is it safe to say the tale of Kobe's demise has been greatly exaggerated? [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

heyhey

12-30-2011, 01:07 AM

before the season, all we heard was how Kobe can't carry a team anymore, not elite anymore, not even a top 5 player anymore.

I think a lot of that is just lazy speculation and journalism. We as spectators like to mold what we see into these cookie cutter narratives and we prescribe to Kobe this precipitous decline because of his age but his actual performance doesn't reflect that at all.

So far 3 games in, even with a wrist injury, Kobe is putting up 28/7/6 and with another great game at the half against the Knicks.

Even just watching him play, he's faster and has an easier time getting to the rim than last year. So maybe we should stop burying Kobe :confusedshrug:

9erEmpire

12-30-2011, 01:14 AM

It's been going on since 08.

Granted he's not the same player but he is still the best.

He makes it look so easy.

konex

12-30-2011, 01:14 AM

People saw his stats drop the last 2 seasons but didn't look at his minutes played...

Mr. I'm So Rad

12-30-2011, 01:16 AM

The only thing is his fingers. Kobe's knees look great but his hands are f*cking terrible now. Constantly losing the ball and not being able to catch. He had a wide open look under the rim and couldn't even get a shot up because he bobbled the pass. I know he'll manage but I wish he could get whatever he got on his knee and ankle done on his fingers :lol

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

12-30-2011, 01:17 AM

Injuries have really plagued him. Once his wrist heels, I think he'll have a fantastic season (if he isn't already having one).

305Baller

12-30-2011, 01:17 AM

Well... time says that he should decline, but I guess the skills say otherwise.

Maneva

12-30-2011, 01:18 AM

He's playing great and will be an elite player for a few more years. Only question is how the nagging injuries, like the wrist, impact him long term. The wrist is especially vulnerable to serious injury right now, not to be a downer or anything.

Obviously it's early in the season, but I'm thinking he'll finish around 5th in MVP voting, maybe even 3rd behind Durant and LeBron (Howard's situation will of course hurt his chances), and he's got another great chance at getting on the all 1st team again (not for defense though).

So yes, his decline has been exaggerated. Injuries are the only thing to worry about.

NoGunzJustSkillz

12-30-2011, 01:18 AM

Injuries have really plagued him. Once his wrist heels, I think he'll have a fantastic season (if he isn't already having one).
I can't imagine it heeling without taking some time off.

juju151111

12-30-2011, 01:19 AM

It's been going on since 08.

Granted he's not the same player but he is still the best.

He makes it look so easy.
Best? Best of wat?

9erEmpire

12-30-2011, 01:26 AM

Best? Best of wat?

you must not watch much basketball but yet, you post on here so much.

:facepalm

The_Yearning

12-30-2011, 01:30 AM

If I was Kobe I would have not let it get out that I went to Germany for a fix up... now everyone knows the secret.

Brickz187

12-30-2011, 01:33 AM

Hes kobe bryant why anyone would think he's done is crazy.

Indian guy

12-30-2011, 01:36 AM

FashionIssues

12-30-2011, 01:38 AM

i dont want a refurbished kobe. i want a team that can come out the west and beat bron and wade

i'm telling you he nor the team is not capable of that

juju151111

12-30-2011, 01:39 AM

you must not watch much basketball but yet, you post on here so much.

:facepalm
You said best like Kobe is the best in the league or something.:facepalm

305Baller

12-30-2011, 01:40 AM

I have always felt people are too obsessed with mileage. Your body still ages relative to your age. 33 sure as heck isn't young, but it's not that old either. Barring serious injury, superstars historically have still managed to be very good at 33.

Depends on if your game is based on athleticism.

http://www.ojmedical.com/img/prods/med/kbc19840_72_depends_protective_underwear_for_.jpg

NoGunzJustSkillz

12-30-2011, 01:41 AM

You said best like Kobe is the best in the league or something.:facepalm
Why does everybody get so annal when the word 'best' is thrown around? Is Kobe not one of the best?

Indian guy

12-30-2011, 01:42 AM

Depends on if your game is based on athleticism.

That's why I said superstars. Superstars are very skilled.

305Baller

12-30-2011, 01:43 AM

That's why I said superstars. Superstars are very skilled.

Most of the time, at least.

