ISH Player of the Year Project: 2009-10

[Deuce Bigalow]

1st 2nd 3rd PTS
Kobe Bryant 10 6 4 162
Lebron James 9 8 3 161
Dwyane Wade 2 8 11 131
Kevin Durant 0 0 3 15
Dirk Nowitzki 1 0 0 10
2009-10 Player of the Year: Kobe Bryant

[RRR3]

LeBron
Wade
Kobe

[christian1923]

Kobe
Lebron
wade

[jacobgoindum]

1. Kobe Bryant - Finals MVP and best player in the playoffs
2. Dwyane Wade - Great season, dominated Playoffs
3. Lebron James - MVP and the best player in the regular season

[ShaqAttack3234]

1.Lebron James
2.Kobe Bryant
3.Dwyane Wade

There is a case for Kobe over Lebron because of Lebron's disappearing act the final 3 games vs Boston, but I have to stick with Lebron.

By this point, he was just a better player than Kobe, imo, or anyone in the league. Overall offensive dominance and impact as well as playing better defense than Bryant by this point.

There's no doubt that Kobe's title means a lot, but that by itself shouldn't end the debate because I seriously doubt that Kobe makes the Cavs as good as Lebron did. And elevating that team to 60+ wins was quite a feat, particularly when his second best player went down, Lebron fills in at point guard and they go 11-0.

Those last 3 games vs Boston make it tough for me to fully appreciate Lebron's season, and those definitely shouldn't be ignored, but the level he played at all year before that was historically great.

As for Kobe vs Wade. I have to Kobe with Kobe on this one. Before the injuries piled up in January, Kobe was my choice for MVP. He was killing guys in the post and looking as consistent offensively as I've seen him. Injuries really affected him after that, and because he tried to shoot himself out of it, he was hurting the team for a stretch, but after the OKC series when he got his knee drained, all bets were off with a dominant series vs Utah and arguably the greatest series of his career vs Phoenix. Bryant was the best player in the playoffs.

Wade started off the season slowly and Pat Riley questioned his conditioning. His jumper was also M.I.A. I really don't see a reason to put him over Kobe.

[Kurosawa0]

1. LeBron James
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Kevin Durant

[ballsohard247]

LeBron
Kobe
Wade

Durant was close though.

[Papaya Petee]

LeBron
Wade
Kobe

[DevilsAssassin]

1.Lebron James
2.Dwyane Wade
3.Kobe Bryant

[Scholar]

Any combination of Kobe, LeBron and Wade.

Durant could arguably be in the top three instead of Wade, though.

[Bernie Nips]

1. LeBron
2. Wade
3. Durant

[Coffee Black]

1. Kobe-Led his team to the championship, beating former champions in the process.
2. LeBron- Great regular season play leading the team to the best record, but could not nearly match the season success in the playoffs.
3. Wade- Great play leading his team to overachieving with a lack of talent surrounding him.

[iDefend5]

1. Kobe
2. LeBron
3. Wade


I am not 100% positive about this list. I am thinking that maybe LeBron should be above Kobe since LeBron was healthy all season and was on his own level in the regular season. Kobe was clearly the better playoff performer though.

[D-Wade316]

1. Wade
2. Lebron
3. Kobe

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Kobe
LeBron
Wade

[Deuce Bigalow]

1. LeBron
2. Wade
3. Durant

interesting..

[Deuce Bigalow]

Any combination of Kobe, LeBron and Wade.

Durant could arguably be in the top three instead of Wade, though.

Is this your top 3?

[upside24]

1. LeBron
2. Kobe
3. Wade

[jacobgoindum]

This doesnt make sense, Dirk won 2010-11 because he was the best player in the playoffs, his team got the ring and he got finals mvp
Kobe in 2009-10 was the best player in the playoffs, helped his team get the ring, and won finals mvp, but Lebron is going to win :rolleyes:

[Coffee Black]

My problem with ranking LeBron best in 2010, or 2009 for that matter, is that his and the team he leads' playoff performance does not match their playoff performance. In 2010 they beat everyone and were clearly the most dominant team during the regular season. They were the only 60+ win team and beat the Celtics and Lakers twice. But in the playoffs they just got worked against the first good competition they faced. LeBron underperformed and showed the lack of the winning quality of other players.

[brisbaneman]

1. dirk
2. kobe
3. wade

[jacobgoindum]

1. dirk
2. kobe
3. wade

:facepalm

[brisbaneman]

:facepalm

why the facepalm?

[jacobgoindum]

why the facepalm?

It's for morons like you

[jacobgoindum]

Kobe, Lebron, Wade are clearly in the top 3, however you want to rank them is arguable

Dirk has NO case

[brisbaneman]

It's for morons like you

How am I a moron?

Should I have put [insert name of your favorite player] in there instead? let me take a guess, you don't think dirk was #1 even though he took his team to a 2 seed in a fierce west with no 2nd option.

[brisbaneman]

Kobe, Lebron, Wade are clearly in the top 3, however you want to rank them is arguable

Dirk has NO case

OK I take it you never actually watched him in 09-10.

[iDefend5]

1. dirk
2. kobe
3. wade
:facepalm So the player of the year was somebody who got knocked out of the 1st round?

[jacobgoindum]

:facepalm So the player of the year was somebody who got knocked out of the 1st round?

as the higher seed

[jacobgoindum]

OK I take it you never actually watched him in 09-10.

OK I take it you never watched any games in 09-10.

[rhythmic]

1. LeBron
2. Bryant
3. Wade

[brisbaneman]

:facepalm So the player of the year was somebody who got knocked out of the 1st round?

How was dwight a top 3 player in 2010-2011 in that case?

same with Wade in 09-10?

or does this only apply to white players?

[jacobgoindum]

How was dwight a top 3 player in 2010-2011 in that case?

same with Wade in 09-10?

or does this only apply to white players?

what does it have to do with race?

[brisbaneman]

what does it have to do with race?

well you make it seem such a stretch that dirk was top 3 despite the fact he was easily in the mix as a top 3 player, and yet you won't bat an eye at the idea that wade and howard were top 3 despite first round exits. So I wonder why.

[jacobgoindum]

well you make it seem such a stretch that dirk was top 3 despite the fact he was easily in the mix as a top 3 player, and yet you won't bat an eye at the idea that wade and howard were top 3 despite first round exits. So I wonder why.

Kobe, Lebron, Wade, and Dwight were clearly ahead of Dirk, It's not even debatable

[brownmamba00]

1.Kobe
2.Wade
3.Bron

[blablabla]

kobe
bron
wade

[iDefend5]

How was dwight a top 3 player in 2010-2011 in that case?

same with Wade in 09-10?

Cause Wade in '09-'10 and Dwight in '10-'11 were better overall players than Dirk was in '09-'10. My issue wasn't that you had Dirk in the top 3; my issue was that you had Dirk at #1.

[brisbaneman]

Kobe, Lebron, Wade, and Dwight were clearly ahead of Dirk, It's not even debatable
lol I guess you didn't bother to actually watch Dirk in 09-10.

[brisbaneman]

Cause Wade in '09-'10 and Dwight in '10-'11 were better overall players than Dirk was in '09-'10. My issue wasn't that you had Dirk in the top 3; my issue was that you had Dirk at #1.

That's simply not true. I watched every mavs game and he almost routinely outplayed the competition in 09-10. He just doesn't get the recognition because he doesn't seek glory like the other guys.

[GS1905]

Kobe
Wade
Griffin

[iDefend5]

That's simply not true. I watched every mavs game and he almost routinely outplayed the competition in 09-10. He just doesn't get the recognition because he doesn't seek glory like the other guys.
I am really interested to know how Dirk in '09-'10 had a better season than Kobe, LeBron, and Wade. You can also explain to me how he was a better overall player than those three too. I am interested in hearing this.

[Shade8780]

Wade
LeBron
Durant

[brisbaneman]

I am really interested to know how Dirk in '09-'10 had a better season than Kobe, LeBron, and Wade. You can also explain to me how he was a better overall player than those three too. I am interested in hearing this.

Well he led a mediocre team to a 2 seed in a tough West, for one. Head to head he matched or outplayed every top player (check on basketball reference). The other players you list probably were statistically better because they focus more heavily on stats than does Dirk. Your opinion is clouded by what you see on ESPN, etc. Dirk didn't suddenly just play out of his mind this postseason, he's been probably the best player in the NBA ever since 2006, it's just that no one acknowledged it or hyped him, and then every black nba analyst pretty much intentionally ignores him.

[iDefend5]

Well he led a mediocre team to a 2 seed in a tough West, for one. Head to head he matched or outplayed every top player (check on basketball reference). The other players you list probably were statistically better because they focus more heavily on stats than does Dirk. Your opinion is clouded by what you see on ESPN, etc. Dirk didn't suddenly just play out of his mind this postseason, he's been probably the best player in the NBA ever since 2006, it's just that no one acknowledged it or hyped him, and then every black nba analyst pretty much intentionally ignores him.
The line I bolded was your only argument. The rest was just your opinion and a really dumb one at that

Dirk did a great job leading the Mavericks to the #2 seed in '09-'10. The Mavericks were also the first team to ever lose to a #7 seed. Before every other season no #2 seed had ever lost to a #7 seed until the 2010 playoffs.

I don't know how that makes him a better overall player than LeBron, Wade, or Kobe either. He made a less of an impact on the court than all three of them.

But who was the #1 seed in the West in 2010? Who had the #1 record in the NBA in 2010? Those two teams had a player that was better than Dirk.

[brisbaneman]

The line I bolded was your only argument. The rest was just your opinion and a really dumb one at that

Dirk did a great job leading the Mavericks to the #2 seed in '09-'10. The Mavericks were also the first team to ever lose to a #7 seed. Before every other season no #2 seed had ever lost to a #7 seed until the 2010 playoffs.

I don't know how that makes him a better overall player than LeBron, Wade, or Kobe either. He made a less of an impact on the court than all three of them.

But who was the #1 seed in the West in 2010? Who had the #1 record in the NBA in 2010? Those two teams had a player that was better than Dirk.

Your argument is much stupider. All you did was make a sweeping opinion and passed it off as fact. The truth is that no team is more heavily reliant on one player than dallas is with Dirk. Fact.

what did wade or lebron do that was any better? lebron lost in humiliating fashion to the one good team he faced and wade was irrelevant outside of taking a lot of shots. Kobe merely had the best supporting cast and was often eclipsed by gasol in production.

Your argument lacks and is completely unfounded. It's an opinion and nothing else.

[iDefend5]

Your argument is much stupider. All you did was make a sweeping opinion and passed it off as fact. The truth is that no team is more heavily reliant on one player than dallas is with Dirk. Fact.

what did wade or lebron do that was any better? lebron lost in humiliating fashion to the one good team he faced and wade was irrelevant outside of taking a lot of shots. Kobe merely had the best supporting cast and was often eclipsed by gasol in production.

Your argument lacks and is completely unfounded. It's an opinion and nothing else.
Why did you avoid the question I asked you?

Who was the #1 seed in the West in 2010? Who had the #1 record in the NBA in 2010?

Lebron made it past the 1st round that season and Kobe won the championship that season last I checked. LeBron also won the NBA MVP that season and Kobe won the NBA Finals MVP that season. Dirk didn't even make the All-NBA First team in '09-'10 and you are trying to convince me and everyone else here that Dirk was the best in '09-'10? :confusedshrug:

I think it is safe to say that Kobe and Lebron accomplished more than Dirk did that season.

[brisbaneman]

Why did you avoid the question I asked you?

Who was the #1 seed in the West in 2010? Who had the #1 record in the NBA in 2010?

Lebron made it past the 1st round that season and Kobe won the championship that season last I checked. LeBron also won the NBA MVP that season and Kobe won the NBA Finals MVP that season. Dirk didn't even make the All-NBA First team in '09-'10 and you are trying to convince me and everyone else here that Dirk was the best in '09-'10? :confusedshrug:

I think it is safe to say that Kobe and Lebron accomplished more than Dirk did that season.


Right, and yet when dirk defeats the entire nba, people here will still put dwight freaking howard and lebron over him...why do you think that is?

I don't mind that you don't think dirk was top 3. I personally think he was top 3 in 09-10. The only thing that bothers me is when people insult me for putting him there.

[jacobgoindum]

Well he led a mediocre team to a 2 seed in a tough West, for one. Head to head he matched or outplayed every top player (check on basketball reference). The other players you list probably were statistically better because they focus more heavily on stats than does Dirk. Your opinion is clouded by what you see on ESPN, etc. Dirk didn't suddenly just play out of his mind this postseason, he's been probably the best player in the NBA ever since 2006, it's just that no one acknowledged it or hyped him, and then every black nba analyst pretty much intentionally ignores him.

:wtf:

[iDefend5]

Right, and yet when dirk defeats the entire nba, people here will still put dwight freaking howard and lebron over him...why do you think that is?
People don't understand the difference between player of the year and best overall player. I don't think Dirk is the best overall player right now but he was the player of the year in 2010-2011.




I don't mind that you don't think dirk was top 3. I personally think he was top 3 in 09-10. The only thing that bothers me is when people insult me for putting him there.
You put him at #1 and that is the problem. Put him at #3 and I don't care because I do think it is reasonable to put him up there in '09-'10.

[jacobgoindum]

Wade
LeBron
Durant

Durant over Kobe :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[brisbaneman]

People don't understand the difference between player of the year and best overall player. I don't think Dirk is the best overall player right now but he was the player of the year in 2010-2011.



You put him at #1 and that is the problem. Put him at #3 and I don't care because I do think it is reasonable to put him up there in '09-'10.

if dirk won the title without a 2nd option how is he not the best player? considering he beat two guys on the same team that many on here consider the two best in the nba? this is very hard for me to understand. please explain the logic behind this.

[jacobgoindum]

idefender5, dont bother arguing with him, he's delusional, "Dirk the best since 2006" :oldlol:

[jacobgoindum]

if dirk won the title without a 2nd option how is he not the best player? considering he beat two guys on the same team that many on here consider the two best in the nba? this is very hard for me to understand. please explain the logic behind this.

this is 2009-10, not 2010-11
and jason terry didn't exist? and lets just forget about tyson chandler, jason kidd, shawn marion, and jj barea too

[brisbaneman]

this is 2009-10, not 2010-11
and jason terry didn't exist? and lets just forget about tyson chandler, jason kidd, shawn marion, and jj barea too

lol compare dirk's cast to the teams he faced and it's laughable.

barea, chandler, and butler are going to return to mediocrity this season

[jacobgoindum]

lol compare dirk's cast to the teams he faced and it's laughable.

barea, chandler, and butler are going to return to mediocrity this season
No, the Mavs are going to return to mediocrity this season

[brisbaneman]

No, the Mavs are going to return to mediocrity this season

No dirk will be great as always.

you are full of shit if you think dirk's supporting cast was remotely as good as the heat, blazers, lakers, or thunder.

[jacobgoindum]

No dirk will be great as always.

you are full of shit if you think dirk's supporting cast was remotely as good as the heat, blazers, lakers, or thunder.

blazers and thunder yeah :oldlol:

BTW this thread is about 2009-10

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe
Wade
Griffin

Griffin did not play a single regular season game in 2009-10, change the vote if you want me to count it

[Bernie Nips]

interesting..

How is it interesting? I didn't vote Dirk in the top 3 for 2010-11 either. Kobe wasn't as good as LeBron, Wade or Durant in the regular season. I don't place as much emphasis on the playoffs, otherwise we would be saying "who was the best player in the playoffs"... if I recall, the player of the year is for 2009-10, so that includes the regular season.

I also believe Gasol should have won Finals MVP over Kobe, so I don't think his Finals were very good at all. So I'm not gonna put Kobe top 3 cos he had a couple of good playoffs series, when LeBron and Wade BOTH had better playoff series than Kobe, they just didn't have the teams to win. Durant was the scoring champion quite comfortably and finished second in the MVP.

So I'm definitely sticking with:

1. LeBron
2. Wade
3. Durant

[iDefend5]

How is it interesting? I didn't vote Dirk in the top 3 for 2010-11 either. Kobe wasn't as good as LeBron, Wade or Durant in the regular season. I don't place as much emphasis on the playoffs, otherwise we would be saying "who was the best player in the playoffs"... if I recall, the player of the year is for 2009-10, so that includes the regular season.

I also believe Gasol should have won Finals MVP over Kobe, so I don't think his Finals were very good at all. So I'm not gonna put Kobe top 3 cos he had a couple of good playoffs series, when LeBron and Wade BOTH had better playoff series than Kobe, they just didn't have the teams to win. Durant was the scoring champion quite comfortably and finished second in the MVP.

So I'm definitely sticking with:

1. LeBron
2. Wade
3. Durant
If you don't put that much emphasis on the playoffs then Wade shouldn't be in the top 3 either because he didn't have a very good regular season either. If anything Kobe had a better regular season than Wade did in 09-10 and the MVP votings back that up. Wade made a name for himself that season because of his stellar play in the post-season, not the regular season

Based on the regular season the top three should look like this

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Kobe

[Bernie Nips]

I think Wade's regular season performance is underrated due to the fact that it wasn't as good as the previous year's, when he was unstoppable.

Fact is, he still had a great year, dragging a team that wasn't very good into the playoffs.

Kobe reg season:

27/5.4/5/1.5/0.3 on 45.6%

Wade reg season:

26.6/6.5/4.8/1.8/1.1 on 47.6%

Statically, Wade edges Kobe on most categories, but fairly comparable. The difference being, Wade didn't have anywhere near the support that Kobe had. I rate Wade's season better than Kobe's, and MARGINALLY better than Durant.

Kobe is definitely a very close fourth though.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I think Wade's regular season performance is underrated due to the fact that it wasn't as good as the previous year's, when he was unstoppable.

Fact is, he still had a great year, dragging a team that wasn't very good into the playoffs.

Kobe reg season:

27/5.4/5/1.5/0.3 on 45.6%

Wade reg season:

26.6/6.5/4.8/1.8/1.1 on 47.6%

Statically, Wade edges Kobe on most categories, but fairly comparable. The difference being, Wade didn't have anywhere near the support that Kobe had. I rate Wade's season better than Kobe's, and MARGINALLY better than Durant.

Kobe is definitely a very close fourth though.

Do the Playoffs not matter?

[Bernie Nips]

Do the Playoffs not matter?

Didn't read my other post? I said this is Player of the Year, not Player of the Playoffs.

You really want me to compare Wade and Kobe's playoff numbers? Sure bro!

Kobe:
29.2/6/5.5/1.3/0.7 on 45.8%

Wade:
33.2/5.6/6.8/1.6/1.6 on 56.4%

Hmmm.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Didn't read my other post? I said this is Player of the Year, not Player of the Playoffs.

You really want me to compare Wade and Kobe's playoff numbers? Sure bro!

Kobe:
29.2/6/5.5/1.3/0.7 on 45.8%

Wade:
33.2/5.6/6.8/1.6/1.6 on 56.4%

Hmmm.

