"Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All: LeBron James

[WillyJakk]

Some things never change:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3FgksrxzM0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX5NdToDjfk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ-Y6tjiAm0

The "Plaxico" celebration, the dancing on the sidelines when he was in Cleveland, the "Oh my GAWD!!! It actually went in!!!" game winning shot vs Orlando 3 yrs ago, the putting in a request to change his jersey number when he was still in Cleveland, the "Decision", the beating D-Wade in the chest after the 3 when Wade just wanted to pose for a sec and move on, then finally the choking in the NBA Finals.

Real talk, I like the guy, I enjoy watching him play, and think he's supremely talented but he DOES NOT HAVE THE CHARACTERISTICS OF A WINNER.

Period.

He had better hope that Dwyane Wade can carry his ass to the Promised Land cause I truly don't see it happening.

He is not mentally strong or mature enough to match a real man, a real true competitor when all the chips are on the line and it's win it all or you lose.

He cannot get it done.

If the Heat wins it all, it is ALL because of Dwyane Wade who HAS to keep HIS focus on the task at hand and not let LeBron distract him from that.

Just my thoughts on the guy.

http://sportssense.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/miami-heat-forward-lebron-james-gestures-against-the-boston-celtics-during-the-second-quarter-their-nba-basketball-game-boston.jpg

[Doranku]

:applause:

[2swift4u]

why did you even bother to open a new thread about the same old story?? :facepalm

[shootingcomets]

hasnt there been 12398329423 posts about this?

[WillyJakk]

Typical day on ISH. "Hurr durr let's hate on LeBron!"

For real?

I don't hate on any man. He's doin' him being himself.

I'm just describing his personal characteristics my dude, all the real winners in any competitive sport or business have a certain demeanor and he ain't got it.

That's not a diss, it's real.

If you disagree I understand but talkin' that Hurr durr stuff is lame.

And if you disagree, post something to refute it...if you can.

[HurricaneKid]

I've read this post in threads about Magic Johnson. It exists in every thread. Why does it deserve its own thread?!?

You think AT LEAST a top 3 NBA player is a loser. It says far more about you than it does about him.

[Go Getter]

I fell in love with Noah as a player right then and there.

[jlip]

Some things never change:
the "Oh my GAWD!!! It actually went in!!!" game winning shot vs Orlando 3 yrs ago,

Seriously...You actually cited celebrating a game winning buzzerbeater in the playoffs as a reason he doesn't have it in him to win? Okaaaay...

[Lebron23]

At least he finally got his swag back.

[Go Getter]

Seriously...You actually cited celebrating a game winning buzzerbeater in the playoffs as a reason he doesn't have it in him to win? Okaaaay...
I think he's saying that even Bron didn't think it was going in...his reaction was total opposite of Gil's buzzer beater where he just walked away because he knew that shit was $.

[TheMan]

We already know LBJ folds like a cheap lawn chair when you stand up to him, the classic bully mentallity, old news, move on.

[Lebron23]

Seriously...You actually cited celebrating a game winning buzzerbeater in the playoffs as a reason he doesn't have it in him to win? Okaaaay...

That's one of the biggest shot in his Basketball career.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5WUOnTxwPw

Michael Jordan THE SHOT on Ehlo

[Lebron23]

This is not even thread worthy. I thought LeBron rape a girl, or shoot a man on the football field.

[Lebron23]

F*ck the Orlando Magic. If Dwight didn't get traded. I want to see the Heat brutally rapes them in the playoffs. Dwight is going to feel that's it's very difficult to be a one man team.

[stallionaire]

People are already setting up LeBron to fail. He is arguably the best player in the league but he will never be seriously recognized as that if people make rules for him every season. Now, in order for him to REALLY have a ring, he has to outscore and be more efficient than Dwade in the Finals. What a ****ing joke, get out of here with all that nonsense.

[jlip]

I think he's saying that even Bron didn't think it was going in...his reaction was total opposite of Gil's buzzer beater where he just walked away because he knew that shit was $.

This is where the practice of overanalysis takes place, and it so often does with Lebron. Lebron's reaction to that buzzer beater was basically the same as MJs reaction when he hit that shot over Ehlo. He stopped to watch it go in and then celebrated after it did. Unless Lebron said something in a post game interview that I'm unaware of, about not expecting it to go in, any assertion that he was shocked that he made it is completely unfounded. Other than that, his reaction was pretty standard giving the circumstances. Only in the world in which we must scrutinize, dissect, and analyze every move of Lebron's is such a conclusion even possible.

