Has a star player ever been rendered as completely irrelevant as Lebron 10-11 Finals?

[brisbaneman]

I'm watching Game 3. he was basically nonexistent all series. Unbelievable.

[32Dayz]

Kobe - 2004

WOAT Finals Performance.

[icewill36]

Kobe - 2004

WOAT Finals Performance.

was just about to say...

[brisbaneman]

Kobe - 2004

WOAT Finals Performance.

Good call. He was laughably bad.

[D.J.]

Kobe in '04. He was doing everything he could think of. But Detroit in games 3-5 made them look like idiots.

MJ in '96. Karl put Payton on him starting in the second half of Game 3 and Jordan was absolutely terrible from that point on. He was still getting around 25 a game, but it was on such terrible percentages. In games 3-6, I think he shot 35-36% from the field. The Sonics were 2-2 in games 3-6.

[Heavincent]

Don't think so. Lebron was so non-existent that I didn't even notice him most of the time. When he finally took a shot I would be like "Oh, Lebron is on the court?"

[Kurosawa0]

Shaq was worse in the 06 Finals. Kobe's lows in the 04 Finals were just as bad as LeBron's.

[brisbaneman]

Don't think so. Lebron was so non-existent that I didn't even notice him most of the time. When he finally took a shot I would be like "Oh, Lebron is on the court?"

I was posting during the Finals about how Mario Chalmers needed lebron and the other role players to step up already.

[icewill36]

Kobe in '04. He was doing everything he could think of. But Detroit in games 3-5 made them look like idiots.

MJ in '96. Karl put Payton on him starting in the second half of Game 3 and Jordan was absolutely terrible from that point on. He was still getting around 25 a game, but it was on such terrible percentages. In games 3-6, I think he shot 35-36% from the field. The Sonics were 2-2 in games 3-6.

one of my fav teams of all thime (sonics)

too bad it took them 3 games to realize they were actually capable of beating the bulls.

[32Dayz]

Shaq was worse in the 06 Finals. Kobe's lows in the 04 Finals were just as bad as LeBron's.

Terrible comparison since 06 Shaq was Grandpa Shaq and it was the last year he was even semi useful/impactful.
(both Kobe and Lebron were in their Physical Prime's)
+ Shaqs team won the Title.

Shaq (had he shot his FT's better) was at 17/11/2 on 60% shooting in the 06 Finals.
He deferred to Wade and played a smaller role to let his team win.

Your trying to compare two players in their absolute primes to one who was way past his and that is retarded.

[Heavincent]

It was pretty funny how Heat fans kept expecting some monster 40+ point game from Lebron in the Finals. They were always talking so much shit in the game-day threads. That shit was hilarious :oldlol:

Then like 90% of the Heat fans on ISH just disappeared after the Finals and haven't come back yet. But I'm sure they'll be back in the 2012-2013 season when the Heat go on a winning streak.

[brisbaneman]

It was pretty funny how Heat fans kept expecting some monster 40+ point game from Lebron in the Finals. They were always talking so much shit in the game-day threads. That shit was hilarious :oldlol:

Then like 90% of the Heat fans on ISH just disappeared after the Finals and haven't come back yet. But I'm sure they'll be back in the 2012-2013 season when the Heat go on a winning streak.

The insane part was how ISH did a total 180 midway through the 4th of game 2...before Miami was the most stacked team ever and unbeatable--suddenly they were merely a team of 3 with no bench and no role players and Dallas was just TOO DEEP

[Doranku]

Yeah, LeBron in the '06-07 Finals. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Heavincent]

The insane part was how ISH did a total 180 midway through the 4th of game 2...before Miami was the most stacked team ever and unbeatable--suddenly they were merely a team of 3 with no bench and no role players and Dallas was just TOO DEEP

This is one of my favorite pictures that someone posted after game 2:

http://i51.tinypic.com/15s3612.jpg

:roll:

[D.J.]

In all honesty, both teams were sloppy in the Finals. Both teams held big leads at some point and blew them. Miami actually should have been up 3-0. No excuse to lose game 2. Miami in game 2 was the equivalent of Dallas in game 3 in '06.

[Lucifer]

Terrible comparison since 06 Shaq was Grandpa Shaq and it was the last year he was even semi useful/impactful.
(both Kobe and Lebron were in their Physical Prime's)
+ Shaqs team won the Title.

Shaq (had he shot his FT's better) was at 17/11/2 on 60% shooting in the 06 Finals.
He deferred to Wade and played a smaller role to let his team win.

Your trying to compare two players in their absolute primes to one who was way past his and that is retarded.

Kobe was not in his physical prime. He lost 20 pounds that off season and didn't even work out cuz of his rape case. He was battling shoulder problems all year as well.

Kobe made that 3 in game 2 that prevented the sweep. That in itself makes his series better then Lebron's you butt hurt kobe haters

[32Dayz]

Kobe was not in his physical prime. He lost 20 pounds that off season and didn't even work out cuz of his rape case. He was battling shoulder problems all year as well.

Kobe made that 3 in game 2 that prevented the sweep. That in itself makes his series better then Lebron's you butt hurt kobe haters

Disagree about the GWinner making it a better series.

I personally think its the WOAT Finalz series for a GOAT level player.

Fair enough about the Kobe conditioning stuff.
Still its not even remotely comparable to Shaq who had just suffered a Prime ending injury the year before Pre-Playoffs and was in his 15th season.

[DaPerceive]

Lebron's 2011 finals performance was worse than Kobe's 2004 Finals performance

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Kobe certainly wasn't good in the 04 finals but he sure as hell wasn't irrelevant. There is a difference.

[knightfall88]

People think I am exaggerating when I say this but if Lebron just stayed at home throughout the finals, the Miami Heat would have had a better chance. That's how bad he was.

[nayte]

Seriously, are we still going on about that??
Yeah, he played err..dissapointingly.It's done now, get over it.
Damn we need this lockout to finish....

[ukplayer4]

for me kobe(23/4/3 38% fg) was worse, lebron had his moments in the series and he still went 18/7/7 48% not lebron numbers and he didnt come through at the right times but i think he did less than kobe- less that is to loose his team the series.
kobe was determined he would be the one to take all the shots and forced through out, no matter how thet game went, he basically played keep away from shaq(27/11 63%fg).

he did have that one big shot which won them game 2 or 3, i dont recall. its a toss up really, a passive lebron. or the brick laying kobe who wanted to jack everything and not get the ball to the most dominant player.

[Nick Young]

Lebron in the 2007 Finals

[DaPerceive]

kobe was determined he would be the one to take all the shots and forced through out, no matter how thet game went, he basically played keep away from shaq(27/11 63%fg).
.
I think you just proved to everyone here that you didn't watch the 04 finals.

[millwad]

Ewing in '94 was garbage, he only made 36% of his FGA attempts in the series.. Horrible shooting through-out the finals..


http://img1.yardbarker.com/media/4/a/4a2321a62fd61b628fcf5e92a7b6f40ef10d1630/xl/evolution02ye4.jpg?stamp=1318073723

[joe]

It was truly amazing. Lebron was invisible out there.

I think people are wrong when they question his character, though. I wouldn't say he's unclutch, I think his game just has serious holes. When great teams are playing their absolute hardest, he has very little to fall back on. His jumper is weak, his handles are so-so, and his post game is non-existent.

If Lebron developed a sweet midrange jumper, I'd bet he'd suddenly become a very "clutch, gritty player." But sadly.. he hasn't shown that desire, IMO

[Dragonyeuw]

Kobe had a bad 2004 finals, horrible by his standards. BUT, it certainly wasn't because of lack of effort. When I saw Lebron in the 2011 finals, it was like the guy wasn't even aware of the magnitude of the situation. You're in the finals, even if you play like crap at least put it all on the line! It doesn't even seem like Lebron was trying half the time, he was totally disengaged from the moment.

[Dragonyeuw]

for me kobe(23/4/3 38% fg) was worse, lebron had his moments in the series and he still went 18/7/7 48%

This is where stats don't tell the whole story. Lebron, in one of those games, had just about the most irrelevant, non-impactful triple double I've ever seen. The guy just wasn't into it, say what you will about Kobe's 2004 performance, but at the least he acted like he KNEW he was in the finals. Lebron's demeanor in the 2011 finals was like he was playing a pre-season game. And this is a guy who KILLED in the Bulls series, against greater defense than what he saw against Dallas. So what happened, exactly?

[Nick Young]

This is where stats don't tell the whole story. Lebron, in one of those games, had just about the most irrelevant, non-impactful triple double I've ever seen. The guy just wasn't into it, say what you will about Kobe's 2004 performance, but at the least he acted like he KNEW he was in the finals. Lebron's demeanor in the 2011 finals was like he was playing a pre-season game. And this is a guy who KILLED in the Bulls series, against greater defense than what he saw against Dallas. So what happened, exactly?
Jason Kidd happened

[madmax]

the turning point of the series was that embarrassing Heat loss in Game 2...had Miami played the game till the end and subsequently won, there was no coming back from dead for Dallas. Too bad it was not meant to be I guess

[Odinn]

Kobe's 2004 Finals performance was worse than LeBron's 2011 Finals performance. But not more irrelevant.

[Streetballer]

I want to know if the Season is Saved and The Heats Don't Win the Chip!!!
What will the Lebron Die hard Supporters say
By the Way I'm a Die Hard Knicks Fan Since 88!!!
But when Bron Bron was on the Cavs I use to Root For him!!!
I also went to a Few of his High school Games!!(wen I use to Mess with a Girl out there)
Kobe&MJ-> will always be better than Bron....
I can't Image Kobe being in a Team with a Prime Wade,and Bosh, and not winning the Chip!!!(u can say the 04 Lakers were Stacked) But Malone and Payton were way pass their Prime!!!

