Derrick rose = shooting guard

[oolalaa]

Derrick Rose needs to move to shooting guard as soon as this pathetic lockout is over!

I think this for a couple of reasons...

1. It's incredibly hard to win a championship with a slashing point guard who is also your main scorer. In fact, it's so hard that no team in history has done it (A.I came closest in 01').

2. His skills are more suited to the 2 guard position. He is a good playmaker but not a great one and is always looking to attack the rim.

Although he would be a slightly undersized shooting guard, he has more than enough athletic ability to make up for it and he wouldn't be burdened with the task of running an offense.

Does anyone else agree with me?

[Legends66NBA7]

So, who's the starting point guard then ?

[DaPerceive]

Rose is a scoring point guard. That doesn't mean he should start playing shooting guard. Do you think Tony Parker should have been playing shooting guard all this time? What about Chauncey Billups?

[9512]

It would work out great if he wasn't only 6 foot 3.

I would be more inclined to agree with he was at least 6 foot 5.

[RRR3]

It would work out great if he wasn't only 6 foot 3.

I would be more inclined to agree with he was at least 6 foot 5.
Eric Gordon and Monta Ellis are 6'3.

[9512]

^^

:( :facepalm my bad.

But I would still prefer Derrick at 6 foot 5...to play the 2.

[Fiasco]

Eric Gordon and Monta Ellis are 6'3.

Gordon is built like a truck, though.

[blacknapalm]

rose just needs to learn how to pass better in traffic. westbrook = SG. if rose had more options than deng on offense, i'd believe this. westbrook is able to get away with a lot more.

[Vienceslav]

It

[Go Getter]

Derrick Rose needs to move to shooting guard as soon as this pathetic lockout is over!

I think this for a couple of reasons...

1. It's incredibly hard to win a championship with a slashing point guard who is also your main scorer. In fact, it's so hard that no team in history has done it (A.I came closest in 01').

2. His skills are more suited to the 2 guard position. He is a good playmaker but not a great one and is always looking to attack the rim.

Although he would be a slightly undersized shooting guard, he has more than enough athletic ability to make up for it and he wouldn't be burdened with the task of running an offense.

Does anyone else agree with me?
I do NOT agree.

1. WRONG. Tony Parker and Zeke....also, Billups and maybe you could say Archibald.

2. WRONG AGAIN. Dude averages close to 8 assists a game. That is good for a point guard. But if you watch the Bulls you'd see we NEED him to score. It's not his fault, Boozer, Brewer, Korver, Noah and Deng need to step it up offensively.

He would be a VERY undersized shooting guard at 6'2", would take more punishment guarding bigger stronger players, and he just ins't a 2-guard, he's a scoring point that does what his team needs.

If when we get another scorer he will adjust his game accordingly.

But as a franchise and a team we ASKED Rose to shoot more threes and to takeover games. It's not exactly his style.

[Go Getter]

[QUOTE=Vienceslav]It

[Go Getter]

rose just needs to learn how to pass better in traffic. westbrook = SG. if rose had more options than deng on offense, i'd believe this. westbrook is able to get away with a lot more.


What are you talking about man you don't even watch Bulls games.

Rose is a good passer. All world? No, but few point guards are. He just needs to learn tendencies and nuances more--he's young.

At any rate he's one of the best finishers in the world....if you were his coach and told him to pass to lesser players when he's on a foray to the hoop you' be doing your team a disservice.

[Go Getter]

Gordon is built like a truck, though.
Gordon is a bit taller than Derrick, he's only 6'2" at best.

[pauk]

i agree i have said this since day 1.....

there is no such thing as a scoring point guard........... there is only a point guard who can score well but always keeps his pointguard duties..... thats more like steve nash or cp3 or deron williams or mark price and so on....

a 25-30 ppg scorer from pointguard position who is not facilitating enough (derrick rose) has always been moved to SG despite the size.... monta ellis, allen iverson and soon... derrick rose... but rose is 6'3".. 1 inch less than Wade... he should be fine....

a pointguards duty is ALWAYS and i mean ALWAYS to set his teammates up and make the correct decisions..... then you can score however much you like..... thats not how Derrick Rose plays...... he brings the ball up and often immediately starts driving or chucking a shot often ignoring the open man or setting up a play for a teammate and so on.......... that is NOT a pointguard.......... that is Monta Ellis, Allen Iverson......... that is Francis/Marbury....... that is DERRICK ROSE.... that is a pure undersized Shooting-Guard...

[D-Wade316]

Rose has no problem scoring against Lebron.

The problem(s) was/were:

1. Thibbs stale offense.
2. Rose being worn down by having to do so much all year.
3. The Heat having time to game plan for #1 and them paying good TEAM defense (I can't take it away from them).
:roll: :roll: :roll:

He averaged 10% in the 4th qtr. :facepalm

[Go Getter]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

He averaged 10% in the 4th qtr. :facepalm
Was it a one-on-one game? does scoring only count in the fourth quarter of one game of one series?

