Ricky Rubio or Kyrie Irving? [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

Rowe

12-31-2011, 03:20 AM

what are rubios flaws? hes played pretty damn well the first 3 games.

- Poor man to man defense
- Not confident enough in his shot to be a factor on offense

Those are the 2 prominent things that stand out as a detriment to him.

I also question his mental toughness as well as his durability to hold up physically for an entire season. I believe he had some injury issues in Europe as well. Hes only facing bigger, stronger, faster players at this level.

But lets overlook that because he can pass the ball all fancy and stuff.

12 Assists with 5 Turnovers. Impressive.:rolleyes:

He sells tickets & is marketable, having the Minnesota crowd chant his name and go nuts when he touches the ball means they'll continue to fill up those seats to watch him play live.

imnew09

12-31-2011, 03:24 AM

Well, Irving blew a game winning lay up tonight so I would take Rubio as my franchise player. :D

c3z4r

12-31-2011, 03:25 AM

- Poor man to man defense
- Not confident enough in his shot to be a factor on offense

Those are the 2 prominent things that stand out as a detriment to him.

I also question his mental toughness as well as his durability to hold up physically for an entire season. I believe he had some injury issues in Europe as well. Hes only facing bigger, stronger, faster players at this level.

But lets overlook that because he can pass the ball all fancy and stuff.

12 Assists with 5 Turnovers. Impressive.:rolleyes:

He sells tickets & is marketable, having the Minnesota crowd chant his name and go nuts when he touches the ball means they'll continue to fill up those seats to watch him play live.

And irving had 7 assists with 3 turnovers or do you find that more impressive? :rolleyes:

roffie

12-31-2011, 03:27 AM

defs hoping on the rubio band wagon. woop woop

but, irving is defintily seen more of a complete player though.

KOBEtherealKing

12-31-2011, 03:32 AM

Rubio.. Irving should of stayed one more year in college.

Rowe

12-31-2011, 03:35 AM

And irving had 7 assists with 3 turnovers or do you find that more impressive? :rolleyes:
I'll take that from a 19 year old PG playing in his 2nd professional basketball game.

miles berg

12-31-2011, 03:39 AM

Rubio is going to be a superstar

cuad

12-31-2011, 03:40 AM

Rubio without question.

MooseJuiceBowen

12-31-2011, 03:46 AM

I'll take that from a 19 year old PG playing in his 2nd professional basketball game.

geez 19??

Rowe

12-31-2011, 03:50 AM

geez 19??
Yep.

Last night was only his 14th game hes played since St.Patrick HS.

Like I mentioned before, you're basically talking about a player coming to the NBA fresh out of HS due to how limited of a college career he had.

Hes talented & will become a star over time. Not a "superstar" but a "star".

Sarcastic

12-31-2011, 04:01 AM

If Rubio can soldify his defense, and nail his jumper, then easily him. His court vision is insane. It's at Magic Johnson level.

RedBlackAttack

12-31-2011, 04:18 AM

Couple things...

Kyrie is 19. Rubio is 21. That is a pretty significant difference. Two years isn't always a big gap when comparing players, but those are very important years for basketball players. Also, Rubio has been playing against professionals and grown men for years. Irving played 11 college games and, before that, was a high school player.

Rubio should really look like the much more polished player at this stage in their respective careers... Yet, he doesn't. Irving already has a much more rounded game and that is only going to continue as he adjusts to the speed of the game and gets his legs back after the long layoff... Not to mention as he matures as an adult.

Irving's potential is sky high. He could really become a really nice complete point guard. He already scores the ball extremely well and has excellent court vision/awareness... As well as being a natural distributor of the ball. If the Cavs had better finishers, he would be hovering around 10 assists per game through three.

Rubio is a flashy player and I know people are drawn to that... For me, this isn't even worth debating. Irving's ceiling is much higher than Rubio's, imo.

I had high hopes for Kyrie and he is much better than even I thought he would be thus far. He has a really nice first step, extremely nice change of direction and an ability to control the pace of a game, which to me is the most important attribute a point guard can have... And, you either have it or you don't.

Zenji

12-31-2011, 06:35 AM

Hard to say right now as both are so young... If i had to choose tho i would take Ricky Rubio. His court vision and passing ability are approaching an elite level already not to mention above average decision making which is impressive for a rookie. The rest of his game will improve with hard work and practice.

Zenji

12-31-2011, 06:41 AM

"flashy player" is such a backhanded compliment. Kid is a legit playmaking point guard. The offense flows so much better every time he steps foot on the court.

Shepseskaf

12-31-2011, 06:44 AM

I find it interesting that several people have mentioned "marketability" when comparing the two players. Its a really discrete way of saying that Rubio is white, and will draw more white fans.

Of the two, I do think that Irving's ceiling is much higher. There are serious concerns about Rubio's long-term durability, his ability to stretch the floor on offense, and his lateral quickness on both offense and defense.

Time will tell how things ultimately turn out.

chains5000

12-31-2011, 06:49 AM

Not fair to compare both now, Irving has barely played against proffesional players.
I was really surprised by Ricky's stats against the Heat, I got to watch the game now.

FindingTim

12-31-2011, 06:55 AM

Rubio is really impressive. Like, holy **** that guy is good.
I don't care if he doesn't score all game, the guy is an impact player.
His court vision and passing are unparalleled, and when he is handling the ball, the other team is unbalanced and uncomfortable.

There are three main things I want from a point guard: unselfishness, good court vision, and passing ability. Ricky Rubio excels at all three. His physical tools are limited, but his brain sets him worlds apart as a passer. If he plays solid defense and continues to hit the three, he will be a phenomenal point guard.

If I were to play basketball in super slow motion, and analyze every passing angle at every moment, I still wouldn't think to make some of the passes Rubio makes. And don't forget the effect that this type of player has on a team. The Steve-Nash-Phoenix-Suns can tell you all about that.
I'm all in on Rubio.

JrueHoliday11

12-31-2011, 06:58 AM

rubio was hella impressive but irving got more upside

Shepseskaf

12-31-2011, 07:06 AM

Rubio should really look like the much more polished player at this stage in their respective careers... Yet, he doesn't.
Completely agreed. I frankly find it odd that Rubio could be so unpolished offensively after playing against professionals since the age of 14 in a league that places a premium on shooting -- as opposed to athleticism in the NBA.

One thing that Euroleague constantly harped on was Rubio's lack of basketball development since 16. We'll have to see how he does this year, but it looks like there's a kernel of truth in this analysis.

It was also said that his horrible shooting would allow teams to sag off of him, thus reducing his effectiveness as a passer.

B-Easy8

12-31-2011, 07:14 AM

Rubio is not bad offensively, he just doesn't take a lot of shots and instead passes a whole lot more. Rubio is shooting 61.5% so far and I don't think any of them have been a bad shot.

His man d isn't bad either he just goes for steals to often, when he chooses to stay in front of his man he is actually a good defender and I think he will learn to do this more often.

They are both good but I like PG's that set up the offence instead of shooting and will help rebound as well. Rubio reminds me of Kidd and that's my favourite type of PG.

Shepseskaf

12-31-2011, 07:23 AM

Rubio is shooting 61.5% so far and I don't think any of them have been a bad shot.
I don't think you can rely on stats here. If you watch Wolves games, you can see he's not comfortable or confident shooting the ball from distance. He seems to take shots when forced to, as opposed to making it an effective weapon in his arsenal.

That's what I find most strange about his game. I associate shooting, more than anything else, with European guards. Why hasn't he become more polished after spending so long there as a professional?

The bad shooting is one of the things that caused him to be benched in the Euroleague -- he was at about 30% at one point, if I recall correctly.

All Net

12-31-2011, 07:36 AM

Rubio has really surprised me, thought he wasn't NBA quailty when I saw him previously. Dude looks reslly good...just needs the right guys around him.

leopoldstotch

12-31-2011, 09:34 AM

I'll take that from a 19 year old PG playing in his 2nd professional basketball game.

that's right. forgot he got hurt early @ duke last year, and didn't return. i am going to need a bigger sample size from irving before i make a decision with him. we all know rubio's resume.

dbugz

12-31-2011, 10:00 AM

It's like comparing Westbrook and Rondo.

The other one love to pass while the other one love to shoot.

Total different players.

Dual

12-31-2011, 10:04 AM

Rubio's highlights vs Miami:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBoDWNBcf0s

:rockon:

swi7ch

12-31-2011, 10:07 AM

Rubio.

And somebody please give him a nickname!

DukeDelonte13

12-31-2011, 11:24 AM

Too early to say. I think Kyrie will be the better basketball player but to say that Rubio isn't going to get any better would be dumb. Rubio has way more exp. at this point though.

PleezeBelieve

12-31-2011, 11:27 AM

So ISH jumping off the John Wall bandwagon to Ricky Rubioooo!!!

So typical.

shootingcomets

12-31-2011, 11:36 AM

I would take rubio at this stage. The way that i see it, there's 2 main things i want to look for if i own a team

1. Marketability
Flashy passes gets people to go see games, this is important to establish a strong home court advantage not to mention earning power to go after free agents

2. Can i build a championship team?
I always believe the job of a point guard is to "pass first". It's much easier to fill out the rest of the roster with scorers since everyone wants to score and not many like passing

Irving may have more "upside" but he's less of a pure PG and there's no guarantee that he'd be better than westbrook, wall, rose and that whole list of scoring points

PleezeBelieve

12-31-2011, 11:38 AM

bisk

12-31-2011, 11:44 AM

You try to play with Antawn Jamison who LITERALLY shoots the ball whenever he gets it and wherever he is. It is absolutely ridiculous.

DukeDelonte13

12-31-2011, 11:50 AM

You try to play with Antawn Jamison who LITERALLY shoots the ball whenever he gets it and wherever he is. It is absolutely ridiculous.

true. Dude is taking way to many f*cking shots.

chips93

12-31-2011, 12:10 PM

true. Dude is taking way to many f*cking shots.

and he doesnt play a lick of defense, he misses a handful of vital rotations every game, hes terrible at defending the pick and roll, and he cant protect the basket.

Yung D-Will

12-31-2011, 12:11 PM

A coach like Adelman's who's such a great offensive coach who actually emphasized defense increases Rubio's upside imo

usdmef9

12-31-2011, 12:32 PM

Give me Rubio if I am building from the ground up, though Kyrie may be the better rounded player in the future.

shootingcomets

12-31-2011, 01:31 PM

What a dumb post right here. This guy has no idea what he's talking about.

Go sit down somewhere, clown.

:blah got a better comeback?

Yung D-Will

12-31-2011, 01:32 PM

I must admit my faith in Rubio never changed from when he was first drafted to 2011 and everyone here knows that. But I wasn't sold on Kyrie from the get go and he's been proving me wrong so far and I'll admit it.

Though I think Brandon knight will ultimately win Roty.

teddytwelvetoes

12-31-2011, 01:36 PM

Interesting comparison...we've seen little of both in terms of professional games (unless you watch a lot of Euro ball). I give the edge to Rubio since I'm a sucker for pass-first PGs like him and Rondo. Kyrie's fighting an uphill battle...that Cavs team is horrid.

EMERE

12-31-2011, 01:37 PM

Rubio is the real deal, I don't know why it hurts some many of you to admit it, it'
s like your jealous of him:confusedshrug: Because for what I've seen Rubio is going to be a very special player, many of you will be proven wrong... his court vision is elite, all he has to work on more is his offensive abilities, once he develops that you have your new Steve Nash...:eek: Wow a rookie that good? I know that I can't judge him off 3 games but so far he hasn't disappointed..... exceeded many expectations actually:eek:

GoldNugg21

12-31-2011, 01:57 PM

The thing that has impressed me about Rubio is that he's not scared in the slightest. Not of the competition, and not to shoot, even in crunchtime. I didn't expect that. He's fun to watch, thats for sure. He just gets the game.

And people who whine about his D, just look at Steve Nash. You don't need to be a great defender to be a great PG.

I haven't seen muchof Irving, but it sounds like he looks good as well.

So many damn good PGS in the league anymore, it's freaking crazy. They just keep coming.

Good centers, on the other hand...

Yung D-Will

12-31-2011, 02:01 PM

rule1223

12-31-2011, 02:01 PM

GoldNugg21

12-31-2011, 02:40 PM

Nothing I've seen makes me thing that he'll be a bad defender. At the very least he'll be average

Yea, I don't think he's a bad defender either, but even if he were it wouldn't be as crippling a trait as people say. Defense from the PG position just isn't as important as anywhere else at the floor in the NBA. The ball handling is too good for full court pressure to have the same effect on the game it does in college (unless you're the Knicks or the Lakers...), and in the halfcourt good help defense is more important than good man defense on PG's.

RedBlackAttack

12-31-2011, 04:20 PM

Hernando

12-31-2011, 04:55 PM

This needs to get set straight. Kyrie is not a Westbrook type of player. He is always looking for the pass while coming down the court, not the shot. Also, Kyrie has hardly got to play against College players, and his only REAL experience was High School ball. Coming into a league of hardly playing College players and not playing any professional players is crazy, and the way he is already performing is superb. Once he adapts more and learns the pace of the NBA, he will be outstanding. Kyrie is showing Professional skills already. Surely he has to change somethings but that is just with getting older. But we all must remember, we are 3 games into the season for these 2 players, have this debate when they start putting up averages on a nightly basis. So check around all star break.

