Will 2012 finally break the 14 year drought of 2 all star teammates for Kobe?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

1998 3
1999 1
2000 1
2001 1
2002 1
2003 1
2004 1
2005 0
2006 0
2007 0
2008 0
2009 1
2010 1
2011 1
2012 1
2013 1
2014 0
2015

Maybe next year :confusedshrug:

[32Dayz]

Your a dumbfu**.

Kobe from 08-11 had a Top 3 League-Wide Supporting Cast.

Kobe from 97-04 had Prime Shaq who alone is worth 3-5 Average All-Stars.
Those early 00 LA teams also had some really nice roleplayers and the GOAT coach in PJ.

Kobe is one of the luckiest if not the luckiest player ever in the history of the game when it comes to Supporting Casts.

Kobe (Like Pippen) got to play with the best player in the game for 6-8+ Years.

Then he gets a stacked supporting Cast for another 4 years.

Doesn't get much "Luckier" then that.

Also making the All-Star game doesnt mean anything its just a popularity contest.
Nick Van Exel was an All-Star in 98 but played like one of the worst scrubs in the league in the playoffs.

:facepalm

-Negged for actually believing this stupid crap.

[Lil-Wild]

:cry:






































:facepalm

[blablabla]

da gawd doesn't need all star teammates to win

[Droid101]

-Negged for actually believing this stupid crap.
You can't neg, you're in the red.

PS: Mad?

[Doranku]

Your a dumbfu**.

Kobe from 08-11 had a Top 3 League-Wide Supporting Cast.

Kobe from 97-04 had Prime Shaq who alone is worth 3-5 Average All-Stars.
Those early 00 LA teams also had some really nice roleplayers and the GOAT coach in PJ.

Kobe is one of the luckiest if not the luckiest player ever in the history of the game when it comes to Supporting Casts.

Kobe (Like Pippen) got to play with the best player in the game for 6-8+ Years.

Then he gets a stacked supporting Cast for another 4 years.

Doesn't get much "Luckier" then that.

Also making the All-Star game doesnt mean anything its just a popularity contest.
Nick Van Exel was an All-Star in 98 but played like one of the worst scrubs in the league in the playoffs.

:facepalm

-Negged for actually believing this stupid crap.
:roll: @ how mad this cat is.

ph@ggot.

[L8k3r5]

Your a dumbfu**.
-Negged for actually believing this stupid crap.
You can't call someone a dumbf**k if you don't know the difference between your and you're. Also, you're in the red so you can't neg.
Try Again

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You can't neg, you're in the red.

PS: Mad?

Confirmed. Shows up as blue, besides how does a simple question paired with simple indisputable facts merit a neg? :confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

Confirmed. Shows up as blue, besides how does a simple question paired with simple indisputable facts merit a neg? :confusedshrug:

Because you are twisting things. As if 1998 was Kobe's best supporting cast because it had 3 all stars? LOL

You can post all-star teammates or whatever you like. The simple truth is that Kobe has been blessed with a legit championship contending supporting cast every year he's been in the league other than 05, 06, and 07.....that is an indisputable fact mate.

[Eric Cartman]

If Bynum can put up something like 18-19 points 10 rebounds a game he could sneak in the All Star Game.

Gasol & Kobe most likely get in so yeah Kobe could have 2 all star teammates.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Because you are twisting things. As if 1998 was Kobe's best supporting cast because it had 3 all stars? LOL

You can post all-star teammates or whatever you like. The simple truth is that Kobe has been blessed with a legit championship contending supporting cast every year he's been in the league other than 05, 06, and 07.....that is an indisputable fact mate.

"legit championship contending supporting cast" this doesn't have a specific undisputed meaning therefore its impossible to be indisputable fact

saying Kobe had 1 all stat teammate in 2000, one in 2010, zero in 2006 are all indisputable facts

Besides can you imagine any other Lakers team making the WCF with Kobe contributing only 8 pts game? 1998 was def his most stacked team.

See the difference?

[32Dayz]

Playoff PER

A's (Main Star) :
Shaq (00-02) : 29
Jordan (91-93 + 96-98) : 28.53

B's (Side-Kicks) :
Kobe (00-02) : 21
Pippen (91-93 + 96-98) : 19.5

The difference is clear and obvious.

Comparison Between Kobe/Gasol in 2010.

Regular Season PER / WShares
Gasol : 22.9 ||| 11
Kobe : 21.9 ||| 9.4

Playoff PER / WShares
Gasol : 24 ||| 4.7
Kobe : 24.7 ||| 3.6

2010 Playoff Summary.
Gasol better in 12/23 Games.
Kobe better in 10/23 Games.

Gasol >= Kobe in 2010

-------------------------------------------------------------

MVP Shares / Votes / Points from 01-05.
TMac : 925
Kobe : 817

01 - 05
TMac > Kobe

Players from this Generation :

Jordan > Shaq >>> Duncan > Hakeem >>>>> KG/Kobe

-------------------------------------------------------------

#1.
Jordan : Post Season - PER
Peak : 32
Top 5 : 30.16
Top 7 : 29.61
Top 10 : 28.89
Top 13 : 28.6

------------------------------------------------------------

#2.
Shaq : Post Season - PER
Peak : 31
Top 5 : 30
Top 7 : 29.56
Top 10 : 28.52
Top 13 : 26.55
14th to 16th Season (Final 3 Seasons) - 18.33

------------------------------------------------------------

#4.
Duncan : Post Season - PER
Peak : 28.4
Top 5 : 26.96
Top 7 : 27.49
Top 10 : 26.67
Top 13 : 25.4

------------------------------------------------------------

#12.
Hakeem : Post Season - PER
Peak : 27.7
Top 5 : 24.95
Top 7 : 24.61

------------------------------------------------------------

#14.
KG : Post Season - PER
Peak : 25.5
Top 5 : 24.68
Top 7 : 24

------------------------------------------------------------

#15.
Kobe : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.8
Top 5 : 24
Top 7 : 23
Top 10 : 22.98
Top 13 : 21.62

[Yao Ming's Foot]

If Bynum can put up something like 18-19 points 10 rebounds a game he could sneak in the All Star Game.

Gasol & Kobe most likely get in so yeah Kobe could have 2 all star teammates.

Yeah I agree Bynum has a good shot with Yao Ming out of the picture.

[Doranku]

Because you are twisting things. As if 1998 was Kobe's best supporting cast because it had 3 all stars? LOL

You can post all-star teammates or whatever you like. The simple truth is that Kobe has been blessed with a legit championship contending supporting cast every year he's been in the league other than 05, 06, and 07.....that is an indisputable fact mate.

If his '08 cast without Bynum and Ariza counts as a "legit championship contending supporting cast", then so does 90% of Dirk's casts. :rolleyes:

[AlphaWolf24]

Because you are twisting things. As if 1998 was Kobe's best supporting cast because it had 3 all stars? LOL

You can post all-star teammates or whatever you like. The simple truth is that Kobe has been blessed with a legit championship contending supporting cast every year he's been in the league other than 05, 06, and 07.....that is an indisputable fact mate.


so has Lebron , so has Duncan , so has Durant , so has KG,so has Dirk, so did Bird , so did Magic , so did Jordan ...

many players play on great teams....many of those players don't win at the level Kobe has...


Lebron has had a allstar caliber Center/Big his whole Career....he played on back 2 back 60+ win teams with multiple stars and never got it done...





deal wit it son...

[32Dayz]

If his '08 cast without Bynum and Ariza counts as a "legit championship contending supporting cast", then so does 90% of Dirk's casts. :rolleyes:

Gasol - Legit Star / Top PF in the league.
Odom
Radman (who played pretty good that year)

+ Sasha/JFarmer/Ariza off the bench

That was definitely and without a doubt a Top-3 Supporting Cast in 08.

As usual this pathetic Stan Dorkachu will continue to try and degrade anyone Kobe has played with to push his obvious agendas.

[32Dayz]

Kobe has been the best player on his own team 7/14 years.
Kobe has 1FMVP despite winning 5 Rings.





deal wit it son...

I can deal with it dad...

[32jazz]

Gasol - Legit Star / Top PF in the league.
Odom
Radman (who played pretty good that year)

+ Sasha/JFarmer/Ariza off the bench

That was definitely and without a doubt a Top-3 Supporting Cast in 08.

As usual this pathetic Stan Dorkachu will continue to try and degrade anyone Kobe has played with to push his obvious agendas.

Radman? :oldlol: gtfo

Ariza and Bynum were injured

[AlphaWolf24]

"Kobe is the best allaround player in the NBA at only 22 years old" - ESPN 2001

"Kobe is the best allaround player I ever coached " - PHIL JACKSON 2001

"Kobe is the best player in the league " - Shaq 2001

"Kobe is the greatest Laker of alltime" - Shaq 2011

a decade of bieng the premiere player in the NBA....

I can deal with it dad...



that's my little man....:applause: :applause: :applause:

[32Dayz]

that's my little man....:applause: :applause: :applause:


Kobe never came close to Shaq in MVP or DPOY voting from 00-02 and a 2001 ESPN Los Angeles, CA Poll over who was the best player on the Lakers came back 89% Shaq and only 11% Kobe.

And that was BY FAR Kobe's best year from 00-04.

lol. :cheers:

[AlphaWolf24]

lol.


http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/1600/kobepotd.jpg :cheers:


thanks 16 Dayz....for providing a actual picture and link...

Kobe the best player of the decade.....and it aint even close.





next

[Yao Ming's Foot]

DPOY voting 00-04

00

Shaq 2nd
Kobe 5th

01

Shaq 8th
Kobe 11th (1 pt difference)

02

Kobe 3rd
Shaq 0 votes

03

Kobe 8th
Shaq 13th

04

Kobe 10th
Shaq 10th

:confusedshrug:

[AlphaWolf24]

DPOY voting 00-03

00

Shaq 2nd
Kobe 5th

01

Shaq 8th
Kobe 11th (1 pt difference)

02

Kobe 3rd
Shaq 0 votes

03

Kobe 8th
Shaq 13th

:confusedshrug:


ether...


but that is way over his head....all he knows is to bash the best player in the past 12 years..

basketball knowlege wise the kid is lost in the sauce....

[Yao Ming's Foot]

MVP voting

00

Shaq 2nd
Kobe 5th

01

Shaq 3rd
Kobe 9th

02

Shaq 3rd
Kobe 5th

03

Kobe 3rd
Shaq 5th

04

Kobe 5th
Shaq 6th

"never came close" :wtf:

[32Dayz]

MVP voting

00

Shaq 2nd
Kobe 5th

01

Shaq 3rd
Kobe 9th

02

Shaq 3rd
Kobe 5th

"never came close" :wtf:

I said during the 3Peat as*hoe.

Bolded is Bryants best year and the year by far where they were closest in terms of Production/Impact.

Shaq missed a ton of games in 03/04 and still was right behind Kobe in MVP voting and obviously would have either won MVP or been 2nd/3rd if he played more games.

Kobe was never even remotely close to Shaq in Production/Value or Impact from 97-04.

Quit Stanning.


Playoff PER

A's (Main Star) :
Shaq (00-02) : 29
Jordan (91-93 + 96-98) : 28.53

B's (Side-Kicks) :
Kobe (00-02) : 21
Pippen (91-93 + 96-98) : 19.5

The difference is clear and obvious.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I said during the 3Peat as*hoe.

