Why did the Sixers trade Charles Barkley to the Suns in '92

[Duncan21formvp]

Was watching a playoff game of Barkley back in 1991 and remember how dominant the guy was which prompted me to realize why the Sixers would trade someone of his caliber in the first place a year later in the summer.

Does anyone remember exactly why did the Sixers trade Charles Barkley to the Suns in the summer of '92?

Was Barkley asking out to go elsewhere and saying once his contract was up he was going to leave? Does anyone remember?


Here was the trade details


June 17, 1992: Charles Barkley was Traded by the Philadelphia 76ers to the Phoenix Suns for Jeff Hornacek, Andrew Lang and Tim Perry

[Kblaze8855]

He had asked out a year or two earlier I believe. He wanted out bad. Ive heard him say it was some of the best news he had ever heard.

He didnt ask to go to the Suns but he wanted out of Philly if they didnt get him help. he didnt know who he was going to till the trade happened. But he was pretty sure to go to a good team(they won like 55 the year before) because if not he would have still been trying to get out.

[Big164]

Allen Iverson > Charles Barkley


The more I learn about Charles the more he seems like the most over-rated player of all time. A great player wouldve willed the sixers to a conference finals like AI did. Charles is clearly not on that level and needed to ride the amazing Kevin Johnson in order to finally get deep in a postseason.

[JMT]

The Sixers were stuck in perpetual mediocrity at the time, winning about 35 games in Charles last season there. He had no help and management wasn't willing to spend any money to get him some. He had been bugging them for a trade for almost two years, and it had become an incredible distraction.

The Malone trade flopped, and Doc's retirement left the Sixers woefully short on talent. Despite that, Barkley played incredibbly well. Should have been MVP in 89-90; received more first place votes than Magic, but lost the overall vote. Not surprising; at that time he wasn't the media darling he became later in his career.

[Yung D-Will]

Allen Iverson > Charles Barkley


The more I learn about Charles the more he seems like the most over-rated player of all time. A great player wouldve willed the sixers to a conference finals like AI did. Charles is clearly not on that level and needed to ride the amazing Kevin Johnson in order to finally get deep in a postseason.
Based on what the fact he tried to win in philly? Because there's litteraly nothing else.

Charles was basiclly better in every aspect of the game and signifigently more efficent whiles drawing more double teams than Ai ever did

[Kblaze8855]

Ride KJ to playoff success? In 93 he somewhat worked the Lakers, then literally shut the doors on the spurs arena when he made the series winner over Drob, and handed out 40 point triple doubles owning the sonics. KJ didnt even arguably play as well as barkley till 94 and 95 when they went out vs the Rockets. And Barkley put up 28/13/5 and 26/13/3 in those playoffs himself.

barkley never rode KJ anywhere. The only year they did anything Barkley is the one who took them there.

[Kurosawa0]

Allen Iverson > Charles Barkley

Not remotely.

[PHILA]

Loose Balls: Easy Money, Hard Fouls, Cheap Laughs, and True Love in the NBA - Jayson Williams

Before signing me up, the Sixers' top guys met with me in a Midtown hotel in New York City. They heard I was fat, out of shape. They were worried about the broken foot, too. It was Harold Katz, then the owner, and Gene Shue, then the general manager. They wanted me to run up and down the hotel ballroom. They thought I might be damaged goods. I told 'em I understood their concerns, but I had a better idea. Instead of running up and down in a damn ballroom, why didn't I run up and down on a basketball court for them? I said, "We can go to a park by my house." They thought it was a great idea and we agreed to go on down there.

Harold and Gene didn't know it, but the park we were going to was down on the Lower East Side, right next to the school I went to, P.S. 137. And before we drove down there, I called the principal, and I told him what's happening.

So when we got to the park, he's let the whole school out early, and there's nine hundred kids in the park, surrounding the court, hanging on the chain-link fence, screaming and yelling and cheering, "Williams! Williams! Williams! Williams!."

And I'm running and dunking and jumping, up and down and up and down. I'm flying! It's like one of those bad made-for-TV movies. I mean, I'm two feet above the rim, scraping my elbows on metal. And the kids are screaming and Harold and Gene are happy about the whole thing. They're talking to each other.

