Are You Wiling To Acknowledge Stern Got a Better Deal After His Veto?

[HurricaneKid]

I know the veto rocked the basketball world but the package NO ended up getting is clearly superior in every way. They got a far better player out of the deal, they are paying far less in salary, they got younger talent, and they got elite draft picks in the best draft since the LBJ/Wade draft. In short, they got pieces you can build a future on.

Will you acknowledge that Stern did the best thing?

I will.

[reppy]

Stern = GOAT GM. :bowdown:

[RazorBaLade]

he got it by breaking the rules... but theres no doubt he got himself a great deal.

[LA_Showtime]

Yup. I said it in another thread. I'm still salty with how it went down since it ruined the Lakers' team chemistry, but you can't fault the guy for holding out since he got exactly what he wanted.

[UtahJazzFan88]

he got it by breaking the rules... but theres no doubt he got himself a great deal.

How is this breaking the rules? :facepalm Bad precedent? Possibly. Should have been vetoed? Probably not. But breaking the rules, just ask yourself who owns the team? :confusedshrug:

Stern is a genius to the Hornets fan base (if there is any), and got a monumentally better deal.

[longtime lurker]

The veto was complete and utter bullshit. He did it to make an example of Chris Paul and punish the Lakers. This deal was better in the short term, but we still don't know what the GM would have done with Kevin MArtin, Scola and Odom.

[DuMa]

in before more laker fans whine

[Grinder]

There's no doubt about that.

Eric Gordon is a great young shooting guard. Chris Kaman is a big expiring contract and one of the better centers in the league. Aminu is still very young and has promise and they're probably going to have 2 (one very high) lottery picks in a stacked draft.

They could end up with a core of Eric Gordon - Michael Gilchrist/Harrison Barnes - Andre Drummond/Anthony Davis :applause:

[RazorBaLade]

How is this breaking the rules? :facepalm Bad precedent? Possibly. Should have been vetoed? Probably not. But breaking the rules, just ask yourself who owns the team? :confusedshrug:

So it's not collusion to have the owners of the Mavs and Nets call up Stern and bitch that the Lakers shouldn't get that deal? Then he not only turns down the trade, but he VETO'S it. Didn't even know that is possible. So broke rule/set precedent/invented shit to save himself.

[UtahJazzFan88]

So it's not collusion to have the owners of the Mavs and Nets call up Stern and bitch that the Lakers shouldn't get that deal? Then he not only turns down the trade, but he VETO'S it. Didn't even know that is possible. So broke rule/set precedent/invented shit to save himself.

Who is the owner of that team? :no: Answer yourself that.

[Hammertime]

This deal was better in the short term, but we still don't know what the GM would have done with Kevin MArtin, Scola and Odom.

What the f*ck was he going to do with those three, win the championship?

They got a 23-year old SG who put up 22-4-3 last year, a dude who was picked 8th in the draft last year, a 29-year old legit center who played in an All-star game as recently as 2010, and on top of that, they got what will surely be a top 10, and perhaps even a top 5 pick next year.

But yes, let's all wonder how good the core of K-Mart, Scola, and Lamar f*cking Odom would have been 5 years from now. :hammerhead:

[ballsohard247]

He did the right thing getting as much as he could for CP3 but he went about it the wrong way. Sometimes the end result is the only thing that is remembered so I guess he did alright.

[blacknapalm]

stern got the better deal. it's just unfortunate every detail involving cp3 was made public. kupchak likes to work in private. houston's plans were completely derailed and they had to adjust and waste day upon day of everybody's time. not only did they miss out on gasol, they lost the pull to bring in nene. that's the part that sucked.

[Scholar]

Definitely made the Hornets a better team than if he accepted the Lakers-Rockets offer, but as a Lakers fan, I'm still annoyed by his actions over the past last week.


For basketball reasons.

[UtahJazzFan88]

What the f*ck was he going to do with those three, win the championship?

They got a 23-year old SG who put up 22-4-3 last year, a dude who was picked 8th in the draft last year, a 29-year old legit center who played in an All-star game as recently as 2010, and on top of that, they got what will surely be a top 10, and perhaps even a top 5 pick next year.

But yes, let's all wonder how good the core of K-Mart, Scola, and Lamar f*cking Odom would have been 5 years from now. :hammerhead:

Not only that, but Kevin Martin, Scola, Odom's contracts aren't very pretty, less appealing to an owner. 6th-8th seed playoff team for a year or two at best.

[konex]

He did but the whole thing is still shady. Clipps were alseep at the wheel yet get CP3 cos of collusion..

[Eldrunko247]

It's not that much better dude. Younger talent yes because of the pick but not necessarily better talent.

[NuggetsFan]

Just did what any competent GM would do. That Demps guy was a fool. Who ships off a franchise player before training camp at the very first deal? After that NBA clearly waited it out, shopped him around, drove up his value and ended up getting the perfect package for there situation.

[NumberSix]

So it's not collusion to have the owners of the Mavs and Nets call up Stern and bitch that the Lakers shouldn't get that deal? Then he not only turns down the trade, but he VETO'S it. Didn't even know that is possible. So broke rule/set precedent/invented shit to save himself.
Well, technically, they're part owners voicing their opinion on the potential trade. They do own part of the team. Wouldn't it be odd if they DIDN'T have a say?

[GOBB]

What rules were broken? If Mitch made a trade sending Bynum to the Sixers for Iguodala and change? Buss would deny it. When you realize who owns the NOH you'll be able to seperate Stern the commish from Stern the owner.

[longtime lurker]

What the f*ck was he going to do with those three, win the championship?

They got a 23-year old SG who put up 22-4-3 last year, a dude who was picked 8th in the draft last year, a 29-year old legit center who played in an All-star game as recently as 2010, and on top of that, they got what will surely be a top 10, and perhaps even a top 5 pick next year.

But yes, let's all wonder how good the core of K-Mart, Scola, and Lamar f*cking Odom would have been 5 years from now. :hammerhead:

Hey jackass no one said that the Hornets core will be K-Mart, Scola and Lamar. The Hornets could flip those players for more picks and assets. And I love how people assume the Minnesota pick is going to be a high pick, they aren't going to tank the season at best it will be late lottery. You guys aren't thinking clearly, I already said the trade the Hornets got was great, but you can't assume that they couldn't turned up more assets with the other trade.

[RazorBaLade]

Well, technically, they're part owners voicing their opinion on the potential trade. They do own part of the team. Wouldn't it be odd if they DIDN'T have a say?

Um no. They had to hire a 3rd party who would act as the final decision maker. Anything besides that would be wrong. Thats exactly what is wrong with collusion and why conflicts of interest are not allowed. It'd be like a judge sentencing himself for a crime he commited... Guess what hes gonna do.

Hint: It was the GM

[GOBB]

NOH has no leverage! They either take whats offered or lose Paul for NOTHING!


http://www.radiationbusiness.com/Portals/67697/images/breaking-news.gif


LAC Clippers send Eric Gordon, Kaman, Aminu AND Minny 2012 first rd pick to NOh for Chris Paul and a pair of 2nd rd picks



Wait what! :roll:

[HurricaneKid]

The veto was complete and utter bullshit. He did it to make an example of Chris Paul and punish the Lakers. This deal was better in the short term, but we still don't know what the GM would have done with Kevin MArtin, Scola and Odom.

Well we saw what the market was for Odom. The only team LA could get to take his contract was its arch rival and they got a top 20 protected pick sometime in the next 6 years. In English that means they got NOTHING. Martin is a horribly inefficient scorer who hasn't been on a playoff team since he was but a small role player 6 years ago. Scola is making 10M/ and his deal is for 4 more yrs. Its not a terrible deal but he is already an older player and it makes no sense as NO rebuilds. NONE of the deals was even decent. In contrast NO gets EJ for 3M this year, probably getting 10M in value this year alone.

People keep saying the Minny pick is 6-10. Vegas, who has all the money in the world riding on it, says otherwise. Their EV Win Total is the lowest in the NBA and there are only a few teams whose EVs are even close. This is comfortably a top 3 pick and likely a top 1 pick. Perry III and Barnes would have been the #2 pick last year and are likely 5-8 this year.

[DuMa]

Just did what any competent GM would do. That Demps guy was a fool. Who ships off a franchise player before training camp at the very first deal? After that NBA clearly waited it out, shopped him around, drove up his value and ended up getting the perfect package for there situation.
WojYahooNBA:
Unreal. The NBA is making Dell Demps talk on a conference call with David Stern tonight. Just unreal.

talk about rubbing stern rubbing it in his face :oldlol:

[NBA2k-Monster23]

I think the trade the hornets got was good. I am a Lakers fan but it is what it is. Hopefully the Lakers can get Dwight and send a bif F U to Stern.

[Meticode]

he got it by breaking the rules... but theres no doubt he got himself a great deal.
Sadly, he didn't break any rules.

[longtime lurker]

Well we saw what the market was for Odom. The only team LA could get to take his contract was its arch rival and they got a top 20 protected pick sometime in the next 6 years. In English that means they got NOTHING. Martin is a horribly inefficient scorer who hasn't been on a playoff team since he was but a small role player 6 years ago. Scola is making 10M/ and his deal is for 4 more yrs. Its not a terrible deal but he is already an older player and it makes no sense as NO rebuilds. NONE of the deals was even decent. In contrast NO gets EJ for 3M this year, probably getting 10M in value this year alone.

People keep saying the Minny pick is 6-10. Vegas, who has all the money in the world riding on it, says otherwise. Their EV Win Total is the lowest in the NBA and there are only a few teams whose EVs are even close. This is comfortably a top 3 pick and likely a top 1 pick. Perry III and Barnes would have been the #2 pick last year and are likely 5-8 this year.

Are you kidding me about Odom? The move was obviously a dumb panic move by the Lakers. His trade value is a lot higher than a trade exception, Lakers probably think they could use that exception to gain assets. Now onto Martin and Scola, they are supposedly horrible contracts and players yet they could net the likes of Pau Gasol. Something is not adding up, New Orleans wanted them for a reason and I wouldn't be suprised to find out that they had secondary deals lined up for them. And as far as the Minny pick think logically, if you're the GM of Minnesota you're not bringing in Adelman to coach a top 5 lottery team. You'll bring in veterans and make a playoff push especially knowing that hey WTF we don't have a pick this year. Look at what Adelman did for the Rockets last year, I expect to see something along the same lines with Minnesota either making a low playoff seed or just missing it.

[Rake2204]

NOH has no leverage! They either take whats offered or lose Paul for NOTHING!


http://www.radiationbusiness.com/Portals/67697/images/breaking-news.gif


LAC Clippers send Eric Gordon, Kaman, Aminu AND Minny 2012 first rd pick to NOh for Chris Paul and a pair of 2nd rd picks



Wait what! :roll:
That's why I've been so confused about this whole thing. I kept reading posts stating Chris Paul would never be able to be dealt after the initial Lakers trade was denied. I couldn't figure out why an acting owner of the Hornets had to take whatever was thrown out there right away.

For whatever reason, whether it was Demps making the wrong call or the owners making the right call (or a mix of both) the Hornets seemed to have been able to draw a much better deal. Works for me.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Are you kidding me about Odom? The move was obviously a dumb panic move by the Lakers. His trade value is a lot higher than a trade exception, Lakers probably think they could use that exception to gain assets. Now onto Martin and Scola, they are supposedly horrible contracts and players yet they could net the likes of Pau Gasol. Something is not adding up, New Orleans wanted them for a reason and I wouldn't be suprised to find out that they had secondary deals lined up for them. And as far as the Minny pick think logically, if you're the GM of Minnesota you're not bringing in Adelman to coach a top 5 lottery team. You'll bring in veterans and make a playoff push especially knowing that hey WTF we don't have a pick this year. Look at what Adelman did for the Rockets last year, I expect to see something along the same lines with Minnesota either making a low playoff seed or just missing it.

NOLA did have moves lined up. They were planning to flip Kevin Martin to Minny. Scola would have good trade value as well. None of the guys they would have received from Houston and L.A. would have been there by the start of the season except maybe Scola. They would have virtually gotten the same assets they got from the Clippers before (Picks, young talent, cap relief). But because it's the Lakers, it was a rip off for them.

[NumberSix]

Um no. They had to hire a 3rd party who would act as the final decision maker. Anything besides that would be wrong. Thats exactly what is wrong with collusion and why conflicts of interest are not allowed. It'd be like a judge sentencing himself for a crime he commited... Guess what hes gonna do.

Hint: It was the GM
Dude, when I sell a property, I hire a realtor to negotiate deals, but at the end of the day, they don't do NOTHING without my final say so cuz I owns that shit.

Don't get me wrong, they OBVIOUSLY just didn't want the Lakers getting another star player. That's just plain as day.

[UtahJazzFan88]

What rules were broken? If Mitch made a trade sending Bynum to the Sixers for Iguodala and change? Buss would deny it. When you realize who owns the NOH you'll be able to seperate Stern the commish from Stern the owner.

Exactly. Solid comparison, but since it's Stern and it involved the Lakers, it's breaking the rules. :confusedshrug:

[RazorBaLade]

Dude, when I sell a property, I hire a realtor to negotiate deals, but at the end of the day, they don't do NOTHING without my final say so cuz I owns that shit.

Don't get me wrong, they OBVIOUSLY just didn't want the Lakers getting another star player. That's just plain as day.

its not the same thing because its not a conflict of interest tho. thats whats im trying to explain.

ur example is not accurate, my example was.

It is the case of a judge who's word is final that has to sentence himself to whether or not he committed a crime. Conflict of interest; always must involve a 3rd party that has the final say.

[HurricaneKid]

Are you kidding me about Odom? The move was obviously a dumb panic move by the Lakers. His trade value is a lot higher than a trade exception, Lakers probably think they could use that exception to gain assets. Now onto Martin and Scola, they are supposedly horrible contracts and players yet they could net the likes of Pau Gasol. Something is not adding up, New Orleans wanted them for a reason and I wouldn't be suprised to find out that they had secondary deals lined up for them. And as far as the Minny pick think logically, if you're the GM of Minnesota you're not bringing in Adelman to coach a top 5 lottery team. You'll bring in veterans and make a playoff push especially knowing that hey WTF we don't have a pick this year. Look at what Adelman did for the Rockets last year, I expect to see something along the same lines with Minnesota either making a low playoff seed or just missing it.


So its your opinion that Kupchak could have gotten a lot more for Odom but chose not to... So he could give him away to their rivals??

I LAUGH at your position that Minny is a borderline playoff team. Their o/u in Vegas is 15.5-60.5. You are suggesting they go ~36-30 which is a 130% increase in wins over what the betting lines are. I mean seriously, go bet $1M on it or something.

[noob cake]

Stern GOAT GM:bowdown:
Stern corrupt commish :mad:
Clippers garbage franchise giving up too much for CP :cry:
Rockets and Lakers so damaged through all this :violin:

[blacknapalm]

So its your opinion that Kupchak could have gotten a lot more for Odom but chose not to... So he could give him away to their rivals??

I LAUGH at your position that Minny is a borderline playoff team. Their o/u in Vegas is 15.5-60.5. You are suggesting they go ~36-30 which is a 130% increase in wins over what the betting lines are. I mean seriously, go bet $1M on it or something.

odom was a panic move and he asked to be traded. don't act like odom would be traded like that in any other instance. kupchak's options were limited. they should have still waited for cooler heads to prevail and see if odom cooled off over the week. while minny won't make the playoffs, don't count them out in a shortened season with coach adelman. slim chance but it's not impossible

[Dasher]

Actually Kevin Martin is an incredibly efficient scorer. His defense is horrid, but the way he gets his points, from 3 pointers and FTs, is the most efficient way to score in basketball.

[longtime lurker]

So its your opinion that Kupchak could have gotten a lot more for Odom but chose not to... So he could give him away to their rivals??

I LAUGH at your position that Minny is a borderline playoff team. Their o/u in Vegas is 15.5-60.5. You are suggesting they go ~36-30 which is a 130% increase in wins over what the betting lines are. I mean seriously, go bet $1M on it or something.

Odom was a panic move, how many times does it have to be said. It was a dumb move you'll get no argument from me on that, but if you truly believe that his true market value is a salary dump then I don't know what to tell you. Again let's think with some logic, it's counterproductive to for Minnesota to tank the season. They plan on competing for a playoff spot or else why hire Adelman so he can look pretty on the sidelines? Minnesota has the nucleus for a playoff team, but they need to remove their duplication of positions and bring in some vets. It's a shortened season, don't be surprised if they sneak up on a lot of teams.

[(e)]

I'm not question that he got a better deal from the Clippers.

I am still questioning that he vetoed the original trade, in terms of talent it was fair.

But I really don't care, it's over now and we can play ball.

[The Iron Fist]

For years we've heard how important Odom is to the success of the Lakers, and now, all of a sudden,
Gordon is better than Odom? I thought Odom was a large reason as to why people consideed the Lakers "stacked". Now, getting Gordon is a better deal .lol

[Quotable]

Lets see, Odom is better than Kaman, Kevin Martin is a taller version of Gordon and Scola is an international superstar while Aminu is some young scrub. The draft pick helps but it's 50/50 whether they hit on it. So the core of a bad Clipper team is better than pieces from two good teams (Lakers and Rockets)? not really seeing it

[HurricaneKid]

Odom was a panic move, how many times does it have to be said. It was a dumb move you'll get no argument from me on that, but if you truly believe that his true market value is a salary dump then I don't know what to tell you. Again let's think with some logic, it's counterproductive to for Minnesota to tank the season. They plan on competing for a playoff spot or else why hire Adelman so he can look pretty on the sidelines? Minnesota has the nucleus for a playoff team, but they need to remove their duplication of positions and bring in some vets. It's a shortened season, don't be surprised if they sneak up on a lot of teams.

So you think Demps could have gotten a great package for Odom but that Kupchak had to take a terrible one? I don't even understand what you are saying. I mean Kupchak>>>>Demps. But somehow you are resolute that Demps would have turned a thin asset into something of actual value.

I'm not suggesting Minnesota tanks the season. I'm suggesting they have the worst talent in the league. All their talent is a slow big with a big bottom and a guy they got on a rookie deal for a 2nd rd pick because no one else in the league wanted him. And a bunch of young fellas that haven't amounted to anything. This is genuinely a terrible team.

[GOBB]

I'm not question that he got a better deal from the Clippers.

I am still questioning that he vetoed the original trade, in terms of talent it was fair.

But I really don't care, it's over now and we can play ball.

The original trade wasnt bad, it was just not what NOH wanted. The recent trade tells me the owners for NOH felt it was best that they stack young talent as opposed to established ones like Kmart, Scola, Odom. Getting Eric Gordon and Minnesota 2012 first rd pick which will be the top half of the lottery. Combine that with having a lottery pick of your own? Thats a better direction for a franchise to go. You could also sell that franchise more than the original trade that was denied. Think about it.

This trade package makes way more sense in terms of rebuilding from ground up with young talent as opposed to the initial deal that was rejected. NOH could go the route that OKC went. Look at the makeup of that team.

2007-Durant
2008-Westbrook, Ibaka
2009-Harden

Today if I asked you what kind of team is OKC? A team that relocated to OK of all places (football country, far from bball). You would say what? That team can compete for the NBA title correct?

I cant predict that would happen with NOH. They could easily botch up draft picks and young talent fizzles on some Chicago Bulls sh!t. But if I had a choice of this direction vs the initial trade of Scola, Odom, Kmart? Give me the LAC deal. I'll take the young talent and build on that. Only guy that is eating up salary to my knowledge is Okafor. Good financial situation imo.

[HurricaneKid]

For years we've heard how important Odom is to the success of the Lakers, and now, all of a sudden,
Gordon is better than Odom? I thought Odom was a large reason as to why people consideed the Lakers "stacked". Now, getting Gordon is a better deal .lol

None of you Laker fans understand that its not about the talent. Its about the contract and the future. Odom is a great player. But his value making 9M/ in the open market was a ~25th pick.

Gordon is aoung stud with a bright future who is making 3M this year. He is probably going to be worth ~14M to NO this year which means they are getting 11M in value. Then next year they control him as well, though they don't control his income.

[B]

NOH has no leverage! They either take whats offered or lose Paul for NOTHING!


http://www.radiationbusiness.com/Portals/67697/images/breaking-news.gif


LAC Clippers send Eric Gordon, Kaman, Aminu AND Minny 2012 first rd pick to NOh for Chris Paul and a pair of 2nd rd picks



Wait what! :roll:Clippers just got hosed

[B]

None of you Laker fans understand that its not about the talent. Its about the contract and the future. Odom is a great player. But his value making 9M/ in the open market was a ~25th pick.

Gordon is aoung stud with a bright future who is making 3M this year. He is probably going to be worth ~14M to NO this year which means they are getting 11M in value. Then next year they control him as well, though they don't control his income.We don't know the value until the Lakers use the trade exception. Until then you're just talking out your ass

[longtime lurker]

So you think Demps could have gotten a great package for Odom but that Kupchak had to take a terrible one? I don't even understand what you are saying. I mean Kupchak>>>>Demps. But somehow you are resolute that Demps would have turned a thin asset into something of actual value.

I'm not suggesting Minnesota tanks the season. I'm suggesting they have the worst talent in the league. All their talent is a slow big with a big bottom and a guy they got on a rookie deal for a 2nd rd pick because no one else in the league wanted him. And a bunch of young fellas that haven't amounted to anything. This is genuinely a terrible team.

Man you are thick. For the last time the Odom trade was a panic move. What don't you get that this wasn't normal circumstances. Under normal circumstances Odom would fetch a hell of a lot more than the 25th pick in the draft. Minny doesn't have bad talent, they just don't have any direction or leadership. What makes you think this Minnesota team is going to remain the same throughout the whole season. If they are smart they'll trade for some vets (hmmm they were interested in getting Kevin Martin who supposedly has no trade value) and get rid of the duplicate positions. Contrary to popular belief most teams suck because they would rather be cheap and rebuild instead of trying to be competitive.

[The Iron Fist]

None of you Laker fans understand that its not about the talent. Its about the contract and the future. Odom is a great player. But his value making 9M/ in the open market was a ~25th pick.

Gordon is aoung stud with a bright future who is making 3M this year. He is probably going to be worth ~14M to NO this year which means they are getting 11M in value. Then next year they control him as well, though they don't control his income.so unproven talent is better than actual talent now? Lol. You cats kill me. Just last week, "the Lakers need Odom". Today , Gordon> Lamar because he makes less money.
Lol

[Droid101]

There's no doubt about that.

Eric Gordon is a great young shooting guard. Chris Kaman is a big expiring contract and one of the better centers in the league. Aminu is still very young and has promise and they're probably going to have 2 (one very high) lottery picks in a stacked draft.

They could end up with a core of Eric Gordon - Michael Gilchrist/Harrison Barnes - Andre Drummond/Anthony Davis :applause:
The pick will be in the 9-11 range. Sorry folks, the t wolves will be OK this season. I predict the hronets with a worse record (which helps them of course).

[miles berg]

For years we've heard how important Odom is to the success of the Lakers, and now, all of a sudden,
Gordon is better than Odom? I thought Odom was a large reason as to why people consideed the Lakers "stacked". Now, getting Gordon is a better deal .lol

Yes, DUH, you don't rebuild with 32 year old players.

[alanLA92]

Yup, he definitely got the better deal. :applause:

[Quickening]

Does the end justify the means..... I don't know.

[bih]

The pick will be in the 9-11 range. Sorry folks, the t wolves will be OK this season. I predict the hronets with a worse record (which helps them of course).

lol

bookmarked this post

to bump at end of season

[LakersReign]

Like i said before in another thread, had Stern given SOLID reasons as to exactly why he killed the deal TWICE, REASONABLE NBA fans to include REAL Lakers fans , may still have been upset about it. But would've probably understood from a game perspective. Stern didn't even give us that courtesy. He made something up on the fly to save himself and hauled a** before we could ask question he couldn't answer cuz it would make him look even worse.

Yeah, he may have gotten a better deal, but I thought that's what contract negotiation were all about. Not killing a deal everybody agreed to after the fact. Then we're still supposed to believe as commissioner, he had no idea what Lebron, Wade and Bosh were up to.:no:

[RedBlackAttack]

I'm not question that he got a better deal from the Clippers.

I am still questioning that he vetoed the original trade, in terms of talent it was fair.

But I really don't care, it's over now and we can play ball.
Obviously, in retrospect, he vetoed the original trade because he thought that he could get much, much better... which is what any owner in that situation should do.

Also, the fact that Stern got such an incredible package for CP3 shows just how much of a horrible GM Demps is. I guess Stern realized it, too, since he was quickly relieved of his duty.

Take notes, Dell... Stern just showed you how to get maximum value for a superstar. This deal makes Odom, Scola and Martin look like a joke.

What a GREAT deal for New Orleans. I'm not sure if they have any fans, but if they do, they should sleep well tonight. Holy sh!t.

[DirtySanchez]

Yup. I said it in another thread. I'm still salty with how it went down since it ruined the Lakers' team chemistry, but you can't fault the guy for holding out since he got exactly what he wanted.
Dude has leverage because guess what he is the commish. Yeah he got the better deal...bullied the Clips to do it.

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

Dude has leverage because guess what he is the commish. Yeah he got the better deal...bullied the Clips to do it.

this...

[RedBlackAttack]

Dude has leverage because guess what he is the commish. Yeah he got the better deal...bullied the Clips to do it.
How did he bully the Clippers into it? :oldlol:

They didn't have to make a trade. They clearly wanted CP3 and didn't care what they had to give up to get him. When you have a superstar, you go for the gusto.

That was just some great GMing. You guys are just being silly. Why did the Clippers have to make a trade? They didn't.

[comerb]

Stern bet on Sterling's willingness to shortchange his franchise in order to sell tickets as opposed to Sterling's intent on actually doing what was best for his franchise in the future.

Was probably a safe bet where Sterling is concerned. And to be fair, I'll be tuning in to the Clippers this year.

[longtime lurker]

Obviously, in retrospect, he vetoed the original trade because he thought that he could get much, much better... which is what any owner in that situation should do.

Also, the fact that Stern got such an incredible package for CP3 shows just how much of a horrible GM Demps is. I guess Stern realized it, too, since he was quickly relieved of his duty.

Take notes, Dell... Stern just showed you how to get maximum value for a superstar. This deal makes Odom, Scola and Martin look like a joke.

What a GREAT deal for New Orleans. I'm not sure if they have any fans, but if they do, they should sleep well tonight. Holy sh!t.

Let's be real. If all the trade pieces were the same, except the team that Paul was heading to wasn't name Lakers, Knicks or Heat there's no way he's vetoing that deal.

[RedBlackAttack]

Let's be real. If all the trade pieces were the same, except the team that Paul was heading to wasn't name Lakers, Knicks or Heat there's no way he's vetoing that deal.
That is total speculation.

What isn't speculation is this... He decided not to OK a deal so that he could put in work to make a much better deal for the franchise that he was managing.

All of this crying and whining can really be boiled down to this. You may not like how he went about it, but there is no denying the final product. If my team had been without an owner or GM and our superstar player was being moved, I would have wanted the best possible deal for our future.

Stern provided that for the Hornets. Why should they care who he made the deal with or what the circumstances were?

Stern's biggest mistake was allowing Dell Demps to act as GM. Aside from that, I don't have a problem with the way this went down.

[WeGetRing2012]

When will everyone see that Stern calling the shots for the Hornets was a complete conflict of interest. He was not acting as a GM but as a seller. If the Hornets were looking to add talent to their team why would that have been a big deal? Just because they wanted to sell the team Stern decided FOR THEM that it was time to rebuild. That makes absoultely no sense and he wasnt thinking about the long-term sucess of the team. Lottery picks are not hard to come by all you have to do is suck to get them. If the Hornets wanted more talent on their team they should have been able to get the players they wanted. This trade was purely for "business reasons" and dont think otherwise.

[RedBlackAttack]

When will everyone see that Stern calling the shots for the Hornets was a complete conflict of interest. He was not acting as a GM but as a seller. If the Hornets were looking to add talent to their team why would that have been a big deal? Just because they wanted to sell the team Stern decided FOR THEM that it was time to rebuild. That makes absoultely no sense and he wasnt thinking about the long-term sucess of the team. Lottery picks are not hard to come by all you have to do is suck to get them. If the Hornets wanted more talent on their team they should have been able to get the players they wanted. This trade was purely for "business reasons" and dont think otherwise.
It isn't just the likely lottery pick. Eric Gordon is a better piece than anything in that original deal. Forget everything else.

Hell, I would take the pieces of Gordon, Aminu and Kaman over Odom, Scola and Martin. The likely lottery pick was just the cherry on top.

This isn't about rebuild vs. reload. This is about a decent deal vs. a fantastic deal. I wish there was a Hornets fan on this board so that we could get their thoughts. After all, New Orleans was the franchise losing its superstar. Do you think there is any doubt in their mind which of these deals is better, regardless of how you try to spin it?

[WeGetRing2012]

It isn't just the likely lottery pick. Eric Gordon is a better piece than anything in that original deal. Forget everything else.

Hell, I would take the pieces of Gordon, Aminu and Kaman over Odom, Scola and Martin. The likely lottery pick was just the cherry on top.

This isn't about rebuild vs. reload. This is about a decent deal vs. a fantastic deal. I wish there was a Hornets fan on this board so that we could get their thoughts. After all, New Orleans was the franchise losing its superstar. Do you think there is any doubt in their mind which of these deals is better, regardless of how you try to spin it?

Gordon?? Are serious have you taken a look at their current roster the team is in shambles now and Gordon is not going to solve their problems. And that pick may not even be a lottery pick. Stern wanted to the sell the team plain and simple. No GM in the league would trade away a player like Paul for what they got. Look at the deron williams trade

[upside24]

He got a better deal but I obviously would have rather had Paul on the Lakers.

[YAWN]

Lets see if the Timberpups make the playoffs

lol

[DMAVS41]

he got a better deal, but not much better. especially because we'll never know what the hornets could have turned odom, martin, and scola into.

its been confirmed that martin and odom were going to be flipped immediately. and scola is about as attractive as a player can get with his current contract. not to mention the pick and dragic.

this clippers deal is a 9 out of 10. the lakers/rockets deal was an 8.5 out of 10.

i also think people are really over-rating gordon and aminu....but that is just me.

[HurricaneKid]

Now people have the TWolves making the playoffs ??!??!?

I mean WOW. In trying to pretend the LAL/HOU deal was even in the same vicinity as the LAC one you are coming up with some peculiar positions...

[Shepseskaf]

He did but the whole thing is still shady. Clipps were alseep at the wheel yet get CP3 cos of collusion..
Very shady. The whole things stinks of corruption and backroom dealing.

While he may have gotten better players in the second deal, the continued cratering of league credibility among the general public represents the real damage done here.

Dictator Stern already had a widespread reputation as a fixer, and the league as his personal WWE. This entire transaction just confirms what many thought about him in the first place.

For the sake of the integrity of the league Stern needed to go at least a decade ago, and all of his sycophants -- like Stu Jackson -- cleaned out. I guess its too late now, the dictator will hold on to the job until he dies.

[Fatal9]

he got a better deal, but not much better. especially because we'll never know what the hornets could have turned odom, martin, and scola into.

its been confirmed that martin and odom were going to be flipped immediately. and scola is about as attractive as a player can get with his current contract. not to mention the pick and dragic.

this clippers deal is a 9 out of 10. the lakers/rockets deal was an 8.5 out of 10.

i also think people are really over-rating gordon and aminu....but that is just me.

Um, no. It was a dumb trade for the Hornets. No lottery team in their right mind would offer them an unprotected top 10 pick for Odom (last year of contract) or Martin (second last year, always injured). Makes no sense for the type of teams with high draft picks to acquire those guys. Scola is the only guy who might net you something nice but nothing like a potential top 5 pick, a SG on the verge of becoming an all-star, another starting caliber young prospect. Odom got traded away for nothing...that's what his trade value is because he's expiring (so worthless to any team that's not a playoff team). And seeing as the coaching staff was "excited" in acquiring all those players, there's no guarantees Hornets even trade them away, and if they don't they are a border 9th or 10th seed. Trade was garbage in every imaginable scenario.

NO is suddenly a very attractive franchise now. Potentially two top 5 draft picks in an very good draft, all-star talent at SG, expiring contract in Kaman, a nice young prospect in Aminu. Laker deal was retarded, if it netted you anything close to all that, those guys wouldn't be getting traded for peanuts.

[WeGetRing2012]

Um, no. It was a dumb trade for the Hornets. No lottery team in their right mind would offer them an unprotected top 10 pick for Odom (last year of contract) or Martin (second last year, always injured). Makes no sense for the type of teams with high draft picks to acquire those guys. Scola is the only guy who might net you something nice but nothing like a potential top 5 pick, a SG on the verge of becoming an all-star, another starting caliber young prospect. Odom got traded away for nothing...that's what his trade value is because he's expiring (so worthless to any team that's not a playoff team). And seeing as the coaching staff was "excited" in acquiring all those players, there's no guarantees Hornets even trade them away, and if they don't they are a border 9th or 10th seed. Trade was garbage in every imaginable scenario.

NO is suddenly a very attractive franchise now. Potentially two top 5 draft picks in an very good draft, all-star talent at SG, expiring contract in Kaman, a nice young prospect in Aminu. Laker deal was retarded, if it netted you anything close to all that, those guys wouldn't be getting traded for peanuts.

So what was the motive for this trade to sell a team or to create a good team? There lies the problem why in the hell are moves being made to make the franchise attractive to buyers makes no sense the Hornets front office was happy with what they were getting. This team is gonna be in awful in years to come if this draft picks (2 of them!) dont work out they will be screwed. So Stern put the weight of the franchise on 2 undrafted players!!!

[DMAVS41]

Um, no. It was a dumb trade for the Hornets. No lottery team in their right mind would offer them an unprotected top 10 pick for Odom (last year of contract) or Martin (second last year, always injured). Makes no sense for the type of teams with high draft picks to acquire those guys. Scola is the only guy who might net you something nice but nothing like a potential top 5 pick, a SG on the verge of becoming an all-star, another starting caliber young prospect. Odom got traded away for nothing...that's what his trade value is because he's expiring (so worthless to any team that's not a playoff team). And seeing as the coaching staff was "excited" in acquiring all those players, there's no guarantees Hornets even trade them away, and if they don't they are a border 9th or 10th seed. Trade was garbage in every imaginable scenario.

NO is suddenly a very attractive franchise now. Potentially two top 5 draft picks in an very good draft, all-star talent at SG, expiring contract in Kaman, a nice young prospect in Aminu. Laker deal was retarded, if it netted you anything close to all that, those guys wouldn't be getting traded for peanuts.

Totally disagree. The Lakers deal actually gives more flexibility....NO could have decided to be the worst team in the league by flipping everyone...or they could have decided to try and make the playoffs.

Trades like this go down all the time....LOL at everyone acting like Gordon and Aminu are sure things. I also love how Kaman's expiring contract is somehow this big deal now when Odom was basically in the same boat and a more sought after talent anyway. Odom's trade value was not worth what the Lakers got.

Like I said, I do rate the Clippers deal better, but people are getting way too excited about Gordon and Aminu.

Not to mention...if Gordon is as good as everyone is saying right now. The Hornets are either going to have to pay up big time next year....or lose him as well. IIRC Gordon only has this year remaining and has a qualifying offer for next year. Either way, the Hornets might only have him for a year or two. Will Gordon stay? Big question actually....which is why long term this deal is over-rated right now.

The whole money thing is silly as well because the Hornets never would have ended up paying those guys. There was a confirmed offer from the Wolves for Martin. Odom is easily worth more than what the Lakers got for him...especially if it was a 3 team deal to a contender

[GOBB]

LAC have Eric Gordon a promising SG who is arguably a top 5 SG at a very deep position PLUS 2 lottery picks in the 2012 NBA draft. Their own and Minnesotas. We all know how deep this draft will be courtesy of top talent deciding not to declare for the 2011 draft. How that scenerio isnt that much better than aquiring a collection of Kevin Martin, Odom, Scola which would have pushed them further down from the lottery is beyond me. No team looking to rebuild would go about it in this manner.

For a franchise like the NOH that was told "You wont get a better deal", "You have NO leverage. Stupid business decision to keep killing deals when Paul has no intentions on resigning", "You get something instead of nothing, teams dont have to give you what you demand", "You're nuts if you think LAC will give you all of that!. He sure made some fans look really silly. He also did something many didnt think was possible. Called teams bluff and guess what? He won.

[GOBB]

Totally disagree. The Lakers deal actually gives more flexibility....NO could have decided to be the worst team in the league by flipping everyone...or they could have decided to try and make the playoffs.

Trades like this go down all the time....LOL at everyone acting like Gordon and Aminu are sure things. I also love how Kaman's expiring contract is somehow this big deal now when Odom was basically in the same boat and a more sought after talent anyway. Odom's trade value was not worth what the Lakers got.

Like I said, I do rate the Clippers deal better, but people are getting way too excited about Gordon and Aminu.

Not to mention...if Gordon is as good as everyone is saying right now. The Hornets are either going to have to pay up big time next year....or lose him as well. IIRC Gordon only has this year remaining and has a qualifying offer for next year. Either way, the Hornets might only have him for a year or two. Will Gordon stay? Big question actually....which is why long term this deal is over-rated right now.

The whole money thing is silly as well because the Hornets never would have ended up paying those guys. There was a confirmed offer from the Wolves for Martin. Odom is easily worth more than what the Lakers got for him...especially if it was a 3 team deal to a contender

For what? Thats stupid.

And who is overrating Aminu? He's hardly even mentioned in this deal. :oldlol:

The win is Eric Gordon the 22 yr old SG who broke out last season avg prior to the injury (tailed off when he returned) and Minnesotas unprotected 2012 first rder where most project them to end up with a top 5 pick. Who here is really giving Aminu any love? Show me please :confusedshrug:

[rhythmic]

There's no doubt about that.

Eric Gordon is a great young shooting guard. Chris Kaman is a big expiring contract and one of the better centers in the league. Aminu is still very young and has promise and they're probably going to have 2 (one very high) lottery picks in a stacked draft.

They could end up with a core of Eric Gordon - Michael Gilchrist/Harrison Barnes - Andre Drummond/Anthony Davis :applause:

Yep, but it could also prolong anyone buying the team until that actually happens. I wouldn't be overlooking Minnesota either. I hate Stern, I think his veto was rubbish. LA gave up Gasol & Odom to acquire Paul. That's a lot of talent, certainly a lot more talent/potential then what the Clippers sacrificed but because Clipper's offer fits Stern's criteria (aka agenda), then to most it makes more sense.

To spite Stern and tarnish his reputation I would absolutely love if Gordon became a superstar this year, got NO's a decent record (so they wouldn't get a top ten pick), Minnesota were fighting for a playoff spot and Eric bolted in two years and New Orleans ends up with nothing; and just moves to Seattle or something. That vetoed deal would be talked about for ages.

He not only screwed LA from making a reasonably fair deal to improve their team for the future but also destroyed their season by ruining their team chemistry. His decision had a huge impact and devastating consequences for the future. I hope his image gets tarnished because of this. I truly hate this guy.

[GOBB]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[Sarcastic]

he got a better deal, but not much better. especially because we'll never know what the hornets could have turned odom, martin, and scola into.

its been confirmed that martin and odom were going to be flipped immediately. and scola is about as attractive as a player can get with his current contract. not to mention the pick and dragic.

this clippers deal is a 9 out of 10. the lakers/rockets deal was an 8.5 out of 10.

i also think people are really over-rating gordon and aminu....but that is just me.

:lol @ 8.5/10 for old guys on a rebuilding team. That deal was a franchise killer.

[Sarcastic]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[rhythmic]

So Stern isnt allowed to nix any trade if you as a fan deem it fair? So fans become part owners in all of this? :confusedshrug:

He has every right to deny a trade dispite it being a good, fair deal. Why must he accept the first kneejerk trade for Chris Paul the franchise superstar? No one can think over what was being accepted and say "Hold off on that, I dont like it. I believe we can get more.". Thats too unreasonable in your world or you hate Stern so much any logical explanation would never make sense nor sit right with you? I'm thinking the latter here.

If people can sit aside their dislike against Stern they would admit what was done wasnt that bad.

:facepalm Stern made this decision?
Have you not followed this drama since last Thursday?
It was the owners crying out to Stern to veto this deal, and he actually approve of their request. It had nothing to deal with the reasonableness of the trade, and everything to do with other deadbeat owners whinnying that the Lakers yet again came out on top. Stern then took his sweet ass time to publicize why the trade was nixed; initially he simply stated "for basketball reasons". I guess he needed some extra time to sugarcoat his decision a little more for PR reasons.

I guess you're one of those people who is too naive to see that and actually believes Stern did it for New Orleans and not because other owners were complaining.

And last I checked what they did is called collusion.
The only shitty part about this is it's almost impossible to prove it in court because unlike corporations, I'm sure the NBA and the owners don't record board meetings for litigation purposes.

As a Laker fan, how do you not hate Stern?
It has corruption written all over it. If you team were involved in something like this, you'd be pissed too.

[Sarcastic]

He vetoed it before Gilbert emailed his letter. This was his decision, not the other owner's.

[bagelred]

I think it's VERY debatable whether Stern got the better trade. I would ultimately say this trade is better, only because Hornets were targeting young potential.

Eric Gordon clearly is a really good player, but there's also no guarantee he stays. He's a restricted free agent in 7 months. And could be unrestricted in 19 months if he chooses. Would the trade then be a disaster?

Chris Kaman is probably gone in 7 months to a desperate team for 4 years, $60 million :lol

Minnesota's pick might NOT be that valuable. With Rubio, Love, Williams, Beasley, Randolph, and Adelman coaching, it's not an absolute they are in bottom 8 in the league.....we'll see.......plus any draft pick, even a high one, is still a crap shoot.

I think people underrate Lakers package. Odom, Scola, Martin, and Dragic are three VERY good players (all are in the top 75 in the league) and one very promising player. None of those guys are "old". Plus another #1. Hornets could make playoffs right now with core including Okafor and Ariza. Which means more money for the franchise. Plus Hornets could get more assets individually in pieces if they trade Odom or Martin or Scola, etc.

The Hornets are basically potential. Everyone seems to overrate potential sometimes.....but if I'm the Hornets, since Gordon is the best player in any deal, I would still take it. But really, it could go either way. Depends what you are looking for.

[rhythmic]

That's not his responsibility to worry about a team's chemistry when it decides to put players on the trading block.

:oldlol: Oh god.
When Pau was traded to LA, did you hear much about it? I certainly didn't.
Mitch and LA's front office keeps things quiet for that specific reason, as most other teams. The three GM's agreed to the deal, and obviously it went public. An hour later, it was vetoed. So yeah, he did kill LA's chemistry because I am sure if that information was known before the negotiations began, LA might have never even attempted to make that deal.

The only reason you're hearing so much about which LA player is going out lately, is because superstars are involved. That's pretty understandable, but don't give a GM empowerment and autonomy and then rectify that agreement.

The whole fiasco was just disgustingly done.

[rhythmic]

He vetoed it before Gilbert emailed his letter. This was his decision, not the other owner's.

:roll:
Yep, I'm out of this thread.
Not even going to waste my time...

[Sarcastic]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[Sarcastic]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[Sarcastic]

Here

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/09/sports/basketball/paul-set-to-join-lakers-as-part-of-3-team-deal.html



The New Orleans Hornets had agreed to send Paul, a four-time All-Star, to the Lakers in a three-team deal that involved the Houston Rockets. Only 45 minutes after the teams reached an agreement, Stern called the Hornets and vetoed the deal, according to a person involved in the deal.


He rejected it 45 minutes after the trade happened. Keep believing what you want though. Don't let facts get in the way of that.

[rhythmic]

:lol That's not his responsibility to worry about a team's chemistry if one of the players is too soft, and gets emotional because he feels dejected.

It is his responsibility to avoid information asymmetry though. The GM's dealing with New Orleans should know up front who is ultimately in charge. Based on the reactions from everyone, that was not the case and no one had the slightest idea that Stern can actually "step-in" as an owner and disapprove.

So when the trade leaked out because they agreed to the trade, it was subsequently determined that the "NBA" had to approve the deal. If that was known up-front, that information probably would have never been leaked until Stern approved the deal.

[GOBB]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[rhythmic]

Here

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/09/sports/basketball/paul-set-to-join-lakers-as-part-of-3-team-deal.html





He rejected it 45 minutes after the trade happened. Keep believing what you want though. Don't let facts get in the way of that.

:facepalm Comprehension isn't your strong suit, eh?
Peace out.

[Sarcastic]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[Sarcastic]

:roll:
Yep, I'm out of this thread.
Not even going to waste my time...



:facepalm Comprehension isn't your strong suit, eh?
Peace out.


I guess keeping your word isn't yours.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I'll admit that I was wrong about Stern's veto. Gordon is a good building block, not a franchise guy butt just a step below. Possible All-Star.

[rhythmic]

Who owns the Hornets? Damn sure aint the GM Dell. There is someone or a group who has final say and control over the Hornets. When you figure that one out maybe just maybe you can stop with this "owners cried to Stern and Stern intervened" nonsense. When in FACT they had EVERY RIGHT to STOP A TRADE. Your hate for Stern has clouded anything being reasonable with this situation. Its hilarious. Hornets resubmitted a trade so Lakers would aquire Chris Paul and who backed out of the 3 team trade?

If an owner doesnt want to deal with a team dispite the deal being fair for reasons like say "I dont want that franchise to aquire my franchise player." then why are you :mad: at that? Stern may not admit he nixed the deal because he didnt want Paul being apart of the Lakers and the potential push for Dwight Howard to come to fruition. If that was ever the case (Dwight to Lakers after aquiring Paul). Stern may or may not have openly admitted he doesnt want franchise players like Paul to dictate to a franchise "This is where I want to go. You either make it happen or lose me for good.". And guess what? Since Stern is apart of the group who owns the Hornets he can not only think this way but he can decide what trade he wants to push through or not.

Like my example earlier in this thread. Mitch cant trade Bynum without Buss consent. If Mitch made a deal getting rid of Bynum and it was a FAIR deal but didnt bring back what BUSS wanted? Guess what? That deal doesnt happen. If the Hornets had an actual owners or group of owners not named the NBA? Would you react this way?

Hornets resubmitted a trade that would give L.A what they wanted...who backed out? Chris Paul could have still been a Laker after the revised deal was submitted. Stop hating bro.

This is exactly where you're wrong.
No one knew that the owners had the ultimate say; it was believe by Demps (and he so said it himself on numerous occasions) that he had the autonomy to seek any deals he sees fit. He was the ultimate caregiver for the owners, that was his responsibility, why he was hired. That is why they said Stern vetoed the deal, but I know for a damn fact that a lot of owners influenced his decision.

In fact reading that first sentence made me realize just how much out of the loop you really are. Maybe gather some case facts, it will make your argument have a little more veracity. Right now, you're stating your opinion.

League owners do not have a say, because it's considered collusion since they own other teams in this league. That is why they appointed Demps as the GM, to delegate those responsibilities (team management) to him. Stern does have the ultimate say in all this as the owners have appointed him as their representative. But his decisions must be free of bias and what is in the best interest of the team. Based on the complains we've seen from Gilbert and Cuban, I find it very hard to believe that Stern's decision wasn't self-reflect, free of influence.

Honestly, I am happy for the Clips. I am happy for Chris Paul; but even if I wasn't a Laker fan, I'd still be pissed with how Stern decided to handle this situation. He never made it clear as to who gets to make the final decisions for New Orleans. Mitch said so himself a day after the trade was vetoed; and Mitch is a professional general manager who obviously follows a due diligence process. I'd him before I trust you, as to whether or not, that information was clear from the get-go.

[Blue&Orange]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242556



LA traded Gasol top the rockets for 3 players and Odom to the Hornets for a trade exception, then traded Odom to the Mavs for a traded exception and a pick, and somehow this was a panic move? Odom is more valuable? lol

Delusion --> Is a false belief held with absolute conviction despite superior evidence.

[Sarcastic]

You're making some serious accusations. Show some proof that this was the owner's call, and not Stern's.

[GOBB]

I think it's VERY debatable whether Stern got the better trade. I would ultimately say this trade is better, only because Hornets were targeting young potential.

Eric Gordon clearly is a really good player, but there's also no guarantee he stays. He's a restricted free agent in 7 months. And could be unrestricted in 19 months if he chooses. Would the trade then be a disaster?

Chris Kaman is probably gone in 7 months to a desperate team for 4 years, $60 million :lol

Minnesota's pick might NOT be that valuable. With Rubio, Love, Williams, Beasley, Randolph, and Adelman coaching, it's not an absolute they are in bottom 8 in the league.....we'll see.......plus any draft pick, even a high one, is still a crap shoot.

I think people underrate Lakers package. Odom, Scola, Martin, and Dragic are three VERY good players (all are in the top 75 in the league) and one very promising player. None of those guys are "old". Plus another #1. Hornets could make playoffs right now with core including Okafor and Ariza. Which means more money for the franchise. Plus Hornets could get more assets individually in pieces if they trade Odom or Martin or Scola, etc.

The Hornets are basically potential. Everyone seems to overrate potential sometimes.....but if I'm the Hornets, since Gordon is the best player in any deal, I would still take it. But really, it could go either way. Depends what you are looking for.

Thats the bottomline. I'd rather go the youth, potential route. And yes there are cons with that, but there are also cons with the initial trade package as well. I'll take my chances on collecting young talent as opposed to playing for "now" and being competitive but not competitive enough to make any difference.

Also even if Minnesota finishes 8th in the standings (from the bottom of course) they are still in position to land a top 3 lottery pick. History has shown just because you end up with the terrible record doesnt mean you get the first pick.

Wolves won 17 games last year
Clippers won 32 and slotted in 8th

Clippers won the lottery and Wolves were runner ups.

So Adelman can take that 17 win team and somehow pull a miracle out his ass where they win 30 or so. They'll still be in position to land a top 3 lottery pick in a deep draft class.

So to claim the pick might not be valuable? Total disagree.

Andre Drummond
Perry Jones
Harrison Barnes
Quincy Miller
Anthony Davis
Jared Sullinger
Austin Rivers
Michael Gilchrist-Kidd

Not factoring if any of these dudes decide to stay another year. I just cant see the Wolves (Hornets having rights) not being in position to draft one of these dudes. I'm sorry. Adelman would be a bigger GOD than dare I say it...


http://www.enchgallery.com/images/sun_rays1.jpg


http://chesapeakechiliandsports.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/tebow_is_risen.jpg


:bowdown:

[rhythmic]

There is no GM that has 100% full autonomy. If you think a Stern was going to give a rookie GM full control, then I have a bridge to sell you. If that were the case, then Dell Demps would have more power than any other GM in the league, and he has zero stake in the team since he will be fired as soon as a new owner is found.

How naive are you?

:oldlol: That is true if a team actually has an owner. What I am telling you is Stern's decision was influence by other owners. He did not make a bias-free decision to veto this deal. Since every owner owns a share of the team, it is called collusion.

Demps was appointed to negate this "conflict of interest", and of course Stern does have the ultimate say as a representative of the owners. However, an owner can not influence his decision because it is a conflict of interest. If you're not an owner of the Lakers, do you want them getting both Paul & Howard? That's exactly what was happening, and that's exactly why Stern received so much backlash.

[GOBB]

This is exactly where you're wrong.
No one knew that the owners had the ultimate say; it was believe by Demps (and he so said it himself on numerous occasions) that he had the autonomy to seek any deals he sees fit. He was the ultimate caregiver for the owners, that was his responsibility, why he was hired. That is why they said Stern vetoed the deal, but I know for a damn fact that a lot of owners influenced his decision.

In fact reading that first sentence made me realize just how much out of the loop you really are. Maybe gather some case facts, it will make your argument have a little more veracity. Right now, you're stating your opinion.

League owners do not have a say, because it's considered collusion since they own other teams in this league. That is why they appointed Demps as the GM, to delegate those responsibilities (team management) to him. Stern does have the ultimate say in all this as the owners have appointed him as their representative. But his decisions must be free of bias and what is in the best interest of the team. Based on the complains we've seen from Gilbert and Cuban, I find it very hard to believe that Stern's decision wasn't self-reflect, free of influence.

Honestly, I am happy for the Clips. I am happy for Chris Paul; but even if I wasn't a Laker fan, I'd still be pissed with how Stern decided to handle this situation. He never made it clear as to who gets to make the final decisions for New Orleans. Mitch said so himself a day after the trade was vetoed; and Mitch is a professional general manager who obviously follows a due diligence process. I'd him before I trust you, as to whether or not, that information was clear from the get-go.

Hornets sent a new trade proposal that had Chris Paul going to L.A

Who pulled out of the deal?

[rhythmic]

You're making some serious accusations. Show some proof that this was the owner's call, and not Stern's.

:roll: So Gilbert's letter isn't a juicy enough implication to you?

[Sarcastic]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[rhythmic]

Hornets sent a new trade proposal that had Chris Paul going to L.A

Who pulled out of the deal?

Doesn't this even further solidifies my point as to why Stern vetoed multiple of Lakers deals?

[Sarcastic]

Hornets sent a new trade proposal that had Chris Paul going to L.A

Who pulled out of the deal?

It was collusion bro. :roll:

[rhythmic]

That was sent AFTER Stern vetoed it.

Link.

[Sarcastic]

Link.

http://tweetscenter.com/cavs-owner-dan-gilbert-cries-foul-over-cp3-trade-in-email/7724/


As for Dan Gilbert email obtained by Y! Sports, timestamp shows he didn’t send to Stern until after 10 PM ET. Trade already had been killed.

Here's the timeline of the trade. He killed it 45 minutes after they agreed according to NYT.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CP3timeline-111210/breaking-chris-paul-trade-timeline

[HurricaneKid]

http://tweetscenter.com/cavs-owner-dan-gilbert-cries-foul-over-cp3-trade-in-email/7724/



Here's the timeline of the trade. He killed it 45 minutes after they agreed according to NYT.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CP3timeline-111210/breaking-chris-paul-trade-timeline

Well done sir.

[DMAVS41]

For what? Thats stupid.

And who is overrating Aminu? He's hardly even mentioned in this deal. :oldlol:

The win is Eric Gordon the 22 yr old SG who broke out last season avg prior to the injury (tailed off when he returned) and Minnesotas unprotected 2012 first rder where most project them to end up with a top 5 pick. Who here is really giving Aminu any love? Show me please :confusedshrug:

For what? I have no idea. I also think it would be stupid....but sometimes franchises do stuff like that. I agree they should suck.

And guess what...flipping martin, odom, and scola like they would have makes them much worse than they will be this year with Gordon.

The Minnesota pick is great, but I'm confused why people aren't talking about Gordon staying. He could easily leave the shit franchise that is the Hornets. No owner, and its going to be a long rebuilding process. Why would he stay? Only reason is money. Are the Hornets going to be willing to pay Gordon enough to stay? Will Gordon want to go to a contending team? Who know...but its a big part of this deal actually.

Because in a year or two...Gordon could be gone and the Hornets might not get anything back for him.

Stuff like this happens all the time. I'm surprised people here aren't aware enough to realize that just getting young and picks doesn't assure you of anything. The Hornets could end up like the Clippers of the last decade....

[DMAVS41]

:lol @ 8.5/10 for old guys on a rebuilding team. That deal was a franchise killer.

dude. why are you so dense? martin was going to be flipped immediately to the wolves. odom was going to be traded as well. the only player with a prayer of staying was scola. and he's on a bargain contract and he's a very good player.

i can't believe people think the hornets were just done. its absurd.

can't wait until gordon just walks and the Hornets end up with aminu, pick, and an expiring contract for paul.

[HurricaneKid]

For what? I have no idea. I also think it would be stupid....but sometimes franchises do stuff like that. I agree they should suck.

And guess what...flipping martin, odom, and scola like they would have makes them much worse than they will be this year with Gordon.

The Minnesota pick is great, but I'm confused why people aren't talking about Gordon staying. He could easily leave the shit franchise that is the Hornets. No owner, and its going to be a long rebuilding process. Why would he stay? Only reason is money. Our the Hornets going to be willing to pay Gordon enough to stay? Will Gordon want to go to a contending team? Who know...but its a big part of this deal actually.

Because in a year or two...Gordon could be gone and the Hornets might not get anything back for him.

Stuff like this happens all the time. I'm surprised people here aren't aware enough to realize that just getting young and picks doesn't assure you of anything. The Hornets could end up like the Clippers of the last decade....

Gordon is a RFA next year so if he tries to go they can decide to match and he stays. If he ends up signing a 4 year deal they can match and keep him there for 5 years. So really they know that no matter what they have him for at least the next two years (if he decides he wants to go no matter what he signs a 1 yr deal with another team; NO matches it and they have him next year too). Which is the same as Paul, who is not a cinch to stay himself.

[Sarcastic]

dude. why are you so dense? martin was going to be flipped immediately to the wolves. odom was going to be traded as well. the only player with a prayer of staying was scola. and he's on a bargain contract and he's a very good player.

i can't believe people think the hornets were just done. its absurd.

can't wait until gordon just walks and the Hornets end up with aminu, pick, and an expiring contract for paul.

If Odom had so much value, why did the Lakers dump him to their rivals for basically nothing? You telling me they could have gotten real value for him, but instead gave him to the team that swept them just so they can be nice to him?

The way you boost Scola/Martin/Odom, it would seem like they could get the first and second pick of the draft for them.

Those guys are at BEST, worth late first round (in the high 20s) picks. Probably second round is more likely.

[HurricaneKid]

dude. why are you so dense? martin was going to be flipped immediately to the wolves. odom was going to be traded as well. the only player with a prayer of staying was scola. and he's on a bargain contract and he's a very good player.

i can't believe people think the hornets were just done. its absurd.

can't wait until gordon just walks and the Hornets end up with aminu, pick, and an expiring contract for paul.

Its not just "pick". Its the best possible pick going into the season in the best draft in 8 years.

Gordon CAN'T WALK. He is getting a mere 3M this year, a TREMENDOUS VALUE, and is an RFA next year.

The market for Odom wasn't exactly robust. Unless you think Kupchak is so bad he gave away Odom to his rival when he had a plethora of other options.

Who were the Wolves going to give up? Hell who do you want off the Wolves?

Scola has 4/40M left. Thats NOT a bargain.

[Sarcastic]

Scola with 4/20m would be a bargain. Scola with 4/40m in an albatross.

[Sarcastic]

Scola with 4/20m would be a bargain. Scola with 4/40m in an albatross.

[RintjeRitsma]

dude. why are you so dense? martin was going to be flipped immediately to the wolves. odom was going to be traded as well. the only player with a prayer of staying was scola. and he's on a bargain contract and he's a very good player.

i can't believe people think the hornets were just done. its absurd.

can't wait until gordon just walks and the Hornets end up with aminu, pick, and an expiring contract for paul.

Martin and Odom aren't going to get you better picks and talent then MIN 2012 and Gordon! It's pretty obvious.

[DMAVS41]

If Odom had so much value, why did the Lakers dump him to their rivals for basically nothing? You telling me they could have gotten real value for him, but instead gave him to the team that swept them just so they can be nice to him?

The way you boost Scola/Martin/Odom, it would seem like they could get the first and second pick of the draft for them.

Those guys are at BEST, worth late first round (in the high 20s) picks. Probably second round is more likely.

Yes...I do think Odom has more value than that. I think the Lakers made a mistake and did that to just get rid of an upset player that they didn't want to pay.

But take a step back and think for a second. Lets say you get 3 top 25 picks for those guys and some solid young players to make the numbers work.

You then get 4 picks, Dragic, and at 3 to 5 young players to fill out the roster. You are also assured of being one of the worst teams in the league this year. And you don't have to worry about paying Gordon.

I just can't wait until the:

"where is eric gordon going to go" talk to start up in 2 years....and if he does stay, he's going to demand a high salary. is he worth it? not sure...he's not a franchise guy.

like I said, i do think this deal is better....but marginally at best....and there is more risk to it in my opinion.

i just don't see how three guys that are easy to trade proven players, a young player like dragic, and a pick is any worse. it gives the hornets options.

the fact that you think that deal was a franchise killer is a ****ing joke. but you are too dense to comprehend what was actually going to happen.

[32jazz]

Um, no. It was a dumb trade for the Hornets. No lottery team in their right mind would offer them an unprotected top 10 pick for Odom (last year of contract) or Martin (second last year, always injured). Makes no sense for the type of teams with high draft picks to acquire those guys. Scola is the only guy who might net you something nice but nothing like a potential top 5 pick, a SG on the verge of becoming an all-star, another starting caliber young prospect. Odom got traded away for nothing...that's what his trade value is because he's expiring (so worthless to any team that's not a playoff team). And seeing as the coaching staff was "excited" in acquiring all those players, there's no guarantees Hornets even trade them away, and if they don't they are a border 9th or 10th seed. Trade was garbage in every imaginable scenario.

NO is suddenly a very attractive franchise now. Potentially two top 5 draft picks in an very good draft, all-star talent at SG, expiring contract in Kaman, a nice young prospect in Aminu. Laker deal was retarded, if it netted you anything close to all that, those guys wouldn't be getting traded for peanuts.

So small market teams complain about competitive balance , but they consistently refuse to even try to compete by tanking? And you all think taking is a good thing?

At least the Nuggets still tried to compete when Melo left
:cheers:


Tanking the franchise for a couple seasons in hopes that their 19 year old lottery picks turn into a franchise player several seasons down the road?
Kwame Brown, Kandi man, Adam Morrison etc, were all lottery picks:facepalm

So that is the master plan for small franchises like Charlotte/ NO? Tank every several years in hopes that you get a franchise player who can help you win down the road someday?

Even if a free agent wanted to consider those places why would they go to a franchise who doesn't bother trying to compete?


Is Shaq', or D Rob or Duncan in next years draft?

[DMAVS41]

Its not just "pick". Its the best possible pick going into the season in the best draft in 8 years.

Gordon CAN'T WALK. He is getting a mere 3M this year, a TREMENDOUS VALUE, and is an RFA next year.

The market for Odom wasn't exactly robust. Unless you think Kupchak is so bad he gave away Odom to his rival when he had a plethora of other options.

Who were the Wolves going to give up? Hell who do you want off the Wolves?

Scola has 4/40M left. Thats NOT a bargain.

Scola on 4/40 is a bargain. Tyson Chandler just signed for 20 million more. Are you serious? Teams would be lining up for scola. LOL

And Gordon can walk after next year.....and if he doesn't....hornets will have to pay up big for a player that isn't a franchise guy.

Gordon could easily end up leaving the Hornets and then this deal is a joke.

[IGOTGAME]

Minnesota's pick might NOT be that valuable. With Rubio, Love, Williams, Beasley, Randolph, and Adelman coaching, it's not an absolute they are in bottom 8 in the league.....we'll see.......plus any draft pick, even a high one, is still a crap shoot.
.


this. no way the T-Wolves finish in the bottom 5. The only way they get into that pick level(Drummond/Davis/PJIII/Lamb) is if they win a crap shoot.

[DMAVS41]

Martin and Odom aren't going to get you better picks and talent then MIN 2012 and Gordon! It's pretty obvious.

But you act like Gordon is going to stay for sure. He's not. And its Martin, Scola, and Odom. At worst that is three top 25 picks and 3 to 5 young players. And that deal included Dragic and a pick.

The Hornets also gave up 2 2nd round picks in this clippers deal as well.

Like I said, if Gordon ends up leaving in 2 years. This trade was a disaster. Don't ignore that. Its a real possibility.

[GOBB]

Gordon is a RFA next year so if he tries to go they can decide to match and he stays. If he ends up signing a 4 year deal they can match and keep him there for 5 years. So really they know that no matter what they have him for at least the next two years (if he decides he wants to go no matter what he signs a 1 yr deal with another team; NO matches it and they have him next year too). Which is the same as Paul, who is not a cinch to stay himself.

AND to add on he was one of the 2 big pieces they were fighting to get. LAC wouldnt give up Eric Gordon initially and NOH said no Paul. Well guess what changed? LAC gave up Eric Gordon which is what NOH wanted. Which tells me they are really high on him. And you factor in what you said? They'll match whatever it is he is offered because they believe he is that good. Afterall, they held up a deal until he was included. So the he could leave stuff is for the birds really. He's going to be apart of the NOH for awhile, unless someone wants to make the argument they will overpay for a guy who isnt that good. Thats another topic/argument.

But I'm not concerned with the threat of Eric Gordon leaving this sh!t franchise as it was put. He's not an unrestricted free agent no time soon.

[DMAVS41]

AND to add on he was one of the 2 big pieces they were fighting to get. LAC wouldnt give up Eric Gordon initially and NOH said no Paul. Well guess what changed? LAC gave up Eric Gordon which is what NOH wanted. Which tells me they are really high on him. And you factor in what you said? They'll match whatever it is he is offered because they believe he is that good. Afterall, they held up a deal until he was included. So the he could leave stuff is for the birds really. He's going to be apart of the NOH for awhile, unless someone wants to make the argument they will overpay for a guy who isnt that good. Thats another topic/argument.

But I'm not concerned with the threat of Eric Gordon leaving this sh!t franchise as it was put. He's not an unrestricted free agent no time soon.

Uhhh...yes he is. Its 2 years away if he doesn't do something after this year to make a long term commitment.

What does it matter if they are high on him? He's still a player that isn't a franchise guy that might not stay long term. I love how everyone ignores the complete joke of a state the Hornets are in right now. A league owned team with a GM that has no power. Paul wanted out. But Gordon is a lock to stay? LOL

[Sarcastic]

Yes...I do think Odom has more value than that. I think the Lakers made a mistake and did that to just get rid of an upset player that they didn't want to pay.

But take a step back and think for a second. Lets say you get 3 top 25 picks for those guys and some solid young players to make the numbers work.

You then get 4 picks, Dragic, and at 3 to 5 young players to fill out the roster. You are also assured of being one of the worst teams in the league this year. And you don't have to worry about paying Gordon.

I just can't wait until the:

"where is eric gordon going to go" talk to start up in 2 years....and if he does stay, he's going to demand a high salary. is he worth it? not sure...he's not a franchise guy.

like I said, i do think this deal is better....but marginally at best....and there is more risk to it in my opinion.

i just don't see how three guys that are easy to trade proven players, a young player like dragic, and a pick is any worse. it gives the hornets options.

the fact that you think that deal was a franchise killer is a ****ing joke. but you are too dense to comprehend what was actually going to happen.

Hey, let's not the FACTS or anything get in the way of what DMAVS41 thinks. Apparently you got some inside information from some GMs around the league that they would have given up good value for Odom, but Mitch Kupchak is just an idiot and gave him away for free.

How about you posting some of this inside information for us, and tell us what the Lakers could have really gotten for him.

[GOBB]

Scola on 4/40 is a bargain. Tyson Chandler just signed for 20 million more. Are you serious? Teams would be lining up for scola. LOL

And Gordon can walk after next year.....and if he doesn't....hornets will have to pay up big for a player that isn't a franchise guy.

Gordon could easily end up leaving the Hornets and then this deal is a joke.

He's a RFA, NOH will match any offer. How is he easily leaving? :confusedshrug:

And yes NOH could potentially pay big for Eric Gordon. But they held up a LAC deal because they wanted HIM. Which shows how much they value him. Whether he ever becomes a franchise player or lives up to the future contract he may get? We dont know. But that 2012 first rd pick + Eric Gordon could be a nice duo similar to LAC Griffin/Gordon was.

NOH is not letting Eric Gordon just walk. They didnt let Chris Paul walk. Just saying. :confusedshrug:

[IGOTGAME]

Uhhh...yes he is. Its 2 years away if he doesn't do something after this year to make a long term commitment.

What does it matter if they are high on him? He's still a player that isn't a franchise guy that might not stay long term. I love how everyone ignores the complete joke of a state the Hornets are in right now. A league owned team with a GM that has no power. Paul wanted out. But Gordon is a lock to stay? LOL

who is going to require franchise money from some GM. I really don't get the excitement over Gordon. He is a good player but keep it in perspective.

[DMAVS41]

Hey, let's not the FACTS or anything get in the way of what DMAVS41 thinks. Apparently you got some inside information from some GMs around the league that they would have given up good value for Odom, but Mitch Kupchak is just an idiot and gave him away for free.

How about you posting some of this inside information for us, and tell us what the Lakers could have really gotten for him.

So teams don't make dumb moves? I think it was a rushed panic move by the Lakers.....lets ignore that Kobe and his teammates were pissed and don't understand it.

Lets ignore the caliber of player Odom is.

But its not even important for my argument. He still got them a first round pick. So even if we sell low on martin, odom, and scola....you are getting at worst 3 top 25 picks and young players.

You know what else? Minny might be decent this year. That pick is being heavily over-rated right now. The Hornets could miss out on one of the elite players in the draft this year with the Minny pick....easily could.

[Sarcastic]

So teams don't make dumb moves? I think it was a rushed panic move by the Lakers.....lets ignore that Kobe and his teammates were pissed and don't understand it.

Lets ignore the caliber of player Odom is.

But its not even important for my argument. He still got them a first round pick. So even if we sell low on martin, odom, and scola....you are getting at worst 3 top 25 picks and young players.

You know what else? Minny might be decent this year. That pick is being heavily over-rated right now. The Hornets could miss out on one of the elite players in the draft this year with the Minny pick....easily could.

Show me the deals they could have gotten.

Give me an example.

[HurricaneKid]

i just don't see how three guys that are easy to trade proven players, a young player like dragic, and a pick is any worse. it gives the hornets options.

the fact that you think that deal was a franchise killer is a ****ing joke. but you are too dense to comprehend what was actually going to happen.

One pick is the most coveted pick at this point of the season in 8 years. The other pick is a late first round pick that means very little. You downplay the good one and are playing up the LA pick.

In NO's case it very literally could have killed their franchise; hell their franchise may die anyways. Locked in to 23M next year for Scola and Martin is not an enticing position, especially compared to cost controlled young talent.

[Sarcastic]

Gordon is not going anywhere either. He is going to get slightly more than they would be paying to Scola.

Gordon >>> Scola.

[DMAVS41]

He's a RFA, NOH will match any offer. How is he easily leaving? :confusedshrug:

And yes NOH could potentially pay big for Eric Gordon. But they held up a LAC deal because they wanted HIM. Which shows how much they value him. Whether he ever becomes a franchise player or lives up to the future contract he may get? We dont know. But that 2012 first rd pick + Eric Gordon could be a nice duo similar to LAC Griffin/Gordon was.

NOH is not letting Eric Gordon just walk. They didnt let Chris Paul walk. Just saying. :confusedshrug:

Its up to Gordon. He can take the qualifying offer and become an unrestricted free agent next season. Right?

Its not just up to the Hornets....and if they do pay big money for Gordon. I'm saying I don't like that. I think he's over-rated right now. I don't think he ever has the chance of being a franchise guy. So when a team that loses money and struggles has to pay near max money for a guy that can't be the best player on a title team.....it puts them in a bad position.

That is how I see Gordon. You either have to overpay to keep him....or let him go at some point and risk losing him for very little.

[Dizzle-2k7]

if any other team other than the lakers offered Odom/Martin/Scola/Pick it woulda been taken QUICK.

but stern is just player hating plain and simple.

eric gordon/scrub kaman (hasnt done shlt in years)/aminu is very inferior to odom/martin/scola.

nba = :facepalm

[DMAVS41]

One pick is the most coveted pick at this point of the season in 8 years. The other pick is a late first round pick that means very little. You downplay the good one and are playing up the LA pick.

In NO's case it very literally could have killed their franchise; hell their franchise may die anyways. Locked in to 23M next year for Scola and Martin is not an enticing position, especially compared to cost controlled young talent.

You can't ignore that facts. Martin was going to be trade immediately to the Wolves. The Wolves already had an offer. So that is gone. It would have been up to the Hornets what they wanted to do with Scola. Teams would have been lining up to get him.

Look...its just a fact that 4/40 on scola is a great deal in the current market. I'm not going to debate facts.

There was literally no chance of that deal killing the franchise. None.

[Sarcastic]

$10 million/year for a guy who is not top 10 at PF is a bad deal.

[Dizzle-2k7]

$10 million/year for a guy who is not top 10 at PF is a bad deal.

scola is easily worth 10+ a year

[HurricaneKid]

So teams don't make dumb moves? I think it was a rushed panic move by the Lakers.....lets ignore that Kobe and his teammates were pissed and don't understand it.

Lets ignore the caliber of player Odom is.

But its not even important for my argument. He still got them a first round pick. So even if we sell low on martin, odom, and scola....you are getting at worst 3 top 25 picks and young players.

You know what else? Minny might be decent this year. That pick is being heavily over-rated right now. The Hornets could miss out on one of the elite players in the draft this year with the Minny pick....easily could.

Ugh. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You have created equivalence with a top 20 protected pick at some point in the next 6 years with the unprotected pick of the team Vegas has pegged with the lowest win EV in the deepest draft in 8 years.

[DMAVS41]

Show me the deals they could have gotten.

Give me an example.

I just did. You said it yourself. You said that each of those guys was worth a top 25 pick.

So lets break down the worst possible deal if they trade all those guys. We already know that Odom and Martin were gone for sure. So here is the deal if they flip them:

4 first round picks, Dragic, and at least 3 to 5 young players to fill out the roster.

And you want me to believe that Gordon (not committed long term), Aminu, pick, and Kaman is so much better?

Not to mention that Gordon, Kaman, and the rest of the Hornets might be decent this year. Don't they still have Okafor and Ariza? Jack as well I think.

That team might not be terrible....and guess what? That hurts them long term.

[DMAVS41]

Ugh. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You have created equivalence with a top 20 protected pick at some point in the next 6 years with the unprotected pick of the team Vegas has pegged with the lowest win EV in the deepest draft in 8 years.

I'm not equating it at all. I've said the Minny pick is great. But so is 4 top 25 picks at worst. So is 3 to 5 young players in addition to Dragic.

What if the Wolves are decent? What if the pick isn't top 8? What happens then?

What if Gordon leaves? What if the Hornets play well this year with Gordon, Kaman, Okafor, Ariza, Jack..etc.?

I'm telling you what I would have done. I would flipped Martin, Scola, and Odom for the above and made sure that we sucked and got a top 5 pick for sure. With the current roster? Its possible they are decent. And that is a bad thing.

I also don't like Gordon nearly as much as you do....have to factor that in.

[Sarcastic]

scola is easily worth 10+ a year

You would put 1/6 of the cap in a guy who is 11th at scoring for his position, and 14th in rebounding? :facepalm

[DMAVS41]

You would put 1/6 of the cap in a guy who is 11th at scoring for his position, and 14th in rebounding? :facepalm

Have you looked at the contracts of other players.

Chandler is making 20 million more. Same with Nene. Same with M. Gasol. Hell, Deandre Jordan is making more.

You clearly don't watch Scola and you clearly don't pay attention to the current market.

Scola is on a good contract for 4 more years. Just a fact mate.

[RintjeRitsma]

But you act like Gordon is going to stay for sure. He's not. And its Martin, Scola, and Odom. At worst that is three top 25 picks and 3 to 5 young players. And that deal included Dragic and a pick.

How many good players leave after their first rookie contract? Serieusly.

Deal 1: Let's say Martin, Scola and Odom is getting them 5 young players (that's not 'at worse' at all). What's the chance of a franchise changer being amongs them?? Dragic sure isn't one and the pick they would have got in the deal wasn't that special either. That's seven young players there, at best including two players who are above average to good. Any rebuilding franchise could find ways to get they, this deal isn't going to kickstart your rebuild.

Deal 2: Let's say Kamans expiring contract gets you one young player. Amuni is a young player. Eric Gordon is a young player. Minnesota will get you a topten pick in a very good draft. That's four young players there, at least including one player that's proven to be very good (one of the best young players at his position) and one very promising pick. That's a far better way to kickstart your rebuild.

[Sarcastic]

I just did. You said it yourself. You said that each of those guys was worth a top 25 pick.

So lets break down the worst possible deal if they trade all those guys. We already know that Odom and Martin were gone for sure. So here is the deal if they flip them:

4 first round picks, Dragic, and at least 3 to 5 young players to fill out the roster.

And you want me to believe that Gordon (not committed long term), Aminu, pick, and Kaman is so much better?

Not to mention that Gordon, Kaman, and the rest of the Hornets might be decent this year. Don't they still have Okafor and Ariza? Jack as well I think.

That team might not be terrible....and guess what? That hurts them long term.

I said late first round, not top 25. That means between 25 - 60, not 1-25.

[DMAVS41]

How many good players leave after their first rookie contract? Serieusly.

Deal 1: Let's say Martin, Scola and Odom is getting them 5 young players (that's not 'at worse' at all). What's the chance of a franchise changer being amongs them?? Dragic sure isn't one and the pick they would have got in the deal wasn't that special either. That's seven young players there, at best including two players who are above average to good. Any rebuilding franchise could find ways to get they, this deal isn't going to kickstart your rebuild.

Deal 2: Let's say Kamans expiring contract gets you one young player. Amuni is a young player. Eric Gordon is a young player. Minnesota will get you a topten pick in a very good draft. That's four young players there, at least including one player that's proven to be very good (one of the best young players at his position) and one very promising pick. That's a far better way to kickstart your rebuild.

But I don't want a franchise changer in this deal. Its too early for that. And I don't think Gordon is that. That is my point. I don't like Gordon as much as you and most people that love this deal do. I wouldn't want him on a team like the Hornets because its going to be too expensive to keep him. The Hornets aren't the Mavs or Lakers. They aren't going to pay and pay and pay. So if Gordon is maxed...which is what ultimately its going to take....i think it pigeon holes the franchise with a guy that isn't a franchise guy.

I would have rather taken back bledsoe and another future pick instead of Gordon and just made sure we sucked for the next few years. The problem is that the Hornets roster might be decent now.

[Sarcastic]

Have you looked at the contracts of other players.

Chandler is making 20 million more. Same with Nene. Same with M. Gasol. Hell, Deandre Jordan is making more.

You clearly don't watch Scola and you clearly don't pay attention to the current market.

Scola is on a good contract for 4 more years. Just a fact mate.

You're comparing guys who are centers to a power forward in a league that is saturated with power forwards, and lacks centers. Great job. :facepalm

Chandler and Nene are also younger than Scola.

[DMAVS41]

I said late first round, not top 25. That means between 25 - 60, not 1-25.

Now you are just arguing semantics. But again, it really doesn't matter for my argument at all.

I love how draft picks are now for sure things. Tell that to the Cavs....

[DMAVS41]

You're comparing guys who are centers to a power forward in a league that is saturated with power forwards, and lacks centers. Great job. :facepalm

It doesn't matter position. Its about impact and value. If you think those guys are worth that much more....so be it.

I don't. Scola is simply not overpaid at 4/40 in this league. You clearly haven't seen him play. Way too many other players are on bad contracts for you to claim Scola isn't a bargain right now.

And its secure. So a team trading for him knows they don't have to deal with any bs about paying him again. He's an attractive player on a solid contract.

Teams would be lining up for him....or he's just a good player to have on your team.

[Sarcastic]

Now you are just arguing semantics. But again, it really doesn't matter for my argument at all.

I love how draft picks are now for sure things. Tell that to the Cavs....

I am not arguing semantics. You are misquoting me.


Those guys are at BEST, worth late first round (in the high 20s) picks. Probably second round is more likely.

You've turned that into me saying they are top 25 picks.

[RintjeRitsma]

I would have rather taken back bledsoe and another future pick instead of Gordon and just made sure we sucked for the next few years. The problem is that the Hornets roster might be decent now.

Who is going to make them decent!? NOH is goinig to suck record wise, give Gordon room to grow (who will offer him a MAX in the summer by the way??) Why go for future picks? A very good (but rare) outcome of a 'future pick' is a player like Gordon. A building block for a team that can be good in a few years time.

[LJJ]

How many good players leave after their first rookie contract? Serieusly.

I don't think it has ever happened under the current rules. No rookie has ever left their first big pile of guaranteed money on the table.

Eric Gordon is basically going to spend 10+ million dollars and risk another full season just so he can become unrestricted? Not happening. You get paid, that is the only correct choice.

[HurricaneKid]

Its up to Gordon. He can take the qualifying offer and become an unrestricted free agent next season. Right?


No. He is paid ~3M this year. If he takes the QO next summer (highly unlikely) he will make ~5M next year. So if thats the case NO will get a TON of value over the next few years for a really good young player. I would rather pay Gordon 8M the next two years than Paul 34M. They are both UFAs after 2 years (assuming Paul takes the player option as he promised to get the deal done).

[Crown&Coke]

Scola-Very Good
Odom-Very Good
Martin-Very Good
Late pick-eh
Dragic-Pretty good

vs

EJ-Going to be amazing
Aminu-eh
Kaman-(depends on which one, injured one or all-star)-eh or good
Minny Pick-Potentially very good

Salary wise, NOLA got the better deal this time

Talent wise, NOLA 1st deal was better

I think they did the best for the team trying to find a new owner, no owner wants to inherit that much salary for a middle of the pack team.

But I think the Clips messed up, the rumors of the lakers jumping back into probably forced their hand, when it shouldn't have. They should have stuck to their original deal of EITHER EJ or The Minny Pick, they gave up all their assets for CP3, and who plays the 2 guard? McCants? Billups?

at least this drama is over

[DMAVS41]

No. He is paid ~3M this year. If he takes the QO next summer (highly unlikely) he will make ~5M next year. So if thats the case NO will get a TON of value over the next few years for a really good young player. I would rather pay Gordon 8M the next two years than Paul 34M. They are both UFAs after 2 years (assuming Paul takes the player option as he promised to get the deal done).

So I'm right. He can become an unrestricted free agent after next season if he chooses.

And if he doesn't...pony up NOH....you are going to be paying a guy that probably can't be the best or 2nd best player on a contending team a lot of money.

This is exactly my point. That is why I don't like the deal as much as you do. You think Gordon is on another level than I do.

[Blue&Orange]

So I'm right.

:lol :oldlol: :roll:

[Pointguard]

Gordon is going to be a top five scorer in the league (there is a lot of good scorers on the same team these days) if he is healthy. He's not going to anyplace else and have a team built around him at the two guard unless another team is in the Hornet's situation.

Odom, Martin and Scola would be great as pieces on a good team but I wouldn't build around them. They are what they are and at 30 years (Martin 29) of age you are looking at a two year plan of winning if you take them on as main pieces, and unlike Gordon you have no way of getting compensation - in Gordon's case you might get an allstar in return if he decided to leave. Odom, Martin and Scola are not going to be top anything in the mean time. Worse off they will help you win too many games to suck and get bad draft picks :lol. To be point blank honest its a two year plan of frustration. No closer, no hope, no way to turn it around. As Odom ages he's going to have to move into Scola's spot. As Scola ages he going to have to move to the bench. As Martin ages his defense will not exist. By themselves they are good players but together - they're the tragic trilogy.

Then couple this with this draft having two guys that could be franchise players in the front court and two other guys that look like they will be steady and prolific in the frontcourt. This deal is definitely a better deal. At least you have the potential of 3 stars for years vs. one potential star at a lower draft pick. New Orleans did good for themselves.

[Pointguard]

I don't recall seeing Aminu play but I hear he has star potential too.

[triangleoffense]

There's no doubt about that.

Eric Gordon is a great young shooting guard. Chris Kaman is a big expiring contract and one of the better centers in the league. Aminu is still very young and has promise and they're probably going to have 2 (one very high) lottery picks in a stacked draft.

They could end up with a core of Eric Gordon - Michael Gilchrist/Harrison Barnes - Andre Drummond/Anthony Davis :applause:

That core is garbage

[GOBB]

To throw a lil offtopic. Imagine if NOH and Minnesota finish the lottery process with the top 2 picks in the 2012 draft. How much conspiracy, its officially rigged I dont care what anyone says ARGUMENTS would flare up?

Could you imagine NOH walkin away with the top 2 picks in the draft next year? :oldlol:

I want to see it!


Its up to Gordon. He can take the qualifying offer and become an unrestricted free agent next season. Right?

Its not just up to the Hornets....and if they do pay big money for Gordon. I'm saying I don't like that. I think he's over-rated right now. I don't think he ever has the chance of being a franchise guy. So when a team that loses money and struggles has to pay near max money for a guy that can't be the best player on a title team.....it puts them in a bad position.

That is how I see Gordon. You either have to overpay to keep him....or let him go at some point and risk losing him for very little.

I dont know if Eric Gordon is a franchise player or will become one honestly. I think he can be a star player that can be paired with whatever talent you take in 2012 (with Minny pick AND your own which imo will be lottery as well). Maybe they get lucky and hit a homerun on a franchise player. Not sure, I just like the youth and talent and I understand this could all flop.

I just love the situation NOH are in. I hate to compare it to OKC. But I hope it follows the same path atleast. Like it more than the established proven talent in the win now situation and trying to flip them into something (trade) down the line.

Edit: Eric Gordan be a bit overrated on this board. I think he is an arguable top 5 SG, some think he is a lock, a few top 3. Not sure who thinks he is a franchise player but if they do? Eh, I'm not putting money down on that now. I liked what I saw when he emerged before injury. I can live with a really good complimentary star player.

[GOBB]

That core is garbage

Translation: I'm mad Paul isnt a Laker. :cry:

[hawkfan]

Chris Kaman will probably also get swapped out down the line for another first round pick, even a late one, so the Hornets should have 3 firsts next draft to rebuild plus Gordon.

Not too shabby.

[Pursuer]

No doubt, the NBA basically raped the Clippers with this deal. But to contradict himself, take all the power away from Demps and then act under a conflict of interest. It's ok to admit that they got a better deal, but you have to admit, that they simply wouldn't have traded him to the Lakers. And we all know why.

[GOBB]

I need a little clarification on NBA trades. You can trade for a player then turn around at any moment and trade them again? Or is there rules like a certain timeframe must pass before you can trade a player you traded for? Am I confusing this with sign and traded players? I'm unclear on the rules of players being traded and traded again soon after. Thanks for the info if someone can school me.

[DMAVS41]

:lol :oldlol: :roll:

I was. Gordon has the option to take the qualifying offer next year and then become an unrestricted free agent.

It doesn't matter how likely it is...its a possibility. And the alternative is the Hornets matching any offer he gets. Which is exactly why I don't love this trade like you do.

I don't think Gordon is going to be worth that...especially on a franchise like the Hornets that simply won't surround him with enough most likely. Its going to be 1 and done in the playoffs or 2nd round at best if eric gordon is the best or 2nd best player on your team.

And with everyone so high on Gordon...why again are the going to be one of the worst teams? Gordon, Ariza, Landry, Okafor, Kaman, Jack, Aminu, Bellinelli....with some spots to fill.

That doesn't have the makings of the worst team in the league.

[Sarcastic]

I was. Gordon has the option to take the qualifying offer next year and then become an unrestricted free agent.

It doesn't matter how likely it is...its a possibility. And the alternative is the Hornets matching any offer he gets. Which is exactly why I don't love this trade like you do.

I don't think Gordon is going to be worth that...especially on a franchise like the Hornets that simply won't surround him with enough most likely. Its going to be 1 and done in the playoffs or 2nd round at best if eric gordon is the best or 2nd best player on your team.

And with everyone so high on Gordon...why again are the going to be one of the worst teams? Gordon, Ariza, Landry, Okafor, Kaman, Jack, Aminu, Bellinelli....with some spots to fill.

That doesn't have the makings of the worst team in the league.

Can you name any players that have ever done that?

[Kevin_Gamble]

Gordon is going to be a top five scorer in the league (there is a lot of good scorers on the same team these days) if he is healthy. He's not going to anyplace else and have a team built around him at the two guard unless another team is in the Hornet's situation.

Odom, Martin and Scola would be great as pieces on a good team but I wouldn't build around them. They are what they are and at 30 years (Martin 29) of age you are looking at a two year plan of winning if you take them on as main pieces, and unlike Gordon you have no way of getting compensation - in Gordon's case you might get an allstar in return if he decided to leave. Odom, Martin and Scola are not going to be top anything in the mean time. Worse off they will help you win too many games to suck and get bad draft picks :lol.
.

Odom, Martin, and Scola would've gotten you CP3, if Stern hadn't stopped the trade because NOLA was taking on salary.

[Sarcastic]

Odom, Martin, and Scola would've gotten you CP3, if Stern hadn't stopped the trade because NOLA was taking on salary.

Odom, Martin, and Scola would not get a team CP3, because they weren't on the same team to be dealt together in the first place, and CP3 would have been a Laker.

[DMAVS41]

Can you name any players that have ever done that?

It doesn't matter. Do you not understand? If he doesn't do that...it might be worse for the Hornets. Teams are going to force the Hornets hand. They will end up matching any offer he gets most likely....and I hate that.

That is a big part of why I don't love this trade. You want Gordon getting a lot of money. I don't. I don't think it works for a franchise like the Hornets. I think it handicaps them and ultimately will prevent them from ever contending.

And if he does leave....then the trade was awful.

So its pick your poison.

Not to mention that the Hornets right now have a decent roster and have the potential to win games...which just hurts them in the long run.

[Sarcastic]

It doesn't matter. Do you not understand? If he doesn't do that...it might be worse for the Hornets. Teams are going to force the Hornets hand. They will end up matching any offer he gets most likely....and I hate that.

That is a big part of why I don't love this trade. You want Gordon getting a lot of money. I don't. I don't think it works for a franchise like the Hornets. I think it handicaps them and ultimately will prevent them from ever contending.

And if he does leave....then the trade was awful.

So its pick your poison.

With the new CBA in place, teams aren't going to throw money around anymore. He probably will make about ~$10-12 million.

[DMAVS41]

With the new CBA in place, teams aren't going to throw money around anymore. He probably will make about ~$10-12 million.

I think that will be true for a lot of teams...but not all teams. And it just takes one.

[Droid101]

they got what will surely be a top 10, and perhaps even a top 5 pick next year.

I don't agree with this at all. From Simmons:


Minny's pick might be overrated. The following teams have less talent on their roster: Cleveland, Toronto, Charlotte, Washington, New Orleans. The following teams MIGHT finish worse than them: Utah, Detroit, Sacramento, Golden State, Milwaukee, Denver (if it decides to rebuild for next season) and Houston (ditto). Also, the T-Wolves went from the league's worst coach (Kurt Rambis) to one of its most successful coaches of the past 20 years (Rick Adelman, who has a habit of getting teams to overachieve). And a nucleus of Kevin Love, Derrick Williams, Wesley Johnson, Ricky Rubio, J.J. Barea, Michael Beasley, Anthony Randolph, Anthony Tolliver, Luke Ridnour and the 18-Foul Center Monster (Darko Milicic, Brad Miller and Nikola Pekovic) is surprisingly solid. I hate going deeper than nine or 10 guys, but for this nightmare of a 66-game season, wouldn't you want a deep team with young legs? How many games will the T-Wolves steal just by being deeper and fresher?

[blacknapalm]

^ that's what i've been saying. slim chance they make playoffs but they have adelman and youth on their side. nothing should be a sure bet in a shortened season. even then, i know the draft is deep but there's no guarantees there either. it's an envious position to be in and some of those guys have higher ceilings than gordon even.

btw, i don't think gordon leaves NO. he will get a near max or max offer when it's time. imagine a davis/harrison barnes/gordon core...that's a solid start.

[HurricaneKid]

So I'm right. He can become an unrestricted free agent after next season if he chooses.

And if he doesn't...pony up NOH....you are going to be paying a guy that probably can't be the best or 2nd best player on a contending team a lot of money.

This is exactly my point. That is why I don't like the deal as much as you do. You think Gordon is on another level than I do.

After two seasons he could leave. I thought you meant after this season. CP3 hasn't promised anything over two years either.

I don't think THAT much of Gordon. He is a good scoring guard and that isn't all that common these days. But I don't know that he can grow into a cornerstone of a franchise which is what you expect from max guys.

I actually rather agree with you. Thats why I wanted the Clips to put him in the deal rather than the Minny pick. But worst case scenario is they get him for two years at a total cost of ~1/3 of his actual value. AND they got the
Minny pick.

[HurricaneKid]

Simmons is an idiot if he thinks Wash, et al have less talent than the TWolves. I usually like him but he lists the team off and seems to suggest its a good thing. I think its a TERRIBLE roster.