Isiah Thomas vs Steve Nash - Who was the better player?

[Duncan21formvp]

Who was the better player? Who would you rather have lead your team?

[Legends66NBA7]

Better player: Isiah Thomas.

Who you want to lead your team ? Depends on what your team system is. Can't go wrong with either one.

You have take into account they played in different era's and face different defenses and rules too.

[DevilsAssassin]

Steve Nash for both

[chips93]

Better player: Isiah Thomas.

Who you want to lead your team ? Depends on what your team system is. Can't go wrong with either one.

You have take into account they played in different era's and face different defenses and rules too.

this

isiah is worse in playmaking, but better on defense and scoring.

[e-LIMON-ators]

Isiah Thomas on both counts...and honestly it isn't close. Give me the proven HOF who has lead his team to back to back championships in his prime.

[D.J.]

Who was the better player?


Isiah. 21/11 on 46-47% at his statistical peak. Better competitor, better defender.



Who would you rather have lead your team?


Isiah. Better at taking over games and don't forget his ankle injury in '88.

[Kurosawa0]

Isiah Thomas, no question. I love Nash, but Isiah would've gotten at least one of the Suns teams to the Finals.

[Harison]

Isiah. As a leader, scorer, defender, etc. He played against the hardest competition, and got it done twice, as the main man. Nash played against weaker competition, and while he had pretty good teams, they got nowhere.

I would pick Nash if I have a stacked team and want a superior floor general.

[Go Getter]

Give me Zeke.

[DaPerceive]

Isiah Thomas, no question. I love Nash, but Isiah would've gotten at least one of the Suns teams to the Finals.
lol, yeah because Nash was a reason why the Suns failed to get in the Finals.

[vinsanity2756]

definitely isiah over nash. nash's offensive game is great, but not quite so good on the defensive end of the floor.

[D.J.]

lol, yeah because Nash was a reason why the Suns failed to get in the Finals.


He most certainly was a reason.


2005
D'Antoni puts Nash on Parker with no weak side help. Games 1 and 2, Parker lights up Nash for 29/7/2/2 on 13/22 shooting and 24/5/3 on 12/20 shooting. D'Antoni finally realizes in game 3 that Nash can't guard Parker alone and gives him the weak side help, but Duncan goes off for 33/15 with 3 blocks, 15/16 with 2 blocks, and 31/15 with 3 blocks.

2006
Nash goes off for 27/16 in a game 1 win. Game 2, Terry drops 18 on him followed by 19 the next game. Suns win game 4 and in game 5, Terry puts up 14/9. Game 6 with the Suns leading in the 4th, Terry drops 19. In 3 of the 4 losses, Nash allowed Terry to put up 18, 19, and 19.


So yes, his inability to hold down Tony Parker and Jason Terry(neither were elite offensive players) is what cost them.

[SunsCaptain]

He most certainly was a reason.


2005
D'Antoni puts Nash on Parker with no weak side help. Games 1 and 2, Parker lights up Nash for 29/7/2/2 on 13/22 shooting and 24/5/3 on 12/20 shooting. D'Antoni finally realizes in game 3 that Nash can't guard Parker alone and gives him the weak side help, but Duncan goes off for 33/15 with 3 blocks, 15/16 with 2 blocks, and 31/15 with 3 blocks.

2006
Nash goes off for 27/16 in a game 1 win. Game 2, Terry drops 18 on him followed by 19 the next game. Suns win game 4 and in game 5, Terry puts up 14/9. Game 6 with the Suns leading in the 4th, Terry drops 19. In 3 of the 4 losses, Nash allowed Terry to put up 18, 19, and 19.


So yes, his inability to hold down Tony Parker and Jason Terry(neither were elite offensive players) is what cost them.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/phoenix-suns/players/steve-nash/profile/05/23/338/8


http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/phoenix-suns/players/steve-nash/profile/06/23/337/8

:roll: :roll: :roll:
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:rolleyes:




Bahaha

[Stuckey]

first i was like :eek: then i was like :facepalm

i aint even mad

zeke

[D.J.]