"Holy smokes!" they're saying. "We got a steal with this guy!"

Harold and Gene spent the next two years watching me miss layups, stumble around, saying, "What the heck happened at that park? Was that an optical illusion or what?"

They told Charles Barkley they were confused, because they'd seen me playing about two feet above the rim.

Charlie says, "You seen who? Doing what? When?"

What Harold and Gene and Charlie didn't know is that the basket at that park is only nine feet high.

[eliteballer]

Sad part is Williams was playing like that for the Nets. You gotta feel for Barkley. Lost to the Bulls, then to the Rockets in back to back 7 game series.

[Big164]

Ride KJ to playoff success? In 93 he somewhat worked the Lakers, then literally shut the doors on the spurs arena when he made the series winner over Drob, and handed out 40 point triple doubles owning the sonics. KJ didnt even arguably play as well as barkley till 94 and 95 when they went out vs the Rockets. And Barkley put up 28/13/5 and 26/13/3 in those playoffs himself.

barkley never rode KJ anywhere. The only year they did anything Barkley is the one who took them there.

Phoenix was a playoff team before Chuck even arrived and KJ was its leader.

KJ even made the playoffs after CHuck left the suns!

Im not saying KJ is on par with Charles but KJ is a better player than anyone Iverson had on the 76ers.

[DMV2]

Allen Iverson > Charles Barkley


The more I learn about Charles the more he seems like the most over-rated player of all time. A great player wouldve willed the sixers to a conference finals like AI did. Charles is clearly not on that level and needed to ride the amazing Kevin Johnson in order to finally get deep in a postseason.
Late 80's Celtics, Pistons, Bulls, Cavs >>>>>> 2000's Pistons and an aging 2000's Pacers team. Barkley's Sixers went up against much better competition.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Barkley wanted out of Philly, and he was 29 while Philly had a bad team and no real chance of building a good team while his best years were still around. Charles didn't want to be there, he was trashing teammates in the press, saying the team was bad and causing some problems off the court around that time. It made sense for both sides as Charles obviously wanted to play on a contender before his prime was over and the team finished 35-47 with Charles having the worst season of his prime.

It's a shame that the one prime season where he was on a contender, he takes them to the best record in the league with KJ missing 30+ games and not as productive as usual, takes them to the finals and then runs into the Bulls with Jordan averaging 41. He was never the same after '93 with injuries taking more away from his game and consistency, which is too bad because the '94 Suns and '95 Suns gave him more support than the '93, and certainly more than any of his Philly teams.

[Duncan21formvp]

Barkley wanted out of Philly, and he was 29 while Philly had a bad team and no real chance of building a good team while his best years were still around. Charles didn't want to be there, he was trashing teammates in the press, saying the team was bad and causing some problems off the court around that time. It made sense for both sides as Charles obviously wanted to play on a contender before his prime was over and the team finished 35-47 with Charles having the worst season of his prime.

It's a shame that the one prime season where he was on a contender, he takes them to the best record in the league with KJ missing 30+ games and not as productive as usual, takes them to the finals and then runs into the Bulls with Jordan averaging 41. He was never the same after '93 with injuries taking more away from his game and consistency, which is too bad because the '94 Suns and '95 Suns gave him more support than the '93, and certainly more than any of his Philly teams.

One thing I can appreciate about Barkley is the only times he lost as the favorite in a playoff series were against the two guys who were better than him. 1993 to MJ and 1995 to Hakeem.

[Round Mound]

Allen Iverson > Charles Barkley


The more I learn about Charles the more he seems like the most over-rated player of all time. A great player wouldve willed the sixers to a conference finals like AI did. Charles is clearly not on that level and needed to ride the amazing Kevin Johnson in order to finally get deep in a postseason.

:facepalm

[Smoke117]

It doesn't help when you spit into a crowd and hit a little girl in the face like he did in march 1991. It's really kind of amusing how charles has become this lovable buffoon figure because he was fairly controversial during the prime of his career with his run ins and antics and what not. By the time he left Philly it was just a bad situation and time to move on to greener pastures.