LA_Showtime

12-30-2011, 01:44 AM

No. Though his stats have gone down, Kobe hasn't affected the game in the same way. He used to be one of the best facilitators in the league, and starting with the 09-10 season he went away from that and became more of a finisher. What's so exciting about this season is that Kobe is facilitating again and moving much better.

Micku

12-30-2011, 01:45 AM

So far so good.

NoGunzJustSkillz

12-30-2011, 01:47 AM

is it safe to say the tale of Kobe's demise has been greatly exaggerated?

No. Though his stats have gone down, Kobe hasn't affected the game in the same way. He used to be one of the best facilitators in the league, and starting with the 09-10 season he went away from that and became more of a finisher. What's so exciting about this season is that Kobe is facilitating again and moving much better.
keyword being greatly.

LA_Showtime

12-30-2011, 01:58 AM

keyword being greatly.

Most people still thought of him as a top 5 player before the season started. Only a select few thought he was done or whatever. :oldlol:

juju151111

12-30-2011, 02:02 AM

Why does everybody get so annal when the word 'best' is thrown around? Is Kobe not one of the best?
Yes

ThePointGuard11

12-30-2011, 02:03 AM

:facepalm

we're 4 games into the season... He's playing good, no doubt, but let's not jump to conclusions just yet.

TOUCH MY BODY

12-30-2011, 02:04 AM

When you are at the top, everyone hates on you. I don't care who your team is, you give credit where it's due. Kobe ballin :rockon:

G-Funk

12-30-2011, 02:27 AM

It seems like he's becoming more injury prone with age.

Heavincent

12-30-2011, 02:30 AM

It's extremely impressive that he's in his 16th season and is still an elite player.

Jacks3

12-30-2011, 02:30 AM

I.R.Beast

12-30-2011, 02:33 AM

I have always felt people are too obsessed with mileage. Your body still ages relative to your age. 33 sure as heck isn't young, but it's not that old either. Barring serious injury, superstars historically have still managed to be very good at 33.

the mileage is more tolling than the age. The age is the part that people get to obsessed, players that played less years and games at 33 are better equipped to last than a guy that player 4+ years of more games at the same age.

Heavincent

12-30-2011, 02:34 AM

Not really. Current Kobe isn't even close to what he was in 2003/2006/2007,especially in terms of shot-creation/take-over abilty and defense, but who cares?

He's still a monster of a player. Still top 5 in the league IMO.

Agreed. How many players even stay in the league for 16 seasons, let alone be an elite player?

Kobe is only playing like 30 minutes a game this season and he's still dropping 28/6/6 a night :applause:

LakersReign

12-30-2011, 02:41 AM

REAL NBA fans can recognize the skills, regardless of team affiliation. Sure the guy has lost s step or two, but that's normal with aging. Look at how Shaq's career ended. Playing in almost EVERY game, PLUS post season does take a toll, ask Tim Duncan. The only people who already want to write off Kobe as "old" is bandwagon Lebron fans, who know nothing about anything, which is exactly why aging is such a foreign concept for them to grasp.

LeFraud James

12-30-2011, 02:41 AM

Agreed. How many players even stay in the league for 16 seasons, let alone be an elite player?

Kobe is only playing like 30 minutes a game this season and he's still dropping 28/6/6 a night :applause:

He is a legend in the making.

Makes me proud to be a Laker fan, having watched him his rookie season until today.

He easily exceeded my expecatations.

KenneBell

12-30-2011, 02:44 AM

Very much so. I think he'll have another 25/5/5 season in the books this season, another All-NBA 1st Team and maybe even another All-D team. At 16 years in, that is very impressive for anyone.

bizil

12-30-2011, 05:52 AM

I have always felt people are too obsessed with mileage. Your body still ages relative to your age. 33 sure as heck isn't young, but it's not that old either. Barring serious injury, superstars historically have still managed to be very good at 33.

U are right indeed. There are many legends who were STILL doing major damage at 33. at the top of my head are MJ, Kareem, Jerry West, Nique, Wilt, Karl Malone, etc. 33 if anything is an age where u see guys slow in terms of speed and hops. But guys like MJ, Doc, and Nique still had hops at 33, even if they weren't their peak hops. It's about adapting as time goes on. But for guys who are very injury prone or outta shape, 33 years old (or even late 20's) can mean the end. Or not anywhere close to your prime and just a shell of yourself. These are guys like Penny, Shawn Kemp, etc. But if u can rebound from injuries well, avoid the real serious ones, and adapt, 33 years old can still be a great MVP level age in all of the major sports. Even MJ at 40 years old was playing at an All Star level even though he was outta his prime. Some guys are so far ahead of the game that even when they are outta their prime and so called old (at least in sports terms old) they will still be very good and sometimes even great players.

Collie

12-30-2011, 06:02 AM

I expect him to slow down as the season progresses. He usually starts out very strong and levels out with time. Still expect him to put up something like 24-25/5/4.

knightfall88

12-30-2011, 06:13 AM

I expect him to slow down as the season progresses. He usually starts out very strong and levels out with time. Still expect him to put up something like 24-25/5/4.

thats why we need to stop jinxing him. Getting deep in the playoffs, we don't know how he will hold up. The last few seasons he has looked good too but he ran out of gas in 2011 playoffs and in 2010 he had issues in the first round against OKC because of injuries.

Quizno

12-30-2011, 06:15 AM

:facepalm

we're 4 games into the season... He's playing good, no doubt, but let's not jump to conclusions just yet.
:oldlol:

how is saying that he's not done "jumping to a conclusion"? isn't it jumping to a conclusion to say that he IS done?

GovernmentMan

12-30-2011, 06:26 AM

He's too old imo. His body will break down as the season progresses, especially with the condensed season

RazorBaLade

12-30-2011, 06:32 AM

these are all like 45+ pt games for prime kobe

RoseCity07

12-30-2011, 06:36 AM

dirk94_

12-30-2011, 07:19 AM

I don't demise him its just that hes not the best anymore and kobe fans wont realize that because they are fans of his. I'm a fan of dirk and I know for damn sure hes not the best but probably top 5 or 6. I just expect kobe not to be the same kobe who could lead the team all the way to a title anymore unless he had like a dwight or something. 3 Games hes doing good but I predict his team rusting soon which will cause an over working kobe to tire him.

sodap

12-30-2011, 08:13 AM

I think we cant realize just how great kobe bryant has always been and still is. everyone, including haters, will miss him greatly when he retires.

I can say the same thing from lebron, these two guys carry the weight of the league, 90% of the love and hate is directed towards this two guys, and thats because they are epic players.

The_Yearning

12-30-2011, 08:36 AM

It's obvious Kobe is on the decline and past his prime but he is still one of the best players in the NBA. Kobe wouldn't have gotten swatted at the rim on a game winner if he was in as good as he has been in the past.

He believed in his German knees too much on that play... should of just pulled up. Even a young athletic Kobe would of pulled up.

Jacks3

12-30-2011, 12:35 PM

these are all like 45+ pt games for prime kobe
This.

BallsOut

12-30-2011, 01:45 PM

It's obvious Kobe is on the decline and past his prime but he is still one of the best players in the NBA. Kobe wouldn't have gotten swatted at the rim on a game winner if he was in as good as he has been in the past.

This one didn't have anything to do with his prime or not. Kobe should've taken a few dribbles and crossed Deng then pullup j for the game winner. It was just a poor IQ play at the time. Instead he tried to drive in and shoot a one handed floater while being covered by 4 Bulls. Don't recall him making any game winners like that before.

bond10

12-30-2011, 01:56 PM

This one didn't have anything to do with his prime or not. Kobe should've taken a few dribbles and crossed Deng then pullup j for the game winner. It was just a poor IQ play at the time. Instead he tried to drive in and shoot a one handed floater while being covered by 4 Bulls. Don't recall him making any game winners like that before.

This. Maybe because of his wrist he's not shooting?

rodman91

12-30-2011, 02:09 PM

G-Funk

12-30-2011, 02:52 PM

So far, Kobe has looked great. His defense is back. He is getting after it, all the Lakers look hungry, im excited.

SlayerEnraged

12-30-2011, 03:37 PM

People are just silly...He definietely looks more like 08 with the speed and agility I've seen this year but even in last years playoffs he didn't look bad. Gasoft, Fisher, Artest, etc were no shows and to try to beat a team like the mav's ur whole team needs to be doing good. He was trying to get people involved and they weren't delivering...He knows that they aren't gonna win if he trys scorin 40+ a night, especially against a good team like the mavs.

Cangri

12-30-2011, 03:37 PM

What demise? Everyone still have him at least in the top 7 players in the NBA... is that exaggerating?:confusedshrug:

The Iron Fist

12-30-2011, 03:44 PM

Of course its exaggerated. The people who think hes fallen off, are the ones hoping hes fallen off.

DMAVS41

12-30-2011, 03:49 PM

Of course its exaggerated. The people who think hes fallen off, are the ones hoping hes fallen off.

I don't know why people just can't go off what we watch and see. Last year in the playoffs Kobe fell off big time. He wasn't his normal self and you played very poorly.

This season he looks fantastic and his nagging injuries in his ankle/knee don't seem to be slowing him down at all.

Projecting is kind of silly....as is hoping one of the greatest players of all time isn't going to be great anymore.

Yao Ming's Foot

12-30-2011, 03:58 PM

I don't know why people just can't go off what we watch and see. Last year in the playoffs Kobe fell off big time. He wasn't his normal self and you played very poorly.

This season he looks fantastic and his nagging injuries in his ankle/knee don't seem to be slowing him down at all.

Projecting is kind of silly....as is hoping one of the greatest players of all time isn't going to be great anymore.

Because nobody did the same for Odom and Pau :confusedshrug:

DMAVS41

12-30-2011, 03:59 PM

Because nobody did the same for Odom and Pau :confusedshrug:

What do you mean? Gasol got hammered. In fact, he probably got blamed more than anyone.

dynasty1978

12-30-2011, 04:02 PM

It's only 4 game yet. Also his stats were pretty good last year as well. He plays in Brown's system and almost 2 minutes more per game now.

Kobe still can play good enough and might have "prime year" stats even in late of their career. But clearly, he shows signs of he is not as good as couple of years ago. He is slower, less agressive, he tends to jumpshot more instead of dunks/lay ups.

I would have to agree, it's a wait and see thing. Kobe's game was peaking around February last year, notably against Boston (great closing performance) and NY on the road. After that, he wasn't right physically with the knee.

Blue&Orange

12-30-2011, 04:03 PM

Yao Ming's Foot

12-30-2011, 04:09 PM

What do you mean? Gasol got hammered. In fact, he probably got blamed more than anyone.

By non Laker fans?

Droid101

12-30-2011, 04:11 PM

I guess the finger play out, so this year is the wrist. :facepalm
So, I guess you didn't watch the game and see how swollen his hand looked at the end of it?

Does someone have a picture from the end of the game when he put ice on his wrist? They did a close up of his hand... shit looked nasty swollen.

DMAVS41

12-30-2011, 04:12 PM

By non Laker fans?

yes. i don't know what rock you are living under...gasol has been trashed all off season for his play.

heyhey

12-30-2011, 04:16 PM

yes. i don't know what rock you are living under...gasol has been trashed all off season for his play.

well if you watch lakers play you would be frustrated by how tentative and timid Pau Gasol is in the post too as well as how many passes he bobbles now

DirtySanchez

12-30-2011, 04:17 PM

i dont want a refurbished kobe. i want a team that can come out the west and beat bron and wade

i'm telling you he nor the team is not capable of that
This

pegasus

12-30-2011, 04:18 PM

So, I guess you didn't watch the game and see how swollen his hand looked at the end of it?

Does someone have a picture from the end of the game when he put ice on his wrist? They did a close up of his hand... shit looked nasty swollen.

I saw it. It was swollen after the Sacramento game, too. It doesn't seem to be affecting his shot (he's probably used to it, having had to play with bad fingers the last several years), but it's causing him to mishandle the ball a lot.

I give him a lot of credit for still playing at an elite level. I get frustrated whenever I have a band-aid on my finger, so I can't even imagine how it would feel like to shoot/drive with all the stuff he's got.

DMAVS41

12-30-2011, 04:22 PM

well if you watch lakers play you would be frustrated by how tentative and timid Pau Gasol is in the post too as well as how many passes he bobbles now

i agree. gasol played like ass last year in the playoffs. never said otherwise. kobe played like ass as well though.

Yao Ming's Foot

12-30-2011, 04:29 PM

yes. i don't know what rock you are living under...gasol has been trashed all off season for his play.

the rock where this board was happy the Lakers traded them for Chris Paul because they "gave up too much" :confusedshrug:

DMAVS41

12-30-2011, 04:31 PM

the rock where this board was happy the Lakers traded them for Chris Paul because they "gave up too much" :confusedshrug:

it might have been too much. although i disagree. just because he played poorly in the playoffs doesn't mean he isn't still a great player.

doesn't really matter to me what other people are saying...and it shouldn't impact how you form opinions.

honestly it doesn't matter. you sound like the people that use ESPN analysts picking the Cavs to win the title in 09 as evidence that the Cavs were better than they were.

who cares about popular opinion if its way off? obviously Gasol was terrible in the playoffs last year.

what i'm confused about is how that impacts the fact that Kobe was also very bad as well. because it doesn't.

Yao Ming's Foot

12-30-2011, 04:38 PM

it might have been too much. although i disagree. just because he played poorly in the playoffs doesn't mean he isn't still a great player.

doesn't really matter to me what other people are saying...and it shouldn't impact how you form opinions.

honestly it doesn't matter. you sound like the people that use ESPN analysts picking the Cavs to win the title in 09 as evidence that the Cavs were better than they were.

who cares about popular opinion if its way off? obviously Gasol was terrible in the playoffs last year.

what i'm confused about is how that impacts the fact that Kobe was also very bad as well. because it doesn't.

He wasn't "very bad". Lamar Odom had a more striking drop from the regular season and Pau Gasol had the biggest drop compared to the previous years playoffs. But really they lost because of their defense.

DMAVS41

12-30-2011, 04:41 PM

He wasn't "very bad". Lamar Odom had a more striking drop from the regular season and Pau Gasol had the biggest drop compared to the previous years playoffs. But really they lost because of their defense.

I disagree about Kobe, but I do agree that defense was a big reason they lost.

And Kobe's defense was downright terrible against the Mavs.

But it doesn't really matter all that much. You just clearly can't grasp that Kobe was a huge reason why the Lakers lot to the Mavs last year. So was the play of Fisher, Gasol, Odom, and Bynum. That is how it usually goes.

Yao Ming's Foot

12-30-2011, 04:51 PM

I disagree about Kobe, but I do agree that defense was a big reason they lost.

And Kobe's defense was downright terrible against the Mavs.

But it doesn't really matter all that much. You just clearly can't grasp that Kobe was a huge reason why the Lakers lot to the Mavs last year. So was the play of Fisher, Gasol, Odom, and Bynum. That is how it usually goes.

Game 1: Kobe was great offensively... team defense was terrible

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201105020LAL.html

Game 2: Kobe shot 45%, 5 assists... team defense was terrible

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201105040LAL.html

Game 3: Kobe shot 50%... team defense was even worse

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201105060DAL.html

Game 4: Kobe's only bad offensive game of the series which ultimately didnt matter because they gave up 1.32 points per possession and lost by nearly 40 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201105080DAL.html

:confusedshrug:

According to the various internet message board experts on these boards, Kobe's defense has already been terrible for a number of years now so I dont understand how even that would be considered a drop off

Its ok to admit its just wishful thinking :oldlol:

DMAVS41

12-30-2011, 05:12 PM

Game 1: Kobe was great offensively... team defense was terrible

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201105020LAL.html

Game 2: Kobe shot 45%, 5 assists... team defense was terrible

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201105040LAL.html

Game 3: Kobe shot 50%... team defense was even worse

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201105060DAL.html

Game 4: Kobe's only bad offensive game of the series which ultimately didnt matter because they gave up 1.32 points per possession and lost by nearly 40 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201105080DAL.html

:confusedshrug:

According to the various internet message board experts on these boards, Kobe's defense has already been terrible for a number of years now so I dont understand how even that would be considered a drop off

Its ok to admit its just wishful thinking :oldlol:

Did you even read my posts. I don't wish Kobe to drop off. I just was saying he played poorly in the playoffs last year. That is all.

The fact you can't admit Kobe played poorly against the Mavs is the point...

Yao Ming's Foot

12-30-2011, 05:33 PM

[/B]

Did you even read my posts. I don't wish Kobe to drop off. I just was saying he played poorly in the playoffs last year. That is all.

The fact you can't admit Kobe played poorly against the Mavs is the point...

No you said he played "very bad" and was a "huge reason" why the Lakers lost the series.

He played good to great Games 1-3 and played poorly in the final game in which the Lakers would have lost even if he had played great.

:confusedshrug:

tpols

12-30-2011, 05:58 PM

No you said he played "very bad" and was a "huge reason" why the Lakers lost the series.

He played good to great Games 1-3 and played poorly in the final game in which the Lakers would have lost even if he had played great.

:confusedshrug:
Yup.. Kobe's numbers and play based on what he did in the regular season didn't see a huge drop off at all. What did he average 2 less ppg, and a few less boards? His efficiency was the same.. his defense was the same. The funny thing is, he'll get trashed for his terrible perimeter defense because of the Dallas series, but Dallas did that to EVERYONE.. incluing Lebron and Wade. But somehow they dont get the same criticism.

The real reason LA lost was because Pau Gasol dropped off from 19/10 53%FG to 13/8 42%FG. When your team's second most important player sees such a huge dropoff of course the team is going to fall with him.. and thats what happened. Everyone's play took a hit because there was no chemistry because one of the key facilitators in their offense and key cogs in their defense didn't show up.

Gasol's drop off was three times as big as Kobe's.. and his absence in itself could have caused the small dropoff in everybody elses play/stats.

rugrats

12-30-2011, 06:13 PM

LORD GODBE GETTIN BETTER EVERY YEAR

WADE AINT EVEN TOP 10

:bowdown:

DMAVS41

12-30-2011, 06:18 PM

No you said he played "very bad" and was a "huge reason" why the Lakers lost the series.

He played good to great Games 1-3 and played poorly in the final game in which the Lakers would have lost even if he had played great.

:confusedshrug:

He did play poorly and he was a huge reason they lost. Do you remember his meltdown in crunch time in game 1? Missing the game winner? Winning a tough series is fragile. When your best player can't get it done in the 4th qtr...it impacts the outcome.

And Kobe's defense was subpar at best in that series as well. I can't just ignore all those things. If you think Kobe played well enough to win that series you have lost your damn mind.

Same goes for the rest of the Lakers...and even more for Gasol.

Yao Ming's Foot

12-30-2011, 06:23 PM

He did play poorly and he was a huge reason they lost. Do you remember his meltdown in crunch time in game 1? Missing the game winner? Winning a tough series is fragile. When your best player can't get it done in the 4th qtr...it impacts the outcome.

And Kobe's defense was subpar at best in that series as well. I can't just ignore all those things. If you think Kobe played well enough to win that series you have lost your damn mind.

Same goes for the rest of the Lakers...and even more for Gasol.

Would you say Wade and Lebron played very poorly last regular season because they missed every potential game winner?

You use the most absurd adjectives to quantify things that I often wonder if we actually speak the same language.

DMAVS41

12-30-2011, 06:29 PM

Would you say Wade and Lebron played very poorly last regular season because they missed every potential game winner?

You use the most absurd adjectives to quantify things that I often wonder if we actually speak the same language.

What? Its the freaking playoffs. What do you want me to say? I hold Kobe to very high standards because he's one of not only the best players in the game but one of the best all time.

The first 3 games were close...

LA up 7 going into the 4th in game 1
LA down 6 going into the 4th in game 2
LA up 6 going into the 4th in game 3

Kobe was not good in any of those crunch times. His play throughout the other 3 qtrs was weak outside of game 1. His defense throughout the series was non existent. Then...he and his team gave up in game 4. I could also bring up his total lack of effort on the boards. Getting 12 boards in 4 games...having a 0 rebound game. Isn't that how you rationalize Kobe's pitiful game 7 in 2010? How was his total disregard for rebounding against the Mavs not a huge negative then? Come on. Or him only having 10 assists for the series. A less than 1 to 1 assist to turnover ratio. How on earth can you think he played well enough to beat a quality team in the playoffs?

And you think I'm crazy for saying one of the best to ever play and an elite top 5 or so player in the game played badly? They freaking got swept by a huge underdog with homecourt advantage as well.

My god man. Wake up and man up for a change. If you asked Kobe himself how he played last year against the Mavs he'd tell you he played like shit for him.

Yao Ming's Foot

12-30-2011, 06:49 PM

What? Its the freaking playoffs. What do you want me to say? I hold Kobe to very high standards because he's one of not only the best players in the game but one of the best all time.

The first 3 games were close...

LA up 7 going into the 4th in game 1
LA down 6 going into the 4th in game 2
LA up 6 going into the 4th in game 3

Kobe was not good in any of those crunch times. His play throughout the other 3 qtrs was weak outside of game 1. His defense throughout the series was non existent. Then...he and his team gave up in game 4.

And you think I'm crazy for saying one of the best to ever play and an elite top 5 or so player in the game played badly? They freaking got swept by a huge underdog with homecourt advantage as well.

My god man. Wake up and man up for a change. If you asked Kobe himself how he played last year against the Mavs he'd tell you he played like shit for him.

:oldlol: The goal post keeps moving. Now its his crunchtime was weak. That's why people claim he was washed up. Wasn't his crunchtime always weak just like his defense. You guys get so twisted up in your Kobe hater logic that you can never present a consitent thought. If Kobe's clutchness and defense have always been overrated then how could a lack of clutchness and a lack of defense be the justification for claiming he is washed up. How can you fall back big time from something you and your brethren have claimed he was never great at anyway?

DMAVS41

12-30-2011, 06:51 PM

:oldlol: The goal post keeps moving. Now its his crunchtime was weak. That's why people claim he was washed up. Wasn't his crunchtime always weak just like his defense. You guys get so twisted up in your Kobe hater logic that you can never present a consitent thought. If Kobe's clutchness and defense have always been overrated then how could a lack of clutchness and a lack of defense be the justification for claiming he is washed up. How can you fall back big time from something you and your brethren have claimed he was never great at anyway?

I never claimed he was washed up. Are you even reading my posts? I never once said Kobe was done or wished he was done. I hope Kobe plays until he's 40...I've said that time and time again.

I simply commented about his play in the playoffs/mavs series last year. I never once used that as evidence that he's done. I've always said Kobe will last damn near forever with how good his first step still is and how skilled he is.

You are trying to argue with somebody else and just ignoring what I have posted.

:wtf:

Yao Ming's Foot

12-30-2011, 07:02 PM

I never claimed he was washed up. Are you even reading my posts? I never once said Kobe was done or wished he was done. I hope Kobe plays until he's 40...I've said that time and time again.

I simply commented about his play in the playoffs/mavs series last year. I never once used that as evidence that he's done. I've always said Kobe will last damn near forever with how good his first step still is and how skilled he is.

You are trying to argue with somebody else and just ignoring what I have posted.

:wtf:

Sorry I guess we just have different meanings of the words "fell off big time", "played very poorly" and "huge reason". I use they way they are described in the dictionary, you on the other hand use them very differently.

DMAVS41

12-30-2011, 07:42 PM

Sorry I guess we just have different meanings of the words "fell off big time", "played very poorly" and "huge reason". I use they way they are described in the dictionary, you on the other hand use them very differently.

If you think the best player on a team in the 2nd round of the playoffs playing like Kobe did is good enough to win....then you and I have different standards for star players.

Of course Kobe was a "huge reason" they lost. He played no defense, didn't rebound, didn't create, and did nothing in crunch time.

The first three games were absolutely winnable. Hell, the Lakers had a 7 point lead in game 1 and a 6 point lead in game 3 going into the 4th qtr. You really think Kobe not stepping up and closing games was just a minor detail in the series? If so...so be it.

We just have different standards. I don't grade star players like Kobe on the scale you do clearly....my question would be if Kobe is as good as you say..why are your standards for him so low in the playoffs that you don't think he is to blame?

Yao Ming's Foot

12-30-2011, 08:24 PM

If you think the best player on a team in the 2nd round of the playoffs playing like Kobe did is good enough to win....then you and I have different standards for star players.

Of course Kobe was a "huge reason" they lost. He played no defense, didn't rebound, didn't create, and did nothing in crunch time.

The first three games were absolutely winnable. Hell, the Lakers had a 7 point lead in game 1 and a 6 point lead in game 3 going into the 4th qtr. You really think Kobe not stepping up and closing games was just a minor detail in the series? If so...so be it.

We just have different standards. I don't grade star players like Kobe on the scale you do clearly....my question would be if Kobe is as good as you say..why are your standards for him so low in the playoffs that you don't think he is to blame?

Is Dirk a star player?

Dirk won a WCF game playing worse than Kobe in Game 4...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201105210OKC.html

and in 3 of their Finals wins he played worse than Kobe in Games 1 and 2

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201106020MIA.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201106070DAL.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201106120MIA.html

:confusedshrug:

Dwade305

12-30-2011, 08:28 PM

What a surpirse Bladers getting owned by Gino again:lol You good peoples though bladers, but still you getting shitted on:roll:

rugrats

12-30-2011, 08:30 PM

What a surpirse Bladers getting owned by Gino again:lol You good peoples though bladers, but still you getting shitted on:roll:

bladers > u

just hop on da LORD GAWDBE bandwagon dwhistle 20 ppg :lol

Dwade305

12-30-2011, 08:38 PM

bladers > u

just hop on da LORD GAWDBE bandwagon dwhistle 20 ppg :lol
I didnt believe that 90% of the Kobe troll accounts were 1 person, a mod just conirmed it though. Pretty sad and :oldlol: and :facepalm at the same time

DMAVS41

12-30-2011, 08:44 PM

Is Dirk a star player?

Dirk won a WCF game playing worse than Kobe in Game 4...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201105210OKC.html

and in 3 of their Finals wins he played worse than Kobe in Games 1 and 2

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201106020MIA.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201106070DAL.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201106120MIA.html

:confusedshrug:

Of course Dirk is a star player. Sometimes a team can win with their star not playing well. As a Kobe fan you should be well aware of this reality...because he's had the luxury far more than any star of this generation.

Dirk didn't have a great finals....but he did come through in the clutch throughout the series. And that would be a big difference here. Dirk made the game winner in game 2 of the finals. If he misses it like Kobe missed his and the Mavs go down 0-2 they most likely don't win.

Again, its a fine line between winning and losing often in the playoffs.

I'm done debating this. Anyone that watched the Lakers vs Mavs series knows that Kobe was not up to his normal self and he played poorly. It really is sad that his fans can't admit it. They want to put all the blame on everyone else and continue to ignore that the Lakers had leads going into the 4th qtr of 2 of the first 3 games....

barnett114

12-30-2011, 08:48 PM

Off topic but the bitch Jacks3 keeps getting banned from RealGM. 40 something accounts now.

:lol:

RRR3

12-30-2011, 08:56 PM

I didnt believe that 90% of the Kobe troll accounts were 1 person, a mod just conirmed it though. Pretty sad and :oldlol: and :facepalm at the same time
Where did a mod confirm it? Link please?

Andrei89

12-30-2011, 08:57 PM

Kobe is a great player. These trolls make you hate him however. So I can't stand him

rugrats

12-30-2011, 09:01 PM

Kobe is a great player. These trolls make you hate him however. So I can't stand him

how can u hate LORD GAWDBE? he will shun you doe :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Dwade305

12-30-2011, 09:01 PM

Where did a mod confirm it? Link please?
Take my word for it

Yao Ming's Foot

12-30-2011, 09:10 PM

Of course Dirk is a star player. Sometimes a team can win with their star not playing well. As a Kobe fan you should be well aware of this reality...because he's had the luxury far more than any star of this generation.

Dirk didn't have a great finals....but he did come through in the clutch throughout the series. And that would be a big difference here. Dirk made the game winner in game 2 of the finals. If he misses it like Kobe missed his and the Mavs go down 0-2 they most likely don't win.

Again, its a fine line between winning and losing often in the playoffs.

I'm done debating this. Anyone that watched the Lakers vs Mavs series knows that Kobe was not up to his normal self and he played poorly. It really is sad that his fans can't admit it. They want to put all the blame on everyone else and continue to ignore that the Lakers had leads going into the 4th qtr of 2 of the first 3 games....

What importance is it that the Lakers had the lead in the 4th quarter? It doesn't change how Kobe played, it also doesn't change what the main reasons why they lost are. I'm ignoring it because it is irrelevant.