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/phoenix-suns/players/steve-nash/profile/05/23/338/8


http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/phoenix-suns/players/steve-nash/profile/06/23/337/8

:roll: :roll: :roll:
:lol
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:rolleyes:




Bahaha


Did you read anything I wrote? Of course not. You're a Suns fan, so you'll boost Nash at any cost. Take it from a neutral party that watched both series. Nash singlehandedly guarded Tony Parker in games 1 and 2. End result, Parker shit on him. He gets backup coverage in games 3, 4, and 5. Parker is contained, but the extra coverage allowed Duncan to have more of an impact than he did in games 1 and 2.

Then he allows Terry to put up 18, 19, and 19 in 3 of 4 Phoenix's losses. You obviously did not watch the games very closely. Nash's efficient offense was overrided by his inability to contain 2 players that aren't exactly elite and versatile offensive players. Hell, his inability to singlehandedly guard Tony Parker cost the Suns games 1 and 2. They only lost by 7 and 3.

[SunsCaptain]

Did you read anything I wrote? Of course not. You're a Suns fan, so you'll boost Nash at any cost. Take it from a neutral party that watched both series. Nash singlehandedly guarded Tony Parker in games 1 and 2. End result, Parker shit on him. He gets backup coverage in games 3, 4, and 5. Parker is contained, but the extra coverage allowed Duncan to have more of an impact than he did in games 1 and 2.

Then he allows Terry to put up 18, 19, and 19 in 3 of 4 Phoenix's losses. You obviously did not watch the games very closely. Nash's efficient offense was overrided by his inability to contain 2 players that aren't exactly elite and versatile offensive players. Hell, his inability to singlehandedly guard Tony Parker cost the Suns games 1 and 2. They only lost by 7 and 3.

I guess you dont understand that Steve Nash took a BIGGER SHIT. I mean he shit all over them. He was covering them in feces. As my stats will prove, Nash took the bigger shit.

[Fatal9]

lol at some of this bullshit.

omgomgomg...Jason Terry scored 18 points on Steve Nash on 6/15 shooting, and then 19 points on 9/20 shooting and then 14 points on 6/13 shooting (Suns series was his worst of the playoff run)...Nash reason for those losses !! derp derp Isiah >>> Nash herp

:facepalm

[D.J.]

I guess you dont understand that Steve Nash took a BIGGER SHIT. I mean he shit all over them. He was covering them in feces. As my stats will prove, Nash took the bigger shit.


Nash got shit on more than he shit on others. Anyone that watched the games saw that Nash's lack of D overshadowed any offensive input. These weren't blowout games. These were close games the Suns were losing. Maybe if your boy was capable of guarding Tony f*cking Parker 1 on 1, you would have at least made the Finals.

[SunsCaptain]

Nash got shit on more than he shit on others. Anyone that watched the games saw that Nash's lack of D overshadowed any offensive input. These weren't blowout games. These were close games the Suns were losing. Maybe if your boy was capable of guarding Tony f*cking Parker 1 on 1, you would have at least made the Finals.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/phoenix-suns/players/steve-nash/profile/05/23/338/8


http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/phoenix-suns/players/steve-nash/profile/06/23/337/8

:roll: :roll: :roll:
:lol
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:rolleyes:




Bahaha he keeps coming back for more.... :hammerhead:

I guess you dont understand that Steve Nash took a BIGGER SHIT. I mean he shit all over them. He was covering them in feces. As my stats will prove, Nash took the bigger shit.

[D.J.]

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/phoenix-suns/players/steve-nash/profile/05/23/338/8


http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/phoenix-suns/players/steve-nash/profile/06/23/337/8

:roll: :roll: :roll:
:lol
:roll: :roll: :roll:
:rolleyes:




Bahaha he keeps coming back for more.... :hammerhead:

I guess you dont understand that Steve Nash took a BIGGER SHIT. I mean he shit all over them. He was covering them in feces. As my stats will prove, Nash took the bigger shit.


The fact you're repeating yourself shows you have nothing else to add. And as real life shows, Nash got shit on by an average PG. Keep coming back for more. You trolls have no logic anyway.

