Young Allen Iverson or Current Derrick Rose?

[Scholar]

I wanted to say, "Prime AI," but we don't know how DRose might end up being, so it'd be more fair to ask about the younger AI, as in from the late '90s/early '00s.

Why this comparison?

Well, both are scoring point guards who can easily drop 30+ on a team one night and dish out 10+ assists the next.
You can get mad about this if you'd like, but another similarity between the two is the fact that both had terrible scoring efficiencies, almost to the point of being labelled "chuckers."

I think the Answer is one of the best PGs of all-time, even though he wasn't a true PG.
Rose? He might be the closest thing to a modern day AI than anyone could ever be, and if he continues to play the way he has been lately, he might be up there, next to or surpassing AI.

So, who would you rather start a team with: a young AI or current Derrick Rose? And why?

Lastly,

[I.Malcolm]

I wanted to say, "Prime AI," but we don't know how DRose might end up being, so it'd be more fair to ask about the younger AI, as in from the late '90s/early '00s.

Why this comparison?

Well, both are scoring point guards who can easily drop 30+ on a team one night and dish out 10+ assists the next.
You can get mad about this if you'd like, but another similarity between the two is the fact that both had terrible scoring efficiencies, almost to the point of being labelled "chuckers."

I think the Answer is one of the best PGs of all-time, even though he wasn't a true PG.
Rose? He might be the closest thing to a modern day AI than anyone could ever be, and if he continues to play the way he has been lately, he might be up there, next to or surpassing AI.

So, who would you rather start a team with: a young AI or current Derrick Rose? And why?

Lastly,

Current Rose, solely because we have no idea what his ceiling will be and he's already putting up beastly #s.

[Scholar]

Crap. Stupid iPod Touch.

I wanted to add:

Lastly, another similarity the two share is the fact that they could find the most impossible ways to get to the basket & they weren't afraid to make contact to draw fouls.

Obviously, DRose is the stronger & bigger of the two, but AI could easily hold his own against anybody.

[Lebron23]

Give me the Answer

[Xiao Yao You]

Rose. He's a team player. Higher basketball IQ. Doesn't throw up prayers against double and triple teams while his teammates stand around wide open. Doesn't take tons of 3's even though he can't hit them.

[TheTruth11]

Rose

Like Stacy King would say, "bigger, stronger, faster than you....... AI"

Plus Rose is killa! Super clutch. And then he brings hard hat and lunch paid with him to work everyday. A work ethic that rubs off on teammates.

[O_City_Thunder]

Listen....we talkin about PRACTICE. We ain't talkin about the game....We talking about PRACTICE man!

[No Name]

I mean how SILLY is that?

[tgan3]

Allen Iverson is my favourite player of alll time, but it would be hard. I would choose Iverson just to watch him play just for the fact that im such a fan of his. But realistically if I want to win more games I would choose Rose.

Like what everyone else had said, Rose is stronger and taller, plays more of a team game and has a higher ceiling. The only edge that Iverson has is that he's such a relentless scorer he can drop 50 anytime in his prime.

[Legends66NBA7]

Under today's rules... Give me young Allen Iverson.

[Aussie Dunker]

Rose

Like Stacy King would say, "bigger, stronger, faster than you....... AI"
.


:no:

[Clippersfan86]

Very tough for these reasons.

1. Rose is far less injury prone. His body/athleticism is built to last longer.

2. Iverson had more heart and toughness.

3. Rose has more upside overall but will never be the scorer Iverson was.

It really can go either way. I'd take Rose probably due to him being less injury prone and having a better work ethic.

[Rhinox]

Very tough for these reasons.

1. Rose is far less injury prone. His body/athleticism is built to last longer.

2. Iverson had more heart and toughness.

3. Rose has more upside overall but will never be the scorer Iverson was.

It really can go either way. I'd take Rose probably due to him being less injury prone and having a better work ethic.


More heart? what?

[Tenchi Ryu]

More heart? what?
Exactly...how he had more heart CF? Its not like he gives up or something...

[Aussie Dunker]

Exactly...how he had more heart CF? Its not like he gives up or something...

