***Shaq VS Hakeem 1993-1995***

[32Dayz]

Shaq faced Hakeem in the 1995 Finalz in one of the greatest Center battles in the history of the game.
Most people believe Hakeem "slightly" outplayed Shaq in that series.

So how else can we compare these 2 legendary Centers?
Hakeem and Shaq met 6 times in the regular season from 93-95.

Hakeem VS Shaq
1993 - 1995 ||| 6 Games.

Wins / Losses
Orlando = 4-2
Houston = 2-4

Shaq vs Hakeem H2H in these 6 matchups.

Shaq = 23ppg / 14rpg / 3.5apg / 1.5bpg | 59% shooting

Hakeem = 25ppg / 11rpg / 5apg / 3bpg | 46% shooting

[millwad]

Shaq faced Hakeem in the 1995 Finalz in one of the greatest Center battles in the history of the game.
Most people believe Hakeem "slightly" outplayed Shaq in that series.

So, how else can we compare these 2 legendary Centers?
Hakeem and Shaq met 6 times in the regular season from 93-95.

Hakeem VS Shaq
1993 - 1995 ||| 6 Games.

Wins / Losses
Orlando = 4-2
Houston = 2-4

Shaq vs Hakeem H2H in these 6 matchups.

Shaq = 23ppg / 14rpg / 3.5apg / 1.5bpg | 59% shooting

Hakeem = 25ppg / 11rpg / 5apg / 3bpg | 46% shooting

Seriously, you try too hard.. And we don't mean "slightly", we mean that Hakeem outplayed Shaq (which he did) but not with a huge margin...

[32Dayz]

Seriously, you tried to heard.. And we don't mean "slightly", we mean outplayed..

Thats your opinion bro.

I think it was a Wash but even if it wasn't he definitely only "slightly" outplayed Oneal.

What is wrong with comparing the two in other games anyway?
Do not see why that should bother you.

This is Rookie - 3rd year Oneal against Prime Hakeem.

[millwad]

Thats your opinion bro.

I think it was a Wash but even if it wasn't he definitly only "slightly" outplayed Oneal.

What is wrong with comparing the two in other games anyway?
Do not see why that should bother you.

You have a silly agenda, and no one takes you seriosuly.

Look, both Shaq and Hakeem are my favourite centers so taking one over the other really doesn't matter. But you are trolling without knowing it, you are like one of those fanboys who think that spamming about a lie (Shaq "beasting" Hakeem in the finals) will make it true..

[winwin]

http://static8.businessinsider.com/image/4ded4bc849e2aed13c1f0000-400-300/shaq-dominated-the-nba-by-his-second-year-when-he-made-it-all-the-way-to-the-finals.jpg























sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep














-

[32Dayz]

You have a silly agenda.

Look, both Shaq and Hakeem are my favourite centers so taking one over the other really doesn't matter. But you are trolling without knowing it, you are like one of those fanboys who think that spamming about a lie (Shaq "beasting" Hakeem in the finals) will make it true..

Dont assume I have an Agenda because I dont.

Shaq beasted Hakeem the same way Hakeem beasted him.

If you want to pretend this is Golf or MMA Boxing where its 1V1 thats fine but most people know its a team game and Hakeem was not the reason the Rockets beat the Magic, the roleplayers decided that series.

[millwad]

Shaq beasted Hakeem the same way Hakeem beasted him.

If you want to pretend this is Golf or MMA Boxing where its 1V1 thats fine but most people know its a team game and Hakeem was not the reason the Rockets beat the Magic, the roleplayers decided that series.

If a starplayer outplays the starplayer of another team then he's one of the reasons why his team won.

And what kind of crap is that anyway? Hakeem still outplayed Shaq without even putting up a word regarding their teammates. And in that case, BUHU, late 80's MJ couldn't win either due having crappy teammates (much worse than Shaq's)..

The only game in the series where Shaq got the best of Hakeem was in game one, game 2 was easily Hakeem's and so was game 4 and game 3 was a pure wash.. That is outplaying someone, why so butthurt?

[Odinn]

sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep

It's because Hakeem's supporting cast outplayed Shaq's supporting cast so badly. That's why Magic got swept.:cheers:

[millwad]

It's because Hakeem's supporting cast outplayed Shaq's supporting cast so badly. That's why Magic got swept.:cheers:

Hakeem's supporting cast outplayed Shaq's and Hakeem outplayed Shaq. Guys like Horry, Smith and Elie were pure roleplayers, they didn't create their own shot, they hit open shots created by Hakeem. If you've seen anything a la Houston's back to back you'll see that almost every time on offense the ball went through Olajuwon.

[32Dayz]

Shaq outplayed Hakeem from 93-95 in the Regular Season.
Shaq played Hakeem to a Wash in the 1995 Finalz.

This is Rookie-3rd Year Shaq outplaying Prime Hakeem.

Regular Season 1993-1995 : 6 Games
Shaq = 23ppg / 14rpg / 3.5apg / 1.5bpg | 59% shooting
Hakeem = 25ppg / 11rpg / 5apg / 3bpg | 46% shooting

Post Season 1995 : 4 Games
Shaq = 28ppg / 12.5rpg / 6.3apg / 2.5bpg | 60% shooting
Hakeem = 32ppg / 11.5rpg / 5.5apg / 2bpg | 48% shooting

[32Dayz]

Hakeem's supporting cast outplayed Shaq's and Hakeem outplayed Shaq.

Hakeem "slightly" outplayed Shaq and personally I think it was a Wash.
Anyone who watched those games knows the Roleplayers decided that series.

This is a team game and blaming an individual player for a sweep (Shaq) or giving an individual player (Hakeem) the credit for a sweep is retarded as hell.

[PTB Fan]

Young Shaq was pretty great against Hakeem

[millwad]

Hakeem "slightly" outplayed Shaq and personally I think it was a Wash.
Anyone who watched those games knows the Roleplayers decided that series.

This is a team game and blaming an individual player for a sweep (Shaq) or giving an individual player (Hakeem) the credit for a sweep is retarded as hell.

Because you're a Shaq homer, even ShaqAttack on ISH who is the biggest Shaq fan on ISH got annoyed of your homerism..:facepalm

I never freaking blamed Shaq for the loss, I only made it clear that he was outplayed. And yes, Shaq shouldn't be butthurt over the loss because of his teammates betting outplayed because he himself got outplayed as well.

[Odinn]

Hakeem's supporting cast outplayed Shaq's and Hakeem outplayed Shaq.
But the main reason Magic didn't even win a 1 game was the bolded part.