[WillyJakk]

Seriously...You actually cited celebrating a game winning buzzerbeater in the playoffs as a reason he doesn't have it in him to win? Okaaaay...

Yes I did.

It was the CONFERENCE FINALS in which they were favored to beat us (but I had had faith in my squad that we'd beat them cause we just matched up too well w/ them), but anyway it was the conference finals, not the NBA Finals.

It was not for the title, it was to win one game and yeah I know rookie Magic Johnson huged Kareem for like 5 mins like they were lovers when Cap hit that game winning skyhook but really... act like you've been there before.

Act like a winner, act like you're SUPPOSED to hit that shot and send a message to the other team that "y'all ain't got nothin' for us!" instead of "OH MY GOD!!! I can't belive I made it!!! YAY!!!!"

C'mon man.

When you're crowned the next big thing and in line to be the best ever to do it, you gotta exude that sh*t in your demeanor...confidently.

[D-Wade316]

People are already setting up LeBron to fail. He is arguably the best player in the league but he will never be seriously recognized as that if people make rules for him every season. Now, in order for him to REALLY have a ring, he has to outscore and be more efficient than Dwade in the Finals. What a ****ing joke, get out of here with all that nonsense.
This.

If he wins a FMVP, then the haters would jump on the bandwagon.:pimp:

[Go Getter]

This is where the practice of overanalysis takes place, and it so often does with Lebron. Lebron's reaction to that buzzer beater was basically the same as MJs reaction when he hit that shot over Ehlo. He stopped to watch it go in and then celebrated after it did. Unless Lebron said something in a post game interview that I'm unaware of, about not expecting it to go in, any assertion that he was shocked that he made it is completely unfounded. Other than that, his reaction was pretty standard giving the circumstances. Only in the world in which we must scrutinize, dissect, and analyze every move of Lebron's is such a conclusion even possible.
Whatever man. I saw what I saw. MJ watched the shot go in and fist pumped.....Lebron looked kinda shocked to be honest.

If you see differently that's your right but don't say I'm over analyzing...I didn't take long to come up with my opinion.

[WillyJakk]

This is where the practice of overanalysis takes place, and it so often does with Lebron. Lebron's reaction to that buzzer beater was basically the same as MJs reaction when he hit that shot over Ehlo. He stopped to watch it go in and then celebrated after it did. Unless Lebron said something in a post game interview that I'm unaware of, about not expecting it to go in, any assertion that he was shocked that he made it is completely unfounded. Other than that, his reaction was pretty standard giving the circumstances. Only in the world in which we must scrutinize, dissect, and analyze every move of Lebron's is such a conclusion even possible.

Huge HUGE difference.

Jordan's buzzer beater sent Cleveland's ass home (which they already were geographically) and the Bulls WON THE SERIES w/ that shot.

LeBron's game winning J was not for the series, it was for a game.

[stallionaire]

This.

If he wins a FMVP, then the haters would jump on the bandwagon.:pimp:

I'm angry at Bron for not getting it done last season. Can't explain how ****ing pumped I was after I saw him take apart the Eastern Conference during the playoffs. If he can bring that killer instinct to the Finals... :hammerhead:

[D-Wade316]

Same. Still hilarious to hear the excuses people made during the ecsf and ECf.
Well said. Fukk the revisionists.

[Lebron23]

Huge HUGE difference.

Jordan's buzzer beater sent Cleveland's ass home (which they already were geographically) and the Bulls WON THE SERIES w/ that shot.

LeBron's game winning J was not for the series, it was for a game.


Michael Jordan was a cocky son of a B1tch. I remember the referee gave him a technical foul after he did the fingered swag to Mutombo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZLqrdxvCGs

On topic

Team LeBron teams wins the flag football game. I think he had 4 touchdowns againts Team Durant.

[Lebron23]

I'm angry at Bron for not getting it done last season. Can't explain how ****ing pumped I was after I saw him take apart the Eastern Conference during the playoffs. If he can bring that killer instinct to the Finals... :hammerhead:

It looks like he finally get his confidence back.

[I.R.Beast]

hasnt there been 12398329423 posts about this?

i dont mind 1 more thread about the "Chokin One"

[Rab]

Huge HUGE difference.

Jordan's buzzer beater sent Cleveland's ass home (which they already were geographically) and the Bulls WON THE SERIES w/ that shot.

LeBron's game winning J was not for the series, it was for a game.
You're reaching, bro. You can mock LeBron for a lot of different things, some of them you mentioned in your OP, but knocking a guy for hitting a game winner in the playoffs is stretching.

What about Reggie Miller's celebration when he hit the game winner on MJ? Eddie Johnson's reaction to his shot against the Jazz in 97? Is your argument based on LeBron being the talent he is in comparison to Miller, or EJ? Even if, I don't think it holds up. It's an exciting moment, and it was on a big stage. I have no problem with him celebrating the way he did. How about Kobe's reaction to the Game 5 winner against the Suns in '06.

[WillyJakk]

Michael Jordan was a cocky son of a B1tch. I remember the referee gave him a technical foul after he did the fingered swag to Mutombo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZLqrdxvCGs

On topic

Team LeBron teams wins the flag football game. I think he had 4 touchdowns againts Team Durant.

Yeah he was ballin', he's a former HS footballer and he was killin' em (even though it was his friends etc but hey...they got out there on the field so it's a competition from that standpoint).

I'm strictly talking about the celebration which hows me that he has not remotely changed from the person who was dancing on the sidelines in Cleveland.

The person who lost and played miserably in the Finals shoudn't even be seen, he shoulda been in a barn at an undisclosed location w/ a grizzly man beard training until the lockout ended and training camps re-opened.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_NO2jq6lfvpY/TKsPJBt236I/AAAAAAAAAt8/arHtskVn1fI/s1600/Allenamento+in+Russia+02.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SUzcDUERLo

That's things a real competitor and someone who's serious about their craft would have done.

[WillyJakk]

You're reaching, bro. You can mock LeBron for a lot of different things, some of them you mentioned in your OP, but knocking a guy for hitting a game winner in the playoffs is stretching.

What about Reggie Miller's celebration when he hit the game winner on MJ? Eddie Johnson's reaction to his shot against the Jazz in 97? Is your argument based on LeBron being the talent he is in comparison to Miller, or EJ? Even if, I don't think it holds up. It's an exciting moment, and it was on a big stage. I have no problem with him celebrating the way he did. How about Kobe's reaction to the Game 5 winner against the Suns in '06.

I'm reaching :facepalm

I think you're making my case cause EVERYONE you listed hitting game winners weren't winners (sans Kobe) and really... Kobe was cool as ice when he hit that shot, that was teammates goin' hogwild over that shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd5vP5-dJak

That "Woooh! and beating his chest sh*t was him saying "I'm mothaf*ckin' Kobe Bryant dawg! Y'all can't beat us!"

Not "OH MY GAWD!!! I made it!!!"

Try again dude.

[Lebron23]

I actually like LeBron when he's celebrating it means that he's enjoying the game. It's finally nice to see him regain his explosiveness. Last year LeBron was missing some easy layup and dunks. LeBron played in some numbers of Summer League Games, and He's in much better shape compared to last season.

[kenny817]

but but...he's the chooooseeennn ooonnneee dooooooooooeeeeeeeeee

*demetryjames86 voice*

[Mr. Incredible]

The GREAT thing about sports is Perception can always change. LeBron is only 26. He has YEARS left to play. He could easily end up with 5 rings. Let it play out.

[Mr. Incredible]

he 27 u **** niggaHe turns 27 December 30th. NEXT.

[stallionaire]

The GREAT thing about sports is Perception can always change. LeBron is only 26. He has YEARS left to play. He could easily end up with 5 rings. Let it play out.

Exactly. How many rings did Jordan have at 26? Prisoner of the moment syndrome.

[Lebron23]

27 u ****

Your Hero Kobe, Jordan, Shaq and Hakeem didn't win an NBA Finals MVP when they were 27 yrs.old.

[Mr. Incredible]

27 u ****LOL i can't take you serious with your Username. YellowMelo? :facepalm But the real reason I can't take you serious is your lack of intelligence and God awful grammar. :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Mr. Incredible]

ok then ***** niggaGet out your mom's basement cuz. Lulz. Next.

[WillyJakk]

Seriously peeps.

Nothing is promised to anyone.

Again, it is not a given he (as the main proponent) goes to or even WINS an NBA Finals.

I've seen it time and time again, players who seemed to be destined to "win it all" not do it.

And who's to say the Lakers don't right the ship?

Who's to say that "guy in OKC" isn't unknowingly the true "Chosen One" and goes on to reign the League? Him Westbrook etc were far from scared of the Heat.

The Bulls get the right SG or the Knicks get the right piece they are right there, too.

Hell, Dirk might continue to rule the League so I can't sit here and say "He's 27, he's got plenty of time".

I thought the same thing about this guy and our 90's team:

http://www.oddjack.com/wp-content/upLoads/penny_hardaway.jpg

But sh*t happens.

[LBJ 23]

If the Heat wins it all, it is ALL because of Dwyane Wade who HAS to keep HIS focus on the task at hand and not let LeBron distract him from that.






Nice to know that either you can see the future or you're retarded.

If the Heat win it all and the Finals are by chance similar to the last year's Chicago-Miami series, where Lebron significantly outplays Wade, it's still ALL because of Dwyane Wade right?

gg

[Mr. Incredible]

Seriously peeps.

Nothing is promised to anyone.

Again, it is not a given he (as the main proponent) goes to or even WINS an NBA Finals.

I've seen it time and time again, players who seemed to be destined to "win it all" not do it.

And who's to say the Lakers don't right the ship?

Who's to say that "guy in OKC" isn't unknowingly the true "Chosen One" and goes on to reign the League? Him Westbrook etc were far from scared of the Heat.

The Bulls get the right SG or the Knicks get the right piece they are right there, too.

Hell, Dirk might continue to rule the League so I can't sit here and say "He's 27, he's got plenty of time".

I thought the same thing about this guy and our 90's team:

http://www.oddjack.com/wp-content/upLoads/penny_hardaway.jpg

But sh*t happens.And like I said before, perception changes all the time in sports. If the Heat end up winning 3 or 4 titles and LeBron wins a couple of Finals MVP's, the perception of him will change. Not saying entirely but it will.

[Rab]

I'm reaching :facepalm

I think you're making my case cause EVERYONE you listed hitting game winners weren't winners (sans Kobe) and really... Kobe was cool as ice when he hit that shot, that was teammates goin' hogwild over that shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd5vP5-dJak

That "Woooh! and beating his chest sh*t was him saying "I'm mothaf*ckin' Kobe Bryant dawg! Y'all can't beat us!"

Not "OH MY GAWD!!! I made it!!!"

Try again dude.
Uh, watch Eddie Johnson's. Buzzer beater.

Reggie Miller left a few tenths of a second left on the clock, yet still danced around like he won a chip. It was still the game winner.

Kobe's reaction wasn't warranted based on your point about LeBron. Game 5 of the first round of the playoffs <<<< Game 2 of the Eastern Conf Semi's.

Kobe's was cool at first, but the extended chest pounding and WOOOO'ing like he won a series was a bit much.

Stretching.

[WillyJakk]

Nice to know that either you can see the future or you're reatarded.

If the Heat win it all and the Finals are by chance similar to the last year's Chicago-Miami series, where Lebron significantly outplays Wade, it's still ALL because of Dwyane Wade right?

gg

"reatarded"

http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/lol/grand/black-guy-laughing-o.gif

[WillyJakk]

Uh, watch Eddie Johnson's. Buzzer beater.

Reggie Miller left a few tenths of a second left on the clock, yet still danced around like he won a chip. It was still the game winner.

Kobe's reaction wasn't warranted based on your point about LeBron. Game 5 of the first round of the playoffs <<<< Game 2 of the Eastern Conf Semi's.

Kobe's was cool at first, but the extended chest pounding and WOOOO'ing like he won a series was a bit much.

Stretching.

:lol

When I said "winners" I meant they weren't "Winners" as in champions not the actual shot not being a game winner.

[Rab]

:lol

When I said "winners" I meant they weren't "Winners" as in champions not the actual shot not being a game winner.
Well that makes much more sense.:cheers:

[Legends66NBA7]

Time will tell.

[WillyJakk]

Time will tell.

This is true and I think I'm speaking more outta me starting to become a lil' bit upset w/ the guy cause I didn't like how people treated him after he left Cleveland when he was a "Free" agent cause it's his life, let him live it and make his own decisions.

He caught alotta "heat" (pun intended) for that.

I saw the training videos of him working out hard, etc. it's just that his mentality, to me hasn't changed one bit since losing the way he did in the Finals.

And I really want the guy to succeed as a player (as in win a ring), I just don't see it in him to want it.

Sure...he "wants" to win but does he really "WANT" to win.

[DaPerceive]

Everything the OP said is correct so why are people bitching at him? LeBron could easily prove him wrong this upcoming season and in the following seasons after that but as of now the OP is correct.

[WillyJakk]

Because the OP is clearly biased, just like you, Swagg3r.

Nah,

Clearly the OP is an adult who makes his own decisions and stands on his own two regardless of what others like yourself may think.

Could care less about my avy/ etc. I type how I feel and if I had a clear agenda I wouldn't give LeBron props he's earned from me and to be real I wouldn't even rock none of his gear or sneakers (which I do have).

Sounds like an agenda to me :rolleyes:

[Legends66NBA7]

Before 1967, would you say Wilt Chamberlain "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All ?

Before 1971, would you say Oscar Robertson "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All ?

Before 1972, would you say Jerry West "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All (though he played bad in that Finals) ?

Before 1975, would you say Rick Barry "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All ?

Before 1978, would you say Elvin Hayes and Wes Unseld "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All ?

Before 1983, would you say Moses Malone and Julius Erving "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All ?

Before 1989, would you say Isiah Thomas "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All ?

Before 1991, would you say Michael Jordan "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All ?

Before 1994, would you say Hakeem Olajuwon "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All ?

Before 2000, would you say Shaquille O`Neal "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All ?

Before 2009, would you say Kobe Bryant was a coat tail rider and "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All as the man ?

Before 2011, would you say Dirk Nowitzki "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All ?

[Legends66NBA7]

Ether. :roll:
:applause: :applause: :applause:

I also added Elvin Hayes and West Unseld.

After 1975, it looked like they would never win it all. Especially when Hayes proclaimed something as absurd as a scoring title being more important than a championship.

[WillyJakk]

To truthfully answer ya question Legend I'd have said Dirk would be the only one considering how he flamed in 2006 & 2007.

He's the only one, you brought up those others (mostly legendary players) so now I have to ask you a question in return:

Were you actually around to see those guys play?

Have you ever seen them play?

And no, I don't mean on NBATV Classic Replays, were you alive and watching them play in the NBA?

If you weren't or didn't then all those players you listed are moot to this discussion considering they won (some of them as the secondary player) in all likelihood after the fact.

When you bring up those names, you are likely going by what others (peers, etc) thought about said player but it doesn't necessarily mean it's true.

I'm going by what my eyes and experiences tell me about the guy, not "bigfoot footage" or conjecture by other people thoughts or opinions.

[Legends66NBA7]

Were you actually around to see those guys play?

Have you ever seen them play?

And no, I don't mean on NBATV Classic Replays, were you alive and watching them play in the NBA?

If you weren't or didn't then all those players you listed are moot to this discussion considering they won (some of them as the secondary player) in all likelihood after the fact.

When you bring up those names, you are likely going by what others (peers, etc) thought about said player but it doesn't necessarily mean it's true.

I'm going by what my eyes and experiences tell me about the guy, not "bigfoot footage" or conjecture by other people thoughts or opinions.

Fair enough.

To answer those questions, no. But I did watch Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, and obviously Kobe (those are the guys around my time anyways and I assume you were meaning them).

Maybe it wasn't the best idea to bring them up, but if they were criticized in somewhat similar way, then why change history? I may not have seen it but why would the opinions stay similar? Unless it's revisionist history?

We shall agree to disagree on the subject and I believe you have watched more than I have so I won't go deeper, unless I would know more about the subject brought up (which I can't necessarily do).

I don't factor in sole opinions as fact and that's a good thing on your part that you don't either. It's just another angle for me to look at.

[Heavincent]

Damn, Lebron made fun of Plaxico Burress? He's way more clutch than Lebron could ever hope to be. Not to mention he completely stole that celebration from Stevie Johnson :facepalm

[DaPerceive]

Never winning a championship doesn't mean you "Ain't Got It In You." It sounds like people don't understand what the OP is trying to say.

[WillyJakk]

Fair enough.

To answer those questions, no. But I did watch Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, and obviously Kobe (those are the guys around my time anyways and I assume you were meaning them).

Maybe it wasn't the best idea to bring them up, but if they were criticized in somewhat similar way, then why change history? I may not have seen it but why would the opinions stay similar? Unless it's revisionist history?

We shall agree to disagree on the subject and I believe you have watched more than I have so I won't go deeper, unless I would know more about the subject brought up (which I can't necessarily do).

I don't factor in sole opinions as fact and that's a good thing on your part that you don't either. It's just another angle for me to look at.

We sound about in the same "age bracketus" cause I grew up on Jordan, Nique, Hakeem, etc and vaguely remember how Jordan was considered a gunner etc and hey I'll even go this far:

I was surprised Hakeem & the Rockets won a Championship cause his rise kinda came outta nowhere and I don't think anyone really expected that BUT the one thing that the winners throughout history of ANY sport is the competitive will to win, whether good times or when the game isn't quite going their way.

They figure it out and LeBron doesn't have that in him. When he's ahead it's all good, he's a dancing machine but when he's down it's not all good.

Children act that way.

[coin24]

I'm just glad the season is starting in a few wks:rockon:

I certainly didn't miss all the lebron and Kobe stans and there idiotic arguments during the lockout. It's like as soon as they announced the season it goes from 2 or 3 threads into half the front page same old bullshit..:facepalm

[Simple Jack]

In 89 I believe, Jordan had his own "LeBron vs Boston" meltdown, against the Pistons. Shot 1/8 and airballed his only shot in the 4th quarter. People questioning his will to win; saying he looked like a spectator. Fast forward a few years and he was in the GOAT conversation.

Edit: This isn't to compare LeBron vs Jordan; just pointing out the fact that perception changes, especially when casual fans are so fickle.

[DaPerceive]

In 89 I believe, Jordan had his own "LeBron vs Boston" meltdown, against the Pistons. Shot 1/8 and airballed his only shot in the 4th quarter. People questioning his will to win; saying he looked like a spectator. Fast forward a few years and he was in the GOAT conversation.

Edit: This isn't to compare LeBron vs Jordan; just pointing out the fact that perception changes, especially when casual fans are so fickle.
Jordan never had his own "Lebron vs. Mavericks" meltdown, against any team so that negates your argument. I am sure some people questioned him in the 2010 off-season specifically Lakers fans about his will to win or whatever, but for the most part the majority did not question that facet about Lebron. The majority thought it was a probably a chicken and a puss move but they still didn't question his will to win just his will to stay in Cleveland. People are questioning Lebron's will to win because of his 2011 Finals performances more so than anything.

Lebron's 2011 Finals performance was probably the worst performance by any superstar in Finals history. The only performances that are ever argued for worst finals performance ever was Lebron's 2007 performance or Kobe's 2004 performance. Most people would take Lebron's 2007 and Kobe's 2004 finals performance over Lebron's 2011 finals performance. If it isn't the worst Finals performance in history it is definitely up there and Lebron's other finals performance is up there as well.

[ballsohard247]

In 89 I believe, Jordan had his own "LeBron vs Boston" meltdown, against the Pistons. Shot 1/8 and airballed his only shot in the 4th quarter. People questioning his will to win; saying he looked like a spectator. Fast forward a few years and he was in the GOAT conversation.

Edit: This isn't to compare LeBron vs Jordan; just pointing out the fact that perception changes, especially when casual fans are so fickle.
Magic was also considered a choker at one point now he is viewed only as a champion and all time great.

[305Baller]

Magic was also considered a choker at one point now he is viewed only as a champion and all time great.

:roll:

[DaPerceive]

Magic was also considered a choker at one point now he is viewed only as a champion and all time great.
You are talking about Tragic Johnson in 1984 right? Magic had two rings and two finals MVP before "Tragic Johnson" ever happened. There aren't many connections or similar paths by all-time greats to Lebron in this situation. Wilt Chamberlain and David Robinson are the only two players I would say that were anywhere near similar to Lebron's path.

[ballsohard247]

:roll:
Magic is a champion. and all time great, prove me wrong.:confusedshrug:

[ballsohard247]

Magic still choked, doesn't matter if he had rings or not. Having rings doesn't excuse choking in future finals. I agree though Lebron's situtation is different.

[305Baller]

Magic is a champion. and all time great, prove me wrong.:confusedshrug:

I am laughing at your silly attempt at comparing Bron to Magic.

[ballsohard247]

I am laughing at your silly attempt at comparing Bron to Magic.
Oh, you're a Lebron hater. Ok. :applause:

[WillyJakk]

Magic still choked, doesn't matter if he had rings or not. Having rings doesn't excuse choking in future finals. I agree though Lebron's situtation is different.

There's no excuse for choking BUT once you lay down the foundation that you know how to win (which Magic Johnson did as a rookie and times after that) it gives you a longer leash because you've established winning and knowing how to win as a part of your DNA.

Had LeBron already had a ring it'd be looked at as a bad series, just as Kobe's was but since he hasn't laid down that foundation you gotta look at guys differently and hold them to a certain standard until they win.

[305Baller]

Oh, you're a Lebron hater. Ok. :applause:

uh, no. I am normal, realistic basketball fan.

[ballsohard247]

There's no excuse for choking BUT once you lay down the foundation that you know how to win (which Magic Johnson did as a rookie and times after that) it gives you a longer leash because you've established winning and knowing how to win as a part of your DNA.

Had LeBron already had a ring it'd be looked at as a bad series, just as Kobe's was but since he hasn't laid down that foundation you gotta look at guys differently and hold them to a certain standard until they win.
I agree. But I wouldn't be suprised if this thread gets bumped in the future when he wins some rings. People act like he is a scrub, and like the Heat are incable of winning. I'm not a Heat fan, and personally don't care for Lebron, but they are the team to beat. Last year could end up a minor speedbump for this team.

[305Baller]

I agree. But I wouldn't be suprised if this thread gets bumped in the future when he wins some rings. People act like he is a scrub, and like the Heat are incable of winning. I'm not a Heat fan, and personally don't care for Lebron, but they are the team to beat. Last year could end up a minor speedbump for this team.

The Heat are a good team (the 2nd best in the league) and LeBron is one of the best players in the league.

Nothing has changed, no matter what anyone says.

[ballsohard247]

uh, no. I am normal, realistic basketball fan.
Lebron may not be as good as Magic, I don't think he is, but it's not like is a scrub. He is the best in the game, that includes Wade by the way, and no matter how many people hate him that fact will not change.

[305Baller]

Lebron may not be as good as Magic, I don't think he is, but it's not like is a scrub. He is the best in the game, that includes Wade by the way, and no matter how many people hate him that fact will not change.

uh.. yeah. he is ok for a tall multi- millionaire.

[DaPerceive]

Magic still choked, doesn't matter if he had rings or not. Having rings doesn't excuse choking in future finals. I agree though Lebron's situtation is different.
It's not an excuse but it's the difference between having a bad series and lacking the will to win. Magic was an established and proven winner in 1984. Lebron was not and is still not an established winner in 2007 or in 2011 (right now).

[WillyJakk]

If the Heat win a championship w/ LeBron jumping and dancing and showboating around then I will eat crow and won't mind one bit if this thread is bumped.

Clearly I stated that he has to change this in order for him to be a champion, which is my opinion of him.

Always have and still think he's a helluva baller, just not a winner's mentality.

[ballsohard247]

uh.. yeah. he is ok for a tall multi- millionaire.
Usually the good ones are tall multimillionaires.:lol

[305Baller]

If the Heat win a championship w/ LeBron jumping and dancing and showboating around then I will eat crow and won't mind one bit if this thread is bumped.

Clearly I stated that he has to change this in order for him to be a champion, which is my opinion of him.

Always have and still think he's a helluva baller, just not a winner's mentality.
wow, you are out of touch. it's amazing.

[ballsohard247]

If the Heat win a championship w/ LeBron jumping and dancing and showboating around then I will eat crow and won't mind one bit if this thread is bumped.

Clearly I stated that he has to change this in order for him to be a champion, which is my opinion of him.

Always have and still think he's a helluva baller, just not a winner's mentality.
This. He doesn't seem to have the "killer" mentality, not saying anything groundbreaking there, but he becomes passive on the biggest stage. Maybe he really does need a psychiatrist or something. In any event, his performance last year was inexcusable.

[WillyJakk]

wow, you are out of touch. it's amazing.

What's amazing is you trippin' like the title is just gonna be handed to this guy and the Heat.

Y'all didn't wanna see us in the PO's but we got shellshocked by the Hawks which was a huge disappointment cause really,

I still remember Jameer Nelson ballin' on y'all callin' them dudes a buncha "punk mothaf*ckas" when we beat y'all in our home game.

That was directed straight at LBJ, too btw cause when y'all was up dude was clownin' and soon as Meer hit that and 1 jumper to put us up, he looked at y'all bench and said that and y'all didn't have no response.

[305Baller]

What's amazing is you trippin' like the title is just gonna be handed to this guy and the Heat.

Y'all didn't wanna see us in the PO's but we got shellshocked by the Hawks which was a huge disappointment cause really,

I still remember Jameer Nelson ballin' on y'all callin' them dudes a buncha "punk mothaf*ckas" when we beat y'all in our home game.

That was directed straight at LBJ, too btw cause when y'all was up dude was clownin' and soon as Meer hit that and 1 jumper to put us up, he looked at y'all bench and said that and y'all didn't have no response.

Yeah thats a lot of noise there. You mad?

Back to the subject:
LeBron had no fun antics last year. He was boring as hell to watch.
As a Heat fan, I wish he would stay more loose and have fun with Wade. But they are all business.... almost to a fault.

[WillyJakk]

Yeah thats a lot of noise there. You mad?