He struggled in the playoffs against other teams too...dude was worn down.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV6svi0EjrI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sNwTmABiDA

[Go Getter]

i agree i have said this since day 1.....

there is no such thing as a scoring point guard........... there is only a point guard who can score well but always keeps his pointguard duties..... thats more like steve nash or cp3 or deron williams or mark price and so on....

a 25-30 ppg scorer from pointguard position who is not facilitating enough (derrick rose) has always been moved to SG despite the size.... monta ellis, allen iverson and soon... derrick rose... but rose is 6'3".. 1 inch less than Wade... he should be fine....

a pointguards duty is ALWAYS and i mean ALWAYS to set his teammates up and make the correct decisions..... then you can score however much you like..... thats not how Derrick Rose plays...... he brings the ball up and often immediately starts driving or chucking a shot often ignoring the open man or setting up a play for a teammate and so on.......... that is NOT a pointguard.......... that is Monta Ellis, Allen Iverson......... that is Francis/Marbury....... that is DERRICK ROSE.... that is a pure undersized Shooting-Guard...
:facepalm

A point guard's job is to win.

Whatever it takes to win is what you do.

62 wins is something you can build on....not gaudy assist numbers.

You guys miss a lot of nuances to the game.

Derrick Rose runs one of the best give-and-go plays in the league with Joakim Noah. He plays off the ball well....he is content with hockey assists, he doesn't have to have to hand in every play.

That's a ball player for you...

[Go Getter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks7ZQULwAxU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTG_U_FJ93Y
omg it looked so DIFFICULT for him to drive right past him:rolleyes:

[Dragonyeuw]

Iverson played the shooting Guard role at 5'11( once he switched). I think Rose, at 6'2, would do just fine.

[Vienceslav]

Rose has no problem scoring against Lebron.

The problem(s) was/were:

1. Thibbs stale offense.
2. Rose being worn down by having to do so much all year.
3. The Heat having time to game plan for #1 and them paying good TEAM defense (I can't take it away from them).
Don

[Go Getter]

Iverson played the shooting Guard role at 5'11( once he switched). I think Rose, at 6'2, would do just fine.
And AI caused a mismatch problem on defense too they had scrub Eric Snow in the backcourt to guard 2's because that's about all he was good for.

[Go Getter]

[QUOTE=Vienceslav]Don

[rodman91]

What we need is a good defensive guard with some shooting ability. Doesn't matter PG or SG.

Also we have to learn how to use Boozer on offense efficiently.

[Vienceslav]

It's not as simple as you make it Rose can drive around Lebron every single time which causes a shift in the defense...we just need better sets.

People take the fourth quarter of one series and not the 3 playoff intensity regular season games which doesn't make sense.
Well on the contrary Miami seemed to shift into another gear as playoffs came.
The same can be said about their regular season games against Boston and the way people said that Boston should win because of their regular season record with MIA(what was it 3-1?too lazy to look it up).
My point is that the Bulls need to perform more consistently against MIA and stop making Allen Iverson out of DRose.

[Go Getter]

Well on the contrary Miami seemed to shift into another gear as playoffs came.
The same can be said about their regular season games against Boston and the way people said that Boston should win because of their regular season record with MIA(what was it 3-1?too lazy to look it up).
My point is that the Bulls need to perform more consistently against MIA and stop making Allen Iverson out of DRose.

It was a poor series but they were the better team. I mean that's what it boiled down to. Dude won 62 games CARRYING us and integrated what, 7 new players?

That's a big adjustment for a PG....not to mention coaching.

Remember when Bron made it to the finals as a young player and got trounced by the veteran Spurs? That's what happened to Rose in a nutshell...with more experience he'll learn to do what all greats vets do which is be fresh for the playoffs.

Ya'll need to stop holding onto these antiquated "Hoosiers" basketball theories...

[Vienceslav]

It was a poor series but they were the better team. I mean that's what it boiled down to. Dude won 62 games CARRYING us and integrated what, 7 new players?

That's a big adjustment for a PG....not to mention coaching.

Remember when Bron made it to the finals as a young player and got trounced by the veteran Spurs? That's what happened to Rose in a nutshell...with more experience he'll learn to do what all greats vets do which is be fresh for the playoffs.

Ya'll need to stop holding onto these antiquated "Hoosiers" basketball theories...
Well he will certainly become more experienced as he goes through these deep playoff series.
He said he

[Yung D-Will]

Depends on how you define a point guard.

[Go Getter]

Depends on how you define a point guard.
The coach of the team defines that....cant think of any opposing arguments.

[nathanjizzle]

the bulls would be an undersized team if they move rose to sg. He would also have to guard bigger players.

[Ikill]

The coach of the team defines that....cant think of any opposing arguments.
Nothing more needs to be said we don't know more than Roses coaches if they say he is a pg than he is pg.

[Ikill]

and its not as simple as a sg scores and pg passes this is not football every single player on the floor should be able score pass and do things without the ball thats how the best teams are built.

[Yung D-Will]

and its not as simple as a sg scores and pg passes this is not football every single player on the floor should be able score pass and do things without the ball thats how the best teams are built.

Then what's the point of having positions.....? Just because every play should be able to do all these things doesn't mean a center shouldn't be significantly better at rebounding than a guard. Just because football roles are more defined doesn't mean there's not a role that each position should fill in basketball.

[Yung D-Will]

The coach of the team defines that....cant think of any opposing arguments.

This. And the media to some extent. Like the whole Tim Duncan thing :lol. Or how some people look at Jefferson as a center even though the only reason he's playing it is because of being on teams with undersized frontcourts.

[oolalaa]

I do NOT agree.

1. WRONG. Tony Parker and Zeke....also, Billups and maybe you could say Archibald.

2. WRONG AGAIN. Dude averages close to 8 assists a game. That is good for a point guard. But if you watch the Bulls you'd see we NEED him to score. It's not his fault, Boozer, Brewer, Korver, Noah and Deng need to step it up offensively.

He would be a VERY undersized shooting guard at 6'2", would take more punishment guarding bigger stronger players, and he just ins't a 2-guard, he's a scoring point that does what his team needs.

If when we get another scorer he will adjust his game accordingly.

But as a franchise and a team we ASKED Rose to shoot more threes and to takeover games. It's not exactly his style.

- Tony parker was the spurs 2nd highest scorer in 07' and was clearly their second option.

- Isiah was barely their leading scorer. The pistons whole ethos on offense was to share the ball and have as many people as possible contribute in scoring.

- Billups & archibald? Seriously? Now you're really stretching.

- He's 6"3, 1 inch smaller than dwade.

- So do honestly believe that he only scored more because the bulls needed him to? By that logic, he will settle back into a playmaking/facilitating role as soon as the bulls have enough around him on offense right? WRONG! he has showed us that he is a 25+ point scorer, a bonafide stud who can and will carry the bulls offense for years to come.

Ultimately, i think its better to score that many points, and in the manner in which he scores those points, as a 2 guard rather than a point guard, that's all.

[Go Getter]

- Tony parker was the spurs 2nd highest scorer in 07' and was clearly their second option.

- Isiah was barely their leading scorer. The pistons whole ethos on offense was to share the ball and have as many people as possible contribute in scoring.

- Billups & archibald? Seriously? Now you're really stretching.

- He's 6"3, 1 inch smaller than dwade.

- So do honestly believe that he only scored more because the bulls needed him to? By that logic, he will settle back into a playmaking role as soon as the bulls have enough around him on offense right? WRONG! he has showed us that he is a 25+ point scorer, a bonafide stud who can and will carry the bulls offense for years to come.

Ultimately, i think its better to score that many points, and in the manner in which he scores those points, as a 2 guard rather than a point guard, that's all.
1.) I watched the games and TP was the man that year. Better than Manu. Better than even Tim (as far as offense).

2.) Every team's ethos is share the ball and use everyone. I remember the Bulls used to try and get everyone shots in the first half. Luc Longley got a lot of easy dunks in the first quarter. But in crunch time you give it to the man. And in crunch time you knew Zeke was the man, the guy who could snap off on you. As for Chauncey he was the same way, "Mr. Big Shot." He was a shoot first PG, still is kinda, maybe balanced is a better term but he has never averaged a high number of assists and he isn't necessarily a creative passer.

3.) Rose is 6'2" brother. Trust and believe me not that NBA hype.

4.) There is no one in the league that could bring the ball up better than Rose that would be feasible to acquire.

Do you know how many easy points we get by just giving the ball to Rose and let him run past people?

Rose scores like a 2-guard a lot, look at his highlights, he is awesome at v-cutting, he passes the ball on the break a goodly number of times so he can fly ahead of the pack and finish for alleys and easy scores, and now he's even started to pull the trigger on spot up 3's.

Speaking of three's he didn't WANT to shoot them but the team ASKED him. He was perfectly fine NOT taking them and visibly uncomfortable with the shot for awhile.

We're just waiting for the right personnel and then Rose will blossom (damn what a horrible pun), just wait...he's only 23.

[MeLO MvP 15]

Positions are somewhat over-rated. Just because he's a scorer doesn't mean he shouldn't be a PG. I honestly think it matters on his team because if he was on a team with another good PG he'd be able to spend a lot of times covering SGs but his offensive game would be almost identical. If you watch Wade or Kobe play, they bring the ball up more than their PGs... it would be the same with Rose.

[Pointguard]

It was a poor series but they were the better team. I mean that's what it boiled down to. Dude won 62 games CARRYING us and integrated what, 7 new players?

That's a big adjustment for a PG....not to mention coaching.

Remember when Bron made it to the finals as a young player and got trounced by the veteran Spurs? That's what happened to Rose in a nutshell...with more experience he'll learn to do what all greats vets do which is be fresh for the playoffs.

Ya'll need to stop holding onto these antiquated "Hoosiers" basketball theories...

And thru the injuries. Leadership has it's taxation on energy as well.

Welcome back, G Get. Rose was spent, and mentally spent because he had to ad-lib a lot as well. Guarding Wade, not knowing how to pace himself deep into the playoffs, compensating for injured players all year, playing thru the injury, guys (Booze) totally busting up plays, defensive speed of Miami as a team, high number of close games throughout the playoffs, teams played him physically and he wouldn't always get the call... .

[Go Getter]

And thru the injuries. Leadership has it's taxation on energy as well.

Welcome back, G Get. Rose was spent, and mentally spent because he had to ad-lib a lot as well. Guarding Wade, not knowing how to pace himself deep into the playoffs, compensating for injured players all year, playing thru the injury, guys (Booze) totally busting up plays, defensive speed of Miami as a team, high number of close games throughout the playoffs, teams played him physically and he wouldn't always get the call... .


People act like we don't realize it's not wise to rest your scoring load on an "NBA midget." Like we can't see it's harder and more taxing to score, especially at the rim, the shorter you are. That it's hard for scoring PGs to win it all...

But it is possible....even more possible with a balance in scoring. And let's be real, Bogans and Brewer is not making any 2's stomach turn with anxiety.

Deng is a good scorer, just not a good improviser.

We really need(ed) Booz to step the **** up. We need to get another 2 in here pronto. Just let him be able to guard someone, hit an open shot, and handle a bit we will be a match for any team I think.

[ballup]

This. And the media to some extent. Like the whole Tim Duncan thing :lol. Or how some people look at Jefferson as a center even though the only reason he's playing it is because of being on teams with undersized frontcourts.
The reason why he was used as a center is because the Wolves didn't have any other player they can confidently use as the starting center. When the Wolves got Ryan Hollins and Darko, Jefferson had his minutes split between the 4 and the 5 spots.

[Kyle_korver]

Derrick Rose needs to move to shooting guard as soon as this pathetic lockout is over!

I think this for a couple of reasons...

1. It's incredibly hard to win a championship with a slashing point guard who is also your main scorer. In fact, it's so hard that no team in history has done it (A.I came closest in 01').

2. His skills are more suited to the 2 guard position. He is a good playmaker but not a great one and is always looking to attack the rim.

Although he would be a slightly undersized shooting guard, he has more than enough athletic ability to make up for it and he wouldn't be burdened with the task of running an offense.

Does anyone else agree with me?


I completely agree.. Anyone notice that tyreke evans is a sg now??.. That's where Derrick rose should be .. Why should he be the pg?..the best part to his game is scoring .. N no matter what .. No nba teams NEEDS a pg to take more than 30 fga n I seen Derrick do it alot like he was Kobe or something .. If Derrick rose Is a pure pg why shouldn't lebron be.. He's the guy running plays n making the tempo N was a pg his rookie year.. The nba position labels always been stupid to me.. Derrick is a sg .. Plan n simple

[Go Getter]

I completely agree.. Anyone notice that tyreke evans is a sg now??.. That's where Derrick rose should be .. Why should he be the pg?..the best part to his game is scoring .. N no matter what .. No nba teams NEEDS a pg to take more than 30 fga n I seen Derrick do it alot like he was Kobe or something .. If Derrick rose Is a pure pg why shouldn't lebron be.. He's the guy running plays n making the tempo N was a pg his rookie year.. The nba position labels always been stupid to me.. Derrick is a sg .. Plan n simple


Derrick bring the ball up the court, initiates the offense, is the leader of the team, and Thibs says, "he's our point guard."

You have no argument other than "I dislike his style as a PG."

[ZaaaaaH]

oolalaa = retard :D

[ZaaaaaH]

I completely agree.. Anyone notice that tyreke evans is a sg now??.. That's where Derrick rose should be .. Why should he be the pg?..the best part to his game is scoring .. N no matter what .. No nba teams NEEDS a pg to take more than 30 fga n I seen Derrick do it alot like he was Kobe or something .. If Derrick rose Is a pure pg why shouldn't lebron be.. He's the guy running plays n making the tempo N was a pg his rookie year.. The nba position labels always been stupid to me.. Derrick is a sg .. Plan n simple and Im stupid


Derrick Rose is a Combo Guard and more Towards a Point Guard so what does that mean

DERRICK ROSE = POINT GUARD .

[ZenMaster]

Then what's the point of having positions.....? Just because every play should be able to do all these things doesn't mean a center shouldn't be significantly better at rebounding than a guard. Just because football roles are more defined doesn't mean there's not a role that each position should fill in basketball.


A lot of teams don't use these positions in the classical sense anymore, just go by numbers instead.

Say you play spread pick'nroll a lot with 3 guys along the 3pt line as shooters. 2 weak or 2 strong side. You'd want to change the positions in which the players set up switching between left and right corner, and left and right slot so the defensive players has to do the different rotations. A sg and a sf would have the exact same responsibilities, so why call them something that would seem they do different things?

On my team we have a "4" position and it's being the trailer in a two guard front. Even though I say guard, we can use all players in this position, usually we use a 2nd big here or a 2nd guard, what we can do from the position obv changes depending on who's in it, but it's still the 4 position.

If we don't use numbers we define our positions as guards, wings and bigs.

A good coach won't let his players be defined by position, but his positions defined by his players i guess..

[Kyle_korver]

Derrick Rose is a Combo Guard and more Towards a Point Guard so what does that mean

DERRICK ROSE = POINT GUARD .

Derrick rose averaged more fga than Kevin Durant!!?? What other pg does that!!!??.. The scoring leader in the nba!.. Get real

[ihatetimthomas]

What he does need is a bigger shooting guard who can handle the rock and defend. Someone like Eric Snow. Rose is basically playing AI's role in Phili. He needs another guard alongside him who can take over some pg duties from time to time. It would be ideal for this guard to have a jumper as well. Easier said than done, but Rose can still be a scoring pg and win, as long as he gets the right partner in the backcourt.

[Go Getter]

What he does need is a bigger shooting guard who can handle the rock and defend. Someone like Eric Snow. Rose is basically playing AI's role in Phili. He needs another guard alongside him who can take over some pg duties from time to time. It would be ideal for this guard to have a jumper as well. Easier said than done, but Rose can still be a scoring pg and win, as long as he gets the right partner in the backcourt.
Eric Snow was barely 6'3" though.....

[bingo123]

A player who avereges ~20 fga is not PG for me personaly. But in todays NBA there arent many true star PGs left. Anybody that can score wants to score. For me guys like Rose, Westbrook,... are just guards, not PGs or SGs.

[ZaaaaaH]

Derrick rose averaged more fga than Kevin Durant!!?? What other pg does that!!!??.. The scoring leader in the nba!.. Get real


Does FGA show what position you play now? :lol

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Why is it so hard for people to understand that Derrick Rose is a Point Guard that scores a lot? Are PG's not allowed to be scorers anymore? It isn't about just getting Assists. Derek Fisher has never gotten lots of Assists. Is he not a PG?

Who gives a shit if he takes 20 FGA per game? What's he supposed to do? Just pass the ball all day to Deng and Boozer hoping they average 20+ a game? He has to score a lot on his team. His best ability is scoring. He does that in addition to being a facilitator on his team.

[Legends66NBA7]

Why is it so hard for people to understand that Derrick Rose is a Point Guard that scores a lot? Are PG's not allowed to be scorers anymore? It isn't about just getting Assists. Derek Fisher has never gotten lots of Assists. Is he not a PG?

Who gives a shit if he takes 20 FGA per game? What's he supposed to do? Just pass the ball all day to Deng and Boozer hoping they average 20+ a game? He has to score a lot on his team. His best ability is scoring. He does that in addition to being a facilitator on his team.

I think it's just a situation that if he is a pass first point guard (though yes, that's not his nature), it would make life easier for him and the team. Derek Fisher has also spent a lot of his career in triangle system man, it's hard to get assists in that system because of how much you have to move the ball around. Plus he has been surrounded by a lot of great talent during his time.

I think it's problem if anyone is taking that many shots and not converting a lot of those attempts, that's the problem. I think there should a balance between him and his teammates. That's how it should always be really. Just like when they play defense.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

I think it's just a situation that if he is a pass first point guard (though yes, that's not his nature), it would make life easier for him and the team.

How so? Have Boozer or Deng ever been a #1 option who can carry the scoring load? It isn't about just passing. If he's a good scorer and the best at it on his team, why not do it? I mean, they won 62 games and got to the ECF and very well could have won (those games were pretty close outside of the blowout in Game 1). The way they play now seems to work well to me.


Derek Fisher has also spent a lot of his career in triangle system man, it's hard to get assists in that system because of how much you have to move the ball around. Plus he has been surrounded by a lot of great talent during his time.

I'm glad you brought that up. I wanted you to. That leads to another point. Players' roles are defined by personnel, system and jobs within that system, not necessarily their position on paper, like another poster was saying earlier. Chicago doesn't have the offensive firepower or have another player who can draw major defensive attention like Rose. If he doesn't pose the threat to drop 25-30 points in a game, Chicago is significantly worse offensively.


I think it's problem if anyone is taking that many shots and not converting a lot of those attempts, that's the problem. I think there should a balance between him and his teammates. That's how it should always be really. Just like when they play defense.

That's the case with any player though, not just a point guard. If you're your team's best scorer you are going to take more shots. Kobe takes more shots than Gasol or anyone else. LeBron took more shots than Mo Williams. Jordan took more shots than Pippen and Iverson took more shots than anyone else on his team. It's what they are supposed to do.

And who's to say his teammates would convert those shots if given more? Does giving Boozer 17 shots a game instead of 14 automatically mean he is going to score more and maintain or improve efficiency? No. Besides, it isn't like Rose is horribly inefficient anyway. He shot 45% last season, which is not really bad for a perimeter player and understandable due to his improved 3 ball and the injuries his team faced all season long.

[Go Getter]

Some of these guys never played ball.

In HS (not trying to brag) but sometimes the coach and my teammates would just tell me to shoot the ball when I wanted to.

After 20-24 points in a HS game it started to look and feel like I was hogging the ball. It feels uncomfortable as a point guard yes, but Rose is playing in the pros, damn your feelings we trying to get wins.

This is not a developmental league. We are not on camera trying to prove that fundamental basketball is the best way to go. We not trying to get everyone touches if it's not working we are going to get this dub. They feed their families off this (coaches too).

[Go Getter]

What kills me is random people think they know more than Paxson and Thibbs...two people that know a lot about being a PG.

[Go Getter]

A player who avereges ~20 fga is not PG for me personaly. But in todays NBA there arent many true star PGs left. Anybody that can score wants to score. For me guys like Rose, Westbrook,... are just guards, not PGs or SGs.


That's because you don't know shit about basketball to be honest.

[Legends66NBA7]

How so? Have Boozer or Deng ever been a #1 option who can carry the scoring load? It isn't about just passing. If he's a good scorer and the best at it on his team, why not do it?

Well Boozer was in Utah. Deng just isn't good enough to create his own shot. I'm not saying it's all about passing, but Rose can share the load to take pressure of him. I think there's enough talent on the team (though need more of an offensive player @ the SG position) to get more scoring out of people. The Bulls are a young team, they will get better at this.


I mean, they won 62 games and got to the ECF and very well could have won (those games were pretty close outside of the blowout in Game 1). The way they play now seems to work well to me.


Yes, but I guarantee more teams (teams that are better defensively) will try and copy that Miami Heat strategy on Rose. I think there are ways they can get more out of their offense to try and counter attack, so that they won't get into that situation of Rose struggling in the 4th.


I'm glad you brought that up. I wanted you to. That leads to another point. Players' roles are defined by personnel, system and jobs within that system, not necessarily their position on paper, like another poster was saying earlier. Chicago doesn't have the offensive firepower or have another player who can draw major defensive attention like Rose. If he doesn't pose the threat to drop 25-30 points in a game, Chicago is significantly worse offensively.

You are spot on here. I still do think the Bulls can get some offensive talent elsewhere if there is still room in their salary cap. Who knows if they can groom a guy like Taj Gibson or have a healthy Boozer for the season. I think Chicago will get better offensively after a full year together. They were ranked 11th in offense, but yes Rose did have a big factor play in it, obviously.



That's the case with any player though, not just a point guard. If you're your team's best scorer you are going to take more shots. Kobe takes more shots than Gasol or anyone else. LeBron took more shots than Mo Williams. Jordan took more shots than Pippen and Iverson took more shots than anyone else on his team. It's what they are supposed to do.

Though yes they won 62 games last season, you have to really factor in their defense too. Also like I said, that's not the best recipe to win, Kobe had more teammates converting better on his team, LeBron converts better from the field, Jordan does too, where as Iverson doesn't convert well at all, he had better defense complimentary parts to help him in that area. They are supposed to do all that, but it's not always the recipe of winning unless you have more weapons on your team on both sides of the floor.


And who's to say his teammates would convert those shots if given more? Does giving Boozer 17 shots a game instead of 14 automatically mean he is going to score more and maintain or improve efficiency? No. Besides, it isn't like Rose is horribly inefficient anyway. He shot 45% last season, which is not really bad for a perimeter player and understandable due to his improved 3 ball and the injuries his team faced all season long.

Well Boozer hit over 51% of his 14 shots, Deng hit 46% of his 14 shots, Noah 52.5% of 8 shots (I know he isn't a great shooter), etc...

Boozer would have a stronger chance of making more shots because he's a post player, but yeah you have a point, it doesn't necessarily mean he will make it more regularly. Rose is around the average, but he's also the MVP right ? He's not supposed to be just some "perimeter player".

That's just me though, when you are the MVP and the main weapon, I would expect a little more better efficiency that that.

[Go Getter]

People act like Rose wasn't playing any defense I remember a vast improvement in defense and a few:eek: blocks on high flying PF's & all-star PG's...

[Go Getter]

One series doesn't predicate a career. Rose has about the same career shooting percentage as Dirk Nowitzki. He damn near shot 50% as a rookie.

It's logical that with him becoming more comfortable with the three, gaining more experience, and some help on offense so he doesn't have to shoot as much, that his shooting percentage will only get better.

Dude took more shots than he ever took, played more games than he every played in a year (with the USA team and the season and playoffs), and handled more responsibility than many 23 year-olds ever have in life.

He was understandable gassed and facing Lebron James and a Heat team that basically slept walked and took games off all season to be fresh for the Finals that they knew they'd win.

The Bulls overachieved and pushed their way into the playoffs trying to glean as many wins as possible. Which is cool they wanted Rose to get MVP, they wanted to win the EC and make a statement...in the back of everyone's head they knew we weren't the best team in the NBA, but why not see how far we can go right?

When we have another 2 pieces in place I feel like we can take any team.

[ihatetimthomas]

Eric Snow was barely 6'3" though.....

He was able to defend opposing shooting guards though. My point still remains Rose needs someone next to him like Snow. A player who made smart decisions, handled the ball, defended opposing shooting guards. A guy who can be a pg if he needs to. Bulls do not have anyone like that at all currently.

[SCdac]

Rose sure has become underrated, for somebody who's young and probably on an upward curve. 7.7 assist a game and 20 games of 10+ assists in the RS... how many shooting guards in the league did that?

[Go Getter]

He was able to defend opposing shooting guards though. My point still remains Rose needs someone next to him like Snow. A player who made smart decisions, handled the ball, defended opposing shooting guards. A guy who can be a pg if he needs to. Bulls do not have anyone like that at all currently.
I agree but I'd rather have a guy a bit taller that could hit jumpshots.

[bingo123]

That's because you don't know shit about basketball to be honest.

