Have the Knicks improved enough to pass the Bulls and face Heat in ECF?

[hawkfan]

Have the Knicks improved enough to pass the Bulls and face Heat in ECF?

[airchibundo507]

I think so. If Boozer continues to be a non-factor on offense, Rose will find it difficult to be a one man team with 6'6" Shumpert slowing him down and Chandler defending the paint

[PJR]

Chicago yes. Miami no.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Chicago yes. Miami no.

I'd say the opposite. The Knicks matched up well against Heat after that Melo trade, stunning the big three in Miami in March. The Bulls tough defense will shut down the Knicks though.

[Rnbizzle]

I really don't know. Right now I'm expecting;

Heat >> Bulls = Knicks

[Chicago Brawls]

No.

The Bulls are contenders.

[PJR]

I'd say the opposite. The Knicks matched up well against Heat after that Melo trade, stunning the big three in Miami in March. The Bulls tough defense will shut down the Knicks though.

Um, no. It was one meaningless regular season game. Chicago and Boston got the better of Miami in the regular season as well, and how'd that play out?

[32Dayz]

Chicago yes. Miami no.

Thats how I feel.

Knicks are now the 2nd best team in the East after Miami.

:cheers:

[28renyoy]

Knicks have a better front court and Baron Davis is about equal to Rose in terms of being a PG so sure. Bulls might be better off letting Rip handle point and Rose play SG

[Rnbizzle]

Knicks have a better front court and Baron Davis is about equal to Rose in terms of being a PG so sure. Bulls might be better off letting Rip play point and Rose play SG
:roll: :roll: :roll: :facepalm

So much fail in this post.

[(e)]

No, but let's play the games to find out

[blablabla]

Knicks have a better front court and Baron Davis is about equal to Rose in terms of being a PG so sure. Bulls might be better off letting Rip handle point and Rose play SG
the bolded part is the dumbest thing i have ever read on ish

[32Dayz]

the bolded part is the dumbest thing i have ever read on ish

Rose is obviously better then Davis.

However a healthy B.Diddy is a better Leader/Passer/PlayMaker then Rose is right now.

Davis was dropping 7-8 dimes per game for what like 10-12+ seasons?

[28renyoy]

Rose is obviously better then Davis.

However a healthy B.Diddy is a better Leader/Passer/PlayMaker then Rose is right now.

Davis was dropping 7-8 dimes per game for what like 10-12+ seasons?

exactly and he has NOWHERE near the cast rose does. i didn't mean davis is a better overall play, he's just equal or better in terms of being a PG

[Eric Cartman]

I feel these 3 teams been the class of the east with Boston falling substantially (5th seed at best).

Anyways as i look at the matchup what's gonna be interesting to see is if Rose can score & penetrate at will with Chandler down low. Also if Boozer continues to play like shit Stoudermire is gonna have a field day anytime they matchup.

My guess is NOT. Which brings me to a Miami vs Knicks EFC. They are the team that best matchup with the Heat, Anthony on Lebron with Chandler protecting the paint.

Having said that i think the Knicks are 1 year away still & Bron Bron will get a chance at redemption.

[Kiddlovesnets]

I feel these 3 teams been the class of the east with Boston falling substantially (5th seed at best).

Anyways as i look at the matchup what's gonna be interesting to see is if Rose can score & penetrate at will with Chandler down low. Also if Boozer continues to play like shit Stoudermire is gonna have a field day anytime they matchup.

My guess is NOT. Which brings me to a Miami vs Knicks EFC. They are the team that best matchup with the Heat, Anthony on Lebron with Chandler protecting the paint.

Having said that i think the Knicks are 1 year away still & Bron Bron will get a chance at redemption.

umm Id say the Celtics would not fall below 4th, unless the Pacers somehow shock the league or the Nets acquire Dwight right now.

[Mr. Incredible]

Yes. Knicks in 6.

[Hank]

I'd say the opposite. The Knicks matched up well against Heat after that Melo trade, stunning the big three in Miami in March.

LOL looking at regular season.

Heat were 0-3 against Chicago in reg season then beat them handily in 5 games in the playoffs.

Heat were 1-3 against Boston in reg season then beat them handily in 5 games in the playoffs.

And in 2006 the Heat were 2-8 against the Pistons, Nets and Mavs in the regular season. When the playoffs rolled around the Heat beat em all in 6 games or less.

when will people learn that reg season means jack in the post season. Especially when it comes to the Heat as Riley and Spo don't put much stock in regular season play as it's more of an experimental phase for them if anything.

"Championships aren't won in the regular season, they're won in the post season" - Pat Riley

[blablabla]

Rose is obviously better then Davis.

However a healthy B.Diddy is a better Leader/Passer/PlayMaker then Rose is right now.

Davis was dropping 7-8 dimes per game for what like 13-15 seasons?
rose was dropping 8 last season
though i personally think davis is the better passer due to his great court vision but he never used it as much as he could
i like davis and i'm happy that he's on my team but rose is clearly the superior player

[blablabla]

But thinking about it i'd love to see a Chicago vs. New York EFC

if the Bulls get the 1st seed again and the Knicks the 3rd this could be possible

[Eric Cartman]

umm Id say the Celtics would not fall below 4th, unless the Pacers somehow shock the league or the Nets acquire Dwight right now.

Orlando or Nets (the team with D-12) will probably oversead Boston.

Anyways doesn't matter will play each other in the first round regardless.

[GOBB]

NYK can beat bulls in a series. Miami? I don't see it. How nyk backcourt performs during season could determine that.

[MichaelCheazley]

Id like to see bulls vs orlando,celtics or knicks. Their opposition last year seemed to not be too overwhelmed and that was indy and atlanta. Granted that atlanta beat orlando. But then again atlanta is atlanta.

[Bigsmoke]

no i guess.

I need to see them play in the regular season first.

[Hank]

rose was dropping 8 last season
though i personally think davis is the better passer due to his great court vision but he never used it as much as he could
i like davis and i'm happy that he's on my team but rose is clearly the superior player

It's amazing how many people don't know how to really look at statistics. Rose on per possession/pace ranked 59th in the NBA for assists. Hell, Mario Chalmers was ranked in ahead of him in that stat and Chalmers has mediocre to sub mediocre court vision for passing.

The fact of the matter is Rose has poor vision and is not a good passer. He's a shot jacking chucker and they will never win anything with that coming from a PG.

Bulls fans were saying how Rose improved his shot tremendously last year but that's also a lie. Rose was 14th for percentage amongst point guards for 2-point field goals.. He was very mediocre for point guards. And Rose was 9th for most 3-point attempts taken but he was 113th in percentage made.

And let's not forget about the playoffs where Rose was even worse. Under 40% shooting overall and under 25% from downtown. Rose is the perfect example of a very overrated player. He piles up his stats against very poor teams with layups and high percentage shots. But against the very good teams his FG% is atrocious as he doesn't get all those easy chances against the good D's and doesn't have a good shot. He was a pathetic 10% in 4th quarters against the Heat and coming into that series his FG% was atrocious and in the 30's in the two previous series.

Bulls fans try to say that there's nobody else that can shoot on the team and that's why Rose is good. But the reason why that is as well is the fact that he's a poor passer with poor court vision. If Rose was a better passer his teammates would have been in position to score a lot more.

http://swooshnation.com/20110912287/general-nba/derrick-rose-best-point-guard-or-overrated.html

[97 bulls]

Its funny how all these heat lovers are back on the bandwagon after falling off the face of the earth after the debacle last year.