[Smoke117]

:facepalm

lol, Round Mound you may be all over charles nuts day and night, but man, My face palm almost mirrored yours when I read that, but than I read this guys name and was like...who the **** is this guy this and why should I or anyone even give a 2nd thought to what he has to say? This guy is a clown. Allen Iverson > Charles Barkley!? This should go straight to that dumbest shit you've ever heard on ISH list.

[Round Mound]

One thing I can appreciate about Barkley is the only times he lost as the favorite in a playoff series were against the two guys who were better than him. 1993 to MJ and 1995 to Hakeem.

Indeed at total MJ and Hakeem where better but let me say that 1987-93 Barkley was the 2nd Best Player in the League after MJ. From 1993 on to 1995 the Best Players where MJ and Hakeem.

For those dissing on Barkley lets not forget that in 1993 the Suns missed KJ for 49 Games and the Suns had a Higher Winning% Without Him.

KJ did show up in 95 but Barkley was breaking down from 1994 on.

[Round Mound]

lol, Round Mound you may be all over charles nuts day and night, but man, My face palm almost mirrored yours when I read that, but than I read this guys name and was like...who the **** is this guy this and why should I or anyone even give a 2nd thought to what he has to say? This guy is a clown. Allen Iverson > Charles Barkley!? This should go straight to that dumbest shit you've ever heard on ISH list.

I am not on Chucks nuts I am here just to stop the Underrating this player has been recieving for years when he was along MJ the probable 2 Best Players from 1987 to 1993.

Indeed Allen Iverson was probably the Least Efficient Scorer of All Time. He Shot 40% on like 25 FGAs PG. Its pathetic. Selfish Player!!!

Its a sin to name Iverson in the conversation with Barkley

[Smoke117]

I am not on Chucks nuts I am here just to stop the Underrating this player has been recieving for years when he was along MJ the probable 2 Best Players from 1987 to 1993.

Indeed Allen Iverson was probably the Least Efficient Scorer of All Time. He Shot 40% on like 25 FGAs PG. Its pathetic. Selfish Player!!!

Its a sin to name Iverson in the conversation with Barkley

Well At least you know what you are talking about when it comes to Iverson and for that You are the Man. I've never underrated Charles Barkley. He's a 12-20 player of all time. I don't want to get into it further than that rank wise as it gets tough, but I mean I dunno how you can call someone underrated when he's 12-20 bro? That looks pretty good to me.

[Duncan21formvp]

Indeed at total MJ and Hakeem where better but let me say that 1987-93 Barkley was the 2nd Best Player in the League after MJ. From 1993 on to 1995 the Best Players where MJ and Hakeem.

For those dissing on Barkley lets not forget that in 1993 the Suns missed KJ for 49 Games and the Suns had a Higher Winning% Without Him.

KJ did show up in 95 but Barkley was breaking down from 1994 on.

Are you saying for the collective 6 years Barkley was 2nd?

[Duncan21formvp]

I don't see how they were a bad franchise when they pretty much had stars on the team thru the 80's for the whole decade.

My biggest issue is how the hell did they not make the playoffs in 1992 when most of there starters were there for the entire season.

[guy]

Does anyone know what other teams were trying to get Barkley at the time? What the rumors were?

[Big164]

Its a sin to name Iverson in the conversation with Barkley

Iverson led the most inferior team in NBA history to a finals and actually shocked the Lakers on their own court. Barkley has never shown such bold leadership and he had far more to work with.

1994 SUPER Suns

Charles Barkley 27 ppg in playoffs
Kevin Johnson 26 ppg in playoffs
Danny ainge
Dan Majerly
AC Green
Cedric Ceballos

Are you kidding me? Insert Garnett or any decent sf or PF and that team wins a ring. Barkley is just not up to the task.

[Duncan21formvp]

Iverson led the most inferior team in NBA history to a finals and actually shocked the Lakers on their own court. Barkley has never shown such bold leadership and he had far more to work with.

1994 SUPER Suns

Charles Barkley 27 ppg in playoffs
Kevin Johnson 26 ppg in playoffs
Danny ainge
Dan Majerly
AC Green
Cedric Ceballos

Are you kidding me? Insert Garnett or any decent sf or PF and that team wins a ring. Barkley is just not up to the task.

