Lebron is on pace to have the most productive-efficient season ever...

[pauk]

28 ppg
8 rpg
7 apg
2 spg
1 bpg
55% FG
42% 3PT
78% FT
37 mpg

PER 48 minutes that makes it:

36 ppg
11 rpg
10 apg
3 spg
2 bpg
55% FG
42% 3PT
78% FT

hence why:

PER/EFF - 33.27 (highest of all time)

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/per-alltime1-1.png

Now i know its a bit early...... and that PER thing might drop some more... but the way he is playing right now i dont see a sign of it dropping to much aka. drop out of #1.... :D

Will be monitoring this process thruout the season

[madmax]

Most talented wing player I ever saw...:bowdown: :applause:
No one else comes even close

[Lebron23]

Cleveland LeBron is back.

[Quickening]

Lebron= GOAT.

[Lebron23]

Lebron= GOAT.


Not Yet. I feel this is the year that LeBron is going to win his first Championship ring and NBA title. Dominant and once in a lifetime players like Jordan and Shaq won their first NBA title and Finals MVP when they were 28 yrs.old. LeBron worked his @$$ off during the NBA lockout, and he's currently having his best season in his NBA Career

[pauk]

Lebron= GOAT.

lol no (considering accomplishments)

but certainly one of the most talented-productive players ever

http://i.pinger.pl/pgr484/28a1d2ad0013ef634e29d881/ken-jeong.gif

[RRR3]

Lebron= GOAT.
Michael Jordan laughs at this nonsense.

[Quickening]

Most productive season, combined with a championship and FMVP will cement his place as GOAT.

[Quickening]

Michael Jordan laughs at this nonsense.

Cool..... but we all know Lebron is the better player, he would have also have won easy championships if he would have played in a weak era (90s) on a stacked team.

[Nash-tastic]

lol no (considering accomplishments)

but certainly one of the most talented-productive players ever

http://i.pinger.pl/pgr484/28a1d2ad0013ef634e29d881/ken-jeong.gif
You're improving as a poster. Just thought I'll point that out.

[RRR3]

Most productive season, combined with a championship and FMVP will cement his place as GOAT.
As great as LEbron is mj was even better. And lbj better win a lot of fmvps if he's gonna have a chance at sniffing goat. I do think lbj can be a top 5 player ever tho.

[b1imtf]

Cool..... but we all know Lebron is the better player, he would have also have won easy championships if he would have played in a weak era (90s) on a stacked team.
And so we welcome a new troll

[Lebron23]

Most productive season, combined with a championship and FMVP will cement his place as GOAT.


If he wins an NBA Finals MVP this year. He's going to be a top 11 player of all time. LeBron needs to win at least 2 Finals MVP to beat Hakeem and Kobe at the no.9 and no.10 spot.

[madmax]

Michael Jordan laughs at this nonsense.

Lebron >> 90's SG, who happened to play for a most stacked team of all time. He's on course to have the greatest statistical season ever by a wing player

[Jasi]

30 ppg @ 60% FG, 80% FT (66% TS)
8 rpg
8 apg
2 spg
1 bpg
36 minutes

PER 48 minutes that makes it:

40 ppg
11 rpg
11 apg
3 spg
2 bpg

hence why:

PER - 36.8 (highest of all time)
EFF - 35.4 (highest of all time)

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/per-alltime1.png


Now i know its a bit early...... and that PER thing will drop... but the way he is playing right now i dont see a sign of it dropping to much aka. drop out of #1.... :D


Nice, great, so you can be happy, whereas the world of basketball will keep on caring about the ultimate goal of the game. You know, that little thing called "WIN" :oldlol:

[pauk]

Cleveland LeBron is back.

he is better now... cleveland Bron had no post game whatsoever (didnt really need it maybe that much back then lol)... settled to much for perimeter shots aswell....

this Lebron right here is just vicious, attacking the rim 24-7.... the guy is on a mission

you know how people used to say "When lebron adds a post game, its gona be scary"...... well... this is it... he is posting up / facing up, lots of new moves there, doesnt settle for perimeter shots, if its not the post then he is facing up for midrange jumpshots or blowing by you, if hes not doing either then he is cutting for alleyoops of the ball.... or else he brings up the ball mostly for facilitating-point-forwarding intentions....

and its not that "scary" as it can be yet... considering his post game is still in process... its only now he really decided to level up that aspect of his game.... its the biggest reason he is this efficient right now imo

[Nash-tastic]

Lebron >> 90's SG, who happened to play for a most stacked team of all time. He's on course to have the greatest statistical season ever by a wing player
:facepalm

[RRR3]

Lebron >> 90's SG, who happened to play for a most stacked team of all time. He's on course to have the greatest statistical season ever by a wing player
You're just as bad as the Kobe stans when you say bs like this.

[Quickening]

And so we welcome a new troll

Sorry that having a different opinion to yours makes me a troll...... after watching Lebron carry a rubbish cavs outfit, and his all round ability to make team mates better, when its all said and done, he will be recognised as the GOAT.

[OmniStrife]

This is some crazy shit.

I for one, am really hoping he doesn't fade off during the playoffs and claim that ring.
His "shrinkage" was horrible to watch.

[Nash-tastic]

This is some crazy shit.

I for one, am really hoping he doesn't fade off during the playoffs and claim that ring.
His "shrinkage" was horrible to watch.
Can't wait to see what happens, but for now it doesn't look like any team can stop him :applause:

[Lebron23]

he is better now... cleveland Bron had no post game whatsoever... settled to much for perimeter shots aswell....

this Lebron right here is just vicious, attacking the rim 24-7.... the guy is on a mission

you know how people used to say "When lebron adds a post game, its gona be scary"...... well... this is it... he is posting up / facing up, lots of new moves there, doesnt settle for perimeter shots, if its not the post then he is facing up for midrange jumpshots or blowing by you, if hes not doing either then he is cutting for alleyoops of the ball.... or else he brings up the ball mostly for facilitating-point-forwarding intentions....

and its not that "scary" as it can be yet... considering his post game is still in process... its only now he really decided to level up that aspect of his game.... its the biggest reason he is this efficient right now.....


He's averaging 30.1 ppg in only 18.5 FG's attempts per game. LeBron is now currently 2nd in FG% right behind potential all star Spencer Hawes.

[RazorBaLade]

theres no way he will be even above 55% when season is over


but this is an incredible 7 game stretch or w/e it is

[OmniStrife]

Can't wait to see what happens, but for now it doesn't look like any team can stop him :applause:

It also looked that way during last year's playoffs during the 1st 3 rounds...
The only thing that stops LeBron James, is LeBron James.

[pauk]

This is some crazy shit.

I for one, am really hoping he doesn't fade off during the playoffs and claim that ring.
His "shrinkage" was horrible to watch.

hope so to... playoffs is not a problem man.. he has been even better there... its only the Finals... but yea that is part of playoffs to so, lol...

but that is gona change imo... his team has improved... the chemistry of the team has improved... there is no offensive confusions anymore... and he has improved that exact aspect of the game which he needs the most (and his team needs from him the most) to be more successful and consistant and he focuses on it........ he is on a mission... its highly likely he will get his Ring this year.... not afraid to say that

[RRR3]

It also looked that way during last year's playoffs during the 1st 3 rounds...
The only thing that stops LeBron James, is LeBron James.
This. It's hard being a lbj fan sometimes although I'm sure it's much harder on him.
Btw who's ur avatar?

[Nash-tastic]

This. It's hard being a lbj fan sometimes although I'm sure it's much harder on him.
Btw who's ur avatar?
Markieff Morris
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=246768

[Pursuer]

The change of game is what everyone should be focused on, not the stats. LeBron's attempted 2 three-pointers so far this season.

[Lebron23]

hope so to... playoffs is not a problem man.. he has been even better there... its only the Finals... but yea that is part of playoffs to so, lol...

but that is gona change imo... his team has improved... the chemistry of the team has improved... there is no offensive confusions anymore... and he has improved that exact aspect of the game which he needs the most (and his team needs from him the most) to be more successful and consistant and he focuses on it........ he is on a mission... its highly likely he will get his Ring this year.... not afraid to say that


I really hated LeBron when he camped at the 3 points line, and he missed some easy dunks and layups in the NBA Finals.

[nathanjizzle]

:applause: Thats great for lebron and everything. but it still wont mean shit unless he wins a ring this season or he will still be labeled as a loser.

[alenleomessi]

well lets not forget that cleveland lebron was a sick streaky shooter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyd4NPvzKQg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhiY3jVoAuM

now he doesnt even shoots a 3, which i agree is good for his game and fg%, but still..

[RRR3]

:applause: Thats great for lebron and everything. but it still wont mean shit unless he wins a ring this season or he will still be labeled as a loser.
Lebron has always had the highest expectations of any player. That says a lot IMO. No one else during lbj's career has been held to his standards. Which is not to say lbj has been he best player in the league his whole career (he hasnt, though he's had about 3 years being arguably the best, 2 years pretty much unamiously considered the best) people just set such high standards for lebron and until last years finals I'd say lbj met or exceeded pretty much all realistic expectations of him. However, he SHOULD have performed much better in the finals (no ifs ands or buts) so now he's got to show everyone he can come back and get the job done this time around. He's quite capable as omnistrife said the only person who can stop him Is himself.

[RRR3]

well lets not forget that cleveland lebron was a sick streaky shooter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyd4NPvzKQg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhiY3jVoAuM

now he doesnt even shoots a 3, which i agree is good for his game and fg%, but still..
If you ask me lbj should still take 3s he has the post game now to go to if his shot isn't falling. Lbj is a volume 3pt shooter if he took higher percentage thees hed be more efficient while still having the 3 ball. Whatever tho it's working.

[strifed169]

well lets not forget that cleveland lebron was a sick streaky shooter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyd4NPvzKQg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhiY3jVoAuM

now he doesnt even shoots a 3, which i agree is good for his game and fg%, but still..

In the 2nd vid, I never knew Lebron would ever have tried to attack someone :lol

[b1imtf]

Sorry that having a different opinion to yours makes me a troll...... after watching Lebron carry a rubbish cavs outfit, and his all round ability to make team mates better, when its all said and done, he will be recognised as the GOAT.
Dude, don't get me wrong, I really like LeBron aswell. But you can't call him GOAT right now

[Quickening]

Dude, don't get me wrong, I really like LeBron aswell. But you can't call him GOAT right now

I think he will be GOAT when his career is over (imo anyway, lots of people will always overrate MJ)... and I think this will be GOAT season as well production wise, which will be capped off with a championship and a FMVP.

[Asukal]

I think he will be GOAT when his career is over (imo anyway, lots of people will always overrate MJ)... and I think this will be GOAT season as well production wise, which will be capped off with a championship and a FMVP.

Your blatant disrespect of all the past greats is disgusting. It will take a whole career of excellence for someone to be GOAT, not a couple of amazing early season games. Get your ass off Lebron's d!ck! If he fails to deliver again, then what? More excuses? :facepalm

[Quickening]

Your blatant disrespect of all the past greats is disgusting. It will take a whole career of excellence for someone to be GOAT, not a couple of amazing early season games. Get your ass off Lebron's d!ck! If he fails to deliver again, then what? More excuses? :facepalm

He has had a career of excellene so far.... we going to act like Lebron hasn't been the best player in the NBA for the last 5-6 years.

[InspiredLebowski]

uPER = (1 / MP) * [ 3P + (2/3) * AST + (2 - factor * (team_AST / team_FG)) * FG + (FT *0.5 * (1 + (1 - (team_AST / team_FG)) + (2/3) * (team_AST / team_FG))) - VOP * TOV - VOP * DRB% * (FGA - FG) - VOP * 0.44 * (0.44 + (0.56 * DRB%)) * (FTA - FT) + VOP * (1 - DRB%) * (TRB - ORB) + VOP * DRB% * ORB + VOP * STL + VOP * DRB% * BLK - PF * ((lg_FT / lg_PF) - 0.44 * (lg_FTA / lg_PF) * VOP) ]

that's definitely the way I rank my basketball players

[Dave3]

No he's not. Bird, Barkley, Wilt, and Kareem have all had more efficient seasons.

[Heavincent]

It doesn't mean shit if he can't win the big one. We all know Lebron can play very well during the regular season, the Finals/playoffs are a different story.

When the playoffs roll around, I'll take Kobe over anybody else in the league right now.

[Dragonyeuw]

Guys, he's had similar levels of dominance before. Let's see this kind of play in the finals before crowning him King, yeah? This is a very impressive 8 game stretch, but it's a small sample size. Way too soon to say if his stats will hold over the season, of if Lebron is just off to a very hot start and will come slightly back down to earth as the season goes on.

[blablabla]

Lebron GOAT:lol
he can't even be the best sf of all time

[inclinerator]

lebron wuld be way more fun to watch if he focused entirely on scoring

[arifgokcen]

lebron wuld be way more fun to watch if he focused entirely on scoring
Yeah considering there are almost no defenders that can match up with him,it would be fun to watch.I really believe he could average 40ppg if he really wanted to i mean look at his stats 30ppg on %60.This is a perimeter player we are talking about.

[Carbine]

It doesn't mean shit if he can't win the big one. We all know Lebron can play very well during the regular season, the Finals/playoffs are a different story.

When the playoffs roll around, I'll take Kobe over anybody else in the league right now.

Why? Kobe wasn't the best player in any of his two series last year, and that trend will probably continue.

[ILLsmak]

Most productive season, combined with a championship and FMVP will cement his place as GOAT.

Disagree because I think those things are coming, likely this year. But it's still a lockout season. A lot of players aren't even on their game; they didn't even think they'd be playing this year.

-Smak

[bwink23]

Cool..... but we all know Lebron is the better player, he would have also have won easy championships if he would have played in a weak era (90s) on a stacked team.


Michael Jordan had all the shit Kobe, Wade, or Lebon don't have on their own....Jordan was super clutch, hit the 3-pointer, high scorer on great effeciency, great defender, great FT shooter, athletic with what Phil called "billion-dollar hands"

Kobe = not effecient...Lebron = can't shoot FT's as well, less clutch...Wade = lacks in most areas....

Jordan is the only one who could do it all at a consistently high level = no holes.

[Quickening]

Michael Jordan had all the shit Kobe, Wade, or Lebon don't have on their own....Jordan was super clutch, hit the 3-pointer, high scorer on great effeciency, great defender, great FT shooter, athletic with what Phil called "billion-dollar hands"

Kobe = not effecient...Lebron = can't shoot FT's as well, less clutch...Wade = lacks in most areas....

Jordan is the only one who could do it all at a consistently high level = no holes.

He wasn't high level 3 point shooter bar the year they move the line closer.....

Compare the drop off Cavs had when Lebron left, to when MJ left the bulls for his little break.

Lebron makes his team far better, I question whether MJ does this.

[ILLsmak]

Michael Jordan had all the shit Kobe, Wade, or Lebon don't have on their own....Jordan was super clutch, hit the 3-pointer, high scorer on great effeciency, great defender, great FT shooter, athletic with what Phil called "billion-dollar hands"

Kobe = not effecient...Lebron = can't shoot FT's as well, less clutch...Wade = lacks in most areas....

Jordan is the only one who could do it all at a consistently high level = no holes.

as a talent, LeBron is better than MJ. BLASPHEMY. But it's true. take 4 random role players and put them on each side, LeBron wins and gets more stats.

Larry Bird was clutch. You saw him hitting ridiculous shots. MJ was just doing his thing. His clutch was consistency. LeBron only has had that chance once. And last year they just got outplayed by the Mavs. The Mavs and Dirk put on an epic show the whole playoffs.

MJ, as great as he was, is so overrated. All of these wings are overrated. But LeBron is truly a stud. What does MJ do better than LeBron? Post up? Is he really a better defender? Maybe, but LeBron can guard more positions. LeBron is the bigger match up nightmare. Plus MJ was playing against a lot of guys that weren't able to compete with him athletically. Imagine a team putting Craig Ehlo on LeBron and having no zone to cover up for it.

-Smak

[Yung D-Will]

Unless Lebron is joining the 50/40/90 club then no.


But definitly one of the most efficent of all time though

[Chrono90]

Lebron= GOAT.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3958/jordanw.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/201/jordanw.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[Mr. Jabbar]

Call me back when he doesnt choke to win it all.

[Oositdwn]

Good thread. I look forward to bumping this after playoffs :cheers:

[Dragonyeuw]

Plus MJ was playing against a lot of guys that weren't able to compete with him athletically.

Isn't that true of Lebron as well? Who at his position can keep up with him athletically??

[Pointguard]

30 ppg @ 60% FG, 80% FT (66% TS)
8 rpg
8 apg
2 spg
1 bpg
36 minutes

PER 48 minutes that makes it:

40 ppg
11 rpg
11 apg
3 spg
2 bpg

hence why:

PER - 36.8 (highest of all time)
EFF - 35.4 (highest of all time)

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/per-alltime1.png


Now i know its a bit early...... and that PER thing will drop... but the way he is playing right now i dont see a sign of it dropping to much aka. drop out of #1.... :D

Well if he plays like this the whole year I will concede it the best regular season in the modern era. And not so much because of the super impressive stats (have to love his anti-stat padding game against the Nets - I can't remember the last time I saw that) but because his judgement and team play is off the hook. I think Durant will go down as one of the greatest scorers ever but Lebron, if he wanted to, could have outscored him every year and still gotten six assist per game. The guy uses speed, strength, coordination, court vision, knowledge of the game, quickness, unselfishness at such a high level its great to watch. I won't project, but while he's driven like this we are going to see some real special nights.

[Vienceslav]

On pace to one of the best seasons ever , period.
If he wins it all , people might even go as far as acknowledging it.

[Story Up]

Lol I'm are Jordan had a better efficiency during a ten game span.

