Prime Kobe Bryant or Prime Lebron James

[PurpGold34]

Lets say Lebron's prime has already passed and it was in 07-10 or something like that. Who do you guys think was better?

[Rnbizzle]

Honestly? As an all around player.. Kobe has never been as good as Lebron. Only as a scorer Kobe has clearly been better, but that's it.

Inb4 Kobe fans to nuts. :lol

[bwink23]

LEBRON....stick him on Kobe's Lakers and he'd had 3 championships by now.

[Vienceslav]

Kobe according to the MVP puppets commercials. :lol

[Nash]

Lebron is in his prime right now.

[Rnbizzle]

Kobe according to the MVP puppets commercials. :lol
I thought Kobe had no defense? :confusedshrug: :lol

[PurpGold34]

Honestly? As an all around player.. Kobe has never been as good as Lebron. Only as a scorer Kobe has clearly been better, but that's it.

Inb4 Kobe fans to nuts. :lol
Yeah everyone already knows you are a die hard Lebron fan, your credible is out of the window.

[brahmabull117]

Lebron's always been a better rebounder, passer and defender



you can argue for kobe as a scorer and shooter but that's really about it

[Oositdwn]

Scoring ability - Kobe
Everything else - Lebron

[Yung D-Will]

I'd take Peak Lebron over Peak Kobe

I have no idea what's consider their respective primes

[Rnbizzle]

Yeah everyone already knows you are a die hard Lebron fan, your credible is out of the window.
Excuse me? I'm a Bulls fan, sorry bro. :cheers:

[Nash]

Oh, also, what a great and creative thread. Never seen anything like it before. Quality. Will give 20 stars.

[PurpGold34]

Excuse me? I'm a Bulls fan, sorry bro. :cheers:
Yeah and your favorite player is LeBron James, a player you are also a die hard fan of.

[Rnbizzle]

Yeah and your favorite player is LeBron James, a player you are also a die hard fan of.
Thanks for telling me, did not know that!

[Faptastrophe]

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo161/atp88/oh-look-its-this-thread-again.jpg

[PurpGold34]

Thanks for telling me, did not know that!
Yeah. Everyone knows you are secretly a Heat/Lebron fan in disguise. All I have to do is just look at the game threads and look at all the posts about you busting a nut as Lebron scores a point or something like that.

[bwink23]

Yeah everyone already knows you are a die hard Lebron fan, your credible is out of the window.


Coming from someone who's username is "PurpGold" that means ALOT.

[Legends66NBA7]

Coming from someone who's username is "PurpGold" that means ALOT.

You got baited.

[inclinerator]

hmm i thought the majority would be picking kobe

[Xyph]

Coming from someone who's username is "PurpGold" that means ALOT.

32dayz who devotes every single post to hating Kobe is a lot better?

[Whoah10115]

I'm new, so it's my first chance to respond.


Kobe is ahead of Lebron. He's a better shooter, a better scorer, a defender. If we're talkin Bron 2010 his defense isn't as good as it is now, and as good as it is at his best it's not as good as Kobe at his best.


Kobe is the better ball-handler and his ability to break down teams and make plays is better. At his best Kobe has as great a floor game as any SG who's ever played. But Lebron's floor game is more and he's more all-around, a better pure playmaker and better passer, better vision. Rebounding is probably in Lebron's favor, tho it's not by too much. But what Kobe could do at his best is simply ahead of Lebron. Unfortunately, Kobe gets in his own way a lot.


In fact, as far as individual seasons go, Kobe's best season is the 02-03 season, where he should have won the MVP.

[Nash]

Yeah and your favorite player is LeBron James, a player you are also a die hard fan of.
I love that you're calling everyone a die hard fan in every thread.

[PurpGold34]

I love that you're calling everyone a die hard fan in every thread.
I'm calling you and that other guy that because both of you pretend you are a fan of something else when you are really just a bandwagon Heat/Lebron fan. It is pathetic.

[Nash]

I'm calling you and that other guy that because both of you pretend you are a fan of something else when you are really just a bandwagon Heat/Lebron fan. It is pathetic.
I'm not pretending anything. I AM A FAN OF LEBRON. There.

[Rnbizzle]

I'm not pretending anything. I AM A FAN OF LEBRON. There.
And I, as a fan of the game we call basketball, love watching Lebron James play. But I am a Bulls fan first and foremost.

[pegasus]

I pick Kobe. He's won two rings as the clear first option in his prime. What did Lebron do in his prime, other than dominating in the regular season? His meltdowns in 2010 and 2011 playoffs are enough for me to take Kobe over him.

[Heavincent]

Kobe.

[FindingTim]

excluding all-around play, efficiency, MVP's, total dominance, athleticism, passing, and blocking shots, I'd say Kobe has the edge here.

[HurricaneKid]

Kobe had more meltdowns during his "prime" than LeBron did.

I lean towards LBJ. HIs advanced stats are out of this world. He has led the NBA in WS and PER the past 4 years. Kobe has never finished in the top 2 in the NBA in either. If you look at the numbers during LeBron's biggest failures (being a 1 seed and losing before the Finals and "quitting" against Boston), Kobe has gone up against those exact teams and been a lesser player in both settings. In Orl series Kobe won his sole "undisputed" Finals MVP and was a fraction of the player LBJ was the previous week.

I cannot explain away or defend some of the postseason failures of LBJ though. So that alone brings it back from not close to really close. You really can't go wrong with either, though I think LeBron's efficiency does carry the day.

[quick96]

Coming from someone who's username is "PurpGold" that means ALOT.

Coming from a bum who stalks Kobe vids on Youtube. Trying to belittle the

G.O.A.T.

I bet you have butt naked posters of LeHype "no rings" James on your bedroom

wall, right next to Michael "90's cupcake" Jordan naked pics.

FREAKING PATHETIC!!!

bwink = LeHypes *** dispenser

[alwaysunny]

excluding all-around play, efficiency, MVP's, total dominance, athleticism, passing, and blocking shots, I'd say Kobe has the edge here.

Excluding jump shots, perimeter plays, clutchness, footwork, work ethic, slam dunk contest award, rape, and marriage skills, I'd say Lebron has the edge here.

[Simple Jack]

I pick Kobe. He's won two rings as the clear first option in his prime. What did Lebron do in his prime, other than dominating in the regular season? His meltdowns in 2010 and 2011 playoffs are enough for me to take Kobe over him.

There's been plenty of players who were the best in the league for a given year and didn't win a ring. Some of the best players to ever play the game, didn't win a ring during select years of their peak/prime. But again, there's no stopping people from using solely team accomplishments when ranking individual players; especially when the quality of their respective teams has been so far off. The years they were close, Kobe was refusing to shoot a FG in the 2nd half of a game 7. Is that enough of a reason to take _____ over Kobe?

[knightfall88]

look at all the Lebron fans making up silly categories to justify Lebron.

Kobe is better on offense.
Kobe is better on defense.

There is no more to discuss.

[Xyph]

Kobe easily.

[FindingTim]

when 'slam dunk contest award' counts as an advantage, you know you're reaching.

Also, if you give Kobe credit for "clutchness" (I'm assuming you mean game-winning shots) we also have to account for other clutch factors, like say, game 7's, or finals performances in general. But that hurts both players cases.

I think Kobe's biggest advantage is his will. I've seen his desire to win literally carry his team to victory (often despite shooting heroic fadeaway threes in the corner with 18 seconds left on the shot clock).

Sure, Kobe's footwork is far superior, but I'd say that for every point Kobe scores because of elite footwork, Lebron scores four points because of elite athleticism. They each can drop ya around 30 a game, but Lebron's game is far more efficient, and far more unselfish.

You want to talk about impact? In Kobe's prime he set tons of scoring records while surrounded by a bunch of scrubs. But his team never went anywhere.
Prior to Lebron's prime he posted amazing stats while surrounded by a bunch of scrubs. His team reached the NBA finals.

You might think Kobe's teammates were much worse, but for every Smush Parker there is an Ira Newble, for every Chucky Atkins there is a Daniel Gibson, and for every Stanislav Medvedenko there is a Damon Jones.

Kobe has the rings and the looks and the fame and the glory, but Lebron has the better prime.

[HurricaneKid]

excluding all-around play, efficiency, MVP's, athleticism, passing, and blocking shots, I'd say Kobe has the edge here.

I have no problem with someone saying Kobe. Postseason successes aren't close. But I find these curious. Efficency? Seriously? Kobe's eGF hasn't been within 100 points of LBJ's during peak years. PER, WS? Kobe has never finished in the top 2 in the NBA in either. LBJ is leading for the 5th straight year, something only Wilt, Jordan and Kareem did before him. LBJ jas avg ~50% higher on assts and blocks than Kobe.

Again, there are plenty of reasons to pick Kobe. These just aren't them.

[bizil]

Lebron is the better all around player. His combo of size, skill, versatility, and athletic ability has never been seen before. But even with that, give me prime Kobe. Kobe has one of the most complete all around guys ever for a perimeter player as well. I just think Bron as more of an instinct for the passing playmaking aspects, even though Kobe is great at that too. Bron can defend more positions than Kobe, but as of now Bron's on ball D isn't on prime Kobe's level. And once again prime Kobe was very versatile on D and able to D up PG, SG, and SF. On offense Kobe can also run PG, SG, and SF.

But the big gap occurs with the alpha dog killer instinct aspect. And it's what tilts the prime Kobe over prime Lebron. Bron is a great scorer but he's a notch below Kobe, Melo, Dirk, Durant, and Wade in terms of killer instinct. Even a guy like Magic, who Bron tends to be compared somewhat often, showed a clear edge on Bron when it came to willing a team and being a killer.

Bron has had his moments and I would rather have him for my team over Dirk, Durant, and Melo. But when it comes to great scorers who are also great all around players like MJ, Bird, Wade, and Kobe, many would take them over Bron. Lebron is a great scorer and great all around player, but the killer instinct aspect isn't on the level it needs to be consistently.