And a lot of you guys don't know jack about how organized basketball is played. Why would boozer need to guard amare when we have noah? If miami plays chicago again in the playoffs, I hope they have the same game plan. I don't think they will be able to continuously leave shooters open in order to help out on rose. What the heat did last year was win a gamble. And they didn't sure up they're biggest weaknesses in pg and bigs. Haslem will help but he's not the answer.

I do like new yorks team though. The addition of chandler will make stats job a lot easier.

[Dwade305]

Knicks have improved enough that they are now not to be laughed at but only to be ignored in mediocrity

[97 bulls]

Another fact you bulls haters fail to realize is that the bulls are extremely young. Their biggest addition from last year will be experience, and continuity.

[2010splash]

No chance. The Knicks were on like a 40 win pace post-Melo trade last season.

The addition of Baron Davis' corpse and Tyson Chandler now put them at high 50 to low 60 wins?

I don't think so.

[blablabla]

It's amazing how many people don't know how to really look at statistics. Rose on per possession/pace ranked 59th in the NBA for assists. Hell, Mario Chalmers was ranked in ahead of him in that stat and Chalmers has mediocre to sub mediocre court vision for passing.

The fact of the matter is Rose has poor vision and is not a good passer. He's a shot jacking chucker and they will never win anything with that coming from a PG.

Bulls fans were saying how Rose improved his shot tremendously last year but that's also a lie. Rose was 14th for percentage amongst point guards for 2-point field goals.. He was very mediocre for point guards. And Rose was 9th for most 3-point attempts taken but he was 113th in percentage made.

And let's not forget about the playoffs where Rose was even worse. Under 40% shooting overall and under 25% from downtown. Rose is the perfect example of a very overrated player. He piles up his stats against very poor teams with layups and high percentage shots. But against the very good teams his FG% is atrocious as he doesn't get all those easy chances against the good D's and doesn't have a good shot. He was a pathetic 10% in 4th quarters against the Heat and coming into that series his FG% was atrocious and in the 30's in the two previous series.

Bulls fans try to say that there's nobody else that can shoot on the team and that's why Rose is good. But the reason why that is as well is the fact that he's a poor passer with poor court vision. If Rose was a better passer his teammates would have been in position to score a lot more.

http://swooshnation.com/20110912287/general-nba/derrick-rose-best-point-guard-or-overrated.html
that's what i thought last year until i started watching more bulls games

[swi7ch]

As long as Carmelo and Amare care only about scoring, the Heat will beat them every year. They are two of the most one-dimensional players in the league it's sad.

[pegasus]

All three of them are good enough to make it to the finals. I'd say the Bulls have a better chance, because they have the best combination of leadership/depth/defense/coaching.

[Rameek]

The Knicks health is a major concern in the post-season. If health isnt the issue I dont see why the Knicks couldnt beat the Bulls. The Bulls has 1 clutch superstar and the Knicks has arguably 3. When its crunch time I dont see why the Knicks couldnt win.

But lets see what happens when its for real.

[The Ownage]

Anyone saying Baron Davis is comparable to D. Rose at this moment of time deserves to get shot.

I think he can be limited though. His favourite move is to drive in the paint and do his signature floater. Chandler and maybe Amare will be able to intimidate him. Noah does a pretty good job at limiting Amare so as long as 'Melo plays consistently I think we have a good chance of beating the Bulls in 6-7 games.

The Heat.. they're so unpredictable. We have the potential to beat them, but that depends more on how the Heat perform rather than how the Knicks perform.

[ballinhun8]

Don't pay any attention to heat007(hanky).


Guy goes by biased articles and reads box scores and studies Hollinger like he is his god.



Anyways, the Knicks have improved greatly but the addition of Baron doesn't do anything yet because hes out for another two months and won't be in shape when he returns. Also depends on what Chandler shows up. He blew up in a contract year so now that he has his money will he have the same hunger.



The Bulls have less firepower but they can score with the best of them. No one on NY will stop Rose. Just depends on if his teammates will pick up the load.



To answer the question, I think the Knicks are a level below Chicago. If their offense isn't on then they'll struggle against a great defensive team like the Bulls. Both teams are below Miami but ironically the Knicks matchup better with Miami but I believe Chicago matches up better wit NY. And Miami with Chicago.

[Kurosawa0]

I'd say the opposite. The Knicks matched up well against Heat after that Melo trade, stunning the big three in Miami in March. The Bulls tough defense will shut down the Knicks though.

And the Bulls beat Miami 3-0 in the regular season. How did that work out? I just don't see having one defensive player on your team being able to get you past probably the best defensive team in the league. I think New York vs. Miami would be a competitive series, but I find it hard to believe the Knicks win 4 out of 7.

[fubu05]

Im sayin Knicks make it to finals and go through Miami for one reason. Melo. He's been the one small forward to always step up to LeBron and play with him. Cajones. I think he leads New York past Miami. Also, this Shumpert kid, looks like he's going to be a defensive stud. His lateral quickness combined with his length/strength is DISGUSTING. Sick him on Rose/Wade and you do the best just about anyone not named Paul George can do.

[drwax26]

Is it possible? Of course. Is it probable? No. I think the Knicks when healthy easily have the best SF,PF, C combination no question. Then after that their roster is pretty lack luster and the lack of depth will kill them. Bulls have a pretty complete starting 5 where as the knicks dont have a PG (Douglas is a scorer/6th man and Baron is severely injured) and Landry fields is a shooting and not much more than that. Also, Bulls have arguably the best bench in the league not to mention the Knicks play ZERO defense. I think in a seven game series the games would be very exciting but i Just dont see the knicks as constructed seriously beating the bulls.

[JD_TO]

the bolded part is the dumbest thing i have ever read on ish
Co signed

[TheMan]

Have the Knicks improved enough to pass the Bulls and face Heat in ECF?
No

Knicks don't play defense, it's D'Antoni's system for fukks sake.

[Yung D-Will]

I remember there was a thread earlier where I predicted that this season the Knicks and Bulls will have roughly the same record and finish behind Miami at 2/3 with Boston barley making number 4 above teams like Atlanta/NJ or whoever decides to have a good year.

Problem with either of these two beating Miami is that I personally feel Chicago is carried by their defense whiles NY is carried by their offense. Not that that's a bad thing it's just that they have apparent weaknesses in the other parts of their game.

Thibs is a great defensive coach but when it came down to offensive plays not centered around Rose just trying to make a play, I questioned how good of an offensive coach he really was along with Boozer the second option brought in to take pressure off Rose being,Well Boozer (all Jazz fans and Bulls fans probally know what that means by now). I'm not trying to call Thibs a Mike Brown clone because he's a new coach and his offense from day 1 was still better than anything I ever saw Mike Brown implement.

Now Mike D'antonio's a great offensive coach but he's never ever even gave a care in the world about defense and it showed last season when only a select few on that team actually competed on that end of the floor. Either way they signed Chandler who Imo isn't a defensive anchor but just a really good defensive big. I don't think he's a guy that suddenly makes ur team much better defensively and changed the culture ( Like kg in 08) but he's a good piece to start building your teams defense. In all honestly I don't think you can have a D'antoni team that is good enough to beat a team like Miami in the playoffs if he never emphasized defense.

[fubu05]

Knicks brought in Mike Woodson as assistant coach. Gotta think he's preaching some sort of defensive philosophies...

All this Knicks team needs is to get to top 12 defensively, and if they do, I think their offense has so much firepower that they will be able to beat anyone.

[knicksman]

Don't pay any attention to heat007(hanky).


Guy goes by biased articles and reads box scores and studies Hollinger like he is his god.



Anyways, the Knicks have improved greatly but the addition of Baron doesn't do anything yet because hes out for another two months and won't be in shape when he returns. Also depends on what Chandler shows up. He blew up in a contract year so now that he has his money will he have the same hunger.



The Bulls have less firepower but they can score with the best of them. No one on NY will stop Rose. Just depends on if his teammates will pick up the load.



To answer the question, I think the Knicks are a level below Chicago. If their offense isn't on then they'll struggle against a great defensive team like the Bulls. Both teams are below Miami but ironically the Knicks matchup better with Miami but I believe Chicago matches up better wit NY. And Miami with Chicago.

LMAO at this "whos going to stop rose"nonsense. You do realize that he sucked in indiana and atlanta series only to be bailed out by the refs. Rose is the easiest among the superstars to stop thats why hes overrated while we have 2 of the most unstoppable superstars in the league. And thats the reason why no team has won with a score first pg because they are the easiest to stop players. And regarding defense, looks like you forgot how amare stopped the bulls during christmas. Sorry but defense is more about effort, its just that our players are lazy. So relax coz when these guys are motivated, Bulls will lose in 5.

[97 bulls]

LMAO at this "whos going to stop rose"nonsense. You do realize that he sucked in indiana and atlanta series only to be bailed out by the refs. Rose is the easiest among the superstars to stop thats why hes overrated while we have 2 of the most unstoppable superstars in the league. And thats the reason why no team has won with a score first pg because they are the easiest to stop players. And regarding defense, looks like you forgot how amare stopped the bulls during christmas. Sorry but defense is more about effort, its just that our players are lazy. So relax coz when these guys are motivated, Bulls will lose in 5.
That was last year bro. And to be honest, the whole team shot relatively bad. They got by on tough hard nosed grit and defense. As well as being more talented than atlanta and indiana.


Miami came with a game plan to stop rose and dare his teammates to hit open shots and make the right decisions on who to pass to while the heat rotated from the rose double team. The heat got away with this cuz of the bulls youth and inexperience. I'm positive that if they played that exact same bulls team but a few years older, they wouldn't be able to get away with that philosophy.

[HurricaneKid]

Unless BDiddy finds the fountain of youth the NYK aren't even close to Mia or Chicago. In fact, if NJ gets D12 I still don't think the Knicks are top 4 in the East, absent a complete reg season flop by Bos. Of course, Baron is playing with something on the line for the first time in a long time and he could put it together.

[Lebron23]

that's what i thought last year until i started watching more bulls games


Did you watched the Eastern Conference Finals? It's easier to defend Rose in the playoffs because the guy is an inconsistent jump shooter, and Heat were able to shut him down in the 4th quarter.

[Joey Zaza]

Its a cop-out but I think this season is gonna be nuts and we will not know anything until the last game is played.

My frame of reference is the '99 season. NYK got off to a rough start -integrated a bunch of new pieces - and fought to the 8th seed. Msg boards at the time were probably flooded with "Heat >>>>>KNicks" threads. As we all know, those Knicks made the finals. If there had been 32 more games, the Knicks would've evened out and found their way to a 3/4 seed, and there would've been more "NYK are DANGEROUS" threads.

So, for now, without a game to judge or a win to ananlyze from any team, I'll go with Heat>Bulls>Knicks>Indy based on last season and let this season play itself out.

[Lebron23]

LMAO at the Knicks beating the Bulls and Heat in the playoffs. These team needs to play some defense. When was the last time that a very poor defensive team won the NBA championship?

2010-2011 New York Knicks

Opp PTS/G: 105.7 (28th of 30)

Def Rtg: 110.1 (22nd of 30)

[Joey Zaza]

LMAO at the Knicks beating the Bulls and Heat in the playoffs. These team needs to play some defense. When was the last time that a very poor defensive team won the NBA championship?

2010-2011 New York Knicks

Opp PTS/G: 105.7 (28th of 30)

Def Rtg: 110.1 (22nd of 30)

You do know that the NYL have made specific moves to try to imporve their D.

Also, Opp PPG is a bit misleading (not to imply that the NYK played great D). You can limit opp ppg pretty substanitally by dribbling the air out of the ball and limiting possessions (what MVp PG dribbles the air out of the ball....hmmm). Fewer possessions, fewer points, more people OMG BEST DEFENSE EVER!!!

[knickscity]

LMAO at the Knicks beating the Bulls and Heat in the playoffs. These team needs to play some defense. When was the last time that a very poor defensive team won the NBA championship?

2010-2011 New York Knicks

Opp PTS/G: 105.7 (28th of 30)

Def Rtg: 110.1 (22nd of 30)

Come on guy, let the games get played first.

If we are just basing things on last season let all of it come out.

LeBron will bow out when the game matters the most. He can't win on the biggest stage.

He defers to much.

No post game.

Shaky jumper.

Not clutch.

But enough with that, to me though, let the games get played.

Do I personally believe the Knicks can beat the Heat or Bulls?

I don't know because they haven't been in position to have that chance.

[fubu05]

LMAO at the Knicks beating the Bulls and Heat in the playoffs. These team needs to play some defense. When was the last time that a very poor defensive team won the NBA championship?

2010-2011 New York Knicks

Opp PTS/G: 105.7 (28th of 30)

Def Rtg: 110.1 (22nd of 30)

Does this retard not understand they brought in Mike Woodson and Tyson Chandler to try and get better defensively? Why are you using last years stats when we're talking about how they've improved with the additions they've made you ****ing goof. We know they're going to get better defensively, but by how much... thats something we won't know until a couple months into the season. :hammerhead:

[Lebron23]

Does this retard not understand they brought in Mike Woodson and Tyson Chandler to try and get better defensively? Why are you using last years stats when we're talking about how they've improved with the additions they've made you ****ing goof. We know they're going to get better defensively, but by how much... thats something we won't know until a couple months into the season. :hammerhead:

Shut up @$$wipe!!!

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/7507/dantoni-woodson-isnt-a-defensive-coach


D'Antoni: Woodson isn't a defensive coach

Mike D'Antoni hated the word defense. You guys needs to have a coach that's committed on playing tough defense. D'Antoni is still calling the shots in NY.

[DMV2]

Shut up @$$wipe!!!

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/7507/dantoni-woodson-isnt-a-defensive-coach


D'Antoni: Woodson isn't a defensive coach

Mike D'Antoni hated the word defense. You guys needs to have a coach that's committed on playing tough defense. D'Antoni is still calling the shots in NY.
Did you even read the article? :oldlol: D'Antoni is basically saying there's no such thing as defensive coach in basketball, and he's right. They're assistant coaches. There's no special labeling like defensive coordinator like there is i football.

Thibideou was an assistant in Boston but everybody knew he was defensive minded and ran the Celtics defensive scheme.

[fubu05]

Shut up @$$wipe!!!

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/7507/dantoni-woodson-isnt-a-defensive-coach


D'Antoni: Woodson isn't a defensive coach

Mike D'Antoni hated the word defense. You guys needs to have a coach that's committed on playing tough defense. D'Antoni is still calling the shots in NY.

Hey dumbass that same article goes on to later explain that while D'Antoni doesn't want Woodson to be referred to as a "defensive coach", Woodson is the one who seems to be preaching defense to the Knicks while D'Antoni sometimes sits on the sidelines and just lets Woodson take over. ****ing goof. Gtfo.

[QUOTE]That may be true. But so far, Woodson has played the part of defensive coordinator for the Knicks.

On the court and in the film room during training camp, Woodson talks to players about defense; D'Antoni sticks to offense.

"I can't step on his toes too much," D

[Lebron23]

Hey dumbass that same article goes on to later explain that while D'Antoni doesn't want Woodson to be referred to as a "defensive coach", Woodson is the one who seems to be preaching defense to the Knicks while D'Antoni sometimes sits on the sidelines and just lets Woodson take over. ****ing goof. Gtfo.


Let see about that. You stupid son of a B1tch. Mike Woodson's Hawks were decent defensively, But the Heat with a much better offensive game this year would still kick that @$$ in the playoffs.

PS:

Your such a homo loving ***** ass bitch. Pacers are better than the Knicks.

[kurple]

Rose is obviously better then Davis.

However a healthy B.Diddy is a better Leader/Passer/PlayMaker then Rose is right now.

Davis was dropping 7-8 dimes per game for what like 10-12+ seasons?
Then why did the clippers give up their pick that ended up being the number one overall just to dump his ass?

[fubu05]

Let see about that. You stupid son of a B1tch. Mike Woodson's Hawks were decent defensively, But the Heat with a much better offensive game this year would still kick that @$$ in the playoffs.

PS:

Your such a homo loving ***** ass bitch. Pacers are better than the Knicks.

You're actually retarded. You just went from trying to use last years stats as if they will be the exact same this year to prove your point that the Knicks can't play D.



LMAO at the Knicks beating the Bulls and Heat in the playoffs. These team needs to play some defense. When was the last time that a very poor defensive team won the NBA championship?

2010-2011 New York Knicks

Opp PTS/G: 105.7 (28th of 30)

Def Rtg: 110.1 (22nd of 30)

Then I went on to tell you that you are once again retarded and the Knicks did bring in Mike Woodson and Tyson Chandler to improve their defense. You then went on to quote some article claiming it says "Woodson isn't a defensive coach"


Shut up @$$wipe!!!

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/7507/dantoni-woodson-isnt-a-defensive-coach


D'Antoni: Woodson isn't a defensive coach

Mike D'Antoni hated the word defense. You guys needs to have a coach that's committed on playing tough defense. D'Antoni is still calling the shots in NY.

Now if you actually read that article, you realize all D'Antoni said is he doesn't like labelling coaches as "defensive coaches" or "offensive coaches"

The article also says that often times during practice, D'antoni takes a backseat to Mike Woodson and Woodson preaches defense to the team. Once gain, you are retarded.

And now you say that yeah actually Woodson is a decent defensive coach, but still the heats zomg super awezomesors offense will destroyzors the Knicks.

Please take in what you just did and re-evaluate yourself and see if you are legally retarded and if you can receive compensation from your government.

[Nickel06]

Let see about that. You stupid son of a B1tch. Mike Woodson's Hawks were decent defensively, But the Heat with a much better offensive game this year would still kick that @$$ in the playoffs.

PS:

Your such a homo loving ***** ass bitch. Pacers are better than the Knicks.

Hmmm why am I not surprised by this stuff!!! Typical frontrunner Miami fan, Get backed into a corner, and start name callin and spittin n sputterin... yea reeeeal classy dude!!! Way to be!!:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Lebron23]

You're actually retarded. You just went from trying to use last years stats as if they will be the exact same this year to prove your point that the Knicks can't play D.




Then I went on to tell you that you are once again retarded and the Knicks did bring in Mike Woodson and Tyson Chandler to improve their defense. You then went on to quote some article claiming it says "Woodson isn't a defensive coach"



Now if you actually read that article, you realize all D'Antoni said is he doesn't like labelling coaches as "defensive coaches" or "offensive coaches"

The article also says that often times during practice, D'antoni takes a backseat to Mike Woodson and Woodson preaches defense to the team. Once gain, you are retarded.

And now you say that yeah actually Woodson is a decent defensive coach, but still the heats zomg super awezomesors offense will destroyzors the Knicks.

Please take in what you just did and re-evaluate yourself and see if you are legally retarded and if you can receive compensation from your government.

You don't have any basketball IQ. Go outside and eat your dog's poop. When was the last time a D'Antoni team was committed on playing defense? The D'Antoni Suns had Prime Marion on their team, but the Suns didn't improved their defense.

Just the $hut the F*ck up. You fat piece of $hit.

[Lebron23]

Hmmm why am I not surprised by this stuff!!! Typical frontrunner Miami fan, Get backed into a corner, and start name callin and spittin n sputterin... yea reeeeal classy dude!!! Way to be!!:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm


The Little bastard started the name calling. . The guy is probably the worst poster in this forum, and a LeBron/Heat hater since he registered in this forum.

PS:

Pacers are gonna F*ck the Knicks in the playoffs

[Nickel06]

The Little bastard started the name calling. Pacers are gonna F*ck the Knicks in the playoffs.

Yea and Im gonna be the next president of the United States...In the words of aerosmith, DREAM ON!!!!:rockon: :rockon:

[Lebron23]

Yea and Im gonna be the next president of the United States...In the words of aerosmith, DREAM ON!!!!:rockon: :rockon:


You are going to suffer a major heart attack in the 2012 NBA Playoffs when the Pacers eliminates the Knicks in the post season. Please stop overrating the Knicks. They are not even a top 3 team in the East. They also have a worst bench than the Bulls and Heat.

[ConanRulesNBC]

Bulls have so much depth. I think the Bulls will still be > the Knicks this season. As good as the Knicks look I'm not worried about any team coached by Mike D'Antoni. The only real positions the Knicks are better at than the Bulls are PF and SF because Melo and Amar'e > Deng and Boozer. But the Bulls are better or equal to the Knicks at every other position and the Bulls bench > the Knicks bench.

[Nickel06]

You are going to suffer a major heart attack in the 2012 NBA Playoffs when the Pacers eliminates the Knicks in the post season. Please stop overrating the Knicks. They are not even a top 3 team in the East. They also have a worst bench than the Bulls and Heat.

Ok um do tell who the hell is above them???? I will give you the bulls, and the heat, I think they can compete with both of them. Anybody else, and i want whatever you are on!!!

[CardiacKemba]

Is everyone forgetting that the Knicks are still going to be terrible on Defense? Chandler himself won't rectify the situation. The Bulls and Heat are elite defensive teams, and both will be able to slow the offensive onslaught of Melo and Stat.

[Hank]

Bulls have so much depth. I think the Bulls will still be > the Knicks this season. As good as the Knicks look I'm not worried about any team coached by Mike D'Antoni. The only real positions the Knicks are better at than the Bulls are PF and SF because Melo and Amar'e > Deng and Boozer. But the Bulls are better or equal to the Knicks at every other position and the Bulls bench > the Knicks bench.

are bulls fans still coming with that nonsense ? lol

FYI, and for the thousandth time, benches are greatly shortened in the playoffs. There's a lot of days between playoff games. A bench isn't as important in the playoffs unless you have some significant injuries to overcome.

your bench did jack against Miami in the playoffs.. and all we heard from bullshit bulls fans was how your bench was going to be this great game-changing dynamic and turning point in a series between the 2 teams.

It just "seems" you have depth anyway. That's because your starters aren't that good (Boozer is garbage and 99% of Bulls fans wanted Taj Gibson to start ahead of him, and Haslem >> Gibson, and of course Noah sitting his ass on the bench in the 4th quarters against the Heat because he's overrated as well)

:oldlol:

[Nickel06]

Is everyone forgetting that the Knicks are still going to be terrible on Defense? Chandler himself won't rectify the situation. The Bulls and Heat are elite defensive teams, and both will be able to slow the offensive onslaught of Melo and Stat.

Yes one player es not fix everything!! But whos to say Stoudemire, and more importantly Melo dont improve defensively??? Yes I know its a stretch and a ton to ask, but really until games are actually played how do we know bout any of this??? I mean with shortened season, and no camps, I really dont have any expectations, leaguewide. You could see some pretty crazy stuff this year. At this point, its all speculation anyway. I just cant wait for games!!!!

[Lebron23]

Ok um do tell who the hell is above them???? I will give you the bulls, and the heat, I think they can compete with both of them. Anybody else, and i want whatever you are on!!!

Indiana Pacers

Look at Pacers' starting 5 and their bench

C- Roy Hibbert
F- David West
F- Danny Granger
SG- Paul George
PG- Darrel Collison

Bench Scoring

G- George Hill
F - Tyler Hansbrough. He had some good games againts Matador defender Carlos Boozer in the playoffs.

[Nickel06]

Indiana Pacers

Look at Pacers' starting 5 and their bench

C- Roy Hibbert
F- David West
F- Danny Granger
SG- Paul George
PG- Darrel Collison

Bench Scoring

G- George Hill
F - Tyler Hansbrough. He had some good games againts Matador defender Carlos Boozer in the playoffs.


Ok

Chandler over Hibbert
Stoudemire over West( plus West coming off ACL)
Melo over Granger(Close though)
George over Fields
Collison over Davis(also close)

Shump, TD over Hill
Hansborough over Novak, Jefrries, Harrellson etc

Pretty even to me, even though me personally I think Indy would get wrecked by the Knicks. They have nobody to stop Stoudemire, and watchin the games last year, Hibbert wore down very quick.

[icewill36]

its going to take the knicks the entire season to build good chemistry

[305Baller]

Have the Knicks improved enough to pass the Bulls and face Heat in ECF?

Yes, they need a PG to torture Rose and a SG that can take the pressure off Melo and Amare but other than that the frontcourt looks ideal.

[Lebron23]

Is everyone forgetting that the Knicks are still going to be terrible on Defense? Chandler himself won't rectify the situation. The Bulls and Heat are elite defensive teams, and both will be able to slow the offensive onslaught of Melo and Stat.

But they have Mike Woodson. Amare and Melo needs to prove that they are capable of becoming an above average defenders at their respective positions. It's very rare for a 9th and 10th year NBA veterans to change their defensive mentality.

Here's my example.

The Bulls' Carlos Boozer has not shown any improvement on his defense despite playing with the best defensive coach, and the best defensive team last season. These players like Boozer, Melo and Amare doesn't have the skills, talent, consistency, dedication, defensive IQ, and the motivation to become a solid defender in the NBA.

Here's a good post from Melo's number one fan Archibundo a couple of months ago.



i'm the biggest carmelo fan. his defense is bipolar, characterized by transient, short-lived bursts of motivation, which usually occur when he has a bone to prove against another premier swingman

when he shows up to play, I'd say he is slightly above average. excellent ball denial. adept at stripping the ball. ventures too far out to the perimeter to guard perimeter players, and sometimes settles for putting his hand in front of their face rather than contesting the shot (at least for kobe), but at least the effort and awareness are there.

when he doesn't look to play defense, which is 80% of the time and it is painstakingly obvious, dude is terrible. he will NOT fight through screens. he is lost as far as rotations. will get drawn into the paint and leave shooters wide open. doesn't lift his hands on closeout. not very good at playing defense without fouling when in foul trouble. I want to say dumb.

so, overall, he is a below average defender. thank goodness he turns it on for the postseason.. but the regular season matters, too.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=210112

[97 bulls]

are bulls fans still coming with that nonsense ? lol

FYI, and for the thousandth time, benches are greatly shortened in the playoffs. There's a lot of days between playoff games. A bench isn't as important in the playoffs unless you have some significant injuries to overcome.

your bench did jack against Miami in the playoffs.. and all we heard from bullshit bulls fans was how your bench was going to be this great game-changing dynamic and turning point in a series between the 2 teams.

It just "seems" you have depth anyway. That's because your starters aren't that good (Boozer is garbage and 99% of Bulls fans wanted Taj Gibson to start ahead of him, and Haslem >> Gibson, and of course Noah sitting his ass on the bench in the 4th quarters against the Heat because he's overrated as well)

:oldlol:
Oh come off this nonsense. Haslem is not better than gibson. In fact, id take gibson over haslem. They both are one in the same but gibson is a better shot blocker. Neither has a post game, and they're both able to hit the mid range jumper.

The heat aren't more talented than the bulls they just have more experience. And that's gonna change in a year or two.

I trying to wonder why you ran from that bosh/boozer debate? I guess that's your MO. To run when the going gets tough like two of the players on your team.

[airchibundo507]

Indiana Pacers

Look at Pacers' starting 5 and their bench

C- Roy Hibbert
F- David West
F- Danny Granger
SG- Paul George
PG- Darrel Collison

Bench Scoring

G- George Hill
F - Tyler Hansbrough. He had some good games againts Matador defender Carlos Boozer in the playoffs.

That team would be scary if they had a point guard. But Collison is average and his 13 ppg and 5 apg are underwhelming. Hibbert/West/Granger are 2nd/3rd option scorers on a championship team imo. That kind of build for a team doesn't work unless they have ELITE defense.

[allabouthawks]

they hav definatly inproved by adding amare camelo and chandler but i dont think they will get past miami and even mayb the bulls cant say until a few games how much diffrence chandler makes to the defence

[airchibundo507]

But they have Mike Woodson. Amare and Melo needs to prove that they are capable of becoming an above average defenders at their respective positions. It's very rare for a 9th and 10th year NBA veterans to change their defensive mentality.

Here's my example.

The Bulls' Carlos Boozer has not shown any improvement on his defense despite playing with the best defensive coach, and the best defensive team last season. These players like Boozer, Melo and Amare doesn't have the skills, talent, consistency, dedication, defensive IQ, and the motivation to become a solid defender in the NBA.

Here's a good post from Melo's number one fan Archibundo a couple of months ago.




http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=210112

i've never been used as a reference before. it feels legit.

but forreal Melo has improved his defense since that post.

[themurph]

are bulls fans still coming with that nonsense ? lol

FYI, and for the thousandth time, benches are greatly shortened in the playoffs. There's a lot of days between playoff games. A bench isn't as important in the playoffs unless you have some significant injuries to overcome.

your bench did jack against Miami in the playoffs.. and all we heard from bullshit bulls fans was how your bench was going to be this great game-changing dynamic and turning point in a series between the 2 teams.

It just "seems" you have depth anyway. That's because your starters aren't that good (Boozer is garbage and 99% of Bulls fans wanted Taj Gibson to start ahead of him, and Haslem >> Gibson, and of course Noah sitting his ass on the bench in the 4th quarters against the Heat because he's overrated as well)

:oldlol:

I think you were on your way to making an interesting point, but you let your own bias voice take over...

Indeed, playoff teams shorten their rotations...But only by so much...It's not about being able to swap out an entire bench line-up for a team or having a deep squad...It's about getting great bench play from key players/player...In other words, as good as Dirk and Terry were for the Mavs they would not have gone deep into the playoffs without the likes of a AJ Barea....Same for OKC (Serge); same for Memphis (their bench was loaded and played a huge role in beating the Spurs)...

And the same could be said of the Bulls. Remember, the Bulls playoff starters at the 4 and 5 were fighting injuries during the regular season and the playoffs...That's why their bench became imperative...if you want to talk about Bogans sucking, you have a point...But I will wait to see our starting BIGS for a full season healthy (and playing together) to make an intelligent judgement.....

Bottom line: the Bulls ability to add depth at the 4 and the 5 (Asik and Gibson) will have a HUGE IMPACT in the playoffs...

And again, chill with the hyperbole...The Bulls bench kept Chicago in most of those games against Miami...Unfortunately, the Bulls issue with Miami had a lot more to do with a lack of a creative second option on the offensive end than bench play...Simply put, the Bulls lost because it became 2 on 1 offensively: Bron/Wade vs. Rose...Bosh will get his because of his style of play and working off of double teams...But Rose being the only player who can truly get his own shot off whenever he wants to is the problem...


Will Rip be the answer? Scoring wise, yes...But creative playmaking beyond Rose? No...

But of course all this^^^has nothing to do with what u r trying to sell...

[knicksman]

But they have Mike Woodson. Amare and Melo needs to prove that they are capable of becoming an above average defenders at their respective positions. It's very rare for a 9th and 10th year NBA veterans to change their defensive mentality.

Here's my example.

The Bulls' Carlos Boozer has not shown any improvement on his defense despite playing with the best defensive coach, and the best defensive team last season. These players like Boozer, Melo and Amare doesn't have the skills, talent, consistency, dedication, defensive IQ, and the motivation to become a solid defender in the NBA.

Here's a good post from Melo's number one fan Archibundo a couple of months ago.




http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=210112

That just proves that defense is just effort rather than skill. Which means everybody can play it. And if you think its rare for a player to play defense on its 9th year. Well pierce, allen, dirk says hi. It didnt stopped them from winning a chip. Do you know whats rare? Players who cant shoot and unclutch will always never learn to shoot. Wade was lucky to be gifted those fts in 2006 or else he wont have any ring yet. If i have to choose who to build. Id rather build on allen, pierce than lebron/wade. Thats why they got the chip despite being not considered superstars. Wade/lebron posess all skills that appear on the statsheet that make them overrated but they dont possess the important skills for a scorer in order to win. And those skills are the ability to shoot anywhere on the court and play off the ball. So better hope theyre winning coz I dont see them winning. Playmaking, defense are just a plus but they are not what I look for my scorer.

[Lebron23]

That just proves that defense is just effort rather than skill. Which means everybody can play it. And if you think its rare for a player to play defense on its 9th year. Well pierce, allen, dirk says hi. It didnt stopped them from winning a chip. Do you know whats rare? Players who cant shoot and unclutch will always never learn to shoot. Wade was lucky to be gifted those fts in 2006 or else he wont have any ring yet. If i have to choose who to build. Id rather build on allen, pierce than lebron/wade. Thats why they got the chip despite being not considered superstars. Wade/lebron posess all skills that appear on the statsheet that make them overrated but they dont possess the important skills for a scorer in order to win. And those skills are the ability to shoot anywhere on the court and play off the ball. So better hope theyre winning coz I dont see them winning. Playmaking, defense are just a plus but they are not what I look for my scorer.

LeBron was actually clutch againts the Bulls and Celtics. He just had a meltdown in the NBA Finals. LeBron never puts up some quality numbers againts Dallas in his NBA Career. Bron is actually a good midrange shooter. He has a much better form this season. See the Heat scrimmage and first pre season game againts Orlando.

[ConanRulesNBC]

are bulls fans still coming with that nonsense ? lol :oldlol:

Watson, Brewer, Korver, Taj Gibson, Omer Asik, Brian Scalabrine? Uh... that's a pretty stacked bench. Where's the "nonsense" at? Who do the Knicks have? Tony Douglas? :oldlol:

[Lebron23]

i've never been used as a reference before. it feels legit.

but forreal Melo has improved his defense since that post.


Knicks needs to fire Mike D'Antonio. A Mike D'Antoni lead team would never make it into the NBA Finals.

[Heavincent]

are bulls fans still coming with that nonsense ? lol

FYI, and for the thousandth time, benches are greatly shortened in the playoffs. There's a lot of days between playoff games. A bench isn't as important in the playoffs unless you have some significant injuries to overcome.

your bench did jack against Miami in the playoffs.. and all we heard from bullshit bulls fans was how your bench was going to be this great game-changing dynamic and turning point in a series between the 2 teams.

It just "seems" you have depth anyway. That's because your starters aren't that good (Boozer is garbage and 99% of Bulls fans wanted Taj Gibson to start ahead of him, and Haslem >> Gibson, and of course Noah sitting his ass on the bench in the 4th quarters against the Heat because he's overrated as well)

:oldlol:

You're such a bandwagon little bitch. So again, what happened in the 2011 Finals?

[airchibundo507]

Knicks needs to fire Mike D'Antonio. A Mike D'Antoni lead team would never make it into the NBA Finals.

Most agree with you. But adding Chandler, Shumpert and defensive assistant coach Woodson should improve our defense substantially. I honestly think we'll be an average defensive team this season.

[Cali Syndicate]

Chandler is hands down a major improvement over Turiaf and they are definitely better...however, not sure if it's enough to beat the Heat in a 7 game series.

They should be able to compete against the Bulls though.

[knicksman]

Watson, Brewer, Korver, Taj Gibson, Omer Asik, Brian Scalabrine? Uh... that's a pretty stacked bench. Where's the "nonsense" at? Who do the Knicks have? Tony Douglas? :oldlol:

LOL your bench are overrated because they are winning. I remember suns have the best bench but once they lost amare, their bench sucked. The same would happen with ny if they will start winning

[Nickel06]

Most agree with you. But adding Chandler, Shumpert and defensive assistant coach Woodson should improve our defense substantially. I honestly think we'll be an average defensive team this season.

Thank you for making my point. All they need to be is average, offense will take care of the rest. I mean cmon, yea Dallas beat the heat with defense, but are we really confusing the dallas D with teams like the russell celtics or the spurs of the recent past or the 04 pistons???

[97 bulls]

I think you were on your way to making an interesting point, but you let your own bias voice take over...

Indeed, playoff teams shorten their rotations...But only by so much...It's not about being able to swap out an entire bench line-up for a team or having a deep squad...It's about getting great bench play from key players/player...In other words, as good as Dirk and Terry were for the Mavs they would not have gone deep into the playoffs without the likes of a AJ Barea....Same for OKC (Serge); same for Memphis (their bench was loaded and played a huge role in beating the Spurs)...

And the same could be said of the Bulls. Remember, the Bulls playoff starters at the 4 and 5 were fighting injuries during the regular season and the playoffs...That's why their bench became imperative...if you want to talk about Bogans sucking, you have a point...But I will wait to see our starting BIGS for a full season healthy (and playing together) to make an intelligent judgement.....

Bottom line: the Bulls ability to add depth at the 4 and the 5 (Asik and Gibson) will have a HUGE IMPACT in the playoffs...

And again, chill with the hyperbole...The Bulls bench kept Chicago in most of those games against Miami...Unfortunately, the Bulls issue with Miami had a lot more to do with a lack of a creative second option on the offensive end than bench play...Simply put, the Bulls lost because it became 2 on 1 offensively: Bron/Wade vs. Rose...Bosh will get his because of his style of play and working off of double teams...But Rose being the only player who can truly get his own shot off whenever he wants to is the problem...


Will Rip be the answer? Scoring wise, yes...But creative playmaking beyond Rose? No...

But of course all this^^^has nothing to do with what u r trying to sell...
What he's trying to sell is complete and utterly pure bullshit. The bulls don't need a bunch of iso players. They need guys to hit the open shots the heat allowed by the way they decided to play the pick and roll.

There's only one ball. Let's say the bulls did aquire a scorer. Its still gonna be the same concept. Someone is gonna need to hit open shots.

Its why steve kerr and john paxsons role was so instrumental. If korver and hamilton hit a few of those open jumpers, then the heat are gonna have to play rose straight up. And noone on the heat can stay in front of him.

Remember, what the heat did to rose was a team effort. Aside from that game three when james shut rose down and the end of the game. But for the most part, they had their whole teaam shadowing rose.

[knicksman]

LeBron was actually clutch againts the Bulls and Celtics. He just had a meltdown in the NBA Finals. LeBron never puts up some quality numbers againts Dallas in his NBA Career. Bron is actually a good midrange shooter. He has a much better form this season. See the Heat scrimmage and first pre season game againts Orlando.

Yah on a struggling boston team. Lebron struggles on a team with a big man. Theyre just lucky that they faced boston(without perk), bulls(weak frontcourt)because of boozer.

[Lebron23]

Yah on a struggling boston team. Lebron struggles on a team with a big man. Theyre just lucky that they faced boston(without perk), bulls(weak frontcourt)because of boozer.


Same Boston Team that swept the Knicks in the first round.

[longtime lurker]

Is D'Antoni still their coach? That will answer all your questions.

[knicksman]

Same Boston Team that swept the Knicks in the first round.

its ok. this season will be the start. And thats the only chance miami could win coz based on lineup, I rather have knicks than heat this season. Sorry heat but the 7 championships aint happening. We got chandler the lebron killer. And we have a frontcourt that is built like a brick wall. I dont see lebron penetrating on us. And so he will be shooting bricks again.:lol Oh btw, even amare could anchor the defense when they limited heats ppg to below 90 the last 2 games. How much more that we have chandler right now. Keep comforting yourself about defense coz you know deep inside, defense is the easiest aspect of this game and theres no reason why amare and melo cant play it.

[knicksman]

Is D'Antoni still their coach? That will answer all your questions.


oh really?

offense wins games but defense wins championships
talent wins games but teamwork wins championships

Does that mean that you only need teamwork to win championships and you dont need talent? I think only detroit has won without a superstar. Those quotes mean that offense and talent are still the foundation of building a team not defense. Or else we should be building around mutombo instead of dirk. And once you have the offense in place, you now incorporate the defensive players like chandler to go along with dirk. It doesnt mean that you have to abandon your offense and replace it with defense but to add defense on your offense. And it means that teamwork is easier to acquire than talent. You can always force the talent to play as a team but you can never force a team player to become a superstar. The same with defense, you can always motivate amare/ melo to play defense but you can never force iguodala to become a 25 ppg scorer.

Building through defense is like a building without a good foundation. Its useless. Just like teams built on defense like sixers, new orleans, orlando, houston. Houston built its team through defense and they were only good for 1 or 2 season because injuries happened due to playing defense. Whereas teams like dallas, suns were good for 5+ seasons because they built their team through offense. Only teams with good offense and defense wins in this league. Teams with defense only are on the same footing with teams with offense only but offensive teams are going to last longer in this league than defensive teams. So relax coz were on the right track while bulls were on the wrong track. They will fail next season just like the bucks last season. Remember bulls never had a contending team since jordan despite being gifted for how many picks. They still have the same FO and their FO still has no idea how to build a team. While knicks already changed their FO and now on the right track.

[VishaltotheG]

Rose >>>> Davis
Hamilton = Fields
Deng <<< Melo
Boozer < Amare
Noah = Chandler

Bulls bench >>>>>> Knicks Bench
Bulls coach >>>>>> Knicks coach

Sorry guys we are still better than you Knick fans

[dee-rose]

Rose >>>> Davis
Hamilton = Fields
Deng <<< Melo
Boozer < Amare
Noah = Chandler

Bulls bench >>>>>> Knicks Bench
Bulls coach >>>>>> Knicks coach

Sorry guys we are still better than you Knick fans
Noah is better than Chandler

[Sarcastic]

Rose >>>> Davis
Hamilton = Fields
Deng <<< Melo
Boozer < Amare
Noah = Chandler

Bulls bench >>>>>> Knicks Bench
Bulls coach >>>>>> Knicks coach

Sorry guys we are still better than you Knick fans

Because this is how games are decided.

[airchibundo507]

It's more like:

Shumpert guards Rose as well as Deng guards Melo. Amare abuses Boozer, so Noah has to cover Amare, thus drawing Noah out of the paint and allowing Melo more space to score down low. Chandler shadowing Shumpert's D holds Rose to 40% shooting or below, and when other Bulls are expected to carry the offensive load, they forget to show.

It'll be close, though.

[sixer6ad]

None of this matters. 99.9% of the NBA fans just want one of them to be good enough to beat the Heat. I honestly feel it's going to be Chicago's year to get to the Finals. The Heat HAVE to win it at some point, but sweetness would be having them to wait yet another year to do it.

[sixer6ad]

Another point: D'Antoni is afraid to win a big game. That's going to be a hurdle for the Knicks.

[airchibundo507]

Another point: D'Antoni is afraid to win a big game. That's going to be a hurdle for the Knicks.

D'Antoni has never had a big man who protects the basket well. It's not easy to play defense with the personnel he had in Phoenix.

[longtime lurker]

oh really?

offense wins games but defense wins championships
talent wins games but teamwork wins championships

Does that mean that you only need teamwork to win championships and you dont need talent? I think only detroit has won without a superstar. Those quotes mean that offense and talent are still the foundation of building a team not defense. Or else we should be building around mutombo instead of dirk. And once you have the offense in place, you now incorporate the defensive players like chandler to go along with dirk. It doesnt mean that you have to abandon your offense and replace it with defense but to add defense on your offense. And it means that teamwork is easier to acquire than talent. You can always force the talent to play as a team but you can never force a team player to become a superstar. The same with defense, you can always motivate amare/ melo to play defense but you can never force iguodala to become a 25 ppg scorer.

Building through defense is like a building without a good foundation. Its useless. Just like teams built on defense like sixers, new orleans, orlando, houston. Houston built its team through defense and they were only good for 1 or 2 season because injuries happened due to playing defense. Whereas teams like dallas, suns were good for 5+ seasons because they built their team through offense. Only teams with good offense and defense wins in this league. Teams with defense only are on the same footing with teams with offense only but offensive teams are going to last longer in this league than defensive teams. So relax coz were on the right track while bulls were on the wrong track. They will fail next season just like the bucks last season. Remember bulls never had a contending team since jordan despite being gifted for how many picks. They still have the same FO and their FO still has no idea how to build a team. While knicks already changed their FO and now on the right track.

:lol is this post supposed to be serious? Bulls will fail next season like the Bucks? I'm sorry did Derrick Rose die? Building through defense is like building without a foundation :oldlol: Knicks are good this year, but it's D'Antoni holding them back from being a serious title contender. How is that Phoenix still reached the WCF two years ago despite being older and not having D'Antoni to coach? A little thing called defense. Offense comes and goes, but as long as you play D you give yourself a chance to win

[longtime lurker]

D'Antoni has never had a big man who protects the basket well. It's not easy to play defense with the personnel he had in Phoenix.

Yet Alvin Gentry achieved similar results with a worse supporting cast :confusedshrug:

[airchibundo507]

Yet Alvin Gentry achieved similar results with a worse supporting cast :confusedshrug:
a WCF appearance? D'Antoni and company would have likely reached that plateau if Amare hadn't been suspended for coming off the bench in a postseason scuffle.

[longtime lurker]

a WCF appearance? D'Antoni and company would have likely reached that plateau if Amare hadn't been suspended for coming off the bench in a postseason scuffle.

Could have should have whatever. The fact remains that even without D'Antoni and with a commitment to defense the Suns achieved the same results.

[dee-rose]

It's more like:

Shumpert guards Rose as well as Deng guards Melo. Amare abuses Boozer, so Noah has to cover Amare, thus drawing Noah out of the paint and allowing Melo more space to score down low. Chandler shadowing Shumpert's D holds Rose to 40% shooting or below, and when other Bulls are expected to carry the offensive load, they forget to show.

It'll be close, though.
Defense depends a lot more on the system than anything else, and Rose isn't going to shoot below 40 percent against Mike's system. Aside from that, why would you expect a rookie to be able to guard Rose, no matter how great he's projected to be? He's still outside of lotto and unproven. Not to mention Davis will be playing a lot more than Shumpert will.

[themurph]

What he's trying to sell is complete and utterly pure bullshit. The bulls don't need a bunch of iso players. They need guys to hit the open shots the heat allowed by the way they decided to play the pick and roll.

There's only one ball. Let's say the bulls did aquire a scorer. Its still gonna be the same concept. Someone is gonna need to hit open shots.

Its why steve kerr and john paxsons role was so instrumental. If korver and hamilton hit a few of those open jumpers, then the heat are gonna have to play rose straight up. And noone on the heat can stay in front of him.

Remember, what the heat did to rose was a team effort. Aside from that game three when james shut rose down and the end of the game. But for the most part, they had their whole teaam shadowing rose.

Actually it's more about creative scoring than hitting open jumpers...

Having the Kerr's or Paxson's of the world only works when you have two guys who can make an offensive play at will (Jordan and Pippen)...

As a Bulls fan I like the Rip move..I like what he brings...He will help the Bulls go deep into the playoffs and most likely get to another ECF series...And he will make teams pay for doubling Rose...

But I think the verdict is still out on if Rip can be that second consistent CREATIVE scorer/playmaker against the Heat in the playoffs......Every team has two to three guys that can create their own shot whenever they want to...I'm not talking about shooting...I'm talking about being Duncan's Ginobli/Parker...Being Durant's Westbrook, or being Wade's Lebron (or vice versa)....Indeed, Rip will make double teams pay...But can he be counted on to BREAK DOWN A DEFENSE to make a shot when Rose is being doubled by Bron and Wade?

Hopefully, for my Bulls, the answer will be yes. Until then, I'll be praying for a sighting of OJ Mayo playing alongside Rose in the future...

[knicksman]

:lol is this post supposed to be serious? Bulls will fail next season like the Bucks? I'm sorry did Derrick Rose die? Building through defense is like building without a foundation :oldlol: Knicks are good this year, but it's D'Antoni holding them back from being a serious title contender. How is that Phoenix still reached the WCF two years ago despite being older and not having D'Antoni to coach? A little thing called defense. Offense comes and goes, but as long as you play D you give yourself a chance to win

well tell me what defensive team has been good for 5+ seasons. Houston, Sixers, orlando, new orleans. I guess pjax too is an idiot coz he thinks the bulls overachieve just like the bucks overachieve in one season through defense and sucks last season. If you think phil jackson, "the greatest coach ever", then you are a genius my friend. I dont know why you arent coaching right now:lol . Oh btw, gentry made it to the conference finals because he incorporated defense on mikes system. Did you know what happened when suns abandoned their offense and just replaced it with defense through terry porter?Yah they sucked. Thats why you incorporate defense to offense not replace it. Thats what dallas did when they finally incorporated defense on their offense and they finally won. And dantoni too coz our stars are willing to play defense and we have woodson willing to teach them defense. Thinking defense is more important than offense is like building through ben wallace rather than dirk. Thats what the bulls did and they failed.
But of course youre a genius so you better beat pjax 11 rings. And oh btw, its triangle OFFENSE not triangle DEFENSE that made pjax the greatest coach ever.

so I rather be dallas who are successful for 11 seasons and then finally got the chip rather than be sixers, houston who are only good for 2 seasons.

[97 bulls]

It's more like:

Shumpert guards Rose as well as Deng guards Melo. Amare abuses Boozer, so Noah has to cover Amare, thus drawing Noah out of the paint and allowing Melo more space to score down low. Chandler shadowing Shumpert's D holds Rose to 40% shooting or below, and when other Bulls are expected to carry the offensive load, they forget to show.

It'll be close, though.
I like the way you summarized it. I disagree simply because shumpert hasn't touched the floor yet. And you've annointed him all-nba defense status. But at least you see a gamee-plan on how the knicks will beat the bulls.

[kurple]

Yeah, Knicks fans are overrating Shumpert way too much..

He could end up as a solid roleplayer straight away, but they act like its a given.

Already talking of him like he is a lockdown defender

[airchibundo507]

I like the way you summarized it. I disagree simply because shumpert hasn't touched the floor yet. And you've annointed him all-nba defense status. But at least you see a gamee-plan on how the knicks will beat the bulls.

Sorry, I'm a homer. :lol

[airchibundo507]

Yeah, Knicks fans are overrating Shumpert way too much..

He could end up as a solid roleplayer straight away, but they act like its a given.

Already talking of him like he is a lockdown defender

He is. Believe me. 6'6" PG/SG/SF. 6'10" wingspan. 40" vertical. 2.7 steals per game in college. Values defense above everything else.

[Duncan21formvp]

Would love to see this series.

[All Net]

Heat/Bulls are the class of the east and I don't see anybody coming close to them this season.

[D-Wade316]

I think the Bulls and Knicks are equals. The Knicks are better offensively while the Bulls are the better defensively. The Knicks have two superstars who can carry an entire team's offensive load, the Bulls only have one. But the Bulls can somewhat negate the Knicks superiority on offense through defense. I'd find it hard to believe that just by the addition of Chandler, they can stop Rose. That has to come from the coaching staff. I'd also find it hard for the Bulls scoring enough with only Rose capable of creating shots. It's a toss up really.

[millwad]

I think the Bulls and Knicks are equals. The Knicks are better offensively while the Bulls are the better defensively. The Knicks have two superstars who can carry an entire team's offensive load, the Bulls only have one. But the Bulls can somewhat negate the Knicks superiority on offense through defense. I'd find it hard to believe that just by the addition of Chandler, they can stop Rose. That has to come from the coaching staff. I'd also find it hard for the Bulls scoring enough with only Rose capable of creating shots. It's a toss up really.

Yes, Brian Basilio, I agree.

[D-Wade316]

Yes, Brian Basilio, I agree.
Keep trying.

[Chicago Brawls]

I think the Bulls and Knicks are equals. The Knicks are better offensively while the Bulls are the better defensively. The Knicks have two superstars who can carry an entire team's offensive load, the Bulls only have one. But the Bulls can somewhat negate the Knicks superiority on offense through defense. I'd find it hard to believe that just by the addition of Chandler, they can stop Rose. That has to come from the coaching staff. I'd also find it hard for the Bulls scoring enough with only Rose capable of creating shots. It's a toss up really.

You are thinking about the Bulls with Keith Bogans in the starting lineup.

[D-Wade316]

You are thinking about the Bulls with Keith Bogans in the starting lineup.
No. Rip is gonna be a difference maker, but IMO not that much. The Knicks acquired Chandler. :confusedshrug:

[kurple]

He is. Believe me. 6'6" PG/SG/SF. 6'10" wingspan. 40" vertical. 2.7 steals per game in college. Values defense above everything else.
Sounds like he has all the tools to be a very good defender. But there has been a lot of athletic players before

And I still want my perimiter defenders to be able to shoot

But it will be interesting to see how he develops, cause its not like its impossible for him either

[Tlova]

LOL at shumpert getting all dpoy nods and hasn't even played a real game yet.

[2010splash]

The Knicks are on the level of the Magic, Celtics, Pacers etc.

[Tlova]

The Knicks are on the level of the Magic, Celtics, Pacers etc.
:wtf: Bullsh*t much?

[Bigsmoke]

Heat
Bulls
Knicks
Celtics

in that order