Unless that PF is Duncan, no other PF is going to outplay Hakeem that year. Hell in 1995 Malone lost to Hakeem in round 1, Barkley in round 2 and both of them had HCA over Hakeem. And then Robinson had HCA over Hakeem as well.

[Big164]

Unless that PF is Duncan, no other PF is going to outplay Hakeem that year. Hell in 1995 Malone lost to Hakeem in round 1, Barkley in round 2 and both of them had HCA over Hakeem. And then Robinson had HCA over Hakeem as well.


Ill give you that Hakeem is better than Barkley. But Hakeem had no team mates as good as prime Kevin Johnson. Suns> Rockets.

Hakeem won because he geled with his team better. He is a true leader and his team bought into him. Barkley is an a**hole

[Round Mound]

Iverson led the most inferior team in NBA history to a finals and actually shocked the Lakers on their own court. Barkley has never shown such bold leadership and he had far more to work with.

1994 SUPER Suns

Charles Barkley 27 ppg in playoffs
Kevin Johnson 26 ppg in playoffs
Danny ainge
Dan Majerly
AC Green
Cedric Ceballos

Are you kidding me? Insert Garnett or any decent sf or PF and that team wins a ring. Barkley is just not up to the task.

:facepalm

Excuse me kiddo in 1993 Barkley took that Suns Team for 62 Wins and You Forget that KJ only played 49 Games that Season and the Suns Had a Higher Winning% WITHOUT KJ. With KJ Playing The Team LOST MORE.

Oh and Yeah KJ did not show up for the 1993 Finals:

17.2 PPG on 42.1% FG and 6. 5 APG (very bad for a Top 10 PG)

While Barkley scored 27.3 PPG on 47.6% FG with an Injured Elbow (since Game 2), 13.0 RPG and 5.5 APG (1 Assist Less Per Game than the PG)

Garnett would do nothing without KJ for 49 Games. Let alone win 62 Games.

KJ was a Great Defender but Offensively he was Better as a 2nd Option than the 1st Option. While Barkley was a Ture 1st Option and was the Player that Recieved More Double Teaming (and in the Mid Range Region) since Shaq`s later years.

[HurricaneKid]

My favorite Chuck story:

A guy was giving him the business at a bar and Chuck threw him through the front window. The guy sued him.

Judge: "Your sanctions are community service and a fine, do you have any regrets?"
Charles: "Yeah I regret we weren't on a higher floor"


Here are some other GREAT BARKLEY QUOTES:

Top 50 Charles Barkley Quotes

Charles Barkley is one of the most controversial and funniest athletes to ever play a sport. Here are his 50 funniest quotes of all time.

50. "I can be bought. If they paid me enough, I'd work for the Klan."

49. "You got to believe in yourself. Hell, I believe I'm the best-looking guy in the world and I might be right."

48. "I don't hate anyone, at least not for more than 48 minutes, barring overtime."

47. "We better not be doing the Bulls this year. Man, they suck! Bunch of high school kids with $70 million contracts. Damn! I hate my mother for having me too soon."

46. "You can talk without saying a thing. I don't ever want to be that type of person."

45. After retiring from basketball "I'm just what America needs - another unemployed black man.

44. Ernie: "Did they recognize you in South Dakota?"
Charles: "Yes, they did. It was easy because I was the only black person there. When they see me walking down the street they say 'There he goes again'. And when I come back the next year they say 'He's back yawl!'"

43. Right after Peja won the 3-point contest: "Kenny said it was going to be an all-international night. I want to know which international brother is going to win the slam dunk contest."

42. On the Enron scandal investigation: "Almost all those politicians took money from Enron, and there they are holding hearings. That's like O.J. Simpson getting in the Rae Carruth jury pool."

41. "I had to explain to my daughter why that skank Monica Lewinski has an hour special on HBO this weekend."

40. Ernie: "Auburn is a pretty good school. To graduate from there I suppose you really need to work hard and put forth maximum effort."
Charles: "20 pts and 10 rebounds will get you through also!"

39. "Every time I think about changing a diaper, I run a little bit harder and a little bit faster to make sure I can afford a nanny until my daughter's old enough to take care of that herself."