"Don't Be Mad Just My Opinion"
http://cdn.smosh.com/sites/default/files/bloguploads/haters-kid-cudi.gif

[rodman91]

Kobe

[DMAVS41]

kobe or lebron

who knows which pile of shit is bigger. i personally think Lebron was worse, but they were about on the same level crap.

both historically bad because they had a teammate playing great.

[Phong]

Surprised no one has said "LOL! LeBron always trying to copy off Kobe!" yet. :lolDid LeBron copied how to win titles? :confusedshrug:

[rodman91]

Did LeBron copied how to win titles? :confusedshrug:

No but lost 2 times in finals like Kobe.:lol

[pegasus]

No but lost 2 times in finals like Kobe.:lol

Call me back when Lebron can punch someone in the face and leave five marks.

[AlphaWolf24]

No but lost 2 times in finals like Kobe.:lol


7 NBA Finals in 10 years, won 5 Championships , lost twice

2 NBA Finals in 8 years , Won 0 , put up the most epic choke jop in NBA superstar History:lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe - 2004

WOAT Finals Performance.

Lebron in 2007 and 2011 has been worse

2007
22 ppg on 35.6 FG%, 5.8 Turnovers per game

2011
17.8 ppg
outscored by bench player
5th leading scorer
0 points on 0-7 FG in the clutch (within 5 points, under 5 minutes)

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yes Kobe was bad in the '04 Finals, but he atleast had one great game

Game 2
33 points
4 rebounds
7 assists
2 steals
14-27 FG

Hit the game-tying 3 to send the game into overtime with 2 seconds left, then had 4 extra points in OT to seal it

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200406080LAL.html

[9erEmpire]

Probably Kobe's because he was playing.

I forgot that Lebron was even playing in the 2010 Finals.

[KingLeBronJames]

No but lost 2 times in finals like Kobe.:lol
Kobe will lose more NBA Finals games like that loser, Magic Johnson.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe will lose more NBA Finals games like that loser, Magic Johnson.

arn't they both 5 time Champions, while your boy is ringless?

[DaPerceive]

Pretty sure LeBron would beat the crap out of Kobe.
And what is this based on? His killer instinct? Oh wait.

[pegasus]

Pretty sure LeBron would beat the crap out of Kobe.

Your post, just like yourself, is irrelevant.

[AlphaWolf24]

Pretty sure LeBron would beat the crap out of Kobe.


http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2964000/AlphaWolf-2964455_1077_690.jpg



just knock off the headband...and Kobe would R@pe him via Ground and Pound...

[DaPerceive]

Based on kobe getting hit by Chris child's and then swinging like a little girl at him.
Cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGBWzSsKGRw


Leaving marks on Reggie's face. What has Lebron done again?

[Phong]

And what is this based on? His killer instinct? Oh wait.Based on LeBron crying to the refs that the Wizards were playing too rough with him.

[Big#50]

Kobe 04 finals was the worst ever. Shot like shit and decided not to pass.

[The Iron Fist]

Kobe 04 finals was the worst ever. Shot like shit and decided not to pass.
Decided not to pass, but had 4.5 apg?
Interesting.

Meanwhile,

lebronz averaged 17.8 ppg, 10 below his regular season average.

[NBAller]

link to 10-11 finals plz

[Heavincent]

Pretty sure LeBron would beat the crap out of Kobe.

Yeah...no.

[SpecialQue]

People are ignoring the title of this thread and are just posting dogshit. A lot of stars have played like crap in the finals, but very few seem to be so insignificant that they might as well not even have shown up.

As it's been stated here, Lebron killed the Bulls. Why couldn't he bring any of that fire to the finals? It was odd...you could barely tell when he was on the court.

[nathanjizzle]

wait, lebron played in the 2011 finals? i didnt notice.

[D-Wade316]

wait, lebron played in the 2011 finals? i didnt notice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyllINeA46U

:violin: :violin: :violin:

[SpecialQue]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyllINeA46U

:violin: :violin: :violin:

Pwned.

[WillyJakk]

Personally I think Kobe had a vendetta in the '04 Finals.

He seemed to try to "show" Shaq that he'd willingly pass the ball to Malone but would not willingly pass it to Shaq and truthfully it looked like Kobe and Malone had better chemistry that season.

Gary Payton was really the only guy getting Shaq the rock VS the Pistons and he seemed uncomfortable being caught in the middle of that Shaq/ Kobe bullsh*t and I'd think he and Malone regretted signing w/ the Lakers that season.

[LBJFTW]

It was pretty funny how Heat fans kept expecting some monster 40+ point game from Lebron in the Finals. They were always talking so much shit in the game-day threads. That shit was hilarious :oldlol:

Then like 90% of the Heat fans on ISH just disappeared after the Finals and haven't come back yet. But I'm sure they'll be back in the 2012-2013 season when the Heat go on a winning streak.

Like dogs running away with their tails between their legs after watching Dirk smash all their hopes and dreams.

[Inception28]

Lebron fans don't like to talk about finals in the same sense Kobe fans don't like to talk about FG%.

[Derka]

The insane part was how ISH did a total 180 midway through the 4th of game 2...before Miami was the most stacked team ever and unbeatable--suddenly they were merely a team of 3 with no bench and no role players and Dallas was just TOO DEEP

It was hilarious to see people throwing Mike Miller and Udonis Haslem completely under the bus after an entire season of "Once Miller/Haslem is back, we'll be complete!"

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I still think Kobe had the worst Finals performance of all-time by a superstar. Watching him completely sabotage the games for personal glory was extremely distasteful...and embarrassing.

[eliteballer]

LOL.........Kobe was coming off knee and shoulder surgeries, dealing with the trial. He wasn't near game shape, he was taking IV's during the playoffs if you recall. Guys act like he was chucking but he only took 22 shots a game.

[DaPerceive]

It was hilarious to see people throwing Mike Miller and Udonis Haslem completely under the bus after an entire season of "Once Miller/Haslem is back, we'll be complete!"
Miller does suck, but Haslem does not. Without Haslem they don't even get past the Bulls in the ECF. Heat beat the Bulls in the ECF because they matched the Bulls on the boards and Haslem was a large part of that. Mike Miller was pretty much irrelevant all season so you can't blame Heat fans for saying that.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Game 4: 25 shots on .320% shooting :facepalm

I'll never understand why someone would take that many FGA if they're 'injured' :oldlol:

[eliteballer]

Game 4: 25 shots on .320% shooting :facepalm

I'll never understand why someone would take that many FGA if they're 'injured' :oldlol:

Its either that or George and Medvedenko throwing up shots with the way Shaq was gassing.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Its either that or George and Medvedenko throwing up shots with the way Shaq was gassing.

Yeah, Shaq's 36 points on 16/21 shooting (with Jackson later saying he needed more touches) obviously showed signs of fatigue. You Kobe fans are hilarious; we all saw the series, no need for the revisionist history.

[Legends66NBA7]

Yeah, Shaq's 36 points on 16/21 shooting (with Jackson later saying he needed more touches) obviously showed signs of fatigue. You Kobe fans are hilarious; we all saw the series, no need for the revisionist history.

But Kobe has the "killer instinct" !

[eliteballer]

Yeah, why dont you actually go watch the series. He was gassed in the 2nd half every game. He was getting outrebounded and averaging less than a block a game, and averaging over 4 fouls a game.

[Bandito]

It is true that Kobe sucked in that 04 finals but at least I remember him being there chucking his a$$ off. Lebron in the 11 finals well I don't even remember him to be honest. For a while I thought they bench his a$$ because he was stinking on the court until I was his jersey when they put Chalmers back. Heck I notice Chalmers on the court and not Lebron, now there is something to say about that.

[Legends66NBA7]

LOL.........Kobe was coming off knee and shoulder surgeries, dealing with the trial. He wasn't near game shape, he was taking IV's during the playoffs if you recall. Guys act like he was chucking but he only took 22 shots a game.

Wow... Unreal.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He was hardly gassed in that 4th game. You are exposing yourself. I remember Phil stressing that the ball needed to move through the post/inside-out more. Wallace was getting absolutely murked that game.

One of the Lakers' road games that Finals that was close too.

[The Iron Fist]

Lebron fans don't like to talk about finals in the same sense Kobe fans don't like to talk about FG%.


Kobes fg% has gotten him 5 rings.

lebrons finals disappearances have netted him

http://theosophical.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/zero2.jpg

[Deuce Bigalow]

I still think Kobe had the worst Finals performance of all-time by a superstar. Watching him completely sabotage the games for personal glory was extremely distasteful...and embarrassing.

How was it worse than Lebron in '07 and '11?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

How was it worse than Lebron in '07 and '11?

How was it not?

[The Iron Fist]

It was hilarious to see people throwing Mike Miller and Udonis Haslem completely under the bus after an entire season of "Once Miller/Haslem is back, we'll be complete!"
http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv123/Gardnerius/Animated%20gifs%20for%20boards/mj-laughing.gif


That, was funny. They said it all season too.

[Deuce Bigalow]

How was it not?


Lebron in 2007 and 2011 has been worse

2007
22 ppg on 35.6 FG%, 5.8 Turnovers per game

2011
17.8 ppg
outscored by bench player
5th leading scorer
0 points on 0-7 FG in the clutch (within 5 points, under 5 minutes)

Lebron was completely irrelevant, literally

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUNwbSgKZuE

Yeah man, Shaq was so exhausted :oldlol:

[Legends66NBA7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUNwbSgKZuE

Yeah man, Shaq was so exhausted :oldlol:

Shaq was fat.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Shaq was fat.

Fat, out of shape... and ripe for the taking! :oldlol:

Seriously though, you gotta be a complete douchebag to ignore a guy who's having a game like this. A guy who's been the most dominant big since entering the league.

[AlphaWolf24]

Kobes fg% has gotten him 5 rings.

lebrons finals disappearances have netted him

http://theosophical.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/zero2.jpg


ether

:applause:

[Legends66NBA7]

Fat, out of shape... and ripe for the taking! :oldlol:

Seriously though, you gotta be a complete douchebag to ignore a guy who's having a game like this. A guy who's been the most dominant big since entering the league.

I hear you man.

It's just ridiculous that the Lakers would lose like that when you got Shaq just feasting inside. No defense is going to stop him, even if he was banged up or out of shape. And Shaq getting "tired" is another fairy tale.

[AlphaWolf24]

Fat, out of shape... and ripe for the taking! :oldlol:

Seriously though, you gotta be a complete douchebag to ignore a guy who's having a game like this. A guy who's been the most dominant big since entering the league.


meh....Shaq without Kobe would have had playoff letdowns of Patrick Ewing Porportions...

Shaq is very Lucky to have had the greatest player of his generation and the 2nd greatest SG of alltime on his team...

Without Kobe I don't see Shaq winning any Titles beyond his Heat 37 FT 06 chip....the guy destroys team chemistery everywhere he went...

even with Stacked teams in Orlando and Cleveland he couldn't get it done...heck even in Miaimi he barely did anything.






seriously...for some cot forsaken reason.....Shaq and Barkley get madly overrated here.....

[pauk]

I'm watching Game 3. he was basically nonexistent all series. Unbelievable.

sure you were.... :rolleyes: or you just made that up just so you can post this same **** again so you can bash lebron again which will help you sleep at night... yes he didnt produce much PPG, but he was not literally nonexistent, especially not in Game 1 where he was the whole reason to winning that game...

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

meh....Shaq without Kobe would have had playoff letdowns of Patrick Ewing Porportions...

Shaq is very Lucky to have had the greatest player of his generation and the 2nd greatest SG of alltime on his team...

Without Kobe I don't see Shaq winning any Titles beyond his Heat 37 FT 06 chip....the guy destroys team chemistery everywhere he went...

even with Stacked teams in Orlando and Cleveland he couldn't get it done...heck even in Miaimi he barely did anything.

They don't win without one another. That's the way I look at it. Shaq needed a great playmaking wing to win his rings; Kobe needed/needs a good (or great)post presence and rebounder.

[Big#50]

meh....Shaq without Kobe would have had playoff letdowns of Patrick Ewing Porportions...

Shaq is very Lucky to have had the greatest player of his generation and the 2nd greatest SG of alltime on his team...

Without Kobe I don't see Shaq winning any Titles beyond his Heat 37 FT 06 chip....the guy destroys team chemistery everywhere he went...

even with Stacked teams in Orlando and Cleveland he couldn't get it done...heck even in Miaimi he barely did anything.






seriously...for some cot forsaken reason.....Shaq and Barkley get madly overrated here.....
LOL you must have started watching the game post 2006. What a ****ing joke. LoL nice trolling skills. 6/10

[AlphaWolf24]

They don't win without one another. That's the way I look at it. Shaq needed a great playmaking wing to win his rings; Kobe needed/needs a good (or great)post presence and rebounder.


well i think Kobe has proved that he didn't really need a player of Shaq's Talent to win at the nearly the same level.....

and While Shaq's size and physical presence helped Miami improve greatly....he has never looked as great in the postseason or had nearly the post season sucess without Kobe...

I mean he played on over 8 50+ win teams without Kobe and never sniffed another 3 peat...

[AlphaWolf24]

LOL you must have started watching the game post 2006. What a ****ing joke. LoL nice trolling skills. 6/10


I've been watching and following basketball since 1981'....i went to a Don Nelson Basketball camp in 1991 and 1992 as a instructor...I had the exact same conversation with Nellie as I said earlier...at the time I talked to Nellie in 92' he said the exact same thing....(talking about CB going to the suns)

Barkley can make teams great at first....but his mentality will eventually wear down his teammates and destroy team chemistry...Nellie said the Suns will be Great for a year then eventually fall apart...

he was 100% correct...(also proven in Philly)..and IMO Shaq does the same thing. :confusedshrug:

[Bandito]

And yet we are talking about the irrelevance of Lebron in last years finals and it turns into yet another lets bash Kobe fest. Good job Lebron's stans...

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

well i think Kobe has proved that he didn't really need a player of Shaq's Talent to win at the nearly the same level.....

and While Shaq's size and physical presence helped Miami improve greatly....he has never looked as great in the postseason or had nearly the post season sucess without Kobe...

I mean he played on over 8 50+ win teams without Kobe and never sniffed another 3 peat...

You're right, he needed another big man to win that 4th ring. I truly believe Shaq and the Heat would have made the Finals (in 2005) had Dwyane been healthy. Orlando with a healthy Grant would have made that '96 conference finals interesting too.

If we're going by team championships (assuming that's what you meant by success), then yes, I agree. Kobe has had more without Shaq than vice versa.

[AlphaWolf24]

You're right, he needed another big man to win that 4th ring. I truly believe Shaq and the Heat would have made the Finals (in 2005) had Dwyane been healthy. Orlando with a healthy Grant would have made that '96 conference finals interesting too.

If we're going by team championships (assuming that's what you meant by success), then yes, I agree. Kobe has had more without Shaq than vice versa.


umm...every team has a big man....not really seeing it...every team that has ever won a title had a Big man...

yes Kobe got a 19 year old big man with glass knees and the Lakers had the best record in the NBA before Gasol arrived...

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

umm...every team has a big man....not really seeing it...every team that has ever won a title had a Big man...

Not every team. Not an elite big man like Gasol, either.

I know your stance though. Keep doing your thing, Kobe fan :cheers:

[DaPerceive]

Yeah, Shaq's 36 points on 16/21 shooting (with Jackson later saying he needed more touches) obviously showed signs of fatigue. You Kobe fans are hilarious; we all saw the series, no need for the revisionist history.
You didn't watch the series did you? Either that or you are clearly trolling.

[swi7ch]

Nope.

He needs to see a hypnotist and get his 4th quarter phobia fixes ASAP!

[Indian guy]

'Rendered' is giving Dallas' D credit they simply do not deserve. LeBron's issues in the Finals were almost entirely self-inflicted.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You didn't watch the series did you? Either that or you are clearly trolling.

Is this your cry for attention? All the contradiction in your posts, all the profiles and all the talk. You're like the sports talk Bernie Madoff knockoff..never invest in his bullshit..or your ass goes broke fast. Ever hear the term "its a sure thing" Just add losing (as charlie sheen endorses winning) to that slogan in regards to Rockets greatness lose trail. Sure losing!!!

[eliteballer]

LOL, this clown talking like he hasn't been hating on Kobe since he signed up. Go watch your vince carter vids clown.

[donald_trump]

It is true that Kobe sucked in that 04 finals but at least I remember him being there chucking his a$$ off. Lebron in the 11 finals well I don't even remember him to be honest. For a while I thought they bench his a$$ because he was stinking on the court until I was his jersey when they put Chalmers back. Heck I notice Chalmers on the court and not Lebron, now there is something to say about that.


so the fact that you can remember kobe sucking harder somehow makes it less worse?

that doesnt make sense. :roll:

[DaPerceive]

Is this your cry for attention? All the contradiction in your posts, all the profiles and all the talk. You're like the sports talk Bernie Madoff knockoff..never invest in his bullshit..or your ass goes broke fast. Ever hear the term "its a sure thing" Just add losing (as charlie sheen endorses winning) to that slogan in regards to Rockets greatness lose trail. Sure losing!!!
Oh so you have nothing, I'll inform you since you are uninformed.


Posted this shit a few months ago



People who didn't watch the series and look at the 2004 Finals boxscores, stats, and nothing more say that Kobe shot them out of the series and that if he had passed the ball to Shaq they would have won. Well newsflash for those who think that, Shaq getting the ball was half the battle. Ben Wallace fronted and denied Shaq the ball well. Those who didn't watch the series come to conclusions and say Kobe shot them out and Kobe "stopped" Shaq by refusing to pass it to him. That is the furthest thing from the truth. Kobe and the Lakers tried to force-feed him plenty, but Ben was the one that frustrated the hell out of Shaq, not Kobe.

Phil made no adjustments to fix that which was why they lost that series in 5.


Yeah, shut up.

[donald_trump]

lol at kobe taking 22 shots a game while shooting like 35% from the field. that has to be the biggest toolbag move ever. that literally cost them the finals. that chucking.

at least with lebrons reserved nature in the finals they stood a chance because a player that was playing well; wade, had a chance to net points and carry the team.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Oh so you have nothing, I'll inform you since you are uninformed.


Posted this shit a few months ago




Yeah, shut up.

Yes, you're a better coach than Phil Jackson, the guy who said Kobe sabotaged the 2004 Finals in his book. Don't hate the messenger, RG.

[32Dayz]

Kobes supporting Casts have gotten him 5 rings.

He has "1" Finals MVP in 5 Championship Winning Seasons.

http://www.clevelandleader.com/files/kobebryant.jpg

:applause:

[DaPerceive]

Yes, you're a better coach than Phil Jackson, the guy who said Kobe sabotaged the 2004 Finals in his book. Don't hate the messenger, RG.
:oldlol:


Nothing? Yeah thats what I thought. Go make more terrible threads like comparing Wade and Tmac.


Your failed attempt to troll Kobe and his fans have failed again.