[juju151111]

as a talent, LeBron is better than MJ. BLASPHEMY. But it's true. take 4 random role players and put them on each side, LeBron wins and gets more stats.

Larry Bird was clutch. You saw him hitting ridiculous shots. MJ was just doing his thing. His clutch was consistency. LeBron only has had that chance once. And last year they just got outplayed by the Mavs. The Mavs and Dirk put on an epic show the whole playoffs.

MJ, as great as he was, is so overrated. All of these wings are overrated. But LeBron is truly a stud. What does MJ do better than LeBron? Post up? Is he really a better defender? Maybe, but LeBron can guard more positions. LeBron is the bigger match up nightmare. Plus MJ was playing against a lot of guys that weren't able to compete with him athletically. Imagine a team putting Craig Ehlo on LeBron and having no zone to cover up for it.

-Smak
Mj was guarded by clyde,Rodman,,Harper,Cooper throughout his career. Wtf are you talking about dumbass?
LJ averged like 17 ppg and got outplayed by Wade. LJ had plenty of chances to win and even go up 2-0 he choked in the 4th Q

MJ was a way better post player you idiot:facepalm

[O_City_Thunder]

I can't wait til the Playoffs!!!

I want to see if he will perform at this level throughout the Playoffs. I actually wouldn't mind seeing him to get that monkey off his back and win a ring. Unless of course.....the Heat face the Thunder in the finals. Then I say **** him and his ring quest.

[Pointguard]

Lol I'm are Jordan had a better efficiency during a ten game span.

I'm sure he has. But I wouldn't necessarily say it was better play. Lebron's all around game is what's amazing.

[EnoughSaid]

LeBron is just :eek:. Dude is a ****ing monster. Hoping for him to win scoring title, regular season MVP, and Finals MVP. :bowdown:

[All Net]

LeBron is just :eek:. Dude is a ****ing monster. Hoping for him to win scoring title, regular season MVP, and Finals MVP. :bowdown:

I think right now that has to be the expection...if Miami gets top seed how will Lebron not get MVP? he does need a finals MVP to prove alot to people. Said it since the start there is no excuse for Miami not winning it all this year..none whats so ever

[hitmanyr2k]

It's nice Lebron is putting up video game numbers to make stat geeks drool and all but we all know he's a human stat machine so his numbers aren't much of a surprise and neither is his efficiency considering he's getting a lot of his scoring numbers flying up and down the floor on the break with dunks and layups. That's all well and good to track meet horrible opponents off the floor but regular season Lebron doesn't surprise me anymore. When hasn't he performed well in the regular season? I'm waiting to see what Lebron has in store in the playoffs when the game slows down and the pressure is on and he can't get the cheap buckets on the break because defenses are better. That's where he's truly going to be measured.

[cteach111]

i've been one to bash lebron and not give him his due, but what he's doing right now is frightening/staggering and very, very painful to posters like myself who absolutely hate him.

[brownmamba00]

I think right now that has to be the expection...if Miami gets top seed how will Lebron not get MVP? he does need a finals MVP to prove alot to people. Said it since the start there is no excuse for Miami not winning it all this year..none whats so ever
Do you really believe Wade is gonna suck this hard for the rest of the 56 games? I don't think so and Bron will cool off.
This is typical Wade and Bron. Wade always starts off slow but picks it up and Bron always starts hot but cools off later on.

Haven't you people learned anything from the past years?

[Heavincent]

Said it since the start there is no excuse for Miami not winning it all this year..none whats so ever

There weren't any legit excuses last year either, despite what some Lebron stans say.

[Optimus Prime]

Let see if this "most productive-efficient season ever" leads to a ring.

PER... :lol Don't LeBronze fanbois always quote PER religiously when blasting Kobe or Rose?

[All Net]

There weren't any legit excuses last year either, despite what some Lebron stans say.

Nah they were

Haslem
Miller

both out and no where near 100%...first year together, real issues at PG....least this year they are improved in that area. Same with adding a quailty vet like Battier.

Not everybody had them winning last season...this year that is different.

[AMISTILLILL]

And so we welcome a new troll

:oldlol:

[jlauber]

Lebron is the most gifted SKILLED athlete of this generation. True, his two Finals appearances were underwhelming, but he has some great post-seasons.

Before the beginning of last season, I thought the Heat were over-rated, not because they weren't talented, but because they really had not played together. And they still held a 2-1 series lead in the Finals. Now, with basically a year under their belt, barring injury, I see this team as a juggernaut. And Lebron will be the key.

Once again, and for all the detractors...there was a reason that MANY NBA teams were doing everything in their power to get this guy in the "Lebron sweepstakes."

And once he gets a ring under his belt (and it will come), there will be more to follow. And along the way, he may very put up a triple-double season at some point.

Given the fact that he is still relatively young, and in great shape, (and once again, barring injury), it will just be a question of how many rings, and FMVP's, that he winds up with in his career. And that will determine where he finishes in these GOAT discussions. I suspect that he will certainly be in the Top-10.

[Dave3]

Nah they were

Haslem
Miller

both out and no where near 100%...first year together, real issues at PG....least this year they are improved in that area. Same with adding a quailty vet like Battier.

Not everybody had them winning last season...this year that is different.
Even with all of that though, they still should have won. LeBron shouldn't average 18/7/7 until he's like 35. Had he been his normal 27/7/7 self they would have won. While all those factors you named affected things, they could've been overcome just by LeBron being himself in the finals.

[guy]

theres no way he will be even above 55% when season is over


but this is an incredible 7 game stretch or w/e it is

He was at 56% post-all star break (25 games) last year while shooting over three 3-pointers per game that he was converting at like 29%, which means he was shooting 62% from 2 last year. And he's basically not shooting any 3s this year. I think it is very possible that he can shoot above 55% this season.

[Dave3]

He was at 56% post-all star break (25 games) last year while shooting over three 3-pointers per game that he was converting at like 29%, which means he was shooting 62% from 2 last year. And he's basically not shooting any 3s this year. I think it is very possible that he can shoot above 55% this season.
Is it possible for LeBron to shoot 60%+ if he doesn't take 3s all year? Very.

Do I have faith that unstable LeBron will stay consistent in going to the post first and actually not shoot more than 25 3s all year? Not much. I'm not saying he can't change, but the guy has a tendency to fall in love with certain parts of his game and revert to them a lot. It's looking more and more like it will stay that way though with each passing game.

[DonDadda59]

Not really surprising. When he was in Cleveland a few years ago, I said if he stopped settling for/jacking up ill-conceived jumpers and threes and shortened up his game and started working more out of the post, then he'd have a season(s) for the ages. I think we're just now beginning to see Lebron tap into his full potential, which is frightening for the league.

I thought that once he made the 'decision' that he automatically took his and D-Wade's names out of the MVP discussion forever, both those guys even admitted as much. But you can't argue with results- so far, Lebron has been the best player in the game and the obvious choice for MVP, by a mile.

Let me see if I can find and bump that thread.

[guy]

as a talent, LeBron is better than MJ. BLASPHEMY. But it's true. take 4 random role players and put them on each side, LeBron wins and gets more stats.

Larry Bird was clutch. You saw him hitting ridiculous shots. MJ was just doing his thing. His clutch was consistency. LeBron only has had that chance once. And last year they just got outplayed by the Mavs. The Mavs and Dirk put on an epic show the whole playoffs.

MJ, as great as he was, is so overrated. All of these wings are overrated. But LeBron is truly a stud. What does MJ do better than LeBron? Post up? Is he really a better defender? Maybe, but LeBron can guard more positions. LeBron is the bigger match up nightmare. Plus MJ was playing against a lot of guys that weren't able to compete with him athletically. Imagine a team putting Craig Ehlo on LeBron and having no zone to cover up for it.

-Smak

Wow. Jordan's a better scorer (post-up, shooting, slashing), defender (man, shot-blocker, passing lanes), clutch player, and leader. There's no debate about any of that. Lebron's a better passer and rebounder.

It is very doubtful Lebron will ever be considered as great as Jordan. Its not really cause of talent, but more because he just doesn't have the leadership, ruthlessness, killer instinct, and fearlessness that Jordan had. And its very unlikely that that will come in Lebron's 9th season. Talent-wise they're close. Mentally, they're on a completely different level. Lebron's been having a great season and I think alot of it will continue. But come on. Its been 8 games, and most of them against some crappy teams.

[lilgodfather1]

Good season, and I am one of LeBron's biggest fans, but I can't say he is going to have a great season yet. I think you have to wait until 25 games until you can say look what he is doing for the season, but maybe he keeps it up. It certainly is possible. The funny thing is that it doesn't look like he is trying to dominate, or force the issue like other players seem to. LeBron also hasn't been trying to score, yet he is netting 30 points.

[guy]

Is it possible for LeBron to shoot 60%+ if he doesn't take 3s all year? Very.

Do I have faith that unstable LeBron will stay consistent in going to the post first and actually not shoot more than 25 3s all year? Not much. I'm not saying he can't change, but the guy has a tendency to fall in love with certain parts of his game and revert to them a lot. It's looking more and more like it will stay that way though with each passing game.

True. I doubt he shoots 60%. But I don't think 55-57% is out of the question. Like I said, in the last 25 games last year, he was shooting 56%, 62% from 2. He might revert back to shooting 3s, but is it going to be over 3 per game? Doubtful. Here's another thing. I think he's fully aware of how historic of a season he can possibly have. He's a stat whore like everyone says, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if he continues to not shoot 3s because of that.

I think alot of his super-efficiency dating back to last year is due to him finally getting used to playing with Wade and Bosh, and how much the attention they get opens things up for Lebron.

[EnoughSaid]

I think right now that has to be the expection...if Miami gets top seed how will Lebron not get MVP? he does need a finals MVP to prove alot to people. Said it since the start there is no excuse for Miami not winning it all this year..none whats so ever

Especially if my boy D-Wade isn't going to play as well throughout. :(

[Dave3]

True. I doubt he shoots 60%. But I don't think 55-57% is out of the question. Like I said, in the last 25 games last year, he was shooting 56%, 62% from 2. He might revert back to shooting 3s, but is it going to be over 3 per game? Doubtful.

I think alot of his super-efficiency dating back to last year is due to him finally getting used to playing with Wade and Bosh, and how much the attention they get opens things up for Lebron.
I've said the exact same thing to many friends. I've also referenced his last few months last year shooting 56% multiple times on this board. One thing to keep in mind though last year, was that the efficiency wasn't just getting used to playing with Wade/Bosh, it was the fact that his midrange all of a sudden became like a free throw to him. He shot 60% in March and 55% in April in his 16-23 ft jumpers. That's not happening for an entire season for any player in the league.

So yeah, I'd agree to the ~56% estimation for the year if he avoids taking as many 3s as in the past, assuming he does start to take a few more.

[All Net]

Especially if my boy D-Wade isn't going to play as well throughout. :(

Wade will be fine, he started off slow last year too.

[dude77]

Lebron puts up all these great stats .. but up until now that's all they are .. stats .. no rings and great stats = empty stats .. he's come up short twice on the biggest stage when he had the chance to cement his place(more specifically last year, Miami should have won that series but Lebron DISAPPEARED like a bitch) .. got humiliated twice in the FINALS .. that NEVER happened to Jordan .. until Lebron wins it all, he can't be talked about in the same breath as Jordan or any other greats, sorry

[Sarcastic]

In 1987 George Bell hit 3 home runs on opening day.
He was on pace to hit 486 home runs that year. That would have been a record.

[Heavincent]

In 1987 George Bell hit 3 home runs on opening day.
He was on pace to hit 486 home runs that year. That would have been a record.

Yeah, the on-pace thing is retarded. Tom Brady was on pace to throw for like 7,500 yards after the first three games.

[Duncan21formvp]

Cool..... but we all know Lebron is the better player, he would have also have won easy championships if he would have played in a weak era (90s) on a stacked team.
Lebron is the same dude who has 2 bronze medals despite playing with superstars in the Olympics and FIBA and lost with HCA three years in a row including when having 2 other stars on his team and one of which is a proven winner.

Also he couldn't even with this production on his team in the finals.

Wade
26.5 PPG


Bosh
18.5 PPG

Lebron
17.8 PPG

[che guevara]

I've said the exact same thing to many friends. I've also referenced his last few months last year shooting 56% multiple times on this board. One thing to keep in mind though last year, was that the efficiency wasn't just getting used to playing with Wade/Bosh, it was the fact that his midrange all of a sudden became like a free throw to him. He shot 60% in March and 55% in April in his 16-23 ft jumpers. That's not happening for an entire season for any player in the league.

So yeah, I'd agree to the ~56% estimation for the year if he avoids taking as many 3s as in the past, assuming he does start to take a few more.
56-58% seems like a good estimate. Looking at his numbers on hoopdata it doesn't seem unsustainable at all - I expect his percentage at the rim to dip by a couple points, but nothing big (he's being assisted on a much higher percentage of his layups/dunks this year), though his percentage from 3-9 feet is going to have to come down quite a bit. 75% is obviously unsustainable, but he's only taking 1.5 shots from that range per game so even a 25% drop wouldn't have much impact at all on his efficiency. And his numbers from 10-23 are down from last year, I'd bet he finishes around 45% from there instead of his current 42%.

It's ridiculous how good Lebron's been this year, shooting over 60% so far despite his jumper being a bit off.

[Deuce Bigalow]

If he wins an NBA Finals MVP this year. He's going to be a top 11 player of all time. LeBron needs to win at least 2 Finals MVP to beat Hakeem and Kobe at the no.9 and no.10 spot.
http://dalje.com/slike/slike_3/r1/g2008/m09/y181485734316721.jpg
http://lakernation.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/laughing.jpg

[kentatm]

per 48 = worthless stat

[SlayerEnraged]

Unless Wade starts being better than 18ppg, there's gonna be no finals mvp opportunities.

[9erEmpire]

30 ppg @ 60% FG, 80% FT (66% TS)
8 rpg
8 apg
2 spg
1 bpg
36 minutes

PER 48 minutes that makes it:

40 ppg
11 rpg
11 apg
3 spg
2 bpg

hence why:

PER - 36.8 (highest of all time)
EFF - 35.4 (highest of all time)

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/per-alltime1.png


Now i know its a bit early...... and that PER thing will drop... but the way he is playing right now i dont see a sign of it dropping to much aka. drop out of #1.... :D

I don't know what those numbers mean.

[Micku]

LeBron is having one hell of a start. I don't think he can keep it up, but it's pretty amazing how efficient he is so far.

Michael Jordan average 34 ppg on 63% shooting on the first six games in 1992, but he went down in shooting 52%. I think LBJ will go down to around 50%, but I don't think he'll go below 50% again this year.

[ballinhun8]

I'm looking at the paper (Boston Globe) and I'm looking at the box score from last night's Heat/Nets game and James had a very good line. But this thing, the thing that the OP mentioned, "Per", it doesn't show up for some reason.



Can someone tell me why it isn't in the box score? I mean supposedly LeBron is really good at getting this stat. Can you just show me in the box score where I can find it?

[9erEmpire]

I'm looking at the paper (Boston Globe) and I'm looking at the box score from last night's Heat/Nets game and James had a very good line. But this thing, the thing that the OP mentioned, "Per", it doesn't show up for some reason.



Can someone tell me why it isn't in the box score? I mean supposedly LeBron is really good at getting this stat. Can you just show me in the box score where I can find it?

not only that but I don't know what those numbers mean at all.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I don't know what those numbers mean.

Educate yourself.


Also view explanations by holding mouse over column headers
Tm -- Team
Lg -- League
G -- Games
MP -- Minutes Played
PER -- Player Efficiency Rating; a measure of per-minute production standardized such that the league average is 15.
TS% -- True Shooting Percentage; a measure of shooting effeciency that takes into account 2-point field goals, 3-point field goals, and free throws.
eFG% -- Effective Field Goal Percentage; this statistic adjusts for the fact that a 3-point field goal is worth one more point than a 2-point field goal.
ORB% -- Offensive Rebound Percentage; an estimate of the percentage of available offensive rebounds a player grabbed while he was on the floor.
DRB% -- Defensive Rebound Percentage; an estimate of the percentage of available defensive rebounds a player grabbed while he was on the floor.
TRB% -- Total Rebound Percentage; an estimate of the percentage of available rebounds a player grabbed while he was on the floor.
AST% -- Assist Percentage; an estimate of the percentage of teammate field goals a player assisted while he was on the floor.
STL% -- Steal Percentage; an estimate of the percentage of opponent possessions that end with a steal by the player while he was on the floor.
BLK% -- Block Percentage; an estimate of the percentage of opponent two-point field goal attempts blocked by the player while he was on the floor.
TOV% -- Turnover Percentage; an estimate of turnovers per 100 plays.
USG% -- Usage Percentage; an estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor.
ORtg -- Offensive Rating; an estimate of points produced (players) or scored (teams) per 100 possessions.
DRtg -- Defensive Rating; an estimate of points allowed per 100 possessions.
OWS -- Offensive Win Shares; an estimate of the number of wins contributed by a player due to his offense.
DWS -- Defensive Win Shares; an estimate of the number of wins contributed by a player due to his defense.
WS -- Win Shares; an estimate of the number of wins contributed by a player.
WS/48 -- Win Shares Per 48 Minutes; an estimate of the number of wins contributed by a player per 48 minutes (league average is approximately .100)

[9erEmpire]

Educate yourself.

you explained and I don't know why league average is 15?

I have no idea what 20, 33, 42, 947 PER means?

sorry.

[strifed169]

Like the Nets announcers said about LBJ's stats, 99% of players in the league would be happy to end up with his season numbers for a single game

[ballinhun8]

Educate yourself.



Like iLebowski said, that's the way I also rank my NBA Players :D

[Purch]

More efficient than these guys ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50%E2%80%9340%E2%80%9390_Club

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

you explained and I don't know why league average is 15?

I have no idea what 20, 33, 42, 947 PER means?

sorry.

PER takes into account positive accomplishments, such as field goals, free throws, 3-pointers, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals, and negative ones, such as missed shots, turnovers and personal fouls. The formula adds positive stats and subtracts negative ones through a statistical point value system. The rating for each player is then adjusted to a per-minute basis so that, for example, substitutes can be compared with starters in playing time debates. It is also adjusted for the team's pace. In the end, one number sums up the players' statistical accomplishments for that season.

The league average is 15.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Like iLebowski said, that's the way I also rank my NBA Players :D

It's not meant to be an end-all-be-all (sole) statistic to rank players. For instance PER doesn't really take defense into account (man-to-man, help d, etc). I use it, just like I use other advanced measures (and non-adjusted stats). I use everything including watching the games.

I like PER because it adjusts for possessions and era's though.

[9erEmpire]

PER takes into account positive accomplishments, such as field goals, free throws, 3-pointers, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals, and negative ones, such as missed shots, turnovers and personal fouls. The formula adds positive stats and subtracts negative ones through a statistical point value system. The rating for each player is then adjusted to a per-minute basis so that, for example, substitutes can be compared with starters in playing time debates. It is also adjusted for the team's pace. In the end, one number sums up the players' statistical accomplishments for that season.

The league average is 15.

is a 15...a good year then compared to 17?

[Legends66NBA7]

Basically for those who don't know about which number is which for PER, here is a reference guide from John Hollinger:

"Hollinger has set up PER so that the league average, every season, is 15.00"

-A Year For the Ages: 35.0
-Runaway MVP Candidate: 30.0
-Strong MVP Candidate: 27.5
-Weak MVP Candidate: 25.0
-Bona fide All-Star: 22.5
-Borderline All-Star: 20.0
-Solid 2nd option: 18.0
-3rd Banana: 16.5
-Pretty good player: 15.0
-In the rotation: 13.0
-Scrounging for minutes: 11.0
-Definitely renting: 9.0
-The Next Stop: DLeague 5.0

[9erEmpire]

Basically for those who don't know about which number is which for PER, here is a reference guide from John Hollinger:

"Hollinger has set up PER so that the league average, every season, is 15.00"

-A Year For the Ages: 35.0
-Runaway MVP Candidate: 30.0
-Strong MVP Candidate: 27.5
-Weak MVP Candidate: 25.0
-Bona fide All-Star: 22.5
-Borderline All-Star: 20.0
-Solid 2nd option: 18.0
-3rd Banana: 16.5
-Pretty good player: 15.0
-In the rotation: 13.0
-Scrounging for minutes: 11.0
-Definitely renting: 9.0
-The Next Stop: DLeague 5.0

What about a 46 vs 35?

What about Finals MVP? How long is the PER for that?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

is a 15...a good year then compared to 17?

15 PER is average, just like the stat suggests. a 17+ (and so on) would be above average.

[Legends66NBA7]

What about a 46 vs 35?

Wasn't described in the guide for any PER 40+. So obviously the PER of 46 >35 according to the statistic.

I don't use it though (just another view point for me), but the norm is that something like a PER of 46 is absurd and far more productive than an already very high PER of 35.

[Legends66NBA7]

What about Finals MVP? How long is the PER for that?

Basically, this is the formula:

uPER = (1 / MP) * [ 3P + (2/3) * AST + (2 - factor * (team_AST / team_FG)) * FG + (FT *0.5 * (1 + (1 - (team_AST / team_FG)) + (2/3) * (team_AST / team_FG))) - VOP * TOV - VOP * DRB% * (FGA - FG) - VOP * 0.44 * (0.44 + (0.56 * DRB%)) * (FTA - FT) + VOP * (1 - DRB%) * (TRB - ORB) + VOP * DRB% * ORB + VOP * STL + VOP * DRB% * BLK - PF * ((lg_FT / lg_PF) - 0.44 * (lg_FTA / lg_PF) * VOP) ]

Kuniva mentioned the guidelines from before.

So the PER for the Finals MVP wouldn't be anything "too long", it all depends on the minutes played, pace, etc...

[madmax]

What about a 46 vs 35?

What about Finals MVP? How long is the PER for that?

a PER of 46 obviously means that a guy is producing crazy numbers on court...this is not rocket science really:lol

[9erEmpire]

a PER of 46 obviously means that a guy is producing crazy numbers on court...this is not rocket science really:lol

what would be the stat line?

[baccano]

what would be the stat line?


I think your trolling, but nevertheless, multiple statelines can give you the same PER, its a formula after all, you can increase one variable and decrease another so that you end up with the same PER.

[Dengness9]

Most productive/efficient season ever, who cares??


He has to win the championship and nothing else matters.


/thread

[Lakers13]

Most productive/efficient season ever, who cares??


He has to win the championship and nothing else matters.


/thread

Truth

[Lebron23]

Most productive/efficient season ever, who cares??


He has to win the championship and nothing else matters.


/thread


I think LeBron is capable of winning an NBA Finals MVP before he turns 30. Hakeem, Kobe, and Dirkn won their first NBA Finals MVP in their 30's. I don't see the Bulls or any of the Eastern Conference teams beating them in a best of 7 series, and the Heat also match up pretty well againts the OKC Thunder, Current Los Angeles Lakers, Portland Trailblazers and the Current Dallas Mavericks.

[Dengness9]

I think LeBron is capable of winning an NBA Finals MVP before he turns 30. Hakeem, Kobe, and Dirkn won their first NBA Finals in their 30's. I don't see the Bulls or any of the Eastern Conference teams beating them in a best of 7 series, and the Heat also match up pretty well againts the OKC Thunder, Current Los Angeles Lakers, Portland Trailblazers and the Current Dallas Mavericks.


I dont disagree. However I have a feeling that if Lebron doesn't win this year, it will be a very bad sign for his career.


He shouldn't get any slack for not winning last year but some will give it to him. If the Heat don't win this year, NO EXCUSES.

thread/ x2

[All Net]

I dont disagree. However I have a feeling that if Lebron doesn't win this year, it will be a very bad sign for his career.


He shouldn't get any slack for not winning last year but some will give it to him. If the Heat don't win this year, NO EXCUSES.

thread/ x2

Agreed

they have the best team...there is no excuse for not winning it all. They have too much firepower and star talent not to.

When you have them getting good production out of their PG position..that should make them as close to unbeatable as you can get in this era.

[OldSchoolBBall]

as a talent, LeBron is better than MJ. BLASPHEMY. But it's true. take 4 random role players and put them on each side, LeBron wins and gets more stats.

This is ridiculous. '90-'93 Jordan against Lebron each with 4 random players and Jordan wins at least 70% of the time. He was clearly a better player and clearly more talented than Lebron. LMAO @ people who actually believe that Lebron is more TALENTED than Jordan. Wow. SMH. :oldlol:

[Simple Jack]

Most productive/efficient season ever, who cares??


He has to win the championship and nothing else matters.


/thread

People should care. It's a hell of an accomplishment. If it really happened to to be the most productive/efficient season ever; we would be witnessing something that has never in the history of the NBA happened before. That's something special.

Appreciate great performances for what it is. It's as if every one of you are miserable watching any performance/games in the regular season. Enjoy good basketball and worry about the playoffs when they come. Any great performance during these 66 games, no matter how awesome, can be relegated to "who cares, it's the regular season". Is that really how you guys think?

[Unforgiven]

Any great performance during these 66 games, no matter how awesome, can be relegated to "who cares, it's the regular season". Is that really how you guys think?

Good post overall. If LBJ/anyone else produced and continued on a stateline like this, it would be pretty remarkable. Sure there are bigger fish though, i.e. the playoffs/finals.

[arifgokcen]

This is ridiculous. '90-'93 Jordan against Lebron each with 4 random players and Jordan wins at least 70% of the time. He was clearly a better player and clearly more talented than Lebron. LMAO @ people who actually believe that Lebron is more TALENTED than Jordan. Wow. SMH. :oldlol:
Actually when it comes to talent,there is no one that can be compared to lebron.Talent is entirely different than skill.Its natural ability to play the game you dont work on it, however you work on your skills.Probably he is the most talented wing player of all time.However that doesnt mean he is better than MJ,Kobe,Bird,Magic,Oscar.That just means he has the most tools at his disposal to play basketball.

[DRose1899]

Appreciate great performances for what it is. It's as if every one of you are miserable watching any performance/games in the regular season. Enjoy good basketball and worry about the playoffs when they come. Any great performance during these 66 games, no matter how awesome, can be relegated to "who cares, it's the regular season". Is that really how you guys think?
Adrian Dantley. People will jacking off to him all the time then if that's not the case.

[Doctor Rivers]

Actually when it comes to talent,there is no one that can be compared to lebron.Talent is entirely different than skill.Its natural ability to play the game you dont work on it, however you work on your skills.Probably he is the most talented wing player of all time.However that doesnt mean he is better than MJ,Kobe,Bird,Magic,Oscar.That just means he has the most tools at his disposal to play basketball.

+1

[madmax]

Actually when it comes to talent,there is no one that can be compared to lebron.Talent is entirely different than skill.Its natural ability to play the game you dont work on it, however you work on your skills.Probably he is the most talented wing player of all time.However that doesnt mean he is better than MJ,Kobe,Bird,Magic,Oscar.That just means he has the most tools at his disposal to play basketball.

:bowdown:
A voice of reason to silence all Space Jam generation tards

[guy]

Actually when it comes to talent,there is no one that can be compared to lebron.Talent is entirely different than skill.Its natural ability to play the game you dont work on it, however you work on your skills.Probably he is the most talented wing player of all time.However that doesnt mean he is better than MJ,Kobe,Bird,Magic,Oscar.That just means he has the most tools at his disposal to play basketball.

Even with that being the case, not sure you can really say he's a greater talent then Jordan. You're basically talking about god-given abilities. The only thing that Lebron has over Jordan is strength and height. Two huge things no doubt. But Jordan has arguably a significant edge in speed, quickness, body control, and footwork. Especially the latter two. Regardless of who has the edge, they aren't far off from each other.

When it comes to skills though, there is no debate.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Actually when it comes to talent,there is no one that can be compared to lebron.Talent is entirely different than skill.Its natural ability to play the game you dont work on it, however you work on your skills.Probably he is the most talented wing player of all time.However that doesnt mean he is better than MJ,Kobe,Bird,Magic,Oscar.That just means he has the most tools at his disposal to play basketball.

Jordan was, at the very least, a comparable athlete, and then on top of that was BY FAR the more creative and instinctual player. He revolutionized the game and influenced an entire generation of players. Yeah, I'm sure Lebron is "more talented" than him. :oldlol:

People really have no clue what TALENT means. Here's a clue: Larry Bird is one of the most TALENTED players ever. Yes, he was also one of the most SKILLED players ever, but he was also one of the most talented.

[ganja0710]

Cool..... but we all know Lebron is the better player, he would have also have won easy championships if he would have played in a weak era (90s) on a stacked team.
:roll:

[pegasus]

Even with that being the case, not sure you can really say he's a greater talent then Jordan. You're basically talking about god-given abilities. The only thing that Lebron has over Jordan is strength and height. Two huge things no doubt. But Jordan has arguably a significant edge in speed, quickness, body control, and footwork. Especially the latter two. Regardless of who has the edge, they aren't far off from each other.

When it comes to skills though, there is no debate.

+1.

Even I admit that Lebron is one of the most talented players ever, up there with Jordan and Shaq. But "skills" is something else. He's working on it, though. I gotta give him that.

We'll see how he does in the "mental" department when the things get rough in the playoffs (if they even do; if they don't, I can see him front-running his way to his first FMVP).

[RRR3]

Even with that being the case, not sure you can really say he's a greater talent then Jordan. You're basically talking about god-given abilities. The only thing that Lebron has over Jordan is strength and height. Two huge things no doubt. But Jordan has arguably a significant edge in speed, quickness, body control, and footwork. Especially the latter two. Regardless of who has the edge, they aren't far off from each other.

When it comes to skills though, there is no debate.
http://www.memecreator.net/futurama-fry/showimage.php/421/-NOT-SURE-IF-SERIOUS.jpg

[Rnbizzle]

I think I'm ready to say Lebron James is probably the most talented basketball player of all time (that I have seen footage of).

Sure he may lack killer instinct, and he isn't the biggest winner in the game, but if we look at what players can do on the court? I really believe he could average 40 points a game if he wanted to at this point.

[Bigsmoke]

LeBron is da shit.

[FireDavidKahn]

Jordan was, at the very least, a comparable athlete, and then on top of that was BY FAR the more creative and instinctual player. He revolutionized the game and influenced an entire generation of players. Yeah, I'm sure Lebron is "more talented" than him. :oldlol:

People really have no clue what TALENT means. Here's a clue: Larry Bird is one of the most TALENTED players ever. Yes, he was also one of the most SKILLED players ever, but he was also one of the most talented.
Exactly. That's why people always say players like McGee have talent, they don't. They are just prime physical specimens that can't play basketball.

[guy]

I think I'm ready to say Lebron James is probably the most talented basketball player of all time (that I have seen footage of).

Sure he may lack killer instinct, and he isn't the biggest winner in the game, but if we look at what players can do on the court? I really believe he could average 40 points a game if he wanted to at this point.

Think you can say that about alot of players in history.

[Sarcastic]

http://www.memecreator.net/futurama-fry/showimage.php/421/-NOT-SURE-IF-SERIOUS.jpg

I don't know if Jordan was significantly faster, but I think he was faster than Lebron.

[OldSchoolBBall]

http://www.memecreator.net/futurama-fry/showimage.php/421/-NOT-SURE-IF-SERIOUS.jpg

Yeah, he's serious. Equal/greater speed in the fullcourt, and easily faster and more explosive in the halfcourt (first step, point A to point B speed etc.).

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

NOT-SURE-IF-SERIOUS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFeNQWVa0RQ#t=2m55s

[Rnbizzle]

By the way.. There is no way in hell Jordan was faster than Lebron. He was better at a few things but he as hell wasn't faster.

Jordan fanboys for some reason seem to believe that Jordan was superior to anyone in any given category. :facepalm

[Sarcastic]

By the way.. There is no way in hell Jordan was faster than Lebron. He was better at a few things but he as hell wasn't faster.

Jordan fanboys for some reason seem to believe that Jordan was superior to anyone in any given category. :facepalm

Pretty sure he ran the 40 faster than Lebron. I know he ran it at 4.3 when he was young. I don't think Lebron ever ran it that fast.

[Legends66NBA7]

By the way.. There is no way in hell Jordan was faster than Lebron. He was better at a few things but he as hell wasn't faster.

Jordan fanboys for some reason seem to believe that Jordan was superior to anyone in any given category. :facepalm

Do you know what Jordan and LeBron run in a 40 yard dash ?

[guy]

By the way.. There is no way in hell Jordan was faster than Lebron. He was better at a few things but he as hell wasn't faster.

Jordan fanboys for some reason seem to believe that Jordan was superior to anyone in any given category. :facepalm

I swear its posts like this that make me think that people don't know pre-95 Jordan ever existed.

[brownmamba00]

By the way.. There is no way in hell Jordan was faster than Lebron. He was better at a few things but he as hell wasn't faster.

Jordan fanboys for some reason seem to believe that Jordan was superior to anyone in any given category. :facepalm
Is this a joke?

[OldSchoolBBall]

By the way.. There is no way in hell Jordan was faster than Lebron. He was better at a few things but he as hell wasn't faster.

Jordan fanboys for some reason seem to believe that Jordan was superior to anyone in any given category. :facepalm

Jordan was EASILY and CLEARLY faster in the halfcourt than Lebron. This is not even up for debate - give me a fukcing break. :oldlol:

[Jasi]

It really is just a matter of definition.

For me talent = being naturally gifted skillwise

In this sense LeBron is very talented but far from being an all time great.
Actually if you take away his athleticism, he'd be a very good player but not the elite player he is.

[Rnbizzle]

Look at footage of Lebron in his athletic prime and the same for Jordan, you'll see a clear cut difference.

[6JamesIsKing]

30 ppg @ 60% FG, 80% FT (66% TS)
8 rpg
8 apg
2 spg
1 bpg
36 minutes

PER 48 minutes that makes it:

40 ppg
11 rpg
11 apg
3 spg
2 bpg

hence why:

PER - 36.8 (highest of all time)
EFF - 35.4 (highest of all time)

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/per-alltime1.png


Now i know its a bit early...... and that PER thing will drop... but the way he is playing right now i dont see a sign of it dropping to much aka. drop out of #1.... :D

Like I said/wrote in another forum. I haven't seen this type of level of play from a perimeter since Michael Jordan 91-93 run. It all comes down to what Lebron James does in the finals it what really counts though.

But I'm pretty sure with his high motivation this season he won't disappoint this season.

[Indian guy]

Jordan was EASILY and CLEARLY faster in the halfcourt than Lebron.

He was quicker, but you're exaggerating the difference. 04-10 LeBron was ridiculously quick in the half-court himself. Look up some full-game highlights of LeBron from his Cleveland days. The difference is minimal.

[OldSchoolBBall]

He was quicker, but you're exaggerating the difference. 04-10 LeBron was ridiculously quick in the half-court himself. Look up some full-game highlights of LeBron from his Cleveland days. The difference is minimal.

No, the difference is not minimal. From a stand-still/triple-threat, change of pace etc. 23-27 year old MJ was clearly faster than 23-27 year old Lebron. Here's MJ at age 33:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dARp3MYkeQM#t=1m41s

Please find me a clip of Lebron going from a face-up to full speed that quickly, and getting to the basket from a stand-still that quickly. This is Jordan WELL past his athletic prime, btw. The difference in halfcourt speed - that is, speed in situations in which one commonly finds themselves in in the halfcourt as opposed to a wide open full-court sprint, such as triple-threat, change of paces off of P&R's etc. - is stark.

Here's prime/young MJ from like 1990 or 1991:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPRyG5bOOtY&lc=U_XO4bAPVN0mxp7Q2-c3L5CQUiXYiZ5wX1uFQOfhBEA&feature=inbox#t=12m33s

Look from the point where he makes his initial hard move to the basket - he's 33 feet out and at the rim in an instant.

Here's rookie Jordan going from 40+ feet out to a dunk in under 2.5 seconds, while changing direction twice and doing an in-and-out dribble, crossover, and several juke moves - ridiculous speed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMYzaW46a68#t=4m30s

As I said, Jordan covered ground in the halfcourt clearly faster than Lebron, and, more importantly, was more explosive in terms of acceleration from a stand-still or change of pace dribble.

[tpols]

No, the difference is not minimal. From a stand-still/triple-threat, change of pace etc. 23-27 year old MJ was clearly faster than 23-27 year old Lebron. Here's MJ at age 33:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dARp3MYkeQM#t=1m41s

Please find me a clip of Lebron going from a face-up to full speed that quickly, and getting to the basket from a stand-still that quickly. This is Jordan WELL past his athletic prime, btw. The difference in halfcourt speed - that is, speed in situations in which one commonly finds themselves in in the halfcourt as opposed to a wide open full-court sprint, such as triple-threat, change of paces off of P&R's etc. - is stark.

Here's prime/young MJ from like 1990 or 1991:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPRyG5bOOtY&lc=U_XO4bAPVN0mxp7Q2-c3L5CQUiXYiZ5wX1uFQOfhBEA&feature=inbox#t=12m33s

Look from the point where he makes his initial hard move to the basket - he's 33 feet out and at the rim in an instant.

Here's rookie Jordan going from 40+ feet out to a dunk in under 2.5 seconds, while changing direction twice and doing an in-and-out dribble, crossover, and several juke moves - ridiculous speed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMYzaW46a68#t=4m30s

As I said, Jordan covered ground in the halfcourt clearly faster than Lebron, and, more importantly, was more explosive in terms of acceleration from a stand-still or change of pace dribble.
Lebron was easily faster and more explosive in open court/fastbreak situations.. and I just watched all three of your examples there. Also gotta factor in that Lebron was 50+lbs heavier and MUCH stronger with more speed[not quickness] and similar vertical.. much more dangerous.

[Indian guy]

No, the difference is not minimal. From a stand-still/triple-threat

This is the only area where MJ has a significant edge, since LeBron's first step is rather ordinary. That is why LeBron rarely ever played from the triple-threat in his athletic prime. He was more a top-of-the-key player, where he could attack with a live dribble.

Check out the following clips and tell me if there's more than a minimal difference between MJ and LeBron in half-court quickness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8qhHWGNxyw&t=1m29s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8qhHWGNxyw&t=3m23s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8qhHWGNxyw&t=12m12s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br_873gjg2c&t=2m59s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br_873gjg2c&t=3m25s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apPqmPDNFDE&t=56s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apPqmPDNFDE&t=1m6s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apPqmPDNFDE&t=4m37s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqE-DrcWV6I&feature=related&t=42s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqE-DrcWV6I&feature=related&t=4m32s

[bwink23]

This is the only area where MJ has a significant edge, since LeBron's first step is rather ordinary. That is why LeBron rarely ever played from the triple-threat in his athletic prime. He was more a top-of-the-key player, where he could attack with a live dribble.

Check out the following clips and tell me if there's more than a minimal difference between MJ and LeBron in half-court quickness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8qhHWGNxyw&t=1m29s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8qhHWGNxyw&t=3m23s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8qhHWGNxyw&t=12m12s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br_873gjg2c&t=2m59s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br_873gjg2c&t=3m25s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apPqmPDNFDE&t=56s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apPqmPDNFDE&t=1m6s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apPqmPDNFDE&t=4m37s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqE-DrcWV6I&feature=related&t=42s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqE-DrcWV6I&feature=related&t=4m32s


Michael Jordan


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvAf8jY0JX0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuwIlcVsHmU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usS0bF9V8j8

[DevilsAssassin]

Derrick Rose speed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEs8Vpdvxz8

1:51 Holy Shit!!!

[lpublic_enemyl]

he took his heat for last year it's good to see him do so well this year thus far

[Dave3]

Derrick Rose speed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEs8Vpdvxz8

1:51 Holy Shit!!!
Have been saying for the past year, there's no one faster than him with the ball. The guy is like a freaking ninja.

PS. That's hardly the fastest I've ever seen him go

[Wade3]

Rose is the quickest player I've ever seen, he also has the best body control ever IMO

[DevilsAssassin]

Have been saying for the past year, there's no one faster than him with the ball. The guy is like a freaking ninja.

PS. That's hardly the fastest I've ever seen him go

Yeah but that was pretty ****ing fast!!

[2010splash]

Does anyone really care? When ranking players, are people going to forget Jordan's unmatched individual dominance in the playoffs/finals and team success compared to LeBron's repeated finals choke jobs and losing to teams with far inferior records all because LeBron might finish with the highest "PER" in some random regular season?

roflmao :roll:

LeBron can't hold Jordan's jock.

[pauk]

*update*

pace is still going strong....

After a couple of more games Lebron is now averaging:

30 ppg
8 rpg
8 apg
2 spg
1 bpg

58% FG
44% 3PT
73% FT (what a slacker lol)

PER & EFF has ofcourse increased, still at All-Time high #1 greatest PER rating in NBA history.......

lets see if he can keep this up

:applause:

Lebron is playing right now like a player you created on NBA 2K12 with all 99 ratings... except you forgot to fix the FreeThrow slider :oldlol:

[pauk]

Does anyone really care? When ranking players, are people going to forget Jordan's unmatched individual dominance in the playoffs/finals and team success compared to LeBron's repeated finals choke jobs and losing to teams with far inferior records all because LeBron might finish with the highest "PER" in some random regular season?

roflmao :roll:

LeBron can't hold Jordan's jock.

its not that complicated.... its very simple... its just the most all-round efficient/productive season ever...

take it however you wish... take it or leave it :cheers:

[chazzy]

http://i.imgur.com/Laxjv.jpg

Really though his numbers have been amazing so far.

[pauk]

lol Chazzy... figures...

[bwink23]

its not that complicated.... its very simple... its just the most all-round efficient/productive season ever...

take it however you wish... take it or leave it :cheers:



It still remains to be seen pauk....there is still ALOT of season left.

This is Jordan's statline after 13 games in 1989:

36.4ppg on 59%FG, 24 FG attempts.
7.2 rebs.
6.1 assists
3.5 steals
1.3 blocks
81.5%FT at 9.2 attempts
36.4% from 3 at 1.7 attempts.
3.8 turnovers per game.

i dont know what PER that is...but i bet it's pretty high.

[Nick Young]

regular season champion. it seems only fans of shit franchises and players care more about the regular season nothing games then they do important playoff games:facepalm

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

As great as LEbron is mj was even better. And lbj better win a lot of fmvps if he's gonna have a chance at sniffing goat. I do think lbj can be a top 5 player ever tho.

Championships are team accomplishments.

[knightfall88]

Championships are team accomplishments.

It's a team game

[pauk]

regular season champion. it seems only fans of shit franchises and players care more about the regular season nothing games then they do important playoff games:facepalm

Actually... he is the PLAYOFFS "champion" to as he holds the title for the most productive Playoff performer in the NBA today......... and the 3rd most productive playoff performer ever....

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/6467/careerplayoffper.jpg
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/7193/perplayoffs.jpg


next............

[EnoughSaid]

Dude is just beasting!! :bowdown: I swear this guy's prime may be just starting. Playing next to 2 other all-stars, and still being able to do everything. If this keeps up, or at least he's somewhere in the 29/7/7 on 50%+ FG range, then this might be one of the best seasons ever. :applause:

[pauk]

as far as Championships goes Nick Young (i know you want to touch that).....

the best team will always win the championship... not the best player... no matter how good that player is.... why? because this is not tennis.... its a team game and a championship is the biggest team accomplishment..........

thats why:

Wilt Chamberlain could not win a Championship until he was 30 something years old...
Shaquille Oneal could not win a Championship until he was 28 years old....
Michael Jordan could not win a Championship until he was 28 years old....
(and Kobe Bryant couldnt be "the man", fmvp and win a championship that way until he was 30 years old)
and so on and so on and so on

What the hell happened during those stages which allowed them to win a Championship?

Did they Improve? No... (well in only Kobes case yes)
Did they Play better in Playoffs? No....

Then what the hell? Simple............. they got better teammates, a better team....

Ok then why couldnt Kobe win a championship after Shaq left?

Did Kobe choke? No... quite the opposite
Did Kobe simply decline? No... quite the opposite

Then what the hell? Simple....... its a team game......... Shaq was one of the most dominant players ever... it took a while until Kobe got a great team again for him to get a Championship again.........

[Heavincent]

Actually... he is the PLAYOFFS "champion" to as he holds the title for the most productive Playoff performer in the NBA today......... and the 3rd most productive playoff performer ever....

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/6467/careerplayoffper.jpg
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/7193/perplayoffs.jpg


next............

It's too bad PER is a completely worthless stat.

[StateOfMind12]

Nobody in all honesty is going to care except for Lebron fans if he doesn't win. That is just a fact. If Lebron puts up 50/10/10 and still doesn't win a title then nobody is going to care.

[pauk]

It's too bad PER is a completely worthless stat.

Its not a stat....... its a RATING of STATS.... the official NBA stats............... doesnt take PER for you to realise who produces the best overall numbers night and night out.......

PER exists only so you dont have to take 100 years to scroll thru 500 players and compare their stats to figure who has the best stats.........

Im sure a poster of your Intelligence should know this....

[bwink23]

Jordan finished the last 33 games of the 1987-1988 season averaging 37.8ppg on 55%FG.

Just saying.

[Heavincent]

Its not a stat....... its a RATING of STATS............... doesnt take PER for you to realise who produces the best overall numbers night and night out.......

Whatever you wanna call it, it's completely worthless.

[pauk]

Whatever you wanna call it, it's completely worthless.

In Kobes case and Kobe stans case... yes... indeed.. stats are to be ignored... and only be focused upon PPG... and nothing else... anything that works against Kobe... should be ignored and be worthless!

[pauk]

Jordan finished the last 33 games of the 1987-1988 season averaging 37.8ppg on 55%FG.

Just saying.

I know... thats why he is right up there:

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/8967/careerseasonper.jpg

:bowdown:

[Heavincent]

In a Kobes case and Kobe stans case... yes... indeed.. stats are to be ignored... and only be focused upon PPG... and nothing else...

I don't even know what Kobe's PER is, and I don't care because it's just some stupid ****ing formula made up by some dipshit at ESPN.

[bwink23]

I know... thats why he is right up there:

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/8967/careerseasonper.jpg


I know what your saying here man...these dumb asses don't give Lebron near the credit he deserves for bringing it all-around every single night. He is UNMATCHED in this era from that standpoint, and it's not even close.


The level of disrespect is alarming, considering he's one of the greatest of all-time.

[ThatsGame]

I know what your saying here man...these dumb asses don't give Lebron near the credit he deserves for bringing it all-around every single night. He is UNMATCHED in this era from that standpoint, and it's not even close.


The level of disrespect is alarming, considering he's one of the greatest of all-time.

They are too ashamed to admit it, because they think it's cool to hate him.

That's the non-trolling, straight-up truth.

[Heavincent]

They are too ashamed to admit it, because they think it's cool to hate him.

That's the non-trolling, straight-up truth.

So ****ing ironic coming from you.

[pauk]

Heavincent......

I would do this same thread for Kobe or anybody else IF Kobe was doing this same thing......... its just respect for basketball, for history....... this is making history...... and YOU are spitting at it...

why? because you are a fan of somebody else? cmon heavincent.... hope you know how childish that is

[Heavincent]

Heavincent......

I would do this same thread for Kobe or anybody else IF Kobe was doing this same thing......... its just respect for basketball, for history....... this is making history...... and YOU are spitting at it...

I'm spitting at it? Go to the Spurs game thread and you'll see I gave props to Lebron.

And Kobe is making history too this season. Ridiculous longevity on display. Still a consensus top 2 player in his 16th season.

You're being too dramatic. I'm often just trying to rile up Lebron/Heat homers most of the time. Although I do think Lebron is overrated.

[EnoughSaid]

7 more games into the season, and LeBron is still playing at that insane level. Dude is just going HAM on the league. :bowdown:

[Droid101]

7 more games into the season, and LeBron is still playing at that insane level. Dude is just going HAM on the league. :bowdown:
How can you be happy about this?

LeBron cost the Heat a championship, and now you're cheering about his regular season performance, again?

Jesus Christ, LeBron fans will never, ever learn, will they? Just keep your mouth shut, and gloat after you get a ring.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Very impressive, no doubt. But if it doesn't translate into winning a title then I doubt he or anyone else will care when the season is over.

[Simple Jack]

How can you be happy about this?

LeBron cost the Heat a championship, and now you're cheering about his regular season performance, again?

Jesus Christ, LeBron fans will never, ever learn, will they? Just keep your mouth shut, and gloat after you get a ring.

Because it's a great performance. It's pathetic to look at everything in that regard; what fun is watching basketball if everything is relegated to "whatever, wait for the playoffs"? How can you appreciate anything with that attitude? Appreciate great basketball for what it is. The playoffs aren't until April.

[pauk]

Bump/Update

After another month Lebrons PER has dropped from 35 to 33.3... but he is still going strong, it doesnt change anything:

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/per-alltime1-1.png

[nathanjizzle]

Bump/Update

After another month Lebrons PER has dropped from 35 to 33.3... but he is still going strong, it doesnt change anything:

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/per-alltime1-1.png

delusional lebron fan that thinks he can do a windmill from the free throw line. Stats drop but it doesnt change anything:confusedshrug:

[pauk]

delusional lebron fan that thinks he can do a windmill from the free throw line. Stats drop but it doesnt change anything:confusedshrug:

Excuse me?

[RazorBaLade]

delusional lebron fan that thinks he can do a windmill from the free throw line. Stats drop but it doesnt change anything:confusedshrug:

well hes still first, it didnt change anything lol

[madmax]

:applause: :bowdown: :bowdown:
GOAT

[pauk]

:applause: :bowdown: :bowdown:
GOAT

lol
He just needs to start putting some damn rings on his fingers, i dont mind if he doesnt win one soon.... but i do mind him performing/stepping up where it matters, as long he does that then the rest is out of his hands, then there is nothing really to criticize.... unlike last Finals, that is unacceptable.... he has to be much more agressive next chance he gets.... there is no excuse this year...

[heyhey]

lol
He just needs to start putting some damn rings on his fingers, i dont mind if he doesnt win one soon.... but i do mind him performing/stepping up where it matters, as long he does that then the rest is out of his hands, then there is nothing really to criticize.... unlike last Finals, that is unacceptable.... he has to be much more agressive next chance he gets.... there is no excuse this year...


damn man I think you are setting yourself to get your heart broken again, Lebron gonna be standing around chewing his fingernail in the 4th quarter come playoff time.

enjoy the regular season tho

[pauk]

damn man I think you are setting yourself to get your heart broken again, Lebron gonna be standing around chewing his fingernail in the 4th quarter come playoff time.

enjoy the regular season tho

Come playoff time? Lebron has overall always stepped up his game and his 4th quarter/clutch game in the playoffs overall....... he was absolutely amazing in the 4th quarter / clutch last time in the playoffs thru 3 series against Sixers, Celtics, Bulls, the way he closed those teams out offensively & defensively was godlike....... he was only bad in that department after Game 1 of the Mavs series.... which made it even more disappointing for me, considering how awesome he was in the 4th/clutch the previous series....

That was by far the worst 4th quarter/clutch performance in a series of Lebrons career............. it was THAT bad.... not only couldnt he convert, but he had like only 2 freethrow attempts or something like that in the 4th in the entire series.............. it was THAT bad..... it was a freak accident... and it came at the worst time ever... only the last game he played against Mavs he scored more points and attempted more freethrows than what he did in the entire freakin series in the Finals.....

So if you think a similar series in the clutch/4th quarter will repeat itself then you are out of your effing mind........ i can guarantee you right now if that Mavs - Heat series was replayed at this given moment Lebron would have went insane.............

[The Iron Fist]

Because it's a great performance. It's pathetic to look at everything in that regard; what fun is watching basketball if everything is relegated to "whatever, wait for the playoffs"? How can you appreciate anything with that attitude? Appreciate great basketball for what it is. The playoffs aren't until April.
81 points> anything bron has done

[HurricaneKid]

81 points> anything bron has done

So not only does regular season count but a regular season game against a non-playoff team in Feb counts more than conference finals? Or is that just when your guy does something?

[Lebron23]

I hope he wins his 2nd scoring title this season.

[The Iron Fist]

just
So not only does regular season count but a regular season game against a non-playoff team in Feb counts more than conference finals? Or is that just when your guy does something?
Just following jacks line of thinking, appreciate great basketball. Kobe 81>> anything by bron.

[Jimmy2k8]

Bump/Update

After another month Lebrons PER has dropped from 35 to 33.3... but he is still going strong, it doesnt change anything:

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/per-alltime1-1.png

Funny how out of all the players listed(Wilt, Lebron, and Jordan), only 1991 Jordan won a championship when he had a 31 PER or above.

[ballinhun8]

Any type of formula that says a guy scoring 28 ppg on 55% is better then avg 50/20 shouldn't be a basis for any type of argument.