38. EJ: "Did you graduate from Auburn?"
Charles: "No, but I have a couple people working for me who did."

37. "Dick Bavetta and Moses parted the Red Sea together."

36. Ernie Johnson, on Reggie Evans being caught grabbing the rocks of Chris Kaman: "(Reggie Evans) got caught with his hand in the cookie jar."Charles Barkley: "Ernie, I don't know where you get your cookies at but the rest of us don't get ours there."

35. On his 17-year old daughter not dating yet: "Thank goodness. I just hope she doesn't start before I go in the Hall of Fame. That way, I won't have to kill anybody before I get inducted."

34. Kenny: "There's guys who go over to Europe and play overseas from America, and they dominate!"
Charles: "Those are called 'brothers'

33. After Wang has a shot blocked: "He's got to bring something stronger than that. That's like bringing milk to a bar, it's not strong enough"

32. Barkley on Turner Sports office having a betting pool on his weight: "That is starting to hurt my feelings. I don't mind skinny people making fun of me, we all do that, but I don't want fat people making fun of me."

31. "We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good."

30. When the Dream Team was about to play the Angola national team, during pre-game interviews the other USA players provided diplomatic, face saving comments about how they would play hard and felt strongly they would win. When Chuck was asked about Angola and the game, he replied: "They're in a lot of trouble."

29. Charles Barkley on his thoughts about retiring before the season: "I remember sitting down with the Rockets and saying, 'Yeah. I'm going to retire.' They said, 'Well, we'll give you $9 million.' And I said, 'You got a pen on you?'"

28. Man, everything gets blamed on the Clintons, every single thing in this world. I think Bill Clinton shot JFK, too.

27. "I know why his name is DMX. Because his real name is Earl. Imagine if his name was Earl the rapper."

26. "If you go out with a girl and they say she has a great personality, she's ugly. If they tell you a guy works hard, he can't play a lick. Same thing."

25. After Kevin Garnett threw a ball into the crowd out of frustration and was ejected. They showed footage of the man that got hit by the ball being taken away in a stretcher and his daughter was crying. Charles commented that players take passes to the face all the time. He topped it off by saying: "You know why that little girl's crying? It's because she's thinking 'my daddy's a wussy'".

24. Barkley on Ernie Johnson and Kenny Smith eating a box of hot Krispy Kreme donuts in front of him: “Both of y’all are2 going to hell for that. Y’all are going to hell with a first-class ticket. Is that how you treat your partner? Krispy Kreme might be the greatest invention in the history of civilization when they’re hot. Y’all are cruel man.”

23. "It's kinda great to see the Celtics doin well again cuz that was so much fun in my day to go to the Boston Garden and they spit at you and throw things at you and talk about your mom. It sounds like dinner at Kenny Smith's house."

22. "I think that the team that wins game five will win the series. Unless we lose game five."

21. Charles Barkley after seeing a picture of Sam Cassell on the screen: "Phone home." And later he remarks to Kenny, "Sam Cassell is a good guy, but he's not going to wind up on the cover of GQ anytime soon."

20. While watching someone in Australia put $1 million worth of rubies on a table: "Damn, must not be any black folks in Australia. You can't just leave $1 million worth of jewelry lying around the 'hood."

19. Asked if he had ever been in the governor's office in Montgomery, Barkley said no. "They don't let many black people in the governor's mansion in Alabama," he said, "unless they're cleaning."

18. On the goal of the '92 Olympic Dream Team when playing Panama in the Tournament of the Americas: "To get the Canal back."

17. To Kenny: "Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too close, kissin his!"

16. Barkley on Hanno Mottola, who, as EJ remarked "is the first NBA player from Finland". Charles replies: "Of course he is the first NBA player from Finland, he's the only person in Finland."

15. On supersized Oliver Miller: "You can't even jump high enough to touch the rim, unless they put a Big Mac on it."

14. "All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine."

13. On North Carolina missing 22 of its last 23 shots in losing to Georgetown in the NCAA tournament last weekend: "Stevie Wonder could make one of 23 shots."

12. I'd never buy my girl a watch... she's already got a clock over the stove.

11. "I always laugh when people ask me about rebounding techniques. I've got a technique. It's called just go get the damn ball."