[Fatal9]

Nash got shit on more than he shit on others. Anyone that watched the games saw that Nash's lack of D overshadowed any offensive input. These weren't blowout games. These were close games the Suns were losing. Maybe if your boy was capable of guarding Tony f*cking Parker 1 on 1, you would have at least made the Finals.
This is such revisionist history, which is no surprise from Nash haters. I might actually make a video of those two series.

Should I sit here and go over all the games where Isiah got shitted on and he played no where near as well as Nash has offensively? Do you want me to show you Sam Vincent giving Isiah 27 points in a half? of a playoff game they lost but were favored to win no less? or Doc Rivers outscoring him 34-5 in a playoff game? or footage of Dumars taking guys for Isiah if he's having trouble guarding them? fukk off with your cherry picking and you didn't even cherry pick well...those guys didn't even that great of a playoff series against Nash. You're citing games where Terry is shooting 6/15 as examples for why the Suns lost because of Nash's defense...credibility out the window right there.

[Rooster]

Zeke over Nash anytime anyday. He does it at both ends and he has 2 rings to proved it. Nash is the better shooter and playmaker but Isiah bring more intangibles with his defense and toughness. Isiah Thomas is very underrated nowadays because he freezes out Jordan and burned a lot of bridges in his career.

[SunsCaptain]

The fact you're repeating yourself shows you have nothing else to add. And as real life shows, Nash got shit on by an average PG. Keep coming back for more. You trolls have no logic anyway.

The fact that I have stats proving Nash takes HUGE DUMPS on everyone including the players you mentioned and you keep providing nothing but talking about poop is hilarious to me...

Not to mention you stole my come back for more line.... :cry:

But anyways lets keep talking about how much fecal matter Nash drops. Because when he unloads...HE DROPS LOADS...and you best get out the way or get shit on like Parker and Terry...

This guy....:facepalm

:violin:

[D.J.]

This is such revisionist history, which is no surprise from Nash haters. I might actually make a video of those two series.

Should I sit here and go over all the games where Isiah got shitted on and he played no where near as well as Nash has offensively? Do you want me to show you Sam Vincent giving Isiah 27 points in a half? of a playoff game they lost but were favored to win no less? or footage of Dumars taking guys for Isiah if he's having trouble guarding them? fukk off with your cherry picking and you didn't even cherry pick well...those guys didn't even that great of a playoff series against Nash. You're citing games where Terry is shooting 6/15 as examples for why the Suns lost because of Nash's defense...credibility out the window right there.


I don't hate Nash. I call it as I see it. Isiah won 2 rings and made the Finals 3 times. That's 2 more rings and 3 more Finals appearances than Steve. Isiah didn't have a lack of defense weakness that cost the Pistons games.

My credibility is just fine. There's a reason Isiah won 2 titles as the alpha dog and Steve Nash until this year was the only MVP winner to never make the Finals.

[D.J.]

The fact that I have stats proving Nash takes HUGE DUMPS on everyone including the players you mentioned and you keep providing nothing but talking about poop is hilarious to me...


And he got shit on even worse. Your stats mean nothing. I watched the games, unlike you.



But anyways lets keep talking about how much fecal matter Nash drops. Because when he unloads...HE DROPS LOADS...and you best get out the way or get shit on like Parker and Terry...


He drops so much fecal matter he can't even make the Finals. This guy...:facepalm

[bdreason]

Isiah Thomas.



Next question.

[G.O.A.T]

Isiah because he played in a system that made him change his style, sacrifice stats and won two titles while Nash played in a system built around his strengths and couldn't even get to the finals. To me this one is amazingly easy and there is no need to look at any stats.

[RRR3]

@ DJ,
Jason Terry's career PPG is 16.2. He has scored more than 18 points per game in 3 seperate seasons (the most reason being 2008-09). Per 36 minutes, he has scored 18 or more points 5 times. His career playoff PPG is 17 PPG, and in 05-06 he averaged 18.9 PPG over 22 playoff games. So, while I agree that Isiah is better than Nash and that Nash is an awful defender, you citing Terry scoring 19 points on Nash doesn't prove anything.

[SunsCaptain]

This is such revisionist history, which is no surprise from Nash haters. I might actually make a video of those two series.