[tpols]

I have no problem with someone saying Kobe. Postseason successes aren't close. But I find these curious. Efficency? Seriously? Kobe's eGF hasn't been within 100 points of LBJ's during peak years. PER, WS? Kobe has never finished in the top 2 in the NBA in either. LBJ is leading for the 5th straight year, something only Wilt, Jordan and Kareem did before him. LBJ jas avg ~50% higher on assts and blocks than Kobe.

Again, there are plenty of reasons to pick Kobe. These just aren't them.
He said excluding.. meaning the opposite.

And I'd pick Kobe. Better lockdown defender in his prime.. much better half court player.. shooting, off the ball movements, in and out passing, infinitely more skilled.. one of most dominant scorers of all time.. never shrinks due to fear.. not as good a rebounder or passer as Bron but one of best, if not the best at his position every year.

[FindingTim]

I have no problem with someone saying Kobe. Postseason successes aren't close. But I find these curious. Efficency? Seriously? Kobe's eGF hasn't been within 100 points of LBJ's during peak years. PER, WS? Kobe has never finished in the top 2 in the NBA in either. LBJ is leading for the 5th straight year, something only Wilt, Jordan and Kareem did before him. LBJ jas avg ~50% higher on assts and blocks than Kobe.

Again, there are plenty of reasons to pick Kobe. These just aren't them.

thanks man, you further proved my point :cheers:
you're like the Fedex guy who has no idea he is an amazing drug dealer.

[Dictator]

Kobe. Better at winning. Lebron racks up stats but they don't affect the game as much as Kobe's does.

[TonyJones]

Lebron is in his prime right now.

THIS

I think in terms of individual production, this year and next year will be the greatest years of his career.

[bwink23]

Coming from a bum who stalks Kobe vids on Youtube. Trying to belittle the

G.O.A.T.

I bet you have butt naked posters of LeHype "no rings" James on your bedroom

wall, right next to Michael "90's cupcake" Jordan naked pics.

FREAKING PATHETIC!!!

bwink = LeHypes *** dispenser



U MAD??? :pimp:

[StateOfMind12]

The biggest problem with LeBron is that he doesn't really have a defined role. With Kobe you and him both know his role and that is to be the go-to scorer of the team. I don't know what Lebron's role is and neither does he. I think that is why he had such a hard time fitting in with Wade last season. If I had to take a guess, his role is to accumulate as much stats as possible, i.e. the stat accumulator.

Lebron has the ability to do a lot of things and be great a lot of things, similar to Wilt to a lesser extent.

Wilt had the ability to do a lot of things and be the best a it while I am not sure if Lebron was ever the best at any category.

LeBron was never the best scorer, never the best defender, and he was never the best passer or playmaker in the league. I have actually always thought that Lebron's passing/playmaking skills were incredibly overrated.

Kobe on the other hand was clearly the most dominant and best scorer in the league. That is and always was Kobe's defined role ever since Shaq left.

While it is nice to have a player that can practically do it all, it also hurts because especially when Lebron doesn't know when to change or switch roles throughout games, throughout a playoff series, or throughout the season.

That's the difference between Kobe and Lebron to me. Kobe also has great all-around skills although I am not sure if they are greater than Lebron's, but Kobe knows what his role is and when to change and switch roles. Lebron on the other hand does not know this which is why he tends to struggle in unusual periods of time.

[Lucifer]

All around player-Lebron

Scorer, intangibles/leadership, in the clutch, when it matters MOST/to propel your team to victory which is what basketball is about at the end of the day--> Lord Mamba.

[alwaysunny]

when 'slam dunk contest award' counts as an advantage, you know you're reaching.

Also, if you give Kobe credit for "clutchness" (I'm assuming you mean game-winning shots) we also have to account for other clutch factors, like say, game 7's, or finals performances in general. But that hurts both players cases.

I think Kobe's biggest advantage is his will. I've seen his desire to win literally carry his team to victory (often despite shooting heroic fadeaway threes in the corner with 18 seconds left on the shot clock).

Sure, Kobe's footwork is far superior, but I'd say that for every point Kobe scores because of elite footwork, Lebron scores four points because of elite athleticism. They each can drop ya around 30 a game, but Lebron's game is far more efficient, and far more unselfish.

You want to talk about impact? In Kobe's prime he set tons of scoring records while surrounded by a bunch of scrubs. But his team never went anywhere.
Prior to Lebron's prime he posted amazing stats while surrounded by a bunch of scrubs. His team reached the NBA finals.

You might think Kobe's teammates were much worse, but for every Smush Parker there is an Ira Newble, for every Chucky Atkins there is a Daniel Gibson, and for every Stanislav Medvedenko there is a Damon Jones.

Kobe has the rings and the looks and the fame and the glory, but Lebron has the better prime.

Oh you were being sarcastic on your previous post. I thought you were serious when you actually excluded all those important factors. I mistakenly mocked your post based on that.

[FindingTim]

Oh you were being sarcastic on your previous post. I thought you were serious when you actually excluded all those important factors. I mistakenly mocked your post based on that.

fair enough.
now that I can take a step back, I think it's pretty close (hence all these different opinions). I appreciate the greatness of Kobe, but I'm sticking with Lebron.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I'd take Peak Lebron over Peak Kobe

I have no idea what's consider their respective primes

I'd probably agree with peak Lebron simply because in Lebron's peak season, the main thing holding him back in other years(playoffs and mentality) weren't an issue because he was a beast in the '09 playoffs. I guess you could point to game 6 vs Orlando, but considering he had put his team on his back and given them a chance to compete in that series, I don't think that's entirely fair. And making them a historically dominant regular season team is also amazing.

But based on how Lebron has looked to start this season, maybe he's just reaching his peak. I didn't think he'd top '09, but I may have been wrong.

But this is tough because you could argue that Kobe's superior ability off the ball makes him a better fit on talented teams, while Lebron is better at carrying average talent to contender level, but if that is the case(and that's up for debate), then I'd take the guy who can fit better with talented casts because you need talent around you to win a title.

As far as primes? Well, I'd say '03-'09 was Kobe's prime, or maybe '01-'10.

Lebron is in his prime right now, when it started is up for debate, maybe '09 because that's when he really improved his shooting after two erratic shooting seasons in '07 and '08. His defense also improved that year, though I'd already say he was an above average defender by '08 and no worse than average by '07.

You could also argue his prime started in the '08 season or even as early as '06.

Either way, for full primes, so far, I have to take Kobe so far because his mental toughness isn't a question for me in the playoffs. He's had his bad series, as anyone does who plays that many, but he's also won and had many phenomenal series. That would obviously be my choice considering I have Kobe firmly in my top 10 list and Lebron isn't there.

As far as their ability as a player? Well, Kobe was the better scorer and more well rounded offensively due to his off the ball ability, mid-range game and post game.

Lebron is the better passer, though. Rebounding isn't an issue to me, Kobe plays guard and peaked at 7 rpg himself, and honestly, Lebron's rebounding numbers make him look like a better rebounder than he is, he does seem to get more of them on rebounds others would just easily get compared to other players.

Defense makes this tough, Kobe during his defensive prime was better, imo. Definitely a better man to man defender, but his best defensive season was in 2000 before his prime, and he wasn't as consistent after the 3peat, the one season when he was close, imo was '08 as far as consistency. He did have the ability for years to be an elite defender when he wanted to, but we all know that especially during his high scoring years that this wasn't a night to night thing.

But the most fair comparison for prime would be '09-'11 for Lebron vs '06-'08 for Kobe, not that those years were(or will be in Lebron's case) their only prime years, but because Lebron is currently in his prime, it's a lot easier to compare than Lebron's much shorter prime vs Kobe's complete prime.

But to repeat this and end all of this rambling, I'll go with Lebron's peak and Kobe's prime(so far)

[andgar923]

Honestly? As an all around player.. Kobe has never been as good as Lebron. Only as a scorer Kobe has clearly been better, but that's it.

Inb4 Kobe fans to nuts. :lol


Clearly this.

Kobe is only a better scorer, that's it.

[dajadeed]

excluding all-around play, efficiency, MVP's, total dominance, athleticism, passing, and blocking shots, I'd say Kobe has the edge here.

Kobe's rings back you up.

[dajadeed]

Simply put, if Lebron and Kobe were both 19 years old coming into the league today, there is not a single GM who wouldn't pick Kobe Bryant.

Intangibles go to him, attitude, work ethic, and just in case you guys are going to keep acting like you don't know, game also goes to him. Kobe Bryant has no weakness offensively. None. Zero. He has things Lebron can only dream of.

Go back and watch Kobe at 24 and 25. His mid-range game was SICK. Lebron has none of that.

Also, younger Kobe was a beast defensively.

I swear, people on this forum need to go back and remind themselves exactly how good Kobe was.

[Whoah10115]

I like the point about Lebron being able to carry average talent and elevate their games better than Kobe, but Kobe (at least based on right now) is better at taking his team to the next level and winning. He's done that.

[Mr Clutch Melo]

Lebron

[DMAVS41]

Simply put, if Lebron and Kobe were both 19 years old coming into the league today, there is not a single GM who wouldn't pick Kobe Bryant.

Intangibles go to him, attitude, work ethic, and just in case you guys are going to keep acting like you don't know, game also goes to him. Kobe Bryant has no weakness offensively. None. Zero. He has things Lebron can only dream of.

Go back and watch Kobe at 24 and 25. His mid-range game was SICK. Lebron has none of that.

Also, younger Kobe was a beast defensively.

I swear, people on this forum need to go back and remind themselves exactly how good Kobe was.

This is simply not true and just merely a guess on your part....

Lebron came into the league and by his 2nd year was already a franchise player. Kobe took until around year 5 to reach that level.

You should go back and look at the different circumstances each player was drafted into. These players don't play in a vacuum. The situation impacts the player.

[Xyph]

Lol easily Kobe.

[andgar923]

Simply put, if Lebron and Kobe were both 19 years old coming into the league today, there is not a single GM who wouldn't pick Kobe Bryant.

Intangibles go to him, attitude, work ethic, and just in case you guys are going to keep acting like you don't know, game also goes to him. Kobe Bryant has no weakness offensively. None. Zero. He has things Lebron can only dream of.

Go back and watch Kobe at 24 and 25. His mid-range game was SICK. Lebron has none of that.

