Horace Grant: "Kobe Top 5, Right There with Jordan"

[eliteballer]

http://www.mvp247.com/2010/11/horace-grant-talks/

[brisbaneman]

What about those two seasons when he was irrelevant without a top 3 big man?

[32Dayz]

This is stupid.. he is at 9-15 on the GOAT list and will never go higher.

Players who will always be ranked higher then Kobe.

#1.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Jordan_Lipofsky.jpg/200px-Jordan_Lipofsky.jpg

#2.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ekWGPAwpAXI/TeeGdvo7DsI/AAAAAAAAAII/yoi8pVvW3HI/s1600/shaq_300_080206.jpg

#3.
http://img.wikinut.com/img/b_n1ph.kccq3o5pp/jpeg/0/Kareem-Abdul-Jabbar.jpeg

#4. Wilt

#5. Duncan

#6. Magic

#7. Bird

#8. Hakeem

#9. Bill Russell

Then you've got West, Oscar, KG, Malone, Barkley for Kobe to fight with for the 10 Spot.

[Deuce Bigalow]

inb4 10 pages

[Deuce Bigalow]

I'm so :mad:
oh got to go, Shaq wants a BJ...
..

[andgar923]

Wasn't Horace talking smack about MJ when he left to the Magic?

I think he and Pip hated and resented MJ's guts, but Pip eventually came around.

[DaPerceive]

This is stupid.. he is at 9-15 on the GOAT list and will never go higher.

Players who will always be ranked higher then Kobe.

#1.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Jordan_Lipofsky.jpg/200px-Jordan_Lipofsky.jpg

#2.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ekWGPAwpAXI/TeeGdvo7DsI/AAAAAAAAAII/yoi8pVvW3HI/s1600/shaq_300_080206.jpg

#3.
http://img.wikinut.com/img/b_n1ph.kccq3o5pp/jpeg/0/Kareem-Abdul-Jabbar.jpeg

#4. Wilt

#5. Duncan

#6. Magic

#7. Bird

#8. Hakeem

#9. Bill Russell

Then you've got West, Oscar, KG, Malone, Barkley for Kobe to fight with for the 10 Spot.
Your list sucked after #1.

[32Dayz]

Your list sucked after #1.

Its my official list but the players arent in the order in which I rank them.

Although my top 3 are
1.Jordan
2.Shaq
3.Kareem

so that part is correct.

[DaPerceive]

Its my official list but the players arent in the order in which I rank them.

Although my top 3 are
1.Jordan
2.Shaq
3.Kareem

so that part is correct.
:oldlol: sure.

[Smoke117]

Shaq over kareem, you ****ing crazy son.

[barnett114]

In before Jacks3

[G-train]

I'm unbiased either way, in fact as a Heat fan I would be expected to hate on Kobe somewhat...
But it seems there isn't much difference between MJ and Bryant according to dudes that played with/against both.

[ZaaaaaH]

I'm unbiased either way, in fact as a Heat fan I would be expected to hate on Kobe somewhat...
But it seems there isn't much difference between MJ and Bryant according to dudes that played with/against both.


Kobe haters know much much more about NBA players then anyone. :applause:

Who is this Day69 loser, you really got bad taste in picking pictures off google.

Shaq was one of the Most Dominant player EVER but his resume does not support him to be Number 2. Go do some hw before you start rambling shiiit and Please go wipe ur upper lips cuz I can smell LeBrons *** from here.

[32Dayz]

Shaq over kareem, you ****ing crazy son.

Shaq was a better scorer/rebounder and arguably an equal defender when looking at their first 5, 7, 10 and even 13 years.. thats why I think he is the better player.

#2.
Shaq : Post Season - PER
Peak : 31
Top 5 : 30
Top 7 : 29.56
Top 10 : 28.52
Top 13 : 26.55
14th to 16th Season (Final 3 Seasons) - 18.33

#5.
Kareem : Post Season - PER
Peak : 32.4
Top 5 : 27.4
Top 7 : 25.64
Top 10 : 25.42
Top 13 : 24.7
14th to 16th Season (3 Seasons) - 20.9
Last 2 Seasons : 12.85 (26.65 MPG)

[nnn123]

Horace: "Well, Kobe scored 81, and I

[32Dayz]

Kobe haters know much much more about NBA players then anyone. :applause:

Who is this Day69 loser, you really got bad taste in picking pictures off google.

Shaq was one of the Most Dominant player EVER but his resume does not support him to be Number 2. Go do some hw before you start rambling shiiit and Please go wipe ur upper lips cuz I can smell LeBrons *** from here.

Not everyone puts as much weight on "Resumes".

Things like Titles are so directly tied to Luck (Era/Supporting Casts) and MVP's are biased and voted in by the Media and cannot truly be taken seriously when doing player comparisons.

Going purely by Production and Impact over a career in the playoffs Shaq is firmly at #2 all time and Kareem nor Wilt or Duncan or anyone else is very close to him. Jordan is the only one better.

Its just general ignorance of the mass Media and Public to judge players now by team accolades and ignore the context in which they were achieved.

And when did I mention Lebron... are you retarded?

[eliteballer]

[QUOTE=nnn123]Horace: "Well, Kobe scored 81, and I

[MaxFly]

Back in the days when I played, it definitely was a lot more physical. Teams were scoring only 80 points a night. It was very brutal, but it was great.

This is an example of why I don't trust players' memories. Last season, the average NBA team gave up 99.6 points per game.

Horace played from 87-04. Here's a breakdown of the average number of points teams gave up per year.

87-88: 108.2ppg
88-89: 109.2ppg
89-90: 107.0ppg
90-91: 106.3ppg
91-92: 105.3ppg
92-93: 105.3ppg
93-94: 101.5ppg
94-95: 101.4ppg
95-96: 99.5ppg
96-97: 96.9ppg
97-98: 95.6ppg
98-99: 91.6ppg
99-00: 97.5ppg
00-01: 94.8ppg
01-02: 95.5ppg
02-03: 95.1ppg
03-04: 93.4ppg

[WillyJakk]

I can't front.

I'm not the biggest Kobe guy, he actually has never been a favorite player of mine to even watch and I'm one of the few who think T-Mac's early 2000's w/ the Magic, he was a better SG than Kobe but really, I'm starting to come around and maybe it's because dude's on the way out the League soon and is reppin the last part of my era but for real:

I think Kobe is the 2nd best SG behind MJ and honestly speaking, I think he is a Top 10 All Time Great.

He definitely has the body of work.

And YES I have him in front of Kareem AND Wilt.

Both those guys won w/ a GREAT cast, Kobe on the other hand, well it's just really been Shaq and him, then Kobe and Gasol.

That definitely counts for something in my book.

[amfirst]

Not everyone puts as much weight on "Resumes".

Things like Titles are so directly tied to Luck (Era/Supporting Casts) and MVP's are biased and voted in by the Media and cannot truly be taken seriously when doing player comparisons.