Bolded is Bryants best year and the year by far where they were closest in terms of Production/Impact.

Shaq missed a ton of games in 03/04 and still was right behind Kobe in MVP voting and obviously would have either won MVP or been 2nd/3rd if he played more games.

You are the one who chose to hang is hat on DPOY and MVP awards. It was "close" by any reasonable definition of the word and Kobe actually bested him in 02. Your facts are simply wrong. :confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

so has Lebron , so has Duncan , so has Durant , so has KG,so has Dirk, so did Bird , so did Magic , so did Jordan ...

many players play on great teams....many of those players don't win at the level Kobe has...


Lebron has had a allstar caliber Center/Big his whole Career....he played on back 2 back 60+ win teams with multiple stars and never got it done...





deal wit it son...

Lebron? I hope you are joking....he's played on one team that I would put in the class of Kobe's teams...and that was last year.

Dirk? Not even close. Prime Shaq for 8 years? Phil Jackson? The likes of Gasol and Odom and Bynum the last 4? Not at all the same thing.

Duncan? No again.

KG? Are you ****ing high? KG has played with some truly terrible supporting casts throughout his career.

Bird and Magic? Absolutely

MJ? Yep...but he never had the luxury of being the 2nd best player on a team for 8 years and still contending.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.....you are absolutely insane to compare the kind of help that Lebron and Dirk have played with so far to what Kobe has had. Comparing KG is just a flat out joke.

And Duncan....could you imagine how impossible it would have been to beat a team with Duncan as its 2nd best player for 8 years? Its absurd to think they'd win less than 6 titles.....

[32Dayz]

Damn.... DMAVS41 laying the smackdown on the pathetic Kome Stans.

:pimp:

I'd rep ya if I could but over the limit.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I don't believe Chris Paul last year in the playoffs had a more impressive run than Wade, Dirk or Lebron so Playoff PERs without any context don't hold a lot of value to me. :confusedshrug:

[32Dayz]

I don't believe Chris Paul last year in the playoffs had a more impressive run than Wade, Dirk or Lebron so Playoff PERs without any context don't hold a lot of value to me. :confusedshrug:

Ridiculously Better Production.
Team's 0ffensive and Defensive anchor.
100000x more impactful defensively.
Main focus of opposing defensives attracting more defenders then any player in the history of the game which directly opened the floor up for everyone else and made it very difficult for teams to double Kobe or any of the roleplayers.
Best Closer on the team.

Yea.. he was better in every possible facet.
I know Kobe Stans like you hate Stats because it shows how overrated he is.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Ridiculously Better Production.
Team's 0ffensive and Defensive anchor.
100000x more impactful defensively.
Main focus of opposing defensives attracting more defenders then any player in the history of the game which directly opened the floor up for everyone else and made it very difficult for teams to double Kobe or any of the roleplayers.
Best Closer on the team.

Yea.. he was better in every possible facet.
I know Kobe Stans like you hate Stats because it shows how overrated he is.

Do you believe Chris Paul had the best playoff performance overall last year over Dirk, Wade and LeBron?

[AlphaWolf24]

I said during the 3Peat as*hoe.

Bolded is Bryants best year and the year by far where they were closest in terms of Production/Impact.

Shaq missed a ton of games in 03/04 and still was right behind Kobe in MVP voting and obviously would have either won MVP or been 2nd/3rd if he played more games.

Kobe was never even remotely close to Shaq in Production/Value or Impact from 97-04.

Quit Stanning.


2000 Kobe all NBA First team defense...Shaq never made all nba first team:lol

2001 Kobe the best player in the real NBA Finals vs the Spurs...
"Kobe called the best player in the league" by the #1 sports media outlet in the world.....puts up a better Playoff run then Wade in 06'

2002 for the 2nd year in a row widely regarded as the best player in the world...wins 3 straight Titles as the premiere player in the NBA and the best allaround player on the Lakers

2003 puts up one of the greatest scoring seasons of alltime....drops 40 points a game for nearly a month straight...again the best player in the NBA

[32Dayz]

Playoff PER

A's (Main Star) :
Shaq (00-02) : 29
Jordan (91-93 + 96-98) : 28.53

B's (Side-Kicks) :
Kobe (00-02) : 21
Pippen (91-93 + 96-98) : 19.5

The difference is clear and obvious.

Comparison Between Kobe/Gasol in 2010.

Regular Season PER / WShares
Gasol : 22.9 ||| 11
Kobe : 21.9 ||| 9.4

Playoff PER / WShares
Gasol : 24 ||| 4.7
Kobe : 24.7 ||| 3.6

2010 Playoff Summary.
Gasol better in 12/23 Games.
Kobe better in 10/23 Games.

Gasol >= Kobe in 2010

-------------------------------------------------------------

MVP Shares / Votes / Points from 01-05.
TMac : 925
Kobe : 817

01 - 05
TMac > Kobe

Players from this Generation :

Jordan > Shaq >>> Duncan > Hakeem >>>>> KG/Kobe

-------------------------------------------------------------

#1.
Jordan : Post Season - PER
Peak : 32
Top 5 : 30.16
Top 7 : 29.61
Top 10 : 28.89
Top 13 : 28.6

------------------------------------------------------------

#2.
Shaq : Post Season - PER
Peak : 31
Top 5 : 30
Top 7 : 29.56
Top 10 : 28.52
Top 13 : 26.55
14th to 16th Season (Final 3 Seasons) - 18.33

------------------------------------------------------------

#4.
Duncan : Post Season - PER
Peak : 28.4
Top 5 : 26.96
Top 7 : 27.49
Top 10 : 26.67
Top 13 : 25.4

------------------------------------------------------------

#12.
Hakeem : Post Season - PER
Peak : 27.7
Top 5 : 24.95
Top 7 : 24.61

------------------------------------------------------------

#14.
KG : Post Season - PER
Peak : 25.5
Top 5 : 24.68
Top 7 : 24

------------------------------------------------------------

#15.
Kobe : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.8
Top 5 : 24
Top 7 : 23
Top 10 : 22.98
Top 13 : 21.62


Excellent points dad. :applause:

[AlphaWolf24]

Ridiculously Better Production.
Team's 0ffensive and Defensive anchor.
100000x more impactful defensively.
Main focus of opposing defensives attracting more defenders then any player in the history of the game which directly opened the floor up for everyone else and made it very difficult for teams to double Kobe or any of the roleplayers.
Best Closer on the team.

Yea.. he was better in every possible facet.
I know Kobe Stans like you hate Stats because it shows how overrated he is.


so you would also agree that Kevin Love>Howard

Kevin Love> prime Hakeem.....since the numbers prove Love's Impact>any thing Hakeem has ever done...




thanks...proves you are a batsh!t crazy...

[DMAVS41]

If his '08 cast without Bynum and Ariza counts as a "legit championship contending supporting cast", then so does 90% of Dirk's casts. :rolleyes:

Its all about each year. What supporting casts were better than the Lakers in 08 in the West. The Spurs with an injured Manu? The Hornets? LOL....

And if you want to throw out 08...go for it...they lost anyway and Kobe was pretty bad in the finals. Not like his supporting cast failed him or anything. Hard to win a title if you can't outplay Paul Pierce and your name is Kobe Bryant....also hard to win if you blow a 24 point lead at home....

[AlphaWolf24]

Excellent points dad




flawed stat's....


Kevin Love>Prime hakeem.....because of per


worthless...... :applause:


well done my little crumb snatcher.....well done

[JohnnyWall]

Only irrational Kobe haters would get this mad at somebody posting factual statistics, however irrelevant they may be.

:lol

[32Dayz]

so you would also agree that Kevin Love>Howard

Kevin Love> prime Hakeem.....since the numbers prove Love's Impact>any thing Hakeem has ever done...




thanks...proves you are a batsh!t crazy...

Kevin love (production wise) is one of the best in the league.
However he is not a great individual 0ffensive player and would be exposed if his team actually made the playoffs. He also is a poor defender which obviously PER would not show you.

Your the crazy one.

Hakeem has multiple seasons in the regular season and playoffs with a better PER then Loves career Best. :facepalm

[AlphaWolf24]

Its all about each year. What supporting casts were better than the Lakers in 08 in the West. The Spurs with an injured Manu? The Hornets? LOL....

And if you want to throw out 08...go for it...they lost anyway and Kobe was pretty bad in the finals. Not like his supporting cast failed him or anything. Hard to win a title if you can't outplay Paul Pierce and your name is Kobe Bryant....also hard to win if you blow a 24 point lead at home....


yup...because it's not like the 07' Mavericks "cast" was better then the Warriors....:lol


08' Lakers couldn't compete with KG , Perkins and Powe on the interior rebounding or defense....

Gasol was outmatched as was Ronnie and Odom....but Kobe played amazing just to get to the NBA Finals....after all...Gasol never even won 1 post season game before

[32Dayz]

08' Lakers couldn't compete with the Celtics Kobe played like hot trash in that series and dominated the 0ffense (ballhog) which ruined any chance LA had at contending.

Gasol was outmatched as was Ronnie and Odom and Kobe....but Kobe and Gasol played amazing just to get to the NBA Finals....after all...Gasol just like Kobe was unable to win a single playoff series in the West before they united.

Fixed

[Doranku]

Its all about each year. What supporting casts were better than the Lakers in 08 in the West. The Spurs with an injured Manu? The Hornets? LOL....

And if you want to throw out 08...go for it...they lost anyway and Kobe was pretty bad in the finals. Not like his supporting cast failed him or anything. Hard to win a title if you can't outplay Paul Pierce and your name is Kobe Bryant....also hard to win if you blow a 24 point lead at home....

Kobe was going against one of the best defenses of the decade... Pierce was going against Radmanovic. :facepalm

Boston was able to focus their entire defense on eliminating Kobe because no one else was stepping up. Gasol was playing like a paperback b!tch all series. Dude had three blocks the entire series. :lol

Anyway, I don't really care about '08 anymore. LA could have won if Kobe played better, but he didn't. Oh well.

I do find it funny that you bring up Bynum when talking about how LA's supporting cast has been so good for the past 4 years, yet apparently Duncan didn't have the same type of help?

Nazr f*cking Mohammed had comparable stats to Bynum over LA's span of b2b championships. Bynum was gimp all throughout '09, and wasn't much better in '10. He certainly didn't produce like this dominant force that a lot of people make him out to be.

[AlphaWolf24]

Kevin love (production wise) is one of the best in the league.
However he is not a great individual 0ffensive player and would be exposed if his team actually made the playoffs. He also is a poor defender which obviously PER would not show you.

Your the crazy one.

Hakeem has multiple seasons in the regular season and playoffs with a better PER then Loves career Best. :facepalm


no..no..no...Love also has better seasons "perwise" then prime Hakeem...

Love also has higher Per then many other HOF centers...

so "per per per" and neeener...neeener...neeener...Kevin Love Per wise> Hakeem , Unseld , Ewing , KG and many others....

because as any real fan knows..it's all about the Per and FG% Per and FG% Per and FG% Per and FG% Per and FG%

[D-Wade316]

:roll: :roll: :roll: Loving the back-and-forth between Alphawolf24 and 32Dayz :lol

[AlphaWolf24]

How the 08 Lakers even got to the Finals is amazing....Lakers only had 1 allstar (Kobe) and a soft Euro who never won 1 playoff game....


Kobe da Gawd going to Finals like most Players go shoppin for SUV's...

amazin

Fixed


16 dayz preachin the gospel....:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[JohnnyWall]

I do find it funny that you bring up Bynum when talking about how LA's supporting cast has been so good for the past 4 years, yet apparently Duncan didn't have the same type of help?

It's hilarious to watch. People like dmavs will say Bynum is worthless and perpetually-injured in a trade thread, then turn around and say Bynum is a great center when they think it helps their argument. Love it. :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

yup...because it's not like the 07' Mavericks "cast" was better then the Warriors....:lol


08' Lakers couldn't compete with KG , Perkins and Powe on the interior rebounding or defense....

Gasol was outmatched as was Ronnie and Odom....but Kobe played amazing just to get to the NBA Finals....after all...Gasol never even won 1 post season game before

What? Who here is saying the Warriors were better? See.....I don't blame the rest of the Mavs for the Warriors loss. Dirk played like crap and its really hard to win when your best player doesn't play well.

Even with all of the shit you are talking about, the Lakers were very much in that series. Kobe was awful in the game they blew the 24 point lead.

Simply put, if Kobe had been the best player in that series...the Lakers might have won. He wasn't and they lost. Not about supporting cast at all really. Just like the Mavs didn't lose because of the supporting cast.

[DMAVS41]

Kobe was going against one of the best defenses of the decade... Pierce was going against Radmanovic. :facepalm

Boston was able to focus their entire defense on eliminating Kobe because no one else was stepping up. Gasol was playing like a paperback b!tch all series. Dude had three blocks the entire series. :lol

Anyway, I don't really care about '08 anymore. LA could have won if Kobe played better, but he didn't. Oh well.

I do find it funny that you bring up Bynum when talking about how LA's supporting cast has been so good for the past 4 years, yet apparently Duncan didn't have the same type of help?

Nazr f*cking Mohammed had comparable stats to Bynum over LA's span of b2b championships. Bynum was gimp all throughout '09, and wasn't much better in '10. He certainly didn't produce like this dominant force that a lot of people make him out to be.

What? I was talking about Duncan vs Kobe fore their careers in terms of help.

No, Duncan has not had the same type of help. If Tim Duncan had ever been the 2nd best player on a team for 8 years that team would have won at the very least 5 titles and easily could have won 6 or 7.

Do you understand how impossible to beat that would have been? Could you imagine Duncan and a guy the equivalent of prime/peak shaq playing 8 years together. Unstoppable.

For that alone I can't equate the two. Not to mention I'd take Gasol, Odom, and an often injured Bynum over Manu, Parker, and Bowen pretty easily.

Sorry. Kobe clearly played with more help than Duncan.

[AlphaWolf24]

What? Who here is saying the Warriors were better? See.....I don't blame the rest of the Mavs for the Warriors loss. Dirk played like crap and its really hard to win when your best player doesn't play well.

Even with all of the shit you are talking about, the Lakers were very much in that series. Kobe was awful in the game they blew the 24 point lead.

Simply put, if Kobe had been the best player in that series...the Lakers might have won. He wasn't and they lost. Not about supporting cast at all really. Just like the Mavs didn't lose because of the supporting cast.


Kobe was the best player in that series....

Could Kobe have played better?...sure.....

If Kobe averaged 45PPG and 10 rebounds then maybe the lakers would have won....but the 08' Celtics were a great Team with one of the best defensive sides ever...

I think the most important aspect in that series was interior defense and rebounding...Bos outmatched/ outhustled L.A.

but Kobe was the best player in that series and the playoff's

[DMAVS41]

Kobe was the best player in that series....

Could Kobe have played better?...sure.....

If Kobe averaged 45PPG and 10 rebounds then maybe the lakers would have won....but the 08' Celtics were a great Team with one of the best defensive sides ever...

I think the most important aspect in that series was interior defense and rebounding...Bos outmatched/ outhustled L.A.

but Kobe was the best player in that series and the playoff's

Here we go with the extremes. How about Kobe not playing like complete ass in games 1, 4, and 6? How about Kobe shooting over 45%? How about Kobe getting more than 4 rebounds in some of those games?

You act like it would have taken a superhuman effort. If Kobe had averaged a few more rebounds per game and shot over 45% the Lakers could have easily won that series.

LOL at 45/10.....:roll: :roll: :roll:

And about the rebounding. The Lakers matched the Celtics in games 2 through 5....all 4 of those games were pretty much a wash on the glass IIRC. The Lakers got hurt on the glass in game 1....Kobe had 3 boards...LOL

And they got killed on the glass in game 6.....of course that doesn't matter much when you lay down and lose by 40 (sadly as usual for a kobe led team) in an elimination game

[AlphaWolf24]

What? I was talking about Duncan vs Kobe fore their careers in terms of help.

No, Duncan has not had the same type of help. If Tim Duncan had ever been the 2nd best player on a team for 8 years that team would have won at the very least 5 titles and easily could have won 6 or 7.

Do you understand how impossible to beat that would have been? Could you imagine Duncan and a guy the equivalent of prime/peak shaq playing 8 years together. Unstoppable.

For that alone I can't equate the two. Not to mention I'd take Gasol, Odom, and an often injured Bynum over Manu, Parker, and Bowen pretty easily.

Sorry. Kobe clearly played with more help than Duncan.


Kobe was easily the best allaround player on the lakers from 2000 on...Kobe was the main weapon in the 4th quarter...

who was the L.A.'s 3rd option behind Kobe and Shaq??...40 year old Glenn rice...Meanwhile Duncan has DROB , Glenn Rob , RJ and many other stars as 4th and 5th options...

Duncan and Shaq could never co exist and win....Polar Opposite mentality wise and there games do not blend well...

Duncan has played on great teams since his rookie year with many great allaround players...

you trying to say Kobe has had better teams is silly and played..



next

[32Dayz]

Kobe was easily one of the 4-9 best players in the league from 2001 on...Shaq was the main weapon in the 4th quarter...

Duncan and Shaq would easily dominate the league and win every year... both want to win and play their hardest on the court and there games mesh perfectly since Duncan is a finesse player and Shaq is a mix of finesse and power...

Kobe has obviously had much better teams throughout his Career in comparison to Shaq or Duncan and has only been the best player on his own team for 1 of his 5 championships (2009)

Points scored in the 4th Quarter from 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 388
Kobe - 351

Series in which a player was the "Main Closer" 2000-2002 (Playoffs)
Shaq - 3 Series (00 POR, 00 IND, 02 SAC)
Kobe - 1 Series (02 SAS)

next

Great post as usual Alpha.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Legends66NBA7]

What? I was talking about Duncan vs Kobe fore their careers in terms of help.

No, Duncan has not had the same type of help. If Tim Duncan had ever been the 2nd best player on a team for 8 years that team would have won at the very least 5 titles and easily could have won 6 or 7.

Do you understand how impossible to beat that would have been? Could you imagine Duncan and a guy the equivalent of prime/peak shaq playing 8 years together. Unstoppable.

For that alone I can't equate the two. Not to mention I'd take Gasol, Odom, and an often injured Bynum over Manu, Parker, and Bowen pretty easily.

Sorry. Kobe clearly played with more help than Duncan.

Playoffs Only during Spurs Finals Runs:

http://gyazo.com/b1e6ebb3607624c4ecbee83489e80ff2.png

http://gyazo.com/664f80e56eddf069549ee91f78f9602b.png

http://gyazo.com/3d96adbbf29671e722ec13fbb8e070cd.png

http://gyazo.com/3b2e0b7dca310be21f80ff5350ae2d93.png

[DMAVS41]

Kobe was easily the best allaround player on the lakers from 2000 on...Kobe was the main weapon in the 4th quarter...

who was the L.A.'s 3rd option behind Kobe and Shaq??...40 year old Glenn rice...Meanwhile Duncan has DROB , Glenn Rob , RJ and many other stars as 4th and 5th options...

Duncan and Shaq could never co exist and win....Polar Opposite mentality wise and there games do not blend well...

Duncan has played on great teams since his rookie year with many great allaround players...

you trying to say Kobe has had better teams is silly and played..



next

I said someone the equivalent of Shaq. Of course pairing a pf/c with a true center might cause problems.

So who is the equivalent of prime shaq all time? Magic? Bird?....So imagine a prime Larry Bird and Duncan playing 8 years together....LOL

Its a joke how dominant that would have been. They are winning at minimum 5 titles. And the funny thing. Shaq was probably a better and more dominant player than Bird was during that stretch.

And stop under estimating the role players on the Lakers while Shaq was there. They did their jobs well and were exactly the right pieces to compliment Kobe and Shaq....

[Legends66NBA7]

What? I was talking about Duncan vs Kobe fore their careers in terms of help.

No, Duncan has not had the same type of help. If Tim Duncan had ever been the 2nd best player on a team for 8 years that team would have won at the very least 5 titles and easily could have won 6 or 7.

Do you understand how impossible to beat that would have been? Could you imagine Duncan and a guy the equivalent of prime/peak shaq playing 8 years together. Unstoppable.

For that alone I can't equate the two. Not to mention I'd take Gasol, Odom, and an often injured Bynum over Manu, Parker, and Bowen pretty easily.

Sorry. Kobe clearly played with more help than Duncan.

Playoffs Only during Lakers Finals Runs:

http://gyazo.com/b8f04dcf63333a613498de5eb9d63408.png

http://gyazo.com/33e386a8773179397402b38ec75922f7.png

http://gyazo.com/575552dad8d26dff184e76c82e0b1514.png

http://gyazo.com/710847a13276a0aea5a3dbff16a4963d.png

http://gyazo.com/380d847c04abf7b33bb79c544955514b.png

http://gyazo.com/71fa8643d5dbd3ef33cea3a3705ac87e.png

http://gyazo.com/562252aca708749fefbbe506acdffb75.png

[Legends66NBA7]

Really, it's pretty obvious who had more help during their careers.

As for the OP's question, probably not.

[32Dayz]

Comparison Between Kobe/Gasol in 2010.

Regular Season PER / WShares
Gasol : 22.9 ||| 11
Kobe : 21.9 ||| 9.4

Playoff PER / WShares
Gasol : 24 ||| 4.7
Kobe : 24.7 ||| 3.6

2010 Playoff Summary.
Gasol better in 12/23 Games.
Kobe better in 10/23 Games.

:pimp:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

"help" does not equal "one other player"

Basketball isn't a two man sport.

Best player + 2nd best player + 10 scrubs <<<< 3rd-14th best players

[DMAVS41]

"help" does not equal "one other player"

Basketball isn't a two man sport.

Best player + 2nd best player + 10 scrubs <<<< 3rd-14th best players

and the rest of the lakers were never just scrubs...no matter how much you want them to be.

they had a role to play...and they usually did it very well. when they didn't? you get Kobe getting his ass swept out of the playoffs last year.

that is what happens...

[WeGetRing2012]

It's hilarious to watch. People like dmavs will say Bynum is worthless and perpetually-injured in a trade thread, then turn around and say Bynum is a great center when they think it helps their argument. Love it. :oldlol:

:lol Exactly! Idoits.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

and the rest of the lakers were never just scrubs...no matter how much you want them to be.

they had a role to play...and they usually did it very well. when they didn't? you get Kobe getting his ass swept out of the playoffs last year.

that is what happens...

Of course they were. Why is it Kobe haters are so enthralled by advanced statistics only up to the point somebody actually uses them to point out how inept his 2nd best teammate has been on any title team? Now all of a sudden its about fulfilling some mythical role that apparently no other scrubs would have been capable of doing.

Compared to Rodman, Tony Parker, Worthy and Parrish, Lamar Odom is a scrub.

Compared to Kukoc, Bruce Bowen, Dennis Johnson and Micheal Cooper, Ron Artest is a scrub

[RRR3]

Of course they were. Why is it Kobe haters are so enthralled by advanced statistics only up to the point somebody actually uses them to point out how inept his 2nd best teammate has been on any title team? Now all of a sudden its about fulfilling some mythical role that apparently no other scrubs would have been capable of doing.

Compared to Rodman, Tony Parker, Worthy and Parrish, Lamar Odom is a scrub.

Compared to Kukoc, Bruce Bowen, Dennis Johnson and Micheal Cooper, Ron Artest is a scrub
Prime Ron Artest is better than three of the four players you listed as being "way better than him"

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Prime Ron Artest is better than three of the four players you listed as being "way better than him"

Good thing Kobe never played with prime Ron Artest :facepalm

[Deuce Bigalow]

Your a dumbfu**.

Kobe from 08-11 had a Top 3 League-Wide Supporting Cast.

Kobe from 97-04 had Prime Shaq who alone is worth 3-5 Average All-Stars.
Those early 00 LA teams also had some really nice roleplayers and the GOAT coach in PJ.

Kobe is one of the luckiest if not the luckiest player ever in the history of the game when it comes to Supporting Casts.

Kobe (Like Pippen) got to play with the best player in the game for 6-8+ Years.

Then he gets a stacked supporting Cast for another 4 years.

Doesn't get much "Luckier" then that.

Also making the All-Star game doesnt mean anything its just a popularity contest.
Nick Van Exel was an All-Star in 98 but played like one of the worst scrubs in the league in the playoffs.

:facepalm

-Negged for actually believing this stupid crap.

:oldlol: :facepalm
You're the dumb****
and you have negative reputation, your negs have 0 value
:facepalm ****ing idiot

[32Dayz]

You're the dumb****
****ing idiot

http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/web03/2011/2/18/15/u-mad-11518-1298062748-1.jpg

Actual Picture of Bigelow below. :lol
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii134/timt25/Animated%20Pics/MikeMyers.gif

[chazzy]

Bynum should definitely be an all star this year, expecting big things from him since Odom is gone.

[RRR3]

Good thing Kobe never played with prime Ron Artest :facepalm
Yeah, well Artest's is still better than you're acting like. Great defender still, although he's declined a lot.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Yeah, well Artest's is still better than you're acting like. Great defender still, although he's declined a lot.

Is old man Artest better than prime Toni Kukoc, prime Bruce Bowen, prime Dennis Johnson or prime Michael Cooper?

:confusedshrug:

[32Dayz]

lol what other Top 10-15 GOAT player played with a Prime Shaq for 8 years?

Pippen is the only player who is comparable to Kobe in that regard.

Then Kobe had Gasol/Odom + decent roleplayers.
Then Kobe had Gasol/Odom/Bynum + decent roleplayers.

Kobe/Gasol were the "stars"
Bynum/Odom/Artest/Ariza and imo (Barnes) were the "Elite Roleplayers"
Walton/Jordan/Shannon/Vuja were the "decent to average role players"

:pimp:

Kobe Stans OWNED. :violin:

[RRR3]

Is old man Artest better than prime Toni Kukoc, prime Bruce Bowen, prime Dennis Johnson or prime Michael Cooper?

:confusedshrug:
Bruce Bowen is trash. Useless on offense, makes even old man Artest look like MJ. You realize just two years ago Artest was averaging 17 PPG and three years ago averaging 20 PPG? His shots per game have gone down significantly on the Lakers. Just worth considering.

[32Dayz]

Bruce Bowen is trash. Useless on offense, makes even old man Artest look like MJ. You realize just two years ago Artest was averaging 17 PPG and three years ago averaging 20 PPG? His shots per game have gone down significantly on the Lakers. Just worth considering.

Funny I remember Artest saving LA in 09 or 2010 with a last second tipin off an embarrassing Kobe airball.

Anyone else remember that?

I also remember him coming through with some timely 0ffense in G7 of the 2010 Finalz when him and Gasol had to carry Kobe to victory.

:facepalm

[Svendiggity]

Yeah, well Artest's is still better than you're acting like. Great defender still, although he's declined a lot.

Teams leave Artest wide open on purpose and he still barely makes 3 out of 10 three pointers. And when you look around the league at defensive specialist, the majority of them can make open shots. He bricks shots most wing players make with their eyes closed.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Bruce Bowen is trash. Useless on offense, makes even old man Artest look like MJ. You realize just two years ago Artest was averaging 17 PPG and three years ago averaging 20 PPG? His shots per game have gone down significantly on the Lakers. Just worth considering.

Ron Artest wasn't on the Lakers two or three years ago. Its completely irrelevant. He's a liability on offense and a worse defender than prime Bowen. The fact that you even see fit to argue this is sad.

[Droid101]

Bruce Bowen is trash. Useless on offense, makes even old man Artest look like MJ.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Bruce Bowen 3 Point shooting percentages by season on the Spurs:

01-02: 38%
02-03: 44%
03-04: 36%
04-05: 40%
05-06: 42%
06-07: 38%
07-08: 42%
08-09: 43%

Did Kobe ever play with a shooter who sat in the corner to get open threes that was this good for this long?

Edit: To make it relevant to the discussion, Ron Artest hasn't shot that well from 3 any season he's been with the Lakers.

[RRR3]

Ron Artest wasn't on the Lakers two or three years ago. Its completely irrelevant. He's a liability on offense and a worse defender than prime Bowen. The fact that you even see fit to argue this is sad.
You are the one who thinks it is reasonable to argue for Kobe being the GOAT or even near being the GOAT. That's insane

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Funny I remember Artest saving LA in 09 or 2010 with a last second tipin off an embarrassing Kobe airball.

Anyone else remember that?

I also remember him coming through with some timely 0ffense in G7 of the 2010 Finalz when him and Gasol had to carry Kobe to victory.

:facepalm

Well I guess of couple of highlight plays that you remember trumps the entire series, the entire playoffs and the entire season that preceded it. :oldlol:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Funny I remember Artest saving LA in 09 or 2010 with a last second tipin off an embarrassing Kobe airball.

Anyone else remember that?

I also remember him coming through with some timely 0ffense in G7 of the 2010 Finalz when him and Gasol had to carry Kobe to victory.

:facepalm

Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Shaquille O'Neal
Larry Bird
Bill Russell

played with either as close/good/better supporting casts as Kobe did in his career

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You are the one who thinks it is reasonable to argue for Kobe being the GOAT or even near being the GOAT. That's insane

That's just not true. At age 32 I dont believe Kobe has done enough to surpass Kareem in everything he has accomplished by the time he retired

[32Dayz]

Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Shaquille O'Neal
Larry Bird
Bill Russell

played with either as close/good/better supporting casts as Kobe did in his career

Nah, Shaq had penny for 2/3 Years who probably wasn't even more valuable then Prime Gasol.

He had Wade for 2 Years at the very end of his useful Career.

Prime Shaq >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 97-04 Kobe.

Shaq was the best player on his own team 13/14 years and in 3/4 Championships.

Kobe was the best player on his own team 7/14 years and in 1/5 Championships.

Lol @ you're lack of intelligence. :oldlol:

[Svendiggity]

You are the one who thinks it is reasonable to argue for Kobe being the GOAT or even near being the GOAT. That's insane

How is that insane? I think Jay-Z is the greatest rapper of all time but I don't get angry when someone says Pac, Nas or Biggie are better. He's constantly making championship runs and putting up 30 point games. He's one of the greatest ever. Why does it matter that people think he's on of the best? Most people agree that Mike is anyway. There's no reason to be upset that people like Kobe and argue his case as one of the great ones. That's what fans do.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Shaq played with Penny Hardaway, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Steve Nash, Amare Stoudamire, and Lebron James

Kobe played with Shaq and Pau Gasol

[32Dayz]

How is that insane? I think Jay-Z is the greatest rapper of all time but I don't get angry when someone says Pac, Nas or Biggie are better. He's constantly making championship runs and putting up 30 point games. He's one of the greatest ever. Why does it matter that people think he's on of the best? Most people agree that Mike is anyway. There's no reason to be upset that people like Kobe and argue his case as one of the great ones. That's what fans do.

Cuz Kobe is in the 10-15 and at worst the 10-20 range.

He doesn't even have a speck of an argument for GOAT.

:facepalm

I might like to think I could beat Prime Tyson in a fight but thats still a retarded opinion.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Shaq played with Penny Hardaway, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Steve Nash, and Lebron James

Kobe played with Shaq and Pau Gasol

Amare, KG, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce...

[32Dayz]

Shaq played with Penny Hardaway, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade.

Kobe played with Shaq and Pau Gasol

Shaq played with Penny for 2-3 years and Wade for 1-2 years.

Shaq was a much better player then Penny every year they were together and Prime Shaq was galaxys better then 97-04 Kobe.

Kobe from 97-04 played with the best player in the league and arguably the GOAT or a GOAT candidate in Prime/Peak Shaq.

Kobe played with Prime Gasol and a stacked team from 08-10 and in 2010 when he won his second title with that team he was outplayed and less valuable then Gasol in the regular season and post season.

Shaq won 3 Titles as the best player on his own team and was the best player on his own team 13/14 years.

Kobe won 1 Title as the best player on his own team and was the best player on his own team 7/14 years.

-Next.

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[32Dayz]

Amare, KG, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce...

Shaq's Career ended in 06.
He was basically Wizards Jordan but worse, a complete Shell of himself.

His Career is from 93-06.

Dont be a stupid fgt by bringing up players he played with after that point.

:facepalm

Put 93-04 Shaq on any of those teams he played on after 06 and they win the Title automatically.

[LakersReign]

How is that insane? I think Jay-Z is the greatest rapper of all time but I don't get angry when someone says Pac, Nas or Biggie are better. He's constantly making championship runs and putting up 30 point games. He's one of the greatest ever. Why does it matter that people think he's on of the best? Most people agree that Mike is anyway. There's no reason to be upset that people like Kobe and argue his case as one of the great ones. That's what fans do.

Don't waste you time, cuz that's all they do. NOTHING Kobe does is ever of his own, it's always cuz of somebody else. According to them as well, you're not allowed to form your on opinions, just parrot everybody else like they do, and then throw a pathetic temper tantrum when people don't agree with you. ReallyReallyRe******x3 is a pathetic bandwagon Lebron fan, so naturally, he's going to reason just like one:facepalm

[RRR3]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Bruce Bowen 3 Point shooting percentages by season on the Spurs:

01-02: 38%-7 PPG
02-03: 44%-7.1 PPG
03-04: 36%-6.9 PPG
04-05: 40%-8.2 PPG
05-06: 42%-7.5 PPG
06-07: 38%-6.2 PPG
07-08: 42%-6 PPG
08-09: 43%-2.7 PPG

Did Kobe ever play with a shooter who sat in the corner to get open threes that was this good?
And Bowen was a career 58% FT shooter. :bowdown:
Ron Artest has shot .355 and .356 from three the last two years, that's not horrible, and in 2008-09 (I realize he wasn't on the Lakers just saying) he shot 39.9% from three and he was taking 5.6 threes a game. That's pretty damn good the last time I checked. BTW Derek Fisher has shot 38% or higher from 3 7 times w/ Kobe.


Throughout Kobe's career here are the top 3PT shooters on his teams
1996-97: Eddie Jones (39%), Bryon Scott (39%), Nick Van Exel (38%), Kobe himself (38%)
1997-98: Eddie Jones (39%), Nick Van Exel (39%), Derek Fisher (38%)
1998-99: Glen Rice (39%), Derek Fisher (39%), Derek Harper (37%)
1999-00: Glen Rice (37%)
2000-01: Mike Penberthy (40%), Rick Fox (39%), Isiah Rider (37%)
2001-02: Derek Fisher (41%), Lindsey Hunter (38%), Robert Horry (37%), Devean George (37%)
2002-03: Derek Fisher (40%), Kobe (38%), Rick Fox (38%), Devean George (37%)
2003-04: Bryon Russell (38%)
2004-05: Brian Cook (39%), Jumaine Jones (39%), Chucky Atkins (39%)
2005-06: Brian Cook (43%), Lamar Odom (37%), Smush Parker (37%)
2006-07: Brian Cook (40%), Luke Walton (39%), Sasha Vujacic (37%), Smush Parker (37%)
2007-08: Sasha Vujacic (44%), Derek Fisher (41%), Vladimir Radmanovic (41%), Jordan Farmar (37%)
2008-09: Vladimir Radmanovic (44%), Derek Fisher (40%)
2009-10: Jordan Farmar (38%)
2010-11: Derek Fisher (40%), Lamar Odom (38%), Steve Blake (38%)


Damn. Kobe has played with elite shooters his whole career. :oldlol:

[RRR3]

Don't waste you time, cuz that's all they do. NOTHING Kobe does is ever of his own, it's always cuz of somebody else. According to them as well, you're not allowed to form your on opinions, just parrot everybody else like they do, and then throw a pathetic temper tantrum when people don't agree with you. ReallyReallyRe******x3 is a pathetic bandwagon Lebron fan, so naturally, he's going to reason just like one:facepalm
This has nothing to do with your idol LeBron, sorry. You wanna know the reason Kobe is not, and will never be the GOAT? Fine:
http://pictureloaders.com/images/pictures-of-michael-jordan5.jpg

[JohnnyWall]

Eddie Jones, Derek Fisher, Glen Rice, Mike Penberthy, Rick Fox, Isiah Rider, Bryon Russell, Brian Cook, Jumaine Jones, Chucky Atkins, Smush Parker, Jordan Farmar, Steve Blake

elite shooters

:oldlol:

[LakersReign]

This has nothing to do with your idol LeBron, sorry. You wanna know the reason Kobe is not, and will never be the GOAT? Fine:
http://pictureloaders.com/images/pictures-of-michael-jordan5.jpg


WOW....MY idol....really?!

So...that must be why YOU'RE the one cryin' like a little girl over people not being in love with him like you CLEARLY are.....right?!:facepalm


Please answer all as completely and honestly as you can.

1. If you're not a Cavaliers fan, why are you still mad that he left the Cavs? "The Decision" wasn't his idea, and if he had declined then you would probably be blasting him for not raising money for chairty. Even if he was an arrogant jerk, as you claim, why are you still angry about it if you're not a Cavs fan?
2. If LeBron is such a "choker" then why are we making a big deal of his performance in the NBA finals? After all, he ALWAYS chokes, right? So we KNEW this would happen, right?
3. If LeBron isn't the best player in the NBA, why do you place insane expectations on him? I've never seen another player average 38/8/8 in a series and get labeled a "choker".
4. If LeBron is Wade's "sidekick", why does he get 100% of the blame when the Heat lose?
5. If Kobe is so much better than LeBron, why do Kobe fans always bring up LeBron's lack of rings if they perceive anyone to be insulting Kobe?
6. If LeBron "choked" against the Mavericks, what did Kobe do? I realize he has 5 rings, but how did LeBron not have a more succesful 2010-2011 year than Kobe?
7. Why exactly do you hate someone you don't even know enough to wish them physical and mental pain and make fun of their family?
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=232011

Oh, and by the way, that applies to YOUR boyfriend Lebron too as well. You do know that....right?!:facepalm


Nice try:applause:

[c3z4r]

Shaq's Career ended in 06.
He was basically Wizards Jordan but worse, a complete Shell of himself.

His Career is from 93-06.

Dont be a stupid fgt by bringing up players he played with after that point.

:facepalm

Put 93-04 Shaq on any of those teams he played on after 06 and they win the Title automatically.


Hey godzuki, you getting tired of the old username?

[RRR3]

:oldlol:
I was trolling a bit there, but they all shot very well in certain years. Also, you're retarded if you don't think Glen Rice was an elite shooter.

[DFish]

http://i.imgur.com/JPaVl.jpg

[32Dayz]

http://i.imgur.com/JPaVl.jpg

Shaq is just saying whats best for his Career/Image.

You really think the MDE likes Kobe and really considers him the GOAT Laker.

:facepalm Some people are so naive.

[Odinn]

1998 3
1999 1
2000 1
2001 1
2002 1
2003 1
2004 1
2005 0
2006 0
2007 0
2008 0
2009 1
2010 1
2011 1
2012 :confusedshrug:
Let's play this game for Duncan. Will you accept Duncan > Kobe?

1998 1
2000 1
2001 1
2002 0
2003 0
2004 0
2005 1
2006 1
2007 1
2008 0
2009 1
2010 0
2011 1

Kobe had 12 all-star teammates, Duncan had 8. Kobe had no all-star teammates for 4 times, Duncan had 5 times.

Duncan won it all without an All-Star or All-NBA teammate in 2003.

I din't write this to start a Duncan-Kobe debate. Your agenda and your attempt to make Kobe look better idiotic.

[kidachi]

When will Kobe stans stop acting like the Lakers have a shitty supporting cast? ****ing dipshits.. acting like Kobe is being pushed around by the league.. :facepalm

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Let's play this game for Duncan. Will you accept Duncan > Kobe?

1998 1
2000 1
2001 1
2002 0
2003 0
2004 0
2005 1
2006 1
2007 1
2008 0
2009 1
2010 0
2011 1

Kobe had 12 all-star teammates, Duncan had 8. Kobe had no all-star teammates for 4 times, Duncan had 5 times.

Duncan won it all without an All-Star or All-NBA teammate in 2003.

I din't write this to start a Duncan-Kobe debate. Your agenda and your attempt to make Kobe look better idiotic.

Thanks for proving my point. Nobody claims Duncan had stacked championship teams. His team did have more HOFers and all defensive team award winners however. Regardless the fact that Duncan's supporting cast are not markedly different than Kobe just further proves how absurd the myth of Kobe having stacked teammates relative to other legendary players is.

[AlphaWolf24]

Shaq is just saying whats best for his Career/Image.

You really think the MDE likes Kobe and really considers him the GOAT Laker.

:facepalm Some people are so naive.


:facepalm cot damn you stupid...


you think it's best for Snaq's career/image to pick Kobe?...


Snaq is just keepin it 100 Grade A non watered down pure and simple..

somthin you lack...Helen Kellar can see Kobe is the GOAL

[AlphaWolf24]

Thanks for proving my point. Nobody claims Duncan had stacked championship teams. His team did have more HOFers and all defensive team award winners however. Regardless the fact that Duncan's supporting cast are not markedly different than Kobe just further proves how absurd the myth of Kobe having stacked teammates relative to other legendary players is.

this

[kidachi]

:facepalm cot damn you stupid...


you think it's best for Snaq's career/image to pick Kobe?...


Snaq is just keepin it 100 Grade A non watered down pure and simple..

somthin you lack...Helen Kellar can see Kobe is the GOAL

But if Shaq says something negative about Kobe he's wrong, right? you'd hate 'em..

KOBE'S STILL 2ND TO MAGIC

[AlphaWolf24]

Really, it's pretty obvious who had more help during their careers.

As for the OP's question, probably not.


yeah...Def Duncan...




Gino ethered again...

[AlphaWolf24]

But if Shaq says something negative about Kobe he's wrong, right? you'd hate 'em..

KOBE'S STILL 2ND TO MAGIC


Shaq has said many Neg things about Kobe...but he has always been consistent and called him the best player he has ever played with...and the GOALakers...

"Kobe's still 2nd to magic" - nice opinion and very debatable...but many widely view Kobe as the GOAL

"Kobe is 2nd to Jordan" is more like it.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Shaq played with Penny for 2-3 years and Wade for 1-2 years.

Shaq was a much better player then Penny every year they were together and Prime Shaq was galaxys better then 97-04 Kobe.

Kobe from 97-04 played with the best player in the league and arguably the GOAT or a GOAT candidate in Prime/Peak Shaq.

Kobe played with Prime Gasol and a stacked team from 08-10 and in 2010 when he won his second title with that team he was outplayed and less valuable then Gasol in the regular season and post season.

Shaq won 3 Titles as the best player on his own team and was the best player on his own team 13/14 years.

Kobe won 1 Title as the best player on his own team and was the best player on his own team 7/14 years.

-Next.

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

How pathetic is this kid?
spams the same thing everyday, you must have a good life :facepalm

[32Dayz]

How pathetic is this kid?
spams the same thing everyday, you must have a good life :facepalm

lol all you do is follow me around and leave some whiney douchey comments after my posts.

I bet your life is amazing. :cheers:

U just cant accept the fact that Kobe has been lucky with supporting Casts. If for the majority of your Career you get to play with a player or players better then yourself your obviously either a shitty player (not Kobe) or a very lucky player (yes Kobe)

[Cali Syndicate]

Shaq has said many Neg things about Kobe...but he has always been consistent and called him the best player he has ever played with...and the GOALakers...

"Kobe's still 2nd to magic" - nice opinion and very debatable...but many widely view Kobe as the GOAL

"Kobe is 2nd to Jordan" is more like it.

Many, yes....majority, no.

[LakersReign]

Thanks for proving my point. Nobody claims Duncan had stacked championship teams. His team did have more HOFers and all defensive team award winners however. Regardless the fact that Duncan's supporting cast are not markedly different than Kobe just further proves how absurd the myth of Kobe having stacked teammates relative to other legendary players is.

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[DMAVS41]

yeah...Def Duncan...




Gino ethered again...

What?

How can you possibly think Duncan had more help than Kobe?

Do you honestly believe this?

[brisbaneman]

Dirk>>>>>all

[brantonli]

Phil Jackson was worth 2 all stars all by himself.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

guess not

:facepalm

[Boston C's]

I don't understand what this proves... for most of his career hes had at least 1 all star teammate... how about looking at hakeem who won 2 titles with zero I think thats more impressive... many players have won a title with "only" one all star teammate

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I don't understand what this proves... for most of his career hes had at least 1 all star teammate... how about looking at hakeem who won 2 titles with zero I think thats more impressive... many players have won a title with "only" one all star teammate

maybe 1 or 2 but not 5

:confusedshrug:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

How about 2013?

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Your a dumbfu**.

Kobe from 08-11 had a Top 3 League-Wide Supporting Cast.

Kobe from 97-04 had Prime Shaq who alone is worth 3-5 Average All-Stars.
Those early 00 LA teams also had some really nice roleplayers and the GOAT coach in PJ.

Kobe is one of the luckiest if not the luckiest player ever in the history of the game when it comes to Supporting Casts.

Kobe (Like Pippen) got to play with the best player in the game for 6-8+ Years.

Then he gets a stacked supporting Cast for another 4 years.

Doesn't get much "Luckier" then that.

Also making the All-Star game doesnt mean anything its just a popularity contest.
Nick Van Exel was an All-Star in 98 but played like one of the worst scrubs in the league in the playoffs.

:facepalm

-Negged for actually believing this stupid crap.
OP was factually correct. Stop being a bitc h

[Yao Ming's Foot]

bump

[riseagainst]

Your a dumbfu**.

Kobe from 08-11 had a Top 3 League-Wide Supporting Cast.

Kobe from 97-04 had Prime Shaq who alone is worth 3-5 Average All-Stars.
Those early 00 LA teams also had some really nice roleplayers and the GOAT coach in PJ.

Kobe is one of the luckiest if not the luckiest player ever in the history of the game when it comes to Supporting Casts.

Kobe (Like Pippen) got to play with the best player in the game for 6-8+ Years.

Then he gets a stacked supporting Cast for another 4 years.

Doesn't get much "Luckier" then that.

Also making the All-Star game doesnt mean anything its just a popularity contest.
Nick Van Exel was an All-Star in 98 but played like one of the worst scrubs in the league in the playoffs.

:facepalm

-Negged for actually believing this stupid crap.


where is this guy?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Roughly 25% of the games have been played until the 2014 all star game...

Dwight Howard is likely in

Doesn't look like Pau Gasol's numbers are close to all star worthy and Steve Nash obvious injury issues will keep him out

16 years... :facepalm

[Boston C's]

Roughly 25% of the games have been played until the 2014 all star game...

Dwight Howard is likely in

Doesn't look like Pau Gasol's numbers are close to all star worthy and Steve Nash obvious injury issues will keep him out

16 years... :facepalm

woah is me...kobe has a team of pau gasol, steve nash and dwight howard... man do I feel so bad for that guy :lol

[LamarOdom]

da gawd doesn't need all star teammates to win

I see you been doing this awhile now.

[KG215]

Roughly 25% of the games have been played until the 2014 all star game...

Dwight Howard is likely in

Doesn't look like Pau Gasol's numbers are close to all star worthy and Steve Nash obvious injury issues will keep him out

16 years... :facepalm
Obvious agenda is obvious.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

and its official

:facepalm

[DetroitPistonFan]

Your a dumbfu**.

Kobe from 08-11 had a Top 3 League-Wide Supporting Cast.

Kobe from 97-04 had Prime Shaq who alone is worth 3-5 Average All-Stars.
Those early 00 LA teams also had some really nice roleplayers and the GOAT coach in PJ.

Kobe is one of the luckiest if not the luckiest player ever in the history of the game when it comes to Supporting Casts.

Kobe (Like Pippen) got to play with the best player in the game for 6-8+ Years.

Then he gets a stacked supporting Cast for another 4 years.

Doesn't get much "Luckier" then that.

Also making the All-Star game doesnt mean anything its just a popularity contest.
Nick Van Exel was an All-Star in 98 but played like one of the worst scrubs in the league in the playoffs.

:facepalm

-Negged for actually believing this stupid crap.
Jordan was lucky to have Pippen, Rodman, Grant, Harper and Kukoc.

[PJR]

There could never be a 3rd player putting up all star level production on a Kobe led team, as they'd wouldn't get enough shot attempts to do so, with Wannabe Jordan shot jacking.

[gengiskhan]

Jordan was lucky to have Pippen, Rodman, Grant, Harper and Kukoc.

Hmm. Lets analize it.

Pippen is lucky to have MJ as teammate. without MJ, look what Pip become as a rocket & blazer. a shadow of himself.

Grant is lucky to have GOAT as teammate. without GOAT, Grant couldn't even make it to all-star reserve as Magic.

Harper is lucky to have GOAT as teammate. without GOAT, Harper was pathetic as clipper, not even an all-star after injury.

Rodman is lucky to have GOAT as teammate just like MJ was lucky to play with Rodman. If Rodman had 2 back-2-back DPOY title. MJ had one DPOY. If Rodman had 8 rebounds title. MJ had 10 scoring titles. It was mutual with dennis. both brough tremendous skillset to the table. If rodman was 2 x NBA champ. MJ was 3 x NBA champ without him.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

There could never be a 3rd player putting up all star level production on a Kobe led team, as they'd wouldn't get enough shot attempts to do so, with Wannabe Jordan shot jacking.

Which current Laker player would be the 3rd all star if only they had more shot attempts and who would they replace on the team?

[KG215]

and its official

:facepalm
What the hell does this prove? This is even more shallow and obvious than your DRtg agenda. Kobe's almost always had one All-Star teammate, meaning he's on a team with two All-Stars? How many other teams these days do you see with three All-Stars? And out of those teams, how many times did they have three truly deserving All-Stars?

I've never understood why you try to use this argument in your Kobe agenda. It's one of the most ignorant Kobe stan arguments out there. Poor Kobe, he's never had the luxury of playing on a team with three All-Stars. How stupid would I sound if I started trying to use that same exact bullshit to prop-up Durant who's never had more than one All-Star teammate? Yet, somehow, he's been able to take a team to the WCF, NBA Finals, and on his way to a fourth straight 50+ win season all before turning 25 despite never having more than one All-Star teammate.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

What the hell does this prove? This is even more shallow and obvious than your DRtg agenda. Kobe's almost always had one All-Star teammate, meaning he's on a team with two All-Stars? How many other teams these days do you see with three All-Stars? And out of those teams, how many times did they have three truly deserving All-Stars?

I've never understood why you try to use this argument in your Kobe agenda. It's one of the most ignorant Kobe stan arguments out there. Poor Kobe, he's never had the luxury of playing on a team with three All-Stars. How stupid would I sound if I started trying to use that same exact bullshit to prop-up Durant who's never had more than one All-Star teammate? Yet, somehow, he's been able to take a team to the WCF, NBA Finals, and on his way to a fourth straight 50+ win season all before turning 25 despite never having more than one All-Star teammate.

The Top 3 players from both teams that made the Finals last year are in this years all star game. :confusedshrug:

[PJR]

Which current Laker player would be the 3rd all star if only they had more shot attempts and who would they replace on the team?

The Spaniard F/C who put up 19/11 and was All NBA and an all star as recently as 2011.

The reason why the Lakers will only ever have one other all star is because that's all wannabe Jordan will allow. Kobe publicly demoted Gasol to third banana as Bynum emerged last year. It's either one of the other with wannabe Jordan, because he's getting his 28ppg regardless.

[KG215]

The Top 3 players from both teams that made the Finals last year are in this years all star game. :confusedshrug:
And? Harden doesn't play for OKC this year. Using your logic, Kobe has two teammates this year that were All-Stars last year, and a third that's been an All-Star three times in the last four years.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The Spaniard F/C who put up 19/11 and was All NBA and an all star as recently as 2011.

The reason why the Lakers will only ever have one other all star is because that's all wannabe Jordan will allow. Kobe publicly demoted Gasol to third banana as Bynum emerged last year. It's either one of the other with wannabe Jordan, because he's getting his 28ppg regardless.

Well Pau is currently averaging 12.7 points and 8.2 rebounds on 43% shooting... so who is he replacing now that hes being forced to take even more inefficient shots?

Can't add Pau without taking somebody else off the team:confusedshrug:

[RRR3]

Last year Kobe had Andrew Bynum putting up 19/12/1/1/2 on 56% and Pau Gasol putting up 17/10/4/1/1 on 50%. That's the equivalent of playing with two all-stars and YMF knows it. **** outta here.

[KG215]

Last year Kobe had Andrew Bynum putting up 19/12/1/1/2 on 56% and Pau Gasol putting up 17/10/4/1/1 on 50%. That's the equivalent of playing with two all-stars and YMF knows it. **** outta here.
Naw, it's time to face facts. Kobe's never had much help. He's never been blessed to have a team featuring three All-Stars. That, along with facing much better defenses (because of DRtg) are the two main reasons Kobe >>>>> Jordan.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

And? Harden doesn't play for OKC this year. Using your logic, Kobe has two teammates this year that were All-Stars last year, and a third that's been an All-Star three times in the last four years.

None of Kobe's post season resume was built on Nash or Dwight Howard. Durant's was built on Westbrook AND Harden. Lebron's was built on Bosh AND Wade. Kobe's was built on Shaq OR Gasol.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Last year Kobe had Andrew Bynum putting up 19/12/1/1/2 on 56% and Pau Gasol putting up 17/10/4/1/1 on 50%. That's the equivalent of playing with two all-stars and YMF knows it. **** outta here.

Who are you taking off the team last year to stick Pau on?

[PJR]

Pau Gasol 3x All NBA

Andrew Bynum All NBA second team (2012)

Both present on the Lakers title rosters in 2009 and 2010.

Wannabe Jordan with all the help he needs with those big tall trees playing volley ball inside. :bowdown:

[red1]

Kobe always has had good teammates for most of his career. Stop whining f*gg*t

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Pau Gasol 3x All NBA

Andrew Bynum All NBA second team (2012)

Both present on the Lakers title rosters in 2009 and 2010.

Wannabe Jordan with all the help he needs with those big tall trees playing volley ball inside. :bowdown:

Pau Gasol Postseason

2009 18.3/10.8
2010 19.6/11.1

:applause:

Andrew Bynum

2009 6.3/3.7
2010 8.6/6.9

:biggums:

[RRR3]

Who are you taking off the team last year to stick Pau on?
IDGAF if he made it or not, he was still playing like an all-star last year. There have been other years Bynum played at borderline all-star level when he was healthy before he finally made it in 2012. Lamar Odom was an All-Star level player some years as well, but came off the bench, which is a huge luxury. Prime Shaq should count as like ten all-stars anyways :lol




Edit: Why don't you look at Bynum's MPG in those playoff runs and whether he was healthy or not, you stupid ****? I thought you liked context?

[PJR]

Bynum with the ultimate sacrificing of his individual game for the betterment of the team. What a quality teammate. :applause:

Luckily it would pay of for him as Wannabe Jordan would later publicly promote him to second option, thus Big Bynum's monstrous production in 2012 came as a result. Well deserving of his all NBA 2nd team selection. :applause:

[KG215]

None of Kobe's post season resume was built on Nash or Dwight Howard. Durant's was built on Westbrook AND Harden. Lebron's was built on Bosh AND Wade. Kobe's was built on Shaq OR Gasol.
Congratulations. You've found the stupidest argument to try and prop-up Kobe over other superstars.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

IDGAF if he made it or not, he was still playing like an all-star last year. There have been other years Bynum played at borderline all-star level when he was healthy before he finally made it in 2012. Lamar Odom was an All-Star level player some years as well, but came off the bench, which is a huge luxury. Prime Shaq should count as like ten all-stars anyways :lol




Edit: Why don't you look at Bynum's MPG in those playoff runs and whether he was healthy or not, you stupid ****? I thought you liked context?

Bynum being injured is the context. An injured Bynum is by no means a second all star.

Lamar Odom has never been all star in his entire career.

[RRR3]

Congratulations. You've found the stupidest argument to try and prop-up Kobe over other superstars.
How can that goddam idiot even type that? Harden wasn't a ****ing All-Star last year, and he says "Durant's post season resume was built on Westbrook and Harden". That ****** is basing this off Harden being an All-Star THIS year, but ignores Bynum, like Harden, making an All-Star team AFTER helping his superstar teammate to a ring. GTFOH YMF we're all tired of your incessant "Kobe is GOAT" agenda

[KG215]

Bynum being injured is the context. An injured Bynum is by no means a second all star.

Lamar Odom has never been all star in his entire career.
Just because a player wasn't an All-Star in a particular season, doesn't mean they didn't have an All-Star caliber season. Seriously, I do not get the point of this part of your agenda. At least DRtg is somewhat useful and doesn't make you look like a complete idiot. This, though? Kobe never having two All-Star teammates? Who the f**k cares?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Just because a player wasn't an All-Star in a particular season, doesn't mean they didn't have an All-Star caliber season. Seriously, I do not get the point of this part of your agenda. At least DRtg is somewhat useful and doesn't make you look like a complete idiot. This, though? Kobe never having two All-Star teammates? Who the f**k cares?

None of Kobe's title teams featured a 2nd teammate having an "all star caliber season". If it doesn't matter I have no idea why you are arguing about it let alone getting angry. :confusedshrug:

[RRR3]

None of Kobe's title teams featured a 2nd teammate having an "all star caliber season". :confusedshrug:
Andrew Bynum's stats in 2009 and 2010 regular season are as good as or better than many of the Centers who have made All-Star teams in recent years. What he did in the playoffs is irrelevant in regards to your agenda, because Chris Bosh sure as hell didn't play like an "All-Star" in last year's playoffs. Hell, Dwyane Wade underperformed as well.


Expecting YMF to ignore this post or deflect.

[KG215]

None of Kobe's title teams featured a 2nd teammate having an "all star caliber season". If it doesn't matter I have no idea why you are arguing about it let alone getting angry. :confusedshrug:
I'm not angry. I'm confused by the stupidity of this and why there's 10 page thread on it.

Anyway...From 2000-2002 he had Shaq, arguably the most dominant player ever at his peak, which was the equivalent of two All-Star teammates. And in 2009 and 2010 Odom's numbers may not have warranted an All-Star selection, but he was every bit as good as an All-Star caliber player, especially when you consider his role and that he was coming off the bench. He averaged 13-11-4-1-1 per 36 those two years, and gave Kobe and Pau a more than capable third option. And he had a future All-Star in Bynum starting at center on those teams and, at the very least, making a difference on the defensive end when healthy (just using your James Harden logic).

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Andrew Bynum's stats in 2009 and 2010 regular season are as good as or better than many of the Centers who have made All-Star teams in recent years. What he did in the playoffs is irrelevant in regards to your agenda, because Chris Bosh sure as hell didn't play like an "All-Star" in last year's playoffs. Hell, Dwyane Wade underperformed as well.


Expecting YMF to ignore this post or deflect.

Bynum averaged roughly 14/8 2009-2010 and missed about 50 games.
:confusedshrug: That's not close to anybody who actually made the team. That's why I ask you to choose whose spot he would take. I'm trying to inject some reality into your delusional world.

[KG215]

Expecting YMF to ignore this post or deflect.
One thing he's very good at is deflecting or finding something else to use to back-up his argument. He's actually much more intelligent than 99% of the other Kobe stans who post here. It's just that his arguments are very pointless or ignorant and his agenda is very obvious. And he'll cleverly claim he doesn't have an agenda, he's just stating facts or dispelling the Jordan myths.

[RRR3]

Bynum averaged roughly 14/8 2009-2010 and missed about 50 games.
:confusedshrug: That's not close to anybody who actually made the team. That's why I ask you to choose whose spot he would take. I'm trying to inject some reality into your delusional world.
What the **** are Tyson Chandler, Luol Deng, and Joakim Noah putting up? What did Luol Deng put up last year? What did Marc Gasol put up last year? And finally, HOW MANY MINUTES WAS BYNUM PLAYING? You're being deliberately obtuse to deflect from the fact that your boy has always had lots of help. Shut the hell up already, you should be permabanned.

[RRR3]

One thing he's very good at is deflecting or finding something else to use to back-up his argument. He's actually much more intelligent than 99% of the other Kobe stans who post here. It's just that his arguments are very pointless or ignorant and his agenda is very obvious. And he'll cleverly claim he doesn't have an agenda, he's just stating facts or dispelling the Jordan myths.
He's "clever" compared to Mr. Jibber Jabber and 9erempiree, sure, but he's a delusional ****tard who is a cancer to ISH. **** him.

[secund2nun]

Because you are twisting things. As if 1998 was Kobe's best supporting cast because it had 3 all stars? LOL

You can post all-star teammates or whatever you like. The simple truth is that Kobe has been blessed with a legit championship contending supporting cast every year he's been in the league other than 05, 06, and 07.....that is an indisputable fact mate.

And in 05, 06, 07 prime Kobe could not even win a playoff series. LOL He is the most overrated basketball player ever and possibly the most overrated athlete of all times. And not only the fact that he cannot lead a team past the first round , but his performances when he had a stacked team was not even that good especially in the NBA finals. 6-24 ring a bell?

The guy is a big market media myth. The MOAT- most overrated of all time.

[KG215]

Bynum averaged roughly 14/8 2009-2010 and missed about 50 games.
:confusedshrug: That's not close to anybody who actually made the team. That's why I ask you to choose whose spot he would take. I'm trying to inject some reality into your delusional world.
I like that anyone that argues or disagrees with you lives in a delusional world. I've found that people that think their "factual" based arguments are 100% fool-proof are usually the delusional ones.

What makes this particular argument so annoying is that, yes, what you're saying is factually correct. But the second someone tries to put it into context to counter your agenda, they're delusional. It's really no different than the Kobe fanboys who like to use the "Shaq couldn't win until he got Kobe" argument. A factually correct statement but, the second you try to put it into any kind of context, you're a "hater."

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I'm not angry. I'm confused by the stupidity of this and why there's 10 page thread on it.

Anyway...From 2000-2002 he had Shaq, arguably the most dominant player ever at his peak, which was the equivalent of two All-Star teammates. And in 2009 and 2010 Odom's numbers may not have warranted an All-Star selection, but he was every bit as good as an All-Star caliber player, especially when you consider his role and that he was coming off the bench. He averaged 13-11-4-1-1 per 36 those two years, and gave Kobe and Pau a more than capable third option. And he had a future All-Star in Bynum starting at center on those teams and, at the very least, making a difference on the defensive end when healthy (just using your James Harden logic).

The difference between an all star, an all star caliber player and a "capable third option" is vast. Odom was neither the first two. There isn't a team dynamic in the league that would have made Odom an all star from 2008-2010.

[secund2nun]

Playoff PER

A's (Main Star) :
Shaq (00-02) : 29
Jordan (91-93 + 96-98) : 28.53

B's (Side-Kicks) :
Kobe (00-02) : 21
Pippen (91-93 + 96-98) : 19.5

The difference is clear and obvious.

Comparison Between Kobe/Gasol in 2010.

Regular Season PER / WShares
Gasol : 22.9 ||| 11
Kobe : 21.9 ||| 9.4

Playoff PER / WShares
Gasol : 24 ||| 4.7
Kobe : 24.7 ||| 3.6

2010 Playoff Summary.
Gasol better in 12/23 Games.
Kobe better in 10/23 Games.

Gasol >= Kobe in 2010

-------------------------------------------------------------

MVP Shares / Votes / Points from 01-05.
TMac : 925
Kobe : 817

01 - 05
TMac > Kobe

Players from this Generation :

Jordan > Shaq >>> Duncan > Hakeem >>>>> KG/Kobe

-------------------------------------------------------------

#1.
Jordan : Post Season - PER
Peak : 32
Top 5 : 30.16
Top 7 : 29.61
Top 10 : 28.89
Top 13 : 28.6

------------------------------------------------------------

#2.
Shaq : Post Season - PER
Peak : 31
Top 5 : 30
Top 7 : 29.56
Top 10 : 28.52
Top 13 : 26.55
14th to 16th Season (Final 3 Seasons) - 18.33

------------------------------------------------------------

#4.
Duncan : Post Season - PER
Peak : 28.4
Top 5 : 26.96
Top 7 : 27.49
Top 10 : 26.67
Top 13 : 25.4

------------------------------------------------------------

#12.
Hakeem : Post Season - PER
Peak : 27.7
Top 5 : 24.95
Top 7 : 24.61

------------------------------------------------------------

#14.
KG : Post Season - PER
Peak : 25.5
Top 5 : 24.68
Top 7 : 24

------------------------------------------------------------

#15.
Kobe : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.8
Top 5 : 24
Top 7 : 23
Top 10 : 22.98
Top 13 : 21.62


Saved and rep! Kobe and Gasol are equals, not batman and robin. Gasol was the real 2010 finals MVP.

[KG215]

The difference between an all star, an all star caliber player and a "capable third option" is vast. Odom was neither the first two. There isn't a team dynamic in the league that would have made Odom an all star from 2008-2010.
And how do you know this?

Tell me this, does a team with three All-Stars automatically have a better supporting cast (era specific, don't start comparing Kobe's teams to Bird's Celtics and Magics Lakers) than a team with two All-Stars? Why are you so hellbent on pushing this "Kobe's gone X number of years with only one All-Star teammate" agenda?

[Heavincent]

And in 05, 06, 07 prime Kobe could not even win a playoff series. LOL He is the most overrated basketball player ever and possibly the most overrated athlete of all times. And not only the fact that he cannot lead a team past the first round , but his performances when he had a stacked team was not even that good especially in the NBA finals. 6-24 ring a bell?

The guy is a big market media myth. The MOAT- most overrated of all time.

:roll:

This dude's mad as ****.

[RRR3]

Andre Iguodala made the all-star team putting up like 12/5/5 last year. Luol Deng made it putting up like 15/6/3. Yet somehow Lamar Odom who some years put up like 17/10/5 wasn't an All-Star caliber player? Are you shitting me? Tyson ****in' Chandler is an All-Star, you really think Bynum wasn't All-Star level based on the weak competition amongst big men a few of those years? He didn't play many minutes, remember, but I'm sure you'll ignore that like the Kobe dickrider you are. Seriously, just propose to Kobe already.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I like that anyone that argues or disagrees with you lives in a delusional world. I've found that people that think their "factual" based arguments are 100% fool-proof are usually the delusional ones.

What makes this particular argument so annoying is that, yes, what you're saying is factually correct. But the second someone tries to put it into context to counter your agenda, they're delusional. It's really no different than the Kobe fanboys who like to use the "Shaq couldn't win until he got Kobe" argument. A factually correct statement but, the second you try to put it into any kind of context, you're a "hater."

People who make delusional statements are delusional. The statlines of Andrew Bynum, Lamar Odom and Pau Gasol that have been thrown out don't size up in the slightest to the big men selected to the all star game the last few years.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Andre Iguodala EAST made the all-star team putting up like 12/5/5 last year. Luol Deng EAST made it putting up like 15/6/3. Yet somehow Lamar Odom WEST who some years put up like 17/10/5 wasn't an All-Star caliber player? Are you shitting me? Tyson ****in' Chandler EAST is an All-Star, you really think Bynum WEST wasn't All-Star level based on the weak competition amongst big men a few of those years? He didn't play many minutes, remember, but I'm sure you'll ignore that like the Kobe dickrider you are. Seriously, just propose to Kobe already.

:facepalm

[KG215]

People who make delusional statements are delusional. The statlines of Andrew Bynum, Lamar Odom and Pau Gasol that have been thrown out don't size up in the slightest to the big men selected to the all star game the last few years.
Again, numbers don't always mean a player wasn't having an All-Star caliber season. Odom in 2009 and 2010 was putting up great all-around numbers, off the bench in a clearly defined third option role, playing only about 30 minutes a game. Just because someone wasn't officially an All-Star doesn't mean they didn't have seasons comparable to other All-Stars.

[KG215]

:facepalm
:facepalm

:confusedshrug:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

And how do you know this?

Tell me this, does a team with three All-Stars automatically have a better supporting cast (era specific, don't start comparing Kobe's teams to Bird's Celtics and Magics Lakers) than a team with two All-Stars? Why are you so hellbent on pushing this "Kobe's gone X number of years with only one All-Star teammate" agenda?

No, I wouldn't say that. A great supporting cast could also include all defensive teammates or great shooters.

I reject the entire premise of the question. I'm not hellbent on anything. I'm casually making message board posts to distract me from doing some accounting homework.

[CP3MVP]

Odom's never been all-star caliber, though a great sixth man at one time.

[RRR3]

People who make delusional statements are delusional. The statlines of Andrew Bynum, Lamar Odom and Pau Gasol that have been thrown out don't size up in the slightest to the big men selected to the all star game the last few years.
Tyson Chandler 12/11, 2013 All-Star
Joakim Noah 12/11, 2013 AS
Luol Deng 15/7 and 16/6, 2012 and 2013 AS
Roy Hibbert 13/9, 2012 AS
Andre Iguodala-12/6/6, 2012 AS
Marc Gasol-15/9, 2012 AS
Zach Randolph-16/12, 2013 AS


Andrew Bynum in 09 and 10- 14/8 and 15/8 in only 28 and 30 MPG respectively
Pau Gasol in 2012-17/10
Lamar Odom during Lakers career (05-11)-15/10/4, 15/9/6, 16/10/5, 14/11/4, 11/8/3, 11/10/3, 14/9/4




YMF ADDRESS THIS POST

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Again, numbers don't always mean a player wasn't having an All-Star caliber season. Odom in 2009 and 2010 was putting up great all-around numbers, off the bench in a clearly defined third option role, playing only about 30 minutes a game. Just because someone wasn't officially an All-Star doesn't mean they didn't have seasons comparable to other All-Stars.

Name an all star big man that Lamar Odom 2008-2010 had a comparable season too.

[RRR3]

Derrr Kobe has to play in the tougher West! EVERYTHING KOBE DOES IS HARDER THAN IT IS FOR ANY OTHER PLAYER BECOZ HE'S GAWDBE! IT'S NOT FAIR! :cry:
:facepalm

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Tyson Chandler 12/11, 2013 All-Star
Joakim Noah 12/11, 2013 AS
Luol Deng 15/7 and 16/6, 2012 and 2013 AS
Roy Hibbert 13/9, 2012 AS
Andre Iguodala-12/6/6, 2012 AS
Marc Gasol-15/9, 2012 AS
Zach Randolph-16/12, 2013 AS


Andrew Bynum in 09 and 10- 14/8 and 15/8 in only 28 and 30 MPG respectively
Pau Gasol in 2012-17/10
Lamar Odom during Lakers career (05-11)-15/10/4, 15/9/6, 16/10/5, 14/11/4, 11/8/3, 11/10/3, 14/9/4




YMF ADDRESS THIS POST

The relevant comparison for Odom and Bynum are obviously western conference all star big men from 08-10.

[secund2nun]

:roll:

This dude's mad as ****.

More like you are because the truth hurts. :roll: Kome can't make the playoffs with 3 HOFer teammates LOLL

[Heavincent]

More like you are because the truth hurts. :roll: Kome can't make the playoffs with 3 HOFer teammates LOLL

5 rings

[Yao Ming's Foot]

5 rings with only 1 HOF teammate per title team

Unmatched in history

:bowdown:

[juju151111]

I'm am confused? What's the point of this thread? Kobe isn't relevant right now at 34. While players like MJ was winning chips at 35. Sad really

[Boston C's]

Unmatched in history

:bowdown:

yea cuz dirk definitely won with an all star 2 yrs ago.... o wait

[juju151111]

Unmatched in history

:bowdown:
This guy might not even make the playoffs while Mj made it at 35 with a broken knuckle and Pippen and Rodman missing count less games.:lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

Saved and rep! Kobe and Gasol are equals, not batman and robin. Gasol was the real 2010 finals MVP.
It's 2013 and some people still can't accept something that happened in 2009-2010?

2009
MVP- Kobe 2nd, Pau never received a vote
Finals MVP- Kobe

2010
MVP- Kobe 3rd, Pau never received a vote
Finals MVP- Kobe

Denial aint just a river in Egypt.

[KG215]

Name an all star big man that Lamar Odom 2008-2010 had a comparable season too.
I'm sure if I look up the All-Star teams that season, and compare Odom's modest 11-9-3 stat line to theirs, it will pale in comparison. That doesn't mean Odom wasn't one hell of a third option. He was essentially averaging a double-double while being the leader of the second unit, handling multiple responsibilities and was an excellent third option. That's why I don't understand this argument. Just because Odom was never an All-Star doesn't make him lesser of a teammate in his role on a great team. Comparing his impact, role, and what he did for the Lakers to the third banana on the other championship caliber teams in the league at the time, and it doesn't get much better.

In the 2009 playoffs Odom had games of:

19 points, 3 rebounds, 8/9 FG
21 points and 14 rebounds, 10/17 FG
26 points, 15 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks, 10/15 FG
16 points, 13 rebounds, 2 blocks, 7/11 FG
19 points, 14 rebounds, 3 assists, 4 blocks, 7/15 FG
20 points, 8 rebounds, 7/12 FG
19 points, 8 rebounds, 3 blocks, 8/9 FG (Finals)
11 points, 14 rebounds (Finals)
17 points, 10 rebounds (Finals)

I don't remember him being quite as good in 2010, although I'm sure he had some similar playoff performances. Point is, that's why I don't understand why you feel the need to bring up "Kobe's never had more than one All-Star teammate" every so often. Anyone that's followed the NBA the last 10-15 years knows Kobe's had more then capable supporting casts almost every single year of his career other than '05-'07. Outside of the most naive fans will let this allow them to be more impressed by anything Kobe's accomplished.

[KG215]

Unmatched in history

:bowdown:

5 rings with only 1 HOF teammate per title team
When you go to the Kobe Stan Initiation meeting, is the first thing they do is tell you "ignore all context"? Is "ignore context" plastered all over the walls in your church or wherever you gather to worship Kobe?

Just an example of some of the go-to arguments used by Kobe's apostles:

1.) Shaq couldn't win until he got Kobe.
2.) Kobe's never had more than one All-Star teammate
3.) Kobe's only had one HOF teammate per title team

Sure, they look great on the surface...but only if you ignore context. And as I've learned, if you try to put any of them into context, you're instantly labeled a hater.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I'm sure if I look up the All-Star teams that season, and compare Odom's modest 11-9-3 stat line to theirs, it will pale in comparison. That doesn't mean Odom wasn't one hell of a third option. He was essentially averaging a double-double while being the leader of the second unit, handling multiple responsibilities and was an excellent third option. That's why I don't understand this argument. Just because Odom was never an All-Star doesn't make him lesser of a teammate in his role on a great team. Comparing his impact, role, and what he did for the Lakers to the third banana on the other championship caliber teams in the league at the time, and it doesn't get much better.

In the 2009 playoffs Odom had games of:

19 points, 3 rebounds, 8/9 FG
21 points and 14 rebounds, 10/17 FG
26 points, 15 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks, 10/15 FG
16 points, 13 rebounds, 2 blocks, 7/11 FG
19 points, 14 rebounds, 3 assists, 4 blocks, 7/15 FG
20 points, 8 rebounds, 7/12 FG
19 points, 8 rebounds, 3 blocks, 8/9 FG (Finals)
11 points, 14 rebounds (Finals)
17 points, 10 rebounds (Finals)

I don't remember him being quite as good in 2010, although I'm sure he had some similar playoff performances. Point is, that's why I don't understand why you feel the need to bring up "Kobe's never had more than one All-Star teammate" every so often. Anyone that's followed the NBA the last 10-15 years knows Kobe's had more then capable supporting casts almost every single year of his career other than '05-'07. Outside of the most naive fans will let this allow them to be more impressed by anything Kobe's accomplished.

Odom was a fine 3rd option. He just wasn't an all star nor an all star caliber player. Relative to other NBA champions however he as well as Fisher and Glen Rice represent some of the worst 3rd options in NBA championship history. Those spots are traditionally reserved for all stars/hall of famers.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

When you go to the Kobe Stan Initiation meeting, is the first thing they do is tell you "ignore all context"? Is "ignore context" plastered all over the walls in your church or wherever you gather to worship Kobe?

Just an example of some of the go-to arguments used by Kobe's apostles:

1.) Shaq couldn't win until he got Kobe.
2.) Kobe's never had more than one All-Star teammate
3.) Kobe's only had one HOF teammate per title team

Sure, they look great on the surface...but only if you ignore context. And as I've learned, if you try to put any of them into context, you're instantly labeled a hater.

Where did anybody call you a hater?:wtf:

The lady doth protest too much, methinks

[red1]

Relative to the rest of the league, kobe had a a top tier team for both of his championships in 2009 and 2010. Stop selling odom and gasol short because they were a headache for every team that LA went up against.

[Heavincent]

When you go to the Kobe Stan Initiation meeting, is the first thing they do is tell you "ignore all context"? Is "ignore context" plastered all over the walls in your church or wherever you gather to worship Kobe?

Just an example of some of the go-to arguments used by Kobe's apostles:

1.) Shaq couldn't win until he got Kobe.
2.) Kobe's never had more than one All-Star teammate
3.) Kobe's only had one HOF teammate per title team

Sure, they look great on the surface...but only if you ignore context. And as I've learned, if you try to put any of them into context, you're instantly labeled a hater.

The hell are you rambling about? All I did was respond to a dipshit troll by saying "5 rings" and you start crying? :oldlol:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

yea cuz dirk definitely won with an all star 2 yrs ago.... o wait

Dirk won 5 rings for that performance?

:bowdown:

[bigt]

Gotta laugh. Finally gets a second all star and the team's as crap as ever :oldlol:

[Boston C's]

Dirk won 5 rings for that performance?

:bowdown:

no but he won without an all star teammate can kobe win without one?

[CP3MVP]

Gotta laugh. Finally gets a second all star and the team's as crap as ever :oldlol:

Who's the second all-star? He only has one this year too.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

1998 3
1999 1
2000 1
2001 1
2002 1
2003 1
2004 1
2005 0
2006 0
2007 0
2008 0
2009 1
2010 1
2011 1
2012 1
2013 1
2014 0
2015

Maybe next year :confusedshrug: