Replace Lebron With Kobe on the Cavs from 06-10

[SilkkTheShocker]

How many titles do the Cavs win? I personally say 0. I think they would actually get worse. And the Cavs had no elite big men for him to play with.

[Andrei89]

0 titles for fail kobe

chuck 30 shots per game and lose in the first round.

Then attempt 50 game winners and make only 10.

After that "Kobe da GAWD he made 10 game winners this season"

*cough* on 50 attempts *cough*

6/28
6/24

U mad Kobe?

http://wwww.goodgame.ru/datas/galleries/79699_4cv9b_big.gif

[Foster5k]

Kobe would ask for a trade by mid-season of 06.

[pauk]

lmao.... they would not be in the ECF/Finals ever.. i can tell you that... but i wouldnt even worry about that, kobe would demand a trade after 1-2 seasons

[Lebron23]

0


Early 1990's Jordan, 1994 Hakeem and Prime Shaq are the only NBA players that I can see win an NBA title with that Cavaliers team.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Kobe would ask for a trade by mid-season of 06.

Pretty much. Odom was better than anyone on the 06 Cavs roster himself. After that you are splitting hairs debating between Smush Parker or Eric Snow's corpse

[kidachi]

First of all, I don't know if Kobe would've stayed from 06-10.. he'd at the every least ask for a trade.

anyway, I think it'll be something like LeBron did.. have a great record and may have been beaten by the Cs in the conf. finals or semi-finals..

Maybe Kobe would've scored more than LeBron.. I just can't say if he would've carried them farther.. the supporting cast was too weak

[francesco totti]

He wouldnt have done better. Kobe would have offered more points IMO, but Lebron covered more deficiencies of that team in big men ( rebounding) and playmaking (assists).

[Miserio]

He starts crying and the cavs bring Pau Gasol so he can carry Kobe to a chip.

[pegasus]

At least one ring in 2009, and much better PPG all four years. Remember, we're talking about prime Kobe here (06-10).

Give Kobe that great defensive team full of shooters and good role players, he would beat Orlando and then whomever they would face in the finals. If it's Lebron's Lakers, then you know Lebron would turn Gasol into a total scrub by then like he always does to good players, so there's no way he could beat the Cavs (w/ Kobe) in the finals.

How about this: would the Heat win it all last year with Kobe instead of Lebron? I say yes, although Kobe was not 100%.

[Andrei89]

At least one ring in 2009, and much better PPG all four years. Remember, we're talking about prime Kobe here (06-10).

Give Kobe that great defensive team full of shooters and good role players, he would beat Orlando and then whomever they would face in the finals. If it's Lebron's Lakers, then you know Lebron would turn Gasol into a total scrub by then like he always does to good players, so there's no way he could beat the Cavs (w/ Kobe) in the finals.

How about this: would the Heat win it all last year with Kobe instead of Lebron? I say yes, although Kobe was not 100%.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[blablabla]

the guy led the kwame lakers to the ps
give him a great defensive team and let him run the offense and they would have a chance at making the finals twice(07 & 09)
it would be similar to sixers in 01

[All Net]

I'm not sure even MJ could win a title with those rosters...

[eliteballer]

You clowns are going to compare playing with Smush, Kwame, Walton etc. in the West...... to Hughes, Gooden, Mo Williams, Varajeo Big Z, Boozer, Jamison reliable rebounding bigs, shooters, PG's in the East etc?


:rolleyes: Really

Lets not act like leBron was playing on Carter Raptors, Tmacs Magic, AI's Sixers etc.

[Kurosawa0]

Zero. Adding Kobe in a swap for LeBron doesn't make the Cavs remotely better than the teams they lost to in those years.

[SilkkTheShocker]

At least one ring in 2009, and much better PPG all four years. Remember, we're talking about prime Kobe here (06-10).

Give Kobe that great defensive team full of shooters and good role players, he would beat Orlando and then whomever they would face in the finals. If it's Lebron's Lakers, then you know Lebron would turn Gasol into a total scrub by then like he always does to good players, so there's no way he could beat the Cavs (w/ Kobe) in the finals.

How about this: would the Heat win it all last year with Kobe instead of Lebron? I say yes, although Kobe was not 100%.

Most would disagree with you about your stance on Lebron's former teammates being "good". But I appreciate all the though you put in your answer.

[SilkkTheShocker]

You clowns are going to compare playing with Smush, Kwame, Walton etc. in the West...... to Hughes, Gooden, Mo Williams, Varajeo Big Z, Boozer, Jamison reliable rebounding bigs, shooters, PG's in the East etc?


:rolleyes: Really

Lets not act like leBron was playing on Carter Raptors, Tmacs Magic, AI's Sixers etc.

Boozer played with Lebron for only his rookie season. Utah gave him a huge contract in 04.

[knightfall88]

Kobe could win with Jamison, Varejao, Z, Delonte, Mo Will, Boobie. Firstly they are stacked in the guards so they can trade that for some front court strength since you dont need anyone in the backcourt when you have Kobe. And no big really can play well with Lebron, even Bosh has limited his game.

One thing for sure, Kobe would have not averaged 17ppg with Wade and Bosh in the finals. He would have had a championship with Lebron's heat easily.

[Kurosawa0]

You clowns are going to compare playing with Smush, Kwame, Walton etc. in the West

Why is it when people try to make this point they always leave out Lamar Odom? At no point did LeBron play with anyone the Lakers would've traded Lamar Odom for.

[JohnnySic]

Remember when people thought the Cavs would beat, even sweep the Celtics in '10? And then the C's chased LeBron out of town, essentially killing the franchise and sinking Cleveland's economy? Those were some serious good times. :cheers:

[rodman91]

Zero. Probably no finals as well.

[INDI]

Hate me if you want but I say he would have won 1. It's not about having other stars, it's about having role players that love their role and the cavs was a perfect fit. They had Shaq who had a little something left and still the biggest player in the league, big Z, boobie who was like a poor mans Jason Terry, varejao the most active role player in the league, great wing defender in moon, another three point specialist in Parker, also a 20 and 10 power forward in Jamison.


Notice the thread starter never said lebron had to be on the lakers, just about Kobe being on the cavs so the cavs would have faced the suns in the finals. Overall the 09-10 cavs had the perfect role players for any star. So regular season lebron would have done better but post season Kobe wouldve got the job done

[Lebron23]

LeBron actually put up better numbers than Kobe againts the same opponents ( 08 Celtics, 09 Magic, and '10 Celtics). Lebron averaged 38-9-9 againts the Orlando magic, but the Magic still beat them in 6 games because Mo Williams was not even a reliable 2nd option.

[nathanjizzle]

how are heat fans so sure, when they were epically wrong about last season.

[The_Yearning]

0


Early 1990's Jordan, 1994 Hakeem and Prime Shaq are the only NBA players that I can see win an NBA title with that Cavaliers team.

Jordan and Hakeem maybe... Shaq is no. Whose going to be the closer and who will Shaq rely on from double teams??

