Kyrie Irving: 6 pts on 2-12 shooting, 7 assists in career debut; Bust already?

[MMKM]

Are the Cavs wishing they took Derrick Williams yet?

[LAClipsFan33]

Epic Chucker !!!

:roll:

[DevilsAssassin]

Ricky Rubio >

[MMKM]

I just don't see what he did to deserve a number 1 overall pick, not that it's his fault. This isn't a 1 game overreaction thread, he just doesn't project well to me as a pro, not number 1 well.

[RoseCity07]

Says 2-12 on ESPN.

[chips93]

op doesnt know how to read a boxscore

irving was 2-12 overall, and 1-5 on threes.

irving couldnt hit from outside, he got a lot of attention from the raps defense. he showed some really nice passing.


I just don't see what he did to deserve a number 1 overall pick, not that it's his fault. This isn't a 1 game overreaction thread, he just doesn't project well to me as a pro, not number 1 well.

what the hell is it then? :roll:

he plays one bad game, you make a thread specifically about that one bad game, and then say he will have a disappointing career as a result.

is there something im missing here?

[MMKM]

op doesnt know how to read a boxscore

irving was 2-12 overall, and 1-5 on threes.

irving couldnt hit from outside, he got a lot of attention from the raps defense. he showed some really nice passing.



what the hell is it then? :roll:

he plays one bad game, you make a thread specifically about that one bad game, and then say he will have a disappointing career as a result.

is there something im missing here?

Yes. You are missing the fact that this isn't a reaction from one game, it's based on the fact that he is small, not very quick, injury prone and unproven at the college level. The day of the draft I made a thread comparing his accomplishments to Kemba Walkers and asking why the hell he got taken number 1. I have nothing against the guy, I just don't see him panning out as a number 1 pick type player. Tonight was just an example.

[chips93]

Yes. You are missing the fact that this isn't a reaction from one game, it's based on the fact that he is small, not very quick, injury prone and unproven at the college level. The day of the draft I made a thread comparing his accomplishments to Kemba Walkers and asking why the hell he got taken number 1. I have nothing against the guy, I just don't see him panning out as a number 1 pick type player. Tonight was just an example.

well thats just fine, but dont expect anybody to take you seriously if you post these things one game into his career.

[sixer6ad]

Yes. You are missing the fact that this isn't a reaction from one game, it's based on the fact that he is small, not very quick, injury prone and unproven at the college level. The day of the draft I made a thread comparing his accomplishments to Kemba Walkers and asking why the hell he got taken number 1. I have nothing against the guy, I just don't see him panning out as a number 1 pick type player. Tonight was just an example.

Thank God every GM in the league and every draft prognosticator had him pegged #1. What the hell are you thinking with this post? People WHO ACTUALLY KNOW watch these players for years and make predictions, yet you post on the fact that you think he won't be a good pro? Amazing. Did you say that last week when he had 21 in his pro debut? Unreal what some of you people post on here....like you actually know. :facepalm

[MMKM]

well thats just fine, but dont expect anybody to take you seriously if you post these things one game into his career.

Totally aware of how it comes off, but that's my prediction

[MochaUdoka]

op doesnt know how to read a boxscore

irving was 2-12 overall, and 1-5 on threes.

:roll: @ 3-17

[MMKM]

Thank God every GM in the league and every draft prognosticator had him pegged #1. What the hell are you thinking with this post? People WHO ACTUALLY KNOW watch these players for years and make predictions, yet you post on the fact that you think he won't be a good pro? Amazing. Did you say that last week when he had 21 in his pro debut? Unreal what some of you people post on here....like you actually know. :facepalm
Uh, Darko Milicic, Kwame Brown, Michael Olowokandi, Sam Bowie, Greg Oden...the prognosticators ALWAYS get it right, don't they?

[Meticode]

Oh well, Cavs suck, what else is new?

[Rowe]

A 19 year old PG playing his first pro game after playing only 11 college basketball games is supposed to be "All world" in his first regular season game? Let alone playing with the scrubs Cleveland had on the floor with him.

I didnt expect much from Kyrie this season.

Hes basically a player who came out of HS to the NBA, you can tell he has a lot of learning to do when hes on the court but he is talented and will eventually become a good NBA player.

I dont think he'll be a superstar, but he definetly has the tools to be a #2 option type of "star".

[Sarcastic]

Oh well, Cavs suck, what else is new?

Which is good for next year's draft.

[CardiacKemba]

well thats just fine, but dont expect anybody to take you seriously if you post these things one game into his career.

He's basing his judgement not on this game but on his college career (or lack thereof), and how he hadn't really done anything too special in college to warrant the #1 draft selection. I somewhat agree with him too. But for the Cavs sake, I do hope he is a success.

[BankShot]

No free throws??

Where's PleezeBelieve?? :roll:

[MostHated305]

Oh well, Cavs suck, what else is new?


:roll:

Norris Cole > Kyrie

[RRR3]

:roll:

Norris Cole > Kyrie
Norris cole was arguably the Heat's worst player against Dallas. So I wouldn't talk.

[Kurosawa0]

Irving will be okay, but I think the odds are high that we won't look back on him as the best player of this year's draft.

[MostHated305]

Norris cole was arguably the Heat's worst player against Dallas. So I wouldn't talk.

You mad bruh?


:roll:

[BankShot]

Norris cole was arguably the Heat's worst player against Dallas. So I wouldn't talk.

Mickell Gladness says hello



0 points, 0 assists, 0 rebounds, 0 blocks, 0 steals, 2 personal fouls, in three minutes

[BankShot]

You mad bruh?


:roll:

He sounds like it.... not sure why, though, aren't you both Heat fans?? :confusedshrug:

[RRR3]

He sounds like it.... not sure why, though, aren't you both Heat fans?? :confusedshrug:
Im not a Heat fan LBJ is my 2nd favorite player tho. Getting tired of Hank and his buddies spamming about cole.

[MrRogers]

He was pressin' way too hard.

[beau_boy04]

2011 nba draft will ended up with complete busts and underachivers.

2012 will be a much stronger draft featuring many good PF/C prospects and some more :cheers:

Poor thing Clevelend, hahah

[irondarts]

Are the Cavs wishing they took Derrick Williams yet?
I doubt it, considering it was the first game of the season/first game of his career.


ISH - where overreacting happens.

[MMKM]

I doubt it, considering it was the first game of the season/first game of his career.