Two words in my post: true star PGs. I am not saying that Rose plays the wrong way (obviously he and his team benefits from his scoring) but he is not true PG like lets say Nash and Kidd, thats all.

[Kevin_Gamble]

Derrick Rose needs to move to shooting guard as soon as this pathetic lockout is over!

I think this for a couple of reasons...

1. It's incredibly hard to win a championship with a slashing point guard who is also your main scorer. In fact, it's so hard that no team in history has done it (A.I came closest in 01').

2. His skills are more suited to the 2 guard position. He is a good playmaker but not a great one and is always looking to attack the rim.

Although he would be a slightly undersized shooting guard, he has more than enough athletic ability to make up for it and he wouldn't be burdened with the task of running an offense.

Does anyone else agree with me?

Why slashing? He's a penetrate and kick guy, like Marbury or KJ. If he can master the pick and roll, there's no reason why his style of play would prevent him from being a great PG, and running the offense is not a burden to him.

[Go Getter]

Two words in my post: true star PGs. I am not saying that Rose plays the wrong way (obviously he and his team benefits from his scoring) but he is not true PG like lets say Nash and Kidd, thats all.


He plays Point Guard (remember, the COACH says who the PG of the team is not the fans), averages 8 assists, and just won an MVP.

That is a true star PG.

[Yung D-Will]

He plays Point Guard (remember, the COACH says who the PG of the team is not the fans), averages 8 assists, and just won an MVP.

That is a true star PG.

But at the end of the day fans are gonna percive what position a player is based on what they belive that position is supposed to be played liked.

Just like how Shaqattack considers Duncan a center
Just like how some people claim Curry is just an undersized sg
A lot of people still put put Amare as a pf even though now he's playing the C

Ext.

I mean a lot of people list Oscar as an sg
And a lot of people question whether Magic was a pg considering a lot of times he wasn't even guarding his postion ext.

Such is life. At the end of the day if you rank Rose as a shooting guard he's still top 3. If you rank him as a pg he's top 1-3 depending on what you value.

[chips93]

to those saying that boozer and deng need to take more shots, and rose needs to take fewer, rose as it stands, being the main point of attention for the opposing defense has a high TS% than both of them. and in almost every circumstance, when you increase the number of possessions a player takes, his efficeincy goes down. (its pretty logical, say a player takes 10 shots, they are presumably the ten best opportunities to shot he gets, so if he takes a few more shots, they will be worse shots than he was originally taking, so his efficeincy goes down.)

so if rose takes fewer shots, the defense pays less attention to him and more to deng and boozer, so if you have deng and boozer take a few more shots per game, those shots would be even worse than the shots that they are currently taking, and the bulls offense actually gets worse. ideally korver, who has a higher TS% than all three players, would force things a little bit more, and take a few more shots.

this is all very stat heavy analysis of course, but it is backed up by watching the bulls play on offense.

(its worth mentioning that deng was more efficeint in the playoffs than rose, but the playoffs are a smaller sample size of games)

[Go Getter]

PG is an easy position to define in comparison to the PF/C debate.

-Brings the ball up.
-Initiates the offense.
-Calls the plays/floor general.

Rose does all of those.

Really, there is no debate on this in my mind. People still hold onto these antiquated ideas of what a PG should be...

Mind you, Rose averaged 8 assists on an offensively anemic team which is pretty good.

[chips93]

But at the end of the day fans are gonna percive what position a player is based on what they belive that position is supposed to be played liked.

Just like how Shaqattack considers Duncan a center
Just like how some people claim Curry is just an undersized sg
A lot of people still put put Amare as a pf even though now he's playing the C

Ext.

I mean a lot of people list Oscar as an sg
And a lot of people question whether Magic was a pg considering a lot of times he wasn't even guarding his postion ext.

Such is life. At the end of the day if you rank Rose as a shooting guard he's still top 3. If you rank him as a pg he's top 1-3 depending on what you value.

really, positions arent as descriptive as roles. i think if you describe a player by his role, and what kind of player he is capable of defending, you would get a much better idea of what kind of player they are.

[chips93]

PG is an easy position to define in comparison to the PF/C debate.

-Brings the ball up.
-Initiates the offense.
-Calls the plays/floor general.




so was mo williams a pg when bron was doing all of those things in cleveland?

positions are close to obselete, roles are far more important. thats why wade and bron dont play well together. they play different positions, but play very similar roles.

[Yung D-Will]

PG is an easy position to define in comparison to the PF/C debate.

-Brings the ball up.
-Initiates the offense.
-Calls the plays/floor general.

Rose does all of those.

Really, there is no debate on this in my mind. People still hold onto these antiquated ideas of what a PG should be...

Mind you, Rose averaged 8 assists on an offensively anemic team which is pretty good.

There's no debate in your mind because you feel the role of a pg is the three things you listed.