Back to the subject:
LeBron had no fun antics last year. He was boring as hell to watch.
As a Heat fan, I wish he would stay more loose and have fun with Wade. But they are all business.... almost to a fault.

Far from mad.

I'm looking forward to us playin' y'all again.

The reason why LBJ wasn't as hopped us was because Pat Riley runs a tight ship and doesn't go for any of that.

Not to mention his feelings were hurt and he was mentally trying to figure out how to handle being disliked for the 1st time ever in his career.

He may not ever recover from that.

[305Baller]

"
Far from mad.

I'm looking forward to us playin' y'all again.

The reason why LBJ wasn't as hopped us was because Pat Riley runs a tight ship and doesn't go for any of that.

Not to mention his feelings were hurt and he was mentally trying to figure out how to handle being disliked for the 1st time ever in his career.

He may not ever recover from that.
ok so with that being said, go back to your earlier comment and think about it.

[Simple Jack]

Jordan never had his own "Lebron vs. Mavericks" meltdown, against any team so that negates your argument. I am sure some people questioned him in the 2010 off-season specifically Lakers fans about his will to win or whatever, but for the most part the majority did not question that facet about Lebron. The majority thought it was a probably a chicken and a puss move but they still didn't question his will to win just his will to stay in Cleveland. People are questioning Lebron's will to win because of his 2011 Finals performances more so than anything.

Lebron's 2011 Finals performance was probably the worst performance by any superstar in Finals history. The only performances that are ever argued for worst finals performance ever was Lebron's 2007 performance or Kobe's 2004 performance. Most people would take Lebron's 2007 and Kobe's 2004 finals performance over Lebron's 2011 finals performance. If it isn't the worst Finals performance in history it is definitely up there and Lebron's other finals performance is up there as well.


It doesn't negate anything. All i was bringing up was the fact that perception of players can change over time, and dramatically so.

[ballsohard247]

It doesn't negate anything. All i was bringing up was the fact that perception of players can change over time, and dramatically so.
Us sports fans are "what have you done for me lately" people. We live in the moment, and if he wins 4 or 5 championships like he thinks they will, last year could be a footnote.

[DaPerceive]

It doesn't negate anything. All i was bringing up was the fact that perception of players can change over time, and dramatically so.
Actually it does and it did. Lebron is going about 10x the heat for his 2011 Finals performance than he did for his 2010 Celtics series. Your comparison with Michael Jordan may have worked in the 2010 off-season but it does not work in the 2011 off-season. You can talk to me when you find a series by Michael Jordan that was anywhere near similar to Lebron's 2011 finals.

[D-Wade316]

Before 1967, would you say Wilt Chamberlain "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All ?

Before 1971, would you say Oscar Robertson "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All ?

Before 1972, would you say Jerry West "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All (though he played bad in that Finals) ?

Before 1975, would you say Rick Barry "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All ?

Before 1978, would you say Elvin Hayes and Wes Unseld "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All ?

Before 1983, would you say Moses Malone and Julius Erving "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All ?

Before 1989, would you say Isiah Thomas "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All ?

Before 1991, would you say Michael Jordan "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All ?

Before 1994, would you say Hakeem Olajuwon "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All ?

Before 2000, would you say Shaquille O`Neal "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All ?

Before 2009, would you say Kobe Bryant was a coat tail rider and "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All as the man ?

Before 2011, would you say Dirk Nowitzki "Ain't Got It In Him" To Win It All ?
PWNED

[Jasper]

I read the title , and the OP and thought LEbron was talking about Howard :wtf:

flip flop / the day and times of ISH :rant

[RRR3]

:roll:

[G-train]

OP is full of fail.

Especially regarding changing jersey to 6 while at Cavs, hello he doesnt need to apply for a change if he goes to another team via FA.
If anything that indicates he is staying.
:oldlol:
EDIT: or trade, as he was traded.

[pauk]

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k107/jonaldirie/295pzif.gif

[ILLsmak]

:roll:

It's funny, but at the same time you know people were bumping the threads that said Bron was going to win a ring when he didn't. The whole championship cruise thing...

I dunno, I just think bumping is lame unless you make some epic prediction. LIKE ME PREDICTING MEYERS LEONARD WOULD BE A LOTTO PICK.

Oh, well not really but you know what I mean? I also remember saying Dallas has the best composition the year before they won. JUST SAYIN.

But haters gonna hate. No reason to bring it back up. You know these people know they were wrong. Saying any superstar player won't ever win is just stupid.

-Smak