Nash is the best player in the league

[bomber]

Im sorry but he deserves the MVP this year WAY more than he did the previous two seasons. If he doesnt get it this year then we could argue that last years back to back was a reach and they were making up for it this year. But I cant believe he not only sustained those type of numbers but actually improved them. If the Suns get a 1-2 Seed he should 3peat. :bowdown:

[hotsizzle]

that arguement is so flawed. it keeps getting worst. just because he won last 2 yrs...and is better this yr..he gets it again? I dont get that..what if he didnt deserve it last year at all; what if theres somone better this yr?

[Jailblazers7]

No doubt he is playing well shooting over 50% from the field and from 3 while averaging a career high 20 ppg and only slightly off his 2005 assist mark with 11.3 apg. If he manages to keep this up he will win his 3rd straight MVP.

[West-Side]

Your logic is flawed and the NBA should be ashamed of themselves if they give it to Nash AGAIN...we talk about "fair"...Shaquille should have won the MVP for 5 straight years basically...but he didn't, Nash doesn't affect the game the way prime Shaquille used to...so why should Nash win his 3rd straight MVP, that's a joke...considering he didn't deserve it the last two years.

His first MVP he put up something like 16/10...with not much rebounds or defense...and last season you had a player who averaged 35 PPG, nearly beat NASH's 2nd seed team in the playoffs and made All-Defensive team AND LeBron who simply had a better all around season AND Dirk who took his team to the finals...so Nash isn't the best player in the game, not even top 5...and yes he's having a better season then his last two years...I wouldn't be surprised if he wins it again, considering he didn't deserve his first two...but I feel bad for Shaquille and Duncan who never had the love Nash is getting from the NBA.

[elementally morale]

Change best with most valuable and I agree.

[Jailblazers7]

that arguement is so flawed. it keeps getting worst. just because he won last 2 yrs...and is better this yr..he gets it again? I dont get that..what if he didnt deserve it last year at all; what if theres somone better this yr?

But i dont see anybody stepping up to take it away from him. Lebron does not deserve it this year so far and i dont think Gilbert can keep this up and even if he does he still prob wont win it. Maybe Dirk or Duncan if they improve their stats a bit and either of them leads their team to the best record in the league.

[West-Side]

Change best with most valuable and I agree.

Phoenix minus Nash are still a 50 win team...I agree, and so should you.
He's not the most valuable, he's just in a great position with ALOT of good shooters....a team that plays no defense and just score 120 points a game...I bet Chris Paul gets that team 20/12 and 2 steals on 48% shooting...is he the MVP too?

Quit overrating the guy, he's the best PG in the league bar none...a top 7 player in my book, but I'm sick of him getting overrated.

[geeWiz15]

no he's not.

[bomber]

You didnt understand me.

I felt nash wasnt the clear cut winner last year. I feel he is head and shoulders above everyone else this year because he has greatly improved from an MVP level year last year. No one stands out to me as much as Nash, perhaps Boozer if he was able to sustain his level and keep his team winning at such a high rate.

My logic is not flawed. I felt he deserved it two years ago. I felt he should have finished behind dirk and maybe lebron and wade last year but was still a top canidate.

And I feel that this year he has seperated himself from his peers and is without question the most valuable player in the league.

[yelk]

nash deserves the praise. hes been spectacular so far. way better than kobes and vinces accomplishments combined, in my opinion.

[West-Side]

Kobe
LeBron
Duncan
Dirk
Wade
Garnett

All should be considered better players, in EVERYONES mind...you can also make an arguement for Iverson being the better player.

[hotsizzle]

whats funny is if he wins it and phx still doesnt make the finals. that would be utterly sad and a disgrace to the most valuable player award. a 3peat MVP winner that cant get to the finals in none of them

[bomber]

Honestly I dont like Nash all that much, I like Iverson much more. But I looked at his stats and his record and after watching him play I can't deny it.

[West-Side]

whats funny is if he wins it and phx still doesnt make the finals. that would be utterly sad and a disgrace to the most valuable player award. a 3peat MVP winner that cant get to the finals in none of them

Nash is the WORST MVP EVER...the fact that he won it back to back, and might win it for a 3rd straight time makes me down right sick...and what makes my blood boil even more is that these little kids who don't know sh*t about basketball claiming he deserves it.

My heart goes out to you JOHN STOCKTON, a guy who was never an MVP candidate but sh*ts on Nash in basically every category but scoring as a PG.

Get the phuck outta here with Nash, I'm tired of this redundant conversation.

[yelk]

Nash is the WORST MVP EVER...the fact that he won it back to back, and might win it for a 3rd straight time makes me down right sick...and what makes my blood boil even more is that these little kids who don't know sh*t about basketball claiming he deserves it.

My heart goes out to you JOHN STOCKTON, a guy who was never an MVP candidate but sh*ts on Nash in basically every category but scoring as a PG.

Get the phuck outta here with Nash, I'm tired of this redundant conversation.

1 question r u black?

[yelk]

ud prolly feel sick too if stockton won it back to back. tell the truth

[StroShow4]

Honestly I dont like Nash all that much, I like Iverson much more. But I looked at his stats and his record and after watching him play I can't deny it.


i second that

[GOBB]

whats funny is if he wins it and phx still doesnt make the finals. that would be utterly sad and a disgrace to the most valuable player award. a 3peat MVP winner that cant get to the finals in none of them

Is that a prerequisite for an mvp winner? To get to the NBA finals even tho the MVP is a regular season based award?

Who do you think is more derserving. Its early so I'df understand if you dont have any top canidates right now. But Nash with his 20ppg 4rb 12ast and shooting over 50% from the field and 3pt arc plus 90% FT is insane. Does he have to avg 30ppg 20asp 10rbs and shoot over 70% fg, 70% 3pt and 100% ft to get the award....it cant just be based on whether he gets to the NBA finals. MVP = regular season. No barring on the playoffs...it just so happens the past mvp champs have got to the nba finals.

[hotsizzle]

Is that a prerequisite for an mvp winner? To get to the NBA finals even tho the MVP is a regular season based award?

Who do you think is more derserving. Its early so I'df understand if you dont have any top canidates right now. But Nash with his 20ppg 4rb 12ast and shooting over 50% from the field and 3pt arc plus 90% FT is insane. Does he have to avg 30ppg 20asp 10rbs and shoot over 70% fg, 70% 3pt and 100% ft to get the award....it cant just be based on whether he gets to the NBA finals. MVP = regular season. No barring on the playoffs...it just so happens the past mvp champs have got to the nba finals.

You're right, its a regular season MVP award but dont you think a legit 3time MVP can also step up and take his loaded team to the finals. In the past, thats what most MVPs did..especially three time winners..why? because multiple time MVP winners are that good, true legends. theres a thing about the playoffs, thats when true greatness is measured. Multiple MVP winners in the past possessed that greatness, what does it say if Nash doesnt do it? Hes a great player sure but are you really worthy of 3 MVPs if you cant step up on the greatest stage?

[Jailblazers7]

Not all MVP's have gotten to the finals the year they won it like Tim Duncan in 2002 and KG in 2004

[D]

Nash will not win another MVP.

[yelk]

Is that a prerequisite for an mvp winner? To get to the NBA finals even tho the MVP is a regular season based award?

Who do you think is more derserving. Its early so I'df understand if you dont have any top canidates right now. But Nash with his 20ppg 4rb 12ast and shooting over 50% from the field and 3pt arc plus 90% FT is insane. Does he have to avg 30ppg 20asp 10rbs and shoot over 70% fg, 70% 3pt and 100% ft to get the award....it cant just be based on whether he gets to the NBA finals. MVP = regular season. No barring on the playoffs...it just so happens the past mvp champs have got to the nba finals.

yea, what he said :rockon: nash seems to be the best candidate out there right now. anyone who denies it is either a hater or a kobe/vince fan.

[Younggrease]

Not all MVP's have gotten to the finals the year they won it like Tim Duncan in 2002 and KG in 2004

Tell me someone who won 3 consectutive MVP's and failed to get to the finals with a loaded team. If you win 3 straight you have to dominate the league and NAsh isnt doing that.

I hope NAsh wins 2 more, actually so win his career is done and he has 0 championships people can look back and hopefully see their mistake. Nash winning back to back MVP's hurt the awards prestige because it changed what the award meant. It used to stand for greatness reguardless of saying MVP.

[A Roc 23]

Is it a coincedence that everyone in this thread who has bad things to say about Nash is a Laker fan? :confusedshrug:

:cheers:

[A Roc 23]

Tell me someone who won 3 consectutive MVP's and failed to get to the finals with a loaded team. If you win 3 straight you have to dominate the league and NAsh isnt doing that.

I never knew that was the criteria :oldlol: .

[hotsizzle]

Not all MVP's have gotten to the finals the year they won it like Tim Duncan in 2002 and KG in 2004

talkin about multiple winners here bro. especially 3time winners

[yelk]

Is it a coincedence that everyone in this thread who has bad things to say about Nash is a Laker fan? :confusedshrug:

:cheers:

:oldlol: yea :cheers:

[D]

Is it a coincedence that everyone in this thread who has bad things to say about Nash is a Laker fan? :confusedshrug:

:cheers:
Don is not a Laker Fan

[bballer]

i would go with him

[A Roc 23]

[QUOTE=D

[TheHonestTruth]

Nash is the GOAT already, just give him the MVP award.

[MaxFly]

Three time MVP. Get used to it. He's going to go down as a legend in the realm of Magic and Bird... Three time MVP... :banghead:

[D]

You didn't say anything about him. :hammerhead:
Read again. Don did say Nash would not win another MVP

[hotsizzle]

Is it a coincedence that everyone in this thread who has bad things to say about Nash is a Laker fan? :confusedshrug:

:cheers:

this has nothing to do with me being a lakers fan. Id feel the same way under any circumstances

[GoRapz]

Don is just a gimmick

[Younggrease]

Three time MVP. Get used to it. He's going to go down as a legend in the realm of Magic and Bird... Three time MVP... :banghead:

bexause of this in 20 years people will look back and actually argue about who was better in their prime between Nash and Bird or Magic or Isiah. When all three were much better players.

[poorlilrich]

Don is just a gimmick

:cheers:

[D]

Don is just a gimmick
GoRapz is just a fat@ss

[IceMan2]

Don is just a gimmick
Sorry if I am just not with it. But I always wondered, whats a gimmick?

[yelk]

bexause of this in 20 years people will look back and actually argue about who was better in their prime between Nash and Bird or Magic or Isiah. When all three were much better players.

if nash cant win a ring before he retires he wont be mentioned in the same sentence with bird and magic. come on its that simple.

[BFRESH44]

He's most certainy going to get it again..His numbers are up, and PHX is still winning at the same pace.

Man has that D'Antoni system make him look incredible.

Nash is going to have more MVP's than Shaq, Hakeem, and Barkely combined...:roll::roll:

Pretty funny.

[yelk]

aint matter hes 3peat mvp or whatever

[poorlilrich]

nash is just a product of the phoenix system

if you put him back on the dallas team his averages will go way down

[D]

At least we all agree to Nash being the worst multiple MVP winner ever. And maybe the worst MVP ever. And everyone is talking about him winning 3 MVPs

[poorlilrich]

[QUOTE=D

[yelk]

[QUOTE=D

[LiL Stevie]

Another Nash debate...

[yelk]

Another Nash debate...

ur contribution is appreciated.

[MaxFly]

bexause of this in 20 years people will look back and actually argue about who was better in their prime between Nash and Bird or Magic or Isiah. When all three were much better players.

Exactly... :banghead:

[i seen hippos]

Someone has to be the worst 3-time MVP, right?:roll:

[poorlilrich]

well he derserved the last 2. or did u think that kobe deserved more than nash? :)

Yes he did.

Kobe had a worst team, made the playoffs and he played some d

Its a godamn conspiracy the black players dont win anymore.

[XxNeXuSxX]

Let's be frank so the little people understand it. Nash didn't deserve it his first year, Shaq did without question. The second year is arguable since Nash had a fantastic year without his second banana. This year it will not happen, the media will refuse to put him in the spotlight of Bill Russel esk.

Let's get it straight though, no one on a team that get's a #6 seed or lower has got nor deserved to get an MVP in the past 35 years. Just because you average millions of shot attempts and win some games,(No shot intended) if you aren't an elite team, you don't deserve a MVP award, period. It will stay like that.

Now, saying that, this year I have this feeling this year it will be Shawn Marion, because the media loves to say he's "underrated" "underrated!!!" and will continue to do so even after he wins an MVP as the third-best player on a team. That would be sh*t.

[i seen hippos]

Shaq deserved it?....If he won, he would have been the worst MVP in league history just as some people say Nash is.

[KIWI]

kidd said nash should be averaging 20apg with the team he has!

[XxNeXuSxX]

Yes he did.

Kobe had a worst team, made the playoffs and he played some d

Its a godamn conspiracy the black players dont win anymore.
Kobe should NOT have got it last year, Lebron or Dirk were my picks. Kobe is a lot more deserving this year than last, simply because his team wins(with essentially the same roster...). Kobe's team didn't need him to chuck up 35ppg on sub 44% shooting for them to win games, they needed him to take over in the fourth, and also let Lamar feel comfortable(as Kobe was doing this year).

[MaxFly]

Shaq deserved it?....If he won, he would have been the worst MVP in league history just as some people say Nash is.

In 04-05, yes, a very good argument can be made for him.

[XxNeXuSxX]

Shaq deserved it?....If he won, he would have been the worst MVP in league history just as some people say Nash is.
You remember his first season with the Heat, right? That's the season I'm referring to, not last season.

[LakersDynasty]

kidd said nash should be averaging 20apg with the team he has!
Link?

[telephone]

i think nash deserved it his first year but most definetly NOT the 2nd year.

Dirk should easily be MVP. The guy is just dominant and PLUS what gives him the edge over nash was his clutchness against phoenix.

Dirk has led Dallas when needed and won the close games and nash has not. (These are all facts based off the mavs vs. suns game thread and all from memory so excuse me if i mess up on stats). I remember someone saying that the close games will help them in the playoffs but they had a BAD losing record in those close games. That doesnt make sense and why Nash shouldnt win MVP if he cant help his team win CLOSE games.

I have a question about nash. Why does he always lay on the ground instead of sitting in a chair?

[D]

well he derserved the last 2. or did u think that kobe deserved more than nash? :)
No I don't

[poorlilrich]

how do u think barbosa averages 4 assists a game

if the suns didnt have nash and they played the same way, barbosa would be

averaging crazy numbers

D'antoni is genius

[poorlilrich]

[QUOTE=D

[LakersDynasty]

I have a question about nash. Why does he always lay on the ground instead of sitting in a chair?
Resting his back.

[KIWI]

Link?

nah no link i just made it up these nash/mvp threads seem to pop up like every sec:banghead:

[D]

explain yourself u ****ing retard
Winning is the no.1 thing looked at when talking about MVPs. Name me the last MVP whose team wasn't no.1 or no.2 in their confrence


Anything else Poorlilb!tch?

[adamcz]

Nash is ridiculously good. Seriously. I posted this in the game thread today already, but as I was watching the game, I had to sit there in awe - 10 posessions in a row (approx.) he dominated the Pistons defense, getting an open look for his teammates every single time down the floor.

He is one of the best offensive players of all time. He scores almost as well as Kobe/Wade and is simultaneously the best passer alive. Magic and Bird might have been able to play slightly better defense due to their bigger size, but neither could score like Nash does. I know it's sacrliege to say that todays players can touch the legends of the past, but watch the games!

I've got Bird and Magic's greatest games on DVD, and I've never seen them dominate play after play after play like Nash has been doing the 4 or so games I've watched this year.

Kidd has no place to talk trash about Nash. If he could score like Nash can, he'd see the passing lanes that Nash sees, and get some more assists.

Is Nash the best player in the league? Really depends on how you define it. Kobe has the potential to do more jaw dropping things, and Dirk and Duncan are more likely to win you a championship due to the enhanced value of a big man in the playoffs. Nash is probably the player who could most reliably lead 4 scrubs to the playoffs.

[telephone]

[QUOTE=D

[KIWI]

Nash is ridiculously good. Seriously. I posted this in the game thread today already, but as I was watching the game, I had to sit there in awe - 10 posessions in a row (approx.) he dominated the Pistons defense, getting an open look for his teammates every single time down the floor.

He is one of the best offensive players of all time. He scores almost as well as Kobe/Wade and is simultaneously the best passer alive. Magic and Bird might have been able to play slightly better defense due to their bigger size, but neither could score like Nash does. I know it's sacrliege to say that todays players can touch the legends of the past, but watch the games!

I've got Bird and Magic's greatest games on DVD, and I've never seen them dominate play after play after play like Nash has been doing the 4 or so games I've watched this year.

Kidd has no place to talk trash about Nash. If he could score like Nash can, he'd see the passing lanes that Nash sees, and get some more assists.

Is Nash the best player in the league? Really depends on how you define it. Kobe has the potential to do more jaw dropping things, and Dirk and Duncan are more likely to win you a championship due to the enhanced value of a big man in the playoffs. Nash is probably the player who could most reliably lead 4 scrubs to the playoffs.

i made it up bro:)

[poorlilrich]

[QUOTE=D

[D]

Although phoenix was ranked number 2 they werent the second winningest team in the conference. The mavs were.
And thats what I meant by no.2. Thats what they were in the playoffs. But Don will just say name the last non 50+ win team with an MVP in there, and you'll run into the early 80s

Bottom Line: No matter how good of a season the player has in the stat books, if he doesn't win, No MVP. Kobe can put up 45ppg 10rpg 9apg this year, but if his team doesn't make playoffs, he won't win MVP

[D]

phoenix was 4th seed when barkley won it
Good Find. If only it was true. Try again, look down to 1982 Poorlilb!tch

[sydneyking]

Magic and Bird might have been able to play slightly better defense due to their bigger size, but neither could score like Nash does.
I'm sorry but you're very very wrong, especially in relation to Bird. Nash has never averaged over 20ppg so there's just no way I could put him over someone who I think is the third greatest scorer of all time (behing MJ and Shaq).

Nash is not even as good a scorer as Iverson.


Nash is probably the player who could most reliably lead 4 scrubs to the playoffs.
... except that he has never had scrubs around him. The Marbury Suns were considerably worse than Nash's and they still challenged the Spurs. I doubt that Nash could lead 4 scrubs to the playoffs. The only (current) player who could would be Duncan.

[poorlilrich]

i ****ed up

i confused 92 season with 93 season

[telephone]

sydney i think adamcz means by scoring is getting his team scoring as well as himself scoring.

[D]

i ****ed up

i confused 92 season with 93 season
Idiots make idiotic mistakes all the time

[FabCasablancas]

Im sorry but he deserves the MVP this year WAY more than he did the previous two seasons. If he doesnt get it this year then we could argue that last years back to back was a reach and they were making up for it this year. But I cant believe he not only sustained those type of numbers but actually improved them. If the Suns get a 1-2 Seed he should 3peat. :bowdown:

Actually it proves he wasn't playing very well the seaosn before.. of cours eh is playing better.. Amare is back.. Nash's team is loaded.. he is as reliant on them as they are of him.. the Suns have played very well without Nash on the court at times as wel. They made their comeback on the Mavs when Nash was on the bench the other night.

[poorlilrich]

[QUOTE=D

[Younggrease]

sydney i think adamcz means by scoring is getting his team scoring as well as himself scoring.

he is still very wrong...

[D]

and faggats post with bolded words
That makes sense and is very logical

[poorlilrich]

http://skp36.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/retard.jpg.w300h341.jpg
"Bold!!!, Bold!!!!!, Bold!!!!!!"

[D]

Before anyone every says Kobe or LeBron should win MVP, they should know, great individual seasons with great stats don't result in MVPs.

Ask yourself, why didn't Wilt Chamberlain win MVP when he averaged 50ppg and 26rpg? Because winning is the no.1 factor by far

[D]

http://skp36.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/retard.jpg.w300h341.jpg
"Bold!!!, Bold!!!!!, Bold!!!!!!"
:rolleyes:

Don is done with this thread

[poorlilrich]

damn the picture didnt work

[Glove_20]

Dirk should've won MVP over Nash last year without a doubt


1. More winning
2. Worse Tammates (even at best)
3. Even/Better numbers

[geeWiz15]

what is a Starcast? sounds like an N64 game

[Glove_20]

what is a Starcast? sounds like an N64 game
happy?

[sydneyking]

Dirk should've won MVP over Nash last year without a doubt


1. More winning
2. Worse Starcast (even at best)
3. Even/Better numbers
Agreed.

[Glove_20]

Like I say

Nash isn't even a Top 10 PG of All-Time...Putting him next to Bird and Magic is crazy

Let him in on Top 10 PGs of All-Time 1st

[i seen hippos]

Dirk's just another really good pf....not MVP material.

And Dallas had a better team last year. Don't know how that's even a debate.

[telephone]

what is a Starcast? sounds like an N64 game

HAHA it so does

[telephone]

Dirk's just another really good pf....not MVP material.

And Dallas had a better team last year. Don't know how that's even a debate.

give me a break. Dirk pretty much changed the PF position.

[i seen hippos]

Doesn't mean he's any better than Garnett or Brand were last year...or Garnett and Duncan are this year.

Does a pg that can play C automatically make him the best pg in the league?

[lay-up]

Kobe was the most valuable player in the league last year.

Kobe was
a) more important to his team
b) a greater danger to the other team
c) more brilliant

than nash.

Nash-less Suns is much better than a Kobe-less Lakers last year which is what, by definition of most valuable, the award is all about.


But yeh, Nash'll win a third and the award is flawed big time. Journalists are d-bags...


Still, Nash is a very good player, no question.

[lay-up]

Kobe was the most valuable player in the league last year.

Kobe was
a) more important to his team
b) a greater danger to the other team
c) more brilliant

than nash.

Nash-less Suns is much better than a Kobe-less Lakers last year which is what, by definition of most valuable, the award is all about.


But yeh, Nash'll win a third and the award is flawed big time. Journalists are d-bags...


Still, Nash is a very good player, no question.

[nashforprez]

Kobe was the most valuable player in the league last year.

Kobe was
a) more important to his team
b) a greater danger to the other team
c) more brilliant

than nash.

Nash-less Suns is much better than a Kobe-less Lakers last year which is what, by definition of most valuable, the award is all about.


But yeh, Nash'll win a third and the award is flawed big time. Journalists are d-bags...


Still, Nash is a very good player, no question.

nash-less suns last year were perhaps the ugliest thing to iwatch on television next to rosy. at least the lakers had a guy who could score on his own named lamar. who did the suns have? barbosa? you really never watched any of pete maravich. nash is pete maravich

[West-Side]

I'm white, what does my skin colour have to do with me calling Nash overrated? And why did ARoc claim that only Laker fans dislike Nash? I don't fear Nash AT ALL, half the time I don't even notice him on the court...Tim Thomas killed LA last season....Boris Diaw killed us, Nash played mediocre at best...he had a few great games but Kobe clearly outplayed his ass all series long.

Nash is the engined of a very high scoring offense, with ALOT of capable scorers...he's a POINT GUARD...so because he score 18 or some points and had 10 assists...that's enough for be warranted an MVP award...let me remind you that Phoenix finished last season very weak. I think 2 time MVP should do a little more then rack up assists on a very skilled team, BREVIN KNIGHT was getting 9 assists...so basically because Nash gets 18 points on 50% shooting...that's good enough these days? :roll:

Like someone said...he'll have more MVPs then Shaquille, Barkley and Duncan combined? Or tie them...that's downright pathetic, Nash isn't a GAME BREAKER like Kobe or LeBron...he's in a great position, he's very unselfish....he has alot of talent and he's a great shooter.

To me a PG in this league should atleast get 22 PPG, 10 APG, 5 RPG on 46%+ shooting and actually be a threat to make a 2nd team All-Defense...again I repeat, Nash is the best PG in the game bar none, a top 7 player but the praises some of you give him are a bit extreme.

[nashforprez]

i never understood why being a product of the system was a bad thing. somebody explain this to me.

[West-Side]

at least the lakers had a guy who could score on his own named lamar. who did the suns have? barbosa?

Odom played very inconsistant last season until late in the year...Nash has Marion, Barbosa, Diaw and Bell...all are capable of scoring 15 PPG for any team.

LA has Odom who can score that...no one else. I think the fact that we don't have many great PGs right now, is the main reason Nash is getting so much love.

[nashforprez]

Odom played very inconsistant last season until late in the year...Nash has Marion, Barbosa, Diaw and Bell...all are capable of scoring 15 PPG for any team.


not by themselves. watch them w/out nash on the court.

[West-Side]

not by themselves. watch them w/out nash on the court.

Oh I did, and I particularly liked how they stepped up against my Lakers last season in the playoffs when Nash had what 2 great games all series?

You don't remember Barbosa going off on LA last season...or Diaw making alot of clutch shots? Must have amnesia my man.

:roll: @ you trying to sell that without Nash Phoenix won't manage 40 wins...they'll still be a top 5 seed in the west without Nash, and Barbosa at the point. That's exactly why he ain't no MVP...him being in a perfect position benefits him tremendously...he just using his two biggest assets on a team that needs exactly what he has to offer.

[KWALI]

Nash is ridiculously good. Seriously. I posted this in the game thread today already, but as I was watching the game, I had to sit there in awe - 10 posessions in a row (approx.) he dominated the Pistons defense, getting an open look for his teammates every single time down the floor.

He is one of the best offensive players of all time. He scores almost as well as Kobe/Wade and is simultaneously the best passer alive. Magic and Bird might have been able to play slightly better defense due to their bigger size, but neither could score like Nash does. I know it's sacrliege to say that todays players can touch the legends of the past, but watch the games!

I've got Bird and Magic's greatest games on DVD, and I've never seen them dominate play after play after play like Nash has been doing the 4 or so games I've watched this year.

I guess you've never seen the play-offs where Bird went at the HAWKS in the fourth and topped Nique......Or Magic vs the trail Blazers in the WC finals.....Of course those two have done that and to better teams too.


Kidd has no place to talk trash about Nash. If he could score like Nash can, he'd see the passing lanes that Nash sees, and get some more assists.


Don't know if Kidd said that but that's true his poor perimeter offense/shooting is his only weakness.



Is Nash the best player in the league? Really depends on how you define it. Kobe has the potential to do more jaw dropping things, and Dirk and Duncan are more likely to win you a championship due to the enhanced value of a big man in the playoffs. Nash is probably the player who could most reliably lead 4 scrubs to the playoffs.

4 scrubs? Hardly when has he ever done that? when has he been succesful with any scrubs..answer never......I love when people gawk over the passes he throws to Amare and Marion......It's just like Kidd to Martin..and now VC....Umm those passes only work becuz you have freak temates...replace Amare with Rasho Nesterovic...PHX has zero chance to win a title...the only got past the first round last eason becuz they got and advantageous matchup vs the Mavs or the Spurs in teh second round they would have been TOAST....

I love watching Nash offensively he is the best streetballer since Nate the Skate.....but he's no better....Seriously a three time MVp winner who never went to the finals..........Unheard off no one has responded to that point and why a guy who win MVP Thrice shoudn't be good enough to get to the FINALS on good teams.

[nashforprez]

Oh I did, and I particularly liked how they stepped up against my Lakers last season in the playoffs when Nash had what 2 great games all series?

You don't remember Barbosa going off on LA last season...or Diaw making alot of clutch shots? Must have amnesia my man.

:roll: @ you trying to sell that without Nash Phoenix won't manage 40 wins...they'll still be a top 5 seed in the west without Nash, and Barbosa at the point. That's exactly why he ain't no MVP...him being in a perfect position benefits him tremendously...he just using his two biggest assets on a team that needs exactly what he has to offer.

wondering if i really do have amnesia, but did i ever say that the suns wouldnt win 40 games if nash werent there? barbosa did the same thing against the lakers that he did the whole year. diaw stepped it up in the dallas series not the lakers. and 45 wins which is what the suns would get without nash is not enough to be top 5 in the west.

[hawkfan]

Winning a third MVP is not out of the question, although it wouldn't surprise me if Dirk Nowitzki or Gilbert Arenas won it.

[West-Side]

Kwali is a smart man, cheers.

[Wuxia]

I swear, if Nash wins MVP this year I'm never watching another NBA game ever again.

Well, maybe I will ONLY watch Spurs games.

[i seen hippos]

I'm sure the NBA has enough fans anyways. I'll be sure to send you a departing gift.:roll:

[Penny37]

Nash-less Suns is much better than a Kobe-less Lakers last year which is what, by definition of most valuable, the award is all about.

That has got to be one of the most retarded statements I've ever heard.
Nashless Suns are much better than Boshless Raptors. I guess by your definition that means Bosh is the MVP?

I'm confused...

[Solid Snake]

Kobe
LeBron
Duncan
Dirk
Wade
Garnett

All should be considered better players, in EVERYONES mind...you can also make an arguement for Iverson being the better player.

We're not talking about who's better, we're talking about who does the most valuable things for their team to help them win. And no, it's not subjective at ALL.

[Younggrease]

We're not talking about who's better, we're talking about who does the most valuable things for their team to help them win. And no, it's not subjective at ALL.

the term MVP wasnt always taken so literally, it only started to happen when it benefitted a certain soon to be 3 time MVP.

[RedBlackAttack]

We're not talking about who's better, we're talking about who does the most valuable things for their team to help them win. And no, it's not subjective at ALL.
So, in your estimation, what would the Cavs' record be without LeBron? They are currently 17-12. I'm saying that they would be competing for the worst record in the NBA.

The same goes for last year... and they were a 50 win team that made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs and pushed the Pistons to 7 games.

The Cavs' roster is pathetic without LeBron.

[vella@lakers.com]

i dont care bout the rest of this thread, i only read the first page. Nash is no where near as good as atleast 20 other players, as a lakers fan, i think that if you can manage to average 2nd best to the greatest player to ever walk on this earth, then you should be without a doubt the most valuable player in the nba. I didnt see and i wont see nash ever score as well as #24. Kobe would s**** on nash in alot more cases then nash doing the same to kobe. If you dont agree that kobe is a better player then nash then thats you problem. If LB won it last year I wouldnt argue because he would of deserved it aswell, but not nash.

[TMacsOneGoodEye]

It's like, yeah I got a C two years ago and won valedictorian. And I got a B last year and won valedictorian. If I get a B+ this year, I should get valedictorian again?

My peers are gonna hate me.

[JtotheIzzo]

Nash-less Suns is much better than a Kobe-less Lakers last year which is what, by definition of most valuable, the award is all about.

spoken like a true retard

Suns 3-8 without Nash

what are the Lakers without Kobe.

STFU, no one likes you and I am drunk and pished off.

Nash wont win this year. If Lakers win 50 its Kobe

if Dallas wins the west itll be Dirk

[jo3y91]

if nash wins another mvp i will freak he is not the mvp, to his team or to the nba.
last year he had marion and he won it....this i dnt understand. lebron has hughes for about 10 game due to hughes broken finger, and kobe has an inconsitent lamar for the first half of the season and yet these two dnt get the mvp???
lebron should have got it since he only averaged was 3 assists less than nash but still put up 11 more points and a hell of alot more rebounds, oh and is a better defender(ever notice how nash isnt any in a highlight for defence like kobe or lebron is?)
kobe should have won it for the fact that he took his team to the playoffs and he took the suns to game 7 in that series. oh and he did get an 81 point game in that season aswell.
if there were to be an mvp in the suns last year it should have bin shawn marion as he did alot more for the suns then nash did. he averaged 22 points 12 rebounds 2 blocks 2 assists 2 steals, and got 52 percent fg shooting.
i love the way nash plays but i hate the way hes overhyped, i want people to go and look at john stocktons stats. he scored more, passed more and played better d. and he never got an mvp. why should nash?
also nash has a much better team then other people why dsnt the mvp understand this. hes got barbosa, amare, marion, diaw, thomas. and yet people think if it wasnt for him suns would be horrible. give suns a few practices with nash on bench and barbosa starting and watch barbosa get 15 assists per game.
if nash gets mvp again this will give me another reason why i should kick david stern in his head!

[JtotheIzzo]

It's like, yeah I got a C two years ago and won valedictorian. And I got a B last year and won valedictorian. If I get a B+ this year, I should get valedictorian again?

My peers are gonna hate me.

yeah, just like that

[EricForman]

Nash is the WORST MVP EVER...the fact that he won it back to back, and might win it for a 3rd straight time makes me down right sick...and what makes my blood boil even more is that these little kids who don't know sh*t about basketball claiming he deserves it.

My heart goes out to you JOHN STOCKTON, a guy who was never an MVP candidate but sh*ts on Nash in basically every category but scoring as a PG.

Get the phuck outta here with Nash, I'm tired of this redundant conversation.


You....sound..... bitter.......

Look, I was among the ones that thought Nash winning MVP over Shaq was ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS at the time (05). But the lsat two years, the guy has proved me wrong. He still led the Suns to 50 plus wings and a WCF run with a totally different cast than 05, and this year, 21, 11, 3 boards, 53% from FG, 50% from 3, 90% at the line?????

Enough is enough. Nash winning three straight would be pretty gross, but now not one of you should deny him having at least one. There have been enough "Nash doesn't deserve MVP" talk over the lsat two years... it's time to shut up with that. I have.

Bottom line-- maybe not three in a row, but now even if you're the biggest anti Nash, you gotta admit he deserves at least ONE MVP over the last three seasons.

[francesco totti]

Honestly, I do not rate this MVP league trophy as valuable as the all star one. For a simple reason, becoz this trophy is always handed to a player from wining team. if a player does everything the best but his players around him dont help him. and if that player team ends with a bad record then he wont win it.
This trophy isnt handed to the best player in nba but to the best player from wining team. Nash is the best player in suns which is the wining team so he is getting the trophy. But nash is not getting this trophy becoz his the best player in nba
I wouldnt put nash in my top 20 even..
Kobe or AI or LBJ are at least 3 times better then nash..
2 years back AI should have won the MVP..and last year it should have been handed to Kobe..

[EricForman]

kobe/laker fans shouldn't be allowed to post on any topics that is not about kobe or lakers. their viewpoints on anyone that's a threat to kobe is too ugly. Be it Nash, who is supposedly taking Kobe's MVPs (yeah right, Lebron or Dirk had a better case last year). Or Lebron/Wade who has taken Kobe's spot as a premiere swingman. :roll: To Jordan, who is basically the player Kobe tries to be, but Kobe to Jordan is like Patrick Ewing to Hakeem :roll:

[JtotheIzzo]

Honestly, I do not rate this MVP league trophy as valuable as the all star one. For a simple reason, becoz this trophy is always handed to a player from wining team. if a player does everything the best but his players around him dont help him. and if that player team ends with a bad record then he wont win it.
Exactly, because the league is about winning and any mediocre player can put up big stats on a crap ball club.


This trophy isnt handed to the best player in nba but to the best player from wining team.

Perhaps you'd prefer an end of season one on one competition?


I wouldnt put nash in my top 20 even..

Perhaps your parents dropped you when you were young?
Perhaps you don't own a TV?
Perhaps you are a retard?


Kobe or AI or LBJ are at least 3 times better then nash..

Perhaps you are a comedian...only three times? Why not five?


2 years back AI should have won the MVP..and last year it should have been handed to Kobe..
no I think I'll stick with the retard.


***feel free to say dumb shiiit for the whole year everyone. We have the worst post of 2007, there is no way you can possibly sound dumber than the above nonsense.

[francesco totti]

I hate canada, I hate nash, I hate jtotheizzo, I hate evryone who thinks nash is sthg good..his nthg but bull****..
screw nash, the worst player ever to get the MVP award..

FACT IS YOU MAY SAY NASH DESERVED IT..BUT FACT IS MOST PEOPLE WORLDWIDE DONT VIEW NASH AS AN MVP..HANDING NASH THE AWARD ONLY HURTS THE AWARD..AS NOW NO ONE GIVES THAT AWARD ANY IMPORTANCE ANYMORE
IF NASH IS SO MUCH OF A GREAT PLAYER LET HIM GET ONE ALL STAR MVP AWARD OR AT LEAST MAKE IT INTO STARTING 5 FOR ONCE IN HIS LIFE..
NASH IS THE MOST OVERRATED PLAYER IN NBA..

[JtotheIzzo]

Fact is writing in bold makes you look even more stupid, as oppose to angry.

I can feel your hate, you are a hater you can't help it.


FACT IS YOU MAY SAY NASH DESERVED IT
I never actually said that in the above post. There were five deserving people last year and one of them won it. Hardly a drama.


I hate canada
I hate fruity little kids who use flopping Italian soccer homosexuals as their user name.


I hate nash
Yeah I know, he doesn't even make your top twenty:lol:


IF NASH IS SO MUCH OF A GREAT PLAYER LET HIM GET ONE ALL STAR MVP AWARD OR AT LEAST MAKE IT INTO STARTING 5 FOR ONCE IN HIS LIFE..
like his all NBA first team the last two years? I don't get your point here, oh yeah, you are retarded, you cant help yourself from saying ridiculously false and painfully dumb things.


I hate jtotheizzo
he thinks your kind of cute, like Corky from that show that used to be on ABC on Sunday nights back in the day.

Congratulations Totti, you now have the number one and two worst posts of the year.:cheers:

[Heretik32]

JtotheIzzo putting down the hurt, and although I often don't agree with him, he's right on point on this one.:cheers:

[JtotheIzzo]

JtotheIzzo putting down the hurt, and although I often don't agree with him, he's right on point on this one.:cheers:

I thought we always agreed?

[francesco totti]

JtotheIzzo name me sthg nash earned by himself and not handed too him becoz of his team sucess..
All star mvp, heck his not getting more votes then kobe or AI or LBJ..
like it or not, think watever u want..but fans worldwide dont give a damn about nash..and handing him the league mvp award will only make less talk of that award and no one will look at it as an important award..
Nash is not a top 20 player, why is he the 44th money earner in NBA??
Who buys his shirts??
his not a great player, if nash was in a ****ty team unlike kobe or AI he would be forgotten and no one will hear his name

[bballer]

racist

[JtotheIzzo]

JtotheIzzo name me sthg nash earned by himself and not handed too him becoz of his team sucess..

first team all NBA back to back years?



All star mvp, heck his not getting more votes then kobe or AI or LBJ..

I don't even know how to reply to this...OMG!, no that doesn't work...you are a retard!....naw I've used that one too much, falk it...Look Totti, I actually feel guilty (because you are so simple), and annoyed (because you have wasted my time) discussing this with you any further.

NO ONE GIVES A FALK ABOUT THE ALL STAR GAME, AND THE PLAYERS CARE A LOT LESS THAN ANY FAN DOES. THE FALKING PLAYERS DONT EVEN TRY IN THE ALL STAR GAME FOR FALKSAKES UNLESS THEY ARE GOING UP FOR A DUNK. THE FACT THAT YOU VALUE IT SO MUch SHOWS EITHER
A. HOW VERY YOUNG AND NAIIVE YOU ARE OR
B. HOW LITTLE YOU KNOW ABOUT THE NBA.
c. HOW RETARDED YOU MAY BE

*bold letters are fun



like it or not, think watever u want..but fans worldwide dont give a damn about nash..

Yes, because a man of your infinite knowledge really has a bead on the pulse of global opinion.
STFU.

You are aware that everything you say in your posts are either:
-ridiculously biased opinion
-blatantly false commentary
-idioticy beyond belief



and handing him the league mvp award will only make less talk of that award and no one will look at it as an important award..
this is actually your best point, I think it isn't true, its not his fault the NBA is at a low point for talent right now (see team USA WC and Olympic results)



Nash is not a top 20 player,

When you are on here, and you read that you are a retard, you might want to consider it to be true and you really should visit a health care professional, there are special classes that you can enroll in which will help you lead a more normal life.



why is he the 44th money earner in NBA??
Who buys his shirts??


I can't tell which one of those is more ridiculous..you're a trip, are you sure you aren't GOBB or TMOGE in disguise having a go? I have a feeling this is a set up. No one could possibly be as analytically challenged as yourself.




his not a great player, if nash was in a ****ty team unlike kobe or AI he would be forgotten and no one will hear his name

Nash doesn't play on ****ty teams because he gets the best out of his teammates. that is why the suns went from 29-53 to 62-20 with him being the only player added. That is why a team with 50-60 wins is 3-8 without him in the lineup.

Look Totti, you're probably a good little boy who makes his mommy really proud on occasion, but you know sweet FA about basketball. Go find an Italian soccer webpage or something.

[MaxFly]

Dirk should've won MVP over Nash last year without a doubt


1. More winning
2. Worse Tammates (even at best)
3. Even/Better numbers

Completely agree Glove. I've been saying this all year, but I hope he wins it this year, even if another player is more deserving. The league really owes him. He played phenomenal ball last year and took Dallas to the finals, yet received no love for his excellent regular season.

[elementally morale]

Is it a coincedence that everyone in this thread who has bad things to say about Nash is a Laker fan? :confusedshrug:

:cheers:

Is it a coincidence that I'm a Laker fan and yet again I feel Nash deserves the award at the moment, even though I feel Kobe is in the race, provided the Lakers finish around 55 wins? (They are on a 53 win pace right now and playing w/o Kwame and Odom means he will lead the league in scoring again by the All Star break.)

Anyhow, big Laker fan and Kobe supporter here, who is leaning towards giving the MVP award to Nash if all teams keep up their present play.

[telephone]

totti isnt really making that much sense. Why would people care about the All-star game? People opt out to play in the all-star game just to not get injured.
All star game is just for fun so nobody really tries.


And tahts all i need to say i dont want to regurgitate some of the things izzo said

[PMshooter]

There's no-one playing better than Nash now, 1/3 of the way through the season. But even if he keeps it up, there's at least three guys, maybe four that are able of elevating their game above their current levels and above Steve's current level. Long way to go.

1. Kobe
2. LeBron
3. Dirk
4. Duncan?

[telephone]

I would say Dirk is elevating his game. He has become so clutch lately.

[elementally morale]

Let's be on topic.

What I think does the most damage to your views guys is that the MVP award is an individual award for the regular season, however only individuals playing on winning teams are about to get it.

If you try to summarize the anti-Nash comments, there are the following kinds:

1) Individually speaking there are better players than Nash (true)
2) The Suns are a good team with good players, so 'Nash's record' is inflated (true)
3) In the past there were better players (not) receiving the award (true)
4) Nash is yet to take his team to the Finals (true)

Let's see what it comes down to: Nash isn't deserving, because there are better players playing on worse regular season teams, going further in the playoffs, and ability- and/or production-wise he can't touch old-time MVPs or runner-ups who have won it all.

OK.

What are the flaws in these arguments?

a) Nash is a big part of the Suns being a good team, so his individual brilliance is enhanced by making his teammates and team a lot better
b) the past doesn't count, the award is given based on this year not last
c) Nash this year doesn't play any worse than Isiah Thomas, John Stockton or even Magic Johnson played in their PRIMES
d) the MVP is a regular season award
e) Nash winning it all this year would NOT make him a better player one bit, only more accomplished - thus having given him the MVP awards of the past would become justified all at once - and you know it

Simply put: Nash may be winning it again this year, because he plays phenomenal basketball, makes his team win and you don't have a better candidate this year, based on the regular season, while he is putting up crazy stats on the all-time level.

Discuss.

[PMshooter]

I think you're right on, EM.

[telephone]

But you also have to add that his stats are so amazing because of the system he is in. Just because he has amazing stats doesnt mean other players are helping their team out a whole lot. Like Tim Duncan he does A LOT in a little and helps his team win with tony and manu.

Dirk provides open lanes for Josh Howard to drive in and spreads the offense for shots taken by stack or howard and keeps the middle unclogged etc.

Just because nash has all these stats and playing amazing doesnt mean he helps his team more than Dirk or Duncan.

Although where you would have a case is the mavs without dirk are 2-0 with the wins against the nuggets and seattle who each had injured players.

[elementally morale]

But you also have to add that his stats are so amazing because of the system he is in.


But you also have to add that the system doesn't exist w/o Nash, either. As much as the system makes Nash, Nash makes the system. As much as his team makes him look better, he makes his team look better. One thing doesn't exist w/o the other.

And trust me, in case the Suns win it all this year and next, all 3 MVPs Nash would retire with would make him a top3 point guard all time. Easily. Who do we have now?

1) Magic
2) Oscar
3) Stockton
4) Isiah
5) Kidd/Payton

With two rings, Nash would blow Stockton, Isiah, Kidd and Payton away. Now, answer this: would 2 rings make Nash any better? Did Wade's ring of last year make him any better? Not at all. Only more accomplished. What made him better was his PLAY while getting that ring.

Focus on play. Not accomplishments. The disturbing thing with the MVP award is that it says it focuses on individual play AND team accomplishment. And when thinking about accomplishment, we have a tendency to think of 'winning it all' - and that's when the term 'regular season' comes into the equation.

The MVP award is a silly award. I personally hate it. I don't think it means or measures anything, really.

[telephone]

good point and you are right. That wouldnt make him better.

But all i am saying is that Nash's stats are so illuminated because of the stats he has. OF course the system is made for him and it is the system that works best.

But to me there are other systems that work around great players like Dirk and Duncan that work just as well and even better than the suns. (Mavs are 2-0 against suns this season)

So as a benefit of such a high octance offense his stats are inflated a whole lot more than the system of Dirk and Duncan who do other things to helpe his team win that arent necessarily reflected in stats. Do you know what I mean?

[adamcz]

Nash is the only point guard capable of running the Suns the way they're run. The Raptors tried to recreate it with TJ Ford who seemed like a great candidate, but they quickly found they had to slow the pace down to win. Somebody in this thread said that Kidd could do it, but half of Nash's assists come from those pick and roll bounce passes which wouldn't be open to Kidd (with the defense slacking off of him). Chris Paul? He already has talented scorers around him, so he should be doing it right now if he's that good (or at least should have been before Peja got hurt).

[elementally morale]

But all i am saying is that Nash's stats are so illuminated because of the stats he has. OF course the system is made for him and it is the system that works best.

But to me there are other systems that work around great players like Dirk and Duncan that work just as well and even better than the suns. (Mavs are 2-0 against suns this season)

So as a benefit of such a high octance offense his stats are inflated a whole lot more than the system of Dirk and Duncan who do other things to helpe his team win that arent necessarily reflected in stats. Do you know what I mean?

I do.

I have some counter-arguments, though. Remember the Showtime Lakers? Was Magic a 'result of the system'? Or was the system a result of Magic? Those lakers scored a lot of points, and I think we can all agree on one thing: Magic had better teammates than Nash has. Yet, nash's numbers this year are very well comparable to Magic's of the past, rebounding aside (but Magic was like half a foot taller).

Play the same game with Isiah, Bird or even Jordan. They made the system? The system made them? They all had better teammates than Nash has now. As far as accomplishments go, you will not win it all without good enough teammates, and you will never be 'accomplished' yourself if your TEAM fails to win it (all).

You can NEVER get accomplished as an individual, and you also can't make your team get the accomplishments for you if you are not a good enough individual. Hence the only thing Nash needs is 2 rings. It's not at all likely he will get them. But once he has (would)... you know the rest.

[telephone]

adamcz he has david west and peja out. David west is his main man too and a dominant PF

Are you trying to say Nash made the system or the system made nash?
Sorry i didnt pick up on it.
No i dont remember the showtime lakers cus i was 0-3 yrs old than.

I thought we were forgetting the past too like you said in your other post?

Ok i just reread the last part I i think you are saying NASH MADE THE SYSTEM and Dirk did not.

[adamcz]

There's so much parity in the league this year, I think the Suns have as much of a shot as anyone to win the title. I'd give even odds to Spurs, Mavs and Suns. 3 or 4 other teams have a realistic shot too.

[KWALI]

Nash is the only point guard capable of running the Suns the way they're run. The Raptors tried to recreate it with TJ Ford who seemed like a great candidate, but they quickly found they had to slow the pace down to win. Somebody in this thread said that Kidd could do it, but half of Nash's assists come from those pick and roll bounce passes which wouldn't be open to Kidd (with the defense slacking off of him). Chris Paul? He already has talented scorers around him, so he should be doing it right now if he's that good (or at least should have been before Peja got hurt).

AI is gonna be doing it as soon as the Nuggets get back to full strength.....He's already been putting up gawdy assist and efficientcy numbers up in philly and Denver....

Oh the reason the Suns work is NASH shooting plus Marion, Amare, Barbosa and Diaw not just NASh do you guys remember who averaged double digit assists b4 NASh...Andre Miller..you think he could do that with the teamates I just mentioned....don't be ridiculous... You think those passes he makes to Amare and Marion are caught by other fours and fives? You smoking kid those bounce passes below the knees are caught by one center in this league and a couple of PF's reliabley. those alleys are caught by VC...STRO SHOW...and that Sonics guy reliabley you gotta be a real athlete to get those reliabley and run the floor....Just as with Kidd withthe Nets it is not all NASH


The reason TJ Ford wasn't affective is the Raptors only have one front court athlete......watch TJ's communication with Rasho now it's much better and he gets three or four but replace Rasho and Garbahosa with two athletes and TJ would be killing withthe assists and the running game would be crazy......

[KWALI]

I do.

I have some counter-arguments, though. Remember the Showtime Lakers? Was Magic a 'result of the system'? Or was the system a result of Magic? Those lakers scored a lot of points, and I think we can all agree on one thing: Magic had better teammates than Nash has. Yet, nash's numbers this year are very well comparable to Magic's of the past, rebounding aside (but Magic was like half a foot taller).

Play the same game with Isiah, Bird or even Jordan. They made the system? The system made them? They all had better teammates than Nash has now. As far as accomplishments go, you will not win it all without good enough teammates, and you will never be 'accomplished' yourself if your TEAM fails to win it (all).

You can NEVER get accomplished as an individual, and you also can't make your team get the accomplishments for you if you are not a good enough individual. Hence the only thing Nash needs is 2 rings. It's not at all likely he will get them. But once he has (would)... you know the rest.

Glove 20 has done this 1000 times already but compare Nash with KEVIN JOHNSON pre Barkleyt in PHX......you'll find KEVIN JOHNSON did everything that Nash is doing now EVERYTHING....with comparable teamates DIaw --Tom Chambers....Hornacek ... Bell .....Thunder Dan...Marion.....

They aren't comparable in talants but in overall value very close....

So I don't see how Nash gets compared to Finals MVP's when ther closest comparision is a guy who never won an MVP and p[layed for the same team.....The argument should be is he better than KJ...when he gets past that then we can talk about Magic etc.......

Also consider the Lakers played much better teams than teh Suns do....compared to the competition Nash team is just as good as teh SHowtime lakers....

[yelk]

ppl cant ****ing read. the past doesnt count. EM said it. y would u compare nash to any player in the past? last 2 mvps could be the worst mvps in ur opinion, if ud like to call it, but it wouldnt change the fact that it was given to the player(nash) who desrved it the most among the candidates at that time. and nash having won the award twice and back to back doesnt make him any better than kj, stockton, bird or magic.

[Smokee]

theres no point to make people who dont watch believe. I GUARANTEE you if you watched Nash regularly most of you would believe in him or at least not be able to keep doubting him like i used to. Part of the problem is more than half of ISH doesnt watch games or alot of players play with any regularity, then theres the other part called being a hater.

anyway, Nash IS the best player in the league. Yeah i've WATCHED Duncan, Garnett, Nowitzki, etc, etc. all play many times this year and nobody impresses or does more than Nash. All of you point to one shot in one game, or some stupid championship bull**** to measure a player when half that **** amounts to isolated incidents/luck. If you want reality, you watch them play from game to game, none of this stupid rings BS, or gamewinner buzzerbeaters actinig like things couldnt have gone either way. Reality is Nash, year after year, continues to prove the doubters wrong who keep doubting because they think no way is some lil white boy who runs up and down the court like a lil kid an MVP. too bad he is and deserves it more than anyone in the league today :pimp:

[Number2]

Someone just sort of casually asserted that Nash isn't even a top ten PG yet... I mean, really? Let's name 10 better PGs in no particular order...

All right, Stockton, Magic, Thomas, Robertson (maybe a PG), Maravich (also a maybe), GP, Kidd, Hardaway and...? Who else? That's all I can come up with off the top of my head and many of those are debatable. Don't forget that Nash has been a top player for quite a while at his position and not just the sudden prodigy he's become with the Suns.

[Laker Logic]

bexause of this in 20 years people will look back and actually argue about who was better in their prime between Nash and Bird or Magic or Isiah.

No they won't, unless and until Nash leads Phoenix or some other team to a ring or rings. There's a reason they distinguish between regular season and Finals MVP's, and I don't really get why some people are so dead set against Nash winning regular season awards when he's so clearly the hub that the entire Suns system revolves around. Doesn't mean he's head and shoulders above other reg season MVP candidates but he's got as good a case as anyone else.

Some other points;

People arguing that Shaq should have won regular season MVP's for basically every season he's played obviously don't remember or didn't watch Shaq repeatedly coasting and saving himself in the regular season and saving his most dominant performances for the playoffs/finals. Even today some Heat fans (pre-injury) argued he was just saving himself for the postseason. As a Lakers fan I'm full aware of how much a healthy and assertive Shaq can mean to a team's success, but no one, including Shaq, is so valuable just by virtue of being on the floor that they should win an MVP just by being on the floor and passively creating opportunities for others. It should be an award for what a player actively does, and it's why Shaq doesn't have more regular season MVP's.

Yes, Nash is a system player, and no, that doesn't mean he shouldn't qualify for the MVP. Again, he pretty much is the system, and if you have a problem with that you can take solace that it's the same scoring-heavy, run and gun, shaky defense system that will continue to rack up regular season wins and continue to fall short in the postseason and prevent him from winning a chip or a Finals MVP. So relax, he's not on the Bird/Magic/Shaq level and no one, now or 20 years from now, will be confused into thinking otherwise. Let the guy rack up his regular season awards and flame out in the playoffs, there's really no harm in it.

[RidonKs]

Yes, Nash is a system player, and no, that doesn't mean he shouldn't qualify for the MVP. Again, he pretty much is the system, and if you have a problem with that you can take solace that it's the same scoring-heavy, run and gun, shaky defense system that will continue to rack up regular season wins and continue to fall short in the postseason and prevent him from winning a chip or a Finals MVP.

My sentiments exactly. Sure he thrives because of the system he's in, but does that mean the system should be taken out of the equation in his arguments for MVP? The obvious answer is no.

[Jailblazers7]

I see what people mean when they say he was the worst MVP and it will look ridiculous in the record book if he wins 3 straight MVP's. He is prob the worst player out of the past MVP winners and he can not compare to past multiple winners like Kareem, MJ, Magic, and Bird but that is irrelevant to this season. IF he is the best player this year then he deserves to win it regardless of the last two years. I dont feel he should have won it last year but he did so we should just put that behind us would it really be fair to not give it to him this year just because it would be his 3rd in a row even if he is the most deserving?

[Glove_20]

Nash isn't even a Top 10 PG of All-Time right now


Payton
Kidd
KJ
Stockton
Magic
Big O
Frazier
DJ
Isiah
Cousy


all have done more than Nash...Nash and MVP just don't go

[Jailblazers7]

Nash isn't even a Top 10 PG of All-Time right now


Payton
Kidd
KJ
Stockton
Magic
Big O
Frazier
DJ
Isiah
Cousy


all have done more than Nash...Nash and MVP just don't go

It doesnt matter what he ranks all-time it matter how he ranks this year.

[Glove_20]

It doesnt matter what he ranks all-time it matter how he ranks this year.
Well its kind of sad we are talking about Nash getting his 3rd MVP, while he isn't even a Top 10 PG of all-time

He didn't deserve MVP last year...Dirk did, explained a million times

[Jailblazers7]

Well its kind of sad we are talking about Nash getting his 3rd MVP, while he isn't even a Top 10 PG of all-time

He didn't deserve MVP last year...Dirk did, explained a million times


I agree with you both ways it is sad and neither do i believe he deserved it last year. But if he is the best player at the end of this year then he deserves the award.

[EricForman]

Well its kind of sad we are talking about Nash getting his 3rd MVP, while he isn't even a Top 10 PG of all-time

He didn't deserve MVP last year...Dirk did, explained a million times


Like I said earlier, Nash winning three times MVP would be pretty sick, simply because of the fact that 20 years later, when people loko back at MVP list, people that didn't watch the game but only see the list will believe Nash to be better than Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Garnett, and rank Nash on Magic/Bird/Jordan level.

BUT.... it's about time we all stop the "he shouldn't have won any MVP" talk. Maybe he shouldn't have won 2 years straight or probably 3 straight, but now he probably deserves credit for at least one.

Personallly, I am still stunned by what has happened. Just back in 04, Nash wasn't even considered anywhere near Dirk's level. Bibby torches him on the regular in the playoffs, Nash was merely a "good player" around the Rashard Lewis, Mehmet Okur level.... then a year later, suddenly, dude starts dropping Magic Johnson numbers in the playoffs against his old team Mavs (hitting clutch shots over Dirk left and right too), next year, leads a different cast to 50+ wins and another WCF finals run. This year averaging 20 11 3 on 53% FG, 50% 3PT, and 90% from the line!

[Glove_20]

Like I said earlier, Nash winning three times MVP would be pretty sick, simply because of the fact that 20 years later, when people loko back at MVP list, people that didn't watch the game but only see the list will believe Nash to be better than Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Garnett, and rank Nash on Magic/Bird/Jordan level.

BUT.... it's about time we all stop the "he shouldn't have won any MVP" talk. Maybe he shouldn't have won 2 years straight or probably 3 straight, but now he probably deserves credit for at least one.
He deserved the 1st one
Not the 2nd one


And I am sure they won't give him this one, just cuz he won it twice already

[EricForman]

He deserved the 1st one
Not the 2nd one


And I am sure they won't give him this one, just cuz he won it twice already


I agree that Nash shouldn't have won last year over Dirk. But say if season ended today, or if Nash keeps up this pace and no one really steps up (meaning Lebron's still missing FTs and stats drop off, Arenas still on mediocre team, Kobe's Lakers still playing better when he MISSES GAMES, TD still deferring to Tony Parker just to save energy)... then Nash deserves to win this year. But I am feeling he won't because the league knows Nash having three straight is a bit too ridiculous (it would seemingly put him in the Magic/Bird/Jordan level of greatness).

That would be a flawed logic though. The whole "make up for past mistakes" system. A perfect example is the Academy Awards. In 2000, Russell Crowe won Best Actor for Gladiator over Denzel in Hurricane. Gladiator was nothing but a glorified action flick while Hurricane was a legit flick, Denzel should have won. The Academy KNEW THIS, so next year, they made up for it by giving Denzel Best Actor for Training Day over Crowe for Beautiful Mind. Now I'm sure all the brothas will disagree, but Crowe's performance in Beautiful Mind was considered a lock to win the award, on top of that, Denzel has had better performances than his Training Day performance. So Denzel winning it over Crowe in 2001 is the Academy's way of "making up" for last year's mistakes. Basically, in 2000, Denzel should have won but Crowe screwed him, then next year, it was reversed.

[Comedy Central]

Glove 20 has done this 1000 times already but compare Nash with KEVIN JOHNSON pre Barkleyt in PHX......you'll find KEVIN JOHNSON did everything that Nash is doing now EVERYTHING....with comparable teamates DIaw --Tom Chambers....Hornacek ... Bell .....Thunder Dan...Marion.....


Exactly, even at this stage of his career, Nash shouldn't be compared to anything better than a prime Kevin Johnson: in terms of talent they are pretty close except that Nash shoots better while KJ was a lot more athletic; stats wise they are almost the same for both having 20ppg+ 10apg+seasons.

And just to add a little extra info: Kevin Johnson played mainly in the 90's, an era during which the intensity of the defence of the game went totally off the charts, he had to face more defence-oriented teams and "defence friendly" rules (handchecking, no moving screen for example), yet he averaged even better stats than the prime Nash we see today. To be honest I don't think Nash would be able to average anything better than 14ppg, 7apg if he was thrown back to the mid-90's, even with that system.

[i seen hippos]

Kevin Johnson is more athletic.....is that supposed to mean something?

[Comedy Central]

Kevin Johnson is more athletic.....is that supposed to mean something?

Tell me what makes Dwight Howard better than Chris Kaman.

[BlackVVaves]

Change best with most valuable and I agree.
:cheers:

[Serge]

Okay first year Nash won the MVP AI should have won it his team made the playoffs even.

2nd year he won it (last year) Lebron or Kobe should have won it not Nash.

This year he is doing great, and I would vote for him as MVP right now.

But if AI brings his shooting % up, and get's his assists up, and his scoring does not go down way to much and there team gets to 50 wins I would say vote for AI for MVP cause if his team get's the wins, and he is putting up better #'s how are people going to explain not voting for AI?

[statman32]

Okay first year Nash won the MVP AI should have won it his team made the playoffs even.

2nd year he won it (last year) Lebron or Kobe should have won it not Nash.

This year he is doing great, and I would vote for him as MVP right now.

But if AI brings his shooting % up, and get's his assists up, and his scoring does not go down way to much and there team gets to 50 wins I would say vote for AI for MVP cause if his team get's the wins, and he is putting up better #'s how are people going to explain not voting for AI?
lol whoa the first year nash got it...iverson lead his team to the playoffs...damn thats pretty impressive lol

and iverson only has to do 4 things to win the mvp...I think I can name quite a few players that if they and their team did 4 things better they would win the mvp

thats like saying if ray allen ups his fg% scores more points and leads his team to 60 wins that he should win the mvp

[EricForman]

Okay first year Nash won the MVP AI should have won it his team made the playoffs even.




I'm a big AI fan myself... but Um.....NO.

AI made the playoffs two years ago as an 8th seed that got whupped/destroyed/embarassed in the first round.

Yes, AI did put up some amazing 32/8 numbers but if you go strictly by numbers then either Lebron or Kobe would win MVP for the next 5 years and guys like Duncan would never be considered.

Now this is not a diss at AI, but so far he's what, like 2 and 3 on the Nuggets? So let's drop the crap about AI for MVP. I'm a AI fan myself but let's be realistic. Let's say if Melo comes back, the Nuggets starts rolling and finish the season hot, then that would probably give the impression that Melo should be MVP, not AI. So either way, AI's chances at MVP this year is slim to none.

You're obviously an AI fan but let's not get carried away. AI isn't even among the top 5, 6, 7, 8 players this year in the running of MVP. Not when his Sixers were horrible to start the season, then with him going 2-5 on the Nuggets. Again, no diss at AI, I understand the Nuggets are undermanned and once Melo comes back they should be pretty good, but how exactlydoes that translates into "AI deserves MVP", I do not know.


But if AI brings his shooting % up, and get's his assists up, and his scoring does not go down way to much and there team gets to 50 wins I would say vote for AI for MVP cause if his team get's the wins, and he is putting up better #'s how are people going to explain not voting for AI?


If Erick Dampier ups his FG% by 30%, increase his PPG by 11 points, developes three point range, develope Jason Kidd court vision people should not only give him the MVP, he should knock off Mike as the GOAT.

[Serge]

lol whoa the first year nash got it...iverson lead his team to the playoffs...damn thats pretty impressive lol

and iverson only has to do 4 things to win the mvp...I think I can name quite a few players that if they and their team did 4 things better they would win the mvp

thats like saying if ray allen ups his fg% scores more points and leads his team to 60 wins that he should win the mvp

Not my point AI only averaged 3 assists less then Nash that year yet averaged double Nash's points. And better in steals he deff should have won it that year he finished 4th.

4 things learn to read. Get his shooting % better and he will once starters come back. And asssists and he will once starters come back 2 things. They will get to 50 wins I think easy with out any more injurys.

No you don't get my point. If he shoots better, and get's better with assists he should win it.

[EricForman]

Not my point AI only averaged 3 assists less then Nash that year yet averaged double Nash's points. And better in steals he deff should have won it that year he finished 4th.
.


Dude.... AI's team missed the playoffs last year, they were a GIANT DISAPPOINTMENT given how weak the East is. Please, stop turning this into "Iverson should have been a contender for the MVP last year but was robbed by Nash".

Only person who can make a case for deserving the MVP more than Nash last year are Lebron (50 wins, amazing 31 7 7 numbers, carrying huge load with mediocre cast) and Dirk (second best record in the league, great numbers)




No you don't get my point. If he shoots better, and get's better with assists he should win it

1: Right now the Nuggets are pretty mediocre, if they start winning once Melo comes back.... really, how does that MAKE A CASE FOR IVERSON= MVP?????

2: You really think Iverson still has a shot this season despite the first 3 months of the season being tainted already? His Sixers stinking... the whole trade fiasco.... come on man. Iverson is a great player but this season, so far, Boozer/Duncan/Dirk/Nash/Lebron/Kobe/Odom/Arenas/Yao all have better cases than AI for MVP.

You're a fan, it's ok. But stop hallucinating. Only way AI has a shot at MVP is if the Nuggets ROLL (and I mean roll, something ridiculous like they finish the rest of the season 35 and 5 or something) AND some kind of example of AI's contributions will be needed, like say the Nuggets are rolling with a 13 game winning streak, then AI misses three games and the Nuggets loses all three.... only if one of those incidents happens, along with a ridiculous end to the season by the Nuggets will AI have a shot at MVP.

[statman32]

Not my point AI only averaged 3 assists less then Nash that year yet averaged double Nash's points. And better in steals he deff should have won it that year he finished 4th.

4 things learn to read. Get his shooting % better and he will once starters come back. And asssists and he will once starters come back 2 things. They will get to 50 wins I think easy with out any more injurys.

No you don't get my point. If he shoots better, and get's better with assists he should win it.
stats dont matter to much when considering mvp...the suns went 62-20 that year after missing the playoffs the year before...the sixers were the 8th seed in the weak east

and lol i can read and here are the FOUR things you said need to happen for him to win mvp

1. his fg% go up
2. his assists go up
3. his scoring does not go down
4. nuggets win 50 games

[Serge]

I'm a big AI fan myself... but Um.....NO.

AI made the playoffs two years ago as an 8th seed that got whupped/destroyed/embarassed in the first round.

The MVP is reguler season for one. And actually that year we did not get killed we fought DET the team who ended up winning it all. The series they won in 5-6 games. They all most had it tight up at 2-2 they fought DET hard actually.

Yes, AI did put up some amazing 32/8 numbers but if you go strictly by numbers then either Lebron or Kobe would win MVP for the next 5 years and guys like Duncan would never be considered.

Kobe/Lebron did not have those #'s then. AI put up only 3 assists less, but doubled Nash poit average, and was better in steals.

Now this is not a diss at AI, but so far he's what, like 2 and 3 on the Nuggets? So let's drop the crap about AI for MVP. I'm a AI fan myself but let's be realistic. Let's say if Melo comes back, the Nuggets starts rolling and finish the season hot, then that would probably give the impression that Melo should be MVP, not AI. So either way, AI's chances at MVP this year is slim to none.

Actully your worng if AI get's his assists way up, are putting #'s up better then Nash in some ways and the team wins how can you not give it to AI? Right now until Camby came back last game he had 0 starters with him what do you want Jordan can't even win with Diawara or w/e starting. LMAO

If you wanna say AI would have Melo thats why they started doing good then how about Nash having Amare, and Marion so don't tell me who AI would have.

You're obviously an AI fan but let's not get carried away. AI isn't even among the top 5, 6, 7, 8 players this year in the running of MVP. Not when his Sixers were horrible to start the season, then with him going 2-5 on the Nuggets. Again, no diss at AI, I understand the Nuggets are undermanned and once Melo comes back they should be pretty good, but how exactlydoes that translates into "AI deserves MVP", I do not know.

Sixers sucked and I am talking about Denver. And here as a Nugget he will start being talked about for MVP. Also they are like 2-3 with AI not 2-5 not sure what you talking about. And there is no one that can win with Diawara ect starting even those guys who are top of MVP talks now.


If Erick Dampier ups his FG% by 30%, increase his PPG by 11 points, developes three point range, develope Jason Kidd court vision people should not only give him the MVP, he should knock off Mike as the GOAT.

WTF your totally missing the point that is why you need to learn more. I did not say scoring, % by 30#. I said % a little, and get's his assists up and he will there is not reason he should not win it.

[Serge]

Dude.... AI's team missed the playoffs last year, they were a GIANT DISAPPOINTMENT given how weak the East is. Please, stop turning this into "Iverson should have been a contender for the MVP last year but was robbed by Nash".

Listen you f*cking idiot I said the year before that when Nash won his first MVP. Last season Lebron, and Kobe learn to f*cking read.

Only person who can make a case for deserving the MVP more than Nash last year are Lebron (50 wins, amazing 31 7 7 numbers, carrying huge load with mediocre cast) and Dirk (second best record in the league, great numbers)


Again I was talking about the year before. And if you learned how to read you would see I said the year before that and last year I was saying lebron and Kobe.

1: Right now the Nuggets are pretty mediocre, if they start winning once Melo comes back.... really, how does that MAKE A CASE FOR IVERSON= MVP?????

If he makes Melo, JR, better players. And get's shooting % up a little, and assists up by making those guys better that's how.

2: You really think Iverson still has a shot this season despite the first 3 months of the season being tainted already? His Sixers stinking... the whole trade fiasco.... come on man. Iverson is a great player but this season, so far, Boozer/Duncan/Dirk/Nash/Lebron/Kobe/Odom/Arenas/Yao all have better cases than AI for MVP.

2 months not 3 November, and December. And he still did great when playing it's the whole season not just less then half of it. And Odom please say your joking cause you got to be kidding with Odom. Yea Odom did great so far this season, but MVP my nuts.

You're a fan, it's ok. But stop hallucinating. Only way AI has a shot at MVP is if the Nuggets ROLL (and I mean roll, something ridiculous like they finish the rest of the season 35 and 5 or something) AND some kind of example of AI's contributions will be needed, like say the Nuggets are rolling with a 13 game winning streak, then AI misses three games and the Nuggets loses all three.... only if one of those incidents happens, along with a ridiculous end to the season by the Nuggets will AI have a shot at MVP.

And again I know it be hard for AI to win I never said it be easy. But still very possible. And the Nuggets finished season of 2 seasons ago I think 20-3 so it's possible to have a big run.

[Serge]

stats dont matter to much when considering mvp...the suns went 62-20 that year after missing the playoffs the year before...the sixers were the 8th seed in the weak east

and lol i can read and here are the FOUR things you said need to happen for him to win mvp

1. his fg% go up
2. his assists go up
3. his scoring does not go down
4. nuggets win 50 games

2 Years ago East was not that weak, and I thik we had the 7th seat, and DET had the 2nd seat when we lost to them in the first round.

I said fg% and assists. And socring I did not say stay the same or go up I said does not go down to much thats not something he needs to get better at like you said before. 50 games win is a lock if everyone stays healthy once the suspention is over. So 2 things man not 4.

[EricForman]

serge.... you don't even know how to quote correctly. You quote your own stuff and just bold it? WTF?

No need to get all defensive and start cussing just cause I don't believe Iverson's a MVP candidate this year. Calm down clown.

[Serge]

serge.... you don't even know how to quote correctly. You quote your own stuff and just bold it? WTF?

No need to get all defensive and start cussing just cause I don't believe Iverson's a MVP candidate this year. Calm down clown.

I bold my answer to you for each thing.

And I am not cursing about this year really I agree it eb hard this year not inpossible though.

I got more mad about 2 years ago cause he clearly that year should have won it not be 4th. I got mad cause people think I am talking last year. And last year I was saying Lebron/Kobe should have won instead of Nash. AI I was talking about 2 years ago when Nash won his first MVP not about last year yet people say last season they missed the playoffs in the weak east when Iw as not even talking about last year but the year before.

[statman32]

50 wins in the west is actually pretty hard...denver is not a lock toget 50 wins when everyone gets back

4 things that need to HAPPEN for ai and the nuggets is a lot...you are reaching there cause you are such a iverson fan

[Serge]

50 wins in the west is actually pretty hard...denver is not a lock toget 50 wins when everyone gets back

4 things that need to HAPPEN for ai and the nuggets is a lot...you are reaching there cause you are such a iverson fan

What 4 things you talking about all AI has to do is shoot better and get his assists up? And I am not saying AI is locked to win MVP this year all I said is he has a shot as much as any other player who is in the race right now.

My main point from the first post was about 2 years ago AI should have won not Nash instead AI got 4th. And last year Lebron, or Kobe should have won not Nash. That was my main points yet someone things I am saying AI should have won it last year when I am not sayig that I said 2 years ago. Last season I was saying Lebron/Kobe.

[statman32]

by the way there is no way iverson should have won the mvp two years ago

nash 15.5ppg 11.5 apg 3.3 rpg 50.2 fg 88.7 ft% 1.0 spg 3.27 tpg suns 62-20 after missing the playoffs the year before...suns also had a strech where they did horrible when he was out and i believe they even got blown out by the pistons when he was out which does not happen in the suns/nash era

iverson 30.7 ppg 7.9 apg 4.0 rpg 42.4 fg% 83.5 ft% 2.4 spg 4.59tpg sixers went 43-39 which was a decent 10 game improvement

nash also went 43.1 3pt% while iverson was 30.8

while iverson has a huge advantage in ppg and even spg nash is better at apg,fg%,ft%,3pt%,tpg

steve nash was alot more productive on a great team that improved by 33 games

[JtotheIzzo]

These threads are tired.

groupies in all form come out to diss Nash.

They read people like Bill Simmons (they actually think he is smart) and have very little knowledge of the game. They wouldn't understand Nash because he isn't pumped, black, or a great jumper so they automatically assume the guy with hops or who is more 'hood is better.

It is a facile analogy because they are just stupid people and more a fan of certain players and the image they project as oppose to knowledgeable observers of the game.

If you haven't at least played at a decent high school with respect to ball, STFU when talking about Nash.

Why is he so good?

Errorless execution and he's a complete slave to team play.

Why do some people think that makes him MVP?

Because no one else does it.

You can front on his career all you want, he is still learning the game. He wasn't good early in his career but he has made adjustments and now is willing to make others look great to enhance his team's chances.

Oh, but Jizzo, the Suns haven't won a championship, how can Nash be an MVP?
(I love this simpleton argument too)

lets look at the facts shall we. he inherits a 29 win team, takes them to the WCF (despite injured starters, of whose slack he picked up btw)two years in a row when they NBA looks like this:
WEST>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>EAST
Most teams and GM schemes operate on three year plans, and this is year three, and now it is all coming together so to speak.

Others could have won MVP last year, but you wont find consensus on just one guy, so it wasn't like a travesty, get over it.

[Serge]

by the way there is no way iverson should have won the mvp two years ago

nash 15.5ppg 11.5 apg 3.3 rpg 50.2 fg 88.7 ft% 1.0 spg 3.27 tpg suns 62-20 after missing the playoffs the year before...suns also had a strech where they did horrible when he was out and i believe they even got blown out by the pistons when he was out which does not happen in the suns/nash era

iverson 30.7 ppg 7.9 apg 4.0 rpg 42.4 fg% 83.5 ft% 2.4 spg 4.59tpg sixers went 43-39 which was a decent 10 game improvement

nash also went 43.1 3pt% while iverson was 30.8

while iverson has a huge advantage in ppg and even spg nash is better at apg,fg%,ft%,3pt%,tpg

steve nash was alot more productive on a great team that improved by 33 games

That is why the voters made it such a close voting AI finsihed 4th, but the stuff was very close.

Iverson doubled the point, was better in steals, and rebounds.

And Nash had Marion, and Amare also who I call stars who did AI have?

I see why he won it, and Shaq was close 2nd cause there teams won so many games once they came to there new team. But AI still I think shoudl have won it 2 years ago I think.

[statman32]

That is why the voters made it such a close voting AI finsihed 4th, but the stuff was very close.

Iverson doubled the point, was better in steals, and rebounds.

And Nash had Marion, and Amare also who I call stars who did AI have?

I see why he won it, and Shaq was close 2nd cause there teams won so many games once they came to there new team. But AI still I think shoudl have won it 2 years ago I think.
the voting between nash and iverson was far from close...nash had 65 first place votes and iverson had 2

by the way rebounds was pretty much the same...

Im just trying to help you be a lil less of a iverson homer...

[Serge]

These threads are tired.

groupies in all form come out to diss Nash.

WTF are you talking about Is aid so far Nash is the MVP this year how am I a Nash hater? Last year Lebron and Kobe should have won it clearly a lot of people agreed there were up there so I am not the only one. And 2 years ago AI I think should have won it, and clearly some agreed cause AI finished 4th in voting 2 years ago. So don't act like I am speaking out of my *ss.

They read people like Bill Simmons (they actually think he is smart) and have very little knowledge of the game. They wouldn't understand Nash because he isn't pumped, black, or a great jumper so they automatically assume the guy with hops or who is more 'hood is better.

I am white............And again I said this year Nash so far I think is the MVP with Yao I think at 2nd, and Melo 3rd. So why would I put him first this year if I harted him?

It is a facile analogy because they are just stupid people and more a fan of certain players and the image they project as oppose to knowledgeable observers of the game.

This year I said Nash so far is the MVP I said AI had a chance still as much as any guy that's all. And last year I said Lebron or Kobe should have won it not AI so don't tell me I say something just cause they are my fav player.

If you haven't at least played at a decent high school with respect to ball, STFU when talking about Nash.

I respect Nash or I would not have said he is MVP so far this season.

Why is he so good?

Errorless execution and he's a complete slave to team play.

Why do some people think that makes him MVP?

Because no one else does it.

You can front on his career all you want, he is still learning the game. He wasn't good early in his career but he has made adjustments and now is willing to make others look great to enhance his team's chances.

Oh, but Jizzo, the Suns haven't won a championship, how can Nash be an MVP?
(I love this simpleton argument too)

lets look at the facts shall we. he inherits a 29 win team, takes them to the WCF (despite injured starters, of whose slack he picked up btw)two years in a row when they NBA looks like this:
WEST>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>EAST
Most teams and GM schemes operate on three year plans, and this is year three, and now it is all coming together so to speak.

Others could have won MVP last year, but you wont find consensus on just one guy, so it wasn't like a travesty, get over it.

Last year actually I think it was even a worse vote then the year AI did not win it 2 years ago you could have argued Nash/Shaq/Dirk/AI it was all close.

Last year Lebron 30/7/7 should clearly have won it and they went to the playoffs for those who have to have that happen. And Kobe took a team of no body to the playoffs.

[Serge]

the voting between nash and iverson was far from close...nash had 65 first place votes and iverson had 2

by the way rebounds was pretty much the same...

Im just trying to help you be a lil less of a iverson homer...

Listen I am not a AI homer I am a huge AI fan, but if I was just a homer I would have said AI should have won it last year. I said Lebron 30/7/7 and playoffs should had have him win last year, or Kobe team of nobody to the playoffs.

And I don't hate Nash cause I did say so far Nash should be the MVP. I would not have said that if I hated Nash.

[statman32]

i never said you hated nash...and you kinda are a borderline iverson homer...lol if you would have said he should have won it last year than you would be a for sure one

anyways mvps arent won by leading the league in scoring or putting up the best stats....its won by being a efficent player and being valuable to a GREAT team

[Howard5Dirk41]

no hes not

[Serge]

i never said you hated nash...and you kinda are a borderline iverson homer...lol if you would have said he should have won it last year than you would be a for sure one

anyways mvps arent won by leading the league in scoring or putting up the best stats....its won by being a efficent player and being valuable to a GREAT team

I am not a AI homer at all. I pretty much speak what I think is the truth. AI having lots of turnovers here in Denver so far I talked about that being bad just as much as I did about his passing skills when he was getting those 10 assists.

Like I said it's one thing if I just said the AI think about 2 years ago I said the same about Lebron/Kobe who I thought should have both won it last year before Nash.

But me and you I guess have diff views on MVP also. I think why should you not be praised, and rewarded for being good if you just don't have talent around you. Like get what I mean? Like is it your fault the gm is not putting the right guys around you when your doing everything every night out there to win yet there is simply not enough talent around you to do so.

That all I think.

[EricForman]

The thing is, as an AI fan, you really sholdn't be bitter, AI already has one MVP, which is something Kobe may never do, Tmac probably for sure will never do, there are PLENTY, PLENTY of "big time talents" who has never won an MVP, GP, Webber, Pippen. AI actually has one despite never being on any "powerhouse teams" the way Webber, GP, Pip or even Dirk was. (the 01 team was a hard working overachieving bunch, let's not get carried away and say they were a powerhouse)

And now again, please don't take this as a diss to Iverson, I'm the first to defend Iverson on any Iverson vs Kobe debate because Iverson has never had anyone remotely 1/3 as good as prime Shaq. BUT last two years, with Iggy, Webber, Dalembert, Korver, it really wasn't that bad, and I feel they did underachieve.

Iverson having only one MVP is hardly an injustice. His prime just happened to clash with the primes of Duncan and Shaq, two of the greatest winners of ALL TIME, Shaq is top 6 player all time and Duncan is top 15.

Jason Kidd fans should complain about Kidd not having an MVP, Dirk fans have a case last year, but Iverson fans? Let it go you guys got one already.

The fact is besidse 01 I don't even freaking remember any "memorable playoff run" from Iverson. Nash had two monster runs the last two years. Let it go, Steve Nash is better than alot people give hi mcredit for.

[hotsizzle]

Im confused. Eric Foreman is arguing with himself??? saying Iverson is MVP worthy and then arguing it. what the hell is going on?

[EricForman]

Im confused. Eric Foreman is arguing with himself??? saying Iverson is MVP worthy and then arguing it. what the hell is going on?


Um, wasn't I saying Nash deserved at least one of his MVPs and I was telling everyone to drop the "Nash is the worse MVP EVER HE ONLY WINS CAUSE HE'S WHITE" gimmick?

I'm a huge fan of Iverson but where excatly did I say Iverson is MVP worthy this year? I was arguing with the Iverson fan telling him he's insane to think Iverson rhas a shot this year.

[hotsizzle]

Iverson having only one MVP is hardly an injustice. His prime just happened to clash with the primes of Duncan and Shaq, two of the greatest winners of ALL TIME, Shaq is top 6 player all time and Duncan is top 15.

Jason Kidd fans should complain about Kidd not having an MVP, Dirk fans have a case last year, but Iverson fans? Let it go you guys got one already.

that high? highest I've ever seen shaq rated. How come Duncan is top 15? I mean, not saying that Duncan is better but Shaq has won rings with 2 top 10 players in the L...arguably top 5 at some point...Duncan has done it as one and only, no clear sidekick...know what I mean?

I guess what Im wondering is how come there is that much of a difference between shaq and duncan?

[hotsizzle]

Um, wasn't I saying Nash deserved at least one of his MVPs and I was telling everyone to drop the "Nash is the worse MVP EVER HE ONLY WINS CAUSE HE'S WHITE" gimmick?

I'm a huge fan of Iverson but where excatly did I say Iverson is MVP worthy this year? I was arguing with the Iverson fan telling him he's insane to think Iverson rhas a shot this year.

look on the previous page...he quoted you and every point you make about iverson being not worthy...right after it in bold, you contradict it?

[EricForman]

that high? highest I've ever seen shaq rated. How come Duncan is top 15? I mean, not saying that Duncan is better but Shaq has won rings with 2 top 10 players in the L...arguably top 5 at some point...Duncan has done it as one and only, no clear sidekick...know what I mean?

I guess what Im wondering is how come there is that much of a difference between shaq and duncan?


Shaq's regular season win % + the number of times his team has made it to the Conference Finals ( I believe 9 and counting) + the total amount of rings 4 (including the rare/tough task of threepeat),+ the ridiculous statlines in his prime years = Shaq is every bit as good as the "top tier" guys like Magic/Bird/Hakeem/Kareem. Hell, I think 2000 Shaq, for that one year, is the single most dominant/effective/efficient player EVER. Better than any single year of Bird/Magic/Wilt/Kareem, etc.

Also, another interesting thing that won't show up in stats, besides his rookie year and this year, I believe EVERY YEAR of Shaq's career, his team has been considered a "top four team/title contender" during the season. Be it preseason rankings or midseason rankings, his team is always a "top four". Whether or not they actually win it all is another story, but Shaq's teams has generally always been considered a "legit contender". We're talking about a 10 year stretch here.

Shaq really should be no lower than 7 or 8 all time, only haters and people in denial would still rank say..... Jerry West or Hakeem or like Bob Cousy over Shaq. Only players that can clear cut say they've had a better career than Shaq are Jordan, Bill Russell and maybe Magic. Not even Bird/Kareem can make that claim.

The reason Shaq ranks higher than Duncan significantly is because of Shaq's utter dominance. Although Duncan was great, he didn't always dominate. He had some off games in 03 vs the Nets, in 05, he had some bad games and Manu carried the load a bit. When Shaq won his three, HE WAS THE MAN AND HE DOMINATED. Dropping 40s and 20s like nothing.

Shaq is the sickest physical speciment in basketball history, if he wasn't so lazy and had a better work ethic, he'd be the GOAT.

[EricForman]

look on the previous page...he quoted you and every point you make about iverson being not worthy...right after it in bold, you contradict it?

The bolded lines aren't my words... they're that Iverson fan-- Serge's replies to me... he doesn't know how to quote correctly or something. Come on you think i'm that crazy, argue with myself?

[statman32]

The bolded lines aren't my words... they're that Iverson fan-- Serge's replies to me... he doesn't know how to quote correctly or something. Come on you think i'm that crazy, argue with myself?
lol i understood what he did but come on...there are some dumb people on here...some of them would probably argue with themselves lol

[hotsizzle]

Shaq's regular season win %, throw in the number of times his team has made it to at least the Conference Finals ( I believe 9 and counting), plus the total amount of rings 4 (including the rare/tough task of threepeat), PLUS the ridiculous statlines in his prime years = Shaq is every bit as good as the "top tier" guys like Magic/Bird/Hakeem/Kareem. Hell, I think 2000 Shaq, for that one year, is the single most dominant/effective/efficient player EVER. Better than any single year of Bird/Magic/Wilt/Kareem, etc.

Also, another interesting thing that won't show up in stats, besides his rookie year and this year, I believe EVERY YEAR of Shaq's career, his team has been considered a "top four team/title contender" during the season. Be it preseason rankings or midseason rankings, his team is always a "top four". Whether or not they actually win it all is another story, but Shaq's teams has generally always been considered a "legit contender". We're talking about a 10 year stretch here.

Shaq really should be no lower than 7 or 8 all time, only haters and people in denial would still rank say..... Jerry West or Hakeem or like Bob Cousy over Shaq. Only players that can clear cut say they've had a better career than Shaq are Jordan, Bill Russell and maybe Magic. Not even Bird/Kareem can make that claim.

The reason Shaq ranks higher than Duncan significantly is because of Shaq's utter dominance. Although Duncan was great, he didn't always dominate. He had some off games in 03 vs the Nets, in 05, he had some bad games and Manu carried the load a bit. When Shaq won his three, HE WAS THE MAN AND HE DOMINATED. Dropping 40s and 20s like nothing.

Shaq is the sickest physical speciment in basketball history, if he wasn't so lazy and had a better work ethic, he'd be the GOAT.

good points. Didnt really look at it that way especially from the "how his team ranked so high every year of his career" standpoint. Duncan can also make that claim though but I get the point of the level of dominance. If you look at careers though...the difference isnt huge in terms of career stats combined with the impact they've had on their resepctive teams and the league in general . Duncan is also an outstanding two way player, something shaq cant say

Career #s

Shaq: 26.3 pts 11.8 rebs 2.8 assts 2.5 blks 57% FG

- 4 rings
- 3 Finals MVPs
- 7 finals appearences
- 1 Reg Season MVPs (although I think he should have at least 3)
- Been on NBA all team EVERY YEAR of his career and 3 times on NBA all defense (all 2nd team)

Duncan: 22.0 pts 12.0 rebs 3.1 assts 2.5 blks 51% FG

- 3 rings
- 3 Finals MVPs
- 3 Finals appearences
- 2 Reg Season MVPs
- Been on NBA all team and NBA all defense EVERY SINGLE YEAR of his career

I guess the finals appearences do it for shaq getting the edge. But numbers wise, although shaq had a statistical dominant prime, shaq's career numbers dont blow ducan's out of the water. As I said, both can claim to have huge team impact and are always in contention starting from their rookie yrs. Defensively, Duncan is better.

Personally, I would seperate them by 2 spots or so with the edge going to Shaq...and Im not old enough to know much about the past players so Im not going to get into where they should specifically rank until I gain some more insight on the past.

[hotsizzle]

The bolded lines aren't my words... they're that Iverson fan-- Serge's replies to me... he doesn't know how to quote correctly or something. Come on you think i'm that crazy, argue with myself?

haha my bad, its just that I was reading it and then Im like "wait, is he trying to say he is or he is not worthy"? confused me a lil bit

[Serge]

The thing is, as an AI fan, you really sholdn't be bitter, AI already has one MVP, which is something Kobe may never do, Tmac probably for sure will never do, there are PLENTY, PLENTY of "big time talents" who has never won an MVP, GP, Webber, Pippen. AI actually has one despite never being on any "powerhouse teams" the way Webber, GP, Pip or even Dirk was. (the 01 team was a hard working overachieving bunch, let's not get carried away and say they were a powerhouse)

LOL I would never say that about 01 being a power house I am not stupid haha it was a weak east, and everyone filled there roles nice. Mickie 6th man, Deke Mutombo D player of the year, coach of the year ect........They all did what they had to that is all would never say they were a power house I am not stupid haha.

And now again, please don't take this as a diss to Iverson, I'm the first to defend Iverson on any Iverson vs Kobe debate because Iverson has never had anyone remotely 1/3 as good as prime Shaq. BUT last two years, with Iggy, Webber, Dalembert, Korver, it really wasn't that bad, and I feel they did underachieve.

Did they underachieve sure maybe a little. But again when you combine Webber, Korver, and AI's D that is not a good combo espacially for the time Korver actually started with those 2. Webber is not prime Webber one leg, and old. Korver plays worse D then AI, and Webber combined. lol Iggy once he deveopes he will be a nice 2nd guy for a good team, but he is not agressive enough, and is not consistent enough. He also is to scared a lot of time to shoot. Sammy is not as good as we thought he be he fumbles the ball a lot when people pass to him.

Iverson having only one MVP is hardly an injustice. His prime just happened to clash with the primes of Duncan and Shaq, two of the greatest winners of ALL TIME, Shaq is top 6 player all time and Duncan is top 15.

Yea even at 30-31 you can still say he is in his best so also you got Lebron, Kobe, ect...........right now I agree

Jason Kidd fans should complain about Kidd not having an MVP, Dirk fans have a case last year, but Iverson fans? Let it go you guys got one already.

I am happy he has one, but should we not have the right to be up set he does not have more cause of the lack of talent around him?

The fact is besidse 01 I don't even freaking remember any "memorable playoff run" from Iverson. Nash had two monster runs the last two years. Let it go, Steve Nash is better than alot people give hi mcredit for.

He had another year were he had nice playoffs even though team did not get to the finals, but then again east got better AI's team did not cause of the stupid GM not putting enough talent around AI.

And I respect what Nash has done the last 2 years, and this year what he is doing even more. Just cause I think 2 years ago AI should have won it, and last year Lebron or Kobe does not mean I don't respect Nash for what he is doing or has done before.

[Serge]

Um, wasn't I saying Nash deserved at least one of his MVPs and I was telling everyone to drop the "Nash is the worse MVP EVER HE ONLY WINS CAUSE HE'S WHITE" gimmick?

I'm a huge fan of Iverson but where excatly did I say Iverson is MVP worthy this year? I was arguing with the Iverson fan telling him he's insane to think Iverson rhas a shot this year.

Umm question I think anyone who is having nice seasons still have chance at MVP about 15-20 players still can win a MVP once season is over.

RIGHT NOW NASH IS THE MVP!!!

But it's not even half way thru the season things can change.

Will it be easy for AI to win MVP this season heck no never siad it be. But possible? Yes

When Melo, and JR return I don't see AI missing 10 assists to much with the up tempo they will play at he will still get the shots, and points so why not?

[20 Dimes A Game]

He is a sick player but not the best in the L
But....He is the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER

[adamcz]

Serge, don't put your own words inside the quote box.

[Kobe_6/8]

Kobe
LeBron
Duncan
Dirk
Wade
Garnett

All should be considered better players, in EVERYONES mind...you can also make an arguement for Iverson being the better player.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2012/01/yes-rudy1.gif

[FKAri]

Why bump this?