***How Many Rings Would Kobe Win???*** [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

32Dayz

11-16-2011, 08:53 AM

A Scientist from the Future has gone back in time to 1997 the year both Allen Iverson and Kobe Bryant entered the NBA as rookies.
The Scientist uses a device to control the GM's of both franchises and forces them to swap their new found rookies.

Allen Iverson is now a Rookie on the 97 Lakers and Kobe Bryant is now a Rookie for the 97 Sixers.

How many Rings do you personally and honestly believe Kobe Bryant would win from 97-2010 with these Rosters below.

1997
Jerry Stackhouse
Scott Williams
Clarence Weatherspoon
Derrick Coleman
Kobe Bryant

1998
Derrick Coleman
Aaron McKie
Theo Ratliff
Tim Thomas
Kobe Bryant

1999
Eric Snow
George Lynch
Matt Geiger
Theo Ratliff
Kobe Bryant

2000
Theo Ratliff
George Lynch
Tyrone Hill
Eric Snow
Kobe Bryant

2001
Dikembe Mutombo
Tyrone Hill
Aaron McKie
Jumaine Jones
Kobe Bryant

2002
Derrick Coleman
Dikembe Mutombo
Eric Snow
Matt Harpring
Kobe Bryant

2003
Keith Van Horn
Derrick Coleman
Eric Snow
Kenny Thomas
Kobe Bryant

2004
Kenny Thomas
Glenn Robinson
Eric Snow
Samuel Dalembert
Kobe Bryant

2005
Samuel Dalembert
Kyle Korver
Andre Iguodala
Chris Webber
Kobe Bryant

2006
Chris Webber
Andre Iguodala
Kevin Ollie
Samuel Dalembert
Kobe Bryant

2007
Chris Webber
Andre Iguodala
Kevin Ollie
Samuel Dalembert
Kobe Bryant

2008
Marcus Camby
Linas Kleiza
Carmelo Anthony
Kenyon Martin
Kobe Bryant

2009
Rasheed Wallace
Tayshaun Prince
Rodney Stuckey
Amir Johnson
Kobe Bryant

2010
Andre Iguodala
Samuel Dalembert
Thaddeus Young
Louis Williams
Kobe Bryant

HiphopRelated

11-16-2011, 08:57 AM

0-1

HylianNightmare

11-16-2011, 09:11 AM

D-Wade316

11-16-2011, 09:12 AM

Please state what conference is Kobe's team playing.

32Dayz

11-16-2011, 09:14 AM

Please state what conference is Kobe's team playing.

He is playing on the Teams Iverson played for.

When he was playing for the Sixers : East
When he was playing for the Pistons : East
When he was playing for the Nuggets : West

So basically he is always playing in the East except for 2008 where he will play for the Nuggets out in the West.

chips93

11-16-2011, 09:15 AM

impossible to say.

maybe guys like stackhouse can develop better with kobe than they could with iverson? too many variable so say for sure.

although if you placed the 2008 kobe as we know him to be in reality (discounting how he develops differently as he inevitably does if he was in iverson's position) on that nuggets team, then they could definitely contend. probably have to move kleiza out of the starting 5 in favor of a pg.

Yung D-Will

11-16-2011, 09:18 AM

Does Iverson really compliment Shaq............................

32Dayz

11-16-2011, 09:19 AM

Does Iverson really compliment Shaq............................

This thread is not about Iverson or Shaq.

If you want to discuss that please make a separate thread. :cheers:

Yung D-Will

11-16-2011, 09:45 AM

This thread is not about Iverson or Shaq.

If you want to discuss that please make a separate thread. :cheers:
Really? You do realize if Kobe is on the sixers and he gets to the finals from 99-02 he has to face the Lakers. If A.I doesn't complement Shaq then it complety affects if Kobe wins the title. If AI is ballhogging from Shaq and Kobe has the ball in his hands on the sixers than it might completly change the outcome.

So Don't try to dismiss me.

Don't come at me when I'm actually positing in a thread that has a clear agenda.

32Dayz

11-16-2011, 09:50 AM

Really? You do realize if Kobe is on the sixers and he gets to the finals from 99-02 he has to face the Lakers. If A.I doesn't complement Shaq then it complety affects if Kobe wins the title. If AI is ballhogging from Shaq and Kobe has the ball in his hands on the sixers than it might completly change the outcome.

So Don't try to dismiss me.

Don't come at me when I'm actually positing in a thread that has a clear agenda.

I'm not "coming at you" and this thread has no Agenda except getting the opinions from different people regarding the question I proposed.

Thats completely up for you to decide for yourself weather or not you think a Shaq/Iverson duo would make the Finals and if you think Kobe and the Sixers would make the Finals and face LA there.

You have to decide "for yourself" if he'd be able to lead his team past them (if you think he'd be able to lead that team to the Finals and if you personally think LA would be there waiting for him.
Depending on how "you feel" you can either think he will win or lose and that will show in what should be your normal response to the thread by which I mean you'd say Kobe will win x# amount of Rings.

:cheers:

Yung D-Will

11-16-2011, 09:52 AM

You've made like four threads claiming how Kobe's been carried to all his ships and now you've made this thread and you say you don't have an agenda.

I quit.

32Dayz

11-16-2011, 09:53 AM

You've made like four threads claiming how Kobe's been carried to all his ships and now you've made this thread and you say you don't have an agenda.

I quit.

I have never once said "except in response to obvious trolling" that Kobe was ever carried to any of his Ships.

He was a vital piece in every Championship he has won and the 00-02 Lakers and the 08-10 Lakers certainly would not have won without him.

Quit trying to derail the thread and simply answer the Question, otherwise gtfo. :facepalm

Yung D-Will

11-16-2011, 09:59 AM

I have never once said "except in response to obvious trolling" that Kobe was ever carried to any of his Ships.
He was a vital piece in every Championship he has won and the 00-02 Lakers and the 08-10 Lakers certainly would not have won without him.

Quit trying to derail the thread and simply answer the Question, otherwise gtfo. :facepalm

Yawn, Like I said you're the one who responded negatively to me asking a completely relevant question to the thread and then tried to deny his clear agenda.

But anyway we'll pretend you don't have an agenda :oldlol:

And I'll say that if he wins it'll probally be in 01 considering I don't feel Shaq and A.I would work together and I feel that Kobe would thrive with the team depening soley on him and having defenders in the paint

Harison

11-16-2011, 10:00 AM

Max one.

Fatal9

11-16-2011, 10:03 AM

Shaq fan of all people trying to bring down another player for playing with talented teammates :facepalm

32Dayz

11-16-2011, 10:05 AM

Shaq fan of all people trying to bring down another player for playing with talented teammates :facepalm

I am not trying to "bring him down"

@ Fatal9 : Shaq has only played on one Title winning team with a player better then himself. (06 Wade) :facepalm

@ Kobe Fans : Please quit being butthurt and simply answer the question.
You can say 10 Rings if it makes you happy.

Yung D-Will

11-16-2011, 10:07 AM

Not a Kobe fan clearly. In fact it seems like Jacks and Alphawolf claim I'm a Kobe hater every day.

I'm just stating your agenda is so out in the open that I'm literally dying

32Dayz

11-16-2011, 10:09 AM

Not a Kobe fan clearly. In fact it seems like Jacks and Alphawolf claim I'm a Kobe hater every day.

I'm just stating your agenda is so out in the open that I'm literally dying

How do I have an Agenda?

I asked a simple question with reasonable parameters.

I dont force people to vote or answer the question in a way that would please me or this "imaginary agenda" you think I have.

StacksOnDeck

11-16-2011, 10:12 AM

Let's see Kobe brought the worst playoff team to 7 games against the Suns in 2006 so it would be safe to say he would win the championship in 2001 against Philly.

32Dayz

11-16-2011, 10:15 AM

Let's see Kobe brought the worst playoff team to 7 games against the Suns in 2006 so it would be safe to say he would win the championship in 2001 against Philly.

Against Philly? He would be playing for Philly.

I doubt a Kobe/Mutombo led Sixers team would be able to beat any of the teams out West in 01.

You have Prime Duncan + DRob and the Spurs.
You have Prime Shaq at his Peak with Allen Iverson at his Peak.
You have a very deep and talented Sacramento team.

WillyJakk

11-16-2011, 10:27 AM

I think 2001 & 2002 Sixers w/ Kobe, Snow, McKie, and Deke are a legit championship team, and I think Kobe w/ what was leftover from C-Webb in 2005 have a shot.

2001 Sixers NBA Champions
2002 Sixers NBA Champions

I'd say.

I'm thinkin' they'd have a chance to go back to back 2001-2002 Vs LA or San Antonio.

Kobe (who was in his athletic prime) & Deke match up better against A.I. & Shaq or Manu & Duncan/ Robinson since he'd have full reign to shoot/ create at will he wouldn't need to appease another player cause Larry Brown woulda gave him the GREEN LANTERN LIGHT.

Larry woulda loved Kobe's work ethic/ etc, match made in heaven.

At least that's how I see it.

Also came into this thread it was gonna be stupid when I read the "scientist/ time machine thing" but it wasn't as bad as I thought.

knightfall88

11-16-2011, 10:58 AM

Lebron sucks

guy

11-16-2011, 11:02 AM

Good chance they make it to the Finals in 01, 02, 08, 09, and 10. But I highly doubt he wins in 01, 02, and 08. 09 and 10 they might've won though.

StacksOnDeck

11-16-2011, 11:03 AM

Against Philly? He would be playing for Philly.

I doubt a Kobe/Mutombo led Sixers team would be able to beat any of the teams out West in 01.

You have Prime Duncan + DRob and the Spurs.
You have Prime Shaq at his Peak with Allen Iverson at his Peak.
You have a very deep and talented Sacramento team.

I mean with Philly.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

11-16-2011, 11:46 AM

Kobe with the best defensive team in the league (i.e., 2001-2002) goes to the Finals..and probably wins there. I could totally see Kobe lighting up the Lakers perimeter players or lack there of. 2001 Shaq was a total beast though. I think that Sixers/Lakers series goes the full 7 if you swapped AI with Kobe.

32Dayz

11-16-2011, 11:53 AM

Kobe with the best defensive team in the league (i.e., 2001-2002) goes to the Finals..and probably wins there.

Really?

I am not sure how much better Kobe was over Iverson in 01 and 02.

I could definitely see Kobe outplaying him but not in the same way Shaq would Dominate Mutombo.

Lakers also had Fox who was a pretty good perimeter defender and a couple of solid clutch roleplayers.

I really cant possibly imagine Kobe beating any of the top teams from the West in the early 00's with those Sixer squads.

Duncan21formvp

11-16-2011, 11:57 AM

Lakers had the best player in the league in Shaq for a good 4-5. Philly had nothing until 2001 with Mutombo and that was for one year.
I think Kobe and Webber in 2005 would win though if Kobe is healthy.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

11-16-2011, 11:59 AM

Really?

I am not sure how much better Kobe was over Iverson in 01 and 02.

I could see Kobe outplaying him but not in the same way Shaq would Dominate Mutombo.

Lakers also had Fox who was a pretty good perimeter defender and a couple of solid clutch roleplayers.

Yep.

I have high regard for 2001 Kobe. Top 3-5 perimeter defender, a much better scorer and playmaker than Iverson too. Kobe 75% of the 2001 postseason was on another tier than Iverson.

I'm of the opinion, Shaq was robbed the 2001 MVP. as well.

32Dayz

11-16-2011, 12:03 PM

Yeah he was amazing in 2001 however I think the Dominance of Shaq especially on the 0ffensive end really helped him out since teams were forced to pick their poison between the two.

I remember specifically in the Spurs series Kobe torching the hell out of Antonio Daniels and although Duncan and DRob wanted badly to come over most of the time to Double Kobe when he drove into the paint that pretty much meant an automatic bucket for Shaq. That was I think the season where Shaq and Kobe played at their highest level together.

You can see some of this in his APG that season which was the highest of his Career in the playoffs at 6.1 Per Game.

Still I just cant possibly see him beating a team led by Prime Shaq or Prime Duncan especially with the lack of 0ffensive options and talent those early 00 sixer teams had.

They would be an amazing defensive squad thats for sure but 0ffensively they would be quite limited outside of Kobe.

DMAVS41

11-16-2011, 12:07 PM

At most 1. Most likely 0.

But considering Kobe is better than Iverson, they have more success overall and probably have a few deeper runs in the playoffs. But those teams just weren't good enough to contending year in year out. They would have a chance in 01....depending on who replaces Kobe on the Lakers.

32Dayz

11-16-2011, 12:09 PM

They would have a chance in 01....depending on who replaces Kobe on the Lakers.

Iverson would be replacing Kobe on the Lakers.

DMAVS41

11-16-2011, 12:17 PM

Iverson would be replacing Kobe on the Lakers.

Then 0.

ILLsmak

11-16-2011, 12:18 PM

Does Iverson really compliment Shaq............................

No reason to believe he doesn't as much or more than Kobe.

People say Iverson shot too much but when did he ever play with someone he could dump the ball off to for a sure dunk?

Iverson allows his team to offensive rebound even more than Kobe does because Iverson changed the defenses and was more relentless in attacking the rim/getting past the first defender.

I've always thought Iverson would work better with Shaq than Kobe would. Iverson was able to go practically 48 and he's a legit primary ball handler. Then you throw in a defensive SG opposed to having fisher at PG.

The problem wasn't taking bad shots for Kobe, it was taking a shot when he could have easily passed it to Shaq for a dunk just to spite him. It's hard to believe Iverson would not make that pass. I think Iverson has a big ego, but I think he is secure in himself enough to know he should feed a big.

Iverson in his prime was one of the best "bad shot takers." Which meant he would basically take all of the team's bad shots. And everyone else could just wait in their scoring spots and feel comfortable.

-Smak

Quickening

11-16-2011, 12:30 PM

I would say 2 max, but who cares...

Yao Ming's Foot

11-16-2011, 12:51 PM

Kobe with elite defensive teammates and/or great depth in a weak conference for once??? wow

SAKOTXA

11-16-2011, 12:55 PM

You guys forget that it is much easier to build a team around Kobe, than it is with AI.

AlphaWolf24

11-16-2011, 01:02 PM

early 2000's Eastern Conference = 8 NBA Finals = 5 Championships

andgar923

11-16-2011, 01:12 PM

Considering how great Kobe performs in the finals and critical/deciding games...... ZERO.

WillyJakk

11-16-2011, 01:46 PM

Here's some things to take into account in this scenario:

2001-2002 Kobe attacked the basket like this:
http://www.2uptop.com/sites/www.2uptop.com/uploads/images/Article%20Pics/photos_decade/photo_110.jpg

So factor him actually GOING AT Shaq in that way which means Shaq is getting in foul trouble...no doubt in my mind about that.

That's why I think Kobe, Deke, HoF HC Larry Brown, and co. would win 2001-2002 NBA Finals.

Next:
Does this guy leave Philly?
http://www.theloopnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Larry-Brown-265x300.jpg

He loves work ethic and Kobe has a GREAT work ethic which means would he clash w/ Kobe the way he clashed w/ AI?

For the sake of this argument let's say he does since he always seems to find a way to find fault in someone, it then leads to this:
http://www.sports-gallery.com/images/2004detroitpistonsteam.jpg
Do they get past these boys in 2004?

Which then leads to this:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_BwMQiTTD5Ak/Sidi8Nc9TAI/AAAAAAAAAik/sBNvNk8l6QE/s400/2006+NBA+Finals-+D+Whistle.jpg

Shaq still goes through his contract squabble w/ Jerry Buss so he ends up in Miami still, so would Kobe beat a young gun named D-Wade w/ Shaq?

Then you gotta remember this guy and the run he had in Cleveland:
http://urbansportstalk.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/lebron-james-cavaliers.jpg

And then does he really get pasted these guys:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uvvGA4VXvDQ/TgrQuIYf0KI/AAAAAAAAIZo/J47O8GfvBGw/s1600/boston+celtics.jpg

W/ all these things being factors I think 2001-2002 is his best shot at a title and I think he'd have won those.

Fatal9

11-16-2011, 01:48 PM

The number of 50 point games in his career would easily double...

And Iverson played most of his games in '07 in Denver not Philly.

Boston C's

11-16-2011, 01:54 PM

honestly zero... kobe is better then A.I but not leagues above him in the early 2000's... probably makes a couple finals appearances but gets smacked up by either the spurs or lakers

D-Wade316

11-16-2011, 01:56 PM

2000 - no (Shaq)
2001 - no (Shaq)
2002 - no (Shaq)
2003 - no (Tim)
2004 - no (Detroit)
2005 - no (Detriot or Miami)
2006 - no (Miami)
2007 - Possibly
2008 - no (Boston)
2009 - no (Cavs or Magic)
2010 - no (Boston)

Deuce Bigalow

11-16-2011, 04:46 PM

4.

2001, 2006-2008

Kobe with Denver in '08 with Melo is a championship IMO
2001 yeah becuase the defense was great
2006 and 2007 was Kobe's best years but who knows what he couldve done with a good team, and with Webber and Iguodala I think he wouldve got it done

Deuce Bigalow

11-16-2011, 04:56 PM

How many titles would Shaq win if he never had Kobe or Wade....0

pegasus

11-16-2011, 04:59 PM

early 2000's Eastern Conference = 8 NBA Finals = 5 Championships

This. And 5 FMVP's.

Deuce Bigalow

11-16-2011, 05:06 PM

]
And then does he really get pasted these guys:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uvvGA4VXvDQ/TgrQuIYf0KI/AAAAAAAAIZo/J47O8GfvBGw/s1600/boston+celtics.jpg

Kobe having Melo, Camby, and Martin in 2008 I think they'll beat Boston
remember Kobe took the Lakers to the Finals and won 2 games vs Boston in '08 without Bynum and with a 17/9 Gasol, Camby and Martin can replace the '08 Gasol, and Kobe with Carmelo, thats a tough offense to stop, and a much better post defense than what he had in '08

32Dayz

11-16-2011, 05:19 PM

Camby and Martin can replace the '08 Gasol, and Kobe with Carmelo.

No.

Martin was crap in 08 on both ends of the floor and Camby was pretty much useless 0ffensively.

Camby might be able to replace Gasol's defense and rebounding but thats as far as it go's.

Assuming Kobe and Carmelo can mesh perfectly in just over a season together they might have a small chance at contending in 08.

I personally dont think they would be able to beat the much deeper Celtics.
I dont think the 08 Nuggets with Kobe would be a better team then the 08 Lakers were.

Kobe has shown he can win with a 2 Way Star Big and some good roleplayers but not with another Star Wing (not saying he couldnt but he's never been in that situation before).

Also there is 0% Chance (IMO) of Kobe and the Sixers beating out any of the WCF Teams in the early 00's.
They would be a great defensive team but outside of Kobe they would have little to no offense and they'd have to go through Shaq/Iverson or Prime Duncan in the Finalz.

Teams would swarm Kobe and make him shoot jumpers all day and it would be extremely difficult for him to score in the paint with Prime Duncan or Prime Shaq patrolling down-low and its not like either of them would have to come out of the paint to guard Mount Mutombo.

If they faced LA Shaq would Dominate with 33/15/4BPG and if they swarmed him Iverson would feast.

If they Faced SAS Tim Duncan would abuse them.

SAC and Portland were also very deep and would dominate that Sixers team even with Kobe.

Deuce Bigalow

11-16-2011, 05:25 PM

No.

Martin was crap in 08 on both ends of the floor and Camby was pretty much useless 0ffensively.

Camby might be able to replace Gasol's defense and rebounding but thats as far as it go's.

Assuming Kobe and Carmelo can mesh perfectly in just over a season together they might have a small chance at contending in 08.

I personally dont think they would be able to beat the much deeper Celtics.

Marcus Camby in 2007-08: 13.1 RPG, 3.6 BPG
Carmelo Anthony in 2007-08: 25.7 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 3.4 APG, 49%

No way is KG going to bully Camby like he did gasol, and Kobe would have someone to pass to when he gets tripled team by the Cs defenders

2008 Champions

32Dayz

11-16-2011, 05:28 PM

Marcus Camby in 2007-08: 13.1 RPG, 3.6 BPG
Carmelo Anthony in 2007-08: 25.7 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 3.4 APG, 49%

No way is KG going to bully Camby like he did gasol, and Kobe would have someone to pass to when he gets tripled team by the Cs defenders

2008 Champions

Check out Melo's stats in the 08 Playoffs.

Gasol >

Also Camby is a great shotblocker and rebounder but not a particularly good M2M Defender.
He is even skinnier then Gasol and wouldn't have better luck stopping KG.

The 08 Lakers would still have a better Roster then the 08 Nugg's with Kobe, I highly doubt they beat the Celtics Trio.

Also I have my doubts that Kobe and Carmelo could play together.

Deuce Bigalow

11-16-2011, 05:30 PM

Check out Melo's stats in the 08 Playoffs.

Gasol >

The 08 Lakers would still have a better Roster then the 08 Nugg's with Kobe, I highly doubt they beat the Celtics Trio.

You think Gasol was better than Melo? :roll:

32Dayz

11-16-2011, 05:31 PM

You think Gasol was better than Melo?

He was far better then Melo in the 08 playoffs.

gtfo. :facepalm

Deuce Bigalow

11-16-2011, 05:33 PM

He was far better then Melo in the 08 playoffs you retard.

gtfo. :facepalm

They only played 4 games :facepalm

Melo in the regular season: 25.7 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 3.4 APG

32Dayz

11-16-2011, 05:38 PM

They only played 4 games :facepalm

Melo in the regular season:

21 PER, 25 PPG, 7 RPG, 3.4 APG | 49%FG

Gasol in the regular season:

24 PER, 19 PPG, 8 RPG, 3.5 APG | 59%FG

Forgetting how terrible Melo was in the 08 Playoffs.
Gasol was better in the regular season too and obviously far more impactful/better on the defensive end.

Gasol > Melo in 08.

I agree the Kobe Nuggets would have a chance to contend in 08 but acting like its a sure thing is stupid. I personally think they would be inferior to the 08 Lakers but not by a huge margin depending on how well Kobe can mesh with Melo.

Legends66NBA7

11-16-2011, 05:51 PM

Gasol in the regular season:

24 PER, 19 PPG, 8 RPG, 3.5 APG | 59%FG

Forgetting how terrible Melo was in the 08 Playoffs.
Gasol was better in the regular season too and 10x more impactful defensively.

Gasol > Melo in 08.

Quit being a damn Homer.

I agree the Kobe Nuggets would have a chance to contend in 08 but acting like its a sure thing is stupid. I personally think they would be inferior to the 08 Lakers but not by a huge margin depending on how well Kobe can mesh with Melo.

Gasol just doesn't get enough credit sometimes for his time in L.A. He's basically been a gift for the Lakers, with the exception of last year’s playoffs.

To me, a Kobe/Melo pairing seems bad. 2 guys who like to dominate the ball. Kind of like LeBron/Wade with much less passing between the 2.

WillyJakk

11-16-2011, 07:47 PM

Did anyone read the OP cause I see ALOT of "Kobe in Denver" (as AI was traded there) but nowhere does he state it in the OP, in fact he has Kobe on Philly his entire career.

Do you really think Philly would trade a native (Kobe) to Denver?

:roll:

You'd be basing this on Kobe being pissed at management/ etc then Stefanski going on live TV killing his trade value then ultimately trading Kobe for Andre Miller /etc :roll:

Never woulda happened...even in this fake ass scenario.

