I want to trade Amare Stoudemire

[knickswin]

I don't see it happening with him on this team. Amare is a niche player. He needs a good pg, incredible spacing, and the offense run for him to be a good enough scorer to make up for his other faults (defense, defense, defense). he does not have a post game, and he lacks finesse.

I would LOVE pau gasol, luis scola, or andrea bargnani. they are much better fits with carmelo. all excellent second options who wouldn't be LIABILITIES for their teams on defense.

[RazorBaLade]

pau to ny, amare to orl, howard to lakers

??

[Scoooter]

Trading Carmelo for Deron Williams would be even better.

[airchibundo507]

pau to ny, amare to orl, howard to lakers

??
DO IT

[R.I.P.]

Are you the Knicks owner or GM? Otherwise I

[ConanRulesNBC]

Just get a real coach. Try for Jerry Sloan or Phil Jackson or go for Jeff Van Gundy.

[wang4three]

Scola or Bargnani over Amare???? Over-react much?

[dee-rose]

Bargs? Call the raptors FO right now. They'll accept your offer so fast it'll be in the league office before you get a chance to hang out.

[airchibundo507]

Trading Carmelo for Deron Williams would be even better.
not for the defense. Chandler isn't even enough to overshadow Amare's "defense"

[wang4three]

Just get a real coach. Try for Jerry Sloan or Phil Jackson or go for Jeff Van Gundy.

JVG back in NY? Hopefully another brawl ensues.

[ConanRulesNBC]

pau to ny, amare to orl, howard to lakers

??

Wouldn't be that bad but again nothing is changing unless the Knicks fire D'Antoni.

[blacknapalm]

bargnani? not a liability on defense? wtf? if douglas didn't run the pick n roll like a fool, amar'e would most likely be fine. though i do agree he doesn't fit that well with melo. they just both iso too much for them to maximize their talents

[Scoooter]

not for the defense. Chandler isn't even enough to overshadow Amare's "defense"
Chandler for Dwight.

[bingo123]

pau to ny, amare to orl, howard to lakers

??

And then you have Howard and Bynum on the same team. What do you do next? Trade Bynum or....

[RazorBaLade]

Wouldn't be that bad but again nothing is changing unless the Knicks fire D'Antoni.

Well sooner or later the personnel has to be held accountable, even if it doesnt start from the top down with the coach, it COULD start from the players but i doubt it is. I guarantee u that amare isnt in practice yelling at people to play defense... Pau might end up doing that. Melo and baron might agree. Idk.

I think all teams would at least be on the right path with that trade.. I like it a lot. Idk what LA would do with howard/bynum at PF , makes no sense, but NY def gets better and Orl gets themselves a flashy all star on a team that has a PG and shooters

[knickswin]

Scola or Bargnani over Amare???? Over-react much?

it really isn't, and i'm not basing this on one game. you have to understand, amare is a limited player, even on offense. he doesn't have a back to the basket game. he doesn't not have exceptional handle which means he frequently turns the ball over when he faces up. he does not have great basketball iq. he is a good shooter and he is a good finisher off of pick and rolls IF he has a point guard who can hit him properly and has the spacing he needs which is IMPOSSIBLE with tyson and carmelo on this team.

on defense he is a disaster.

[Doko]

Bargs? Call the raptors FO right now. They'll accept your offer so fast it'll be in the league office before you get a chance to hang out.

yeah sure, Raptors FO would take your shitty lameass contract you gave to Amare f'n Stoudamire in an heartbeat. what are you smoking son? :lol

[RazorBaLade]

And then you have Howard and Bynum on the same team. What do you do next? Trade Bynum or....

Yeah the Lakers come out of that trade with a few questions but if you can trade pau for howard you have to do it.. One option is yes use bynum and the trade exception to get a PG and a PF... Or play Howard at PF? They would figure it out.

Damn I love that trade for all teams involved.

[knickswin]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]Are you the Knicks owner or GM? Otherwise I

[madmax]

Amare is the least of your problems when you allow freaking Bobcats to score 118 points:lol No professional basketball team could be THIS bad defensively...

[PrimeJohnnyDepp]

I would LOVE pau gasol, luis scola, or andrea bargnani. they are much better fits with carmelo.

look, guy. get off dick. this is sooo 2005, leaving 1 guy with a solid big, seeing what he can do.

You can have that on a trash team like Orlando. Knicks won't have this. It's too much of a wankery to put up with it. Carmelo is the one shitting on team. Can you grasp this with your tiny pea brain ?

[R.I.P.]

Amare is the least of your problems when you allow freaking Bobcats to score 118 points:lol No professional basketball team could be THIS bad defensively...

You know what, now that you spell it out. It

[knickswin]

Amare is the least of your problems when you allow freaking Bobcats to score 118 points:lol No professional basketball team could be THIS bad defensively...

lol, he IS our problem on defense. He is a PUTRID team defender. possibly the worst in the league. he misses rotations like you wouldn't believe. he'll play halfway decent on ball defense for a possession or two and think that justifies wandering around the paint like a space cadet every other possession. guys get easy lay-ups against him all the time just with simple cuts. he never brings the help on time.

[ConanRulesNBC]

All I know is if you can't contend with Tyson Chandler, Amar'e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony, the players aren't the problem, it's the coaching.

[bingo123]

Yeah the Lakers come out of that trade with a few questions but if you can trade pau for howard you have to do it.. One option is yes use bynum and the trade exception to get a PG and a PF... Or play Howard at PF? They would figure it out.

Damn I love that trade for all teams involved.

Dont think Howard at PF would work. I think Lakers would have to trade Bynum if they get DH somehow.

[blacknapalm]

trade him for boozer and get back to me on the defense thing

[PP34Deuce]

For Amare to be shooting 3 pointers...is big cause for concern..I do think when you judge he makes close to 20 million, he should be playing his role better.

Some ISH posters said Melo and Amare couldn't co-exist. Anthony seems to try on defense more than Amare, and he even tries to get his teammates involved.

Amare sulks, and settles for jumpers. I do think if they can trade him for a very good PG stashed on a bench, or a Pau Gasol type player..You do it. He wants to be the man and amare is not the biggest hustler on the court when he's unhappy.

[Sarcastic]

DO IT

Are you fcking crazy?

[BoogieWoogieMan]

I would LOVE pau gasol, luis scola, or andrea bargnani. they are much better fits with carmelo. all excellent second options who wouldn't be LIABILITIES for their teams on defense.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TheEndOfItAll/My%20GIFs%202/lol/OHDAMNLOL.gif

[airchibundo507]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]You know what, now that you spell it out. It

[RoseCity07]

People called me crazy for saying Aldridge was better. Amare doesn't play defense and has no back to the basket game. This guy is a power player and his knees are going. The Suns with their reputation for helping keep players healthy didn't believe his microfracture knee is going to hold up.

Amare's contract is going to look really bad in a couple of seasons when the Knicks still haven't won anything.

[knickswin]

In the two previous games without Amare, Knicks held opponents to 91 ppg 39% FG

this is what people who don't watch the knicks that much don't understand. the reason the knicks are awful at defense is not all d'antoni's fault (and it's certainly not tyson chandler's . . . lol at that suggestion). it is because our power forward plays defense like a chair. a poorly positioned chair at that. we are forced to play 4 on 5 on defense and it is tough. a lot of the other "bad defenders" (dirk, scola) are not nearly as bad as amare. they will play team defense.

[airchibundo507]

Are you fcking crazy?
Lol. Gasol can score without being spoon fed by point guards. He can PASS. Hr can REBOUND. He can play DEFENSE. it's a no brainer the team would improve. he doesn't have Amare's health risk either

[bingo123]

In the two previous games without Amare, Knicks held opponents to 91 ppg 39% FG

So Amare is a bad defender? Because I remember one thread that you created where you praised both Amare and Melo how they improved their defense.

[knickswin]

People called me crazy for saying Aldridge was better. Amare doesn't play defense and has no back to the basket game. This guy is a power player and his knees are going. The Suns with their reputation for helping keep players healthy didn't believe his microfracture knee is going to hold up.

Amare's contract is going to look really bad in a couple of seasons when the Knicks still haven't won anything.

i wouldn't go that far. amare's knees don't worry me. it's him fitting in with tyson and carmelo that worries me. you can structure your team like the knicks were last year with a lot of shooters and be a playoff team with amare as your best player.

[airchibundo507]

So Amare is a bad defender? Because I remember one thread that you created where you praised both Amare and Melo how they improved their defense.
i made it after the first half of the celtics game, and the defense in that half was stellar by both. you can even watch it on YouTube for yourself. unfortunately amare wasn't able to sustain the effort

[Zenji]

Some might say its overreacting but the Knicks really should trade Amare before it is too late & no one wants him. Also hire Jerry Sloan asap.

[bingo123]

i made it after the first half of the celtics game, and the defense in that half was stellar by both. you can even watch it on YouTube for yourself. unfortunately amare wasn't able to sustain the effort

I watched it. It was more a bad first half by Cs than anything else. And everyone were telling you what Amare will do on defense in future but somehow you didnt listen and argued with all of us that he has improved.

[DStebb716]

Have you never heard of Bargnani? He'd be a terrible fit with Melo. Even worse than Amare.

[knickswin]

Have you never heard of Bargnani? He'd be a terrible fit with Melo. Even worse than Amare.

not really. bargnani is a very good shooter who can also play inside. unlike amare, he has a back to the basket game. i think he has a much more refined offensive repertoire than amare. he and carmelo could play off of each other well since they can both play on the perimeter and in the post. tyson and he wouldn't get in each other's way either.

i don't love bargnani because he's also a lame team defender and rebounder, plus i think he's kind of stupid about passing out of double teams (i've seen him look good at that though) but he'd be as good as we could get for amare.

[airchibundo507]

I watched it. It was more a bad first half by Cs than anything else. And everyone were telling you what Amare will do on defense in future but somehow you didnt listen and argued with all of us that he has improved.
Then I admit I was an idiot. i was just so excited with the Knicks halfcourt defense that half that I couldn't control myself

[bagelred]

Amare's contract is going to look really bad in a couple of seasons when the Knicks still haven't won anything.

His contract will be done by then.

[hawkfan]

He's untradeable because there is no insurance on his contract.

[macmac]

not really. bargnani is a very good shooter who can also play inside. unlike amare, he has a back to the basket game. i think he has a much more refined offensive repertoire than amare. he and carmelo could play off of each other well since they can both play on the perimeter and in the post. tyson and he wouldn't get in each other's way either.

i don't love bargnani because he's also a lame team defender and rebounder, plus i think he's kind of stupid about passing out of double teams (i've seen him look good at that though) but he'd be as good as we could get for amare.

Huh?

[el gringos]

Have you never heard of Bargnani? He'd be a terrible fit with Melo. Even worse than Amare.
Maybe you don't understand the word fit- Bargnani would fit perfectly next to Carmelo. Because Carmelo is the best inside/out 3 ever and Bargnani is an outside/in pf is why they'd fit together so well.
------
Not only would Bargnani be perfect between Carmelo and chandlewr, but the "throw in" that would have to come over might need to be a perfect fit- Calderon could be the perfect pg to run d'antonis sysatem

[knickswin]

He's untradeable because there is no insurance on his contract.

i think the wealthy teams can handle it. but there aren't many of those.

the amare-for-dwight-howard dreams that some knicks fans have are pretty much ridiculous, but they have a sliver of plausibility because the magic cannot tank because they have to pay off their arena and they are a team that is willing to spend a lot of money.

[Mamba]

bosh for stat. do it

even though bosh has been playing great lately, something tells me he's just gna fold again.

[RoseCity07]

His contract will be done by then.

I thought it was 5 years 100 million. He's been there one season.

[bluechox2]

the problem isnt amare,we need a pg who can pass

[knickswin]

bosh for stat. do it

even though bosh has been playing great lately, something tells me he's just gna fold again.

i'd do it, and i'm not even that big on chris bosh.

[bingo123]

bosh for stat. do it

even though bosh has been playing great lately, something tells me he's just gna fold again.

Pat would never do it.

[D-Wade316]

Fire the head coach. Amare needs a tough disciplinarian, not some sissy who does not care about defense. D'Antoni fitted well with the Suns because he had Nash running the point. Carmelo is slowly morphing into a point forward, from my observation, but he's not capable of running an efficient offense like Nash does.

[Jyap9675]

amare back to phoenix please

[L.Kizzle]

All I know is if you can't contend with Tyson Chandler, Amar'e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony, the players aren't the problem, it's the coaching.
Or maybe, just maybe the players are not that good. D'Antoni has took teams to the conference finals before mant times.

[blackification]

The problem with the Knicks is they have a shitty coach and no point guard. D'antoni is bad enough with a competent point guard doing his best to keep things in order take that out of the picture and it goes to shit as we are seeing here. Amare is the type of player that tries harder on D when he is doing well on O. He is a hot and cold kind of player at times when he is on and then they freeze him he shuts down. They need a point guard ASAP. D'antoni doesn't help either.

[All Net]

Didn't take Long from going to challenge the heat in preseason to trading amare two weeks in?

[kidachi]

I wanted to trade Amare too...









away from my fantasy team..

[knicksman]

amare is just not hitting jumpers. Once his jumper is back, he will be fine. What youre proposing is isiah type of trades. Trading for unproven players like curry, zbo, marbury, francis who hasnt gone deep in the playoffs. Ill trade melo first before amare coz amare has been proven more of a winner than melo.

[NumberSix]

I'd keep Bosh. I think he's starting to fit nicely in his role.

[Clutch]

Amare + Chandler for Dwight + Turkoglu.

GET IT DONE GRUNNIE

[blablabla]

we won't trade amare

[Teanett]

i want to trade everybody but amare.

[ALBballer]

I don't blame Amare, I blame the Melo trade. Ever since the trade went down their whole identity went with it. They traded Chandler ( who would've gone to China regardless), Gallo and Felton -- three players that fit the system well and worked well with Amare. They had a nice thing going. If the Knicks would've waited, they probably could of had Melo in the offseason or be in contentions to get Dwight Howard this year.

Not much you an do about it now. At this point, the Knicks should look to trade STAT for Gasol, that would be a good trade for both sides I think. Or even for Bargnani and Calderon. Stat and Melo can not coexist on the same team....

[Teanett]

may i quote?

......shut the **** up.

And by that I dont literally mean stop posting. And I dont even mean talk less. I am a hall of fame level windbag at times online and even in person...am one of the most verbose mother****ers you could encounter. But still I must say....


Some of these topics early this season has me wanting to kick down your doors and throw you in the torture rack till you tap and I refuse to break the hold.

Over the last couple decades ive heard a lot of early season idiocy. We all have. From Flip Murray>Ray Allen to Baron Davis for MVP to a 67 win team needed to be broken up because their playoff days are done(The Mavs started like 1-5 after making the finals). Ive heard that Drew gooden would be the best bigman in the NBA by now(look at his first few games...you will see why).

But this shit is a whole other level.

We are coming off a lockout. Like 20% of the NBA is visibly out of shape. Training camp was like 5 days and there are rookies playing who have only had like 5 workouts with the team and 2 preseason games. with the compressed schedule some teams will only have like 10-12 total days of planned practice for the SEASON.

There are still teams with players lost overseas scattered around the world....solid rotation players still free agents....at least one team is trying to implement elements learned from Oregon FOOTBALL that has only been worked on in coaches only scrimmages with 60 year old hall of famers and fat assistants playing the roles of Lebron and Wade.

We are 4 or 5 games into the season with only 2 preseason games.

Normally...the regular seasons begins after a month of practice, preseason games, and so on...and its not after 6 months of being locked out and 8 months after the last regular season ended...

This board is full of people of at least average mental ability who have the benefit of knowing all the above facts that point to the near irrelevancy of the first week of play...

And still....

We have people who actually use season averages to make a point as if 4 games of averages means anything(A guy like Kobe might average 55 for 4 games...or 18). have guys like rose, Wade, Kobe, CP3, Durant, Rondo, and Lebron either treated as gods are trash after one nights work.

After 2 games Kobe was back...after 5....hes Bynums sidekick.

Wade might no longer be elite.

The gotdamn Pacers are contenders...due to the #1 d...acquired by playing the Raptors, cavs, and Pistons....


I really cant believe some of this shit.

Id give anything to have a button to press to make someone climb through some of your windows and bust you in the head with a sack of doorknobs for some of these claims.

Even midseason runs in regular normal seasons dont mean shit. In 93 the Bulls lost 8 of 14 games at one point(including a game Jordan dropped 64 points)...

But 2 bad games in this situation...when the games being played would normally be preseason....after no off season....really no camp...tons of new systems being put in without being worked on...

Still....we find it possible to draw such solid conclusions.

Really?

[Nash]

bosh for stat. do it

even though bosh has been playing great lately, something tells me he's just gna fold again.
Obvious troll is obvious. You serious? Amare is injury prone, 2 years older and is not as good of a defender as Bosh.

[Nash]

I don't blame Amare, I blame the Melo trade. Ever since the trade went down their whole identity went with it. They traded Chandler ( who would've gone to China regardless), Gallo and Felton -- three players that fit the system well and worked well with Amare. They had a nice thing going. If the Knicks would've waited, they probably could of had Melo in the offseason or be in contentions to get Dwight Howard this year.

Not much you an do about it now. At this point, the Knicks should look to trade STAT for Gasol, that would be a good trade for both sides I think. Or even for Bargnani and Calderon. Stat and Melo can not coexist on the same team....
Yeah, I really don't get that. They should have kept their players and hoped to sign a superstar like Dwight in the summer of 2012.

Felton
Fields
Gallinari
Amare
Howard

Chandler
Mozgov

Would be much deeper.

[Funnyfuka]

amare 's offense is completely rendered useless by his defense. His strenghts are cancelled by his weaknesses cause he s a wanker who doesnt want to work on them.

This, and an utterly shity coach. It was a huge mistake to sacrifice so many players that were gelling together just for him. Bad investment.

He s playing for the money, not for the chip. As many nba players do.

[ALBballer]

It maybe harsh to trade STAT after a few games but if the Knicks have a chance to get a player like Pau Gasol then I'd do it in a heartbeat. Melo and STAT is not a long term solution nor will they win any championships together.

[airchibundo507]

amare 's offense is completely rendered useless by his defense. His strenghts are cancelled by his weaknesses cause he s a wanker who doesnt want to work on them.

This, and an utterly shity coach. It was a huge mistake to sacrifice so many players that were gelling together just for him. Bad investment.
wanker? lol. are you British?

I completely agree. he's only a scorer. he can't pass. he's a shit rebounder for his position. and he's the worst defender in basketball relative to his size an athleticism.

[Lebron23]

Orlando wants veteran players.

Tyson Chandler, Amare Stoudemire and Toney Douglas for Dwight Howard, Hedo Turkoglu and Jameer Nelson looks like a solid trade proposal.

C- Dwight Howard
F- Hedo Turkoglu
F- Carmelo Anthony
G- Jason Richardson
G- Iman Shumpert/Jameer Nelson

[guy]

I don't know why the Knicks aren't all over trying to trade for Howard. Amare for Howard at this point could probably be the best trade the Magic can get. The Knicks would beast then. Both Howard and Chandler can run the floor too so they should have no problem playing together. This team wouldn't even need a defensive coach with those two on the front.

[airchibundo507]

Orlando wants veteran players.

Tyson Chandler, Amare Stoudemire and Toney Douglas for Dwight Howard, Hedo Turkoglu and Jameer Nelson looks like a solid trade proposal.
I would wet my pants. Turkoglu has a shit contract, but at least he's a mismatch, he can run the pnr and spread the floor. Get this done!

[Clutch]

Orlando wants veteran players.

Tyson Chandler, Amare Stoudemire and Toney Douglas for Dwight Howard, Hedo Turkoglu and Jameer Nelson looks like a solid trade proposal.

C- Dwight Howard
F- Hedo Turkoglu
F- Carmelo Anthony
G- Jason Richardson
G- Iman Shumpert/Jameer Nelson

How did Jason Richardson magically appear on the Knicks roster ? :lol

Yeah,I would do that trade in a heartbeat.

Shumpert
Fields
Melo
Turkoglu
Dwight

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[derb2k2]

how does Amare not play defense ffs. :facepalm :facepalm

[rodman91]

Wasn't Knicks doing good until Melo trade?

[Bigsmoke]

I don't see it happening with him on this team. Amare is a niche player. He needs a good pg, incredible spacing, and the offense run for him to be a good enough scorer to make up for his other faults (defense, defense, defense). he does not have a post game, and he lacks finesse.

I would LOVE pau gasol, luis scola, or andrea bargnani. they are much better fits with carmelo. all excellent second options who wouldn't be LIABILITIES for their teams on defense.

and your defense will be better with Scola or bargnani :oldlol:

get off these international players dick

[Bigsmoke]

Amare always starts the season kinda for slow but :wtf: @ Chandler averaging even fewer rebounds than Amare and Melo. Isnt rebounding is why he is there for?

[1rkrage]

trade him for boozer and get back to me on the defense thing


watch boozer this year. 3 steals last night too.

[Teanett]

Amare always starts the season kinda for slow but :wtf: @ Chandler averaging even fewer rebounds than Amare and Melo. Isnt rebounding is why he is there for?

knicks are burned for believing chandler was good.
brendan haywood looks as good as chandler now.

[Clutch]

Wasn't Knicks doing good until Melo trade?
Not really.
Knicks had a huge run from middle November to middle of December.

Other than that they were .500 team at best,even worse.

They were 8-12 in the last 20 games before the Melo trade. After the Melo trade they were 14-14 (including 7 game winning streak).

[Teanett]

Not really.
Knicks had a huge run from middle November to middle of December.

Other than that they were .500 team at best,even worse.

They were 8-12 in the last 20 games before the Melo trade. After the Melo trade they were 14-14 (including 7 game winning streak).

still the best season by far since 10 years or so and 13 wins better than the year before. so yes, thats pretty darn good.

[Clutch]

still the best season by far since 10 years or so and 13 wins better than the year before. so yes, thats pretty darn good.
His question was "were they doing good ?" translated to "were they better off without Melo ?"

My answer is they weren't.

Besides that huge run when Amare put up 30+ points regularly Knicks were slightly below .500 team.
That's what they were with Melo too.

Melo isn't the problem on this team.
Actually he's the only player who meets the expectations.
Others have been subpar.
Shumpert exceeds them but he only played 2 games.

[Teanett]

His question was "were they doing good ?" translated to "were they better off without Melo ?"

My answer is they weren't.

Besides that huge run when Amare put up 30+ points regularly Knicks were slightly below .500 team.
That's what they were with Melo too.

Melo isn't the problem on this team.
Actually he's the only player who meets the expectations.
Others have been subpar.
Shumpert exceeds them but he only played 2 games.

but they also werent better with him.
but they sureley were better with amare than without.

[brahmabull117]

Well sooner or later the personnel has to be held accountable, even if it doesnt start from the top down with the coach, it COULD start from the players but i doubt it is. I guarantee u that amare isnt in practice yelling at people to play defense... Pau might end up doing that. Melo and baron might agree. Idk.

I think all teams would at least be on the right path with that trade.. I like it a lot. Idk what LA would do with howard/bynum at PF , makes no sense, but NY def gets better and Orl gets themselves a flashy all star on a team that has a PG and shooters



If you really think NBA players will force each other to play defense, I would really like to try some of the stuff that you're smoking



look at the bulls - they went from an average defensive team to the best in basketball in 1 year just because they hired a coach who knew what he was doing

[bagelred]

I don't see it happening with him on this team. Amare is a niche player. He needs a good pg, incredible spacing, and the offense run for him to be a good enough scorer to make up for his other faults (defense, defense, defense). he does not have a post game, and he lacks finesse.

I would LOVE pau gasol, luis scola, or andrea bargnani. they are much better fits with carmelo. all excellent second options who wouldn't be LIABILITIES for their teams on defense.

6 games, eh? Giving up that quickly?

I wonder if Knicks were 4 -2 instead of 2 - 4 if you'd feel the same way.

[Blue&Orange]

Amare was having 9 turnovers a game in the beginning of the last season, i think he is already doing better this year.


But yeah the Honeymoon is over, Melo and Amare better start to deliver.

[Teanett]

keep in mind they only played 40 games together and never had training camp together.

[Gundress]

Like I said.....the Melo trade was just stupid to me.

The old Knicks was way better than new Knicks.

[guy]

keep in mind they only played 40 games together and never had training camp together.

Lots of teams right now have that problem to an extent and they still shouldn't lose to teams like Toronto and Charlotte at home.

[Mr. Jabbar]

and I don't blame you

[Clutch]

Lots of teams right now have that problem to an extent. They still shouldn't lose to teams like Toronto and Charlotte at home.
I agree.
Losing to Raptors and Bobcats who were on a second night of back-to-back AT HOME is simply unacceptable.

[Teanett]

I agree.
Losing to Raptors and Bobcats who were on a second night of back-to-back AT HOME is simply unacceptable.

idk, you have a bunch of scrubs (and a confused landry) and you're three stars have played together for three weeks. back2back doesnt mean much. the knicks just came home from the west coast. it happens.

[Dwade305]

Who is this 3rd star?

[Done_And_Done]

Without hijacking the thread or derailing it - all I wanna say is that as a Raptors fan, to hear someone insinuate that Bargniani is not a defensive liability comes off as VERY comical to me. Simply because he's been ripped to shreds from the media and fans for years on the basis of his weak sauce defending + demeanor...

That is all

[TheBluest]

Like I said.....the Melo trade was just stupid to me.

The old Knicks was way better than new Knicks.


There is a lot of truth to this. The debate was the former team lacked a closer superstar in nature or an elite orchestrator to run the offense, therefore the team needed to sacrifice at all cost to get one if not both.

Well this kind of thinking was severely flawed from the jump. Last year's team was a new assembly of parts added to a few mainstays but how patient was the fan base with the team? Not much at all because this idiotic fan base was shortsighted and horny as they knew Melo was available. Now ask yourself had Melo had 2yrs remaining on his deal in Denver would the Knicks been looking to make a move at all cost? No they wouldn't have. They would have made possibly minimal to modest moves at the deadline

1 Move Anthony Randolph as he was a misfit for D'Antoni

2 Move Chandler out of fear to re-sign him or lack of wanting to in the summer

That's it or we would have rode with that team as they were 28-26 heading towards the playoffs at the time and the current team since acquiring Melo is 16-18......(technically 16-22)including the playoffs.... currently a lottery team with Top 5 protection on pick going to Houston. Do the math. They aren't better. The previous team had room to grow as their youth suggested it did

So how long does this current team get? Oh but of course the same irrational fan base will continue to borrow time and suggest the team needs it to gel. Please stop with this stalling tactic excuse....WE HAVE 2 SUPERSTARS NOW.....NO THEY DON'T DESERVE ANYMORE TIME.

Keep borrowing time because before you know it this team will have played 54gms and the record won't be any better than 28-26

[knickswin]

may i quote?

no, i've had my doubts about amare as a championship piece for a while. this isn't me overreacting to a few games. there aren't too many champions who play like him that i can think of. he doesn't pass or make his teammates better. he doesn't do the little things. he doesn't defend. he doesn't rebound well or box out. what he does is scores, but even as a scorer he's limited. he can face-up at the elbow and in the mid range, he can finish pick and rolls, and he can run off of curls (mostly shooting around the free throw line). which championship big men played like that? tim duncan? kevin garnett? shaq? dirk? even rasheed wallace gave you defense, a post game, rebounding, and some intangibles.

i was hoping that he would come into this season with a new attitude considering the scoring is now on carmelo's shoulders. but it's same ol' same ol' with amare. nothing's changed except now the offense isn't being run in the way that's flattering to him, so he's not putting up good scoring numbers either. i am disappointed with how d'antoni is trying to force our old offense on this roster and make amare a spot-up shooter on the wing, so amare's struggles are not entirely his fault, but i'm having a hard time thinking of a system that could incorporate carmelo, tyson, and amare, and amare is the weak link to me. there are a lot of power forwards in this league who can score well enough and not suck as badly as he does on defense.

[knickswin]

Without hijacking the thread or derailing it - all I wanna say is that as a Raptors fan, to hear someone insinuate that Bargniani is not a defensive liability comes off as VERY comical to me. Simply because he's been ripped to shreds from the media and fans for years on the basis of his weak sauce defending + demeanor...

That is all

he is a defensive liability and even more of a rebounding liability. for sure. just not as bad as amare who seriously has a case for worst starting defender in the league. i would want bargnani more because his offensive game fits perfectly with tyson and carmelo.

[Rekindled]

Who is this 3rd star?

iman shumpert

[Teanett]

Keep borrowing time because before you know it this team will have played 54gms and the record won't be any better than 28-26

that's what one should expect from this team.

[wang4three]

it really isn't, and i'm not basing this on one game. you have to understand, amare is a limited player, even on offense. he doesn't have a back to the basket game. he doesn't not have exceptional handle which means he frequently turns the ball over when he faces up. he does not have great basketball iq. he is a good shooter and he is a good finisher off of pick and rolls IF he has a point guard who can hit him properly and has the spacing he needs which is IMPOSSIBLE with tyson and carmelo on this team.

on defense he is a disaster.

You're overreacting. You want to go for Andrea Bargnani. Bargnani. What does he have that's so wildy greater than Amare? Back to the basket? Not really, he's still a face-up big man. Defender? Atrocious, no lateral movement, not a real shot blocker, and last year the Raptors let opponents shoot 47% in the paint. That's the worst in the league. Yet you want to trade for this guy? He's a career 44% shooter and this guy is your answer to defense? And he has a pass-first point guard in Calderon. And don't let me get into Scola who's turning 32 this year so you'd have maybe 1-2 years left of what he has left.

You must be out of your ****ing mind. It's good thing you don't run the Knicks. You're in panic mode cause of some early season troubles. No one said it was going to be easy. When the Heat were struggling at .500 at the beginning of the season last year, you'd be the Heat fan screaming to trade LeBron for Danny Granger or Rudy Gay. Calm the **** down.

[wang4three]

Maybe you don't understand the word fit- Bargnani would fit perfectly next to Carmelo. Because Carmelo is the best inside/out 3 ever and Bargnani is an outside/in pf is why they'd fit together so well.
------
Not only would Bargnani be perfect between Carmelo and chandlewr, but the "throw in" that would have to come over might need to be a perfect fit- Calderon could be the perfect pg to run d'antonis sysatem


Says the guy who said that Avery Bradley was a top 2 pick in the '10 draft. You wouldn't know fit nor judge of talent if it hit you.

[Yung D-Will]

I hope you know that if you're staying Amare is a worse defender than Andrea B thats a pretty big statement

[TheBluest]

that's what one should expect from this team.


Well yes and no

Expectations should be higher than 28-26 and I'm talking before the lockout ended. The sacrifice was far too great to expect less

but

Reality suggest we are going to be no better at best than 28-26. So one must humbly accept this

I for one never thought this team was going to be better before the Melo trade was consummated. Sorry you still have to win with a TEAM

[knickswin]

I hope you know that if you're staying Amare is a worse defender than Andrea B thats a pretty big statement

i know andrea is not a good defender. he is okay at defending post ups, but he is a lame team and perimeter defender. i know that. amare is even worse though. amare might be the worst team defender in the nba. he doesn't have a clue how to hedge pick and rolls. he doesn't have a clue about when to pick up another player's man. he doesn't have a clue about rotating.

the reason i would want bargnani is his offensive game fits perfectly with melo and chandler. no one would get in the other's way and we'd have two guys with post games and diverse offensive games overall. also, he is young. i like pau and scola more, but they are both in their thirties.

[Clutch]

I wouldn't trade Amare for Bargnani.

I would trade him either for a true superstar like Dwight or maybe for a bunch of solid players who could make us relatively deep team.

[Killbot]

i know andrea is not a good defender. he is okay at defending post ups, but he is a lame team and perimeter defender. i know that. amare is even worse though. amare might be the worst team defender in the nba. he doesn't have a clue how to hedge pick and rolls. he doesn't have a clue about when to pick up another player's man. he doesn't have a clue about rotating.

the reason i would want bargnani is his offensive game fits perfectly with melo and chandler. no one would get in the other's way and we'd have two guys with post games and diverse offensive games overall. also, he is young. i like pau and scola more, but they are both in their thirties.

You are seriously overrating Bargnani. There's a reason Raptors fans are willing to give him away for basically nothing.

[step_back]

Knicks need a legit playmaker. They should trade for Nash. Him and Amar'e were one of the best 1-2 punches in the NBA. With Carmelo on the wing you have a great team.

Defence though...... you're still ****ed there i'm afraid.

[TheBluest]

I wouldn't trade Amare for Bargnani.

I would trade him either for a true superstar like Dwight or maybe for a bunch of solid players who could make us relatively deep team.


Amar'e/Shump/Douglas

for

Andre Miller/Chandler/Gallo/Mozgov/Corey Brewer

[Clutch]

Amar'e/Shump/Douglas

for

Andre Miller/Chandler/Gallo/Mozgov/Corey Brewer
Maybe. I don't know,it's a tough decision.

I would like to keep Shumpert.

Baron / Miller / Bibby
Fields / Brewer / Walker
Melo / Gallo / Balkman
W.Chandler / Harrellson / Novak
T.Chandler / Mozgov / Jordan or Jeffries

This seems like a deep team,but we're still short on the power forward spot and really old at point guard.
Also we wouldn't have natural starting power forward on the roster. Wilson Chandler can play it but he's undersized.

[knickswin]

You are seriously overrating Bargnani. There's a reason Raptors fans are willing to give him away for basically nothing.

he has his faults, but he is a skilled player. he's not a "superstar." he's not consistent enough.

but i don't care about loading up on superstars. we have carmelo anthony. he is best player on a championship team material. that's enough of a starting point. you get bargnani because his and carmelo's games complement each other's very well.

the tyson, bargnani, carmelo front court makes sense. you have carmelo and bargnani who can both play on the perimeter and in the post working off each other in multiple ways. tyson does what he do which is get hustle points and easy looks at the rim when he can.

the tyson, amare, carmelo front court doesn't make sense. tyson gets in amare's way. amare doesn't operate in the post, he operates in the paint. so does tyson. tyson lacks a jump shot to draw defenders out of the paint which forces amare to either have to score over multiple defenders or be relegated to a jump shooter. either amare develops a post game or tyson develops a baseline jump shot or it doesn't work.

[TheBluest]

Maybe. I don't know,it's a tough decision.

I would like to keep Shumpert.

Baron / Miller / Bibby
Fields / Brewer / Walker
Melo / Gallo / Balkman
W.Chandler / Harrellson / Novak
T.Chandler / Mozgov / Jordan or Jeffries

This seems like a deep team,but we're still short on the power forward spot and really old at point guard.
Also we wouldn't have natural starting power forward on the roster. Wilson Chandler can play it but he's undersized.


Well I was being facetious with the trade offer showing how it would essentially be a reverse Melo trade but Miller would clearly start over Baron....the rest is debatable but Gallo probably starts somewhere too.

or my other suggestion as I was discussing with a friend of mine is to trade him to the Rockets

Amar'e/Shump/Douglas

for

Martin/Jordan Hill/Terrence Williams/$3.5mil Trade Exception

We're probably not going to move Amar'e by himself he has an uninsured deal and it will require teams asking for one of our young pieces

[guy]

Do Knick fans think you'd be better off with Carlos Boozer? Better rebounder and doesn't necessarily need to score as much. Cause as a Bulls fan, I'd gladly do the swap. :rockon:

[Clutch]

Well I was being facetious with the trade offer show how it would essentially be a reverse Melo trade but Miller would clearly start over Baron....the rest is debatable but Gallo probably starts somewhere too.
I understood that.
But Melo is better than Amare.

Still,I would rather do some trade where we could get a solid defensive/rebounding power forward and a few solid bench players.

Maybe Amare for Bass+Ray Allen+Pietrus. (I don't know how would salaries match).

Celtics get someone to pair with Rondo (deadly pick and roll).
Knicks get a solid defender/rebounder in Bass who is also a very good offensive player,a deadly shooter in Ray Allen and a very good defender in Pietrus.

Still,it's just speculation.I don't know would I do that trade and I don't know would both teams accept that.

Baron / Douglas / Bibby
Allen / Shumpert / Fields
Melo / Pietrus / Walker
Bass / Novak / Balkman
Chandler / Harrellson / Jeffries

If I was going to trade Amare I would surely wait for the end of the season.

[knickswin]

Do Knick fans think you'd be better off with Carlos Boozer? Better rebounder and doesn't necessarily need to score as much. Cause as a Bulls fan, I'd gladly do the swap. :rockon:

no. i don't want to just trade amare for anybody. i want to trade amare for someone who makes sense. boozer doesn't make sense for us.

[Clutch]

Do Knick fans think you'd be better off with Carlos Boozer? Better rebounder and doesn't necessarily need to score as much. Cause as a Bulls fan, I'd gladly do the swap. :rockon:
No thanks.
Boozer is a better rebounder but he's still a poor defender and worse on offense than Amare.

Like I said,I would only trade Amare for a legit superstar like Dwight or for multiple good players who fit our needs so we could be a deep and well balanced team.

[knicksman]

amare 's offense is completely rendered useless by his defense. His strenghts are cancelled by his weaknesses cause he s a wanker who doesnt want to work on them.

This, and an utterly shity coach. It was a huge mistake to sacrifice so many players that were gelling together just for him. Bad investment.

He s playing for the money, not for the chip. As many nba players do.

If he has no impact then the suns should be in the conference finals still.

[knicksman]

Knicks need a legit playmaker. They should trade for Nash. Him and Amar'e were one of the best 1-2 punches in the NBA. With Carmelo on the wing you have a great team.

Defence though...... you're still ****ed there i'm afraid.

This and we already have davis. Even if we didnt get davis, we can wait for 1 more year to get nash. But instead they panic thinking this team needs to win now when this a 5 year plan and they already got a complete starting 5 in their first year and a sixth man in kmart waiting for chinese season to be over.

[TheBluest]

If he has no impact then the suns should be in the conference finals still.


You realize they got that far at one point during their run without Amar'e as he recovered from microfracture surgery? Guess who fulfilled his role? The fat (brazilian/frenchman?) who kicked his arse yesterday at MSG

[Teanett]

You realize they got that far at one point during their run without Amar'e as he recovered from microfracture surgery? Guess who fulfilled his role? The fat (brazilian/frenchman?) who kicked his arse yesterday at MSG

haha, true.

[knicksman]

You realize they got that far at one point during their run without Amar'e as he recovered from microfracture surgery? Guess who fulfilled his role? The fat (brazilian/frenchman?) who kicked his arse yesterday at MSG

are they contenders at that time?No, they struggled against lakers and clippers. It was more of a lucky run. BTW they missed the playoffs in 2009 and last season.

[heyhey]

Maybe. I don't know,it's a tough decision.

I would like to keep Shumpert.

Baron / Miller / Bibby
Fields / Brewer / Walker
Melo / Gallo / Balkman
W.Chandler / Harrellson / Novak
T.Chandler / Mozgov / Jordan or Jeffries

This seems like a deep team,but we're still short on the power forward spot and really old at point guard.
Also we wouldn't have natural starting power forward on the roster. Wilson Chandler can play it but he's undersized.

all that team would do is chuck more threes than we already do now

[Clutch]

all that team would do is chuck more threes than we already do now
D'Antoni will be gone after this season,maybe even sooner.

That team looks very good on paper,especially if Shumpert stays.

Bench unit of Baron/Fields/Gallo/Harrellson/Mozgov would be one of the best in the league,if not the best.
Scorers in Baron and Gallo,glue guy in Fields and big bodies of Harrellson and Mozgov in the middle.

Also starting lineup of Miller/Shumpert/Melo/W.Chandler/Tyson is pretty good defensively,especially with a real coach.