ISH - where overreacting happens.

Make sure you subscribe to this thread, see you in April.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Well Kyle Irving sucks...

[04mzwach]

Blame this kid!

http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab288/04mzwach/nickgilbert_crop_340x234.png

[Joshumitsu]

We'll see how he'll look like at the end of the year.

Very few Point Guards (and stars) do well until the last month of their rookie years.

[MiseryCityTexas]

so i guess the cavs lost.

[irondarts]

Make sure you subscribe to this thread, see you in April.
OK.

I bet he'll average 13/6 this year. Which isn't bad for a rookie PG on a horrible team. He needs to not press so much though. He wasn't good tonight, but I'm sure he'll be pretty good the rest of the year.

[chips93]

He was pressin' way too hard.

really?

he took a lot of open jumpers, just couldnt hit them tonight.

in terms of overall aggressiveness, i thought he was on the passive side, didnt try to attack the basket enough imo.

[Maniak]

This isn't a 1 game overreaction thread,

Yes it is.

[BankShot]

Yes it is.

It absolutely is. Its funny how hype/hate are so overblown by a single game, especially in the first game of the season.

A lot of people are going hogwild because of Rubio's debut, but failed to mention that Derrick Williams looked forced and over-excited pretty much the whole game.

[irondarts]

OP makes thread after Irving's first ever NBA game saying he sucks, then proceeds to say it's not a one game overreaction thread.

http://ylyl.co/images/2010_full.jpg

[RedBlackAttack]

Fixed the thread title with Irving's actual stat-line instead of the one pulled out of the @ss of the OP (where, somehow, 3-17 came from).

Kyrie had a rough opener, but it wasn't exactly unexpected. A 19-year-old rookie point guard making his first ever start (did not start in preseason) in his first ever regular season game after a shortened camp and preseason on a team with virtually no weapons...

Yeah, that is a recipe for success. He may or may not live up to the No. 1 selection. Personally, I don't give a sh!t. As long as he is a solid starting PG in this league, I will be happy. We will be in the lottery again this year... And probably next year. Plenty of time to continue this complete overhaul.

But, yeah... Irving's game was rough enough on its own without having OP just flat-out making stuff up.

[KG215]

I just don't see what he did to deserve a number 1 overall pick, not that it's his fault. This isn't a 1 game overreaction thread, he just doesn't project well to me as a pro, not number 1 well.

Who did in that draft class? Maybe Derrick Williams.

And did I miss something on Irving's size? He's 6'3" 190. When did that become small and/or undersized for a PG?

[RedBlackAttack]

Who did in that draft class? Maybe Derrick Williams.

And did I miss something on Irving's size? He's 6'3" 190. When did that become small and/or undersized for a PG?
The combine must have obviously fudged the numbers... for reasons unknown.

[chains5000]

This was expected, he was playing against defensive leyend Calder

[senelcoolidge]

This is so funny. After one game everyone either is a bust or is a future hall of famer on this forum. Give it some time. It seems like people here have the shortest attention spans in the world..damn.

[The Big Skinny]

2011 nba draft will ended up with complete busts and underachivers.

2012 will be a much stronger draft featuring many good PF/C prospects and some more :cheers:

Poor thing Clevelend, hahah

Who? Perry Jones, Jared Sullinger and Anthony Davis?

I don't really LIKE any of them. they are all tweeners IMO.

Perry Jones - jump shooting big man who has the highest potential of all of em

Jared Sullinger - beefy, skilled big man yet at 6'8/9 may be too undersized to make a splash

Anthony Davis - extremely overrated skinny shot blocking athletic freak. reminds me of a crappier Marcus Camby

I would argue that Harrison Barnes, MKG, Jeremy Lamb and Brad Beal are better pro prospects than the PF/C prospects.

[bballer]

that's a D-Rose shooting %

[bballer]

Who? Perry Jones, Jared Sullinger and Anthony Davis?

I don't really LIKE any of them. they are all tweeners IMO.

Perry Jones - jump shooting big man who has the highest potential of all of em

Jared Sullinger - beefy, skilled big man yet at 6'8/9 may be too undersized to make a splash

Anthony Davis - extremely overrated skinny shot blocking athletic freak. reminds me of a crappier Marcus Camby

I would argue that Harrison Barnes, MKG, Jeremy Lamb and Brad Beal are better pro prospects than the PF/C prospects.http://www.nbadraft.net/players/james-mcadoo

wait and see.

[Burgz]

this is for those who claim they can evaluate kyrie irving's potential based on the box score

yes he had a bad game

yes he has a lot of work to do

but watching the game, he got to the basket easily and he created a lot of opportunities for his teammates which they failed to covert for the most part

yes he was 1-5 but 2 of them were in the dying seconds and im pretty sure another one was a chuck at the end of the shot clock

if you actually watched the game last night then you would have seen that kyrie is very much a star in the making

keyword: IN THE MAKING

/rant

[trabash]

Derrick Rose'esque numbers (percentage) :oldlol:

[RedBlackAttack]

Kyrie's numbers since his debut...

Dec. 28 @ Detroit: 20 minutes, 14 points (5-9 FG, 4-4 FT), 7 assists, 4 rebounds, 2 steals, 3 turnovers

Dec. 30 @ Indiana: 34 minutes, 20 points (8-19 FG, 0-2 3PT, 4-7 FT), 4 assists, 5 rebounds, 1 steal, 1 block, 3 turnovers

Jan 1 vs. New Jersey: 28 minutes, 13 points (5-11 FG, 3-4 3PT), 4 assists, 4 rebounds, 2 blocks, 4 turnovers

Jan 3 vs. Charlotte: 20 minutes, 20 points (8-10 FG, 2-2 3PT, 2-2 FT), 6 assists, 3 rebounds, 2 blocks, 0 turnovers

Jan 4 @ Toronto: 26 minutes, 12 points (3-13 FG, 0-1 3PT, 6-6 FT), 4 assists, 3 rebounds, 2 turnovers

Jan 6 @ Minnesota: 30 minutes, 14 points (5-12 FG, 1-2 3PT, 3-3 FT), 5 assists, 5 rebounds, 1 block, 7 turnovers

Jan 8 @ Portland: 29 minutes, 21 points (9-17 FG, 0-3 3PT, 3-3 FT), 4 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 steal, 4 turnovers

Current season statistics:
15.0 points
44% FG (45/103)
88% FT (23/26)
37% 3PT (7/19)
5 assists (41)
4 rebounds (31)
1 steal
1 block


We'll keep you updated.

