I Just Heard Blasphlemy......

[bwink23]

Ok, so i'm talking with this young dude named Kobeconfidence on Youtube. InsideHoops forum name is SlayerEnraged, he just opened this account a little while ago. Now he has stated on record that he thinks Lebron James and Dwayne Wade are both better than His Airness, Michael Jordan. I just would like to know how some of the posters here feel about that assessment. Is he on point, or is he on crack??

[ThatsGame]

He's on crack.

Can't wait to read his posts, I'm bored at work.

[9erEmpire]

on retarded.

It's arguable that Kobe is better than MJ with his skill, individual accolades and rings and leadership.

but....to say Wade and Lebron is just as good....lol

[ThatsGame]

on retarded.

It's arguable that Kobe is better than MJ with his skill, individual accolades and rings and leadership.

but....to say Wade and Lebron is just as good....lol

You definitely put the retarded on in that post.

[alwaysunny]

on retarded.

It's arguable that Kobe is better than MJ with his skill, individual accolades and rings and leadership.

but....to say Wade and Lebron is just as good....lol

:oldlol:

[bwink23]

Here's one of his explanations on why he thinks Jordan would be much worse if playing today:

"ts a complicated process but Mikes perimiter competition is more inferior and in the more competitive playoffs the results showed in his efficiency. He WOULD have shot worse than he did in the regular season. Jordan shot worse in 6/7 of his last playoff appearences thna he did in the regular season and therefore, It's a pretter good inference that Jordan's 42% Fg in the 2000's would have dropped in the playoffs. Whether he was in his prime or not, it dropped in playoffs."

This kid is saying Jordan would have shot worse cuz he shot 42%FG in this era as a WIZARD. WOW

[Deuce Bigalow]

Michael Jordan retired a while ago, move on

[upside24]

Here's one of his explanations on why he thinks Jordan would be much worse if playing today:

"ts a complicated process but Mikes perimiter competition is more inferior and in the more competitive playoffs the results showed in his efficiency. He WOULD have shot worse than he did in the regular season. Jordan shot worse in 6/7 of his last playoff appearences thna he did in the regular season and therefore, It's a pretter good inference that Jordan's 42% Fg in the 2000's would have dropped in the playoffs. Whether he was in his prime or not, it dropped in playoffs."

This kid is saying Jordan would have shot worse cuz he shot 42%FG in this era as a WIZARD. WOW
Wow. Jordan's FG% dropped as he got older.:lol

[9erEmpire]

Here's one of his explanations on why he thinks Jordan would be much worse if playing today:

"ts a complicated process but Mikes perimiter competition is more inferior and in the more competitive playoffs the results showed in his efficiency. He WOULD have shot worse than he did in the regular season. Jordan shot worse in 6/7 of his last playoff appearences thna he did in the regular season and therefore, It's a pretter good inference that Jordan's 42% Fg in the 2000's would have dropped in the playoffs. Whether he was in his prime or not, it dropped in playoffs."

This kid is saying Jordan would have shot worse cuz he shot 42%FG in this era as a WIZARD. WOW

the kid is right.

this is a tougher era and all the greatest perimeter players in history all came around this time.

[9erEmpire]

Michael Jordan retired a while ago, move on

x2

first it was comparing him to Kobe till I debunked and killed any comparison Jordan fans want to bring about Jordan to Kobe.

Now they are taking a step lower to keep MJ relevant and bring up Wade and Lebron.

[bwink23]

the kid is right.

this is a tougher era and all the greatest perimeter players in history all came around this time.


Lebron = 53%FG inside the arc over the last 7 years.
Wade = 51%FG inside the arc over the last 7 years..

You don't think a prime Michael Jordan could match that??

[bwink23]

x2

first it was comparing him to Kobe till I debunked and killed any comparison Jordan fans want to bring about Jordan to Kobe.

Now they are taking a step lower to keep MJ relevant and bring up Wade and Lebron.


You mean with H to H finder, LOL!!! Silly kid... :violin:

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Michael Jordan retired a while ago, move on

This

[Kobr]

Why aren't you posting on 32Dayz anymore, Bry?

http://i.imgur.com/WXmvz.jpg

[bwink23]

Why aren't you posting on 32Dayz anymore, Bry?

http://i.imgur.com/WXmvz.jpg


I have one account....THIS account. Nice try kid.

[Kobr]

I have one account....THIS account. Nice try kid.

Odd.. same wild opinions, same stats regurgitated... 32Dayz disappears, then bwink23 reappears.

[SAKOTXA]

Bwink, MJ is retired now. He is history. He doesn't give a flying **** about you protecting his legacy.

He is the greatest basketball player of all time. Get over it already. You and the rest of your youtube clan.

The fact that you argue with 13 year olds just makes you look borderline retarded.

[bwink23]

Bwink, MJ is retired now. He is history. He doesn't give a flying **** about you protecting his legacy.

He is the greatest basketball player of all time. Get over it already. You and the rest of your youtube clan.

The fact that you argue with 13 year olds just makes you look borderline retarded.


Your right Sak i'll move on....thanks for your encouragement and giving me the strength to continue on with life.....:facepalm

[bwink23]

Odd.. same wild opinions, same stats regurgitated... 32Dayz disappears, then bwink23 reappears.


The Joker avatar can attest that i've been bwink23 for a LONG TIME now. Get over yourself kid, i've never made another account for this shit and never will.

[SAKOTXA]

Your right Sak i'll move on....thanks for your encouragement and giving me the strength to continue on with life.....:facepalm
And you still didn't learn the difference between your and you're.

Doesn't it get tiring arguing about the same topic over and over again? It's like you enjoy feeding the trolls.

[Kobr]

And you still didn't learn the difference between your and you're.

Doesn't it get tiring arguing about the same topic over and over again? It's like you enjoy feeding the trolls.

:oldlol:

He still can't keep himself from making that typo. This 32Dayz person is really strange.

[bwink23]

:oldlol:

He still can't keep himself from making that typo. This 32Dayz person is really strange.


:no:

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://i.imgur.com/WXmvz.jpg

"I'm not bwink23, your an idiot"

[Asukal]

Why aren't you posting on 32Dayz anymore, Bry?

http://i.imgur.com/WXmvz.jpg
That pic is epic! :roll: :roll: :roll:

[devin112]

I have one account....THIS account. Nice try kid.

lol 32dayz had the same comeback, "nice try kid." lol ...hmmm i wonder

[bwink23]

:facepalm ......why on earth would someone who you guys claim posts the SAME SHIT on here make 2 different accounts to do that?? Little common sense now children. :applause:

[BlackJoker23]

Ok, so i'm talking with this young dude named Kobeconfidence on Youtube. InsideHoops forum name is SlayerEnraged, he just opened this account a little while ago. Now he has stated on record that he thinks Lebron James and Dwayne Wade are both better than His Airness, Michael Jordan. I just would like to know how some of the posters here feel about that assessment. Is he on point, or is he on crack??
you already lost by arguing on youtube fakkit. idiot jordan jocker

[bwink23]

:rolleyes:
you already lost by arguing on youtube fakkit. idiot jordan jocker

[cuad]

Why don't you stop trying to talk to little boys, chester?

[305Baller]

Jordan is a better player than both, and its not really close.

Wade and Bron career-wise have dunked with more power than Jordan did for sure and Wade particularly is faster on the baseline attack than Jordan.

Wade blocks shots better than Jordan did overall and Brons defense is probably better than Jordan's.

I have no stats to back any of this up.

[jstern]

the kid is right.

this is a tougher era and all the greatest perimeter players in history all came around this time.

How time flys. We're now at a time where the 2003 era is a vastly inferior era to a teenager. Like just 2 seasons ago when the Lakers won it was probably not too long ago, but the last 2 years probably makes a whole big difference in their perception. Kobe is so going to be forgotten in 8 years. So much ignorance.

[LakerGirl72]

he is on crack. :facepalm

[JohnnyWall]

He's on crack, but bwink23 (32Dayz) is psychotic.

You tell me which is worse.

[bwink23]

He's on crack, but bwink23 (32Dayz) is psychotic.

You tell me which is worse.


:facepalm .....unbelievable.

[Legends66NBA7]

Thanks for the heads up bwink. Really, that nonsense that you, sopa, blackadam arguing with Confidence guy is coming here now ?

I've seen those arguements, I thought you just move on. He comes here and he will get shut down and banned.

Every single person in the world and I'm pretty sure here on ISH too knows Jordan > every single guard, there's nothing that guy could possibly be worse than say... KB42PAH... they have some what the same reasoning though but I guarantee you that everyone here will shut him down, put him on ignore, and he will banned.

[bwink23]

Thanks for the heads up bwink. Really, that nonsense that you, sopa, blackadam arguing with Confidence guy is coming here now ?

I've seen those arguements, I thought you just move on. He comes here and he will get shut down and banned.

Every single person in the world and I'm pretty sure here on ISH too knows Jordan > every single guard, there's nothing that guy could possibly be worse than say... KB42PAH... they have some what the same reasoning though but I guarantee you that everyone here will shut him down, put him on ignore, and he will banned.

Funny you mention KB42PAH....i used to frequent his channel alot more than Bruce's in the day. I would sit in on video streams with the Kobe stans during Laker games just to see what their reactions were. I was basically the devil's advocate, me and a couple other Jordan fans like RRTale. Somebody had to bring a sense of reality to those fanatics. He doesn't make videos anymore for fear of having them pulled for copyright infringement. But yeah, i've told him to bring his arguments here to see how other, more diverse range of fans think about his assessments.

[Legends66NBA7]

Funny you mention KB42PAH....i used to frequent his channel alot more than Bruce's in the day. I would sit in on video streams with the Kobe stans during Laker games just to see what their reactions were. I was basically the devil's advocate, me and a couple other Jordan fans like RRTale. Somebody had to bring a sense of reality to those fanatics. He doesn't make videos anymore for fear of having them pulled for copyright infringement. But yeah, i've told him to bring his arguments here to see how other, more diverse range of fans think about his assessments.

Yes, I remember those days when the idotic debates between PAH and Bruce were going on. Must have been a waste of energy for those two going at it like that for like 2-3+ years.

I'm pretty sure the best posters here (Kblaze, Shaqattack, and so on...) will shut him down quick like they shut down PAH.

And if Jeff sees what he's up to, he's getting banned.

[bwink23]

Yes, I remember those days when the idotic debates between PAH and Bruce were going on. Must have been a waste of energy for those two going at it like that for like 2-3+ years.

I'm pretty sure the best posters here (Kblaze, Shaqattack, and so on...) will shut him down quick like they shut down PAH.

And if Jeff sees what he's up to, he's getting banned.

I having been here long, but the best posters i've seen here are Kblaze, oldschoolbball and da reality....who do you think they are??

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I having been here long, but the best posters i've seen here are Kblaze, oldschoolbball and da reality....who do you think they are??

Not to speak for legends, but the best posters I've seen here are ShaqAttack3234, Kblaze, Oldschoolbball, Tjhunt76 (da reality), Samurai Swoosh, catch24, and there are few a more, just can't think of them right now.

Too bad a lot of those guys rarely post here now.

[Legends66NBA7]

I having been here long, but the best posters i've seen here are Kblaze, oldschoolbball and da reality....who do you think they are??

Not too different from yours.

My Top 10:

All Net
bizil
catch 24 (mayhem8z, I think you guys know each other)
Da Realist (da reality; tjhunt)
Dave 3
D.J.
DMAVS 41
G.O.A.T.
Kblaze8855
ShaqAttack3234


Might be missing a few but yeah I will just leave it to 10.


Oldschoolbball is a "specialist" so to speak (not saying he's a bad poster, but he's more one sided), as he is similar to you, Bruce, etc... In that he shuts down the Kobe trolls, so he will be good for Confidence.

[Legends66NBA7]

Not to speak for legends, but the best posters I've seen here are ShaqAttack3234, Kblaze, Oldschoolbball, Tjhunt76 (da reality), Samurai Swoosh, catch24, and there are few a more, just can't think of them right now.

Too bad a lot of those guys rarely post here now.

Thanks anyways man.

Both of our lists are similar anyways. Who's Samurai Swoosh by the way ? I've heard of him before, but like you said, he probably rarely posts.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Not too different from yours.

My Top 10:

All Net
bizil
catch 24 (mayhem8z, I think you guys know each other)
Da Realist (da reality; tjhunt)
Dave 3
D.J.
DMAVS 41
G.O.A.T.
Kblaze8855
ShaqAttack3234


Might be missing a few but yeah I will just leave it to 10.


Oldschoolbball is a "specialist" so to speak (not saying he's a bad poster, but he's more one sided), as he is similar to you, Bruce, etc... In that he shuts down the Kobe trolls, so he will be good for Confidence.
lol

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Thanks anyways man.

Both of our lists are similar anyways. Who's Samurai Swoosh by the way ? I've heard of him before, but like you said, he probably rarely posts.

A down the earth Bulls fan from Chicago. He was a Jordan homer, but also enjoyed watching Kobe play (was even a fan of his). Really unbias, reminded me of catch24, the Lakers fan.

[bwink23]

Not to speak for legends, but the best posters I've seen here are ShaqAttack3234, Kblaze, Oldschoolbball, Tjhunt76 (da reality), Samurai Swoosh, catch24, and there are few a more, just can't think of them right now.

Too bad a lot of those guys rarely post here now.


I don't see any love for Jlauber here. I know he's kinda of delusional for Wilt but he's got a TON of information on the guy for anyone not familiar with Wilt's career....Even if you disagree, you can't help but gain some knowledge on 60's basketball and Wilt Chamberlain.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

lol

Who do you got, RG? :pimp:

[bwink23]

Thanks anyways man.

Both of our lists are similar anyways. Who's Samurai Swoosh by the way ? I've heard of him before, but like you said, he probably rarely posts.


YEP....i know mayhemz pretty well....We used to have great discussions on Bruce's old youtube page, many of those not basketball related...One of the few Kobe fans who kept it real.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I don't see any love for Jlauber here. I know he's kinda of delusional for Wilt but he's got a TON of information on the guy for anyone not familiar with Wilt's career....Even if you disagree, you can't help but gain some knowledge on 60's basketball and Wilt Chamberlain.
He believes Wilt beat up a mountain lion and that Wilt used to dunk on his freethrows in HS :facepalm

[Deuce Bigalow]

Who do you got, RG? :pimp:
lol I'm not rocketsgreatness or whoever he is

[305Baller]

yeah but wilt scored 100 points, not even an on fire Kobe could do that.

[bwink23]

He believes Wilt beat up a mountain lion and that Wilt used to dunk on his freethrows in HS :facepalm


Sure, but if you look past that mess and just at the facts of the matter...he's got info on Wilt no one would spend a minute of their day trying to find.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

lol I'm not rocketsgreatness or whoever he is

I don't even care anymore man. If you are, you are, if not, oh well.

Who do you consider the 'good posters' on ISH?

[Legends66NBA7]

I don't see any love for Jlauber here. I know he's kinda of delusional for Wilt but he's got a TON of information on the guy for anyone not familiar with Wilt's career....Even if you disagree, you can't help but gain some knowledge on 60's basketball and Wilt Chamberlain.

Well jlauber certinally does have knowledge and he's one of the people I thought off too, but I don't know if he will be willing enough to chase confidence out here with that nonsense.

[Legends66NBA7]

lol

You can "lol" if you want but he's certinally one of the better posters here.

And when it comes to the guy bwink is talking about, he will surely be needed for it.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I don't even care anymore man. If you are, you are, if not, oh well.

Who do you consider the 'good posters' on ISH?
Shaqattack and Kblaze

[305Baller]

Shaqattack and Kblaze

Kblaze is the man.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I don't see any love for Jlauber here. I know he's kinda of delusional for Wilt but he's got a TON of information on the guy for anyone not familiar with Wilt's career....Even if you disagree, you can't help but gain some knowledge on 60's basketball and Wilt Chamberlain.

He copy and pastes most of his information from Wikipedia (and air-jurden--the Jordan hate blog). I don't consider him a good poster. If I am not being enlightened, I don't consider you a 'good poster'.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Shaqattack and Kblaze

Yeah for sure. They are awesome. Who else though? Anyone that stopped posting or dudes from the OTC?

[bwink23]

Well jlauber certinally does have knowledge and he's one of the people I thought off too, but I don't know if he will be willing enough to chase confidence out here with that nonsense.


I wasn't thinking of confidence at all in that statement..i was just referring to his vast amount of knowledge on Wilt Chamberlain....by the way, Confidence's handle on here will be SlayerEnraged....if he can ever figure out how to post on here...for some reason he's not being allowed to post.

[Legends66NBA7]

A down the earth Bulls fan from Chicago. He was a Jordan homer, but also enjoyed watching Kobe play (was even a fan of his). Really unbias, reminded me of catch24, the Lakers fan.

Interesting. Too bad he doesn't post as often now, he would have been a nice help, for sure.

Especially if he's like catch.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yeah for sure. They are awesome. Who else though? Anyone that stopped posting or dudes from the OTC?
32Dayz and Heat007...:lol

catch24 is a good poster too

[Legends66NBA7]

I wasn't thinking of confidence at all in that statement..i was just referring to his vast amount of knowledge on Wilt Chamberlain....by the way, Confidence's handle on here will be SlayerEnraged....if he can ever figure out how to post on here...for some reason he's not being allowed to post.

Oh I see.

It takes some time for you're account to activate on ISH. Sometimes you have to wait a while and sometimes it takes only a week.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Who is RG anyway? I heard his account name is rocketsgreatness or something like that and he has like 30+ accounts

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

32Dayz and Heat007...:lol

catch24 is a good poster too

WOAT troll ever.

[Legends66NBA7]

Yeah for sure. They are awesome. Who else though? Anyone that stopped posting or dudes from the OTC?

B-Low
GOBB
Mainak

Not to say they stopped, but they rarely come around here.

chazzy
OmniStrife


Can't think of people right now...

[Legends66NBA7]

Who is RG anyway? I heard his account name is rocketsgreatness or something like that and he has like 30+ accounts

He would have actually been good for a battle like bwink is talking about.

You might have seen is most recent accounts:

ThaSwagg3r
Da Heroic One
DaPercieve
True Aristotle
TDPrime2030
Inception245 (whatever)

There is like a thread with all of his accounts in it too

[bwink23]

Oh I see.

It takes some time for you're account to activate on ISH. Sometimes you have to wait a while and sometimes it takes only a week.


When he does, he's going to PUSH "height and weight" differential between the eras....I went round and round about that with him, but he doesn't get it. he used basketball reference for his source, which has Jordan weighing 195 pounds his whole career. And Kobe weighing 200. ACCURATE? No way....even both Espn.com and nba.com have different measurements...plus weight fluctuates year to year as you get older. NO COMMON SENSE in him.

[Deuce Bigalow]

He would have actually been good for a battle like bwink is talking about.

You might have seen is most recent accounts:

ThaSwagg3r
Da Heroic One
DaPercieve
True Aristotle
TDPrime2030
Inception245 (whatever)

There is like a thread with all of his accounts in it too
thinks Kobe>Jordan? :lol

[Legends66NBA7]

When he does, he's going to PUSH "height and weight" differential between the eras....I went round and round about that with him, but he doesn't get it. he used basketball reference for his source, which has Jordan weighing 195 pounds his whole career. And Kobe weighing 200. ACCURATE? No way....even both Espn.com and nba.com have different measurements...plus weight fluctuates year to year as you get older. NO COMMON SENSE in him.

Oh no worries, I've talked to him too.

He seemed to have noticed I gave him a Blitz link, but he did agree on a new measurement I told him to look at it and guage with it and he agreed, though he still said something about "it still comes down to 1 shot difference"...

By comparison, PAH seems like a genius compared to him.

[Asukal]

I wasn't thinking of confidence at all in that statement..i was just referring to his vast amount of knowledge on Wilt Chamberlain....

His VAST amount of knowledge on Wilt is a result of diligent but obsessive research and not actual memories of watching the man play. If I made up a lie about Wilt's greatness and spread it in the internet, chances are jlauber will believe it because its Wilt. Besides stats, what does he really know about Wilt? :rolleyes:

[Legends66NBA7]

thinks Kobe>Jordan? :lol

Not at all, which is why if he saw the guy bwink is talking about he would join the Jordan side (the reality side).

[bwink23]

His VAST amount of knowledge on Wilt is a result of diligent but obsessive research and not actual memories of watching the man play. If I made up a lie about Wilt's greatness and spread it in the internet, chances are jlauber will believe it because its Wilt. Besides stats, what does he really know about Wilt? :rolleyes:


Just his stats alone would be a hell of alot more than 99% of the posters know on here.

[Asukal]

Just his stats alone would be a hell of alot more than 99% of the posters know on here.

I respect his knowledge of Wilt's stats. What I don't respect is the way he uses that knowledge to make himself look like such an expert on Wilt. Its disgusting how everytime somebody questions Wilt's greatness, he would label you a hater and write an essay. :facepalm

I respect posters like Psileas and Phila because despite them being biased towards Wilt and his era they don't pretend to know something they don't. :pimp:

[jlauber]

I respect his knowledge of Wilt's stats. What I don't respect is the way he uses that knowledge to make himself look like such an expert on Wilt. Its disgusting how everytime somebody questions Wilt's greatness, he would label you a hater and write an essay. :facepalm

I respect posters like Psileas and Phila because despite them being biased towards Wilt and his era they don't pretend to know something they don't. :pimp:

Actually it is quite the OPPOSITE. Most posters here have absolutely no knowledge on Wilt's greatness, including yourself. As for posting stats, that is just ONE solid area of my arguments...as well as Chamberlain's H2H's with players like Kareem, Thurmond, Russell and Lanier. Keep in mind that Lanier was among the best centers of the 70's and of course, Kareem was the best player of the 70's, and then, even at age 38, he was CRUSHING players like Hakeem and Ewing. Yet, in his career H2H's with an OLD Chamberlain, those that actually WATCHED them play, would say that, at the very least, Wilt was the equal of a PRIME Kareem. And the majority of those that watched a PRIME Chamberlain, including myself, would tell you that a PRIME Wilt was a SUPERIOR player to Kareem.

One of the most amazing spectacles took place near the end of the clinching game five of the '71 WCF's, and as Chamberlain left the floor. He received a STANDING OVATION from the crowd...and the game was played in MILWAUKEE. Here again, this was a 34 year old Chamberlain, only a year removed from major knee surgery, and well past his peak...and arguably in the WORST season of his career...battling a PRIME Kareem, in arguably his GREATEST season...to a complete statistical DRAW (and there were those that believed that Chamberlain outplayed Kareem in that series.)



How time flys. We're now at a time where the 2003 era is a vastly inferior era to a teenager. Like just 2 seasons ago when the Lakers won it was probably not too long ago, but the last 2 years probably makes a whole big difference in their perception. Kobe is so going to be forgotten in 8 years. So much ignorance.

Let me address that from MY perspective. There will be those that dismiss MJ's career in much the same manner that those of the Jordan-era dismissed the greats that came before him.

I posted this about a year ago...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136114&page=4


On AVERAGE, yes, the athletes of today are generally bigger, stronger, faster, and more athletic. I might even argue that they are more skilled, as well. Why? Because they have had 60-70 years of experience to draw from...those pioneers that played before them. And clearly they have the advantage of modern technology, medicine, training, nutrition, coaching, and even "supplements."

MY point has been, though, that the differences between the players of today, and even those of my youth (the 60's) is not as dramatic as many believe.

Hell, I have argued that Babe Ruth would be a great player in TODAY's game. Yes, the rotund, chicken-legged Ruth, would be a great player today. Many would scoff at that. How could a guy who played in the 20's and 30's, and before integration, in a much smaller populated period, be a great player today? And the pundits would say, how do I come to that conclusion?

I apologize up front, to those that have read my take before. I am just posting this for the benefit of those that have not read it. Fortunately, in the world of sports, we have "bridges." And one of them is Ted Williams, whose career spanned four decade ('39 thru '60.) In his rookie season, Williams batted .327, with 31 HRs. In that same season, Jimmy Foxx hit .360 with 35 HRs. The year before, 1938, Foxx batted .349 with 50 HRs. Going back just a few years before that, in 1932, Foxx batted .364 with 58 HRs. In 1932, Ruth, already on the decline at age 37, batted .341 with 41 HRs. Of course, if you go back to Ruth's prime, in say 1927, his BA was .356 with 60 HRs. (And, you could argue that Ruth was even more dominant in the early 20's, when he had a season in which he outhomered every TEAM in the AL.)

So what you ask? Well, we have established that Ruth (and his 42 ounce bat), even late in his career, was nearly as good as a prime Foxx...who. later in his career, was still a better hitter than rookie Williams. Once again, Williams batted .327 with 31 HRs in 1939. In 1941, Williams hit .406 with 37 HRs. Ok, but the critics will argue that all of that took place before integration. Alright, now let's jump to 1957, and in the majors that had a decade of integration. Williams, at age 38 BTW, hit .388 with 38 HRs...or nearly the identical numbers that he put up in 1941. In fact, in Williams LAST season, and at age 41, in 1960, he hit .316 with 29 HRs in only 310 ABs.

In 1955 Willie Mays hit batted .319 with 51 HRs. In 1965 Mays hit .317 with 52 HRs. Hank Aaron, in 1957, slugged 44 HRs. In 1973, Aaron at age 39, pounded 40 HRs in 392 ABs. In 1977 George Foster cracked 52 HRs. In the late 70's, Mike Schmidt and Dave Kingman were hitting nearly 50 HRs in some seasons.

You can see where I am going with this. Ruth faced many of the pitchers that Foxx faced. Foxx faced many of the pitchers that Williams faced. Williams faced many of the pitchers that Mays and Aaron faced. And so on.

But I am still not done. We have another "bridge" in Nolan Ryan, who not only faced Aaron and Mays, but McGwire and those of the "Steroid Era." Ryan pitched for 27 years, in a career that spanned four decades ('69 thru '93.) Now, as great as Ryan was, he was seldom the best pitcher in the leagues in which he pitched. Pitchers like Seaver, Marichal, Lolich, Gibson, Carleton, Guidry, Gooden, Clemens, and others, had better seasons. And several of those hurlers were pitching when Koufax was dominating the MLB for five years.

I have mentioned it previously, but Ryan was clocked at 101 MPH, in the 8th inning of a game in 1974, in which he had already thrown 162 pitches...and by a SLOW gun. So, for those that would argue that today's pitcher's throw harder than those of yesteryear, yes, on AVERAGE, but here again, by only a few MPH. In fact, using that "slow" gun as an example, Ryan may very well have been FASTER than anyone today...

http://www.efastball.com/baseball/st...major-leagues/

Furthermore, Ryan may very well not have even been the fastest pitcher of HIS era...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Dalkowski

There was an article a few years back in SI (and sorry, I won't take the time to look it up now), in which they had measured Barry Bonds' longest HRs. Beforer his alleged steroid use, his longest blast was 475 ft. His longest HR was recorded in a year in which he was probably using PEDs, and it was measured at 490 ft. Why is that significant?

Players like Reggie Jackson (remember his incredible all-star game HR?), Harmon Killebrew, Frank Howard, Willie McCovey, and even Lou Brock (who hit a HR over the deepest fence at the Polo Grounds...some 505 feet) have all hit longer HRs. But how about 5-11, 180 lb. Mickey Mantle?

http://www.themick.com/10homers.html

Now whether you believe those numbers, or not, how about this....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_Mantle


Quote:
Mantle also hit some of the longest home runs in Major League history. On September 10, 1960, he hit a ball left-handed that cleared the right-field roof at Tiger Stadium in Detroit and, based on where it was found, was estimated years later by historian Mark Gallagher to have traveled 643 feet (196 m). Another Mantle homer, hit right-handed off Chuck Stobbs at Griffith Stadium in Washington, D.C. on April 17, 1953, was measured by Yankees traveling secretary Red Patterson (hence the term "tape-measure home run") to have traveled 565 feet (172 m). Though it is apparent that they are actually the distances where the balls ended up after bouncing several times,[4] there is no doubt that they both landed more than 500 feet (152 m) from home plate. Mantle twice hit balls off the third-deck facade at Yankee Stadium, nearly becoming the only player (along with Negro Leagues star Josh Gibson, though Gibson's home run has never been conclusively verified) to hit a fair ball out of the stadium during a game. On May 22, 1963, against Kansas City's Bill Fischer, Mantle hit a ball that fellow players and fans claimed was still rising when it hit the 110-foot (34 m) high facade, then caromed back onto the playing field. It was later estimated by some that the ball could have traveled 620 feet (190 m) had it not been blocked by the ornate and distinctive facade. While physicists might question those estimates, on August 12, 1964, he hit one whose distance was undoubted: a center field drive that cleared the 22-foot (6.7 m) batter's eye screen, beyond the 461-foot (141 m) marker at the Stadium.




Not only that, but Mantle was hitting "tape measure" shots from BOTH sides of the plate. And the only PED he was using was alcohol, which would have had a negative effect on his performance.

The bottom line...IMHO, Ruth would be a great player in TODAY's MLB. And, who knows just how great he would have been with all of the benefits of modern technology?

Continued...

[AlphaWolf24]

Yes, I remember those days when the idotic debates between PAH and Bruce were going on. Must have been a waste of energy for those two going at it like that for like 2-3+ years.

I'm pretty sure the best posters here (Kblaze, Shaqattack, and so on...) will shut him down quick like they shut down PAH.

And if Jeff sees what he's up to, he's getting banned.


listen to yourself...:roll:

your like a little hype man standing in the background talkin sh!t....


and none of those guy's are shuttin down anything....Snaq attack is a great poster when he isn't talking about Kobe.....

but as soon as starts getting mad his east coast bias shows through and he starts spewing B.S Kobe slightin....I already called him on it many times and put him in his place...I have been watching basketball longer then him and know when he is full of it...


his BS might work on the little kids here......but come on now.


deal wit son..

[jlauber]

Continuing...


I have already mentioned OJ, Deion, Darrell Green, Bo, and Hershel. All of them were probably faster than any CURRENT NFL player. But, as fast as they were, the fastest legitimate NFL player...EVER...was HOFer Bob Hayes, who not only averaged 42 yards on EVERY one of his 76 TDs, he ran a 10.0 flat 100 meters in 1964, which is the fastest ever recorded by a legitimate NFL player.

And, I have also mentioned Kareem, who was another "bridge." Kareem, in his statistical prime, struggled mightily against an aging Nate "who?" Thurmond in their 61 H2H games. Kareem also shot .464 against Wilt in their 28 H2H games, which was nearly 100 points less than his .559 career FG%. Furthermore, Wilt was well past his prime, and playing on a surgically repaired knee in the last 27 of those 28 games. In the one game before he shredded his knee, he outscored, outrebounded, outassisted, outblocked, and outshot Kareem in a game in 1969. And, in their last ten H2H games, Chamberlain held Kareem to .434 shooting, and was blocking nearly five "unblockable" sky-hooks in those meetings. In addition, a PRIME Chamberlain pounded Thurmond in the mid-60's...with one game in which he outscored Nate, 45-13, and he had several others in the 30's. In their three H2H post-seasons, Chamberlain held Nate to less than 40% shooting in all three, with a low of .343,...and meanwhile, Chamberlain shot over 50% in all three with a high of .560. Furthermore, Chamberlain outrebounded Nate in all three, including the '73 WCF's in which he battered Thurmond, 23.6 rpg to 17.2 rpg.

Why was that significant? Because, once again, a 39 year old Kareem was torching Hakeem and Ewing in '86. In fact, Kareem, at ages 40 and 41 held his own against those two. How could a well-over-the-hill Abdul-Jabbar easily score 40 points against those guys (and his 46 point game against Hakeem came on 70% shooting....21-30)...and yet, he struggled to score 20 ppg against Thurmond, and barely shot over 40% against him. The same Thurmond that a prime Chamberlain crushed?

Continuing, Hakeem was generally considered the best center of the 90's, and in fact, many would say that he outplayed Shaq in '95 ( I wouldn't go that far, though.) Granted, Shaq was not yet at his peak, but it does put Kareem's performances against Hakeem in a different perspective. Shaq was clearly the best center of the 00's, and yet we have a Kareem, well past his prime, and thoroughly outplaying a Hakeem who would battle Shaq to a draw in the mid-90's. Using all of that info, what would a PRIME Chamberlain have done against the best centers of the 00's?

And, let's throw Wilt out of the conversation. How about Bill Russell, who was 6-10, with a long wingspan, and was also a WORLD-CLASS high-jumper? Or 6-6, 235 lb. Gus Johnson, who shattered THREE backboards in the 60's. There were many great dunkers long before MJ, too. Gus, of course, then Baylor, Hawkins, David Thompson, Dr. K, and the great Dr. J. There were great shooters too. Google the term "Lucas Layup", which was coined for Jerry Lucas, a 6-8 230 lb PF who could hit shots from 25 ft. Jon McGlocklin and Flynn Robinson were perhaps two of the best pure shooters of their era. Even Jerry West and Gail Goodrich admitted that Robinson was a better shooter than either of them.

And how about "Pistol Pete" Maravich? Go to YouTube and search for his 68 point game against the Knicks. The man was a magician with the ball, and IMHO, he was a far better all-around basketball player than Jason "White Chocolate" Williams.

Watch videos of West, Oscar, Barry, Gilmore, McAdoo, Gervin, Dantley, and many others. They could ALL play today, and they would be among the best players of THIS era.


Once again, yes, the athletes of today are generally bigger, stronger, faster, and more athletic...but the margin is not nearly as dramatic as the "ESPN Generation" would have you believe.

[AlphaWolf24]

Actually it is quite the OPPOSITE. Most posters here have absolutely no knowledge on Wilt's greatness, including yourself. As for posting stats, that is just ONE solid area of my arguments...as well as Chamberlain's H2H's with players like Kareem, Thurmond, Russell and Lanier. Keep in mind that Lanier was among the best centers of the 70's and of course, Kareem was the best player of the 70's, and then, even at age 38, he was CRUSHING players like Hakeem and Ewing. Yet, in his career H2H's with an OLD Chamberlain, those that actually WATCHED them play, would say that, at the very least, Wilt was the equal of a PRIME Kareem. And the majority of those that watched a PRIME Chamberlain, including myself, would tell you that a PRIME Wilt was a SUPERIOR player to Kareem.

One of the most amazing spectacles took place near the end of the clinching game five of the '71 WCF's, and as Chamberlain left the floor. He received a STANDING OVATION from the crowd...and the game was played in MILWAUKEE. Here again, this was a 34 year old Chamberlain, only a year removed from major knee surgery, and well past his peak...and arguably in the WORST season of his career...battling a PRIME Kareem, in arguably his GREATEST season...to a complete statistical DRAW (and there were those that believed that Chamberlain outplayed Kareem in that series.)




Let me address that from MY perspective. There will be those that dismiss MJ's career in much the same manner that those of the Jordan-era dismissed the greats that came before him.

I posted this about a year ago...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136114&page=4



Continued...


pwnt

[Legends66NBA7]

listen to yourself...:roll:

your like a little hype man standing in the background talkin sh!t....


and none of those guy's are shuttin down anything....Snaq attack is a great poster when he isn't talking about Kobe.....

but as soon as starts getting mad his east coast bias shows through and he starts spewing B.S Kobe slightin....I already called him on it many times and put him in his place...I have been watching basketball longer then him and know when he is full of it...


his BS might work on the little kids here......but come on now.


deal wit son..

So what's your say on Kblaze ? :confusedshrug:


Not too different from yours.

My Top 10:

All Net
bizil
catch 24 (mayhem8z, I think you guys know each other)
Da Realist (da reality; tjhunt)
Dave 3
D.J.
DMAVS 41
G.O.A.T.
Kblaze8855
ShaqAttack3234


Might be missing a few but yeah I will just leave it to 10.


Oldschoolbball is a "specialist" so to speak (not saying he's a bad poster, but he's more one sided), as he is similar to you, Bruce, etc... In that he shuts down the Kobe trolls, so he will be good for Confidence.


Not to speak for legends, but the best posters I've seen here are ShaqAttack3234, Kblaze, Oldschoolbball, Tjhunt76 (da reality), Samurai Swoosh, catch24, and there are few a more, just can't think of them right now.

Too bad a lot of those guys rarely post here now.


Shaqattack and Kblaze


Kblaze is the man.

kuniva added Samurai Swoosh (who I never met here)

I even added these two:

chazzy
OmniStrife

They all seem like solid posters that would put an end to that guy :confusedshrug:

Why you mad at me when others here pretty much agreed on Kblaze ShaqAttack?

[bwink23]

pwnt


Is this the same dude who said the 99 Bulls won 11 of their last 13 games before Jordan came back, when in actuality they were 9-6?? LOL

WEAK SAUCE loser. Only Kobe terds like you resort to making up BULLSHIT to try and strengthen your case....


11 out of 13 games?? You = zero credibility, now get in my pocket son....

2EZ......NEXT

[AlphaWolf24]

Is this the same dude who said the 99 Bulls won 11 of their last 13 games before Jordan came back, when in actuality they were 9-6?? LOL

WEAK SAUCE loser. Only Kobe terds like you resort to making up BULLSHIT to try and strengthen your case....


11 out of 13 games?? You = zero credibility, now get in my pocket son....

2EZ......NEXT

they were 11 - 6 idiot....and it was 9 - 4....not 9 - 6...


whatever it was....they were playing great before MJ came back....they did better the year before without him.




go look up the stats on a website.....I'm going off my memory of actually watching the games kid.(you tell me what's better)






(points to the door)...GTFO my house.







next

[I.R.Beast]

So sick of MJ.....

Its pointless cross comparing these two ERAs, the defensive rules are so different. Isolation was more prevalent in Jordan's time due to illegal defense and the elite on ball defender was more valuable, these days ball movement is more prevalent and team defense is most important.

Whether MJ is/was better than wade/lebron doesn't matter, all that Matters is How much better than his peers Jordan was.

The gap between MJ and his peers is/was bigger than the Gap between Kobe/LBJ/WADE's peers. Which makes jordan greater and more dominant of a player.

[bwink23]

they were 11 - 6 idiot....and it was 9 - 4....not 9 - 6...


whatever it was....they were playing great before MJ came back....they did better the year before without him.




go look up the stats on a website.....I'm going off my memory of actually watching the games kid.(you tell me what's better)





(points to the door)...GTFO my house.







next


The Bulls were 9-6 kid you know that cuz you looked it up...they lost 2 in a row before going 9-4, LOL.....

You couldn't remember watching them go 11 out of 13 huh?? LOL....you can cut the act now kid, you didn't watch JACK SHIT.


How did the Bulls win 55 ??? Take a look at the roster dumb ass....12 players that were a part of the first and second 3-peat teams COMBINED on one team for one year.....LOL 2EZ


NEXT

[AlphaWolf24]

The Bulls were 9-6 kid you know that cuz you looked it up...they lost 2 in a row before going 9-4, LOL.....

You couldn't remember watching them go 11 out of 13 huh?? LOL....you can cut the act now kid, you didn't watch JACK SHIT.


How did the Bulls win 55 ??? Take a look at the roster dumb ass....12 players that were a part of the first and second 3-peat teams COMBINED on one team for one year.....LOL 2EZ


NEXT


jesus Fing christ!!...

from Feb 15 - March 17 the Bull's went 11 - 6 (that was the month before Mj came back)

anyway you cut it they were playing great...11 outta 13 games or whatever it was....again I was going of of memory....I did not look it up until your dumbazz took 2 hours to look it up and then act like 3 games makes it any better :lol .....

because it is very obvious you never watched Jordan play.




go play with your space jam doll.....and make sure to look at the stats when you have no clue what your talking about...





once again...the Bull's were playing great before Jordan came back.






















(pounds chest).....next

[NumberSix]

the kid is right.

this is a tougher era and all the greatest perimeter players in history all came around this time.
It's true. Since the rules changed, there are now tons of dominant perimeter players in the league and no good big men. It's crazy, because it used to be that big men dominated the game and there were almost no dominant perimeter players. Funny how that worked out, right? Isn't that an amazing coincidence?

I guess all the good perimeter players all just happened to be born around the same time, ensuring they would all play in the same era. Likewise for the good big men. I mean, what other explanation could there be?

[bwink23]

jesus Fing christ!!...

from Feb 15 - March 17 the Bull's went 11 - 6 (that was the month before Mj came back)

anyway you cut it they were playing great...11 outta 13 games or whatever it was....again I was going of of memory....I did not look it up until your dumbazz took 2 hours to look it up and then act like 3 games makes it any better :lol .....

because it is very obvious you never watched Jordan play.




go play with your space jam doll.....and make sure to look at the stats when you have no clue what your talking about...





once again...the Bull's were playing great before Jordan came back.






















(pounds chest).....next


I'd be mad to if someone called me out on my BULLSHIT!!! Going 9-6 in your last 15 before Jordan arrived is nothing to brag about kid....LOL


Get in my pocket son.......NEXT

[AlphaWolf24]

I'd be mad to if someone called me out on my BULLSHIT!!! Going 9-6 in your last 15 before Jordan arrived is nothing to brag about kid....LOL


Get in my pocket son.......NEXT


11 - 6 is much better the Jordan ever did without Pippen...


that's 4 sure...



and the Bull's played great without MJ...and yes they were playing great right before MJ came back...I know because...I was watching.



go away kid.....it's clear you never watched MJ play:roll:

[jlauber]

I respect his knowledge of Wilt's stats. What I don't respect is the way he uses that knowledge to make himself look like such an expert on Wilt. Its disgusting how everytime somebody questions Wilt's greatness, he would label you a hater and write an essay. :facepalm

I respect posters like Psileas and Phila because despite them being biased towards Wilt and his era they don't pretend to know something they don't. :pimp:

As for KNOWLEDGE on Wilt's career...I WATCHED Chamberlain DOMINATE his peers from the mid-60's on until his LAST game. Not only that, I have RESEARCHED much of his career. Something that the "Wilt-bashers" OBVIOUSLY have NOT done.

There are way too many uneducated posters here who perhaps have blindly accepted the IDIOTIC Bill Simmons (who NEVER actually saw one of the Wilt-Russell H2H's) and his blatant "anti-Wilt" stance. I have SHREDDED every argument that that goofball came up with regarding Chamberlain.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=160893

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=223621

Now, give me an example of YOUR knowledge on Chamberlain...

[AlphaWolf24]

So what's your say on Kblaze ? :confusedshrug:




I don't really remember:confusedshrug: .....I watched some of his videos on youtube that were good....


but it's been along time since I read anything basketball related I think....

[bwink23]

11 - 6 is much better the Jordan ever did without Pippen...


that's 4 sure...



and the Bull's played great without MJ...and yes they were playing great right before MJ came back...I know because...I was watching.



go away kid.....it's clear you never watched MJ play:roll:






Even better than the 24-11 the Bulls were in 1998 without Scottie Pippen due to injury??? let's see:


24-11 is a .686 winning record.
11-6 is a .647 winning record.......looks like MJ won that one did he??

I thought you said you watched the games?? How come you didn't know the Bulls did pretty well without Scottie in the lineup???

Maybe cuz your full of SHIT!!! LOL.....in the pocket you go.


NEXT

[AlphaWolf24]

Even better than the 24-11 the Bulls were in 1998 without Scottie Pippen due to injury??? let's see:


24-11 is a .686 winning record.
11-6 is a .647 winning record.......looks like MJ won that one did he??

I thought you said you watched the games?? How come you didn't know the Bulls did pretty well without Scottie in the lineup???

Maybe cuz your full of SHIT!!! LOL.....in the pocket you go.


NEXT



yeah!!...and the year before with Pippen the Bull's were 31 - 4 after 35 games.....

the following year without Pippen they go 24 - 11.....a 7 game drop off...



recap...Pippen misses 35games and the Bull's slip 7 games from the year before.......

MJ misses a whole season and the Bull's only slip 2 games...



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:




you owned yourself again IDIOT!!!






get back in my pocket B!tch!!........2EZ! (you in way over your head on dis kid)





betta get yo azz to BR.com quikly

[bwink23]

yeah!!...and the year before with Pippen the Bull's were 31 - 4 after 35 games.....

the following year without Pippen they go 24 - 11.....a 7 game drop off...



recap...Pippen misses 35games and the Bull's slip 7 games from the year before.......

MJ misses a whole season and the Bull's only slip 2 games...



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:




you owned yourself again IDIOT!!!






get back in my pocket B!tch!!........2EZ! (you in way over your head on dis kid)


NOT EVEN CLOSE KIDDO.....The Bulls in 1995 without Jordan were 34-31 before he came back....the next year he plays they go 72-10, LOL!!! that's over 30 game swing!! GET BACK IN POCKET TERD YOU GOT NOTHING!!!


NEXT

[AlphaWolf24]

NOT EVEN CLOSE KIDDO.....The Bulls in 1995 without Jordan were 34-31 before he came back....the next year he plays they go 72-10, LOL!!! that's over 30 game swing!! GET BACK IN POCKET TERD YOU GOT NOTHING!!!


NEXT


yup way to change the subject because you got RAPED!....

I'm done with you little man.....it's obvious you just a little B!tch who just started watching basketball....


typical Jordan stan...




I already explained the 72 - 10 season.....(zip)...you def in my pocket.


















next

[DFish]

How are people actually taking what 32Dayz says seriously...?

[bwink23]

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]yup way to change the subject because you got RAPED!....

I'm done with you little man.....it's obvious you just a little B!tch who just started watching basketball....


typical Jordan stan...




I already explained the 72 - 10 season.....(zip)...you def in my pocket.


















Yeah you explained how the Bulls were 11 out of 13 before Jordan came back and how they lost Grant to injury....when in fact they were 9-6 and Grant wasn't even on the damn team that year, MR. "I watch the games" LOL.....BULLSHIT!

RUN ALONG NOW

[bwink23]

How are people actually taking what bwink23 says seriously...?


Cuz it makes too much damn sense kid...PROVE ME WRONG or shut the **** up....

[jlauber]

His VAST amount of knowledge on Wilt is a result of diligent but obsessive research and not actual memories of watching the man play. If I made up a lie about Wilt's greatness and spread it in the internet, chances are jlauber will believe it because its Wilt. Besides stats, what does he really know about Wilt? :rolleyes:

Truly a laughable comment. BTW, I was posting about Wilt's amazing athletcism and skills long ago. I KNEW he was a phenomenal ATHLETE, and now, fortunately, we are getting more-and-more examples of that. There is VIDEO footage of a young Chamberlain, with a straight-up, split second leap, with his fingertips nearly as high as the top of the backboard. Sonny Hill, a highly respected sports icon in Philadelphia, also claimed to have witnessed Chamberlain touching the top of the backboard. And, we also have a FIRST-HAND account, by none other than TEX WINTER, claiming that he WITNESSED Chamberlain dunking a FT with a start just inside the FT circle. And we are getting ample footage of Chamberlain's SKILLS, as well, on Youtube.

Of course, the internet is just PLASTERED with accounts of his amazing physical feats, too. Not only that, but where are those that would DISPUTE those many unfathomable phsyical accomplishments? Chamberlain played in the NBA for 14 seasons, (and there are even incredible first hand accounts in the 80's against NBA players). He played with, and against, hundreds, if not thousands of NBA players. He played for, and against, dozens of coaches. He was dogged by many members of the media. And there may have been millions who actually SAW him play. And yet, with all of these so-called "myths", where are the legitimate eye-witness accounts that would DISPUTE them?

Then there is also the NBA RECORD BOOK...of which he owns the lion's share. Where are those that would DISPUTE all of his RECORDED statistical feats? And why ONLY Chamberlain???? How come ONLY Wilt so thoroughly DOMINATED his peers. Where are the other 40+ ppg seasons in Chamberlain's era? Where are the other 25 rpg seasons in Wilt's career? Where are the other .680+ FG%'s that Wilt hung in his career? And I could go on about his 50-60-70+ point games. Or his staggering rebounding records. Or his eye-popping shooting games. Or his quad-doubles. Or some of his mind-numbing triple-doubles. Or his freakish blocks.

Please explain to me why it was ONLY Chamberlain.

Here again, the "Wilt-bashers" are the one's here who show their ignorance. THEY are the one's who BLINDLY claim that Wilt was a "loser", a "stats-padder", and a "choker." And I have shredded EVERY one of those claims. In fact, I am confident in my KNOWLEDGE and RESEARCH on Chambelain's career, that I will challenge ANYONE here who claims otherwise.

[jlauber]

He believes Wilt beat up a mountain lion and that Wilt used to dunk on his freethrows in HS :facepalm

First of all, I have never claimed that I believed that Wilt "beat up a mountain lion." Given all that we know about his STAGGERING strength, though, I wouldn't dismiss it. And maybe you can tell me the size of that mountain lion, since you are obviously disputing it.

As for Chamberlain dunking his FT's...are YOU more of an expert than TEX WINTER, who claims that he actually WITNESSED it? Oh, and BTW, the NCAA and the NBA banned the dunking of FTs BECAUSE of Chamberlain. Here again, maybe you can provide me a legitimate first-hand account of the MANY that actually WITNESSED Chamberlain's astonishing physical feats that would DISPUTE these claims.

Of course, why should anyone here take YOU seriously, when you have been on record as claiming that Wilt going 1-11 from the FT line in game seven of the '70 Finals (in a blowout loss) cost Wilt 3-4 rings?

[OldSchoolBBall]

Jordan is a better player than both, and its not really close.

Wade and Bron career-wise have dunked with more power than Jordan did for sure and Wade particularly is faster on the baseline attack than Jordan.

Wade blocks shots better than Jordan did overall and Brons defense is probably better than Jordan's.

I have no stats to back any of this up.

This entire post is complete and utter nonsense. The ONLY parts of this post that can maybe even be ARGUED are that Lebron dunks with more power than MJ did and Wade as a shotblocker, which is also a fair argument, though MJ is superior there as well. The rest is just...ridiculous. Bron's defense better than MJ's? Wade faster along the baseline? No. Bron's defensive impact isn't even in the same league as Jordan's.


these days ball movement is more prevalent and team defense is most important.


Ball movement is actually nowhere near what it was in the 80's through the mid-late 90's.

[Asukal]

As for KNOWLEDGE on Wilt's career...I WATCHED Chamberlain DOMINATE his peers from the mid-60's on until his LAST game. Not only that, I have RESEARCHED much of his career. Something that the "Wilt-bashers" OBVIOUSLY have NOT done.

You WATCHED all or most of Chamberlain's games? :roll: I don't believe any of that bs. You know why? Because only a few years ago YOU(yes you) didn't think the players of the 60s were any good compared to today. If you really watched Wilt in his prime, you don't even need to look at stats to make an assessment of how good he is. You sir are full of shit. :hammerhead:

And lastly I'm not going to claim I know anything about Wilt because I'm not like you. Even if I research every bit of stat available out there on Wilt, I didn't watch the guy play. I will however respect his legacy as a top 10 all time player but I will not believe those blatant bs about him killing a mountain lion with his bare hands and sleeping with 20000 women. :banana:

[Asukal]

First of all, I have never claimed that I believed that Wilt "beat up a mountain lion." Given all that we know about his STAGGERING strength, though, I wouldn't dismiss it. And maybe you can tell me the size of that mountain lion, since you are obviously disputing it.

As for Chamberlain dunking his FT's...are YOU more of an expert than TEX WINTER, who claims that he actually WITNESSED it? Oh, and BTW, the NCAA and the NBA banned the dunking of FTs BECAUSE of Chamberlain. Here again, maybe you can provide me a legitimate first-hand account of the MANY that actually WITNESSED Chamberlain's astonishing physical feats that would DISPUTE these claims.

See? You say you never claimed you believe yet you don't dismiss it? It goes only two ways, either you believe it or you don't. Hypocrite. :facepalm

As for the free throws, Tex Winter said he saw Wilt did it in a highschool game, and Wilt was 3 steps behind the top of the circle when he dunked his free throw. He said the rules at that time allowed that kind of thing. So to put it into context, what Wilt did is entirely possible given that he has some space to build up momentum and has exceptional athleticism. I'm sure some freak athlete today can also do it but the rules just don't allow it so we'll never see it again. :confusedshrug:

[jlauber]

You WATCHED all or most of Chamberlain's games? :roll: I don't believe any of that bs. You know why? Because only a few years ago YOU(yes you) didn't think the players of the 60s were any good compared to today. If you really watched Wilt in his prime, you don't even need to look at stats to make an assessment of how good he is. You sir are full of shit. :hammerhead:

And lastly I'm not going to claim I know anything about Wilt because I'm not like you. Even if I research every bit of stat available out there on Wilt, I didn't watch the guy play. I will however respect his legacy as a top 10 all time player but I will not believe those blatant bs about him killing a mountain lion with his bare hands and sleeping with 20000 women. :banana:

No, a few years ago I just accepted what most all of the posters here now blindly accept...that the athletes of today are much better than those of 50 years ago.

And most all of that was based on the size of NFL and college football players. There is no doubt that today's average size football player is considerably larger than those of yesteryear. We have QBs that are 6-5 and 260 lbs, and safeties that are 230 lbs. And yes, the average football player is faster than those of 50 years ago, too. We now have QBs that are running 4.3 40's. HOWEVER, in terms of physical SKILL, there have been MANY great players in the last 50 years that would be just as great today.

If I were to tell a young football fan today that there is currently a 50 year old man that would among the fastest players in the league today, I'm sure they would dismiss me as an escapee from the nuthouse. Yet, Darell Green, who reportedly ran a 4.15 40 in the 80's, recently turned 50...and promptly went out an celebrated with a 4.43 40. Players like Hershel Walker, Bo Jackson, and OJ Simpson would be the fastest RBs in TODAY's NFL. And one more time, "Bullet Bob" Hayes ran a 10.06 100 meters in 1964...which is still the fastest time ever recorded by a legitimate NFL player.

In baseball, the 5-10, 180 lb. Mickey Mantle was hitting MANY 500+ ft homers back in the 50's and 60's. Clearly, he was the most powerful HR hitter of all-time. And Nolan Ryan was clocked at 101 MPH in the 8th inning of a game in which he had thrown 162 pitches...and by a SLOW gun. In fact, Mitch Williams, on the Dan Patrick show a few months ago, claimed that had Ryan been clocked with the more modern gun, that he would have been around 107 MPH.

Of course, in the NBA we have "bridges" like Havlicek, Barry, Moses, Gilmore, and especially Kareem. A PRIME Kareem struggled mightily against players like Thurmond and Gilmore, and those that witnessed his battles with Chamberlain (and I saw nearly all of them) would claim that, at the very least, an OLD Wilt was his equal.

Players like Maravich, Gus Johnson, Hawkins, David Thompson, Barry, West, Oscar, McAdoo, Dr. J, Jerry Lucas, and so many others were amazing athletes and highly skilled.

And, as I mentioned earlier in this topic...there are already some that are claiming that MJ would not be nearly as great in today's NBA. 20 years from now that number will swell. 30 years from now Kobe and Lebron will be considered ordinary, and MJ will be compared to Bob Cousy.

The reality is, the difference in athleticism and skills by today's athletes is only marginal with those of even 50 years ago. And, basketball is much more of a skill game, than a physical game. Otherwise, a 37 year old would not be winning assist titles, nor would a 6-9 white guy be running away with rebounding titles.

And luckily, more-and-more footage is becoming available which clearly illustrates the SKILLS of the players of the 60's and 70's. I can't help but laugh at those that claim that West could only dribble with his right hand. I remember watching the Harlem Globetrotters in the 60's, and virtually all of them were not only dribbling equally with both hands, they were doing crossovers, behind-their back dribbles, and between the legs dribbling.

Same with shooting skills. Bill Sharman shot .932 from the FT line in 1959. I WITNESSED Jerry Lucas making some 20+ straight shots from between the circles in a pre-game warmup in an early 70's game. And players like Flynn Robinson and Jon McGlocklin had 3pt range long before the NBA adopted that rule. And once again, WATCH footage of McAdoo, Thompson, Maravich, and Dr. J...and you can clearly see that so much of what we now watch in the NBA was being displayed 40-50 years ago.

As for Chamberlain, the YouTube footage clearly demonstrated his 15+ range early in his career. Of course, he was an athletic FREAK, as well. A PART-TIME High-Jump champion (as well as participating in the long jump and triple jump_, a SPRINTER (who outraced the Chief's fastest RB in a tryout in the mid-60's), with MASSIVE strength (just google Wilt's strength...the internet is PLASTERED with articles about his staggering power.)

And ultimately, the man was nearly 7-2 (and would be measured at 7-3 in TODAY's NBA), with a 7-8 wingspan. That, combined with his amazing leaping ability, his sprinter's speed, and his unmatched strength, and his SKILLS, and I just find it laughable that there are those that believe he would be a bench-warmer in TODAY's NBA...which is CLEARLY the WEAKEST period ever for the center position.

[Andrei89]

on retarded.

It's arguable that Kobe is better than MJ with his skill, individual accolades and rings and leadership.

but....to say Wade and Lebron is just as good....lol


OH the irony!

[Deuce Bigalow]

First of all, I have never claimed that I believed that Wilt "beat up a mountain lion." Given all that we know about his STAGGERING strength, though, I wouldn't dismiss it. And maybe you can tell me the size of that mountain lion, since you are obviously disputing it.

As for Chamberlain dunking his FT's...are YOU more of an expert than TEX WINTER, who claims that he actually WITNESSED it? Oh, and BTW, the NCAA and the NBA banned the dunking of FTs BECAUSE of Chamberlain. Here again, maybe you can provide me a legitimate first-hand account of the MANY that actually WITNESSED Chamberlain's astonishing physical feats that would DISPUTE these claims.

Of course, why should anyone here take YOU seriously, when you have been on record as claiming that Wilt going 1-11 from the FT line in game seven of the '70 Finals (in a blowout loss) cost Wilt 3-4 rings?
So you're telling me that Wilt standing from the freethrow line (15 feet away from the rim) jumps from there and dunks it?

[jlauber]

So you're telling me that Wilt standing from the freethrow line (15 feet away from the rim) jumps from there and dunks it?

I tell you what...just GOOGLE "Wilt dunking free throws" and you tell me. There are literally dozens of accounts (maybe 100's.)

And this from NBA.com...

http://www.nba.com/history/players/chamberlain_bio.html


During his career, his dominance precipitated many rules changes. These rules changed included widening the lane, instituting offensive goaltending and revising rules governing inbounding the ball and shooting free throws (Chamberlain would leap with the ball from behind the foul line to deposit the ball in the basket).



Tex Winter claims to have witnessed Wilt starting his leap a few feet behind the FT circle. Chamberlain claims to have started it just inside the top half of the FT circle.

In any case, both the NCAA and NBA banned the dunking of FTs BECAUSE of Chamberlain.

[AngelEyes]

I love Dwyane Wade but suggesting he's even close to Jordan as a basketball player is a big stretch.

[La Frescobaldi]

I love Dwyane Wade but suggesting he's even close to Jordan as a basketball player is a big stretch.

It is. Wade's not close to Jordan it's crazy to think that kind of stuff.

Even the stupid youtube footage is clear Jordan will eat Wade for lunch

[SlayerEnraged]

It is. Wade's not close to Jordan it's crazy to think that kind of stuff.

Even the stupid youtube footage is clear Jordan will eat Wade for lunch

I'm the "KobeConfidence" that he's talking about. I never said what he said I said...He doesn't know how to read.