I don't think is knocking Rose's heart, which seems pretty damn legit, but how many players in the history of the game have had more heart than A.I??... That was his strength :applause:

[Clippersfan86]

Did you guys watch prime Iverson? Rose has plenty of heart, clutch and leadership. Iverson just had more. That dude had Sam Cassell sized balls of steel. When I think of Iverson.. I think toughness and heart. The fact that a 6'0" 175 pound player could constantly take a beating like that and fight through injuries.. and have so much mental toughness as well... was mindblowing. He was just like Kobe where he was pretty much always playing with multiple nagging injuries.

Players just don't come like that anymore.

[NuggetsFan]

Give me Iverson. People will harp about him being hard to build around, witch is true but Rose has had his perfect team from the get go. That Bulls D and there way there O is built is perfect for guy's like Rose\Iverson.

Not a knock on Rose or anything, Iverson was a generational scorer.

[Xiao Yao You]

That was his strength

Indeed. He was a warrior. Too bad he didn't have the smarts to match it.

[Alamo]

Iverson was a much better scorer, Rose is a better everything else.

[NuggetsFan]

Iverson was a much better scorer, Rose is a better everything else.

Iverson was better at getting into the lanes and forcing turnovers. Rose is probably a better "true PG" in the sense that he can run an offense better but Iverson was still right up there with him in getting others involved. He was deadly with his penetration.

[brahmabull117]

Rose bad efficiency??


He's averaging a very solid 1.34 points per shot this year (respectable 1.26 pps last year) - for much of Iverson's career, he was around 1.10 pps to 1.20 PPS. Iverson was the definition of chucker


Big difference between the 2 players - Rose is a much better passer, less selfish and MUCH better defender



Rose >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Iverson

[Clippersfan86]

Iverson was a much better scorer, Rose is a better everything else.

I'd say they are a wash defensively. Rose has an edge on man D because he's big enough and strong enough to body up any PG but Iverson was WAY better playing the passing lanes. Rose is a pathetic 1 spg career player despite his incredible quickness and athleticism. Iverson broke steals records and had a career average of 2.2 spg.

People also underrate the passing of prime Iverson. 6 straight seasons of 7+ apg including a peak of 8 apg one year (same as Rose nearly).

[brahmabull117]

Give me Iverson. People will harp about him being hard to build around, witch is true but Rose has had his perfect team from the get go. That Bulls D and there way there O is built is perfect for guy's like Rose\Iverson.

Not a knock on Rose or anything, Iverson was a generational scorer.



better scorer??? Iverson tried to score 30 points per game every year, Rose has never really tried to do that. The only reason Iverson scored more points is because he used to take like 24 or even 25 shots a game during certain seasons. Rose would lead the league in scoring if he took that many shots



For people here taking Iverson, I hope you realize that Rose is basically Iverson with 5 inches of height, much better court vision, higher basketball IQ and much better effort on defense

[Clippersfan86]

better scorer??? Iverson tried to score 30 points per game every year, Rose has never really tried to do that. The only reason Iverson scored more points is because he used to take like 24 or even 25 shots a game during certain seasons. Rose would lead the league in scoring if he took that many shots



For people here taking Iverson, I hope you realize that Rose is basically Iverson with 5 inches of height, much better court vision, higher basketball IQ and much better effort on defense

:facepalm . Despite him being less efficient NO QUESTION Iverson was the better scorer. As many have said before... once they took away hand checking... Iverson's scoring jumped to 33 ppg despite him being out of his prime. That was on like 45 percent shooting too.

If Iverson played with the pus*y rules/reffing favoring wing players like Rose now IN HIS PRIME... no question he would put up 35 ppg a couple seasons. BTW Rose has never put as much effort as Iverson in any aspect of basketball. You clearly didn't watch Iverson play. His hustle and effort+determination blows Rose away.

[brahmabull117]

I'd say they are a wash defensively. Rose has an edge on man D because he's big enough and strong enough to body up any PG but Iverson was WAY better playing the passing lanes. Rose is a pathetic 1 spg career player despite his incredible quickness and athleticism. Iverson broke steals records and had a career average of 2.2 spg.


Dude I used to love watching Iverson growing up as a little kid - I watched all the sixers games. AI was one of the worst defensive point guards in the league

I can't remember how many times I watched him either get dominated off the drive by bigger point guards or gamble on the steal and leave his team in terrible defensive position. He was lucky in that he played on a team with a bunch of great defensive players around him because he would have gotten sliced and diced trying to play defense on an average defensive team



People also underrate the passing of prime Iverson. 6 straight seasons of 7+ apg including a peak of 8 apg one year (same as Rose nearly).



huh??? Iverson only had 5 seasons in his career with 7 + APG and his best season was 7.9 in 2004 - 2005. Rose is already at nearly 9 APG and wouldn't surprise me to get to 10 in a few seasons - he's an awesome passer

[NuggetsFan]

better scorer??? Iverson tried to score 30 points per game every year, Rose has never really tried to do that. The only reason Iverson scored more points is because he used to take like 24 or even 25 shots a game during certain seasons. Rose would lead the league in scoring if he took that many shots



For people here taking Iverson, I hope you realize that Rose is basically Iverson with 5 inches of height, much better court vision, higher basketball IQ and much better effort on defense

A) Iverson's teams needed him to score the ball like that. It's how there teams were built. When he came to Denver, with Carmelo by his side his efficiency increased and took like 19ish shots to score 25ish.

B) Creating your shot is a skill. Creating 22-23 GOOD looks that help your teams win is a pretty hard task.

Rose isn't some efficient dynamo. Hell this year's playoffs he took what? like 23-24 shots to score 27. Iverson was in the same position as him. Teams relied on him ALOT offensively. Iverson would prob rape at the free throw line these days too.

Not a knock on Rose like I said. Rose and Iverson are pretty similar, can't hate on one while you love the other.

[Clippersfan86]

It was a typo. I meant 5. Also 7.9= 8 bro..... I round up for everybody including Rose.

[Clippersfan86]

Brahma as I said.. there are two main aspects to defense. On ball defense and off ball defense. Iverson was a superior off the ball defender... as I said like playing passing lanes. Derrick Rose is a more capable man defender.

As for players torching Iverson... I'd love to see you play the 2 spot as a 6'0 175 pound guard. Rose is BIGGER than most players he matches up with and he plays the 1. Yes Iverson played a lot of his career at the 1 as well... but his prime with the Sixers he was a 2. This was a guy who was matched up with prime Kobe who has 6 inches and 40+ pounds on him.

[ralph_i_el]

AI is more entertaining.
Other than that, I consider it a wash

[Alamo]

I'd say they are a wash defensively. Rose has an edge on man D because he's big enough and strong enough to body up any PG but Iverson was WAY better playing the passing lanes. Rose is a pathetic 1 spg career player despite his incredible quickness and athleticism. Iverson broke steals records and had a career average of 2.2 spg.

People also underrate the passing of prime Iverson. 6 straight seasons of 7+ apg including a peak of 8 apg one year(same as Rose nearly).

Not the thread title. Also, Iverson never did that.

Lol Iverson was great, there's no need to be making up stats here.

[brahmabull117]

A) Iverson's teams needed him to score the ball like that. It's how there teams were built. When he came to Denver, with Carmelo by his side his efficiency increased and took like 19ish shots to score 25ish.

okay but last year's bulls team wasn't really that much more talented offensively than those 76ers teams and Rose still score 25 ppg on 19.7 shots


Look at the difference in offense, those 76ers teams were routinely god awful in almost all offensive stats while the bulls were a decent offensive team last year despite having very little offensive talent outside of Rose


Was Iverson a better volume scorer?? Of course. Was Iverson a more effective all around offensive player?? I just don't see how anybody can argue that. Rose is averaging 116 points per 100 possessions this year, Iverson in his prime was averaging about 100-105



B) Creating your shot is a skill. Creating 22-23 GOOD looks that help your teams win is a pretty hard task.

Okay I agree, but Iverson still used to have sometimes as many as 3-4 shots per game that were bad shots too early in the shot clock



Rose isn't some efficient dynamo. Hell this year's playoffs he took what? like 23-24 shots to score 27. Iverson was in the same position as him. Teams relied on him ALOT offensively. Iverson would prob rape at the free throw line these days too.


One bad playoff cold streak doesn't mean much to me. Rose is still at about 1.30 PPS when you include this year and last year's regular season numbers. Now if Rose does that again in playoffs this year, then you got a point



Not a knock on Rose like I said. Rose and Iverson are pretty similar, can't hate on one while you love the other.


I loved Allen Iverson growing up as a little kid but the fact is that he was inefficient, took too many bad shots, played terrible defense and only averaged 6 assists per game despite absolutely dominating the ball


Do I want to watch Allen Iverson?? Fukk yes, he was electrifying. Would I consider taking Iverson over Rose?? Hell no

[nathanjizzle]

clippersfan hasnt even watched rose play more then 2 games...

[brahmabull117]

As for players torching Iverson... I'd love to see you play the 2 spot as a 6'0 175 pound guard. Rose is BIGGER than most players he matches up with and he plays the 1. Yes Iverson played a lot of his career at the 1 as well... but his prime with the Sixers he was a 2. This was a guy who was matched up with prime Kobe who has 6 inches and 40+ pounds on him.

okay but height is a part of the discussion


we're not talking about who did more with their natural offensive talent, we're talking about who was the more effective all around player.

[Rocker09]

AI was a more explosive scorer but I'd pick D rose because of his height advantage and better basketball IQ...

[kumquat]

D.Rose -

Iverson was a ball pounder who didn't know how to play with scorers around him.

The more scoring help Iverson had the worse he became, in his early years he didn't know what to do with team mates that could score, still had no idea in his latter years. The epitomy of a ball hog.

[hitmanyr2k]

This is a no-brainer. I'm taking Rose for his work ethic, mental approach to the game and the fact that he's very coachable. I pray he never goes down the path of Iverson but from the looks of it I don't have much to worry about. The kid has a good head on his shoulders.

[Nelson14]

ai

[TheNaturalWR]

better scorer??? Iverson tried to score 30 points per game every year, Rose has never really tried to do that. The only reason Iverson scored more points is because he used to take like 24 or even 25 shots a game during certain seasons. Rose would lead the league in scoring if he took that many shots



For people here taking Iverson, I hope you realize that Rose is basically Iverson with 5 inches of height, much better court vision, higher basketball IQ and much better effort on defense

With the amount of shots Rose takes how is he not trying to score 30? He's just not the scorer Iverson was.

[DaHeezy]

Rose. He's a team player. Higher basketball IQ. Doesn't throw up prayers against double and triple teams while his teammates stand around wide open. Doesn't take tons of 3's even though he can't hit them.

You sound like you've never seen the Sixers play before. When has AI ever thrown up prayers? He was able to get a clean look off anybody. He certainbly never threw it up into a double or triple team.
As for not passing to open teammates? Do you know what AI's assist totals were? Tell me an SG with a higher assist total? The objective of an SG IS to create your own shot pass if open. So if you can get an open look, take it, nobody was ever better at creating space for a shot.
Wo quit talking out your @ss.

[hkfosho]

The one who goes to practice

[Mach_3]

Are we going by today's rules? If we are then AI no question. There ain't a player in the league that would be able to stop a young AI from getting to the rim without handchecking him :lol

[markymark]

This is a no-brainer. I'm taking Rose for his work ethic, mental approach to the game and the fact that he's very coachable. I pray he never goes down the path of Iverson but from the looks of it I don't have much to worry about. The kid has a good head on his shoulders.

You need some serious education brah...

[brahmabull117]

With the amount of shots Rose takes how is he not trying to score 30? He's just not the scorer Iverson was.

Rose is taking 15.5 shots a game right now, Iverson had seasons where he nearly doubled that

[RaininTwos]

Give AI Rose's teams and he would have been in the NBA Finals last year.

[SuperPippen]

:facepalm . Despite him being less efficient NO QUESTION Iverson was the better scorer. As many have said before... once they took away hand checking... Iverson's scoring jumped to 33 ppg despite him being out of his prime. That was on like 45 percent shooting too.

If Iverson played with the pus*y rules/reffing favoring wing players like Rose now IN HIS PRIME... no question he would put up 35 ppg a couple seasons. BTW Rose has never put as much effort as Iverson in any aspect of basketball. You clearly didn't watch Iverson play. His hustle and effort+determination blows Rose away.

:wtf:

How does one objectively measure something like "heart" or "hustle" or"effort" or "determination?" As far as I am aware, there is no statistic that provides any sort of accurate representation of a player's "effort" or "hustle."

Saying Iverson's hustle and effort "blows Rose away" is pretty idiotic. One guy is extremely coachable and likes to be pushed; the other guy made a big deal out of going to practice.

Look, I'm not questioning AI's heart. He was one of the fiercest and toughest competitors to ever play the game. But Rose is no slouch in the heart department, either. All I know is that these two players are both guys that would put their bodies, minds, and souls on the line before they would lose a game. Saying one blows the other away is silly, plain and simple.

[Alamo]

Rose is taking 15.5 shots a game right now, Iverson had seasons where he nearly doubled that


This. Iverson was a better scorer. But idk where the idea comes from that Rose is an inefficient shooter. He simply doesn't take as many shots as other people. This season he's shooting 45% from the field, and his career fg 47%. Rose's FT shooting is also underrated. Shooting 89% now, it was like that near the end of last season too. His hard work really shows up in game.

[brahmabull117]

This. Iverson was a better scorer. But idk where the idea comes from that Rose is an inefficient shooter. He simply doesn't take as many shots as other people. This season he's shooting 45% from the field, and his career fg 47%. Rose's FT shooting is also underrated. Shooting 89% now, it was like that near the end of last season too. His hard work really shows up in game.


Iverson was always a guy who wanted to score a ton of points every game



Rose is a guy who wouldn't mind averaging 18-10 if that's what the best thing is for his team. There are games where he won't look to score at all if the rest of his team is dominating offensively. Rose takes over if he needs to, Iverson took as many as 25-30 shots a game every game regardless of how his teammates were playing


Defensively, the difference is just huge as well. D Rose is a very solid man defender who can even play shooting guards cause of his size and strength. Iverson was a defensive liability

[ThePointGuard11]

I like both players (Iverson being my 2nd all-time favorite player behind Isiah Thomas), but who would be the supporting cast? Or are we just talking as individual players? Iverson was the better scorer and played the passing lanes like no other. He was underrated as a passer (YES, I said it) but I agree that his on-ball defense was pretty terrible. D. Rose is good, I love the way he plays the game, he goes all out all the time the same way Iverson did. I'm not sure where people get the notion that he's some type of awesome on ball defender, because he's not. He's better than Iverson at it, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

If I had to choose one, I would choose Iverson. However, if Rose continues to develop his outside shot then he will probably go on to be a better player than Iverson. The one thing, I question about Rose's game is the "controlled chaos" how long will he be able to play like that? I guess the development of a consistent jumper will compensate for the loss of speed later on in his career.

[Clippersfan86]

:wtf:

How does one objectively measure something like "heart" or "hustle" or"effort" or "determination?" As far as I am aware, there is no statistic that provides any sort of accurate representation of a player's "effort" or "hustle."

Saying Iverson's hustle and effort "blows Rose away" is pretty idiotic. One guy is extremely coachable and likes to be pushed; the other guy made a big deal out of going to practice.

Look, I'm not questioning AI's heart. He was one of the fiercest and toughest competitors to ever play the game. But Rose is no slouch in the heart department, either. All I know is that these two players are both guys that would put their bodies, minds, and souls on the line before they would lose a game. Saying one blows the other away is silly, plain and simple.

Well considering I'm not a fan/stan of either player... yet have watched both extensively... I think I'm qualified to say which player seems to have more heart. Just because you can't quantify it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's like leadership.... you can see who the best leaders in the NBA are.. but how can you prove it numerically? I already said Rose is no slouch. Iverson no question had the heart/toughness edge though.

[Clippersfan86]

Iverson was always a guy who wanted to score a ton of points every game



Rose is a guy who wouldn't mind averaging 18-10 if that's what the best thing is for his team. There are games where he won't look to score at all if the rest of his team is dominating offensively. Rose takes over if he needs to, Iverson took as many as 25-30 shots a game every game regardless of how his teammates were playing


Defensively, the difference is just huge as well. D Rose is a very solid man defender who can even play shooting guards cause of his size and strength. Iverson was a defensive liability

I love how you conveniently say this when Rose is struggling this year to score... and taking less shots. In previous years he was FAR more aggressive offensively. So yes.. let's take a 10 game sample over 3 seasons and make a point with it. Reality here is Rose was an 18-20 shot player last year and will no doubt return to that soon. Just because he's at 15 now doesn't mean that's the type of player he is.

[brahmabull117]

Well considering I'm not a fan/stan of either player... yet have watched both extensively... I think I'm qualified to say which player seems to have more heart. Just because you can't quantify it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's like leadership.... you can see who the best leaders in the NBA are.. but how can you prove it numerically? I already said Rose is no slouch. Iverson no question had the heart/toughness edge though.


If you're talking about leadership/quality as a teammate, I'm baffled by the people who would take Iverson over Rose


Rose is very coachable, works as hard as anybody (especially in practice), is very unselfish and is beloved by his teammates. Which one of these things was really true about Iverson??

[brahmabull117]

I love how you conveniently say this when Rose is struggling this year to score... and taking less shots. In previous years he was FAR more aggressive offensively. So yes.. let's take a 10 game sample over 3 seasons and make a point with it. Reality here is Rose was an 18-20 shot player last year and will no doubt return to that soon. Just because he's at 15 now doesn't mean that's the type of player he is.

The bulls had very little offensive talent around Rose last year and he still averaged a very respectful 19.7 shots per game. Iverson on last year's bulls team would have taken 23-25 shots a game



This year, I don't expect Rose to go above 15-17 shots a game because of the improvement in shooting guard with Rip Hamilton

[Clippersfan86]

The bulls had very little offensive talent around Rose last year and he still averaged a very respectful 19.7 shots per game. Iverson on last year's bulls team would have taken 23-25 shots a game



This year, I don't expect Rose to go above 15-17 shots a game because of the improvement in shooting guard with Rip Hamilton

No doubt Iverson is more of a volume scorer. Nobody will deny that. You can't discredit somebody as a scorer though because they are shooting more. As long as they are efficient it doesn't matter. I don't see why 20 shots a game is more respectable compared to 23-25. They can both be respectable if they are within the offense and good looks (which they were for Iverson).

[Clippersfan86]

If you're talking about leadership/quality as a teammate, I'm baffled by the people who would take Iverson over Rose


Rose is very coachable, works as hard as anybody (especially in practice), is very unselfish and is beloved by his teammates. Which one of these things was really true about Iverson??

I was using leadership as an example. Not the comparison. Obviously Rose is the better leader/worker. I was saying Iverson had more toughness/heart. I already said I'd take Rose due to his maturity, leadership, not being injury prone and being a lot bigger/stronger.

[Alamo]

I love how you conveniently say this when Rose is struggling this year to score... and taking less shots. In previous years he was FAR more aggressive offensively. So yes.. let's take a 10 game sample over 3 seasons and make a point with it. Reality here is Rose was an 18-20 shot player last year and will no doubt return to that soon. Just because he's at 15 now doesn't mean that's the type of player he is.

You don't watch Bulls games at all do you? :facepalm

Btw, he is averaging 1.8 less shots than his career average. You can't blame him last year because he was the only offense his team had. And he took 20 shots because he had to win the games(which he did). But still whats 20 shots and 25ppg compared to Iversons 30 shots and 30ppg?

[brahmabull117]

No doubt Iverson is more of a volume scorer. Nobody will deny that. You can't discredit somebody as a scorer though because they are shooting more. As long as they are efficient it doesn't matter. I don't see why 20 shots a game is more respectable compared to 23-25. They can both be respectable if they are within the offense and good looks (which they were for Iverson).


I agree, I have no problem with Michael Jordan taking 23 shots a game when he's shooting 53% from the field - I have a problem with Iverson taking 23 shots a game and shooting 42% from the field



The 76ers were a terrible offensive team with Iverson at the helm, I think you put Rose on those 76ers teams and they would go from being awful to about average offensvely

[Clippersfan86]

You don't watch Bulls games at all do you? :facepalm

Btw, he is averaging 1.5 less shots than his career average. You can't blame him last year because he was the only offense his team had. And he took 20 shots because he had to win the games(which he did). But still whats 20 shots and 25ppg compared to Iversons 30 shots and 30ppg?

1.5 shots less is noticeable. He's also scoring 20 ppg which means he's being less aggressive getting to the free throw line as well. You guys are newer fans and you're ignoring something huge. Iverson's prime was against some very imposing defenses. Teams that don't exist in this era. Not only that but the league allowed hand checking, more physical play and harder fouls.

The proof is on the paper. Look at the very next year Iverson had in Denver after hand checking was removed. Big jump in all around stats and efficiency.

[juju151111]

I love how you conveniently say this when Rose is struggling this year to score... and taking less shots. In previous years he was FAR more aggressive offensively. So yes.. let's take a 10 game sample over 3 seasons and make a point with it. Reality here is Rose was an 18-20 shot player last year and will no doubt return to that soon. Just because he's at 15 now doesn't mean that's the type of player he is.
Your a ****ing idiot. Even Rose said like 2 weeks ago the only reason he turned into a scoring PG was because of his College Coach. Rose needed to shoot a lot last season, but with Booz/Noah/Brewer coming in healthy you see his shots go down and asts go up.

[brahmabull117]

1.5 shots less is noticeable. He's also scoring 20 ppg which means he's being less aggressive getting to the free throw line as well. You guys are newer fans and you're ignoring something huge. Iverson's prime was against some very imposing defenses. Teams that don't exist in this era. Not only that but the league allowed hand checking, more physical play and harder fouls.

The proof is on the paper. Look at the very next year Iverson had in Denver after hand checking was removed. Big jump in all around stats and efficiency.



his jump in efficiency was due to better shot selection



He went from taking 25 shots per game to 20 shots a game

[Clippersfan86]

his jump in efficiency was due to better shot selection



He went from taking 25 shots per game to 20 shots a game

:facepalm . If he went from taking 25 shots down to 20... yet increasing his scoring to 33... you honestly think it was his shot selection miraculously changing and not defenses? No dude... it was the defense. A smaller player like him.... is going to be affected greatly by hand checking. It means he can't go anywhere.

[Alamo]

1.5 shots less is noticeable. He's also scoring 20 ppg which means he's being less aggressive getting to the free throw line as well. You guys are newer fans and you're ignoring something huge. Iverson's prime was against some very imposing defenses. Teams that don't exist in this era. Not only that but the league allowed hand checking, more physical play and harder fouls.

The proof is on the paper. Look at the very next year Iverson had in Denver after hand checking was removed. Big jump in all around stats and efficiency.

But if you watched the games you would noticed that it's because his team is healthy and playing better offense. Last year was the only time Rose played like that offensively. His sophomore year he took less shots and was shooting 49% fg.

[Clippersfan86]

But if you watched the games you would noticed that it's because his team is healthy and playing better offense. Last year was the only time Rose played like that offensively. His sophomore year he took less shots and was shooting 49% fg.

His shot increase had nothing to do with teammates dude. Last year the Bulls got BETTER talent wise. In Rose's first two years the talent on the Bulls was nothing to write home about yet he took LESS shots than when they were more loaded on talent. The reason for this is because Chicago WANTS him to be the main scorer and be aggressive (with good reason). So this drop has absolutely nothing to do with his teammates playing better.

It has to do with him having games where he shoots 10 shots. He's still playing very efficient.. he's just not shooting as much as he should/usually does.

[ThePointGuard11]

As much as I loved watching the guy play, the problem with Allen Iverson's game is that it never really progressed. He was an undersized volume shooting guard at Georgetown and continued to be that in the NBA. It has always been, give Allen the ball and let him do his thing. He's one of the most stubborn players in the history of the league :oldlol: and only one man was able to tame him for a few seasons and that's Larry Brown. His passing ability wasn't terrible but at times, his teammates were afraid to shoot (especially Eric Snow) and would just pass the ball right back to him. One can only wonder what Iverson would have been had he played on better teams.

Rose's ability to adapt and his off-season work ethic SHOULD ultimately make him a better player than Iverson. At the end of the day, Allen Iverson was his own worst enemy and I can't really blame NBA teams for blackballing him today. He could have been very dangerous as the 6th man for a championship contender but was/is too stubborn to come off the bench. Proper guidance and the ability to heed the words of coaches and staff is what will ultimately separate these two.

[Clippersfan86]

As much as I loved watching the guy play, the problem with Allen Iverson's game is that it never really progressed. He was an undersized volume shooting guard at Georgetown and continued to be that in the NBA. It has always been, give Allen the ball and let him do his thing. He's one of the most stubborn players in the history of the league :oldlol: and only one man was able to tame him for a few seasons and that's Larry Brown. His passing ability wasn't terrible but at times, his teammates were afraid to shoot (especially Eric Snow) and would just pass the ball right back to him. One can only wonder what Iverson would have been had he played on better teams.

Rose's ability to adapt and his off-season work ethic SHOULD ultimately make him a better player than Iverson. At the end of the day, Allen Iverson was his own worst enemy and I can't really blame NBA teams for blackballing him today. He could have been very dangerous as the 6th man for a championship contender but was/is too stubborn to come off the bench. Proper guidance and the ability to heed the words of coaches and staff is what will ultimately separate these two.

Yup. Rose is like a pitbull. He keeps working nonstop and is VERY coachable. He's literally a perfect player to coach.

[Alamo]

His shot increase had nothing to do with teammates dude. Last year the Bulls got BETTER talent wise. In Rose's first two years the talent on the Bulls was nothing to write home about yet he took LESS shots than when they were more loaded on talent. The reason for this is because Chicago WANTS him to be the main scorer and be aggressive (with good reason). So this drop has absolutely nothing to do with his teammates playing better.

It has to do with him having games where he shoots 10 shots. He's still playing very efficient.. he's just not shooting as much as he should/usually does.

You're joking right? They played most of their games with Rose, Bogans, Deng, Gibson, and Kurt Thomas starting, And Boozer in half of the games. They were terrible offensively last year. :facepalm

Compared to the years before that having Ben Gordon, Deng, John Salmons, Brad Miller, Drew Gooden, Kirk Hinrich, larry Hughes, Nocioni, Tyrus Thomas and probably more I'm forgetting.

This isn't even worth arguing anymore lol. Done with this joke thread.

[brahmabull117]

For the people here talking about Iverson's scoring talent just don't understand the real meaning of being a basketball player


It's about being an EFFECTIVE offensive player - how many points does your team score as a result of you dominating the ball?? Look at those 76ers teams in their prime - they were terrible offensive teams


the bulls last year were an average offensive team despite having almost no offensive talent around him outside of deng (some nights it was rose/bogans/deng/gibson/thomas - there is literally 1 decent offensive player there outside of rose)



You replace Rose with Iverson and the bulls would have won maybe 48-54 games because of their great defense, but they would have likely had one of the worst offenses in the league

[Pointguard]

:facepalm . If he went from taking 25 shots down to 20... yet increasing his scoring to 33... you honestly think it was his shot selection miraculously changing and not defenses? No dude... it was the defense. A smaller player like him.... is going to be affected greatly by hand checking. It means he can't go anywhere.

Hand checking works on weaker, unathletic, post players. It rarely works on stronger, athletic, players - Jordan, Barkley, Malone, Magic. Rose is still among the strongest, athletic PG's. Hand checking occured when the bodies were close and in the post. But a stronger, quicker player always spinned off fo the defender. Back in their day a lot of players had post games and hand checking was common place. Now, you don't see much back to the basket games tho you are right, post games should flourish. Odd in that the don't.

Not only that, but when would you imagine hand checking Rose? You can't be handchecking him if the ball is infront of the defender or after Rose is on his side. Rose beat players off the dribble with quick efficient moves. When you see Rose live he seems wickedly quick and he doubles up on the move so that it totally destabalizes the first offender.

[nbacardDOTnet]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Allen%20Iverson/VS/Michael%20Jordan/iversonjordanvz1-1.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/96-01%20The%20Answer/iversonrookierecord.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Allen%20Iverson/VS/Tyrone%20Lue/eea211ad.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Allen%20Iverson/VS/Whole%20Team/1238cc0a.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/0bdac622.jpg


/thread

[Bigsmoke]

cant decide.

Iverson maybe better but Rose dont go on TV hating pratice and shit.

[rodman91]

Iverson, easily.

[KrizMiz]

easy - A.I.

i like rose too, but my choise goes with AI