Jacks3

11-16-2011, 08:02 PM

creepingdeath

11-16-2011, 08:53 PM

Funny to see a Snaq bring up supporting casts though. Has anybody in history been as lucky as Snaq? Dude has played with a absurd amount of talent. He had stacked teams pretty much every year of his prime. :oldlol:
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l296/RustyNail31/moving%20pictures/2w3qlv7.gif

Jacks3

11-16-2011, 09:14 PM

lol hypothetical.

Lettuce look at REALITY:

10 55+ win seasons including two 65+ win seasons.
7 NBA Finals
5 NBA Championships

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

hammer2010

11-16-2011, 09:48 PM

http://i.qkme.me/kkw.jpg

Bandito

11-16-2011, 09:57 PM

I only think he could've win one ship in 01 because the Lakers wouldn't have an answer for Kobe and I don't think it would've been so easy for AI to play with Shaq against the Sixers D.

32Dayz

11-17-2011, 02:04 AM

Doesn't work like that. If the Sixers had Kobe instead of Iverson they'd have a totally different mindset in terms of building a team considering, you know, Kobe is a much better player than Iverson.

Funny to see a Snaq bring up supporting casts though. Has anybody in history been as lucky as Snaq? Dude has played with a absurd amount of talent. He had stacked teams pretty much every year of his prime. :oldlol:

lol.

That doesn't make much sense coming from a Kobe fan. :facepalm

Shaq was the best player on his team 13/14 Years and in 3 of his 4 Title Years.
Kobe was the best player on his team 5/14 Years and in 1 of his 5 Title Years.

Shaq had one good supporting Cast in the 90's (95) an average Cast in 00 and good Casts in 01 and 02.
Wow... what luck he had.

I'd count 03 and 04 also but Kobe was ruining the team at that point by trying to take over the 0ffense and that reflects in the Lakers no longer winning.

The_Yearning

11-17-2011, 02:18 AM

Kobe would be the all-time leading scorer by now, both playoffs and regular season. That much is for sure.

Deuce Bigalow

11-17-2011, 02:20 AM

That doesn't make much sense coming from a Kobe fan. :facepalm

Shaq was the best player on his team 13/14 Years and in 3 of his 4 Title Years.
Kobe was the best player on his team 5/14 Years and in 1 of his 5 Title Years.

Shaq had one good supporting Cast in the 90's (95) an average Cast in 00 and good Casts in 01 and 02.
Wow... what luck he had.

I'd count 03 and 04 also but Kobe was ruining the team at that point by trying to take over the 0ffense and that reflects in the Lakers no longer winning.

Just letting you know that nobody takes you seriously :oldlol:

32Dayz

11-17-2011, 02:21 AM

Just letting you know that I dont take you seriously because I am a huge Kobe Homer :oldlol:

It's cool Bro. :cheers:

BTW Love the new sig. :rockon:

Kobe's Teams.
97-04 : Shaq
05-09 : Kobe
10-11 : Gasol

Even in your world where Kobe was "clearly" better in 10 and 11 Kobe would still only have been the best player on his team in 7/14 Years.

Lucifer

11-17-2011, 02:26 AM

This thread is not about Iverson or Shaq.

If you want to discuss that please make a separate thread. :cheers:

Well for arguments sake Kobe would have to go through Shaq/Iverson's Laker you dumbarse. I think Kobe wins at in 08. Prime Kobe/Melo/Martin/Camby Jr off the bench :pimp:

32Dayz

11-17-2011, 02:29 AM

Well for arguments sake Kobe would have to go through Shaq/Iverson's Laker you dumbarse. I think Kobe wins at in 08. Prime Kobe/Melo/Martin/Camby Jr off the bench :pimp:

Alright.. relax man I didn't mean that to be offensive.

I agree with your opinion though.

Kobe's best shot would be in 08.
I dont see him having any chance at knocking off the stacked WCF in the early 00's with those 0ffensively inempt Philly teams.

Also Camby was the starter for that Denver team as Nene was injured that year.

Deuce Bigalow

11-17-2011, 02:31 AM

It's cool Bro. :cheers:

BTW Love the new sig. :rockon:

Kobe's Teams.
97-04 : Shaq
05-09 : Kobe
10-11 : Gasol

Even in your world where Kobe was "clearly" better in 10 and 11 Kobe would still only have been the best player on his team in 7/14 Years.

:banghead:

Deuce Bigalow

11-17-2011, 02:34 AM

Alright.. relax man I didn't mean that to be offensive.

I agree with your opinion though.

Kobe's best shot would be in 08.
I dont see him having any chance at knocking off the stacked WCF in the early 00's with those 0ffensively inempt Philly teams.

Also Camby was the starter for that Denver team as Nene was injured that year.

Peak Kobe having Webber and Ingudala has a shot too
and in '01 the sixers defense was great so thats another finals trip at worst

32Dayz

11-17-2011, 02:41 AM

Peak Kobe having Webber and Ingudala has a shot too
and in '01 the sixers defense was great so thats another finals trip at worst

Agree they make the Finals in 01 but they dont beat the stacked WCF Teams.
Maybe they could contend in 05 but I doubt it.
Webber was old and pretty much a shell of himself not to mention useless defensively.
05 was Iguodala's rookie season so its not like he'd be a huge benefit outside of playing some good wing defense and finishing on the break.
I cant see them beating them 05 Spurs.

Deuce Bigalow

11-17-2011, 02:43 AM

I just want to know that are you actually serious in thinking that Gasol was better than Kobe in 2010 and 2011?

32Dayz

11-17-2011, 02:53 AM

Even if I give Kobe the edge on the absurd notion that Gasol only plays well "because of Kobe" even though he has posted similar numbers earlier in his Career just on worse effeciency (which makes sense considering he was on a much worse team as the clear cut #1 offensive options for teams to focus in on entirely) I dont think the difference between the two in 2010-11 was very big.

Prime Kobe is >>> any version of Gasol.

But 2010 Kobe was no longer Prime Kobe, and 2010 Gasol was Prime/Peak Gasol.

I think its much closer then you think.

Players age.. I love Shaq but even I can admit in 06 Wade was more valuable then him. I dont think he was "far more valuable" but he clearly imo was more valuable.