[Quickening]

Jordan only won with stacked team so I doubt he would win with that Cavs outfit.... same goes for Kobe.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Some keep saying Lebron played with the "perfect" role players. But what people are forgetting that's the Cavs were. 1 super star and a bunch of role players. There was no legit 2nd option and they have no inside scoring aside from one year of shaq. Who miss 1/3 of the season. So do think Kobe could take a Cavs team to the title that had a supporting cast more similar to the 94 Rockers than the 2010 Lakers? I really don't see it. Especially when Kobe has been heavily reliant on elite big men to help advance him further in the playoffs.

[RRR3]

I fail to see how Kobe could do as well as lbj did with the cavs let alone top it. Lebron is better at carrying weak teams IMO.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Jordan and Hakeem maybe... Shaq is no. Whose going to be the closer and who will Shaq rely on from double teams??


Agreed. If Shaq fouls out than you are relying on Larry Hughes (06-08) or Mo Williams (08-10) to carry the offense.

[eliteballer]

Especially when Kobe has been heavily reliant on elite big men to help advance him further in the playoffs.

No team goes deep in the playoffs WITHOUT elite big men:facepalm

[RRR3]

No team goes deep in the playoffs WITHOUT elite big men:facepalm
07 cavs

[eliteballer]

Big Z/Gooden in the 07 Eastern Conference: Elite

[Sakkreth]

Isn't Mo Williams like 5-6th option on his current team ? On a team that's not really contending as well...

[Quickening]

What was the drop off in wins the year Lebron left the Cavs?

Chicago barely had a drop off when MJ took a break..... Lebron best at carrying weak teams in history.

[RRR3]

Big Z/Gooden in the 07 Eastern Conference: Elite
Lol that must be why they didn't make all-star teams or all-nba right?

[Legends66NBA7]

Lol that must be why they didn't make all-star teams or all-nba right?

Big Z made all star teams. But yeah, they weren't "elite".

Drew Gooden was projected to be the best big man in the game by now because of his first week/month of his career.

I would say they were some what overrated.

[RRR3]

Big Z made all star teams.
I know. Im taking strictly 07 tho

[All Net]

Big Z/Gooden in the 07 Eastern Conference: Elite

What?

[Legends66NBA7]

I know. Im taking strictly 07 tho

True.

They were solid players, but mostly one-dimensional (offensive minded players).

[SilkkTheShocker]

Big Z/Gooden in the 07 Eastern Conference: Elite
:roll:

[eliteballer]

07 Cavs playoffs opponent big men:

Nets: Nenad Krstic/Mikki Moore
Wizards: Jamison
Pistons: Sheed/Broken down Webber

Not exactly the 90's West, thats why they got swept when they ran into a real big man

[Sakkreth]

True.

They were solid players, but mostly one-dimensional (offensive minded players).

Big Z was just slow due his feet problems on defense and that doesn't transition well into defense, early in his career he was ok defender and good shot blocker.

[SilkkTheShocker]

07 Cavs playoffs opponent big men: Ko

Nets: Nenad Krstic/Mikki Moore
Wizards: Jamison
Pistons: Sheed/Broken down Webber

Not exactly the 90's West, thats why they got swept when they ran into a real big man

Kind of like how the Lakers lost when they ran into Boris Diaw and Kurt Thomas right? :roll:

[pegasus]

Most would disagree with you about your stance on Lebron's former teammates being "good". But I appreciate all the though you put in your answer.

Yes, but those are the same people who were saying the Cavs would beat the Magic in 5 or 6 games in 2009 (including all of the experts). I remember only Barkley saying that the Magic would beat the Cavs, and Chris Webber almost fell off his chair laughing and said "in basketball?".

It was the same last year. Everybody was talking about how Miami was gonna blow the Mavs out, but after the series, it was "they didn't have a C, they didn't have a PG", etc.

[LakersReign]

Yes, but those are the same people who were saying the Cavs would beat the Magic in 5 or 6 games in 2009 (including all of the experts). I remember only Barkley saying that the Magic would beat the Cavs, and Chris Webber almost fell off his chair laughing and said "in basketball?".

It was the same last year. Everybody was talking about how Miami was gonna blow the Mavs out, but after the series, it was "they didn't have a C, they didn't have a PG", etc.


I was just about to say the same thing. In addition, those are the same people who jumped the bandwagon the minute Lebron left Cleveland

[HelterSkelter]

ZERO, DEAL WITH IT.

He'll do as great as LeBron though. But no one would've won with that cast.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Yes, but those are the same people who were saying the Cavs would beat the Magic in 5 or 6 games in 2009 (including all of the experts). I remember only Barkley saying that the Magic would beat the Cavs, and Chris Webber almost fell off his chair laughing and said "in basketball?".

It was the same last year. Everybody was talking about how Miami was gonna blow the Mavs out, but after the series, it was "they didn't have a C, they didn't have a PG", etc.

The thing is, for all of Lebron's shortcomings, its really hard to fault him for 09. You can give him blame in 10 or 11 definitely and he had some crappy games in 08. But if you watch the Magic series, his supporting cast absolutely left him out to dry. The whole bench got outplayed by Pietrus and Big Z got ass raped by Dwight. Kobe is a beast, top 10 player ever. Not a fan of his, but I'm not a delusional hater where I can't give him credit. But do you think he could of played better than Lebron to the point the Cavs could have won that series?

[Legends66NBA7]

Big Z was just slow due his feet problems on defense and that doesn't transition well into defense, early in his career he was ok defender and good shot blocker.

Yeah, that's true too. Young Z was a better defender before the injuries.

Kind off like Sabonis for the Blazers, although with his injuries and all, didn't slow him down all that much on defense.

[Clippersfan86]

The Cavs obviously do worse. Lebron's all around game is superior to Kobe's and more suitable for having an impact in every aspect to carry teams. Kobe obviously carried the scoring load for 2 years for the Lakers (when he had no help) and they didn't get far. Missed playoffs one year... 8th seed and first round elimination other.

Lebron James is one of maybe 5 other players in NBA history that have enough all around talent to flat out carry teams. I'd place him there with Jordan, Bird, Shaq, Duncan and Hakeem for starters when talking about such great all around talent that he alone can get you to the finals or deep playoffs.

Kobe hasn't proven he can do that. The Lakers didn't get good again until the Gasol heist. That's not to say Kobe isn't incredible or top 10 all time etc. Just means putting him on the Cavs would be a big downgrade based on how Cleveland played, his teammates etc.

[pegasus]

The thing is, for all of Lebron's shortcomings, its really hard to fault him for 09. You can give him blame in 10 or 11 definitely and he had some crappy games in 08. But if you watch the Magic series, his supporting cast absolutely left him out to dry. The whole bench got outplayed by Pietrus and Big Z got ass raped by Dwight. Kobe is a beast, top 10 player ever. Not a fan of his, but I'm not a delusional hater where I can't give him credit. But do you think he could of played better than Lebron to the point the Cavs could have won that series?

Lebron had slightly better numbers vs the Magic that year, but I believe Kobe played better. He set the tone in the first game with 40/8/8 and played great defense all series long. That's something Lebron couldn't do against the Magic. He should have been able to guard either Hedo or Lewis, but instead, they both had great series.

Here are Kobe's series-by-series numbers for 2009 playoffs:

- UTH: 40.8 min, 27.4 pts - 5.0 reb - 5.6 ast, .466 FG - .897 FT
- HOU: 37.9 min, 27.4 pts - 5.0 reb - 3.7 ast, .453 FG - .833 FT
- DEN: 42.0 min, 34.0 pts - 5.8 reb - 5.8 ast, .481 FG - .931 FT
- ORL: 43.8 min, 32.4 pts - 5.6 reb - 7.4 ast, .430 FG - .841 FT
- TOTAL: 40.9 min, 30.2 pts - 5.3 reb - 5.5 ast, .457 FG - .883 FT

Seeing what he did against the much stronger West teams, I have no doubt in my mind that they would have made the finals and beat either Denver or LA with Lebron instead.

And let's not act like that LA team back in 2009 was stacked with talent. Bynum wasn't what he is now (plus, he was injured IIRC, averaging only about 20mpg and 6ppg).

Odom was the only good player coming off the bench, and he averaged 13ppg.

Luke frigging Walton averaged 15 mpg in that series. Tell me he is not worse than any player Cleveland has ever had during Lebron's tenure there.

The other players coming off the bench were Farmar and Vujacic. Again, tell me if they are better than Anthony Parker, Mo, Delonte West, etc.?

And players like Ariza and Gasol are the type of players that Lebron has reduced to ineffective role players in his career. So I can't see them having similar performances playing next to Lebron (especially back in 2009 when he was playing ISO ball 24/7).

[KingJames99]

The cast Lebron had in Cleveland was horrible no one would have been able to win a title with them.

[SilkkTheShocker]

The cast Lebron had in Cleveland was horrible no one would have been able to win a title with them.

KG and Wilt maybe?

[AlphaWolf24]

The cast Lebron had in Cleveland was horrible no one would have been able to win a title with them.


The Cast Lebron had in Miami is the most stacked team in NBA History and he still lost....

what's your point???


basketball Math FAIL!!







Cleveland had Big Z who was an allstar....SHAQ....Ben Wallace....Twan (who was puttin up 27PPG 6reb)....MO....Varajao....

and won 65 games!!!! and had the best record in the NBA!!


Kobe would easily have won 2 - 3 Titles with that supporting cast...he's already done it with a inferior team.:confusedshrug:

[trabash]

Kobe would probably not even get to the playoffs with that team

[Mr. Jabbar]

they could go from 0 chips to at least one maybe, who knows, all we know for sure is lequit gave em nothing and ditched cleveland as a pregnant hooker :oldlol:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Lebron had slightly better numbers vs the Magic that year, but I believe Kobe played better. He set the tone in the first game with 40/8/8 and played great defense all series long. That's something Lebron couldn't do against the Magic. He should have been able to guard either Hedo or Lewis, but instead, they both had great series.

Here are Kobe's series-by-series numbers for 2009 playoffs:

- UTH: 40.8 min, 27.4 pts - 5.0 reb - 5.6 ast, .466 FG - .897 FT
- HOU: 37.9 min, 27.4 pts - 5.0 reb - 3.7 ast, .453 FG - .833 FT
- DEN: 42.0 min, 34.0 pts - 5.8 reb - 5.8 ast, .481 FG - .931 FT
- ORL: 43.8 min, 32.4 pts - 5.6 reb - 7.4 ast, .430 FG - .841 FT
- TOTAL: 40.9 min, 30.2 pts - 5.3 reb - 5.5 ast, .457 FG - .883 FT

Seeing what he did against the much stronger West teams, I have no doubt in my mind that they would have made the finals and beat either Denver or LA with Lebron instead.

And let's not act like that LA team back in 2009 was stacked with talent. Bynum wasn't what he is now (plus, he was injured IIRC, averaging only about 20mpg and 6ppg).

Odom was the only good player coming off the bench, and he averaged 13ppg.

Luke frigging Walton averaged 15 mpg in that series. Tell me he is not worse than any player Cleveland has ever had during Lebron's tenure there.

The other players coming off the bench were Farmar and Vujacic. Again, tell me if they are better than Anthony Parker, Mo, Delonte West, etc.?

And players like Ariza and Gasol are the type of players that Lebron has reduced to ineffective role players in his career. So I can't see them having similar performances playing next to Lebron (especially back in 2009 when he was playing ISO ball 24/7).


Interesting answer. I disagree with a few things though. I don't feel Lebron really ever made anyone worse. The majority of players he already played with were either spot up shooters or defensive specialists. Boozer is the only guy who really did anything after leaving the Cavs. And he improved the year he played with Lebron. Hughes regressed after leaving Cleveland. I think a lot of that had to do with the fact he had a career year on a fullcourt Wizards team. He got worse in Cleveland and never regained form in Chicago, New York, or Charlotte. Shannon Brown eneded up a nice bench player. But he rarely played in Cleveland. Mike Brown preferred Daniel Gibson over him. I also don't think Lebron played with anyone as good as Gasol in Cleveland. Or really even Odom for that matter. Lebron's best teammates ever were all traded in salary dump situations (Shaq, Mo, and Jamison). Two of them were career gunners on bad teams and Shaq made the Suns worse. I would even argue Varejao was the best player Lebron ever played with in Cleveland.

As for Lebron guarding Lewis/Hedo, I think part of the problem was that no one in the frontcourt could guard Dwight. They were using Lebron as the help defender on Dwight a lot. Which left a ton of open shots for guys like Alston, Lewis, etc. I agree, they should have put Lebron on one of them, but I think Brown was worried about him wasting energy playing defense and having to carry the offense.

Repped for your earlier reply.

[KOBEtherealKing]

2. :rockon:

[SilkkTheShocker]

2. :rockon:

Which years?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Zero. Kobe would have forced his way out. Maybe even pout to ship Mo Williams' ass out.

[sayitaintso]

Zero. Adding Kobe in a swap for LeBron doesn't make the Cavs remotely better than the teams they lost to in those years.

If Kobe and the Cavs made the playoffs, they won't exit the playoffs with 30 point blowouts, it will most likely be 50+ blowouts. We already witnessed the last two postseason exit of 39 against the Celtics (finals record) and the Mavericks last year.

[Simple Jack]

It's hilarious that people like Pegasus bring up Kobe's 40/8/8 in game 1 against Orlando when it was a 25 point blowout in which Bryant played 38 minutes. Plenty of his numbers came when the game was completely out of reach and yet there's no mention of it. LeBron does this in a regular season game and the trolls come out of the woodwork but somehow when Kobe does it, it sets the tone for the series?

Nevermind the fact that the Magic team as a whole couldn't buy a three point bucket in that game, or the series as a whole relative to when they played the Cavaliers. Not to mention Gasol outplayed Dwight Howard.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

1. The Cavs supporting cast is the most underrated in history, rebounding, defense and 3 pt shooting matters more than star power.

2. The Eastern Conference has been comically weak for a decade. Kobe's average 1st round opponent is on par or better than 90% of the teams Lebron beat as a Cavalier in the playoffs

[SilkkTheShocker]

1. The Cavs supporting cast is the most underrated in history, rebounding, defense and 3 pt shooting matters more than star power.

2. The Eastern Conference has been comically weak for a decade. Kobe's average 1st round opponent is on par or better than 90% of the teams Lebron beat as a Cavalier in the playoffs

How many players have won a championship with just role players? Like 2 or 3 maybe?

[DMV2]

To the OP question, 0 championships.

But let's say we replace LeBron with Kobe on last season's Miami Heat team. I say the Heat would have their second championship right now.

Yes, LeBron maybe a better overall team player than Kobe but Kobe has the ability to show up and the will to win(not all the time but enough, and more than LeBron).

Kobe haters like myself have said he's been carried by his teammates, that's somewhat 50% true but a lot of stars have had help from their support cast. There's nothing wrong with that; Jordan got help from Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, Grant, etc too. But the thing is they are able to come through during crunch time like Kobe did in the 4th quarter of 2010 Finals game 7 and Dirk last season in the Finals game 6.

LeBron hasn't been able to feed off his teammates help yet, and yes he did have well enough help last season to get a ring. But he crumbled and turned into a 4th quarter bitch once again.

P.S. I'm sure some people will try to say I'm a hypocrite for that highlighted statement but that's my opinion between the two players. LeBron may have more physical b-ball skills but Kobe has the skills you can't determine by stats.

[guy]

Lebron's on the Lakers right? We can't just assume he doesn't exist. I'd say the results are the exact same except the Celtics beat the Lakers in 2010.

[KOBEtherealKing]

Which years?
09 and 10. who's to say that kobe wouldn't have demanded a trade and Gilbert would of brought in gasol. Idk if people are underrating kobe because it's the east but they would of definitely made the playoffs. all those times lebron lost in the playoffs, some people on this forum were saying if that was kobe on the cavs, he would of won. :rolleyes: :violin:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

How many players have won a championship with just role players? Like 2 or 3 maybe?

How many players won 5 titles with just one other all star player?

How many players team up with two all star players and disappear in the Finals?

Any all star #1 scoring option the last decade surrounded with great defensive players, great shooters and great rebounders is capable of duplicating the playoff success of Lebron James as a Cavalier.

[N0Skillz]

5 titles in 4 years

[Deuce Bigalow]

A ring in 2007

The east was GARBAGE, and kobe would do better than 22 ppg on 35.6 FG% and 5.8 TO per game in the Finals(Lebron's averages)

[madmax]

Lebron had slightly better numbers vs the Magic that year, but I believe Kobe played better. He set the tone in the first game with 40/8/8 and played great defense all series long. That's something Lebron couldn't do against the Magic. He should have been able to guard either Hedo or Lewis, but instead, they both had great series.

Here are Kobe's series-by-series numbers for 2009 playoffs:

- UTH: 40.8 min, 27.4 pts - 5.0 reb - 5.6 ast, .466 FG - .897 FT
- HOU: 37.9 min, 27.4 pts - 5.0 reb - 3.7 ast, .453 FG - .833 FT
- DEN: 42.0 min, 34.0 pts - 5.8 reb - 5.8 ast, .481 FG - .931 FT
- ORL: 43.8 min, 32.4 pts - 5.6 reb - 7.4 ast, .430 FG - .841 FT
- TOTAL: 40.9 min, 30.2 pts - 5.3 reb - 5.5 ast, .457 FG - .883 FT

Seeing what he did against the much stronger West teams, I have no doubt in my mind that they would have made the finals and beat either Denver or LA with Lebron instead.

And let's not act like that LA team back in 2009 was stacked with talent. Bynum wasn't what he is now (plus, he was injured IIRC, averaging only about 20mpg and 6ppg).

Odom was the only good player coming off the bench, and he averaged 13ppg.

Luke frigging Walton averaged 15 mpg in that series. Tell me he is not worse than any player Cleveland has ever had during Lebron's tenure there.

The other players coming off the bench were Farmar and Vujacic. Again, tell me if they are better than Anthony Parker, Mo, Delonte West, etc.?

And players like Ariza and Gasol are the type of players that Lebron has reduced to ineffective role players in his career. So I can't see them having similar performances playing next to Lebron (especially back in 2009 when he was playing ISO ball 24/7).

more BS from you I see...

The only reason why Cavs lost and Lakers won against Magic in 09 was because LA had twin towers to neutralize Dwight while Cavs had absolutely NO ONE to even dream of slowing him down. Constant double teaming led to wide open shots and Magic trigger happy perimeter was more than thankful for that. This wasn't the case with Lakers at all...if you really knew a shit about basketball, you would acknowledge this and compliment Lebron for playing lights out that year and still coming up short.

[SilkkTheShocker]

09 and 10. who's to say that kobe wouldn't have demanded a trade and Gilbert would of brought in gasol. Idk if people are underrating kobe because it's the east but they would of definitely made the playoffs. all those times lebron lost in the playoffs, some people on this forum were saying if that was kobe on the cavs, he would of won. :rolleyes: :violin:

The problem with the Gasol idea is that the Cavs had even less assets to trade than LA did. Cleveland didn't have a big expiring contract at the time (Kwame) a prospect with as much promise as Marc Gasol, etc.

[DMV2]

Lebron's on the Lakers right? We can't just assume he doesn't exist. I'd say the results are the exact same except the Celtics beat the Lakers in 2010.
I believe this is true too. A LeBron-led Lakers in 2010 would have lost to Boston

There's just something about LeBron's game I can't trust.


A ring in 2007

The east was GARBAGE, and kobe would do better than 22 ppg on 35.6 FG% and 5.8 TO per game in the Finals(Lebron's averages)I think you're underestimating the Spurs. They were still a great championship team during that run.

Kobe-led Cavs would have made it to the Finals but I believe they would have lost to any Western playoff team regardless if it was the Spurs or not. The West was and still is deep.

[RRR3]

LBJ averaged 38/9/9 against the magic in 09. But yeah Kobe would do better:rolleyes:

[RRR3]

A ring in 2007

The east was GARBAGE, and kobe would do better than 22 ppg on 35.6 FG% and 5.8 TO per game in the Finals(Lebron's averages)
Kobe would NOT get the team to the finals:roll:

[SilkkTheShocker]

A ring in 2007

The east was GARBAGE, and kobe would do better than 22 ppg on 35.6 FG% and 5.8 TO per game in the Finals(Lebron's averages)

There is no way in hell that team beats the Spurs. Even with Kobe's history of putting up good numbers again San Antonio. That Spurs team is very underrated. They don't get the credit they deserve because they were overshadowed by Dallas and Phoenix all season. At best the win a game or two but the Spurs aren't losing 4 games to that Cavs. Lebron had to have a historically good game in the Detroit series just to beat them at home. Spurs were even better.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe would NOT get the team to the finals:roll:
:oldlol:
The East in 2007 was terrible, yes he would imo
The only good team that was a threat was the Pistons, but they won a ring 3 years ago and were old

[Rnbizzle]

A ring in 2007

The east was GARBAGE, and kobe would do better than 22 ppg on 35.6 FG% and 5.8 TO per game in the Finals(Lebron's averages)
Kobe would have never gotten that far in 07. :facepalm

The truth obviously is Kobe couldn't have carried those teams like Lebron did, but those teams (with Lebron) are not a recipe for success obviously, so why does this matter?

I kinda feel like Lebron lead those teams further then they should actually be able to get. They overachieved, but somewhere along the line they'd be busted and beaten by better teams, which is why he didn't win any rings in Cleveland, not because he didn't 'want it badly enough' or anything.

[Legends66NBA7]

LBJ averaged 38/9/9 against the magic in 09. But yeah Kobe would do better:rolleyes:

38/8/8 on 49%... but yeah I get what you mean.

However, looking back at the series Orlando was able to shutdown everybody else. That's how they won. LeBron was putting up the majority of the numbers and scoring that it came down to him. Basically going... 1 on 5.

Not sure if Kobe is going to do something like that, but putting up big numbers doesn't mean it's the only way to win or contributing less. If we are still talking about 2007... Kobe got Gasol in Cleveland ?

Knowing Kobe's history though... he might go down shooting...

[Deuce Bigalow]

There is no way in hell that team beats the Spurs. Even with Kobe's history of putting up good numbers again San Antonio. That Spurs team is very underrated. They don't get the credit they deserve because they were overshadowed by Dallas and Phoenix all season. At best the win a game or two but the Spurs aren't losing 4 games to that Cavs. Lebron had to have a historically good game in the Detroit series just to beat them at home. Spurs were even better.
Lebron averaged 22 ppg and 5.8 TO with 35.6 FG%, of course they got swept
With Kobe, who has experience and was in his peak I think could have got it done, remember that Duncan didnt have a good series, and it was Parker who was on fire, Kobe could've have guarded him back then

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe would have never gotten that far in 07. :facepalm

The truth obviously is Kobe couldn't have carried those teams like Lebron did, but those teams (with Lebron) are not a recipe for success obviously, so why does this matter?

I kinda feel like Lebron lead those teams further then they should actually be able to get. They overachieved, but somewhere along the line they'd be busted and beaten by better teams, which is why he didn't win any rings in Cleveland, not because he didn't 'want it badly enough' or anything.
Over achieved?, the East was garbage :facepalm

[RRR3]

Lebron has only had one series where he truly "choked" (last years finals) and he got the team there which kobe wouldn't have (lol @ kobe playing sf and working with wade). And people want to act ad if lbj always chokes. :facepalm Like the cavs were a championship caliber team anyways. It's amazing lbj got them as far as he did; the fact thy he still gets hammered for series where he nearly averaged a 40 pt triple double each game just shows how much higher you guys place his expectations than you do for ANYONE else

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Lebron has only had one series where he truly "choked" (last years finals) and he got the team there which kobe wouldn't have (lol @ kobe playing sf and working with wade). And people want to act ad if lbj always chokes. :facepalm Like the cavs were a championship caliber team anyways. It's amazing lbj got them as far as he did; the fact thy he still gets hammered for series where he nearly averaged a 40 pt triple double each game just shows how much higher you guys place his expectations than you do for ANYONE else

Weird because I seem to remember the Cavs being the 1 seed :oldlol:

[6JamesIsKing]

Definitely Zero titles.

[Legends66NBA7]

Kobe would have never gotten that far in 07. :facepalm

The truth obviously is Kobe couldn't have carried those teams like Lebron did, but those teams (with Lebron) are not a recipe for success obviously, so why does this matter?

I kinda feel like Lebron lead those teams further then they should actually be able to get. They overachieved, but somewhere along the line they'd be busted and beaten by better teams, which is why he didn't win any rings in Cleveland, not because he didn't 'want it badly enough' or anything.

They beat one great team and lost to another great team.

Besides that, they beat 2 41-41 teams, in the Wizards (who had both Gilbert Arenas and Caron Butler injured during that series) and Nets (who were underachievers come playoff time..)

So the test would come down too, can the Kobe' Cavs beat the Pistons ? It's possible (might not be too likely, but it's still prime Kobe).

Though I agree, they would lose to the Spurs.

[RRR3]

38/8/8 on 49%... but yeah I get what you mean.

However, looking back at the series Orlando was able to shutdown everybody else. That's how they won. LeBron was putting up the majority of the numbers and scoring that it came down to him. Basically going... 1 on 5.

Not sure if Kobe is going to do something like that, but putting up big numbers doesn't mean it's the only way to win or contributing less. If we are still talking about 2007... Kobe got Gasol in Cleveland ?

Knowing Kobe's history though... he might go down shooting...
Yeah lbj had Gasol? Anyways deuce your stats are wrong.

[DMV2]

Lebron has only had one series where he truly "choked" (last years finals) ....
2007 Finals, 2010 series vs Boston?

I don't care what numbers he put up against Boston in that series, he still quit and choked.

[chazzy]

Kobe would have never gotten that far in 07. :facepalm

He could've beaten the Wizards and Nets. 07 wasn't that great of a year for Lebron in comparison to 08-10

[RRR3]

Weird because I seem to remember the Cavs being the 1 seed :oldlol:
Yeah because lebron. Playoffs is where defenses tighten there aren't weaker teams to beat up on and players like mo Williams get exposed. Again 38 ppg 8-9 rpg and apt wtf more u want from lbj?

[Deuce Bigalow]

You can't blame Lebron for '09

[2010splash]

Kobe has never had a supporting cast like LeBron. Despite this LeBron choked in the Finals against the underdog Mavs who were basically all role players except Dirk.

If LeBron couldn't win with prime Wade and Bosh, he sure as hell couldn't have won squat with Gasol (pretty much Bosh's equal) and Odom/Ariza/Fisher/Artest etc.

[RRR3]

2007 Finals, 2010 series vs Boston?

I don't care what numbers he put up against Boston in that series, he still quit and choked.
How on earth is 07 a choke? Cavs didn't even deserve to be in the finals did u expect then to win?:facepalm

[Deuce Bigalow]

How on earth is 07 a choke? Cavs didn't even deserve to be in the finals did u expect then to win?:facepalm
2007 East so dominant :bowdown:

[RRR3]

Kobe has never had a supporting cast like LeBron. Despite this LeBron choked in the Finals against the underdog Mavs who were basically all role players except Dirk.

If LeBron couldn't win with prime Wade and Bosh, he sure as hell couldn't have won squat with Gasol (pretty much Bosh's equal) and Odom/Ariza/Fisher/Artest etc.
That's retarded. So since lbj failed once with a great supporting cast he could never win a finals?

[Nash]

1. The Cavs supporting cast is the most underrated in history, rebounding, defense and 3 pt shooting matters more than star power.

2. The Eastern Conference has been comically weak for a decade. Kobe's average 1st round opponent is on par or better than 90% of the teams Lebron beat as a Cavalier in the playoffsYeah, the same cast that had the worst losing streak in the history of the NBA as soon as Lebron left. Sounds like an excellent cast.

[Legends66NBA7]

Lebron has only had one series where he truly "choked" (last years finals)

ECSF 2010 vs Boston (Games 4-6)


and he got the team there which kobe wouldn't have (lol @ kobe playing sf and working with wade). And people want to act ad if lbj always chokes. :facepalm Like the cavs were a championship caliber team anyways. It's amazing lbj got them as far as he did; the fact thy he still gets hammered for series where he nearly averaged a 40 pt triple double each game just shows how much higher you guys place his expectations than you do for ANYONE else

I would never say LeBron choked during the 2009 playoff at any point. That's his greatest playoff run to date (maybe ever for him ?...).

Though, many people would point out that the Cavalier team was overrated, due to their record vs Top teams that year.

[Legends66NBA7]

Yeah lbj had Gasol? Anyways deuce your stats are wrong.

You brought the 2009 numbers vs Orlando.

Not sure what else you wanted me to say, so I brought if Kobe caused a fit and got Gasol some how...

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Yeah because lebron. Playoffs is where defenses tighten there aren't weaker teams to beat up on and players like mo Williams get exposed. Again 38 ppg 8-9 rpg and apt wtf more u want from lbj?

Cavs didnt lose to the Magic because of their offense. Lakers offense didnt perform much better against them. Check the stats.

[RRR3]

ECSF 2010 vs Boston (Games 4-6)



I would never say LeBron choked during the 2009 playoff at any point. That's his greatest playoff run to date (maybe ever for him ?...).

Though, many people would point out that the Cavalier team was overrated, due to their record vs Top teams that year.
2010 is a tired pos. as if the cavs would have beat the lakers anyways. Plus Kobe fans love to use "but Kobe was hurt!" so I can say lbj had an injured elbow.

[RRR3]

Cavs didnt lose to the Magic because of their offense. Lakers offense didnt perform much better against them. Check the stats.
Lebron WAS the Cavs offense you clown.

[Legends66NBA7]

2007 Finals, 2010 series vs Boston?

I don't care what numbers he put up against Boston in that series, he still quit and choked.

2010 was clear to me, but I wouldn't say 2007.

Cavs had no chance vs the Spurs. Spurs had the deeper roster, better coaches, better defense, and better gameplan against LeBron.

LeBron was basically going 1 on 5.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Cavs didnt lose to the Magic because of their offense. Lakers offense didnt perform much better against them. Check the stats.

The Cavs lost because 1. Howard was absolutely dominating their frontcourt. They had nobody that could single cover him. Go back to game 4 where Dwight scores on 3 consecutive possesions in OT against Varejao. They had no choice but to double and Orlando made them pay dearly. 2. Cleveland's supporting cast couldn't knock down an open shot to save their lives. Mo Williams especially was a huge offender of this. In the closeout game Big Z got outscore 40-2 against Howard alone. You can give Lebron heat for multiple series, but I don't see any superstar getting out of the hole the 09 Cavs put Lebron in.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe nutgaggers vs. Lebron stans

:bowdown:

[Legends66NBA7]

2010 is a tired pos. as if the cavs would have beat the lakers anyways. Plus Kobe fans love to use "but Kobe was hurt!" so I can say lbj had an injured elbow.

I'll be honest with you, I don't buy either "injury". If both dudes were out there balling, you are not injured.

I've watched and read too much of all-time greats being injured (literally being wounded, bad ankles, going out there to play while being on a drug, etc...) to worry about the elbow (LeBron) or knee/finger(Kobe) that those two were going through. The media played them up.

I'm on your side for the injury part and LeBron was at a disadvantage as far as rosters go (doesn't explain what happened in the 11 Finals though), but LeBron should have showed up vs Boston, that's all I'm saying. It's not in his favor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d-Mnfz6iB0

[Legends66NBA7]

Kobe nutgaggers vs. Lebron stans

:bowdown:

You on any side ? Or are you trying to stay neutral as possible ? :oldlol:

[DonDadda59]

Kobe would ask for a trade by mid-season of 06.

This.

In all the years Lebron played in Cleveland, Mo Williams was by far the most talented teammate he had.

Mo f*cking Williams.

More interesting question is how would Lebron have faired with Bynum, Gasol, Odom, Artest as teammates in his MVP years. Guy lead squads of Mo Williams, Varejao, Anthony Parker, Boobie Gibson and 70 year old Big Z to the best record in the league 2 years in a row and deep playoff pushes :oldlol:

At least now we get to see how DA GAWD will do under the same system Bron played under with infinitely better teammates.

[pegasus]

It's hilarious that people like Pegasus bring up Kobe's 40/8/8 in game 1 against Orlando when it was a 25 point blowout in which Bryant played 38 minutes. Plenty of his numbers came when the game was completely out of reach and yet there's no mention of it. LeBron does this in a regular season game and the trolls come out of the woodwork but somehow when Kobe does it, it sets the tone for the series?

Nevermind the fact that the Magic team as a whole couldn't buy a three point bucket in that game, or the series as a whole relative to when they played the Cavaliers. Not to mention Gasol outplayed Dwight Howard.

You just can't stop making shit up, can you?

Kobe played only 5 minutes in the 4th quarter of that game and scored 4 points.

Here's the link: http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=290604013&period=1

Check out the play-by-play. Orlando was up at the end of the first quarter, then see what Kobe did to them in the 2nd and 3rd quarter, then come back and repeat what you just said if you can.

[Legends66NBA7]

Lebron WAS the Cavs offense you clown.

Yeah, pretty much.

I mean it was so bad how Cleveland's offense was basically all LeBron creativity ("Arch Angel Offense"). Mike Brown could not coach offense, period.

Basically, it was covered here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hovttjZb0nU&feature=plcp&context=C3f61a8bUDOEgsToPDskKDIfOgEuqptXUr6-avN6qg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2P6gJAL70&feature=plcp&context=C3bff95dUDOEgsToPDskJ8WIsAHI5zjeATDNXOVSvr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JXE4Lf1_Yc&feature=related

They were people actually saying that LeBron was robbed of coach of the year...

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You on any side ? Or are you trying to stay neutral as possible ? :oldlol:

Can't stand either of them man. :oldlol:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Lebron WAS the Cavs offense you clown.

and? Whats wrong with that? He's supposed to be one of the GOAT and instead he wants to be a role player on offense with the championship on the line?

Only Lebron fans believe a player should be entitled to a championship even when they play poorly.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Yeah, pretty much.

I mean it was so bad how Cleveland's offense was basically all LeBron creativity ("Arch Angel Offense"). Mike Brown could not coach offense, period.

Basically, it was covered here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hovttjZb0nU&feature=plcp&context=C3f61a8bUDOEgsToPDskKDIfOgEuqptXUr6-avN6qg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2P6gJAL70&feature=plcp&context=C3bff95dUDOEgsToPDskJ8WIsAHI5zjeATDNXOVSvr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JXE4Lf1_Yc&feature=related

They were people actually saying that LeBron was robbed of coach of the year...

What kind of plays did you see working effectively by all of the other brilliant offensive minds in the NBA against the best defenses in the league?

Plays work against weak to average defenses.. Against elite ones its going to require a superstar to try to create something out of a hard situation. There isn't a coach in the world that can change that.

[Simple Jack]

You just can't stop making shit up, can you?

Kobe played only 5 minutes in the 4th quarter of that game and scored 4 points.

Here's the link: http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=290604013&period=1

Check out the play-by-play. Orlando was up at the end of the first quarter, then see what Kobe did to them in the 2nd and 3rd quarter, then come back and repeat what you just said if you can.

He played half the quarter, when they were up by 25. He also had 9 points in the 3rd when the team was already up by nearly 20. Be consistent in your idiocy; that's all I ask.

[c3z4r]

Am i the only 1 who thinks they have a huge chance of winning in 07 and even in 08. People are trying to discredit lebron's teammates, but these same teammates came up big when lebron was playing like shit.

07 finals, lebron was playing ****ing horrendous and yet they barely lost. I know it was a sweep, but all games were extremely close and if lebron was being his normal self they would have won those finals. Kobe has a history of destroying the spurs in the playoffs, so i think he'll do the same in the finals, thus winning the championship in 07.

08, the same story as 07, his teammates came up big against the celts and in the first 2 games for example he shot .111 and .250 and his team only lost by 4 points in the first game and by 16 in the second, where lebron ironically shot 6-24 (:lol strange coincidence).However, by winning the first game they would have won the series, 4 to 3.

in 09 i give kobe no chance simply because the cavs role players were playing like garbage, and it was very obvious lebron was playing by himself out there, which is y i dont blame him for quitting, i think everybody would have done the same.

in 10, there were some close games between cavs and celtics but i think kobe, just like lebron, had no chance of beating the celts with that supporting cast.

All in all, i think kobe would have won at least 1 championship in 07 and maybe another one in 08, because that's when lebron teammates came up big when lebron wasn't playing that well and kept all the games close.

[LemonMan]

Yeah, the same cast that had the worst losing streak in the history of the NBA as soon as Lebron left. Sounds like an excellent cast.

Isn't that EXACTLY what you would expect to happen with a supporting cast without somebody to support? :facepalm

[pegasus]

He played half the quarter, when they were up by 25. He also had 9 points in the 3rd when the team was already up by nearly 20. Be consistent in your idiocy; that's all I ask.

So now he has to go to bench in the third quarter when his team is up by 20 points because of his great shooting in the second and third quarters? You would probably want him to go to bench even before that so they could lose the game, right?

You don't take your starters out of games in third quarters no matter how many points you're up by, unless it's their usual bench time. Never. NBA teams can always make a come back. Just ask Heat, heck, ask LA what happened in 2008 in game 4 of the finals (since you are too lazy: they were up by 20 in the 3rd quarter but still lost the game).

Either search and think before you reply to my posts, or don't even bother next time, because you will be ignored.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Isn't that EXACTLY what you would expect to happen with a supporting cast without somebody to support? :facepalm

Lebron fans think you judge supporting casts based on how well they win without you or how well they play when you play terribly rather how well they complement the star player.

[INDI]

He played half the quarter, when they were up by 25. He also had 9 points in the 3rd when the team was already up by nearly 20. Be consistent in your idiocy; that's all I ask.
Being up by NEARLY 20 in the third is not enough reason to take your foot off the gas, I'm pretty sure there are tons of games were teams came back from that deficit. If a team quits in the third and they only down around 20 does not deserve a spot in the league. Pegasus was correct, and you sir are exaggerating.

[HurricaneKid]

Lebron had slightly better numbers vs the Magic that year, but I believe Kobe played better. He set the tone in the first game with 40/8/8 and played great defense all series long. That's something Lebron couldn't do against the Magic. He should have been able to guard either Hedo or Lewis, but instead, they both had great series.

Here are Kobe's series-by-series numbers for 2009 playoffs:

- UTH: 40.8 min, 27.4 pts - 5.0 reb - 5.6 ast, .466 FG - .897 FT
- HOU: 37.9 min, 27.4 pts - 5.0 reb - 3.7 ast, .453 FG - .833 FT
- DEN: 42.0 min, 34.0 pts - 5.8 reb - 5.8 ast, .481 FG - .931 FT
- ORL: 43.8 min, 32.4 pts - 5.6 reb - 7.4 ast, .430 FG - .841 FT
- TOTAL: 40.9 min, 30.2 pts - 5.3 reb - 5.5 ast, .457 FG - .883 FT

Seeing what he did against the much stronger West teams, I have no doubt in my mind that they would have made the finals and beat either Denver or LA with Lebron instead.

And let's not act like that LA team back in 2009 was stacked with talent. Bynum wasn't what he is now (plus, he was injured IIRC, averaging only about 20mpg and 6ppg).

Odom was the only good player coming off the bench, and he averaged 13ppg.

Luke frigging Walton averaged 15 mpg in that series. Tell me he is not worse than any player Cleveland has ever had during Lebron's tenure there.

The other players coming off the bench were Farmar and Vujacic. Again, tell me if they are better than Anthony Parker, Mo, Delonte West, etc.?

And players like Ariza and Gasol are the type of players that Lebron has reduced to ineffective role players in his career. So I can't see them having similar performances playing next to Lebron (especially back in 2009 when he was playing ISO ball 24/7).

In the recorded history of the NBA no player has EVER had a higher WS/48 in a playoff run than LeBron had in 09.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_per_48_yearly_p.html

For you to argue that Kobe would have been that much better than the best statistical min for min run in playoff history makes you the biggest idiot/Kobe Stan ever.

And lets not pretend that Laker run was against any real elite teams. The Jazz were GARBAGE. They should feel great shame that they somehow let Houston win three games against them. In game 7 LA was an 11-1 favorite. I've never seen any odds like that in my life. And Den was a pythag 50-32 team. What elite Western Conf teams are you referring to?

[Simple Jack]

So now he has to go to bench in the third quarter when his team is up by 20 points because of his great shooting in the second and third quarters? You would probably want him to go to bench even before that so they could lose the game, right?

You don't take your starters out of games in third quarters no matter how many points you're up by, unless it's their usual bench time. Never. NBA teams can always make a come back. Just ask Heat, heck, ask LA what happened in 2008 in game 4 of the finals (since you are too lazy: they were up by 20 in the 3rd quarter but still lost the game).

Either search and think before you reply to my posts, or don't even bother next time, because you will be ignored.

This isn't my logic that I'm mocking. It's you and the other idiots who feel the need to make a post every night LeBron plays regarding how he stat-pads his way to a great game. I've never commented on Kobe staying in a game, nor do I come on here and badger him every chance I get regarding any good or bad game that he has like you and the others consistently do.

My life will be severely impacted if you ignore me, man. Please don't do it!

[pegasus]

In the recorded history of the NBA no player has EVER had a higher WS/48 in a playoff run than LeBron had in 09.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_per_48_yearly_p.html

For you to argue that Kobe would have been that much better than the best statistical min for min run in playoff history makes you the biggest idiot/Kobe Stan ever.

And lets not pretend that Laker run was against any real elite teams. The Jazz were GARBAGE. They should feel great shame that they somehow let Houston win three games against them. In game 7 LA was an 11-1 favorite. I've never seen any odds like that in my life. And Den was a pythag 50-32 team. What elite Western Conf teams are you referring to?

I'm not saying that Kobe would have had better stats playing with the Cavs against the Magic, but I think his game would have made his teammates around him better.

You can think that he's selfish, but he actually cares about winning more than Lebron does, and he gets more out of his teammates. It cannot be a coincidence that most players Kobe played with had performed better as opposed to playing without him. It's pretty much the exact opposite scenario for Lebron.

I know Kobe played bad in the Pistons series, but they were against one of the best defensive teams of all time. He shot badly, but he still made that amazing 3-pointer in game 2 to send the game to overtime, which ended up being their only win in that series.

Shaq made 10 out of his 29 free throw attempts in the three straight losses in Detroit, so let's not act like he was playing perfect basketball, and Kobe just kept shooting the ball.

Edit: I guess was responding to your post in the other thread, too. I'm tired :-)

[dirk94_]

I say they wouldn't even had made it where Lebron had made it for cleveland. Kobe always has a squad to back em up/ big man. Lebron had ok players but they wasn't Laker players.

Question is replace kobe with lebron would they won some of them champs? maybe even more??

[MMM]

zero because i don't think these role players fit with Kobe's style of play. While Kobe is a very good play maker/passer he is not as willing of a passer as LeBron is.

[cteach111]

Am i the only 1 who thinks they have a huge chance of winning in 07 and even in 08. People are trying to discredit lebron's teammates, but these same teammates came up big when lebron was playing like shit.

07 finals, lebron was playing ****ing horrendous and yet they barely lost. I know it was a sweep, but all games were extremely close and if lebron was being his normal self they would have won those finals. Kobe has a history of destroying the spurs in the playoffs, so i think he'll do the same in the finals, thus winning the championship in 07.

08, the same story as 07, his teammates came up big against the celts and in the first 2 games for example he shot .111 and .250 and his team only lost by 4 points in the first game and by 16 in the second, where lebron ironically shot 6-24 (:lol strange coincidence).However, by winning the first game they would have won the series, 4 to 3.

in 09 i give kobe no chance simply because the cavs role players were playing like garbage, and it was very obvious lebron was playing by himself out there, which is y i dont blame him for quitting, i think everybody would have done the same.

in 10, there were some close games between cavs and celtics but i think kobe, just like lebron, had no chance of beating the celts with that supporting cast.

All in all, i think kobe would have won at least 1 championship in 07 and maybe another one in 08, because that's when lebron teammates came up big when lebron wasn't playing that well and kept all the games close.

He was 21 and 22 years old in those 07 and 08 seasons. You can knock him for it, but its not a black mark on his playoff career.

You're asking this kid to beat KG, Pierce, and Allen who have been playing ball for years in the NBA. You're asking him to defeat the Spurs, a 3-time champion by that point.

Just sweep these "disappointments" under the rug. They weren't expected to win those matchups.. not by a long shot.

[c3z4r]

He was 21 and 22 years old in those 07 and 08 seasons. You can knock him for it, but its not a black mark on his playoff career.

You're asking this kid to beat KG, Pierce, and Allen who have been playing ball for years in the NBA. You're asking him to defeat the Spurs, a 3-time champion by that point.

Just sweep these "disappointments" under the rug. They weren't expected to win those matchups.. not by a long shot.

Who said i was blaming him for the losses? I simply said that he was playing horrible, which is expected for such a young player and that if kobe was in his place things would have been different, because his teammates kept things close.

I don't blame lebron for losing just like i don't blame kobe for airballing 3 shots, because i believe they weren't ready for that kind of pressure.

[Lebron23]

Zero

1st and 2nd round exit. I don't think that Cavs team with Kobe would win more than 53 or more games in the regular season. The Magic and Celtics would annihilate them in the preliminary rounds.

Just look at the Lakers record this year after they replaced Phil Jackson with Mike "F*cking" Brown. Gasol and Current Bynum are still better players than Mo, Jamison, and a past his prime Shaq.

[32Dayz]

He starts crying and the cavs bring Pau Gasol so he can carry Kobe to a chip.

:cheers:

Seriously the answer is obvious though.

Zero and most likely never makes it out of the first round.

[Lebron23]

Kobe demands a trade at the middle of the season. I also don't think he wants to live in Cleveland.

[LakersFan626]

0 titles for fail kobe

chuck 30 shots per game and lose in the first round.

Then attempt 50 game winners and make only 10.

After that "Kobe da GAWD he made 10 game winners this season"

*cough* on 50 attempts *cough*

6/28
6/24

U mad Kobe?

http://wwww.goodgame.ru/datas/galleries/79699_4cv9b_big.gif

Zero titles for fail LeBron.

3-11 for EIGHT points in the Finals.

Puts up good stats, yet fails to make his presence felt a lot of the time.

Makes 5-12 game winners.

Yet the box score fails to mention the numerous times he's been scared in the 4th since coming to Miami.

Chokes 2-1 lead to Mavs despite playing with a top 3 SG AND top 3 PF.

Quit in game 5 against the Celtics by shooting 3-14, with a TIED SERIES, AT HOME.

3-11
3-14

http://wwww.goodgame.ru/datas/galleries/79699_4cv9b_big.gif

I can do it too...

In all seriousness, I could see him winning in 09-10... Kobe would have much better shooters (Gibson, Parker, Sczerbiak, Mo), an even better defense, and Kobe's one of the best at making his teammates better (Smush's best seasons were with Kobe). More confident about 2010 than 2009 because LeBron played just as well against the Magic and lost (the only season LeBron truly had a case for being the best player), Kobe was a knock-down shooter in game winning situations that year, and Kobe would have Shaq in the middle in 2010 instead of Z. Kobe Cavs would beat the Suns in 2010 (Suns played no D) though they'd probably struggle against the Nuggets in 2009 (Nuggets much more well-rounded team than Cavs).

[BGriffin's Dad]

why bump this old thread?... oh lebron23...

[TheAesirsFinest]

why bump this old thread?... oh lebron23...

MTE :facepalm

[Heavincent]

why bump this old thread?... oh lebron23...

Why does he always do this? Just bumps random ass threads with some pointless post.

Post whore :facepalm

[Cali Syndicate]

How many titles do the Cavs win? I personally say 0. I think they would actually get worse. And the Cavs had no elite big men for him to play with.

06 they had Gooden and a still relevant Ilgauskas, not a bad front court. Probably the best Lebron has ever had to be honest .

Kobe wins zero titles, however I think in the east he would make it out the first round. He was winning 45 games with the Lakers in a tougher western conference. 45 wins is a mid seed in the east so the teams he faces won't be contending type teams like the Suns were. Doubt he makes any ECF appearances either.

[Cali Syndicate]

:cheers:

Seriously the answer is obvious though.

Zero and most likely never makes it out of the first round.

The 06 Lakers cast was worse than the 06 Cavs cast. Kobe took that Suns series to 7 games. You really don't think Kobe could have beat the Wizards? 06 Kobe was a beast. Your agenda is tiring.

[comerb]

How many titles do the Cavs win? I personally say 0. I think they would actually get worse. And the Cavs had no elite big men for him to play with.

They'd be lucky to get better than a 4th seed, and only because the division was total crap.

[SilkkTheShocker]

They'd be lucky to get better than a 4th seed, and only because the division was total crap.

agreed. Im not even a Kobe hate either. But anyone that think Kobe would have done a better job with those teams is crazy...