And to the OP;

He is also the GOAT Finalz performer for his position.
2006 Finals hurt Shaq's legacy about that. 14/10/3/1 and 29.2% from the line. And he was at his 34. I mean Kareem won FMVP at his 38 and he deserved it.

I wrote it before. Also Hakeem was at his 33 in 1995 Finals.

[Thorn]

This is a team game and blaming an individual player for a sweep (Shaq) or giving an individual player (Hakeem) the credit for a sweep is retarded as hell.

It's funny that you would say that given that you blamed Kobe for 2004. If it's a team failure, shouldn't Shaq share some of that blame?

[millwad]

Hakeem "slightly" outplayed Shaq and personally I think it was a Wash.
Anyone who watched those games knows the Roleplayers decided that series.

This is a team game and blaming an individual player for a sweep (Shaq) or giving an individual player (Hakeem) the credit for a sweep is retarded as hell.

Haha, Shaq himself considered that he got outplayed, SHAQ HIMSELF. The only one's on ISH I've seen who called it a wash is you and Jlauber and it's not a good thing being associated with Jlauber..:roll:

[millwad]

It's funny that you would say that given that you blamed Kobe for 2004. If it's a team failure, shouldn't Shaq share some of that blame?

Obviously it's all about giving Shaq cred and when he looses it's only because of his teammates..:facepalm

The series would have been closer if the roleplayers of Orlando would have stepped up but still, putting all blame on them is just silly considering the fact that Shaq got outplayed in 2 out of 4 games clearly.

[32Dayz]

But the main reason Magic didn't even win a 1 game was the bolded part.


And to the OP;

2006 Finals hurt Shaq's legacy about that. 14/10/3/1 and 29.2% from the line. And he was at his 34. I mean Kareem won FMVP at his 38 and he deserved it.

I wrote it before. Also Hakeem was at his 33 in 1995 Finals.

Shaq did not have a bad Finalz performance in 06 Odinn.
Shaq is the GOAT Finalz performer based on how he performed in 95,00,01,02 and 04.
06 Shaq was simply way past his Prime, injured and a Shell of his former self (Shaq from 93-04.)
Kareem aged far better then Shaq did so its unfair to compare the two, not everyone declines at the same rate or suffers injurys etc..
He was highly efficient from the field 60+% rebounded well and played good defense and also attracted consistent double teams which opened the floor up for Wade.
He was a big reason why they won he certainly was not a detriment or something.
Taking a back seat to a better player does not make you a bad player and it certainly does not effect his legacy.

[32Dayz]

Obviously it's all about giving Shaq cred and when he looses it's only because of his teammates..:facepalm

The series would have been closer if the roleplayers of Orlando would have stepped up but still, putting all blame on them is just silly considering the fact that Shaq got outplayed in 2 out of 4 games clearly.

And Shaq outplayed Hakeem in 2/4 games (G1 and G3).

And are you really trying to blame Shaq for the 04 Finalz loss?
Dont make me lose all respect for you.

:facepalm

[millwad]

And Shaq outplayed Hakeem in 2/4 games (G1 and G3).

Haha, first of all, Hakeem's game 2 and 4 where clearly more dominant together than Shaq's game 1 performance and no, Shaq didn't outplay Hakeem in game 3, idiot...

I asked you in the previous thread but I only got a "I respect your opinion bla bla answer" just so you wouldn't have to answer this question... What in game 3 that made you consider it as Shaq outplaying Hakeem? Please, share your analyze.. Break down the game and share your analyze..

[millwad]

And Shaq outplayed Hakeem in 2/4 games (G1 and G3).

And are you really trying to blame Shaq for the 04 Finalz loss?
Dont make me lose all respect for you.

:facepalm

Your respect doesn't matter to me, and I don't respect idiots like you at all so go ahead, lose it..

And why the hell do you keep writing "finals" with a "Z"? Are you 13 year old girl?

And no, I'm not blaming Shaq for anything, I am just wondering what's wrong with you...

[32Dayz]

Haha, first of all, Hakeem's game 2 and 4 where clearly more dominant together than Shaq's game 1 performance and no, Shaq didn't outplay Hakeem in game 3, idiot...

I asked you in the previous thread but I only got a "I respect your opinion bla bla answer" just so you wouldn't have to answer this question... What in game 3 that made you consider it as Shaq outplaying Hakeem? Please, share your analyze..

Similar 0ffensive output and far better scoring efficiency.

3 less points then Hakeem but took 13 less shots.

He only "slightly" outplayed him in that game though I thought it was very close.

[jlauber]

Shaq outplayed Hakeem his entire career, even including the year's in which Hakeem was in his so-called prime, ...and he blew him out after that.

This nonsense that somehow Hakeem was a better center than Shaq has to come to an end.

[Odinn]

Shaq did not have a bad Finalz performance in 06 Odinn.
Shaq is the GOAT Finalz performer based on how he performed in 95,00,01,02 and 04.
:oldlol: :oldlol:

Yes. jlauber and you have a chance to be a perfect couple.:lol

[millwad]

Similar 0ffensive output and far better scoring efficiency.

3 less points then Hakeem but took 13 less shots.

He only "slightly" outplayed him in that game though I thought it was very close.

Haha, I am not talking about stats. Statwise they are close in game 2 as well but anyone who actually saw it would know that Hakeem got that game without no doubt.

[jlauber]

In virtually every scenario, Shaq was a better player. Shaq won more rings, had more playoff success, carried teams to much better records, pounded Hakeem H2H, had better W-L record H2H, had far more statistical titles, and was much more dominant in his prime.

[millwad]

Shaq outplayed Hakeem his entire career, even including the year's in which Hakeem was in his so-called prime, ...and he blew him out after that.

This nonsense that somehow Hakeem was a better center than Shaq has to come to an end.

Haha, I knew it.
Now tell us about how you think that Nate Thurmond was a much better player than Hakeem Olajuwon. And please, tell us again about how Shaq clearly outplayed Hakeem in the finals of '95!

Haha, Jlauber, you and 32dayz would make a great couple.

[millwad]

In virtually every scenario, Shaq was a better player. Shaq won more rings, had more playoff success, carried teams to much better records, pounded Hakeem H2H, had better W-L record H2H, had far more statistical titles, and was much more dominant in his prime.


That makes him better than Wilt Chamberlain too, easily.

Come on, Jlauber, give us a couple of essays now we all can scroll over.

[32Dayz]

nvm.

[32Dayz]

Haha, I am not talking about stats. Statwise they are close in game 2 as well but anyone who actually saw it would know that Hakeem got that game without no doubt.

I agree with you there. Hakeem definitely outplayed Shaq in G2.

but I did watch G3 and I thought Shaq was slightly better.

[millwad]

I agree with you there. Hakeem definitely outplayed Shaq in G2.

but I did watch G3 and I thought Shaq was slightly better.

Still you can't break the game down, you said you've seen the game plenty of times, just give me your analyze of the game and prove to me how Shaq outplayed Hakeem in that game.

And I don't mean by FG%, Shaq had better FG% in game 2 and 4 too but no one other than Jlauber (HAHA) gives those games to Shaq.

[32Dayz]

Still you can't break the game down, you said you've seen the game plenty of times, just give me your analyze of the game and prove to me how Shaq outplayed Hakeem in that game.

And I don't mean by FG%, Shaq had better FG% in game 2 and 4 too but no one gives those games to him.

You dont understand.

I can be ok with saying Hakeem "slightly" outplayed Shaq because over the entire series I think he did.

But I watched the series many times and it was very close.
Hakeem did outplay him but it was by a very small margin.

Hakeem got more support from his Roleplayers while Shaq especially in the 4th Quarters had to shoulder the load himself.

Thats why he averaged 11.5ppg in the 4th Quarters over the course of the series which is still a league record for a Finals series.

[jlauber]

Haha, I knew it.
Now tell us about how you think that Nate Thurmond was a much better player than Hakeem Olajuwon. And please, tell us again about how Shaq clearly outplayed Hakeem in the finals of '95!

Haha, Jlauber, you and 32dayz would make a great couple.

Thurmond was better defender (just ask Kareem), and a better rebounder. He was not a better overall player.

I saw the '95 Finals. Shaq was unstoppable...plain-and-simple. 28 ppg on .600 shooting (and while outrebounding Hakeem)! His only flaw was passing the ball, ...and had his teammates not shot so poorly, Shaq's assists would have been considerably higher than his 6.3 apg that he did average.

Furthermore, Hakeem basically built his post-season reputation based on a seven game series in '94, when he carried his favored Rockets to a game seven win over Ewing's Knicks, in a series in which Ewing played poorly offensively, but decently defensively (Hakeem averaged 27 ppg on .500 shooting, with 9 rpg.) And then he absolutely crushed Robinson in four of their six H2H meetings in the '95 playoffs.

But what about his other 13 post-seasons over the course of his 16 other years in the league? EIGHT first-round exits. An AWFUL playoff series in '90 against LA. And getting destroyed by Shaq in the '99 playoffs.

He is BY FAR, the most over-rated player on this forum.

The man won ONE MVP, in a year in which MJ took the season off (and he won a title that year, too.) He came in SECOND in the MVP balloting ONE time. And he finished FOURTH on two more occasions. Think about that...in his EIGHTEEN seasons, Hakeem was considered a top-FOUR player in exactly FOUR of them...with ONE MVP. In fact, he wasn't even considered a top-TEN player in EIGHT of those seasons...or nearly HALF of his career.

[Harison]

To be fair, both superstars played extremely well, main difference between them was Hakeem's clutch performance and defense. Thats why Shaq said Dream "kicked his butt" :cheers:

[millwad]

You dont understand.

I can be ok with saying Hakeem "slightly" outplayed Shaq because over the entire series I think he did.

But I watched the series many times and it was very close.
Hakeem did outplay him but it was by a very small margin.

When did I claim that Shaq got crushed by Hakeem? I've always stated that Hakeem outplayed Shaq but that there is a difference in crushing someone and outplaying someone. People on ISH are way too sensitive about the word "OUTPLAYING", it just means that one player played better than another player and yes, Hakeem played better in '95 than Shaq.

And still you can't break down game 3 at all other than FG%, well, maybe you should see the game again. Not hating, but you went from "Shaq beasted Hakeem" and "it was completely a wash" to "Hakeem slightly outplaying Shaq" in less then 30 minutes.

The game is on youtube, you cant watch it and the rest of the series whenever you want.

Peace.

[millwad]

Thurmond was better defender (just ask Kareem), and a better rebounder. He was not a better overall player.


You said that Thurmond was a better basketball player than Hakeem, you troll.



I saw the '95 Finals. Shaq was unstoppable...plain-and-simple. 28 ppg on .600 shooting (and while outrebounding Hakeem)! His only flaw was passing the ball, ...and had his teammates not shot so poorly, Shaq's assists would have been considerably higher than his 6.3 apg that he did average.


You mean just like you saw "Wilt" play? You even wrote that Hakeem got crushed by Shaq in the finals of '95.. YOU HAVE NO CREDIBILITY..:facepalm



Furthermore, Hakeem basically built his post-season reputation based on a seven game series in '94, when he carried his favored Rockets to a game seven win over Ewing's Knicks, in a series in which Ewing played poorly offensively, but decently defensively (Hakeem averaged 27 ppg on .500 shooting, with 9 rpg.) And then he absolutely crushed Robinson in four of their six H2H meetings in the '95 playoffs.


It's funny, you always spam about Hakeem's lack of post-season success but answer this now, what years did you feel like Hakeem's teams should have made it really further and his teams only lost due him and how he played?



But what about his other 13 post-seasons over the course of his 16 other years in the league? EIGHT first-round exits. An AWFUL playoff series in '90 against LA. And getting destroyed by Shaq in the '99 playoffs.


Oh, and of those eight first round exits, which one of them should he have won with the crappy roleplayers he had by his side? And even mentioning Hakeem getting destroyed at age 36 by Shaq only shows how little you have to come with..:facepalm

[jlauber]

That makes him better than Wilt Chamberlain too, easily.

Come on, Jlauber, give us a couple of essays now we all can scroll over.

I have addressed this many times, but one thing we do KNOW...Shaq badly outplayed Hakeem over the course of their career H2H's.

[millwad]

I have addressed this many times, but one thing we do KNOW...Shaq badly outplayed Hakeem over the course of their career H2H's.

Troll, answer what I really stated in that message.

[jlauber]

Troll, answer what I really stated in that message.

Shaq played 19 seasons, to Wilt's 14. Just in Wilt's LAST two seasons alone, his teams went 69-13 and won a title, and then went 60-22 and went to the Finals, where they lost four close games (ALL decided in the last minute BTW.) Right there I can claim that Wilt probably would have won more titles had he continued to play.

And had Wilt had the good fortune to battle clowns like Smits and Davis (ONE all-star appearance combined), or Collins and MacCullouch, and given the fact that Wilt DESTROYED the non-HOF centers he faced in the post-season...well, he would have won more rings, too.