[32Dayz]

:oldlol:


Nothing? Yeah thats what I thought. Go make more terrible threads like comparing Wade and Tmac.


Your failed attempt to troll Kobe and his fans have failed again.

He is right though.

Kobe was mad at the world and took his anger out on Shaq and the Team.
PJ publicly said after the series that Kobe was "uncoachable" and wouldn't run the offense the way he wanted him too.

Kobe shot LA out of that series, if he would have deferred to Shaq who was still by far the best player and offensive option on the team they would have won or atleast taken it to 6,7 games.

outside of perhaps 09 (weak Orlando) I've never seen Kobe win a Ring without deferring heavily to an Elite Bigman. (Shaq/Gasol).

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:oldlol:


Nothing? Yeah thats what I thought. Go make more terrible threads like comparing Wade and Tmac.


Your failed attempt to troll Kobe and his fans have failed again.

Yes, lets take a known schizophrenic seriously. Some teenage kid who needs psychiatric treatment. Meanwhile, Phil Jackson, the man who was part of the sideshow, knows little to nothing..who's opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.

[DaPerceive]

Yes, lets take a known schizophrenic seriously. Some teenage kid who needs psychiatric treatment. Meanwhile, Phil Jackson, the man who was part of the sideshow, knows little to nothing..who's opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.
Right, because I am the only person who said/thinks that. :oldlol: Keep attempting to troll though, just understand you are failing miserably. :cheers:

[Jacks3]

lol @ the moronic Kobe haters and their myths. The Lakers lost the 04 Finals by a average margin of 15 pts. You know what game they got blown out the worst? The game where he only took 13 shots. You know what the supporting cast shot outside Shaq? 33%.

The fact people continue that these morons (kuniva,legend666) continue to believe he "shot" them out of the series is just amazing. As if Shaq getting a couple of extra shots per game is going to make a difference in a series where they're getting blown out every game and losing in 5. As if Snaq getting killed on the boards and in the P&R had nothing to do with it. As if the rest of the team shooting 33% on WIDE OPEN jumpers means nothing.

****king idiots. :oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Right, because I am the only person who said/thinks that. :oldlol: Keep attempting to troll though, just understand you are failing miserably. :cheers:

:blah :sleeping

Yes, siding with Phil Jackson makes someone a troll. Sigh...Your arguments are still a joke. I sometimes get more pleasure rubbing shoulders with the homeless on train rides through the city vs reading your posts. You are the invisible man..did you know that? Simply for smelling..not reading or listening to. You're soo cute, RG!

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

lol @ the moronic Kobe haters and their myths. The Lakers lost the 04 Finals by a average margin of 15 pts. You know what game they got blown out the worst? The game where he only took 13 shots. You know what the supporting cast shot outside Shaq? 33%.

The fact people continue that these morons (kuniva,legend666) continue to believe he "shot" them out of the series is just amazing. As if Shaq getting a couple of extra shots per game is going to make a difference in a series where they're getting blown out every game and losing in 5. As if Snaq getting killed on the boards and in the P&R had nothing to do with it. As if the rest of the team shooting 33% on WIDE OPEN jumpers means nothing.

****king idiots. :oldlol:

Isn't this the same clown who claimed Kobe>Jordan? I got this tool so worked up the admins banned his ass :oldlol:

Educate yourself son.

[Jacks3]

Not to mention one guy was playing the best defense ever and the other was playing one of the worst Finals defenses in the last 30 yrs. :oldlol:

[Jacks3]

lol Cuntiva. ****king moron can't deal with the facts. :oldlol:

[DaPerceive]

:blah :sleeping

Yes, siding with Phil Jackson makes someone a troll. Sigh...Your arguments are still a joke. I sometimes get more pleasure rubbing shoulders with the homeless on train rides through the city vs reading your posts. You are the invisible man..did you know that? Simply for smelling..not reading or listening to. You're soo cute, RG!
So you believe everything that Phil Jackson says is correct? If my argument was foolish then people wouldn't have agreed with it. And just for the record, I got that argument from someone else on another site.

He actually posts here as picc84. :oldlol:



Just as a sidenote, Kobe played a horrible series but people seem to think that because Shaq shot a high %, he played a good one. He did not.




I've considered posting this a few times. But its more fun to imagine Kobe dribbling downcourt with devil horns sticking out of his head, cackling like a mad scientist as he shoots while Shaq is wide open under the rim, on both knees, hands clasped together begging for the ball. We tried to forcefeed him plenty. It was almost as good for a turnover as it was a field goal. The game Kobe had the least shot attempts, 13, Shaq still only shot 14 times. If Bryant's chucking was the only thing preventing Shaq from getting the rock and putting it in the hole, you'd think he'd have shot 25+ times with Kobe easing up. But thats not how basketball works.

It is how good the Pistons D was though. "You want to get the ball inside? Good luck." They weren't holding teams to <80ppg because they didn't know how to handle post players. Actually getting the basketball in the paint was a bitch, be you perimeter player or bigman.


Hmm. Some of that seems like....much ado about nothing, considering not once have I said anything positive about Kobe's performance that series.

The point was that the logic of "Kobe stopped Shaq" is faulty. Kobe shot 23 times a game vs Detroit (to Shaq's 16), which is not an egregious amount for him, as a career "volume scorer". The Lakers had played (and won) plenty of series where Kobe took 22+ shots and Shaq still got his 20+ shots as well. What changed in this series? Was Kobe fronting Shaq with the Wallace's when he wasn't shooting? He would have needed to to justify the amount of blame he's gotten for Shaq's difficulty seeing the ball.

In addition to that, Shaq was shooting 11 free throws a game. So his touches aren't necessarily reflected in his shot attempts. Pistons would front, they would deflect, and they would foul. Lakers would have liked to have just been like "Oh hey Shaq, here's the ball, back your guy in and score, would you? kthxbai". Didn't work like that.

The problem with Bryant was the nature of the shots he took, not the literal number of them, which was not an unusual amount for him during the Shaq/Kobe era.

Kobe could have cut back on his attempts and not much would have changed - Shaq would have converted his Pistons-limited number of shots/game at a high %, and everyone else still would have struggled to get any good shot attempt off, let alone a high % one, against the Piston defense.

The only way the Lakers could have won that series, with the injuries they had, was if Kobe Bryant played out of his mind and actually made the shots he took. And that is why they lost. Because he shot the ball poorly - not because he shot too much.

The guards outside of Kobe shot 30% for the series. The small forwards (Walton and George) shot 40%. Nobody was making shots from the perimeter when Kobe fed them, and the Pistons made it difficult to feed Shaq inside the way they would have liked to. Kobe is Kobe, and he thinks he can make anything no matter what. Do the math.

Criticize Kobe's 04 finals all you want. Its deserved. But criticize it for the right reasons. The crap about only Kobe stopping Shaq is just that. Crap.

The reason he had a **** finals is because he shot the ball horribly against ridiculous defensive pressure and couldn't finish inside when he got there. They needed him to score and he couldn't do it. There's your blame. And there's where he should be taking abuse.


You say he should have facilitated more, as if he could magically make bad players play well against the best defense in NBA history.

He did try that. Kobe ain't that good.

As mentioned, the Laker perimeter players outside of Kobe shot in the 30's% for the series. They didn't show up, and as we all know, when Kobe's teammates aren't playing well he takes it upon himself to manufacture points, for better or worse. He saw they weren't producing and he did what he does.

"But picc, Shaq was producing. Why didn't he curb his shot attempts even more and facilitate for him?"

Well,

1. Because it was hard for him to get in the paint period, let alone successfully deliver shovel-passes to O'Neal. And

2. Because Kobe Bryant has rarely curbed his shot attempts in the history of the universe. Its who he is, and the Lakers had won with him playing just as selfishly, usually with him hitting shots he was missing vs Detroit. They just happened to lose this time. Detroit having a retardedly, historically good defense of course having something to do with that.

What Kobe should have done was try to find more efficient ways to score. Passing more was not a formula for success, because the ball being out of his hands was not necessarily a net positive. This illustrated by the biggest margin of defeat in the series being the game where he took by far the least FGA's. None of the other Lakers could create their own shot against the Detroit defense, they weren't converting jumpshots off his dribble-penetration kickouts, and it was a bitch getting the ball to Shaq.

At times they were running a lineup of Kobe, Kareem Rush, Slava Medvedenko, Devean George, and Derek Fisher. With Malone, Grant, and Rick Fox injured, and Payton totally ineffective, this was a worse team top to bottom than Kobe's 2006 squad outside of Shaq. The Lakers needed Kobe to shoot 23 times a game. What they needed that they didn't get, was for him to make more than 8 of them.

Saying he took "bad shots", which is true, is just another way of saying he missed when they needed him to make. Thats where his failure lies. Not in his refusal to put the ball in less capable hands by passing, but by his inability to do what he was paid to do:

Score.

[Legends66NBA7]

The fact people continue that these morons (kuniva,legend666) continue to believe he "shot" them out of the series is just amazing.

I never said anything of the sort. In fact, I have always maintained that the whole damn team collapsed because of what was going on behind the scenes. When a team loses, everyone is accountable for it. Just like this year, when the Lakers lost, that whole team collapsed.

Now go run along to Real GM and steal more of picc84

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

picc84, a Kobe fan.

Shocking! Your guys' self awareness is hilarious.

[Legends66NBA7]

So you believe everything that Phil Jackson says is correct? If my argument was foolish then people wouldn't have agreed with it. And just for the record, I got that argument from someone else on another site.

He actually posts here as picc84. :oldlol:

Well never mind, looks like someone else resurrected picc84...

[DaPerceive]

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]I never said anything of the sort. In fact, I have always maintained that the whole damn team collapsed because of what was going on behind the scenes. When a team loses, everyone is accountable for it. Just like this year, when the Lakers lost, that whole team collapsed.

Now go run along to Real GM and steal more of picc84

[Jacks3]

I never said anything of the sort. In fact, I have always maintained that the whole damn team collapsed because of what was going on behind the scenes. When a team loses, everyone is accountable for it. Just like this year, when the Lakers lost, that whole team collapsed.


Yeah, stop lying. ****king phagett.

Now run along. Keep sucking that dick old man. :oldlol:

[Jacks3]

ust as a sidenote, Kobe played a horrible series but people seem to think that because Shaq shot a high %, he played a good one. He did not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by picc
I've considered posting this a few times. But its more fun to imagine Kobe dribbling downcourt with devil horns sticking out of his head, cackling like a mad scientist as he shoots while Shaq is wide open under the rim, on both knees, hands clasped together begging for the ball. We tried to forcefeed him plenty. It was almost as good for a turnover as it was a field goal. The game Kobe had the least shot attempts, 13, Shaq still only shot 14 times. If Bryant's chucking was the only thing preventing Shaq from getting the rock and putting it in the hole, you'd think he'd have shot 25+ times with Kobe easing up. But thats not how basketball works.

It is how good the Pistons D was though. "You want to get the ball inside? Good luck." They weren't holding teams to <80ppg because they didn't know how to handle post players. Actually getting the basketball in the paint was a bitch, be you perimeter player or bigman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by picc
Hmm. Some of that seems like....much ado about nothing, considering not once have I said anything positive about Kobe's performance that series.

The point was that the logic of "Kobe stopped Shaq" is faulty. Kobe shot 23 times a game vs Detroit (to Shaq's 16), which is not an egregious amount for him, as a career "volume scorer". The Lakers had played (and won) plenty of series where Kobe took 22+ shots and Shaq still got his 20+ shots as well. What changed in this series? Was Kobe fronting Shaq with the Wallace's when he wasn't shooting? He would have needed to to justify the amount of blame he's gotten for Shaq's difficulty seeing the ball.

In addition to that, Shaq was shooting 11 free throws a game. So his touches aren't necessarily reflected in his shot attempts. Pistons would front, they would deflect, and they would foul. Lakers would have liked to have just been like "Oh hey Shaq, here's the ball, back your guy in and score, would you? kthxbai". Didn't work like that.

The problem with Bryant was the nature of the shots he took, not the literal number of them, which was not an unusual amount for him during the Shaq/Kobe era.

Kobe could have cut back on his attempts and not much would have changed - Shaq would have converted his Pistons-limited number of shots/game at a high %, and everyone else still would have struggled to get any good shot attempt off, let alone a high % one, against the Piston defense.

The only way the Lakers could have won that series, with the injuries they had, was if Kobe Bryant played out of his mind and actually made the shots he took. And that is why they lost. Because he shot the ball poorly - not because he shot too much.

The guards outside of Kobe shot 30% for the series. The small forwards (Walton and George) shot 40%. Nobody was making shots from the perimeter when Kobe fed them, and the Pistons made it difficult to feed Shaq inside the way they would have liked to. Kobe is Kobe, and he thinks he can make anything no matter what. Do the math.

Criticize Kobe's 04 finals all you want. Its deserved. But criticize it for the right reasons. The crap about only Kobe stopping Shaq is just that. Crap.

The reason he had a **** finals is because he shot the ball horribly against ridiculous defensive pressure and couldn't finish inside when he got there. They needed him to score and he couldn't do it. There's your blame. And there's where he should be taking abuse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by picc
You say he should have facilitated more, as if he could magically make bad players play well against the best defense in NBA history.

He did try that. Kobe ain't that good.

As mentioned, the Laker perimeter players outside of Kobe shot in the 30's% for the series. They didn't show up, and as we all know, when Kobe's teammates aren't playing well he takes it upon himself to manufacture points, for better or worse. He saw they weren't producing and he did what he does.

"But picc, Shaq was producing. Why didn't he curb his shot attempts even more and facilitate for him?"

Well,

1. Because it was hard for him to get in the paint period, let alone successfully deliver shovel-passes to O'Neal. And

2. Because Kobe Bryant has rarely curbed his shot attempts in the history of the universe. Its who he is, and the Lakers had won with him playing just as selfishly, usually with him hitting shots he was missing vs Detroit. They just happened to lose this time. Detroit having a retardedly, historically good defense of course having something to do with that.

What Kobe should have done was try to find more efficient ways to score. Passing more was not a formula for success, because the ball being out of his hands was not necessarily a net positive. This illustrated by the biggest margin of defeat in the series being the game where he took by far the least FGA's. None of the other Lakers could create their own shot against the Detroit defense, they weren't converting jumpshots off his dribble-penetration kickouts, and it was a bitch getting the ball to Shaq.

At times they were running a lineup of Kobe, Kareem Rush, Slava Medvedenko, Devean George, and Derek Fisher. With Malone, Grant, and Rick Fox injured, and Payton totally ineffective, this was a worse team top to bottom than Kobe's 2006 squad outside of Shaq. The Lakers needed Kobe to shoot 23 times a game. What they needed that they didn't get, was for him to make more than 8 of them.

Saying he took "bad shots", which is true, is just another way of saying he missed when they needed him to make. Thats where his failure lies. Not in his refusal to put the ball in less capable hands by passing, but by his inability to do what he was paid to do:

Cuntiva and that dumasss bitch legend666 getting ethered. :oldlol:

[32Dayz]

Zzz... these big paragraphs are pointless.

Everyone knows why they lost its not a secret.

1. (75%) Kobe playing poorly, playing outside of the offense and not making more of an effort to feed Shaq.

2. (10%) K.Malone getting injured.

3. (10%) Detroits amazing defense.

3. (5%) Billups owning Payton.

/Thread

:applause:

[Jacks3]

ust as a sidenote, Kobe played a horrible series but people seem to think that because Shaq shot a high %, he played a good one. He did not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by picc
I've considered posting this a few times. But its more fun to imagine Kobe dribbling downcourt with devil horns sticking out of his head, cackling like a mad scientist as he shoots while Shaq is wide open under the rim, on both knees, hands clasped together begging for the ball. We tried to forcefeed him plenty. It was almost as good for a turnover as it was a field goal. The game Kobe had the least shot attempts, 13, Shaq still only shot 14 times. If Bryant's chucking was the only thing preventing Shaq from getting the rock and putting it in the hole, you'd think he'd have shot 25+ times with Kobe easing up. But thats not how basketball works.

It is how good the Pistons D was though. "You want to get the ball inside? Good luck." They weren't holding teams to <80ppg because they didn't know how to handle post players. Actually getting the basketball in the paint was a bitch, be you perimeter player or bigman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by picc
Hmm. Some of that seems like....much ado about nothing, considering not once have I said anything positive about Kobe's performance that series.

The point was that the logic of "Kobe stopped Shaq" is faulty. Kobe shot 23 times a game vs Detroit (to Shaq's 16), which is not an egregious amount for him, as a career "volume scorer". The Lakers had played (and won) plenty of series where Kobe took 22+ shots and Shaq still got his 20+ shots as well. What changed in this series? Was Kobe fronting Shaq with the Wallace's when he wasn't shooting? He would have needed to to justify the amount of blame he's gotten for Shaq's difficulty seeing the ball.

In addition to that, Shaq was shooting 11 free throws a game. So his touches aren't necessarily reflected in his shot attempts. Pistons would front, they would deflect, and they would foul. Lakers would have liked to have just been like "Oh hey Shaq, here's the ball, back your guy in and score, would you? kthxbai". Didn't work like that.

The problem with Bryant was the nature of the shots he took, not the literal number of them, which was not an unusual amount for him during the Shaq/Kobe era.

Kobe could have cut back on his attempts and not much would have changed - Shaq would have converted his Pistons-limited number of shots/game at a high %, and everyone else still would have struggled to get any good shot attempt off, let alone a high % one, against the Piston defense.

The only way the Lakers could have won that series, with the injuries they had, was if Kobe Bryant played out of his mind and actually made the shots he took. And that is why they lost. Because he shot the ball poorly - not because he shot too much.

The guards outside of Kobe shot 30% for the series. The small forwards (Walton and George) shot 40%. Nobody was making shots from the perimeter when Kobe fed them, and the Pistons made it difficult to feed Shaq inside the way they would have liked to. Kobe is Kobe, and he thinks he can make anything no matter what. Do the math.

Criticize Kobe's 04 finals all you want. Its deserved. But criticize it for the right reasons. The crap about only Kobe stopping Shaq is just that. Crap.

The reason he had a **** finals is because he shot the ball horribly against ridiculous defensive pressure and couldn't finish inside when he got there. They needed him to score and he couldn't do it. There's your blame. And there's where he should be taking abuse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by picc
You say he should have facilitated more, as if he could magically make bad players play well against the best defense in NBA history.

He did try that. Kobe ain't that good.

As mentioned, the Laker perimeter players outside of Kobe shot in the 30's% for the series. They didn't show up, and as we all know, when Kobe's teammates aren't playing well he takes it upon himself to manufacture points, for better or worse. He saw they weren't producing and he did what he does.

"But picc, Shaq was producing. Why didn't he curb his shot attempts even more and facilitate for him?"

Well,

1. Because it was hard for him to get in the paint period, let alone successfully deliver shovel-passes to O'Neal. And

2. Because Kobe Bryant has rarely curbed his shot attempts in the history of the universe. Its who he is, and the Lakers had won with him playing just as selfishly, usually with him hitting shots he was missing vs Detroit. They just happened to lose this time. Detroit having a retardedly, historically good defense of course having something to do with that.

What Kobe should have done was try to find more efficient ways to score. Passing more was not a formula for success, because the ball being out of his hands was not necessarily a net positive. This illustrated by the biggest margin of defeat in the series being the game where he took by far the least FGA's. None of the other Lakers could create their own shot against the Detroit defense, they weren't converting jumpshots off his dribble-penetration kickouts, and it was a bitch getting the ball to Shaq.

At times they were running a lineup of Kobe, Kareem Rush, Slava Medvedenko, Devean George, and Derek Fisher. With Malone, Grant, and Rick Fox injured, and Payton totally ineffective, this was a worse team top to bottom than Kobe's 2006 squad outside of Shaq. The Lakers needed Kobe to shoot 23 times a game. What they needed that they didn't get, was for him to make more than 8 of them.

Saying he took "bad shots", which is true, is just another way of saying he missed when they needed him to make. Thats where his failure lies. Not in his refusal to put the ball in less capable hands by passing, but by his inability to do what he was paid to do:
Cuntiva and that old bittch legend666 getting owned. :oldlol:

[32Dayz]

There is obviously a problem when you have your main star (Shaq) shooting 65%+ and other star (Kobe) is shooting below 40% and is taking the majority of the shot attempts.

Blame PJ, Blame Kobe.. but its clear that was the main issue.

PJ did publically state after the series that Kobe wasnt running the offense the way he wanted to and that he was "uncoachable" and considering the circumstances that Kobe was in that year and what he said to the media I am inclined to believe him.

If Kobe had shot well from the field maybe they still would have won but he was unable to score against the Detroit Defense effectively in the way Shaq could so he should have deferred.

:applause:

[Legends66NBA7]

Let me ask you this, who's finals performance was worse, Kobe's in 04 or Lebron's in 11? I actually do think you are a decent poster. That kunt or whatever his name is on the other hand, I don't think so

LeBron's was worse. I have already maintained this before. He was in the prime of his career, not even injured at all, and he completely collapsed to the mental game. So disappointing and frustrating. It's like, what happened to this guy? Last 2 series, he ripped the heart of both the Celtics and Bulls and now he is cowering to Stevenson and Terry's words?

Kobe on the other hand at least won a game dying to try. But the rest was still terrible and nobody is going to change that. If he was also banged up as all hell, why not ride Shaq to the finish line? I mean "we play to win the game" right?

But there was so much animosity between that whole team, the injuries piling up, Gary Payton didn't know how to run that offense, Karl Malone being injury prone at the worst possible time for his iron man career, and everyone else also shot crap. Kobe gets the majority of the blame yes because he was one of the leaders and well you would expect him to play better. But he stunk. Outside of Shaq statistically, everyone else played horrible. I get that. But that

[Legends66NBA7]

Yeah, stop lying. ****king phagett.

Now run along. Keep sucking that dick old man. :oldlol:

Go run along and make 31+ more accounts on Real GM, Nataila Bryant. I know you love to suck them off.

[Jacks3]

Go run along
Go run along sucking everyone's **** like the old phagettt you are. I know how much you love to suck them off. Go on.

[32Dayz]

I dunno.. I think Lebron's 11 Performance was terrible but I just cant say its worse then Kobe in 04.

Kobe in 04 actually did significant damage to that teams title hopes by dominating the offense and failing to produce.

Lebron in 11 simply failed to contribute enough for his team to succeed but still did a good job deferring to his teammates and didn't shoot his team out of multiple games the way Kobe did in 04..

[DaPerceive]

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]LeBron's was worse. I have already maintained this before. He was in the prime of his career, not even injured at all, and he completely collapsed to the mental game. So disappointing and frustrating. It's like, what happened to this guy? Last 2 series, he ripped the heart of both the Celtics and Bulls and now he is cowering to Stevenson and Terry's words?

Kobe on the other hand at least won a game dying to try. But the rest was still terrible and nobody is going to change that. If he was also banged up as all hell, why not ride Shaq to the finish line? I mean "we play to win the game" right?

But there was so much animosity between that whole team, the injuries piling up, Gary Payton didn't know how to run that offense, Karl Malone being injury prone at the worst possible time for his iron man career, and everyone else also shot crap. Kobe gets the majority of the blame yes because he was one of the leaders and well you would expect him to play better. But he stunk. Outside of Shaq statistically, everyone else played horrible. I get that. But that

[Legends66NBA7]

Go run along sucking everyone's **** like the old phagettt you are. I know how much you love to suck them off. Go on.

http://207.58.151.151/forum/showpost.php?p=6106177&postcount=51

:violin:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

http://207.58.151.151/forum/showpost.php?p=6106177&postcount=51

:violin:

:roll:

Kid was probably in the fetal position after that sonning.

[Jacks3]

http://207.58.151.151/forum/showpost.php?p=6106177&postcount=51

:violin:
Mad because you got owned like the old phhagett geezer you are. :violin:

[Jacks3]

Cuntiva sad because his pathetic arguments were shot down quick.

Dumass moron. :oldlol:

[32Dayz]

Well you have.

Player A : Dominates his teams offense produces 30ppg on 38% Shooting

Player B : Defers to his teammates and produces 31ppg on 48% Shooting

^(Production = APG x 2 + PPG)^

Player A : Good Defense + 2 rebounds per game.
Player B : Good Defense + 7 rebounds per game.

Player A : Kobe
Player B : Lebron

[Legends66NBA7]

I dunno.. I think Lebron's 11 Performance was terrible but I just cant say its worse then Kobe in 04.

Kobe in 04 actually did significant damage to that teams title hopes by dominating the offense and failing to produce.

Lebron in 11 simply failed to contribute enough for his team to succeed but still did a good job deferring to his teammates and didn't shoot his team out of multiple games the way Kobe did in 04..

I think they

[DaPerceive]

Kobe has more of an excuse to play poorly in the 04 finals than Lebron does in the 11 finals too. Kobe went up against the greatest defense of the decade, and arguably one of the greatest defenses of all-time. Lebron? He went up against the Dallas Mavericks.

What is funny is that Lebron's 07 and 11 finals performances are being compared to Kobe's 04 Finals performance which was his absolute worst. That is very telling is it not?

[32Dayz]

Eh.. I just look at it like.

Kobe dominated the ball far more then Lebron did.

He shot "alot" more but didn't actually produce better offensively.

Lebron contributed more in other ways (Rebounding)

So.. I mean I just dont see why I should give Kobe credit for having a better series.

They were both terrible but Lebron did less damage.

I dont see why having a better mindset or aggressive approach counts for anything if it fails to translate into better or more productive play.

[Legends66NBA7]

Well you have.

Player A : Dominates his teams offense produces 30ppg on 38% Shooting

Player B : Defers to his teammates and produces 31ppg on 48% Shooting

^(Production = APG x 2 + PPG)^

Player A : Good Defense + 2 rebounds per game.
Player B : Good Defense + 7 rebounds per game.

Player A : Kobe
Player B : Lebron

I guess you raised the ppg. But stats alone aren't going to tell us the whole story on this. We would have to go watch the games again to make sure what we saw fits the stats.

[32Dayz]

I guess you raised the ppg. But stats alone aren't going to tell us the whole story on this. We would have to go watch the games again to make sure what we saw fits the stats.

Well by pure PPG it was still close 17/22

I just gave each one 2ppg per Assist to get those numbers.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe has more of an excuse to play poorly in the 04 finals than Lebron does in the 11 finals too. Kobe went up against the greatest defense of the decade, and arguably one of the greatest defenses of all-time. Lebron? He went up against the Dallas Mavericks.

What is funny is that Lebron's 07 and 11 finals performances are being compared to Kobe's 04 Finals performance which was his absolute worst. That is very telling is it not?

Kobe had more of an excuse to play bad? The team freaking blew up and was drastically different because of that egomaniac. Do you think before or after you post?

Both series were terrible, I just don't think Lebron's was as bad, no way. Especially not in 2007 where his team wasn't even expected to win.

[eliteballer]

Kobe ball: 5 championships

Lebron ball: 0 championships

[32Dayz]

Kobe ball: 5 championships

Lebron ball: 0 championships

This isn't Golf and Kobe isn't Tiger Woods.

:facepalm

Kobe is a Great (GOAT) player but he has only clearly been the best player on his team for one of his five Championships (09).

You can make an argument for 2010 also but I think Gasol overall was more valuable in that years playoffs.

[Legends66NBA7]

Eh.. I just look at it like.

Kobe dominated the ball far more then Lebron did.

He shot "alot" more but didn't actually produce better offensively.

Lebron contributed more in other ways (Rebounding)

So.. I mean I just dont see why I should give Kobe credit for having a better series.

They were both terrible but Lebron did less damage.

I dont see why having a better mindset or aggressive approach counts for anything if it fails to translate into better or more productive play.

Well no, I am not trying to say give Kobe more credit (because he doesn't).

IMO, mentally Kobe was there and you would expect him to translate more results, but he just didn't. He had one great game and translated to a win.

You expect the same from LeBron, but you don't expect him to worry about doing less damage to the team, you expect him to do what he did against Boston and Chicago.

Maybe I am just wrong on this, but I just give Kobe a notch over LeBron on this one (though it's not saying much at all).

[DaPerceive]

Kobe had more of an excuse to play bad? The team freaking blew up and was drastically different because of that egomaniac. Do you think before or after you post?

Both series were terrible, I just don't think Lebron's was as bad, no way. Especially not in 2007 where his team wasn't even expected to win.
Sure, now go talk to someone who actually cares about what you think. I was talking to pretty much anyone.......except you.

[eliteballer]

Nor is it football or baseball.

Sucka:pimp:

[Legends66NBA7]

This isn't Golf and Kobe isn't Tiger Woods.

:facepalm

Kobe is a Great (GOAT) player but he has only clearly been the best player on his team for one of his five Championships (09).

Good thing were not getting into a Kobe vs Tiger individual debate. Kobe wold get smoked out of the water.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Cuntiva sad because his pathetic arguments were shot down quick.

Dumass moron. :oldlol:

I think my insult cut a little deep, it was pretty mean. I apologize if i hurt your feelings bro.

You stealing posts is comic relief though.

[Deuce Bigalow]

This isn't Golf and Kobe isn't Tiger Woods.

:facepalm

Kobe is a Great (GOAT) player but he has only clearly been the best player on his team for one of his five Championships (09).

You can make an argument for 2010 also but I think Gasol overall was more valuable in that years playoffs.

You might just be the dumbest poster here

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Sure, now go talk to someone who actually cares about what you think. I was talking to pretty much anyone.......except you.

Apparently you care enough to continue quoting me.

Contradictory, thy name is RG!

[32Dayz]

u :mad: ?

Not at all. :cheers:

[DaPerceive]

Apparently you care enough to continue quoting me.

Contradictory, thy name is RG!
You got me :rolleyes:

[Legends66NBA7]

Kobe ball: 5 championships

Lebron ball: 0 championships

Shouldn't you say the Triangle offense ball won 5 rings, "Laker fan" ?

[Deuce Bigalow]

34dayz, Is Larry Bird better than Kobe?

[32Dayz]

34dayz, Is Larry Bird better than Kobe?

Peak or Prime Bird is certainly better then Kobe ever was.

[Legends66NBA7]

Peak or Prime Bird is certainly better then Kobe ever was.

+1.

http://www.collectors-society.com/usercontent/images/article_images/SI_110981_large.jpg

[Deuce Bigalow]

according to PER

Larry's best Playoff runs
26.3
23.9
21.8
21.8
20.9

Title years
21.8
20.3
23.9

Kobe's best Playoff runs
26.8
25.0
25.0
24.7
24.1

Title years
19.3
25.0
20.5
26.8
24.7

Its PER, its a fact, cant argue with it....

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You got me :rolleyes:

Saying Lebron or Kobe was worse is a matter of opinion. The problem is your floppy vag constantly gets tangled by your thong.

I'm down for an honest discussion. :confusedshrug:

[DaPerceive]

Saying Lebron or Kobe was worse is a matter of opinion. The problem is your floppy vag constantly gets tangled by your thong.

I'm down for an honest discussion. :confusedshrug:
That is a riveting tale chap.



34dayz, Is Larry Bird better than Kobe?
This post was not directed towards me, but while I do think this is true. I think it is a lot closer than what most people think.

[32Dayz]

Its PER, its a fact, cant argue with it....

PER is the stat I use choose to gauge overall "statistical" production.

It is far from the only tool I use to judge and rank players.

Things like intangibles dont show up in PER.

Bird has GOAT intangibles while Kobe has average to mediocre ones.

Kobe does not have a very large edge in overall Production while Bird does have a gigantic edge in Intangibles.



Kobe : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.8
Top 5 : 24
Top 7 : 23

Bird : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.3
Top 5 : 22.64
Top 7 : 22

[Legends66NBA7]

Saying Lebron or Kobe was worse is a matter of opinion.

Exactly, we all got different viewpoints. We might be watching the same game, but would come up with a different opinion because we would have to bring everything under context.

To be honest, there's no wrong or right answer this one. And the one we do pick that was better will still be garbage considering how bad they both played.

[eliteballer]

Shouldn't you say the Triangle offense ball won 5 rings, "Laker fan" ?

Gee, poor LeBron only has Wade and Bosh. if only he had the triangle instead:roll:

[Deuce Bigalow]

PER is the stat I use choose to gauge overall "statistical" production.

It is far from the only tool I use to judge and rank players.

Things like intangibles dont show up in PER.

Bird has GOAT intangibles while Kobe has average to mediocre ones.

Kobe does not have a huge edge in overall Production while Bird does have a gigantic edge in intangibles.

Oh so it doesnt fit your agenda now does it

[DaPerceive]

according to PER

Larry's best Playoff runs
26.3
23.9
21.8
21.8
20.9

Title years
21.8
20.3
23.9

Kobe's best Playoff runs
26.8
25.0
25.0
24.7
24.1

Title years
19.3
25.0
20.5
26.8
24.7

Its PER, its a fact, cant argue with it....
PER only shows the production. I am not a believer that the more productive player is always the better player. That being said, both Bird and Kobe are overrated in the clutch.

[Legends66NBA7]

Gee, poor LeBron only has Wade and Bosh. if only he had the triangle instead:roll:

I could care less about LeBron and what he needs.

Call it the Triangle ball that won 5 rings next time, man. Actually be proud of the Lakers and not just one man who was on those teams. Seriously.

[Jacks3]

I'm a biased piece of shit.


True. You still mad because your "arguments" were shot down quick. I apologize if I hurt your feelings, bro.

Moron. :oldlol:

[32Dayz]

Oh so it doesnt fit your agenda now does it

I have no Agenda, if you want to assume I judge players purely on PER that's your choice but it doesn't make it anymore true.

:applause:

[Deuce Bigalow]

34dayz, tell me how Pau Gasol was the best player on '10 Lakers

[Jacks3]

The Greatness of Kobe Bean Bryant!!!
9X All-NBA 1st Team
2X All-NBA 2nd Team
2X All-NBA 3rd Team
9X All-NBA 1st Team Defense
2X All-NBA 2nd Team Defense
5X Top 5 DPOY/9X Top 10 DPOY
13X Time All-Star
4X Time All-Star MVP
2X NBA Finals MVP
1X NBA MVP
10th All-Time in MVP Shares
2X Scoring Champion
5 Time NBA Champion
7 Time NBA Finalist
10 55+ Win Seasons
15X Player of the Month Winner
Slam Dunk Champion (1997)
#1 Offensive APM (10 Year Study)
#10 All-Time in WAR
24 Career Average PER (15 Seasons)
2X Gold Medalist
Sporting News Player of the Decade
TNT Player of the Decade
ESPN Player of the Decade
Sports Illustrated Top 20 Male Athlete of the Decade (2000s) #7 (the only NBA player in the top 10)


Has more 50+ point games than any player in history not named Wilt or Jordan (25)
Has more 40+ point games than any player in history not named Wilt or Jordan (110)
Has more 60+ point games than any player in history not named Wilt (5)
Record Holder: Highest percentage of team points (2005-2006)
Record Holder: Most threes in one game (12)
Only player in history to score at least 600 points in three consecutive post-seasons
2001-2010 RS: 28.6 PPG/5.7 RPG/5.4 APG/1.7 SPG/0.6 BPG/56% TS
2001-2010 PS: 28.8 PPG/5.8 RPG/5.2 APG/1.8 SPG/0.6 BPG/56% TS
Some of his best seasons:
35 PPG/5 RPG/5 APG/2 SPG/0.5 BPG/56% TS
32 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/1.5 SPG/0.5 BPG/58% TS
30 PPG/7 RPG/6 APG/2 SPG/1 BPG/55% TS
29 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/2 SPG/0.6 BPG/55% TS
28 PPG/6 RPG/6 APG/2 SPG/0.5 BPG/58% TS
27 PPG/5 RPG/5 APG/1.5 SPG/0.5 BPG/56% TS
27 PPG/5 RPG/5 APG/1.5 SPG/0.4 BPG/55% TS
28 PPG/6 RPG/6 APG/1.4 SPG/0.5 BPG/56% TS
26 PPG/6 APG/6 RPG/2 SPG/0.6 BPG/55% TS
Some of his best post-seasons:
29 PPG/7 RPG/6 APG/2 SPG/1 BPG/56% TS (16 games)
27 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/2 SPG/0.5 BPG/52% TS (22 games)
30 PPG/6 APG/6 APG/1.4 SPG/0.5 BPG/58% TS (22 games)
30 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/1.5 SPG/0.4 BPG/57% TS (23 games)
29 PPG/6 RPG/6 APG/1.4 SPG/0.4 BPG/57% TS (23 games)
29 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/1.3 SPG/0.3 BPG/58% TS (7 games)
33 PPG/5 RPG/5 APG/1.4 SPG/0.4 BPG/56% TS (5 games)
4 straight 45+ point games (2006)
4 straight 50+ point games (2007)
9 straight 40+ point games (2003)
13 straight 35+ point games (2003)
81 pts
62 points in three quarters. Outscored opposing team by himself.
27 40+ point games in one season (Only Wilt/Jordan have done that)
10 50+ point games in one season (Only player beside Wilt to do so)
Has three different games where he scored 30+ in one quarter.
Has six different games where he scored 50+ pts though three quarters.
Has five different months where he averaged 40+ PPG.
One of seven players ever with 25,000 pts/5,000 rbs/5,000 asts
6th on All-Time Scoring List
4th on All-Time Playoff Scoring List


Damn. Cuntiva and Legend666 getting shitted on.

Phagetts. :oldlol:

[Deuce Bigalow]

^
hes 3rd on the Alltime Playoff scoring list

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_career_p.html

[32Dayz]

34dayz, tell me how Pau Gasol was the best player on '10 Lakers

Sure thing.

I think he was better and more valuable in the OKC and Boston Series.

I think he was equally as valuable or possibly even more valuable in the Utah Series.

His Production over the entire playoffs was equal to Kobe's and he led the team in WShares by a sizable amount.

I personally feel Gasol was the teams best defender and had the biggest defensive impact on the team in the 2010 playoffs while Kobe was very unimpressive defensively in that PSeason.

Put this all together and I feel Gasol was the best overall player in that years playoffs and the FMVP.

I dont think Gasol had a huge edge or something, Kobe was the leader and the team wouldnt have won or contended without him but I do think Gasol was the best player on the team in that years playoffs.

[Jacks3]

The Greatness of Kobe Bean Bryant!!!
9X All-NBA 1st Team
2X All-NBA 2nd Team
2X All-NBA 3rd Team
9X All-NBA 1st Team Defense
2X All-NBA 2nd Team Defense
5X Top 5 DPOY/9X Top 10 DPOY
13X Time All-Star
4X Time All-Star MVP
2X NBA Finals MVP
1X NBA MVP
10th All-Time in MVP Shares
2X Scoring Champion
5 Time NBA Champion
7 Time NBA Finalist
10 55+ Win Seasons
15X Player of the Month Winner
Slam Dunk Champion (1997)
#1 Offensive APM (10 Year Study)
#10 All-Time in WAR
24 Career Average PER (15 Seasons)
2X Gold Medalist
Sporting News Player of the Decade
TNT Player of the Decade
ESPN Player of the Decade
Sports Illustrated Top 20 Male Athlete of the Decade (2000s) #7 (the only NBA player in the top 10)


Has more 50+ point games than any player in history not named Wilt or Jordan (25)
Has more 40+ point games than any player in history not named Wilt or Jordan (110)
Has more 60+ point games than any player in history not named Wilt (5)
Record Holder: Highest percentage of team points (2005-2006)
Record Holder: Most threes in one game (12)
Only player in history to score at least 600 points in three consecutive post-seasons
2001-2010 RS: 28.6 PPG/5.7 RPG/5.4 APG/1.7 SPG/0.6 BPG/56% TS
2001-2010 PS: 28.8 PPG/5.8 RPG/5.2 APG/1.8 SPG/0.6 BPG/56% TS
Some of his best seasons:
35 PPG/5 RPG/5 APG/2 SPG/0.5 BPG/56% TS
32 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/1.5 SPG/0.5 BPG/58% TS
30 PPG/7 RPG/6 APG/2 SPG/1 BPG/55% TS
29 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/2 SPG/0.6 BPG/55% TS
28 PPG/6 RPG/6 APG/2 SPG/0.5 BPG/58% TS
27 PPG/5 RPG/5 APG/1.5 SPG/0.5 BPG/56% TS
27 PPG/5 RPG/5 APG/1.5 SPG/0.4 BPG/55% TS
28 PPG/6 RPG/6 APG/1.4 SPG/0.5 BPG/56% TS
26 PPG/6 APG/6 RPG/2 SPG/0.6 BPG/55% TS
Some of his best post-seasons:
29 PPG/7 RPG/6 APG/2 SPG/1 BPG/56% TS (16 games)
27 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/2 SPG/0.5 BPG/52% TS (22 games)
30 PPG/6 APG/6 APG/1.4 SPG/0.5 BPG/58% TS (22 games)
30 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/1.5 SPG/0.4 BPG/57% TS (23 games)
29 PPG/6 RPG/6 APG/1.4 SPG/0.4 BPG/57% TS (23 games)
29 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/1.3 SPG/0.3 BPG/58% TS (7 games)
33 PPG/5 RPG/5 APG/1.4 SPG/0.4 BPG/56% TS (5 games)
4 straight 45+ point games (2006)
4 straight 50+ point games (2007)
9 straight 40+ point games (2003)
13 straight 35+ point games (2003)
81 pts
62 points in three quarters. Outscored opposing team by himself.
27 40+ point games in one season (Only Wilt/Jordan have done that)
10 50+ point games in one season (Only player beside Wilt to do so)
Has three different games where he scored 30+ in one quarter.
Has six different games where he scored 50+ pts though three quarters.
Has five different months where he averaged 40+ PPG.
One of seven players ever with 25,000 pts/5,000 rbs/5,000 asts
6th on All-Time Scoring List
3rd on All-Time Playoff Scoring List

:violin:

[32Dayz]

^
hes 3rd on the Alltime Playoff scoring list

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_career_p.html

600 more FGAttempts then Shaq and only 30 more points. :eek:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Sure thing.

I think he was better and more valuable in the OKC and Boston Series.

I think he was equally as valuable or possibly even more valuable in the Utah Series.

His Production over the entire playoffs was equal to Kobe's and he led the team in WShares by a sizable amount.

I personally feel Gasol was the teams best defender and had the biggest defensive impact on the team in the 2010 playoffs while Kobe was very unimpressive defensively in that PSeason.

Put this all together and I feel Gasol was the best overall player in that years playoffs and the FMVP.

I dont think Gasol had a huge edge or something, Kobe was the leader and the team wouldnt have won or contended without him but I do think Gasol was the best player on the team in that years playoffs.

:lol
that made my day

[Deuce Bigalow]

600 more FGAttempts then Shaq and only 30 more points. :eek:

hmmm I wonder why
Shaq a 7'1" center that plays inside 5 feet
Kobe a 6'6" perimeter player that takes perimeter shots

[Jacks3]

:roll: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

lol @ that moron 32dayz. He makes cuntiva and ledumass look smart. :oldlol:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

PER is the stat I use choose to gauge overall "statistical" production.

It is far from the only tool I use to judge and rank players.

Things like intangibles dont show up in PER.

Bird has GOAT intangibles while Kobe has average to mediocre ones.

Kobe does not have a very large edge in overall Production while Bird does have a gigantic edge in Intangibles.

What specific intangibles are you referring to?

[32Dayz]

:roll: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

lol @ that moron 32dayz. He makes cuntiva and ledumass look smart. :oldlol:

lol :lol

[Doranku]

Yeah, LeBron in the '06-07 Finals. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Someone just negged me saying, "he didn't even make the finals in '07"...

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

How could you have missed him? He was the one turning the ball over every other possession.

[Big#50]

Kobe has more of an excuse to play poorly in the 04 finals than Lebron does in the 11 finals too. Kobe went up against the greatest defense of the decade, and arguably one of the greatest defenses of all-time. Lebron? He went up against the Dallas Mavericks.

What is funny is that Lebron's 07 and 11 finals performances are being compared to Kobe's 04 Finals performance which was his absolute worst. That is very telling is it not?
This is false. Detroit, while having an excellent perimeter defender in Prince, were dominant inside. Kobe does not play inside. He takes jump shots. No excuse for Kobe stinking it up.

[Jacks3]

One guy played the best defense ever while not playing healthy (had to take IV's at half-time every game) and having the rest of his teammates outside Shaq shot 33% while his team lost by a average margin of 15 PPG.

The other played one of the worst Finals defenses in the last 30 years while being completely healthy and getting very good support for his teammates especially Wade/Bosh/Chalmers. His team was up 2-1 and every single game was very close outside Game 1.

Yeah. LeBron's was worst. Kobe could have done his usual numbers from that year (24/5/5/55-56% TS) and the Lakers still wouldn't have had a shot. The Heat just needed LBJ to be average and they would have won it all. Plus, at least Kobe gave seemed to give a lot more effort, while LBJ just...didn't.

[amfirst]

At least Kobe tried. LeBron just gave up.

[Big#50]

One guy played the best defense ever while not playing healthy (had to take IV's at half-time every game) and having the rest of his teammates outside Shaq shot 33% while his team lost by a average margin of 15 PPG.

The other played one of the worst Finals defenses in the last 30 years while being completely healthy and getting very good support for his teammates especially Wade/Bosh/Chalmers. His team was up 2-1 and every single game was very close outside Game 1.

Yeah. LeBron's was worst. Kobe could have done his usual numbers from that year (24/5/5/55-56% TS) and the Lakers still wouldn't have had a shot. The Heat just needed LBJ to be average and they would have won it all. Plus, at least Kobe gave seemed to give a lot more effort, while LBJ just...didn't.
Again. Bullshit. Detroit was great because of its interior D. Kobe is a jump shooter. He was missing everything. He tried being the man and fell flat on his face. LOL @ Morons like you who overrate him.

[Nevaeh]

600 more FGAttempts then Shaq and only 30 more points. :eek:

Now THAT sh!t's hilarious. No wonder these Kobe clowns hold on to TS% like their lives depend on it.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Now THAT sh!t's hilarious. No wonder these Kobe clowns hold on to TS% like their lives depend on it.

Right? Apparently FG% is outdated and incredibly flawed. Hubie Brown and Phil Jackson don't have the slightest fukkin clue when they talk about missed shots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_WNTx3gG_s#t=02m14s

This old fart has no idea..

[stephanieg]

Dirk sucked in 2007, Ewing was completely shut down against Hakeem.

[TOUCH MY BODY]

LeBron only gives you 3 qtrs.

[Jacks3]

Again. Bullshit..
LOL @ u morons who underrate him. Detroit was the best defense ever. The numbers don't lie son. It's not even comparable to what Bron did.

Deal with it clown. :oldlol:

[32Dayz]

At least Kobe tried. LeBron just gave up.

Bad : Deferring and Failing to contribute enough for your team to win. (2011 Lebron)

Worse : Trying and failing horribly (2004 - Kobe) and single handedly ruining any chance your team has of winning the title.

2004 reminded me alot of the late 90's where Young Kobe and Nick Van Chucker consistently sunk the Lakers in the playoffs by bricking enough shots to build the Taj Mahal.

Lebron 2011 (17/7/7 48%) >>> Kobe 2004 (22/2/2 38%)

[rodman91]

http://gyazo.com/e3185f81ac915109fa9f20ca704bce1c.png

http://www.nerdnirvana.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/natalie-portman-crying.gif

:roll: