LeBron responds to the legends who claim he teamed up

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Q:Great players before you, from Magic Johnson to Larry Bird to Michael Jordan, all seem to have said that they would never have wanted to team up with their rivals.

A: Right, right.

Q: Do you think their argument has no substance - because the game has changed so much?

A: Um, well I believe that when Magic was drafted to the Lakers he had Kareem and, as the team was built, James Worthy was part of that team, as was Jamaal Wilkes, and Bob McAdoo so he had four Hall of Famers right there on his team. And Jordan went through his bumps and bruises coming up with Chicago but they were eventually able to draft Scottie Pippen and then they got Horace Grant

[King24]

:facepalm

[Andrei89]

Lebron speaks the truth...

D-Wade such an amazing player. My favorite player and I hope he can keep up for another 3 years.

However, the funny thing is, Bosh is seen as a weak a$$ player by Lebron by some people on this forum. But,, on the same time, the same players says that Lebron has great teammates like Bosh?

Lol wut? make up your damn mind haters. Is Bosh a great PF or he isn't. Let's face it the Miami Heat is only build off Lebron, Wade and Bosh. And even in their first season they did really well. However, the rest of the team is composed out of scrubs.

Mike Miller all of a sudden couldn't shoot the threes anymore, Haslem was injured most of the year, chalmers is too young to be a pg on such a team,mike bibby is getting old and he couldn't hit a three aswell, joel anthony except fo defense can't score to save his life, big Z is slow as hell and James Jones hit 98% of his jumpers from an assist ( he can't create a shot to save his life)

Admit it, this Miami team had some bad luck all of a sudden and had they had another year to jell, they would have won it all.

Period/

I admire Kobe for taking zhe championship with only 1 all star.

But let's not forget they faced Orlando because KG was injured and Boston missed the finals because of that and in their second year they had an excellent defensive SF in Artest who also came through in the clutch vs the Suns and Pau Gasol in game 7 of the finals made some excellent offensive rebound to keep the Laker winning it all/ Not too mention they had a veteran champion pg in Fisher and an excellent interior player in Bynum. Then you can add Lamar Odom as a sixth man who is easily one of the best 6th man in the league. As last, with all the good role players the Lakers have, they also have a superstar named KObe Bryant who is one muthafaking baller.

[Nick Young]

Lebron basically called Kobe the GOAT right there.

Dirk also has won with no all-star level teammates, I guess he is better than Magic and Bird too.

[Mr Know It All]

Dirk and Duncan both won this decade with no all stars.

[pauk]

Very well said Lebron.... thats the truth right there..

[Nick Young]

Dirk and Duncan both won this decade with no all stars.
Yeh but Duncan had the third greatest SG of all time plus 20 ppg Tony Parker AKA rookie of the year

[32Dayz]

Lebron basically called Kobe the GOAT right there.

Dirk also has won with no all-star level teammates, I guess he is better than Magic and Bird too.

Kobe is the Pippen of this Era
(Played with the best Player of the PJ Era for 8+ years.)
So that's a dumb thing to say.

Obviously what Lebron said is 100% true.

It's also the reason why using Rings or Championships to judge players is retarded since the main reason players end up winning multiple rings is not due to individual greatness but due to the greatness of the teams they play for.

No one does it alone, players should be judged on their own individual performances in the playoffs over the years.

You think Kareem or Magic win 6+ Rings if they hadn't played on that stacked LA team for so many years and had eachother?

Do you think Russell wins 11 Rings on any Franchise besides Boston back in the day?

Do you think Kobe has more then 0-2 Rings if he played for a franchise like Philly?

[pegasus]

There's some truth to what he says, but no other top-3 player in his prime has ever teamed up with another top-3 player who is also in his prime, plus an all-star PF. But then again, I don't think that either one of them is top-3, so maybe it's not that bad.

He's right about Kobe, and Dirk is the same.:applause:

[pauk]

Dirk and Duncan both won this decade with no all stars.

no... not technically... but you get his point and anybodies point of this being a TEAM GAME....

Dirk had no ONE guy... but he had 11 guys... he had no teammate that was an All-Star last year for example... but he had All-Star caliber players....

jason terry (6th man of the year, extremly clutch, could start for anybody imo)

shawn marion (all-star caliber player imo, great defender to)

jason kidd (same mr triple double as ever)

jj barea (what he did in the finals & against lakers is all-star caliber type of play)

caron butler (pure all-star)

tyson chandler (great great big man, especially with defense/rebounds)

and had fantastic offensive or defensive role players / benchmen... in:
Peja Stojakovic (offense)
Deshawn Stevenson (defense/offense)
Corey Brewer (this dude deserves 1st all-nba defense honers)
and so on...

[eliteballer]

Throughout history only Kobe was able to win multiple championships with only one other all star teammate.


OP added this:lol :rolleyes:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

:oldlol:

I made up that last quote about Kobe

[pauk]

i thought that was very fishy! hahahahahaha

was like what the hell.... kobe got everything handed to him on a silverplate from the get go...

the only guy who EVER won a championship with the LEAST amount of help is probably HAKEEM OLAJUWON

[32Dayz]

Kobe had the arguable GOAT (Prime Shaq) for 8+ Years.

Kobe had a Top 3 PF, a Top 3 Front Court (Gasol, Bynum, Odom)
Excellent and Elite Roleplayers @ the SG Position (Ariza, Artest)
And a Clutch Veteran PG in Fisher.
+ 6th man and Star Level Player In Odom.

Lol @ YaoMing pathetic stan.

What matters is the strength of a players entire supporting Cast not their 2nd or 3rd best players.

Kobe had a Top 3 Supporting Cast from 08-11 and he was outplayed by Gasol in the 2010 Playoffs.

GTFO with your stanning ass.

Kobe has only been the best player on his own team for 7-8 years out of his 14 year Career.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

:roll:

Why are you so angry?

[Applause]

:oldlol:

I made up that last quote about Kobe


:lol :roll:

[KingBeasley08]

nothing wrong with what lebron did. he didnt get his shaq in cleveland so he found wade and bosh to team up with :confusedshrug:

[L.Kizzle]

LeBron doesn't know the difference betwee teaming up and being drafted and or traded.

[32Dayz]

:roll:

Why are you so angry?

Because what you said is pathetic.
Kobe is the Bill Russell of this Era and you have the balls to imply that he hasn't had any help.

I cant think of a player in History that was luckier then Kobe when it came to consistently being surrounded by high level talent.

:facepalm

[eliteballer]

Hey LeBron, then how did Dirk beat you with a bunch of roleplayers?

[KingBeasley08]

Hey LeBron, then how did Dirk beat you with a bunch of roleplayers?
same way he beat Kobe

[32Dayz]

LeBron doesn't know the difference betwee teaming up and being drafted and or traded.

Is their really a difference?

Kobe refused to play for the team that drafted him and Magic Johnson said he would have gone back to College if he wasn't gonna get picked by LA and get to play next to Kareem.

Lebron was a Free Agent and joined a team with good talent to contend.
It was a smart and logical decision to make.
Cleveland had 7 full years to get some talent around him and failed epically in my opinion

[SunsCaptain]

same way he beat Kobe
:roll:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Because what you said is pathetic.
Kobe is the Bill Russell of this Era and you have the balls to imply that he hasn't had any help.

I cant think of a player in History that was luckier then Kobe when it came to consistently being surrounded by high level talent.

:facepalm

Bill Russel probably averaged like 5 HOF teammates per title team. Kobe has only 1 per title, only 1 all star per title team. 0.4 all league 2nd team defenders per title team, 0 1st team defenders per title team. His team success in incredible given the circumstances.

Those are simply the facts.

[FF1]

no... not technically... but you get his point and anybodies point of this being a TEAM GAME....

Dirk had no ONE guy... but he had 11 guys... he had no teammate that was an All-Star last year for example... but he had All-Star caliber players....

jason terry (6th man of the year, extremly clutch, could start for anybody imo)

shawn marion (all-star caliber player imo, great defender to)

jason kidd (same mr triple double as ever)

jj barea (what he did in the finals & against lakers is all-star caliber type of play)

caron butler (pure all-star)

tyson chandler (great great big man, especially with defense/rebounds)

and had fantastic offensive or defensive role players / benchmen... in:
Peja Stojakovic (offense)
Deshawn Stevenson (defense/offense)
Corey Brewer (this dude deserves 1st all-nba defense honers)
and so on...

Shawn Marion and JJB Barea are not all-star caliber players. Wow.

And Caron didn't play a single minute in the playoffs.

[L.Kizzle]

Is their really a difference?

Kobe refused to play for the team that drafted him and Magic Johnson said he would have gone back to College if he wasn't gonna get picked by LA and get to play next to Kareem.

Lebron was a Free Agent and joined a team with good talent to contend.
It was a smart and logical decision to make.
Cleveland had 7 full years to get some talent around him and failed epically in my opinion
Rookies who had no previous impact into the league. And was this (Magic) decided before he declared for the draft and hired an agent? Isn't that illegal?

[32Dayz]

That Dallas team was deep and well rounded but they shouldnt have beaten Miami.

Miami choked somewhat like Dallas choked against them in 06.

Deja Vu?

[pauk]

Lebron should have also mentioned that Magic & Bird have ZERO case to say what they did.... especially MAGIC... he said himself he refused to come to the NBA if he didnt play for Kareem & Lakers.... he was a ringchaser.... he got everything handed to him on a silverplate from the get go... he didnt went thru bumps & bruises like Jordan or Lebron..... so his situation was completely different.... so why the **** would Magic leave?

players who were not in Lebrons shoes or close to it should not be allowed to comment or at least their comments shouldnt be any type of valuable/reasonable.....

Jordan i can understand.. somewhat.. somewhat because he was in Lebrons shoes.. but he got Pippen and then Rodman and so on, he got the best teammates ever (and best Coach ever)...... so he didnt had to leave.......... so once again different situation.......

Lebron had to LEAVE to create what Magic/Bird/Kobe/Jordan had most of their careers........... if he stayed he would have been ringless for the rest of his career...... ringless & "loyal/beloved" :rolleyes:

Lebron waited for 7 years patiently... never complained... he only said "My goal is to win a championship / multiple championships".... when he felt Cleveland *cough* Dan Gilbert *cough* was not so serious about his goals (and that Cities goals) he new his feature wouldnt look good..... he would only waste his time to be there.... while turning down this career changing / once in a lifetime oppurtunity in Miami and win multiple championships... guaranteed...

[eliteballer]

same way he beat Kobe

Kobe has 5 rings and a bad knee, and what does this have to do with Kobe? Smart alleck comment fail.

[32Dayz]

Exactly... Mo Williams and Anderson Varejo are no Pippen and Rodman

Lebron had good reason to leave that franchise.

[eliteballer]

Lebron should have also mentioned that Magic & Bird have ZERO case to say what they did.... especially MAGIC... he said himself he refused to come to the NBA if he didnt play for Kareem & Lakers.... he was a ringchaser.... he got everything handed to him on a silverplate from the get go... he didnt went thru bumps & bruises like Jordan or Lebron..... so his situation was completely different.... so why the **** would Magic leave?

players who were not in Lebrons shoes or close to it should not be allowed to comment or at least their comments shouldnt be any type of valuable/reasonable.....

Jordan i can understand.. somewhat.. somewhat because he was in Lebrons shoes.. but he got Pippen and then Rodman and so on, he got the best teammates ever (and best Coach ever)...... so he didnt had to leave.......... so once again different situation.......

Lebron had to LEAVE to create what Magic/Bird/Kobe/Jordan had most of their careers........... if he stayed he would have been ringless for the rest of his career...... ringless & "loyal/beloved" :rolleyes:

Magic and Bird had to go through better teams, LeBron loses to Dwight and Hedo's Magic.

[32Dayz]

Bill Russel probably averaged like 5 HOF teammates per title team. Kobe has only 1 per title, only 1 all star per title team. 0.4 all league 2nd team defenders per title team, 0 1st team defenders per title team. His team success in incredible given the circumstances.

Those are simply the facts.

Kobe had the Jordan of this Era in Prime Shaq for 8+ Years with some good and Clutch roleplayers and then a Top 3 PF + a Top 3 League-Wide Supporting Cast for another 4 Years. Oh.. and the GOAT Coach in PJ the entire time.

Those are the facts. :applause:

His team success is quite underwhelming and unimpressive (imo) considering his circumstances.
:facepalm

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Kobe had the Jordan of this Era in Prime Shaq for 8+ Years with some good and Clutch roleplayers and then a Top 3 PF + a Top 3 League-Wide Supporting Cast for another 4 Years. Oh.. and the GOAT Coach in PJ the entire time.

Those are the facts. :applause:

His team success is quite underwhelming and unimpressive (imo) considering his circumstances.
:facepalm

Perhaps you are not aware of the difference between facts and opinions.

Shaq=Jordan = opinion
good and clutch role players = opinion
top 3 PF = opinion
top 3 supporting cast= opinion
PJ= GOAT coach = opinion

[32Dayz]

Most people agree Jordan and Shaq have the two best Primes.

So even if you disagree with them being equal the majority agree they are close.

Most people agree PJ is the GOAT Coach or at the worst has an argument for it.

Most people agree the early 00 LA teams had some solid and Clutch roleplayers.

Most people agree that Gasol was a Top 3 PF and that the Late 00 Lakers had one of the better supporting Casts in the entire league.

Yes those are all "opinions" but the majority will agree with them.

[G-train]

LeBron doesn't know the difference betwee teaming up and being drafted and or traded.

Sounds like he does to me.
Lebron was drafted to Cleveland, who showed basically no ability to land him a star to help him. Despite many rumoured opportunities.
Case by case.

It would have become a KG/Minny situation. Except even KG had a decent team at times.

Difference between Lebron and KG? How it was announced. And he was the best player in the league in mosts eyes.

[Math2]

Oscar "Robinson"

dumbass...pretends to know stuff but doesn't know shit

[Jacks3]

lol.

Only Kobe can win 5 NBA titles, make 7 NBA Finals, have 10 55+ win seasons including 2 65+ win seasons, be a huge part of the G.O.A.T post-season team (15-1)...do this all on two completely different team across a wide variety of roles...and still have his team success be called unimpressive or underwhelming. :lol :lol :lol

[SpecialQue]

Pwned?

[32Dayz]

Oscar "Robinson"

dumbass...pretends to know stuff but doesn't know shit

:oldlol: I didn't notice that.

[32Dayz]

lol.

Only Kobe can win 5 NBA titles, make 7 NBA Finals, have 10 55+ win seasons including 2 65+ win seasons, be a huge part of the G.O.A.T post-season team (15-1)...do this all on two completely different team across a wide variety of roles...and still have his team success be called unimpressive or underwhelming. :lol :lol :lol

He sabotaged his own teams in 04, 06 and 08 and his lack of development as a player and poor play in the Post-Season was one of the bigger reasons the Lakers couldn't contend in the late 90's.

Give Bron or Wade Prime Shaq for 8 years and I'm pretty sure they win more then 3 Rings.

What he accomplished with his 2nd team (08-11) was fine but he should have won far more earlier in his Career with the Talent he had around him.

That is why his Career to me is relatively unimpressive, he should have won more. I am talking 7-8 Rings

[bwink23]

OP added this:lol :rolleyes:


I"m pretty sure Scottie Pippen was the only other All-Star teammate during Jordan's first 3 championships, so i guess Lebron DOESN'T know his history that well....

[G-train]

I"m pretty sure Scottie Pippen was the only other All-Star teammate during Jordan's first 3 championships, so i guess Lebron DOESN'T know his history that well....

BJ and Horace were all stars the year he left I think, so close enough. :D

[G-train]

:oldlol: I didn't notice that.