Chamberlain also faced a HOF center in 99 of his 160 post-season games, and battled the greatest dynasty in major professional sports history in TEN of his 14 seasons...as well as the great Knick team of '70, and the great Bucks' teams of '71 and '72. Even in his last post-season, his Lakers were outgunned by HOFers in the Finals, 6-3.

He also was swept once in the post-season, in a series in which he annihilated his opposing center, while Shaq's TEAMs managed to accomplish that feat SIX times. But, then again, Hakeem TEAMs were blown out in EIGHT first round playoff series, too.

[jlauber]

Of course...back to OP...

Shaq outplayed Hakeem H2H, plain-and-simple. There is simply no denying that fact.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=olajuha01&p2=onealsh01

[32Dayz]

@Lauber

When Shaq got swept in the playoffs it was usually because his supporting Casts sucked bawls and played terribly.

Pretty much every ATGreat has lost 6+ times in the playoffs.

Shaq only once failed to lead his team past the first round while most ATGreats have lost multiple times in the 1st round.

Its better to get swept in the 2nd Round, CNFinalz or Finalz then it is to lose in 5-7 games in the first round.

If Jordan was so great how come he lost 7 times in the playoffs.
How come he got swept 3 times in the first round?
How come he got swept by the Shaq led Magic in 95?

Trying to judge individuals by team failures or even successes is very stupid imo.

Shaq was usually the best player in those series in which they got "swept" outside of maybe 95 and 97.

[jlauber]

@Lauber

When Shaq got swept in the playoffs it was usually because his supporting Casts sucked bawls and played terribly.

Pretty much every ATGreat has lost 6+ times in the playoffs.

Shaq only once failed to lead his team past the first round while most ATGreats have lost multiple times in the 1st round.

Its better to get swept in the 2nd Round, CNFinalz or Finalz then it is to lose in 5-7 games in the first round.

If Jordan was so great how come he lost 7 times in the playoffs.
How come he got swept 3 times in the first round?
How come he got swept by the Shaq led Magic in 95?

Trying to judge individuals by team failures or even successes is very stupid imo.

Shaq was usually the best player in those series in which they got "swept" outside of maybe 95 and 97.

I agree 100%. Of course, Wilt played in 29 post-season series, and was probably never outplayed in ANY of them (even Kareem's '72 WCF's, when virtually EVERYONE who WATCHED that series claimed Wilt outplayed him.)

Wilt was BRILLIANT in his post-seasons, and his teammates generally were AWFUL in his non-title post-seasons. Yet, there are those here who claim that it was WILT who "choked.":facepalm

[Legends66NBA7]

Haha, I knew it.
Now tell us about how you think that Nate Thurmond was a much better player than Hakeem Olajuwon. And please, tell us again about how Shaq clearly outplayed Hakeem in the finals of '95!

Haha, Jlauber, you and 32dayz would make a great couple.

What's this? There's a triangle(third person) in the millwad/jlauber relationship?

This gets better and better. Beats soap opera any day...:ohwell:

[jlauber]

What's this? There's a triangle(third person) in the millwad/jlauber relationship?

This gets better and better. Beats soap opera any day...:ohwell:

When Dickwad gets wiped out by the facts, he resorts to that type of nonsense.

[Legends66NBA7]

When Dickwad gets wiped out by the facts, he resorts to that type of nonsense.

Well, I won't intervene too much into this conversation, because you guys both bring facts and I am actually going to make a thread shortly (which will take time, I encourage you to check it out later, J).

Just thought I would break the tension a little.

Good luck to all you guys in whatever you trying to show each other.

I mean it.

[Fazotronic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h4CzVAQo8I&feature=player_embedded#!

skip to 1:15

/thread

Olajuwon is not a American so he is always gonna be underrated by some ppl in this American sport.

[32Dayz]

He asked Shaq who he thought the best Center was.

Shaq has always put Hakeem first.

That doesn't mean he is putting him over himself.

[Force]

Shaq was doubled and tripled the majority of the time in the finals while Hakeem was played 1 on 1 by either Shaq or Horace Grant. Shaq was the better more dominant player and Houston had the better team. Even with Shaq getting swarmed in the finals his individual stats were better.

[chazzy]

Of course...back to OP...

Shaq outplayed Hakeem H2H, plain-and-simple. There is simply no denying that fact.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=olajuha01&p2=onealsh01
The total averages are misleading because of the sheer amount of games Hakeem played Shaq past his prime

[32Dayz]

The total averages are misleading because of the sheer amount of games Hakeem played Shaq past his prime

Agreed which is why I only posted games between 93-95.

I honestly believe Shaq was the better player by 95.

[jlauber]

Agreed which is why I only posted games between 93-95.

I honestly believe Shaq was the better player by 95.

No doubt. And, the reality was, Hakeem was in his prime in those years, and Shaq was several years away from his overwhelmingly physical peak.

[jlauber]

Hakeem was a great player, and among the most skilled centers of all-time. But he has no case as anywhere near a GOAT player. He does have a resume that would put him somewhere between 8th to 12th all-time. And there is nothing wrong with that. But those that attempt to elevate him beyond those rankings are deluding themselves. He was seldom even regarded at the best player in his OWN era (and the year he won the MVP, came in a year in which MJ took the season off.) Hell, he was seldom even acknowledged as the FOURTH best player inn his career (four times in eighteen seasons.)

He had two remarkable playoff runs, (again, he lucked out when MJ took one of them off), but even in those two playoffs, a young Shaq hung a 28 ppg, .595 Finals, while easily outrebounding him, outassisting him, and outblocking him. My god, to outshoot Hakeem by a .595 to .483 margin speaks volumes.

Again, Hakeem's legacy was basically built by outplaying Ewing in one Finals, and pounding Robinson in another playoff series.

He was a great player, but the reality was, he was never close to being the best scorer in the league. He barely won two rebounding titles, and later in his career, was badly outrebounded in several seasons, by a 6-5 teammate. He was never even remotely close to among the FG% leaders. He was NOT the best shot-blocker of even his OWN era (Eaton easily.) He was a great defensive player, but he couldn't contain a 37-38 year old Kareem (in fact, he was helpless against him.)

He was never a great "winner", either. His team's seldom won 50 games, and his high win season was 58. And, the biggest "black eye"...EIGHT first-round exits in 15 playoff seasons.

Given all of that, how can anyone rank him over the likes of Russell, MJ, Magic, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, and even Duncan. And, the Bird and Kobe fans have legitimate arguments over him, as well. So then it comes down to Oscar and Moses, and while I would give Hakeem a slight edge, it would only be marginal over either.

[bedZeleiodivy]

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[32Dayz]

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lol wtf. :facepalm

[bedZeleiodivy]

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[bedZeleiodivy]

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[bedZeleiodivy]

So pass the question with you: spend time with games on the net? Why? http://www.jocuri-sportive.com - jocuri sport Would not it be nice to get out the juice?

[ShaqAttack3234]

Agreed which is why I only posted games between 93-95.

I honestly believe Shaq was the better player by 95.

:oldlol: at Shaq being better by '95. Hakeem was obviously the best player in the league that season, that was what the majority thought after we had seen the entire season, and for good reason.

Shaq and Hakeem are very close whether we're comparing peak vs peak(2000 Shaq vs 1994 Hakeem), prime vs prime('98-'02 Shaq vs '93-'96 Hakeem) and extended prime vs extended prime('95-'03 Shaq vs '88-'96 Hakeem).

They're so close that it comes down to a matter of preference.

If you want to talk about head to head, then Hakeem outplayed Shaq in the most important head to head battle, and yes, he did outplay him.

Game 1- Shaq
Game 2- Hakeem(easily)
Game 3- Even
Game 4- Hakeem(easily)

Outplaying Shaq in at least 2 games and playing him at least even in 3, while winning the series in a sweep, outplaying him in most key moments ect. makes Hakeem the clear winner.

Not that head to head games mean all that much, but '94-'96 would be a better stretch to use. This was in 6 games.

Hakeem- 26.8 ppg, 10 rpg, 4.5 apg, 2.5 TO, 3.2 bpg, 46.8 FG%, 52 TS%
Shaq- 24.5 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 3.7 apg, 3.2 TO, 1.2 bpg, 58.4 FG%, 56.9 TS%

Numbers look about even if anything. I don't see why Shaq is favored. He scored more efficiently and rebounded better, but Hakeem scored more points, blocked more shots, had more assists and fewer turnovers.

[Tha Catalyst]

:oldlol: at Shaq being better by '95. Hakeem was obviously the best player in the league that season, that was what the majority thought after we had seen the entire season, and for good reason.

Shaq and Hakeem are very close whether we're comparing peak vs peak(2000 Shaq vs 1994 Hakeem), prime vs prime('98-'02 Shaq vs '93-'96 Hakeem) and extended prime vs extended prime('95-'03 Shaq vs '88-'96 Hakeem).

They're so close that it comes down to a matter of preference.

If you want to talk about head to head, then Hakeem outplayed Shaq in the most important head to head battle, and yes, he did outplay him.

Game 1- Shaq
Game 2- Hakeem(easily)
Game 3- Even
Game 4- Hakeem(easily)

Outplaying Shaq in at least 2 games and playing him at least even in 3, while winning the series in a sweep, outplaying him in most key moments ect. makes Hakeem the clear winner.

Not that head to head games mean all that much, but '94-'96 would be a better stretch to use. This was in 6 games.

Hakeem- 26.8 ppg, 10 rpg, 4.5 apg, 2.5 TO, 3.2 bpg, 46.8 FG%, 52 TS%
Shaq- 24.5 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 3.7 apg, 3.2 TO, 1.2 bpg, 58.4 FG%, 56.9 TS%

Numbers look about even if anything. I don't see why Shaq is favored. He scored more efficiently and rebounded better, but Hakeem scored more points, blocked more shots, had more assists and fewer turnovers.
If anybody argues with this post they are going to end up looking stupid. Props for looking at it without bias, very accurate breakdown. Shaq's prime was probably better than Hakeems, and more dominant, but he wasn't a better player by 95. Even Shaq knows that.

[32Dayz]

@ShaqAttack

Those are just your opinions and you dont back them up very well.

Shaq significantly outplayed Hakeem in their H2H Matchups from 93-95 in the regular season and Hakeem only "slightly" outplayed Shaq in the 95 Finalz series. If anything that still gives Shaq the edge as the better player.

Shaq was a better scorer and rebounder and was in my opinion a better playmaker by 95.

Shaq had a better season in 95, sure Hakeem may have ever so slightly outplayed him in Finalz but that doesn't mean he was the better player.

I am not saying you cant make a strong case for Hakeem being the best player in 95 but if you think the gap between him and Oneal is large your stupid.

This is a team game and the Rockets won that series thanks to the play of their roleplayers not because of Hakeem. And the reverse is true that the Magic lost due to the play of their roleplayers and not because of Oneal.

[G-train]

It's because Hakeem's supporting cast outplayed Shaq's supporting cast so badly. That's why Magic got swept.:cheers:

Magic players didnt perform as Olajuwon guarded Shaq one on one with no double teams, and kept him to reasonable numbers.

[G-train]

For 2 seasons Olajuwon could not be touched. He played perfectly at the 5.

[millwad]

@ShaqAttack

Those are just your opinions and you dont back them up very well.

Shaq significantly outplayed Hakeem in their H2H Matchups from 93-95 in the regular season and Hakeem only "slightly" outplayed Shaq in the 95 Finalz series. If anything that still gives Shaq the edge as the better player.

Shaq was a better scorer and rebounder and was in my opinion a better playmaker by 95.

Shaq had a better season in 95, sure Hakeem may have ever so slightly outplayed him in Finalz but that doesn't mean he was the better player.

I am not saying you cant make a strong case for Hakeem being the best player in 95 but if you think the gap between him and Oneal is large your stupid.

This is a team game and the Rockets won that series thanks to the play of their roleplayers not because of Hakeem. And the reverse is true that the Magic lost due to the play of their roleplayers and not because of Oneal.

Honestly, you are embarrassing yourself right now. You really have no freaking clue, basically everyone owned you today. You couldn't even break down game 3, you clown, you have no credibility..

But I gotta admit, you're pretty funny, at one point when you got it from everyone you became insecure but as soon as the troll Jlauber gave you his support you suddenly got all that lame cockiness back..

[32Dayz]

You couldn't even break down game 3, you clown.

But I gotta admit, you're pretty funny, at one point when you got it from everyone you became insecure but as soon as the troll Jlauber gave you his support you suddenly got all that lame cockiness back..

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/bobcatsplanet/Kobe-U-Mad.jpg

All you can say is "your a clown" or call me names because my arguments are based on facts and logic and you simply cant refute them.

Shaq outplayed Hakeem in their H2H matchups from 93-95 in the regular season. He also was 4-2 against Hakeem and the Rockets.

All this and Shaq was only a Rookie or in his 2nd or 3rd season and Hakeem was in his absolute Prime.

It may bother you that Shaq was already practically as good as Prime Hakeem the moment he set foot in the league but its reality Klown.

By 95 they were Neck and Neck and you can easily make an argument Shaq was better that year.

Anyway its fun making you mad and rant so keep it up.
I dont need approval from idiots like you or your butt buddy nugphag.

[millwad]

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/bobcatsplanet/Kobe-U-Mad.jpg

All you can say is "your a clown" or call me names because my arguments are based on facts and logic and you simply cant refute them.
.

You couldn't do something as easy as breaking down a game, your arguments are just terrible.

Just in a few replies I made you go from "Hakeem got beasted by Shaq in '95" to "the series was a wash" to "Shaq got slightly outplayed by Hakeem" in a matter of 30 minutes. That's the biggest proof of how terrible your "arguments" and "facts" really are.

And I'm not mad, I'm actually enjoying the show, even ShaqAttack who without no doubt got more knowledge about Shaq compared to you thought you had no clue..

[32Dayz]

You couldn't do something as easy as breaking down a game, your arguments are just terrible.

Just in a few replies I made you go from "Hakeem got beasted by Shaq in '95" to "the series was a wash" to "Shaq got slightly outplayed by Hakeem" in a matter of 30 minutes. That's the biggest proof of how terrible your "arguments" and "facts" really are.

And I'm not mad, I'm actually enjoying the show, even ShaqAttack who without no doubt got more knowledge about Shaq compared to you thought you had no clue..

Um, he disagreed with me and we had a discussion. I understand that he believes Hakeem was better but even he knows the gap between the two in 95 wasnt very large and you yourself agree with that also.

The sad thing is that our views arent actually that far apart but the fact that I disagree with you makes you extremely angry and turns you from a normal dude into this trollish angry kid.

Just relax and understand that my views are not ridiculous and even if you think they are I have a right to have them. There are far more outlandish things one could believe then Shaq was Hakeems equal in 95. That is on the very low end you understand what I am saying.

I made logical arguments.
Shaq was better in their H2H matchups from 93-95 and led his teams to more victorys.
Shaq was only "slightly" outplayed in the Finalz.

How are those two opinions not true and stupid?

[Round Mound]

Simple

Shaq usuallly Outplayed Hakeem but Hakeem`s Team Outplayed the Rest of the Magic Squad

[millwad]

Um, he disagreed with me and we had a discussion. I understand that he believes Hakeem was better but even he knows the gap between the two in 95 wasnt very large and you yourself agree with that also.

No one claimed that it was a huge gap..:facepalm

The sad thing is that our views arent actually that far apart but the fact that I disagree with you makes you extremely angry and turns you from a normal dude into this trollish angry kid.


My views are far apart, at the beginning you claimed Shaq beasted Hakeem and that game 3 was Shaq outplaying Hakeem without being able to break the game down and instead of giving me a decent reply you tried to get away from the question by "I don't have a problem with you"-nonsense. And regarding being mad and being a kid, you wrote "STFU" to me when I at first told you that you were wrong.. Haha, trollish angry kid is all about you, kiddo..



I made logical arguments.
Shaq was better in their H2H matchups from 93-95 and led his teams to more victorys.
Shaq was only "slightly" outplayed in the Finalz.

Your arguments only seem to be logical in your own eyes and Jlauber's..
You need to stop with the quotation marks over "slightly", you clearly have no idea what's it for.. And stop writing "finalz", you just look stupid. And no, Shaq wasn't really better in their H2H from 93-95..

[jlauber]

Simple

Shaq usuallly Outplayed Hakeem but Hakeem`s Team Outplayed the Rest of the Magic Squad

EXACTLY. Shaq's teammates, particularly Anderson and Scott, were outplayed. Once again, Shaq made the mistake of PASSING the ball in that series, and despite HORRIBLE shooting from his teammates, he STLL averaged 6.3 apg in that series. Instead, he should have shot-jacked like Hakeem (30 FGAs per game.) Had he taken 116 FGAs, instead of 74, I am certain that the series would have been different.

[32Dayz]

Shaq did "Beast Hakeem"
I never backed down from that.

Its 100% True.

Hakeem also "Beasted Shaq"
Neither had any luck containing eachother.

If you really think Hakeem outplayed Shaq by a significant margin thats fine but I completely disagree.

I think it was practically a Wash but I give Hakeem a small edge.

Can we just agree to disagree instead of having more pointless arguments.

Clearly the stats favor Shaq in their H2H matchups in their 6 regular season games between 93 and 95. Shaq also led his team to a 4-2 record against Houston.

I Know you like Hakeem and I am not trying to diss him but it seems your view of him being better distorts your ability to view what actually happened to a degree.

If Hakeem can be worse statistically but arguably better in more games in the 95 series and be marked down as the better player in that series then why wouldn't Shaq who was statistically better and led his team to more wins and was better in more games against Hakeem in their H2H Regular season matchups not be better like I said?

Your holding Shaq to a double standard and thats unfair and illogical.

[Duncan21formvp]

1993-1995 vs 2000-2002 Shaq is a better debate.

[jlauber]

1993-1995 vs 2000-2002 Shaq is a better debate.

EASILY SHAQ.

[32Dayz]

1993-1995 vs 2000-2002 Shaq is a better debate.

There is no debate there.

00-02 Shaq >>>>>>> Any Version of Hakeem.

:facepalm

93-95 Shaq was already practically 93-95 Hakeem's equal.

[Dbrog]

:oldlol: Millwad always be trollin and gettin owned. It's unfortunate too since I think he actually knows a lot about the game but can't see other people's point of view :rockon:

[millwad]

:oldlol: Millwad always be trollin and gettin owned. It's unfortunate too since I think he actually knows a lot about the game but can't see other people's point of view :rockon:

How did I troll?
I replied to 32dayz and I got him directly. The dude went from "Shaq beasted Hakeem" to "it was a a complete wash" to "Shaq got slightly outplayed by Hakeem" in a matter of 30 minutes.

What did I troll about and please tell me, who owned me? Sometimes I mess a little bit too much with Jlauber but the guy's obsession is just hilarious.

[32Dayz]

You didnt "get me"

I said Shaq "beasted Hakeem" and he did.
Hakeem also "beasted" Shaq.

You may have slightly changed my opinion but the difference between "slightly outplaying someone" and a "Wash" is practically nothing.

It was almost a Wash, I only give the smallest of edges to Hakeem.

[G-train]

There is no debate there.

00-02 Shaq >>>>>>> Any Version of Hakeem.

:facepalm

93-95 Shaq was already practically 93-95 Hakeem's equal.