ShaqAttack3234

11-17-2011, 03:00 AM

What's wrong with the OP? Does he have anything else on his mind?

He had stacked teams pretty much every year of his prime. :oldlol:

:oldlol:

1995- yes
1996- yes(though injuries to the team such as Grant, Anderson and Shaq and downright horrible play outside of Shaq/Penny vs Chicago made this look like hardly a stacked team)
1997- Maybe in terms of talent, but not built or coached all that well, but Shaq should've played better vs Utah, though
1998- Stacked team, but not built well or coached well. The cast crumbled vs Utah and Shaq was pretty much a one man team that series.
1999- No, but talented and Shaq should've played much better vs San Antonio
2000- No
2001- Not stacked, but he got a ton of help for a player of his caliber in the playoffs
2002- No
2003- No

32Dayz

11-17-2011, 03:03 AM

ShaqAttack3234

11-17-2011, 03:14 AM

Cmon Shaq-Attack.

Those Late 90's LA teams may have looked nice on paper but if your familiar with how those Casts performed in the playoffs particularly in the series they got eliminated in you'll see they are garbage.

The players he relied on to produce 0ffense
(Van Exel, Young Kobe, Rice, Jones) were absolutely horrendous in the Playoffs and could not hit a shot to save their lives.

Shaq was amazing in the 98 and 99 playoffs but his supporting Casts played terribly on both ends of the floor.

Same with 97 (except Oneal also played poorly that year) and in 96 the Magic traded away several key roleplayers and was dealing with injurys so I dont think Shaq had a particularly good supporting Cast that year.

I mentioned that about his casts in '97 and '98, very talented, but not built all that well and they didn't play up to their talent in the playoffs, particularly '98 vs Utah when they played like scrubs. Shaq was great in the '98 playoffs, but '99? What the hell? He played well vs Houston and then very poorly vs San Antonio. That was a dysfunctional team, but Shaq still has to be held accountable for playing far below his usual level vs San Antonio. Shaq's '99 season was lazy in general, actually.

I mentioned the injuries in '96 as well. Did you even read my post? I acknowledged the casts that were stacked in terms of talent, and included the other factors such as injuries, how they performed in the playoffs ect., but also when Shaq played poorly.

32Dayz

11-17-2011, 03:26 AM

You did mention the injurys and stuff, I wasn't criticizing you.

Shaq was pretty good in 99 but I suppose he could have played better.

Dont forget he was trying to carry the entire 0ffense for his team while going up against a Prime/Young Duncan and 99 DRob who was still pretty potent especially on the defensive end of the floor
(he was a 15/10/3 player that year).

I think Duncan was the best player in the 99 Series (Shaq a close 2nd) but only by a small margin and considering he had 99 DRob to help defend Shaq with I am not sure Shaq wasn't better then him that year.

Deuce Bigalow

11-17-2011, 03:48 AM

32Dayz

11-17-2011, 03:51 AM

Because it isnt even a question, just like 2010 between Kobe and Gasol

Haha.. whatever man.
The statistics say Gasol > Kobe in 2010.

He had Better or Equal production while also having better intangibles (Defense, 0ffensive rebounding) which were key to the Lakers title run.

I think its hard to say which of the two was more valuable but I personally lean towards Gasol. Either way the difference is incredibly small.

Lets agree to disagree. :cheers:

Deuce Bigalow

11-17-2011, 03:56 AM

2010 Playoffs
Kobe - 29.2 PPG, 6.0 RPG, 5.5 APG, 1.3 SPG, .458 FG%, .567 TS%
Pau - 19.6 PPG, 11.1 RPG, 3.5 APG, 2.1 BPG, .539 FG%, .599 TS%

2010 WCF
Kobe - 33.7 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 8.3 apg, 1.2 bpg, 0.8 apg. 52 FG%
Pau - 19.7 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 3.7 apg, 1.8 bpg, 0.2 apg, 57 FG%

2010 Finals
Kobe - 28.6 ppg, 8 rpg, 3.9 apg, 0.7 bpg, 2.1 spg, 41 FG%
Pau - 18.6 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 3.7 apg, 2.6 bpg, 0.7 spg, 48 FG%

http://www.femiajets.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/da4e317cbb3e0d55ae4444d54ccdbc68-getty-99856385mw134_nba_finals_ga.jpg

32Dayz

11-17-2011, 03:59 AM

2010 Playoffs
Kobe - 29.2 PPG, 6.0 RPG, 5.5 APG, 1.3 SPG, .439 FG%
Pau - 19.6 PPG, 11.1 RPG, 3.5 APG, 2.1 BPG, .539 FG%
Complete Wash

2010 Finals
Kobe - 28.6 ppg, 8 rpg, 3.9 apg, 0.7 bpg, 2.1 spg, 41 FG%
(100 Turnovers)

Pau - 18.6 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 3.8 apg, 2.6 bpg, 0.7 spg, 48 FG%
(10 Turnovers)
Complete Wash

Equal statistically over the playoffs and over the Finals but Gasol had better intangibles (Defense / 0ffensive rebounding) thus he was the better player.

Gasol better in
OKC Series
Boston Series

Kobe better in
Phoenix Series

Deuce Bigalow

11-17-2011, 04:00 AM

Deuce Bigalow

11-17-2011, 04:01 AM

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201004300OKC.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201005080UTA.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201005170LAL.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201005230PHO.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201005250PHO.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201005270LAL.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201005290PHO.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201006100BOS.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201006130BOS.html

I rest my case, It's just too obvious

32Dayz

11-17-2011, 04:03 AM

What is wrong with you?

You think cherry picking the games Kobe was better in strengthens your argument? You dont think I cant make a bigger list of the games Gasol was better then Kobe in?
:lol

1st Round : Gasol > Kobe
2nd Round : Gasol >= Kobe
WCF : Kobe > Gasol
Finalz : Gasol > Kobe

Finalz :
G1 : Gasol > Kobe
G2 : Gasol >>> Kobe
G3 : Kobe > Gasol
G4 : Kobe >= Gasol
G5 : Kobe >>> Gasol
G6 : Gasol > Kobe
G7 : Gasol >>> Kobe

Deuce Bigalow

11-17-2011, 04:04 AM

32Dayz

11-17-2011, 04:08 AM

:roll:
do it

Whats the point?
I can prove my arguments with stats and examples and prove to you that Gasol was better in more games but you'll just spam some funny GIF's or just highlight the games Kobe was better in and then leave. :facepalm

Kobe is one of the leagues poster boys so of course he is gonna get more credit then Gasol even if its undeserved.

Like I said earlier lets agree to disagree dude.. your never gonna convince me and obviously I cannot convince you.

:pimp:

Deuce Bigalow

11-17-2011, 04:09 AM

1st Round : Gasol > Kobe
2nd Round : Gasol >= Kobe
WCF : Kobe > Gasol
Finalz : Gasol > Kobe

Finalz :
G1 : Gasol > Kobe
G2 : Gasol >>> Kobe
G3 : Kobe > Gasol
G4 : Kobe >= Gasol
G5 : Kobe >>> Gasol
G6 : Gasol > Kobe
G7 : Gasol >>> Kobe

http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/lol/grand/aha_gif.gif

32Dayz

11-17-2011, 04:28 AM

1st Round VS OKC.

G1.
Gasol : 19 / 13 / 3 / 3BPG | 50% shooting
Kobe : 21 / 2 / 3 | 31% shooting
G1 = Gasol > Kobe

G2.
Gasol : 25 / 12 (5 0ffensive) / 2 | 57% shooting
Kobe : 39 / 5 / 1 | 42% shooting
G2 = Gasol > Kobe

G3.
Gasol : 17 / 15 / 6 / 2BPG | 58% shooting
Kobe : 24 / 4 / 8 | 34% shooting
G3 = Gasol > Kobe

G4.
Gasol : 13 / 4 / 3 | 50% shooting
Kobe : 12 / 3 / 4 | 50% shooting
G4 = Wash / Equal / Draw

G5.
Gasol : 25 / 11 / 5 | 63% shooting
Kobe : 13 / 3 / 7 | 44% shooting
G5 = Gasol > Kobe

G6.
Gasol : 9 / 18 / 3 / 2BPG | 36% shooting
Kobe : 32 / 7 / 3 | 48% shooting
G6 = Kobe > Gasol

1st Round Summary.
6 Games.
Gasol better in 4/6 Games
Kobe better in 1/6 Games
Gasol > Kobe in 1st Round.

I'll finish the other series soon to prove my point.

Deuce Bigalow

11-17-2011, 04:31 AM

Kobe in the Last 3 rounds of the 2010 Playoffs, after he got his knee drained

31.2 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 5.9 APG, 1.4 SPG, .471 FG%

Deuce Bigalow

11-17-2011, 04:38 AM

32Dayz

11-17-2011, 04:45 AM

2nd Round VS Utah.

G1.
Gasol : 25 / 12 / 4 / 5BPG | 60% shooting
Kobe : 31 / 3 / 4 | 63% shooting
G1 = Gasol > Kobe

G2.
Gasol : 22 / 15 (5 0ffensive) / 2 / 2BPG | 64% shooting
Kobe : 30 / 5 / 8 | 45% shooting
G2 = Gasol > Kobe

G3.
Gasol : 14 / 17 (7 0ffensive) / 3 / 2BPG | 50% shooting
Kobe : 35 / 4 / 7 | 54% shooting
G3 = Kobe > Gasol

G4.
Gasol : 33 / 14 (7 0ffensive) / 2 / 2BPG | 67% shooting
Kobe : 32 / 3 / 4 | 47% shooting
G4 = Gasol > Kobe

2nd Round Summary.
4 Games.
Gasol better in 3/4 Games
Kobe better in 1/4 Games
Gasol > Kobe in 2nd Round.

32Dayz

11-17-2011, 04:45 AM

How is 25/12 better than 39/5? :oldlol:

Check the overall stats and their scoring efficiency.
Its obvious who had the better game.
Zero argument for Kobe being better in that particular game.

Deuce Bigalow

11-17-2011, 04:55 AM

Check the overall stats and their scoring efficiency.
Its obvious who had the better game.
Zero argument for Kobe being better in that particular game.

Pau Gasol never had a 39 point game in a playoff game in his career (high is 36)

32Dayz

11-17-2011, 04:57 AM

Pau Gasol never had a 39 point game in a playoff game in his career (high is 36)

So?

25 Points on high efficiency with better all around production and defense is better then a 36-39 point game with worse overall production and much lower efficiency.

How many 25/18/5/5 games has Kobe had?

None.. so it go's both ways.

Deuce Bigalow

11-17-2011, 04:58 AM

2010 Playoffs
Kobe - 29.2 PPG, 6.0 RPG, 5.5 APG, 1.3 SPG, .458 FG%, .567 TS%
Pau - 19.6 PPG, 11.1 RPG, 3.5 APG, 2.1 BPG, .539 FG%, .599 TS%

2010 WCF
Kobe - 33.7 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 8.3 apg, 1.2 bpg, 0.8 apg. 52 FG%
Pau - 19.7 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 3.7 apg, 1.8 bpg, 0.2 apg, 57 FG%

2010 Finals
Kobe - 28.6 ppg, 8 rpg, 3.9 apg, 0.7 bpg, 2.1 spg, 41 FG%
Pau - 18.6 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 3.7 apg, 2.6 bpg, 0.7 spg, 48 FG%

Kobe in the Last 3 rounds of the 2010 Playoffs, after he got his knee drained

31.2 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 5.9 APG, 1.4 SPG, .471 FG%

http://www.femiajets.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/da4e317cbb3e0d55ae4444d54ccdbc68-getty-99856385mw134_nba_finals_ga.jpg

I already summed this up a while ago, no need to waste your time bro

32Dayz

11-17-2011, 04:59 AM

I already summed this up a while ago, no need to waste your time bro

lol so far Gasol is better in 2/2 Rounds and I know he is better in the Boston series.