You think he typed it? :facepalm

[32Dayz]

You think he typed it? :facepalm

I have no idea, either way its not a horrible mistake.
I have seen 1000's of posters on Ish and other Forums make the same mistake.
We all knew who he was talking about.

[verylegit]

Yeh but Duncan had the third greatest SG of all time plus 20 ppg Tony Parker AKA rookie of the year
there's a lot of changing opinions. first, manu is better than wade and every other sg and is on kobe's level BUT he is not all star or is COMPLETELEY irrelevant when counting duncan's chips'. duncan the great defensive anchor, won all by himself, robinson only helped by hydrating him with gatorade, tony parker kept his dick moist during the playoffs and manu isn't that great but when being talked about individually, he is better than wade. make ur mind up people. this isn't a goddamn new generation gas saving hemi v8 that runs on all 8 cylinders or 4 cylinders depending on the requirements of the driver. ether manu is great or he's not. :violin:

[Jacks3]

Agreed. 5 NBA titles, 7 NBA Finals, 10 55+ win seasons including 2 65+ win seasons, being a huge part of the G.O.A.T post-season team (15-1)...do this all on two completely different team across a wide variety of roles...it's very disappointing indeed. Give Wade/LeBron that and they'd 8-9 titles. Book it.

[bwink23]

BJ and Horace were all stars the year he left I think, so close enough. :D


One All-Star selection AFTER winning 3 championships....is NOT close enough. There were better players at their position than those 2 during the championship years. They weren't selected because they WERE NOT ALL STAR players. THE END.

[32Dayz]

That's pushing it Jacks.
I could see LA winning in 98 or 99 with Wade or Lebron who developed much faster then Kobe and would provide a far better second scoring threat for Shaq to rely on when teams swarmed him.

Then they'd win in 04 without the purposeful sabotage.

Add the Two Titles in 09 and 10 and that's 6-8 Titles.
Assuming the player is Wade who regularly owns the Celtic's they might win in 08 also.

[Smoke117]

Lebron basically called Kobe the GOAT right there.

Dirk also has won with no all-star level teammates, I guess he is better than Magic and Bird too.

No, he basically called what Kobe had...the most talented team any "star player" has had.

[swi7ch]

Others are just jealous because when LBJ retires, he'll have more championships than Bird, Magic, etc. :applause:

[Jacks3]

lol. Most talented team ever for any star? :oldlol:

How dare you insult the most dominant big ever.

Look at his epicness before joining LA:
0 MVP votes
0 All-NBA Teams
1 All-Star appearance
Not even regarded as top 5 at his own position.
Not even regarded as a top 15 player.
Swept in PS three straight seasons
Food for though: Gasol with/without net (team efficiency differential) in Mermhis:
2005 -1.4 (!), 26 games missed
2007 -1.6 (!), 23 games missed



Gasol's RAPM:
2002 -0.3 (221st place)
2003 -0.8 (250th)
2004 -0.2 (150th)
2005 +0.2 (137th)
2006 +1.1 (83rd)
2007 -1.3 (313rd)


So again - before LA his not even top100 during those seasons ;]

2005: 50% W-L% with Gasol, 65.4% without Gasol (26 games missed)
2007: 28.8% with, 21.7% without (23)
2008: 25.6% with, 27.9% without (43)

So it's not a fluke, season after season, large sample in every case and Memhis without Gasol was doing as good as with him.

look at his team record with and without him when he missed an extended stretch in 2005:

With Gasol: 28-28
Without Gasol: 17-9

Truly the G.O.A.T

And that's not all for Kobe's incredible supporting cast.

You have Odom-A top 50 player who's never ever even been a All-Star.

And you can't forget the incredible Bynum.
Look at these numbers:
0/0/0 in 2008 as the Lakers make the Finals.
6 pts/4 rbs as the Lakers win the Championship.
7 pts/4 rbs as the Lakers win the Championship.

Incredible! LOL.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[32Dayz]

Gasol accomplished the same thing Kobe did before they teamed up.
1st round Exit's in the West.

05 - 07 | No Playoffs or First Round Exit.
08 - 10 (Gasol Era) | 3 Finalz + 2 Ringz.

Then you add Bynum, Odom, Artest, Ariza, Fisher.. easily one of the best supporting Casts in the entire league.

Gasol = Top 3 PF / Top 10 Player from 08-10.

2010 Playoff Summary.
Gasol better in 12/23 Games.
Kobe better in 10/23 Games.

But yea.. Gasol sucks. :lol

[G-train]

One All-Star selection AFTER winning 3 championships....is NOT close enough. There were better players at their position than those 2 during the championship years. They weren't selected because they WERE NOT ALL STAR players. THE END.

lol u mad bro. Bulls had good players, and didn't win a title until they did. Thats his point.

I cant see where Lebron said allstars anyway

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Did that guy say Shaq is an arguable GOAT?

:roll:

[G-train]

Lakers champ teams since 2000 were all fantastic teams that were well coached.

[32Dayz]

Did that guy say Shaq is an arguable GOAT?

:roll:

He is but that isn't what I said.

I said Prime Shaq was the arguable GOAT.

Only Jordan has a case for having a better Prime.

So during the that time period Kobe was playing with the GOAT or a player with a very good argument for it.

[Jacks3]

lol. Most talented team ever for any star? :oldlol:

How dare you insult the most dominant big ever.

Look at his epicness before joining LA:
0 MVP votes
0 All-NBA Teams
1 All-Star appearance
Not even regarded as top 5 at his own position.
Not even regarded as a top 15 player.
Swept in PS three straight seasons
Food for though: Gasol with/without net (team efficiency differential) in Mermhis:
2005 -1.4 (!), 26 games missed
2007 -1.6 (!), 23 games missed



Gasol's RAPM:
2002 -0.3 (221st place)
2003 -0.8 (250th)
2004 -0.2 (150th)
2005 +0.2 (137th)
2006 +1.1 (83rd)
2007 -1.3 (313rd)


So again - before LA his not even top100 during those seasons ;]

2005: 50% W-L% with Gasol, 65.4% without Gasol (26 games missed)
2007: 28.8% with, 21.7% without (23)
2008: 25.6% with, 27.9% without (43)

So it's not a fluke, season after season, large sample in every case and Memhis without Gasol was doing as good as with him.

look at his team record with and without him when he missed an extended stretch in 2005:

With Gasol: 28-28
Without Gasol: 17-9

Truly the G.O.A.T

And that's not all for Kobe's incredible supporting cast.

You have Odom-A top 50 player who's never ever even been a All-Star.

And you can't forget the incredible Bynum.
Look at these numbers:
0/0/0 in 2008 as the Lakers make the Finals.
6 pts/4 rbs as the Lakers win the Championship.
7 pts/4 rbs as the Lakers win the Championship.

Incredible! LOL.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
He also had Fisher--the worst starting PG in the league, shit benches, and mediocre outside shooting.

Amazing.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Jordan/Kareem/Bird/Magic/Dr.J/West/Duncan/Wilt/ etc never had a supporting cast even close to as good as this epicness.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[kenny817]

same way he beat Kobe
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Nash]

Lebron's problem was that he was so good from the beginning that Cleveland didn't get good draft picks. Would have been better for him if his team sucked more the first few seasons so Cleveland could have drafted better players.

[32Dayz]

I acknowledge that Gasol was a Top 3 PF and Top 10 Player from 08-10

I acknowledge that Kobe had a Top 3 League-Wide supporting Cast from 08-10 and only retarded Stans who are trying to make Kobe look better would say differently.

I acknowledge that Odom is probably the best 6th man or 3rd option in the entire league since 08.

I acknowledge that Gasol was arguably as valuable as Kobe in the 2010 playoffs matching his Production and actually outplaying him in more games.

2010 Playoff Summary.
Gasol better in 12/23 Games.
Kobe better in 10/23 Games.


Thank You. :hammerhead:

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

He is but that isn't what I said.

I said Prime Shaq was the arguable GOAT.

Only Jordan has a case for having a better Prime.

So during the that time period Kobe was playing with the GOAT or a player with a very good argument for it.

:roll:

[Blue&Orange]

3 Things Lebron and his Stans don't understand...

1 - Before the league didn't had so many teams, meaning more talent concentrated. It's obvious if there are other teams full of all-stars,you are going to need a team full of stars also. That doesn't happen now, you don't need a team full of HOFers to win, because no other teams have that, teaming up in a 30 teams league like he did is ridiculous, specially when you are the "chosen one"...

2 - All the names he mentioned, Bird, Magic, Jordan, West, they all stepped up when it mattered, in the big stage, they never choked on the finals. Lebron did\does.

3 - All the names he mentioned, none "teamed up", they were drafted or traded. Same thing when the dumbass called the present celtics, "The blueprint", KG and Allen where traded... he doesn't get that.



And point 1 and 2 is what makes Kobe O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D.

[Nash]

Oscar "Robinson"

dumbass...pretends to know stuff but doesn't know shit
Oh god, you think Lebron interview himself then typed it?

Journalist from ESPN makes a mistake= Lebron's fault, he's a dumbass.

[32Dayz]

:roll:

So you disagree that Shaq doesn't arguably have the GOAT Prime?

Guess your either biased or unknowledgeable so I'll simply ignore you in the future. Well.. anytime I see "Ariana Army" I assume the poster is Biased or Stupid.
What is that shit anyway? Sounds like some German Nazi cult.

He is also the 2nd best playoff performer of All-Time after Jordan and a legit GOAT Candidate although most people will rank him from 4-7.

[Dengness9]

Kobe has 5 rings and a bad knee, and what does this have to do with Kobe? Smart alleck comment fail.


I definitely lol'd at his comment, so your attempt to call out a fail was a fail.:applause:

[ShaqAttack3234]

Actually, Jerry West won his first championship during his 8th final, he got back a 9th time the following year, but lost.

I'm hoping Lebron didn't mean that Worthy and McAdoo were on the Lakers when Magic was a rookie either, and that Wilkes isn't a hall of famer.

Minor nitpicking I guess, but I had to do it when he says "I know the history of the game".

Either way, his point is actually valid.



Throughout history only Kobe was able to win multiple championships with only one other all star teammate.

Can't believe people actually fell for the OPs joke and thought Lebron said this part. I clicked the ESPN link as soon as I saw this part in the OP.

Funny thing is, that's not even factually correct.

Other players have won multiple titles without multiple all-stars.

Technically, Duncan had no all-stars on the '99 team due to the lockout, though Robinson was all-star caliber, he was the only teammate Duncan had on that team who anyone in their right mind would argue was an all-star type player that season.

Duncan didn't have a single all-star on the 2003 team.

Manu was Duncan's only all-star teammate on the 2005 team.

Parker was Duncan's only all-star teammate on the 2007 team, though with Manu you could argue two all-star caliber teammates.

Either way, that's 3 without multiple all-star caliber players and 4 won without multiple guys who made the all-star team those seasons.

Shaq also did it by winning 3 consecutive times with Kobe as his only all-star teammate and 1 with Wade as his only all-star teammate(I'm assuming this isn't limited to first option rings unless the OP wants to exclude Kobe's first 3, particularly 2000).

Hakeem also did it in '94 and '95 without an all-star teammate. Drexler did make the all-nba third team in '95, and he was definitely still all-star caliber, but either way, he was the only one on the '95 team, so 1 with only 1 all-star caliber player and another with zero.

Jordan actually did it 6 times technically. Pippen actually didn't make the all-star team in '91 and '98 making it twice without an all-star teammate. Though nobody would argue that Pippen was all-star caliber by '91 and he obviously didn't make it in '98 due to regular season injuries. Grant did make a lone all-star team in '94 without Jordan, though I'm sure we can agree that calling Grant an all-star PF all 3 championship seasons is a stretch. BJ Armstrong, also made the all-star team in '94, but we can use common sense here, it's not like BJ was better than Lamar Odom for example.

And Pippen himself won multiple times without multiple all-star teammates.



Lebron had good reason to leave that franchise.

When you fulfill your contract as Lebron did then he's free to go to any team he wants, and he did. Whether it was wanting to play in a different city, or wanting to play on a better team, neither of those reasons deserve criticism. He didn't handle it well at all, and I criticized him for that. But those acting like he had no right to leave Cleveland are being ridiculous.

Hell, Lebron didn't even demand a trade while he was there, which many stars do and receive far less criticism than Lebron.

[Heavincent]

Very well said Lebron.... thats the truth right there..

If Lebron raped your mother you'd still defend him.

[GOBB]

And Jordan went through his bumps and bruises coming up with Chicago but they were eventually able to draft Scottie Pippen and then they got Horace Grant – two great players –. So that team was built for Jordan

They were drafted, they were not established talents in their primes that signed with Michael Jordan. Learn the difference Bron Bron.

[Jacks3]

lol. Most talented team ever for any star?

How dare you insult the most dominant big ever.

Look at his epicness before joining LA:
0 MVP votes
0 All-NBA Teams
1 All-Star appearance
Not even regarded as top 5 at his own position.
Not even regarded as a top 15 player.
Swept in PS three straight seasons
Food for though: Gasol with/without net (team efficiency differential) in Mermhis:
2005 -1.4 (!), 26 games missed
2007 -1.6 (!), 23 games missed



Gasol's RAPM:
2002 -0.3 (221st place)
2003 -0.8 (250th)
2004 -0.2 (150th)
2005 +0.2 (137th)
2006 +1.1 (83rd)
2007 -1.3 (313rd)


So again - before LA his not even top100 during those seasons ;]

2005: 50% W-L% with Gasol, 65.4% without Gasol (26 games missed)
2007: 28.8% with, 21.7% without (23)
2008: 25.6% with, 27.9% without (43)

So it's not a fluke, season after season, large sample in every case and Memhis without Gasol was doing as good as with him.

look at his team record with and without him when he missed an extended stretch in 2005:

With Gasol: 28-28
Without Gasol: 17-9

Truly the G.O.A.T

And that's not all for Kobe's incredible supporting cast.

You have Odom-A top 50 player who's never ever even been a All-Star.

And you can't forget the incredible Bynum.
Look at these numbers:
0/0/0 in 2008 as the Lakers make the Finals.
6 pts/4 rbs as the Lakers win the Championship.
7 pts/4 rbs as the Lakers win the Championship.

Incredible! LOL.

He also had Fisher--the worst starting PG in the league, shit benches, and mediocre outside shooting.

Amazing.



Jordan/Kareem/Bird/Magic/Dr.J/West/Duncan/Wilt/ etc never had a supporting cast even close to as good as this epicness.
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[32Dayz]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:























:facepalm

[Kurosawa0]

Miami had the best combination of talent and organization of the teams LeBron had to choose from. He made the right choice, absolutely. Would've loved to see him in Chicago, but Miami was the better choice.

[Dengness9]

Lebron should have also mentioned that Magic & Bird have ZERO case to say what they did.... especially MAGIC... he said himself he refused to come to the NBA if he didnt play for Kareem & Lakers.... he was a ringchaser.... he got everything handed to him on a silverplate from the get go... he didnt went thru bumps & bruises like Jordan or Lebron..... so his situation was completely different.... so why the **** would Magic leave?

players who were not in Lebrons shoes or close to it should not be allowed to comment or at least their comments shouldnt be any type of valuable/reasonable.....

Jordan i can understand.. somewhat.. somewhat because he was in Lebrons shoes.. but he got Pippen and then Rodman and so on, he got the best teammates ever (and best Coach ever)...... so he didnt had to leave.......... so once again different situation.......

Lebron had to LEAVE to create what Magic/Bird/Kobe/Jordan had most of their careers........... if he stayed he would have been ringless for the rest of his career...... ringless & "loyal/beloved" :rolleyes:

Lebron waited for 7 years patiently... never complained... he only said "My goal is to win a championship / multiple championships".... when he felt Cleveland *cough* Dan Gilbert *cough* was not so serious about his goals (and that Cities goals) he new his feature wouldnt look good..... he would only waste his time to be there.... while turning down this career changing / once in a lifetime oppurtunity in Miami and win multiple championships... guaranteed...



Still making excuses???? atleast you're faithful to your RINGLESS butt buddy.


And your disrespect to MJ is not suprising at all to any of us at this point.

Acting like Pippen and Grant came into the league as studs.... Michael Jordan made those guys reach their absolute potential.

Keep hiding behind excuses, keep crying, Lebron is a failure and will never be considered a top 5 player, cuz he isnt a WINNER. He's too busy choking on Wade's std ridden schlong.

Holler.

[Dengness9]

They were drafted, they were not established talents in their primes that signed with Michael Jordan. Learn the difference Bron Bron.


YESSIR.

[32Dayz]

Still making excuses???? atleast you're faithful to your RINGLESS butt buddy.


And your disrespect to MJ is not suprising at all to any of us at this point.

Acting like Pippen and Grant came into the league as studs.... Michael Jordan made those guys reach their absolute potential.

Keep hiding behind excuses, keep crying, Lebron is a failure and will never be considered a top 5 player, cuz he isnt a WINNER. He's too busy choking on Wade's std ridden schlong.

Holler.

http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/6001114/480/lol/LOL-WUT.jpg

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

So you disagree that Shaq doesn't arguably have the GOAT Prime?

That wasn't what I was laughing at nor what you said. In case you forgot, here's what you said:


He is but that isn't what I said.

I said Prime Shaq was the arguable GOAT.

First, you said he is the arguable GOAT, which is hilarious, hence the :roll: emoticon. Secondly, you didn't say "Shaq had arguably the GOAT prime." you said "Prime Shaq was the arguable GOAT." which means that for those 4 or 5 years, you are saying he was arguably the best player to ever play, which he wasn't, hence the :roll: emoticon once again.


Guess your either biased or unknowledgeable so I'll simply ignore you in the future. Well.. anytime I see "Ariana Army" I assume the poster is Biased or Stupid.
What is that shit anyway? Sounds like some German Nazi cult.

Assume whatever you want it doesn't make your statement any less funny


He is also the 2nd best playoff performer of All-Time after Jordan and a legit GOAT Candidate although most people will rank him from 4-7.

Maybe that should tell you something then :oldlol: There's a reason no one with half a brain would put Shaq as GOAT. I haven't seen any respectable people put him at 4 even. And you're talking about bias? LOL. Gold.

[PowerGlove]

The drafted vs signed thing has to be one of the dumbest things I've heard.

So a player depending on a franchise to deliver him quality teammates is praised but a player who chooses to join a good team is despised and ridiculed???

You cant even apply that to anything else. That logic doesn't even make sense.

[32Dayz]

First, you said he is the arguable GOAT, which is logical. Secondly, you didn't say "Shaq had arguably the GOAT prime." you said "Prime Shaq was the arguable GOAT." which means that for those 4 or 5 years, you are saying he was arguably the best player to ever play.

If you "arguably" have the GOAT Prime then during those years you are the best that has ever played.

Do you really not understand that?
:facepalm

Shaq from 98-02 was playing at a GOAT level.
Only Jordan can rival his level of Play and Dominance over a 5 year stretch.

[BlackJoker23]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
goat :bowdown: :bowdown:

[kentatm]

no... not technically... but you get his point and anybodies point of this being a TEAM GAME....

Dirk had no ONE guy... but he had 11 guys... he had no teammate that was an All-Star last year for example... but he had All-Star caliber players....

jason terry (6th man of the year, extremly clutch, could start for anybody imo)

shawn marion (all-star caliber player imo, great defender to)

jason kidd (same mr triple double as ever)

jj barea (what he did in the finals & against lakers is all-star caliber type of play)

caron butler (pure all-star)

tyson chandler (great great big man, especially with defense/rebounds)

and had fantastic offensive or defensive role players / benchmen... in:
Peja Stojakovic (offense)
Deshawn Stevenson (defense/offense)
Corey Brewer (this dude deserves 1st all-nba defense honers)
and so on...



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


what drugs do they have you on over at the funny farm?


Jason Terry, Shawn Marion, JJ Barea, Jason Kidd and Tyson Chandler were all star caliber players last year?

Caron Butler was out for the year starting in friggin early January. :lol

Peja was useless in the finals and Corey Brewer did not even get into a Finals game and only played about 20 minutes in the entire playoffs.

and DeShawn Stevenson? The guy LeBron called Soulja Boy?

[Doranku]

Did someone just say Corey Brewer deserves all-NBA 1st team defensive honors? :roll: :roll: :roll:

And I thought it was funny when people called Gasol and Bynum dominant big men...

[G-train]

They were drafted, they were not established talents in their primes that signed with Michael Jordan. Learn the difference Bron Bron.

Who was drafted to Lebron?

Pretty sure he knows the difference. His point is, he needed help. Its 5 on 5. Cavs gave him no sidekicks.

[kentatm]

Who was drafted to Lebron?

Pretty sure he knows the difference. His point is, he needed help. Its 5 on 5. Cavs gave him no sidekicks.


ahh, so when they finally have the cap space to do something about it, he bails.

very smart guy that LeBron.

he is excellent at putting two and two together.

and its not like the Cavs weren't trying to wheel and deal for moves to improve the team.

people thought the Jamison move was a great one.

hell, it may have been had LeBron given it more than half a season to gel.

[PowerGlove]

ahh, so when they finally have the cap space to do something about it, he bails.

very smart guy that LeBron.

he is excellent at putting two and two together.

and its not like the Cavs weren't trying to wheel and deal for moves to improve the team.

people thought the Jamison move was a great one.

hell, it may have been had LeBron given it more than half a season to gel.
They plenty of cap space before they started signing and traded for washed up players like sczerbiak and wallace.

[Kiarip]

i thought that was very fishy! hahahahahaha

was like what the hell.... kobe got everything handed to him on a silverplate from the get go...

the only guy who EVER won a championship with the LEAST amount of help is probably HAKEEM OLAJUWON


... you're a joke...

Kobe spent his athletic prime being reduced to a side-kick at time when he was the second best perimeter player to ever play the game.

Then he spent his peak playing for an absolutely horrible team in a stacked conference...

Then during his decline he was finally given a team that was capable of getting to the play-offs, and he's had 3 very average playoff runs to the finals as a result.

And by average, I mean they would be average for an exceptional top 20-50 all time basketball player in his prime, but they're actually quite a bit below average compared to what he was capable of in his peak.

[Jacks3]

Average?

30/6/6/2/57% TS over three-yr post-season stretch is average now? :lol

Including series of:

34/6/5/2/60% TS
33/7/7/2/60% TS
29/6/5/2/61% TS
34/6/6/2/59% TS
32/7/6/2/1/55% TS
32/6/5/2/62% TS
34/9/7/2/61% TS
29/8/5/2/1/53% TS

That's average now? Damn. The standards for Kobe are crazy. :facepalm

[Kiarip]

Average?

30/6/6/2/57% TS over three-yr post-season stretch is average now? :lol

Including series of:

34/6/5/2/60% TS
33/7/7/2/60% TS
29/6/5/2/61% TS
34/6/6/2/59% TS
32/7/6/2/1/55% TS
32/6/5/2/62% TS
34/9/7/2/61% TS
29/8/5/2/1/53% TS

That's average now? Damn. The standards for Kobe are crazy. :facepalm

you're the biggest kobe nut-hugger after alphapup... Way to post the most biased list of numbers you could


His averages the last 3 runs to the finals.

30.1/5.7/5.6/47.9% FG
30.2/5.3/5.5/45.7% FG
29.2/6.0/5.5/45.8% FG

This is average for a top 20-30 player in his prime.

[Jacks3]

How is that biased? :oldlol: I simply rounded the numbers up, and used TS% instead of the useless FG%.

But keep on believing a run like this:

30/6/6/2/57% TS with 7 40+ point games and 56 30+ point games.

Including series of:

34/6/5/2/60% TS
33/7/7/2/60% TS
29/6/5/2/61% TS
34/6/6/2/59% TS
32/7/6/2/1/55% TS
32/6/5/2/62% TS
34/9/7/2/61% TS
29/8/5/2/1/53% TS

While making three straight Finals and winning back-to-back rings...

Is "average". LOL. Damn. Crazy standards. :pimp:

[Kiarip]

How is that biased? :oldlol: I simply rounded the numbers up, and used TS% instead of the useless FG%.

But keep on believing a run like this:

30/6/6/2/57% TS with 7 40+ point games and 56 30+ point games.

Including series of:

34/6/5/2/60% TS
33/7/7/2/60% TS
29/6/5/2/61% TS
34/6/6/2/59% TS
32/7/6/2/1/55% TS
32/6/5/2/62% TS
34/9/7/2/61% TS
29/8/5/2/1/53% TS

While making three straight Finals and winning back-to-back rings...

Is "average". LOL. Damn. Crazy standards. :pimp:


Everyone's has had good series...

Look at Rick Barry, he's had similar play-off numbers in his good seasons, look at Dwight Howards series against the hawks last season... 25.5 points 15.5 rebounds...


those are average numbers in a play-offs for an elite basketball player... quit nut-hugging geeze.

[jlip]

The drafted vs signed thing has to be one of the dumbest things I've heard.

So a player depending on a franchise to deliver him quality teammates is praised but a player who chooses to join a good team is despised and ridiculed???

You cant even apply that to anything else. That logic doesn't even make sense.

This

[Jacks3]

those are average numbers in a play-offs for an elite basketball player... quit nut-hugging geeze.
:oldlol:

Yup.

30/6/6/2/57% TS with 7 40+ point games and 56 30+ point games.

Including series of:

34/6/5/2/60% TS
33/7/7/2/60% TS
29/6/5/2/61% TS
34/6/6/2/59% TS
32/7/6/2/1/55% TS
32/6/5/2/62% TS
34/9/7/2/61% TS
29/8/5/2/1/53% TS

While making three straight Finals and winning back-to-back rings...

Is "average". LOL. Damn. The hate is strong with this one.

:oldlol:

[LA_Showtime]

I didn't read the article or any of the comments but did LeBron actually say that about Kobe? That sounds like something a Kobe fan would add. :oldlol:

Either way, props to LeBron for keeping it real.

[Kiarip]

:oldlol:

Yup.

30/6/6/2/57% TS with 7 40+ point games and 56 30+ point games.

Including series of:

34/6/5/2/60% TS
33/7/7/2/60% TS
29/6/5/2/61% TS
34/6/6/2/59% TS
32/7/6/2/1/55% TS
32/6/5/2/62% TS
34/9/7/2/61% TS
29/8/5/2/1/53% TS

While making three straight Finals and winning back-to-back rings...

Is "average". LOL. Damn. The hate is strong with this one.

:oldlol:

individually they were average playoff performances for an elite player...

Players rated worse than Kobe have had better play-off series...

get off his nuts. I didn't come into this thread hating on Kobe at all, you're just absolutely moron who understands jack shit (as your name implies) about basketball. gtfo?

[Jacks3]

individually they were average playoff performances for an elite player...


Yup.

30/6/6/2/57% TS with 7 40+ point games and 56 30+ point games.

Including series of:

34/6/5/2/60% TS
33/7/7/2/60% TS
29/6/5/2/61% TS
34/6/6/2/59% TS
32/7/6/2/1/55% TS
32/6/5/2/62% TS
34/9/7/2/61% TS
29/8/5/2/1/53% TS

While making three straight Finals and winning back-to-back rings...

Is "average". LOL. Damn. The hate is strong with this one.

:oldlol:

[pauk]

That's pushing it Jacks.
I could see LA winning in 98 or 99 with Wade or Lebron who developed much faster then Kobe and would provide a far better second scoring threat for Shaq to rely on when teams swarmed him.

Then they'd win in 04 without the purposeful sabotage.

Add the Two Titles in 09 and 10 and that's 6-8 Titles.
Assuming the player is Wade who regularly owns the Celtic's they might win in 08 also.

Exactly! Not only that.... but Lebron would have NOT pissed of any of his teammates either, certainly Shaq would have stayed... and they would have won even more championships....

damn.. when i think about it... Lebrons career would have changed dramatically.. even his role... he was drafted PG... so i think he would turn out to be more of a pure PG... there would have been no reason for him to leave PG and go SG/SF and have scoring as a priority... Shaq was the 1st option so... Lebron would have been a Magic Johnson CLONE (but better imo)...

[knightfall88]

its ok to have GOAT team mates, but joining a rival of 7 years since your rookie year is kinda lame

[pauk]

its ok to have GOAT team mates, but joining a rival of 7 years since your rookie year is kinda lame

wtf? when were Wade & Lebron "rivals"? they only played occasionally in the season.... not even guarding eachother... where they played only like 20 games against eachother in their careers... where Lebron would win & outperform Wade most of the time... they were never rivals..... hell... they were more like the opposite, love birds since day 1, best buddies...

lebron never really had any rival.... the only thing close to a rival to him was probably Carmelo or Kobe... and now maybe Durant will be a rival who knows

[R.I.P.]

2 - All the names he mentioned, Bird, Magic, Jordan, West, they all stepped up when it mattered, in the big stage, they never choked on the finals. Lebron did\does.
.

:wtf:



Given what we now know about West and his life long battle with depression, I think there is a decent chance West would have killed himself before he ever got a chance to win his championship, if he had to play in this technological era of internet writers, bloggers and fans.

With every finals loss he would have been buried under a pile of shit. Then people would have build a mansion of shit on it, dropped a nuclear shitbomb on it. Buried the nuclear toxic shit under a mountain of deluxe shit, and topped with a Hollywood sign of C-H-O-K-E-R, you guessed it, built with shit.

Can

[Heavincent]

Exactly! Not only that.... but Lebron would have NOT pissed of any of his teammates either, certainly Shaq would have stayed... and they would have won even more championships....

damn.. when i think about it... Lebrons career would have changed dramatically.. even his role... he was drafted PG... so i think he would turn out to be more of a pure PG... there would have been no reason for him to leave PG and go SG/SF and have scoring as a priority... Shaq was the 1st option so... Lebron would have been a Magic Johnson CLONE (but better imo)...

Oh Jesus tap-dancing Christ, here we go again with this lame argument.

Lebron had the best supporting cast in the league this past year, and he still didn't win the Finals. It's not a legitimate excuse anymore...and it never really was anyway.

Stupid hypothetical theories are stupid.

[kentatm]

Exactly! Not only that.... but Lebron would have NOT pissed of any of his teammates either, certainly Shaq would have stayed... and they would have won even more championships....

damn.. when i think about it... Lebrons career would have changed dramatically.. even his role... he was drafted PG... so i think he would turn out to be more of a pure PG... there would have been no reason for him to leave PG and go SG/SF and have scoring as a priority... Shaq was the 1st option so... Lebron would have been a Magic Johnson CLONE (but better imo)...


:oldlol:

riiiiiight.


b/c Shaq wasn't just as much, if not more, to blame for their relationship going sour.

GTFO outta here with that crap.

Shaq would have been just as lazy and just as big a prick to LeBron as he was to Kobe. Shaq is the one that set that up to fail b/c of his insecure and childish ways. He would have been just as insecure about LeBron as he was with Kobe. The dude has left on bad terms everywhere he has been. It does not matter what superstar he was paired with. He would have ruined it and been shipped off regardless. The Lakers didn't go with Kobe b/c he is a superior player, they went with him b/c he was young and dedicated. Shaq was neither of these.


and saying LeBron was drafted as a PG is an outright lie.

[Micku]

wtf? when were Wade & Lebron "rivals"? they only played occasionally in the season.... not even guarding eachother... where they played only like 20 games against eachother in their careers... where Lebron would win & outperform Wade most of the time... they were never rivals..... hell... they were more like the opposite, love birds since day 1, best buddies...

lebron never really had any rival.... the only thing close to a rival to him was probably Carmelo or Kobe... and now maybe Durant will be a rival who knows

Magic and Bird didn't really guard each other usually, and they were rivals to the core. Probably the greatest rivalry in the history of the NBA.

Wade and LBJ had the potential to make a good rivalry, but that all ended when they teamed up.

[24r2]

wade always lose to lebron

[Jimmy2k8]

Exactly! Not only that.... but Lebron would have NOT pissed of any of his teammates either, certainly Shaq would have stayed... and they would have won even more championships....

...

Yeah no. Perhaps you don't remember Shaq's little outburst to Dr.Buss...you know, his bitching episode about a contract extension and that he didn't get it. IIRC, that's one of the reasons why he got shipped. Because Jerry Buss didn't want to pay Shaq 20 mill a year(correct figure right?).

And you're kidding yourself if you think Lebron and Shaq would have won more championships together. After all, it's only fair to say that Lebron would choke in the Finals with Shaq.

[DirtySanchez]

Well....LeBron needs to know that yes those guys where all legends together true. But....they didn't force the situation like he did and Wade was suppose to be his main comp. I think that's what Larry...Mike...n Magic was trying to get at.

[32Dayz]

:oldlol:

riiiiiight.


b/c Shaq wasn't just as much, if not more, to blame for their relationship going sour.

Shaq would have been just as lazy and just as big a prick to LeBron as he was to Kobe.

Shaq was not to blame for the breakup. He is a friendly dude and constantly praised Kobe when they were first put together. From giving him props for trying in the 98 series against the Jazz (even though he failed) to calling him one of the best players in the world in 01 and 02.

The issue was Kobe didnt want to defer to Shaq even though he was the better 0ffensive option and Kobe was a generally ineffecient shooter. He was dumb enough to not give Shaq his 15-20 touches a night which led to Shaq getting upset (and rightfully so). Then he publically badmouths Shaq and the Veterans using the Media despite the fact that they were still contenders and favorites to win the Titles and that most of the issues he was complaining about were from a year prior.

Jerry Buss has publicly stated that Shaq and Him never actually fought or had issues with eachother. Shaq wanted more money because Kobe pissed him off and he wanted to get one over on "him" and even though that is immature its still directly because of Bryants immaturity.

So.. to get along with Shaq u need to give him his 15-20 touches a night and not call him names in the Media... wow thats tough. Kobe sure was a trooper to put up with such insane demands.

Lebron or Wade are unselfish and far more efficient scorers and would never forget to give Shaq his touches and not only would they win more Titles together they most likely wouldn't develop the same issues. Its no coincidence that as Kobe began to take over more and more of the 0ffense and run it less through Shaq the team began to fail. Its no coincidence that the two years before Gasol arrived were pure misery for the Lakers. Running the 0ffense directly through Kobe or primarily through Kobe has never been a winning formula.

Kobe has an unusual personality and many people think he is just a big pr***.
The whole rape trial thing didnt exactly help out either and Kobe had alot of anger from that situation which he dumped directly onto their feud.

If Grandpa Shaq and Wade can practically win 2 Titles together I am sure Prime Shaq + Wade or Prime Shaq + Bron win 4-5 Titles Easily.

The Heat organization was upset that Shaq declined as a player but Shaq and Wade never had any issues with eachother, and certainly Prime Shaq and Wade wouldnt since Shaq would consistently be producing at the level they expect him too. Lebron and Shaq got along great in their time together in cleveland and both have only had kind words for eachother.

Just understand that Kobe has a rough personality and it only grew rougher as his game developed. He needed a soft spanish personality in Gasol for them to co-exist, Kobe + another Alpha would never work.

[RRR3]

Yeah no. Perhaps you don't remember Shaq's little outburst to Dr.Buss...you know, his bitching episode about a contract extension and that he didn't get it. IIRC, that's one of the reasons why he got shipped. Because Jerry Buss didn't want to pay Shaq 20 mill a year(correct figure right?).

And you're kidding yourself if you think Lebron and Shaq would have won more championships together. After all, it's only fair to say that Lebron would choke in the Finals with Shaq.
No, LeBron wouldn't choke with Shaq becuase his role would be to get the ball to Shaq before anything else. He would be the 2nd option.

[32Dayz]

No, LeBron wouldn't choke with Shaq becuase his role would be to get the ball to Shaq before anything else. He would be the 2nd option.

True, and although Kobe closed out a bunch of games and even a series from 00-02 Shaq was still the main closer for the Lakers and I am sure Lebron could find it in him to close out some games in the first 3 rounds of the playoffs those years.

I think we can say Lebron has proven himself as a very clutch player outside of the Finalz.

Shaq has always been the "Closer" in the Finalz which is the only round Lebron seems to struggle in.


Points scored in the 4th Quarter from 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 388
Kobe - 351

Series in which a player was the "Main Closer" 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 3 Series (00 POR, 00 IND, 02 SAC)
Kobe - 1 Series (02 SAS)

[MaxFly]

Yeah no. Perhaps you don't remember Shaq's little outburst to Dr.Buss...you know, his bitching episode about a contract extension and that he didn't get it. IIRC, that's one of the reasons why he got shipped. Because Jerry Buss didn't want to pay Shaq 20 mill a year(correct figure right?).

And you're kidding yourself if you think Lebron and Shaq would have won more championships together. After all, it's only fair to say that Lebron would choke in the Finals with Shaq.

I believe Shaq was asking for close to 30 million.

[Jimmy2k8]

If Grandpa Shaq and Wade can practically win 2 Titles together I am sure Prime Shaq + Wade or Prime Shaq + Bron win 4-5 Titles Easily.

Do you have long term memory loss? I only remember "Grandpa" Shaq and Wade winning 1 title together.

I like how you add the easily part in there. I can play that game as well. Prime Kobe AND Prime Shaq would win 6 titles together. Easily.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Wade and LeBron are funny like that. They think playing next to prime Shaq = guaranteed titles despite the fact playing next to prime Wade AND Bosh or prime LeBron AND Bosh = humiliation 6 months ago.

[HylianNightmare]

well said of him

[32Dayz]

Wade and LeBron are funny like that. They think playing next to prime Shaq = guaranteed titles despite the fact playing next to prime Wade AND Bosh or prime LeBron AND Bosh = humiliation 6 months ago.

Big + Small >>>>>>>>> Small + Small
Prime Shaq >>>>>>>>> Lebron + Bosh

:facepalm

[pegasus]

Big + Small >>>>>>>>> Small + Small
Prime Shaq >>>>>>>>> Lebron + Bosh

:facepalm

Doesn't matter!

Theoretically, Lebron + Wade + Bosh >>>>>> Nowitzki + Terry + Chandler

The only reason Miami lost to the much inferior Dallas, is because Lebron could NOT deliver it. So there is no base as to say that he would have won multiple chips with prime Shaq.

No if's and but's with this guy anymore. You guys cannot rewrite history or write the future. Only he can shut the critics up, and that's by playing like a true leader and bringing the trophy to Miami. Until then, you guys need to STFU.

[guy]

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]
A: Um, well I believe that when Magic was drafted to the Lakers he had Kareem and, as the team was built, James Worthy was part of that team, as was Jamaal Wilkes, and Bob McAdoo so he had four Hall of Famers right there on his team. And Jordan went through his bumps and bruises coming up with Chicago but they were eventually able to draft Scottie Pippen and then they got Horace Grant

[Andrei89]

same way he beat Kobe


oh elite pwned

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Big + Small >>>>>>>>> Small + Small
Prime Shaq >>>>>>>>> Lebron + Bosh

:facepalm

LeBron fans want us to celebrate the greatness of his prime yet but say the most ridiculous things to explain away his teams failures. How is Shaq not the GOAT if he is way better than another prime (not career) all time top 5-10 player and another perennial all star big man?:facepalm

[Lebron23]

Wade and LeBron are funny like that. They think playing next to prime Shaq = guaranteed titles despite the fact playing next to prime Wade AND Bosh or prime LeBron AND Bosh = humiliation 6 months ago.

Same Dallas team that humiliated the defending NBA Champion via sweptttttttttttt in the 2nd round.

If ever the Heat and Lakers meet in the playoffs. Heat are going to send your players into retirement. It won't happen cause the Lakers are F*cking done.

[32Dayz]

LeBron fans want us to celebrate the greatness of his prime yet but say the most ridiculous things to explain away his teams failures. How is Shaq not the GOAT if he is way better than another prime (not career) all time top 5-10 player and another perennial all star big man?:facepalm

Most people agree that Shaq has the greatest or 2nd greatest Prime after Jordan.

I'd take Shaq from 98-02 over anyone except maybe early 90's Jordan.

Shaq has a strong argument as the GOAT as he is the 2nd greatest playoff performer after Jordan but most people rank him from 4-7.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Same Dallas team that humiliated the defending NBA Champion via sweptttttttttttt in the 2nd round.

If ever the Heat and Lakers meet in the playoffs. Heat are going to send your players into retirement.

Kobe and friends are sorry for not meeting your expectations of 4 straight finals and 3 straight championships :oldlol:

[Lebron23]

Kobe and friends are sorry for not meeting your expectations of 4 straight finals and 3 straight championships :oldlol:

No more NBA Championship for the Lakers in this decade. The Western Conference is much better next season.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Most people agree that Shaq has the greatest or 2nd greatest Prime after Jordan.

I'd take Shaq from 98-02 over anyone except maybe early 90's Jordan.

Shaq has a strong argument as the GOAT as he is the 2nd greatest playoff performer after Jordan but most people rank him from 4-7.

and where do you suppose "most people" rank LeBron's prime?

[32Dayz]

If ever the Heat and Lakers meet in the playoffs. Heat are going to send your players into retirement. It won't happen cause the Lakers are F*cking done.

oooh... I would pay so much money to see old Kobe get his butt whipped by Wade/Lebron & friends. :applause:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

No more NBA Championship for the Lakers in this decade. The Western Conference is much better next season.

The Western Conference has been stacked the entirety of Kobe's career. :confusedshrug:

[32Dayz]

The Western Conference has been stacked the entirety of Kobe's career. :confusedshrug:

And so has his team outside of 05-07.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

And so has his team outside of 05-07.

not by historical or even current standards... The Celtics have 4 all stars, the Heat 3, the Lakers 2 :confusedshrug:

[32Dayz]

not by historical or even current standards... The Celtics have 4 all stars, the Heat 3, the Lakers 2 :confusedshrug:

Still Top 3 Supporting Cast.

Miami
Boston
LA

4th = Dallas?

Also Odom is a Star and Artest can play at a Star level at times.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Still Top 3 Supporting Cast.

Miami
Boston
LA

4th = Dallas?

Also Odom is a Star and Artest can play at a Star level at times.

Reality tv stars maybe. Odom and Artest don't compare to guys like Mchale, Bosh, Rodman, Grant, Cooper. Statistically Artest and Fishers are one of the worst starting duos in the league.

[pegasus]

Reality tv stars maybe. Odom and Artest don't compare to guys like Mchale, Bosh, Rodman, Grant, Cooper. Statistically Artest and Fishers are one of the worst starting duos in the league.

So true.:lol

Odom is not a star but a very good player. Artes, at this point of his career, is pretty much a non-factor and a liability on the offensive end. And yes, Artest and Fisher are definitely the worst starting PG & SF duo in the league. They need to shake things up there so badly.

[32Dayz]

Reality tv stars maybe. Odom and Artest don't compare to guys like Mchale, Bosh, Rodman, Grant, Cooper. Statistically Artest and Fishers are one of the worst starting duos in the league.

Odom is a legit no need to bad mouth him.

Artest is inconsistent but provides good defense and like I said he is "capable" of putting up Star like performances at times.

regardless its still a Top 3 Supporting Cast.

[pegasus]

Odom is a legit no need to bad mouth him.

Artest is inconsistent but provides good defense and like I said he is "capable" of putting up Star like performances at times.

regardless its still a Top 3 Supporting Cast.

Wade has a better supporting cast.
Durant has a better supporting cast.
Nowitzki has a better supporting cast.
Duncan has a better supporting cast.
Pierce has a better supporting cast.
Rose has a better supporting cast.

[RRR3]

Wade has a better supporting cast.
Durant has a better supporting cast.
Nowitzki has a better supporting cast.
Duncan has a better supporting cast.
Pierce has a better supporting cast.
Rose has a better supporting cast.
Got it. You're a Kobe stan.:lol None of those players except Wade have better supporting casts.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Odom is my favorite player on the Lakers :confusedshrug:

He was the great in the 09 playoffs and 11 regular season aside from that hes been a consistently slightly above average player.

People just try to prop him up to be something that he is not.

[32Dayz]

Got it. You're a Kobe stan.:lol None of those players except Wade have better supporting casts.

Agreed, Celtic's have a case but none of the others do.

Miami, LA and Boston have the 3 Best Cast's Currently.

[pegasus]

Got it. You're a Kobe stan.:lol None of those players except Wade have better supporting casts.

The way Gasol played all season long last year (not just the playoffs), he is not a top-30 player anymore, let alone top-10-12 like he was in 2010.

It was not a fluke. The guy did not do anything all season, and Phil didn't try to or just couldn't straighten him out. He was unbelievably bad, especially on the defensive end.

They had the worst starting PG & SF duo and almost always injured Bynum, and the disappointing Barnes, Blake, and Brown. So LA didn't really have anyone other than Kobe and surprisingly consistent Odom.

I always watch/record LA games, so this is coming from someone who has seen all of their games last year, not just a couple of highlights from the playoffs.

[32Dayz]

The way Gasol played all season long last year (not just the playoffs), he is not a top-30 player anymore, let alone top-10-12 like he was in 2010.

It was not a fluke. The guy did not do anything all season, and Phil didn't try to or just couldn't straighten him out. He was unbelievably bad, especially on the defensive end.

They had the worst starting PG & SF duo and almost always injured Bynum, and the disappointing Barnes, Blake, and Brown. So LA didn't really have anyone other than Kobe and surprisingly consistent Odom.

I always watch/record LA games, so this is coming from someone who has seen all of their games last year, not just a couple of highlights from the playoffs.

Kobe was just as bad if not worse then Gasol in the playoffs in 2011.
The fact that he is the teams leader and he forced the 0ffense to run through him despite his poor shooting only means he should shoulder more of the blame.

lol @ Kobe fans dissing Gasol in 2011 considering how bad he played.

Also the painfully horrid defense played by Kobe and Fisher was one of the main reason Dallas owned them so bad.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Kobe was just as bad if not worse then Gasol in the playoffs in 2011.
The fact that he is the teams leader and he forced the 0ffense to run through him despite his poor shooting only means he should shoulder more of the blame.

lol @ Kobe fans dissing Gasol in 2011 considering how bad he played.

Also the painfully horrid defense played by Kobe and Fisher was one of the main reason Dallas owned them so bad.

Yeah Kobe and Fisher really dropped the ball when it came to defending

Dirk ( 11 for 22, 9 for 16, 12 for 19, 7 for 11) :oldlol:

[32Dayz]

Yeah Kobe and Fisher really dropped the ball when it came to defending

Dirk ( 11 for 22, 9 for 16, 12 for 19, 7 for 11) :oldlol:

Its far less embarrassing to be outplayed by Dirk then to be owned by Grandpa Kidd, Jason Terry, DeShawn Stevenson and Shawn Marion.