Zenji

12-31-2011, 05:48 PM

I just don't think many of you have watched Irving yet. Rubio played the Heat last night, so of course that was watched by a great deal of the populous on the board. How many of you really watched Irving against the Raps, Pistons or Pacers?

Excellent point. I have yet to see Irving in action. By all accounts he is a stud. I have seen every TWolves game so far this year, Rubio has become must see TV, gotta try and catch a Cavs game soon.

GOBB

12-31-2011, 05:49 PM

Dirk played against grown men too before he entered the NBA draft. Rookie season he really didnt look like a future all time great, world champion, MVP player his rookie year. I dont know how much I put in Rubio playing pro early vs what he should look like as a rookie.

As far as who I'd take? Tough decision. I honestly dont know if either will be elite. I'd definately need to see more of them this season. Rubio looks like a better passer whereas Irving looks like a better scorer.

tenzan

12-31-2011, 06:11 PM

RedBlackAttack

12-31-2011, 11:12 PM

Rubio is less than 1.5 years older than Kyrie.
...and?

Are you saying there is no difference in a 19-year-old and a 21-year-old? Those are key years for a player on this level. Irving is still a teenager, for gods sake.

Is that not worth noting?

stallionaire

12-31-2011, 11:17 PM

A lot of people are here claiming that Rubio seems fearless. I think you're going a little too far. Rubio has hesitated on many shots and has deferred to passing. He makes a shot absolutely when it's obvious that he should do so, and he has to be more than wide open which makes it a little excessive. He is way too conservative of a shooter, which might be a good thing. He just hasn't attained 'fearless' status for me. Which is ironic considering the only thing he's truly fearless at is his passing game, so much so that some of his exotic looking pass attempts are the source of most of his turnovers.

I think Rubio is a better prospect than Kyrie so far and it has proven from Rubio's work so far. He looks like he's going to work hard and with all the 'show time' experience he has I think that is what be the most apparent edge that Rubio has. He won't choke in the big moment.

Rubio works on his shooting and continues to develop his passing game = Rookie of the Year. Book it.

IGOTGAME

12-31-2011, 11:18 PM

Lots of talk on here about how Irving is a 'score first' point guard in the mold of Westbrook. I completely disagree from what I've seen so far.

The Cavs have no finishers... No scorers, really. Right now, he is doing what he has to do to give the Cavs a chance to win. That said and even with the Cavs' putrid finishers, he was vying to become the first player in Cavs' history to record seven or more assists in his first three starts. It isn't as though this franchise has lacked quality passers, either (Mark Price, James, etc).

His passing ability and his ability to control pace have really impressed me thus far. It just so happens that he can also score if he needs to in addition to that. As this team continues to grow together and as the Cavs begin to build around Kyrie's skillset through the draft and free agency, I have no doubt that he will become a distributor and a damn good one.

I just don't think many of you have watched Irving yet. Rubio played the Heat last night, so of course that was watched by a great deal of the populous on the board. How many of you really watched Irving against the Raps, Pistons or Pacers?

I have been impressed with his ball handling. But not so much with his passing ability.

A guy like Ricky is on an entirely different level as a passer and as a controller of tempo.

They will both be good, but I'm not sold on either one being an all-nba talent. I do thing think they may see a few all star games. But, I'd rather have a guard who can control the game like Ricky...and the stuff Ricky has in passing you CAN'T learn. You either have it or you don't.

So, I would take Ricky, Kyrie will never pass like that. I feel confident that Ricky will improve his jumper. It already looks much improved imo. He changed the entire form recently.

ILLsmak

12-31-2011, 11:32 PM

...and?

Are you saying there is no difference in a 19-year-old and a 21-year-old? Those are key years for a player on this level. Irving is still a teenager, for gods sake.

Is that not worth noting?

On the other hand, you can say those 1.5 years of rubio's were spent on a team learning how to play a different and possibly more 'intelligent' brand of basketball.

The whole very little college experience could be a strike against Irving. Usually the players that shine in the NBA who came right out of HS or even after just one year are legit stars. The players that don't hit that franchise level are always stuck in some 'talented but cancerous' mindstate. Think about it. The only player that comes to mind that became a solid role player was Perkins.

So, there is a chance that a guy like Irving will be a huge problem if he doesn't reach his upside. He's likely never going to accept a role because his 'formative years' are going to be playing as a star with no accountability, no chance of deciding whether his team wins or loses on a long-term basis.

-Smak

PleezeBelieve

12-31-2011, 11:41 PM

Irving doesn't turn 20 until March 23rd 2012. He wont be 21 for 16 more months.

You dudes on crack... Irving > Rubio and its not all that close. All this talk about Rubio and the Wolves are 0-3. Pass that pipe mofos, its f*cking ya brain up.

brisbaneman

12-31-2011, 11:43 PM

Nero Tulip

12-31-2011, 11:50 PM

Both are going to be really good if they keep it up, but at this point I'll take Rubio.

RedBlackAttack

12-31-2011, 11:54 PM

On the other hand, you can say those 1.5 years of rubio's were spent on a team learning how to play a different and possibly more 'intelligent' brand of basketball.

The whole very little college experience could be a strike against Irving. Usually the players that shine in the NBA who came right out of HS or even after just one year are legit stars. The players that don't hit that franchise level are always stuck in some 'talented but cancerous' mindstate. Think about it. The only player that comes to mind that became a solid role player was Perkins.

So, there is a chance that a guy like Irving will be a huge problem if he doesn't reach his upside. He's likely never going to accept a role because his 'formative years' are going to be playing as a star with no accountability, no chance of deciding whether his team wins or loses on a long-term basis.

-Smak
...what?

Perhaps the most encouraging sign that Irving has shown in interviews and with his general demeanor is that of a high character player and person. I have absolutely no reason to believe that he will implode if the road gets a little rocky. That is a rather large leap, imo.

I don't base how a player is going to react to adversity on other players who joined the NBA at a young age. I do it on a case by case basis and this looks like the kind of guy who will accept responsibility and work to get better. Nothing in his past dictates that I think anything outside of that.

Again... I doubt many of the people commenting have even seen Kyrie play more than a handful of plays or a couple of highlights... Based on the comments and analysis, I pretty much know that not many of you have watched a full Cavaliers game this season.

GOBB

01-01-2012, 03:16 AM

Meticode

01-01-2012, 03:18 AM

Minny played OKC, Milw, Miami...Cleveland played Toronto, Det, Indiana. Tough schedule. :rolleyes:
Irving is also coming to a city that lost it's greatest player it ever had. He has huge shoes to fill, not to mention he's starting and expected to be their best player out of the gate. Rubio is what? Coming to play in the NBA after 2-3 years of putting it off after he was drafted coming off the bench in Minnesota? Get the f*ck out of here.

GOBB

01-01-2012, 03:28 AM

Irving is also coming to a city that lost it's greatest player it ever had. He has huge shoes to fill, not to mention he's starting and expected to be their best player out of the gate. Rubio is what? Coming to play in the NBA after 2-3 years of putting it off after he was drafted coming off the bench in Minnesota? Get the f*ck out of here.

Cool story bro. Somewhere you were trying to make a point and it got lost. So I ask you, whats your point? If you had a brain you could obviously see I'm repyling to someone who acts like the Wolves being 0-3 is a knock on Rubio vs Irving whose team is 1-2 (whoa whoa whoa). Minny played a tougher schedule. 2 NBA title contenders. Cleveland played 2 teams that will be at the top of the lottery. If you cant see the difference then you are dumber than I thought. I'll let you tell it.

Rubio wont be coming off the bench for long. Luke Ridnour is a veteran PG. He gets the announcement at the begginning of games. Guess who playing more minutes tho. This is another Donald Driver-Jordy Nelson situation.

Meticode

01-01-2012, 03:33 AM

Cool story bro. Somewhere you were trying to make a point and it got lost. So I ask you, whats your point? If you had a brain you could obviously see I'm repyling to someone who acts like the Wolves being 0-3 is a knock on Rubio vs Irving whose team is 1-2 (whoa whoa whoa). Minny played a tougher schedule. 2 NBA title contenders. Cleveland played 2 teams that will be at the top of the lottery. If you cant see the difference then you are dumber than I thought. I'll let you tell it.

Rubio wont be coming off the bench for long. Luke Ridnour is a veteran PG. He gets the announcement at the begginning of games. Guess who playing more minutes tho. This is another Donald Driver-Jordy Nelson situation.
I'll tell you what. You're right.

JtotheIzzo

01-01-2012, 04:14 AM

Thats a tough one.

Rubio sells tickets with his flashy play, although he has serious flaws as a player on the NBA level.

Irving will be the better player, but isnt going to be anywhere near as marketable as Rubio.

All depends on what Franchise I have.

If I'm a big market franchise, I'm taking Irving.
If I'm a small market franchise, I'm taking Rubio.

Really? He looked like a top two or three player on a team that almost took out the best team in the league (which also may be the best defensive team).

The hate for this kid has reached an unrealistic level.

GOBB

01-01-2012, 04:17 AM

The hate for this kid has reached an unrealistic level.

Rubio = Nash :lol

JtotheIzzo

01-01-2012, 04:32 AM

Rubio = Nash :lol

"But, but, but, he can't guard anybody..."

The refrain of the morons, like the NBA isn't about team defense anyways. Since they've instituted zone defense NOBODY plays strict man, everyone plays 'amoeba' style defense which is man with zone principles, or zone with man principles depending on the leanings of the coach. The idea that a player who is an offensive juggernaut and runs a team loses 50% of his value because he is a weak defender is the chatter of clowns, or moronic ISHiots who never had coaching beyond a JV level.

Rubio needs serious work on his jump shot to get to a higher level, but he is still young and has euroness working in his favor. To be honest, I like watching him play, the Wolves were smart to keep him, he brings so much energy to the game every time he is on the floor, and once his teammates get more and more comfortable blindly slashing to the hoop for lobs and dishes when he is on the floor knowing full well he will get them the ball, look the f*ck out, this will be a good team. Lest we forget, they had no preseason.

I tune into Wolves games now because he makes it so much more exciting, and if you are a hater, you probably hate pizza, ice cream and shaved snatch too.

F*ck the hater Rubio is awesome.

La Frescobaldi

01-01-2012, 09:01 AM

What if Dwight went to the wolves?

IGOTGAME

01-02-2012, 12:23 AM

is Ricky gonna win ROY?

In the past two games against last year's two playoff finalists (miami and dallas) Ricky the rookie is averaging 13 pts/9.5 as/4.5 rbds on 50% shooting and 70+TS% in just 28 min.

"I know I'm getting used to playing with him when... I actually expected him to bounce pass it through Dirk's legs to me in the corner, that's why I was so ready for the shot"

from Anthony Tolliver

upside24

01-02-2012, 12:28 AM

It's tough to say this soon into their careers but I'd rather have a skilled pass first point guard than a scoring point guard. I'm sure Irving will be a great player but I don't want my point guard doing most of the scoring unless his name is Derrick Rose.

LBJMVP

01-02-2012, 12:44 AM

i cant believe this is even a question.

kyrie irving should be everyone's answer and its obvious why.

Whoah10115

01-02-2012, 01:05 AM

I think Kyrie Irving is going to be very good.

But Rubio has clearly been more impressive so far. And not just more impressive, but he's looked superb. He has chops on D, looks a solid shooter, but more importantly what he creates is incredibly impressive. A lot of his assists are on 3's, so those who want to see that as him not doing much they can go ahead. But he opens up a lot of space and his passing is quite terrific. It has nothing to do with being fancy. It's literally impossible to have watched him play this season and to say he's not been very good. But that's how it is.

Rose

01-02-2012, 01:18 AM

I honestly sometimes think people on here are xenophobes. Rubio IS an average defender, and he's going to get better. He's already shown tremendous vision, and the ability to make his guys better. He can't shoot well, but he takes the right shots at the right time, and at the right place. He doesn't shoot what he doesn't have a good chance of making. period.

Jesus people watch the kid before you make judgments.

Rekindled

01-02-2012, 01:20 AM

i cant believe this is even a question.

kyrie irving should be everyone's answer and its obvious why.

really? irving's shooting numbers this year make brandon jennnings look like steve nash.

RedBlackAttack

01-02-2012, 01:25 AM

really? irving's shooting numbers this year make brandon jennnings look like steve nash.
He has had one rough shooting night and that was in the season opener. Aside from that lone game, he is shooting 46+% from the floor. It is still hard for me to believe that many people on here have watched full Cavaliers games. They haven't played a single marquee team yet (Raps, Pistons, Pacers, Nets).

Meanwhile, the T-Wolves have played several of the teams that people seek out on the dial. Hell, if I weren't a Clevelander, I probably wouldn't have watched a single Cavs game yet.

Meticode

01-02-2012, 01:26 AM

How many Cavs games have you watched?
I've watched all of the Wolves games and the Cavs, and not to knock on Irving, because i want him to be turn into something special, but Rubio has looked awesome out there as a court general compared to Irving.

In watching the games when Rubio is on the floor you feel like he's making everyone better with his court vision and getting players the ball at the right times, Irving I don't feel that...and he has far more sloppy passes.

I sort of expected this from Rubio considering he's played in Spain since he was 14.

All in short if I were to say who's met their expectations between the both of them and surpassed them the most, it would be Rubio so far.

IGOTGAME

01-02-2012, 01:29 AM

RedBlackAttack

01-02-2012, 01:35 AM

I've watched all of the Wolves games and the Cavs, and not to knock on Irving, because i want him to be turn into something special, but Rubio has looked awesome out there as a court general compared to Irving.

In watching the games when Rubio is on the floor you feel like he's making everyone better with his court vision and getting players the ball at the right times, Irving I don't feel that...and he has far more sloppy passes.

I sort of expected this from Rubio considering he's played in Spain since he was 14.

All in short if I were to say who's met their expectations between the both of them and surpassed them the most, it would be Rubio so far.
You are entitled to your opinion. That said, I think it is actually the opposite. A lot of NBA fans had forgotten about Rubio due to his playing overseas for the last couple of seasons. Coming into this season, I didn't get the sense that there were any expectations on Rubio and it is surprising people that he is actually a nice young point guard.

Irving, on the other hand, was the top pick in the draft. That position comes with incredibly high expectations, automatically. Look at ESPN's preseason ROY selections...

http://espn.go.com/nba/preview2011/story/_/page/Predictions1112-ROY/nba-rookie-year-predictions

Irving had almost 4x as many people picking him to win the award. Hell, Rubio wasn't even the most touted rookie on his own team coming into this season. Low expectations can create a larger 'wow' factor when a guy actually begins to pan out.

It is so young in these guys' career, that this conversation is sort of meaningless, anyway. We'll see how these guys improve as the season rolls along. Four games isn't much of a sample size.

The only thing I know for sure is that the Cavs are a much, much better team this year than last. The biggest and most dramatic difference is having a playmaking talent at the PG position... Someone that can actually run Scott's offense. So, I will take my chances with Irving. You guys can have Rubio. We'll see which one ends up being better in the long run.

Meticode

01-02-2012, 01:37 AM

thank you. I have watched 2 and half Cavs games and all the Wolves games. Rubio has just looked better at controlling the games.

Rubio has a truly elite skill that you can't teach. not sure Irving has one of those.
Rubio should look better in-my-opinion. All the experience he has and playing with the World Championships and Olympics along in the Spanish leagues. Irving has what...11 college games under his belt or something and high school before that?

Darius

01-02-2012, 01:40 AM

I have to admit I was down on Rubio as I saw him as just a shorter, less-athletic Sean Livingston.

But I was wrong.

He has that "it" factor that can't be taught... simply put he is more than the sum of his parts (athleticism, shot etc,.)

Irving, on the other hand, is exactly that: the sum of his parts.

His parts are pretty good and he will be a pretty good player but he doesn't have that transcendent factor that will put him over the top.

Meticode

01-02-2012, 01:40 AM

You are entitled to your opinion. That said, I think it is actually the opposite. A lot of NBA fans had forgotten about Rubio due to his playing overseas for the last couple of seasons. Coming into this season, I didn't get the sense that there were any expectations on Rubio and it is surprising people that he is actually a nice young point guard.

Irving, on the other hand, was the top pick in the draft. That position comes with incredibly high expectations, automatically. Look at ESPN's preseason ROY selections...

http://espn.go.com/nba/preview2011/story/_/page/Predictions1112-ROY/nba-rookie-year-predictions

Irving had almost 4x as many people picking him to win the award. Hell, Rubio wasn't even the most touted rookie on his own team coming into this season.
It doesn't change the fact that Rubio is playing more comfortably in his role than Irving is right now and is performing his job better than Irving. The numbers show it, the game footage shows it, and that's how it should be if you think about it. The Wolves have some talent. The Cavs have Jamison, Varejao, Parker and Casspi on the floor with the man. Rubio is called out there to run the floor and distribute, Irving is looking to score first more than pass most of the time.

Also just a piece of advice, I wouldn't post ESPN bullshit if you're debating something. It only hurts the argument. Everyone knows ESPN is a joke when it comes to things like that.

IGOTGAME

01-02-2012, 01:43 AM

Rubio should look better in-my-opinion. All the experience he has and playing with the World Championships and Olympics along in the Spanish leagues. Irving has what...11 college games under his belt or something and high school before that?

the things that make Rubio better can't be taught. That has been my point. Irving at age 30(with hundreds of NBA games) most likely isn't going to be near the passer and playmaker that Rubio is... He is controlling games like a seasoned veteran, wait, better than most seasoned veterans as a rookie. It isn't like he is playing good for a rookie, he is playing very well.

Personally, I never got the hype about Irving. He will be a good player but it sucks for the CAvs that he was the #1 prospect when they had that pick(he might not be a top 4 pick in this draft). Just unlucky for the franchise. This is coming from someone rooting from him because I watched him play alot since he is form my home state.

Meticode

01-02-2012, 01:45 AM

the things that make Rubio better can't be taught. That has been my point. Irving at age 30(with hundreds of NBA games) most likely isn't going to be near the passer and playmaker that Rubio is... He is controlling games like a seasoned veteran, wait, better than most seasoned veterans as a rookie. It isn't like he is playing good for a rookie, he is playing very well.

Personally, I never got the hype about Irving. He will be a good player but it sucks for the CAvs that he was the #1 prospect when they had that pick. Just unlucky for the franchise. This is coming from someone rooting from him because I watched him play alot since he is form my home state.
I'll take what we earn.

RedBlackAttack

01-02-2012, 01:51 AM

It doesn't change the fact that Rubio is playing more comfortably in his role than Irving is right now and is performing his job better than Irving. The numbers show it, the game footage shows it, and that's how it should be if you think about it. The Wolves have some talent. The Cavs have Jamison, Varejao, Parker and Casspi on the floor with the man. Rubio is called out there to run the floor and distribute, Irving is looking to score first more than pass most of the time.

Also just a piece of advice, I wouldn't post ESPN bullshit if you're debating something. It only hurts the argument. Everyone knows ESPN is a joke when it comes to things like that.
Huh?

ESPN, while largely idiotic, will follow suit with the general public in gauging expectation.... And, I believe the above link shows what most people in the general crowd believed coming into the season. I didn't hear jack sh!t about Rubio for the most part coming into this year. Look at virtually any ROY prognostications and you will not find much in the way of hype for Rubio prior to the season starting.

I think a lot of people had already dismissed him as being a productive NBA player, as misguided as that may have been.

And, as for who their respective teammates are, don't you take things like that into consideration when evaluating players? I certainly do.

The Cavs have basically no finishers. When you don't have many guys that can put the ball in the basket, it is going to be hard to put up gaudy assist numbers.

Still, you say that the numbers back up Rubio as being better than Irving. Coming into tonight's games..

Kyrie - 27 mpg, 13.3 ppg, 6 apg, 4 rpg, 1.3 spg
Ricky - 28 mpg, 8 ppg, 7.3 apg, 4 rpg, 1.3 spg

:confusedshrug:

Rubio hype is getting out of control. I'm not even saying that Irving is clearly better... Or better at all. I just think people are getting a little ahead of themselves with Rubio.

Rose

01-02-2012, 01:57 AM

And, as for who their respective teammates are, don't you take things like that into consideration when evaluating players? I certainly do.

The Cavs have basically no finishers. When you don't have many guys that can put the ball in the basket, it is going to be hard to put up gaudy assist numbers.

Still, you say that the numbers back up Rubio as being better than Irving. Coming into tonight's games..

Kyrie - 13.3 ppg, 6 apg, 4 rpg, 1.3 spg
Ricky - 8 ppg, 7.3 apg, 4 rpg, 1.3 spg

:confusedshrug:
I totally agree with the bolded. But there's something to be said about Rubio. He's making players better. Anthony Tolliver has actually been ridiculously good with Rubio, and in he 4th quarter. ANTHONY TOLLIVER!!! who? Not only that but he's not really making mistakes and his team is close to winning games. Now that's talent related I'll give you that but who besides Love would you want? Beasley has actually been bad their last two games. And they beat Dallas tonight, and barely lost to Miami. And they opened up with OKC, and Milwaukee in addition to those teams.

Compared to Toronto, Detroit, Indiana and new Jersey. And the Wolves haven't been blown out. I think the better talent of Love and Beasley is negated by having some tough competition.

Kyrie's played well I watched him against Toronto a bit against Jersey, and a few minutes against the Pistons. But I just think Rubio's done more when you factor it all together. Not saying Kyrie's bad, or even close. I just believe Rubio is doing more right now.

RedBlackAttack

01-02-2012, 02:03 AM

I totally agree with the bolded. But there's something to be said about Rubio. He's making players better. Anthony Tolliver has actually been ridiculously good with Rubio, and in he 4th quarter. ANTHONY TOLLIVER!!! who? Not only that but he's not really making mistakes and his team is close to winning games. Now that's talent related I'll give you that but who besides Love would you want? Beasley has actually been bad their last two games. And they beat Dallas tonight, and barely lost to Miami. And they opened up with OKC, and Milwaukee in addition to those teams.

Compared to Toronto, Detroit, Indiana and new Jersey. And the Wolves haven't been blown out. I think the better talent of Love and Beasley is negated by having some tough competition.

Kyrie's played well I watched him against Toronto a bit against Jersey, and a few minutes against the Pistons. But I just think Rubio's done more when you factor it all together. Not saying Kyrie's bad, or even close. I just believe Rubio is doing more right now.
Again, I'm not trying to cut down Rubio. At this point in their respective careers, he really should be the more polished player. He is older and has been playing against other professionals for years.

I have no reason to dislike the guy. I don't like getting into these petty, made up rivalries between players that are in completely different situations. Rubio has been good this year.... Much better than I thought he would be. He has exceeded my expectations.

At the same time, so has Irving. I really did not think he would have the immediate impact that he has had.

Hopefully, Rubio will continue to do a nice job, because I like to see the small markets flourish.

The_Yearning

01-02-2012, 02:07 AM

You are entitled to your opinion. That said, I think it is actually the opposite. A lot of NBA fans had forgotten about Rubio due to his playing overseas for the last couple of seasons. Coming into this season, I didn't get the sense that there were any expectations on Rubio and it is surprising people that he is actually a nice young point guard.

Irving, on the other hand, was the top pick in the draft. That position comes with incredibly high expectations, automatically. Look at ESPN's preseason ROY selections...

http://espn.go.com/nba/preview2011/story/_/page/Predictions1112-ROY/nba-rookie-year-predictions

Irving had almost 4x as many people picking him to win the award. Hell, Rubio wasn't even the most touted rookie on his own team coming into this season. Low expectations can create a larger 'wow' factor when a guy actually begins to pan out.

It is so young in these guys' career, that this conversation is sort of meaningless, anyway. We'll see how these guys improve as the season rolls along. Four games isn't much of a sample size.

The only thing I know for sure is that the Cavs are a much, much better team this year than last. The biggest and most dramatic difference is having a playmaking talent at the PG position... Someone that can actually run Scott's offense. So, I will take my chances with Irving. You guys can have Rubio. We'll see which one ends up being better in the long run.

Lol I just stopped there. No expectations for Rubio? Ahahahah.

First of all, this draft class with the exception of Rubio was weak as hell and nobody knew anything of it. I would say ony 40% of NBA fans know who the hell Irving is and only 20% has seen him play.

Rose

01-02-2012, 02:10 AM

Again, I'm not trying to cut down Rubio. At this point in their respective careers, he really should be the more polished player. He is older and has been playing against other professionals for years.

I have no reason to dislike the guy. I don't like getting into these petty, made up rivalries between players that are in completely different situations. Rubio has been good this year.... Much better than I thought he would be. He has exceeded my expectations.

At the same time, so has Irving. I really did not think he would have the immediate impact that he has had.

Hopefully, Rubio will continue to do a nice job, because I like to see the small markets flourish.
Oh I thought you were saying Irving was clearly above him.:oldlol:

I totally think they're both doing very well so far in their situations. I personally favor Rubio but I've been a fan since 08. I'm just glad both franchises are looking like they have their points of the future. Especially Cleveland, you guys deserve it, and all the good luck and players you can get.:cheers:

RedBlackAttack

01-02-2012, 02:11 AM

Lol I just stopped there. No expectations for Rubio? Ahahahah.

First of all, this draft class with the exception of Rubio was weak as hell and nobody knew anything of it. I would say ony 40% of NBA fans know who the hell Irving is and only 20% has seen him play.
I agree with the last part, for sure.

The rest of your post? Not so much.

One thing, though... If such a low percentage of people have watched the guy play, how can so many have an opinion on his game?

Meticode

01-02-2012, 02:17 AM

Huh?

ESPN, while largely idiotic, will follow suit with the general public in gauging expectation.... And, I believe the above link shows what most people in the general crowd believed coming into the season. I didn't hear jack sh!t about Rubio for the most part coming into this year. Look at virtually any ROY prognostications and you will not find much in the way of hype for Rubio prior to the season starting.
No they don't. I definitely disagree with you on that.

And, as for who their respective teammates are, don't you take things like that into consideration when evaluating players? I certainly do.
No I don't. The thread is "Rubio or Irving". Rubio is doing a better at what's he's been asked to do than Irving has thus far.

The Cavs have basically no finishers. When you don't have many guys that can put the ball in the basket, it is going to be hard to put up gaudy assist numbers.
I didn't say he had to put up gaudy assist numbers.

Still, you say that the numbers back up Rubio as being better than Irving. Coming into tonight's games..

Kyrie - 27 mpg, 13.3 ppg, 6 apg, 4 rpg, 1.3 spg
Ricky - 28 mpg, 8 ppg, 7.3 apg, 4 rpg, 1.3 spg

:confusedshrug:

Rubio hype is getting out of control. I'm not even saying that Irving is clearly better... Or better at all. I just think people are getting a little ahead of themselves with Rubio.
You forgot a few numbers...

Kyrie - 12.75 shots per game, 39.2% from the field.
Rubio - 5.25 shots per game, 57% from the field.

Also Rubio has a better turnover to assist ratio as well.

RedBlackAttack

01-02-2012, 02:28 AM

No they don't. I definitely disagree with you on that.

I think a lot of people had already dismissed him as being a productive NBA player, as misguided as that may have been.

Huh?

No I don't. The thread is "Rubio or Irving". Rubio is doing a better at what's he's been asked to do than Irving has thus far.

Actually, what is being asked is, according to the OP...

Who would you rather have as your franchise pg?

I didn't say he had to put up gaudy assist numbers.
I didn't say that you said he has to put up gaudy assist numbers. I was just making a statement.

You forgot a few numbers...

Kyrie - 12.75 shots per game, 39.2% from the field.
Rubio - 5.25 shots per game, 57% from the field.

Also has a better turnover to assist ratio as well.

Two entirely different situations.

Irving is being asked to carry the scoring load and, with that comes less efficiency than a guy who is only expected to shoot when the defense purposely ignores him and doesn't even close out on his jumper.

Irving is making 46+% of his shots since the opener and I'll take that considering how much of the playmaking load he is being asked to carry.

And, again, assist to turnover ratio is also skewed based on whether or not your teammates can... you know.... make shots.

Hey, if you would rather have Rubio, that's fine. You are entitled to your opinion. Personally, I will take the other guy for the long term.

The intent of this thread was to debate which guy you would rather have as your franchise point guard, unless I'm reading it incorrectly.

ALBballer

01-02-2012, 02:40 AM

I've only see Irving play a handful of games in college and I've seen Rubio play a few games in the NBA, and Rubio has been extremely impressive. The guy has all the traits you look for in a PG and he's extremely unselfish.

As for Irving, nothing really stood out to me. He is extremely quick and probably get to the basket at will. That's all I can remember.

I haven't seen enough of either player to make a solid comparison.

As for now, I'll say Rubio.

Meticode

01-02-2012, 02:43 AM

Huh?
If you look back at my post again I edited the second line out. It was leftover from what you said. I was just disagreeing.

Actually, what is being asked is, according to the OP...
True enough.

I didn't say that you said he has to put up gaudy assist numbers. I was just making a statement.
Fair enough. I wasn't sure why you even brought it up.

Two entirely different situations.
Irving is being asked to carry the scoring load and, with that comes less efficiency than a guy who is only expected to shoot when the defense purposely ignores him and doesn't even close out on his jumper.
Which reverts back to what I originally said. Rubio is doing a better job at what he's been asked to do versus what Irving is doing. That's all I've been saying the beginning. It just further proves my point.

Irving is making 46+% of his shots since the opener and I'll take that considering how much of the playmaking load he is being asked to carry.
This is true, but you put aside the first game like it doesn't exist for some reason to make yourself feel better about what you're saying. Let's just call it as it is and say he's making 39% of his shots from the field since the season started and stop picking and choosing which games to not include.

And, again, assist to turnover ratio is also skewed based on whether or not your teammates can... you know.... make shots.
I've watched all the games versus between both players. Irving has made way more bad passes for turnovers versus Rubio. While players making shots has some to do with it, the biggest disparity is Rubio is getting the ball to where it needs to be and Irving isn't doing it as efficiently. Which is to be expected in-my-opinion.

Hey, if you would rather have Rubio, that's fine. You are entitled to your opinion. Personally, I will take the other guy for the long term.

The intent of this thread was to debate which guy you would rather have as your franchise point guard, unless I'm reading it incorrectly.
From what I've seen from both players right now as it stands 4 games into their NBA career, Rubio has impressed me more. And it's not because he got drafted and everyone forgot about him, it's the fact he's playing the position the way it's traditionally meant to be played, and he's doing it well for a 21 year old.

I would probably take Rubio to be honest. Scoring point guards don't win championships in recent memory.

FireMcFailPlease

01-02-2012, 02:45 AM

gimme rubioooooooooooooooooooooo

RedBlackAttack

01-02-2012, 02:52 AM

I've watched all the games versus between both players. Irving has made way more bad passes for turnovers versus Rubio. While players making shots has some to do with it, the biggest disparity is Rubio is getting the ball to where it needs to be and Irving isn't doing it as efficiently. Which is to be expected in-my-opinion.

I think Rubio's assist numbers would look pretty similar to Irving's if you put him on this Cavs' team. The T-Wolves may not be a great team, but they have a ton of offense on that roster. The Cavs are a much better team defensively.

I would probably take Rubio to be honest. Scoring point guards don't win championships in recent memory.

That is really all that needs to be said. I will take the more rounded player with the higher upside which, imo, is Irving. I don't consider Kyrie a 'scoring point.' I just think that, on this particular team, he has to score in order to give them the best chance to win. I expect the Cavs to have a nice spot in this year's draft and, when he is surrounded by other guys who can score, you will see a more traditional point guard.

But, I also think that it is important for a point guard to be able to both drive and kick and force the opponent to defend you on the perimeter. Those are the kinds of attributes that open up the floor for everyone else.

Sampsonsimpson

01-02-2012, 02:56 AM

- Poor man to man defense
- Not confident enough in his shot to be a factor on offense

Those are the 2 prominent things that stand out as a detriment to him.

I also question his mental toughness as well as his durability to hold up physically for an entire season. I believe he had some injury issues in Europe as well. Hes only facing bigger, stronger, faster players at this level.

But lets overlook that because he can pass the ball all fancy and stuff.

12 Assists with 5 Turnovers. Impressive.:rolleyes:

He sells tickets & is marketable, having the Minnesota crowd chant his name and go nuts when he touches the ball means they'll continue to fill up those seats to watch him play live.

Man your just hatin on him. Cmon, you know he's been playing very good, especially considering everyone thought he'd be absolute trash. He's a rookie, comes from a completely different brand of basketball, and he's still playin pretty good.

And get that 12 assists 5 turnovers bullcrap outta here, Russell Westbrook gets like 5 assists and 12 turnovers and nobody thinks he's a can..

Pra

01-02-2012, 03:02 AM

Rubio. Has more experience, his Europe experience > Irving's half a season of college. (maybe less? I do not follow NCAA enough)

FireMcFailPlease

01-02-2012, 03:10 AM

irving played about 10 games, got hurt...came back and made duke considerably worse.

Meticode

01-02-2012, 03:15 AM

irving played about 10 games, got hurt...came back and made duke considerably worse.
Just to mention, he wasn't 100% when he came back either.

FireMcFailPlease

01-02-2012, 03:33 AM

Just to mention, he wasn't 100% when he came back either.
yea but he still made them considerably worse

Alamo

01-02-2012, 03:38 AM

I don't know where this turnover argument is coming from.

Rubio averages 2.7 turnovers in 28.3 minutes per game. It's not good, but it certainly isn't that bad compared to Russel Westbrook's 5.4 turnovers in 31 minutes, or Deron Williams' 4.5 turnovers in 33 minutes.

Rubio actually has a better Assist to turnover ratio than most PGs so far. One bad game doesn't stand out.

When it comes to his shooting, he doesn't take many shots but he hits the ones he does put up.

It's still very early in their careers, but at this point I would take Rubio.

Qwertyazerty

01-02-2012, 05:06 AM

Another important aspect about Rubio's style is making his teammates happy. He allows everyone to touch the ball on offense and distributes shoots not taking many of them. This can help to team building and increase confident for those not being the focal point in offense.

That being said, I'm not in favor of this kind of threads (X versus Y)... it is not because I like the first that the second isn't good or the opposite.

Euroleague

01-02-2012, 06:08 AM

Ricky Rubio's Spanish League Stats:

32.0 Field Goal %

25.9 Three Point Field Goal %

77.1 Free Throw %

4.8 Points Per Game

4.1 Assists Per Game

3.2 Rebounds Per Game

1.6 Steals Per Game

Ricky Rubio's Euroleague Stats:

31.0 Field Goal %

22.4 Three Point Field Goal %

83.6 Free Throw %

6.5 Points Per Game

3.5 Assists Per Game

3.2 Rebounds Per Game

1.6 Steals Per Game

alenleomessi

01-02-2012, 06:19 AM

I think even Cavs fans will be laughing at this thread in two years.

DukeDelonte13

01-02-2012, 10:06 AM

I think even Cavs fans will be laughing at this thread in two years.

Doubtful. They are both going to be in the next crop of elite PGs.

bluechox2

01-02-2012, 10:08 AM

Cleavland is asking irving to be the next lebron, which isnt happening,
the kid needs to relax and play his game

B-Easy8

01-02-2012, 10:17 AM

Doubtful. They are both going to be in the next crop of elite PGs.

I agree

I don't think you can go wrong with either and I think they will both be very good but I would take Rubio.

chips93

01-02-2012, 01:36 PM

rubio has been better so far, but definitely irving for the future

the gap between irving and rubio's scoring, is much bigger than the gap between their play making.

rubio's scoring is almost non-existent, while irving has shown great potential, getting to the rim, hitting shots off of the dribble, creating his own offense, that rubio hasnt come close to.

both are decent ball-defenders, and rebounding is pretty close.

irving will be a much better player than rubio in a few years time.

Cleavland is asking irving to be the next lebron, which isnt happening,
the kid needs to relax and play his game

have you watched any of the games? how are they asking him to be lebron?

in fact, they arent running many plays for him, not as many as i expected. hes only playing 27 mins a game.

nobody in cleveland is asking him to be the next lebron.

IGOTGAME

01-02-2012, 02:06 PM

Rubio ranks 8th in the LG for assist as a rookie.

bisk

01-02-2012, 02:10 PM

Cleavland is asking irving to be the next lebron, which isnt happening,
the kid needs to relax and play his game

Wow....talk about clueless.

returnofthemack

01-02-2012, 02:34 PM

Cleavland is asking irving to be the next lebron, which isnt happening,
the kid needs to relax and play his game

nobod and i mean nobody expects him to be the next lebron. we want him to be the next jason kidd or chris paul :D . seriously though we would be very happy if he develops into a solid pg who can be a great number 2 on a championship team. wait a minute now that i think of it if the heat win title this ear lebron would be the number 2 on a championship team. hmmm....

adbgonzalez

01-02-2012, 02:42 PM

rubio has been better so far, but definitely irving for the future

the gap between irving and rubio's scoring, is much bigger than the gap between their play making.

Well... Rubio has proved he's a good playmaker, but Irving has not proved he's a good scorer yet.
Irving -> 13.3 ppg, 0.392 fg%, 0.364 3p%
Rubio -> 9.5 ppg, 0.571 fg%, 0.667 3p%

I hope Irving improves his %, but right now, he's NOT a good scorer.
In the future, Rubio must take more shots without dropping too much his % and Irving must improve them. Both need to make less turnovers. If they do that, they'll be fine.

chips93

01-02-2012, 09:25 PM

Well... Rubio has proved he's a good playmaker, but Irving has not proved he's a good scorer yet.
Irving -> 13.3 ppg, 0.392 fg%, 0.364 3p%
Rubio -> 9.5 ppg, 0.571 fg%, 0.667 3p%

I hope Irving improves his %, but right now, he's NOT a good scorer.
In the future, Rubio must take more shots without dropping too much his % and Irving must improve them. Both need to make less turnovers. If they do that, they'll be fine.

im not gonna argue stats, but ive watched all of irving's games and about half of rubio's and its clear irving has more scoring instincts/skills.

he can get into the paint, finish well at the rim, can hit floaters, can hit threes, can hit mid-range off of the dribble, mid-range off of a curl, and he has shown the ability/inteligence to get himself to the line.

rubio cant do any of these things, while irving can.

thats the difference in their scoring.

La Frescobaldi

01-02-2012, 10:13 PM

im not gonna argue stats, but ive watched all of irving's games and about half of rubio's and its clear irving has more scoring instincts/skills.

he can get into the paint, finish well at the rim, can hit floaters, can hit threes, can hit mid-range off of the dribble, mid-range off of a curl, and he has shown the ability/inteligence to get himself to the line.

rubio cant do any of these things, while irving can.

thats the difference in their scoring.

does that mean you'd rather have your point guard shooting?

I've always feared that more than anything else on a basketball team. A shooting point guard has to potential to be the quintessential ballhog.

PTB Fan

01-02-2012, 10:17 PM

If Kyrie's team mates were finishing most of his passes, then, he'd have at least 8 assists per game

chips93

01-02-2012, 11:05 PM

does that mean you'd rather have your point guard shooting?

I've always feared that more than anything else on a basketball team. A shooting point guard has to potential to be the quintessential ballhog.

im saying these are all the things he has shown he can do. hes not doing them every game.

irving has shown the ability to score, but hes hasnt shown a chucking mentality, hes only taken a handful of forced shots so far this season. if anything id want him shooting a little more, well at least atacking a little more.

he has shown a ton of patience, and a willingness to run the offense, as well as good scoring ability, and his passing is good too, just not elite like rubio's.

both guys have very bright futures

sixer6ad

01-02-2012, 11:10 PM

[QUOTE=bluechox2]Cleavland is asking irving to be the next lebron, which isnt happening,
the kid needs to relax and play his game[/QUOTE

ISH misquote of the year. Totally uniformed statement. Nobody has said it or acted like it for a split second.

chips93

01-02-2012, 11:13 PM

ISH misquote of the year. Totally uniformed statement. Nobody has said it or acted like it for a split second.

even dan gilbert has been really low key about irving, nobody is getting carried away

La Frescobaldi

01-02-2012, 11:59 PM

im saying these are all the things he has shown he can do. hes not doing them every game.

irving has shown the ability to score, but hes hasnt shown a chucking mentality, hes only taken a handful of forced shots so far this season. if anything id want him shooting a little more, well at least atacking a little more.

he has shown a ton of patience, and a willingness to run the offense, as well as good scoring ability, and his passing is good too, just not elite like rubio's.

both guys have very bright futures

That's awesome... Had not been able to catch more than highlights yet

chips93

01-03-2012, 12:06 AM

That's awesome... Had not been able to catch more than highlights yet

ive been really impressed so far. he is still doing dumb rookie things, lacks consistency, but he looks like he belongs, he has the poise of an nba pg, and has shown flashes of real potential.

Meticode

01-03-2012, 12:07 AM

Cleavland is asking irving to be the next lebron, which isnt happening,
the kid needs to relax and play his game
How are they asking him to be the next LeBron?

IGOTGAME

01-03-2012, 01:29 AM

heads up. they play each other on Friday!

IGOTGAME

01-06-2012, 02:01 PM

It is about time Ricky is getting some Rookie of the year love.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-120106/nba-best-rookies-early-going

IGOTGAME

01-12-2012, 03:12 PM

Magic Johnson, the man who probably knows more about the passing game than anybody in the history of basketball, saw Rubio go 0-for-5 shooting with three assists in an exhibition victory over the Lakers nearly two years ago, and still he came away certain Rubio would be at the very least a good NBA point guard. I told Magic the Timberwolves were nuts for wasting the No. 5 overall pick in 2009 on this kid who kept putting up zeros in international competition. Magic said, and I quote, "You're going to be wrong. Listen to me on this kid. He'll be better in the NBA than he is in Europe because our guys are more athletic and they run to the rim. In Europe, guys don't really run the break; they fan out around the 3-point line, they pump-fake, they look to score in other ways. Our guys are going to see a dude who can pass it like Rubio and run like hell to the rim. Trust me."

"There's a difference," Magic said by way of explanation, "between making a pass to somebody and creating a shot for a guy. Rubio creates a shot. He's got instincts, great instincts."

"One of his best attributes is nothing fazes him."

"The last five years, people were coming after that kid every single game," Ronzone said. "And he's just a buck-80."

His talent, of course, is much bigger than his frame, and from what we've already seen, his impact could be bigger than his tangible talents. Only 10 games into his NBA career, I find myself for the first time in years sneaking a peek at Timberwolves games to see if Rubio is going to throw a pass that makes me hit rewind. If you're going to be as dead, stupid wrong about a position as I was about how good Rubio would be in the NBA, at least let it happen quickly while there is still standing room on the back of the kid's bandwagon.

Haters are starting to come around

http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/wilbon-120112/ricky-rubio-success-minnesota-timberwolves-no-surprise

MK2V1GP

01-12-2012, 03:28 PM

Haters are starting to come around

:banana: :banana: :banana:

donald love

01-12-2012, 10:06 PM

Rubio.

And somebody please give him a nickname!
Rubio the Horrible.

RedBlackAttack

01-12-2012, 10:45 PM

Haters are starting to come around

http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/wilbon-120112/ricky-rubio-success-minnesota-timberwolves-no-surprise
The question is, when are haters going to come around on Kyrie?

Ahem. Don't think I haven't noticed.

mrhoopfan

01-13-2012, 12:42 AM

The question is, when are haters going to come around on Kyrie?

Ahem. Don't think I haven't noticed.

Exactly..........leading sorry ass Cleveland to a 5-5 record, including 7 of 10 games on the road

RedBlackAttack

01-13-2012, 12:49 AM

Tonight's line for Kyrie.....

26 points on 11-of-17 shooting, 6 assists, 3 rebounds, 2 steals

...including several huge plays at the end to seal a win for the Cavs in Phoenix.

IGOTGAME

01-13-2012, 12:49 AM

Exactly..........leading sorry ass Cleveland to a 5-5 record, including 7 of 10 games on the road

look at the teams they are playing.

I just don't think many people care about Cavs and Kyrie isn't realy doing anything to change that. He is a good player and will likely be an all star. I would just rather my point guard not shot 18 times per 36 minutes. That is about the amount of shots that Wade has taken per 36 over his career, Reggie Miller has not once shot at that pace per game. People are comparing him to Chris Paul("more athletic Chris Paul") and Isiah Thomas("better shooting Isiah Thomas") and that is where I have drown the line. People ignore all the things that Paul and Thomas did better even at that age.

Again, I like watching Kyrie but Cavs fans have gone a little too far with the comparisons.

Tonight's line for Kyrie.....

26 points on 11-of-17 shooting, 6 assists, 3 rebounds, 2 steals

don't forget the 6 turnovers. can't reay act like 6 assists is an asset when it was off set by 6 turnovers. Looks like the line of a shooting guard. But, I didn't see the game yet. Might watch it now.

chips93

01-13-2012, 12:58 AM

look at the teams they are playing.

I just don't think many people care about Cavs and Kyrie isn't realy doing anything to change that. He is a good player and will likely be an all star. I would just rather my point guard not shot 18 times per 36 minutes. That is about the amount of shots that Wade has taken per 36 over his career, Reggie Miller has not once shot at that pace per game. People are comparing him to Chris Paul("more athletic Chris Paul") and Isiah Thomas("better shooting Isiah Thomas") and that is where I have drown the line. People ignore all the things that Paul and Thomas did better even at that age

so who should be taking those shots instead of him? jamison? andy? casspi? the cavs need him to score to win

only idiots have called him a more athletic chris paul, or a netter shooting isiah thomas. actually, i havent seen anybody call him these things, if you could link to anybody saying these things id appreciate it.

somebody compared him to tim hardaway. i think thats a nice comp. maybe d-will with more limited court vision.

fact is, rubio plays a more attractive brand of basketball than irving, so he will always get some undeserved praise, compared to irving.

i look forward to watching these two pgs grow up.

RedBlackAttack

01-13-2012, 01:01 AM

look at the teams they are playing.

I just don't think many people care about Cavs and Kyrie isn't realy doing anything to change that. He is a good player and will likely be an all star. I would just rather my point guard not shot 18 times per 36 minutes. That is about the amount of shots that Wade has taken per 36 over his career. People are comparing him to Chris Paul("more athletic Chris Paul") and Isiah Thomas("better shooting Isiah Thomas") and that is where I have drown the line. People ignore all the things that Paul and Thomas did better even at that age.

Again, I like watching Kyrie but Cavs fans have gone a little too far with the comparisons.
C'mon, man. You are better than that.

Really, who cares if Kyrie "makes people want to watch the Cavs"? You think we honestly care about that? And, for the record, I think he is a pretty damned exciting player.

As for comparisons to Thomas or Paul or whoever... Who cares? The only person I have seen doing that is PB and he is just trying to get under people's skin.

I'm happy with having Kyrie Irving, and I don't care if he turns out to be like Thomas or Paul or whoever. Kid looks good to me.

Jason Williams made people tune in, but was he a better point guard than Gary Payton? That doesn't mean jack sh!t.

IGOTGAME

01-13-2012, 01:06 AM

C'mon, man. You are better than that.

Really, who cares if Kyrie "makes people want to watch the Cavs"? You think we honestly care about that? And, for the record, I think he is a pretty damned exciting player.

As for comparisons to Thomas or Paul or whoever... Who cares? The only person I have seen doing that is PB and he is just trying to get under people's skin.

I'm happy with having Kyrie Irving, and I don't care if he turns out to be like Thomas or Paul or whoever. Kid looks good to me.

Jason Williams made people tune in, but was he a better point guard than Gary Payton? That doesn't mean jack sh!t.

Who said it meant anything. It was just an observation. I think haters arent coming around on Kyrie because they don't watch him. They don't watch him because there is no buzz in Cleveland and he isn't putting up jaw dropping numbers or all over espn.

Only thing that bothers me is he looks more like a scoring pf than a pure pg. I don't like me pg to be that shot happy. I saw the same thing at Duke. He is a lot hungrier for shots than I expected at both Duke and Cleveland.

He is gonna be good, just expressing some concerns.

RedBlackAttack

01-13-2012, 01:14 AM

Who said it meant anything. It was just an observation. I think haters arent coming around on Kyrie because they don't watch him. They don't watch him because there is no buzz in Cleveland and he isn't putting up jaw dropping numbers or all over espn.

Only thing that bothers me is he looks more like a scoring pf than a pure pg. I don't like me pg to be that shot happy. I saw the same thing at Duke. He is a lot hungrier for shots than I expected at both Duke and Cleveland.

He is gonna be good, just expressing some concerns.
It would be a valid concern if he were on a team that was full of guys who could create their own shots or playmake, like Minnesota, for example. The Cavaliers' starting roster is still mainly remnants of the James era, filled with guys who rely on a playmaker to create so that they can do their jobs.

I feel like Kyrie is doing right now what he needs to do to give the Cavs the best opportunity to win. He is supplying exactly the kind of role that we needed last year, but it never showed up... A team full of complimentary players built to be put around a lone playmaker who would do the scoring and the setting of the table for others to succeed.

And, it shows... The Cavs are .500 right now. I don't think anyone saw that coming, regardless of schedule. If we draft a pure scorer next year and Kyrie starts pulling a Westbrook, I will be concerned.

Until then, he has the green light at all times, which I'm sure is what Byron is telling him. He seems very coachable and bright. I'm sure he will adjust if the team changes.

PleezeBelieve

01-13-2012, 01:17 AM

Nobody gives a sh*t about your concerns. If Kyrie were white you would be on his nuts. I know this because you're on Rubio's jock and Kyrie is the better player, rookie, prospect or whatever you want to call it.

And Kyrie CERTAINLY looks like a bigger, better shooting Isiah Thomas. He plays just like the guy.

TaLvsCuaL

01-13-2012, 01:17 AM

IGOTGAME

01-13-2012, 01:24 AM

It would be a valid concern if he were on a team that was full of guys who could create their own shots or playmake, like Minnesota, for example. The Cavaliers' starting roster is still mainly remnants of the James era, filled with guys who rely on a playmaker to create so that they can do their jobs.

I feel like Kyrie is doing right now what he needs to do to give the Cavs the best opportunity to win. He is supplying exactly the kind of role that we needed last year, but it never showed up... A team full of complimentary players built to be put around a lone playmaker who would do the scoring and the setting of the table for others to succeed.

And, it shows... The Cavs are .500 right now. I don't think anyone saw that coming, regardless of schedule. If we draft a pure scorer next year and Kyrie starts pulling a Westbrook, I will be concerned.

Until then, he has the green light at all times, which I'm sure is what Byron is telling him. He seems very coachable and bright. I'm sure he will adjust if the team changes.

they have beaten the Pistons, Raptors, Nets, Bobcats, Minnesota and Phx. Is that susposed to be impressive. That is the weakest schedule I have seen anyone play in the league off hand. The only two good teams(Indy is just decent) they played were Indy and Portland(blowout).

I'm not gonna just say it is ok because they are beating bad team. I am not just gonna pretend he can turn on a switch and become a pass first pg with superior passing skills like CP3. In Duke he shot first, in Cleveland he is shooting a lot. Until he proves otherwise, he seems like a shot first pg.

PleezeBelieve

01-13-2012, 01:25 AM

Irving's prodigious talent, his shooting mechanics is magnificent, is calm and intelligent, and its ceiling is unlimited. Rubio is also a great talent but very different, I think Rubio brings more intangibles than Kirie, such as tempo control or his decision making, so I think the comparison is odious. Both are great players already, have great leadership and are future stars. I like both.
Crack is wack. Rubio is not a great player. Great players impose their will on the game. The Wolves look just like they did last year, a team who plays up and down but no D. Hence they remain a below average team.

What portal did I enter with all this Rubio bullsh*t hyping??

TaLvsCuaL

01-13-2012, 01:26 AM

Crack is wack. Rubio is not a great player. Great players impose their will on the game. The Wolves look just like they did last year, a team who plays up and down but no D. Hence they remain a below average team.

What portal did I enter with all this Rubio bullsh*t hyping??

http://memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/12/12862/13171100.jpg

RedBlackAttack

01-13-2012, 01:27 AM

they have beaten the Pistons, Raptors, Nets, Bobcats, Minnesota and Phx. Is that susposed to be impressive. That is the weakest schedule I have seen anyone play in the league off hand. The only two good teams(Indy is just decent) they played were Indy and Portland(blowout).

I'm not gonna just say it is ok because they are beating bad team. I am not just gonna pretend he can turn on a switch and become a pass first pg with superior passing skills like CP3. In Duke he shot first, in Cleveland he is shooting a lot. Until he proves otherwise, he seems like a shot first pg.
The point you are clearly missing is that the CAVS were the worst team in the league last year (or second... whatever). We lost over 25 straight games at one stretch. I'm not saying this team is a contender. :oldlol:

When you are the worst in the league, NO WIN is easily dismissed. The fact that we are beating bad teams is a great f#cking sign for where this team was last season.

IGOTGAME

01-13-2012, 01:30 AM

The point you are clearly missing is that the CAVS were the worst team in the league last year (or second... whatever). We lost over 25 straight games at one stretch. I'm not saying this team is a contender. :oldlol:

When you are the worst in the league, NO WIN is easily dismissed. The fact that we are beating bad teams is a great f#cking sign.
My post was about the prospects not the teams.

The Cavs are playing good to great defense. That is just as important to the wins if not more so than Kyrie's presence. I'm not dismissing the wins, I am just not crediting them solely to Kyrie Irving.

They are beating a bunch of bad teams because they are playing good defense and bringing a lot of energy. We'll see how long that works in the long run.

Again, I have nothing against Kyrie...I just prefer pg who don't look for that shot as quickly as he has in both Duke and in the NBA. Maybe it will change, we'll see.

PleezeBelieve

01-13-2012, 01:31 AM

they have beaten the Pistons, Raptors, Nets, Bobcats, Minnesota and Phx. Is that susposed to be impressive. That is the weakest schedule I have seen anyone play in the league off hand. The only two good teams(Indy is just decent) they played were Indy and Portland(blowout).

I'm not gonna just say it is ok because they are beating bad team. I am not just gonna pretend he can turn on a switch and become a pass first pg with superior passing skills like CP3. In Duke he shot first, in Cleveland he is shooting a lot. Until he proves otherwise, he seems like a shot first pg.
Cavs 10 games played : seven on the road

Wolves 10 games played: seven at home

Cavs record: 5-5

Wolves record: 3-7

Cavs vs Wolves: Cavs won on the road rather easily and Kyrie was the best player on the floor

Case closed, chump.

IGOTGAME

01-13-2012, 01:34 AM

Cavs 10 games played : seven on the road

Wolves 10 games played: seven at home

Cavs record: 5-5

Wolves record: 3-7

Cavs vs Wolves: Cavs won on the road rather easily and Kyrie was the best player on the floor

Case closed, chump.

Yep, Case Closed. The Cavs look better than the T-Wolves after 10 games. That really means a lot in the context of this thread bum.

PleezeBelieve

01-13-2012, 01:38 AM

Yep, Case Closed. The Cavs look better than the T-Wolves after 10 games. That really means a lot in the context of this thread bum.
They look better because they have the best prospect among the two teams.

RedBlackAttack

01-13-2012, 01:51 AM

IGOTGAME

01-13-2012, 02:04 AM

I am sensing a bout of deja vu, here. IGOT, didn't we have these same exact discussions in '03 when both LeBron and 'Melo were rookies and we were comparing and contrasting them?

I just totally had a flashback.

Should I just call you Younggrease to make it more of a mindf#ck?

and didn't I tell you about Lebron's weaknesses that got exposed in the playoffs the last few years. You denied and denied them....then they happened and you realized that it was true.

Also, part of the reason I don't like Lebron is personal. I had a couple run ins with him on the AAU circuit and thought he was an asshole(maybe the biggest ass I have ever come in contact with). My only argument then was that Melo should have gotten rookie of the year or at least more consideration.

But, I also make threads about players projecting them all the time. I am usually right a lot more than I am wrong. Just like with Kyrie, it is no surprise to me. I have been watching Kyrie Irving play for the last 3 years up at St. Pats.

Kyrie is going to be a multiple time all star player. I just think he shots to much for my liking. I am being harsh on him but I am like that too young players. But, remember I have never once said he isn't all star player. The only question I have is will he ever be an all-nba player.

RedBlackAttack

01-13-2012, 02:11 AM

and didn't I tell you about Lebron's weaknesses that got exposed in the playoffs the last few years. You denied and denied them....then they happened and you realized that it was true.

Also, part of the reason I don't like Lebron is personal. I had a couple run ins with him on the AAU circuit and thought he was an asshole(maybe the biggest ass I have ever come in contact with). My only argument then was that Melo should have gotten rookie of the year or at least more consideration.

But, I also make threads about players projecting them all the time. I am usually right a lot more than I am wrong. Just like with Kyrie, it is no surprise to me. I have been watching Kyrie Irving play for the last 3 years up at St. Pats.

Kyrie is going to be a multiple time all star player. I just think he shots to much for my liking. I am being harsh on him but I am like that too young players. But, remember I have never once said he isn't all star player. The only question I have is will he ever be an all-nba player.
Well, you ended up being right on James, personality wise.

I will say about Kyrie... I expected a lot out of him and he has far exceeded my expectations. I never thought he would be this good this soon at this age with this little experience.

Hard to imagine that people were saying they felt bad for the Cavs for getting the No. 1 pick in a weak year.

Meticode

01-13-2012, 02:13 AM

There's something inside you, it's hard to explain. They're talkin' about you boy, but you're still the same.

04mzwach

01-13-2012, 02:13 AM

Rubio is the best player if you want a point gaurd who can set up players for the easiest shots they've taken all of their careers. He will sprinkle in a little scoring for himself just to keep things balanced. His defense is actually above average. He's very good at staying in front of his defender. Flopping will be a specialty of his and I can tell that already. :lol Honestly, I don't think I've seen many players that can run an offense as smoothly as Rubio does. He may be the best point gaurd I've seen in terms of running an offense based off of slick passes and setting guys up. Players find full confidence in their shots suddenly when Rubio passes it to them. This shows that he is putting it where they want the ball. I could tell the difference the 2nd or 3rd game we played. I hadn't seen any of our players shoot with confidence, but during that game Rubio hit them and they were shooting whether a defender was a little close or not and it was going in. It seems like many NBA players have a problem with him. He gets decked practically every game, like a cheap shot and the fans notice it too and boo. It's hard not to notice and I've never seen anything like it with other players. He has to get underneath players skin because they feel helpless once that pass is given to the right guy and they can't do anything else after that. People think he's mentally weak maybe? Well, he has been tested every game and only really had one below standard game.

IGOTGAME

01-13-2012, 02:16 AM

Well, you ended up being right on James, personality wise.

I will say about Kyrie... I expected a lot out of him and he has far exceeded my expectations. I never thought he would be this good this soon at this age with this little experience.

Hard to imagine that people were saying they felt bad for the Cavs for getting the No. 1 pick in a weak year.

true. he is gonna be really good. You guys are lucky they didn't get Derrick Williams because he needs a lot of work. I'll be rooting for Kyrie and Michael Gilchrist....always root for the Jersey guys.

Eric Cartman

01-13-2012, 02:18 AM

Kyrie is a potential franchise player, Rubio is a role player.

entropy35

01-13-2012, 02:22 AM

Kyrie is a potential franchise player, Rubio is a role player.
Please explain. Right now he is but so is Kyrie. Both are potential franchise players IMO.

roffie

01-13-2012, 03:07 AM

Kyrie is a potential franchise player, Rubio is a role player.

ur a joke if you honestly think rubio will end up being role player. clearly you don't watch basketball.

RedBlackAttack

01-13-2012, 04:07 AM

true. he is gonna be really good. You guys are lucky they didn't get Derrick Williams because he needs a lot of work. I'll be rooting for Kyrie and Michael Gilchrist....always root for the Jersey guys.
Interesting enough that you mention MKG... He is currently No. 1 on my list for this year's draft. He has pro potentially oozing out of him. He is an incredibly hard worker, too, which is a trait that should fit in with Scott's demanding coaching style.

A young core of Irving, MKG and Tristan would be fantastic... All very high character guys, too.

Euroleague

01-13-2012, 04:15 AM

Rubio is "legit" at leading his team to a 3-7 record.

Most overrated player in the history of basketball, with LeBrick being a close second.

Fiasco

01-13-2012, 04:20 AM

Whoever said MKG is going to be the best prospect out of next year's draft, we are totally friends from now on.

RedBlackAttack

01-13-2012, 05:44 AM

NBA.com No. 1 play of the night...

Kyrie Irving's nasty crossover, spin layup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_E1xtv7MxU

noob cake

01-13-2012, 05:53 AM

NBA.com No. 1 play of the night...

Kyrie Irving's nasty crossover, spin layup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_E1xtv7MxU

That is just filthy coming from a 19 year old :bowdown:

alenleomessi

01-13-2012, 06:02 AM

NBA.com

Should Ricky Rubio be an All-Star this season?

Yes
27203 - 52%
No
24880 - 48%

RedBlackAttack

01-13-2012, 06:04 AM

NBA.com

Should Ricky Rubio be an All-Star this season?

Yes
27203 - 52%
No
24880 - 48%
:facepalm

alenleomessi

01-13-2012, 06:09 AM

can u blame them? they got the ricky fever

24r2

01-13-2012, 06:26 AM

his looks alone would make him an allstar :confusedshrug:

mrhoopfan

01-13-2012, 07:01 AM

Cavs 10 games played : seven on the road

Wolves 10 games played: seven at home

Cavs record: 5-5

Wolves record: 3-7

Cavs vs Wolves: Cavs won on the road rather easily and Kyrie was the best player on the floor

Case closed, chump.

this:cheers: And lets not forget Kyrie is a year and a half younger without all the pro experience

hawkfan

01-13-2012, 07:13 AM

Irving - me first point guard.
Rubio - Nash/Kidd team first point guard.

Dwight Howard should seriously consider going up to Minnesota.

Floppy

01-13-2012, 07:54 AM

Kyrie has very nice offense but he has to be the worst defender in the league.

Who gets consistently beat by Nash without the help of a pick?

DukeDelonte13

01-13-2012, 11:02 AM

Kyrie has very nice offense but he has to be the worst defender in the league.

Who gets consistently beat by Nash without the help of a pick?

Kyrie has been playing mediocre D. I wouldn't call him great, but I wouldn't say he has been god awful

Pushxx

01-13-2012, 11:05 AM

DukeDelonte13

01-13-2012, 11:25 AM

Definitely Rubio. Higher bball IQ and a bit more team oriented.

Irving has more tools, but I don't see him turning into a top tier PG mostly because of defense.

I see Rubio as a consistent top 8 PG soon. He can be a much better team defender than Irving even if he's not as gifted athletically. Rubio's jumper will continue to develop, and he clearly has the discipline to run a contender smoothly.

I like how Rubio will continually get better and better but Irving apparently is playing terrible D, and his D will never improve. Watch Kyrie play before you spew your BS. Kyrie is leading his team to wins and rubio isn't.

calvin671996

01-13-2012, 11:37 AM

Irving no doubt.
becoz he is strength
Rubio is suck on defense

donald love

01-13-2012, 11:42 AM

Rubio the most hyped of piece of crap since Carlos Cruz.

TaLvsCuaL

01-13-2012, 11:47 AM

Those who say Rubio is bad on defense have not watched the kid play in their lives. :facepalm

Pushxx

01-13-2012, 12:01 PM

I like how Rubio will continually get better and better but Irving apparently is playing terrible D, and his D will never improve. Watch Kyrie play before you spew your BS. Kyrie is leading his team to wins and rubio isn't.

I didn't say it wasn't gonna get better. I just don't see him with the ability to become an above average defender, whereas Rubio has more defensive versatility available to him.

I think Kyrie is amazing. I just see more potential in Rubio, which is why I picked him. That's not BS. There is no wrong answer here. Just because you disagree with me doesn't mean I'm spewing BS.

Meticode

01-13-2012, 12:29 PM

Irving has really impressed me over the last few games. His two aboslutely horrible games came against Toronto so far 10 games in. For the month of January (7 games) here's what he's doing...

27.1 MPG
.511 FG%
.450 3P%
.955 FT%
3.1 RPG
0.4 SPG
0.7 BPG
4.9 APG
3.6 TPG
18.0 PPG

...that's pretty impressive for a 19 year old rookie for barely over 27 minutes per game. At this point the two weakest part of his game that's completely noticeable is his turn-overs and his defense coming off screens. It almsot seems like once he gets screened or picked he gives up on the play.

FireDavidKahn

01-13-2012, 01:55 PM

Irving no doubt.
becoz he is strength
Rubio is suck on defense
WHAT?

Our defensive rating is 10 points better with Rubio on the floor compared to when he is off. He is already a good defender.

FireDavidKahn

01-13-2012, 01:56 PM

Rubio the most hyped of piece of crap since Carlos Cruz.
And deservedly so.

GOBB

01-13-2012, 02:29 PM

DukeDelonte13

01-13-2012, 04:37 PM

I didn't say it wasn't gonna get better. I just don't see him with the ability to become an above average defender, whereas Rubio has more defensive versatility available to him.

I think Kyrie is amazing. I just see more potential in Rubio, which is why I picked him. That's not BS. There is no wrong answer here. Just because you disagree with me doesn't mean I'm spewing BS.

Eh, you speculate one way saying the sky's the limit for one, and the other guy is "nah, he'll be average defender at best" I guess I call it spewing BS. Especially when your rationale is that Ricky Rubio "has more defensive versatility". :confusedshrug:

I call it BS, others may call it speculation :oldlol: So yeah.. i guess it doesn't necessarily mean you are spewing BS.

But in all seriousness, both are in the next elite PG club. Nobody can deny that. :cheers:

SilkkTheShocker

01-13-2012, 04:40 PM

cavsfanatic

01-13-2012, 05:26 PM

Kyrie balled against Rubio and vice versa. He 21 n Kyrie 19 so both have great potential... Rubio plays with alot of scorers and Irving don't so he gotta score.

FireDavidKahn

01-13-2012, 05:27 PM

Irving is by far a better player. Who the hell does he have to pass to? He plays with arugably the worst wing players in the NBA. Alonzo Gee (although improved) is their best wing player. Not an ideal situation.
Have you seen Minnesota's wings?

And Irving is a far better player?:oldlol:

I can't tell if you are either a blind Irving homer or a Rubio hater. Rubio has been absolutely amazing so far for a rookie.

Seeing homers like this really irritates me, why can't people see that both players are special? Like someone said above me, both Rubio and Irving will be elite PGs in the future. Irving will be more of a scorer while Rubio will be the better shot creator.

swi7ch

01-13-2012, 05:29 PM

From what I've seen so far, Rubio. I was LOL'ing when ppl are saying he's going to be the next Kidd or Nash but the kid is scary good! Hope he stays healthy...

04mzwach

01-13-2012, 07:11 PM

Have you seen Minnesota's wings?

And Irving is a far better player?:oldlol:

I can't tell if you are either a blind Irving homer or a Rubio hater. Rubio has been absolutely amazing so far for a rookie.

Seeing homers like this really irritates me, why can't people see that both players are special? Like someone said above me, both Rubio and Irving will be elite PGs in the future. Irving will be more of a scorer while Rubio will be the better shot creator.
The guy is mad that Silkk The Shocker is a horrible rapper and he also hates pretty much everything Minnesota with a passion. His ISH track record is full of Minnesota trolling threads. I don't even respond to the guy. He's a waste of time. I'd ignore him, but it's not my style. I haven't ignored anybody since I got my ISH account. Just pretend he doesn't exist unless it gives you a laugh. It is funny sometimes...

chips93

01-13-2012, 07:20 PM

Have you seen Minnesota's wings?

beasley, wes johnson, barea >>> anthony parker, casspi, gee

04mzwach

01-13-2012, 07:24 PM

beasley, wes johnson, barea >>> anthony parker, casspi, gee
Beasley < Casspi or Parker or Gee
Wes Johnson < Casspi or Parker or Gee
Barea > Casspi or Parker or Gee

but really...Barea is a defense liability at 2 gaurd. You may think I'm lying about the comparisons, but you haven't seen the type of years these guys have been putting up. Wes Johnson is bricking everything! He has lost all confidence! Beasley is having the worst year of his career! We would be above .500 if these guys were playing like they should. Beasley has been injured by the way. I can't wait until Martell Webster comes back, he'll be money with Rubio...

lilgodfather1

01-13-2012, 07:28 PM

I can admit that 10 games into the year I have been wrong about Rubio, but he certainly doesn't have more potetial than Kyrie. He is 21, been playing pro for over half a decade. He was supposed to be polished coming into the NBA, the fact that he has no jumpshot to speak of at this point basically ensures he never will. I'm not saying it won't get better, but I don't think it will ever be as consistant as current Irving's is.

Irving is coming off of a limited college year, playing with very limited talent around him. Jamison is just terrible, and Varejao is not an offensive juggernaut. Gee is our best wing player. The fact that Kyrie averages so many assists is a damn miracle.

I think both will be great, but I think Irving's ceiling is Chris Paul, where as Rubio's is Rondo without the crazy D. Both great players in their ownright, but only one is a franchise player.

lilgodfather1

01-13-2012, 07:37 PM

Beasley < Casspi or Parker or Gee
Wes Johnson < Casspi or Parker or Gee
Barea > Casspi or Parker or Gee

but really...Barea is a defense liability at 2 gaurd. You may think I'm lying about the comparisons, but you haven't seen the type of years these guys have been putting up. Wes Johnson is bricking everything! He has lost all confidence! Beasley is having the worst year of his career! We would be above .500 if these guys were playing like they should. Beasley has been injured by the way. I can't wait until Martell Webster comes back, he'll be money with Rubio...
Casspi is putting up 6.3 ppg on 38%...
Parker is putting up 7.3 ppg on 39%...
Gee is putting up 8.3 ppg on 50%

Beasley is putting up 12.9 ppg on 39%
Johnson is putting up 4.3 ppg on 35%
Barea is putting up 11.4 on 40%

but clearly the Cavs wings are worse than Minni's.

6.3+7.3+8.3 = 21.9
12.9+4.3+11.4+28.6

Clearly the Cavs wings score less points than Minni's so it would be easier for Irving to get assists than it would be for Rubio.

FireDavidKahn

01-13-2012, 07:41 PM

FireDavidKahn

01-13-2012, 07:43 PM

Casspi is putting up 6.3 ppg on 38%...
Parker is putting up 7.3 ppg on 39%...
Gee is putting up 8.3 ppg on 50%

Beasley is putting up 12.9 ppg on 39%
Johnson is putting up 4.3 ppg on 35%
Barea is putting up 11.4 on 40%

but clearly the Cavs wings are worse than Minni's.

6.3+7.3+8.3 = 21.9
12.9+4.3+11.4+28.6

Clearly the Cavs wings score less points than Minni's so it would be easier for Irving to get assists than it would be for Rubio.
PPG doesn't mean anything. I haven't watched many Cavs games this year but Beasley has been beyond horrible. I mean he is playing at below a dleague level right now, as is Wesley. Our only good wing is Barea who is pretty decent but not a game changer. Malcolm Lee looks very promising, he is 6'5 and a very good defender but is injured right now.

Both the Cavs roster and Minny's really sucks aside from their "stars" in Irving, Love and Rubio.

Edit: Before anyone brings him up, Derrick Williams hasn't done a thing yet and is still learning to play the game. He isn't an impact player yet like Love or Rubio

chips93

01-13-2012, 07:45 PM

quick stat comparison

irving has the slight edge in true shooting percentage, with .557 to rubio's .550

per 36 min has the big predictable edge in scoring with 22.2 ppg to rubio's 12.7 ppg

the rebound rate is almost identical

rubio is fourth in the league in assist percentage (for those of you who dont know, this is the percentage of field goals made by your team that the player assisted on when he was on the court), and irving is a slightly surprising tenth

rubio has the highest assist percentage for a rookie in nba history at this point in the season, and irving is 7th. jason kidd is 35th. chris paul is 11th. pretty impressive for both guys.

irving is using a ton of possessions though. hes 8th in usage rate in the entire league, using more possessions per minute than guys like nowitzki, wade, and deron williams.

both guys are having very impressive rookie campaigns so far. rubio is passing more, and irving is scoring more, but the gap in passing isnt that big.

for what its worth, minnesota gives up 98.4 points per 100 possessions with rubio on the floor, and 108.9 points per possession with him off of the floor. thats a pretty big jump, so minnesota is a much better team defensively with rubio on the floor.

as a comparison, when irving is on the floor, the cavs give up 107.7 points per 100 possessions with irving on the floor, and 99.6 points per possession with him off of the floor, so that would indicate that irving hurts the cavs considerably defensively.

but i must emphasise, that these stats arent very accurate without a much bigger sample sixe. these numbers dont mean much until we have a lot more games played, but its worth keeping an eye on.

Meticode

01-13-2012, 07:45 PM

He needs to be more of a playmaker. Offense is good, but I want to see him set teammates up more
While I totally agree with this, it's hard to do that with Varejao, Jamison, Casspi and Parker starting. Varejao is great cutting to the basket. I've seen some nice passes to him from Irving, but it's hard to setup team-mates when there's absolutely no one who can create a shot for themselves other than Irving himself.

Meticode

01-13-2012, 07:49 PM

Have you seen Minnesota's wings?

And Irving is a far better player?:oldlol:

I can't tell if you are either a blind Irving homer or a Rubio hater. Rubio has been absolutely amazing so far for a rookie.

Seeing homers like this really irritates me, why can't people see that both players are special? Like someone said above me, both Rubio and Irving will be elite PGs in the future. Irving will be more of a scorer while Rubio will be the better shot creator.
Maybe he's not a homer? Maybe that's just how he feels. I don't agree or disagree with him, but maybe he feels Irving's situation is more harder to handle than Rubios?

FireDavidKahn

01-13-2012, 07:50 PM

While I totally agree with this, it's hard to do that with Varejao, Jamison, Casspi and Parker starting. Varejao is great cutting to the basket. I've seen some nice passes to him from Irving, but it's hard to setup team-mates when there's absolutely no one who can create a shot for themselves other than Irving himself.
Not to sound like a Rubio ballwasher, but that's what happens with Rubio as well. No one is capable of creating their own shot on this team unless you count an offensive board for a put back for a lay up as doing that. Williams has potential to but can't yet.

Over all though I'd agree that Minny's roster > Cav's.

I can't wait to see Irving develop. If Minny would of landed the 1st pick I would of wanted Rubio traded.:lol

FireDavidKahn

01-13-2012, 07:53 PM

Maybe he's not a homer? Maybe that's just how he feels. I don't agree or disagree with him, but maybe he feels Irving's situation is more harder to handle than Rubios?
Maybe, who knows?

I more had beef with the statement "Irving is a far better player than Rubio" when he isn't at all. They are very similar right now.

Meticode

01-13-2012, 07:56 PM

Not to sound like a Rubio ballwasher, but that's what happens with Rubio as well. No one is capable of creating their own shot on this team unless you count an offensive board for a put back for a lay up as doing that. Williams has potential to but can't yet.

Over all though I'd agree that Minny's roster > Cav's.

I can't wait to see Irving develop. If Minny would of landed the 1st pick I would of wanted Rubio traded.:lol
Well from my understanding Rubio isn't called on to score, which is why they're in two totally different situations. Minnesota has some guys in Williams, Love and Beasley who can score if you set them up right. Rubio has been great doing thsi. Anthony f*cking Tolliver has thrived in Minnesota getting open passes for jump-shots. Irving's situation is slightly different because the only capable scorer is garbage-shot Jamison if you set him up with the right passes.

A few games ago I was liking Rubio over Irving, but with what Irving has done the last few games he's regained my opinion of him playing better right now in his situation. It's interesting to compare them because they're sort-of opposites too each other. Irving is obviously a more gifted scorer and better a creating his own shot, Rubio has Nash-like offensive awareness and is awesome at passing.

Rojogaqu11

01-13-2012, 08:03 PM

I thought Rubio's defense was one of his strengths?

I only watched the game against the Bulls, and I think he did a fairly good job on the MVP.

Meticode

01-13-2012, 08:03 PM

Maybe, who knows?

I more had beef with the statement "Irving is a far better player than Rubio" when he isn't at all. They are very similar right now.
Well that's where I disagree on them being similar. I'm not saying Irving or Rubio is better than each other, but I feel they are very different types of players in very different circumstances.

Qwertyazerty

01-14-2012, 06:32 AM

I've been a rubio fan since his Juventud days. All the threads and news concerning Irving and Rubio pushed me to watch some Irving games... wow he is impressif. So talented in offense and only 19 years old?!?!?! Now I'm fan of both and hope they'll continue pregressing up to their potential. Both of them are great addition to the NBA and are clearly on top of this roockie class (not a bad one IMO)

Teanett

01-14-2012, 08:11 AM

they're both already better than jarrett jack (i like jarrett jack)

alenleomessi

01-14-2012, 08:48 AM

One thing is for sure, both players are already way ahead of everyone else in this class
And are Irving minutes going to increase or they are going to stay the same? Because Rubio already got 43 minutes yesterday and is the starter now.
Hopefully it will be a close ROY race

La Frescobaldi

01-14-2012, 10:49 AM

quick stat comparison

rubio is fourth in the league in assist percentage (for those of you who dont know, this is the percentage of field goals made by your team that the player assisted on when he was on the court), and irving is a slightly surprising tenth

rubio has the highest assist percentage for a rookie in nba history at this point in the season, and irving is 7th. jason kidd is 35th. chris paul is 11th. pretty impressive for both guys.

Very deceptive. Most rookies go to the worst teams, and their teammates can't finish no matter how great the pass is. Assists are a terrific stat but generally off by 1 or 2 per game average because the teammate bricked a wide open shot.

The opposite is also true. Magic Johnson = all time great no question, but his assist numbers are astronomically inflated because he was passing to one of the tallest guys in the history of the NBA - i.e., a big target - who had one of the greatest scoring moves in the history of the NBA - i.e., skyhook. Magic's numbers got lots of inflation.
Byron Scott & James Worthy were some of the greatest catch and shoot guys of the day: Magic's numbers got lots of inflation.
Using that fact of assists, are Rubio's finishers better than Irving's finishers?

irving is using a ton of possessions though. hes 8th in usage rate in the entire league, using more possessions per minute than guys like nowitzki, wade, and deron williams.

both guys are having very impressive rookie campaigns so far. rubio is passing more, and irving is scoring more, but the gap in passing isnt that big.

If Irving is having to shoot more because his teammates are lousy, then that's some more info. On the other hand, if Rubio is shooting less because his teammates can actually make a basket, then Irving's ppg means less.

for what its worth, minnesota gives up 98.4 points per 100 possessions with rubio on the floor, and 108.9 points per possession with him off of the floor. thats a pretty big jump, so minnesota is a much better team defensively with rubio on the floor.

as a comparison, when irving is on the floor, the cavs give up 107.7 points per 100 possessions with irving on the floor, and 99.6 points per possession with him off of the floor, so that would indicate that irving hurts the cavs considerably defensively.

but i must emphasise, that these stats arent very accurate without a much bigger sample sixe. these numbers dont mean much until we have a lot more games played, but its worth keeping an eye on.

This is a completely different factor, cannot be massaged or avoided really... Rubio is vastly better......... although, does Irving play in garbage time?

Great post, chips

chips93

01-14-2012, 11:26 AM

thanks

irving plays very little garbage time, scott seems determined not to give the rookies too much playing time, and i cant understand why. thompson should be getting a lot more playing time. although, when they are on the court, they both frequently get plays run for them, so thats a positive sign.

sodap

01-14-2012, 02:02 PM

I think both are all-star caliber players in the long run. but im a rubio homer at this point, as much as I like irving

Lebron23

01-14-2012, 02:03 PM

Kryrie Irving

FireDavidKahn

01-15-2012, 08:00 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFB_OBmB_dE&feature=player_embedded
:pimp:

The pass between Dirk's legs @ 2:30 is boss

RedBlackAttack

01-15-2012, 08:38 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFB_OBmB_dE&feature=player_embedded
:pimp:

The pass between Dirk's legs @ 2:30 is boss

Nice.

Kyrie mix...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8suMzxCbHCU

Still waiting for someone to put together a really great one. Lots of great plays left out of this. But, still impressive plays abound.

chips93

01-15-2012, 08:58 PM

maybe my favorite play of the year so far;

against the heat, in a semi-break, rubio has the ball on the right wing, randolph has a bit of space around the rim, the heat defenders are ball watching, rubio sees this, calls for a pick, this distracts the miami players some more, drawing them towards the pick and roll, giving randolph a little more space, and rubio immediately throws the alley-opp, for randolph to finish.

i spontaneously started clapping. couldnt help it.

@ 2;25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb4gIAotxpQ

nice play at 3:04 also.

some rookies look lost at the beginning of their careers. that play really showed how smart, and heady rubio is. i cant think of many other players in the whole league, smart enough to think to do this, or good enough to execute it. kidd, nash, cp3, thats probably it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFB_OBmB_dE&feature=player_embedded
:pimp:

The pass between Dirk's legs @ 2:30 is boss

:roll: @ 1:40, where ellington's eyes just light up when he realises that the ball is already coming towards him from rubio's around the back pass.

IGOTGAME

01-15-2012, 09:25 PM

maybe my favorite play of the year so far;

against the heat, in a semi-break, rubio has the ball on the right wing, randolph has a bit of space around the rim, the heat defenders are ball watching, rubio sees this, calls for a pick, this distracts the miami players some more, drawing them towards the pick and roll, giving randolph a little more space, and rubio immediately throws the alley-opp, for randolph to finish.

i spontaneously started clapping. couldnt help it.

@ 2;25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb4gIAotxpQ

nice play at 3:04 also.

some rookies look lost at the beginning of their careers. that play really showed how smart, and heady rubio is. i cant think of many other players in the whole league, smart enough to think to do this, or good enough to execute it. kidd, nash, cp3, thats probably it.

:roll: @ 1:40, where ellington's eyes just light up when he realises that the ball is already coming towards him from rubio's around the back pass.

my fav play of the year. points for the pick, then looks the defense away then throws an on target opp with one hand. Guy is a passing genius.

FireDavidKahn

01-17-2012, 11:52 AM

Kyrie Irving last night was awesome.

KevinNYC

01-17-2012, 02:02 PM

Nice.

Kyrie mix...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8suMzxCbHCU

Still waiting for someone to put together a really great one. Lots of great plays left out of this. But, still impressive plays abound.
Vicious, vicious spin move at 1:40

La Frescobaldi

01-17-2012, 02:55 PM

Vicious, vicious spin move at 1:40

that's pure Earl Monroe right there....... awesome!!

eliteballer

01-17-2012, 02:55 PM

Do you want Steve Nash or Chris Paul, as far as ceilings go

SilkkTheShocker

01-17-2012, 03:14 PM

Rose and CP3 are the only points that have a case for being better than Kyrie right now. Give Irving over anyone else at the PG spot.

blacknapalm

01-17-2012, 03:19 PM

rubio right now. irving down the line

noob cake

01-17-2012, 03:30 PM

Vicious, vicious spin move at 1:40

2:38 is better

Kiddlovesnets

01-17-2012, 03:36 PM

Do you want Steve Nash or Chris Paul, as far as ceilings go

Of course CP3, he was already better than Nash ever was in his third year in NBA(21ppg, 11apg).

Droid101

01-17-2012, 03:51 PM

Irving making a push.

It's all about who ends with a better record I think, at this point.

SilkkTheShocker

01-17-2012, 05:06 PM

Irving making a push.

It's all about who ends with a better record I think, at this point.

Push?

Irving is ahead of Rubio

chips93

01-17-2012, 08:06 PM

Rose and CP3 are the only points that have a case for being better than Kyrie right now. Give Irving over anyone else at the PG spot.

cp3, nash, rose are all definitely better point guards right now.

rondo, parker, deron williams, and lowry are all probably better than him too.

irving is still below average on defense, and cant create for others like all the elite point guards can.

JellyBean

01-17-2012, 08:18 PM

Rubio, of course.

PleezeBelieve

01-17-2012, 08:24 PM

cp3, nash, rose are all definitely better point guards right now.

rondo, parker, deron williams, and lowry are all probably better than him too.

irving is still below average on defense, and cant create for others like all the elite point guards can.
Kyrie can't create for others?

Shut up. Watch the game. He tries to create but he consistently plays with guys who can't finish.

Droid101

01-17-2012, 08:26 PM

Kyrie can't create for others?

Shut up. Watch the game. He tries to create but he consistently plays with guys who can't finish.
Huh? He plays with some pretty good offensive players (Antawn). However, he plays with a bunch of shit defensive players too (Antawn).

chips93

01-17-2012, 08:36 PM

ill put it like this

if rose/rondo/lowry/paul/nash/d-will were on this team instead of irving, they would be getting a lot more assists that irving is currently getting

Droid101

01-17-2012, 08:38 PM

ill put it like this

if rose/rondo/lowry/paul/nash/d-will were on this team instead of irving, they would be getting a lot more assists that irving is currently getting
Bingo.

PleezeBelieve

01-17-2012, 08:38 PM

Passing to who?

Keep sipping the kool aid. He averages 5.3 in 27 minutes a night.

DRose1899

01-17-2012, 08:40 PM

ill put it like this

if rose/rondo/lowry/paul/nash/d-will were on this team instead of irving, they would be getting a lot more assists that irving is currently getting
lowry will get a lot more assist? really?

blacknapalm

01-17-2012, 08:42 PM

hell, sessions would average 7+ assists on that team if he got 30+ minutes. he already averages 4.9 in less than 22 minutes :roll:

chips93

01-17-2012, 08:44 PM

Passing to who?

Keep sipping the kool aid. He averages 5.3 in 27 minutes a night.

assists per 48 mins

nash - 16
rondo - 13
lowry - 12
parker - 11
rose - 11
williams - 11
paul - 11
irving - 9

nash has just a bad offensive team around him as irving, possibly worse, yet averages almost twice as many assists per 48 mins. williams' crew isnt much better.

cp3 has put up 10 apg with much worse supporting casts, than the one irving currently has.

Droid101

01-17-2012, 08:46 PM

assists per 48 mins

nash - 16
rondo - 13
lowry - 12
parker - 11
rose - 11
williams - 11
paul - 11
irving - 9

nash has just a bad offensive team around him as irving, possibly worse, yet averages almost twice as many assists per 48 mins. williams' crew isnt much better.

cp3 has put up 10 apg with much worse supporting casts, than the one irving currently has.Actually, the Celtics are 17th in the league in offensive efficiency... so Rondo's assists are pretty impressive too.

Fatal9

01-17-2012, 08:49 PM

Rose is a better passer than Kyrie? Kyrie makes passes every game I just don't see Rose make.

And someone like Varejao blows an assist or two for him a game for sure. IMO he is playing the perfect mix of scoring/passing that is needed for HIS team. Do people really want to see him not put 20+ a game so he can defer to Jamison? The passing skills are there, and he's still a rookie learning to balance his game, adjusting to new teammates and NBA defenses (one thing I've noticed is he can make careless passes on the perimeter because he's probably not used to guys with NBA level quickness playing the passing lanes). Last couple of games I've seen at least, he's played some minutes with Sessions handling the ball instead of him too.

His assist numbers right now don't really state his passing/PG ability imo. And even then 7 apg as a rookie per 36 is really really good.

chips93

01-17-2012, 09:10 PM

Rose is a better passer than Kyrie? Kyrie makes passes every game I just don't see Rose make.

jennings can make passes that few other players in the league can make. that doesnt make him a good passer.

im not saying those guys are more skilled passers necessarily, but they are more willing. rose looks to run the offense, set guys up, more than irving.

And someone like Varejao blows an assist or two for him a game for sure.

andy also cuts off of the ball better than most center in the league, creating assist opportunities for irving. so you cant blame andy for irving's assist totals not being elite

His assist numbers right now don't really state his passing/PG ability imo. And even then 7 apg as a rookie per 36 is really really good.

im not questioning his ability to make passes, its his willingness, and his ability to run the offense, that is below those other guys i mentioned.

noob cake

01-17-2012, 09:12 PM

lowry will get a lot more assist? really?

More hater(s) aka blind Rose fan

Lowry's stat right now makes him a top 3 PG.

PleezeBelieve

01-17-2012, 09:13 PM

jennings can make passes that few other players in the league can make. that doesnt make him a good passer.

im not saying those guys are more skilled passers necessarily, but they are more willing. rose looks to run the offense, set guys up, more than irving.

andy also cuts off of the ball better than most center in the league, creating assist opportunities for irving. so you cant blame andy for irving's assist totals not being elite

im not questioning his ability to make passes, its his willingness, and his ability to run the offense, that is below those other guys i mentioned.
Man, shut up. You sound like an idiot. I'm convinced you don't watch the games. :oldlol:

chips93

01-17-2012, 09:17 PM

Man, shut up. You sound like an idiot. I'm convinced you don't watch the games. :oldlol:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5551324

GOBB

01-17-2012, 09:19 PM

chips93 knows what he is talkin about. I agree with most of what he has said.

IGOTGAME

11-05-2014, 11:41 PM

not saying Rubio is better. But, Kyrie is a not looking like a point guard.

Le Shaqtus

11-06-2014, 12:32 AM

not saying Rubio is better. But, Kyrie is a not looking like a point guard.

He isn't a point guard, that's why.

stalkerforlife

11-06-2014, 12:48 AM

Rubio.

Better defender, passer, and has more potential.

Kyrie is another chucking PG playing the wrong position.

Dray n Klay

10-11-2016, 04:29 PM

Hmmm.. depends

MrFonzworth

10-11-2016, 08:56 PM

Rubio. Simply has a better shot in crunch time.

Old Man River

10-11-2016, 10:48 PM

Rubio.. Irving should of stayed one more year in college.
:biggums:

Nastradamus

10-11-2016, 11:06 PM

They'd be a fun combo backcourt

blacknapalm

10-12-2016, 03:34 AM

They'd be a fun combo backcourt

never thought about that but they actually would. rubio would hold it down more defensively/passing wise. irving will the better scorer/shot creator off the ball. only prob is bigger shooting guards would post up irving. though they are some of the bigger PGs, a 6'3-6'4ish backcourt is pretty small, but hey, it mostly works for portland.

i'd take irving overall but it's way closer than some people will admit. it also depends on the type of team/system you have.

RedBlackAttack

10-12-2016, 02:52 PM

never thought about that but they actually would. rubio would hold it down more defensively/passing wise. irving will the better scorer/shot creator off the ball. only prob is bigger shooting guards would post up irving. though they are some of the bigger PGs, a 6'3-6'4ish backcourt is pretty small, but hey, it mostly works for portland.

i'd take irving overall but it's way closer than some people will admit. it also depends on the type of team/system you have.
They wouldn't start together. There was actually some talk during the offseason that the Cavs and TWolves were negotiating a trade involving Rubio. He would be used in a Delly role. Backup PG and a guy they could use in different lineups with Kyrie occasionally ... the same way they did Delly.

The problem is, Delly was a pretty damn good shooter. As good a passer as Rubio is, he is just a horrendous shooter and those guys usually don't fit all that well alongside LeBron and Kyrie.

I also don't think it is close. Kyrie just dominated Steph Curry on the biggest stage in basketball. People are so cautious about giving him any props that I'm consistently surprised.

Minnesota just drafted a point guard. I'm not putting Rubio down, but he is more than likely going to transition to a role player off the bench soon. You're comparing that to a guy who was All-NBA in his last healthy regular season and dominated these past playoffs.