10. On the Portland Trail Blazers (back when they were known as the Jail Blazers) serving Thanksgiving meals: "In between arrests they do community service."

9. "Yeah Ernie, its called defense, I mean I wouldn't know anything about it personally but I've heard about it through the grapevine.

8. "Well, when I went off to college, the guys I used to hang with were pumping gas and voting Democrat. Today they're still pumping gas and voting Democrat. Guess the Democrats didn't do much for them."

7. "When I was recruited at Auburn [university], they took me to a strip joint. When I saw those titties on Buffy, I knew that Auburn met my academic requirements."

6. "Hey Stanley, you could be a great player if you learned just two words: I'm full."— Barkley yelling to 300-plus-pound Houston Rockets teammate Stanley Roberts

5. "I heard Tonya Harding is calling herself the Charles Barkley of figure skating. I was going to sue her for defamation of character, but then I realized I have no character."

4. On the All-Star Game: "Hell, there ain't but 15 black millionaires in the whole country & half of 'em are right here in this room."

3. On Jerry Krause still being able to keep his job as GM of the Chicago Bulls: "Jerry Krause must have pictures of his boss's wife having sex with a monkey."

2. After throwing a guy through a 1st floor window in a bar Charles was in front of the judge.
Judge: "Your sanctions are community service and a fine, do you have any regrets?"
Charles: "Yeah I regret we weren't on a higher floor"


1. After an Olympic Dream Team victory over Angola, in which they won 116-48, Charles got into a physical altercation with a member of Angola towards the end of the game, afterwards he says.


"Somebody hits me, I'm going to hit him back. Even if it does look like he hasn't eaten in a couple weeks. I thought he was going to pull a spear on me."

[Jasper]

It was ok with ISH fans that Barkley cry babied out of the organization by forcing a trade like so many elite players have done over history

While Lebron as a free agent , was black listed by the same fan base.

-----------------
I think you get my point.

Barkley was a real asZ-hole at the time. He was in a few fights (bar fights) during this time , and even an issue about spouse beating .. .

Bottom line like so many posters stated , 6'rs thought Barkley could carry the team to a ring on his own , as did the Cav's and Lebron.

As history has proved :
lakers : Jabbar , majic , Worthy
West , Wilt , Goodrich
Shaq , Fish , Kobe


Even with Chambers , Johnson , Barkley (Barkley still couldn't do it)
Drexler , Akeem , Barkley (Barkley still couldn't do it)

[guy]

It was ok with ISH fans that Barkley cry babied out of the organization by forcing a trade like so many elite players have done over history

While Lebron as a free agent , was black listed by the same fan base.

-----------------
I think you get my point.

Barkley was a real asZ-hole at the time. He was in a few fights (bar fights) during this time , and even an issue about spouse beating .. .

Bottom line like so many posters stated , 6'rs thought Barkley could carry the team to a ring on his own , as did the Cav's and Lebron.

As history has proved :
lakers : Jabbar , majic , Worthy
West , Wilt , Goodrich
Shaq , Fish , Kobe


Even with Chambers , Johnson , Barkley (Barkley still couldn't do it)
Drexler , Akeem , Barkley (Barkley still couldn't do it)

If the Cavs weren't willing to spend for a contender, I don't think anyone would've blamed Lebron for leaving or even demanding a trade.

[GOBB]

The fact we didnt get Kevin Johnson in the trade was retarded. So pissed. Shouldve been KJ, Thunder Dan atleast. Ripoff trade. :facepalm

[Round Mound]

Charles Barkley`s Best Years Where With the Sixers.

Sixers where only a player or so to battle the Bulls and Also With the Suns but just imagine facing Mj and Pippen. Pippen Alone > Better Than Any Other Sixer or Sun Not Named Barkley and ofcourse they had Grant too.

Had Duncan, Garnett, Kobe, Dirk etc Played in the 80s or 90s They Would Have No Ring to Account. Especially If they Played with a Weak Cast like Charles did from 87 to 92.

[Big164]

Those 50 quotes explain why chuck is ringless. He's an unserious clown and self depricating jerk. Who would want to be around that?

Mj was a jerk too but he was also a natural leader and the hardest worker. There was a purpose behind his cruelness. Mj was a dictator while Charles was just a di..

[Round Mound]

Those 50 quotes explain why chuck is ringless. He's an unserious clown and self depricating jerk. Who would want to be around that?

Mj was a jerk too but he was also a natural leader and the hardest worker. There was a purpose behind his cruelness. Mj was a dictator while Charles was just a di..

Excuse me but Barkley had a Higher Winning% than Jordan from 87 to 93 and that with less teamates than Jordan. Its fact that the Emotional Leader of the Bulls was Pippen. He was the one that talked to his teamates, get them calmed down, he was a 1st Create and then Score Player that could guard 4 Positions, Dribble and Create like a Guard and Finish Off like the Best of SFs

Jordan was the one insulting directly to all of his teamates and Pippen and Jackson where the ones that where the leaders, calming everyone down, motivating them.

MJ was a REAL JERK and Pippen and Grant saved his life.

No wonder that in 1993-94 when he left ALL PLAYERS SHOT A HIGHER FG%, PIPPEN HAD A MONSTER YEAR 4TH IN PER, TOP IN DRT, AVERAGE NEARLY 9 REBOUNDS ETC.

They won 55 Games...Just 2 Less than With Jordan.

Jordan when he wanted to return said "If I Dont Play With Pippen I Wont Play for the Bulls"

Thats a Leader? He was no Leader to me. A Leader knows how to Talk to his Teamates to Get Them Fired Up...Pippen was the One Doing that While Everyone Complained on Jordan. Cartwright threated To Beat Him Up cause of his REAL JERK PERSONALITY

Barkley had a Much More Team Oriented Personalty than Jordan.

He was a Jerk if you got in his way...and so where many but he was carrying and laguable dude too.

[Smoke117]

Excuse me but Barkley had a Higher Winning% than Jordan from 87 to 93 and that with less teamates than Jordan. Its fact that the Emotional Leader of the Bulls was Pippen. He was the one that talked to his teamates, get them calmed down, he was a 1st Create and then Score Player that could guard 4 Positions, Dribble and Create like a Guard and Finish Off like the Best of SFs

Jordan was the one insulting directly to all of his teamates and Pippen and Jackson where the ones that where the leaders, calming everyone down, motivating them.

MJ was a REAL JERK and Pippen and Grant saved his life.

No wonder that in 1993-94 when he left ALL PLAYERS SHOT A HIGHER FG%, PIPPEN HAD A MONSTER YEAR 4TH IN PER, TOP IN DRT, AVERAGE NEARLY 9 REBOUNDS ETC.

They won 55 Games...Just 2 Less than With Jordan.

Jordan when he wanted to return said "If I Dont Play With Pippen I Wont Play for the Bulls"

Thats a Leader? He was no Leader to me. A Leader knows how to Talk to his Teamates to Get Them Fired Up...Pippen was the One Doing that While Everyone Complained on Jordan. Cartwright threated To Beat Him Up cause of his REAL JERK PERSONALITY

Barkley had a Much More Team Oriented Personalty than Jordan.

He was a Jerk if you got in his way...and so where many but he was carrying and laguable dude too.

These things are pretty much all true. It's like I've been saying. Pippen was pretty much the leader of the Bulls. Jordan has even said it himself that he was never really a vocal player. It's pretty much true too that when he did speak that the only thing he really had to say was negative. Scottie was the one who was positive and if you were having an off night would try to get you a shot and would pat you on the back and beyond that he directed the offense and the defense. He WAS THE VOCAL LEADER ON THE FLOOR. Michael Jordan may have been the one dropping 30 or so points, but Scottie Pippen was the one telling people what to do and where to be, he was the one LEADING. It's like a submarine captain with nucs. Jordan was the Nucs...those ultimate weapons of destruction...but Scottie was the skipper, the Submarine Captain who ran the show.

