Why does Lebron James shrink in clutch situation?

[juju151111]

He wasn't this bad on Cle. I remember Lebric k hitting Gamewinners with the Cavs all the time. Since he has been on the Heat he seems to either brick it or looks like he is scared to take the shot. I think the media got to him and just doesn't have the killer instinct when everyone isn't on his side. He missed like 6 gamewinners last season. Derrick Rose and Kobe never look scared even if they end up missing. Lol Lebrick needs to man the hell up. The funny thing is if he is able to win 1 ring he would skyrocket up the alltime list because his stats are that good, but I guess stats is all he has. He ain't no Jordan

[Bladers]

He's scared to fail.



WallaceHeatNBA Michael Wallace
Truth is LeBron wanted no part of that shot. It was essentially forced on him, I guess.
9 minutes ago

WallaceHeatNBA Michael Wallace
I disagree, fellas. This wasn't "hero ball" for Heat. It was "he-bailed-out-in-the-fourth" ball. Bad loss. But it's 1 game.
5 minutes ago


Everyone sees it. Its time his fanboys admit it.

[chips93]

he had 2pts and 2 dimes in OT. not bad. hes splitting cunch-time scoring dutie with wade.

he forced that three though.

[knightfall88]

in before "the man averaged a near triple double, what else do you want him to do?"

"Wade didn't do a good enough job feeding him the ball"

"Bosh is soft, they have no real bigs"

[nba_55]

He scared and isnt confident.

The thing that kills is not the fact that he doesnt make the final shot.
What kills me is the fact that he doesnt even try in the 4th quarter.
I dont care if you miss a shot or a layup. Atleast show some intensity.
Dont stand around and do nothing.

[Chaddai]

To be honest, Spoelstra shouldnt even have drew up a play for Lebron to shoot a 3 today. Lebron cutted down his 3 point shooting ,so he isnt in rhythm with it and also not very comfortable.

[Mr. Jabbar]

He joined the heat so he could let wade take over in the 4th, he knows he can't handle pressure, this has become more obvious with every passing game.

Lebron James, the cleveland ditching and the miami super trio are a disrespect to the game of bball.

Thank god we still have Kobe Bryant, new era stars are weak.

[Bladers]

he had 2pts and 2 dimes in OT. not bad. hes splitting cunch-time scoring dutie with wade.

he forced that three though.

Dude are you serious? The fcking lawyers are out today.UNFCKING BELIEVEABLE!
He had NO FG Atempt in the 4th QUARTER!!!
He will always be the little boy that's scared of the ball in the 4th quarter!

[Indian guy]

Loss of ability resulting in loss of confidence.

[Eric Cartman]

That 3 he took wasn't an easy shot so i'll give him a pass, he had to let it go.
I think today was more Spoelstra not putting his player to succeed at the end of the game.

[UtahJazzFan88]

He's scared to fail.



Everyone sees it. Its time his fanboys admit it.

Is there a GIF out there of him missing the shot? :lol

[chips93]

He had NO FG Atempt in the 4th QUARTER!!!
Dude are you serious? The fcking lawyers are out today.

UNFCKING BELIEVEABLE!


He will always be the little boy that's scared of the ball in the 4th quarter!

my bad, i only watched the very end of the forth onwards

[Mr. Jabbar]

That 3 he took wasn't an easy shot so i'll give him a pass, he had to let it go.
I think today was more Spoelstra not putting his player to succeed at the end of the game.

its not that particular 3. he had no fg's in the 4th, its just pathetic...

[juju151111]

He joined the heat so he could let wade take over in the 4th, he knows he can't handle pressure, this has become more obvious with every passing game.

Lebron James, the cleveland ditching and the miami super trio are a disrespect to the game of bball.

Thank god we still have Kobe Bryant, new era stars are weak.
He could handle the pressure through in cle. Why? He was hitting gamewinners at a high % Since he came to maimi he just looks shooked out their.

[artest 93]

Too much pressure and he's afraid of blame, obviously. At this point, he's better off taking 5-10 FG's in the 4th and shooting 30-40% then not taking any and he needs to realize or accept this.

In CLE, win or lose, LeBron was blameless. Now it's different but he has to adjust to it. It's only regular season so I hope he finds a way to overcome this. If it's the last quarter of the game and they are down, he knows the announcers, newspapers, CLE, and co. are watching.

Don't think he would have caved if it was in Miami, though. With this guy, it's just so much thinking and feelings involved. Wish he would just be like "I do whatever I want".

[G-Funk]

cause he's a homo

[nba_55]

Loss of ability resulting in loss of confidence.
:facepalm
He hasnt loss anything.
It s all mental.

[EllisGW]

yeah a meaningless game 10 of regular and lebron was soooo scared against the warriors.

[305Baller]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxf8j9uIwe1qdlh1io1_250.gif

because of this.

[Eric Cartman]

I'm going with lack of playoff success (winning a ring) combined with the fact that he had quite a few misses at the end of the games, losing in a humiliating sweep vs San Antonio & losing to the Celtics in 2010 when the Cavs were big favorites all has left this man with zero confidence come pressure time.

You'd have to be crazier than a fish with titties to not believe this.

[UtahJazzFan88]

I'm going with lack of playoff success (winning a ring) combined with the fact that he had quite a few misses at the end of the games, losing in a humiliating sweep vs San Antonio & losing to the Celtics in 2010 when the Cavs were big favorites all has left this man with zero confidence come pressure time.

You'd have to be crazier than a fish with titties to not believe this.

LeBron's jump shot is pretty suspect IMO, still doesn't impress me with his jumper, which doesn't help down the stretch either.

[Simple Jack]

Too much pressure and he's afraid of blame, obviously. At this point, he's better off taking 5-10 FG's in the 4th and shooting 30-40% then not taking any and he needs to realize or accept this.

In CLE, win or lose, LeBron was blameless. Now it's different but he has to adjust to it. It's only regular season so I hope he finds a way to overcome this. If it's the last quarter of the game and they are down, he knows the announcers, newspapers, CLE, and co. are watching.

Don't think he would have caved if it was in Miami, though. With this guy, it's just so much thinking and feelings involved. Wish he would just be like "I do whatever I want".

In regards to the "being afraid of blame" thought; he gets it regardless. Maybe even more so when someone else on the team hits the big shot, or he passes it. It would make sense if the media acted like nothing happened if the Heat fail NOT because of LeBron missing the last shot but that's clearly not the case.

[Eric Cartman]

LeBron's jump shot is pretty suspect IMO, still doesn't impress me with his jumper, which doesn't help down the stretch either.

You can't just bulldose ur way into the lane in crunch time is what u are getting at?

[StateOfMind12]

A large part of it is because he is a front-runner. Anytime adversity hits or things turn bad Lebron wants to completely disappear from the spotlight (e.g. 2011 NBA Finals). Lebron simply has a weak mentality. He loses his confidence faster than any other star player does.

[Simple Jack]

A large part of it is because he is a front-runner. Anytime adversity hits or things turn bad Lebron wants to completely disappear from the spotlight (e.g. 2011 NBA Finals). Lebron simply has a weak mentality. He loses his confidence faster than any other star player does.

They were down 0-1 vs the Bulls in the ECF (his only bad game in the series). He proceeded to hit clutch shots with ease during that series.

[jlip]

I'm as frustrated by Lebron's passiveness in the Finals and this season in the 4th quarter, but I see it as him foolishly buying into a system. What makes me feel that it's the Heat's "system" is because all things changed basically overnight. He completely dominated both the Celtics and the Bulls in the playoffs during clutch situations. While there was no need for any 4th quarter heroics in game 1 of the Finals, he was the best player in that game. Then...

Game 2 of the Finals happened. He didn't come through that game, and then everything changed. We all saw D-Wade's post game interviews after that game during the Finals where he was saying that he was "the leader" and it was "his team." These are statements he had not made all season long. Also, as I said in an earlier post, Bosh said on First Take that the Heat have made Wade their "closer" (www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1fOB9VDPnk&feature=related#t=3m24s). (Click on the link.) Lebron stupidly accepts that, and frankly doesn't know how to play when the offense isn't run through him. I honestly feels that he needs a little of the Jordan and Kobe mentality which says..."To hell with the system! I'm hot tonight and nobody can hold me." But he won't do that.

[Rocker09]

Lebron is the best all around player in the NBA but he seems to lack the killer instinct that other great players have. Players like kobe, jordan, bird, ray allen, miller, etc are not afraid to take a shot even if there's a possibility that they will miss. Even if they already missed 9 in a row, they'll still be willing to take additional shots without losing any confidence.

There are times that he'll miss but he needs to remember that as one of the leaders of the heat, he has the responsibility to take the big shots in the 4th qtr...

[tpols]

They were down 0-1 vs the Bulls in the ECF (his only bad game in the series). He proceeded to hit clutch shots with ease during that series.
That wasn't nearly as bad as their game 2 collapse.. not close really. One was a simple loss against a team where they were being outhuslted[Chi dominated the glass that game], and the other was a huge collapse that clearly swung the momentum of the series and put a shit load of adversity onto the Heat. Huge difference.

[EllisGW]

Lebron is the best all around player in the NBA but he seems to lack the killer instinct that other great players have. Players like kobe, jordan, bird, ray allen, miller, etc are not afraid to take a shot even if there's a possibility that they will miss. Even if they already missed 9 in a row, they'll still be willing to take additional shots without losing any confidence.

There are times that he'll miss but he needs to remember that as one of the leaders of the heat, he has the responsibility to take the big shots in the 4th qtr...


finally a good post

[Simple Jack]

That wasn't nearly as bad as their game 2 collapse.. not close really. One was a simple loss against a team where they were being outhuslted[Chi dominated the glass that game], and the other was a huge collapse that clearly swung the momentum of the series and put a shit load of adversity onto the Heat. Huge difference.

I'm not comparing. I'm just making a point regarding him not playing well any time there is adversity.

[Fawker]

he wants no ownership. he relinquished the role of carrying 100 percent of any burden by being a bitch made after the decision. it's not his team, not even 50 / 50. wade recruited him and he wants to play the role of the recruitee.

[royalbluecosby]

To be honest, Spoelstra shouldnt even have drew up a play for Lebron to shoot a 3 today. Lebron cutted down his 3 point shooting ,so he isnt in rhythm with it and also not very comfortable.

Spoelstra didn't want lebron to shoot that 3.

[JerrySteakhouse]

Dumb thread. Didn't hear this shit when he was torching Celtics and Bulls in crunch time in the playoffs...

[SacJB Shady]

Im not surprised but nobody gives Lee any credit for guarding him. Instead it's just Lebrons fault.

[JerrySteakhouse]

Im not surprised but nobody gives Lee any credit for guarding him. Instead it's just Lebrons fault.
These kids haven't played basketball in their life. They watch the ball not the court and have no idea wtf is going on. Typical ISH.

[tpols]

I'm not comparing. I'm just making a point regarding him not playing well any time there is adversity.
True.

I think it's just when pressure gets heavy he starts to give up a little. Like, this was Wade's first big game in a while.. and it's almost like Lebron was conceding to him in the end, not wanting to fvck it up for him or the team. But thats just a bad mentality. He's got to learn to just say fvck it and play some basketball.

[jrong]

While there was no need for any 4th quarter heroics in game 1 of the Finals, he was the best player in that game. Then...

No need for 4th quarter heroics in Game 1? I think you better go back and watch that game again. Just because a team doesn't win by only a couple points doesn't mean they don't have a 4th quarter hero, and the hero in that 4th quarter wasn't LeBron, nor was he the best player in that game.

As for LeBron's struggles generally in those situations, it's part mental and part the law of averages. He was very clutch in those situations with the Cavs. He hasn't been able to do it successfully with the Heat, but he'll get his chances, and there will be times that he'll succeed.

[tpols]

Dumb thread. Didn't hear this shit when he was torching Celtics and Bulls in crunch time in the playoffs...
They were dominating those series. Of course Lebron can give you clutch shots and chest bumps with DWade when he's winning.. Game 2 of the finals.. Bulls Series.. especially at the end of the Celtic's series up 3-1. But what happens when his team loses momentum like.. at the end of game 2 in the finals.. game 5 in 2010 against the C's.. this game tonight with the huge comeback. His balls just shrink when someone suckerpunches him.

[Simple Jack]

True.

I think it's just when pressure gets heavy he starts to give up a little. Like, this was Wade's first big game in a while.. and it's almost like Lebron was conceding to him in the end, not wanting to fvck it up for him or the team. But thats just a bad mentality. He's got to learn to just say fvck it and play some basketball.

It's an interesting thought. The thing is, insisting he doesn't want the blame as the reason why he doesn't take the last shot doesn't really make sense to me considering that the media seems to have a field day with situations like that, maybe even more so than him taking the shot and missing.

I agree in the sense that he does need to say f*ck it more often and just play his game. He's playing at an extremely high level this season and there's no reason he shouldn't demand the ball more. Whether that's Spoelstra not running plays for him, or his decision to try to get others involved, I'm not sure; but it's not a good thing and it certainly needs to change.

Just looking at the play tonight where he took the three; he got it out of rhythm if I'm not mistaken, and had to make a play on the perimeter with tough defense on him. Compare that to lets say Boston or Chicago last year; he had the ball at the top of the perimeter (have the shot over Deng in my head), and just did his thing.

Indecisiveness seems to be the issue here. And when LeBron doesn't have the ball in his hands either creating the play for someone else, or deciding to set up his own shot, he's out of his element.

[Alamo]

They were dominating those series. Of course Lebron can give you clutch shots and chest bumps with DWade when he's winning.. Game 2 of the finals.. Bulls Series.. especially at the end of the Celtic's series up 3-1. But what happens when his team loses momentum like.. at the end of game 2 in the finals.. game 5 in 2010 against the C's.. this game tonight with the huge comeback. His balls just shrink when someone suckerpunches him.

Exactly, he relies on his teammates way too much. He's the best player in the league, he needs to grow some balls and learn to put the team on his back.

[JerrySteakhouse]

They were dominating those series. Of course Lebron can give you clutch shots and chest bumps with DWade when he's winning.. Game 2 of the finals.. Bulls Series.. especially at the end of the Celtic's series up 3-1. But what happens when his team loses momentum like.. at the end of game 2 in the finals.. game 5 in 2010 against the C's.. this game tonight with the huge comeback. His balls just shrink when someone suckerpunches him.
He was the reason why we won... :confusedshrug:

The shit we went through today happens. Basketball is a game of runs and the Warriors came out strong, no one looks at the goods things that Lebron does but magnify everything he does wrong... Dude gets way too much hate

[Simple Jack]

As for LeBron's struggles generally in those situations, it's part mental and part the law of averages. He was very clutch in those situations with the Cavs. He hasn't been able to do it successfully with the Heat, but he'll get his chances, and there will be times that he'll succeed.

The law of averages isn't real. Seriously. Flipping a quarter twice and getting heads doesn't mean the next two should be tails. You have a 50/50 chance each time with the previous flip having no effect on the following one.

[Rocker09]

True.

I think it's just when pressure gets heavy he starts to give up a little. Like, this was Wade's first big game in a while.. and it's almost like Lebron was conceding to him in the end, not wanting to fvck it up for him or the team. But thats just a bad mentality. He's got to learn to just say fvck it and play some basketball.


Agree with your post. Repped!

Lebron needs to understand that sometimes, he's gonna miss big shots and f*ck up. The important thing is that he at least attempts to take them and not to defer to wade all the time.

[jrong]

Exactly, he relies on his teammates way too much. He's the best player in the league, he needs to grow some balls and learn to put the team on his back.

Even if he's the best player, that doesn't mean he's the ideal option for those situations. Hell, I'd take Melo over any player on the Heat for a last second shot even though as a player I think Melo is much closer to Bosh than to James or Wade.

[tpols]

He was the reason why we won... :confusedshrug:

The shit we went through today happens. Basketball is a game of runs and the Warriors came out strong, no one looks at the goods things that Lebron does but magnify everything he does wrong... Dude gets way too much hate
He does get way too much hate.. but when you're dropping 35/9/9 effortlessly every game and then you drop to the level of play he's shown in some of these 4Qs it just shows something's wrong in his head.. because in the normal flow of the game when he's just playing care free basketball, he plays much much better. Has to lose the fear.. go back to his midrange game of last year.

[EllisGW]

They were dominating those series. Of course Lebron can give you clutch shots and chest bumps with DWade when he's winning.. Game 2 of the finals.. Bulls Series.. especially at the end of the Celtic's series up 3-1. But what happens when his team loses momentum like.. at the end of game 2 in the finals.. game 5 in 2010 against the C's.. this game tonight with the huge comeback. His balls just shrink when someone suckerpunches him.

i hope you know they were down in the chicago series. there has plenty of time where lebron played clutch and plenty times where lebron has choked in the playoffs.

[artest 93]

In regards to the "being afraid of blame" thought; he gets it regardless. Maybe even more so when someone else on the team hits the big shot, or he passes it. It would make sense if the media acted like nothing happened if the Heat fail NOT because of LeBron missing the last shot but that's clearly not the case.

I agree, but with the way LeBron seems to be, he's feel comfortable with himself knowing that it wasn't him who missed the shot. The media would point at him, but he knows "he" didn't miss the shot.

If LeBron played selfishly and carelessly, it would be good for him. If his team is struggling in an important game, especially if it's the 4th quarter, every shot he takes is probably followed by thoughts of what the world will say. It's sad that he's allowing this to impact him.

27 years old with 4-5 more years of prime-time left, and maybe 4 more good years after. He needs to step it up now. Other players are only getting better.

[Indian guy]

He hasn't been able to do it successfully with the Heat, but he'll get his chances, and there will be times that he'll succeed.

The problem isn't just that he's failing in the clutch, the problem is that he's not even trying. This couldn't be further from a case of "law of averages".

[coin24]

You know what, im sick of reading about Lebron on here and people making excuses for him...

Its time for him to step up for a change. Its like as soon as the heat get a bit of a lead, he goes into idiotic facilitator mode. Pad those assists. How about use your fu*king talent and keep scoring, maybe try for 50 or something..
Be a leader, so when the time comes you arent scared to say fu*k it, this shot is mine...

As usual the heat play like retards when they have a lead, the other team catches up and Lebron goes into little bitch mode:oldlol:

[Jordan-esque]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi7ZxDtYkig&feature=youtu.be

Yikes!

[Indian guy]

The only way LeBron won't continue to shrink in the clutch is by admitting who he is - and he's a jump shooter. For those idiots who see all those layups and dunks in highlights, realize that 90% of those are a result of transition or cuts to the basket. He's almost never creating these shots for himself in the half-court. What he does do in the half-court is shoot jumpers, and he does it rather well, but despite all his improvements at it, he simply does not have the confidence to shoot jumpers in close games. But he has no other choice. It's either disappear completely and continue being a laughing stock, or do something he does rather well the first 3 qtrs.

[coin24]

He should be coming out attacking in the 4th qtr. Not sitting back like a bitch...

Smh at the posters who compare this clown to kobe:oldlol: Bryant would kill someone to take the last shot, Lebron would rather anyone but him take it:lol
Too scared of people teasing him if he misses it:facepalm ... Its actually really sad and a waste of talent..

[onhcetum]

Last time I checked, Kobe never put a team on his back and got them a ring either. 2000-2002 with the most dominant player in the history of the game and 2009-2010 with the best front court and size in the NBA don't count either.

At least Lebron took a crappy Cavs team to the title, plus two more seasons of 60+ wins... then he leaves the next year and the Cavs head right towards the lottery... that right there is the definition of MVP... most valuable player. Kobe is nothing more than an overly glorified Paul Pierce, AI, and Vince Carter.

[Eric Cartman]

Last time I checked, Kobe never put a team on his back and got them a ring either. 2000-2002 with the most dominant player in the history of the game and 2009-2010 with the best front court and size in the NBA don't count either.

At least Lebron took a crappy Cavs team to the title, plus two more seasons of 60+ wins... then he leaves the next year and the Cavs head right towards the lottery... that right there is the definition of MVP... most valuable player. Kobe is nothing more than an overly glorified Paul Pierce, AI, and Vince Carter.

You don't a thing about basketball. Educate yourself before you post garbage like this.

[Tenchi Ryu]

You don't a thing about basketball. Educate yourself before you post garbage like this.
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[coin24]

Last time I checked, Kobe never put a team on his back and got them a ring either. 2000-2002 with the most dominant player in the history of the game and 2009-2010 with the best front court and size in the NBA don't count either.

At least Lebron took a crappy Cavs team to the title, plus two more seasons of 60+ wins... then he leaves the next year and the Cavs head right towards the lottery... that right there is the definition of MVP... most valuable player. Kobe is nothing more than an overly glorified Paul Pierce, AI, and Vince Carter.

Cool story.... 5 rings > 0 last time i checked:lol

Anyways... Its more a comparison of the mentality. Lebron is too worried about peoples perceptions of him and is scared of failing. Which is why he does all the time.. He has the talent, but doesnt seem to want to dominate the game for some reason:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[RazorBaLade]

Last time I checked, Kobe never put a team on his back and got them a ring either. 2000-2002 with the most dominant player in the history of the game and 2009-2010 with the best front court and size in the NBA don't count either.

At least Lebron took a crappy Cavs team to the title, plus two more seasons of 60+ wins... then he leaves the next year and the Cavs head right towards the lottery... that right there is the definition of MVP... most valuable player. Kobe is nothing more than an overly glorified Paul Pierce, AI, and Vince Carter.

can we trade the better player of the best front court for dwill? I mean damn he is 50% the reason a team won 2 titles.. I bet you think gasol for dwill is a really fair trade.
Right?

[onhcetum]

You don't a thing about basketball. Educate yourself before you post garbage like this.

It's just the truth. We talk about Kobe in a different light than say Paul Pierce, AI, Vince Carter, Steve Francis, and Tracey McGrady because he has rings. Kobe just had the fortune of playing with Shaq and the best frontline in perhaps the history of NBA basketball since 1970.

I mean, what's the difference between Kobe and the rest of them? Sure, he's got longevity, but he's just another high volume shooter who scores a lot, but can't take his team to the next level.

Kobe was at his absolute prime/peak in terms of athletic ability and skill in 2004-2007, yet he couldn't carry the Lakers. Heck, he even missed the playoffs once.

[coin24]

It's just the truth. We talk about Kobe in a different light than say Paul Pierce, AI, Vince Carter, Steve Francis, and Tracey McGrady because he has rings. Kobe just had the fortune of playing with Shaq and the best frontline in perhaps the history of NBA basketball since 1970.

I mean, what's the difference between Kobe and the rest of them? Sure, he's got longevity, but he's just another high volume shooter who scores a lot, but can't take his team to the next level.

Kobe was at his absolute prime/peak in terms of athletic ability and skill in 2004-2007, yet he couldn't carry the Lakers. Heck, he even missed the playoffs once.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Just... stop....

[RazorBaLade]

It's just the truth. We talk about Kobe in a different light than say Paul Pierce, AI, Vince Carter, Steve Francis, and Tracey McGrady because he has rings. Kobe just had the fortune of playing with Shaq and the best frontline in perhaps the history of NBA basketball since 1970.

I mean, what's the difference between Kobe and the rest of them? Sure, he's got longevity, but he's just another high volume shooter who scores a lot, but can't take his team to the next level.

Kobe was at his absolute prime/peak in terms of athletic ability and skill in 2004-2007, yet he couldn't carry the Lakers. Heck, he even missed the playoffs once.

so when the lakers lose games because their starting 5 is kwame brown smush parker luke walton lamar odom its KOBES fault... but when the lakers win games against pierce garnett and allen you give NO credit to kobe..

that is so hypocritical and pathetic that i honestly dont think u believe what you say

[onhcetum]

You guys know how many changes Tim Duncan's team has gone through? Look at there championship teams from every year, they look nothing alike. Duncan elevates his team and carries them. He has never missed the playoffs his entire career and his never won less than 50 games in a season...

[RazorBaLade]

You guys know how many changes Tim Duncan's team has gone through? Look at there championship teams from every year, they look nothing alike. Duncan elevates his team and carries them. He has never missed the playoffs his entire career and his never won less than 50 games in a season...

ya parker and ginobli are scrubs equivalent to smush parker and kwame brown

stop trolling

[onhcetum]

so when the lakers lose games because their starting 5 is kwame brown smush parker luke walton lamar odom its KOBES fault... but when the lakers win games against pierce garnett and allen you give NO credit to kobe..

that is so hypocritical and pathetic that i honestly dont think u believe what you say

Funny how whenever people bring up that argument bring up his team that year, they conveniently leave out Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum.

What about Duncan's 2003 team beating LA? Who did Duncan have that year? What about Lebron's 2004 team? What about AI's 2001 team?

I can go all day on why Kobe is overrated and not even close to being a top 10 player.

[tpols]

You guys know how many changes Tim Duncan's team has gone through? Look at there championship teams from every year, they look nothing alike. Duncan elevates his team and carries them. He has never missed the playoffs his entire career and his never won less than 50 games in a season...
What? They've had the same core and coach for 8+ years and 3 rings.:oldlol: They won 60+ games last year with Duncan being a role player! If anything that proves how great a system he's played in his whole career and his greatness wasn't really necessary for the spurs to at least always be a solid playoff team.. because they had the coaches, players, and GMs to always fit together extremely effective teams.

[tpols]

..
18/10 Gasol, and 12/9 Odom is the best frontcourt in the NBA in 09[bynum didnt play in their championship run]? Oh wait Iforgot DJ Mbenga.:oldlol:

[RazorBaLade]

Funny how whenever people bring up that argument bring up his team that year, they conveniently leave out Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum.

What about Duncan's 2003 team beating LA? Who did Duncan have that year? What about Lebron's 2004 team? What about AI's 2001 team?

I can go all day on why Kobe is overrated and not even close to being a top 10 player.

i put lamar odom...That was it. It was kobe and lamar then no one else is still in the NBA besides kwame and walton, lol. caron butler was traded away after they missed the playoffs (which was an injury filled season, ie, chucky atkins starting at 1 + young caron butler + lamra missing 30 games, coach fired after 40 games)

But I apologize. Andrew bynum was there. I think. If you can count 4 pts in 8 min a game being there.

Parker and Ginobli. Eastern conference. Eastern Conference.

[tpols]

I can go all day on why Kobe is overrated and not even close to being a top 10 player.
And everyone will keep making you look stupid..

[RazorBaLade]

18/10 Gasol, and 12/9 Odom is the best frontcourt in the NBA in 09[bynum didnt play in their championship run]? Oh wait Iforgot DJ Mbenga.:oldlol:

I wish other GMs thought Gasol, Bynum and Odom are as good as kobe haters think....... Man, we would easily be able to trade odom for more than a bag of peanuts (and consequently NOT watch him put up 5 pts on 30%) and then trade Gasol for DWIL and Bynum for Howard... Those have to be fair trades in these guys eyes if they practically won 2 titles by themselves :confusedshrug:

[RedBlackAttack]

At least Lebron took a crappy Cavs team to the title, plus two more seasons of 60+ wins... then he leaves the next year and the Cavs head right towards the lottery... that right there is the definition of MVP... most valuable player.
It is interesting that, as awful as those teams were according to some of you fanboys, the Heat won less games last year than the Cavs had the previous two seasons.

[Indian guy]

It is interesting that, as awful as those teams were according to some of you fanboys, the Heat won less games last year than the Cavs had the previous two seasons.

Because 08-10 LeBron is a significantly better player than Heat-LeBron. Not because those Cleveland teams had something around him that Miami lacks.

[onhcetum]

Ginobili wasn't even an All-Star until 2005, plus he had a bad ankle and came off the bench. Parker wasn't even an All-Star until 2006 and he got benched in favor of Speedy Claxton in the playoffs.

It's beyond the point though to start arguing about how bad people's teammates are.

Kobe fans just act as if Kobe is the only star player who has to deal with bad teammates.

The NBA is the NBA, I don't care what conference it is. Conferences go through periodic swings and cycles of dominance. You can't really control it, but it's the NBA, everyone can play. And now, this year the East is better than the West.. so what.

[StateOfMind12]

It is interesting that, as awful as those teams were according to some of you fanboys, the Heat won less games last year than the Cavs had the previous two seasons.
I love how he ignored how much more different the Cavs were in 2011 than they were in 2010 outside of LeBron. It's not like the Cavs lost Lebron in 2011 and that was it....

[tpols]

I wish other GMs thought Gasol, Bynum and Odom are as good as kobe haters think....... Man, we would easily be able to trade odom for more than a bag of peanuts (and consequently NOT watch him put up 5 pts on 30%) and then trade Gasol for DWIL and Bynum for Howard... Those have to be fair trades in these guys eyes if they practically won 2 titles by themselves :confusedshrug:
LA's frontcourt is massively overrated because in two out of three of the Finals from 08-10.. Bynum didn't play. People want to act like current Bynum was on every championship team, when the fact is, he wasn't on any of them. Dude was seriously injured in every playoff run. Their frontcourt was good, but not as good as people make it out to be. Kobe averaged 30+/5+/5+ for those three runs.. that wasn't empty production, it's up there with other all time greats. Part of it comes from the fact that LA has had the worst set of perimeter players of any other playoff team they've gone up against in the past few years.

[RedBlackAttack]

Because 08-10 LeBron is a significantly better player than Heat-LeBron. Not because those Cleveland teams had something around him that Miami lacks.
It was also a team that functioned really well as a team and played to James' strengths. They were a fantastic regular season team.

Not so much in the playoffs, but that wasn't just because of his teammates.

[LakerGirl72]

i dunno but he didn't start shrinking when he came into the NBA, he started that in high school.

[tpols]

And now, this year the East is better than the West.. so what.
No it's not.. and the only reason it's close this year is because three players from three separate playoff teams all converged onto one.. and Lebron is on that team. The West was stronger than the East for this whole decade.. winning records against them year in and year out and much higher overall win totals.

[DRose1899]

Im not surprised but nobody gives Lee any credit for guarding him. Instead it's just Lebrons fault.
So David Lee can shutdown Lebron James now :facepalm

[RazorBaLade]

Ginobili wasn't even an All-Star until 2005, plus he had a bad ankle and came off the bench. Parker wasn't even an All-Star until 2006 and he got benched in favor of Speedy Claxton in the playoffs.

It's beyond the point though to start arguing about how bad people's teammates are.

Kobe fans just act as if Kobe is the only star player who has to deal with bad teammates.

The NBA is the NBA, I don't care what conference it is. Conferences go through periodic swings and cycles of dominance. You can't really control it, but it's the NBA, everyone can play. And now, this year the East is better than the West.. so what.

The fact of the matter is that in 03 duncan had multiple players capable of putting up 10-15 pts in the playoffs on a consistent basis, which kobe only had with lamar odom (1 player) and then during title runs only pau and lamar. Which doesn't take away from the rest of the team.. The lakers squad was good. But to say that kobe didn't contribute greatly is just... i dont even know if theres a word for your opinions. Retarded?

[RedBlackAttack]

I love how he ignored how much more different the Cavs were in 2011 than they were in 2010 outside of LeBron. It's not like the Cavs lost Lebron in 2011 and that was it....
Not to mention that the team was built to compliment James' game. He did the playmaking and his teammates took care of other duties. Take away the playmaker and the entire system breaks down. It was the most predictable thing in the world.

Even with some of those remaining role players left behind and a rookie playmaking point guard who can only play 25 minutes a night currently, this team is nowhere near the worst in the league.

[tpols]

Not to mention that the team was built to compliment James' game. He did the playmaking and his teammates took care of other duties. Take away the playmaker and the entire system breaks down. It was the most predictable thing in the world.

Even with some of those remaining role players left behind and a rookie playmaking point guard who can only play 25 minutes a night currently, this team is nowhere near the worst in the league.
It's funny how I saw a thread in the football forum asking if Peyton was solely responsible for the Colt's success in the decade because of how bad they played w/o him, and everyone agreed that the reason they feel so hard was because the team was completely built on his strengths, not because they were just bad. But here in the NBA forum, with a very similar situation, no one wants to admit it with Lebron.

[RedBlackAttack]

It's funny how I saw a thread in the football forum asking if Peyton was solely responsible for the Colt's success in the decade because of how bad they played w/o him, and everyone agreed that the reason they feel so hard was because the team was completely built on his strengths, not because they were just bad. But here in the NBA forum, with a very similar situation, no one wants to admit it with Lebron.
Cleveland is like the dog LeBron fanboys kick when their boy has a bad night. I used to try and defend the James' Cleveland years every time I saw one of them spouting off without really thinking about the situation, but I generally don't bother any more. If they don't get it by now, they never will.

And, yes.... The Manning analogy is a perfect one. It is literally the same exact situation.

[Simple Jack]

The Manning analogy is terrible for reasons solely related to Football.

Despite the difference in records, this Miami team has a much better chance to win a championship than any of the Cavaliers teams had. Partly for the reasons you stated, and partly because the team was seriously lacking championship level talent.

All that's needed to come to that conclusion is the comparison of the talent surrounding LeBron on his 60+ win teams (especially the 66 win team with the 39-2 home record) relative to the talent of other teams that have won at that rate, historically.

[CardiacKemba]

I've never seen so much hate towards one person. This is unbelievable. The way people talk on here, it's as if they have some personal issue with the guy.

[Lebron23]

I hope Wade, and the Heat give the ball to LeBron in the 4th quarter when they play the Clippers. It's time for LeBron to show that he's the same guy who led the NBA in 4th quarter scoring from 2008-2010.

[kidachi]

:oldlol: :facepalm - for LeBron bashers

LeBron is Big L, they prayin for his downfall

[okayabc123]

Lebron is about perception. The two 3's he took were out of desperation not because he wants to shoot it. Lebron needs to WANT the ball, even if he miss, so what. I rather see Lebron miss 10 straight shots in the 4th quarter instead of worrying about if it is going to hurt his FG%.

You can't tell me that Lebron is having the most efficient season ever by a NBA player, and he goes MIA in the crunch time. And honestly, the assist he racks, while great, but it speaks to the fact that he doesn't want to take that shot.

I think Lebron is by far the best player in the NBA. There isn't anything he can't do, but tonight's game is exactly like what happened against Dallas. He got torched by D. Wright in the 4th and OT just like the Jet did. And he disappeared down the stretch when he should have stole the ball from Wade and take it to the rack.

For all the people that says "it's just one stupid reg. season game". Yes, it is. But we glorify Lebron when he wins and goes 40/10/10 on a meaningless game, so we should be allow to criticize when he disappears too.

[Clutch]

So David Lee can shutdown Lebron James now :facepalm
Suddenly David Lee is a lockdown defender :roll: :roll: :roll:

[RedBlackAttack]

The Manning analogy is terrible for reasons solely related to Football.

Despite the difference in records, this Miami team has a much better chance to win a championship than any of the Cavaliers teams had. Partly for the reasons you stated, and partly because the team was seriously lacking championship level talent.

All that's needed to come to that conclusion is the comparison of the talent surrounding LeBron on his 60+ win teams (especially the 66 win team with the 39-2 home record) relative to the talent of other teams that have won at that rate, historically.
You never saw me post a single time that James doesn't have a better chance at a title in Miami. I mean, yeah... When you are the best player in the NBA and join the second best player in the league with both guys in their prime, generally one would think that there would be greater odds for a title. Throw in a multiple all-star just entering his prime for good measure.

Of course James has a better shot at a title in Miami, especially given his penchant for checking out in critical situations recently... It helps to have a Wade and Bosh there, which Cleveland obviously did not have (see the 2010 series against Boston for an example).

But, I wasn't responding to someone who said that James has a better chance at a title in Miami than Cleveland. I responded because the person said...


At least Lebron took a crappy Cavs team to the title, plus two more seasons of 60+ wins... then he leaves the next year and the Cavs head right towards the lottery... that right there is the definition of MVP... most valuable player.

That is just the definition of short-sighted homerism.

And, the reason the Manning analogy works is because their team really was set-up to compliment his game. Their offense was pretty obviously formulated around a guy who does most of his best work at the line of scrimmage, looking over the defensive formation and checking into plays that will counter it. That is really what made Manning great and that offense was built with very versatile parts that could react to change on the fly. There is no replacement for that.

Their defense was built to play with the lead, because an offense run by Manning is almost always going to put an opponent in a hole. Therefore, they favored a smaller, faster unit that is great at getting to the passer. Why? Because when teams fall behind, they have to throw to catch up and they pretty much have to abandon the run game. Without Manning and without those early leads, teams can dig their heels in and out-muscle them.

So, the Colts aren't picking No. 1 in the upcoming draft because the team 'stunk.' They are picking No. 1 because they were built to work with a very unique quarterback who was injured before the season started and is impossible to replace.



The Cavs, on the other side of the coin, spent their years crafting a team to play to James' strengths. He is (or was) at his best when he has the ball in his hands either at the top of the key or on the wing and he can either attack the rim to get a shot for himself, kick to an open man or shoot the ball from the perimeter.

To compliment that kind of player, the Cavs loaded the team with spot-up shooters who could knock down shots on his drive and kicks (Williams, Parker, Gibson, Big Z, Jamison) and hustle guys that can follow-up a missed drive or pull-up (Varejao, Powe, old Shaq).

And, it worked extremely well in the regular season. They were consistently one of the best shooting teams, best rebounding teams and best defensive teams in the league during his last few years there. Playoffs were a different story. But, as I said, it wasn't just his teammates who came up short. That was a team effort, as well.


Does his team have a better shot at a title now? I would sure as hell hope so... It isn't every day when the two best players in the league decide to join forces in the primes of their respective careers (in fact, it has never happened before like that). I would never argue against that.

I will argue against the idea that those Cavs teams were 'garbage' and it was just a case of James dragging them to 60+ win seasons. They weren't and he didn't. He was, however, an incredible player that had a supporting cast that, while not overly talented, complimented his game very well. And, I will also laugh at the idea of comparing how a team performed with LeBron and without him as an end-all argument for how well that team was built around him. That argument just makes no sense.

[LakersReign]

Lebron is about perception. The two 3's he took were out of desperation not because he wants to shoot it. Lebron needs to WANT the ball, even if he miss, so what. I rather see Lebron miss 10 straight shots in the 4th quarter instead of worrying about if it is going to hurt his FG%.

You can't tell me that Lebron is having the most efficient season ever by a NBA player, and he goes MIA in the crunch time. And honestly, the assist he racks, while great, but it speaks to the fact that he doesn't want to take that shot.

I think Lebron is by far the best player in the NBA. There isn't anything he can't do, but tonight's game is exactly like what happened against Dallas. He got torched by D. Wright in the 4th and OT just like the Jet did. And he disappeared down the stretch when he should have stole the ball from Wade and take it to the rack.

For all the people that says "it's just one stupid reg. season game". Yes, it is. But we glorify Lebron when he wins and goes 40/10/10 on a meaningless game, so we should be allow to criticize when he disappears too.




You can't tell me that Lebron is having the most efficient season ever by a NBA player, and he goes MIA in the crunch time. And honestly, the assist he racks, while great, but it speaks to the fact that he doesn't want to take that shot.


That's why I keep saying, regardless of who says what, Lebron IS NOT clutch.



I think Lebron is by far the best player in the NBA. There isn't anything he can't do, but tonight's game is exactly like what happened against Dallas. He got torched by D. Wright in the 4th and OT just like the Jet did. And he disappeared down the stretch when he should have stole the ball from Wade and take it to the rack.


He doesn't have a post game to speak of, so I'll attribute that to his media hype machine. He doesn't play the post consistently, and that's what you have to do to develop a post game. The REAL problem with the Heat was from it's inception. They themselves said it....they're all friends. The Heat will go nowhere until SOMEBODY becomes the Heat's a**hole....the guy to get in the other's face and tell them when they're screwing up. Jordan did it to Pippen, Kobe does it to numerous players on the Lakers. Wade USED TO be like that, but has changed since the Heat brought in Lebron. He did that to Shaq back in '06, in the Finals vs the Mavs, but like I said, he's no longer that DWade. Magic and Isiah Thomas used to be great friends, but they weren't on the court. Right now, it's like everybody f****** up and everybody is too scared to tell the other, cuz they're all afraid of ruining the friendship. So don't look for Lebron to even think about doing something like that.



For all the people that says "it's just one stupid reg. season game". Yes, it is. But we glorify Lebron when he wins and goes 40/10/10 on a meaningless game, so we should be allow to criticize when he disappears too.


That's exactly why REAL NBA fans don't take Lebandwagners seriously. They can post at length, and go on and on and on and on and on, about how Kobe is this and that, and can never give the guy credit for anything he does. But then turn right around and try to ignore Lebron's OBVIOUS flaws. If you listen to them, he supposedly has none and they only reason why he doesn't have a title yet is supposedly cuz he's so great and everyone else around him supposedly sucks, which isn't his fault.

[Nash]

I guess its because he has 2 other big stars to share it with. With Cleveland the ball was in his hand 9 times out of 10. This time its not really the same. And then again, I bet Spoelstra is telling him what to do and maybe he wants him to playmake more than score in the OT?

[Clutch]

I guess its because he has 2 other big stars to share it with. With Cleveland the ball was in his hand 9 times out of 10. This time its not really the same. And then again, I bet Spoelstra is telling him what to do and maybe he wants him to playmake more than score in the OT?
Yeah,let's blame Spoelstra and other players on the team for LeBron's choking.

[coin24]

He needs to start dominating in the 4th. Plain and simple. Take some fu*king shots please...

This defer mode bullshit to pad his stats is pathetic, its like as soon as he gets a few points he MUST get his assists up, wow u got 10 assists, cool story. Your team lost and you looked like a bitch in the 4th as usual...
If he went hard out from the second he got on the court in the 4th, it wont come down to a last shot situation...

He should be wanting the ball in his hands, wanting to take the shots. He has the talent to be putting up damn near 40ppg per night. He gets close to 30ppg now only playing 3 qtrs for fu*ks sake..

Its not about hating on him personally, its about the way he is playing the game. He has the talent and skills to be one of the greatest, but chooses to play second fiddle..

[Nash]

Yeah,let's blame Spoelstra and other players on the team for LeBron's choking.
Hold on, now I don't know if this is true or not, but IF Spoelstra asks from Lebron to be the playmaker during crunch time and find his teammates for some easy buckets to score, you think he shouldn't do it? Now I don't know if its true, but Lebron is the best playmaker in his team and Wade and Bosh are great and reliable finishers. Maybe Spoelstra wants to use his superstars in both scoring and creating and Lebron is the most comfortable playmaker out of him, Wade and Bosh?

I don't know what it is but Lebron becomes way more of a point guard during crunch time. Its pretty clear that his game turns into a point guards game.

[strifed169]

He scared and isnt confident.

The thing that kills is not the fact that he doesnt make the final shot.
What kills me is the fact that he doesnt even try in the 4th quarter.
I dont care if you miss a shot or a layup. Atleast show some intensity.
Dont stand around and do nothing.

This is a recurring issue with him, not sure what it is, could be he worries about his stats so much that he will only attack when he is positive he will score the bucket :confusedshrug: but he DOES look afraid when crunch time hits or hes differing to Wade too much, either that or he is completely traumatized by zone defense.

[DMV2]

I guess its because he has 2 other big stars to share it with. With Cleveland the ball was in his hand 9 times out of 10. This time its not really the same. And then again, I bet Spoelstra is telling him what to do and maybe he wants him to playmake more than score in the OT?
What was his excuse for quitting against Boston in 2010 then?

Also, Wade got hurt in the 3rd Quarter of Game 5 of the 2011 Finals. Why didn't he come through in the 4th during Game 5 and 6?

ISH is the only place where excuses are still made for LeBron's anti-clutch mentality.

[pauk]

lmfao........... just watched the game and saw lebron miss 2 last second shotclock bailout 3s and they losed afterall... Wade didnt do so well either with the gamewinners.... expected an overreaction thread of this magnitude ! :oldlol:

[Aussie Dunker]

Dude are you serious? The fcking lawyers are out today.UNFCKING BELIEVEABLE!
He had NO FG Atempt in the 4th QUARTER!!!
He will always be the little boy that's scared of the ball in the 4th quarter!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Px-jPm_TU

As a Pistons fan, it is hard to forget about this :bowdown:

[DMV2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Px-jPm_TU

As a Pistons fan, it is hard to forget about this :bowdown:
Pre-2010 LeBron played like he didn't give a f--k anything...what happened to that guy? Even that Game 7 in 2008 series against Boston he played like a man possessed.

Was it the 2009 Orlando series that killed his confidence? He played great against them but he looked frustrated in that series. Then a year later against Boston, well, we know what happened. And last season versus Dallas.

He needs to go back to the 2003-2009 LeBron again, mentality wise.

[DRose1899]

Suddenly David Lee is a lockdown defender :roll: :roll: :roll:
I wonder if Heat lose to wolves back then (he playing in same fashion at 4th)
That guy will said " Well Michael Beasley/Kevin Love guard him" :facepalm

[madmax]

funny how it's Lebron's fault now that they lost AGAIN, but of course Wade chucking and trying to be a "hero" in the clutch yesterday is OK by everyone:rolleyes: Are we gonna apply the same standards for everyone or Lebron is to blame for his teammates failures too?

[heyhey]

It's cause his dad quit on him before he was even born and he never got that fatherly attention he needed as a kid. That's why he seeks out older male as guiding figure to rely on, from World wide west to Dwayne wade. When he gets that last shot that self doubt from growing up fatherless creeps back in.

[coin24]

funny how it's Lebron's fault now that they lost AGAIN, but of course Wade chucking and trying to be a "hero" in the clutch yesterday is OK by everyone:rolleyes: Are we gonna apply the same standards for everyone or Lebron is to blame for his teammates failures too?


The point is, at least Wade wanted to be the man and take those shots..
People are pissed at Lebron because he goes MIA all 4th qtr and doesnt shoot the ball when they really need him to be taking over and sealing the game..

Not waiting while he pads his assist total and the game is coming down to the last posession. ( Where the heat repeatedly fu*k it up):facepalm

[madmax]

The point is, at least Wade wanted to be the man and take those shots..
People are pissed at Lebron because he goes MIA all 4th qtr and doesnt shoot the ball when they really need him to be taking over and sealing the game..

Not waiting while he pads his assist total and the game is coming down to the last posession. ( Where the heat repeatedly fu*k it up):facepalm

you know that if Wade doesn't screw up on one of those late 4th quarter possessions Heat win the game? So now we are blaming Lebron because his buddy wanted the all the glory and to prove that he is still "the man" of that team? And the last three pointer was as retarded as they come - how can you hate on a guy when he misses a looong corner bailout 3 over a tall defender?:rolleyes: It's like hating on Steve Nash that he doesn't posterize people...

[nightprowler10]

Thank god we still have Kobe Bryant, new era stars are weak.
Oh come on. Even Kobe praises Rose's killer instinct.

[coin24]

you know that if Wade doesn't screw up on one of those late 4th quarter possessions Heat win the game? So now we are blaming Lebron because his buddy wanted the all the glory and to prove that he is still "the man" of that team? And the last three pointer was as retarded as they come - how can you hate on a guy when he misses a looong corner bailout 3 over a tall defender?:rolleyes: It's like hating on Steve Nash that he doesn't posterize people...

Im not hating on Lebron for missing a tough shot. Its the fact that he doesnt shoot for the whole 4th qtr, and would have been happier for someone else to take the last shot...

If he shows up in the 4th, they win the game comfortably... It happens over and over again, it cost them a championship last season for fu*ks sake:facepalm

[Bigsmoke]

He needs to start dominating in the 4th. Plain and simple. Take some fu*king shots please...

This defer mode bullshit to pad his stats is pathetic, its like as soon as he gets a few points he MUST get his assists up, wow u got 10 assists, cool story. Your team lost and you looked like a bitch in the 4th as usual...
If he went hard out from the second he got on the court in the 4th, it wont come down to a last shot situation...

He should be wanting the ball in his hands, wanting to take the shots. He has the talent to be putting up damn near 40ppg per night. He gets close to 30ppg now only playing 3 qtrs for fu*ks sake..

Its not about hating on him personally, its about the way he is playing the game. He has the talent and skills to be one of the greatest, but chooses to play second fiddle..

Thats why Heat fans been praying for LeBron to let Wade take over 4th quarters since after the Finals. :rolleyes:

stop bitching and just take your L

[heyhey]

Oh come on. Even Kobe praises Rose's killer instinct.

he needs to couple that instinct with a more consistent jumpshot tho.

[coin24]

he needs to couple that instinct with a more consistent jumpshot tho.


His 3 is looking a lot better this season though.. No more 1-8 bullshit..

[100grandman]

He joined the heat so he could let wade take over in the 4th, he knows he can't handle pressure, this has become more obvious with every passing game.

Lebron James, the cleveland ditching and the miami super trio are a disrespect to the game of bball.

Thank god we still have Kobe Bryant, new era stars are weak.


Man **** Kobe

[nathanjizzle]

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/9343/leavelebronalone.jpg

[Bigsmoke]

Yeah,let's blame Spoelstra and other players on the team for LeBron's choking.

the other players choke with Lebron :confusedshrug:

[madmax]

Im not hating on Lebron for missing a tough shot. Its the fact that he doesnt shoot for the whole 4th qtr, and would have been happier for someone else to take the last shot...

If he shows up in the 4th, they win the game comfortably... It happens over and over again, it cost them a championship last season for fu*ks sake:facepalm

well, it's kinda hard for him to "show up" in the 4th, since Wade is busy chucking and missing during that time period mostly. So blame the coaching or the ego of his best friend then...Lebron should be left at the top of key during clutch moments - good things usually happen when he drives to the hole

[Oositdwn]

Lebron fans already afraid they are seeing a preview of what Lebron will do in playoffs. This was a regular season game against GSW imagine how much he will fold against a legit team. At least now all that talk about lebron coming into this season with a new mentality has gone out the window now. No need to regurgitate that crap anymore.

[Cangri]

Man this guy is so unpredictable in the 4rth quarter. Last year he played great in the clutch against Boston and Chicago in the playoffs, then in the finals he choked. :hammerhead:

[HurricaneKid]

It pisses me off that after a full season plus games LeBron and Wade still haven't found a way to coexist on the floor together. They take turns rather than both going at it. Spo is not imaginative enough for my tastes.

[All Net]

Lebron needs to improve in the 4th quarter of games thats for sure but its amazing how he's gone from most dominate season in years to suddenly this over a loss to GS...people point the finger to him here but he is not the main reason why they lost this game.

bad defending and bad decision making by all the Heat players cost them.

[DRose1899]

Lebron needs to improve in the 4th quarter of games thats for sure but its amazing how he's gone from most dominate season in years to suddenly this over a loss to GS...people point the finger to him here but he is not the main reason why they lost this game.

bad defending and bad decision making by all the Heat players cost them.
Hey, passing to Cole and Haslem is good decision! they're open! :hammerhead:

[All Net]

Hey, passing to Cole and Haslem is good decision! they're open! :hammerhead:

haslem was a bonehead last night, part of the reason why they lost the lead was on him near the end...missing easy layups, turnovers, getting a T.

[HurricaneKid]

Wade was 1/7 with 2 or 3 TOs in the 4th. That is what lost them the game.

But I don't understand how LeBron can go the whole 4th qtr without a FGA.

[jlip]

Wade was 1/7 with 2 or 3 TOs in the 4th. That is what lost them the game.

But I don't understand how LeBron can go the whole 4th qtr without a FGA.


Bosh said on First Take that the Heat have made Wade their "closer" (www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1fOB9VDPnk&feature=related#t=3m24s). (Click on the link.) Lebron stupidly accepts that, and frankly doesn't know how to play when the offense isn't run through him. I honestly feels that he needs a little of the Jordan and Kobe mentality which says..."To hell with the system! I'm hot tonight and nobody can hold me." But he won't do that.
..

[Lebron23]

Lebron fans already afraid they are seeing a preview of what Lebron will do in playoffs. This was a regular season game against GSW imagine how much he will fold against a legit team. At least now all that talk about lebron coming into this season with a
ew mentality has gone out the window now. No need to regurgitate that crap anymore.

LeBron was clutch last year in the playoffs againts the Celtics and Bulls. **** with your overreaction post. The Season is not yet over. Lebron might actually show his clutch skills againts the 4-3 Clippers.

[madmax]

Wade was 1/7 with 2 or 3 TOs in the 4th. That is what lost them the game.

But I don't understand how LeBron can go the whole 4th qtr without a FGA.

this...it's amazing how other players can get away with murder, yet Lebron is still responsible for their failures:rolleyes: This board never ceases to amaze me...

[Oositdwn]

Same GS Team that Beat your F*cking Lakers in the regular season. LeBron was clutch last year in the playoffs againts the Celtics and Bulls. **** with your overreaction post. The Season is not yet over. Lebron might actually show his clutch skills againts the 4-3 Clippers.
My lakers?? I'm not a fan of the lakers :oldlol:. Funny how you mention the Boston and Chicago series, remind me what happened after?? Exactly. His inconsistency in 4th qtr games is actually quite shocking. And No I'm not talking about his numbers because I know you're preparing the Wade excuse. I'm talking about his passive mentality that he always gets during close games. In his mind he wants to pass first in the 4th qtr, yet he wants to stay on the floor in 2nd and 3rd qtr blowouts to pad his stats. Then you have lebron stans as yourself saying "It's because he plays alongside Bosh and Wade so he doesn't have to close out games". :violin:

[Lebron23]

My lakers?? I'm not a fan of the lakers :oldlol:. Funny how you mention the Boston and Chicago series, remind me what happened after?? Exactly. His inconsistency in 4th qtr games is actually quite shocking. And No I'm not talking about his numbers because I know you're preparing the Wade excuse. I'm talking about his passive mentality that he always gets during close games. In his mind he wants to pass first in the 4th qtr, yet he wants to stay on the floor in 2nd and 3rd qtr blowouts to pad his stats. Then you have lebron stans as yourself saying "It's because he plays alongside Bosh and Wade so he doesn't have to close out games". :violin:

That's a horrible posts. Watch Lebron attacks the basket in the 4th quarter againts the Clippers in tonight game. I hope Spo let him close out games since Wade is still suffering from Plantar facilitis that's going to affect his speed and mobility.

[KenneBell]

Same GS Team that Beat your F*cking Lakers in the regular season. LeBron was clutch last year in the playoffs againts the Celtics and Bulls. **** with your overreaction post. The Season is not yet over. Lebron might actually show his clutch skills againts the 4-3 Clippers.
Typical LeBron23. Don't you get tired of this? Calm the f*ck down.

[Pushxx]

It all started with Elbowgate. LeBron left his balls in Game 5 of the Celtics in 2010.

He has never found them since.

[jlip]

It all started with Elbowgate. LeBron left his balls in Game 5 of the Celtics in 2010.

He has never found them since.

So we just going to ignore what he did to the Celtics in the 2011 playoffs? It actually started in Game 2 of the Finals.

[Oositdwn]

You are a dumb ass. You are a dumber than a F*cking Rock. Watch Lebron attacks the basket in the 4th quarter againts the Clippers in tonight game. I hope Spo let him close out games since Wade is still suffering from Plantar facilitis that's going to affect his speed and mobility.
Watch what?? I don't need to watch anything the proof was right there yesterday. It was a close game situation, Heat where struggling on both ends of the floor and Wade was cold. That was the perfect time for Lebron to step up, but did he?? No he didn't.

[jrong]

The problem isn't just that he's failing in the clutch, the problem is that he's not even trying. This couldn't be further from a case of "law of averages".

Well, he was trying last year. He began the season as the Heat's designated closer (in close games). It was only after he missed a string of potential gamewinners that the responsibility shifted to Wade. But, even though the FGA in the last ten seconds of one possession games last year seems reasonably distributed (James 8, Wade 5), three of Wade's shots in those situations came off of offensive rebound follows. The fact is that Spo rode LBJ in those situations until his streak of coming up short.

The reason I described it as a law of averages thing is because if you follow the career narrative of James's level of clutchness, first it was he's not clutch at all. Then he was the most clutch player in the league. Now, he's anti-clutch again. It will come back around, where he'll make a few in a row, and all of the sudden he'll be "clutch" again.

As far as it being in his head, I can only guess that he's now aware on a level like never before the expectations he faces from having joined the Heat. And in certain instances, the pressure has gotten to him at the worst possible time.

[EllisGW]

Watch what?? I don't need to watch anything the proof was right there yesterday. It was a close game situation, Heat where struggling on both ends of the floor and Wade was cold. That was the perfect time for Lebron to step up, but did he?? No he didn't.

its never was a close game until last 2 min and than coach called a play for wade. I bet you did not even see game until nbtv let it go national lol the last 2 minutes lol. then morons wanna talk about the game.

[macpierce]

typical lebron :roll:

[Extempo]

I saw Lebron brick two shots that could have tied/won the game last night. His FG% in clutch situations MUST have taken a hit. His team is probably better in close games without him. I bet if he and Wade didn't play yesterday, Bosh would have closed it out like he did in Atlanta. Bosh was making tough shots in the 4th yesterday, why did they not go to him at the end? I'd easily trust him or Chalmers to make a clutch 3-pointer, instead of Lebron. But of course Lebron wanted to play hero...failed miserably as he bricked both shots.

[EllisGW]

I saw Lebron brick two shots that could have tied/won the game last night. His FG% in clutch situations MUST have taken a hit. His team is probably better in close games without him. I bet if he and Wade didn't play yesterday, Bosh would have closed it out like he did in Atlanta. Bosh was making tough shots in the 4th yesterday, why did they not go to him at the end? I'd easily trust him or Chalmers to make a clutch 3-pointer, instead of Lebron. But of course Lebron wanted to play hero...failed miserably as he bricked both shots.


why are you lying, he missed one three pointer with 7 seconds when they passed out to him. lol he never took two shots to tie the game at the last second. lol

people on these forums

[Phong]

LeBron23 on full damage-control mode. :oldlol:

[HurricaneKid]

I saw Lebron brick two shots that could have tied/won the game last night. His FG% in clutch situations MUST have taken a hit. His team is probably better in close games without him. I bet if he and Wade didn't play yesterday, Bosh would have closed it out like he did in Atlanta. Bosh was making tough shots in the 4th yesterday, why did they not go to him at the end? I'd easily trust him or Chalmers to make a clutch 3-pointer, instead of Lebron. But of course Lebron wanted to play hero...failed miserably as he bricked both shots.

See above for the reason we need negative reps.

LeBron took two threes in the game. One was with 7 seconds left in OT. Wade had taken the shot clock down to 2 and passed it off to LeBron who was forced to shoot a bailout 3 from 27 feet. Thats not on LeBron. That was on Wade. The other 3 was with 2 seconds left down 5.

So you are pounding on him because he didn't drain an impossibly long 3 as the shot clock expired. Only you didn't even know that. You piled on and didn't have ANY facts. Which makes you ridiculous.

[jrong]

See above for the reason we need negative reps.

LeBron took two threes in the game. One was with 7 seconds left in OT. Wade had taken the shot clock down to 2 and passed it off to LeBron who was forced to shoot a bailout 3 from 27 feet. Thats not on LeBron. That was on Wade.

No, it wasn't. The call was for LeBron. You can fault the execution, but that shot was LeBron's responsibility. Wade had missed with 18 seconds left in regulation and the bank shot on the play immediately prior. There was no way in the world that shot was going to Wade. (Bosh, however, might have been the best choice of all).

But, Jackson made a brilliant move by sticking 6'10" David Lee on James, so he never got anything resembling a good look.

[HurricaneKid]

You are telling me that the designed play was for Wade to ISO and pass to LeBron from 27 feet with 1 second on the shot clock? Is that honestly what you believe?

[EllisGW]

You are telling me that the designed play was for Wade to ISO and pass to LeBron from 27 feet with 1 second on the shot clock? Is that honestly what you believe?


i know man the people on here

[Sarcastic]

They should have let Cole bail them out in the 4th.

[pegasus]

Lebron was invisible again the 4th quarter. If you tell me that his body language is the same in the 4th quarters as it is in the first three quarters, you're extremely biased.

Then look at Kobe and Rose. They WANT to be put in those situations, they want to take those shots, without a sign of fear. That's the winning attitude these superstars should have.

Lebron is too content with the numbers he gets in the first 36 minutes to worry about the rest. Then his followers always have an excuse to say "But he had a near triple-double":facepalm

Having said that, he did try to reassert himself in the OT. He made a layup and dished a couple of assists, but it was a bit too little too late. And also, him and Wade not taking any 3's this season will always come back to bite them in the ass. They had to take a 3 in the end, and Lebron's shooting form didn't even look right. There will be several moments like that in the playoffs.

[jrong]

You are telling me that the designed play was for Wade to ISO and pass to LeBron from 27 feet with 1 second on the shot clock? Is that honestly what you believe?

Now it's one second. Before it was two. In reality, it was closer to five seconds.

Regardless, I faulted the execution on the play, and if that was at least in part on Wade, then so be it. But, I know if Wade was supposed to take the shot, he would take it. You never have to ask Wade twice to play hero ball (in fact, you don't have to ask him), I will admit. But, that also means he doesn't shy away from those moments.

However, Wade and James have followed a set of rules since they started playing together. For example, if either one of them is hot, they get free reign over the offense. And another one is that, at the end of a contested game, if you miss one or two shots in a row (one or two depending on how welll you were playing previously), then the next time, the other guy gets the ball.

Wade missed a potential gamewinner in regulation and, in OT, a bank shot that would have cut it to one. So the next shot was going to James. Period.


And also, him and Wade not taking any 3's this season will always come back to bite them in the ass.

I agree with this. One of the things that made them both so dangerous were their step-in and step-back threes. Yes, they both shot too many last year. But, they went way too far to the opposite extreme.

[lbj23clutch]

Where was LeBron's post game last night? :facepalm


It pisses me off how LeBron just stands there waiting for something to happen on offense in clutch situations, when he should be posting, cutting to the basket or attacking the basket off the dribble. It amazes me how he can look so unstoppable yet when the game starts to get tight he reverts to p*ssy mode. This guy just doesn't have a winning mentality, which is why we'll never see him win a ring as a clear first option. Every season I hope LeBron would gain the "clutch gene" but time and time again he proves to be nothing but a front running megastar that's afraid to take shots in the 4th quarter. :oldlol: I question his mental toughness.


LeBron is soft, plain and simple.

[HurricaneKid]

Now it's one second. Before it was two. In reality, it was closer to five seconds.

Regardless, I faulted the execution on the play, and if that was at least in part on Wade, then so be it. But, I know if Wade was supposed to take the shot, he would take it. You never have to ask Wade twice to play hero ball (in fact, you don't have to ask him), I will admit. But, that also means he doesn't shy away from those moments.

However, Wade and James have followed a set of rules since they started playing together. For example, if either one of them is hot, they get free reign over the offense. And another one is that, at the end of a contested game, if you miss one or two shots in a row (one or two depending on how welll you were playing previously), then the next time, the other guy gets the ball.

Wade missed a potential gamewinner in regulation and, in OT, a bank shot that would have cut it to one. So the next shot was going to James. Period.


Your theoretical "who's turn is it" was trumped by what ACTUALLY HAPPENED. Wade had an ISO and passed off at the very end of the shot clock. WADE had the ball. He was attempting to score. That isn't a "play for LeBron".

[EllisGW]

lebron clutch play has been in regular season and playoffs just not the nba finals.

[DMAVS41]

Something clearly is lost with Lebron's game in clutch situations since the start of last year. He went from thriving in game winning situations and clutch moments to looking dreadful....

He did come through hugely against the Celtics and Bulls...and that matters, but we can't continue to ignore how passive he's been.

Afraid to fail if you ask me. Really quite pathetic. And this is exactly why nothing he does in the regular season or even playoffs means shit until he does it all the way through a playoff run and leads a team to the title.

Lebron didn't deserve a lot of the criticism he got while he was in Cleveland because it was an impossible situation and his overall play was truly legendary.

Now its different. No passes. No excuses. He's playing like a scrub when it matters most and it simply won't get it done. Pathetic.

[DMAVS41]

Lebron was invisible again the 4th quarter. If you tell me that his body language is the same in the 4th quarters as it is in the first three quarters, you're extremely biased.

Then look at Kobe and Rose. They WANT to be put in those situations, they want to take those shots, without a sign of fear. That's the winning attitude these superstars should have.

Lebron is too content with the numbers he gets in the first 36 minutes to worry about the rest. Then his followers always have an excuse to say "But he had a near triple-double":facepalm

Having said that, he did try to reassert himself in the OT. He made a layup and dished a couple of assists, but it was a bit too little too late. And also, him and Wade not taking any 3's this season will always come back to bite them in the ass. They had to take a 3 in the end, and Lebron's shooting form didn't even look right. There will be several moments like that in the playoffs.

Please add Dirk and Melo to any examples of what players should act like in game winning situations considering Melo is by far the best and Dirk is better than both Rose and Kobe as well.

But yes, they have different attitudes. I don't agree with the way Kobe plays in those situations, but you can never fault him for shrinking.

[Carbine]

You never saw me post a single time that James doesn't have a better chance at a title in Miami. I mean, yeah... When you are the best player in the NBA and join the second best player in the league with both guys in their prime, generally one would think that there would be greater odds for a title. Throw in a multiple all-star just entering his prime for good measure.

Of course James has a better shot at a title in Miami, especially given his penchant for checking out in critical situations recently... It helps to have a Wade and Bosh there, which Cleveland obviously did not have (see the 2010 series against Boston for an example).

But, I wasn't responding to someone who said that James has a better chance at a title in Miami than Cleveland. I responded because the person said...



That is just the definition of short-sighted homerism.

And, the reason the Manning analogy works is because their team really was set-up to compliment his game. Their offense was pretty obviously formulated around a guy who does most of his best work at the line of scrimmage, looking over the defensive formation and checking into plays that will counter it. That is really what made Manning great and that offense was built with very versatile parts that could react to change on the fly. There is no replacement for that.

Their defense was built to play with the lead, because an offense run by Manning is almost always going to put an opponent in a hole. Therefore, they favored a smaller, faster unit that is great at getting to the passer. Why? Because when teams fall behind, they have to throw to catch up and they pretty much have to abandon the run game. Without Manning and without those early leads, teams can dig their heels in and out-muscle them.

So, the Colts aren't picking No. 1 in the upcoming draft because the team 'stunk.' They are picking No. 1 because they were built to work with a very unique quarterback who was injured before the season started and is impossible to replace.



The Cavs, on the other side of the coin, spent their years crafting a team to play to James' strengths. He is (or was) at his best when he has the ball in his hands either at the top of the key or on the wing and he can either attack the rim to get a shot for himself, kick to an open man or shoot the ball from the perimeter.

To compliment that kind of player, the Cavs loaded the team with spot-up shooters who could knock down shots on his drive and kicks (Williams, Parker, Gibson, Big Z, Jamison) and hustle guys that can follow-up a missed drive or pull-up (Varejao, Powe, old Shaq).

And, it worked extremely well in the regular season. They were consistently one of the best shooting teams, best rebounding teams and best defensive teams in the league during his last few years there. Playoffs were a different story. But, as I said, it wasn't just his teammates who came up short. That was a team effort, as well.


Does his team have a better shot at a title now? I would sure as hell hope so... It isn't every day when the two best players in the league decide to join forces in the primes of their respective careers (in fact, it has never happened before like that). I would never argue against that.

I will argue against the idea that those Cavs teams were 'garbage' and it was just a case of James dragging them to 60+ win seasons. They weren't and he didn't. He was, however, an incredible player that had a supporting cast that, while not overly talented, complimented his game very well. And, I will also laugh at the idea of comparing how a team performed with LeBron and without him as an end-all argument for how well that team was built around him. That argument just makes no sense.

Not to turn this into football, but I think you're a little off.

Versatile parts on offense? What does that even mean? Guys who can play multiple positions? I hope you don't mean that.

Versatile = smart? Is that what you meant?

Our offensive line certainly didn't compliment Manning. No running game. Pass protection is above average at best.


The defense built around Manning to get leads? You do realize that is a fault right? A defense built around playing with a lead is not something you set out to do. That's basically saying, yes, we suck at everything else besides our two pass rushers on the outside.

BTW, for being "built" to have a lead for our "great pass rushing," like you said, we rated:

23rd
16th
16th
26th
30th

....in sacks on defense the last 5 years with Manning.


We lost 14 games because we aren't very good and Manning masked a lot of our problems. In other words, because we stunk.

[Indian guy]

He did come through hugely against the Celtics and Bulls...and that matters, but we can't continue to ignore how passive he's been.

And he did it entirely through jumps shots. Every single big basket was a long jumper - which is who he is. He needs to embrace who he is.


Afraid to fail if you ask me.

Yep. And it results from not having enough confidence in his jump shot.

[pegasus]

Please add Dirk and Melo to any examples of what players should act like in game winning situations considering Melo is by far the best and Dirk is better than both Rose and Kobe as well.

But yes, they have different attitudes. I don't agree with the way Kobe plays in those situations, but you can never fault him for shrinking.

I'd gladly add those two, except Melo is not by far the best. In terms of playoffs, he hasn't been in those situations enough to put his regular season clutch performances way ahead of those guys.

[LA_Showtime]

He joined the heat so he could let wade take over in the 4th, he knows he can't handle pressure, this has become more obvious with every passing game.

Lebron James, the cleveland ditching and the miami super trio are a disrespect to the game of bball.

Thank god we still have Kobe Bryant, new era stars are weak.

What's so frustrating is that he showed in Cleveland he can take over in the 4th quarter and be the man. It's like he's got some inferiority complex now that he's got other superstars on his team and he feels like he should defer.

[Kingwillball]

Where was LeBron's post game last night? :facepalm


It pisses me off how LeBron just stands there waiting for something to happen on offense in clutch situations, when he should be posting, cutting to the basket or attacking the basket off the dribble. It amazes me how he can look so unstoppable yet when the game starts to get tight he reverts to p*ssy mode. This guy just doesn't have a winning mentality, which is why we'll never see him win a ring as a clear first option. Every season I hope LeBron would gain the "clutch gene" but time and time again he proves to be nothing but a front running megastar that's afraid to take shots in the 4th quarter. :oldlol: I question his mental toughness.


LeBron is soft, plain and simple.

I have to agree, Lebron left me shaking my head last night.. 4th qtr statline, No points, assists or Rebounds with No shots in around 7 minutes of gameplay. That is inexcusable and Spolestra, Riley and his teammates should make sure he hears about it..

[pegasus]

I have to agree, Lebron left me shaking my head last night.. 4th qtr statline, No points, assists or Rebounds with No shots in around 7 minutes of gameplay. That is inexcusable and Spolestra, Riley and his teammates should make sure he hears about it..

I'm not sure if he does hear that from anyone. It's almost like he lives in a bubble, because he still plays the same.

[hitmanyr2k]

And he did it entirely through jumps shots. Every single big basket was a long jumper - which is who he is. He needs to embrace who he is.



Yep. And it results from not having enough confidence in his jump shot.

Which is why he should have something else in his arsenal when he can't get cheap buckets on the break or has lost confidence in his jumper. I don't see why he can't simply get his ass on the low block and be aggressive. Either try to score or draw the defense to find the open shooter or a cutter to the rim. Anything is better than passing it off and standing harmlessly on the perimeter. He better start using that post game (if he seriously has developed one) and get it tooled because he's going to need it for these kind of games in the playoffs.

[heyhey]

Yep. And it results from not having enough confidence in his jump shot.

Because of his father's abandonment, I think that Lebron might not have confidence in much of anything. it's subtle and subconscious but that self doubt from growing up fatherless is always present. That's why he wears handband to cover up his hairline. It's symbolic of him trying to cover the emotional scars left behind.

Lebron's prolly the type of cat that ask his girl for reassurance when he's in the sack "girl u feeling me down there?"

[pegasus]

Because of his father's abandonment, I think that Lebron might not have confidence in much of anything. it's subtle and subconscious but that self doubt from growing up fatherless is always present. That's why he wears handband to cover up his hairline. It's symbolic of him trying to cover the emotional scars left behind.


Inb4 SimpleJack calls that a pseudo psychoanalysis, although you make valid points.

[Dengness9]

He joined the heat so he could let wade take over in the 4th, he knows he can't handle pressure, this has become more obvious with every passing game.

Lebron James, the cleveland ditching and the miami super trio are a disrespect to the game of bball.

Thank god we still have Kobe Bryant, new era stars are weak.


Excluding Rose and Durant though

[madmax]

Because of his father's abandonment, I think that Lebron might not have confidence in much of anything. it's subtle and subconscious but that self doubt from growing up fatherless is always present. That's why he wears handband to cover up his hairline. It's symbolic of him trying to cover the emotional scars left behind.

Lebron's prolly the type of cat that ask his girl for reassurance when he's in the sack "girl u feeling me down there?"

you clowns never fail to amuse us with your nice theories about Lebron and his personal life:roll: But it's nice to see how one meaningless regular season game brings all the tools from the basement just to hate on a basketball player they know nothing about:applause:

[All Net]

If Lebron has a big game tonight and steps up in the 4th does this thread suddenly mean nothing and it was just one bad game? be interesting if people back track then or not...

People do have the impression Lebron is terrible in the clutch and it's mainly because of the finals. He was terrible but was great in the clutch vs both Celtics and Bulls...over the past 6 years he has been great in the clutch it was just the regular season where he struggled last season and then made up for it sort of in the east playoffs...only to go backwards in the finals...

it's amazing how one season can make people think he has always been terrible in the 4th. He needs to man up and change this and step up when he should be doing as the best player in the NBA.

[LakersReign]

you clowns never fail to amuse us with your nice theories about Lebron and his personal life:roll: But it's nice to see how one meaningless regular season game brings all the tools from the basement just to hate on a basketball player they know nothing about:applause:


says this clown^ speaking from his wealth of experience, when he ran out of the basement just to hate on Kobe(a basketball player he knows nothing about) after the Denver game:facepalm


PURE HYPOCRISY(madmax) AT IT'S BEST!!!!:applause:

[Bigsmoke]

It pisses me off that after a full season plus games LeBron and Wade still haven't found a way to coexist on the floor together. They take turns rather than both going at it. Spo is not imaginative enough for my tastes.

you didnt think the Heat were really going to go 66-0.

teams lose games. deal with it.

8-2 is the best start in Miami Heat history so something is clicking there.

[Brickz187]

Wade went 1 for 8 in the 4th and OT. 1 for ****ing 8. Is anybody slandering him? No because he at least TRIED and wasn't afraid to take the shots. Lebron needs to realize that no1 cares if he misses the shots, just that he actually tries to take them. Is it just one game? Yes. Is this game going to matter? Of course not. It just brings up memories from last years finals and I do not want the same thing to happen this year in the playoffs.

[Bigsmoke]

Wade went 1 for 8 in the 4th and OT. 1 for ****ing 8. Is anybody slandering him? No because he at least TRIED and wasn't afraid to take the shots. Lebron needs to realize that no1 cares if he misses the shots, just that he actually tries to take them. Is it just one game? Yes. Is this game going to matter? Of course not. It just brings up memories from last years finals and I do not want the same thing to happen this year in the playoffs.

u must not been here when dude was missing all of those game winners last season.

really, everybody cares when he misses shots. If LeBron went 1-8 and Wade would have taking 1 or 2 shots, this thread would still be throwing shots at LeBron.

[kentatm]

shots like that 3 are what happen when you have no real offensive system

[Simple Jack]

Inb4 SimpleJack calls that a pseudo psychoanalysis, although you make valid points.

:roll:

[Simple Jack]

I don't care to address the Manning analogy with too much detail; but consider the fact that when injuries hit (and hit hard) Manning made rookies and fill-ins look like pro-bowlers. Coaching and personnel changes had little effect on Manning's dominance.

Colts gave up the 9th most rushing yards per game in 09 and 08. Number 1 in 06.

Teams were running on them all day through most of Manning's career despite your assertion that they abandoned the run game and were forced to throw because of early holes the Colts offense put them in.

The guy with the Colts avatar addressed the rest.

[DMAVS41]

I'd gladly add those two, except Melo is not by far the best. In terms of playoffs, he hasn't been in those situations enough to put his regular season clutch performances way ahead of those guys.

Fair enough about Melo, but he's doing some unheard of things in terms of game winners thus far in his career.

If its playoffs, Dirk or Ray Allen are probably the best game winning players.

[DMAVS41]

And the Manning analogy is idiotic....makes no sense in comparison.

This whole "complimented him well" thing is a valid point, but real championship teams not only have players that compliment the star well, but are also superbly talented.

That is why the Cavs never won, they had some "good fit" players....but those players just happened to not be good enough.

You almost always have to have both to win. Ultimately that is why the Heat ended up losing last year. Superbly talented, but i didn't and still don't like the fit.

Very rarely can a team win off of just talent or just chemistry alone. Championship teams need a combination of both.

[tpols]

Lebron didn't deserve a lot of the criticism he got while he was in Cleveland because it was an impossible situation and his overall play was truly legendary.

Now its different. No passes. No excuses. He's playing like a scrub when it matters most and it simply won't get it done. Pathetic.
People have been saying this for years.. back in Cleveland, when his Cavs were up 2-1 in a series with HCA and they lost game 4. And then Lebron came out and went into the same passive mode he's been displaying now in game 5 when the momentum had turned. A lot of people called him out for that and said it was a detriment on his character. You were one of the biggest opposers to this. Now look at what it ended up foreshadowing.:oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

People have been saying this for years.. back in Cleveland, when his Cavs were up 2-1 in a series with HCA and they lost game 4. And then Lebron came out and went into the same passive mode he's been displaying now in game 5 when the momentum had turned. A lot of people called him out for that and said it was a detriment on his character. You were one of the biggest opposers to this. Now look at what it ended up foreshadowing.:oldlol:

Well sure. But at the time it was an anomaly. Now there is evidence that he might be missing something. I still think it was and is premature to write him off like you and others do...but at least there is some solid evidence for your view.

I also never claimed I can predict the future. I go off what I see and react accordingly. Learned a long time ago that trying to predict what is going to happen for a player/team is a waste of time. Nobody knows....

You say look what it is foreshadowing right now....but what if Lebron plays great and wins the title this year? Will you change your tune? Of course.

And its been 1 year in the playoffs since the series you are talking about....not years....anyone that claimed Lebron was missing something in the 09 playoffs is just a moron.

Reminds me a lot of the idiots that claimed Kobe would never win a title as the man....after 03 and 04...etc. Spent hours debating my friends that Kobe could absolutely win a title as the man. Where are they now? Same morons that claimed MJ couldn't lead a team because he was too selfish. How he'll never be close to Magic or Bird....spent years debating that one. Where are they now? Same clan that said Dirk could never lead a team to the title. You were one of them. Spent all last year debating with you on that. What do you say now? Well you try and over-rate the shit out of Dirk's help, and I would imagine it will be the same excuses and thoughts if Lebron ever wins.

I've seen it all before. From Magic not being clutch...to Kobe being unable to win as the man. To the GOAT not being good enough to lead. To Dirk not being a championship first option. I'll wait and see how Lebron's career actually unfolds before I start judging him ultimately.

Are there some terrible signs right now since that series you talk about? Of course, but the future could hold so many different possibilities that could make a lot of people look like idiots.

[jrong]

Now it's one second. Before it was two. In reality, it was closer to five seconds.

Correction: (of myself) there were actually 10 seconds on the clock when James got the ball back. Just watched the replay. The play was absolutely designed for him. He either decided to take the three or that's what Spo wanted him to do, but whatever the case, he had plenty of time to make a play.

[Phong]

Correction: (of myself) there were actually 10 seconds on the clock when James got the ball back. Just watched the replay. The play was absolutely designed for him. He either decided to take the three or that's what Spo wanted him to do, but whatever the case, he had plenty of time to make a play.He actually had the ball with 13 seconds left.

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/01/12/120112122646207995.gif

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/01/12/120112122653942187.gif

[pauk]

He actually had the ball with 13 seconds left.

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/01/12/120112122646207995.gif

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/01/12/120112122653942187.gif

they needed a 3 obviously and it looks like he got away a decent shot enough to make it.... just didnt fall in.......

lebron just aint no Ray Allen / Reggie Miller type of pure shooter to make those longrange shots at high rate.... especially when you all of the sudden have to take a 3pt shot at that time when you havent been taking any 3pt shot entire season basically..... its as simple as that... you give Lebron a retry of that same shot/situation 3 times and he will make 1 out of 3 in average... why? because he shoots 30% from there.... thats like a 70% chance he will miss it.......... which means a 70% chance to """"choke""""....

I find it laughable and pathetic that someone would think Lebron or Kobe or Wade or anybody of that caliber "shrinks/chokes" whatever.... they have proved themselves there millions of times............... its as simple as SHOOTING PERCENTAGE / LUCK / BAD LUCK.......... or even more simple... missing or making the shot... really....

its not like Lebron drops a 50 point triple double and then when the game is on the line.... he runs in to a corner trembling in fear wiping his tears... because "THE GAME IS ON THE LINE" *in very scary voice*

[LakersReign]

But, according to his 24/7/365 media hype, he's supposed to be able to play every position on the floor, so what's the problem?!

[Dictator]

He actually had the ball with 13 seconds left.

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/01/12/120112122653942187.gif

:oldlol: :oldlol: :lol

[NumberSix]

But, according to his 24/7/365 media hype, he's supposed to be able to play every position on the floor, so what's the problem?!
The problem is the Heat shouldn't have lost that lead. Haslem shouldn't have been stupid getting a T at the end of the game. Without that, there's no overtime and the Heat win by 1 in regulation. I know it's frustrating when you feel like you're not getting the calls, but you can't give away points for a technical at the end of a close game.

With that being said, they should have never blown their lead.

As passive as LeBron was, I can't even really be too mad at it. They did result in successful assists for the most part. I mean, he should have taken the shots, but hey, if you pass it to Bosh who standing right next to you and he makes it, points are points.

Just a bad finish for the heat.

[LakersReign]

The problem is the Heat shouldn't have lost that lead. Haslem shouldn't have been stupid getting a T at the end of the game. Without that, there's no overtime and the Heat win by 1 in regulation. I know it's frustrating when you feel like you're not getting the calls, but you can't give away points for a technical at the end of a close game.

With that being said, they should have never blown their lead.

As passive as LeBron was, I can't even really be too mad at it. They did result in successful assists for the most part. I mean, he should have taken the shots, but hey, if you pass it to Bosh who standing right next to you and he makes it, points are points.

Just a bad finish for the heat.


None of that is new for the Heat, which is why I just laugh at Lebandwagoners already crowing them NBA champs, from the day the season started.

[Indian guy]

Well, he was trying last year.

He took some shots, sure, but by no means was he displaying the level of aggressiveness a superstar should with the game on the line.


The reason I described it as a law of averages thing is because if you follow the career narrative of James's level of clutchness, first it was he's not clutch at all.

Yes, but this was a completely false narrative, overblown by the media because of LeBron passing up some last shots to make the "right play". Fact is, by '06, LeBron was one of the premiere late-game players in the league. IIRC, he was something like Top 3 in 4th qtr scoring in '06, trailing only Kobe and Wade.


Now, he's anti-clutch again.

It isn't so much that he isn't coming through late in games, it's that he looks too scared to even try. This was a non-issue in Cleveland, but LeBron clearly lacks confidence in his current style of play to be aggressive in the 4th qtr. He wants to drive, but since he can't, he'll just pray somebody else wins Miami the game.

[Dictator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mMioJ5szc

Lebron needs to learn from the one who shall not be named.

[jrong]

Your theoretical "who's turn is it" was trumped by what ACTUALLY HAPPENED. Wade had an ISO and passed off at the very end of the shot clock. WADE had the ball. He was attempting to score. That isn't a "play for LeBron".

This has been debunked. Look at the video several posts above. James had at least 10 seconds on the clock. He could have shot, driven, passed, backed his man inside, anything. He had time to do whatever he wanted. You are entitled to your own agenda, but not your own set of facts.

[madmax]

This has been debunked. Look at the video several posts above. James had at least 10 seconds on the clock. He could have shot, driven, passed, backed his man inside, anything. He had time to do whatever he wanted. You are entitled to your own agenda, but not your own set of facts.

no, he couldn't have backed his man inside, since it would have eaten up the clock and Heat were trailing by 3...but nice try anyway:lol He must've taken a three pointer one way or another and he clearly wasn't confident with this shot for quite some time now.

[Phong]

LeBron took two threes in the game. One was with 7 seconds left in OT. Wade had taken the shot clock down to 2 and passed it off to LeBron who was forced to shoot a bailout 3 from 27 feet. Thats not on LeBron. That was on Wade. The other 3 was with 2 seconds left down 5.

So you are pounding on him because he didn't drain an impossibly long 3 as the shot clock expired. Only you didn't even know that. You piled on and didn't have ANY facts. Which makes you ridiculous.Making up shit and thinking nobody can verify with footage of the game. :roll:

FACTS:
1. there was 20.2 sec left in the game and no shot clock to worry about.
2. Wade inbounded the ball to LeBron
3. Lebron kept the ball and passed the ball back to Wade at the 16.0 sec mark
4. Wade passed it back to LeBron at the 13.3 sec.
5. LeBron shot with 10.7 sec on the clock

CONCLUSION: You're full of shit.

[LakersReign]

Making up shit and thinking nobody can verify with footage of the game. :roll:

FACTS:
1. there was 20.2 sec left in the game and no shot clock to worry about.
2. Wade inbounded the ball to LeBron
3. Lebron kept the ball and passed the ball back to Wade at the 16.0 sec mark
4. Wade passed it back to LeBron at the 13.3 sec.
5. LeBron shot with 10.7 sec on the clock

CONCLUSION: You're full of shit.


He's an OBVIOUS Lebandwagoner, would you really expect any less?!:facepalm

[jchu]

Lebron cares too much about what people think of him. you can see it in his eyes.

[NumberSix]

Has a single person mentioned that Wade was 1/8 in the 4th qtr?

[All Net]

Has a single person mentioned that Wade was 1/8 in the 4th qtr?

hush...

[LakersReign]

Has a single person mentioned that Wade was 1/8 in the 4th qtr?

They both stunk it up in the 4th. But it's just funny reading these posts where, Lebandwagoners say it's "Lebron's team", but then counter the loss with "oh well , it's Wade's ream, but he missed shots, and cost the Heat the game." And the Heat fans on the other side saying, it's Wade's team, but Lebron is supposed to be all that, so what happened"?!


ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS!!!!:lol

[hitmanyr2k]

Has a single person mentioned that Wade was 1/8 in the 4th qtr?

Yep, and it was acknowledged that Wade shot poorly but at least the guy tried to do something. There's really no excuse for Lebron not to shoot one shot the entire 4th quarter.

[HurricaneKid]

Making up shit and thinking nobody can verify with footage of the game. :roll:

FACTS:
1. there was 20.2 sec left in the game and no shot clock to worry about.
2. Wade inbounded the ball to LeBron
3. Lebron kept the ball and passed the ball back to Wade at the 16.0 sec mark
4. Wade passed it back to LeBron at the 13.3 sec.
5. LeBron shot with 10.7 sec on the clock

CONCLUSION: You're full of shit.

Apologies. All I had to go on was my buddy I was on the phone with as it happened. If you think I am in the bag for LeBron you should meet him. Lets just say his play by play won't get him any offers from TNT any time soon.

[che guevara]

Yes, but this was a completely false narrative, overblown by the media because of LeBron passing up some last shots to make the "right play". Fact is, by '06, LeBron was one of the premiere late-game players in the league. IIRC, he was something like Top 3 in 4th qtr scoring in '06, trailing only Kobe and Wade.
Completely true, people seem to have willingly forgotten Lebron from '08-'10 when he was the best crunch time player in the league. There's a reason why Cleveland overachieved badly in close games throughout Lebron's career there.

[Oositdwn]

Has a single person mentioned that Wade was 1/8 in the 4th qtr?
You mean the guy that realised that someone had to step up and take control of the game? He had the guts to actually go for his shots and try and make something happen. What did Lebron do? Stand on the perimeter motionless and when the ball gets to him he plays hot potato.

[RedBlackAttack]

Not to turn this into football, but I think you're a little off.

Versatile parts on offense? What does that even mean? Guys who can play multiple positions? I hope you don't mean that.

Versatile = smart? Is that what you meant?

Our offensive line certainly didn't compliment Manning. No running game. Pass protection is above average at best.


The defense built around Manning to get leads? You do realize that is a fault right? A defense built around playing with a lead is not something you set out to do. That's basically saying, yes, we suck at everything else besides our two pass rushers on the outside.

BTW, for being "built" to have a lead for our "great pass rushing," like you said, we rated:

23rd
16th
16th
26th
30th

....in sacks on defense the last 5 years with Manning.


We lost 14 games because we aren't very good and Manning masked a lot of our problems. In other words, because we stunk.
Obviously, you know much more about the Colts than I do. However, the reason the analogy is at least useful is because both franchises lost arguably the best player in the game and both franchises went from being elite teams to picking No. 1 in the draft (actually, the Cavs' pick was No. 4 overall, but you get the point).

Now, obviously there are inherent differences when comparing football to basketball, mostly because basketball has five guys on the court at a time and football has 11 offensive players and 11 defensive players, not to mention 11 special teamers. In general, an individual is much, much less important in football than it is in basketball. However, Manning is a pretty unique case.

To clarify the 'versatile' thing, I was referring mainly to the WRs and TEs. Maybe 'versatile' wasn't the best word to use, but it was 5 in the morning and my brain was only half working. What I was referring to is the playmakers' ability to adjust on the fly, which is not something that you can just do with any players. Dallas Clark could go from being a useful blocker in running situations to one of the best pass catching TEs in the league based on audibles at the line from Manning. Tamme is another up-and-coming TE that can adjust to Manning's on the fly approach.

At wide receiver, you have Reggie Wayne and Austin Collie, both of whom are capable of successfully running go routes or going across the middle, based on what Manning sees from the defense. Guys that are willing to go across the middle and can hit you for big plays are pretty rare in the NFL. Garcon is more of a big play guy, but you get the point of what I meant by 'versatile.' And, the Colts needed guys like that because Manning does so much work at the line of scrimmage, where you can't have different packages running in and out of the game based on the playcall.

Obviously, the analogy doesn't work perfectly, but broadly speaking, both franchises went from the top of the league to the bottom after losing that unique player. And, I don't think that the Colts 'stink' without Manning. I saw them win enough low scoring playoff games to deduce that. But, they need Manning in there to compete... That is what the team was built for.

It isn't easy to find pass rushers like Mathis and Freeney... Trust me, my franchise has been searching for players like that for a decade.