Should I sit here and go over all the games where Isiah got shitted on and he played no where near as well as Nash has offensively? Do you want me to show you Sam Vincent giving Isiah 27 points in a half? of a playoff game they lost but were favored to win no less? or Doc Rivers outscoring him 34-5 in a playoff game? or footage of Dumars taking guys for Isiah if he's having trouble guarding them? fukk off with your cherry picking and you didn't even cherry pick well...those guys didn't even that great of a playoff series against Nash. You're citing games where Terry is shooting 6/15 as examples for why the Suns lost because of Nash's defense...credibility out the window right there.


He doesn't have a grasp of basketball knowledge...

He is using the ring excuse as an argument...

He doesn't know that a championship is a team achievement.

:lol

Nothing is worse than people that use ring logic....


And D.J. other post of yours have been ok I think that Ive seen on this site but you are going off the deep end man.

[D.J.]

you citing Terry scoring 19 points on Nash doesn't prove anything.


Yes it does. It proves his lack of D, as well as his teammates, cost the Suns games. And if you really want first hand proof, watch the Suns/Spurs series from '05. The extra coverage Phoenix sent to help Nash resulted in Duncan putting up games of 15, 16, and 15 rebounds. Had Nash been able to handle Parker, we might have seen a different outcome.



He doesn't have a grasp of basketball knowledge...

He is using the ring excuse as an argument...

He doesn't know that a championship is a team achievement.


I am easily one of the most knowledgable posters here. You are simply a Nash homer and the fact that you use one statistical argument and use it as holy numbers shows you know nothing. Funny how you accuse me of using the ring excuse while you use stats that only show one end of the court. You my friend, failed miserably.



Nothing is worse than people that use ring logic....


Nothing is worse than people that rely on stats without watching the games. :violin: :sleeping :facepalm :lol :roll:

[RRR3]

Yes it does. It proves his lack of D, as well as his teammates, cost the Suns games. And if you really want first hand proof, watch the Suns/Spurs series from '05. The extra coverage Phoenix sent to help Nash resulted in Duncan putting up games of 15, 16, and 15 rebounds. Had Nash been able to handle Parker, we might have seen a different outcome.





I am easily one of the most knowledgable posters here. You are simply a Nash homer and the fact that you use one statistical argument and use it as holy numbers shows you know nothing. Funny how you accuse me of using the ring excuse while you use stats that only show one end of the court. You my friend, failed miserably.





Nothing is worse than people that rely on stats without watching the games. :violin: :sleeping :facepalm :lol :roll:

How does it prove "his lack of D"? Those stats are close to Terry's career scoring averages. Now, don't get me wrong, Nash is trash (lol I rhymed!) on defense, but I am just pointing out that you citing Terry scoring right around his average while being guarded by Nash isn't a very good way to prove Nash sucks on defense.

[SunsCaptain]

Well there is no hope for him and I realize it is pointless arguing with delusional people on the internet...to the ignore list for awhile. :cry:

But don't worry I'll remove you at some point...If I see you are contributing well.

Stay classy!

[D.J.]

How does it prove "his lack of D"? Those stats are close to Terry's career scoring averages. Now, don't get me wrong, Nash is trash (lol I rhymed!) on defense, but I am just pointing out that you citing Terry scoring right around his average while being guarded by Nash isn't a very good way to prove Nash sucks on defense.


Terry was getting open looks. In fact, he should have put up more. The series against Parker was more obvious.



Well there is no hope for him and I realize it is pointless arguing with delusional people on the internet...to the ignore list for awhile.

But don't worry I'll remove you at some point...If I see you are contributing well.

Stay classy!


:roll: @ you calling me delusional. You will be going on my ignore list and not coming off. Stay in school, kid. You're one that can't afford to miss a day.

[Jasper]

Isiah Thomas, no question. I love Nash, but Isiah would've gotten at least one of the Suns teams to the Finals.
purely speculation

---------------
Isiah Thomas is slighted on this board because of his GM , coach debacles.
But he was an elite PG that did everything very well.
However he at times did not have good sportsmanship.