Other people might think differnt of what exactly defines a pg. That's my point. Just like people think differntly of what defines a Pf/C/SG/SF ext

[ballup]

Rose has point guard skills and he can definitely go the Wade route and be an undersized sg. He has the athleticism to make up for his lack of height. He needs someone to be more of a consistent offensive threat along with being a decent facilitator. Also, Thibs need a better offensive assistant coach. He's not great at making offensive plays from what I remember.

so was mo williams a pg when bron was doing all of those things in cleveland?

positions are close to obselete, roles are far more important. thats why wade and bron dont play well together. they play different positions, but play very similar roles.
They also have similar styles of play, which actually is the reason why they don't play as well together. The 2 and the 3 have been meshed together as the main scorers.

[Go Getter]

There's no debate in your mind because you feel the role of a pg is the three things you listed.

Other people might think differnt of what exactly defines a pg. That's my point. Just like people think differntly of what defines a Pf/C/SG/SF ext
I forgot to include who you guard and of course what the coach designates the player as.

People's only argument against Rose is that he shoots too much to be a PG and I think that's absurd.

[Yung D-Will]

I forgot to include who you guard and of course what the coach designates the player as.

People's only argument against Rose is that he shoots too much to be a PG and I think that's absurd.

As I said if a person thinks that a there's a certain limit on the numbers of fg attempts you should take to be considered a pg that's that's persons perspectice I don't really care as long as they stay consistent.

I personally consider him a pg.

But I never understood why people harp so much about positions. I remember having a big argument with Shaqattack as to why I don't think whether Duncan's a pf or c makes any differnce because whether you switch their positions it doesn't make them any less of a player; it's not like if I label Luke Walton, to a differnt position based on what I think a small forward is it gonna make him any less sucky I just don't think it's that big of a deal.

Hell I remember early in D-Will's career I used to just call him a combo-guard and leave it at that since he played off the ball a lot because of Sloan

[Pointguard]

As I said if a person thinks that a there's a certain limit on the numbers of fg attempts you should take to be considered a pg that's that's persons perspectice I don't really care as long as they stay consistent.

I personally consider him a pg.

But I never understood why people harp so much about positions. I remember having a big argument with Shaqattack as to why I don't think whether Duncan's a pf or c makes any differnce because whether you switch their positions it doesn't make them any less of a player; it's not like if I label Luke Walton, to a differnt position based on what I think a small forward is it gonna make him any less sucky I just don't think it's that big of a deal.

Hell I remember early in D-Will's career I used to just call him a combo-guard and leave it at that since he played off the ball a lot because of Sloan

That was major weird. Sloan said he was going to move him to shooting guard. I wasn't getting it at all. Obviously it could be something we didn't see and he hasn't made his mark yet in New Jersey either. But from the outside, he looks like he could be one of the best of his time if he just stays healthy.

The point is a leadership position and the primary decision maker on the team. You move a guy off of the point position he's really a fish out of water. Of all of the positions its something that a star player would have a problem with. AI was indeed a penetrating point more so than a distributing point. He like, Chauncey or Tony Parker would feel very awkward moving off of the ball. Coaches know it, teammates know it. Fans that play know it. The point is the captain of the ship... the other roles won't work. Fans, yeah you right, they will see it their way.

[Smoke117]

i agree i have said this since day 1.....

there is no such thing as a scoring point guard........... there is only a point guard who can score well but always keeps his pointguard duties..... thats more like steve nash or cp3 or deron williams or mark price and so on....

a 25-30 ppg scorer from pointguard position who is not facilitating enough (derrick rose) has always been moved to SG despite the size.... monta ellis, allen iverson and soon... derrick rose... but rose is 6'3".. 1 inch less than Wade... he should be fine....

a pointguards duty is ALWAYS and i mean ALWAYS to set his teammates up and make the correct decisions..... then you can score however much you like..... thats not how Derrick Rose plays...... he brings the ball up and often immediately starts driving or chucking a shot often ignoring the open man or setting up a play for a teammate and so on.......... that is NOT a pointguard.......... that is Monta Ellis, Allen Iverson......... that is Francis/Marbury....... that is DERRICK ROSE.... that is a pure undersized Shooting-Guard...

It's amazing how Pauk actually says things that aren't completely idiotic every once in awhile.

[Ikill]

That was major weird. Sloan said he was going to move him to shooting guard. I wasn't getting it at all. Obviously it could be something we didn't see and he hasn't made his mark yet in New Jersey either. But from the outside, he looks like he could be one of the best of his time if he just stays healthy.

The point is a leadership position and the primary decision maker on the team. You move a guy off of the point position he's really a fish out of water. Of all of the positions its something that a star player would have a problem with. AI was indeed a penetrating point more so than a distributing point. He like, Chauncey or Tony Parker would feel very awkward moving off of the ball. Coaches know it, teammates know it. Fans that play know it. The point is the captain of the ship... the other roles won't work. Fans, yeah you right, they will see it their way.
AI was really good off the ball tho

[Kellogs4toniee]

He can absolutely carry this team as a scoring point guard. Billups, Parker, Isiah Thomas, Gary Payton, they have all had tremendous success as point guards who were there crunch time scorers and could easily get 20+ a year if they tried to.

I do though agree that the percentage of our offense that he is currently carrying is not a healthy one and will not churn out a championship in the next few years given the current amount of elite and growing teams in the East. This is already known tho... it's already pretty given that the Bulls need another scorer who can create his own shot.