The Kobe Bryant vs. Dwayne Wade debate should never be brought up again.

[GilZero]

Kobe Bryant vs. Dwayne Wade is a ridiculous argument to start with, and I for one wish that it is never brought up again, even though it happens a couple of times a season.

Prime? Kobe.
Individual accolades? Kobe.
Offense? Kobe.
Defense? Arguable.
Team success? Kobe.
Highlights? Kobe.
Longevity? Kobe.
Dominance? Kobe.

That is all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLqIIbic3X8&feature=related
:cheers:

[MichaelCheazley]

I actually think wade has had more highlight plays while playing half the amount of time. Mix makers have constantly say Dwayne wade is hardest to make a mix of due to the vast amount of selection.

[EnoughSaid]

All time, it's Kobe. Right now and since 08-09, it's been Wade.

[Vertical-24]

All time, it's Kobe. Right now and since 08-09, it's been Wade.

Arguably since 2009-2010 season but not earlier than that. And i'm a Wade fan by the way.

Kobe > Wade
Wade had a slightly better 2011 season but nothing that significant.

[EnoughSaid]

Anyone who says Wade > Kobe all time is trolling.

[Legends66NBA7]

Anyone who says Wade > Kobe all time is trolling.

Classic Doctor Rivers.

[EnoughSaid]

Classic Doctor Rivers.

Doctor Rivers is a boss though. :lol

[G-Funk]

Defense??? Prime Kobe gots him beat by a good margin

[Heavincent]

Right now and since 08-09, it's been Wade.

Wade was better in 2010-2011, I'll give you that. But Kobe was definitely better in 08-09 and 09-10.

[G-Funk]

Wade was better in 2010-2011, I'll give you that. But Kobe was definitely better in 08-09 and 09-10.
This

[32Dayz]

Prime? Wade. (Playoffs (06) (Regular Season (09)
Individual accolades? Kobe.
Offense? Wade.
Defense? Wade.
Longevity? Kobe.
Dominance? Wade.

That is all.


Thats just your opinion, I think Wade is by far the better playoff performer between the two and better on both sides of the floor.
Although he lacks Kobe's 3pt range he is a far better slasher and passer and has a higher BBIQ. He makes better decisions on the court.
His skillset and ability translates better against tough defenses and in the Finals.

The only think Kobe has over Wade is longevity at this point, if Wade has 4-5 Elite Seasons he will surpass Kobe on my ATList.

Wade is a better defender then Kobe ever was.
Wade has easily been better since 09

[32Dayz]

Wade : Post Season - PER
Peak : 29.4
Top 5 : 26.64
Top 7 : 24.5

----------------------------

Kobe : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.8
Top 5 : 24
Top 7 : 23


Number of seasons with DRTG lower then 105
Kobe = 5
Wade = 6

Number of seasons with 4+ Defensive WShares
Kobe = 5
Wade = 5

Total seasons played

Kobe = 15
Wade = 8

Career BPG//SPG
Kobe = .5 // 1.5
Wade = 1 // 1.7


Not to mention Wade regularly destroys the tough defensive teams (Detroit, Boston) that Kobe struggles against.

Not to mention Wade is a better Playoff and FAR better Finalz performer.

Kobe does nothing better then Wade except for 3PT Shooting.

Prime Wade > Prime Kobe

The Homers cant accept that Kobe is being surpassed by Wade but the average NBA Fan knows that Wade is the better player, he has proved it with his play.

[chips93]

Kobe Bryant vs. Dwayne Wade is a ridiculous argument to start with, and I for one wish that it is never brought up again, even though it happens a couple of times a season.


. . . it sounds like you just brought up the kobe-wade debate again . . .

[Smoke117]

Anyone who uses "highlights" as one of his criteria as to why one player is better than another player has already failed at any kind of argument he is trying to make.

[Sarcastic]

Isn't Wade about to win 8 rings in a row?

[32Dayz]

I for one wish that it is never brought up again.

The irony is strong.

[Duncan21formvp]

All time, it's Kobe. Right now and since 08-09, it's been Wade.
This

[Kiarip]

This

09-10

[32Dayz]

Wade has obviously been better since 09.

Career wise Bryant is better due to longevity but Wade will surpass him with 4-5 more Elite Seasons.

He is already a better Playoff and Finalz performer over 1, 5 and 7 Year periods.

[BlackJoker23]

kobe>wade since 04-10 easily. lol at dwhistle barely being better than past his prime injured kobe. greatness of the mamba:bowdown:

[24r2]

only on ISH where wade > kobe

[HylianNightmare]

gimme kobe

[rodman91]

Prime? Kobe.
Individual accolades? Kobe.
Offense? Kobe.
Defense? Arguable.
Team success? Kobe.
Highlights? Kobe.
Longevity? Kobe.
Dominance? Kobe.


I'm not fan of both. But i think except individual accolades, it's all arguable so far.


Kobe had much more flashy career compared to Wade though. I don't think Wade will be remembered that much unless if they go berserk on championships as Lebron said.:D

[BlackJoker23]

I'm not fan of both. But i think except individual accolades, it's all arguable so far.


Kobe had much more flashy career compared to Wade though. I don't think Wade will be remembered that much unless if they go berserk on championships as Lebron said.:D
it aint arguable:facepalm

[Dbrog]

Defense??? Prime Kobe gots him beat by a good margin

What? How so? Wade is a fantastic defender (granted I think he's better when helping rather than man-to-man). He's got those sick blocks from behind and is great at stealing when he's cutting past the ball handler. I think Kobe might be the more solid defender though in terms of usually getting a hand right in his opponent's face (won't show up in the boxscore). Wade is definitely the better blocker though. Both players gamble a bit too much for my liking (Wade recovers better). Overall, I would say it's an extremely small margin between them and could probably be argued either way.

[32Dayz]

Wade > Kobe 0ffensively.
Wade > Kobe Defensively.
Wade > Kobe in the Clutch
Wade >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe as a Finals Performer.
Wade >>>>> Kobe against tough defensive teams like Detroit or BOS.
Wade > Kobe as a playoffs performer.

Prime Wade > Prime Kobe.

The only think Kobe has over Wade is 3PT Shooting.

with 4 or 5 more Elite Seasons Wade will surpass Kobe on the GOAT List.

Wade : Post Season - PER
Peak : 29.4
Top 5 : 26.64
Top 7 : 24.5

----------------------------

Kobe : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.8
Top 5 : 24
Top 7 : 23


Number of seasons with DRTG lower then 105
Kobe = 5
Wade = 6

Number of seasons with 4+ Defensive WShares
Kobe = 5
Wade = 5

Total seasons played

Kobe = 15
Wade = 8

Career BPG//SPG
Kobe = .5 // 1.5
Wade = 1 // 1.7


Not even close.
Wade is slowly but surely surpassing Kobe as the 2nd Greatest SG of all time.
Its inevitable at this point unless Wade suffers a Career ending injury.

[BlackJoker23]

Wade > Kobe 0ffensively.
Wade > Kobe Defensively.
Wade > Kobe in the Clutch
Wade >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe as a Finals Performer.
Wade >>>>> Kobe against tough defensive teams like Detroit or BOS.
Wade > Kobe as a playoffs performer.

Prime Wade > Prime Kobe.

The only think Kobe has over Wade is 3PT Shooting.

with 4 or 5 more Elite Seasons Wade will surpass Kobe on the GOAT List.

Wade : Post Season - PER
Peak : 29.4
Top 5 : 26.64
Top 7 : 24.5

----------------------------

Kobe : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.8
Top 5 : 24
Top 7 : 23



Not even close.
lol at this queer troll. keep sucking shaqs dick phaget. kobe shits on both wade and shaq. kobe would have phucking raped the 06 heat if tim thomas doesnt make that 3 in 06. mamba was on his way to the finals to shit on wade. aint no free throw holiday for dwhistle when he be getting locked down by DA MAMBA

[24r2]

Wade > Kobe 0ffensively.
Wade > Kobe Defensively.
Wade > Kobe in the Clutch
Wade >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe as a Finals Performer.
Wade >>>>> Kobe against tough defensive teams like Detroit or BOS.
Wade > Kobe as a playoffs performer.

Prime Wade > Prime Kobe.

The only think Kobe has over Wade is 3PT Shooting.

with 4 or 5 more Elite Seasons Wade will surpass Kobe on the GOAT List.

Wade : Post Season - PER
Peak : 29.4
Top 5 : 26.64
Top 7 : 24.5

----------------------------

Kobe : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.8
Top 5 : 24
Top 7 : 23



Not even close.
Wade is slowly but surely surpassing Kobe as the 2nd Greatest SG of all time.
Its inevitable at this point unless Wade suffers a Career ending injury.

:oldlol: :oldlol:

this fool need a doctor

[32Dayz]

lol at this queer troll. keep sucking shaqs dick phaget. kobe shits on both wade and shaq. kobe would have phucking raped the 06 heat if tim thomas doesnt make that 3 in 06. mamba was on his way to the finals to shit on wade. aint no free throw holiday for dwhistle when he be getting locked down by DA MAMBA

"DA MAMBA" in 06 was out by the first round as usual without a Dominant Big to suck off while DWade was having a better playoff run and Finals performance then Kobe could ever dream of having.

http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww341/RhettManuel23/U-MAD-WE-STYLIN-1.jpg

:lol

[Dbrog]

lol at this queer troll. keep sucking shaqs dick phaget. kobe shits on both wade and shaq. kobe would have phucking raped the 06 heat if tim thomas doesnt make that 3 in 06. mamba was on his way to the finals to shit on wade. aint no free throw holiday for dwhistle when he be getting locked down by DA MAMBA

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[32Dayz]

lol I think BlackJoker is mentally challenged.

Also BJ = 24r2

[Dbrog]

fakkit u mad?

shaq=moe







next

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lQW-FWMcBo

[BlackJoker23]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHGleTaT2x4

kobe locking down dwhistle. notice how wade couldnt do shit against kobe's full court d and ended up traveling. thats goat level intensity unmatched by anyone to ever play

[BlackJoker23]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lQW-FWMcBo
1 more than shaq bytch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TRyS9RjDO4

[32Dayz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHGleTaT2x4

kobe locking down dwhistle. notice how wade couldnt do shit against kobe's full court d and ended up traveling. thats goat level intenssity unmatched by anyone to ever play

http://recentissuetoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Jason-Terry-Against-Kobe-Bryant.jpg

Jason Terry owning Kobe in route to a Sweep.

:applause:

Playoff PER

A's (Main Star) :
Shaq (00-02) : 29
Jordan (91-93 + 96-98) : 28.53

B's (Side-Kicks) :
Kobe (00-02) : 21
Pippen (91-93 + 96-98) : 19.5

The difference is clear and obvious.

[Dbrog]

1 more than shaq bytch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TRyS9RjDO4

2 things:

1) Shaq IS a little bytch. He always has been. Should actually change his name to "Shaq Bytch" :lol . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-IRU0H9DOc&feature=related

2) Most of Kobe's rings came from playing with Shaq (although Kobe was good in those series...just not as good) :confusedshrug:

[32Dayz]

How is Kobe putting his hand on Shaq's chest shoving him?
I hope your joking dude. :facepalm

If he tried to push him Shaq would have broken the dudes arm he aint stupid.

[Dbrog]

How is Kobe putting his hand on Shaq's chest shoving him?

If he tried to push him Shaq would have broken the dudes arm he aint stupid.

Ya it's not. Have no idea about the person who posted it ridiculous agenda. I just posted it to show Shaq overreacting to something...like he always did/does.

In fairness, ya I guess Shaq was/is more of a crybaby/bully than a bytch (like Garnett)

[32Dayz]

Ya it's not. Have no idea about the person who posted it ridiculous agenda. I just posted it to show Shaq overreacting to something...like he always did/does.

Shaq has always hated Kobe, the two are oil in water but in reality he has gotten along well with 99% of the people he has come in contact with.

Really just Kobe and Riley were ever reported to have actual beef with the dude and Riley has publicly said nice things about Shaq in the media recently about how he helped them win their championship etc.

[BlackJoker23]

2 things:

1) Shaq IS a little bytch. He always has been. Should actually change his name to "Shaq Bytch" :lol . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-IRU0H9DOc&feature=related

2) Most of Kobe's rings came from playing with Shaq (although Kobe was good in those series...just not as good) :confusedshrug:
bro kobe didnt have the luxury of traveling and running over his defenders every trip down the floor. shaq was the golden boy. refs didnt call shit on him and bean carried his fat no free throw making ass in the 4th. shaqs whole career has an asterisk on it. he was shitted on by a lot of big guys. ben wallace, hakeem, duncan all those guys took turns flushing his bald ass down the toilet

i agree with the first point tho. real shit. shaq is a little bytch

[32Dayz]

bean carried his ass in the 4th.

:lol

You wish.

Points scored in the 4th Quarter from 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 388
Kobe - 351

Series in which a player was the "Main Closer" 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 3 Series (00 POR, 00 IND, 02 SAC)
Kobe - 1 Series (02 SAS)

Kobe always let Shaq carry him even in the 4th.
He was nothing but Pippen to Shaq's Jordan and thats being generous.

-----------------------------------------

Playoff PER

A's (Main Star) :
Shaq (00-02) : 29
Jordan (91-93 + 96-98) : 28.53

B's (Side-Kicks) :
Kobe (00-02) : 21
Pippen (91-93 + 96-98) : 19.5

The difference is clear and obvious.

http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/web03/2011/2/18/15/u-mad-11518-1298062748-1.jpg

[Dbrog]

:lol

You wish.

Points scored in the 4th Quarter from 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 388
Kobe - 351

Series in which a player was the "Main Closer" 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 3 Series (00 POR, 00 IND, 02 SAC)
Kobe - 1 Series (02 SAS)

-----------------------------------------

Playoff PER

A's (Main Star) :
Shaq (00-02) : 29
Jordan (91-93 + 96-98) : 28.53

B's (Side-Kicks) :
Kobe (00-02) : 21
Pippen (91-93 + 96-98) : 19.5

The difference is clear and obvious.

That fool's trollin if he really thinks Kobe was better than Shaq on those Laker Squads (or ever for that matter). I wouldn't even care if the stats didn't favor Shaq. He still affected the game significantly more than Kobe with his size and paint intimidation. I don't know how this is even debatable.

[32Dayz]

That fool's trollin if he really thinks Kobe was better than Shaq on those Laker Squads (or ever for that matter). I wouldn't even care if the stats didn't favor Shaq. He still affected the game significantly more than Kobe with his size and paint intimidation. I don't know how this is even debatable.

It's not

Shaq from 95-04 was better then Kobe at his Absolute Peak by a pretty significant margin.

Shaq : Post Season - PER
Peak : 31
Top 5 : 30
Top 7 : 29.56
Top 10 : 28.52 <-----
Top 13 : 26.55

---------------------------

Kobe : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.8 <-----
Top 5 : 24
Top 7 : 23
Top 10 : 22.98
Top 13 : 21.62

Shaq was the best player on his team 13/14 years.
Kobe was the best player on his team 7/14 years.

[BlackJoker23]

That fool's trollin if he really thinks Kobe was better than Shaq on those Laker Squads (or ever for that matter). I wouldn't even care if the stats didn't favor Shaq. He still affected the game significantly more than Kobe with his size and paint intimidation. I don't know how this is even debatable.
of course u dont think its debatable. youre a shaq nut-hugger just like that kunt 32dayz. shaq knew whats up.

kobe best player in the league in 01 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRewC5ZJ-XA

bean better since 01 and counting


owning dumb clown ass phaget idiots on this forum since dec 10











next

[L8k3r5]

"DA MAMBA" in 06 was out by the first round as usual without a Dominant Big to suck off while DWade was having a better playoff run and Finals performance then Kobe could ever dream of having.

http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww341/RhettManuel23/U-MAD-WE-STYLIN-1.jpg

:lol
http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo127/DParker75089/TheStupidIsStrongWithThisOne.jpg

[32Dayz]

owning dumb clown ass phaget idiots on this forum since dec 10




http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/web03/2011/2/18/15/u-mad-11518-1298062748-1.jpg

:lol :lol :lol

[32Dayz]

I wish I could swallow Kobe's semen.

:lol

Shaq >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobrick
Wade >>> Kobrick

Stay mad.

[L8k3r5]

lmao u could say that about every post he's ever made.

32days getting bytchslapped by every single person on this forum since sep 11
Basically this. Both he and Pauk pollute this forum with more trolls than it already needs.

[32Dayz]

Basically this. Both he and Pauk pollute this forum with more trolls than it already needs.

If you want this Forum to have less Trolls you and that pathetic creature BJ should unplug your computers.

Your both considered a joke on Ish outside of your Kobe Stan Circle Jerk Club.

Anyway you two make a good couple have fun!

I'm out.

:oldlol:

[L8k3r5]

If you want this Forum to have less Trolls you and that pathetic creature BJ should unplug your computers.

Your both considered a joke on Ish outside of your Kobe Stan Circle Jerk Club.

:oldlol:
I'm not Nick Young or other Kobe **********s around here. I actually have common sense and call things as I see it. But you? You're just stupid, there's no other way to say it.

[32Dayz]

I'm not Nick Young or other Kobe **********s around here. I actually have common sense and call things as I see it. But you? You're just stupid, there's no other way to say it.

If you dont think that kid BJ is a retarded Troll then you have "Zero" common sense.

If you cant tell I am just mocking him then your also a bit slow.

I do think Wade has a case against Kobe and when he retires will have a case against him on the ATList "possibly" but most of that stuff I said in response to BJ was just trolling him.

I am not "stupid" but kids like BJ who intentionally Troll regular topics and say stupid irrational shit constantly are and should be banned.

[L8k3r5]

If you dont think that kid BJ is a retarded Troll then you have "Zero" common sense.

If you cant tell I am just mocking him then your also a bit slow.

I do think Wade has a case against Kobe and when he retires will have a case against him on the ATList "possibly" but most of that stuff I said in response to BJ was just trolling him.

I am not "stupid" but kids like BJ who intentionally Troll regular topics and say stupid irrational shit constantly are and should be banned.
I was never talking about BJ. Why did you even bring him up? I'm talking about you as a poster. They are biased and have no quality in them. Why can't you be like Shaqattack and show both sides of the argument? Be unbiased and you probably will get respect around this forum. Maybe people will take you seriously.

[32Dayz]

I was never talking about BJ. Why did you even bring him up? I'm talking about you as a poster. They are biased and have no quality in them. Why can't you be like Shaqattack and show both sides of the argument? Be unbiased and you probably will get respect around this forum. Maybe people will take you seriously.


Maybe I am a tiny bit biased towards Shaq but who isn't towards their favorite player?

I always try my best to be reasonable and back up my arguments with facts and logic.
I feel stupid personally if I dont.

Most of my posts are of high quality and are enjoyable for others to read.
Maybe you should read some of my other posts before jumping to conclusions.

[MichaelCheazley]

I was never talking about BJ. Why did you even bring him up? I'm talking about you as a poster. They are biased and have no quality in them. Why can't you be like Shaqattack and show both sides of the argument? Be unbiased and you probably will get respect around this forum. Maybe people will take you seriously.

Have you seen some of the kobe/lebron fans around here? HE is mildly biased compared to them. Those kids will manipulate facts and statistics to suit their agenda. Atleast he attempts to back his arguments up.

[Doctor Rivers]

Thats just your opinion, I think Wade is by far the better playoff performer between the two and better on both sides of the floor.
Although he lacks Kobe's 3pt range he is a far better slasher and passer and has a higher BBIQ. He makes better decisions on the court.
His skillset and ability translates better against tough defenses and in the Finals.

The only think Kobe has over Wade is longevity at this point, if Wade has 4-5 Elite Seasons he will surpass Kobe on my ATList.

Wade is a better defender then Kobe ever was.
Wade has easily been better since 09

:applause: :cheers:

repped

there isn't any doubt who's better

[L8k3r5]

Maybe I am a tiny bit biased towards Shaq but who isn't towards their favorite player?

I always try my best to be reasonable and back up my arguments with facts and logic.

Most of my posts are of high quality and are enjoyable for others to read. Maybe you should read some of my other posts before jumping to conclusions.
You sure? You end up just saying Bs like what you said about Kobe earlier. Kobe took a weak Laker team to 7 games against the Suns in 06. Wade had Shaq and the better team. No shit the Heat were bound to do better. BTW a lot of controversy surrounds Wade's 06 finals performance. Such as the refs giving him a lot of calls. Put that into consideration.

[L8k3r5]

Have you seen some of the kobe/lebron fans around here? HE is mildly biased compared to them. Those kids will manipulate facts and statistics to suit their agenda. Atleast he attempts to back his arguments up.
I do agree the trolls here are just :facepalm But most of the arguments end up being who the better keyboard warrior is. If more people argued with Pros, Cons, and Similarities of two players or teams, this forum would be much better.

[32Dayz]

You sure? You end up just saying Bs like what you said about Kobe earlier. Kobe took a weak Laker team to 7 games against the Suns in 06. Wade had Shaq and the better team. No shit the Heat were bound to do better. BTW a lot of controversy surrounds Wade's 06 finals performance. Such as the refs giving him a lot of calls. Put that into consideration.

75% of Wade's points in the 06 Finals were on Field Goals (25ppg) so I personally dont think its fair to say he was good because of the refs.

I was just trolling Joker earlier, Kobe's 06 season was one of his best and his play in the Post Season (outside of the 2nd half of G7) was impressive.

[The Iron Fist]

Wade : Post Season - PER
Peak : 29.4
Top 5 : 26.64
Top 7 : 24.5

----------------------------

Kobe : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.8
Top 5 : 24
Top 7 : 23



Not to mention Wade regularly destroys the tough defensive teams (Detroit, Boston) that Kobe struggles against.

Not to mention Wade is a better Playoff and FAR better Finalz performer.

Kobe does nothing better then Wade except for 3PT Shooting.

Prime Wade > Prime Kobe

The Homers cant accept that Kobe is being surpassed by Wade but the average NBA Fan knows that Wade is the better player, he has proved it with his play.


Kobe post season success - 5
Wade post season success - 1

Kobes teams with 15 wins - 0
Wades teams with 15 wins - 1

[32Dayz]

Seasons with a Prime Shaq or a Top 3 Supporting Cast.
Kobe - 12
Wade - 3



:cheers:

[Legends66NBA7]

Kobe post season success - 5
Wade post season success - 1

Kobes teams with 15 wins - 0
Wades teams with 15 wins - 1

07-08 is being used against Wade now ?

[The Iron Fist]

:cheers:
You can use the "prime Shaq" excuse all you want.

But as it is,

Kobe has more rings without Shaq than Shaq has without Kobe.

Wade on the other hand,

led his team to 15 wins.


Not even half of Kobes lowest total win amount in one season.

99.99999999% of all fans know, Kobe is simply on another level than Wade.

[The Iron Fist]

07-08 is being used against Wade now ?
He played in over 60 games.

Why not?

[32Dayz]

99.99999999% of all Kobe Stans know, Kobe is simply on another level than Wade.

Fixed. :facepalm

Kobe did nothing but fail in the first round before Gasol arrived.

Shaq's 10 best years are better then Kobe at his absolute best/peak.



Shaq : Post Season - PER
Peak : 31
Top 5 : 30
Top 7 : 29.56
Top 10 : 28.52 <-----
Top 13 : 26.55

---------------------------

Kobe : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.8 <-----
Top 5 : 24
Top 7 : 23
Top 10 : 22.98
Top 13 : 21.62


Are you really trying to say Kobe is better then Shaq?
Rings are a team accomplishment not an individual one and Kobe was a Pippen for 3 of his Rings.

:facepalm

[The Iron Fist]

Fixed. :facepalm

Kobe did nothing but fail in the first round before Gasol arrived.

Shaq's 10 best years are better then Kobe at his absolute best/peak.



Are you really trying to say Kobe is better then Shaq?
Rings are a team accomplishment not an individual one and Kobe was a Pippen for 3 of his Rings.

:facepalm
Kobe was a 3 time champ before Gasol arrived, and had his team in 1st place before a trade was even thought of.

Try again.

[32Dayz]

Kobe was a 3 time champ before Gasol arrived, and had his team in 1st place before a trade was even thought of.

Try again.

Fact = Kobe without Shaq or Gasol never made it out of the first round.
Fact = Kobe wasnt even close to being the best player on his own team for his first 3 championships.
Fact = Kobe wasnt even clearly the best player on his own team in 2010.

Kobe has only been the best player on his own team 7/14 years.
Shaq was the best player on his own team 13/14 years.

Kobe is a great player but he has consistently been a second option. Outside of 09 he was never the clear cut best player on his team and from 00-02 it wasn't even close.

[imdaman99]

Fixed. :facepalm

Kobe did nothing but fail in the first round before Gasol arrived.

Shaq's 10 best years are better then Kobe at his absolute best/peak.



Are you really trying to say Kobe is better then Shaq?
Rings are a team accomplishment not an individual one and Kobe was a Pippen for 3 of his Rings.

:facepalm
what exactly did shaq do in the playoffs without a 2nd superstar? as a matter of fact, i dont remember him even making the playoffs without a 2nd superstar, hell he might have gone his whole career having another superstar on his team (except prob his rookie year with the magic). so i guess we can blame kobe for having very good teammates but we can't blame shaq, because shaq didnt win a damn thing without a 2nd superstar either. the irony is strong in you bruceblitz

[Micku]

what exactly did shaq do in the playoffs without a 2nd superstar? as a matter of fact, i dont remember him even making the playoffs without a 2nd superstar, hell he might have gone his whole career having another superstar on his team (except prob his rookie year with the magic). so i guess we can blame kobe for having very good teammates but we can't blame shaq, because shaq didnt win a damn thing without a 2nd superstar either. the irony is strong in you bruceblitz

It depends what you mean by superstar.

They were no superstar in the Lakers in late 90s. There was also no superstar on the Lakers in 2000, Shaq was the only one. Kobe started becoming a superstar in 01. What about the Magic? Was Penny a superstar?

If you mean All-Star, then that's a different story. Only a few players won a championship without an All-Star on their team. But even then, you just had to have a right team.

[32Dayz]

what exactly did shaq do in the playoffs without a 2nd superstar? as a matter of fact, i dont remember him even making the playoffs without a 2nd superstar, hell he might have gone his whole career having another superstar on his team (except prob his rookie year with the magic). so i guess we can blame kobe for having very good teammates but we can't blame shaq, because shaq didnt win a damn thing without a 2nd superstar either. the irony is strong in you bruceblitz

Shaq was one of the greatest playoff performers of all time by 99.

He had 4 GOAT level playoffs under his belt and countless more GOAT level playoff series.

He had taken an expansion franchise to the Finals as a third year player.

He was already named one of the 50 greatest players of all time.

He accomplished alot.

It takes a great team to win championships not a great individual player.

But still Shaq was proving himself to be one of the greatest individual players ever by 99.

Kobe was barely a Star let alone a "Super Star" in 00 and they won.

Shaq was light years better then Kobe in 00 and 02 and they won.

Which GOAT player hasnt won without atleast one great player beside them?
Jordan had Pippen
Magic had Kareem..
Kareem had Magic and Oscar...

Championships are not the way to judged individual players.
Playoff Production/Impact/Performances + Intagibals are the way.

Shaq was better then Kobe every year they won so is he supposed to be thankful for playing with him??

When you are the best player on your team its the other players that are lucky to be playing with you especially when there is a large gap between the two like there was between Pippen and Jordan and Shaq and Kobe.

Playoff PER

A's (Main Star) :
Shaq (00-02) : 29
Jordan (91-93 + 96-98) : 28.53

B's (Side-Kicks) :
Kobe (00-02) : 21
Pippen (91-93 + 96-98) : 19.5

The difference is clear and obvious.

[Legends66NBA7]

He played in over 60 games.

Why not?

Don't just throw out some random number man:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01/gamelog/2008/

Dude was banged up for most of the season and missed like the last 21 games when they were pretty much out of contention. They had to deal with trades, injuries to himself and others, etc.. on top of all of that.

I obviously have Kobe over Wade all-time as should everyone else. Have fun trolling though.

[amfirst]

Shaq is great and all, but c'mon he would never beat the SPurs without Kobe.

[32Dayz]

Shaq is great and all, but c'mon he would never beat the SPurs without Kobe.

Even in that Spurs series it was Shaq who was the focus of the defensive attention and who kept DRob/Duncan glued to his waist.

This allowed Kobe to Torch Antonio Daniels or Bowen on mostly 1v1 coverage.

Kobe was usually fantastic VS the Spurs I wont deny that but honestly, Shaq was still probably more valuable in those series.
Dont forget he was also the teams defensive anchor ontop of being the main focus of the opposing teams D which I mentioned already.

Shaq was clearly the best player all 3 years together when they won with Jordan/Pippen type gaps in 00 and 02.

Not saying Shaq wins without Kobe because he most likely doesnt just like Jordan would not have won without Pippen but its obvious and clear who the better and more valuable player was those years.

Both were lucky to play with eachother but Kobe was far luckier.. its pretty simple to understand.

[Lucifer]

I actually think wade has had more highlight plays while playing half the amount of time. Mix makers have constantly say Dwayne wade is hardest to make a mix of due to the vast amount of selection.


Not even close. Wade's career has been during the youtube era.

[GilZero]

The idiots talking about PER can just leave ISH, please.

[32Dayz]

The idiots talking about PER can just leave ISH, please.

PER Reflects Production.

If you dont think Production matters then you can leave ISH.

Playoff PER

A's (Main Star) :
Shaq (00-02) : 29
Jordan (91-93 + 96-98) : 28.53

B's (Side-Kicks) :
Kobe (00-02) : 21
Pippen (91-93 + 96-98) : 19.5

The difference is clear and obvious.

[G-Funk]

Kobe vs Wade

60 Point Games
Kobe - 5
Wade - 0

50 point games
Kobe - 25 (1 in postseason)
Wade - 3

40 Point Games
Kobe - 118 (11 in postseason)
Wade - 38 (3 in postseason)

Titles
Kobe - 5
Wade - 1



kobe in 2006-07 season had 10 50 point games, more than wades whole career (3), also kobe had 7 50 point games in 2005-06 season
kobe also had a streak of 4 consecutive 50 point games, in 4 games kobe put up more 50 point games than wades career
in 2005-06 kobe averaged 35.4 ppg, which is 8th highest in nba history

[G-Funk]

prime kobe vs prime wade
Kobe's Prime (2000-01 season to 2007-08 season) stats
Wade's Prime (2004-05 season to 2010-11 season) stats

kobe 29.0 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 5.3 apg, 45.4 fg% (8 years, 600 games total)
wade 26.6 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 6.6 apg, 48.6 fg% (7 years, 486 games total)

[Cali Syndicate]

Kobe vs Wade

60 Point Games
Kobe - 5
Wade - 0

50 point games
Kobe - 25 (1 in postseason)
Wade - 3

40 Point Games
Kobe - 118 (11 in postseason)
Wade - 38 (3 in postseason)

Titles
Kobe - 5
Wade - 1



kobe in 2006-07 season had 10 50 point games, more than wades whole career (3), also kobe had 7 50 point games in 2005-06 season
kobe also had a streak of 4 consecutive 50 point games, in 4 games kobe put up more 50 point games than wades career
in 2005-06 kobe averaged 35.4 ppg, which is 8th highest in nba history

All that may be true but Wade doesn't shot jack nearly as much as Kobe does. Wade has averaged 20 FGA per game for a season once while Kobe has averaged 20 FGA per game for almost 11 straight seasons.

Wade for his career has a total of 13 games where he has taken at least 30 FGA (39 being his career high).

Kobe had 12 alone in the 07 season. Twice eclipsing the 40 FGA mark.

Kobe's a prolific scorer and all but those scoring marks are way out of context.

[The Iron Fist]

Don't just throw out some random number man:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01/gamelog/2008/

Dude was banged up for most of the season and missed like the last 21 games when they were pretty much out of contention. They had to deal with trades, injuries to himself and others, etc.. on top of all of that.

I obviously have Kobe over Wade all-time as should everyone else. Have fun trolling though.


So 10 games makes them that different?

Look at how many games the team won with Wade playing. It wasn't very many at all.

Every team deals with injuries.

[The Iron Fist]

PER Reflects Production.

If you dont think Production matters then you can leave ISH.

Playoff PER

A's (Main Star) :
Shaq (00-02) : 29
Jordan (91-93 + 96-98) : 28.53

B's (Side-Kicks) :
Kobe (00-02) : 21
Pippen (91-93 + 96-98) : 19.5

The difference is clear and obvious.


The only thing that matters, is winning.

Kobe has done alot more of it at the highest levels.

[32Dayz]

The only thing that matters, is winning.

Kobe has done alot more of it at the highest levels.

Actually Winning is a team accomplishment.
If winning is all that matters then Horry >>> Kobe.
See how retarded that logic is?

As an Individual Kobe is not in the same solar system as players like Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem etc...

He never will be.

Shaq from 95-04 was better then Kobe at his absolute Peak.
He was the better player and no one (except Kobe stans) would argue differently.

:facepalm

Wade so far has been the better player when comparing him to Bryant. He has proven himself the better playoff and Finals performer.

The only reason why Kobe has more Rings because he has had an absurd amount of chances with good supporting Casts (12) while wade has only had (2-3)

Wade need's 4-5 more good seasons to catch up to Kobe in terms of longevity and at that point you can easily make the argument that
Prime Wade > Prime Kobe
and
Career Wise / GOAT Ranking Wise
Wade > Kobe.

But who knows, Wade might get injured.

[ItsTwisted]

PER Reflects Production.

If you dont think Production matters then you can leave ISH.

Playoff PER

A's (Main Star) :
Shaq (00-02) : 29
Jordan (91-93 + 96-98) : 28.53

B's (Side-Kicks) :
Kobe (00-02) : 21
Pippen (91-93 + 96-98) : 19.5

The difference is clear and obvious.

You and that guy pauk can be best friends. He is biased towards Lebron and you are to Shaq but its mind boggling how neither of you have managed to watch enough games to actually sound reasonable in your arguments.

I get it you are a Shaq fan, and so am I to a degree, but come on dude, every chance you get to make Kobe look bad, you take it, are you that insecure about Shaqs legacy. I, on the other hand am pretty sure that Shaqs legacy will be remembered that I dont need to run into every thread about Kobe and say " omg Kobe is not better then so and so" in order to make Kobe look bad.

In this thread we are talking about Kobe and Wade and you still somehow managed to bring up Shaq. I mean your insecurities must be very high and they shouldnt if YOU WATCHED THE GAMES, you would clearly know that Shaq was the man on the Lakers of 00-02, and you wouldnt need to prove it. However, what you do is, you bring up stats and PER like those are the only things that matter, and try and make it seem as though Kobe did nothing those years except sat on the bench and watched Shaq excel. I mean really, anybody that watched the games will tell you, that even on nights that Shaq may have had more points, Kobe may have carried the team in the end, and it goes both ways. There were also nights were Kobe had the points, but Shaq carried the team in the end. Those are the things that matter, but if you actually sat down and watched the games without your Shaq glasses on, you would understand this, any rational fan would.

I am a Laker fan, but I am not a biased Laker fan, and do not watch the team because of the so called superstars. You on the other hand did just that, its hard to talk about Kobe when you have watched all of his games only to find something to critique and thats considering you watched the games, cause I am pretty sure after every game you just look up the stats and base your opinion off of that.

Shaq was outstanding on those championship teams and nobody will take that away from him, but would he have truly won had Kobe not been there, we will never know, but what I do know is that Kobe also contributed a whole lot to those championship teams, more then any other player besides Shaq during that time.

You can praise Shaq, and be a Shaq fan, I am not disagreeing with you that he is a great great player, and was a huge part of the Lakers for a while, but I am just telling you, you can make Shaq look good without trying to belittle Kobe in the process because it only makes you lose credibility as a basketball fan

[32Dayz]

How do I belittle Kobe?

My point was simply in response to a Kobe stan who said Kobe > Shaq due to Rings.

I know Kobe was one of the best players in the league from 00-02 and Shaq wouldnt have won without him.

I consider Kobe currently to be either the 2nd or 3rd best SG ever with Jerry West.

I dont hate or dislike Kobe.

However I also dont overrate him and pretend that he cannot be surpassed by anyone from the newer generations because he is "Kobe"

I honestly believe Wade has been the better player so far in his Career and if he can match Kobe's longetivity he will go down at the better player All-Time.

I can express my opinions if I want.

I was not the one who brought Shaq into this topic.
Also Shaq may be my favorite player but I rarely say things about him that arent true or are unfounded.

Anyway I am going to bed, Gnite.

[ItsTwisted]

Actually Winning is a team accomplishment.
If winning is all that matters then Horry >>> Kobe.
See how retarded that logic is?

As an Individual Kobe is not in the same solar system as players like Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem etc...

He never will be.

Shaq from 95-04 was better then Kobe at his absolute Peak.
He was the better player and no one (except Kobe stans) would argue differently.

:facepalm

Wade so far has been the better player when comparing him to Bryant. He has proven himself the better playoff and Finals performer.

The only reason why Kobe has more Rings because he has had an absurd amount of chances with good supporting Casts (12) while wade has only had (2-3)

Wade need's 4-5 more good seasons to catch up to Kobe in terms of longevity and at that point you can easily make the argument that
Prime Wade > Prime Kobe
and
Career Wise / GOAT Ranking Wise
Wade > Kobe.

But who knows, Wade might get injured.


Wow, take off your glasses. Wade needs at least two more rings to be considered anywhere near Kobes legacy. I have watched Wade ever since he came to the league, almost every game, and you are way off. You know you are biased when even Wade fans are disagreeing with you.

You lost a lot of credibility in my book, when the other day you stated Shaq could be argued for the GOAT, and I am assuming you are stating this going only by facts. If you watched Jordan play, you would know Shaq is not anywhere close to being the GOAT. Hall of Fame player, and top 10 definitely, but GOAT, no where close.

[blablabla]

Kb vs wade
=
Jordan vs drexler

[Micku]

Kobe vs Wade

60 Point Games
Kobe - 5
Wade - 0

50 point games
Kobe - 25 (1 in postseason)
Wade - 3

40 Point Games
Kobe - 118 (11 in postseason)
Wade - 38 (3 in postseason)

Titles
Kobe - 5
Wade - 1



kobe in 2006-07 season had 10 50 point games, more than wades whole career (3), also kobe had 7 50 point games in 2005-06 season
kobe also had a streak of 4 consecutive 50 point games, in 4 games kobe put up more 50 point games than wades career
in 2005-06 kobe averaged 35.4 ppg, which is 8th highest in nba history

In the scoring category. You can say that Iverson scored more than Wade as well. He has more 50 ppg in the regular season and in the playoffs than Wade, but that doesn't mean he is better of course.

Kobe has more accomplishments than Wade tho. Championships as well as individual accomplishments and records. But that doesn't stop Wade being a better than him atm. Kobe is getting old and everything.

[G-Funk]

]All that may be true but Wade doesn't shot jack nearly as much as Kobe does. [/B]Wade has averaged 20 FGA per game for a season once while Kobe has averaged 20 FGA per game for almost 11 straight seasons.

Wade for his career has a total of 13 games where he has taken at least 30 FGA (39 being his career high).

Kobe had 12 alone in the 07 season. Twice eclipsing the 40 FGA mark.

Kobe's a prolific scorer and all but those scoring marks are way out of context.

and yet Wade only averages a bit more assist per game, 1?

[G-Funk]

In the scoring category. You can say that Iverson scored more than Wade as well. He has more 50 ppg in the regular season and in the playoffs than Wade, but that doesn't mean he is better of course.

Kobe has more accomplishments than Wade tho. Championships as well as individual accomplishments and records. But that doesn't stop Wade being a better than him atm. Kobe is getting old and everything.

Iverson is nothing to sneeze at? he once was the league's MVP ya know!

Not at all. but pumping ur chest because one player is better than another do to age difference is nothing to be proud of.

[Cali Syndicate]

and yet Wade only averages a bit more assist per game, 1?

So its either shoot or dime out an assist...that's how you think it works?

But if you want to go there, Wade has more games than Kobe with 10 or more assists and Kobe's been in the league almost twice as long.

But I already know what you gonna say next so it was actually redundant to even reply to this comment in the first place.

[Micku]

Iverson is nothing to sneeze at? he once was the league's MVP ya know!

Not at all. but pumping ur chest because one player is better than another do to age difference is nothing to be proud of.

I know. But what you just pulled, you can do something very similar to a comparison like Iverson and Larry Bird. Iverson scored more than Larry Bird too I believe. And he is no way better than Larry Bird.

Wade is a good player. It's not there's a huge gap between the two. Kobe's been fortunate enough to play on a very good team along with being a great player. Wade is a great player, but didn't have the luxury of being on a great team until recently and his first three years.

Their talent and ability is close. Kobe's a better scorer while Wade is a tad bit more efficient. Their play styles are different as well. Each got their pros and cons.

[G-Funk]

Kobes been putting up 28/6/5/2 46%fg 80%ft 36%3pt and a lot less tov FOR 12 YEARS

[Cali Syndicate]

Not at all. but pumping ur chest because one player is better than another do to age difference is nothing to be proud of.

Yet that doesn't stop people from glorifying Kobe's 55 point game against Jordan's Wizards.

Main difference, Kobe is like 3 years older than Wade. Jordan was over 15 years older than Kobe in 03.

[G-Funk]

5,280 Playoffs Points - 3rd Alltime
Only player in NBA History to score 600+ points in 3 consecutive Postseasons
5 Championships
2 Finals MVPs

Kobe's stats without Shaq
28.9ppg, 5.6rpg, 5.1apg, 45.5%FG
29.8ppg, 5.7rpg, 5.4apg, 46.7%FG Playoff average (not including 2011)
2 Championships
3 Finals
2 Finals MVPs
MVP

Kobe Bryant's stats as a starter
27.4 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 5.1 apg, 45.6 fg%

Kobe's playoff runs are better than Wade's as well

2001
29.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg
33.3 ppg, 7 rpg, 7 apg in 01 WCF
35 ppg, 9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 01 WCSF

2002
26.6 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 4.6 apg

2008
30.1 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 5.6 apg

2009
30.1 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 5.5 apg
34 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 5.8 apg in 09 WCF
32.4 ppg, 5.4 apg, 7.4 apg in 09 Finals
1 of 5 players in NBA History to average 30+ ppg on a championship team in the playoffs

2010
29.2 ppg, 6 rpg, 5.5 apg
33.7 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 8.3 apg in 10 WCF

Lets not forget that Kobe in a season or two will eclipse the 30,000 Point mark, which only 4 player have ever done, and Kobe would be the youngest to do it

[G-Funk]

Kobe
Age 20- 20/5/4
Age 21- 23/6/5
Age 22- 29/6/5
Age 23- 25/6/6
Age 24- 30/7/6
Age 25- 24/6/5
Age 26- 28/6/6
Age 27- 35/5/5
Age 28- 32/6/5
Age 29- 28/6/5
Age 30- 27/5/5
Age 31- 27/5/5
Age 32- 25/5/5

Wade
Age 22- 16/4/5
Age 23- 24/5/7
Age 24- 27/6/7
Age 25- 27/5/8
Age 26- 25/4/7
Age 27- 30/5/8
Age 28- 27/5/7

By age


Age 22- Kobe 29/6/5 Wade 16/4/5
Age 23- Kobe 25/6/6 Wade 24/5/7
Age 24- Kobe 30/7/6 Wade 27/6/7
Age 25- Kobe 24/6/5 Wade 27/5/8
Age 26- Kobe 28/6/6 Wade 25/4/7
Age 27- Kobe 35/5/5 Wade 30/5/8
Age 28- Kobe 32/6/5 Wade 27/5/7

[G-Funk]

05-10 in particular is the "Kobe Era".

Over that span he was the best player in the league 3X and 2nd best 2X.

He won:
2 Championships
3 Finals Appearances
2X Scoring titles
2X Finals MVP
1X NBA MVP
5 All-NBA 1st Teams
5 All-NBA 1st Team Defense
Recorded seasons of:
35/5/5/2/56% TS
32/6/5/2/58% TS
28/6/5/2/58% TS
27/5/5/2/56% TS
27/6/5/2/55% TS
And post-seasons of:
29/6/6/59% TS
33/6/5/2/56% TS
30/6/6/2/58% TS (22 games)
30/6/6/2/57% TS (22 games)
29/6/6/2/57% TS (23 games)

He had 3 different months where he averaged 40+ PPG.
4 straight 45+ point games
4 straight 50+ point games
Averaged 37/6/6/58% TS over the last 30 games of 2007 Post-All Star break.
81 points
62 points in three quarters
20 50+ point games over this span (nobody else had more than 5)
70 40+ point games over this span (nobody came remotely close to that)
42pts in 1st half
55pts in 2nd half
30pts in one quarter 3X
12 threes in one game
9 threes without a miss in a game
8 threes in one half
4 straight games with 50pts+
27 games with 40pts+ in a season
10 games with 50pts+ in a season (only Wilt had more)
4th player ever with a 35pt+ season average
5th player ever with a 2800pt+ season
1st player ever to outscore a team through 3 quarters
1st player ever with a 2800pt 180 three season


Now add that to what he did from 00-05:

3 Championships
4 Finals Appearances
3X All-NBA 1st Team
2X All-NBA 2nd Team
5X All-NBA 1st-Team Defense
Recorded seasons of:
23/6/5/2/55% TS
29/6/5/2/55% TS
26/6/6/2/56% TS
30/7/6/2/55% TS
24/6/5/2/56% TS
28/6/6/2/56% TS
Recorded post-seasons of:
22/6/5/2/54% TS
29/7/6/2/56% TS
27/6/5/2/52% TS
32/6/5/2/52% TS
25/5/5/2/51% TS

[The Iron Fist]

Actually Winning is a team accomplishment.
If winning is all that matters then Horry >>> Kobe.
See how retarded that logic is?

As an Individual Kobe is not in the same solar system as players like Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem etc...

He never will be.

.


You're right, hes beyond them and has proven it over time. Its not 2005 anymore, its 2011, and hes added two FMVPs to his collection.


Also, you're right again, winning is a team accomplishment.

But only a moron like yourself would equate Horrys worth to that of Kobe and Shaq. The only retarded person here, is you.

[The Iron Fist]

So its either shoot or dime out an assist...that's how you think it works?

But if you want to go there, Wade has more games than Kobe with 10 or more assists and Kobe's been in the league almost twice as long.

But I already know what you gonna say next so it was actually redundant to even reply to this comment in the first place.


Assists don't win games, points do.

Look at all of those rings Steve Nash has.

Oh wait.

[G-Funk]

I know. But what you just pulled, you can do something very similar to a comparison like Iverson and Larry Bird. Iverson scored more than Larry Bird too I believe. And he is no way better than Larry Bird.

Wade is a good player. It's not there's a huge gap between the two. Kobe's been fortunate enough to play on a very good team along with being a great player. Wade is a great player, but didn't have the luxury of being on a great team until recently and his first three years.

Their talent and ability is close. Kobe's a better scorer while Wade is a tad bit more efficient. Their play styles are different as well. Each got their pros and cons.

Yes but even though Wade is the best in the NBA, he's no Larry Bird, and Kobe is Iverson

[G-Funk]

Yet that doesn't stop people from glorifying Kobe's 55 point game against Jordan's Wizards.

Main difference, Kobe is like 3 years older than Wade. Jordan was over 15 years older than Kobe in 03.

Those are the trolls, Iv'e never done that ever!


And Wade is not busting 55pts on Kobe's because of the exact same reason, age difference.

[G-Funk]

So its either shoot or dime out an assist...that's how you think it works?

But if you want to go there, Wade has more games than Kobe with 10 or more assists and Kobe's been in the league almost twice as long.

But I already know what you gonna say next so it was actually redundant to even reply to this comment in the first place.

No it's about getting points in the hoop so u can win the game, whether they come from assist or not.

[G-Funk]

All that may be true but Wade doesn't shot jack nearly as much as Kobe does.


So its either shoot or dime out an assist...that's how you think it works?

But if you want to go there, Wade has more games than Kobe with 10 or more assists and Kobe's been in the league almost twice as long.



Kobe Bryant:

When scoring 40+(107 games)
-45.4 PPG
-6.1 RPG
-4.1 APG
-1.8 SPG
-0.6 BPG
-51.0% from the field
-44.2% from downtown
-85.7% from the line
-59.4 TS%
-30.3 FGA/game
-13.5 FTA/game
-Lakers went 73-34(.682)
-15 double-doubles(12 double digit rebounds and 3 double digit assists)
-Attempted fewer than 30 field goal attempts on 55 occasions
-Went to the foul line 15+ times on 40 occasions
-Went to the foul line 20+ times on 14 occasions


When scoring 50+(23 games)
-54.9 PPG
-6.4 RPG
-3.4 APG
-1.6 SPG
-0.5 BPG
-54.0% from the field
-47.2% from downtown
-89.3% from the line
-62.2 TS%
-34.3 FGA/game
-15.2 FTA/game
-Lakers went 17-6(.739)


When scoring 60+(5 games)
-65.8 PPG
-5.2 RPG
-2.4 APG
-1.8 SPG
-0.4 BPG
-58.7% from the field
-52.1% from downtown
-92.6% from the line
-67.6 TS%
-36.8 FGA/game
-19.0 FTA/game
-Lakers went 5-0(1.0)



What ever get's you the wins right? I'm sure those extra assist per games don't even compare to these results.

[Cali Syndicate]

Kobe Bryant:

When scoring 40+(107 games)
-45.4 PPG
-6.1 RPG
-4.1 APG
-1.8 SPG
-0.6 BPG
-51.0% from the field
-44.2% from downtown
-85.7% from the line
-59.4 TS%
-30.3 FGA/game
-13.5 FTA/game
-Lakers went 73-34(.682)
-15 double-doubles(12 double digit rebounds and 3 double digit assists)
-Attempted fewer than 30 field goal attempts on 55 occasions
-Went to the foul line 15+ times on 40 occasions
-Went to the foul line 20+ times on 14 occasions


When scoring 50+(23 games)
-54.9 PPG
-6.4 RPG
-3.4 APG
-1.6 SPG
-0.5 BPG
-54.0% from the field
-47.2% from downtown
-89.3% from the line
-62.2 TS%
-34.3 FGA/game
-15.2 FTA/game
-Lakers went 17-6(.739)


When scoring 60+(5 games)
-65.8 PPG
-5.2 RPG
-2.4 APG
-1.8 SPG
-0.4 BPG
-58.7% from the field
-52.1% from downtown
-92.6% from the line
-67.6 TS%
-36.8 FGA/game
-19.0 FTA/game
-Lakers went 5-0(1.0)



What ever get's you the wins right? I'm sure those extra assist per games don't even compare to these results.

Lakers are 48-63 when Kobe shoots at least 30 FGA.

Heat are 46-28 when Wade dishes out 10 or more assists.

Anyways I was only pointing out posting the discrepancy of Kobe's 40 or 50 point games compared to Wade's is out of context because.....

Kobe has 48+63= 111 games with at least 30 FGA and Wade has a grand total of 13.

[Cali Syndicate]

Assists don't win games, points do.

Look at all of those rings Steve Nash has.

Oh wait.

And when was the last time a scoring champ won a title?

[bizil]

There is no doubt Kobe has the edge on Wade career wise and peak value wise. But as of now, I feel Wade has passed Kobe by. Because Kobe has slowed down enough for Wade to pass him. Kobe came in the L in '96 and Wade came in 2003. So of course at some point Wade would be at his peak while Kobe was on the downside. However, I think Kobe is gonna come back strong when the L starts up again. Kobe is still one of the top 6-8 players in the world. And in the all around sense, only Wade and Bron are better at this stage.

[RazorBaLade]

PER Reflects Production.

If you dont think Production matters then you can leave ISH.

Playoff PER

A's (Main Star) :
Shaq (00-02) : 29
Jordan (91-93 + 96-98) : 28.53

B's (Side-Kicks) :
Kobe (00-02) : 21
Pippen (91-93 + 96-98) : 19.5

The difference is clear and obvious.


the problem with per is that it jumps random ppl like kevin love into the t5. why are some of u guys in this thread using per?

all a stat needs to do is make 1 mistake and we know its worthless. lets take 2010. kevin love was 4th, pau was 11th. boom. something is inherently wrong with this stat and it thus means nothing.

u dont get to say hey wade>kobe in per deal with it when klove is over durant and cp3

[HBKMGa]

32dayz really loves his Kobe

[D-Wade316]

:facepalm

03-04: Kobe
04-05: Wade
05-06: Wade
06-07: Kobe (Wade before the injury)
07-08: Kobe
08-09: Wade
09-10: Wade
10-11: Wade

Wade was better than Kobe in 5 seasons of his 8-year career.

[DMAVS41]

the problem with per is that it jumps random ppl like kevin love into the t5. why are some of u guys in this thread using per?

all a stat needs to do is make 1 mistake and we know its worthless. lets take 2010. kevin love was 4th, pau was 11th. boom. something is inherently wrong with this stat and it thus means nothing.

u dont get to say hey wade>kobe in per deal with it when klove is over durant and cp3

meh.....then every stat is worthless. PER is just a measure of productivity....doesn't tell you which player is better. Shaq's fg% is much better than MJ's....doesn't mean Shaq was better. Just means he's more efficient from the field.

Wade having a higher PER doesn't mean he's better. Just means he's more productive statistically using that measure. PER is actually much more valuable than most people (Kobe fans) want to believe. Just takes some context. We know certain things.....we can use our brain to know that Kevin Love isn't as good as his PER number.

But its not like we are comparing two players on a different tier. We are comparing the two best sg's in the game and two of the 4 best sg's of all time. I think a stat like PER is valuable. It accounts for performances based on league averages...usage...etc.

I swear its like Kobe fans just want to go off of ppg and just not factor anything else in. Oh....and not career ppg.....we have to cut Kobe's first 4 years of his career off as well.

Anyone saying this comparison isn't close just isn't being honest or objective. We just watched these two guys play the last 8 years of their careers in the same era. Sometimes Kobe was better....sometimes Wade was better.

Kobe is the better and more explosive scorer. Wade is more efficient and a better playmaker. Defensively they are about the same. Kobe in around 00 probably played better defense than Wade ever did, but he didn't keep that up very long. Kobe overall is the better individual defender....while Wade is the better team defender.

Kobe is better in the clutch, but Kobe's teams struggle in close games (for their talent) and in game winning situations as well.

Wade has clearly been the better playoff performer against elite teams....and in the Finals. Wade is the better athlete and refuses to settle.....that is why I would take Wade over Kobe as a player. His style is harder to stop in the playoffs.....he just attacks and attacks and attacks.....great defenses just seem unable to stop him. Kobe settles too much.....too many jumpers at a less efficient rate. Kobe also doesn't create as well as Wade. The triangle has something to do with that, but that offense also suits Kobe very well.

Nobody wants to admit it, but this all comes down to the whole "rings argument".....

If the Heat had won last year, nobody would have a problem with the Wade vs Kobe comparisons.....but the Heat lost. And they lost even with Wade playing great for pretty much the first 5 games. If Wade plays the exact same way and the Heat win.....he's being talked about a borderline top 10 player of all time and one of the greatest finals performers of all time. He'd have 2 finals mvp's and two titles in his first 8 years. Unfortunately for Wade, his team let him down. Bosh was subpar and Lebron was laughably bad. And that is why its so hard to rank player based off rings....so much is out of the control of 1 player. What if Shaq had pulled what Lebron did this year back when he and Kobe were playing the Kings or the Blazers or the Spurs...etc? No way the Lakers win....would that make Kobe a lesser player? Of course not.

But using logic and context seems too hard for a forum like this. It has to be nice and clean and x rings vs x rings.

Overall, there is just nothing really to claim Wade is better than Kobe or vice versa. As individual players its hard to get two guys as similar as these two in level of play and impact. I think it comes down to team and personal preference ultimately.

[BlackJoker23]

If you dont think that kid BJ is a retarded Troll then you have "Zero" common sense.

If you cant tell I am just mocking him then your also a bit slow.

I do think Wade has a case against Kobe and when he retires will have a case against him on the ATList "possibly" but most of that stuff I said in response to BJ was just trolling him.

I am not "stupid" but kids like BJ who intentionally Troll regular topics and say stupid irrational shit constantly are and should be banned.
lol youre the one whose the kid here idiot. guarantee u didnt see shaqs fat ass play. kid cant type for shit, is yet to reach puberty and is acting like he saw shaq play. :facepalm

[BlackJoker23]

Maybe I am a tiny bit biased towards Shaq but who isn't towards their favorite player?

I always try my best to be reasonable and back up my arguments with facts and logic.
I feel stupid personally if I dont.

Most of my posts are of high quality and are enjoyable for others to read.
Maybe you should read some of my other posts before jumping to conclusions.
u signed up for the wrong forum phaget.

[305Baller]

Kobe Bryant vs. Dwayne Wade is a ridiculous argument to start with, and I for one wish that it is never brought up again, even though it happens a couple of times a season.

Prime? Kobe.
Individual accolades? Kobe.
Offense? Kobe.
Defense? Arguable.
Team success? Kobe.
Highlights? Kobe.
Longevity? Kobe.
Dominance? Kobe.

That is all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLqIIbic3X8&feature=related
:cheers:

Look, Wade still has 2/3'rds of his career to go.

[RRR3]

bro kobe didnt have the luxury of traveling and running over his defenders every trip down the floor. shaq was the golden boy. refs didnt call shit on him and bean carried his fat no free throw making ass in the 4th. shaqs whole career has an asterisk on it. he was shitted on by a lot of big guys. ben wallace, hakeem, duncan all those guys took turns flushing his bald ass down the toilet

i agree with the first point tho. real shit. shaq is a little bytch
http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmt7m7fVWo1qi2rc2o1_400.gif

[D-Wade316]

Look, Wade still has 2/3'rds of his career to go.
:cheers: Wade would probably retire at the age of 36-39. Can't see him retiring younger than that.

[D-Wade316]

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmt7m7fVWo1qi2rc2o1_400.gif
:lol Love that gif

[RRR3]

:lol Love that gif
:oldlol: It's from this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js7jmm6MoNI a 6:20

[Heavincent]

Kobe >>>>>>>>> Wade in terms of career
Kobe > Wade in terms of peak

We can end the thread now. There's not even a debate to be had.

[32Dayz]

Only idiots think Prime Wade vs Prime Kobe isn't debatable.

Prime Wade is the better defender and scorer.

Kobe scores on more Volume but is inefficient, inconsistent and struggles vs good defensive teams and in the Finalz.

Prime Wade is easily the better player and its not even close.

Wade has the best Post Season (06) and Regular Season (09) between the two players.
Wade has produced at a higher level in the playoffs over 1, 5 and 7 year periods.
Wade is a better leader, has a higher BBIQ, is a far better decision maker on the court and has better intangibles.

Honestly he is simply the better player.

Kobe has 3-5 more Elite Years right now in the playoffs which Wade needs to make up for before I can put him ahead of Kobe on my GOAT list but if he doesn't get injured that most likely will occur.

The only reason why Kobe has more Rings is due to Supporting Casts.
Kobe has had 12 Combined years with either Prime Shaq or a Top 3 Supporting Cast.
Wade has had 2-3.

:facepalm

Kobe Stans are so scared and angry that their boy is being surpassed every year that go's by but its inevitable. Kobe just wasnt on or near Jordans level and Kobe himself never elevated himself above TMac from 00-05 or Wade/Lebron from 05-11.

He just isnt a better player, he's just had way better teams.

Give Wade or Lebron Prime Shaq for 8 Years and I grantee you they have 4 Rings at the worst.

[D-Wade316]

Only idiots think Prime Wade vs Prime Kobe isn't debatable.

Prime Wade is the better defender and scorer.

Kobe scores on more Volume but is inefficient, inconsistent and struggles vs good defensive teams and in the Finalz.

Prime Wade is easily the better player and its not even close.

Wade has the best Post Season (06) and Regular Season (09) between the two players.
Wade has produced at a higher level in the playoffs over 1, 5 and 7 year periods.
Wade is a better leader, has a higher BBIQ, is a far better decision maker on the court and has better intangibles.

Honestly he is simply the better player.

Kobe has 3-5 more Elite Years right now in the playoffs which Wade needs to make up for before I can put him ahead of Kobe on my GOAT list but if he doesn't get injured that most likely will occur.

The only reason why Kobe has more Rings is due to Supporting Casts.
Kobe has had 12 Combined years with either Prime Shaq or a Top 3 Supporting Cast.
Wade has had 2-3.

:facepalm
They mad bro

[32Dayz]

They mad bro

Yup.

Give Wade Prime Shaq for 8+ Years and that Stacked LA team he has now for 3+ Years and Wade has 6-8 Rings and 2-3 FMVP's.

[Heavincent]

Only idiots think Prime Wade vs Prime Kobe isn't debatable.

Prime Wade is the better defender and scorer.

Kobe scores on more Volume but is inefficient, inconsistent and struggles vs good defensive teams and in the Finalz.

Prime Wade is easily the better player and its not even close.

Wade has the best Post Season (06) and Regular Season (09) between the two players.
Wade has produced at a higher level in the playoffs over 1, 5 and 7 year periods.
Wade is a better leader, has a higher BBIQ, is a far better decision maker on the court and has better intangibles.

Honestly he is simply the better player.

Kobe has 3-5 more Elite Years right now in the playoffs which Wade needs to make up for before I can put him ahead of Kobe on my GOAT list but if he doesn't get injured that most likely will occur.

The only reason why Kobe has more Rings is due to Supporting Casts.
Kobe has had 12 Combined years with either Prime Shaq or a Top 3 Supporting Cast.
Wade has had 2-3.

:facepalm

Kobe Stans are so scared and angry that their boy is being surpassed every year that go's by but its inevitable. Kobe just wasnt on or near Jordans level and Kobe himself never elevated himself above TMac from 00-05 or Wade/Lebron from 05-11.

He just isnt a better player, he's just had way better teams.

Give Wade or Lebron Prime Shaq for 8 Years and I grantee you they have 4 Rings at the worst.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[32Dayz]

http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww341/RhettManuel23/U-MAD-WE-STYLIN-1.jpg

[G-Funk]

Only idiots think Prime Wade vs Prime Kobe is debatable.

Prime Kobe is by far the better defender and scorer. Wade can't lock players like once did, He can't score like Kobe can, he doesn't even have the arsenal, it's a Joke, dude only scores off pick & rolls, and his athleticism.

Kobe scores from all areas of the floor 3's midrange, layups dunks, ft's and is efficient at every single thing. Wade just depends on the whistle plain and simple.

Prime Kobe is easily the better player and its not even close. Put to you this way, Kobe is a lock for top 10 and Wade won't even be a top 10? He doesn't even have an MVP! Hahaha

Without the refs in 06, Dirk has 2 rings. Wade only had 1 great season, that's what you call a mirage. had he done that a few more season then ill believe it

Wade has produced at a higher level in the playoffs over 1, 5 and 7 year periods.

Kobe is a better leader, has a way higher BBIQ, is a far better decision maker on the court and has better intangibles. Only reason he get's less career assist is because he played in the triangle offense.

Honestly he is simply the better player.

Kobe has 3-5 more Elite Years right now in the playoffs which Wade needs to make up for before I can put him ahead of Kobe on my GOAT list but if he doesn't get injured that most likely will occur.

The only reason why Kobe has more Rings is cause he can.
Look at Wade, He lost with the "best player on the league" & a player as good as Gasol.

[32Dayz]

Lol what?

Wade scores on similar Volume but is far more effecient, consistent and doesnt get owned by the good defensive teams.

He is also 1000000000000x better then Kobe as a Finalz performer.

FT Excuse?

Wade scores 25ppg or 75% of his points off FG's in the 06 Finalz (Try Again)

Wade's Mid Range Game is almost as good as Kobe's has ever been and he is a far better slasher then Kobe ever was. Not to mention a better passer, more Clutch, better at elevating his game, far better decision maker.

The only thing Kobe does better then Wade 0ffensively is shoot the 3Ball.

The only reason y Kobe has more Rings is cause he had prime shaq to ride for 8+ years and then a stacked supporting cast for 3-4 more and a Top 3 PF / Top 10 player in Gasol.

oh and the GOAT Coach in PJ.

Lol at thinking Kobe is as good as Wade is now.

and Wade >>> Prime Kobe defensively.


Number of seasons with DRTG lower then 105
Kobe = 5
Wade = 6

Number of seasons with 4+ Defensive WShares
Kobe = 5
Wade = 5

Total seasons played

Kobe = 15
Wade = 8

Career BPG//SPG
Kobe = .5 // 1.5
Wade = 1 // 1.7


Get out Troll.

[G-Funk]

1) Highest season PER was from 2005-06: 28.11

2) That season, he also had by far the highest usage rate (35.3) of any player ever since they started keeping track

3) He might’ve reached his overall individual apex at 24, dropping 30, 7, 6 and 2.2 steals a night in 2002-03

4) In January of that season, he averaged 43.4 points a game, the highest number for any player besides Wilt Chamberlain

5) In February of that season, Kobe scored 93 points (27-48 shooting) on Denver within seven quarters in 24 hours

6) During his string of 35-point games, he scored 551 points in 13 games

7) During that same stretch, he scored more points than any other Laker besides Shaquille O’Neal and Derek Fisher had over the entire year to that point (this was in February mind you)

8) Jordan made the playoffs 13 times with 179 games played and a 46.2% championship rate (six for six in the Finals). Bryant has made 14 postseason appearances (208 games), winning five of seven Finals and 35.7% of the time overall. Lebron ???

9) Last season, he actually averaged 26.9 points per 36 minutes, the third-highest number of his career

10) Last season, he also averaged 5.4 rebounds and 5.0 assists per 36 minutes, his best overall numbers since he was 29 years old

11) He has five 60-point games

12) Four of those 60-point games came in a span of 457 days (Dec. 20, 2005 – March 22, 2007)

13) Including playoffs, he has 117 40-plus point games and 25 50-plus games

14) In 2006-07, Bryant had 10 50-point games, the only player besides Chamberlain to do so in a season

15) In his 55-point game against the Wizards in 2003, Kobe scored 23 points during a 5:42 stretch in the first half. With 4:45 still left in the second quarter, Kobe hit a jumper to give him 40 points

16) A couple of interesting stats: Kobe had games with 62 against Dallas, 56 against Memphis, 52 against Utah and 51 against Denver and either sat for the entire fourth quarter or pretty much all of it

17) As #8: 707 regular season games

18) As #24: 396 regular season games

19) As #8, regular season: 24 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg

20) As #24, regular season: 28 ppg, 6 rpg, 5 apg

21) As #8, playoffs: 126 games

22) As #24, playoffs: 82 games

23) As #8, playoffs: 23 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg

24) As #24, playoffs: 29 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg

25) With Kobe, the Lakers have either made the Finals, won it all or lost to the eventual champs 10 out of the last 13 years

26) In 15 seasons with Kobe, the Lakers have won at least 50 games 11 times (and were on pace for more than 50 during the strike-shortened season).

27) They’ve won at least 56 games in 10 of those seasons.

28) They’ve averaged 53 wins a season since 1996-97.

29) His career regular season record is 792-406.

30) Kobe has played more minutes by his age than anyone in NBA history.

31) Has played in 38 NBA Finals games. Other great current NBA players: LeBron (10 games), Wade & Dirk (12 games), Shaq (30), Duncan (22), KG (13)

32) When Kobe scored his first NBA point, LeBron was 11 years old, Dwight Howard was 10 and Kevin Durant/Derrick Rose had both just turned 8

33) If he plays 82 games again this year (if we even have 82 games), Kobe would need to average exactly 26 points a game to eclipse 30,000 career points

[G-Funk]

hahaha at this kid thinking Wade is a better lockdown defender than a prime Kobe and a better scorer! hahaha

[D-Wade316]

Did not read

[32Dayz]

Everything you just posted was useless.

Big scoring games in one or two "regular season" who cares?

Also in 03 the Lakers went like 2-11 despite Kobe having those big scoring nights which shows how empty those stats are.

I know what his stats are you dont need to post them.

Wade is the better playoff performer period end of discussion.
The only thing Kobe has over Wade is longevity and barring Injury he will lose that advantage in a few years.

2007 - Kobe Games of 30+

2006-12-29 = 58points LA Loss to Charlotte
2007-03-30 = 53points (41% shooting) LA Loss to HOU - LoL
2007-04-12 = 50points LA Loss to Clippers
2006-12-17 = 45points LA Loss to WAS
2007-03-06 = 40points LA Loss to Minnesota
2007-04-03 = 39points LA Loss to Denver
2007-02-11 = 36points LA Loss to CLE - (Lebron > Kobe?)
2007-04-08 = 34points LA Loss to PHO - 7

2007-02-15 = 34points (40% shooting) - 6 Turnovers
LA Loss to CLE - (Lebron > Kobe?)

2006-12-13 = 33points LA Loss to Dallas

2007-01-26 = 32points (40% shooting) - 9 Turnovers
LA Loss to Charlotte

2006-11-08 = 32points - 6 Turnovers | LA Loss to Portland
2007-03-04 = 31points (39% shooting) LA Loss to PHO
2007-02-13 = 31points LA Loss to NYN
2007-01-28 = 31points LA Loss to SAS
2007-03-09 = 30points LA Loss to PHI
2007-03-02 = 30points LA Loss to SAC

[Noob Saibot]

Is the OP serious? LMAO. Dwyane Wade and Dirk in 2011 are the only players that i can think of who elevate their level of play come playoff time.

In the regular season, sure you can go with Kobe Jordan.
But if its for a big playoff game? I'm taking Flash!

[G-Funk]

Is the OP serious? LMAO. Dwyane Wade and Dirk in 2011 are the only players that i can think of who elevate their level of play come playoff time.

In the regular season, sure you can go with Kobe Jordan.
But if its for a big playoff game? I'm taking Flash!
The only finals Wade has won is an contreversal one where he was gifted 16fts per game

[32Dayz]

The only finals Wade has won is an contreversal one where he was gifted 16fts per game

25ppg or 75% of his points in that series were on FG's.

Try again. :facepalm

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Too many people get wrapped up in "talent" and "skill". Guess what, they're both reflected in performance out on the court, which is measured in, you guessed it, stats. If Kobe's talent and skill doesn't translate to on the court performance, it is meaningless.

Who cares about 'ability' if it hasn't been brought out consistently?

[Sakkreth]

Yes it should and it will, but Kobe vs MJ shouldn't.

[DMAVS41]

Too many people get wrapped up in "talent" and "skill". Guess what, they're both reflected in performance out on the court, which is measured in, you guessed it, stats. If Kobe's talent and skill doesn't translate to on the court performance, it is meaningless.

Who cares about 'ability' if it hasn't been brought out consistently?

Yep. Its about impact on the court. I love how nearly every objective measure has these two about as close as possible....yet you hear people saying its clear cut. Makes no sense.

This isn't Kobe vs Manu or Ray Allen. This is Kobe vs a player that has a good chance to go down as the 2nd or 3rd best sg of all time. A player that has played in the same era against the same teams and had played at the same level...if not better when it matters most.

Its just the way I look at players....at the elite level like this, I just don't care all that much about the regular season. Do I care that Kobe drops 40 more often against inept teams in the regular season? And its not just Kobe. I don't care all that much about what MJ was doing in the regular season against scrub teams.....that isn't what makes a player great or separates him from the pack.

Its the playoffs. And in the playoffs....I think I'd slightly rather have Wade than Kobe. I think his game is harder to hold down. I think Wade is a better teammate. I think he's a bit more unselfish. But its close....I'd rather have Kobe in the clutch or taking a game winner....

Wade, like Kobe, just has that "it" factor in the playoffs.....there is something special about them. I just think Wade has more of "it".....

But, we'll hear idiots go on about all defensie teams or all nba teams....or some other BS instead of looking at all the objective stuff. And that is why its a shame that those honors have been such a joke lately....the history of the game is being altered....and that isn't fair or right.

[Cali Syndicate]

Wade's Mid Range Game is almost as good as Kobe's has ever been

Wade from 10-15 feet out
2007 42%
2008 37%
2009 42%
2010 34%
2011 38.5%

Kobe from 10-15 feet out
2007 48%
2008 44%
2009 45%
2010 49.7%
2011 51.5%

Not even comparable.

[32Dayz]

Wade from 10-15 feet out

Made Up Numbers.

Not even comparable.

I have the actual numbers.

Kobe has been maybe 1-2% better on average from Mid-Range over the last 5-6 Years.

Wade actually shoots a better % in the playoffs.

[Cali Syndicate]

I have the actual numbers.

Kobe has been maybe 1-2% better on average from Mid-Range over the last 5-6 Years.

Wade actually shoots a better % in the playoffs.

I don't know how you got your numbers but I got the numbers I posted from hoopsdata.com and they show Kobe clearly being more efficient from 10-15 "mid-range"

[32Dayz]

I don't know how you got your numbers but I got the numbers I posted from hoopsdata.com and they show Kobe clearly being more efficient from 10-15 "mid-range"

Mid Range wise Kobe has only shot an insignificantly better % over Wade the last 5-6 years.

Kobe is a better 3PT shooter but not significantly better from MRange.

Also 2010 was one of his worst shooting years and it says he shot his highest % then?

more like Kobedata.com...

jk

i'll check it out.

[32Dayz]

Well.. not sure how legit that site is but according to their Data.

Wade is much better at converting by the rim and from 3-9 Feet.
Kobe is better from 10-15 feet and slightly better from 16-23 Feet.

Still if you put it all together they are about equal when it comes to Mid-Range shooting.

Kobe has an edge but its a very small one like I said earlier.

[bizil]

A prime D Wade against a prime Kobe is no cakewalk for Kobe. Frankly it will end up MJ, Kobe, and Wade as the GOAT SG's of all time. But in a GOAT debate, accolades, numbers, and longevity being great factor in. As of now, Kobe is way out in front of D Wade cause he's been in the L longer.

In terms of who's the actual better player peak wise, I will lean to Kobe. But it's no cakewalk. Peak Kobe was just so complete in all the facets. And his offensive arsenal could very well be the best of all time. But D Wade in my mind reminds me so much of the evolution of David Thompson. Both 6'4, freak athletes who play much bigger than their size, and Batman scorers who are killers on the court. Wade is a better all around player along with it. If Thompson would have stayed healthy, I think he would have went down as a top 6-7 GOAT SG of all time.

[Micku]

Wade from 10-15 feet out
2007 42%
2008 37%
2009 42%
2010 34%
2011 38.5%

Kobe from 10-15 feet out
2007 48%
2008 44%
2009 45%
2010 49.7%
2011 51.5%

Not even comparable.

In 2009 it was comparable. The 16-23 Feet they had the same percentage:

42%. Wade also took more shots around that range than Kobe. However, that was the only year where he was good at the midrange. Wade's always been a better slasher tho.

Kobe was always the superior mid-range guy and shooter overall.

[Cali Syndicate]

Well.. not sure how legit that site is but according to their Data.

Wade is much better at converting by the rim and from 3-9 Feet.
Kobe is better from 10-15 feet and slightly better from 16-23 Feet.

Still if you put it all together they are about equal when it comes to Mid-Range shooting.

Kobe has an edge but its a very small one like I said earlier.

Wade is slightly better at 3-9 feet.

Kobe is far better from 10 feet out.

Kobe has a far better mid-range shooter, it's not even debatable dude. Wade's mid-range is just good enough where defenders have to at least respect it but his slashing ability that makes him a dangerous player. For Kobe it's his jump shooting, but his problem is he relies on it way too much.

And the gap for 10-15 feet is much wider than 3-9 feet. LOL at your choice of words. I can smell your biased attitude through my computer screen.

[32Dayz]

Wade is slightly better at 3-9 feet.

Kobe is far better from 10 feet out.

Kobe has a far better mid-range shooter, it's not even debatable dude. Wade's mid-range is just good enough where defenders have to at least respect it but his slashing ability that makes him a dangerous player. For Kobe it's his jump shooting, but his problem is he relies on it way too much.

And the gap for 10-15 feet is much wider than 3-9 feet. LOL at your choice of words. I can smell your biased attitude through my computer screen.

I really dont care.
It's my personal opinion that Kobe is not a significantly better Mid-Range shooter.

Also Converting at the rim and at close range 3-9 Feet is just as valuable as converting from other areas.

Wade can still find a way to get to the rim when he has to, Kobe is much worse at that and thus will more often rely on Jumpers which is a more risky at times way to play.

[G-Funk]

Wade from 10-15 feet out
2007 42%
2008 37%
2009 42%
2010 34%
2011 38.5%

Kobe from 10-15 feet out
2007 48%
2008 44%
2009 45%
2010 49.7%
2011 51.5%

Not even comparable.

thank u sir!

[jacobgoindum]

PER Reflects Production.

If you dont think Production matters then you can leave ISH.

Playoff PER

A's (Main Star) :
Shaq (00-02) : 29
Jordan (91-93 + 96-98) : 28.53

B's (Side-Kicks) :
Kobe (00-02) : 21
Pippen (91-93 + 96-98) : 19.5

The difference is clear and obvious.

2000 Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 22.8 PPG, 4.4 RPG, 4.4 APG, .464 FG%
Shaq - 28.2 PPG, 15.0 RPG, 3.4 APG, .546 FG%

2001 Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 31.6 PPG, 7.0 RPG, 6.3 APG, .492 FG%
Shaq - 29.3 PPG, 15.3 RPG, 2.5 APG, .547 FG%

2002 Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 26.6 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 4.4 APG, .418 FG%
Shaq - 26.4 PPG, 12.7 RPG, 2.6 APG, .510 FG%

Kobe led the Lakers in points and assists for the first 3 rounds of the Playoffs
2001 and 2002 was as 1A/1B as it gets
Shaq was the best player, but Kobe was not a "Pippen", I never saw pippen even come close to Jordan's point totals or lead the team in points for a couple of series or even the first 3 rounds, and for the whole 2001 and 2002 postseasons Shaq only outscored Kobe by less than 2 PPG (1.0 in '01 and 1.9 in '02), the lowest difference in PPG between Jordan and Pippen in the 90's championship runs was 9.6 PPG

[32Dayz]

Wade is still the more efficient scorer.

Always has and Always will be. :confusedshrug:

[32Dayz]

2001 and 2002 was as 1A/1B as it gets

Wrong, Kobe had B Production and in 00 and 02 they weren't even remotely close to eachother.

Shaq was scoring more or the same volume on far better effeciency how is that equal you retard?

Shaq was also the teams defensive anchor and main focus of the opposing teams defense.

Shaq led the team in Production by an enormous amount, there is no comparison between the two those years.

Prime Shaq >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe

Get off his balls you pathetic Stan. :facepalm

Playoff PER

A's (Main Star) :
Shaq (00-02) : 29
Jordan (91-93 + 96-98) : 28.53

B's (Side-Kicks) :
Kobe (00-02) : 21
Pippen (91-93 + 96-98) : 19.5

The difference is clear and obvious.

[jacobgoindum]

All time, it's Kobe. Right now and since 08-09, it's been Wade.

Kobe

2008-09
All NBA 1st Team
All NBA Defensive 1st Team
NBA Champion
NBA Finals MVP
30/5/6 Postseason

2009-10
All NBA 1st team
All NBA Defensive 1st Team
NBA Champion
NBA Finals MVP
29/6/6 Postseason

[jacobgoindum]

Wrong, Kobe had B Production and in 00 and 02 they weren't even remotely close to eachother.

Shaq was scoring more or the same volume on far better effeciency how is that equal you retard?

Shaq was also the teams defensive anchor and main focus of the opposing teams defense.

Shaq led the team in Production by an enormous amount, there is no comparison between the two those years.

Prime Shaq >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe

Get off his balls you pathetic Stan. :facepalm

Playoff PER

A's (Main Star) :
Shaq (00-02) : 29
Jordan (91-93 + 96-98) : 28.53

B's (Side-Kicks) :
Kobe (00-02) : 21
Pippen (91-93 + 96-98) : 19.5

The difference is clear and obvious.

2001 Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 31.6 PPG, 7.0 RPG, 6.3 APG, .492 FG%
Shaq - 29.3 PPG, 15.3 RPG, 2.5 APG, .547 FG%

2002 Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 26.6 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 4.4 APG, .418 FG%
Shaq - 26.4 PPG, 12.7 RPG, 2.6 APG, .510 FG%

:oldlol:

[32Dayz]

[B]2002 Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 26.6 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 4.4 APG, .418 FG%
Shaq - 26.4 PPG, 12.7 RPG, 2.6 APG, .510 FG%


That isnt close at all and when you factor in that the 0ffense was run through Shaq, he was the teams defensive anchor and always the main focus of the opposing defense it go's from not close at all to an absolute joke.

get off Kobe's balls. :facepalm

:facepalm

[D-Wade316]

Kobe

2008-09
All NBA 1st Team
All NBA Defensive 1st Team
NBA Champion
NBA Finals MVP
30/5/6 Postseason

2009-10
All NBA 1st team
All NBA Defensive 1st Team
NBA Champion
NBA Finals MVP
29/6/6 Postseason
:oldlol: @ All-defensive and all-nba team awards. Kobe didn't deserve shit in 09-10. He probably deserved All-nba in 08-09 but not all-defensive. Just ask PJ how much effort Kobe gives in defense. And LOL @ basic stats. You didn't even post his fg%, ts%, and efg%.

[jacobgoindum]

That isnt close at all and when you factor in that the 0ffense was run through Shaq, he was the teams defensive anchor and always the main focus of the opposing defense it go's from not close at all to an absolute joke.

get off Kobe's balls. :facepalm

:facepalm

Im not on Kobe's ball
Just pointing out that you are wrong

Shaq/Kobe wasn't even close to a Jordan/Pippen relation in '01 and '02
2000 probably but '01 and '02? lol no

You are all over Shaq's balls 24/7

[32Dayz]

Im not on Kobe's ball
Just pointing out that you are wrong

Shaq/Kobe wasn't even close to a Jordan/Pippen relation in '01 and '02
2000 probably but '01 and '02? lol no

You are all over Shaq's balls 24/7

The difference in Production between Kobe/Shaq was the same between Jordan/Pippen so how is it not even close?
Shaq had better intangibles and was the focus of the opposing defense the same way Jordan was.
Its exactly the same.

Kobe contributed more with scoring and Pippen was more Scoring/Defense/Passing but its the same contributions overall.

only complete and utter morons think it was close enough to say 1a/1b.

but whatever keep thinking Kobe = Prime Shaq

[jacobgoindum]

:oldlol: @ All-defensive and all-nba team awards. Kobe didn't deserve shit in 09-10. He probably deserved All-nba in 08-09 but not all-defensive. Just ask PJ how much effort Kobe gives in defense. And LOL @ basic stats. You didn't even post his fg%, ts%, and efg%.

2009 Playoffs
30.2 PPG
5.3 RPG
5.5 APG
45.7 FG%
56.4 TS%
NBA Champion
NBA Finals MVP

2010 Playoffs
29.2 PPG
6.0 RPG
5.5 APG
45.8 FG%
37.4 3PT%
56.7 TS%
NBA Champion
NBA Finals MVP

[32Dayz]

:oldlol: @ All-defensive and all-nba team awards. Kobe didn't deserve shit in 09-10. He probably deserved All-nba in 08-09 but not all-defensive. Just ask PJ how much effort Kobe gives in defense. And LOL @ basic stats. You didn't even post his fg%, ts%, and efg%.

Stats dont matter.

5 rings >>>>>>>>>>>>>

Russell > Horry > Jordan > Kobe > Wade :applause:

[jacobgoindum]

The difference in Production between Kobe/Shaq was the same between Jordan/Pippen so how is it not even close?
Shaq had better intangibles and was the focus of the opposing defense the same way Jordan was.
Its exactly the same.

Kobe contributed more with scoring and Pippen was more Scoring/Defense/Passing but its the same contributions overall.

only complete and utter morons think it was close enough to say 1a/1b.

but whatever keep thinking Kobe = Prime Shaq

:facepalm

Kobe led the Lakers in Points and Assists through the first 3 rounds of the 2001 and 2002 Playoffs

and I never said the 2000 was 1A/1B, 2001 and 2002 was

[Heavincent]

32Dayz has either been hit in the head one too many times, or not enough.

It's convenient for a Kobe-hater to act like Kobe wasn't a top 3 player in the league for two out of his three rings with Shaq, but not logical. Kobe was a side-kick in 2000, I'll give you that. But in 01 and 02? No way. No way in hell. Lets take a look, shall we?

Kobe's stats in 01 playoffs: 29/7/6 on 47% shooting
Kobe's stats in 02 playoffs: 27/6/5 on 45% shooting

Those are definitely NOT sidekick numbers. And lets not forget that Kobe was great at closing out games and was an elite defender. Calling Kobe a mere sidekick is just ****ing stupid. Any current player would have been a second option behind Shaq. Lebron, Wade, and of those guys. Downplaying the significance of Kobe's first three rings is just ****ing retarded and only something a person with complete bias against Kobe would do.

Also, people always talk about how Kobe had a good big man for all 5 of his championships, but no one ever talks about how Shaq never won a ring without an elite SG :confusedshrug: Can we at least stay consistent here?

The distance between Kobe and Gasol is WAY bigger than the distance between Shaq and Kobe. Kobe was a top 3 player in the league in 01 and 02. Gasol wasn't even top 10 in 09 and 10.

[32Dayz]

:facepalm

Kobe led the Lakers in Points and Assists through the first 3 rounds of the 2001 and 2002 Playoffs

and I never said the 2000 was 1A/1B, 2001 and 2002 was

There is more to scoring then just points.

He may have led the team in points by .0001 or whatever but when you factor in efficiency and how each player was defended its obvious who the better scorer was and who was more impactful on the 0ffensive end and its really not that close.

01 I will say was closer then Jordan/Pippen ever were to eachother but 00 and 02 were exactly the same.

Even the gap in 01 was sizable enough thats its laughable to say 1a/1b.

[jacobgoindum]

32Dayz has either been hit the hit one too many times, or not enough.

It's convenient for a Kobe-hater to act like Kobe wasn't a top 3 player in the league for two out of his three rings with Shaq, but not logical. Kobe was a side-kick in 2000, I'll give you that. But in 01 and 02? No way. No way in hell. Lets take a look, shall we?

Kobe's stats in 01 playoffs: 29/7/6 on 47% shooting
Kobe's stats in 02 playoffs: 27/6/5 on 45% shooting

Those are definitely NOT sidekick numbers. And lets not forget that Kobe was great at closing out games and was an elite defender. Calling Kobe a mere sidekick is just ****ing stupid. Any current player would have been a second option behind Shaq. Lebron, Wade, and of those guys. Downplaying the significance of Kobe's first three rings is just ****ing retarded and only something a person with complete bias against Kobe would do.

Also, people always talk about how Kobe had a good big man for all 5 of his championships, but no one ever talks about how Shaq never won a ring without an elite SG :confusedshrug: Can we at least stay consistent here?

The distance between Kobe and Gasol is WAY bigger than the distance between Shaq and Kobe. Kobe was a top 3 player in the league in 01 and 02. Gasol wasn't even top 10 in 09 and 10.

Great post

[jacobgoindum]

:blah :blah :blah


Everything you post is laughable

[32Dayz]

32Dayz has either been hit the hit one too many times, or not enough.

It's convenient for a Kobe-hater to act like Kobe wasn't a top 3 player in the league for two out of his three rings with Shaq, but not logical. Kobe was a side-kick in 2000, I'll give you that. But in 01 and 02? No way. No way in hell. Lets take a look, shall we?

Kobe's stats in 01 playoffs: 29/7/6 on 47% shooting
Kobe's stats in 02 playoffs: 27/6/5 on 45% shooting

Those are definitely NOT sidekick numbers. And lets not forget that Kobe was great at closing out games and was an elite defender. Calling Kobe a mere sidekick is just ****ing stupid. Any current player would have been a second option behind Shaq. Lebron, Wade, and of those guys. Downplaying the significance of Kobe's first three rings is just ****ing retarded and only something a person with complete bias against Kobe would do.

Also, people always talk about how Kobe had a good big man for all 5 of his championships, but no one ever talks about how Shaq never won a ring without an elite SG :confusedshrug: Can we at least stay consistent here?

The distance between Kobe and Gasol is WAY bigger than the distance between Shaq and Kobe. Kobe was a top 3 player in the league in 01 and 02. Gasol wasn't even top 10 in 09 and 10.

Your an idiot, no one is downplaying Kobe's contributions.
He was a Top player in the league in 01 and 02 but he wasnt close to Shaq those years.

Prime Shaq >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe
Kobe 09 >>> Gasol 09
Kobe 10 = Gasol 10

LMFAO @ you actually thinking the gap between those two was bigger. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[D-Wade316]

2009 Playoffs
30.2 PPG
5.3 RPG
5.5 APG
45.7 FG%
56.4 TS%
NBA Champion
NBA Finals MVP

2010 Playoffs
29.2 PPG
6.0 RPG
5.5 APG
45.8 FG%
56.7 TS%
NBA Champion
NBA Finals MVP
2006 Playoffs
28.4ppg on 49.7fg%, 59.3ts%, 51.2efg%
5.9rpg on 8.4trb%
5.7apg on 27.9ast%
26.9PER
41.7mpg
NBA Champion
NBA Finals MVP

Wade 06 >>>
Shaq>>>>>>>>>

[HBKMGa]

Everything you post is laughable

Everything he posts is about Kobe

[jacobgoindum]

2006 Playoffs
28.4ppg on 49.7fg%, 59.3ts%, 51.2efg%
5.9rpg on 8.4trb%
5.7apg on 27.9ast%
26.9PER
41.7mpg
NBA Champion
NBA Finals MVP

Wade 06 >>>

Wade 06 >>> what?

[32Dayz]

Everything he posts is about Kobe

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm217/Allume-Le-Cirque/Sig/Kobe-U-Mad.jpg

[jacobgoindum]

Your an idiot, no one is downplaying Kobe's contributions.
He was a Top player in the league in 01 and 02 but he wasnt close to Shaq those years.

Prime Shaq >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe
Kobe 09 >>> Gasol 09
Kobe 10 = Gasol 10

LMFAO @ you actually thinking the gap between those two was bigger. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

If I was a doctor I would diagnose you with mental retardation

[32Dayz]

Playoff PER

A's (Main Star) :
Shaq (00-02) : 29
Jordan (91-93 + 96-98) : 28.53

B's (Side-Kicks) :
Kobe (00-02) : 21
Pippen (91-93 + 96-98) : 19.5

The difference is clear and obvious.

Comparison Between Kobe/Gasol in 2010.

Regular Season PER / WShares
Gasol : 22.9 ||| 11
Kobe : 21.9 ||| 9.4

Playoff PER / WShares
Gasol : 24 ||| 4.7
Kobe : 24.7 ||| 3.6

Gasol >= Kobe in 2010

Kobe Stan's = :mad:

[Heavincent]

Your an idiot, no one is downplaying Kobe's contributions.
He was a Top player in the league in 01 and 02 but he wasnt close to Shaq those years.

Prime Shaq >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe
Kobe 09 >>> Gasol 09
Kobe 10 = Gasol 10

LMFAO @ you actually thinking the gap between those two was bigger. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

"Your an idiot"

How ironic. It's "you're". At least have proper grammar if you're going to insult someone's intelligence. I'm way smarter than you'll ever be anyway.

09 Kobe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 09 Gasol
10 Kobe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10 Gasol

You're a complete ****ing moron if you think otherwise. The gap between Kobe and Gasol in both 09 and 10 is significant.

By the way, I'm not saying Kobe was better than Shaq. I'm saying he wasn't just a mere sidekick. He was one of the best players in the league.

[32Dayz]

If I was a doctor I would diagnose you with mental retardation

You aren't smart enough to be a Doctor.

:no:

[D-Wade316]

Wade 06 >>> what?
Any version of Kobe

[32Dayz]

10 Kobe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10 Gasol

You're a complete ****ing moron if you think otherwise. The gap between Kobe and Gasol in both 09 and 10 is significant.

By the way, I'm not saying Kobe was better than Shaq. I'm saying he wasn't just a mere sidekick. He was one of the best players in the league.

Comparison Between Kobe/Gasol in 2010.

Regular Season PER / WShares
Gasol : 22.9 ||| 11
Kobe : 21.9 ||| 9.4

Playoff PER / WShares
Gasol : 24 ||| 4.7
Kobe : 24.7 ||| 3.6

2010 Playoff Summary.
Gasol better in 12/23 Games.
Kobe better in 10/23 Games.

Gasol >= Kobe in 2010

:wtf:

[pegasus]

You aren't smart enough to be a Doctor.

:no:

And you're stupid enough to capitalize the D.

[RRR3]

Comparison Between Kobe/Gasol in 2010.

Regular Season PER / WShares
Gasol : 22.9 ||| 11
Kobe : 21.9 ||| 9.4

Playoff PER / WShares
Gasol : 24 ||| 4.7
Kobe : 24.7 ||| 3.6

Gasol >= Kobe in 2010

:wtf:
:facepalm Win shares are a shitty stat. PER is good, but not without context. You have to realize Gasol is more efficient (at least in terms of FG%) because he takes less difficult shots and has the ball a lot less/is the second option/doesn't command as much defensive attention/etc. It doesn't matter who was more "efficient", Kobe was more productive and simply a better player. Gasol is a SIDEKICK, ableit a very very good one.

[32Dayz]

:facepalm Win shares are a shitty stat. PER is good, but not without context. You have to realize Gasol is more efficient (at least in terms of FG%) because he takes less difficult shots and has the ball a lot less/is the second option/doesn't command as much defensive attention/etc. It doesn't matter who was more "efficient", Kobe was more productive and simply a better player. Gasol is a SIDEKICK, ableit a very very good one.

None of the bolded is true.

Quit underrating Gasol.
Kobe is not the reason he is productive and Kobe does not make the game significantly easier on him.

Gasol produces by himself and is a great 0ffensive player he makes the game easier for Kobe and creates for his teammates in a similar fashion to Bryant.

Teams double him in the post the same way Teams double Bryant in the post and occasionally Mid-Range area.

Lakers run the Triangle 0ffense not the Kobe 0ffense, this isnt Mike Brown in Cleveland.

[RRR3]

None of the bolded is true.

Quit underrated Gasol.
Kobe is not the reason he is productive and Kobe does not make the game significantly easier on him.

Gasol produces by himself and is a great 0ffensive player he makes the game easier for Kobe and creates for his teammates in a similar fashion to Bryant.
LOL what? Kobe has the ball a LOT more than Gasol, Gasol doesn't run the offense he's a PF and not in the KG sense where he could run the offense either. I never said he wasn't a great player, he's just on Kobe's level...that's nothing to be ashamed of.

[32Dayz]

LOL what? Kobe has the ball a LOT more than Gasol, Gasol doesn't run the offense he's a PF and not in the KG sense where he could run the offense either. I never said he wasn't a great player, he's just on Kobe's level...that's nothing to be ashamed of.

I disagree.

Prime Kobe >>> Gasol

2010 Kobe = 2010 Gasol

Kobe has the ball more but not "alot" more. They do feed Pau in the post "ALOT" and outside of when Kobe iso's they run the Triangle which directly involves feeding Pau in the post.

In the 4 Finalz wins in 2010 they were running the 0ffense through Pau in the post and thats why he was their best 0ffensive player and playmaker in those 4 Winning games.

Quit judging Kobe by his name and judge him by his actual performances.

[jacobgoindum]

Any version of Kobe

:roll: good one man

[ItsTwisted]

I disagree.

Prime Kobe >>> Gasol

2010 Kobe = 2010 Gasol

Kobe has the ball more but not "alot" more. They do feed Pau in the post "ALOT" and outside of when Kobe iso's they run the Triangle which directly involves feeding Pau in the post.

In the 4 Finalz wins in 2010 they were running the 0ffense through Pau in the post and thats why he was their best 0ffensive player and playmaker in those 4 Winning games.

Quit judging Kobe by his name and judge him by his actual performances.

Can I ask you an honest question, how many Laker games did you watch in the 2010-2011 season?

All I see you is bringing up stats, and while they are important, they dont always tell the whole story. Your arguments are baseless when you constantly shove stats down peoples throats, especially stats that they are already aware of.

Everybody has their opinion, and Wade fans will always say Wade is better, though some of them in this very thread are admitting Kobe is better, and then you have people like you, who are sooo biased towards one player that they cant truly comprehend logical arguments.

Also you still didnt answer me how Shaq is arguable for GOAT, and dont go bringing up stats, especially stats that I am very well aware of. I watched both players, but I want to see your take on it. I want you to tell me how Shaqs presence on the floor and the people around him supports your claim that he is anywhere close to Jordan.

[Doctor Rivers]

Wade is still the more efficient scorer.

Always has and Always will be. :confusedshrug:

This