you will make a great bedtime storytelling dad to your kids.:applause:

[talamo]

One day you will make a great bedtime storytelling dad to your kids.:applause:

:lol

[barnett114]

Is the actual count 31? The guy has no life at all.

Yes, Jacks3 keeps getting banned but he keeps coming back, 3 accounts at a time. He tries to spread his Kobe love over there but he gets flagged.

D-Wade316, if you don't mind, why were you banned on RealGM?

[D-Wade316]

Yes, Jacks3 keeps getting banned but he keeps coming back, 3 accounts at a time. He tries to spread his Kobe love over there but he gets flagged.

D-Wade316, if you don't mind, why were you banned on RealGM?
I trolled, using my first account, in there. :lol I now made another one. I'm wary of being banned there, so I try to be unbiased as possible.

[D-Wade316]

One day you will make a great bedtime storytelling dad to your kids.:applause:
Believe it or not.