Plenty of debate there. Plenty.
More to basketball than overpowering yourself to 30/12.
Much more.

[32Dayz]

Plenty of debate there. Plenty.
More to basketball than overpowering yourself to 30/12.
Much more.

:facepalm

Shaq was one of the most skilled Big's ever. Obviously he was less skilled then say Hakeem, Kareem or Duncan but he is still on the very short list of Most Skilled ever at his position.

He was one of the best passers ever at the C Position.
He had a number of very accurate almost unblockable hook shots that went out to 10-12 feet, a bunch of beautiful spin moves and some of the best footwork, ballcontrol, soft touch and coordination ever for a bigman to go along with his overpowering strength and athleticism.

@ Idiots thinking he just pushed people and dunked, only 25-27% of his career points came off Dunks.

[BlackJoker23]

hakeem>prime shaq and it aint even close. hakeem would phucking destory shaq as long as kobe aint there

[Dbrog]

How did I troll?
I replied to 32dayz and I got him directly. The dude went from "Shaq beasted Hakeem" to "it was a a complete wash" to "Shaq got slightly outplayed by Hakeem" in a matter of 30 minutes.

What did I troll about and please tell me, who owned me?

Technically he said Shaq beasted Hakeem and Hakeem beasted Shaq and there can be a case that says Shaq outplayed Hakeem (which there is). You just always seem to end up posting a lot more about things unrelated to basketball. For instance, instead of making a post asking for a person to break the games down and give an in-depth analysis without using stats, you should post an analysis of your own and ask them to dispute it. That's how people in the real world talk about basketball (I think it's good that you are pushing for those types of discussions btw). It's one of the reasons I think so many people on here enjoy KBlaze's posts.

[32Dayz]

hakeem>prime shaq and it aint even close. hakeem would phucking destory shaq as long as kobe aint there

:bowdown:

Words of Wisdom from the Smartest Poster on Ish.

[G-train]

I wonder how may posters here watched the 1995 NBA finals live.
I watched every game at least 5 times. Which is only 20 games. :D
Plus I watched most of the entire playoffs.

I wonder how many posters were over 5 years old at the time?

How many posters have watched the games in their entirety since?

How many posters are relying on just stats?

:rolleyes:

[32Dayz]

I wonder how may posters here watched the 1995 NBA finals live.
I watched every game at least 5 times. Which is only 20 games. :D
Plus I watched most of the entire playoffs.

I wonder how many posters were over 5 years old at the time?

How many posters have watched the games in their entirety since?

How many posters are relying on just stats?

:rolleyes:

I have watched the series with my own eyes, its been awhile but back then I thought it was a Wash.

I specifically remember thinking how screwed Hakeem would have been if his Role Players hadn't played so well and stepped up in key moments. I also remembered thinking that most of Shaqs roleplayers outside of Penny played like garbage.

props to Dbrog who made some really good points, I will do my own anylsis of the games to prove my points.

[G-train]

:facepalm

Shaq was one of the most skilled Big's ever. Obviously he was less skilled then say Hakeem, Kareem or Duncan but he is still on the very short list of Most Skilled ever at his position.

He was one of the best passers ever at the C Position.
He had a number of very accurate almost unblockable hook shots that went out to 10-12 feet, a bunch of beautiful spin moves and some of the best footwork, ballcontrol, soft touch and coordination ever for a bigman to go along with his overpowering strength and athleticism.

@ Idiots thinking he just pushed people and dunked, only 25-27% of his career points came off Dunks.

90% of his points were size related.
Yes he was very skilled also.

But his constant uncalled offensive fouls that he got away with was just pathetic.

[G-train]

I have watched the series with my own eyes, its been awhile but back then I thought it was a Wash.

I specifically remember thinking how screwed Hakeem would have been if his Role Players hadn't played so well and stepped up in key moments. I also remembered thinking that most of Shaqs roleplayers outside of Penny played like garbage.

props to Dbrog who made some really good points, I will do my own anylsis of the games to prove my points.

:roll: You haven't watched shit troll.

[32Dayz]

90% of his points were size related.
Yes he was very skilled also.

But his constant uncalled offensive fouls that he got away with was just pathetic.

and "uncalled foul" is not a foul.
Only retards or biased haters use the ref's as an excuse for why a player was good or why they think he wasnt.


Posting someone up using superior strength is not an 0ffensive foul.
Size is part of athletism you cant fault a player for using it to his advantage. He had practically unblockable accurate turn around hook shots that went out to 10-12 feet which he used on a consistent basis.

How is that size related?

[32Dayz]

:roll: You haven't watched shit troll.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm5isjQc5m1qkphnqo1_400.jpg

[BlackJoker23]

hakeem shitted on shaq in 95. nikka was probably going easy on him

[32Dayz]

hakeem shitted on shaq in 95. nikka was probably going easy on him

Yea, they were represented by the same agent, he was probably forced to.

[millwad]

Technically he said Shaq beasted Hakeem and Hakeem beasted Shaq and there can be a case that says Shaq outplayed Hakeem (which there is). You just always seem to end up posting a lot more about things unrelated to basketball. For instance, instead of making a post asking for a person to break the games down and give an in-depth analysis without using stats, you should post an analysis of your own and ask them to dispute it. That's how people in the real world talk about basketball (I think it's good that you are pushing for those types of discussions). It's one of the reasons I think so many people on here enjoy KBlaze's posts.

You are actually right man, and I appreciate your feedback.
And honestly, I've watched ALOT of basketball and I grew up with a basketball and I've spent my whole life playing basketball, played for the youth nationalteam and currently I'm playing in the swedish basketball league so I have always been really serious about basketball.

I like to think that my basketball background has given me another way to think about basketball. When I see a game, it may even be a youth game I never just watch the boxscore or who scores most or who grabs the most rebounds. I often feel like people are getting to obsessed with the boxscore and the art of breaking down games completely gets lost. Just because someone got outscored or outrebounded doesn't mean you got outplayed, to analyze a game outside the boxscore is the best way to go by if you want to know the truth about the actual game.

That was why I asked the guy to give me his analyze regarding game 3 to actually see if he knew what he was talking about and if he even saw the series to start with. I doubt he ever saw the series after this thread.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback, gonna think about it!

Peace.

[BlackJoker23]

Yea, they were represented by the same agent, he was probably forced to.
nah bro hakeems agent prolly told him to go EZ since it was shaqs first time going to the finals. dont wanna get shit on too hard. good thing kobe was there carry shaqs worthless ass in la. three straight cause of kobe and that clown says im mde:facepalm

[Dbrog]

snip

:cheers:

[ShaqAttack3234]

@ShaqAttack

Those are just your opinions and you dont back them up very well.

:rolleyes:


Shaq significantly outplayed Hakeem in their H2H Matchups from 93-95 in the regular season and Hakeem only "slightly" outplayed Shaq in the 95 Finalz series. If anything that still gives Shaq the edge as the better player.

What? First of all, Shaq did not significantly outplay him.

And if you're basing your argument on who the better player was on head to head match ups(which in itself is flawed), then the finals would hold more significance than a few regular season games? I agree that Shaq wasn't destroyed, but Hakeem's skill set and experience was a factor and he did get the better of Shaq whether you want to say slightly or not.

And I'm not quite sure why you're including '93 when Shaq was not comparable to Dream as a player. Which isn't a put down, he was a rookie. And I can't believe that I have to add to my statements that these aren't knocks against Shaq when my name here is ShaqAttack. :facepalm


Shaq was a better scorer and rebounder and was in my opinion a better playmaker by 95.

Better rebounder? Sure, I'll go with that. Better scorer? No. If we're talking peak Shaq then I'd agree, but just compare what Hakeem and Shaq did throughout the entire '95 playoffs. Dream averaged 33 per game and Shaq averaged 26. Dream was just unbelievable, the type of playoff run that we rarely see. Just go watch that run series by series and you'll see what I mean.

Playmaker? No, Dream was better at that stage. Shaq made great strides in that aspect of the game, both in '95 and as his career progressed, as well as significant improvements in his low post game in '95, but the Rockets offense was pretty much Hakeem drawing a crowd and finding the open man. He was passing the ball extremely well himself. Houston perfected that attack thanks to Dream's passing ability. I do think that peak Shaq was a slightly better passer, btw.


Shaq had a better season in 95, sure Hakeem may have ever so slightly outplayed him in Finalz but that doesn't mean he was the better player.

Better season depends on circumstances such as the team. The Rockets rarely played regular season games with their top 3 players at the same time after the Drexler trade. Horry missed a ton of time and Hakeem went down around this time as well, making it almost impossible to win when they had to adjust, depth wasn't the '95 Rockets strength and they relied so heavily on Hakeem. That's why they were 3-7 without him.

So if Shaq's regular season was more impressive to you due to wins/numbers, that's fine. But I place more value on what they did in the playoffs.


I am not saying you cant make a strong case for Hakeem being the best player in 95 but if you think the gap between him and Oneal is large your stupid.

It wasn't large in the sense that neither could be the best player on any given night they matched up, or that one was on 1 level above the other. It was more of a case of when honestly evaluating what Dream accomplished, the level he played at and what he brought to the court in '95 vs what O'Neal did, Hakeem is the clear choice.

I have Shaq as the 2nd best player in '95, some would argue Robinson above him, but I think that Dream was the only player better at that time. And '95 Dream would be better than most players.


This is a team game and the Rockets won that series thanks to the play of their roleplayers not because of Hakeem. And the reverse is true that the Magic lost due to the play of their roleplayers and not because of Oneal.

This is true to some extent, game 1 in particular, or game 3 to some extent when Horry sealed the game with the backbreaking 3. But what about game 2? Shaq was in foul trouble most of the first half after tyring to play Hakeem 1 on 1 while Hakeem dominated him that half leading to a big lead as Houston took control and Orlando never mounted a serious threat in the second half. Shaq wound up with a similar or better statline, but Hakeem completely controlled the game and match up. That was a critical game.

Shaq didn't lose his team the series and didn't play poorly, but the Hakeem/Shaq match up was one of the factors.

It's not a big deal and doesn't diminish Shaq. Hakeem was playing out of this world basketball and Shaq was a 3rd year player still maturing and in the first year of what I'd call his extended prime('95-'03) with his true prime being '98-'02.

[G-train]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm5isjQc5m1qkphnqo1_400.jpg

its apparent that you are mad

[G-train]

and "uncalled foul" is not a foul.
Only retards or biased haters use the ref's as an excuse for why a player was good or why they think he wasnt.


Posting someone up using superior strength is not an 0ffensive foul.
Size is part of athletism you cant fault a player for using it to his advantage. He had practically unblockable accurate turn around hook shots that went out to 10-12 feet which he used on a consistent basis.

How is that size related?

If you watched bball at the time, which you didnt, it was a comment complaint that he was allowed to bully the opponent too much.
I didnt fault him for using size, I stated it was pathetic that he was allowed to get away with alot of the stuff that he did.

[24r2]

nah bro hakeems agent prolly told him to go EZ since it was shaqs first time going to the finals. dont wanna get shit on too hard. good thing kobe was there carry shaqs worthless ass in la. three straight cause of kobe and that clown says im mde:facepalm

QFT

[32Dayz]

If you watched bball at the time, which you didnt, it was a comment complaint that he was allowed to bully the opponent too much.
I didnt fault him for using size, I stated it was pathetic that he was allowed to get away with alot of the stuff that he did.

Thats your opinion then.

The game is reffed the way it is reffed I am not gonna use that as an excuse to degrade any player because that is incredibly stupid.

The game was more physical as you go further back in time so are we gonna fault the bigger stronger players who took advantage like Moses or Reed?

No we arent cause that dumb.

Production and Impact are what they are and if you dont like that a player accomplished those things with a mix of Skill and Power you have only yourself to cry too.

Posting up using strength is not an 0ffensive foul or against the rules.
It may bother you that Shaq is strong and you are a 95 pound weakling who sucks on the court but thats life bruh.

[G-train]

Thats your opinion then.

The game is reffed the way it is reffed I am not gonna use that as an excuse to degrade any player because that is incredibly stupid.

The game was more physical as you go further back in time so are we gonna fault the bigger stronger player who took advantage like Moses or Reed?

No we arent cause that dumb.

Production and Impact are what they are and if you dont like that a player accomplished those things with a mix of Skill and Power you have only yourself to cry too.

Posting up using strength is not an 0ffensive foul or against the rules.
It may bother you that Shaq is strong and you are a 95 pound weakling who sucks on the court but thats life bruh.

Of course its my opinion.
Its also my opinion that no other huge player got away with that.
This is also the opinion of most NBA coaching staff at the time.

[32Dayz]

Of course its my opinion.
Its also my opinion that no other huge player got away with that.
This is also the opinion of most NBA coaching staff at the time.

lol?

Please show me sources of the NBA coaching staff saying that.

And yeah I am sure Shaq paid off the ref's or he got them laid or something and that's why they gave him special treatment. :lol