Going purely by Production and Impact over a career in the playoffs Shaq is firmly at #2 all time and Kareem nor Wilt or Duncan or anyone else is very close to him. Jordan is the only one better.

Its just general ignorance of the mass Media and Public to judge players now by team accolades and ignore the context in which they were achieved.

And when did I mention Lebron... are you retarded?

Shaq is not #2 :oldlol:

U can't be number 2 when u don't even close out games against the best teams. Sure he dominated smaller teams, but he can never dominate the Spurs because they had size. Kobe was the one that had to pick up the slack. Shaq is prob the strongest, but he had many weakness. Imagine if Kareem was on the Spurs playing against Shaq. Shaq would be really ineffective against players who can match up with him like Duncan and Kareem.

[32Dayz]

Shaq is not #2 :oldlol:

U can't be number 2 when u don't even close out games against the best teams. Sure he dominated smaller teams, but he can never dominate the Spurs because they had size. Kobe was the one that had to pick up the slack. Shaq is prob the strongest, but he had many weakness. Imagine if Kareem was on the Spurs playing against Shaq. Shaq would be really ineffective against players who can match up with him like Duncan and Kareem.

I dont know why you troll.

Shaq had to deal with Duncan and DRob and still put up insane numbers against them.

Shaq also had the best numbers and closed out series VS even tougher teams like 00 Portland and 02 Sacramento... so yea.. your a troll dude.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I dont know why you troll.

Shaq had to deal with Duncan and DRob and still put up insane numbers against them.

Shaq also had the best numbers and closed out series VS even tougher teams like 00 Portland and 02 Sacramento... so yea.. your a troll dude.

4th quarters of 2002 Kings-Lakers series:

Kobe averaged 8.6 ppg on 43%, 96% FTs and 5 turnovers.
Shaq averaged 5.1 ppg on 31%, 68% FTs and 8 turnovers.

[32Dayz]

4th quarters of 2002 Kings-Lakers series:

Kobe averaged 8.6 ppg on 43%, 96% FTs and 5 turnovers.
Shaq averaged 5.1 ppg on 31%, 68% FTs and 8 turnovers.

Those numbers aren't correct.

02 CNFinalz VS SAC 4QScoring

Shaq
G1: 3
G2: 7
G3: 3
G4: 6
G5: 0
G6: 12
G7 + OT : 15
Combined : 46 / 6.6 ppg

Kobe
G1: 10
G2: 5
G3: 16
G4: 6
G5: 6
G6: 11
G7 + 0T : 6
Combined : 60 / 8.5 ppg

Shaq scored more points in the close games (33 - 23) and in the biggest two games of the series (G6 + G7)

Its obvious he closed out that series.

[BEAST Griffin]

on a bum knee too....

Yeah, we all know. Kobe always has a boo boo that is used to make him seem greater.

If Kobe wasn't such a cripple I'm sure he'd score 45 ppg on 60%

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Yeah, we all know. Kobe always has a boo boo that is used to make him seem greater.

If Kobe wasn't such a cripple I'm sure he'd score 45 ppg on 60%

Seriously. :oldlol: According to some of his zealots, Kobe hasn't been healthy since his early 20's.

[eliteballer]

Yeah, we all know. Kobe always has a boo boo that is used to make him seem greater.

If Kobe wasn't such a cripple I'm sure he'd score 45 ppg on 60%

The dude's knee was so bad he had to get knee surgery:rolleyes:

[BEAST Griffin]

This is an example of why I don't trust players' memories. Last season, the average NBA team gave up 99.6 points per game.

Horace played from 87-04. Here's a breakdown of the average number of points teams gave up per year.

87-88: 108.2ppg
88-89: 109.2ppg
89-90: 107.0ppg
90-91: 106.3ppg
91-92: 105.3ppg
92-93: 105.3ppg
93-94: 101.5ppg
94-95: 101.4ppg
95-96: 99.5ppg
96-97: 96.9ppg
97-98: 95.6ppg
98-99: 91.6ppg
99-00: 97.5ppg
00-01: 94.8ppg
01-02: 95.5ppg
02-03: 95.1ppg
03-04: 93.4ppg

Instead of looking at the whole league look only at the Bulls. That's who he played for after all. Bulls games had a lower ppg than the average games.

[32Dayz]

The dude's knee was so bad he had to get knee surgery:rolleyes:

When did he get the sugery?

[Legends66NBA7]

Seriously. :oldlol: According to some of his zealots, Kobe hasn't been healthy since his early 20's.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Kobe-Bryant-has-the-index-finger-of-an-83-year-o?urn=nba-252528

Just saying..

[eliteballer]

THIS is how bad his knee was in 06, he could barely jump:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiKMgnkvcqc

[Smoke117]

So Horace Grant is now a leading authority of greatest players of all time? Every time a notable role player makes an opinion is someone going to make a thread. So when is Charles Oakley's thread going to happen? Toni Kukoc's? Sam Perkins? I'll be waiting eagerly.

[eliteballer]

When did he get the sugery?

summer between 06 and 07 seasons.

[G-train]

So Horace Grant is now a leading authority of greatest players of all time? Every time a notable role player makes an opinion is someone going to make a thread. So when is Charles Oakley's thread going to happen? Toni Kukoc's? Sam Perkins? I'll be waiting eagerly.

Why u mad?

It's interesting as he played with both players.

[Smoke117]

Why u mad?

It's interesting as he played with both players.

I'm not mad. I could really give a shit who anyone whether it's you, Jerry West, Phil Jackson, whoever thinks is the best. In the whole it's all subjective and the ONLY opinion that really matters to ME IS MY OWN and that's HOW IT SHOULD BE. There are no facts when it comes to discussing these things. Yes some people make better cases than others that may or may not affect your opinion but in the end it's all opinion and that is what everyone needs to realize. There is no right or wrong in this. Oh there are idiots (jacks3, gengiskhan) and non idiots, but there is no right or wrong.

[G-train]

I'm not mad. I could really give a shit who anyone whether it's you, Jerry West, Phil Jackson, whoever thinks is the best. In the whole it's all subjective and the ONLY opinion that really matters to ME IS MY OWN and that's HOW IT SHOULD BE. There are no facts when it comes to discussing these things. Yes some people make better cases than others that may or may not affect your opinion but in the end it's all opinion and that is what everyone needs to realize. There is no right or wrong in this. Oh there are idiots (jacks3, gengiskhan) and non idiots, but there is no right or wrong.

dang bro u sound mad
Horace played with both so his opinion is interesting, whether you take it or leave it.

[eliteballer]

I'm not mad. I could really give a shit who anyone whether it's you, Jerry West, Phil Jackson, whoever thinks is the best. In the whole it's all subjective and the ONLY opinion that really matters to ME IS MY OWN and that's HOW IT SHOULD BE. There are no facts when it comes to discussing these things. Yes some people make better cases than others that may or may not affect your opinion but in the end it's all opinion and that is what everyone needs to realize. There is no right or wrong in this. Oh there are idiots (jacks3, gengiskhan) and non idiots, but there is no right or wrong.

So you dont care what those guys think yet for some reason you felt the need to inform everyone what YOU THINK. Shut your pie hole:rolleyes:

[Smoke117]

I'm not mad I'm just not sober. There is a difference.

[ZaaaaaH]

I'm not mad I'm just not sober. There is a difference.


Nah you Mad ~

You must be one of those Kobe haters, just gets angry hearing his name

[G-train]

I'm not mad I'm just not sober. There is a difference. :cheers:

[ZaaaaaH]

Not everyone puts as much weight on "Resumes".

Things like Titles are so directly tied to Luck (Era/Supporting Casts) and MVP's are biased and voted in by the Media and cannot truly be taken seriously when doing player comparisons.

Going purely by Production and Impact over a career in the playoffs Shaq is firmly at #2 all time and Kareem nor Wilt or Duncan or anyone else is very close to him. Jordan is the only one better.

Its just general ignorance of the mass Media and Public to judge players now by team accolades and ignore the context in which they were achieved.

And when did I mention Lebron... are you retarded?


Resume >>> Production and Impact when it comes to ranking players All-Time. You must be 15 who only see highlight plays and stats.

Shaq resume is no near being Number 2 in a All - Time list.

No its just general ignorance of you not looking deep into these players and acting like ur ranking is right, especially when you never play with these players fucck that you never even watch them live in a consistent bases.

Its dam obvious you like LeBron.

[Kurosawa0]

I've got Kobe at #7 behind MJ, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Larry and Wilt.

[Smoke117]

Nah you Mad ~

You must be one of those Kobe haters, just gets angry hearing his name

lol, hating on kobe got old maybe about 5-6 years ago? I could really give a **** about kobe by now. If anything it's like someone brought up...what we hate IS KOBE FANS not actually KOBE. It's you if you are a kobe fan or idiots like jacks3 and is ilk. It's you ****ing nut huggers that made him into this god figure that can do no wrong that is this walking Jesus christ figure that ****ing pisses us off. We don't hate Kobe as much as we hate all of you. We can't stand kobe by extension of not standing you. If we hate Kobe it's because we hate you ****ing assholes. So stop sucking his dick and actually realize he's just like anyone else with faults and isn't perfect and maybe rational people won't hate on him. Nobody likes to be told how to feel and it's annoying when you fanboys tell us to worship your god.

[BEAST Griffin]

lol, hating on kobe got old maybe about 5-6 years ago? I could really give a **** about kobe by now. If anything it's like someone brought up...what we hate IS KOBE FANS not actually KOBE. It's you if you are a kobe fan or idiots like jacks3 and is ilk. It's you ****ing nut huggers that him into this god figure that can do no wrong that is this walking Jesus christ figure that ****ing pisses us off. We don't hate Kobe as much as we hate all of you. We can't stand kobe by extension of not standing you. If we hate Kobe it's because we hate you ****ing assholes. So stop sucking his dick and actually realize he's just like anyone else with faults and isn't perfect and maybe rational people won't hate on him. Nobody likes to be told how to feel and it's annoying when you fanboys tell us to worship your god.

Repped.

[ZaaaaaH]

lol, hating on kobe got old maybe about 5-6 years ago? I could really give a **** about kobe by now. If anything it's like someone brought up...what we hate IS KOBE FANS not actually KOBE. It's you if you are a kobe fan or idiots like jacks3 and is ilk. It's you ****ing nut huggers that made him into this god figure that can do no wrong that is this walking Jesus christ figure that ****ing pisses us off. We don't hate Kobe as much as we hate all of you. We can't stand kobe by extension of not standing you. If we hate Kobe it's because we hate you ****ing assholes. So stop sucking his dick and actually realize he's just like anyone else with faults and isn't perfect and maybe rational people won't hate on him. Nobody likes to be told how to feel and it's annoying when you fanboys tell us to worship your god.


:wtf:

You mad?

[D-Wade316]

lol, hating on kobe got old maybe about 5-6 years ago? I could really give a **** about kobe by now. If anything it's like someone brought up...what we hate IS KOBE FANS not actually KOBE. It's you if you are a kobe fan or idiots like jacks3 and is ilk. It's you ****ing nut huggers that made him into this god figure that can do no wrong that is this walking Jesus christ figure that ****ing pisses us off. We don't hate Kobe as much as we hate all of you. We can't stand kobe by extension of not standing you. If we hate Kobe it's because we hate you ****ing assholes. So stop sucking his dick and actually realize he's just like anyone else with faults and isn't perfect and maybe rational people won't hate on him. Nobody likes to be told how to feel and it's annoying when you fanboys tell us to worship your god.
:cheers:








repped

[Meticode]

This is stupid.. he is at 9-15 on the GOAT list and will never go higher.

Players who will always be ranked higher then Kobe.

#1.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Jordan_Lipofsky.jpg/200px-Jordan_Lipofsky.jpg

#2.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ekWGPAwpAXI/TeeGdvo7DsI/AAAAAAAAAII/yoi8pVvW3HI/s1600/shaq_300_080206.jpg

#3.
http://img.wikinut.com/img/b_n1ph.kccq3o5pp/jpeg/0/Kareem-Abdul-Jabbar.jpeg

#4. Wilt

#5. Duncan

#6. Magic

#7. Bird

#8. Hakeem

#9. Bill Russell

Then you've got West, Oscar, KG, Malone, Barkley for Kobe to fight with for the 10 Spot.
I totally disagree with you. Right now he's definitely top 10 to me. If he wins another ring he's going to be a border line top 5.

[OmniStrife]

Forgive Horace, he never heard of Wilt, MJ, Russell, Shaq, Duncan, Magic, KAJ, Bird.

Either that, or he's just not capable of counting up to 5.

[Rooster]

Forgive Horace, he never heard of Wilt, MJ, Russell, Shaq, Duncan, Magic, KAJ, Bird.

Either that, or he's just not capable of counting up to 5.


Kobe showed Horace his left hand, he counted 5 rings. He knows how to count.

[OmniStrife]

Kobe showed Horace his left hand, he counted 5 rings. He knows how to count.

I hope Horace showed him his 4, making him top 6 on the GOAT list right after Kobe, no?
:roll:

[Jacks3]

The players know what's up. :pimp:

[monkeypox]

Forgive Horace, he never heard of Wilt, MJ, Russell, Shaq, Duncan, Magic, KAJ, Bird.

Either that, or he's just not capable of counting up to 5.

Yup, instead of actually playing basketball with these guys, what he really should have done is sat on the internet and looked up cherry picked stats! That's where the real knowledge comes from.

[DJ Leon Smith]

THIS is how bad his knee was in 06, he could barely jump:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiKMgnkvcqc

You're 100% correct. Look at the improvement in 2008 on the NBA's biggest stage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylPC8ojduiA

[Jacks3]

True. He was amazing in 2008.

28/6/5/2/58% TS
NBA MVP
All-NBA 1st Team
All-Defense 1st Team
#1 seed in best conference ever

Playoffs: 30/6/6/2/58% TS (23 games)

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[RRR3]

I can't front.

I'm not the biggest Kobe guy, he actually has never been a favorite player of mine to even watch and I'm one of the few who think T-Mac's early 2000's w/ the Magic, he was a better SG than Kobe but really, I'm starting to come around and maybe it's because dude's on the way out the League soon and is reppin the last part of my era but for real:

I think Kobe is the 2nd best SG behind MJ and honestly speaking, I think he is a Top 10 All Time Great.

He definitely has the body of work.

And YES I have him in front of Kareem AND Wilt.

Both those guys won w/ a GREAT cast, Kobe on the other hand, well it's just really been Shaq and him, then Kobe and Gasol.

That definitely counts for something in my book.
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[RRR3]

lol, hating on kobe got old maybe about 5-6 years ago? I could really give a **** about kobe by now. If anything it's like someone brought up...what we hate IS KOBE FANS not actually KOBE. It's you if you are a kobe fan or idiots like jacks3 and is ilk. It's you ****ing nut huggers that made him into this god figure that can do no wrong that is this walking Jesus christ figure that ****ing pisses us off. We don't hate Kobe as much as we hate all of you. We can't stand kobe by extension of not standing you. If we hate Kobe it's because we hate you ****ing assholes. So stop sucking his dick and actually realize he's just like anyone else with faults and isn't perfect and maybe rational people won't hate on him. Nobody likes to be told how to feel and it's annoying when you fanboys tell us to worship your god.
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Asukal]

lol, hating on kobe got old maybe about 5-6 years ago? I could really give a **** about kobe by now. If anything it's like someone brought up...what we hate IS KOBE FANS not actually KOBE. It's you if you are a kobe fan or idiots like jacks3 and is ilk. It's you ****ing nut huggers that made him into this god figure that can do no wrong that is this walking Jesus christ figure that ****ing pisses us off. We don't hate Kobe as much as we hate all of you. We can't stand kobe by extension of not standing you. If we hate Kobe it's because we hate you ****ing assholes. So stop sucking his dick and actually realize he's just like anyone else with faults and isn't perfect and maybe rational people won't hate on him. Nobody likes to be told how to feel and it's annoying when you fanboys tell us to worship your god.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Bandito]

summer between 06 and 07 seasons.
He got another one last summer too BTW if you didn't know that lOL

[Jacks3]

I'm not mad. .
lol @ this clown. Calm down son.

[Jacks3]

and I'm one of the few who think T-Mac's early 2000's w/ the Magic, he was a better SG than Kobe but really.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

T-Wack was NEVER better than Kobe and most seasons it wasn't even close.

[RRR3]

:mad: :mad: :mad: :cry: :cry: :cry:
:roll:

[Toizumi]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

T-Wack was NEVER better than Kobe and most seasons it wasn't even close.

Agreed. However, T-Mac had a lot of injuries in his career.
If you take both players in their prime, it's very close in my opinion. You could make a case for both these guys to have the slight edge, depending on what you value in a player.

Here's an old, but decent thread on 02-03 T-Mac vs. 05-06 Kobe. One could argue that these were not the peak seasons for these players of course..

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=190354

[RRR3]

Agreed. However, T-Mac had a lot of injuries in his career.
Here's an old, but decent thread on peak T-Mac vs. peak Kobe. It all depends on what year you take as the peak for these two players though.
Um...T-Mac in Orlando was better than Kobe was at that time. True story.

[Dragonyeuw]

A bunch of players are 'right there' with Jordan. While he's generally considered the greatest, it's not indisputable and there's a few that have just about as good a case for GOAT.

[Toizumi]

Um...T-Mac in Orlando was better than Kobe was at that time. True story.

As you can see my post in that thread, I agree on this. When players are on the same level (or close) it is hard to rank them though. Player rankings are always subjective.

[Yung D-Will]

Um...T-Mac in Orlando was better than Kobe was at that time. True story.

No. He wasn't.


The only time I might pick mac over Kobe was 03 and at that time I still gave Kobe the edge cause I thought he was a better defender by a good margin

[OldSchoolBBall]

This clown eliteballer is OBSESSED. :oldlol: Kobe isn't as good as Jordan. Deal with it.

[pauk]

Horace Grant: "Kobe Top 5, Right There with Jordan" http://www.mvp247.com/2010/11/horace-grant-talks/

http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz133/BeeKee_2010/kobe.gif

[ThaRegul8r]

Forgive Horace, he never heard of Wilt, MJ, Russell, Shaq, Duncan, Magic, KAJ, Bird.

Either that, or he's just not capable of counting up to 5.

Why do people act like modern players know anything about the history of the game?

:facepalm

I remember when Shaq asked Lenny Wilkens if he ever played, apparently ignorant that Wilkens was named one of the Top 50 Players in NBA History, the same year he was (which was a joke in itself, as a player with only three seasons in the league is not a Top 50 player ever). You don't have to know anything about past players in order to play in the NBA (or write about the NBA from what I've seen). All the people on the playground aspiring to play in the NBA one day aren't basketball historians.

[Jacks3]

No. He wasn't.


The only time I might pick mac over Kobe was 03 and at that time I still gave Kobe the edge cause I thought he was a better defender by a good margin
This. Kobe was easily better in 01,02,03,04,05,06,07,08,09,2010,2011.

T-Wack isn't remotely close to Bryant. :pimp:

[Jacks3]

Agreed. However, T-Mac had a lot of injuries in his career.
If you take both players in their prime, it's very close in my opinion.
Not really. The only year T-Mac has a argument is 03 and that was a fluke season. Hell, Kobe was still better considering his superior defense and the fact that he played in 7 more games.

Kobe was better every other year of their primes and it wasn't even close.

01--Kobe by far
02--Kobe easily
04-Kobe easily
05-Kobe
06--Kobe BY FAR
07-Kobe BY FAR
08-Kobe BY FAR

T-Wack's prime isn't close to Kobe's.

[RRR3]

Not really. The only year T-Mac has a argument is 03 and that was a fluke season. Hell, Kobe was still better considering his superior defense and the fact that he played in 7 more games.

Kobe was better every other year of their primes and it wasn't even close.

01--Kobe by far
02--Kobe easily
04-Kobe easily
05-Kobe
06--Kobe BY FAR
07-Kobe BY FAR
08-Kobe BY FAR

T-Wack's prime isn't close to Kobe's.
Tmacs prime ended after 05 you clown. T-Mac was better from 2000 to 2005. Deal with it. Kobes d has always been overrated anyways.

[Jacks3]

Tmacs prime ended after 05 you clown. T-Mac was better from 2000 to 2005. Deal with it
00-Kobe is far better
01-Kobe is far better
02-Kobe is better
03-Kobe is better
04-Kobe
05-Kobe
06-Kobe is far better
07-Kobe is far better
08-Kobe is far better


Kobe has always been better and it's usually not even close, you moron.

T-Wack isn't even better than Pierce, much less Bryant.

Not even close. :oldlol:

Kobes d has always been overrated anyways.
Sorta like how T-Wack has always been overrated?

I bet you didn't think Kobe's D was overrated when he held T-Wack to 0 pts while dropping 24 on his ass in one quarter back in 04.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[ZaaaaaH]

Tmacs prime ended after 05 you clown. T-Mac was better from 2000 to 2005. Deal with it. Kobes d has always been overrated anyways.


LOL where do ya get ur balls from? HAHAHAHAHAHA is Kobe getting to you that much?

[ZaaaaaH]

lol, hating on kobe got old maybe about 5-6 years ago? I could really give a **** about kobe by now. If anything it's like someone brought up...what we hate IS KOBE FANS not actually KOBE. It's you if you are a kobe fan or idiots like jacks3 and is ilk. It's you ****ing nut huggers that made him into this god figure that can do no wrong that is this walking Jesus christ figure that ****ing pisses us off. We don't hate Kobe as much as we hate all of you. We can't stand kobe by extension of not standing you. If we hate Kobe it's because we hate you ****ing assholes. So stop sucking his dick and actually realize he's just like anyone else with faults and isn't perfect and maybe rational people won't hate on him. Nobody likes to be told how to feel and it's annoying when you fanboys tell us to worship your god.


So ~

Ur Mad?

[RRR3]

Jacks can't accept that Kobe has always been in someone's shadow....Shaq, T-Mac and now LeBron. Oh and he's always in Jordan's shadow:oldlol:

[Dave3]

Jacks can't accept that Kobe has always been in someone's shadow....Shaq, T-Mac and now LeBron. Oh and he's always in Jordan's shadow:oldlol:
Don't bother. You'll get the usual

"LOL at u thinking its close.:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

(pastes his usual wall of Kobe stats text)

u so stupid :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

(insert more smilies here)

:roll: :roll: :roll: "

You're not going to have a proper debate with a troll. Don't try.

[Legends66NBA7]

Seems like nothing much as changed.

RRR3 maintaining a good stance and Dave 3 relentless as always.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Jacks can't accept that Kobe has always been in someone's shadow....Shaq, T-Mac and now LeBron. Oh and he's always in Jordan's shadow:oldlol:

Yeah, that's the way I look at it too (not so much in T-mac, Shaq or Lebron's shadow when it pertains to career rankings, but yes, I do understand your underlying point). When those players were in their primes (throw Timmy in the group), Kobe never really separated himself from the pack, never mind being "indisputably better". Tmac and Kobe's 2002-03 season were practically equal, Kobe's 2005-06 season, while showing he could score, was rivaled by LeBron's production (as was his 2007 and 2008 seasons--only by Chris Paul that year).

[Dave3]

lol Dave3. Tries so desperately to come off as objective, but in the end is just another dumass T-Wack fan. :roll:
Add a few more laughing smilies, you'll come off as more convincing, trust me.

[Legends66NBA7]

Seems like Jacks is still mad about being banned 31 times at Real GM:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbcctWbC8Q0

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You could say that about every great player in history. That's like saying Magic wasn't all that great because there were guys just as good or better every year. Same thing with Duncan. Same thing with West. Same thing Oscar. Same thing with Wilt. Same thing with Wade. Same thing with KG. Same thing with Barkley, Malone. etc etc.

Absolutely. I don't think it's necessarily an asterisk on the player (or Kobe in this instance), just something to think about. The last 'undisputed best player' was Michael Jordan. Nothing to be ashamed about; he's a GOAT candidate. I do feel that Shaq during the 1997-98 was the better player though.

[MaxFly]

Instead of looking at the whole league look only at the Bulls. That's who he played for after all. Bulls games had a lower ppg than the average games.

This would make sense except for the fact that he was making a point about the league in general and how difficult offensive players had it back then. Now even if he were just talking about the Bulls (which is just one team), one could point to the Celts last year and note how difficult they made it for opposing teams to score.

[MaxFly]

Oh, and by the way, Horace is wrong... he's not top 5. Top 10 for sure, but not top 5.

[Dragonyeuw]

Tmac was as gifted as Kobe, even more so in some areas. Not a better all-around player, even at his best, simply because of defense and the intangibles Kobe brought. When looking at this two, I always get the impression Tmac just relied on god-given ability and didn't put in as much work. Kobe was/is very talented, but his level of sustained play is the product of work ethic. Infuse Tmac with Kobe's drive, and the results may be more comparable. Let me be clear, I love prime Tmac, but he was never better than Kobe was, and I was very much caught up in the whole 'who's better' argument 8 years ago.

[rodman91]

Jordan : " If you are talking about guards, I would say he has got to be in the top 10."

[D-Wade316]

Jordan : " If you are talking about guards, I would say he has got to be in the top 10."
Ouch. Harsh. :banana:

[rodman91]

Mark Jackson said Kobe is better than Jordan. Jerry West said Lebron is better than Kobe. Pippen said Lebron is better than Jordan.

Don't take players opinion too seriously. They can be biased,attention whores or fool.

[Elmer Fudd]

Kobe Bwyant is a gwate pwayuh, one of da gwatest of aww time. Howevewh, I don't think he is quite top five. I think Jowdan, Chambewhwen, Wussell, Wawwy Wegend, Magic are da top 5. Oopsies I fohgot Kaweem.

[D-Wade316]

Kobe Bwyant is a gwate pwayuh, one of da gwatest of aww time. Howevewh, I don't think he is quite top five. I think Jowdan, Chambewhwen, Wussell, Wawwy Wegend, Magic are da top 5. Oopsies I fohgot Kaweem.
:wtf:

[Legends66NBA7]

:wtf:

Never watched Elmer Fudd or the Looney Tunes, I presume :P..

[D-Wade316]

Never watched Elmer Fudd or the Looney Tunes, I presume :P..
I couldn't care less about those shows. :D This is a public forum, for god's sake.

[Toizumi]

Kobe Bwyant is a gwate pwayuh, one of da gwatest of aww time. Howevewh, I don't think he is quite top five. I think Jowdan, Chambewhwen, Wussell, Wawwy Wegend, Magic are da top 5. Oopsies I fohgot Kaweem.

:oldlol:

[Mr. Jabbar]

old news

[AlphaWolf24]

current Players , ex players and ex players who played with Kobe and Jordan , Coaches , Coaches who coached both Michael and Kobe , and the Majority of Fans all say Kobe is a top 5 player alltime and very comparible to Jordan....



but wait...hold up a minute.....elitst online fans say Kobe is barely top 10 :roll:


only on the interwebz do pasty scrubs think they know more about Basketball then Pro's who actually play ...and play against the people they are talking about...:roll:


next

[barnett114]

Jacks3 - You Stay failing.

AlphaWolf24 - You failed.

[AlphaWolf24]

Jacks3 - You Stay failing.

AlphaWolf24 - You failed.


OCT 11 8 posts:rolleyes:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Tmacs prime ended after 05 you clown. T-Mac was better from 2000 to 2005. Deal with it. Kobes d has always been overrated anyways.

:wtf: :facepalm
2003 is the only season where T-Mac was arguably better

[OldSchoolBBall]

:wtf: :facepalm
2003 is the only season where T-Mac was arguably better

Err, no. He had a better 2002 and was at least equal if not better in 2004 as well.

[eliteballer]

2002 Kobe deferred to Shaq because he got married and cut down on the feud, and 2004 he destroyed T-Mac in that game at Staples not to mention everything else that was going on.

[B]

This is stupid.. he is at 9-15 on the GOAT list and will never go higher.

Players who will always be ranked higher then Kobe.

#1.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Jordan_Lipofsky.jpg/200px-Jordan_Lipofsky.jpg

#2.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ekWGPAwpAXI/TeeGdvo7DsI/AAAAAAAAAII/yoi8pVvW3HI/s1600/shaq_300_080206.jpg

#3.
http://img.wikinut.com/img/b_n1ph.kccq3o5pp/jpeg/0/Kareem-Abdul-Jabbar.jpeg

#4. Wilt

#5. Duncan

#6. Magic

#7. Bird

#8. Hakeem

#9. Bill Russell

Then you've got West, Oscar, KG, Malone, Barkley for Kobe to fight with for the 10 Spot.You should just bow out of the conversation now before the damage is irreparable.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Err, no. He had a better 2002 and was at least equal if not better in 2004 as well.

I disagree

[Heavincent]

Jacks can't accept that Kobe has always been in someone's shadow....Shaq, T-Mac and now LeBron. Oh and he's always in Jordan's shadow:oldlol:

I guess that's why Kobe is top 10 all time and Lebron and T-mac are not and never will be.

[thejumpa]

That's funny.....Kobe won't even crack top 10 lol

Good one Horace

[Heavincent]

Tmacs prime ended after 05 you clown. T-Mac was better from 2000 to 2005. Deal with it. Kobes d has always been overrated anyways.

And you claim you aren't a Kobe hater :oldlol:

You're just salty because Kobe is a top 10 player all-time.

[Deuce Bigalow]

That's funny.....Kobe won't even crack top 10 lol

Good one Horace

lol good one jumpa

[Heavincent]

That's funny.....Kobe won't even crack top 10 lol

Good one Horace

Bad news for you: Kobe already is top 10.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I know it must hurt knowing the player you hate you much is top 10 all-time.

You can go spoon with RRR3 to ease the pain. I know he's hurting too.

[Legends66NBA7]

I didn

[thejumpa]

Bad news for you: Kobe already is top 10.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I know it must hurt knowing the player you hate you much is top 10 all-time.

You can go spoon with RRR3 to ease the pain. I know he's hurting too.

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z388/7figga/obamacheesin.gif

[thejumpa]

lol good one jumpa

:rockon:

[Dave3]

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]I didn

[Legends66NBA7]

That would be a terrible idea. It would start like

Jordan
Kobe
LeBron
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Shaq
Allen Iverson

You'd be lucky if people mention Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Hakeem, and probably even Duncan.

I know. It makes random ranking pretty much useless.

So if a player, coach, etc.. says something about so and so, I'll listen in, but it's not some grand changer of how I view players.

[Heavincent]

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z388/7figga/obamacheesin.gif

http://msfstat.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/shawn-marion.gif

[DetroitPistonFan]

Seems like half of the NBA players and coaches says Kobe is top 10 or top 5. Some ISH posters says Kobe is not. Which opinion matters most?

[Big#50]

Kobe is number 8 or 9the in my all time list. Nothing wrong with someone having him at 5. Opinions vary. I don't think he is top five and he will never be in my book. He has never been better than MJ, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan, Bird, KAJ, Magic. He will never surpass them. He never did anything to put him over these players.

[OldSchoolBBall]

2002 Kobe deferred to Shaq because he got married and cut down on the feud, and 2004 he destroyed T-Mac in that game at Staples not to mention everything else that was going on.

LMAO Always an excuse for Kobe... :oldlol:

[RRR3]

Bad news for you: Kobe already is top 10.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I know it must hurt knowing the player you hate you much is top 10 all-time.

You can go spoon with RRR3 to ease the pain. I know he's hurting too.
I'm hurting? :roll: Considering you just brought me up out of nowhere, I'd say you're still butthurt that I owned you yesterday. :lol

[thejumpa]

I'm hurting? :roll: Considering you just brought me up out of nowhere, I'd say you're still butthurt that I owned you yesterday. :lol

Dude is a mess. Anytime somebody brings up something about Kobe, he goes nuts and starts insulting people. lol it's not even that serious

[Heavincent]

I'm hurting? :roll: Considering you just brought me up out of nowhere, I'd say you're still butthurt that I owned you yesterday. :lol

Owned me? :roll: :roll: :roll:

Good one.

[RRR3]

Owned me? :roll: :roll: :roll:

Good one.
How many people have agreed with your claims that Kobe is a better finals performer than Wade yet? :lol

[Heavincent]

How many people have agreed with your claims that Kobe is a better finals performer than Wade yet? :lol

That thread you told me to make had 1 response and it was from you. So what the hell are you talking about?

[RRR3]

That thread you told me to make had 1 response and it was from you. So what the hell are you talking about?
People didn't answer because they probably thought it was another "KOBEEEEE!!! DA GOAT!" thread considering you started it. Why don't you ask people in this thread who aren't Kobe trolls? :lol

[Heavincent]

People didn't answer because they probably thought it was another "KOBEEEEE!!! DA GOAT!" thread considering you started it. Why don't you ask people in this thread who aren't Kobe trolls? :lol

Excuses, excuses. I made the thread just like you told me to. It's not my fault the thread didn't get the responses you wanted it too.

[knicksman]

How many people have agreed with your claims that Kobe is a better finals performer than Wade yet? :lol

kobe would be better too if he got gifted 30+ fts

[knicksman]

Um...T-Mac in Orlando was better than Kobe was at that time. True story.


stats stats stats empty stats. Even rookie melo has won more games than him at his peak:lol

[rodman91]

stats stats stats empty stats. Even rookie melo has won more games than him at his peak:lol

What about poor teammates?

[Jacks3]

Err, no. He had a better 2002 and was at least equal if not better in 2004 as well.
lol @ this moron. :oldlol:

[Jacks3]

That's funny.....Kobe won't even crack top 10 lol


****king idiot. :roll:

[Big#50]

Seems like half of the NBA players and coaches says Kobe is top 10 or top 5. Some ISH posters says Kobe is not. Which opinion matters most?
They both matter the same. Just because someone plays in the NBA doesnt mean his opinion is more valid. I have eyes myself.

[AlphaWolf24]

They both matter the same. Just because someone plays in the NBA doesnt mean his opinion is more valid. I have eyes myself.


niqqa you Helen Keller up in dis piece

[RRR3]

Why are Kobe fans so damn insecure? chill out dudes.

[KobeRules24]

True that

[G-train]

They both matter the same. Just because someone plays in the NBA doesnt mean his opinion is more valid. I have eyes myself.

Please. It's mostly case by case.
Some retarded 13 year old posting BS does not have the same weight of opinion as an experienced NBA player. GTFO.

The average ISH poster knows jackshit about basketball compared to the average NBA player.

Most posters here are teenagers watching 20 nba games a year. These dudes have spent a lifetime in the game at the highest level.
GTFO.

[Dave3]

Please. It's mostly case by case.
Some retarded 13 year old posting BS does not have the same weight of opinion as an experienced NBA player. GTFO.

The average ISH poster knows jackshit about basketball compared to the average NBA player.

Most posters here are teenagers watching 20 nba games a year. These dudes have spent a lifetime in the game at the highest level.
GTFO.
The average NBA player is just as retarded though.

Monta Ellis called himself the second best player after Kobe in 2010. Shaq called Iverson a top 5 player of all time in 2002. Pippen called LeBron the GOAT. Grant says Kobe is top 5 all time while Jordan says top 10 guard.

[MiseryCityTexas]

horace's opinion don't count. he just saying kobe's up there with jordan for the numerous verbal sonnings from jordan in practice.

[RRR3]

The average NBA player is just as retarded though.

Monta Ellis called himself the second best player after Kobe in 2010. Shaq called Iverson a top 5 player of all time in 2002. Pippen called LeBron the GOAT. Grant says Kobe is top 5 all time while Jordan says top 10 guard.
Haha I love Monta though. He's got all kinds of swag. :pimp:

[G-train]

The average NBA player is just as retarded though.

Monta Ellis called himself the second best player after Kobe in 2010. Shaq called Iverson a top 5 player of all time in 2002. Pippen called LeBron the GOAT. Grant says Kobe is top 5 all time while Jordan says top 10 guard.

The average NBA player is just as retarded as the average poster on ISH? In term of knowledge of NBA basketball? :wtf:

Terrible quotes too. Monta is just being confident. Pierce used to say he was the best, newsflash - all the great players think they are the best.
Shaq is a clown. Pippen didn't say that.

[Jacks3]

It's just awesome how respected and revered Kobe is among all the past legends. They've all shown such profound appreciation for his game. When Walton/Russ/West/Bird/Magic/Bird etc say that, yes, Kobe is truly magnificent, you can't disagree. You just can't.

deal with it haters. :pimp:

[bizil]

Well in GOAT terms, the Super Six is a tough nut to crack. U got:

MJ
Kareem
Wilt
Magic
Russell
Bird

These six are all mythic type figures who all are considered godlike. And all were transcendant figures in sports. As quiet and shy as Kareem was, he was known by virtually everybody even if they didn't watch bball. So Kobe has a tough go getting in that group. I would say the rest of the top ten would be:

Shaq
Kobe
Duncan
Big O


I think Kobe has a GREAT case to be as high as #6 on the GOAT list as it stands now. His resume speaks for itself and has gotten to a level that it has eclipsed even Duncan and Shaq at this point. And who knows, Kobe still might make it to 7 rings. If he gets seven while still being a superstar or all star caliber player, it's time for him to break the top 5-6 in my book.

In terms of peak value or flat out the best player terms, I feel the top four perimeter guys of all time are MJ, Kobe, Magic, and Bird. So the only perimeter guy EVER I would take over Kobe peak value wise is MJ. So peak value wise, I think MJ, Kobe, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, and Bird are the top six players of all time.

[Jacks3]

:applause:

[32Dayz]

Dirk : Post Season - PER
Peak : 28.4
Top 5 : 25.82
Top 7 : 25.47

Kobe : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.8
Top 5 : 24
Top 7 : 23

[jacobgoindum]

:mad:

:applause:

[OldSchoolBBall]

lol @ this moron. :oldlol:

Kobe 2002 - 25.2 pts/5.5 reb/5.5 ast/1.5 stl/.4 blk./46.9% FG/54.4% TS/23.2 PER

TMac 2002 - 25.6 pts/7.9 reb/5.3 ast/1.6 stl/1.0 blk/45.1% FG/53.2% TS/25.1 PER


Kobe 2004 - 24.0 pts/5.5 reb/5.1 ast/1.7 stl/.4 blk/43.8% FG/55.1% TS/23.7 PER

Tmac 2004 - 28.0 pts/6.0 reb/5.5. ast/1.4 stl/.6 blk/41.7% FG/52.6% TS/25.3 PER

[RRR3]

Kobe 2002 - 25.2 pts/5.5 reb/5.5 ast/1.5 stl/.4 blk./46.9% FG/54.4% TS/23.2 PER

TMac 2002 - 25.6 pts/7.9 reb/5.3 ast/1.6 stl/1.0 blk/45.1% FG/53.2% TS


Kobe 2004 - 24.0 pts/5.5 reb/5.1 ast/1.7 stl/.4 blk/43.8% FG/55.1% TS

Tmac 2004 - 28.0 pts/6.0 reb/5.5. ast/1.4 stl/.6 blk/41.7% FG/52.6% TS
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Jacks3]

I'm a biased dumass.
I know. :facepalm

One guy is a top 3 perimeter defender in the league. The other is decent.

One guy is the most clutch player in the league. The other? Not so much.

One guy is the undisputed #1 option on a shit team and the other has to share the ball with Shaq, and then later Payton/Malone.

One guy is winning Championships and making Finals. The other is losing in the first round or leading his team to 19 wins. :oldlol:

lol @ throwing out raw stats with no regard to context.

Kobe in 2002 and 2004 was easily a better player than T-Wack. The fact that he has better/similar numbers on contending teams while being forced to share the ball with another superstar is just more proof. Add to that his vastly superior intangibles, superior efficiency, much better defense, and greater clutch play? It's not even close. Kobe is better, as he always was.

Both are better than Jordan, though. That's for sure.

[DJ Leon Smith]

I know. :facepalm

One guy is a top 3 perimeter defender in the league. The other is decent.

Agreed. Look at Kobe's lock-down defense on the NBA's biggest stage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylPC8ojduiA

[Jacks3]

Yes, let's look at Kobe's lock-down defense on T-Wack himself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM8n1MPiISc

24 pts in one quarter while holding T-Wack to 0 pts. :oldlol:

Some more epic shutdowns by the GOAT on-ball defender.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyLg15UIRLY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHGleTaT2x4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlJRtal8kvc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYia5l3Oy9U&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ver7OaentQk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjcgfA36KGQ&feature=related

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[AlphaWolf24]

Kobe 2002 - 25.2 pts/5.5 reb/5.5 ast/1.5 stl/.4 blk./46.9% FG/54.4% TS/23.2 PER

TMac 2002 - 25.6 pts/7.9 reb/5.3 ast/1.6 stl/1.0 blk/45.1% FG/53.2% TS/25.1 PER


Kobe 2004 - 24.0 pts/5.5 reb/5.1 ast/1.7 stl/.4 blk/43.8% FG/55.1% TS/23.7 PER

Tmac 2004 - 28.0 pts/6.0 reb/5.5. ast/1.4 stl/.6 blk/41.7% FG/52.6% TS/25.3 PER


2002 capped of a 3 peat!!!

(meanwhile in Orlando)

http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv104/mariochalmers/tmac.jpg





(INB4 "Kobe had a better team"....because T2ndVirgin had great teams in Houston and still put up Epic Fails....and if Kobe didn't Shaq he would be droppin 40 PPG...)




next

[eliteballer]

:biggums:

[Calabis]

lol, hating on kobe got old maybe about 5-6 years ago? I could really give a **** about kobe by now. If anything it's like someone brought up...what we hate IS KOBE FANS not actually KOBE. It's you if you are a kobe fan or idiots like jacks3 and is ilk. It's you ****ing nut huggers that made him into this god figure that can do no wrong that is this walking Jesus christ figure that ****ing pisses us off. We don't hate Kobe as much as we hate all of you. We can't stand kobe by extension of not standing you. If we hate Kobe it's because we hate you ****ing assholes. So stop sucking his dick and actually realize he's just like anyone else with faults and isn't perfect and maybe rational people won't hate on him. Nobody likes to be told how to feel and it's annoying when you fanboys tell us to worship your god.

I found the book of Kobe, excerpts from some of his apostles:

He will come like a thief in the night taking blond white girls and his jism sippers.

Alphawolf 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Kobe, Kobe,' will enter the kingdom of Kobeville, but only those who do what I command, will be granted into my kingdom."

Eliteballer 25:31
"When Kobe comes in his glory, and all the blond angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne."

NE1 16:18
And I tell you that you are NE1, and with this rock I will build my legacy, and the talk of other legends will not overcome it.

Jacks3 Chapter 6

And Kobe said: Whoever licks my balls and drinks my jism has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my balls are true food, and my jism is true drink. Whoever licks my balls and drinks my jism remains in me and I in him. Just as the Game sent me and I have life because of the Game, so also the one who *********es to me will have life because of me

[RRR3]

I found the book of Kobe, excerpts from some of his apostles:

He will come like a thief in the night taking blond white girls and his jism sippers.

Alphawolf 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Kobe, Kobe,' will enter the kingdom of Kobeville, but only those who do what I command, will be granted into my kingdom."

Eliteballer 25:31
"When Kobe comes in his glory, and all the blond angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne."

NE1 16:18
And I tell you that you are NE1, and with this rock I will build my legacy, and the talk of other legends will not overcome it.

Jacks3 Chapter 6

And Kobe said: Whoever licks my balls and drinks my jism has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my balls are true food, and my jism is true drink. Whoever licks my balls and drinks my jism remains in me and I in him. Just as the Game sent me and I have life because of the Game, so also the one who *********es to me will have life because of me
:roll: :roll: :roll: :applause: :applause: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[pauk]

Well ofcourse if an all-time great with such amazing intelligence and knowledge of all players like Horace Grant says it then it must be so........

[AlphaWolf24]

I found the book of Kobe, excerpts from some of his apostles:

He will come like a thief in the night taking blond white girls and his jism sippers.

Alphawolf 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Kobe, Kobe,' will enter the kingdom of Kobeville, but only those who do what I command, will be granted into my kingdom."

Eliteballer 25:31
"When Kobe comes in his glory, and all the blond angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne."

NE1 16:18
And I tell you that you are NE1, and with this rock I will build my legacy, and the talk of other legends will not overcome it.

Jacks3 Chapter 6

And Kobe said: Whoever licks my balls and drinks my jism has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my balls are true food, and my jism is true drink. Whoever licks my balls and drinks my jism remains in me and I in him. Just as the Game sent me and I have life because of the Game, so also the one who *********es to me will have life because of me

(cue's music)....."Howww....Greaaaattttt....izzzzzz...our....Gaaaawww wddddd"""



























(repped)

[RRR3]

(cue's music)....."Howww....Greaaaattttt....izzzzzz...our....Gaaaawww wddddd"""



























(repped)
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Pup=GOAT Kobe stan







And it ain't even close

[AlphaWolf24]

Well ofcourse if an all-time great with such amazing intelligence and knowledge of all players like Horace Grant says it then it must be so........


Not only Ho Grant ..

Antwan carr

Pat Riley

Barkley

Steve Kerr

John Salley

Magic Johnson

Shaq

and Phil Jackson

http://i.imgur.com/NSafS.gif

[Deuce Bigalow]

inb4 10 pages
Was right :D

[Deuce Bigalow]

Well ofcourse if an all-time great with such amazing intelligence and knowledge of all players like Horace Grant says it then it must be so........
If some scrub named Bobby Jones said Lebron was top 5 all-time, you'll make a thread about it.

[Legends66NBA7]

If some scrub named Bobby Jones

Need to be specific on which Bobby Jones... One of them wasn't a scrub and much more well known, than the other. Just saying.

[7_cody]

Jacks can't accept that Kobe has always been in someone's shadow....Shaq, T-Mac and now LeBron. Oh and he's always in Jordan's shadow:oldlol:

You just complimented Kobe -- Kobe has left every competitor in the dust, all the great players that were just as good as him are either retired or accepting role player positions

Anyway, I'm a huge Kobe fan, but I also think that T-Mac was just as good as Kobe for a couple of years in the early 2000's -- I'd still take Kobe just because of his defense, which back then, wasn't overrated -- he used to play great defense, especially in the playoffs. Nowadays he hardly plays defense.

[DJ Leon Smith]

LOL


Antwan carr

[jlip]

I've said this before. When basketball personalities such as former players, coaches, etc. speak of the historic comparisons between players and consider their rankings, they don't do it like we as anonymous fans on some forum do. They don't go to BBR and look up TS%, how many all NBA 1st team selections, and rings "as the man" a player has. Yeah they do take some of the resume' into consideration, but ultimately they make assessments based simply upon how they feel these players performed on the court...their abilities. The fact that player X has 2 more rings or 1 more FMVP, or shot 3% better from the field for his career than player Y means very little to them.

[crisoner]

http://i.imgur.com/NSafS.gif


Boats and hoes!!!

[LakersReign]

Well ofcourse if an all-time great with such amazing intelligence and knowledge of all players like Horace Grant says it then it must be so........

Child please:rolleyes:

Horace was winning titles with Jordan, while you were still watching Power Rangers and Blues Clues. So you sitting there trying to discredit his opinion on basketball is laughable. The sad part is, you're actually delusional enough to believe people are going to take you seriously. GTFOH:roll:

[crisoner]

Child please:rolleyes:

Horace was winning titles with Jordan, while you were still watching Power Rangers and Blues Clues. So you sitting there trying to discredit his opinion on basketball is laughable. The sad part is, you're actually delusional enough to believe people are going to take you seriously. GTFOH:roll:

THIS

[crisoner]

http://cdn.cosbysweaters.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/kobe.png

[crisoner]

http://www.hwdyk.com/q/quizimage/opj_061311.jpg