How much is Tim Duncan better than David Robinson?

[Micku]

If you look at David Robinson regular season stats, it's almost silly to suggest that Tim Duncan is better. David Robinson was better at scoring, blocking shots, and he dealt with more competition in his position with Shaq, Hakeem, Ewing, Mutombo and other good centers of the 90s.

David Robinson not only lead the league in scoring at one point, but he also has a DPOY in his belt, beating out Hakeem, Pippen, Jordan, and Rodman. He is also on record of having 71 points in a single game.

Despite all of this, Tim Duncan is still better. But how much better is he? One of the difference between them is that David Robinson was more of a disappointment in the playoffs and his stats would take a drop while Tim Duncan would either stay consistent or get better. Duncan was better rebounder too.

But is Tim Duncan a better offensively player than David Robinson was in his prime? Was Duncan a better defensive player than the Admiral? Is he just consider better because of his playoff performances? Do Duncan just make his teammates better than David Robinson, but David Robinson was the better individual player?

[28renyoy]

Robinson was easily the better regular season player and a top 5 regular season player all time. But the guy just flat out choked in the playoffs.

[Harison]

Robinson in his prime was a better player than Duncan, and even though his game didnt translated that well to Playoffs, his "choking" is obviously exaggerated.

Its all about perception: Robinson's Playoffs numbers were usually a bit lower than regular season's, while Duncan's vice versa. And yet due to much better DRob Regular seasons numbers, even improved TD numbers just closed the gap, and wasnt really much better than Robinsons, plus we should remember DRob was a better defender.

Then we have timing of the eras. Place Robinson in current NBA, and he would tear league apart, place Duncan in the Golden age, and if anything, he would be remembered as a "choker" :oldlol: Or famous series vs Hakeem, Duncan would have lost just as well, nor he would have been MVP in the 1st place.

Then we have 'career numbers comparison', while forgetting Robinson played till 37, and had serious injury at 31. TD numbers after 3 years will naturally be lower. And even as it is now - at 34 Robinson in the Playoffs had 23.5/13.8/2.5, while Duncan with 12.7/10.5/2.7 was killed by 8th place as 1st seed.

[Pushxx]

It's not unreasonable to put DRob over Duncan, but Duncan was a better playoff performer and arguably contributed more to his team as a leader.

For me it's a clear edge to Duncan over his career. He just flat out accomplished more.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Duncan was a much better player with his back to the basket than Robinson, which is why I prefer him offensively and why his game translated better to the playoffs.

Robinson had a good mid-range jumper and was so quick that combined with his ability to hit the shot, he could almost always drive to the basket vs his man, making him a deadly face up big man. Except he did seem to play softer in the playoffs.

Aside from that, he ran the floor as well if not better than any big man I've seen and was about as good of a player for lob passes as you'll find. But less easy baskets like that are available in the playoffs when the game slows down and defenses tighten up.

Very good passer, though I'd say Duncan was better in this regard. Good rebounder, though I'd favor Duncan slightly in this area.

Defense is where David was every bit as good as advertised, but Duncan was also pretty much as good as it gets.

His playoff numbers are even less impressive when you factor in who the few big offensive series(statistically) came against.

1 was the 1990 Nuggets who defined the run and gun style.

27.7 ppg, 59.3 FG%, 63 TS% (pace in the series was 108.8)

The next series vs Portland he was down to 22.9 ppg on 50.4 FG%/55.8 TS%

Not bad, but not great and among the better series from his prime.

His playoff numbers also benefited from the run and gun early 90's West when he faced the Run TMC Warriors. When you see his numbers, you'll think he dominated.

25.8 ppg, 68.6 FG%, 76 TS%

But watch the series and not only will you see that he wasn't taking over those games, but you'll hear the commentators mention that his numbers seemed quiet. And then keep in mind that the Warriors were the 5th worst defensive team in the entire league and that Robinson's 55 win Spurs lost to the 44 win Warriors.

In fact, it was very normal for stars to put up huge numbers against the Warriors of this era. And this is one of the cases where the numbers look a lot better than the impact, as evidenced by him losing in 4 games to a team that won 11 fewer games.

The 3rd big playoff series offensively came against the '96 Suns when he averaged 30 ppg on 55.6 FG%/62 TS%, but similar to Golden State in '91, Phoenix was the 7th worst defensive team in the entire league(in a league with several expansion teams), and the worst in the entire playoffs. You'll see the drop vs Utah in that same playoffs.

And then there are these other series from Robinson's '90-'96 prime.

1993 1st round vs Portland- 19.3 ppg, 42.6 FG%, 48.7 TS%
1994 1st round vs Utah- 20 ppg, 41.1 FG%, 47.1 TS%
1995 1st round vs Denver- 19 ppg, 42.9 FG%, 49.3 TS%
1996 semifinals vs Utah- 19.3 ppg, 47.5 FG%, 52.6 TS%

Shows you that he was never as good of a scorer as his regular season numbers suggest. I also think that Duncan's numbers would receive a bit of a boost if he switches place with prime Robinson.

[magnax1]

Robinson in his prime was a better player than Duncan, and even though his game didnt translated that well to Playoffs, his "choking" is obviously exaggerated.

Its all about perception: Robinson's Playoffs numbers were usually a bit lower than regular season's, while Duncan's vice versa. And yet due to much better DRob Regular seasons numbers, even improved TD numbers just closed the gap, and wasnt really much better than Robinsons, plus we should remember DRob was a better defender.

Then we have timing of the eras. Place Robinson in current NBA, and he would tear league apart, place Duncan in the Golden age, and if anything, he would be remembered as a "choker" :oldlol: Or famous series vs Hakeem, Duncan would have lost just as well, nor he would have been MVP in the 1st place.

Then we have 'career numbers comparison', while forgetting Robinson played till 37, and had serious injury at 31. TD numbers after 3 years will naturally be lower. And even as it is now - at 34 Robinson in the Playoffs had 23.5/13.8/2.5, while Duncan with 12.7/10.5/2.7 was killed by 8th place as 1st seed.
Mostly agree with this. I think Duncan was a better defender, but it's true that Duncan basically closed the gap in the playoffs. The gap between the two overall is pretty small.

[The_Yearning]

Then we have 'career numbers comparison', while forgetting Robinson played till 37, and had serious injury at 31. TD numbers after 3 years will naturally be lower. And even as it is now - at 34 Robinson in the Playoffs had 23.5/13.8/2.5, while Duncan with 12.7/10.5/2.7 was killed by 8th place as 1st seed.

Funny thing, at 34 he had Tim Duncan playing alongside him, drawing most if not all of the attention. Tim Duncan has been the undisputed man his whole career.

[Kblaze8855]

Im guessing the 23/14 is when they got beat(perhaps swept) by "Backcourt 2000" when Duncan went down before the playoffs.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Im guessing the 23/14 is when they got beat(perhaps swept) by "Backcourt 2000" when Duncan went down before the playoffs.

They won 1 game, though Kidd himself didn't return until the final game, iirc due to broken foot or broken ankle.

[Big#50]

Duncan had that extra gear few players have.
MJ
Shaq
Hakeem
TIM
Robinson had all the talent in the world but he was a softie. DROB would rather read you his favorite bible story than bang with you in the post.

[PTB Fan]

Tim Duncan was better than David Robinson IMO. Consistency, rebounding, defense, post offense, accomplishments, clutch, leadership all favor Timmy to be ranked ahead the Admiral.

[Shepseskaf]

DRob was more physically gifted than Duncan. In truth, he had more physical tools than 99% of the league, but Duncan was a better player.

I never got the feeling that Robinson really loved the game, like, say, Patrick Ewing did. He basically played because he was 7' and unbelievably quick. If Robinson was 6', I'm guessing that he would have become an engineer, whereas some -- like Ewing -- would probably have been playing ball despite lack of size.

[Rake2204]

Mostly agree with this. I think Duncan was a better defender, but it's true that Duncan basically closed the gap in the playoffs. The gap between the two overall is pretty small.
I disagree. I believe David Robinson is the better defender.

I thought they were both great though. And to have David Robinson willingly allow Tim Duncan to slowly take over the spotlight in San Antonio was one of the coolest things ever. I think some of the criticisms Robinson tends to receive in terms of his mindset and/or softness is actually what allowed his team to ultimately succeed. A clash between aging superstar and new guy would have led San Antonio right where they'd been the previous ten years. Instead, David accepted and flourished in any role required.

[Dragonyeuw]

David Robinson's legacy mainly suffered from one thing: the 95 playoff series against the Rockets and Hakeem. I have a feeling if you take that series away, he'd be far more respected than he is.

[Kblaze8855]

They won 1 game, though Kidd himself didn't return until the final game, iirc due to broken foot or broken ankle.

Last time Penny looked like Penny.

[eliteballer]

Post game and killer instinct are the biggest difference, although regular season DRob is as good:

30 pts, 11 reb, 4 ast, 3 blk 2 stl, 50% FG

[Smoke117]

He isn't. Most of you kids are just too young to even have a real opinion on the matter. David Robinson: The most under appreciated player on any forum. IF anything to suggest that Tim Duncan was better defensively is just plain laughable.

[32Dayz]

IF anything to suggest that Tim Duncan was better defensively is just plain laughable.

I agree 100% with you there. :cheers:

DRob was always on another level defensively.

[Lebron23]

Duncan was a much better player with his back to the basket than Robinson, which is why I prefer him offensively and why his game translated better to the playoffs.

Robinson had a good mid-range jumper and was so quick that combined with his ability to hit the shot, he could almost always drive to the basket vs his man, making him a deadly face up big man. Except he did seem to play softer in the playoffs.

Aside from that, he ran the floor as well if not better than any big man I've seen and was about as good of a player for lob passes as you'll find. But less easy baskets like that are available in the playoffs when the game slows down and defenses tighten up.

Very good passer, though I'd say Duncan was better in this regard. Good rebounder, though I'd favor Duncan slightly in this area.

Defense is where David was every bit as good as advertised, but Duncan was also pretty much as good as it gets.

His playoff numbers are even less impressive when you factor in who the few big offensive series(statistically) came against.

1 was the 1990 Nuggets who defined the run and gun style.

27.7 ppg, 59.3 FG%, 63 TS% (pace in the series was 108.8)

The next series vs Portland he was down to 22.9 ppg on 50.4 FG%/55.8 TS%

Not bad, but not great and among the better series from his prime.

His playoff numbers also benefited from the run and gun early 90's West when he faced the Run TMC Warriors. When you see his numbers, you'll think he dominated.

25.8 ppg, 68.6 FG%, 76 TS%

But watch the series and not only will you see that he wasn't taking over those games, but you'll hear the commentators mention that his numbers seemed quiet. And then keep in mind that the Warriors were the 5th worst defensive team in the entire league and that Robinson's 55 win Spurs lost to the 44 win Warriors.

In fact, it was very normal for stars to put up huge numbers against the Warriors of this era. And this is one of the cases where the numbers look a lot better than the impact, as evidenced by him losing in 4 games to a team that won 11 fewer games.

The 3rd big playoff series offensively came against the '96 Suns when he averaged 30 ppg on 55.6 FG%/62 TS%, but similar to Golden State in '91, Phoenix was the 7th worst defensive team in the entire league(in a league with several expansion teams), and the worst in the entire playoffs. You'll see the drop vs Utah in that same playoffs.

And then there are these other series from Robinson's '90-'96 prime.

1993 1st round vs Portland- 19.3 ppg, 42.6 FG%, 48.7 TS%
1994 1st round vs Utah- 20 ppg, 41.1 FG%, 47.1 TS%
1995 1st round vs Denver- 19 ppg, 42.9 FG%, 49.3 TS%
1996 semifinals vs Utah- 19.3 ppg, 47.5 FG%, 52.6 TS%

Shows you that he was never as good of a scorer as his regular season numbers suggest. I also think that Duncan's numbers would receive a bit of a boost if he switches place with prime Robinson.

Those were horrible numbers for an NBA Superstar.

[Smoke117]

Those were horrible numbers for an NBA Superstar.

How convenient to only talk about the bad post seasons he had. What about how a ROOKIE David Robinson and the Spurs swept the Nuggets in 1990 and took the Blazers who went to the eventual finals to 7 games?

He averaged 24.3ppg 12.0rpg 2.3apg 4.0bpg 1.1spg .533fg% .581ts%. Yeah what a failure in the playoffs. Also in the 96 playoffs he actually had a good playoffs all in all. It's easy to bag on David Robinson but look who he was actually playing with in 96 and tell me that was some great squad. He had 18.9 winshares for the year and nobody else had more than 9.1. The only reason they even won 59 games was BECAUSE OF DAVID ROBINSON and they way he could lift teams that weren't that great and put them on his massive shoulders. They were 3rd in drating as a team with a 103.5...and David Robinson led the team with a 96. (which led the entire league) Yeah that shows you who made that defense. The Jazz and Jerry Sloan obviously thought...well you take David Robinson out of the picture and you pull apart the team. Doesn't take a master of basketball to figure that out.

[JellyBean]

I got the Admiral. He was a lot stronger, quicker, and more athletic than Tim Duncan.

[JellyBean]

He isn't. Most of you kids are just too young to even have a real opinion on the matter. David Robinson: The most under appreciated player on any forum. IF anything to suggest that Tim Duncan was better defensively is just plain laughable.


Thank you. I am sure that there might be some older guys in here who might think that Tim was better than David. I don't see how but there is their choice. I just look at what David was up against compared to what Tim was facing. David was a beast who carried a team during, probably, the greatest era of the NBA. To even think that Timmy was better than David is laughable.

[Carbine]

Robinson didn't even get his team to the finals once as the man.....damn, he only got his team to a conference finals ONCE as the man and got embarrassed.

If you're better than a guy who took a not so talented team to a title and won three others as the man....you'd think you'd be able to get to at least one finals, and surely more than one conference final while you were the man.

Especially in the conference that didn't have Jordan.

[Big#50]

Robinson had no guts. All the skills in the world, but no killier instinct. How can anyone think he was better than Tim Duncan?

[rodman91]

Prime Tim Duncan had 3 main advantages over Robinson.

1.Better post plays.
2.Deadly bankshot.
3.Cold blood in his veins.

Robinson was better almost anything else but those 3 things enough to make Duncan more dangerous than Robinson.

This comparision reminds me Duncan vs Garnett.

[Smoke117]

It's not like Robinson was totally incompetent with his back to the basket. I seriously wonder how many of you even saw him play before the Duncan era. The guy had post skills. He mainly used his face up because who could stay in front him? He was an athletic freak with great ball handling skills for a guy his size and could just drive right by his man. This guy ran the fast break like he was a SF. He was not one of those centers at the end trailing, David Robinson was the one you were throwing it to and finishing the play.

The whole deadly bank shot advantage made me laugh as David Robinson was a better shooter than Tim Duncan. Who cares if you use the backboard or not...Robinson had a better jump shot, period.

Also you should add the most important main advantage Tim Duncan had over David Robinson: BETTER TEAMMATES.

[bizil]

Prime Tim Duncan had 3 main advantages over Robinson.

1.Better post plays.
2.Deadly bankshot.
3.Cold blood in his veins.

Robinson was better almost anything else but those 3 things enough to make Duncan more dangerous than Robinson.

This comparision reminds me Duncan vs Garnett.

That sums it up right there. Duncan had more ways to dominate scoring than David. Duncan could also put the ball on the floor and take u off the dribble. David was just more explosive and a freakish type athlete. Duncan, McHale, and Hakeem are the gold standard on the block in terms of scoring. It's arguable either way. Duncan CLEARLY had the better career GOAT wise. Peak value wise it's damn close. But if somebody said The Admiral I wouldn't complain at all. At his best, u are getting 30 points, 5 dimes, 11-12 boards, and DPOY caliber type of defense.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Last time Penny looked like Penny.

Yeah, people seem to forget that he was playing like an all-star caliber player in 2000. Played really well in the playoffs, dropped 30+ a few times and had a triple double, iirc. Phoenix had a ton of talent that year, just had too many injuries.


Post game and killer instinct are the biggest difference, although regular season DRob is as good:

30 pts, 11 reb, 4 ast, 3 blk 2 stl, 50% FG

Yeah, though those numbers were aided by some blatant statpadding, not just the 71 point game. John Lucas leaving David Robinson in games that were decided so he could act like a cheerleader each time Robinson added to his stats is one of the funniest and oddest NBA images I can think of.

That and the fact that he was down to 20/10, 41 FG% in the first round loss makes his '94 season less impressive to me.


How convenient to only talk about the bad post seasons he had. What about how a ROOKIE David Robinson and the Spurs swept the Nuggets in 1990 and took the Blazers who went to the eventual finals to 7 games?

He averaged 24.3ppg 12.0rpg 2.3apg 4.0bpg 1.1spg .533fg% .581ts%. Yeah what a failure in the playoffs.

And again, it was 27.7 ppg, 13.7 rpg 59.3 FG%, 63 TS% vs the run and gun Nuggets

And 22.9 ppg, 11.3 rpg on 50.4 FG%/55.8 TS% vs Portland.

The Denver numbers make his numbers for the run look better, and the Portland numbers aren't bad, but how many times has Duncan put up better numbers than 23/11 on 50% in a series?


Also in the 96 playoffs he actually had a good playoffs all in all. It's easy to bag on David Robinson but look who he was actually playing with in 96 and tell me that was some great squad.

You mean he was really good against Phoenix(one of the worst defensive teams in the league in a league that had several expansion teams) and really disappointing vs Utah?


He had 18.9 winshares for the year and nobody else had more than 9.1. The only reason they even won 59 games was BECAUSE OF DAVID ROBINSON and they way he could lift teams that weren't that great and put them on his massive shoulders.

Ah win shares, this is when I start to see I'm probably wasting my time debating with someone.


They were 3rd in drating as a team with a 103.5...and David Robinson led the team with a 96. (which led the entire league) Yeah that shows you who made that defense. The Jazz and Jerry Sloan obviously thought...well you take David Robinson out of the picture and you pull apart the team. Doesn't take a master of basketball to figure that out.

Nobody has denied that David was one of the greatest defensive players of all time. But regarding your other point. Most teams are going to struggle when their star averages 25 ppg on 52% shooting all season and then drops to 19 ppg on 48% in a playoff series.

Nobody is saying he isn't a great player, or elite player, but when he's compared to a guy like Duncan, these things are going to be brought up. He gets less heat for these things than Kobe and Lebron do for lesser things. It comes with being a great player.

[Anaximandro1]

Was Duncan a better defensive player than the Admiral?It's close


But is Tim Duncan a better offensively player than David Robinson was in his prime? Tim is a much better scorer partly because he is more skilled,particularly in the low post.That gives Tim a huge edge over David during the playoffs.

Morover,I think Tim has a higher basketball IQ than David.


If you look at David Robinson regular season stats, it's almost silly to suggest that Tim Duncan is better.
If you look at playoff stats,it's almost silly to suggest otherwise.

Duncan (176 Games) 22.7 pt (50.2%), 12.4 rb,2.6 blk,3.4 as,
Robinson (123 Games) 18.1 pt (47.9%),10.6 rb,2.5 blk,2.3 as

Pop would certainly choose Tim over David,without hesitation

[Round Mound]

I would call it a tie.

Defensively its not even close D-Rob was Better

Offensively? D-Rob might have scored 71 against the pathetic clippers but Duncan shot a higher % especially in the play-offs

Rebounding...goes to Duncan

Passing....goes to Duncan.

Shot Blocking, Stealing and Interior D? D-Rob...he lead the League in Defensive Rating in the Play-offs like 5-6 times.

When healthy D-Rob was capable of being Better than Duncan but he wasn`t clutch he was too soft

[BlueandGold]

Some could argue that Duncan became such a force so fast because of Robinson's tutelage. Hell Robinson has done two things that only a very select handful of NBA players have ever done: registered 70 points in a game and also registering a quadruple-double (only one of two officially recorded quad-dubs)

[Odinn]

That and the fact that he was down to 20/10, 41 FG% in the first round loss makes his '94 season less impressive to me.



And again, it was 27.7 ppg, 13.7 rpg 59.3 FG%, 63 TS% vs the run and gun Nuggets

And 22.9 ppg, 11.3 rpg on 50.4 FG%/55.8 TS% vs Portland.

The Denver numbers make his numbers for the run look better, and the Portland numbers aren't bad, but how many times has Duncan put up better numbers than 23/11 on 50% in a series?
I have the numbers of Duncan's every playoff series;

1999;
27/14/2/2 on 54% against the Knicks.
29/11/3/2 on 51% against the Lakers.

2001;
27/14/4/2 on 51% against the Mavs.
22/13/4/2 on 47% against the Wolves.
23/12/4/4 on 48% against the Lakers.

2002;
26/11/6/6 on 50% against the Sonics.
29/17/5/3 on 43% against the Lakers. (I know his fg% sucked but worth to be mentioned)

2003;
28/17/6/3 on 57% against the Mavs.
24/17/5/5 on 50% against the Nets.
28/12/5/1 on 53% against the Lakers.
19/16/5/4 on 53% against the Suns.

2004;
24/10/3/3 on 59% against the Grizzlies.

2005;
27/14/3/2 on 53% against the Suns.
(Actually Duncan wasn't efficient in 2005 playoffs in general)

2006;
32/12/4/3 on 57% against the Mavs.
18/9/3/1 on 61% against the Kings.

2007;
27/14/1/4 on 57% against the Suns.
22/10/3/3 on 58% against the Jazz.

2008;
25/14/3/2 on 50% against the Suns.

2010;
20/11/3/3 on 55% against the Suns.

---

In this list, I wrote 19 playoff series(maybe 3 or 4 them can be argued for being in the list) and a complete title-run.

[Doctor Rivers]

The same amount Shaq is better than Kobe

[Big#50]

Tim is a top 3 playoff performer. DROB wished for someone else to take over in the playoffs.

[HurricaneKid]

Tim is a top 3 playoff performer. DROB wished for someone else to take over in the playoffs.

Yeah this isn't close guys. I was a big Admiral fan but the cold efficiency and anchor of an era's worth of great team defenses shows that the dull swimmer takes this one in spades.

[Shepseskaf]

My lasting memory of DRob was during the '95WC Finals when he was getting destroyed by Hakeem. Avery Johnson was the undisputed leader of that Spurs team, and during a timeout (I think in Game 2) he was telling the rest of the squad, "We can't count on David right now."

Robinson was sitting right behind Johnson on the edge of the scorers table, and said nothing. He had a totally defeated look on his face. I never forgot the scene.

Here you have a first-ballot HoF-caliber talent, and the Man on his team is a journeyman point guard. That tells you all you need to know about the lack of DRob's competitive fire.

He was definitely a freak of nature physically, but when the going got tough his team couldn't count on him -- and it was said right in front of his face, and got no response.

[Big#50]

My lasting memory of DRob was during the '95WC Finals when he was getting destroyed by Hakeem. Avery Johnson was the undisputed leader of that Spurs team, and during a timeout (I think in Game 2) he was telling the rest of the squad, "We can't count on David right now."

Robinson was sitting right behind Johnson on the edge of the scorers table, and said nothing. He had a totally defeated look on his face. I never forgot the scene.

Here you have a first-ballot HoF-caliber talent, and the Man on his team is a journeyman point guard. That tells you all you need to know about the lack of DRob's competitive fire.

He was definitely a freak of nature physically, but when the going got tough his team couldn't count on him -- and it was said right in front of his face, and got no response.
David Robinson was talking with God about the evil Hakeem Beast. Leave the man alone.

[Shepseskaf]

David Robinson was talking with God about the evil Hakeem Beast. Leave the man alone.
LOL. Agreed.