Your only argument for Kobe being better is

Derr.. he takes so many more shots so he scores more points that's why he better. :lol

SAKOTXA

11-17-2011, 05:02 AM

Check the overall stats and their scoring efficiency.
Its obvious who had the better game.
Zero argument for Kobe being better in that particular game.
It's obvious that you're stupid enough to compare a big man's field goal percentage to a slasher's.

7_cody

11-17-2011, 05:02 AM

Haha.. whatever man.
The statistics say Gasol > Kobe in 2010.

He had Better or Equal production while also having better intangibles (Defense, 0ffensive rebounding) which were key to the Lakers title run.

I think its hard to say which of the two was more valuable but I personally lean towards Gasol. Either way the difference is incredibly small.

Lets agree to disagree. :cheers:

Offensive rebounding is not an intangible. Anyone that thinks Gasol has/is/was ever better than Kobe is probably a poser that likes to believe he's some kind of basketball guru. Trust me, I can clearly see your lack of knowledge. But it's alright, I'm impatient and I do a poor job teaching things.

Deuce Bigalow

11-17-2011, 05:03 AM

lol so far Gasol is better in 2/2 Rounds and I know he is better in the Boston series.

Your only argument for Kobe being better is

Derr.. he takes so many more shots so he scores more points that's why he better. :lol

http://i.neoseeker.com/mgv/173169-Kevin/169/47/facepalm_display.gif

32Dayz

11-17-2011, 05:04 AM

Offensive rebounding is not an intangible. Anyone that thinks Gasol has/is/was ever better than Kobe is probably a poser that likes to believe he's some kind of basketball guru. Trust me, I can clearly see your lack of knowledge. But it's alright, I'm impatient and I do a poor job teaching things.

Gasol is one of the best basketball players in the world and was probably a top 5 leaguewide player in 2010.

Anyone who thinks 2010 Kobe was clearly better then 2010 Gasol is simply a Kobe homer who is unable to accept that a non Prime Kobe is not superior to Prime Gasol.

Deuce Bigalow

11-17-2011, 05:07 AM

Gasol is one of the best basketball players in the world and was probably a top 5 leaguewide player in 2010.

Anyone who thinks 2010 Kobe was clearly better then 2010 Gasol is simply a Kobe homer who is unable to accept that a non Prime Kobe is not superior to Prime Gasol.

Kobe
Lebron
Wade
Dwight
Dirk
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Carmelo
Nash

are all clearly better than Gasol in '10

And everybody knows Kobe was better than Gasol in '10, not just homers

7_cody

11-17-2011, 05:07 AM

Gasol is one of the best basketball players in the world and was probably a top 5 leaguewide player in 2010.

Anyone who thinks 2010 Kobe was clearly better then 2010 Gasol is simply a Kobe homer who is unable to accept that a non Prime Kobe is not superior to Prime Gasol.

Once again you overrate Gasol. I can't believe how good you think he is.

32Dayz

11-17-2011, 05:09 AM

Lebron
Wade
Dwight
Dirk / Gasol / Kobe / Chris Paul

Fixed.

Deuce Bigalow

11-17-2011, 05:10 AM

and Kobe was in his last year of his prime in 2010

Kobe in the Last 3 rounds of the 2010 Playoffs, after he got his knee drained

31.2 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 5.9 APG, 1.4 SPG, .471 FG%

thats prime numbers

7_cody

11-17-2011, 05:11 AM

Fixed.

You have Gasol ranked with Dirk?!??!

How about you go watch all 82 2010 games, like I did, and then tell me straight in my face that Gasol is a top 5 player.

jesus, quit overrating him so hard.

Deuce Bigalow

11-17-2011, 05:12 AM

Fixed.

Oh God

7_cody

11-17-2011, 05:13 AM

and Kobe was in his last year of his prime in 2010

Kobe in the Last 3 rounds of the 2010 Playoffs, after he got his knee drained

31.2 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 5.9 APG, 1.4 SPG, .471 FG%

thats prime numbers

Not only that, but his impact on the game and the pressure he puts on the defense... but yeah, Gasol couldn't sniff those numbers. Sure, he could score 12 points if his teammates set up him. There's a reason why Gasol doesn't just go to work in the post, create his own shot every time and put up 25 + PPG. He can't do it. However, the Lakers are smart enough to use a big that can catch and shoot. We create every shot for him.

32Dayz

11-17-2011, 05:13 AM

You have Gasol ranked with Dirk?!??!

How about you go watch all 82 2010 games, like I did, and then tell me straight in my face that Gasol is a top 5 player.

jesus, quit overrating him so hard.

How is he overrated when even Bigelow (A Gasol Hater) ranks him in the Top 7.

How is he overrated when he was clearly better in the OKC series and at worst was equal to Kobe in the Utah series.

How many PF's in the league in 2010 could give you 20/10/3.5/2 on high efficiency while being also being a good defensive anchor?
Do you think those type of players are common?

7_cody

11-17-2011, 05:15 AM

How is he overrated when even Bigelow (A Gasol Hater) ranks him in the Top 7.

How many PF's in the league in 2010 could give you 20/10/3.5/2 on high efficiency while being also being a good defensive anchor?
Do you think those type of players are common?

A lot of bigs can put up those numbers with the Lakers if they have the same skillset and IQ as Pau Gasol, such as his ability to catch and shoot, and his great off ball movement. Pau Gasol is a smart player, an ultimate team player, and he's always in the right place (when he's trying). This makes it very easy for us to create shots for him.

Deuce Bigalow

11-17-2011, 05:16 AM

How is he overrated when even Bigelow (A Gasol Hater) ranks him in the Top 7.

How is he overrated when he was clearly better in the OKC series and at worst was equal to Kobe in the Utah series.

How many PF's in the league in 2010 could give you 20/10/3.5/2 on high efficiency while being also being a good defensive anchor?
Do you think those type of players are common?

I am not a gasol hater :oldlol:
I love Gasol

and I ranked him 10th, maybe 8th

Kobe
Lebron
Wade
Dwight
Dirk
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Carmelo
Nash