---------------
Nash 100% is a good sportsmanship guy , weak in his younger days as a defender...
BUT both players could play in any era and be dominate.

I'll tak Zeke because of his rings.
(If you put Nash on that same team , why wouldn't he win two rings as well) :confusedshrug:

[DaPerceive]

p
I'll tak Zeke because of his rings.
(If you put Nash on that same team , why wouldn't he win two rings as well) :confusedshrug:
How does that make him a better player? If we are comparing all-time lists, careers, etc. then that would matter, but we are simply just comparing who was the better player between the two so it shouldn't play a factor at all. It's not like Nash was ever the reason why the Suns came up short anyways. Nash always did his part; I can't say the same for his teammates though.

While people are ripping on Nash's defense, how much better do you guys think Isiah was defensively? Isiah was not a good defender either.

[Jasper]

How does that make him a better player? If we are comparing all-time lists, careers, etc. then that would matter, but we are simply just comparing who was the better player between the two so it shouldn't play a factor at all. It's not like Nash was ever the reason why the Suns came up short anyways. Nash always did his part; I can't say the same for his teammates though.

While people are ripping on Nash's defense, how much better do you guys think Isiah was defensively? Isiah was not a good defender either.

I watched Zeke his whole career , kind of first hand , because of the central division , Bulls and Buck games.
People remember Zeke's floor general prowl's ,, but he was a much better defender than most posters on here realize.
He was very disruptive in passing lanes , double teams as well as steals.
He broke up fast breaks , while Nash just filled a defensive lane.

The two rings I consider a difference , because he was the floor general of two championship teams.

Nash isa HOF'r as well with his MVP2

[WoGiTaLiA1]

Nash's defense was horrible and it certainly hurt them in the playoffs but that also doesn't make him the reason they lost. They lost because their entire team was horrible defensively, sure Nash deserves the majority of blame on that as the team leader and standard setter, but he isn't THE reason they never made the finals.

Question is easy though, Thomas was better at just about everything in a more competitive era, better leader and defender by a long way, better scorer and on a par as a playmaker.

It's a shame that being such an awful GM and first class asshole off the court makes people diminish his achievements on the court to the point that people will make this comparison.

Steve Nash is basically the opposite of Isiah, really nice guy who is genuinely hard to dislike who has played in some great systems to put up gaudy numbers and has never really been good enough to dislike because he kills your team either. It will probably result in him being remembered as a much better player than he ever actually was.

[D.J.]

Nash's defense was horrible and it certainly hurt them in the playoffs but that also doesn't make him the reason they lost. They lost because their entire team was horrible defensively, sure Nash deserves the majority of blame on that as the team leader and standard setter, but he isn't THE reason they never made the finals.


He's not the sole reason, but a big part. When you need extra coverage because you can't guard Tony Parker of all people, that's just pathetic. And this was '05 Parker.



Question is easy though, Thomas was better at just about everything in a more competitive era, better leader and defender by a long way, better scorer and on a par as a playmaker.


That about sums it up.



It's a shame that being such an awful GM and first class asshole off the court makes people diminish his achievements on the court to the point that people will make this comparison.


The die hard fan knows Isiah > Nash, asshole or not. Truthfully, I really struggle to put Nash on my top 10 all-time PG list. I personally have Zeke at 4.



Steve Nash is basically the opposite of Isiah, really nice guy who is genuinely hard to dislike who has played in some great systems to put up gaudy numbers and has never really been good enough to dislike because he kills your team either. It will probably result in him being remembered as a much better player than he ever actually was.


Agreed. I've met him. Very likeable guy, but joining Phoenix elevated his numbers as it did with quite a few others.

[ShaqAttack3234]

The Suns interior defense was a bigger problem, imo, and in general, their coach(D'Antoni isn't going to coach an above average defensive team). Very few could have made those Phoenix teams as good as Nash did offensively, and whatever negatives he brought defensively came nowhere near outweighing the positives he brought offensively. He definitely wasn't the reason they didn't make the finals, he was the main reason they were as good as they were. The point guards who were better enough defensively to make that team noticeably better at that end, weren't good enough offensive players to match what Nash brought, particularly the way that team was built.

Nevermind that Phoenix was a really weak rebounding team.

[Go Getter]

Nash would have been horrible on Daly's Pistons. I don't think Laimbeer, Rodman, and Dumars would have respected his lack of defense.

People are really trying to say that Zeke wasn't a better defender than Nash?

[Go Getter]

The Suns interior defense was a bigger problem, imo, and in general, their coach(D'Antoni isn't going to coach an above average defensive team). Very few could have made those Phoenix teams as good as Nash did offensively, and whatever negatives he brought defensively came nowhere near outweighing the positives he brought offensively. He definitely wasn't the reason they didn't make the finals, he was the main reason they were as good as they were. The point guards who were better enough defensively to make that team noticeably better at that end, weren't good enough offensive players to match what Nash brought, particularly the way that team was built.

Nevermind that Phoenix was a really weak rebounding team.

Disagree.

They played that style of ball largely due to Nash and it never reaped anything because defense is more important than offense.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Disagree.

They played that style of ball largely due to Nash and it never reaped anything because defense is more important than offense.

Defense is not more important than offense. They're equally important. Most teams that win titles are good in both areas, some better offensive teams, some better defensive teams, but in general, it usually takes being good at both ends to win. The Suns were a legit title contender, but the Spurs were just better and the Suns also had some misfortune(Amare's injury in '06, suspension in '07 and to a lesser extent, Johnson's '05 injury).

[G.O.A.T]

Defense is not more important than offense. They're equally important. Most teams that win titles are good in both areas, some better offensive teams, some better defensive teams, but in general, it usually takes being good at both ends to win.

Individually, I'd say defense is more important because the vast majority of NBA guys have been elite scorers at the high school, international or college level. That said Nash's impact for the positive on offense is greater than his impact towards the negative on defense.

[brisbaneman]

Nash is the better one-one-one, individual player but point guards don't win championships so i'll take Isaiah.

[Spue]

I will take zeke

[Solid Snake]

Give me Nash every single time. I don't want a mentally retarded person to lead my team despite how good of a basketball player he is.

[bizil]

I gotta roll with Zeke, even though Nash is a legend and a top 7-10 GOAT PG. The difference for me is the way Zeke can will a team through scoring along with his defensive prowess. I think Zeke was underrated for his D. Nash is known to do it too, but at the PG spot Magic, Big O, and Zeke were on another level in terms of taking over a game scoring the rock. But I've always been a believer that the best PG's (other than Cousy, Kidd, Stockton) have Batman capabilities to go with their brilliant playmaking and floor generalship. Look at Magic, Big O, Isiah, Clyde, Payton, Nash, and Tiny. Or guys like KJ, Hardaway, Paul, and DWill.

However in terms of tremendous outside shooting, great slashing ability, and great passing as a package, I feel Nash is the best PG of all time in that regard.

[OmniStrife]

This Terry argument is rediculous. :facepalm

Terry averaged 19.2 PPG in the last 5 games in the NBA finals.

By D.J.'s logic, LeBron, Wade, are bad defenders.

A good NBA scorer usually scores, no matter who's defending him.

I'm not saying Nash is a super defender, nor am I saying he's better than Thomas.

But that's a dumb argument and Nash's D is vastly underrated.

[32Dayz]

I'll take Nash. :rockon:

[WoGiTaLiA1]

The Suns interior defense was a bigger problem, imo, and in general, their coach(D'Antoni isn't going to coach an above average defensive team). Very few could have made those Phoenix teams as good as Nash did offensively, and whatever negatives he brought defensively came nowhere near outweighing the positives he brought offensively.

I think they were related, part of the reason they were so bad on the interior is because they were so bad on the exterior, and vice versa. Basically they were just awful all around on defense!


Nash is the better one-one-one, individual player but point guards don't win championships so i'll take Isaiah.

I... I... I don't understand the question.

Seriously though? How was Nash the better one-on-one player? and how do point guards not win championships?

[Nash-tastic]

Nash fan here. I choose Zeke as the better player and as the MAIN option on my team but if I have a lot of scoring options of my team, I would go with Nash. Nash has superior playmaking abilities but I have no shame in saying Zeke was better in almost everything else. Nash was more efficient though.

Btw, Nash is not the reason they couldn't make it to the Finals, I blame that on D'Antoni

[Go Getter]

Nash fan here. I choose Zeke as the better player and as the MAIN option on my team but if I have a lot of scoring options of my team, I would go with Nash. Nash has superior playmaking abilities but I have no shame in saying Zeke was better in almost everything else. Nash was more efficient though.

Btw, Nash is not the reason they couldn't make it to the Finals, I blame that on D'Antoni
:violin:

[Yung D-Will]

People love to harp on the one flaw in peoples games like Nash's defense or Kidd's shooting but they don't aknowlage that in their primes their overall impacts was so much higher than the impact that their flaw had on the games. I mean just look at the change in win totals when Kidd was signed to the Nets and Nash signed to the Suns. Just because Nash didn't play defense didn't stop him from improving his team enough to be close to the top of the league in terms of record

[Go Getter]

Individually, I'd say defense is more important because the vast majority of NBA guys have been elite scorers at the high school, international or college level. That said Nash's impact for the positive on offense is greater than his impact towards the negative on defense.
Exactly.

Defense is more important than offense for two reasons:

1. Everyone plays offense or wants to....very few players love and put as much work in the the defensive side as they do on the offensive side.

2. Defense feeds your offense. If you have a stellar defense you will get easy buckets from the transition game, steals and blocks, and you wear your opponent down in general.

Any coach that's worth a lick starts his training camp with what? Defense.

I have been on several teams and I've never had a coach stress offense over defense.

D'Antoni does though it seems and his teams are rarely true contenders.

[Yung D-Will]

Nash fan here. I choose Zeke as the better player and as the MAIN option on my team but if I have a lot of scoring options of my team, I would go with Nash. Nash has superior playmaking abilities but I have no shame in saying Zeke was better in almost everything else. Nash was more efficient though.

Btw, Nash is not the reason they couldn't make it to the Finals, I blame that on D'Antoni

Nash was a better shooter also. Best shooting pg of all time imo.

13 seasons shooting 40+ from three. 6 seasons shooting 50% from the filed. Second all time in foul line percentage also his 4, 50/40/90 seasons.

Anyhow regardless Isiah is the third best pg of all time imo

[Go Getter]

People love to harp on the one flaw in peoples games like Nash's defense or Kidd's shooting but they don't aknowlage that in their primes their overall impacts was so much higher than the impact that their flaw had on the games. I mean just look at the change in win totals when Kidd was signed to the Nets and Nash signed to the Suns. Just because Nash didn't play defense didn't stop him from improving his team enough to be close to the top of the league in terms of record
Yeah but the team he left got better as well.

Is that supposed to happen when you lose an MVP HOF PG?

They truly don't miss Nash now, they won a championship with an almost washed up Kidd.

[Go Getter]

Nash was a better shooter also. Best shooting pg of all time imo.

13 seasons shooting 40+ from three. 6 seasons shooting 50% from the filed. Second all time in foul line percentage also his 4, 50/40/90 seasons.

Anyhow regardless Isiah is the third best pg of all time imo
But he can't guard his position. How much better do you think Isaiah's offensive stats would look if every time he had to go up against a top flight PG he was switched off and hidden by his coach?

There is nothing more embarrassing imo than to have your coach switch you off your man because you can't guard him.

Now 38 (or whatever) year old Grant Hill has to guard D. Rose with his Frankenstein ankle, smh....do you think G. Hill enjoys that? Do you think it makes him a better or worse leader that he can't guard his position?

To me, and mind you, I'm a defensive minded guy, that is a real knock on a player's status.

[Yung D-Will]

But he can't guard his position.

There is nothing more embarassing imo than to have your coach switch you off your man because you can't guard him.

Now 38 (or whatever) year old Grant Hill has to guard D. Rose with his Frankenstein ankle, smh....do you think G. Hill enjoys that? Do you think it makes him a better or worse leader that he can't guard his position?

To me, and mind you, I'm a defensive minded guy, that is a real knock on a player's status.

Whether or not he could guard his position(Which I think you people are dramaticlly overstating especilly considering how much Nash playoff games I've watched over the past month) didn't stop him from having a crazy overall impact on his teams and leading his team to both regular season and playoff sucess. I can only think of a few major games in which his defense might have been a reason his team lost but it's no more than that the times when Jason Kidd missed wide open shots and his team lost the game.

I don't think one flaw in your overall game affects your leadership I don't actually understand where that idea comes from I don't see Rondo as a better leader than Nash because he's a better defender I think Leadership is a whole differnt category.

I think people confuse being the more complete player for being the better player most of the time. And to me they're two differnt things.

[chips93]

Give me Nash every single time. I don't want a mentally retarded person to lead my team despite how good of a basketball player he is.

''in spite of how good a basketball player he is'' . . . what else matters in determing who you would want on your team? if this makes sense to you, then you have a bad way of defining a good basketball player.

[Charlie Sheen]

I don't hate Nash. I call it as I see it. Isiah won 2 rings and made the Finals 3 times. That's 2 more rings and 3 more Finals appearances than Steve. Isiah didn't have a lack of defense weakness that cost the Pistons games.

My credibility is just fine. There's a reason Isiah won 2 titles as the alpha dog and Steve Nash until this year was the only MVP winner to never make the Finals.

point guards wont change game outcomes with their defense like an interior player. and they look a hell of a lot better defensively when tim duncan plays behind them

[Duncan21formvp]

Give me Nash every single time. I don't want a mentally retarded person to lead my team despite how good of a basketball player he is.
:wtf:
Wouldn't that apply to someone who doesn't make good decisions on the basketball court?

[icewill36]

He most certainly was a reason.


2005
D'Antoni puts Nash on Parker with no weak side help. Games 1 and 2, Parker lights up Nash for 29/7/2/2 on 13/22 shooting and 24/5/3 on 12/20 shooting. D'Antoni finally realizes in game 3 that Nash can't guard Parker alone and gives him the weak side help, but Duncan goes off for 33/15 with 3 blocks, 15/16 with 2 blocks, and 31/15 with 3 blocks.

2006
Nash goes off for 27/16 in a game 1 win. Game 2, Terry drops 18 on him followed by 19 the next game. Suns win game 4 and in game 5, Terry puts up 14/9. Game 6 with the Suns leading in the 4th, Terry drops 19. In 3 of the 4 losses, Nash allowed Terry to put up 18, 19, and 19.


So yes, his inability to hold down Tony Parker and Jason Terry(neither were elite offensive players) is what cost them.

interior defense was the suns problem. they were too small up front with a PF playing C, and a SF playing PF.

you do not need a good defender at the PG position to be great defensively or to win a title... just look at the lakers. fisher cant stay in front of anyone, but that doesnt matter when you have two 7 footers protecting the basket.

[IGOTGAME]

Isiah was a better player and better point guard. Isiah is so underrated on this board.

The Suns played like that because of Nash. They catered to Nash. No team that plays like that is winning the title.

[D.J.]

point guards wont change game outcomes with their defense like an interior player. and they look a hell of a lot better defensively when tim duncan plays behind them


Defense starts at the perimeter. If you're allowing your guy to blow right by you to score or create for others, that hurts you just as much as having weak interior D.



interior defense was the suns problem. they were too small up front with a PF playing C, and a SF playing PF.

you do not need a good defender at the PG position to be great defensively or to win a title... just look at the lakers. fisher cant stay in front of anyone, but that doesnt matter when you have two 7 footers protecting the basket.


No one is saying their interior D was strong. But if Nash was able to do his job, perhaps the interior D would not have received as much blame. Guys like Amare, Diaw, and Marion may not have been able to defend 1 on 1 in the post, but they at least could rebound. Nash couldn't even guard a folding chair.

[Shepseskaf]

Isiah Thomas.



Next question.
Basically.

Even posing the question is an insult to Zeke.

[Legends66NBA7]

Basically.

Even posing the question is an insult to Zeke.

According to him, Isiah is the 2nd greatest point guard of all-time.