Also, younger Kobe was a beast defensively.

I swear, people on this forum need to go back and remind themselves exactly how good Kobe was.
:roll:

[HurricaneKid]

Wilt had the ability to do a lot of things and be the best a it while I am not sure if Lebron was ever the best at any category.

LeBron was never the best scorer, never the best defender, and he was never the best passer or playmaker in the league. I have actually always thought that Lebron's passing/playmaking skills were incredibly overrated.

Kobe on the other hand was clearly the most dominant and best scorer in the league. That is and always was Kobe's defined role ever since Shaq left.



LeBron over the past 5 years in PPG rankings

1st
2nd
2nd
2nd
Currently 1st.

If he finishes in 1st it will be a better 5 yr stretch than any Kobe had as far as scoring rankings.

[L8k3r5]

Prime Kobe any day

[Xyph]

LeBron over the past 5 years in PPG rankings

1st
2nd
2nd
2nd
Currently 1st.

If he finishes in 1st it will be a better 5 yr stretch than any Kobe had as far as scoring rankings.

81 pts
35 ppg

:applause:

[Not No Talker]

My avatar's son

[arifgokcen]

First of all i love both of those guys.However i think this year and the next two will be lebron's absolute prime.

Defensively because of his athletic ability and size and reach i am gonna go with lebron(not that kobe was bad defender he was a fantastic defender).

Offensively kobe was better scorer in his prime however his poor shot selection makes him less efficient.However we are gonna have to wait to see lebron this year,because he actually became one of the best midrange shooters in the game (which sound weird considering his midrange game was the worst part of his offensive arsenal when he came in to the league).

Intangibles,kobe's mentality however is very strong,we haven't seen lebron show that.

Passing Court Vision,This is undebatable,lebron by far the better distributer and makes everyone around him look much better than they are.JJ Hickson,mo williams,varejao et.Kobe in his prime has never done that.

I think i am gonna go with lebron here.I wanna make this clear again this is strictly based on their performances not their accomplishments.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Lebron by a mile. Kobe is arguably the most overrated player of all time.

[arifgokcen]

Simply put, if Lebron and Kobe were both 19 years old coming into the league today, there is not a single GM who wouldn't pick Kobe Bryant.

Intangibles go to him, attitude, work ethic, and just in case you guys are going to keep acting like you don't know, game also goes to him. Kobe Bryant has no weakness offensively. None. Zero. He has things Lebron can only dream of.

Go back and watch Kobe at 24 and 25. His mid-range game was SICK. Lebron has none of that.

Also, younger Kobe was a beast defensively.

I swear, people on this forum need to go back and remind themselves exactly how good Kobe was.

Mate we are comparing their primes you know what that means right,lebron has entered his prime this year,generally around 27-28 ages here athletes peak.BTW i wonder whats wrong with lebrons work ethic every year during summer he worked and added something to his game and you dont become so good unless you work harder than everyone else.So you cant say work ethic because they are both very hard workers.Since their knowledge skill and athleticism meet at this age.BTW lebron's midrange game is absolutely fantastic you should watch him.Kobe was a beast defensively no one is denying that.However lebron's production level simply put him above kobe(intangibles as i stated in my previous post goes to kobe).We are not comparing them career wise please pay attention.

[L8k3r5]

Lebron by a mile. Kobe is aruguably the most overrated player of all time.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
You got jokes

[HurricaneKid]

Simply put, if Lebron and Kobe were both 19 years old coming into the league today, there is not a single GM who wouldn't pick Kobe Bryant.

Intangibles go to him, attitude, work ethic, and just in case you guys are going to keep acting like you don't know, game also goes to him. Kobe Bryant has no weakness offensively. None. Zero. He has things Lebron can only dream of.

Go back and watch Kobe at 24 and 25. His mid-range game was SICK. Lebron has none of that.

Also, younger Kobe was a beast defensively.

I swear, people on this forum need to go back and remind themselves exactly how good Kobe was.

This is funny. When they were both 18+ LeBron was the most sought after draft pick since Ewing and Kobe was taken 13th.

And then your post went down hill.

[dajadeed]

This is simply not true and just merely a guess on your part....

Lebron came into the league and by his 2nd year was already a franchise player. Kobe took until around year 5 to reach that level.

You should go back and look at the different circumstances each player was drafted into. These players don't play in a vacuum. The situation impacts the player.

Kobe came in behind an all-star in Eddie Jones and played so well that the Lakers soon traded Eddie, who was by far the fan favorite back then.

Kobe at 21 was leading the Lakers in scoring, rebounding, assists, and blocks in game 7 against the Blazers. All while playing unbelievable D.

Dude started the all-star game and he didn't even start for the Lakers. That's how good young Kobe was.

When Eddie Jones got hurt and Kobe got his first ever start, Jerry West was quoted as saying the biggest problem Eddie's injury posed was that now the Lakers couldn't put Kobe back on the bench. :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

i think people are looking at kobe now and forgot how he played when he was younger

not only did kobe have a deadly move set and shot making ability... but he drove to the basket and finished almost as well and often as lebron does

then you factor in his mental toughness and ability to take over games like wade is now...

and when he was prime his defense was actually a legit 1st team all nba level.



kobes prime is basically a mix of prime jason kidd defense.. prime lebron slashing... prime wade clutch and prime jordan shooting all in one ( and he hit threes )


people who say theyed rather take lebron are obviously brainwashed by kobes slowed down 16th year version ( which is still one of the best players in this league even with half his effectiveness left )

[dajadeed]

This is funny. When they were both 18+ LeBron was the most sought after draft pick since Ewing and Kobe was taken 13th.

And then your post went down hill.

Meh, that's simply because no guard had ever come out of high school before.


Go back and read about him working out with the 76ers as a senior in high school. He was killing everyone. People just didn't want to gamble on a guard that young back then.

Don't discredit other gms, give credit to Jerry West. He watched 10 minutes of Kobe working out and walked out saying it was the best workout he had EVER seen.

And this is about prime, and prime Kobe wins. Period. Not against Lebron per say, but rings. I'll take the proven leader and someone who has proven that if you give him talent, he gives you rings. Period, end of story.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Kobe just doesn't make his teammates better. Lebron carried the worst supporting cast ever to the Finals. Kobe missed the playoffs playing with Caron Butler and Lamar Odom

[DMAVS41]

Kobe came in behind an all-star in Eddie Jones and played so well that the Lakers soon traded Eddie, who was by far the fan favorite back then.

Kobe at 21 was leading the Lakers in scoring, rebounding, assists, and blocks in game 7 against the Blazers. All while playing unbelievable D.

Dude started the all-star game and he didn't even start for the Lakers. That's how good young Kobe was.

When Eddie Jones got hurt and Kobe got his first ever start, Jerry West was quoted as saying the biggest problem Eddie's injury posed was that now the Lakers couldn't put Kobe back on the bench. :oldlol:

Kobe was simply not an elite player in the league until his 4th year at the earliest. He really became a franchise player in year 5 though....you should educate yourself on his early years.

Its not like Kobe wasn't good after his 2nd year, he just wasn't in that class that Lebron was when Lebron hit his 2nd year. Like I said, Lebron became elite in his 2nd year. It took Kobe until year 5 to do that. Just the facts dude.

So you have to factor that in when drafting them. A team built around a 2nd year Lebron has a much better chance to win a title than a 2nd year Kobe team does. And that stays consistent for years 1 through 4....then in year 5 it becomes a legit question.

Just so you know...Lebron put up 27/7/7 on 47% shooting in his 2nd year while Kobe put up 15/3/3 on 43% shooting. Just no comparison. Lebron was much better as a rookie as well.

[HurricaneKid]

81 pts
35 ppg

:applause:

Great. A meaningless Feb game against the Raptors is your response. Congrats.

35ppg. He shot 370 times more than anyone else in the league. He averaged 4 more ppg than LBJ that year while shooting 4.1 more FGS/game. He also avg a career low 4.5 asst to LBJs 6.6. Lebron also averaged 7 reb. And it was definitively before LBJs prime. So Kobe's best year when he intentionally lost game 7 was STILL inferior to LeBron's prepeak season.

I think Kobe's best year was 03 when Shaq was hurt and he carried that team and was a more well rounded player.

[dajadeed]

Kobe was simply not an elite player in the league until his 4th year at the earliest. He really became a franchise player in year 5 though....you should educate yourself on his early years.

Its not like Kobe wasn't good after his 2nd year, he just wasn't in that class that Lebron was when Lebron hit his 2nd year. Like I said, Lebron became elite in his 2nd year. It took Kobe until year 5 to do that. Just the facts dude.

So you have to factor that in when drafting them. A team built around a 2nd year Lebron has a much better chance to win a title than a 2nd year Kobe team does. And that stays consistent for years 1 through 4....then in year 5 it becomes a legit question.

Just so you know...Lebron put up 27/7/7 on 47% shooting in his 2nd year while Kobe put up 15/3/3 on 43% shooting. Just no comparison. Lebron was much better as a rookie as well.

Lebron was a better rookie, but Lebron got his own team right off the bat.

Kobe was traded for by a team that had title aspirations. He had a ****ing all-star playing his position in a VERY deep team.

They had totally different situations coming into the league. Kobe made the most of his, Lebron didn't.

There's no way in hell Kobe leads a team to two consecutive 60 win seasons and flames out in the playoffs.

[DMAVS41]

Lebron was a better rookie, but Lebron got his own team right off the bat.

Kobe was traded for by a team that had title aspirations. He had a ****ing all-star playing his position in a VERY deep team.

They had totally different situations coming into the league. Kobe made the most of his, Lebron didn't.

There's no way in hell Kobe leads a team to two consecutive 60 win seasons and flames out in the playoffs.


The idea that Kobe is winning 60 plus with those rosters on the Cavs is laughable....as is the notion he's winning a title. Wow....

[arifgokcen]

i think people are looking at kobe now and forgot how he played when he was younger

not only did kobe have a deadly move set and shot making ability... but he drove to the basket and finished almost as well and often as lebron does

then you factor in his mental toughness and ability to take over games like wade is now...

and when he was prime his defense was actually a legit 1st team all nba level.



kobes prime is basically a mix of prime jason kidd defense.. prime lebron slashing... prime wade clutch and prime kobe shooting all in one


people who say theyed rather take lebron are obviously brainwashed by kobes slowed down 16th year version ( which is still one of the best players in this league even with half his effectiveness left )

First of all try to look at things objectively .

1-Everyone remembers at least people who are older than 22-23 how good kobe was.

2-Kobe's arsenal is actually better than jordan's.However he has horrible shot selection.Right now you notice lebron's midrange is around 55% and last year he was again around 46% which makes him third in the league.His offensive arsenal is nowhere near kobe however he quietly became one of the best midrange shooters in the game and much efficient because of his shot selection

3-Mental toughness,this is of course goes to kobe,however dont underestimate lebron he led the league in 4th quarter scoring for 4 years.He led his scrub team to nba finals,and posted best postseason production among players who didnt go to finals during 2008-2009 season.

4-So you are saying lebron's is not legit 1st defender.Because i havent seen any player that can shut down rose as well as lebron did.He constantly defends the best player during 4th quarters.Again lebron's is llegit 1st too

5-Kobe finishing ability was never as good as lebron because of his size and strength lebron constantly ranked among the best around basket.Actually for the last 7-8 years he was 1-2 around the basket.BTW last paragraph you said doesnt even make sense.Compare the two among the two

[dajadeed]

The idea that Kobe is winning 60 plus with those rosters on the Cavs is laughable....as is the notion he's winning a title. Wow....

Yeah, because Smush, Luke, Kwame, Brian Cook, Chris Mihm, and Devean George are a great ****ing supporting cast :oldlol:

Fwiw, you don't win 60 games with a shitty team. It's just simple logic. If your team is good enough to win 60 games in the regular season, you can't turn around and say it was a shitty team when you flame out. Sorry, but that's the mentality of ****ing losers.

Again, this is very simple. Prime Kobe wins championships. Plural. Proven fact.

Prime Lebron? He's still looking for ring number 1.

I'll take the proven winner, as will anyone who wants to win.

[arifgokcen]

Yeah, because Smush, Luke, Kwame, Brian Cook, Chris Mihm, and Devean George are a great ****ing supporting cast :oldlol:

Fwiw, you don't win 60 games with a shitty team. It's just simple logic. If your team is good enough to win 60 games in the regular season, you can't turn around and say it was a shitty team when you flame out. Sorry, but that's the mentality of ****ing losers.

Again, this is very simple. Prime Kobe wins championships. Plural. Proven fact.

Prime Lebron? He's still looking for ring number 1.

I'll take the proven winner, as will anyone who wants to win.

Are you blind we are not comparing their accomplishments,just look at their primes
BTW lebron 2007 finals roster sasha pavlovic drew gooden ilgauskas and larry hughes.

[Heavincent]

Lebron by a mile. Kobe is arguably the most overrated player of all time.

:oldlol:

[dajadeed]

Are you blind we are not comparing their accomplishments,just look at their primes
BTW lebron 2007 finals roster sasha pavlovic drew gooden ilgauskas and larry hughes.

Like I already said, I'll take that guy who in his prime had no weakness offensively and played 1st team NBA defense.

[HurricaneKid]

i think people are looking at kobe now and forgot how he played when he was younger

not only did kobe have a deadly move set and shot making ability... but he drove to the basket and finished almost as well and often as lebron does

then you factor in his mental toughness and ability to take over games like wade is now...

and when he was prime his defense was actually a legit 1st team all nba level.



kobes prime is basically a mix of prime jason kidd defense.. prime lebron slashing... prime wade clutch and prime jordan shooting all in one ( and he hit threes )


people who say theyed rather take lebron are obviously brainwashed by kobes slowed down 16th year version ( which is still one of the best players in this league even with half his effectiveness left )

Kobe is currently leading the league in FGA, shooting a dismal 40%, and is avg more TOs than anyone has had per game in my lifetime. Yet he is still one of the best players in the league? And we are the ones brainwashed?

Kobe has had great success in the playoffs. I give him all the credit in the world for that. He was placed in position to win and he won.

If you want to see the best player of your generation watch the end of the Piston playoff game. Watch the whole Orl series in 09. Its not just scoring. he dominated the boards, all but scored for his teammates.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It's tough because of Lebron's meltdown vs Boston and Dallas. Absolutely terrible. Big character issue with him. At the same time, Kobe blatantly quit on his team in 2006, pouted for a trade in 2007, and had a bad Finals in 2008 and 2010 (by his standards).

I may go with Lebron because of his selflessness. Considering the guy is still in his prime, lets see what he's about if the Heat make the Finals again.

[Heavincent]

I may go with Lebron because of his selflessness. Considering the guy is still in his prime, lets see what he does if the Heat make the Finals again.

Kobe was not bad in the 2010 Finals.

[tpols]

Kobe is currently leading the league in FGA, shooting a dismal 40%, and is avg more TOs than anyone has had per game in my lifetime. Yet he is still one of the best players in the league? And we are the ones brainwashed?
What are you talking about? Before sunday's game, Kobe's numbers were actually looking very good.. he started the season off very well before that one game destroyed his averages. He's still at worst a top 8 player in the L.. meaning he's one of the best. Is Wade not one of the best players in the league because he had a few bad shooting games?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe was not bad in the 2010 Finals.

Well he wasn't great. That would have been labeled a bad series had the Lakers lost. 6-24 in a Game 7? Seriously, you can't make this shit up :oldlol:

[arifgokcen]

Like I already said, I'll take that guy who in his prime had no weakness offensively and played 1st team NBA defense.

Mate sincerely how old are you.Did you even read anything i wrote.

You dont even bring up lebron's name when comparing two

Kobe's arsenal is of course better than anyone including MJ in his prime.
However would you pick kobe over MJ.Lebron right now is one of the best midrange shooters in the league.His offensive production is much more efficient he led the league in scoring during 4th quarters for 4 years.His offensive production during crunch time last 5 minutes was 66ppg 15rpg 9apg 3.2spg 3.2bpg.He is only behind kobe when it comes to go ahead shots 24 second or less either tied game or 1-2 points difference.

And lastly compare them so you are saying lebron's is not 1st team defense.

[arifgokcen]

It's tough because of Lebron's meltdown vs Boston and Dallas. Absolutely terrible. Big character issue with him. At the same time, Kobe blatantly quit on his team in 2006, pouted for a trade in 2007, and had a bad Finals in 2008 and 2010 (by his standards).

I may go with Lebron because of his selflessness. Considering the guy is still in his prime, lets see what he's about if the Heat make the Finals again.

Thanks mate very objective
just the gist of the intangibles

[Heavincent]

Well he wasn't great. That would have been labeled a bad series had the Lakers lost. 6-24 in a Game 7? Seriously, you can't make this shit up :oldlol:

But they didn't lose.

Jordan had two games that weren't much better in the 96 Finals. But no one ever talks about that. Kobe's 6-24 games will be completely forgotten when he retires.

[DMAVS41]

Yeah, because Smush, Luke, Kwame, Brian Cook, Chris Mihm, and Devean George are a great ****ing supporting cast :oldlol:

Fwiw, you don't win 60 games with a shitty team. It's just simple logic. If your team is good enough to win 60 games in the regular season, you can't turn around and say it was a shitty team when you flame out. Sorry, but that's the mentality of ****ing losers.

Again, this is very simple. Prime Kobe wins championships. Plural. Proven fact.

Prime Lebron? He's still looking for ring number 1.

I'll take the proven winner, as will anyone who wants to win.

When are you defining a players' prime though? Was Lebron in his in 09?...because Kobe has never played the game at the level Lebron played it in 09.

And we can't just ignore things Kobe did in his prime. Blowing a 3-1 series lead in the first round. Hey...I'll use your words "you don't get up 3-1 in the playoffs with a shitty team...simple logic"....quits in game 7.

One of the worst finals ever in 04. Misses the playoffs in 05. Poor finals in 08.....i'm assuming you are going to say Kobe was past his prime by 09 and 10.

But you are now changing things. You said that no GM would draft Lebron over Kobe. I think that is absurd to say at this point...mainly because Lebron was just an overall better player for his first 8 years than Kobe was for his.

I love how you hammer Lebron for not winning a ring with Wade last year....rightfully so I might add. But what about Kobe not winning a ring with Shaq in 03 and 04??? What about that?

Can't have it both ways.

I don't think we know enough yet about Lebron's prime or career to see which one I would take, but I would for sure take Lebron's first 9 years over Kobe's in terms of who was the better player overall.

[winwin]

kobe's 17 yo mentality >>> Lebron's prime mentality

[clayton]

kobe's 17 yo mentality >>> Lebron's prime mentality
A mentality chasing white girls.:cheers:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

But they didn't lose.

Jordan had two games that weren't much better in the 96 Finals. But no one ever talks about that. Kobe's 6-24 games will be completely forgotten when he retires.

I actually thought Rodman was the Finals MVP in 1996, but thats another story.

And I sincerely doubt it will be "forgotten". It happened on the biggest stage, G7 of the NBA Finals. People don't forget, I definitely wont (just like I wont forget Kobe quitting on his team vs Phoenix or Lebron disappearing against Dallas).

[dajadeed]

Mate sincerely how old are you.Did you even read anything i wrote.

You dont even bring up lebron's name when comparing two

Kobe's arsenal is of course better than anyone including MJ in his prime.
However would you pick kobe over MJ.Lebron right now is one of the best midrange shooters in the league.His offensive production is much more efficient he led the league in scoring during 4th quarters for 4 years.His offensive production during crunch time last 5 minutes was 66ppg 15rpg 9apg 3.2spg 3.2bpg.He is only behind kobe when it comes to go ahead shots 24 second or less either tied game or 1-2 points difference.

And lastly compare them so you are saying lebron's is not 1st team defense.

Dude, when it comes down to it, in the playoffs, Lebron plays sort of scared. He doesn't want to take shots. He's no confident in his shot. You can see it. I can see it. He's much rather have Wade taking the big shots.

It's not that he won't ever take a shot, it's that he doesn't WANT to shoot that shot because he's not 100% confident in it.

A perfect example of this is Kobe vs. Phoenix in the playoffs with 4 or 5 seconds left and a tipped ball. Lakers down 1. Kobe gets the ball at halfcourt and he just KNEW exactly where he wanted to go. Elbow jumper. He's beaten MANY teams from that exact same spot. No hesitation. Didn't look for a teammate, just went in for the kill.

Lebron doesn't have that. A zone can give Lebron fits.

Lebron is a freak athlete and a great player, but you can do a lot to contain him, especially in the playoffs.

[Heavincent]

I actually thought Rodman was the Finals MVP in 1996, but thats another story.

And I sincerely doubt it will be "forgotten". It happened on the biggest stage, G7 of the NBA Finals. People don't forget, I definitely wont.

People mostly forgot about Jordan's two poor performances in the 96 Finals, so they'll probably forget about Kobe's 6/24.

I could only imagine if ISH was around in 96. "lulz Jordan carried by his team to another championship. Most overrated player EVAR!"

They both won the FMVP's those years, and that's the only thing that matters to most people at the end of the day.

[dajadeed]

When are you defining a players' prime though? Was Lebron in his in 09?...because Kobe has never played the game at the level Lebron played it in 09.

And we can't just ignore things Kobe did in his prime. Blowing a 3-1 series lead in the first round. Hey...I'll use your words "you don't get up 3-1 in the playoffs with a shitty team...simple logic"....quits in game 7.

One of the worst finals ever in 04. Misses the playoffs in 05. Poor finals in 08.....i'm assuming you are going to say Kobe was past his prime by 09 and 10.

But you are now changing things. You said that no GM would draft Lebron over Kobe. I think that is absurd to say at this point...mainly because Lebron was just an overall better player for his first 8 years than Kobe was for his.

I love how you hammer Lebron for not winning a ring with Wade last year....rightfully so I might add. But what about Kobe not winning a ring with Shaq in 03 and 04??? What about that?

Can't have it both ways.

I don't think we know enough yet about Lebron's prime or career to see which one I would take, but I would for sure take Lebron's first 9 years over Kobe's in terms of who was the better player overall.

Are you really that dense?

You're comparing a 4 game sample to an 82 game season? :facepalm

The Lakers were a 7th seat who nearly upset the Suns. Big ****ing deal.

And dude, either way, prime or career, Kobe wins. Watch the games. He's just a more complete talent. Lebron is a more freakish talent, just not better.

Believe me, NBA front offices want guys who can beat a simple zone and have a post game by their 8th year in the league.

And the reason people bring up Kobe's rings is because it's what really matters at the end to all of these players. The great ones. Don't bring up the Horrys and Fishers. I'm talking about Kobe, MJ, Magic, Lebron (if and when he wins some). Yeah, Kobe lost 2 finals. So ****ing what? Lebron lost 2. Kobe won 3 before he ever lost 1. Big deal. Rings matter. Kobe has 5. I'll take the guy who can get me rings.

Aside from a team game, Prime Kobe was just a better basketball player than Prime Lebron. It's clear as night and day.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

People mostly forgot about Jordan's two poor performances in the 96 Finals, so they'll probably forget about Kobe's 6/24.

I could only imagine if ISH was around in 96. "lulz Jordan carried by his team to another championship. Most overrated player EVAR!"

They both won the FMVP's those years, and that's the only thing that matters to most people at the end of the day.

Well yeah, to most casual fans Iverson was better than Shaq because he was flashier.

People who really know the game inside and out, the hardcore fans...they don't forget that stuff. Revisionism just won't fly with me or people who've been watching the game religiously for over a decade.

[DMAVS41]

Are you really that dense?

You're comparing a 4 game sample to an 82 game season? :facepalm

The Lakers were a 7th seat who nearly upset the Suns. Big ****ing deal.

And dude, either way, prime or career, Kobe wins. Watch the games. He's just a more complete talent. Lebron is a more freakish talent, just not better.

Believe me, NBA front offices want guys who can beat a simple zone and have a post game by their 8th year in the league.

And the reason people bring up Kobe's rings is because it's what really matters at the end to all of these players. The great ones. Don't bring up the Horrys and Fishers. I'm talking about Kobe, MJ, Magic, Lebron (if and when he wins some). Yeah, Kobe lost 2 finals. So ****ing what? Lebron lost 2. Kobe won 3 before he ever lost 1. Big deal. Rings matter. Kobe has 5. I'll take the guy who can get me rings.

Aside from a team game, Prime Kobe was just a better basketball player than Prime Lebron. It's clear as night and day.

The fact that you think its clear proves your bias. All you need to say. Almost every objective measure favors Lebron. But somehow its clear as day.....got it.

[StateOfMind12]

LeBron over the past 5 years in PPG rankings

1st
2nd
2nd
2nd
Currently 1st.

If he finishes in 1st it will be a better 5 yr stretch than any Kobe had as far as scoring rankings.
That doesn't mean he is a better scorer than Kobe. Winning the scoring title that season doesn't mean you were necessarily the best scorer in the league that season either.

Kobe was the best scorer in the league from '05-06 to '09-'10. Dirk Nowitzki was the best scorer in the league in '10-'11. I don't think Kevin Durant was the best scorer in the league in the past two seasons when he won his scoring titles, but I have to say for now that Kevin Durant has been the best scorer in the league this season for the '11-'12 season.

[dajadeed]

The fact that you think its clear proves your bias. All you need to say. Almost every objective measure favors Lebron. But somehow its clear as day.....got it.

What is every objective measure?

lmao.

If you say PER I'll Rick James bitch slap the hell outta you.

I'll let you in on something. The most objective measure for great players is how much they won. 25 years from now people won't look at your ****ing PER or anything else. They'll want to know if you won.

Kobe has been in the league for 15 years. He's played in 7 finals. He's won 5 of them. That's pretty ****ing good.

Lebron has a hell of alot more to do to catch up.

Just comparing them head to head, what does Lebron have over Kobe? Kobe was as good a defender as you could ask your SG to be. And he had the entire textbook and then some on offense, coupled with clutchness and intangibles.

Yeah, objectively, there's no reason to pick Lebron James at all.

[Whoah10115]

When are you defining a players' prime though? Was Lebron in his in 09?...because Kobe has never played the game at the level Lebron played it in 09.



Completely ridiculous point to make. Kobe was better than Lebron in 09. Lebron was far better in the regular season but Kobe far better in the playoffs (particularly finals) and overall. Lebron was better the next regular season anyway.

[GilZero]

2k12? Lebron
Fantasy basketball? Lebron

WINNING?

Give me Kobe, nothing to discuss.

[HurricaneKid]

Completely ridiculous point to make. Kobe was better than Lebron in 09. Lebron was far better in the regular season but Kobe far better in the playoffs (particularly finals) and overall. Lebron was better the next regular season anyway.

No. Dear god no.

Lets compare Kobe in his best Finals to LeBron against that same team the previous week. Its not even close.

The Lakers were the better team. Can't argue that. But Lebron didn't even make it to the Finals (only played 14 games) and led the league in postseason WS.

LeBron was 35.3/9.1/7.3 on .618 TS%. His PER was 37.4. .399WS/48min. I've never even seen a number like that (just looked it up- highest ever in any postseason by any player)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_per_48_yearly_p.html

The Cavs go to play was to run iso 1 on 5. Just watch the postgame on game 2. They don't even know what to say.

The truth is you think being on the best team is the important thing. You think that is more important than one of the best postseason displays by a single player and why he said he wanted to play with some players.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe easily
Kobe from '00-'10 (prime) helped his team win 5 rings

I would say Kobe's prime started in the '00 because of the way he played in game 7 of the WCF, and ended in '10 after leading his team as the man to back-to-back championships and finals MVPs which only Jordan, Shaq, and Hakeem are the others who have done it.

[DMAVS41]

What is every objective measure?

lmao.

If you say PER I'll Rick James bitch slap the hell outta you.

I'll let you in on something. The most objective measure for great players is how much they won. 25 years from now people won't look at your ****ing PER or anything else. They'll want to know if you won.

Kobe has been in the league for 15 years. He's played in 7 finals. He's won 5 of them. That's pretty ****ing good.

Lebron has a hell of alot more to do to catch up.

Just comparing them head to head, what does Lebron have over Kobe? Kobe was as good a defender as you could ask your SG to be. And he had the entire textbook and then some on offense, coupled with clutchness and intangibles.

Yeah, objectively, there's no reason to pick Lebron James at all.

No. Just overall statistically. Lebron has been better....

Is this Lebron vs Kobe....or Lebron's teams vs Kobe's teams?

If your entire argument is "rings"...then we simply can't have it yet. Lebron has legit chances to win a lot of titles. If he fails to win multiple titles then I will agree with you. I go off of what I've seen. I can't predict the future.

You brought up two things:

1. That Kobe would be drafted ahead of Lebron by every GM. Could not disagree more. Especially because Lebron has simply been a better player over his first 8 (about to 9) seasons than Kobe was over his first 9.

2. That you would take prime Kobe over Lebron because he's a better "winner"....I'm not ready to make that decision yet. Because while Lebron was awful against the Mavs. Kobe was damn near as bad in the finals in 04. Both were in their primes. While Lebron had the weird game against the Celtics in 10...Kobe had his weird game against the Suns in 06. Both of them in their primes.

Kobe has had some legendary playoff performances. Lebron has had some legendary playoff performances.

Meh....just nothing clear about the answer at all actually. And we simply need more time to see what Lebron does over the next 5 years before we can address your "better winner"...claim

Stop acting like I'm being one sided....I'm saying its absolutely close and debatable. You are saying its clear cut. Think for a second which one of us is being ignorant and narrow minded.

[7_cody]

dajadeed actually brings up several good points. I've been trying to say what he's saying for years, that statistics are okay and all, but they are easily manipulated.

LeBron is a great player, but he's also perfect at manipulating and tailoring his stats to his liking. I've never seen Kobe pass off an open shot because he's afraid to lower his field goal percentage, or hold the ball instead of going for the full court shot at the buzzer to protect his stats, steal rebounds from teammates, etc Kobe on the other hand doesn't care what his percentages are, his stats are, he goes by the game plan every single game and has probably drawn more double teams than anyone in the last decade

I enjoy watching LeBron, he's a great player, but he doesn't win championships for you - he lost with DWYANE WADE AND BOSH ON HIS TEAM, for gods sake...

Stats are okay and all, but when they're as close as they are, then they are completely meaningless.

Let's use Bynum to show how misleading stats are, for example, lets say he started his career as a franchise player, does anyone on this board really not think he'd be averaging a career double double? Wouldn't his stats be pretty incredible? But they aren't, and it's because his situation in the NBA is unique, he was first developed, and since then has been behind Bryant and Pau - should GMs not want him because his stats are not as great as other legendary C's? No, they want him because they've seen him play and they know how good he is when healthy

Kobe understands that statistics don't mean anything, but if he had to pick one that did mean a lot, then it would be points, because ultimately basketball is about scoring and stopping the other team from scoring, and he knows that winning is all that really matters, and that's why he would rather be traded to a competent team that will do what it takes to compete for championships then losing in the first round to Nash and the Suns

[DMAVS41]

dajadeed actually brings up several good points. I've been trying to say what he's saying for years, that statistics are okay and all, but they are easily manipulated.

LeBron is a great player, but he's also perfect at manipulating and tailoring his stats to his liking. I've never seen Kobe pass off an open shot because he's afraid to lower his field goal percentage, or hold the ball instead of going for the full court shot at the buzzer to protect his stats, steal rebounds from teammates, etc Kobe on the other hand doesn't care what his percentages are, his stats are, he goes by the game plan every single game and has probably drawn more double teams than anyone in the last decade

I enjoy watching LeBron, he's a great player, but he doesn't win championships for you - he lost with DWYANE WADE AND BOSH ON HIS TEAM, for gods sake...

Stats are okay and all, but when they're as close as they are, then they are completely meaningless.

Let's use Bynum to show how misleading stats are, for example, lets say he started his career as a franchise player, does anyone on this board really not think he'd be averaging a career double double? Wouldn't his stats be pretty incredible? But they aren't, and it's because his situation in the NBA is unique, he was first developed, and since then has been behind Bryant and Pau - should GMs not want him because his stats are not as great as other legendary C's? No, they want him because they've seen him play and they know how good he is when healthy

Kobe understands that statistics don't mean anything, but if he had to pick one that did mean a lot, then it would be points, because ultimately basketball is about scoring and stopping the other team from scoring, and he knows that winning is all that really matters, and that's why he would rather be traded to a competent team that will do what it takes to compete for championships then losing in the first round to Nash and the Suns


I agree that Lebron should be hammered for the way he played, but what about Kobe LOSING WITH PRIME FREAKING SHAQ AND THE GOAT COACH ON HIS TEAM?

It seems that we are ignoring that because Kobe has won. That is my point. Give Lebron a chance to actually play out his prime. Its simply not fair to compare rings at this point. Lebron has had 1 shot at the title legitimately...maybe 2 if you count 10. So let it play out.

What are you going to say if Lebron leads the Heat to 3 titles in the next 5 years? Just seems premature to write off a player that just turned 27.

[7_cody]

I agree that Lebron should be hammered for the way he played, but what about Kobe LOSING WITH PRIME FREAKING SHAQ AND THE GOAT COACH ON HIS TEAM?

It seems that we are ignoring that because Kobe has won. That is my point. Give Lebron a chance to actually play out his prime. Its simply not fair to compare rings at this point. Lebron has had 1 shot at the title legitimately...maybe 2 if you count 10. So let it play out.

What are you going to say if Lebron leads the Heat to 3 titles in the next 5 years? Just seems premature to write off a player that just turned 27.

Are you forgetting that Dwyane led Shaq to another title the year after that? Maybe Shaq wasn't as dominate as you think he was at that point? But, fair enough

I still think Prime Kobe with this Dwyane Wade and Bosh would have beaten the Mavs last year in the Finals, that's just my personal opinion. Prime Kobe could easily beat the Mavs zone defense.

[Whoah10115]

No. Dear god no.

Lets compare Kobe in his best Finals to LeBron against that same team the previous week. Its not even close.

The Lakers were the better team. Can't argue that. But Lebron didn't even make it to the Finals (only played 14 games) and led the league in postseason WS.

LeBron was 35.3/9.1/7.3 on .618 TS%. His PER was 37.4. .399WS/48min. I've never even seen a number like that (just looked it up- highest ever in any postseason by any player)
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_per_48_yearly_p.html

The Cavs go to play was to run iso 1 on 5. Just watch the postgame on game 2. They don't even know what to say.

The truth is you think being on the best team is the important thing. You think that is more important than one of the best postseason displays by a single player and why he said he wanted to play with some players.



Don't tell me what I think and proclaim it as truth.



I couldn't care less about WS. It means 0 to me and is completely irrelevant as a bottom line. It's a BS statistic, because it's a statistic that that guises as a bottom line.



I watched Orlando beat Cleveland comfortably and I saw Lebron do nothing but add to his WS. Please. It isn't like Howard's supporting cast was better than Lebron's. You need a better example than that.

[dajadeed]

Are you forgetting that Dwyane led Shaq to another title the year after that? Maybe Shaq wasn't as dominate as you think he was at that point? But, fair enough

I still think Prime Kobe with this Dwyane Wade and Bosh would have beaten the Mavs last year in the Finals, that's just my personal opinion. Prime Kobe could easily beat the Mavs zone defense.

Prime Kobe outscored the Mavs team that lost to Wade in the finals through 3 quarters by himself.

That's the biggest differenct between him and Lebron. Kobe is lightyears ahead offensively. If you don't believe me, just watch Lebron struggle posting up and against the zone. Kobe would tear teams apart in those situations.

My argument isn't only that Kobe is a better winner than Lebron, that's just a pure fact. Kobe is also a better basketball player. People point to his "bad shot," but Kobe's footwork, midrange game, turn-around, post-game, and long-range shot is textbook. He blows Lebron James away there.

In playoff basketball, grind it out games, where every possession counts, I want the guy who can create and/or score from anywhere on the court. That's why I keep bringing up the fact that Kobe Bryant in his prime had no weakness. Lebron can't say the same.

[7_cody]

Prime Kobe outscored the Mavs team that lost to Wade in the finals through 3 quarters by himself.

That's the biggest differenct between him and Lebron. Kobe is lightyears ahead offensively. If you don't believe me, just watch Lebron struggle posting up and against the zone. Kobe would tear teams apart in those situations.

My argument isn't only that Kobe is a better winner than Lebron, that's just a pure fact. Kobe is also a better basketball player. People point to his "bad shot," but Kobe's footwork, midrange game, turn-around, post-game, and long-range shot is textbook. He blows Lebron James away there.

In playoff basketball, grind it out games, where every possession counts, I want the guy who can create and/or score from anywhere on the court. That's why I keep bringing up the fact that Kobe Bryant in his prime had no weakness. Lebron can't say the same.

I'm with you, I look at the stats, and then i watch both prime Kobe and LeBron, and ehhh... Kobe is so much better

[cotdt]

Last year was Lebron's prime. He made it to the Finals. He scored a combined 17 fourth quarter points in the 6 games.

[DMAVS41]

Are you forgetting that Dwyane led Shaq to another title the year after that? Maybe Shaq wasn't as dominate as you think he was at that point? But, fair enough

I still think Prime Kobe with this Dwyane Wade and Bosh would have beaten the Mavs last year in the Finals, that's just my personal opinion. Prime Kobe could easily beat the Mavs zone defense.

What? That makes it even worse. Shaq won 2 years later with Wade but couldn't win with a prime Kobe?

LOL at thinking that helps your side.....

And I think a prime Lebron would have beaten the Spurs in 03 and won the title that year along with winning it in 04.....just my personal opinion.

[DMAVS41]

Prime Kobe outscored the Mavs team that lost to Wade in the finals through 3 quarters by himself.

That's the biggest differenct between him and Lebron. Kobe is lightyears ahead offensively. If you don't believe me, just watch Lebron struggle posting up and against the zone. Kobe would tear teams apart in those situations.

My argument isn't only that Kobe is a better winner than Lebron, that's just a pure fact. Kobe is also a better basketball player. People point to his "bad shot," but Kobe's footwork, midrange game, turn-around, post-game, and long-range shot is textbook. He blows Lebron James away there.

In playoff basketball, grind it out games, where every possession counts, I want the guy who can create and/or score from anywhere on the court. That's why I keep bringing up the fact that Kobe Bryant in his prime had no weakness. Lebron can't say the same.

He has no weaknesses, yet he hasn't cracked 50% shooting one time in his entire playoff career. LOL

And he's a putrid 7 of 25 on playoff game winners. Yep...no weaknesses. He's also a player known to try to make statements through his play. A player that chose ego/selfishness over winning with Shaq. A player that is the worst elimination game player of this era and maybe all time....

Yep...no weaknesses.

[Heavincent]

Prime Kobe outscored the Mavs team that lost to Wade in the finals through 3 quarters by himself.

That's the biggest differenct between him and Lebron. Kobe is lightyears ahead offensively. If you don't believe me, just watch Lebron struggle posting up and against the zone. Kobe would tear teams apart in those situations.

My argument isn't only that Kobe is a better winner than Lebron, that's just a pure fact. Kobe is also a better basketball player. People point to his "bad shot," but Kobe's footwork, midrange game, turn-around, post-game, and long-range shot is textbook. He blows Lebron James away there.

In playoff basketball, grind it out games, where every possession counts, I want the guy who can create and/or score from anywhere on the court. That's why I keep bringing up the fact that Kobe Bryant in his prime had no weakness. Lebron can't say the same.

:applause:

I think people forget how dominant Kobe was in his prime. Teams had no answer for him. Well, there was no answer for him. You knew he was gonna drop 30 or 40 points on you, you just had to prevent him from scoring 50-80 points on you. There isn't a player in the NBA right now that is anywhere near as lethal a scorer as prime Kobe. What current player is capable of putting up 40+ points on a fairly regular basis like prime Kobe did? Yeah, nobody.

[AngelEyes]

:applause:

I think people forget how dominant Kobe was in his prime. Teams had no answer for him. Well, there was no answer for him. You knew he was gonna drop 30 or 40 points on you, you just had to prevent him from scoring 50-80 points on you. There isn't a player in the NBA right now that is anywhere near as lethal a scorer as prime Kobe. What current player is capable of putting up 40+ points on a fairly regular basis like prime Kobe did? Yeah, nobody.

I think Durant is getting there.

[dajadeed]

He has no weaknesses, yet he hasn't cracked 50% shooting one time in his entire playoff career. LOL

And he's a putrid 7 of 25 on playoff game winners. Yep...no weaknesses. He's also a player known to try to make statements through his play. A player that chose ego/selfishness over winning with Shaq. A player that is the worst elimination game player of this era and maybe all time....

Yep...no weaknesses.

Yeah, no weakness. He doesn't need to shoot 50%, he's a ****ing shooting guard, not a power forward.

Kobe's biggest beef with Shaq was that Shaq didn't take basketball seriously. Everyone knows how that turned out. Shaq takes shot at every team he leaves. The team chose Kobe and they most definitely made the right choice.

I'm not sure how he's the worst elimination game player of this era while he's won 5 rings in 15 years with two more finals appearances to boot. :oldlol:

Keep living in your fantasy land, homey. You and John Hollinger can go to sleep crying over your shooting percentages and PERs.

[Deuce Bigalow]

He has no weaknesses, yet he hasn't cracked 50% shooting one time in his entire playoff career. LOL

And he's a putrid 7 of 25 on playoff game winners. Yep...no weaknesses. He's also a player known to try to make statements through his play. A player that chose ego/selfishness over winning with Shaq. A player that is the worst elimination game player of this era and maybe all time....

Yep...no weaknesses.
Worst elimination player?
:facepalm

2000 WCF game 7 (win)
25 pts. 11 reb, 7 ast, 4 blk, 9-19 FG (leading his team in 4 categories)

2001 WC 2nd round game 4 (win)
48 pts, 16 reb, 2 ast, 2 stl, 1 blk, 15-29 FG

2002 WCF game 7 (win)
30 pts, 10 reb, 7 ast, 2 stl, 10-26 FG

How about 2009-2010?

2009 WCF game 6 (win)
35 pts, 6 reb, 10 ast, 1 blk, 12-20 FG

2010 WCF game 6 (win)
37 pts, 6 reb, 2 ast, 2 stl, 12-25 FG

2010 WC 1st Round game 6 (win)
32 pts, 7 reb, 3 ast, 12-25 FG

2010 WC 2nd round game 4 (win)
32 pts, 3 reb, 4 ast, 1 stl, 11-23 FG

could list more but Kobe has a long career so It would take long

You also think Dirk is a better playoff performer than Kobe :roll:
So why did i respond to you, I dont know

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Yeah, no weakness. He doesn't need to shoot 50%, he's a ****ing shooting guard, not a power forward.

Kobe's biggest beef with Shaq was that Shaq didn't take basketball seriously. Everyone knows how that turned out. Shaq takes shot at every team he leaves. The team chose Kobe and they most definitely made the right choice.

Kobe's biggest quarrel with Shaq was jealousy. Shaq's work ethic may have not been the best, but he still managed to win 3x Finals MVP's. That must have infuriated Kobe. Knowing that no matter how hard he tried he would never be as good as O'neal.

“I’m not going to try to go out there and outdo him. I don’t have to try to outdo him, I’m Shaq."

[Deuce Bigalow]

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Kobe's biggest quarrel with Shaq was jealousy. Shaq's work ethic may have not been the best, but he still managed to win 3x Finals MVP's. That must have infuriated Kobe. Knowing that no matter how hard he tried he would never be as good as O'neal.

[Heavincent]

I think Durant is getting there.

Durant is the best scorer in the NBA right now, but he only has like one 50+ point game in his career. Maybe he will eventually become that guy that drops 40+ points like it's nothing though. He's still young and I'm sure he'll continue to improve his already good offensive skill-set.

[dajadeed]

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Kobe's biggest quarrel with Shaq was jealousy. Shaq's work ethic may have not been the best, but he still managed to win 3x Finals MVP's. That must have infuriated Kobe. Knowing that no matter how hard he tried he would never be as good as O'neal.

[6JamesIsKing]

There are only a few players that can have they name mention along with Prime Lebron James, and Kobe Bryant is not one of them.

[Heavincent]

There are only a few players that can have they name mention along with Prime Lebron James, and Kobe Bryant is not one of them.

:roll: :roll:

[Xyph]

joke thread. Kobe obviously had a better prime.

[6JamesIsKing]

:roll: :roll:

Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'Neal, Kareem Abdul Jabaar, Hakeem Olajuwon, Wilt Chamberlain, Magic Johnson.

Lebron James since 08 has been on their level of play and hasn't shown any side of weakness, but I understand he won't get the credit he deserves until he wins a title.

[Heavincent]

Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'Neal, Kareem Abdul Jabaar, Hakeem Olajuwon, Wilt Chamberlain, Magic Johnson.


Lebron does not belong in the same sentence as those guys.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

No, this is the ignorant hyped way of looking at it

No hype young grasshopper, just reality.

The Last season (http://www.amazon.com/Last-Season-Team-Search-Soul/dp/1594200351) - pickup a copy if you haven't so already.

[Deuce Bigalow]

There are only a few players that can have they name mention along with Prime Lebron James, and Kobe Bryant is not one of them.
http://tnation.t-nation.com/forum_images/6/4/642e1_ORIG-obvious_troll.jpg

[dajadeed]

No hype young grasshopper, just reality.

The Last season (http://www.amazon.com/Last-Season-Team-Search-Soul/dp/1594200351) - pickup a copy if you haven't so already.

Written by the guy who just coached Kobe to 3 straight finals appearances and 2 titles, right? :oldlol:

[knightfall88]

Again I reiterate for the idiots:

Kobe is better offensively. Kobe is better defensively.

What else do you want to hear?

[dajadeed]

Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'Neal, Kareem Abdul Jabaar, Hakeem Olajuwon, Wilt Chamberlain, Magic Johnson.

Lebron James since 08 has been on their level of play and hasn't shown any side of weakness, but I understand he won't get the credit he deserves until he wins a title.

I would call not being able to post-up Rajon Rondo a weakness.

So is the thought of a zone stopping you:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx881oZ2Uh1qi0ij1o1_500.jpg

[9erEmpire]

Kobe over Lebron, just on mental makeup alone.

This man left his home state because he couldn't handle the pressure and ended up forming another Olympic team.

He has disappeared in the Finals on his first year with the team. Why disappear? I would think he would elevate his game because he's in the Finals.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Again I reiterate for the idiots:

Kobe is better offensively. Kobe is better defensively.

What else do you want to hear?
what about the rings? :lol

[9erEmpire]

what about the rings? :lol

Also, impact on the game that Kobe does.

Too bad people here are too young to watch young or prime Kobe.

[TheAesirsFinest]

Worst elimination player?
:facepalm

2000 WCF game 7 (win)
25 pts. 11 reb, 7 ast, 4 blk, 9-19 FG (leading his team in 4 categories)

2001 WC 2nd round game 4 (win)
48 pts, 16 reb, 2 ast, 2 stl, 1 blk, 15-29 FG

2002 WCF game 7 (win)
30 pts, 10 reb, 7 ast, 2 stl, 10-26 FG

How about 2009-2010?

2009 WCF game 6 (win)
35 pts, 6 reb, 10 ast, 1 blk, 12-20 FG

2010 WCF game 6 (win)
37 pts, 6 reb, 2 ast, 2 stl, 12-25 FG

2010 WC 1st Round game 6 (win)
32 pts, 7 reb, 3 ast, 12-25 FG

2010 WC 2nd round game 4 (win)
32 pts, 3 reb, 4 ast, 1 stl, 11-23 FG

could list more but Kobe has a long career so It would take long

You also think Dirk is a better playoff performer than Kobe :roll:
So why did i respond to you, I dont know

Fantastic, you picked out some of Kobe's great games. Too bad out of the 7 you chose, only 2 were elimination games.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Written by the guy who just coached Kobe to 3 straight finals appearances and 2 titles, right? :oldlol:

Kobe has matured in a lot of ways, but that doesn't change what went down and how Phil felt at the time. To this day, you can still see Kobe's need for wanting to be the center of attention.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Fantastic, you picked out some of Kobe's great games. Too bad out of the 7 you chose, only 2 were elimination games.
Elimination game = Elimination game

So if the Lakers are up 3-2 and they win game 6, they eliminated that team

[9erEmpire]

What is up with the hypocrisy surrounding the haters.

When Kobe is hitting game winners after game winners, people like to say Lebron doesn't keep his opponents close. He doesn't need to hit game winners.

But, with Kobe people like to make new standards and that is elimination games? Guess what, I will play that game too.

Kobe puts the series away, he rarely needs to play to a game 7.

[Zenji]

Kobe. Why? He would step on a babies head to win. From an unbiased Nets fan.

http://ih0.redbubble.net/image.3373436.1218/flat,550x550,075,f.jpg

[9erEmpire]

Kobe. Why? He would step on a babies head to win. From an unbiased Nets fan.

http://http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kxtuhfIuuK1qakz20o1_500.jpg

Who can forget what he did to the Nets in the Finals.

[DMAVS41]

Worst elimination player?
:facepalm

2000 WCF game 7 (win)
25 pts. 11 reb, 7 ast, 4 blk, 9-19 FG (leading his team in 4 categories)

2001 WC 2nd round game 4 (win)
48 pts, 16 reb, 2 ast, 2 stl, 1 blk, 15-29 FG

2002 WCF game 7 (win)
30 pts, 10 reb, 7 ast, 2 stl, 10-26 FG

How about 2009-2010?

2009 WCF game 6 (win)
35 pts, 6 reb, 10 ast, 1 blk, 12-20 FG

2010 WCF game 6 (win)
37 pts, 6 reb, 2 ast, 2 stl, 12-25 FG

2010 WC 1st Round game 6 (win)
32 pts, 7 reb, 3 ast, 12-25 FG

2010 WC 2nd round game 4 (win)
32 pts, 3 reb, 4 ast, 1 stl, 11-23 FG

could list more but Kobe has a long career so It would take long

You also think Dirk is a better playoff performer than Kobe :roll:
So why did i respond to you, I dont know


Yes. Here are the actual facts:

http://www.backpicks.com/2011/06/12/the-elite-in-elimination-games-since-1991/

Boom. Next.....

[dajadeed]

Yes. Here are the actual facts:

http://www.backpicks.com/2011/06/12/the-elite-in-elimination-games-since-1991/

Boom. Next.....

And the Kobe haters can only resort to made up statistics which have no relevancy at all in reality.

:oldlol:

Yeah, the guy with no rings in 8 years is better than the guy with 5 rings in 15 years in elimination games. I'm not sure what world that makes sense in...

You simply don't win 5 rings being "bad" in elimination games. That's just one of the dumbest things you could say.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

And the Kobe haters can only resort to made up statistics which have no relevancy at all in reality.

:oldlol:

Yeah, the guy with no rings in 8 years is better than the guy with 5 rings in 15 years in elimination games. I'm not sure what world that makes sense in...

You simply don't win 5 rings being "bad" in elimination games. That's just one of the dumbest things you could say.

Those aren't 'made up statistics' (that blog writer is 100% legit). You can look them up yourself.

Kobe has 7 NBA Finals appearances under his belt, so yes, there's a strong possibility he's come up short in elimination games.

[Deuce Bigalow]

If your team is up 3-2 or 3-1, and you win that game, that is an elimination game

[DMAVS41]

If your team is up 3-2 or 3-1, and you win that game, that is an elimination game

no its not. that is a close out game. elimination games is when you can be eliminated...not hard.

[9erEmpire]

If your team is up 3-2 or 3-1, and you win that game, that is an elimination game

you have to remember that these trolls are idiots.

[DevilsAssassin]

you have to remember that these trolls are idiots.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[dajadeed]

Those aren't 'made up statistics' (that blog writer is 100% legit). You can look them up yourself.

Kobe has 7 NBA Finals appearances under his belt, so yes, there's a strong possibility he's come up short in elimination games.

No one goes to 7 finals and wins 5 of them should be anywhere near a conversation about "bad players in elimination games."

It's simple logic. Just simple math will tell you that he's better than a VAST majority of players who have ever played in the league. lmao @ Lebron being better than Kobe in "elimination" games.

And it is a "made up" stat. It's bullshit and flies in the face of reality.

[knightfall88]

And the Kobe haters can only resort to made up statistics which have no relevancy at all in reality.

:oldlol:

Yeah, the guy with no rings in 8 years is better than the guy with 5 rings in 15 years in elimination games. I'm not sure what world that makes sense in...

You simply don't win 5 rings being "bad" in elimination games. That's just one of the dumbest things you could say.

It's the same idiot who said "oh no Kobe didn't even make 50% FG%" In Kobe's good series is probably around 45 - 49%. The difference between 45% and 50% is ONE FG MADE. And Kobe takes a lot of shots in the perimeter due to his strengths or to facilitate the bigs or whatnot. Either way, completely insignificant.

[DMAVS41]

And the Kobe haters can only resort to made up statistics which have no relevancy at all in reality.

:oldlol:

Yeah, the guy with no rings in 8 years is better than the guy with 5 rings in 15 years in elimination games. I'm not sure what world that makes sense in...

You simply don't win 5 rings being "bad" in elimination games. That's just one of the dumbest things you could say.

but he is. its just a fact. when kobe is facing elimination, he hasn't performed well.

just a fact....but that is the art of the stan...they try to debate facts and claim everything is a "made up statistic"......

[Deuce Bigalow]

but he is. its just a fact. when kobe is facing elimination, he hasn't performed well.

just a fact....but that is the art of the stan...they try to debate facts and claim everything is a "made up statistic"......
2000 WCF game 7 and 2002 WCF game 7....

[dajadeed]

no its not. that is a close out game. elimination games is when you can be eliminated...not hard.

So Lebron has gone out every single year in his career on an elimination game, right?

lmao.

I guess you'd have a larger size with Lebron since Kobe has much more "close out" games than "elimination" games.

That's why he's "The Closer." :rockon:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

No one goes to 7 finals and wins 5 of them should be anywhere near a conversation about "bad players in elimination games."

I never said he was bad, far from it. To presume that just because he has 5 championships means he's had ZERO 'bad elimination games' is absurd.

Wrong again. It's not a "made up stat". Those are cold-hard facts son.

[Deuce Bigalow]

no its not. that is a close out game. elimination games is when you can be eliminated...not hard.
Kobe prevents that from happening, in a series thats tied 1-1 or 2-2 he always steps up

[DMAVS41]

2000 WCF game 7 and 2002 WCF game 7....

you people act like i make this shit up. his performances are what they are. some great ones...some crappy ones. overall, when facing elimination, kobe has been poor.

[DMAVS41]

Kobe prevents that from happening, in a series thats tied 1-1 or 2-2 he always steps up

yes. i forgot. he has no flaws. he is the perfect player and clearly better than lebron. even though nothing supports it other than your opinion.

[dajadeed]

but he is. its just a fact. when kobe is facing elimination, he hasn't performed well.

just a fact....but that is the art of the stan...they try to debate facts and claim everything is a "made up statistic"......

Game 7 against Sacramento? Against Portland? Against Houston? Against Boston?

Look, simple logic tells you that in this league you don't win as much as Kobe has being "bad" in elimination games.

It's a silly argument to bring up here anyways, since Lebron has gone out every single year flaming in elimination games.

[DevilsAssassin]

Kobe prevents that from happening, in a series thats tied 1-1 or 2-2 he always steps up

get Kobe's dick out your ear you ****ing *******

[Deuce Bigalow]

get Kobe's dick out your ear you ****ing *******
****er It's a fact that if you play well in games 1-5 you dont have to be in an elimination position

[dajadeed]

you people act like i make this shit up. his performances are what they are. some great ones...some crappy ones. overall, when facing elimination, kobe has been poor.

Again, you're just flat out lying.

Come with facts.

How can a guy who doesn't even face elimination games every single year, who wins a title 33% of his years in the league, be bad at elimination games while the guy who is eliminated every single year in "elimination" games be better?

Do you think people are stupid?

[DMAVS41]

Again, you're just flat out lying.

Come with facts.

How can a guy who doesn't even face elimination games every single year, who wins a title 33% of his years in the league, be bad at elimination games while the guy who is eliminated every single year in "elimination" games be better?

Do you think people are stupid?

Come with facts?

These are the facts you ****ing moron:

http://www.backpicks.com/2011/06/12/the-elite-in-elimination-games-since-1991/

right there. every elimination game of kobe's ****ing career. right there. too stupid to read?

[9erEmpire]

Come with facts?

These are the facts you ****ing moron:

http://www.backpicks.com/2011/06/12/the-elite-in-elimination-games-since-1991/

right there. every elimination game of kobe's ****ing career. right there. too stupid to read?

Remember don't always believe what you read on the internet.

Those stats you posted shows numbers that nobody can correlate to or translate and explain what each digit means.

Don't be that naive...you honestly believe Kobe plays poorly in elimination games when the man went to win 5 Finals out of 7.

That doesn't make sense does it.....

[trooper]

bit premature because lebron has been beasting this year but i'd take peak lebron over peak kobe if i was to start a team - i just feel he in his peak has been the better player. however, as someone previously mentioned, kobe's role is much more defined and if we were given specific scenario's i'd take kobe for a few, for sure.

interesting to note that if kobe's PRIME has lasted much longer than i feel lebron's will, meaning kobe has longevity on his side, so that has to be considered. although i'd gladly eat my words if lebron continues his dominance for the next 10+ years.

[9erEmpire]

Also, on another side note...prime Kobe came with a lot of things besides the game of basketball.

He brings in millions and millions of dollars to your franchise, something that Lebron has never done.

Kobe sells out every arena. Usually top merchandise man. Top endorser and head of Nike.

[KingBeasley08]

Also, on another side note...prime Kobe came with a lot of things besides the game of basketball.

He brings in millions and millions of dollars to your franchise, something that Lebron has never done.
Kobe sells out every arena. Usually top merchandise man. Top endorser and head of Nike.
:oldlol: :facepalm

[Legends66NBA7]

Actually Kobe's elimination game numbers as follows:

Kobe from 1997-2011

21.47ppg 6.12 reb 3.41ast 1.24stl 0.53blk 40.0%fg 79.5%ft 27.2%3pt 3.0t/o


Kobe as the leader from 2006-2011

23.13ppg 6.75reb 2.25ast 1.88stl 0.38blk 37.6%fg 82.1%ft 28.3%3pt 3.88t/o


Kobe 1997-2011… 191 missed shots, 127 made shots


No backpicks needed, those are his productions from 17 elimination games. Lakers record is 8-9.

[TheAesirsFinest]

Seriously, some of the posters in this thread are simply dumb. A middle school drop out would feel like he's Stephen Hawking reading some of this stuff.

[amfirst]

Lets look at LeBron's finals stats. Ugh nvm. Kobe it is.

[dajadeed]

Come with facts?

These are the facts you ****ing moron:

http://www.backpicks.com/2011/06/12/the-elite-in-elimination-games-since-1991/

right there. every elimination game of kobe's ****ing career. right there. too stupid to read?
5 rings say **** you to u and all other stat geeks.

[dajadeed]

Only a person with a low iq would come in with that bullshit elimination game crap here. 5 rings say shut the **** up....

[TheAesirsFinest]

Only a person with a low iq would come in with that bullshit elimination game crap here. 5 rings say shut the **** up....

Please read this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic).

[Simple Jack]

This thread is full of fail.

Props to ShaqAttack for making a great coherent post.

[D-Wade316]

Yes. Here are the actual facts:

http://www.backpicks.com/2011/06/12/the-elite-in-elimination-games-since-1991/

Boom. Next.....
Dwyane Wade leading the pack at 32.2ppg, and placed 8th overall in Game score. Dirk as well. :rockon: Kobe dead last. :roll: