Should Heat keep Mike Miller? Will he ever be pretty good again?

[insidehoops]

A report says the Heat may plan to say goodbye to Mike Miller, who was good years ago but can't really be counted on anymore.

Skim-read this: http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=8631

What do you think of his role on the Heat, and his game in general these days?

[Kurosawa0]

No need to make a decision right now. Give him one more season and if he still gets hurt/can't play then they can use the amnesty on him in the summer.

[The Iron Fist]

They need to sign him to a long term deal.

[Heat]Just wait til Miller and Haslem get back, its title time![/morons]

[coin24]

I know he injured his thumb/s, but when he came back he was just shit.
The heat really need some size and better defenders imo.

Hopefully he's fully recovered and ready to go this season.

[D-Wade316]

The Heat management should keep Miller. He was injured throughout the season. It's sad that we never saw how we would fit in the offense. He can score, defend, and rebound. They would have a hard time finding someone who can replace Miller.

[HurricaneKid]

A report says the Heat may plan to say goodbye to Mike Miller, who was good years ago but can't really be counted on anymore.

Skim-read this: http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=8631

What do you think of his role on the Heat, and his game in general these days?

I'm rather amazed at this. At the end when he was 70% he was a major factor. If his thumb and shoulder are healed he will be a major part of this years run. Of course, if he isn't the team has a lot invested in him and need some production out of one of their few non min guys.

[Bigsmoke]

give him one more year.

that white boy got range and can rebound and pass pretty well.

[IGOTGAME]

I'm rather amazed at this. At the end when he was 70% he was a major factor. If his thumb and shoulder are healed he will be a major part of this years run. Of course, if he isn't the team has a lot invested in him and need some production out of one of their few non min guys.

I am surprised by this as well. But I guess a lot of his skills are redundant on that team. Personally, I would love a player like Mike Miller on my squad. He can come on the Lakeshow and start at sf.

[pegasus]

He is a very good all-around player, but Lebron and Wade turned him into a spot up shooter. He will continue to under perform as long as those two ball hogs are running Miami's offense. Bosh is another victim.

Name me one player that elevated his game playing alongside either one of those players?

[All Net]

They wont, least not yet

Think we will see how good he can be in Miami when heathly

[HurricaneKid]

Name me one player that elevated his game playing alongside either one of those players?

This might win the "stupidest things ever said on ISH" threads. Varajao and Mo Williams parlayed their time with LeBron into 60M deals and all-star appearances.

[Blue&Orange]

A report says the Heat may plan to say goodbye to Mike Miller, who was good years ago but can't really be counted on anymore.

Skim-read this: http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=8631

What do you think of his role on the Heat, and his game in general these days?
love it, players that taken paycuts to play with the Prima donnas being ditched. :applause:

[Shepseskaf]

Heat should keep him. He was rebounding like a beast in the playoffs, and if he could have hit more open shots -- which he's certainly capable of -- the championship might have turned out differently.

[pegasus]

This might win the "stupidest things ever said on ISH" threads. Varajao and Mo Williams parlayed their time with LeBron into 60M deals and all-star appearances.

Varejao got that contract because of his energy and hustle play, especially on the defensive end and on the boards, not because Lebron turned him into a 18/10 player or something.:lol In fact, all of his numbers went up after Lebron left. He had less than 1 more shot per game, and averaged 0.5 more points, but also 2 more rebounds per game. That's what happens when you don't have a stat-padder on your team snatching rebounds out of your hands. And he would had better numbers had he not gotten injured.

Mo had already averaged 17.3 and 17.2 in his last two years in Milwaukee. He averaged 17.8 (wow, what an increase!!) in his first year in Cleveland, then went down to 15.8 in his second year. Yeah, Lebron really helped him become a better player.:facepalm

[pegasus]

You're stupidity amazes me more every day. Mike Miller IS a spot-up shooter, he wasn't "turned into one". :facepalm Mo Williams was shit before LBJ, and is shit w/o him. There's one player.

You are a horrible poster.

Mo had already averaged 17.3 and 17.2 in his last two years in Milwaukee. He averaged 17.8 (wow, what an increase!!) in his first year in Cleveland, then went down to 15.8 in his second year. Yeah, Lebron really helped him become a better player.

[airchibundo507]

You're stupidity amazes me more every day. Mike Miller IS a spot-up shooter, he wasn't "turned into one". :facepalm Mo Williams was shit before LBJ, and is shit w/o him. There's one player.

Miller is an all-around player. He can dish, handle the ball, shoot lights out, rebound, etc. Whatever is needed. Thus said, of course his role is reduced to spot-up shooter when playing alongside three first-option players.

[pegasus]

Yep, scoring is the only part of being a good player. Typical Kobe stan response. LOL @ You calling LeBron a "statpadder" when you're a Kobe stan. Oh, the irony. :roll:

He averaged 17.3/6.1/4.8/1.3 (steals) and 17.2/6.3/3.5/1.2 in his last two years before he joined Cleveland. He was a young, up and coming player, whose development was cut short thanks to Lebron's ball hogging.

I'm not surprised he looked pretty good playing next to Griffin and Gordon in the second half of the last season.

[Kurosawa0]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/10158/why-heat-are-likely-to-part-with-mike-miller

Looks like Miami actually will have to cut Miller. With the new rules, Miller's overpaid for what he brings to the table.

[pegasus]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/10158/why-heat-are-likely-to-part-with-mike-miller

Looks like Miami actually will have to cut Miller. With the new rules, Miller's overpaid for what he brings to the table.

Again, it's not his fault. He was injured and then reduced to a spot-up shooter. He still managed to help them out a lot with his rebounding deep in the playoffs (his shooting got better, too).

He will be a huge gain to whichever team he ends up with.

[HurricaneKid]

Varejao got that contract because of his energy and hustle play, especially on the defensive end and on the boards, not because Lebron turned him into a 18/10 player or something.:lol In fact, all of his numbers went up after Lebron left. He had less than 1 more shot per game, and averaged 0.5 more points, but also 2 more rebounds per game. That's what happens when you don't have a stat-padder on your team snatching rebounds out of your hands. And he would had better numbers had he not gotten injured.

Mo had already averaged 17.3 and 17.2 in his last two years in Milwaukee. He averaged 17.8 (wow, what an increase!!) in his first year in Cleveland, then went down to 15.8 in his second year. Yeah, Lebron really helped him become a better player.:facepalm

I see the problem. You are an idiot. You think scoring=quality of player.

I'm a Bucks fan. The Bucks basically traded him for Luke Ridnour to get rid of him. With LeBron he made the all-star team. He is a borderline NBA player and made the all-star team. And no one ever accused AV of being worth 10M/season after LBJ left.

[Kurosawa0]

Again, it's not his fault. He was injured and then reduced to a spot-up shooter. He still managed to help them out a lot with his rebounding deep in the playoffs (his shooting got better, too).

He will be a huge gain to whichever team he ends up with.

No, I don't mean it's his fault. Just with how his contract ends up handcuffing Miami under the new rules Miller isn't worth it to them. By cutting Miller Miami could add several pieces. As nice as Miller might be, Grant Hill would probably be just as fine and cheaper.

[32Dayz]

Hey Peggersaurus.

Lebron + Wade = Finalz.

Kobe = Sweep Sweep by Mavs.

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm217/Allume-Le-Cirque/Sig/Kobe-U-Mad.jpg

This year will probably produce similar results I hope you enjoy it.

[pegasus]

I see the problem. You are an idiot. You think scoring=quality of player.

I'm a Bucks fan. The Bucks basically traded him for Luke Ridnour to get rid of him. With LeBron he made the all-star team. He is a borderline NBA player and made the all-star team. And no one ever accused AV of being worth 10M/season after LBJ left.

Quoting myself:

He averaged 17.3/6.1/4.8/1.3 (steals) and 17.2/6.3/3.5/1.2 in his last two years before he joined Cleveland. He was a young, up and coming player, whose development was cut short thanks to Lebron's ball hogging.

So he does/did more than just scoring.

And about AB being accused of being worthy of 10M/season... What the hell is that?:lol Do you ever get accused of being an idiot?

[pegasus]

Hey Peggersaurus.

Lebron + Wade = Finalz.

Kobe = Sweep Sweep by Mavs.

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm217/Allume-Le-Cirque/Sig/Kobe-U-Mad.jpg

This year will probably produce similar results I hope you enjoy it.

They are not going to make the finals this year. People don't realize that it was their best chance to win a chip after everything went down the way it did (Wade's practically breaking Rondo's arm, Rose's inexperience showing and not having a real SG, playing against one of the weakest final teams in recent history, etc.)

This season, Chicago, assuming they sign a good SG, will be right there to tackle the Heat. And New York, and Boston...

Lakers will be better. I'm not sure if it's going to be enough to win it all, but it's possible.

Done responding to a troll who HAD to create a new account after the Heat-less went down in flames.:lol

[Kurosawa0]

They are not going to make the finals this year. People don't realize that it was their best chance to win a chip after everything went down the way it did (Wade's practically breaking Rondo's arm, Rose's inexperience showing and not having a real SG, playing against one of the weakest final teams in recent history, etc.)

This season, Chicago, assuming they sign a good SG, will be right there to tackle the Heat. And New York, and Boston...

Some wishful thinking there, man. Sorry...

[BarberSchool]

They need to sign him to a long term deal.

[Heat]Just wait til Miller and Haslem get back, its title time![/morons]Haha. :banana: :cheers:

[pegasus]

Some wishful thinking there, man. Sorry...

I'm sure you were one of those idiots who were guaranteeing that Miami was going to win the chip last year once they've got Dallas in the finals.:lol

Every year, "It's definitely next year!" with Lebron, and I'm loving it!:roll:

[blablabla]

You're stupidity amazes me more every day. Mike Miller IS a spot-up shooter, he wasn't "turned into one". :facepalm Mo Williams was shit before LBJ, and is shit w/o him. There's one player.
no he wasn't he was a good versatile role player could pass create his own shot
mo wasn't better with lebron he just got more attention while playing for a contender
so just stfu you fvcking homer

[32Dayz]

no he wasn't he was a good versatile role player could pass create his own shot
mo wasn't better with lebron he just got more attention while playing for a contender
so just stfu you fvcking homer

Not really.. I watched Miller in Memphis and although he was a good passer and had some "driving ability" he was pretty much a spot up shooter.

That is his game and although he may have some skills a pure SUS wouldn't they aren't really defined or polished enough to be useful in high pressure playoff games.

[blablabla]

Not really.. I watched Miller in Memphis and although he was a good passer and had some "driving ability" he was pretty much a spot up shooter.

That is his game and although he may have some skills a pure SUS wouldn't they aren't really defined or polished enough to be useful in high pressure playoff games.
for me kyle korver is a spot up shooter or roger mason
miller was/is clearly on an other level offensively

[Legends66NBA7]

When LeBron finally wins a ring, Pegasus's reaction is going to be absolutely priceless. I predict he'll try to make excuses especially if LBJ wins this year..."b-b-b-b-b-b-but it was a shortened season!!!!! It doesn't count! HURR DURR LEBRICK STILL AIN'T GOT NONE OF DEM RANGZZZ!!""

Or that Wade is the leader. It's Wade's team. So, LeBron loses some points for that ring he will get. Wade will get all the credit.

LeBron can't win, even if he does win.

[Kurosawa0]

I'm sure you were one of those idiots who were guaranteeing that Miami was going to win the chip last year once they've got Dallas in the finals.:lol

Every year, "It's definitely next year!" with Lebron, and I'm loving it!:roll:

I appreciate you confirming my point.

[HurricaneKid]

No, I don't mean it's his fault. Just with how his contract ends up handcuffing Miami under the new rules Miller isn't worth it to them. By cutting Miller Miami could add several pieces. As nice as Miller might be, Grant Hill would probably be just as fine and cheaper.

Someone explain the new rules to me. If he gets amnestied they don't get his money back under the cap because they are over the cap. I don't understand what benefit they would receive for cutting him loose except possible a TINY amount of luxury tax. Unless they are talking about trading him.

Given his injuries, his baby daughter's health scare (she is fine now thanks) I think it would be crazy to let him go now at the lowest value he has had in years.

[Legends66NBA7]

Heat win="He had Wade and Bosh. Wade is the leader. LBJ is the sidekick"
Heat lose="It's completely LeBron's fault. 100%"
LeBron scores 50 points="LOL ballhog"
LeBron has a triple double="Lol statpadder"
LeBron has 20 assists="LOL scared to shoot"
LeBron wins FMVP="LOL everyone gets lucky"
LeBron dominates in 4th quarter for first rounds, sucks in last round="LOL LeBron only has 3 quarters, don't ask him for change for a dollar! LOL ya see what I did there? Isn't that SOOOOOOOOOO Original? It's not like we haven't heard that joke a zillion times before, right?"

Pretty much.

Every team in the league would want this is guy on their team, regardless who the "leader" is. Whoever denies that or brings up exactly what you said is lying to themseleves.

The Heat come 2 wins aways from winning a title, yet he will never win? Right...

[Kurosawa0]

Someone explain the new rules to me. If he gets amnestied they don't get his money back under the cap because they are over the cap. I don't understand what benefit they would receive for cutting him loose except possible a TINY amount of luxury tax. Unless they are talking about trading him.

Given his injuries, his baby daughter's health scare (she is fine now thanks) I think it would be crazy to let him go now at the lowest value he has had in years.

Just read this:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/10158/why-heat-are-likely-to-part-with-mike-miller

[Rowe]

Heat win="He had Wade and Bosh. Wade is the leader. LBJ is the sidekick"
Heat lose="It's completely LeBron's fault. 100%"
LeBron scores 50 points="LOL ballhog"
LeBron has a triple double="Lol statpadder"
LeBron has 20 assists="LOL scared to shoot"
LeBron wins FMVP="LOL everyone gets lucky"
LeBron dominates in 4th quarter for first rounds, sucks in last round="LOL LeBron only has 3 quarters, don't ask him for change for a dollar! LOL ya see what I did there? Isn't that SOOOOOOOOOO Original? It's not like we haven't heard that joke a zillion times before, right?"

Repped.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[pegasus]

Heat win="He had Wade and Bosh. Wade is the leader. LBJ is the sidekick"
Heat lose="It's completely LeBron's fault. 100%"
LeBron scores 50 points="LOL ballhog"
LeBron has a triple double="Lol statpadder"
LeBron has 20 assists="LOL scared to shoot"
LeBron wins FMVP="LOL everyone gets lucky"
LeBron dominates in 4th quarter for first rounds, sucks in last round="LOL LeBron only has 3 quarters, don't ask him for change for a dollar! LOL ya see what I did there? Isn't that SOOOOOOOOOO Original? It's not like we haven't heard that joke a zillion times before, right?"

I just realized that you created your account in July of 2011. Seems like all of those jokes you listed above DID bother you.:lol

If Lebron ever wins a ring, I swear I won't be a bitch like you, and will continue to post as pegasus.

[pegasus]

No you won't, because your whole persona on here is hating on LBJ. If he wins a ring, you'll just look like an even bigger dumbass.

"Not everybody gets corrupted. Have a little faith in people."