[bluechox2]

hes getting his nba legs, towards season's ends, he will be lights out

[lilojmayo]

Kyrie's numbers since his debut...

Dec. 28 @ Detroit: 20 minutes, 14 points (5-9 FG, 4-4 FT), 7 assists, 4 rebounds, 2 steals, 3 turnovers

Dec. 30 @ Indiana: 34 minutes, 20 points (8-19 FG, 0-2 3PT, 4-7 FT), 4 assists, 5 rebounds, 1 steal, 1 block, 3 turnovers

Jan 1 vs. New Jersey: 28 minutes, 13 points (5-11 FG, 3-4 3PT), 4 assists, 4 rebounds, 2 blocks, 4 turnovers

Jan 3 vs. Charlotte: 20 minutes, 20 points (8-10 FG, 2-2 3PT, 2-2 FT), 6 assists, 3 rebounds, 2 blocks, 0 turnovers

Current season statistics:
14.6 points
46% FG
78% FT
46% 3PT
6 assists
4 rebounds
1 steal
1 block


We'll keep you updated.

Kyrie Irving is a great player, will be an all-star. But he not going to be leading the Cavs no championship anytime within the next 8 seasons. This isn't even regarding LeBron/Wade, Melo's Knicks, Rose's Bulls.

your going to need a superstar to fix what Cavs after what LeBron did to them.

[RedBlackAttack]

Kyrie Irving is a great player, will be an all-star. But he not going to be leading the Cavs no championship anytime within the next 8 seasons. This isn't even regarding LeBron/Wade, Melo's Knicks, Rose's Bulls.

your going to need a superstar to fix what Cavs after what LeBron did to them.
A. Who said that Irving was going to lead the team to a championship?

B. I'd rather not all the success for a franchise go to one person. Better to have a complete team with working parts that actually performs well together. I believe we have attained several pieces that have pushed us closer to that goal.

C. The post you reference was in response to an overreaction thread created after a guy's first ever NBA game. Suddenly, these prognosticators are nowhere to be found. I will continue to update the thread throughout the year.

[RedBlackAttack]

Kyrie Irving Chasedown block on DJ Augustin - Bobcats vs Cavaliers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIBKq_wuOug&feature=player_embedded)

[NumberSix]

Wait a sc..... Cleveland has a team?

[Collie]

Truth be told, I like Kyrie's game better than Wall. Seems steadier and smarter. Guy reminds me of a young Tim Hardaway with the way he controls the floor.

[PTB Fan]

Irving is a future All-Star. Book it.

[Rnbizzle]

Yeah for some reason he really seems in control. Like he knows what he's doing out there.

[RedBlackAttack]

1/27/2012

Kyrie Irving vs. New Jersey Nets

32 points (12-20 FG, 2-5 3PT, 6-8 FT), 6 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals, 1 turnover


This included 21 points in the 4th quarter alone. He scored 17 of the Cavs' last 19 points in the final 2:19.

Where is MMKM? I thought he was keeping track of this stuff?


Are the Cavs wishing they took Derrick Williams yet?

:facepalm

[irondarts]

Make sure you subscribe to this thread, see you in April.
It only took to late January to prove you wrong.

[RedBlackAttack]

Tonight's takeover against the Nets in the 4th quarter will soon be on YouTube, I'm sure.

Enjoy it, MMKM.

[Meticode]

Sucks they came up short though, Cavs been struggling at home.

[RedBlackAttack]

Sucks they came up short though, Cavs been struggling at home.
Do you really care about wins and losses? I mean, it is nice to get an occasional win for morale and whatnot, but... I want one of those beasts in the 2012 draft!

We do that and this rebuild might be over. That is amazing.

[Kiddlovesnets]

The problem with Kyle Irving is that he is not a very good playmaker so hes pretty much useless when he aint making his shots.

[RedBlackAttack]

The problem with Kyle Irving is that he is not a very good playmaker so hes pretty much useless when he aint making his shots.
I think that is ridiculous. First of all, he's 19. Secondly, he set up a few plays tonight absolutely perfectly and point-blank layups were missed... multiple times... mostly be Jamison.

It is tough to playmake when the other best scorer on the team literally cannot score without setting it up for himself. Jamison might be the worst assist destroyer I have ever seen.

[noob cake]

The problem with Kyle Irving is that he is not a very good playmaker so hes pretty much useless when he aint making his shots.

Dude, I've probably posted this like 20x times on IH already.

Irving is a pure point guard 150%

Just because he can score the basketball like our beloved MVP Rose doesn't mean he is a chucking scoring PG in Rose's mold.

Haters initially were hating on Irving before the season by labeling him as a bust. Haters are still hating on his number of assists.

[Meticode]

Do you really care about wins and losses?
I care about wins a losses as much as you do. Except you care that we lose a lot to gain a percentage advantage in the draft...which I'm all for, but it would be cool to see them win some close games like this against shitty teams. Especially at home to have the fans walk away feeling good at least.

Just saying.

[Ronin]

The problem with Kyle Irving is that he is not a very good playmaker so hes pretty much useless when he aint making his shots.

you don't seem to like the kid much.

Keep in mind he's very young and basically running his own team. While shooting close to 50%

[RedBlackAttack]

I care about wins a losses as much as you do. Except you care that we lose a lot to gain a percentage advantage in the draft...which I'm all for, but it would be cool to see them win some close games like this against shitty teams. Especially at home to have the fans walk away feeling good at least.

Just saying.
No, I'm with you. When Kyrie was going nuts at the end of that game, trust me, I was hoping that we were going to complete the comeback. But, I'm just saying that I'm not necessarily upset that we didn't.

In the heat of the game, of course I want the Cavs to win every night. But, when it's all over and done with, it is probably better if we continue to win about every three games or so.

[GOBB]

Classic example of jumping the gun. In the end your foot will be placed in your mouth. Whats that? Wait what? I cant understand what you are saying. :roll:

[PTB Fan]

Dude, I've probably posted this like 20x times on IH already.

Irving is a pure point guard 150%

Just because he can score the basketball like our beloved MVP Rose doesn't mean he is a chucking scoring PG in Rose's mold.

Haters initially were hating on Irving before the season by labeling him as a bust. Haters are still hating on his number of assists.

Agreed.

Kyrie isn't a scoring first PG. He's a remarkable passer, who can involve his team mates really well. Unfortunately, they either make the extra pass or just miss most of the shots they take on his assists.

These guys haven't watched enough Cavalier games to conclude that Kyrie is a great playmaker.

[GOBB]

Agreed.

Kyrie isn't a scoring first PG. He's a remarkable passer, who can involve his team mates really well. Unfortunately, they either make the extra pass or just miss most of the shots they take on his assists.

These guys haven't watched enough Cavalier games to conclude that Kyrie is a great playmaker.

The games I watched he comes down and attacks, looks to score. He made one nice bounce pass to Andy V because the defense collasped on him as he had every intention on taking it to the rim. If he's done, showed anything that you cant really knock? His offensive game is pretty solid. Impressive scorer given his tenure in college and so far in the NBA. To say he is incapable of being a playmaker, not much of one? I cant say that. I can say I'd like to see him actually perform the role/duties of a PG and make guys better. By making them better it doesnt mean literally.

The "guys miss shots" argument can be used with any player, even in other sports. I dont give passes for it, but at the same time dont limit what he can do. I wanted to see Rose do, this and that and well he improved his game and did. Kyrie Irving is no different. He has areas to improve upon.

[PTB Fan]

The games I watched he comes down and attacks, looks to score. He made one nice bounce pass to Andy V because the defense collasped on him as he had every intention on taking it to the rim. If he's done, showed anything that you cant really knock? His offensive game is pretty solid. Impressive scorer given his tenure in college and so far in the NBA. To say he is incapable of being a playmaker, not much of one? I cant say that. I can say I'd like to see him actually perform the role/duties of a PG and make guys better. By making them better it doesnt mean literally.

The "guys miss shots" argument can be used with any player, even in other sports. I dont give passes for it, but at the same time dont limit what he can do. I wanted to see Rose do, this and that and well he improved his game and did. Kyrie Irving is no different. He has areas to improve upon.

Kyrie often goes to the rim. Can't deny that. He's a great passer who involves his team mates well. It's just that when he does that, they either make the extra pass or don't always connect.

There're ton of examples. Kyrie goes on the brake, passes to Caspi for the easy lay up.. and Caspi does an extra pass to Andy V for the jam. Irving goes to the basket, passes the ball to an open Parker.. who instead of taking the shot, just passes to another man.

There're more similar examples.

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't think that anyone is saying that he is a finished product or that he doesn't have a lot of things he needs to work on. That is sort of the whole point, though.

It is hard to blame fans for being fired up that a guy this young with so little experience and that people so casually dismissed as the product of a weak draft has started his career looking so damned good.


Kid is now averaging 18 points on 50.4% from the field, 5 assists, 4 rebounds and a PER of 22.26.

Who say that coming? I was probably higher on him than anyone on this board going into the draft and I never imagined that he would be this good this soon. So, yeah... He has a lot to work on. But, with starting out as good as he has, if he works hard on the parts of his game that are a little weak at the moment, the sky is the limit.

[GOBB]

I do think last years draft was weak. But not because of Irving/Williams. I know some fans include them in the equation for weak draft. But some guys went higher than they would in a stronger draft. They took advantage of all the guys going back to school. Cant knock them on it.

Cleveland made the right choice going with Kyrie Irving. Hope he continues to progress as a player which I'm sure he will. :cheers:


Kyrie often goes to the rim. Can't deny that. He's a great passer who involves his team mates well. It's just that when he does that, they either make the extra pass or don't always connect.

There're ton of examples. Kyrie goes on the brake, passes to Caspi for the easy lay up.. and Caspi does an extra pass to Andy V for the jam. Irving goes to the basket, passes the ball to an open Parker.. who instead of taking the shot, just passes to another man.

There're more similar examples.

No doubt about that. But check out the NJN highlights of him scoring. He was locked in on what he wanted to do which was attack the rim. He was successful. And I'm not knocking him on this. I'm not saying he should stop being aggressive offensively. Just find a balance which I'm sure he will. Afterall he's a rookie on a crap team (sorry) so I dont want to come off as my criticism is negative. There are folks who do that when it comes to Kyrie tho. I'm interested in seeing how he pans out and improves. I'll say this though, John Wall has more of a ways to go to improve than Irving does. Never thought I'd say that, but slowly thats becoming the case. I'm not gonna jump off the ship on Wall. But Kyrie Irving isnt going to overnight lose his shot, lose his crafty ability to get to the rim overnight. Wall is super fast, but Irving is on his heels. I know Cavs fans feel he is ahead of him. No argument from me.

The NBA PG talent is ridiculously talented. CP3, DWill, Rondo, Rose, Westbrook, Curry, J.Holiday, K.Irving, J.Wall, Rubio, B.Jennings, Ty Lawson, J.Teague fellow rookie B.Knight :bowdown:

[RedBlackAttack]

I do think last years draft was weak. But not because of Irving/Williams. I know some fans include them in the equation for weak draft. But some guys went higher than they would in a stronger draft. They took advantage of all the guys going back to school. Cant knock them on it.

Cleveland made the right choice going with Kyrie Irving. Hope he continues to progress as a player which I'm sure he will. :cheers:

That was my feeling about last year's draft all along... A legitimate No. 1 pick in ANY draft, but a significant drop thereafter and, yeah, that is what separates this coming draft from last year's draft. Irving would be at or near the top in ANY class and I think he is showing people why. The real difference comes when you look at picks 2-20.

I'm not sure Derrick Williams would be a Top 10 pick in this coming draft and that has nothing to do with his relatively quiet start. I'm talking about just based on his college production and how he was viewed coming out of college. There was so little depth in this class (especially once Sullinger, Jones and Barnes dropped out) that a nice series of games in the tournament vaulted Williams from a middle of the lottery guy to a no-doubt No. 2 pick.

And, yeah... Lots of people through Kyrie into that group. I remember several people telling me that they felt sorry for us Cavs fans that we got the No. 1 pick in such a weak year. The truth is, there couldn't have been a better year to get that top pick, the gulf between Kyrie and everyone else was so incredibly large and there was such little depth.

In this coming draft, you don't have to get the top pick or even a Top 5 pick to draft a guy that could be a legitimate star.

If we wouldn't have gotten Kyrie last year, it would have been a huge blow. If we don't get Drummond in this draft, am I upset about Davis or MKG or Barnes or Jones or Lamb or Robinson, etc?

Hell no. You almost can't go wrong with a lottery pick in this draft.


No doubt about that. But check out the NJN highlights of him scoring. He was locked in on what he wanted to do which was attack the rim. He was successful. And I'm not knocking him on this. I'm not saying he should stop being aggressive offensively. Just find a balance which I'm sure he will. Afterall he's a rookie on a crap team (sorry) so I dont want to come off as my criticism is negative. There are folks who do that when it comes to Kyrie tho. I'm interested in seeing how he pans out and improves. I'll say this though, John Wall has more of a ways to go to improve than Irving does. Never thought I'd say that, but slowly thats becoming the case. I'm not gonna jump off the ship on Wall. But Kyrie Irving isnt going to overnight lose his shot, lose his crafty ability to get to the rim overnight. Wall is super fast, but Irving is on his heels. I know Cavs fans feel he is ahead of him. No argument from me.

The NBA PG talent is ridiculously talented. CP3, DWill, Rondo, Rose, Westbrook, Curry, J.Holiday, K.Irving, J.Wall, Rubio, B.Jennings, Ty Lawson, J.Teague fellow rookie B.Knight :bowdown:

Yes, the point guard position is incredibly loaded in the league right now. And, yes, there is no doubt that, given the choice, I would take Kyrie over Wall. Like you said, Irving doesn't depend on his athleticism to make an impact. He is more athletic than a lot of people think, but his jumper and natural ball-handling skills separate him in terms of skill.

I'm not a big 'PER' guy and I think these newfangled statistics are just another way that people are trying to skirt around actually watching the games and trying to quantify a good player with numbers instead of knowing what to look for in their respective games...

But, it does tell you something about a player... And, for Irving to have a 22.26 PER just 18 games into his career really does say a ton. That is higher than guys like Carmelo, Chris Bosh, Steve Nash, Rondo, Dirk, Pierce, etc.

And, the only PGs in the league with a higher PER are Derrick Rose (24.31), Chris Paul (24.05) and Russ Westbrook (22.41).

There is no other rookie in the same stratosphere.

[PTB Fan]

I do think last years draft was weak. But not because of Irving/Williams. I know some fans include them in the equation for weak draft. But some guys went higher than they would in a stronger draft. They took advantage of all the guys going back to school. Cant knock them on it.

Cleveland made the right choice going with Kyrie Irving. Hope he continues to progress as a player which I'm sure he will. :cheers:



No doubt about that. But check out the NJN highlights of him scoring. He was locked in on what he wanted to do which was attack the rim. He was successful. And I'm not knocking him on this. I'm not saying he should stop being aggressive offensively. Just find a balance which I'm sure he will. Afterall he's a rookie on a crap team (sorry) so I dont want to come off as my criticism is negative. There are folks who do that when it comes to Kyrie tho. I'm interested in seeing how he pans out and improves. I'll say this though, John Wall has more of a ways to go to improve than Irving does. Never thought I'd say that, but slowly thats becoming the case. I'm not gonna jump off the ship on Wall. But Kyrie Irving isnt going to overnight lose his shot, lose his crafty ability to get to the rim overnight. Wall is super fast, but Irving is on his heels. I know Cavs fans feel he is ahead of him. No argument from me.

The NBA PG talent is ridiculously talented. CP3, DWill, Rondo, Rose, Westbrook, Curry, J.Holiday, K.Irving, J.Wall, Rubio, B.Jennings, Ty Lawson, J.Teague fellow rookie B.Knight :bowdown:

Solid points.

[1987_Lakers]

I love the fact that he is very fundamentally sound, plays defense & is a great shooter at such a young age. He has very little holes in his game and he will only get better. Irving will have a better career than John Wall.

[FireDavidKahn]

I love the fact that he is very fundamentally sound, plays defense & is a great shooter at such a young age. He has very little holes in his game and he will only get better. Irving will have a better career than John Wall.
I've only seen Irving play twice, but he plays defense? HIs coach doesn't think so...

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2012/01/kyrie_irvings_defense_a_growin.html


Scott met with his rookie point guard Saturday in Atlanta to discuss the youngster's lax defense, which has been a source of consternation for the coach since the season started. In his most pointed comments to date, Scott said Irving's minutes won't increase until the No. 1 overall draft pick elevates his defensive intensity.

...

"Sometimes I hesitate, but a lot of times I'm looking at how he's playing on the defensive end," Scott said. "C.J. Watson to me almost looked like Rose the way he was going by him.
"If you can't get stops it doesn't matter what you are doing offensively because sooner or later you're going to cool down."

...

Irving admits there are moments he takes a "breather" on both ends of the floor. Scott said it should never occur on the defensive end.
"He's a defensive-minded coach and he was a defensive-minded player," Irving said. "I kind of appreciate him giving it to me like that because I do have to get better. It's all about what my man is doing. I take full responsibility for it."

I do agree with him having a better career than Wall. I think Wall is extremely overrated due to his athleticism. Anyone who can make amazing dunks always gets overrated on this site.

[noob cake]

I've only seen Irving play twice, but he plays defense? HIs coach doesn't think so...

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2012/01/kyrie_irvings_defense_a_growin.html



I do agree with him having a better career than Wall. I think Wall is extremely overrated due to his athleticism. Anyone who can make amazing dunks always gets overrated on this site.

19 YEAR OLD ROOKIE CAN'T PLAY DEFENSE.

I am surprised.

[FireDavidKahn]

19 YEAR OLD ROOKIE CAN'T PLAY DEFENSE.

I am surprised.
LOL

I am not hating on the kid, He is my favorite young PG after Rubio and I want him to succeed. He is very fun to watch. But to proclaim he plays defense right now isn't accurate. Just because I say something negative about him doesn't mean I am hating or that it isn't true.

[1987_Lakers]

I've only seen Irving play twice, but he plays defense? HIs coach doesn't think so...

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2012/01/kyrie_irvings_defense_a_growin.html



I do agree with him having a better career than Wall. I think Wall is extremely overrated due to his athleticism. Anyone who can make amazing dunks always gets overrated on this site.

In college he was a very good defender, give him some time, he will be fine on the defensive end.

[RedBlackAttack]

I've only seen Irving play twice, but he plays defense? HIs coach doesn't think so...

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2012/01/kyrie_irvings_defense_a_growin.html



I do agree with him having a better career than Wall. I think Wall is extremely overrated due to his athleticism. Anyone who can make amazing dunks always gets overrated on this site.
He is almost as bad defensively as LeBron James was to start his rookie year. Almost.

That is generally the most difficult transition for players coming into the league, especially ones this young. He is tall and long for the position and he has a good history in the lower levels of being very good defensively. I have no doubt that he will come around, probably sooner rather than later.

But, no... Right now, he is not a good defender. As expected.

[RedBlackAttack]

I updated this thread quite a bit during the start of last season.

Let's run down what has happened since we last met here...

Kyrie finished his first year in Cleveland as the run-away Rookie of the Year, a nearly unanimous vote.


We are now seven games into his second season. He's doing OK for a total bust...

34.7 minutes
22.9 points (47.2% FG, 45.2% 3PT)
6.3 assists
4.1 rebounds


I'll keep you updated, OP. :cheers:

[InspiredLebowski]

Irving's about to be a bona fide superstar. Already would be if he weren't in Cleveland. Can't say enough about how much I like him, and he's freaking 20 years old.

Only PG I'd take over him no questions asked is Paul, and it has nothing to do with age or money. There's arguments for...well, Rondo, and that's about it, depending on team makeup.

[RedBlackAttack]

Irving's about to be a bona fide superstar. Already would be if he weren't in Cleveland. Can't say enough about how much I like him, and he's freaking 20 years old.

Only PG I'd take over him no questions asked is Paul, and it has nothing to do with age or money. There's arguments for...well, Rondo, and that's about it, depending on team makeup.
I'd take it even a step further... there isn't a young player in the league right now (23 and under) I would take over him.

His combination of sneaky athleticism, skill, strength (underrated), temperament, leadership, ability to control tempo, and cold-blooded attitude down the stretch...


He was a basically unstoppable scorer last season when he needed to be for a Cavs team completely replete of guys who could put the ball in the basket. Now, with Waiters, we are beginning to see his playmaking skills.

He is definitely one of the most well-rounded offensive players I have ever seen at that age.

[dbk123]

lmao at the first 5 pages

[brandonislegend]

I'd take him as my pg over anyone in the league if I was starting a franchise

[zizozain]

MMKM where you at?

[RedBlackAttack]

MMKM where you at?
Last Activity: 11-11-2012 01:20 AM

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/member.php?u=34035

[alenleomessi]

need to upgrade his assists per game to be considered even close to the top 5 pgs in the league... i dont care if he has shitty teammates thats not an excuse... look at cp3 early years with the hornets

[brandonislegend]

need to upgrade his assists per game to be considered even close to the top 5 pgs in the league... i dont care if he has shitty teammates thats not an excuse... look at cp3 early years with the hornets
The hornets had shooters and David west, Irving has varejao and cj miles shooting like 9%
:roll:

[RedBlackAttack]

need to upgrade his assists per game to be considered even close to the top 5 pgs in the league... i dont care if he has shitty teammates thats not an excuse... look at cp3 early years with the hornets
6.3 per game so far this year. 7.4 in the last five games. His assist numbers are actually increasing dramatically.

Here are his last five games...

@Bucks - 27 points, 7 assists, 4 rebounds
@Clippers - 24 points, 10 assists, 4 rebounds
@Warriors - 28 points, 7 assists, 6 rebounds
@Suns - 17 points, 8 assists, 4 rebounds
@Thunder - 20 points, 5 assists, 4 rebounds

Not too shabby for a 20-year-old. CP3 averaged 7.8 assists his rookie year and 8.9 assists in his second season. No doubt he came into the league a more refined playmaker, but Kyrie was drafted into a completely different situation and has been asked to be the primary scorer right from the jump.

I'd say 6-7 assists per game at this stage of his career is pretty damn good considering he is 6th in the NBA in scoring and 3rd among guards.


And, "even close" to a Top 5 PG in the league? He may not be there quite yet, but he is close.

[brandonislegend]

his team sucks dick can't finish a layup or open shot I've watched every cav game cause I took Irving first round on my fantasy team I get so ****ing pissed with the open shots his team missed.

[RedBlackAttack]

his team sucks dick can't finish a layup or open shot I've watched every cav game cause I took Irving first round on my fantasy team I get so ****ing pissed with the open shots his team missed.
Erm, I've watched every Cavs game for the two years (for decades, actually)... Kyrie definitely needed to improve his playmaking from where he was as a rookie. I've seen significant strides this year.

The Cavs could really use a good shooting PF or C who can play the pick and pop game with him, but Waiters has made a pretty large impact already in helping Kyrie with the scoring load and Varejao has also helped a lot. Andy and Kyrie have a very good partnership on the court and play together very well.

Last year, there wasn't much around him. This year? I think that is a bit of an overstatement. The offense is much improved and it is showing in his overall numbers.

[InspiredLebowski]

Irving is right now a top 5 PG in the league. Higher than that. He's better than Deron Williams right now. To say otherwise just means you need to watch him play. Paul's the only PG that has an open and shut case against him. The rest are completely debatable based on team makeup.

[brandonislegend]

Erm, I've watched every Cavs game for the two years (for decades, actually)... Kyrie definitely needed to improve his playmaking from where he was as a rookie. I've seen significant strides this year.

The Cavs could really use a good shooting PF or C who can play the pick and pop game with him, but Waiters has made a pretty large impact already in helping Kyrie with the scoring load and Varejao has also helped a lot. Andy and Kyrie have a very good partnership on the court and play together very well.

Last year, there wasn't much around him. This year? I think that is a bit of an overstatement. The offense is much improved and it is showing in his overall numbers.

varejao is nice but waiters is streaky and if those are your best 2 options you have a problem.

[RedBlackAttack]

varejao is nice but waiters is streaky and if those are your best 2 options you have a problem.
Waiters may prove to be streaky, but he hasn't been streaky so far this year... 49% from the field? 53.1% from three?

And, Waiters was drafted FOURTH overall to be that option you are speaking of. So far, he is playing the role. Varejao has been playing like one of the best centers in the league so far this year.

I'd say as a team which could grow together, those are pretty nice options. Zeller has shown promise, too, prior to his concussion. It isn't as bleak as you are making it sound. The Cavs have one of the better young cores in the league.

[RRR3]

When's T-Zelly (can I call him that? :D ) coming back?

[KG215]

The Cavs could really use a good shooting PF or C who can play the pick and pop game with him.
Do you think Zeller could eventually be that? I think he's shown the ability to hit that shot, granted it's an extremely small sample size. Zeller probably won't ever be more than 12ish PPG scorer, but he has nice touch 15-18 feet out.

[The_Yearning]

What's up with this dude free throw shooting? He barely missed last year.

[KG215]

Waiters may prove to be streaky, but he hasn't been streaky so far this year... 49% from the field? 53.1% from three?

And, Waiters was drafted FOURTH overall to be that option you are speaking of. So far, he is playing the role. Varejao has been playing like one of the best centers in the league so far this year.

I'd say as a team which could grow together, those are pretty nice options. Zeller has shown promise, too, prior to his concussion. It isn't as bleak as you are making it sound. The Cavs have one of the better young cores in the league.
Yeah, I've only seen two Cavs games (the Clippers game and Thunder game) but they've got four or five nice pieces to build around. I don't know if Varejao (at 30 years old) is in their long term plans, but you've still got Irving, Waiters, Tristan Thompson, and Zeller. The core is good, but the bench is, to be blunt, awful. Or at least that was my impression in the games I saw. In the Thunder game, the starters were able to make a game of it, but all hell seemed to break loose for Cleveland when their second unit was in the game. Guys like Samardo Samuels, John Leuer, Donald Sloan, and Omri Casspi are borderline rotation players at best.

[RedBlackAttack]

Irving is right now a top 5 PG in the league. Higher than that. He's better than Deron Williams right now. To say otherwise just means you need to watch him play. Paul's the only PG that has an open and shut case against him. The rest are completely debatable based on team makeup.
He is creeping up that list... There is no doubt.

As great as Kyrie was for a rookie, though, he has improved his game quite a bit this season.

He leads all NBA point guards in scoring...
1. Kyrie Irving - 22.9 points (47.2%)
2. Russell Westbrook - 21.1 (40.5%)

[RedBlackAttack]

When's T-Zelly (can I call him that? :D ) coming back?
Still out indefinitely with a concussion and broken orbital bone. I'm guessing it won't be too much longer, though. I'm sure he will have to wear a protective mask for much of the season.


Do you think Zeller could eventually be that? I think he's shown the ability to hit that shot, granted it's an extremely small sample size. Zeller probably won't ever be more than 12ish PPG scorer, but he has nice touch 15-18 feet out.

Yes, I do think he could eventually be that guy. Although, I think Zeller's ideal role on a really good team would be as one of the first guys off the bench, either as a backup center if we go small or a backup PF if we go big. He's versatile, can hit that 15-18 footer and he runs the floor like a champ. Great intangibles guy, from what I've seen. Then again, if he continues to work, he could become a good starter. We'll see. I like his game so far, though.


What's up with this dude free throw shooting? He barely missed last year.

His free throws have been off for whatever reason so far this year. He is a little under 80% so far, which is absolutely awful for Kyrie... Who is normally hanging around 90%. I don't think it will be something which will last much longer... And, to think, he is in the Top 6 in the league in scoring and he isn't making free throws at his normal rate.


Yeah, I've only seen two Cavs games (the Clippers game and Thunder game) but they've got four or five nice pieces to build around. I don't know if Varejao (at 30 years old) is in their long term plans, but you've still got Irving, Waiters, Tristan Thompson, and Zeller. The core is good, but the bench is, to be blunt, awful. Or at least that was my impression in the games I saw. In the Thunder game, the starters were able to make a game of it, but all hell seemed to break loose for Cleveland when their second unit was in the game. Guys like Samardo Samuels, John Leuer, Donald Sloan, and Omri Casspi are borderline rotation players at best.

It has to be the worst bench in the NBA. I'd say, even with a mediocre bench, this team would be .500 right now at the very least. It's funny... the starters almost always leave the game in a close game or with a lead and almost always step back on the floor facing a deficit.

Something has to be done. Or, we could just shoot for another Top 5 pick.

[RRR3]

Trail Blazers have the worst bench on lock. Sucks about Zeller.

[bingoa]

Irving is right now a top 5 PG in the league. Higher than that. He's better than Deron Williams right now. To say otherwise just means you need to watch him play. Paul's the only PG that has an open and shut case against him. The rest are completely debatable based on team makeup.
Tru facts.:cheers:

[Meticode]

Irving is right now a top 5 PG in the league. Higher than that. He's better than Deron Williams right now. To say otherwise just means you need to watch him play. Paul's the only PG that has an open and shut case against him. The rest are completely debatable based on team makeup.
Rondo...

15.4 PPG
12.9 APG
5.1 RPG
2.3 SPG
53% FG%

...leading the Celtics at this point and is second behind Paul to me at least.

[Meticode]

Trail Blazers have the worst bench on lock. Sucks about Zeller.
Zeller is expected back soon. The concussion is what is keeping him from being cleared to play, not the cheekbone fracture. They said he will not play Brooklyn, but he'll have a chance to play Saturday. If not then, very soon.

[Meticode]

Still out indefinitely with a concussion and broken orbital bone. I'm guessing it won't be too much longer, though. I'm sure he will have to wear a protective mask for much of the season.
Check the Cavaliers forum for my thread. He wasn't cleared to play Brooklyn, but there's a good chance he'll be cleared for Saturday's game, if not then very, very soon. The concussion is what is holding him out, not the fracture. So he'll probably have a mask.

[Meticode]

What's up with this dude free throw shooting? He barely missed last year.
I think it's because he changed his routine at the freethrow line. He now shoots the ball literally a foot behind the line. During the game they said he's doing that now because he has the knack of stepping forward getting a violation. I'm not sure if I noticed him having problems with that at all last season or not. But in any case he's only shot 30-40 freethrows or so. If he makes like 10 in a row he'll be back up near his averages last season.

[InspiredLebowski]

Rondo...

15.4 PPG
12.9 APG
5.1 RPG
2.3 SPG
53% FG%

...leading the Celtics at this point and is second behind Paul to me at least.Like I said, the rest depends on team makeup, and like I said earlier Rondo's the only one I may rather have.

Put Rondo on this Cavs team. Think he's performing as well as Irving? I don't. Put Irving on this Celtics team, think he's performing close to what Rondo's doing? He's not dishing as many dimes, he's probably not as efficient, he's absolutely not the defensive disruptor Rondo is, but I think he could do 16/10 fairly easily. Irving's far more adaptable than Rondo. But if you've got a team full of stellar offensive options you can easily argue for Rondo. But if you have a team with basically a bunch of, while talented, unproven nobodies, Rondo's not the guy you take.

Either way, just having the debate shows how good Irving is. Rondo's a no doubt about it top 5 PG and depending on your (ok, MY) preference, Irving's right there with him as a 2nd year 20 year old.

[TheCorporation]

:lol

I love these threads

[Doranku]

:roll: This is what happens when you make outlandish predictions after a single game.

Kyrie is a stud, plain and simple. Best PG in the league in 3-4 years.

[brandonislegend]

Like I said, the rest depends on team makeup, and like I said earlier Rondo's the only one I may rather have.

Put Rondo on this Cavs team. Think he's performing as well as Irving? I don't. Put Irving on this Celtics team, think he's performing close to what Rondo's doing? He's not dishing as many dimes, he's probably not as efficient, he's absolutely not the defensive disruptor Rondo is, but I think he could do 16/10 fairly easily. Irving's far more adaptable than Rondo. But if you've got a team full of stellar offensive options you can easily argue for Rondo. But if you have a team with basically a bunch of, while talented, unproven nobodies, Rondo's not the guy you take.

Either way, just having the debate shows how good Irving is. Rondo's a no doubt about it top 5 PG and depending on your (ok, MY) preference, Irving's right there with him as a 2nd year 20 year old.

Good post and I completely agree.

[RedBlackAttack]

We were updating this thread for a while with Kyrie's exploits as his rookie and second season went along. Just thought I'd give another quick update of Irving's career thus far.

He just turned 22 and he has earned...

Rookie of the Year
3 Point Shooting Champion
Rookie-Sophomore Game MVP
All-Star Game MVP
FIBA World Cup MVP
FIBA World Cup Gold Medalist

So, to answer the OP...



Are the Cavs wishing they took Derrick Williams yet?

No.

[RRR3]

Making this thread certainly wasn't one of OP's greatest achievements.

[Legends66NBA7]

Why are we bumping 2 year old threads ?

[RedBlackAttack]

Why are we bumping 2 year old threads ?
For obvious reasons, under the circumstances. OP claims he was a bust after his first game. He just blew up on the international scene and has already accumulated a respectable resume for a 22-year-old. And Derrick Williams is barely holding onto a roster spot.

That's why.

[Legends66NBA7]

For obvious reasons, under the circumstances. OP claims he was a bust after his first game. He just blew up on the international scene and has already accumulated a respectable resume for a 22-year-old. And Derrick Williams is barely holding onto a roster spot.

That's why.

This isn't going to be locked ?

[RedBlackAttack]

This isn't going to be locked ?
Why in god's name would I lock it?

[Legends66NBA7]

Why in god's name would I lock it?

Old thread (reactionary at best), waste of space. Doesn't date with what's currently happening.

[JohnFreeman]

DTrill!

[RedBlackAttack]

Old thread (reactionary at best), waste of space. Doesn't date with what's currently happening.
It's a thread about him being a bust and not worthy of a No. 1 pick. Today added to what has been an impressive first three years to his career, despite playing on some young/inexperienced/bad teams.

And, most threads are "reactionary." We're all reacting to what we see on the basketball court. The OP took a grand leap based on his collegiate career and his first game. Turned out that he was completely wrong.

Revisiting the topic three years later to point out that fact seems more than appropriate today. Of course, you are always free to not post in it. I still haven't heard a coherent reason why it should be locked. It's totally basketball related.

[RedBlackAttack]

https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0Gqe2PIberuUjLKU/giphy.gif

[FKAri]

Derrick Williams :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[ArbitraryWater]

op doesnt know how to read a boxscore

irving was 2-12 overall, and 1-5 on threes.

irving couldnt hit from outside, he got a lot of attention from the raps defense. he showed some really nice passing.



what the hell is it then? :roll:

he plays one bad game, you make a thread specifically about that one bad game, and then say he will have a disappointing career as a result.

is there something im missing here?

so this was the point were OP learned threes arent counted seperately than FG/FGA? :lol All before he thought FG/FGA was only 2's? :oldlol:

[RedBlackAttack]

Derrick Williams :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Kyrie was always a very easy pick to me. The one that is really starting to pay dividends is getting Tristan at #4. Everyone -- including me -- thought they were going to take Valanciunas with that pick.

With the work Tristan just did in The Finals and thinking about how Valanciunas' game would have almost certainly been eaten alive by Golden State's smaller lineups... Really a great pick in retrospect (even though Val is a good player too).

But, yeah...

There was a really large group of people made up of both Cavs fans and the general public who thought the Cavs should take the best wing in the draft first overall (Derrick Williams) and then grab the second best PG at #4 (Brandon Knight). :oldlol:

[CTbasketball92]

I'd take it even a step further... there isn't a young player in the league right now (23 and under) I would take over him.

His combination of sneaky athleticism, skill, strength (underrated), temperament, leadership, ability to control tempo, and cold-blooded attitude down the stretch...


He was a basically unstoppable scorer last season when he needed to be for a Cavs team completely replete of guys who could put the ball in the basket. Now, with Waiters, we are beginning to see his playmaking skills.

He is definitely one of the most well-rounded offensive players I have ever seen at that age.

Has he pretty much progressed the way you thought he would?

[Doranku]

Has he pretty much progressed the way you thought he would?

I don't think anyone predicted Kyrie would be this good, especially with the injury concerns he had when he was drafted.

Dude has one of most complete scoring skillsets in the game, and arguably the best handle. Where he really needs to improve is his playmaking/defense, but he's shown that he's capable of being an above-average defender this past playoffs.

And he's only 24, so he's still got plenty of time to refine his game. Depending on how long LeBron can play at an elite level, the Cavs are going to be a scary team for years to come.

[Orlando Magic]

Kyrie is a damn impressive player with the most aesthetically pleasing finishes around the rim in the entire league, but he's quickly becoming overrated. He would be a first round and out AT BEST type of player without lebron. Kyrie gets his but he doesn't really make anyone better. I just hope he doesn't buy into his own hype and it leading to the premature end of the current cavs run. But apparently he thinks he's already capable of or very soon to be the best player on a title contender based on his comments after the finals. Delusional.