Prime Steve Nash vs. Current Derrick Rose

[Lebron23]

Who's the better PG, and the better individual player ( Playoffs and Regular Season)?

[Go Getter]

Derrick hasn't had a chance to do half of what Nash has so it is an unfair question.


**** a position. Derrick is the better player.

[TaLvsCuaL]

Better PG: Nash
Better individual player: Nash also, but more close.

[Lebron23]

Derrick hasn't had a chance to do half of what Nash has so it is an unfair question.


**** a position. Derrick is the better player.


Nash is a late bloomer. He showcased his amazing play making ability when signed a contract with the Phoenix Suns.

[entropy35]

Nash better player. Rose better scorer.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Nash by a mile

[inclinerator]

nash

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Nash could score more if that was his goal but he knows his teams wont be successful without everyone chipping in

[Go Getter]

Nash is a late bloomer. He showcased his amazing play making ability when signed a contract with the Phoenix Suns.
Thanks for that. Smh, he ain't make plays on d though while Rose does.


And after he left the Mags they got better, went to the finals, and eventually won it all.


Nash is the most overrated player of our time.

[donald_trump]

nash.

if one of them is the better point guard, they are automatically the better player. they both play point guard. that logic is retarded.

[donald_trump]

Thanks for that. Smh, he ain't make plays on d though while Rose does.


And after he left the Mags they got better, went to the finals, and eventually won it all.


Nash is the most overrated player of our time.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

nash is a better defender during his mvp days than rose was during his. that is pure fact.

[Go Getter]

Nash could score more if that was his goal but he knows his teams wont be successful without everyone chipping in
You do what it takes to win, whether it be shoot, pass, or set a pick all night.


Nash plays no d, doesn't guard other elite point guards, and has never had any success in the post season.



I think he's a great talent and all but way overrated.

[Lebron23]

Better PG: Nash
Better individual player: Nash also, but more close.

Nash is also an underrated playoffs performer. He's also one of the best play makers in NBA History.

[Go Getter]

I'm glad I have you here to set me straight on what a pure fact is. Thank you.

[Hank]

Nash over Rose,


EASILY !!

[Go Getter]

Nash is also an underrated playoffs performer. He's also one of the best play makers in NBA History.
Too bad he isn't one of the best WINNERS.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Too bad he isn't one of the best WINNERS.
And Rose is? :facepalm

[Go Getter]

Nash over Rose,


EASILY !!
This right here should settle the debate right here. This fool don't got the sense god gave a piss ant and he picked Nash.


Rose all day.

[donald_trump]

I'm glad I have you here to set me straight on what a pure fact is. Thank you.

since coming to phoenix nash has averaged .75 charges a game. along with his .75 steals average at phoenix.

that means he gets the ball 1.5 times for his team adding all those up.

rose on the other hand averages .12 charges a game since in the league along with .9 steals a game. 1.02 times he gets the ball for his team a game.

not to mention nash kept his opponent to less production last season then roses direct opponent. a 37-38 year old nash. :oldlol:
plus roses team was better defensively with him off the court. lol.

[Go Getter]

And Rose is? :facepalm
Rose has shown signs of being a winner on every level. Not saying that his career will be better than Nash's but as of right now Nash has no chance in hell of guarding Does while Rose can bother Nash.

[knicksman]

nash even at this age:oldlol: rose is like iverson. Lucky to play on the best defensive team and got all the credit for it because defense doesnt show in the statsheet.

[Carbine]

I think if you broke it down, Derrick would have more > over Nash....but Nash is perhaps the greatest pick and roll guard ever, is one of the best shooters ever, and has a track record of performing very well in the playoffs individually. Leadership out the ass. Not saying Rose doesn't, but Nash is that dude.

I think Nash is more effective on offense. He can get your team a quality look more times than Rose can, whether it's him that takes the shot or his teammates as a result of his playmaking. I think his game or more dependent on other guys because they have to make the shots ultimately, but he puts his guys in position to where offense is either catch and shoot, or catch and take it strong - he simplifies the game for his teammates in other words.

Rose is more capable in isolation. Much more capable.

Conclusion: Rose is much better 1-1 person. I favor Nash slightly in a 5-5 setting.

Tough call.

[Go Getter]

since coming to phoenix nash has averaged .75 charges a game. along with his .75 steals average at phoenix.

that means he gets the ball 1.5 times for his team adding all those up.

rose on the other hand averages .12 charges a game since in the league along with .9 steals a game. 1.02 times he gets the ball for his team a game.

not to mention nash kept his opponent to less production last season then roses direct opponent. a 37-38 year old nash. :oldlol:
plus roses team was better defensively with him off the court. lol.
Not worth my time going back and forth with to dumb ass.


If you believe that then fine.

[Lebron23]

Too bad he isn't one of the best WINNERS.


Suns had a chance to win the NBA Championship in 2007, but his team were screwed by the referees.

Nash MVP Years > 2011 Derrick Rose. That Suns teams faced superior teams in the Western Conference while the Bulls had an easy route to the conference Finals.

[alwaysunny]

Apart from their playmaking abilities:

1. Rose is considered one of the worst MVPs ever
2. Nash won it over prime Kobe, still dominant Shaq, and rising superstar LeBron James..twice.

Either way, regardless of their stats and accolades, I would want Nash on my team.

[GreatGreg]

nash even at this age:oldlol: rose is like iverson. Lucky to play on the best defensive team and got all the credit for it because defense doesnt show in the statsheet.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Knicks fans...

[305Baller]

Depends on the makeup of my squad. If I have a serviceable frontcuourt, Rose.
If I have a dominant frontcourt? Give me Nash.

Also depends on the athleticness of my wings. If the are athletic, maybe we can get by without a dominant frontcourt with Nash.

[Go Getter]

Apart from their playmaking abilities:

1. Rose is considered one of the worst MVPs ever
2. Nash won it over prime Kobe, still dominant Shaq, and rising superstar LeBron James..twice.

Either way, regardless of their stats and accolades, I would want Nash on my team.
So Nash was better than Kobe and Shaq? Hell no!


Nashs MVPS were a farce and Rose deserved his.

[donald_trump]

Not worth my time going back and forth with to dumb ass.


If you believe that then fine.

so you ignore that:
- nash gets the ball more times for his team off the opponents.
- keeps his direct opponent in check
- rose hinders his teams defense and they are better with him off the court in terms of defense.

yeah, no point arguing because you dont have anything to disprove me.

rose is a horrible defender. still. he will eventually get props for it, even though he will continue to be poor. he could get on the nba first team for defense, and he wouldnt be fooling real fans. he is one of the worst, if not the worst starting point guard in terms of defense.

why did jeff teague suddenly become a big deal in the playoffs? who was checking him? rose. :oldlol:

[Deuce Bigalow]

So Nash was better than Kobe and Shaq? Hell no!


Nashs MVPS were a farce and Rose deserved his.
:roll: :roll:

[alwaysunny]

So Nash was better than Kobe and Shaq? Hell no!


Nashs MVPS were a farce and Rose deserved his.

That makes no sense. If Nash didn't deserve his neither did Rose.

[donald_trump]

So Nash was better than Kobe and Shaq? Hell no!


Nashs MVPS were a farce and Rose deserved his.

great comeback.

"No youre wrong. im right"

aren't you in your 30's? you should be embarrassed of yourself not being able to come up with a concise argument instead of arguing like a child.
typical of you calling out the white players again. just admit you're racist as well.

[DMV2]

Rose is the better overall player, but Nash is the better the distributing PG.

I agree with Go Getter when he said Nash is one of the most overrated players in the history of the NBA.

[donald_trump]

Rose is the better overall player, but Nash is the better the distributing PG.

I agree with Go Getter when he said Nash is one of the most overrated players in the history of the NBA.

changed a 29 win team to a 62 win team. show me other players who have had that type of impact.

i'll tell you a couple. tim duncan and larry bird.

but yeah, hes overrated.

[ThatsGame]

Derrick Rose sucks. Look at his playoff performance versus Miami. He got SHUT DOWN. He probably cried after that. Working extra during regular season means jack if you can't up your game in the playoffs with everyone else.

[Maniak]

And after he left the Mags they got better, went to the finals, and eventually won it all.


Mavs were in conference finals while Nash was there. Not to mention, its been years since Nash has been there. They have gotten better, but thats not all due to the fact Nash is gone. There have been so many trades and signing made since Nash left to bring them to a championship team.


Nash is the most overrated player of our time

How can you say that when guys like Kobe and LeBron are in the L?


and has never had any success in the post season.


Again, multiple conference finals, and should have gone farther if it wasn't for the obvious bad calls by refs and the suspension on Amar'e(and I think..Diaw as well?)



Too bad he isn't one of the best WINNERS.


In terms of regular season(which means nothing hurr durr) Nash is one of the best winners of his time.

[Deuce Bigalow]

36 year old Nash (2010) had a better playoff run than "MVP" Rose last year

[Miller for 3]

Forget prime, give me current Nash as my PG over Rose.

[Hank]

so you ignore that:
- nash gets the ball more times for his team off the opponents.
- keeps his direct opponent in check
- rose hinders his teams defense and they are better with him off the court in terms of defense.

yeah, no point arguing because you dont have anything to disprove me.

rose is a horrible defender. still. he will eventually get props for it, even though he will continue to be poor. he could get on the nba first team for defense, and he wouldnt be fooling real fans. he is one of the worst, if not the worst starting point guard in terms of defense.

why did jeff teague suddenly become a big deal in the playoffs? who was checking him? rose. :oldlol:

I wouldn't say Rose is the worst defending PG in the league. But he is in the bottom half of the league when it comes to defense,

That is for certain.

Nash is a much MUCH better team player than Rose. Nash is a better shooter, much better passer, a lot smarter, much higher basketball IQ, much better at read recognition, much better pick and roll PG, much better floor leader and general for an offense, better at getting his teammates involved and understands spacing concepts and passing lanes angles much better.

rose is only better than nash at 1-on-1 getting by a man. That's it

[calvin671996]

Nash is the better pg, he can shoot and Pass,5 times lead the assist record per season
Individual player is Nash as well for now,2 season MVP and 7 times all star
Rose even not reach his peak

[NastyCrossover1]

Steve Nash is a better passer and shooter than Rose.

[nathanjizzle]

since coming to phoenix nash has averaged .75 charges a game. along with his .75 steals average at phoenix.

that means he gets the ball 1.5 times for his team adding all those up.

rose on the other hand averages .12 charges a game since in the league along with .9 steals a game. 1.02 times he gets the ball for his team a game.

not to mention nash kept his opponent to less production last season then roses direct opponent. a 37-38 year old nash. :oldlol:
plus roses team was better defensively with him off the court. lol.

nash carreer avg
def rebounds 2.5
steals .8
blocks .1

derrick rose carreer avg
def reb 2.9
steals .9
blocks .4

so where is your proof for that? how do you know its not joakims fault or loul dengs fault or boozers fault or bogans fault that bulls play better defense when rose is off the court? because all of them pretty much come off at the same time. And how do you know its not because our bench dominates most teams benches? You rose haters with the same stupid falacys

[nathanjizzle]

since coming to phoenix nash has averaged .75 charges a game. along with his .75 steals average at phoenix.

that means he gets the ball 1.5 times for his team adding all those up.

rose on the other hand averages .12 charges a game since in the league along with .9 steals a game. 1.02 times he gets the ball for his team a game.

not to mention nash kept his opponent to less production last season then roses direct opponent. a 37-38 year old nash. :oldlol:
plus roses team was better defensively with him off the court. lol.

and how could you possibly know that...this is a guess right? post your source so i can lol at you for being a dumbass

[nathanjizzle]

Derrick Rose sucks. Look at his playoff performance versus Miami. He got SHUT DOWN. He probably cried after that. Working extra during regular season means jack if you can't up your game in the playoffs with everyone else.

wait...a miami heat fan talking about other teams crying?:applause: good joke.

should i pull up the interview when spoestra told the media there was miami heat players crying in the locker room after there loss to chicago?

[Yung D-Will]

Nash arguably the best shooting point guard of all time and the most efficent 4, 50/40/90 Seasons. Not to mention one of the greatest passers to ever play the game.

It's not close.

[Yung D-Will]

So Nash was better than Kobe and Shaq? Hell no!


Nashs MVPS were a farce and Rose deserved his.
What? Rose got his first mvp because of the Bulls turnaround even though he was clearly no where close to being the best in the leauge.

Nash got his first mvp because of the suns turnaround even though he wasn't top 5 in the leauge.

Simple.

[kidachi]

First of all Rose is exciting to watch.. I've liked his game since he was in HS..

But true point guard vs. POINTS guard?

I'll go with true PG.

[donald_trump]

and how could you possibly know that...this is a guess right? post your source so i can lol at you for being a dumbass

go look at 82games, hoopdata, and synergy stats(you have to pay for this one).

its all readily available. ive posted the same thing too many times in these nash vs rose debates that im sick of reposting the source. go through the forums and find it.

[Go Getter]

What? Rose got his first mvp because of the Bulls turnaround even though he was clearly no where close to being the best in the leauge.

Nash got his first mvp because of the suns turnaround even though he wasn't top 5 in the leauge.

Simple.
Rose led the Bulls to the most WINS and #1 seed as the Bulls best player.


Nash's best seasons stats were inflated due to a fatuous style that disregarded defense.


Overrated IMO but great.

[JtotheIzzo]

was going to post...saw heavy Go Getter action...
http://gifs.gifbin.com/3204840swsw.gif

the hate directed at both players is too much, they are both quality...but Nash has done it longer, and Nash stepped up in the playoffs and got better, Rose was sonned by the Heat. Luckily for him he is young.

[Yung D-Will]

Rose led the Bulls to the most WINS and #1 seed as the Bulls best player.


Nash's best seasons stats were inflated due to a fatuous style that disregarded defense.


Overrated IMO but great.

If Nash's seasons are inflated then Rose's are as well. Being in a offense that told him to take so many shots is clearly gonna increase his ppg.

I don't get how you can use that as a way to discredit Nash.

With or Without the system hes one of the most efficent shooters ever.

[Jyap9675]

Both great players but im going with nash. A true PG, makes everyone better in his team. Nash doesnt rely much on athlecism and hence he's a got a long playing career. I wonder what is going to happen to rose once he ages and loses his athlecism, the next iverson? Steve francis?

Everyone's got haters whether lebron, nash or rose.. I just dont get why nash's defense is being blown out of proportion. It is really easy to judge.

[Go Getter]

If Nash's seasons are inflated then Rose's are as well. Being in a offense that told him to take so many shots is clearly gonna increase his ppg.

I don't get how you can use that as a way to discredit Nash.

With or Without the system hes one of the most efficent shooters ever.


So are Steve Kerr, Del Curry, and Dale Ellis. So what.

Rose is better than all those guys too.

Rose's PPG isn't the most impressive part about his game...it's about him doing what it takes to lead his team to a win.

[Maniak]

So are Steve Kerr, Del Curry, and Dale Ellis. So what.

Rose is better than all those guys too.

Rose's PPG isn't the most impressive part about his game...it's about him doing what it takes to lead his team to a win.
Implying that Nash doesn't?

Also,
Nash's best seasons stats were inflated due to a fatuous style that disregarded defense.

Wins are wins.

[donald_trump]

So are Steve Kerr, Del Curry, and Dale Ellis. So what.

Rose is better than all those guys too.

Rose's PPG isn't the most impressive part about his game...it's about him doing what it takes to lead his team to a win.

yeah, relying on his defense to hold up is a great asset to have. :oldlol:

you saw what happens when his defense goes up against a decent team like the heat. they fall apart. know why? because their point guard is responsible for one of the worst offenses in the league.
hes lucky to be surrounded by that team.

its essentially lebrons team in cleveland, except rose is no where near as good offensively as james, and not close to touching him defensively.

[I.R.Beast]

First of all Rose is exciting to watch.. I've liked his game since he was in HS..

But true point guard vs. POINTS guard?

I'll go with true PG.
i'll go with the player that will win me more games and carry me deeper in the playoffs, and is harder to stop.....

Derrick Rose all day. This "True PG" crap is a load of baloney there is nothing that proves a true pg is more valuable than a scoring pg. Rose is a better and thats all that matters.

[kidachi]

i go with player that will win me more games and carry deeper in the playoffs, and is harder to stop.....

Between the two.. this is still arguable.. you can't say it's gotta be Nash..or Rose



Derrick Rose all day. This "True PG" crap is a load of baloney there is nothing that proves a true is more valuable than a scoring pg. Rose is a better and thats all that matters.

What I meant with "true PG" is I personally think that a PG's job is to mainly distribute the ball and score second.. but I'm not saying that they shouldn't be scorers..

[I.R.Beast]

Between the two.. this is still arguable.. you can't say it's gotta be Nash..or Rose



What I meant with "true PG" is I personally think that a PG's job is to mainly distribute the ball and score second.. but I'm not saying that they shouldn't be scorers..

That's fine, i dont see why, when there is no statistical evidence to support that that is what's best for a team. Teams are always better served when assists total per player is less than 7 and ass sists are well distributed among teamates. That indicates good ball movement, where as one player racking up assists is indicative of the opposite. i rather rose, because "true pg" require more talent surrounding him to be succesful than a Rose type pg would which is why Rose is better, he can do more with less.

[dee-rose]

Nash is quite possibly the best shooter of all time. He was the best passer in the league at the time, and he still is. This argument really isn't close.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Lol who was the last scoring PG who also got a ring? D Rose has a ring now? This " winner" stuff needs to stop. Its not nashs fault that tim duncan historically owned the entire nba. But id rather my pg play like magic johnson instead of iverson. Make teammates do things they didnt think possible.

[I.R.Beast]

Lol who was the last scoring PG who also got a ring? D Rose has a ring now? This " winner" stuff needs to stop. Its not nashs fault that tim duncan historically owned the entire nba. But id rather my pg play like magic johnson instead of iverson. Make teammates do things they didnt think possible.

Magic played on stacked laker teams. Lol..TOny Parker, Billups, Fisher,....Scoring PGs that have won rings this decade.

[kidachi]

Magic played on stacked laker teams. Lol..TOny Parker, Billups, Fisher,....Scoring PGs that have won rings this decade.

Fisher was a scorer?

[I.R.Beast]

Fisher was a scorer?

he's a scorefirst PG....catch and shoot guy...he definately wasnt a distributor.

[kidachi]

he's a scorefirst PG....catch and shoot guy...he definately wasnt a distributor.

he's a SHOOTER not a SCORER.

yes he wants to score first.. but that doesn't make you a SCORER. A SCORER scores points.. tons of them.

[miles berg]

So Nash was better than Kobe and Shaq? Hell no!


Nashs MVPS were a farce and Rose deserved his.

Rose wasn't even close to Dirk or LeBron.

[Jyap9675]

i'll go with the player that will win me more games and carry me deeper in the playoffs, and is harder to stop.....

Derrick Rose all day. This "True PG" crap is a load of baloney there is nothing that proves a true pg is more valuable than a scoring pg. Rose is a better and thats all that matters.

Didnt Nash lead his team deep into the playoffs many times? He has got the record of most playoff apearance without a ring. Nash is hard to stop, perhaps you should watch 2010 playoffs where he played with one eye and annihilated the spurs, besides many other playoff games.

At the end of the day, everyone's got their own preference but I am glad to see that majority chose nash.

[nayte]

Gotta say a preety sheety comparison.At least wait till Rose is in his prime.
Anyways i gotta take Nash in this scenario

[kenny817]

Derrick hasn't had a chance to do half of what Nash has so it is an unfair question.


**** a position. Derrick is the better player.

I really hope this is a joke

[Walker]

Rose led the Bulls to the most WINS and #1 seed as the Bulls best player.


Nash's best seasons stats were inflated due to a fatuous style that disregarded defense.


Overrated IMO but great.
Wow are you just being a twit or are you really that stupid?
In Nash's first year back in Phoenix he took them from a 29 win team to 62 WINS, the BEST RECORD IN THE LEAGUE and a conference final.
The season after? ANOTHER conference final...
The following season? 2nd best record in the league....
Three seasons later ANOTHER conference final...

Yet he's not a winner right? LOL moron.
One of if not the BEST shooter the league has ever seen, with the stats to back it up.
One of if not the BEST passers in league history with the stats to back it up.
Yet he's overrated right? LOL again, you're a moron.
Even mentioning Rose's name in the same sentence as Nash is a joke.
One of the best points in league history > midget SG.

[kenny817]

Forget prime, give me current Nash as my PG over Rose.
thiiissssss^

[dee-rose]

Even if you don't factor in the fact that Nash is "true PG", Rose still doesn't have much of an argument here. Nash is the greatest shooter of all time, he scores in the paint extremely well, he's the best passer of the decade, he's led the Suns to some pretty great playoff success and he's clutch.

[Odinn]

Nash is also an underrated playoffs performer. He's also one of the best play makers in NBA History.
Nash's 2nd era as a Sun(2005-06-07-08-10 playoffs);
20.0ppg / 3.7rpg / 10.7apg / 0.5spg / 0.2bpg / 3.8tpg / 50.1%fg / 38.8%3pt / 90.6%ft

20/4/11 on 50-39-91 pretty incredible.:applause:

[Bucket_Nakedz]

Prime nash.

Derrick hasnt even sniffed his prime and hes already an mvp. Nash has been the best distributor since he became a sun and has had more clutch moments than rose so far.

Im a die hard bulls fan but nash is deserves his props. I doubt derrick will ever attain nashs offensive court vision/feel and passing ability, but what he lacks in thay department he makes up for it athleticism and speed.

Im also baffled that some of you think that rose is a worster defender than nash. granted, rose's first two years were pretty terrible, but dude became stout defender when thibs came to town. he would have his moments due to not taking his competiton serious (e.g. jeff teague, dj augustine going ham on him) but when played top pgs, he did pretty good. i expect him to get better here on out and wouldnt be surprised if he made an all defensive team. he may not get the steals like paul and wall, but you wont see any pgs taking advantage of dude.

[Bucket_Nakedz]

Even if you don't factor in the fact that Nash is "true PG", Rose still doesn't have much of an argument here. Nash is the greatest shooter of all time, he scores in the paint extremely well, he's the best passer of the decade, he's led the Suns to some pretty great playoff success and he's clutch.
Ah... youth tsk tsk tsk

[nayte]

Nash's 2nd era as a Sun(2005-06-07-08-10 playoffs);
20.0ppg / 3.7rpg / 10.7apg / 0.5spg / 0.2bpg / 3.8tpg / 50.1%fg / 38.8%3pt / 90.6%ft

20/4/11 on 50-39-91 pretty incredible.:applause:

Damn good stats..Imo Nash doesn't get the crdit he deserves..too much not athletic enough rubbish

[Yung D-Will]

So are Steve Kerr, Del Curry, and Dale Ellis. So what.

Rose is better than all those guys too.

Rose's PPG isn't the most impressive part about his game...it's about him doing what it takes to lead his team to a win.
And that's exactly why Nash got his mvp turning around his team and winning games to take them to the conference finals...

What's your point?

[blacknapalm]

c'mon man, prime nash. incredible court vision, stamina, heart and shooting. despite his non-elite athleticism, he still had the uncanny ability to slip a screen, juke or crossover into a layup seamlessly.

the only thing you can say is that rose was better than nash at their respective ages. nash was buried in the roster and a bit unsure of himself early in his career. once he gained experience though....well, we saw what happened.

let's wait a few seasons and see how rose improves his decision making and shooting. you have to like that he appears to be a hard worker but right now...i'd easily take a prime nash. the only current PG out there that has a case against nash is prime kidd and 08-09 cp3. period, that's it. those are the best 3 active PG's in their primes in the past 15 years. we'll see if cp3 can bounce back in the way he appeared healthy in the playoffs and keep it up in what is supposed to be his prime now. i still think rose is actually more of a SG but i consider him better than westbrook for sure.

[swe_suns]

Nash vs Mavericks 05 playoffs:

Game 1 - Dallas @ Phoenix 102-127: 11/13/6 on 40/50/100
Game 2 - Dallas @ Phoenix 108-106: 23/13/3 on 41/0/100
Game 3 - Phoenix @ Dallas 119-102: 27/17/3 on 57/20/67
Game 4 - Phoenix @ Dallas 109-119: 48/5/5 on 71/67/100
Game 5 - Dallas @ Phoenix 108-114: 34/12/13 on 50/40/100
Game 6 - Phoenix @ Dallas 130-126: 39/12/9 on 58/63/100

Average: 30/12/7 on 53/40/95

Source: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200505090PHO.html

[blacknapalm]

Nash vs Mavericks 05 playoffs:

Game 1 - Dallas @ Phoenix 102-127: 11/13/6 on 40/50/100
Game 2 - Dallas @ Phoenix 108-106: 23/13/3 on 41/0/100
Game 3 - Phoenix @ Dallas 119-102: 27/17/3 on 57/20/67
Game 4 - Phoenix @ Dallas 109-119: 48/5/5 on 71/67/100
Game 5 - Dallas @ Phoenix 108-114: 34/12/13 on 50/40/100
Game 6 - Phoenix @ Dallas 130-126: 39/12/9 on 58/63/100

Average: 30/12/7 on 53/40/95

Source: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200505090PHO.html

48 pt game, a 34 pt triple double and a 39 point near triple double :bowdown:

ps: i understand rose needs more help on the offensive end but some are acting like that's all that matters when chicago has a very good defensive/rebounding team. i just think rose could be a more pure PG but yes, i get it, he needs more help and he's still young

[Go Getter]

And that's exactly why Nash got his mvp turning around his team and winning games to take them to the conference finals...

What's your point?
My point is Rose has already done that before his 23rd birthday.

[Tlova]

My point is Rose has already done that before his 23rd birthday.
:facepalm So?

[thejumpa]

Unless you were under a rock for the last 10 years, then you would know that a prime Steve Nash is much, much better than a current Derrick Rose. Rose isn't the shooter, playmaker, passer, or efficient scorer that Nash was and for the most part, still is. He hasn't even done much in the postseason. The only advantage Rose has over Nash is his physical abilities. He's stupid athletic so he'll get to the hoop and make exciting plays. Nash can't but so what? He's 38 and still plays like he's 25 due to his basketball IQ and polished basketball skill(neither of which Rose has at this point).

This "comparison" is pretty lopsided. Let's see what Rose is like in 5 years when his game has evolved a little bit. As of right now, those saying Rose is better are caught up in the hype.

[I.R.Beast]

Damn good stats..Imo Nash doesn't get the crdit he deserves..too much not athletic enough rubbish

Nash gets too much credit....THose suns teams were loaded with talent. Surely better than the Bulls of last year.

Nash is so overrated on these boards.

[ThatsGame]

Nash gets too much credit....THose suns teams were loaded with talent. Surely better than the Bulls of last year.

Nash is so overrated on these boards.

Rose could only dream to put up the same numbers Nash used to in the playoffs. Rose is the overrated one. By the boards, and by the NBA.

[Walker]

Nash gets too much credit....THose suns teams were loaded with talent. Surely better than the Bulls of last year.

Nash is so overrated on these boards.

See now this is where you're wrong. Actually think about it, were they really loaded or did Nash make them look much better than they were?

STAT, Matrix and JJ are the only real top flight talent you could say he played with. Hell I beleive you wouldn't even be able to call JJ anywhere near top talent if he hadn't have played and learnt from Nash.

Players that hadn't had great careers came to Phoenix and suddenly looked good. House, Tim Thomas, James Jones, Frye, Diaw the list goes on.

That is the real thing that makes Nash so good, the fact that he makes everyone else look so good.

[Fatal9]

Nash last year before his hip injury was a better player than Rose.

[Go Getter]

Prime Nash and Rose were both the focal points of their teams.

Rose sacrificed stats and numbers for wins. As you can see by his first two years, shooting 49 & 48% he can be a very efficient scorer. But he started shooting 3's and desperation shots to win.

Nash doesn't even guard good PG's....the Suns hide him on D.

That's not what I want in my star PG.

Quiet as kept I'd be mad if I'm Grant Hill...old as hell and has to guard young athletic points because my HOF PG can't.

That's what gets me about Nash fans...it's all OFFENSE OFFENSE OFFENSE.

We saw that play out. They were great in the regular season, but they sucked as a team because they stuck no d and jacked up shots.

[Go Getter]

48 pt game, a 34 pt triple double and a 39 point near triple double :bowdown:

ps: i understand rose needs more help on the offensive end but some are acting like that's all that matters when chicago has a very good defensive/rebounding team. i just think rose could be a more pure PG but yes, i get it, he needs more help and he's still young
Now post the stats of TP straight up DESTROYING him in the playoffs.

[Go Getter]

Nash last year before his hip injury was a better player than Rose.
:oldlol:


That shit crae.....

[BlackJoker23]

steve nash and it aint even close

[JMT]

Prime Nash? Rose isn't yet close.

But I think eventually he'll be better.

[GOBB]

I rank Steve Nash ahead of Derrick Rose today when I do my top PG list. Pretty much sums up my answer for this thread.

[Bigsmoke]

I rank Steve Nash ahead of Derrick Rose today when I do my top PG list. Pretty much sums up my answer for this thread.

Fucc outta here

[GOBB]

Fucc outta here

Better passer, playmaker, facilitator than Rose. You get the fucc outta here

[Deuce Bigalow]

Better passer, playmaker, facilitator than Rose. You get the fucc outta here
holy shit I just realized you have 46K posts

[greymatter]

Prime Nash over any incarnation of Rose.

Rose will never be able to elevate an entire team's scoring efficiency to anywhere close to the way Nash does. He simply doesn't have the court vision and IQ.

[Yung D-Will]

Now post the stats of TP straight up DESTROYING him in the playoffs.
And post stats of Rose playing horribly when a good defender was on him in the miami series..

Exactly





Your bs hate for Nash is just.

[Go Getter]

And post stats of Rose playing horribly when a good defender was on him in the miami series..

Exactly





Your bs hate for Nash is just.
It's not BS. I dislike his game.

And take my words into context please.

I already said that if you compare CAREERS that Rose doesn't stand a chance.

My point was people always list Nash's offensive numbers without looking to see how he got them.

They played no D and ran, ran, ran.....without winning and got Sunned by TP and the Spurs. You can't forget that when posting those stats.

We all know about Rose's poor shooting (and turnover) performances in the playoffs last year because it is fresh.

Right now, at this point in time, Rose is clearly better than Nash.

Nash would need a gun to guard Rose and Rose could do a good job of keeping with and bothering Nash. The team Nash is on has to have another player guard Rose which causes mismatch problems.

[Go Getter]

Better passer, playmaker, facilitator than Rose. You get the fucc outta here


That's three words that mean the same thing.

Rose is a better defender, penetrator, finisher, and rebounder.

[Go Getter]

Prime Nash over any incarnation of Rose.

Rose will never be able to elevate an entire team's scoring efficiency to anywhere close to the way Nash does. He simply doesn't have the court vision and IQ.


Who cares about court vision, IQ, and stats when you're losing?

The object is to win games.

The Suns were one of the best offensive teams ever which mean spit because they didn't win a championship.....and part of the blame falls on Nash because they adapted that style in large part due to him.

Dirk has enjoyed much success and has improved without Nash....so have a lot of players.....but when they play with Nash everyone wants to say that NASH made them better and not the countless hours in the gym and weight room.

[livingby3's]

a prime Derrick Rose will be better than a prime steve nash. nobody will doubt that.
but prime nash over current rose all day, and nash over rose when both careers are done. a PG who actually play with great bball IQ, court vision, shooting will succeed over one who excel mainly due to their speed and athleticism over a long career. with that said, curry's overall career will be better than rose's should there be no career ending injuries.

[Go Getter]

a prime Derrick Rose will be better than a prime steve nash. nobody will doubt that.
but prime nash over current rose all day, and nash over rose when both careers are done. a PG who actually play with great bball IQ, court vision, shooting will succeed over one who excel mainly due to their speed and athleticism over a long career. with that said, curry's overall career will be better than rose's should there be no career ending injuries.
Shaq can't shoot for shit and he was way better than Nash.

Posters overrate shooting so much.

And I agree that Nash has had a better career so far but if Rose leads the Bulls to a title along with his ROY, MVP, and shattering a couple of MJs records I think his career would be a lot better than Nash's.

[Bigsmoke]

That's three words that mean the same thing.

Rose is a better defender, penetrator, finisher, and rebounder.
Not only that, I think u can fit Rose into more systems than u could with Nash where he can only be super effective in a run and gun style of play. I really think that you can have a top 5 defense on the nba with Nash playing heavy minutes.

[GOBB]

That's three words that mean the same thing.

Its 3 words that make up the criteria for top PGs in the NBA. We're not ranking players and their overall game. We're ranking players at a specific position. Rose being a better defender, rebounder isnt that relevant because I want my PG first and foremost to be a distributor who has great vision, great ability passing the ball to teammates either setting them up for easy buckets or getting them the ball in spots to make scoring an easier job to do. I want a floor general, one who controls the team and is basically a coach on the floor. We have the coach on the sidelines, but it helps if your PG can be an extension of that. Steve Nash does these things better than Derrick Rose.

Thats what it is about. John Stockton never played defense like Gary Payton nor scored like Gary Payton. But he's argued as arguably the best PG in NBA history. So when Derrick Rose improves his PG skills then I'll rank him over Nash, Paul, Deron. Until then? He's behind them.

[GOBB]

Not only that, I think u can fit Rose into more systems than u could with Nash where he can only be super effective in a run and gun style of play. I really think that you can have a top 5 defense on the nba with Nash playing heavy minutes.

Thats moronic.

[chazzy]

They played no D and ran, ran, ran.....without winning

Who cares about court vision, IQ, and stats when you're losing?

The object is to win games.


And Rose is somehow a superior "winner?" He has intangibles we're not seeing?



The Suns were one of the best offensive teams ever which mean spit because they didn't win a championship....
Difference is, the Suns were one of the best offensive teams ever because of Nash. The Bulls were one of the better defensive teams of the last decade NOT because of Rose. The difference in their individual PG defense isn't enough to significantly change their team's overall defense, but the difference in their offense would. It's not like Nash was surrounded by good defenders and was holding the team back. Rose with a Diaw/Amare frontcourt would be a below average defensive team as well.

[DMAVS41]

And Rose is somehow a superior "winner?" He has intangibles we're not seeing?


Difference is, the Suns were one of the best offensive teams ever because of Nash. The Bulls were one of the better defensive teams ever NOT because of Rose. The difference in their individual PG defense isn't enough to significantly change their team's overall defense, but the difference in their offense would. It's not like Nash was surrounded by good defenders and was holding the team back. Rose with a Diaw/Amare frontcourt would be a below average defensive team as well.

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Rnbizzle]

And Rose is somehow a superior "winner?" He has intangibles we're not seeing?


Difference is, the Suns were one of the best offensive teams ever because of Nash. The Bulls were one of the better defensive teams ever NOT because of Rose. The difference in their individual PG defense isn't enough to significantly change their team's overall defense, but the difference in their offense would. It's not like Nash was surrounded by good defenders and was holding the team back. Rose with a Diaw/Amare frontcourt would be a below average defensive team as well.
If you can't see Rose's intangibles, you're blind.

[chazzy]

If you can't see Rose's intangibles, you're blind.
Enough to clearly make him classified as a superior winner over Nash?

[DMAVS41]

Enough to clearly make him classified as a superior winner over Nash?

Since when does Nash lack intangibles?

[Mr.JB]

For me, nash is the better PG and overall player, but I have to give it to Rose as a scorer

[JMT]

If you can't see Rose's intangibles, you're blind.

:roll:

Greatest. Post. Evah.

[Lebron23]

And Rose is somehow a superior "winner?" He has intangibles we're not seeing?


Difference is, the Suns were one of the best offensive teams ever because of Nash. The Bulls were one of the better defensive teams of the last decade NOT because of Rose. The difference in their individual PG defense isn't enough to significantly change their team's overall defense, but the difference in their offense would. It's not like Nash was surrounded by good defenders and was holding the team back. Rose with a Diaw/Amare frontcourt would be a below average defensive team as well.


Repped

[Go Getter]

And Rose is somehow a superior "winner?" He has intangibles we're not seeing?


Difference is, the Suns were one of the best offensive teams ever because of Nash. The Bulls were one of the better defensive teams of the last decade NOT because of Rose. The difference in their individual PG defense isn't enough to significantly change their team's overall defense, but the difference in their offense would. It's not like Nash was surrounded by good defenders and was holding the team back. Rose with a Diaw/Amare frontcourt would be a below average defensive team as well.


So who held the team together and led them when Noah and Boozer were hurt? Deng?

This bullshit story about a PGs d not being important is drivel.


It takes five guys to be a good defensive team.


If Nash was on the Bulls the opposite squad is going to go at Nash all night.

[RRR3]

So who held the team together and led them when Noah and Boozer were hurt? Deng?

This bullshit story about a PGs d not being important is drivel.


It takes five guys to be a good defensive team.


If Nash was on the Bulls the opposite squad is going to go at Nash all night.
You act as if Rose is a great defender.

[Go Getter]

Enough to clearly make him classified as a superior winner over Nash?
Not at all, but since Rose just led the Bulls to 62 wins and the ECF, which is about as much success Nash has enjoyed in about two decades Id say he has a great chance at being labeled a better winner than Nash.

[Go Getter]

You act as if Rose is a great defender.
Compared to Nash he's Mo Cheeks.


And I never insinuated Rose was a great defender, he's average and can be good at times but to me, Nash's defense is horrible, and I do not like making my 35+ year old SF guarding speedyPG because my star player can't guard his position.



My phone is tripping sorry for the typos.

[RRR3]

Compared to Nash he's Mo Cheeks.
Compared to Nash (in terms of Passing) he's Joel Anthony.

[Yung D-Will]

So who held the team together and led them when Noah and Boozer were hurt? Deng?

This bullshit story about a PGs d not being important is drivel.


It takes five guys to be a good defensive team.


If Nash was on the Bulls the opposite squad is going to go at Nash all night.
Right... And they'd still win much more games because of Nash than lose them because of his defense.

Boozer's numbers would be better than they were with D-Will, Nash would make Noah actually look like he has an offense game, Nash would throw Lobs to brewer and Set up Korver with easy shots ext. Not to mention when Nash has to score a lot like in 05 all of his 30+ points games are on amazing efficency. It's not the same for Rose.

Not a Knock on Rose but Nash is one the greatest to ever do it from his efficency to his shooting to his passing or his toughness.

[Yung D-Will]

The Gap between Nash's passing abilty and Rose's passing abilty make up for the gap between their defensive abilties and more.

Nash is a top 4 passer/playmaker of all time. Rose will never be close to that.

Just respect the all time great and leave this thread alone.

[upside24]

I'd take prime Nash. Give Nash a solid defensive team with good shooters and I think he can take them further than Rose. Nash just seems to get more production out of his teammates than Rose to me.

[Go Getter]

The Gap between Nash's passing abilty and Rose's passing abilty make up for the gap between their defensive abilties and more.

Nash is a top 4 passer/playmaker of all time. Rose will never be close to that.

Just respect the all time great and leave this thread alone.
I dont think he's an all time great. I dont like his game. Don't take offense man I'm not knocking you for your opinion, I just like defense, and defensive minded players.

It's all about opinion man no need to start requesting shit that you know damn well you can't control.

[Go Getter]

The Gap between Nash's passing abilty and Rose's passing abilty make up for the gap between their defensive abilties and more.

Nash is a top 4 passer/playmaker of all time. Rose will never be close to that.

Just respect the all time great and leave this thread alone.
Whatever man.


He's a great passer but also leads the league in passes stolen every year.


Rose averages 8 assists to Nashs what, 10? 11? What a gap!

[RRR3]

Whatever man.


He's a great passer but also leads the league in passes stolen every year.


Rose averages 8 assists to Nashs what, 10? 11? What a gap!
Assists=/=passing ability.

[Tinseltime17]

The only people taking current Rose over prime Nash are biased Bulls fans, Steve Nash haters, or a combination of both.


I dont think he's an all time great. I dont like his game. Don't take offense man I'm not knocking you for your opinion, I just like defense, and defensive minded players.

It's all about opinion man no need to start requesting shit that you know damn well you can't control.
Do you also understand that Rose also struggles on that end of the floor as well? I don't think I have seen a player get picked on for his defense as much as Nash does.

[Go Getter]

Assists=/=passing ability.
What about the number of passes stolen per year?


Tell me, is guarding your position important in basketball?


To me it is very important.


We blew the Suns out last year and Rose beasted but no one wonders why the all time great Nash doesn't guard Rose. No one knocks Nash for basically looking like a ***** while the best young pg in the league tore his team to shreds.


Again, Rose will have to have a lot of luck and work hard to have a career as good as Nash, but right now Rose is much better than him overall.

[Yung D-Will]

Whatever man.


He's a great passer but also leads the league in passes stolen every year.


Rose averages 8 assists to Nashs what, 10? 11? What a gap!
Assist =/ Passing abilty

Rose's assist averge is close to what Kidd's was on New Jersey and Kidd was light years ahead of Rose as a passer.

Nash is literally better in every aspect of passing. MUCH Better passer on the pick and roll, Much better passer on the fast break, much better passing after penetrating ext

[Go Getter]

The only people taking current Rose over prime Nash are biased Bulls fans, Steve Nash haters, or a combination of both.


Do you also understand that Rose also struggles on that end of the floor as well? I don't think I have seen a player get picked on for his defense as much as Nash does.
At least Rose guards his position. And he made real strides as far as d last year. He is clearly better than Nash on that end.

[Yung D-Will]

If you're talking about Current D-Rose being better than Current Nash then that's obvious. Nash's numbers might not be declining but his physical abilty especilly his speed has clearly.

[NumberSix]

Are we really gonna compare a guy who played well for 1 season the Steve Nash? Really?

[Go Getter]

Assist =/ Passing abilty

Rose's assist averge is close to what Kidd's was on New Jersey and Kidd was light years ahead of Rose as a passer.

Nash is literally better in every aspect of passing. MUCH Better passer on the pick and roll, Much better passer on the fast break, much better passing after penetrating ext
Rose is a much better defender, finisher, penetrator, rebounder, and is stronger, faster, quicker, more durable, and he is still learning. He's done everything Nash has done basically at 23.


Right now he is better than Nash.


I respect your right to think otherwise, I'm not hating.

[che guevara]

It's not BS. I dislike his game.

And take my words into context please.

I already said that if you compare CAREERS that Rose doesn't stand a chance.

My point was people always list Nash's offensive numbers without looking to see how he got them.

They played no D and ran, ran, ran.....without winning and got Sunned by TP and the Spurs. You can't forget that when posting those stats.

We all know about Rose's poor shooting (and turnover) performances in the playoffs last year because it is fresh.

Right now, at this point in time, Rose is clearly better than Nash.

Nash would need a gun to guard Rose and Rose could do a good job of keeping with and bothering Nash. The team Nash is on has to have another player guard Rose which causes mismatch problems.
Honestly, if you dislike Nash's game, I don't know if I can respect you as a basketball fan. That's nearly as bad as saying you dislike Magic/Bird's game.


And Rose is somehow a superior "winner?" He has intangibles we're not seeing?


Difference is, the Suns were one of the best offensive teams ever because of Nash. The Bulls were one of the better defensive teams of the last decade NOT because of Rose. The difference in their individual PG defense isn't enough to significantly change their team's overall defense, but the difference in their offense would. It's not like Nash was surrounded by good defenders and was holding the team back. Rose with a Diaw/Amare frontcourt would be a below average defensive team as well.
Summed it up well.

[Go Getter]

If you're talking about Current D-Rose being better than Current Nash then that's obvious. Nash's numbers might not be declining but his physical abilty especilly his speed has clearly.
Jesus man have you been comprehending me at all? I've said many times that Rose needs a lot of work to have a better career than Nash.


And again, you have to give Rose credit for coming in and being the man.....Nash had time to learn before he got the keys to a franchise.

[Yung D-Will]

Rose is a much better defender, finisher, penetrator, rebounder, and is stronger, faster, quicker, more durable, and he is still learning. He's done everything Nash has done basically at 23.


Right now he is better than Nash.


I respect your right to think otherwise, I'm not hating.
And Nash is a much much much much better shooter, Much much better playmaker, Much better at playing the pick and roll, much more efficent, Much better foul shooter, Much better at increasing the scoring on the people around him, And is were comparing Prime Nash to current Rose than Nash's clearly a better playoff performer cause he does what Rose does but with much more assist and much better efficency.

[Go Getter]

Honestly, if you dislike Nash's game, I don't know if I can respect you as a basketball fan. That's nearly as bad as saying you dislike Magic/Bird's game.


Summed it up well.
Who the **** cares? Your respect don't mean shit to me fool.

[Yung D-Will]

Jesus man have you been comprehending me at all? I've said many times that Rose needs a lot of work to have a better career than Nash.


And again, you have to give Rose credit for coming in and being the man.....Nash had time to learn before he got the keys to a franchise.
Nash played behind KJ and Kidd early in his career.... What star pg's was Rose competing with early in his career?

And after Nash got off that team he was on a team with Dirk. He didn't get the Keys cause he was on teams with stars at the time

[Go Getter]

And Nash is a much much much much better shooter, Much much better playmaker, Much better at playing the pick and roll, much more efficent, Much better foul shooter, Much better at increasing the scoring on the people around him, And is were comparing Prime Nash to current Rose than Nash's clearly a better playoff performer cause he does what Rose does but with much more assist and much better efficency.
It's about wins not pretty stats.


That's Roses style and Chicagos in a nutshell.


And Rose had two years shooting around 48%.....people took last year and the playoffs and now they label Rose as a chucker. Like I said......Rose didnt have thr luxury of learning under Kidd and relaxing as a young player like Nash.

[Go Getter]

Nash played behind KJ and Kidd early in his career.... What star pg's was Rose competing with early in his career?

And after Nash got off that team he was on a team with Dirk. He didn't get the Keys cause he was on teams with stars at the time
He got the keys with the Mavs.


What I said about their circumstances was a fact, not a knock on Nash, who knows what would have happened if he got burn early in his career.


Stop trying to defend and justify man and just accept the fact that I personally don't like his game.



Too offense heavy.

[Yung D-Will]

It's about wins not pretty stats.


That's Roses style and Chicagos in a nutshell.


And Rose had two years shooting around 48%.....people took last year and the playoffs and now they label Rose as a chucker. Like I said......Rose didnt have thr luxury of learning under Kidd and relaxing as a young player like Nash.
And Nash has provided wins wherever he's gone.

I'm not really understanding this.

You can't use the argument that Rose accomplished more than Nash at his age than talk about how Rose didn't have two vet pg's to mentor him considering Rose got to be the man early on because he didn't have to compete with those pg's like Nash had to early in his career.

[Hater]

Lol. Don't bother arguing with Go Getter. In any argument he picks the black guy. He's your typical ignorant uneducated black kid that cries about racism but is a racist himself.

[Yung D-Will]

I Dislike many people's games that doesn't mean I can't rate them fairly. Just because Kobe doesn't play the game the way I think it should be played doesn't mean I can deny that he's been good enough to be a top 10 player.

[Go Getter]

I Dislike many people's games that doesn't mean I can't rate them fairly. Just because Kobe doesn't play the game the way I think it should be played doesn't mean I can deny that he's been good enough to be a top 10 player.
My ratings are mine. It's like taste in music. I don't see why everyone is all butt hurt. I said right now Rose is better than Nash and who knows who will have the better prime.


I don't see that as being outlandish but if you do then It's cool with me.


Lol at me being racist. I played HS ball in IN against white guys that were way better than me and a lot of which had games that I admire. I rate Bird above Lebron, I patterned my shot after Mark Price, and I play and coach a fundamental game. To add to that some of my favorite all-time players are Bird, Chambers, Paxson, Laimbeer, Kukoc, Kerr, Price, Stockton, etc, etc).


I just feel like defense is the most important part of basketball and Nash is one of the worst defenders I've seen (as far as star PGs go).

[Go Getter]

Lol. Don't bother arguing with Go Getter. In any argument he picks the black guy. He's your typical ignorant uneducated black kid that cries about racism but is a racist himself.
And you figured this out after 56 posts.....you sir, are a marvel.

[Jyap9675]

I just feel like defense is the most important part of basketball and Nash is one of the worst defenders I've seen (as far as star PGs go).

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/813678-nba-power-rankings-defensively-ranking-every-starting-point-guard-in-the-nba/page/28

Ranked 7th out of the 30 starting point guards defensively. Please stop blowing nash's defense out of proportion. He is not the best defender out there, but he can certainly defend.



It's about wins not pretty stats.


Who cares about court vision, IQ, and stats when you're losing?

The object is to win games.

Yep those skills dont really mean much hey?

Phoenix Suns since Nash Came. Before Nash, Suns were last in the playoffs since 2001.

2004-2005 (Nash era)

62-20 record, Western Conference Finals

"This feat was made possible by the off-season unrestricted FA signing of All-Star point guard Steve Nash from Dallas"

2005-2006

Western Conference Finals

2006-2007

Western Conference Semifinals

2007-2008

First Round Playoffs

2009-2010

Western Conference Finals


Rose is a better defender, penetrator, finisher, and rebounder.

Yep so? Nash can do those too but does not mean that he cant do those AT ALL. Basketball is a team game, Lebron is certainly more athletic and talented than Terry but mavs still won. This is what people love about nash, he doesnt rely on athlecism too much, he brings the best out of his team mates and provides an efficient teamwork environment, which is what basketball is all about.

Again not saying that Rose can not do this, but nash is just more efficient in doing so.

[Go Getter]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/813678-nba-power-rankings-defensively-ranking-every-starting-point-guard-in-the-nba/page/28

Ranked 7th out of the 30 starting point guards defensively. Please stop blowing nash's defense out of proportion. He is not the best defender out there, but he can certainly defend.






Yep those skills dont really mean much hey?

Phoenix Suns since Nash Came. Before Nash, Suns were last in the playoffs since 2001.

2004-2005 (Nash era)

62-20 record, Western Conference Finals

"This feat was made possible by the off-season unrestricted FA signing of All-Star point guard Steve Nash from Dallas"

2005-2006

Western Conference Finals

2006-2007

Western Conference Semifinals

2007-2008

First Round Playoffs

2009-2010

Western Conference Finals



Yep so? Nash can do those too but does not mean that he cant do those AT ALL. Basketball is a team game, Lebron is certainly more athletic and talented than Terry but mavs still won. This is what people love about nash, he doesnt rely on athlecism too much, he brings the best out of his team mates and provides an efficient teamwork environment, which is what basketball is all about.

Again not saying that Rose can not do this, but nash is just more efficient in doing so.

Why is Derrick Rose knocked because he's physically gifted while Nash gets props for not being athletic? Vision, "anticipation or feel", and hand-eye coordination, and the ability to endure the pain it takes to get to that level are god given physical gifts as well. That's why I hate it when people act like Nash is all skill and little talent.

Derrick is a great teammates and he turned the Bulls around. He didn't over take anyone like Kidd or KJ but he made Hinrich, a really solid pro, and Ben Gordon, who was, at the time a pretty prolific scorer, expendable.

Our whole team philosophy turned around and we won 62 games playing defensive ball.


Grind it out, tough D, good ball movement, and stifle them in the fourth quarter.


People turn to his worst time, last years playoffs, and it was, by all accounts even his was a bad performance. But if you look back at his whole career it looks like D. Rose is a cut above Nash. Nash also has a better efficiency than Magic, Oscar, and Zeke.


Do I have to be hating to say that his efficiency stats don't make him better than those players?

[themurph]

Lol. Don't bother arguing with Go Getter. In any argument he picks the black guy. He's your typical ignorant uneducated black kid that cries about racism but is a racist himself.


What kind of bullsh#t is this????^^^^^^^

Keep that FOX-fueled garbage to yourself....

[IGotACoolStory]

Prime Magic against Current Iverson is what you are basically asking.

So Rose.

[Tenchi Ryu]

What kind of bullsh#t is this????^^^^^^^

Keep that FOX-fueled garbage to yourself....
:applause: :applause:

[Jyap9675]

Why is Derrick Rose knocked because he's physically gifted while Nash gets props for not being athletic?

Dude noone is saying that derrick rose is being knocked back because of his athletic ability. Nash is getting the props of being able to create an efficient team due to his playmaking ability. As a matter of fact I love watching Rose' athletic dunks, but that is it really. Also, dont forget that you lose athlecism as you age, and what is rose going to have? another steve francis?


That's why I hate it when people act like Nash is all skill and little talent.

Nash is all skill and talent.


Derrick is a great teammates and he turned the Bulls around. He didn't over take anyone like Kidd or KJ but he made Hinrich, a really solid pro, and Ben Gordon, who was, at the time a pretty prolific scorer, expendable.

although I do not know the validity of this but nevertheless, good on him if this is the case.



Our whole team philosophy turned around and we won 62 games playing defensive ball.


Grind it out, tough D, good ball movement, and stifle them in the fourth quarter.



They played no D and ran, ran, ran.....without winning

That is great but please dont disrespect and disregard the way other teams play. The way suns played basketball led to numerous playoff wins, WCFs etc. People , fans, players, coaches have different preferences.



People turn to his worst time, last years playoffs, and it was, by all accounts even his was a bad performance. But if you look back at his whole career it looks like D. Rose is a cut above Nash. Nash also has a better efficiency than Magic, Oscar, and Zeke.


I already said that if you compare CAREERS that Rose doesn't stand a chance.

Lol I really dont get where you stand here.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-GreatestPointGuards
Oh and these idiots at ESPN also regard Nash as one of top 10 Point guards. What the hell are they thinking??? :banghead:

And Magic, Kidd is ranked higher than Nash and I totally agree.


Do I have to be hating to say that his efficiency stats don't make him better than those players?

Alright lets do it,

PPG/APG/RPG/Steals

2006 Regular
Prime Nash - 18.6/11.6/3.5/0.8
3P% 45.5% FG% 53.2%

Playoffs 2005
23.9/11.3/4.8/0.9
3P% 38.9% FG 52%

Rose

2010
25.0/7.7/4.1/1.05
3P% 33.2% FG% 44.%

Playoffs 2010
27.1/7.7/4.3/1.4
3P% 24.8% FG% 39.6%

Playoffs 2009
26.8/7.2/3.4/0.8
3P% 33.3% FG% 45.6%

source NBA.com, wikipedia.org

Imo Rose should not be compared to nash, should be compared to francis, iverson, westbrook. Same type of player.

[D.J.]

At this point, it's still Nash. Rose is the better defender(though that's not saying much), but he has to at least get his team to the Finals or multiple trips to the Conference Finals. Or at least multiple 60+ win seasons.

[knicksman]

My ratings are mine. It's like taste in music. I don't see why everyone is all butt hurt. I said right now Rose is better than Nash and who knows who will have the better prime.


I don't see that as being outlandish but if you do then It's cool with me.


Lol at me being racist. I played HS ball in IN against white guys that were way better than me and a lot of which had games that I admire. I rate Bird above Lebron, I patterned my shot after Mark Price, and I play and coach a fundamental game. To add to that some of my favorite all-time players are Bird, Chambers, Paxson, Laimbeer, Kukoc, Kerr, Price, Stockton, etc, etc).


I just feel like defense is the most important part of basketball and Nash is one of the worst defenders I've seen (as far as star PGs go).

LMAO at believing that defense is more important than offense.

This is what players want to do

1. Become a scorer or superstar
2. BEcome playmaker if they cant become a scorer
3. Become a defender if they cant become a playmaker/scorer. Or otherwise dirty worker.

Thats the hierarchy of what players want.

"Offense wins games but defense wins championships" should be interpreted like "talent wins games but teamwork wins championships".

It just means that you build around talent or offense then surround them defense or forced your talented players to play as a team. It doesnt mean that all you need is teamwork or defense. TEamwork is useless without talent just like defense without offense is useless. Besides detroit which is the exception, no team has won without talent(superstar). The same with offense. You build through offense. Thats why you build around offensive players like dirk and not on defensive players like ben wallace. If rose didnt break out which is your offensive player, your team would suck just like the skiles team. Thats why your team sucks for years despite being gifted lots of number 1 picks because your FO doesnt know how to build a team. Your FO believe that you build through defense.

Defense is for no talent players. Because they dont have the talent to play offense, they now decided to be dirty workers. Its like a janitors job(dirty work). Everybody can be a janitor but nobody wants to be a janitor. Or everybody can be a defender but nobody wants to be a defender. Most players want to be superstars or scorers.

[D-Wade316]

Rose is not a winner, Go Getter. Period.

Nash.

[Go Getter]

Rose is not a winner, Go Getter. Period.

Nash.
:oldlol:

[Go Getter]

LMAO at believing that defense is more important than offense.

This is what players want to do

1. Become a scorer or superstar
2. BEcome playmaker if they cant become a scorer
3. Become a defender if they cant become a playmaker/scorer. Or otherwise dirty worker.

Thats the hierarchy of what players want.

"Offense wins games but defense wins championships" should be interpreted like "talent wins games but teamwork wins championships".

It just means that you build around talent or offense then surround them defense or forced your talented players to play as a team. It doesnt mean that all you need is teamwork or defense. TEamwork is useless without talent just like defense without offense is useless. Besides detroit which is the exception, no team has won without talent(superstar). The same with offense. You build through offense. Thats why you build around offensive players like dirk and not on defensive players like ben wallace. If rose didnt break out which is your offensive player, your team would suck just like the skiles team. Thats why your team sucks for years despite being gifted lots of number 1 picks because your FO doesnt know how to build a team. Your FO believe that you build through defense.

Defense is for no talent players. Because they dont have the talent to play offense, they now decided to be dirty workers. Its like a janitors job(dirty work). Everybody can be a janitor but nobody wants to be a janitor. Or everybody can be a defender but nobody wants to be a defender. Most players want to be superstars or scorers.
Stopped reading right there.

[I.R.Beast]

i wouldnt take any version of nash over Rose...Nash is one of the mosre overrated players historically. He thrived in a run and gun offense that played little to no defense that gave him a crap load of possessions.

Nash teammates made him, not the other way around. Floor spacing makes the play more than the pass does. Nash used to circle th court until his player made avenue for him to pass the ball. Haad rose played with theplayer nash played with sunds would have had rings already.

[knicksman]

i wouldnt take any version of nash over Rose...Nash is one of the mosre overrated players historically. He thrived in a run and gun offense that played little to no defense that gave him a crap load of possessions.

Nash teammates made him, not the other way around. Floor spacing makes the play more than the pass does. Nash used to circle th court until his player made avenue for him to pass the ball. Haad rose played with theplayer nash played with sunds would have had rings already.


I think rose teammates will suck just like boozer. Thats why bogans sucked too because rose hogs the ball too much

[knicksman]

Stopped reading right there.

u mad. Your team will end up like the sixers. Sucks in the next few years and who knows maybe it will start next season. Maybe your team will be just 4th in the east.

[creepingdeath]

Nash last year before his hip injury was a better player than Rose.
/thread
Oh the irony of people picking Rose.. So Rose does everything his team needs in order to win, but Nash doesn't and merely pads his stats? Where is the proof of that? What did Rose even achieve that Nash did not? DR has a LONG way to go to even be in the same discussion... Not trying to discredit Rose, he is a 23 years old young man who just came off an MVP season. But that still doesn't mean that Nash is no leader, and doesn't possess intangibles and the heart of a lion.

[themurph]

LMAO at believing that defense is more important than offense.

This is what players want to do

1. Become a scorer or superstar
2. BEcome playmaker if they cant become a scorer
3. Become a defender if they cant become a playmaker/scorer. Or otherwise dirty worker.

Thats the hierarchy of what players want.

"Offense wins games but defense wins championships" should be interpreted like "talent wins games but teamwork wins championships".

It just means that you build around talent or offense then surround them defense or forced your talented players to play as a team. It doesnt mean that all you need is teamwork or defense. TEamwork is useless without talent just like defense without offense is useless. Besides detroit which is the exception, no team has won without talent(superstar). The same with offense. You build through offense. Thats why you build around offensive players like dirk and not on defensive players like ben wallace. If rose didnt break out which is your offensive player, your team would suck just like the skiles team. Thats why your team sucks for years despite being gifted lots of number 1 picks because your FO doesnt know how to build a team. Your FO believe that you build through defense.

Defense is for no talent players. Because they dont have the talent to play offense, they now decided to be dirty workers. Its like a janitors job(dirty work). Everybody can be a janitor but nobody wants to be a janitor. Or everybody can be a defender but nobody wants to be a defender. Most players want to be superstars or scorers.

Defense doesn't mean sh*t, huh? Spoken like a true Knicks fan....

[GOBB]

Imo Rose should not be compared to nash, should be compared to francis, iverson, westbrook. Same type of player.

Not Iverson. :no:

[Rnbizzle]

Not Iverson. :no:
Why exactly not..?

[GOBB]

Why exactly not..?

Derrick Rose just got pubes last season. He has a ways to go before we start the Iverson vs Rose threads.

[Bigsmoke]

Nash last year before his hip injury was a better player than Rose.

i normally agree with what u post here but 2011 was Rose' year.

[Kiarip]

Derrick Rose just got pubes last season. He has a ways to go before we start the Iverson vs Rose threads.

Well we're already having Rose vs Nash threads, so prepare yourself lmao...



Honestly there's no comparison. Rose plays MARGINALLY better defense. He's a better single possession defender... maybe, but he doesn't commit on defense so you can't argue that he's a better defender.

Rose wouldn't be able to guard a prime Tony Parker too well either, since he doesn't commit... In fact the Bulls are a better defensive team when Rose isn't on the court.

So the defense is a really really weak argument.

Then you compare their passing abilities and there's no comparison. What's funny is that Rose is on the Bulls to provide some type of scoring, because that team is so based around defense, but the Bulls would probably have higher total PPG if he was replaced with Nash.

[stallionaire]

Nash shits on rose all day. Rose is an insult to the PG position.

[rule1223]

Defense doesn't mean sh*t, huh? Spoken like a true Knicks fan....
^this, kevin love against the offensive stud amare
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GayiPD9Ygwc

[PejaNowitzki]

A shooting guard playing point guard or a point guard playing the point guard position? It all depends on what your team needs. I do think that Nash is the better all-around player. He can make the most difficult passes, make crazy, off-balance circus shots, hit from anywhere on the court, he's got tremendous basketball IQ and leadership. On the other hand, Rose is the more explosive player, he can score points in huge bunches, can be dominant at times, but he's also more "up and down", you'll get great performances, and then you'll get whatever that was he put forth during the playoffs last year.

Nash is more consistent, he will usually have a solid game, make all the right decisions and give your team a shot to win. You can't really go wrong with either guy but if you have other scorers on the team, then I would choose Nash every single time.

[dirk94_]

Nash with them broken noses tho...

I got to go with D rose though not trying to disrespect Steve.

[poster]

nash cant gaurd rose, rose way too athletic

[verylegit]

A shooting guard playing point guard or a point guard playing the point guard position? It all depends on what your team needs. I do think that Nash is the better all-around player. He can make the most difficult passes, make crazy, off-balance circus shots, hit from anywhere on the court, he's got tremendous basketball IQ and leadership. On the other hand, Rose is the more explosive player, he can score points in huge bunches, can be dominant at times, but he's also more "up and down", you'll get great performances, and then you'll get whatever that was he put forth during the playoffs last year.

Nash is more consistent, he will usually have a solid game, make all the right decisions and give your team a shot to win. You can't really go wrong with either guy but if you have other scorers on the team, then I would choose Nash every single time.
good description, pretty accurate.

although most people don't realize nash can put up some BIG numbers if he wants to. he's unselfish and a real pg so he's inclined to set up his guys to score and whatnot but just as you said, he can knock it down from anywhere and his shot is seemingly perfect. i'll take nash over d rose, he will create all the right opportunities for his teammates. i'm not very fond of hybrid guards, though i like rose very much.