[Round Mound]

These things are pretty much all true. It's like I've been saying. Pippen was pretty much the leader of the Bulls. Jordan has even said it himself that he was never really a vocal player. It's pretty much true too that when he did speak that the only thing he really had to say was negative. Scottie was the one who was positive and if you were having an off night would try to get you a shot and would pat you on the back and beyond that he directed the offense and the defense. He WAS THE VOCAL LEADER ON THE FLOOR. Michael Jordan may have been the one dropping 30 or so points, but Scottie Pippen was the one telling people what to do and where to be, he was the one LEADING. It's like a submarine captain with nucs. Jordan was the Nucs...those ultimate weapons of destruction...but Scottie was the skipper, the Submarine Captain who ran the show.

:applause: There are so many people that didnt even watch the NBA in those times and they are talking like they know alot. Get Real...Everyone who watched those games knows that Pippen was the Best Team Leader.

[kentatm]

Allen Iverson > Charles Barkley


The more I learn about Charles the more he seems like the most over-rated player of all time. A great player wouldve willed the sixers to a conference finals like AI did. Charles is clearly not on that level and needed to ride the amazing Kevin Johnson in order to finally get deep in a postseason.

:facepalm

calling Barkley overrated after saying AI was a better player?

you have no brain for basketball.

[Cali Syndicate]

Allen Iverson > Charles Barkley


The more I learn about Charles the more he seems like the most over-rated player of all time. A great player wouldve willed the sixers to a conference finals like AI did. Charles is clearly not on that level and needed to ride the amazing Kevin Johnson in order to finally get deep in a postseason.

15 straight seasons averaging a double double with 11 straight averaging 20 and 10. Go find any other player that even comes close to that kind of production and ask yourself if any of them are overrated.

[Duncan21formvp]

Excuse me but Barkley had a Higher Winning% than Jordan from 87 to 93 and that with less teamates than Jordan. Its fact that the Emotional Leader of the Bulls was Pippen. He was the one that talked to his teamates, get them calmed down, he was a 1st Create and then Score Player that could guard 4 Positions, Dribble and Create like a Guard and Finish Off like the Best of SFs

Jordan was the one insulting directly to all of his teamates and Pippen and Jackson where the ones that where the leaders, calming everyone down, motivating them.

MJ was a REAL JERK and Pippen and Grant saved his life.

No wonder that in 1993-94 when he left ALL PLAYERS SHOT A HIGHER FG%, PIPPEN HAD A MONSTER YEAR 4TH IN PER, TOP IN DRT, AVERAGE NEARLY 9 REBOUNDS ETC.

They won 55 Games...Just 2 Less than With Jordan.

Jordan when he wanted to return said "If I Dont Play With Pippen I Wont Play for the Bulls"

Thats a Leader? He was no Leader to me. A Leader knows how to Talk to his Teamates to Get Them Fired Up...Pippen was the One Doing that While Everyone Complained on Jordan. Cartwright threated To Beat Him Up cause of his REAL JERK PERSONALITY

Barkley had a Much More Team Oriented Personalty than Jordan.

He was a Jerk if you got in his way...and so where many but he was carrying and laguable dude too.

This is a leader

Most of the writers and articles point to that MJ aided Pippen into becoming the player he became.

Here are a few:


Source: GoogleBooks (http://books.google.com/books?id=aQ84ViBNkYwC&pg=PA28&lpg=PA28&dq=Game+Michael+Jordan+broke+his+leg&source=web&ots=Y9Xtn3nomR&sig=6shSn2cklYKVP1kBaC6nI0A_oko&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPA39,M1)




Pippen, unlike other Bulls who usually kept their distance from Jordan, tried to learn all he could from Jordan in practice. In turn, Jordan worked with Pippen on his moves, jump shot, and defense and taught him mental toughness.



Pippen relates on how his game improved - Link (http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/jordanhof_pippen_090910.html)

[quote]

[Big164]

Those are some great quotes duncan21 I don't know what round mound was trying to pull with his comment. Mj got at Pippen like a drill sergeant and forced him to play at insane levels he didn't think capable of.

Just like Bird/mchale, Russell/Havlicek Kobe/gasol: great players bring good players to their level.

Barkley is ringless because he did not have this type of leadership. He could not take good players like KJ and transform them into champions. Spout off all the shooting%s you want, the guy is not a winner. To quote chuck even a blind man can make the finals once.