1. Playoffs are part of the year
2. Kobe's team won a ring, Wade's team got swept in the first round, nice comparison (23 games to 5)

[Deuce Bigalow]

I also believe Gasol should have won Finals MVP over Kobe, so I don't think his Finals were very good at all.


28.6/8.0/3.9/41% > 18.6/11.6/3.7/48%

[Bernie Nips]

1. Playoffs are part of the year
2. Kobe's team won a ring, Wade's team got swept in the first round, nice comparison (23 games to 5)

I can only compare to how they played. The Lakers were a FAR better team than the Heat, so of course they got to play more playoffs games.

And yes, playoffs are part of the year, but they're not the entire year. Far from it.

Let me ask you this, who was the best player of the 2005-06 season in your opinion? Cos using your criteria, he better have led the team to a ring, while he definitely should not have been knocked out in the first round.

[Bernie Nips]

28.6/8.0/3.9/41% > 18.6/11.1/3.5/48%

Garnett:
15.2/5.5/3/1.4/1.3

Gasol made that happen.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I can only compare to how they played. The Lakers were a FAR better team than the Heat, so of course they got to play more playoffs games.

And yes, playoffs are part of the year, but they're not the entire year. Far from it.

Let me ask you this, who was the best player of the 2005-06 season in your opinion? Cos using your criteria, he better have led the team to a ring, while he definitely should not have been knocked out in the first round.

I just don't see how Kobe isn't top 3, I dont care if you dont have him #1, but Durant in-front of him is just wrong
And Wade's team was obviously bad and Kobe's was good, but Wade's regular season wasn't that impressive over Kobe's to put him over IMO

as far as 2005-06, I have Kobe first and Wade second, I wouldn't mind if Wade gets #1 because he did lead a team to ring and was obviously the best player in the playoffs
But nobody was saying Wade was better than Kobe that year

But I do understand where you're coming from a little bit because you do need good enough players to win that ring, and just because you didnt doesn't mean that you were not the best player

[Deuce Bigalow]

Garnett:
15.2/5.5/3/1.4/1.3

Gasol made that happen.

Gasol was great, at home
His poor play @ Boston really doesn't make it a discussion

[Bernie Nips]

Gasol was great, at home
His poor play @ Boston really doesn't make it a discussion

So what you're saying is, LA couldn't win unless Gasol played great. So when he played great they won. Sounds pretty VALUABLE to me.

[Deuce Bigalow]

So what you're saying is, LA couldn't win unless Gasol played great. So when he played great they won. Sounds pretty VALUABLE to me.

takes a team to win doesn't it?

Did you not watch game 5? I mean really, or game 4?
When both of them did play great, they blew the Cs out (game 1 and 6)

[jacobgoindum]

So what you're saying is, LA couldn't win unless Gasol played great. So when he played great they won. Sounds pretty VALUABLE to me.

What is this?
If Pau played better on the road, LA wins the chip in 6

[Deuce Bigalow]

What is this?
If Pau played better on the road, LA wins the chip in 6
Agreed, but they still won the series so I dont care

[jacobgoindum]

Agreed, but they still won the series so I dont care

yeah same here, LA gettin the chip is all that matters

[CardiacKemba]

Kobe did nothing last season to validate him being top 3 of the year. As much as I love Kobe, he wasn't top 5.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe did nothing last season to validate him being top 3 of the year. As much as I love Kobe, he wasn't top 5.

This is 2009-10, not 2010-11

[CardiacKemba]

This is 2009-10, not 2010-11

Oh my bad :lol in that case I would say Kobe was definitely top 3 in the 09/10 season.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Oh my bad :lol in that case I would say Kobe was definitely top 3 in the 09/10 season.

Yeah, Kobe dropped off quite a bit from '10 to '11, I dont think he was top 3 in '10-11 either

[acerlghp]

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Dwyane Wade
3. Lebron James

HM: Dwight

Great season, I felt that Kobe was the best that year.