--Manhattan

[HurricaneKid]

Just read this:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/10158/why-heat-are-likely-to-part-with-mike-miller

I appreciate the link. I don't think he knows exactly what he is talking about though since he says the Bulls would go after Mike Miller and that they might get Nene. Yeah right. It sounds like the CBA changed A LOT. After reading the article, I think its a worse idea now. It would only open up ~2M in salary and allow Mia to offer Dalembert 5M rather than 3M. I say if Dalembert wants to play for Mia let him play for 3M. Paying Miller 29M to save 2M this year is crazy to me. Dalembert has 50 family members that live in the area. If he wants to come and win a title let him win it for 3M. Then they can sign anyone they want for the minimum so if GHill or TMac are game to play limited minutes great.

I actually REALLY like Norris Cole and think he might be their starting PG (over Chalmers) by midseason.

That would make the rotation:

Chalmers/Cole
Wade
LeBron
Bosh
Miller
Haslem
Dalembert
TMac/GHill
Anthony

That would be really nasty.

[BarberSchool]

This season, Chicago, assuming they sign a good SG, will be right there to tackle the Heat. And New York, and Boston...

Lakers will be better. I'm not sure if it's going to be enough to win it all, but it's possible.New York ain't gonna be a serious contender. Boston is a significant step below Chicago and the Heat.

Chicago still lacks offensive cohesion. Rose needs to become more proficient in the pic kand roll for Boozer to be effective, and Deng's 3-point shooting needs to improve to spread the floor for Rose. And we all know Noah needs to make big strides offensively, and that we need a new SG. Taj is a good boost off the bench, I'd like to grab another versatile floor-spreading forward like Dorell Wright. Or a 2-guard that shoots a very high % from the arc like Arron Aflalo. Or both (if Rheinsdorf wasn't so cheap & greedy). Rose worked superhard to improve his shot last off season, but running the pick and roll isn't as easy a skill to master.

So by default, despite Mike Miller likely having another bad year, barring injury, the Heat will advance and face either Dallas or a reworked Lakers team playing better Defense. But my money would be on a Dallas-Miami rematch. It'd be extremely intense and a great storyline.

[Bigsmoke]

Varejao got that contract because of his energy and hustle play, especially on the defensive end and on the boards, not because Lebron turned him into a 18/10 player or something.:lol In fact, all of his numbers went up after Lebron left. He had less than 1 more shot per game, and averaged 0.5 more points, but also 2 more rebounds per game. That's what happens when you don't have a stat-padder on your team snatching rebounds out of your hands. And he would had better numbers had he not gotten injured.

Mo had already averaged 17.3 and 17.2 in his last two years in Milwaukee. He averaged 17.8 (wow, what an increase!!) in his first year in Cleveland, then went down to 15.8 in his second year. Yeah, Lebron really helped him become a better player.:facepalm

lol and their teams sucked.

Mo is currently a 4th option on a team that won 32 games. ****ing awesome

[pegasus]

lol and their teams sucked.

Mo is currently a 4th option on a team that won 32 games. ****ing awesome

Third option behind Griffin and Gordon. Clippers plays in the stacked Western Conference. Will do much better this year (playoff potential).

Anything else?

[Harrison_Barnes]

They should keep him, and give him a chance to show what he can do while he is fully healthy.

[Bigsmoke]

Third option behind Griffin and Gordon. Clippers plays in the stacked Western Conference. Will do much better this year (playoff potential).

Anything else?

thats only because Kaman was hurt.

still would pick Kaman over Mo Williams without hesitation.

lets face it. Mo Williams and Varejao without Lebron are basically Group Home without DJ Premier

[Kurosawa0]

thats only because Kaman was hurt.

still would pick Kaman over Mo Williams without hesitation.

lets face it. Mo Williams and Varejao without Lebron are basically Group Home without DJ Premier

Well, they're decent role players. The problem for Cleveland was that they had to be the 2nd and 3rd best players.

Varejao would be great for just about any contender though. Miami might have won it all with him last year.

[All Net]

Well, they're decent role players. The problem for Cleveland was that they had to be the 2nd and 3rd best players.

Varejao would be great for just about any contender though. Miami might have won it all with him last year.
I think you could argue they would of won it all with any decent 5 man to be honest.

Which is why Riley wants that center this summer.

[HurricaneKid]

\
Chalmers will be solid IMO. I think he grew a lot during the playoffs. Where's Bosh BTW?

I started off with a starting 5 and the guys they would have coming off the bench. So I was cutting and pasting and must have missed it.

Its not that I don't think he will make the rotation...

[Bigsmoke]

Well, they're decent role players. The problem for Cleveland was that they had to be the 2nd and 3rd best players.

Varejao would be great for just about any contender though. Miami might have won it all with him last year.

they both sucked in the playoffs.

Mo Williams and Varejoa could win a title while playing heavy minutes by playing next to Dwight in Orlando or Dirk in Dallas and thats basically it.

[G-train]

They need to sign him to a long term deal.

[Heat]Just wait til Miller and Haslem get back, its title time![/morons]

Yet the Heat played much better when they were healthier.

Meanwhile Lakers fans all season 'just wait til we turn up a gear in the playoffs!'

GTFO

[HurricaneKid]

I appreciate the link. I don't think he knows exactly what he is talking about though since he says the Bulls would go after Mike Miller and that they might get Nene. Yeah right. It sounds like the CBA changed A LOT. After reading the article, I think its a worse idea now. It would only open up ~2M in salary and allow Mia to offer Dalembert 5M rather than 3M. I say if Dalembert wants to play for Mia let him play for 3M. Paying Miller 29M to save 2M this year is crazy to me. Dalembert has 50 family members that live in the area. If he wants to come and win a title let him win it for 3M. Then they can sign anyone they want for the minimum so if GHill or TMac are game to play limited minutes great.

I actually REALLY like Norris Cole and think he might be their starting PG (over Chalmers) by midseason.

That would make the rotation:

Chalmers/Cole
Wade
LeBron
Bosh
Miller
Haslem
Dalembert
TMac/GHill
Anthony

That would be really nasty.


Doesn't look like they are going to do it. It wouldn't make sense at all:

[I]If they were so inclined, they could use the new amnesty clause to part with someone like Miller and get his $5.4 million off the cap books for this coming season, but those familiar with Miami

[Andrei89]

Varejao got that contract because of his energy and hustle play, especially on the defensive end and on the boards, not because Lebron turned him into a 18/10 player or something.:lol In fact, all of his numbers went up after Lebron left. He had less than 1 more shot per game, and averaged 0.5 more points, but also 2 more rebounds per game. That's what happens when you don't have a stat-padder on your team snatching rebounds out of your hands. And he would had better numbers had he not gotten injured.

Mo had already averaged 17.3 and 17.2 in his last two years in Milwaukee. He averaged 17.8 (wow, what an increase!!) in his first year in Cleveland, then went down to 15.8 in his second year. Yeah, Lebron really helped him become a better player.:facepalm

you still don't realise it is Kobe who is known for not passing the ball not Lebron or Wade

idiot troll:facepalm :lol :lol

[NumberSix]

Mike is as good as he's been. He just can't stay healthy. He gets banged up every 3rd practice.

[hawkfan]

Miller to Nets for trade exception and cap space.
Or to the Hawks for a trade exception (from Josh Childress trade).

Heat then do a sign and trade for Dalembert.

[Meticode]

You're stupidity amazes me more every day. Mike Miller IS a spot-up shooter, he wasn't "turned into one". :facepalm Mo Williams was shit before LBJ, and is shit w/o him. There's one player.
Actually before he got to Cleveland he was putting the same or slightly better stats in Milwaukee for two years.

After LeBron left he sucked in Cleveland, then when he went to the Clippers his play picked up because he wasn't so depressed.

[G-train]

Dumblebert sucks, Miller is good when healthy. If he is healthy he will stay. Unless they need to buy him out to sign a centre with low post skills. Who doesnt exist at Miami price.
So I imagine team will be the same with Cole taking Bibby's minutes.
66 games isnt much time to fiddle with team too much.

[Jasper]

obviously with the configured agreement , it's in the best interest to keep him.
But I've got something to say about Miller ...
Time after time he camped out at the two or three ,and wasn't moving at all.
When I saw that last season , it very much looked like a player NOT comfortable playing with the big three.

Coach S. has to start getting him rotating more on 'off ball rotations' so that it confuses the defense , and opens up more shot selections for Wade and Lebron , as well as Miller sliding off defenders.

If you don't follow - think of Miller acting more like a decoy , and creating offense for his teammates as well as him self.

I still think on the defensive side his is average at best , and Coach S. needs to find the correct mix for him.
Under rated rebounder , which pretty much shows he plays more like a stretch 3 than a 2.
--------------
Any trade partner with the Heat - Heat will always be on the short end of any deal now.


66 games isnt much time to fiddle with team too much.'

Think of the typical trade deadline .... of all teams (Heat are veteran enough - to fiddle with 15-25 minute men)

[G-train]

Think of the typical trade deadline .... of all teams (Heat are veteran enough - to fiddle with 15-25 minute men)

Given chemistry issues already last year to bring in another starter or 2 it wouldnt be favourable.

[Jasper]

Given chemistry issues already last year to bring in another starter or 2 it wouldnt be favourable.
They are projected to bring in Dalem'bert. (he would I suspect start over Anthony)

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Or that Wade is the leader. It's Wade's team. So, LeBron loses some points for that ring he will get. Wade will get all the credit.

LeBron can't win, even if he does win.

Sad but true. That's the unfair criticism you take when playing alongside another elite who is at worst equal to you.

[The Iron Fist]

Pretty much.

Every team in the league would want this is guy on their team, regardless who the "leader" is. Whoever denies that or brings up exactly what you said is lying to themseleves.

The Heat come 2 wins aways from winning a title, yet he will never win? Right...
hi im. I'm Charles barkley and I came within two wins from winning a title.

Hi, we're john Stockton and Karl Malone and we also came within two wins for a title.

[longtime lurker]

Dumblebert sucks, Miller is good when healthy. If he is healthy he will stay. Unless they need to buy him out to sign a centre with low post skills. Who doesnt exist at Miami price.
So I imagine team will be the same with Cole taking Bibby's minutes.
66 games isnt much time to fiddle with team too much.

Dalembert is overrated I agree. People acting like he's the answer to the Heat's problems, but I've heard nothing but complaints about him from the fans of whatever team he goes to. Plus he's probably going to hit a sharp decline. The Heat should focus on young athletic big men with room to improve.

[Jasper]

Dalembert is overrated I agree. People acting like he's the answer to the Heat's problems, but I've heard nothing but complaints about him from the fans of whatever team he goes to. Plus he's probably going to hit a sharp decline. The Heat should focus on young athletic big men with room to improve.
6'ers for example ..
he isn't the answer to Heats long term 5 issues .. he will be a 20-25 minute guy to help Anthony and Udonis until their rook can play 20+ minutes a game.

[G-train]

They are projected to bring in Dalem'bert. (he would I suspect start over Anthony)

Anthony is superior to Dumbles. Anthony plays great D, hustles like rodman and plays within his own ability. Anthony would start.

[PJR]

Anthony is superior to Dumbles. Anthony plays great D, hustles like rodman and plays within his own ability. Anthony would start.

You sound ridiculous.

[MiseryCityTexas]

The Heat management should keep Miller. He was injured throughout the season. It's sad that we never saw how we would fit in the offense. He can score, defend, and rebound. They would have a hard time finding someone who can replace Miller.

If I was Pat Riley, I would get rid of Miller after his contract is up, and sign free agent Chuck Hayes if he chooses to leave Houston to improve Miami's post defense.

Chuck Hayes >> Mike Miller.

[BarberSchool]

It's not like they're getting Dalembert to increase TV numbers in the plethora of Haitian households in Miami/Dade.....maybe they just really think he's the best option. They can't afford Chandler or other better centers, can they ?

[G-train]

You sound ridiculous.

To the average dumbass maybe. I know good winning bball and just crap bball that looks ok on bad teams.

Anthony is always near the top of Miami's player rating system, that is an extremely detailed system.

[pegasus]

You're stupidity amazes me more every day. Mike Miller IS a spot-up shooter, he wasn't "turned into one". :facepalm Mo Williams was shit before LBJ, and is shit w/o him. There's one player.

What about you'rs?:lol

And how dare you say no one is equal to him, when he choked the way he did in the finals? When you buy a car, do you only care about how flashy and fast it is, or do you also care whether or not it can take you to your final destination?

[pegasus]

Anthony is superior to Dumbles. Anthony plays great D, hustles like rodman and plays within his own ability. Anthony would start.

He played great for them last season, but it went unnoticed. I hope Miami signs Dalembert, and he takes minutes away from Anthony, because that's gonna make them worse.

[pegasus]

When all else fails, point out typos in the other person's sentences. That'll learn 'em. "How dare I?" :roll: Are you insulted? Calm down.
I'm not insulted, but your English teacher is.:oldlol:

[The Iron Fist]

No one in the NBA is equal to LeBron. :facepalm


Thats true.

Everyone gives a full effort for the entire game in the most important games of the season, the NBA finals.

[Simple Jack]

LOL @ Pegasus accusing LeBron of holding back players that were 2nd options on non-playoff teams and who went on to record a historic losing streak without him.

[All Net]

Anthony is superior to Dumbles. Anthony plays great D, hustles like rodman and plays within his own ability. Anthony would start.

Dalembert does everything better in pretty much every area apart from man to man but even thats close. Dalembert can have 15 and 15 type games. Anthony can not get close to that....but as a C duo they will be a good combo.

[2swift4u]

Mike is as good as he's been. He just can't stay healthy. He gets banged up every 3rd practice.


I think you have a point there. He seems to be the kind of player who hustles hard all the time and therefore gets banged up very often. But I kinda like him for that.. Miami needs players like that.

Miami needs to get a decent center and then they should be fine with or without Miller.

And about Lebron making other players worse: I don't remember how many times he dished Anthony, Ilgauskas or Dampier beautiful assists but they weren't able to make easy baskets!! So I'd say any center that can actually catch a ball and dunk it will be very happy to have Lebron in his team.

[kentatm]

Dampier can catch and dunk so long as you give him the pass above his waist.

Anything lower and he will fumble it away.

[2swift4u]

Dampier can catch and dunk so long as you give him the pass above his waist.

Anything lower and he will fumble it away.

True, in fact he was the only one of the 3 centers who did that successfully every once in a while. But even Dampier missed some easy baskets, since he's not quick/explosiv enough anymore...
Anthony on the other hand is a great athlete but he's got terrible hands. And Ilgauskas doesn't even bother to get anywhere near the rim.

[Lebron23]

Heat needs some size when they play againts taller teams in the playoffs. Anthony should come off the bench. Dalembert is a better offensive player, better rebounder, and better shot blocker than the 6'7" Joel
Anthony.

[Sampsonsimpson]

I think they should keep him. He was a battling nagging injuries last year, pretty sure he had some family issues as well. When he is healthy he is as good of a player coming off the bench as you could get. He can get his own shot, he can create for teammates, and he's a great 3 shooter. Even just the year before this one when he was in Washington he put up 11/6/4 on 50/48/82.

[PJR]

It makes sense financially to jettisoned him via the amnesty. I'd imagine they try to trade him first though(to a team with capspace).

[pegasus]

LOL @ Pegasus accusing LeBron of holding back players that were 2nd options on non-playoff teams and who went on to record a historic losing streak without him.

How many times does this need to be explained to you Lebonbons?

Due to some of their other key players leaving, and some of them being injured for the majority of the season, their entire roster changed last year. It wasn't like just Lebron left and they kept the same team. If you think Lebron's impact is that great, then how come Miami failed to meet the expectations even just in the regular season (I won't even mention the finals), despite adding Lebron AND Bosh?

Plus, that historic losing streak team was still enough to beat your almighty Heat in their last match up of the season. Even they were enough to scare Lebron and make him play hot-potato in the fourth quarter. :lol

[MeLO MvP 15]

It would be a dumb move IMO. Miller was still a good role player despite being injured and the whole thing with his newborn, he's probably healthy now and the only reason to amnesty to him IMO is if you know for sure you can get a guy like Dalembert or Barea. Then again, I'm looking at Miami's salary cap numbers is looks like they have $65 million committed to next season (without a new deal for Chalmers tho) which puts them away from the estimated $72 million luxury tax, so why would they have to waive him? They should still have the MLE with or without Miller.

If he does get amnestied, he'd be so perfect for NY. Great shooter with under-rated playmaking and rebounding ability. There was mutual interest last summer so I could see it working out. Then again, he'd have to go through the whole waiver system that's being talked about where teams with cap room (and less wins?) get to bid first, if that happens, I could see him going to the Clippers.

[Simple Jack]

How many times does this need to be explained to you Lebonbons?

Due to some of their other key players leaving, and some of them being injured for the majority of the season, their entire roster changed last year. It wasn't like just Lebron left and they kept the same team. If you think Lebron's impact is that great, then how come Miami failed to meet the expectations even just in the regular season (I won't even mention the finals), despite adding Lebron AND Bosh?

Plus, that historic losing streak team was still enough to beat your almighty Heat in their last match up of the season. Even they were enough to scare Lebron and make him play hot-potato in the fourth quarter. :lol

Interestingly enough, those same key players; when injured in the previous season, did NOTHING to change the record of the Cavs...they were winning 70% even with Mo/Delonte/Shaq/Z injured. :roll: acting like LeBron's impact is a given number that translates over team to team exactly like it was on the Cavaliers.

The Cavaliers beat the Lakers as well...your point?

[pegasus]

Interestingly enough, those same key players; when injured in the previous season, did NOTHING to change the record of the Cavs...they were winning 70% even with Mo/Delonte/Shaq/Z injured. :roll: acting like LeBron's impact is a given number that translates over team to team exactly like it was on the Cavaliers.

The Cavaliers beat the Lakers as well...your point?

I didn't know those were all injured at the same time. Or was it just your imagination?

[Simple Jack]

I didn't know those were all injured at the same time. Or was it just your imagination?

So tell me which players exactly are the ones that you are giving the credit to. Nearly all of them missed significant stretches of the season, some together (including Mo and Delonte who they went something like 12-1 without). Could it be that the one player who had the biggest impact out of anyone in the league when he was on the floor; or was it the scrubs who got injured and had no effect on the outcome of the games?

[HurricaneKid]

So for those that didn't read my link the only advantage would be for Miami to get a 5M MLE instead of a 3M MLE.

So they would pay off a 20M contract for a solid role player to get 2M in cap space this year. There is no way this gets done.

[pegasus]

So tell me which players exactly are the ones that you are giving the credit to. Nearly all of them missed significant stretches of the season, some together (including Mo and Delonte who they went something like 12-1 without). Could it be that the one player who had the biggest impact out of anyone in the league when he was on the floor; or was it the scrubs who got injured and had no effect on the outcome of the games?

Of course Lebron had by far the biggest impact, but you can't deny the fact that he had a very good supporting cast in his last two years with Cleveland. The whole team was built around him. Otherwise, how can you explain them having the best record in the league in both years?

If you say it was all Lebron, then how come Miami didn't even come close to surpassing any of those two records with 3 superstars? I know Lebron's game declined last year, but would you say that it was all due to that?

[Simple Jack]

Of course Lebron had by far the biggest impact, but you can't deny the fact that he had a very good supporting cast in his last two years with Cleveland. The whole team was built around him. Otherwise, how can you explain them having the best record in the league in both years?

If you say it was all Lebron, then how come Miami didn't even come close to surpassing any of those two records with 3 superstars? I know Lebron's game declined last year, but would you say that it was all due to that?

Relative to what? The bottom of the playoff barell? Even some of those were better than the Cavaliers. But to suggest, that with his supporting cast, you expected the type of success that team had? To nearly tie the Celtics all-time home-record? I'm not sure anyone could have predicted that.

Here is a great post from KBlaze that I saw in another thread that addresses this issue better than I can.


I think this is a flawed question to begin with because Lebron isnt said to have no help literally...just none in comparison to others doing what they do. Nobody is calling them the same as the 03 Nuggets or anything. But they are on pace to win what? 60-64 games? consider the teams to EVER win at the rate Lebrons team is doing. This is just off the top of my head....


60s Celtics
Late 60s early 70s Knicks
Wilt 76ers and Lakers
The Celtics briefly with Hondo and Cowens
Kareem and Oscar robertsons bucks. Kareem may have done it before Oscar too.

I dont think anyone else did it in the 70s. 80s? Showtime, Birds Celtics, Docs 76ers maybe the Bucks one or two times, Isiahs Pistons towards the end and one of Drexlers teams won 63 I think. 90s you have Jordans Bulls, Barkleys suns, Ewings knicks one or two times. The Jazz. Zos Heat, the Sonics with Payton, Kemp, detlef, and so on and....The Spurs with Drob. I think the Magic hit 60 with Shaq and Penny once. Shaq won 60s one of those years in La. Maybe...98 I think?

2000s its shaqs lakers, Dirk Mavs, KGs Celtics, the 04 Pistons, Duncans Spurs, and the 03 Pacers. Oh and the Kings. Maybe the Blazers in 99 or 2000 too.

That it?

Im gonna assume the average ISH poster known enough of history that I dont need to run down those teams lineups to show how they blow the Cavs out of the water. Entire list...all history of the NBA? The only teams I see with a similar level of talent(defensive or otherwise) after its #1 that the Cavs have to work with after Bron?

Drobs Spurs unless the year they hit 60 was with Rodman, Elliot, and Avery as I think it was. Id take Rodman over anyone on the cavs period...as a defensive talent? Its a blowout.

Duncans 03 Spurs. Manu and Parker were far from stars. They had better defensive players though so if we are falling back on that to make up for offense....they are also more talented than the cavs. Peak Bowen and even an old Drob were bigger defensive talents than Lebron has to work with. Ben Wallace is still a force on his good nights but hes hardly still big Ben. Hes more....Medium Ben. Smedium eve. I watched him for 2 years on the Bulls. Hes not an every night star anymore.

If you want to call Stockton, Hornacek, and company untalented....fine. But you cant defend it. Hornacek in his prime was better than anyone but Bron on the cavs is. HE was an all star the year before he got to the Jazz. He just let a lot go to play his role. Besides...anyone gonna take anyone on the cavs over the best "pure" point of all time backed by Jerry Sloan on the bench?

What else we got? I cant think of any more of those teams even begin to compare talent wise to Lebrons. The worst may well be the 2003 Mavs who had 2MVPs and Finley and Vanexel. Them or Ewings Kniocks...with Starks, Oakley, Smith, Mason and company. Cant talk about defense being a talent and rank these Cavs as equals of those teams.

Lebron has to me easily the worst or among the worst supporting casts offensive or overall to even win the way he is now. some of them dont play the same D as the Cavs but if you tell me you want to build a team with Mo, Z, Anderson, 09 Ben Wallace, west, Wally, and Gibson as your supporting players....and not say....Tim Hardaway, Mashburn, Majerle, Pj Brown, Bowen, and Lenard? Or Shawn Kemp,/Payton whoever you put #2 Detlef, Nate,and those ballhawks?

Then youre a liar. The Cavs arent talented compared to teams that win like them. They arent even that talented compared to teams that dont win.

Will someone tell me how Wade, Marion, Haslem, Beasley and so on are miles less talented than Lebron, Z, West, Andy, and Wally? The Cavs arent that deep either. Take the first 5 players off that team and you could easily have the depthchart equal to the bottom 10 roster spots of most bad teams. They are neither deep nor top heavy Lebron aside. What they are is consistient, hard working, and led by one of the best players to ever step on a basketball court.

But they are not exceptional talents even if we consider defense as a talent. The Bulls have more talented indidivual defensive players than the Cavs for gods sake. Kirk, Deng, Tyrus, Noah, Hunter, and Hughes? as defensive talents they murder the Cavs role players. Just slaughter. And yet....they dont win.

But they would if they had Lebron. And then they would be talented I guess.

Lebrons Cavs are no more talented than the average NBA team. Winning doesnt always mean the team is talented. Just means they play well together. If chemistry is an individual talent? fine. One of the better teams in the league. But it isnt. Its very idea is based on togetherness. Cant be individually talented at chemistry I dont think, And if you could few of those players proved they were elsewhere.

Lebron isnt the entire reason they play well.....but hes enough of it that we dont need to be looking hard and redefining talent to find why they are winning.
With Lebron on that team you could replace anyone they lost by randomly selecting names from a hat and win 52-65 wins depending on who you get. Nobody but him even deserves a mention far as what they lost. They lost Lebron and 100% totally interchangeable parts. Guy took a team as bad as or worse than they have now to the finals when he was a good bit worse than he is now.

Lebron is one of the few people you can honestly say is the difference between worst team in the league...and a contender. He just is. The rest of those guys they lost...were he still there? Nobody would give a damn. Anderson is the only major loss going forward and they are on an 18-20 win pace with him so...not like he was doing anything that mattered.

[Dwyane Rose]

I think they should. I have a feeling he'll hit at least 6 3s against the Spurs on January 17th 2012.

[upside24]

I think they should. I have a feeling he'll hit at least 6 3s against the Spurs on January 17th 2012.
:lol Repped.