Better overall team: Clippers or Knicks?

[hawkfan]

Better overall team: Clippers or Knicks?

[AI3Anthony]

I honestly like the Knicks better. I just think they are really well balanced with talent and solid role players. I think the lack of Clipper depth may catch up to them.

[Clippersfan86]

I honestly like the Knicks better. I just think they are really well balanced with talent and solid role players. I think the lack of Clipper depth may catch up to them.

Clippers have a lot more depth than the Knicks. Randy Foye and Mo Williams are starters on some teams. Knicks don't have a single bench player that would be an NBA level starter.

I think Clippers have a slight edge. Less holes in starting 5.. and a little extra depth. In terms of how successful they will be.. I think it will be similar.

Chris Paul
Chauncey Billups
Caron Butler
Blake Griffin
DeAndre Jordan

Key reserves: Mo Williams, Randy Foye, Trey Thompkins, Reggie Evans


VS

Baron Davis
Landry Fields
Carmelo Anthony
Amare Stoudemire
Tyson Chandler

Key reserves: Tony Douglas, Mike Bibby, Iman Shumpert, Jared Jeffries

[brownmamba00]

The Knicks.

Amare & Chandler>>Blake&Jordan
Melo and CP3 cancel eachother out imo.

[Clippersfan86]

The Knicks.

Amare & Chandler>>Blake&Jordan
Melo and CP3 cancel eachother out imo.

Woah.. you think Melo= CP3? I think Amare+Chandler is equal to Griffin+Jordan, not better. These PF/C combos are as close as it gets. Neither have a clear edge IMO. Although I think Griffin is going to explode this year and become the best PF in the game.

[AI3Anthony]

Clippers have a lot more depth than the Knicks. Randy Foye and Mo Williams are starters on some teams. Knicks don't have a single bench player that would be an NBA level starter.

I think Clippers have a slight edge. Less holes in starting 5.. and a little extra depth. In terms of how successful they will be.. I think it will be similar.

I just think the Knicks are going to gel very nicely. I like the way Melo and Amare played together last year in the short time they had together. Now Amare can slide over and play his natural position and Chanlder can be the big. Melo is arguably the best scorer in the NBA. I don't know it's just my opinion.

But, don't get me wrong. I'm very excited to see this years Clippers play. CP3 is my second favorite player and I love the move he made to LA. I think CP3 brings to the Clips exactly what they needed and exactly what Blake Griffin needed to make that next huge step in his game. They are going to be scary this year and awesome to watch.

[kurple]

Pretty even, but Clippers have more dept.

But the Knicks players are more proven. Jordan have not done anything for people to view him as the same defensive power as Chandler (even if I think he is overrated)

[AI3Anthony]

Woah.. you think Melo= CP3? I think Amare+Chandler is equal to Griffin+Jordan, not better. These PF/C combos are as close as it gets. Neither have a clear edge IMO. Although I think Griffin is going to explode this year and become the best PF in the game.

I agree. Blake Griffins is going to put up the same numbers Amare does. Amare just has a great jump shot that may give him a little edge over Blake at this point in his career. Then Tyson and Jordan are basically the same guy. Athletically talented 7 footers who are good defensively and catch the oop and know how to finish around the bucket. Definitely equal here.

[ThatsGame]

I think it's pretty much a wash.

[NugzFan]

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll59/MeekOneGOP/EatingPopcorn.gif

[FourthTenor]

Its the Clippers.

The best two players (cp3 and griffin) are on the clips. Amare and melo are redundant. Baron shoots bricks. Chandler is nice but the mavs helped him by playing good team defense too, which nyk wont do.

Clippers are smarter and more complete, more athletic. I gaurantee theyll stomp the Knicks. They already outplayed the Lakers twice. Preseason or not, both teams were playin hard and the Clips looked better. Theyre def better than the knix

[brownmamba00]

Woah.. you think Melo= CP3? I think Amare+Chandler is equal to Griffin+Jordan, not better. These PF/C combos are as close as it gets. Neither have a clear edge IMO. Although I think Griffin is going to explode this year and become the best PF in the game.
Yeah pretty much. They both have their pro's and cons. I don't think CP3 is THAT much better then Melo. Melo still is arguably the best scorer & the most clutch player (along Dirk and Kobe) in the L.

And Chandler&Amare>Griffin&Jordan. Amare has the edge on Griffin and Chandler is just a better player then Jordan.

[Clippersfan86]

One reason I consider it a wash is because Clippers have a ton of injury prone players and haven't had the same amount of time to build chemistry. If we are talking about on paper though... both squads fully healthy... gotta be Clips.

I think both teams will tear up the league this year.

[AI3Anthony]

This would be an exciting finals match up

[Clippersfan86]

Yeah pretty much. They both have their pro's and cons. I don't think CP3 is THAT much better then Melo. Melo still is arguably the best scorer & the most clutch player (along Dirk and Kobe) in the L.

And Chandler&Amare>Griffin&Jordan. Amare has the edge on Griffin and Chandler is just a better player then Jordan.

Guess who's right behind Melo the last 5 years in crunch time stats? Like literally right on his as*? CHRIS PAUL. Melo doesn't have a discernible edge when it comes to clutch. In fact the Hornets have been the top crunch time performing team for 5 years, Chris Paul's entire career.

I think CP3 is significantly better than Melo. I'm not being bias either guys... I ranked CP3 the 4th best player like 3 months ago when ESPN made that big list and we all predicted the top 5 slots. Melo is nowhere near top 5.

[kurple]

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll59/MeekOneGOP/EatingPopcorn.gif
:oldlol:

[chips93]

Then Tyson and Jordan are basically the same guy. Athletically talented 7 footers who are good defensively and catch the oop and know how to finish around the bucket. Definitely equal here.


you seriously think tyson = deandre?

DJ has yet to play in a single game that matters in his entire career.

ill wait to see if he can actually perform in a big game before saying hes equal to chandler.

chandler anchored their defense, slowed down lebron, and covered up for dirks defense.

jordan, thus far, has blocked some shots, and made some 'holy shit' kinda plays. thats it. he hasnt proven anything yet

tyson, on the other hand, is a proven commodity.

[Clippersfan86]

you seriously think tyson = deandre?

DJ has yet to play in a single game that matters in his entire career.

ill wait to see if he can actually perform in a big game before saying hes equal to chandler.

chandler anchored their defense, slowed down lebron, and covered up for dirks defense.

jordan, thus far, has blocked some shots, and made some 'holy shit' kinda plays. thats it. he hasnt proven anything yet

tyson, on the other hand, is a proven commodity.

So you have to have played in the finals or won a ring to be considered a great defensive big? Nothing statistically besides efficiency shows Tyson is on some Godly level compared to DJ. Not to mention DJ has made significant strides this summer where as Tyson is maxed out obviously.

You also didn't factor in now that DJ is playing with CP3.. the same guy that really put Chandler over the top. Tyson doesn't block or alter shots like DJ but he's a better man defender, rebounder. He also plays more minutes.

I believe the OP wants a prediction going forward... not an analysis of the teams last year. He can correct me if I'm wrong.

[NuggetsFan]

Wait did somebody say Chris Paul is more clutch than Melo? :lol

[Clippersfan86]

Wait did somebody say Chris Paul is more clutch than Melo? :lol

Nope. He's 2nd right behind Melo on crunch time stats last 5 years. I'm saying... CP3 is clearly better than Melo and it's not close to enough to where Melo's small clutch edge is going to make that up. Hornets were tops in crunch time stats in the entire CP3 era.

Somebody said Melo and CP3 are equals.

[GOBB]

Nope. He's 2nd right behind Melo on crunch time stats last 5 years. I'm saying... CP3 is clearly better than Melo and it's not close to enough to where Melo's small clutch edge is going to make that up. Hornets were tops in crunch time stats in the entire CP3 era.

He's not clearly better than Carmelo Anthony.

[kurple]

I would rather have CP on my team and I think everyone would (not counting team needs), but Melo is more clutch (best in the game)..

I know you agreed on that, just sayin.

[NuggetsFan]

Nope. He's 2nd right behind Melo on crunch time stats last 5 years. I'm saying... CP3 is clearly better than Melo and it's not close to enough to where Melo's small clutch edge is going to make that up. Hornets were tops in crunch time stats in the entire CP3 era.

Somebody said Melo and CP3 are equals.

CP3 healthy is better than Melo, I would agree. In terms of being clutch tho, ain't close. Melo's ELITE in that area. You could arguably say he's the best player in the L in terms of taking that last second shot because of his versatility.

[AirTupac]

He's not clearly better than Carmelo Anthony.

This.

[Clippersfan86]

He's not clearly better than Carmelo Anthony.

ESPN and Slam ranked them about what 8 spots apart? I'd say it's a pretty safe bet to say CP3 is clearly better than Melo. Anybody who watches a lot of basketball would NEVER say Melo is as good or almost as good as CP3. One is a bonafide superstar, top 5 player.. the other is out of the top 10 on most peoples lists.

[Clippersfan86]

CP3 healthy is better than Melo, I would agree. In terms of being clutch tho, ain't close. Melo's ELITE in that area. You could arguably say he's the best player in the L in terms of taking that last second shot because of his versatility.

Melo's more clutch. We aren't disagreeing. You go look for yourself at crunch time stats over the last 5 years and you'll notice the Hornets were tops in the league led by CP3 as a team... and CP3 was ranked 2nd after Melo. Numbers support my claims.

[ThatsGame]

Melo is more clutch, CP3 is much better overall. The stats don't lie, look it up. 82games

[kurple]

ESPN and Slam ranked them about what 8 spots apart? I'd say it's a pretty safe bet to say CP3 is clearly better than Melo. Anybody who watches a lot of basketball would NEVER say Melo is as good or almost as good as CP3. One is a bonafide superstar, top 5 player.. the other is out of the top 10 on most peoples lists.
melo is top 10, come on

[GOBB]

ESPN and Slam ranked them about what 8 spots apart? I'd say it's a pretty safe bet to say CP3 is clearly better than Melo. Anybody who watches a lot of basketball would NEVER say Melo is as good or almost as good as CP3. One is a bonafide superstar, top 5 player.. the other is out of the top 10 on most peoples lists.

Anyone who watches a lot of basketball would NEVER use ESPN and SLAM player rankings either. So which one are you again? :confusedshrug:

And whats in bold is a classic example of you once again overrating a Clipper.

[Clippersfan86]

melo is top 10, come on

If he's top 10.. it's the 9 or 10 spot. Never in my life did I think people would say Melo is equal to or right behind CP3. :facepalm . Even with one bad leg.. CP3 was a better player than Melo the year he played 45 games.

[chips93]

So you have to have played in the finals or won a ring to be considered a great defensive big? Nothing statistically besides efficiency shows Tyson is on some Godly level compared to DJ. Not to mention DJ has made significant strides this summer where as Tyson is maxed out obviously.

You also didn't factor in now that DJ is playing with CP3.. the same guy that really put Chandler over the top. Tyson doesn't block or alter shots like DJ but he's a better man defender, rebounder. He also plays more minutes.

I believe the OP wants a prediction going forward... not an analysis of the teams last year. He can correct me if I'm wrong.

bolded is entirely speculation.

im saying jordan has to produce in a game that matters before i can say hes as good as chandler.

i dont think thats too much to ask. play well in a big game, then i can take him more seriously, but for the time being, the guy who has produced at the highest level (chandler) is clearly the better player.

[AirTupac]

GOBB is right. CP3 isn't CLEARLY better than Melo. He's better than him but it's not that big of a difference as you make it out to be.

[Clippersfan86]

Anyone who watches a lot of basketball would NEVER use ESPN and SLAM player rankings either. So which one are you again? :confusedshrug:

And whats in bold is a classic example of you once again overrating a Clipper.

Don't be a retard. Read my fu**ing threads about CP3 from before he was a Clipper. Want me to pull them up right now? The reason I cited ESPN+Slam was because Melo played for a team that got far more attention both with Denver and the Knicks yet even the majority of fans and analysts who watched the Hornets less gave CP3 the edge.

I'll go ahead and start bumping threads of my pre Clippers CP3 talk if you guys want to play hardball and paint it like I'm just saying CP3 because he's a Clipper :facepalm .

[kurple]

I have no idea how you got 7 green bars


Are there even that many clippers fans on ISH

[Clippersfan86]

GOBB is right. CP3 isn't CLEARLY better than Melo. He's better than him but it's not that big of a difference as you make it out to be.

There is a smaller difference between their clutch game.. than the edge Chris Paul has as an all around player to Melo.

[GOBB]

GOBB is right. CP3 isn't CLEARLY better than Melo. He's better than him but it's not that big of a difference as you make it out to be.

Yup, but hey let somene say Amare is clearly better than Blake Griffin. Kid will start to...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8pTmuDLwbY&feature=related

:rolleyes:

[NuggetsFan]

Chris Paul would be in the 3-6 range depending on healthy\opinion. Melo's in that 6-10 range. Difference? Yes. Alot closer than say Jordan and Chandler tho.

Both are better than Blake :lol

[knicksman]

cp3. first round exit and never made it to the conference finals and missed the playoffs in his first 2 seasons while melo made it to the conference finals and never missed in the playoffs and yet cp3 is considered better. Damn pgs are so overrated and worse is pgs/big combo hasnt won since isiah while most duos that wins is big/wing.

[Clippersfan86]

TS%= CP3
PER= CP3 (significant margin)
Offensive rating= CP3 (Huge margin)
Defensive rating= CP3 (Huge margin)
Win Shares= CP3 (Huge margin)

Playoff stats of 2010-2011

CP3: 22 ppg, 11.5 apg, 6.7 rpg, 3 spg

Melo: 26 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 4.8 apg, 1.7 spg


I'm still looking for what way Melo is better. There wasn't a single metric I could find that gave him an edge. He gets creamed in all around raw stats, efficiency, impact, playoff performances.

[Clippersfan86]

Chris Paul would be in the 3-6 range depending on healthy\opinion. Melo's in that 6-10 range. Difference? Yes. Alot closer than say Jordan and Chandler tho.

Both are better than Blake :lol

I guess we'll see this year.

[brownmamba00]

ESPN and Slam ranked them about what 8 spots apart? I'd say it's a pretty safe bet to say CP3 is clearly better than Melo. Anybody who watches a lot of basketball would NEVER say Melo is as good or almost as good as CP3. One is a bonafide superstar, top 5 player.. the other is out of the top 10 on most peoples lists.
Since when is CP3 a top 5 player?:roll:

off the top of my head; Dirk, Wade, Bron, Kobe, Dwight.

CP3 is just like Melo a top 10 player.

[Clippersfan86]

Since when is CP3 a top 5 player?:roll:

off the top of my head; Dirk, Wade, Bron, Kobe, Dwight, Kevin Durant.

CP3 is just like Melo a top 10 player.

You're allowed to have that opinion. I personally feel he's the 4th best player in the game after Lebron, Dwight and Wade. This is what's great about forums. People have to answer for what they predict/boldly proclaim once the year plays out. Soon enough people will be either embarrassed or vindicated based on the stuff they talk, including me. I'm excited as hell for people to see that I'm not crazy.

[kurple]

CP is better than Kobe now..

[brownmamba00]

Somebody said Melo and CP3 are equals.
I never said this:hammerhead: I said they both kinda cancelled eachother out, and that CP3 isn't THAT much better then Melo. CP3 is better but I can see the argument for Melo.

[Clippersfan86]

I never said this:hammerhead: I said they both kinda cancelled eachother out, and that CP3 isn't THAT much better then Melo.

How do two players cancel each other out at different positions? CP3 impacts the game a lot more, in more ways than Melo.. so I didn't understand what you meant :confusedshrug: . I think Griffin is going to seriously put the hurt on the league this year and surprise the sh** out of people. I know many people doubt that but if the guy is dominating people are gonna recognize.

[Clippersfan86]

Either way we are getting so off topic lol. I hope Knicks do well this year... and obviously I hope the same for the Paper Clips. I think both teams will have similar success. Both have to prove themselves.

[knicksman]

You're allowed to have that opinion. I personally feel he's the 4th best player in the game after Lebron, Dwight and Wade.

LOOks like you erased the part where melo is overrated

To reiterate

Melo to cp3

cp3. first round exit and never made it to the conference finals and missed the playoffs in his first 2 seasons while melo made it to the conference finals and never missed in the playoffs and yet cp3 is considered better. Damn pgs are so overrated and worse is pgs/big combo hasnt won since isiah while most duos that wins is big/wing.

Melo to lebron
number of contending teams before miami
melo-2 times contender coz they were 2nd in the west in 2010 until the injuries to frontcourt and george karls treatment happened; never missed the playoffs
lebron-2 times contender with disappointing post seasons due to losing as a topdog;wouldve missed the playoffs 3 times if he played the west and first round exits before 2009.

so yeah overrated my ass when hes more impactful than lebron. Lebron may win 66 games in the regular season but thats because the 8th seed in the west are winning 50 games. And they are the same in the postseason winning 2 games in the conference finals but at least melo lost to the champs while lebron lost as a topdog. LMAO

[knicksman]

How do two players cancel each other out at different positions? CP3 impacts the game a lot more, in more ways than Melo.. so I didn't understand what you meant :confusedshrug: . I think Griffin is going to seriously put the hurt on the league this year and surprise the sh** out of people. I know many people doubt that but if the guy is dominating people are gonna recognize.

impacts the game more then why the **** cp3 didnt made the conference finals and gotten out of the first round once just like melo. And worse is that he missed the playoffs in his first 2 seasons

[Human Error]

The Knicks.

Amare & Chandler>>Blake&Jordan
Melo and CP3 cancel eachother out imo.
I am sorry but only a downright idiot would say that Chris Paul and Carmelo cancel each other. Paul is a legitimate NBA superstar while Carmelo is an all star caliber offensive player with below average defense.

[Clippersfan86]

LOOks like you erased the part where melo is overrated

To reiterate

Melo to cp3

cp3. first round exit and never made it to the conference finals and missed the playoffs in his first 2 seasons while melo made it to the conference finals and never missed in the playoffs and yet cp3 is considered better. Damn pgs are so overrated and worse is pgs/big combo hasnt won since isiah while most duos that wins is big/wing.

Melo to lebron
number of contending teams before miami
melo-2 times contender coz they were 2nd in the west in 2010 until the injuries to frontcourt and george karls treatment happened; never missed the playoffs
lebron-2 times contender with disappointing post seasons due to losing as a topdog;wouldve missed the playoffs 3 times if he played the west and first round exits before 2009.

so yeah overrated my ass when hes more impactful than lebron. Lebron may win 66 games in the regular season but thats because the 8th seed in the west are winning 50 games. And they are the same in the postseason winning 2 games in the conference finals but at least melo lost to the champs while lebron lost as a topdog. LMAO

:facepalm . So I guess Melo is better than prime Tmac was... because he had more playoff success. Dude you realize it's a team sport right? The Nuggets were the deepest team in the league for a few years (when Melo dominated). They had at least 4 or 5 guys that could drop 20 points on you AND an explosive bench.

Melo goes to Knicks and wins freaking 41 games with another star player? In the west that's 35 or less wins and no playoffs. He proved he couldn't "carry" a team right there and got swept in the playoffs.

Chris Paul has one of the best "carrying" examples in league history. In a very deep western conference he led his team to a 56 win season with David West and aging Peja as the best players next to him. Then you look at his playoff stats where he has the 3rd highest playoff PER in NBA history over the course of his career.

You can't compare these situations man :confusedshrug: .

[knicksman]

I am sorry but only a downright idiot would say that Chris Paul and Carmelo cancel each other. Paul is a legitimate NBA superstar while Carmelo is an all star caliber offensive player with below average defense.


cp3. first round exit and never made it to the conference finals and missed the playoffs in his first 2 seasons while melo made it to the conference finals and never missed in the playoffs and yet cp3 is considered better. Damn pgs are so overrated and worse is pgs/big combo hasnt won since isiah while most duos that wins is big/wing.

yup only an idiot would say that :lol

[kurple]

You should have seen CP3 when NOLA lost at home by 58 points in the playoffs against a Melo lead team

[kurple]

cp3. first round exit and never made it to the conference finals and missed the playoffs in his first 2 seasons while melo made it to the conference finals and never missed in the playoffs and yet cp3 is considered better. Damn pgs are so overrated and worse is pgs/big combo hasnt won since isiah while most duos that wins is big/wing.

yup only an idiot would say that :lol
Melo have always had very good players next to him

[Clippersfan86]

BTW Knicksman would it hurt you to do a little research? Here's Carmelo's playoff history.

2004- Lost to Wolves 4-1 in first round.
2005- Lost to Spurs 4-1 in first round.
2006- Lost to Clippers 4-1 in first round.
2007- Lost to Spurs 4-1 in first round.
2008- Swept by Lakers in first round.
2009- Lost to Lakers 4-2 in WCF.

So it appears you're glorifying one single playoff run where he was amazing ( I watched it and he was).

Go ahead and defend Melo now. Nuggets have had some REALLY deep, all around great teams in the Melo era.

[knicksman]

:facepalm . So I guess Melo is better than prime Tmac was... because he had more playoff success. Dude you realize it's a team sport right? The Nuggets were the deepest team in the league for a few years (when Melo dominated). They had at least 4 or 5 guys that could drop 20 points on you AND an explosive bench.

Melo goes to Knicks and wins freaking 41 games with another star player? In the west that's 35 or less wins and no playoffs. He proved he couldn't "carry" a team right there and got swept in the playoffs.

Chris Paul has one of the best "carrying" examples in league history. In a very deep western conference he led his team to a 56 win season with David West and aging Peja as the best players next to him. Then you look at his playoff stats where he has the 3rd highest playoff PER in NBA history over the course of his career.

You can't compare these situations man :confusedshrug: .

LOL you even think that tmac is better than melo. Theres more than just stats. Its about style. Melo plays a winning style while tmac doesnt thats why hes an underachiever. And LOL at including the knicks. You realized we almost won against the celtics in the playoffs when healthy. They needed the refs to get that win. This game is still about individual players or else dirk, duncan, shaq, amare wouldnt be winners in their early careers. And nuggets were deepest because melo gave them confidence. Hes not lebron who wants to dominate the ball thats why former all stars like hughes, sczerbiak became scrubs playing with him. Stop the excuses. Melo plays a winning style that makes his teammates better just like durant while lebron, tmac doesnt.

And history also proves it. Pgs dont win in this league. While wing players do. In fact i dont consider magic a pg coz he has a big mans body.

[knicksman]

BTW Knicksman would it hurt you to do a little research? Here's Carmelo's playoff history.

2004- Lost to Wolves 4-1 in first round.
2005- Lost to Spurs 4-1 in first round.
2006- Lost to Clippers 4-1 in first round.
2007- Lost to Spurs 4-1 in first round.
2008- Swept by Lakers in first round.
2009- Lost to Lakers 4-2 in WCF.

So it appears you're glorifying one single playoff run where he was amazing ( I watched it and he was).

Go ahead and defend Melo now. Nuggets have had some REALLY deep, all around great teams in the Melo era.

they are deep because melo makes his teammates better. He gives them confidence by allowing them to create their own shot rather than be a puppet to these overrated pgs or point forwards. And give me cp3 playoff record and lebron if he was on the west. LOL Or your idol TMAC

[Clippersfan86]

LOL you even think that tmac is better than melo. Theres more than just stats. Its about style. Melo plays a winning style while tmac doesnt thats why hes an underachiever. And LOL at including the knicks. You realized we almost won against the celtics in the playoffs when healthy. They needed the refs to get that win. This game is still about individual players or else dirk, duncan, shaq, amare wouldnt be winners in their early careers. And nuggets were deepest because melo gave them confidence. Hes not lebron who wants to dominate the ball thats why former all stars like hughes, sczerbiak became scrubs playing with him. Stop the excuses. Melo plays a winning style that makes his teammates better just like durant while lebron, tmac doesnt.

And history also proves it. Pgs dont win in this league. While wing players do. In fact i dont consider magic a pg coz he has a big mans body.

Hahahaha.... dude wait... Lebron, Durant and Tmac are being compared to Melo now? Is this a freaking joke? Melo isn't worthy to hold the nuts of these 3 players. I'm sorry dude. Durant just hit the WCF in a tougher conference in his 4th season.

Lebron has been to the finals twice, won 2 straight MVP's and has been deeper in the playoffs than Melo his entire career. Tmac got dealt a shit*y hand with injuries and weak squads.. but peak Tmac is literally WAY better than Melo. An entire tier better.

You're going to blame the refs for the Knicks being swept dude? :no: . If you lose a game 7 you can blame refs... not if you get swept.

[Clippersfan86]

they are deep because melo makes his teammates better. He gives them confidence by allowing them to create their own shot rather than be a puppet to these overrated pgs or point forwards. And give me cp3 playoff record and lebron if he was on the west. LOL Or your idol TMAC

:roll: :applause: .... Melo and making his team better don't belong in the same sentence. Melo can dominate and carry a team at times.. but make teammates better? :oldlol:

[RRR3]

BTW Knicksman would it hurt you to do a little research? Here's Carmelo's playoff history.

2004- Lost to Wolves 4-1 in first round.
2005- Lost to Spurs 4-1 in first round.
2006- Lost to Clippers 4-1 in first round.
2007- Lost to Spurs 4-1 in first round.
2008- Swept by Lakers in first round.
2009- Lost to Lakers 4-2 in WCF.

So it appears you're glorifying one single playoff run where he was amazing ( I watched it and he was).

Nuggets fans go ahead and defend Melo now. Nuggets have had some REALLY deep, all around great teams in the Melo era.
It's also worth noting IMO, that unlike, say T-Mac w/ Orlando, Kobe during the Smush Parker/Chris Mihm era, Wade post Shaq pre-Big 3, or LBJ w/Cleveland, Melo didn't necessarily play great and get let down by his team, in a lot of his playoffs he has played like shit at least for his standards.

For instance:
2003-04 (yeah he was a rookie but still): 4 games, 15.0 PPG, 8.3 RPG, 2.8 APG, 1.3 SPG, 0.0 BPG, 4.3 TOV, .328 FG%, .182 3P%, .800 FT%, .412 TS%, .344 eFG%
2004-05: 5 games, 19.2 PPG, 5.4 RPG, 2.0 APG, 0.6 SPG, 0.2 BPG, .2.6 TOV, .422 FG%, .000 (0-1) 3P%, .813 FT%, .494 TS%, .422 eFG%
2005-06: 5 games, 21.0 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 2.8 APG, 0.8 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 3.0 TOV, .333 FG%, .000 3P% (0-4), .750 FT%, .431 TS%, .333 eFG%
2007-08: 4 games, 22.5 PPG, 9.5 RPG, 2.0 APG, 0.5 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 3.0 TOV, .364 FG%, .250 3P%, .828 FT%, .447 TS%, .375 eFG%

[kurple]

they are deep because melo makes his teammates better.
This is not true. At all

[Gundress]

The Cliipers hands down.

Who Knicks got? Melo, Amare?


Clippers got more good ass player than Knikcs and better bench than Knicks bench.

[Clippersfan86]

Look let me lay this out. I respect the Nuggets and Knicks. I'm not trying to troll or be a prick even though it may seem that way. I just never though I'd hear people compare Melo to CP3.. or say they cancel each other out. Or say Melo makes his teammates better. Or say Melo has some huge playoff edge over CP3. :confusedshrug: .

I hope all 3 teams do well this year and I'm sure they will.

[Clippersfan86]

It's also worth noting IMO, that unlike, say T-Mac w/ Orlando, Kobe during the Smush Parker/Chris Mihm era, Wade post Shaq pre-Big 3, or LBJ w/Cleveland, Melo didn't necessarily play great and get let down by his team, in a lot of his playoffs he has played like shit at least for his standards.

For instance:
2003-04 (yeah he was a rookie but still): 4 games, 15.0 PPG, 8.3 RPG, 2.8 APG, 1.3 SPG, 0.0 BPG, 4.3 TOV, .328 FG%, .182 3P%, .800 FT%, .412 TS%, .344 eFG%
2004-05: 5 games, 19.2 PPG, 5.4 RPG, 2.0 APG, 0.6 SPG, 0.2 BPG, .2.6 TOV, .422 FG%, .000 (0-1) 3P%, .813 FT%, .494 TS%, .422 eFG%
2005-06: 5 games, 21.0 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 2.8 APG, 0.8 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 3.0 TOV, .333 FG%, .000 3P% (0-4), .750 FT%, .431 TS%, .333 eFG%
2007-08: 4 games, 22.5 PPG, 9.5 RPG, 2.0 APG, 0.5 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 3.0 TOV, .364 FG%, .250 3P%, .828 FT%, .447 TS%, .375 eFG%

People are too hung up on that great 09 run in the playoffs he had where he legitimately seemed to own Kobe.

[brownmamba00]

I am sorry but only a downright idiot would say that Chris Paul and Carmelo cancel each other. Paul is a legitimate NBA superstar while Carmelo is an all star caliber offensive player with below average defense.
CP3 is a superstar and Melo isn't?:oldlol: Last year before the playoffs he barely was a top 10 player, crazy how a couple of games against the Lakers can change everything. And Melo dropped what 40/15 last year against the C's in Boston and almost won the game with Jered Jeffries starting. When Melo does this 'barely top 10' when Wade does it 'omgz best playoff performer:bowdown:

I already said CP3 is better then Melo but he is not the clear cut better player.

[chips93]

It's also worth noting IMO, that unlike, say T-Mac w/ Orlando, Kobe during the Smush Parker/Chris Mihm era, Wade post Shaq pre-Big 3, or LBJ w/Cleveland, Melo didn't necessarily play great and get let down by his team, in a lot of his playoffs he has played like shit at least for his standards.

For instance:
2003-04 (yeah he was a rookie but still): 4 games, 15.0 PPG, 8.3 RPG, 2.8 APG, 1.3 SPG, 0.0 BPG, 4.3 TOV, .328 FG%, .182 3P%, .800 FT%, .412 TS%, .344 eFG%
2004-05: 5 games, 19.2 PPG, 5.4 RPG, 2.0 APG, 0.6 SPG, 0.2 BPG, .2.6 TOV, .422 FG%, .000 (0-1) 3P%, .813 FT%, .494 TS%, .422 eFG%
2005-06: 5 games, 21.0 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 2.8 APG, 0.8 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 3.0 TOV, .333 FG%, .000 3P% (0-4), .750 FT%, .431 TS%, .333 eFG%
2007-08: 4 games, 22.5 PPG, 9.5 RPG, 2.0 APG, 0.5 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 3.0 TOV, .364 FG%, .250 3P%, .828 FT%, .447 TS%, .375 eFG%


wow, sub 50 TS% each of those years. thats piss poor efficeincy.

[TrueRob]

Hmm, well the Knicks definitely have a better starting 5. Overall, I'm not sure, but I think the Knicks should get the slight edge. The only clear advantage the Clippers have is the point guard matchup.

[upside24]

I don't think Melo cancels out CP3 necessarily but Melo is an elite level scorer, top 3 in the league as far as versatility goes and that makes him a superstar in my opinion.

[RRR3]

People are too hung up on that great 09 run in the playoffs he had where he legitimately seemed to own Kobe.
Yeah and here's some more info.

In 2003-04, on the Nuggets, Voshon Lenard and Andre Miller outscored Melo in the playoffs. :facepalm Melo's shooting throughout the playoffs: 6-17, 5-11, 9-20, 1-16 for 2 points :roll:

2005-06: 9-26, 5-15, 6-17, 5-17, 8-24 :roll:

2007-08: 11-26, 8-20, 5-22, 8-20

[Clippersfan86]

CP3 is a superstar and Melo isn't?:oldlol: Last year before the playoffs he barely was a top 10 player, crazy how a couple of games against the Lakers can change everything. And Melo dropped what 40/15 last year against the C's in Boston and almost won the game with Jered Jeffries starting. When Melo does this 'barely top 10' when Wade does it 'omgz best playoff performer:bowdown:

I already said CP3 is better then Melo but he is not the clear cut better player.

Give me CP3's 27 point, 13 rebound, 15 assist, 2 steals, 1 block game on only 14 shots of last year in the playoffs over Melo's 42 point, 17 rebound, 6 assist, 2 block game in which Amare was gone and Melo took 30 freaking shots. Melo is a volume scorer and always will be. You take 30 shots when you have Melo's talent and you're obviously going to score 40+.

[knicksman]

Hahahaha.... dude wait... Lebron, Durant and Tmac are being compared to Melo now? Is this a freaking joke? Melo isn't worthy to hold the nuts of these 3 players. I'm sorry dude. Durant just hit the WCF in a tougher conference in his 4th season.

Lebron has been to the finals twice, won 2 straight MVP's and has been deeper in the playoffs than Melo his entire career. Tmac got dealt a shit*y hand with injuries and weak squads.. but peak Tmac is literally WAY better than Melo. An entire tier better.

You're going to blame the refs for the Knicks being swept dude? :no: . If you lose a game 7 you can blame refs... not if you get swept.

LMAO at tougher western conference. You just expose your IQ there bro. Lakers/spurs are done. Suns, nuggets, utah, portland lost their star players. Yup tougher western conference.

And sorry i dont overrate players because they went to the finals or else jkidd too would be better than melo. As I said lebron would be a first round exit if he was on the west instead of going to the finals. But of course you dont have the IQ to analyze those type of situations. And dont tell me tmac has weaker players than rookie melo when rookie melo had more wins than prime tmac. LOL And tmac never had gotten out of the first round despite having yao on his side while melo only got chauncey.

And I only blame the refs for that one game coz thats the only game when they were healthy which is game 1.

[RRR3]

CP3 is a superstar and Melo isn't?:oldlol: Last year before the playoffs he barely was a top 10 player, crazy how a couple of games against the Lakers can change everything. And Melo dropped what 40/15 last year against the C's in Boston and almost won the game with Jered Jeffries starting. When Melo does this 'barely top 10' when Wade does it 'omgz best playoff performer:bowdown:

I already said CP3 is better then Melo but he is not the clear cut better player.
Melo had one great game against the Celtics, yes.

However he wasn't great overall.

Game 1: 5-18, 15/4/4
Game 2: 14-32, 42/17/6 :bowdown:
Game 3: 4-16, 15/11/6
Game 4: 10-24, 32/9/3

One amazing game one good game, two stinkers.

[Clippersfan86]

Yeah and here's some more info.

In 2003-04, on the Nuggets, Voshon Lenard and Andre Miller outscored Melo in the playoffs. :facepalm Melo's shooting throughout the playoffs: 6-17, 5-11, 9-20, 1-16 for 2 points :roll:

2005-06: 9-26, 5-15, 6-17, 5-17, 8-24 :roll:

2007-08: 11-26, 8-20, 5-22, 8-20

:eek: . I may be being extra harsh on Melo. I've always considered him a pretender superstar. A guy who some people overrate like crazy who's had little impact on his teams (making them better etc). He's a talented scorer.. but super talented scoring 2's and 3's like him aren't rare.

[Clippersfan86]

LMAO at tougher western conference. You just expose your IQ there bro. Lakers/spurs are done. Suns, nuggets, utah, portland lost their star players. Yup tougher western conference.

And sorry i dont overrate players because they went to the finals or else jkidd too would be better than melo. As I said lebron would be a first round exit if he was on the west instead of going to the finals. But of course you dont have the IQ to analyze those type of situations. And dont tell me tmac has weaker players than rookie melo when rookie melo had more wins than prime tmac. LOL And tmac never had gotten out of the first round despite having yao on his side while melo only got chauncey.

And I only blame the refs for that one game coz thats the only game when they were healthy which is game 1.

Last year the west was an all around tougher and deeper conference. 8th seed won 47 games... last place in the east won what 37? East is getting a lot stronger but last year west had CLEAR edge. Tmac and Yao were never healthy at the same time long enough to make a big dent. If you think you're going to convince ANYBODY that Melo>Tmac you're on some serious sh** bro. Go make a new thread comparing the two players and see how many people rip you to shreds.

[RRR3]

LMAO at tougher western conference. You just expose your IQ there bro. Lakers/spurs are done. Suns, nuggets, utah, portland lost their star players. Yup tougher western conference.

And sorry i dont overrate players because they went to the finals or else jkidd too would be better than melo. As I said lebron would be a first round exit if he was on the west instead of going to the finals. But of course you dont have the IQ to analyze those type of situations. And dont tell me tmac has weaker players than rookie melo when rookie melo had more wins than prime tmac. LOL And tmac never had gotten out of the first round despite having yao on his side while melo only got chauncey.

And I only blame the refs for that one game coz thats the only game when they were healthy which is game 1.
So let me get this straight...when Melo is in the Western Conference the West is the "Tough conference". When he goes to the East, the West becomes "weak"? :roll:

[knicksman]

:roll: :applause: .... Melo and making his team better don't belong in the same sentence. Melo can dominate and carry a team at times.. but make teammates better? :oldlol:

bro whats the definition of making teammates better? Its teaching your teammates how to play not to be a bystander waiting for a pass. Its about trusting your teammates to deliver their roles rather than taking all the roles coz you want to have the best stats. Thats why iverson, billups are still all stars on that team while iverson became a bench player in detroit. While sczerbiak, hughes, etc became scrubs when they joined lebron. I guess pierce/allen didnt make rondo better when its obvious that rondo became a superstar on that team by playing alongside them. Its about trusting your teammates and teamwork. LOL Point forwards are not team players thats why they dont impact as melo does despite their stats. JUst ask oscar robertson.

[Clippersfan86]

bro whats the definition of making teammates better? Its teaching your teammates how to play not to be a bystander waiting for a pass. Its about trusting your teammates to deliver their roles rather than taking all the roles coz you want to have the best stats. Thats why iverson, billups are still all stars on that team while iverson became a bench player in detroit. While sczerbiak, hughes, etc became scrubs when they joined lebron. I guess pierce/allen didnt make rondo better when its obvious that rondo became a superstar on that team by playing alongside them. Its about trusting your teammates and teamwork. LOL Point forwards are not team players thats why they dont impact as melo does despite their stats. JUst ask oscar robertson.

:facepalm ... :roll:.. I'll let others respond to this.

[knickscity]

Give me CP3's 27 point, 13 rebound, 15 assist, 2 steals, 1 block game on only 14 shots of last year in the playoffs over Melo's 42 point, 17 rebound, 6 assist, 2 block game in which Amare was gone and Melo took 30 freaking shots. Melo is a volume scorer and always will be. You take 30 shots when you have Melo's talent and you're obviously going to score 40+.

Just wondering........

Do you think the Lakers defense on CP3 was equal to the Celtics defense on Melo?

[knicksman]

So let me get this straight...when Melo is in the Western Conference the West is the "Tough conference". When he goes to the East, the West becomes "weak"? :roll:

Because the stars from the west are now in the east. Wow increase your IQ please.

[Clippersfan86]

Just wondering........

Do you think the Lakers defense on CP3 was equal to the Celtics defense on Melo?

Do you think CP3 has the same physical advantage over players of his position that Melo does with his bully ball? GTFO dude. We aren't going to make excuses. CP3>Melo. CP3= better playoff performer.

[Clippersfan86]

Because the stars from the west are now in the east. Wow increase your IQ please.

Then why did the east finish so much weaker? The 8th seed in the west would of been the 3rd or 4th seed with homecourt advantage in the east.

[knicksman]

:facepalm ... :roll:.. I'll let others respond to this.


others are the same as you. average to below average IQ. average means the majority while im above majority. Thats why majority of opionion are the same as yours

[Clippersfan86]

others are the same as you. average to below average IQ. average means the majority while im above majority. Thats why majority of opionion are the same as yours

:oldlol: . Keep going man... I'm dying here... :roll:

[knicksman]

It's also worth noting IMO, that unlike, say T-Mac w/ Orlando, Kobe during the Smush Parker/Chris Mihm era, Wade post Shaq pre-Big 3, or LBJ w/Cleveland, Melo didn't necessarily play great and get let down by his team, in a lot of his playoffs he has played like shit at least for his standards.

For instance:
2003-04 (yeah he was a rookie but still): 4 games, 15.0 PPG, 8.3 RPG, 2.8 APG, 1.3 SPG, 0.0 BPG, 4.3 TOV, .328 FG%, .182 3P%, .800 FT%, .412 TS%, .344 eFG%
2004-05: 5 games, 19.2 PPG, 5.4 RPG, 2.0 APG, 0.6 SPG, 0.2 BPG, .2.6 TOV, .422 FG%, .000 (0-1) 3P%, .813 FT%, .494 TS%, .422 eFG%
2005-06: 5 games, 21.0 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 2.8 APG, 0.8 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 3.0 TOV, .333 FG%, .000 3P% (0-4), .750 FT%, .431 TS%, .333 eFG%
2007-08: 4 games, 22.5 PPG, 9.5 RPG, 2.0 APG, 0.5 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 3.0 TOV, .364 FG%, .250 3P%, .828 FT%, .447 TS%, .375 eFG%

because tmac played against detroit which is an 8th seed team in the west. thats how embarassing tmac is. 8th seed on the east where the 1st seed is just the 8th seed on the west. LOL when tmac left, their team has improved winning more games. Thats the tmac, a cancer.

[NugzFan]

homer fight!!!!

http://www.channel4.com/assets/programmes/images/the-simpsons/series-8/episode-3/the-simpsons-s8e3-20090310123022_200x113.jpg

this thread is awesome.

[Clippersfan86]

because tmac played against detroit which is an 8th seed team in the west. thats how embarassing tmac is. 8th seed on the east where the 1st seed is just the 8th seed on the west. LOL when tmac left, their team has improved winning more games. Thats the tmac, a cancer.

:roll: :hammerhead: . You're right.. the championship/borderline dynasty Pistons of the early-mid 2000's would be an 8 seed in the west. :oldlol:

[brownmamba00]

Give me CP3's 27 point, 13 rebound, 15 assist, 2 steals, 1 block game on only 14 shots of last year in the playoffs over Melo's 42 point, 17 rebound, 6 assist, 2 block game in which Amare was gone and Melo took 30 freaking shots. Melo is a volume scorer and always will be. You take 30 shots when you have Melo's talent and you're obviously going to score 40+.
Melo was hardly chucking that game 47/50/90% with only 1 turnover. That's efficient.
CP3 had 6 TO's and most of his points came off free throws. They are on par but I'll take CP's statline.

Anyway your the one making the comparison. I just proofed Melo is as much of a superstar CP3 is.

It's fukking retarded to think Melo is only an all star while cp3 is a superstar.

[DMV2]

BTW Knicksman would it hurt you to do a little research? Here's Carmelo's playoff history.

2004- Lost to Wolves 4-1 in first round.
2005- Lost to Spurs 4-1 in first round.
2006- Lost to Clippers 4-1 in first round.
2007- Lost to Spurs 4-1 in first round.
2008- Swept by Lakers in first round.
2009- Lost to Lakers 4-2 in WCF.

So it appears you're glorifying one single playoff run where he was amazing ( I watched it and he was).

Go ahead and defend Melo now. Nuggets have had some REALLY deep, all around great teams in the Melo era.
Melo's Nuggets were decent but they were never in position to go deep in the playoffs, especially not against the Spurs and Lakers of the world. Wolves had a good team that year and Melo was a rookie.

Only excuse I could think of for the Clippers lost is that the Lakers were also outshined by the Clippers. Lakers missed the playoffs that year. :lol

Oh, never mind. CF86 just debunked himself...

:roll: :hammerhead: . You're right.. the championship/borderline dynasty Pistons of the early-mid 2000's would be an 8 seed in the west. :oldlol:

[knickscity]

Do you think CP3 has the same physical advantage over players of his position that Melo does with his bully ball? GTFO dude. We aren't going to make excuses. CP3>Melo. CP3= better playoff performer.

This wasn't my question, and I think I was being respectful when I asked it.

I like engaging conversation, but if you're not willing I'll leave it alone.

So I will ask again.......

Do you think the Lakers defense on CP3 was equal to the defense the Celtics put on Melo?

Now in my opinion what Melo was able to do against the Celtics, a TOP 3 defense, and keep his team in a game in which, the entire defnse was focused on him is vastly better than what CP3 was able to accomplish against the Lakers defense.

[RRR3]

because tmac played against detroit which is an 8th seed team in the west. thats how embarassing tmac is. 8th seed on the east where the 1st seed is just the 8th seed on the west. LOL when tmac left, their team has improved winning more games. Thats the tmac, a cancer.
I didn't see T-Mac shooting 1-16 :roll:

[upside24]

This wasn't my question, and I think I was being respectful when I asked it.

I like engaging conversation, but if you're not willing I'll leave it alone.

So I will ask again.......

Do you think the Lakers defense on CP3 was equal to the defense the Celtics put on Melo?

Now in my opinion what Melo was able to do against the Celtics, a TOP 3 defense, and keep his team in a game in which, the entire defnse was focused on him is vastly better than what CP3 was able to accomplish against the Lakers defense.
CP3 was being "guarded" by Fisher. The Lakers had no one quick enough to check him. Barea looked like CP3 when the Lakers played the Mavs.

[knicksman]

:roll: :hammerhead: . You're right.. the championship/borderline dynasty Pistons of the early-mid 2000's would be an 8 seed in the west. :oldlol:

LOL you really think those pistons team were contenders. Wow even idiots could recognize those. WTF They were only contenders when they got rasheed but they were 8th seed if they were in the west.

[Clippersfan86]

Melo was hardly chucking that game 47/50/90% with only 1 turnover. That's efficient.
CP3 had 6 TO's and most of his points came off free throws. They are on par but I'll take CP's statline.

Anyway your the one making the comparison. I just proofed Melo is as much of a superstar CP3 is.

It's fukking retarded to think Melo is only an all star while cp3 is a superstar.

Most people I know call CP3 a superstar and Melo only an all star. Why is that retarded?

[NugzFan]

this thread is awesome.

two unstoppable homers going head to head. epic.

finally a clippers or knicks thread that doesnt suck!

[shaunliv]

this thread is awesome.

two unstoppable homers going head to head. epic.

finally a clippers or knicks thread that doesnt suck!

:roll: :applause:

[RRR3]

LOL you really think those pistons team were contenders. Wow even idiots could recognize those. WTF They were only contenders when they got rasheed but they were 8th seed if they were in the west.
The West was the strongest conference in NBA history when Melo was on the Nuggets! :bowdown: Now that's he's in the East, the East is the strongest conference! :bowdown: Knicksman "logic" FTW! :applause: :roll:

[knicksman]

I didn't see T-Mac shooting 1-16 :roll:

i didnt see tmac in the 2nd round and worse is that they advanced when he was out. LOL what a cancer.

[knicksman]

Most people I know call CP3 a superstar and Melo only an all star. Why is that retarded?

because players who cant make it to the conference finals and positions that arent needed to win a championship shouldnt be called superstars.

[Clippersfan86]

This wasn't my question, and I think I was being respectful when I asked it.

I like engaging conversation, but if you're not willing I'll leave it alone.

So I will ask again.......

Do you think the Lakers defense on CP3 was equal to the defense the Celtics put on Melo?

Now in my opinion what Melo was able to do against the Celtics, a TOP 3 defense, and keep his team in a game in which, the entire defnse was focused on him is vastly better than what CP3 was able to accomplish against the Lakers defense.

And the Lakers were the 6th overall defense. I'm not going to use this as an excuse. Chris Paul is a superior career playoff performer PERIOD and it's not even close. Maybe we can argue the best playoff games from each player from last year but CP3>Melo PERIOD. Playoffs and regular season. Let's just establish that now. Like I said... 3rd highest career playoff PER in NBA history. Melo can't touch it.

[RRR3]

i didnt see tmac in the 2nd round and worse is that they advanced when he was out. LOL what a cancer.
It's easy to say ignorant shit w/o context. T-Mac during his prime never had a single bad playoff series. Fact. T-Mac is my all-time favorite player, I have been following him since his prime with the Magic. Don't try to rewrite history and tell me he didn't do good in the playoffs. T-Mac was awesome in many of his playoffs, it's not his fault he played with shitty teams in Orlando. In Houston he was past his prime after 05 and he and Yao were always hurt.



And again, 1-16. :roll:

[Clippersfan86]

because players who cant make it to the conference finals and positions that arent needed to win a championship shouldnt be called superstars.

So now SF's are more important to a team than PG's? This keeps getting better and better. SF's like Bird, Pippen and Lebron who do everything and play multiple positions are an exception.

[knicksman]

So now SF's are more important to a team than PG's? This keeps getting better and better.


then explain how are pgs more important when you cant win with them. If you have logic, then you would know by now that the important ones should give you a chip right. LOL

[knickscity]

And the Lakers were the 6th overall defense. I'm not going to use this as an excuse. Chris Paul is a superior career playoff performer PERIOD and it's not even close. Maybe we can argue the best playoff games from each player from last year but CP3>Melo PERIOD. Playoffs and regular season. Let's just establish that now.
Ok then just using playoffs.

Melo has never missed the playoffs.

Can Chris Paul say that?

Let's start here first since we are establishing things.

How can you possibly be a better playoff performer when half of your career....

You didn't qualify?

[knicksman]

It's easy to say ignorant shit w/o context. T-Mac during his prime never had a single bad playoff series. Fact. T-Mac is my all-time favorite player, I have been following him since his prime with the Magic. Don't try to rewrite history and tell me he didn't do good in the playoffs. T-Mac was awesome in many of his playoffs, it's not his fault he played with shitty teams in Orlando. In Houston he was past his prime after 05 and he and Yao were always hurt.



And again, 1-16. :roll:

WTF of course you would do good against 8th seeded teams like detroit rather than championship caliber teams like lakers san antonio. LOL Dumb people will always be dumb

[RRR3]

then explain how are pgs more important when you cant win with them. If you have logic, then you would know by now that the important ones should give you a chip right. LOL
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/ian_thomsen/10/22/isiah.magic/magic-isiah2.jpg

[knicksman]

Ok then just using playoffs.

Melo has never missed the playoffs.

Can Chris Paul say that?

Let's start here first since we are establishing things.

How can you possibly be a better playoff performer when half of your career....

You didn't qualify?


yah.. i rather have 1-16 than 0-0 coz they missed the playoffs. LOL

[NugzFan]

omg did you guys see what they just said:


knicks are gay. clippers are so much better. griffin dominates amare and cp3 >>>>>>>>>>>>> melo. clips will win it all, knicks wont even make the playoffs!!!


clippers are more gay. knicks will destroy them this year. have the clips ever even made the playoffs. amare will make griffin his bitch and melo pwns cp3! knicks all the way!!!

sorry but i cant let this thread end...gotta keep it going somehow...a little fuel to the fire never hurt anyone

[knicksman]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/ian_thomsen/10/22/isiah.magic/magic-isiah2.jpg

magic was an exception coz he has a big mans body. Big men wins in this league.

[RRR3]

magic was an exception coz he has a big mans body. Big men wins in this league.
Isiah Thomas is also in that picture. :rolleyes: And you're (supposedly) a Knicks fan? Haven't you heard of Walt Frazier? PG who led his team to a chip last time I checked. What about Tony Parker? Finals MVP as a PG in 2007. Chauncey Billups? Finals MVP as a PG. Jo Jo White? Finals MVP as PG. Dennis Johnson? Finals MVP as a PG. But yeah, you can't win with PG's. :facepalm

[Clippersfan86]

Ok then just using playoffs.

Melo has never missed the playoffs.

Can Chris Paul say that?

Let's start here first since we are establishing things.

How can you possibly be a better playoff performer when half of your career....

You didn't qualify?

Number of playoff appearances has nothing to do with performing when you get there man. Literally not even relevant. Playoff appearances weigh heavily on the TEAM you have as well as luck such as injuries etc. Carmelo was working with much better squads. Based on what we know from Paul's playoff numbers/efficiency we can safely say if you swapped CP3 for Melo he would of taken that team further without question.

Even Nuggets fans would probably have no trouble admitting this.

[Nash]

Clippers.

Two stars cancel each other out (Melo, Amare, CP and Blake)
Two defensive centers cancel each other out (Chandler and Jordan)

The rest? Well, Clippers just kill them. Mo Williams, Chauncey, Butler, Bledsoe, Foye.. Knicks have nothing close to that.

[Clippersfan86]

WTF of course you would do good against 8th seeded teams like detroit rather than championship caliber teams like lakers san antonio. LOL Dumb people will always be dumb

Pistons beat the Lakers 4-1 pretty handily with the Lakers coming off the 3rd straight championship. They were a top 3 defensive team of all time and statistically you could argue they are the best defensive team of all time, all around. Unlike the Bad Boys Pistons... they had to deal more rules and restrictions as well.

It's funny for you to act like they weren't imposing. You have to be trolling... this can't be real.

[knicksman]

Number of playoff appearances has nothing to do with performing when you get there man. Literally not even relevant. Playoff appearances weigh heavily on the TEAM you have as well as luck such as injuries etc. Carmelo was working with much better squads. Based on what we know from Paul's playoff numbers/efficiency we can safely say if you swapped CP3 for Melo he would of taken that team further without question.

Even Nuggets fans would probably have no trouble admitting this.

then tell me why oscar robertson, lebron, tmac, carter, iverson are all underachievers compared to melo if they are better than them. YOu know why? because they are cancerous to their team. I rather have reggie miller than iverson. Or why the **** did pierce/allen won while lebron/wade cant. BEcause wade and lebrons style arent conducive to winning while melo is whos the same as pierce.

[Hank]

Clippers >> Knicks

[knicksman]

Isiah Thomas is also in that picture. :rolleyes: And you're (supposedly) a Knicks fan? Haven't you heard of Walt Frazier? PG who led his team to a chip last time I checked. What about Tony Parker? Finals MVP as a PG in 2007. Chauncey Billups? Finals MVP as a PG. Jo Jo White? Finals MVP as PG. Dennis Johnson? Finals MVP as a PG. But yeah, you can't win with PG's. :facepalm

isiah is the only one and other than that you cant win with them.

[knickscity]

Number of playoff appearances has nothing to do with performing when you get there man. Literally not even relevant. Playoff appearances weigh heavily on the TEAM you have as well as luck such as injuries etc. Carmelo was working with much better squads. Based on what we know from Paul's playoff numbers/efficiency we can safely say if you swapped CP3 for Melo he would of taken that team further without question.

Even Nuggets fans would probably have no trouble admitting this.

I'm only addressing what you mentioned.

You're claiming that CP3 is a better playoff performer.

But that cannot be totally true if half of your career you didn't make it.

There are very, very few superstars who don't will their teams far into the playoffs, never less qualify.

CP3 is one of those guys.

But to claim that Melo has just had better teams is really not a fair reasoning.

Especially when considering how many different pg's he's had to play with, the amount of games his big men had not played together in Nene and K-mart.

Melo has had talented squads no doubt, but as an all-star talent he's helped his teams qualify with major rashes of injuries to his squad.

It's all relative and should be addressed.

[Clippersfan86]

then tell me why oscar robertson, lebron, tmac, carter, iverson are all underachievers compared to melo if they are better than them. YOu know why? because they are cancerous to their team. I rather have reggie miller than iverson. Or why the **** did pierce/allen won while lebron/wade cant. BEcause wade and lebrons style arent conducive to winning while melo is whos the same as pierce.

You realize pretty much all the players you're calling out had far more career success than Melo right? So you think Wade leading his team to a title in his 3rd season with one of the greatest finals performances ever is cancerous? Or Wade and Lebron getting to the finals in their first year together? Yes complete failures compared to Melo!

[knicksman]

Pistons beat the Lakers 4-1 pretty handily with the Lakers coming off the 3rd straight championship. They were a top 3 defensive team of all time and statistically you could argue they are the best defensive team of all time, all around. Unlike the Bad Boys Pistons... they had to deal more rules and restrictions as well.

It's funny for you to act like they weren't imposing. You have to be trolling... this can't be real.


WTF. Did tmac face those pistons team. I said they were good when they got rasheed but those detroit teams werent contenders before rasheed. And you know whats tmac record at that time? 21-61 LMAO is that your hero. Melo would never had that kind of record. Embarassing for a so called superstar.

[Clippersfan86]

I'm only addressing what you mentioned.

You're claiming that CP3 is a better playoff performer.

But that cannot be totally true if half of your career you didn't make it.

There are very, very few superstars who don't will their teams far into the playoffs, never less qualify.

CP3 is one of those guys.

But to claim that Melo has just had better teams is really not a fair reasoning.

Especially when considering how many different pg's he's had to play with, the amount of games his big men had not played together in Nene and K-mart.

Melo has had talented squads no doubt, but as an all-star talent he's helped his teams qualify with major rashes of injuries to his squad.

It's all relative and should be addressed.


You're comparing apples and oranges. Number of playoff appearances has NOTHING to do with if you're a high level playoff performer. If CP3 had 33 ppg Iverson, just out of prime Billups, prime Marcus Camby and tons of other depth and talent.. I have ZERO doubt he wins a ring or makes the finals.

[knicksman]

You realize pretty much all the players you're calling out had far more career success than Melo right? So you think Wade leading his team to a title in his 3rd season with one of the greatest finals performances ever is cancerous? Or Wade and Lebron getting to the finals in their first year together? Yes complete failures compared to Melo!


wade with the help of the refs. OK brother. I dont considers wades ring legit.

[Clippersfan86]

WTF. Did tmac face those pistons team. I said they were good when they got rasheed but those detroit teams werent contenders before rasheed. And you know whats tmac record at that time? 21-61 LMAO is that your hero. Melo would never had that kind of record. Embarassing for a so called superstar.

Okay and... the Pistons were dominant for many years. They had what... 6 straight ECF appearances??? They were very dominant before Rasheed, they just got better.

[Clippersfan86]

wade with the help of the refs. OK brother. I dont considers wades ring legit.

Even without refs help.. Wade's level of play in those finals will NEVER be touched by Melo and I'm confident of that. I watched that series and the dude played at a level I haven't seen since Jordan. He grabbed that serious by the balls and took it.

[knicksman]

Okay and... the Pistons were dominant for many years. They had what... 6 straight ECF appearances??? They were very dominant before Rasheed, they just got better.


LMAO dominant my ass. I guess you have low standards. NO wonder why you love players with low standard underachieving like tmac, lebron, carter, iverson.

[knicksman]

Even without refs help.. Wade's level of play in those finals will NEVER be touched by Melo and I'm confident of that. I watched that series and the dude played at a level I haven't seen since Jordan. He grabbed that serious by the balls and took it.


oh really. I dont think so. Your going dominant if your shooting at the ft line with no defenders bothering you:lol

[Clippersfan86]

LMAO dominant my ass. I guess you have low standards. NO wonder why you love players with low standard underachieving like tmac, lebron, carter, iverson.

:facepalm . You're right... Pistons of the early-mid 00's were weak. In the west they would be an 8th seed despite having the best opponent PPG numbers in NBA history. Having a top 5 defense of all time. :oldlol:

[knicksman]

:facepalm . You're right... Pistons of the early-mid 00's were weak. In the west they would be an 8th seed despite having the best opponent PPG numbers in NBA history. Having a top 5 defense of all time. :oldlol:


oh youre hurt. then ill give you 6th seed which is a first round exit. Those are the teams tmac are facing. LMAO

[knicksman]

:facepalm . You're right... Pistons of the early-mid 00's were weak. In the west they would be an 8th seed despite having the best opponent PPG numbers in NBA history. Having a top 5 defense of all time. :oldlol:


oh youre hurt. then ill give you 6th seed which is still a first round exit. Those are the teams tmac are facing. LMAO

[RRR3]

:facepalm . You're right... Pistons of the early-mid 00's were weak. In the west they would be an 8th seed despite having the best opponent PPG numbers in NBA history. Having a top 5 defense of all time. :oldlol:
No, but Melo was more helpful to his teammates! By having brickfests like going 1-16 and 5-22, Melo enabled his teammates to get more rebounds AND get putbacks. DA GAWD! :bowdown:

[Clippersfan86]

oh youre hurt. then ill give you 6th seed which is still a first round exit. Those are the teams tmac are facing. LMAO

:oldlol: . I seriously love you... You've entertained me.

[knickscity]

You're comparing apples and oranges. Number of playoff appearances has NOTHING to do with if you're a high level playoff performer. If CP3 had 33 ppg Iverson, just out of prime Billups, prime Marcus Camby and tons of other depth and talent.. I have ZERO doubt he wins a ring or makes the finals.
Superstars more times than none, qualify for the playoffs.

You think that's irrelevant but it's the basis of saying how a player performs in the playoffs.....they have to get there first, and Chris Paul hasn't been able to will his team in like Melo has.

I don't want to use the excuse of who these guys played with, although even in Melo's first year Camby was injured if I recall correctly.

Camby, Nene, K-mart, were virtually rotating injuries the whole time with Melo.

Iverson and Melo was not a good fit and no one will argue that.

And to really think CP3 would be a lock to the finals with the Denver squad is really reaching.

[knicksman]

oh may i add another cancerous player in grant hill. LMAO better than melo but another first round virgin until the suns

[knicksman]

No, but Melo was more helpful to his teammates! By having brickfests like going 1-16 and 5-22, Melo enabled his teammates to get more rebounds AND get putbacks. DA GAWD! :bowdown:

tmac facing the detroit pistons which are first round exit in the west. LMAO and cant get it done.

[ursamajor]

Both teams lack depth. But the Knicks have the better starting bigs.

On a side note, what do you guys think of Blake's decision to grow his hair out this past off season?

http://cdn2.screenjunkies.com/wp-content/uploads/images/2010b/rockydennis1si8.jpg

I like that he has parted it.

[airchibundo507]

The West was the strongest conference in NBA history when Melo was on the Nuggets! :bowdown: Now that's he's in the East, the East is the strongest conference! :bowdown: Knicksman "logic" FTW! :applause: :roll:

Did you miss the fact that Melo left the Nuggets, DWill left the Jazz, Amare left the Suns, Roy is incapacitated and the Spurs are a year older? Did you miss that?

Not that the East was necessarily stronger, but it's ridiculous for you to say that the Western Conference was more talented last year than in past years.

[sirkeelma]

Tyson Chandler is the BIG difference..

[airchibundo507]

wow, sub 50 TS% each of those years. thats piss poor efficeincy.

Go look at his team's outside shooting in the playoffs. Early in Melo's career he had some of the worst outside shooting teams I have ever seen. Now imagine ELITE defenses from championship-caliber teams exploiting that weakness.

[AngelEyes]

This is a tough one...as of now I think the Knicks might have the slight edge because of the Tyson chandler addition. I worry about the Clippers ability to defend with Del Negro "coaching". While the Knicks will be by no means a defensive stalwart I think they will still be in better shape than the Clippers. Jordan has a chance to be a defensive presence in the same way Chandler is, but he is still far too undisciplined.

[airchibundo507]

CP3 was being "guarded" by Fisher. The Lakers had no one quick enough to check him. Barea looked like CP3 when the Lakers played the Mavs.

preach.

Melo was seeing double/triple teams every possession with Amare injured and Billups off the floor.

[Human Error]

preach.

Melo was seeing double/triple teams every possession with Amare injured and Billups off the floor.
Idiot alert. Why would you ever double Carmelo with Amare and Billups? Man these Knicks fans are delusional.

[airchibundo507]

Idiot alert. Why would you ever double Carmelo with Amare and Billups? Man these Knicks fans are delusional.

Learn how to read, sh*tforbrains

[upside24]

Learn how to read, sh*tforbrains
:lol :applause:

[greymatter]

Hard to say right now.

The Clippers have a higher ceiling and will eventually be superior offensively barring injury to CP3.