Derrick Rose vs. Kyrie Irving (First 11 Games of Their Careers)

[Meticode]

I am in no way trying to say Irving will be as good as Rose or better, I'm just making this comparison as a measuring stick...and I can dream right?

Take into consideration that when Rose came into the league and started his first professional game he had just turned 20 years old. He also had a successful first season at Memphis and almost won a championship there.

Irving started his first game at 19 and won't be 20 until late March. Also he played a total of 11 games at the college level.

Rose (11 games over 21 days) Bulls Record: 5-6

MPG: 38.1
FG%: 48%
3P%: 38%
FT%: 85%
RPG: 4.8
APG: 5.9
SPG: 1.1
TPG: 2.5
PPG: 19.5

Irving (11 games over 19 days) Cavaliers Record: 5-6

MPG: 27.1
FG%: 48%
3P%: 38%
FT%: 90%
RPG: 3.0
APG: 4.8
SPG: 0.6
TPG: 3.8
PPG 17.0

[noob cake]

The scariest part is that Irving is not even a scoring PG. He is a pure PG in the mold of CP3.

[Rekindled]

The scariest part is that Irving is not even a scoring PG. He is a pure PG in the mold of CP3.

yeah but right now his teammates suck , he has like no one to pass to. I mean antawn jamison is your best option :facepalm

[Meticode]

yeah but right now his teammates suck , he has like no one to pass to. I mean antawn jamison is your best option :facepalm
This is pretty much spot on. He's required to score more than he would if we had a legit first option player. I suspect that's part of the reason he's turning the ball over so much compared to his assist numbers.

[Zenji]

I am in no way trying to say Irving will be as good as Rose or better, I'm just making this comparison as a measuring stick...and I can dream right?

Take into consideration that when Rose came into the league and started his first professional game he had just turned 20 years old. He also had a successful first season at Memphis and almost won a championship there.

Irving started his first game at 19 and won't be 20 until late March. Also he played a total of 11 games at the college level.

Rose (11 games over 21 days) Bulls Record: 5-6

MPG: 38.1
FG%: 48%
3P%: 38%
FT%: 85%
RPG: 4.8
APG: 5.9
SPG: 1.1
TPG: 2.5
PPG: 19.5

Irving (11 games over 19 days) Cavaliers Record: 5-6

MPG: 27.1
FG%: 48%
3P%: 38%
FT%: 90%
RPG: 3.0
APG: 4.8
SPG: 0.6
TPG: 3.8
PPG 17.0

:milton

[chairman]

I am in no way trying to say Irving will be as good as Rose or better, I'm just making this comparison as a measuring stick...and I can dream right?

Take into consideration that when Rose came into the league and started his first professional game he had just turned 20 years old. He also had a successful first season at Memphis and almost won a championship there.

Irving started his first game at 19 and won't be 20 until late March. Also he played a total of 11 games at the college level.

Rose (11 games over 21 days) Bulls Record: 5-6

MPG: 38.1
FG%: 48%
3P%: 38%
FT%: 85%
RPG: 4.8
APG: 5.9
SPG: 1.1
TPG: 2.5
PPG: 19.5

Irving (11 games over 19 days) Cavaliers Record: 5-6

MPG: 27.1
FG%: 48%
3P%: 38%
FT%: 90%
RPG: 3.0
APG: 4.8
SPG: 0.6
TPG: 3.8
PPG 17.0

Rose was a better rookie and it's not even close

[Myth]

The turnovers and the minutes stood out the most to me.

Anyway, predicting based on the first 11 games is pretty pointless. I say the biggest thing somebody could look at is the adjustments made between rookie year and end of 3rd year/start of 4th year. Learning curve is easily the most important part of becoming successful in the NBA, not the starting point.

[RedBlackAttack]

Rose was a better rookie and it's not even close
He is only 11 games into his career. :oldlol:

Are you saying that Rose was better over his first 11 games? That would make at least a little sense (although not necessarily true).

Personally, I'm hoping that Kyrie becomes more of a playmaking PG and less like Rose in terms of scoring.

As for the rest of my thoughts on this comparison, I'll just post what I said in the other discussion about this...

While they are both natural scorers, they go about it in completely different ways. Rose uses his large frame to bully smaller PGs and, along with his quickness, he can get to the cup virtually whenever he wants unless the defense loads up on him... And, even then he can do it.

Kyrie's game is based more on a smooth playing style, ball handling skills and sliding through a defense as opposed to being physically dominant. I actually think Isiah Thomas really is a more appropriate comparison, just in playing style alone.

Also, I don't think there is any question that Kyrie has a much better shot than Rose. When Rose came into the league, he was pretty damned raw as a jumpshooter. Kyrie's mechanics are incredibly good for a rookie, as is his balance on that jumper. Also, he was a 95-percent free throw shooter in college and approaching 90-percent from the line in the NBA. That alone tells you something.

I think he will remain around 40-percent from behind the arc over the course of his career.

So, I don't think Kyrie is the physical specimen that Derrick Rose is and I don't think he ever will be. His game is based more on skill than athleticism and physicality.

I would also like to think that Kyrie is going to eventually become more of a playmaker than a scorer when the Cavs start accumulating young talent at the SG and SF spots. Right now, he is almost forced to look for his own shot due to the lack of offense on our roster.

[Cali Syndicate]

Not sure if he can compare to developing like Rose but Irving's got game. That much I know.

[Meticode]

Rose was a better rookie and it's not even close
That's not the point of the thread, but thanks for your opinion. If you read my whole post I put it as a measuring stick for Irving because I hold Rose in high regard. Although if you compare their numbers side-by-side their first 11 games per 36 minutes, they're pretty much dead on except the fact Irving turns the ball over quite a bit more.

[Meticode]

The turnovers and the minutes stood out the most to me.

Anyway, predicting based on the first 11 games is pretty pointless. I say the biggest thing somebody could look at is the adjustments made between rookie year and end of 3rd year/start of 4th year. Learning curve is easily the most important part of becoming successful in the NBA, not the starting point.
No one is predicting anything. It's to show you how both players did their first 11 games of their careers that play the same position. That's about it.

[RedBlackAttack]

That's not the point of the thread, but thanks for your opinion. If you read my whole post I put it as a measuring stick for Irving because I hold Rose in high regard. Although if you compare their numbers side-by-side their first 11 games per 36 minutes, they're pretty much dead on except the fact Irving turns the ball over quite a bit more.
And the fact that he is nearly matching him on points, assists and rebounds on considerably less minutes per game.

[Meticode]

And the fact that he is nearly matching him on points, assists and rebounds on considerably less minutes per game.
Per 36 minutes I think they're dead on, I hadn't looked it up or calculated, but Irving would have like maybe 1 more point per game or something like that. but the assists and rebounds would be pretty much exactly the same.

[Cali Syndicate]

Per 36 minutes I think they're dead on, I hadn't looked it up or calculated, but Irving would have like maybe 1 more point per game or something like that. but the assists and rebounds would be pretty much exactly the same.

Per 36, he's just as good or better all across the board but his turnovers almost double what Rose had at 4.5 per.

I gots to keep an eye on this kid. Maybe I'll get tickets to see him when comes into town to play against Curry.

[Myth]

No one is predicting anything. It's to show you how both players did their first 11 games of their careers that play the same position. That's about it.

Well, you can certainly see where I'm coming from though, right? How many times on ISH have you seen people compare young players to stars when they were young just to make a case for how good they think they'll be. Those comparisons never seem to turn out the way people predict.

[Qwertyazerty]

I remember OJ Mayo being great for half of his first season. Also Jennings had a good start. Irving looks awesome but can't be compared with Rose after 11 games. Would be great if he developes into such an impact player though.

[GOBB]

The scariest part is that Irving is not even a scoring PG. He is a pure PG in the mold of CP3.

If you want that to be true you better tell Irving to start LOOKING the part because he has looked to score first more than set teammates up.

[FlawlessVictory]

Looks very good so far... the Cavs could really do with bombing again this season and getting a high pick in next years draft. Maybe look to move a few players at the deadline to get another 1st round pick as well.

2-3 years from now, you can easily envisage the Cavs being a half decent playoff team again.

[nathanjizzle]

kyrie is the best pg drafted since rose. >>curry wall jennings and who ever else.

[Celtics4ever]

Rookie year is not a really good measuring stick. It's what they do and adjust to their sophomore year. A lot of rookies get figured out their sophomore year by opposing defenses after watching films of them before the games. That's why a lot of them hit the "wall" because teams figure out what the player has the ability to do and they adjust to it. And it's up to the player to keep improving their games throughout their careers. Guys like Kobe, Wade, Rose etc. are still good because they keep expanding their games every year. Then there are guys like Tyreke Evans, Brandon Jennings, Vince Carter, Tmac, CP3 that have 1-2 good seasons and then they fall off. It's all about putting the hard work in and getting more better as you get older.

[Fatal9]

Kyrie is/will be clearly the better rookie. 2nd year Rose vs. rookie Kyrie will be a better debate.

[Eric Cartman]

Rookie year is not a really good measuring stick. It's what they do and adjust to their sophomore year. A lot of rookies get figured out their sophomore year by opposing defenses after watching films of them before the games. That's why a lot of them hit the "wall" because teams figure out what the player has the ability to do and they adjust to it. And it's up to the player to keep improving their games throughout their careers. Guys like Kobe, Wade, Rose etc. are still good because they keep expanding their games every year. Then there are guys like Tyreke Evans, Brandon Jennings, Vince Carter, Tmac, CP3 that have 1-2 good seasons and then they fall off. It's all about putting the hard work in and getting more better as you get older.


These were great players for more than "1-2" seasons? U serious???

No one could stop T-Mac it was all the dick injuries.

[demons2005]

These were great players for more than "1-2" seasons? U serious???

No one could stop T-Mac it was all the dick injuries.
why is the bar for "great" set so much lower for CP than any other player the guy averaged 15/9 last year and people still considered him a great lol. I guess if you play in a small market noone pays attention to your precipitous decline

[Glide2keva]

It was inevitable.

People are just latching on to anyone to try and detrone Rose. :facepalm

[DMV2]

It was inevitable.

People are just latching on to anyone to try and detrone Rose. :facepalm
There's a lot of anti-Rose threads here but this one is far far from that. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I've only seen one game from Irving when the Cavs were in Utah a few days ago. He was great and even led his team to a comeback lead in the 4th but eventually loss in the end though.

I looked into his gamelog and so far he's only had two bad games, both were against the Raptors of all teams. He does need to cut down on his TO's. Career-wise, I don't see him reaching Rose's MVP level but he can still be a Top 3 PG caliber in the future.

And the way the East is, his Cavs could make the playoffs as #8 (Cavs' current standing right now) by seasons-end.

[Celtics4ever]

It was inevitable.

People are just latching on to anyone to try and detrone Rose. :facepalm

Not this thread. If the Celtics drafted a new PG rookie, I would have compared numbers too.

[Celtics4ever]

why is the bar for "great" set so much lower for CP than any other player the guy averaged 15/9 last year and people still considered him a great lol. I guess if you play in a small market noone pays attention to your precipitous decline

People liked to and always did overrate him as a player and underrated his team.
He averaged only 15/9, missed some games, and his team made the playoffs. So obviously he had a good team. They played great defense, had some shooters, inside scoring etc.

[Go Getter]

It was inevitable.

People are just latching on to anyone to try and detrone Rose. :facepalm
It seems like that.

First it was OJ Mayo, Curry, RW, and Rondo.
Then CP3, D Will, and Nash.
Now it's going to be Rubio and Kyrie.

[chips93]

And the way the East is, his Cavs could make the playoffs as #8 (Cavs' current standing right now) by seasons-end.

thats the laat thing we want. varejao and jamison are only going to get worse. so even if we somehow maintained this success, the team as a whole wouldnt be much better next year, because pivotal vets would only get worse.

we need another nice high pick. this draft is stacked, and if we could get a third quality young player to build around we could be set for the future.

[Lebron23]

I don't know if Irving is going to win an MVP Award, but he's been the best rookie so far this season.

That's a pretty impressive numbers for a 19 yrs.old Rookie.

[Millennium X]

John Wall was beasting through the first 2 weeks of his rookie season. There was all these Rose/Paul/Deron comparisons and now he's a total bust.

Tyreke Evans went nuts his rookie year then regressed and regressed.

Point is Kyrie is having a good start but he'll never be on Rose's level, or Paul/Deron.

[Lebron23]

John Wall was beasting through the first 2 weeks of his rookie season. There was all these Rose/Paul/Deron comparisons and now he's a total bust.

Tyreke Evans went nuts his rookie year then regressed and regressed.

Point is Kyrie is having a good start but he'll never be on Rose's level, or Paul/Deron.


Thank you for predicting the future.

[DMV2]

thats the laat thing we want. varejao and jamison are only going to get worse. so even if we somehow maintained this success, the team as a whole wouldnt be much better next year, because pivotal vets would only get worse.

we need another nice high pick. this draft is stacked, and if we could get a third quality young player to build around we could be set for the future.
Point taken. I wasn't think from that aspect.

Thompson is looking good too in his limited minutes.

[IGOTGAME]

Kyrie is/will be clearly the better rookie. 2nd year Rose vs. rookie Kyrie will be a better debate.

I really think we are being a little generous with Kyrie to assume that he will be comparable to 2nd year Rose. Are we just gonna project MVP 3rd year too?

Guy looks good but he is looking like his instincts are to score. People are overstating this, "he is a pure pg being forced to score," that is his instinct. He is a good passer but he is best scoring. He seems more than comfortable right now shooting 17-18 shots per 36. If he is going to continue being a scorer than he will never be on Derrick Rose's level. Most likely he will never be on Rose's level because he is on an truly elite level for a pg.

edit: are people not realizing that he is isn't even looking for teammates a lot of the time he is on the floor. He def has shown the nuance in his passing game some of the other great passers have shown as a rookie.

Hearing so much disrespect towards some of the greatest pgs ever right now.

[The_Yearning]

And the fact that he is nearly matching him on points, assists and rebounds on considerably less minutes per game.

Buddy, Irving has the green light. Rose had to share the ball with the infamous BG and Hinirch.

[GOBB]

It was inevitable.

People are just latching on to anyone to try and detrone Rose. :facepalm

More proof how some of he bulls fans here are annoying. It was cool for Rose to be compared to previous great players when he first broke on the scene but it's blasphemy for someone to put their rookie PG vs arguably the leagues best PG. check your insecurity levels. They appear low. Threatened much? Did you even read the thread where in the OP he said he wasn't trying to do what you claim?

I know bulls fans are just happy so they reply like this. :rolleyes:

Where is 97bulls at to read this crap?

[Go Getter]

I don't mind as long as the comparison is realistic.

After 11 games no one knows.

GOBB: Rematch?

[GOBB]

When I get done grocery shopping I'll hop on for that rematch.

[Pointguard]

I too recall Wall coming out like a straight beast. Kyrie seems like the real deal to me, but more in the Deron Williams, CP3 Mode. Meticode, who do you see Kyrie being most like?

To me Westbrook is most like Rose, and Wall could belong to this group as well. I have Rondo, DWill, Rubio, CP3 in another group. Kyrie could also belong to either group in the future as he could be the best scorer on his team. While I think the young talent is great, I can't really tell you that it seems stable. Outside of Rose, you can't expect very good games 90% of the time from the rest anymore. Kyrie seems like he will be the most stable. Rubio could be second? Despite me thinking that Wall could lead the league in steals, assist and fast break points moreso than the rest. DWill might not be as stable as I once thought he was in Utah.

[nathanjizzle]

More proof how some of he bulls fans here are annoying. It was cool for Rose to be compared to previous great players when he first broke on the scene but it's blasphemy for someone to put their rookie PG vs arguably the leagues best PG. check your insecurity levels. They appear low. Threatened much? Did you even read the thread where in the OP he said he wasn't trying to do what you claim?

I know bulls fans are just happy so they reply like this. :rolleyes:

Where is 97bulls at to read this crap?

did rose not prove that he is great enough to be compared to the best (so bulls fans were right)? and has kyrie irving proved his worth after 11 games.....i could careless if you compare your rookie to rose...but why would you flat out just attack bulls fans in a whole...if you see my reply, i gave kyrie great credit and im a bulls fan.

[nathanjizzle]

also dont act like most of you guys are able to judge who had a better rookie season. most of ish didnt even know who rose was untill his 2nd and 3rd season.

I bet you guys didnt even know rose led the bulls back against the dallas mavericks from a 20 point defecit in the preseason of his rookie year with 35 points and the game winning bucket...

[GOBB]

did rose not prove that he is great enough to be compared to the best (so bulls fans were right)?

Rose was being compared to established, proven, great players before he played 1 game and throughout his rookie season. Stop acting like people never compared the guy until he won MVP.

Read the thread, the OP said he wasnt comparing Irving to say he would be better or even as good. He used Rose as a measuring stick, a bar. If anything Bulls fans should see that Rose is being complimented in that some fans view him as the bar for PGs to reach. He's a lowly Cavs fan who watched Bron chuck the dueces and Irving is their franchise face. So he is wondering how good this kid can be and what to make of his early start so far. Nothing more nothing less.

Your fellow Bulls fan is acting like this thread was designed to dethrone Rose. He's a moron. Thats been proven. You're a moron as well. Thats been proven as well. Both of you clowns are annoying and happen to be Bulls fans. Go figure.


also dont act like most of you guys are able to judge who had a better rookie season. most of ish didnt even know who rose was untill his 2nd and 3rd season.

I bet you guys didnt even know rose led the bulls back against the dallas mavericks from a 20 point defecit in the preseason of his rookie year with 35 points and the game winning bucket...

Derrick Rose was known since high school. Many were aware of Rose because he had generated enough hype to be noticed. He went to Memphis. A major college bball powehouse backed by one of college basketballs notable faces in Slimepari. So yea most of ISH didnt know about Rose until his 2nd and 3rd season. Are you serious kid? More proof why some Bulls fans are annoying. And more annoying than any other fanbase this season. Keep giving me ammo.

[IGOTGAME]

Derrick Rose was known since high school. Many were aware of Rose because he had generated enough hype to be noticed. He was apart of a great recruiting class at Kentucky. A major college bball powehouse backed by one of college basketballs notable faces in Slimepari. So yea most of ISH didnt know about Rose until his 2nd and 3rd season. Are you serious kid? More proof why some Bulls fans are annoying. And more annoying than any other fanbase this season. Keep giving me ammo.

maybe get his college right? yea, that would be nice.

[GOBB]

maybe get his college right? yea, that would be nice.

Or you couldve just fixed it for me.

[ballinhun8]

More proof how some of he bulls fans here are annoying. It was cool for Rose to be compared to previous great players when he first broke on the scene but it's blasphemy for someone to put their rookie PG vs arguably the leagues best PG. check your insecurity levels. They appear low. Threatened much? Did you even read the thread where in the OP he said he wasn't trying to do what you claim?

I know bulls fans are just happy so they reply like this. :rolleyes:

Where is 97bulls at to read this crap?


This is kind of true. Some of my fellow Bulls bretheren are very defensive when it comes to Rose. True, non-troll fans know how good he is. The people who have a clear agenda are the ones you know are trolls.


I've never seen Irving play except a couple Duke games so I can't speak for him. The only difference they had is Rose played superb in College, went to the Title game and lost it but he was a very influential player and the top pick in a stacked draft. Kyrie was hyped but was lost for the season but still drafted #1 thanks to his rep.


I hope he turns out as a good player (obviously not as good as Rose cuz he's in our division) and when the Bulls play the Cavs I'll make sure to check him out. I don't think the Cavs have any national games so I don't think I'll be able to see him any other time except when the C's play him...

[nathanjizzle]

Rose was being compared to established, proven, great players before he played 1 game and throughout his rookie season. Stop acting like people never compared the guy until he won MVP.

Read the thread, the OP said he wasnt comparing Irving to say he would be better or even as good. He used Rose as a measuring stick, a bar. If anything Bulls fans should see that Rose is being complimented in that some fans view him as the bar for PGs to reach. He's a lowly Cavs fan who watched Bron chuck the dueces and Irving is their franchise face. So he is wondering how good this kid can be and what to make of his early start so far. Nothing more nothing less.

Your fellow Bulls fan is acting like this thread was designed to dethrone Rose. He's a moron. Thats been proven. You're a moron as well. Thats been proven as well. Both of you clowns are annoying and happen to be Bulls fans. Go figure.



Derrick Rose was known since high school. Many were aware of Rose because he had generated enough hype to be noticed. He went to Memphis. A major college bball powehouse backed by one of college basketballs notable faces in Slimepari. So yea most of ISH didnt know about Rose until his 2nd and 3rd season. Are you serious kid? More proof why some Bulls fans are annoying. And more annoying than any other fanbase this season. Keep giving me ammo.

HAHAHAHAHA... rose was being compared too great proven players before he even played one game? i think you mistaken him for john wall. rose was an underrated #1 pick where people were saying beasley was better then him and he was going to flop. No one was saying that shit your just pulling shit out your ass..you know how i would know people were undderrating rose? because ive been following him since he was a junior at simeon.

i didnt take the thread in a bad way...i took it as exactly how you explained it as a compliment to rose as to why people would want ot compare there point gaurd to him.

Yes people literrally know who "derrick rose" was you didnt need to tell me his life story like that proved anything. what i was really saying is people didnt know his game and how great he was. Nobody noticed him untill his 2nd year and 3rd year. did you watch rookiie year derrick rose? i doubt you watched more then 3 games and soo has 95 percent of ish. So as i was saying....no one here could compare rookie rose to kyrie since they havent even watched rose in his rookie season nor notice him.

and do you just post garbage all day? sounds like your pmsing badly this month...."give me some more ammo"...stfu girl. Ive noticed Philly people like to talk out there ass.

[nathanjizzle]

"give me some more ammo, because i think im sonning people":lol

-philly people.

ohyea..and holy shit how much of a bandwagon hoe can you be? you have a melo avatar...your from "illadelphia" you watch bulls, miami and clippers games, and your favorite players are wade and rose and griffin. What a band wagon hoe. "GIVE ME SOME MORE AMMO"

[GOBB]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93325

But no one here knew who Derrick Rose was. And and and no one compared Derrick Rose before he dribbled a ball to a proven player already. :rolleyes:


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141812

But but but no one even knew about Rose until his 2nd or 3rd year.

I could keep going but noticing your stupidity, numerous red boxes? I'll stop.

[Kblaze8855]

A few just before preseason quotes from a topic I made on Rose in 08.


Tony Parker is a better ball handler and pick and roll player than Derrick Rose is. The idea that Rose will be beating guys off the dribble all game is a pipe dream.


derrick rose's jumpshot < Rajon Rondo's

basically, the best possible scenario for this kid is rajon rondo. not that there is anything wrong with that, just that #1 pick is not warranted for his talent


Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Best case Rondo? Eh. I somehow doubt Rose is losing a jumper contest to a child as I believe Rondo did(to Doc Rivers kid wasnt it?).


You have a lot more faith in Rose then I do. There are plenty of 13 year kids that can outshoot both players. If you can shoot at 17 you can shoot at 13. A good shooter even at 13 would out shoot both.


lKO....ets say you come out of a coma 4 years from now and Rose is a 26/9 player. You have not seen him play a game in the NBA. what would be your first assumption(Jumper aside) about what he added to his game?


Response:




Quote: that's i'm mistakingly reading beasley's stat line


Not that its related to this. I just like to read it now and then.

[GOBB]

:oldlol: Rondo losing a jump shot contest to Austin Rivers when he was 13.

[RedBlackAttack]

Buddy, Irving has the green light. Rose had to share the ball with the infamous BG and Hinirch.
Buddy, Rose averaged 14 shots per game over the course of his rookie season. Kyrie is averaging 14 shots per game over his first 11 games (after rounding up).

See, there are ways to check these things.

[Kblaze8855]

I dont think taking the same number of shots in 10 less minutes makes the point you were intending.

[RedBlackAttack]

I dont think taking the same number of shots in 10 less minutes makes the point you were intending.
It is really beside the point, because Irving would also average more points than Rose if you averaged out his minutes to match Rose's minutes under his current production.

I'm just noting that for having to share the ball with two chuckers, their shots per game a pretty damned comparable.

In truth, I don't even know why we are comparing these two players, because their respective games are nothing alike, regardless of how comparable their stats may be.

[Glide2keva]

It seems like that.

First it was OJ Mayo, Curry, RW, and Rondo.
Then CP3, D Will, and Nash.
Now it's going to be Rubio and Kyrie.
This is what i was saying. Every new hot shot flash in the pan PG that comes along or has gotten long in the tooth, people want to prop up and act like they are better than Rose. Rose is far from perfect, but he's the top PG now and for theforeseeable future, get used to it.

[chips93]

This is what i was saying. Every new hot shot flash in the pan PG that comes along or has gotten long in the tooth, people want to prop up and act like they are better than Rose. Rose is far from perfect, but he's the top PG now and for the foreseeable future, get used to it.

nobody has done this, at least not with irving.

[Glide2keva]

Buddy, Irving has the green light. Rose had to share the ball with the infamous BG and Hinirch.You know that's no excuse. People tend to forget that Rose was reluctant to be the main scorer and preferred to defer to the vets in his rookie and midway through his second year.

They look at his third year and forget the first two and the circumstances to them. Then when we Bulls fans that actually watched those games and seasons, point these things out, people act like we are lying.

I swear.

[Glide2keva]

nobody has done this, at least not with irving.
It's coming, trust me.

[Glide2keva]

It's coming, trust me.
Oh look, GOBB is in yet another Bulls related thread, bashing Bulls fans like he's God or something.

[GOBB]

nobody has done this, at least not with irving.

He's too stupid to realize that. Also he doesnt acknowledge Rose was some hot shot PG who was compared to great players who proved themselves. Go figure.

[GOBB]

It's coming, trust me.

How is it coming when you jumped in this thread claiming the OP did that? :oldlol:

READ the first couple lines in his post. I bash clowns like you because you deserve to be bashed. You deserve to be made to feel incredibly stupid. How does it feel reading the first couple lines of the OPs post? Now you're going to change the subject and argue something else that wasnt said. Then when someone pulls your coat "Thats not the case here"...you go "Well in 2017 it will be. Just wait." Huh?

[GOBB]

I am in no way trying to say Irving will be as good as Rose or better, I'm just making this comparison as a measuring stick...and I can dream right?

READ.

OMG OMG, mama!! Someone is trying to dethrone Rose!!!!!!! Look ma, his name is Meticode!!!

[Jailblazers7]

What is the point of this comparison exactly? A sample size of 11 games is pretty much worthless. I get Cavs fans are excited by Irving's start but we could at least wait til he plays 30-40 games before we start comparing numbers.

Brandon Jennings' first 11 games of his career:

34.5 MPG
25.2 PPG
5.5 APG
4.4 RPG
46.8 FG%
49.1 3FG%
3.5 TO

^those are impressive numbers but in the end they don't really mean anything

[Meticode]

Kyrie is/will be clearly the better rookie. 2nd year Rose vs. rookie Kyrie will be a better debate.
That's a good observation, but the thread wasn't to say who had the better beginning of the career. The title can be mis-leading because of the "vs" I put in there. As I said, it's to better gauge possibly how good Irving will be since before he was drafted he played a total of 11 college games. Don't take my word for it, but he's the closest thing to being out of a high school as far as I know since LeBron possibly? I'm not sure on this, but only 11 college games under his belt.

[Meticode]

What is the point of this comparison exactly? A sample size of 11 games is pretty much worthless. I get Cavs fans are excited by Irving's start but we could at least wait til he plays 30-40 games before we start comparing numbers.

Brandon Jennings' first 11 games of his career:

34.5 MPG
25.2 PPG
5.5 APG
4.4 RPG
46.8 FG%
49.1 3FG%
3.5 TO

^those are impressive numbers but in the end they don't really mean anything
It gauging Irving's talent. Again, the man has played a total of 11 games in college. No one knew what to expect of him really. Some people thought he would do horrible because it was unknown how well he'd play in college if he playe4d a full healthy year, other people felt he was a Mike Conley type of guard other people feel he'll be a multiple all-star. Truth of the matter is no one really knows what they expected from Irving once he came into the league. So as i said, it's just a measuring stick in trying to gauge him.

The Jennings stats you posted are skewed by his 50 point game. And partially by the fact he's a chucking point guard. In that first month he had a ton of good games because his shot was falling, I felt he wouldn't keep this up for long and eventually that rang true with him shooting under 40% for the season. You could see this coming a mile away because Jennings didn't show he could get to the basket with his small frame, Irving has. Irving has shown more of a consistency in his game through-out his first 11 games then Jennings ever has in his career because he's not solely dependent on his jump-shot to have a good game.

[Meticode]

It was inevitable.

People are just latching on to anyone to try and detrone Rose. :facepalm
Did you fully read my original post? I'm not trying to say Irving is better than rose at this point in their small careers or that Irving will be better or anything like that. It's a gauge for Irving compared to arguably the best point guard in the league since we have such a small sample size of when he was in college.

[chairman]

Did you fully read my original post? I'm not trying to say Irving is better than rose at this point in their small careers or that Irving will be better or anything like that. It's a gauge for Irving compared to arguably the best point guard in the league since we have such a small sample size of when he was in college.
11games doesn't mean anything, first this is a locked out season. A lot of point gaurds are doing well because they simply kept themselves in shape. Second this is on 11 games it took rose 3-4 years to become what he is now. Just cause he puts up similar number doesn't mean their work ethic is the same

[chairman]

Also with all that said irving will never become a superstar on Cleveland. Cleaveland is screwed for the next 10 years unroll they get another Lebron not a pg. Rubio>Irving right now anyways

[Meticode]

chairmain,

Thanks for your opinion. I appreciate your input.

[chairman]

chairmain,

Thanks for your opinion. I appreciate your input.
I appreciate your appreciation

[Jailblazers7]

It gauging Irving's talent. Again, the man has played a total of 11 games in college. No one knew what to expect of him really. Some people thought he would do horrible because it was unknown how well he'd play in college if he playe4d a full healthy year, other people felt he was a Mike Conley type of guard other people feel he'll be a multiple all-star. Truth of the matter is no one really knows what they expected from Irving once he came into the league. So as i said, it's just a measuring stick in trying to gauge him.

The Jennings stats you posted are skewed by his 50 point game. And partially by the fact he's a chucking point guard. In that first month he had a ton of good games because his shot was falling, I felt he wouldn't keep this up for long and eventually that rang true with him shooting under 40% for the season. You could see this coming a mile away because Jennings didn't show he could get to the basket with his small frame, Irving has. Irving has shown more of a consistency in his game through-out his first 11 games then Jennings ever has in his career because he's not solely dependent on his jump-shot to have a good game.

The point is that an 11 game sample size is too small to begin to really judge his talent at the NBA level. Its a great start but there are a lot of guys capable of putting up numbers like that in an 11 game stretch. I big question mark on Irving was his durability too because he only played 11 games in college and we have yet to see if his body will last throughout an entire season. I don't mind discussion about Irving's play but I just don't think the stats are worth much until we see how he plays over an extended period of at least 25-30 games, which is why I show Jennings as an example of how an 11 game sample size can be worthless.

[chairman]

The point is that an 11 game sample size is too small to begin to really judge his talent at the NBA level. Its a great start but there are a lot of guys capable of putting up numbers like that in an 11 game stretch. I big question mark on Irving was his durability too because he only played 11 games in college and we have yet to see if his body will last throughout an entire season. I don't mind discussion about Irving's play but I just don't think the stats are worth much until we see how he plays over an extended period of at least 25-30 games, which is why I show Jennings as an example of how an 11 game sample size can be worthless.
Plus who wants to play for Cleveland? Cleveland is as bad as Detroit team and city wise

[Meticode]

The point is that an 11 game sample size is too small to begin to really judge his talent at the NBA level. Its a great start but there are a lot of guys capable of putting up numbers like that in an 11 game stretch. I big question mark on Irving was his durability too because he only played 11 games in college and we have yet to see if his body will last throughout an entire season. I don't mind discussion about Irving's play but I just don't think the stats are worth much until we see how he plays over an extended period of at least 25-30 games, which is why I show Jennings as an example of how an 11 game sample size can be worthless.
I disagree. I feel it shows how good he can be because he's actually officially played 11 NBA games. Will he turn out as good or better than his numbers show? Who the hell knows? Again, just a measuring stick and a small one I agree.

[Meticode]

Plus who wants to play for Cleveland? Cleveland is as bad as Detroit team and city wise
Depends on if they can become competitive I think. So you think Irving bolting the first chance he gets?

[chairman]

Depends on if they can become competitive I think. So you think Irving bolting the first chance he gets?
Look at Chris Paul one of the greatest pgs but with no team he couldn't win anything. Do you really think the owner is going to put pieces around Irving if he couldn't do that for Lebron? Irving needs a team....but that's if Irving becomes great, not really anything to get excited for in Irving. You guys need Lebron, Durant, Wade, Kobe type players. Look at monta Ellis and stephon curry theyre great players but they will never win on golden state

[noob cake]

What is the point of this comparison exactly? A sample size of 11 games is pretty much worthless. I get Cavs fans are excited by Irving's start but we could at least wait til he plays 30-40 games before we start comparing numbers.

Brandon Jennings' first 11 games of his career:

34.5 MPG
25.2 PPG
5.5 APG
4.4 RPG
46.8 FG%
49.1 3FG%
3.5 TO

^those are impressive numbers but in the end they don't really mean anything

Jennings was chucking out of control and making all of them.

Irving has shown an incredible offensive arsenal, not entirely focused on shooting jumpers.

[GOBB]

Jennings was chucking out of control and making all of them.

Irving has shown an incredible offensive arsenal, not entirely focused on shooting jumpers.

He avg 19.5 FGA, which included the 34 FGA game where he scored 55pts. Outside of that game he avg about 16-17 shots per game. I dont consider this chucking out of control especially since he was the offense in Milw. Similar to Kyrie Irving in Cleveland no?

Bogut, Charlie Bell, Carlos Delfino, Hakim Warrick were your startes for the most part.

[Jailblazers7]

He avg 19.5 FGA, which included the 34 FGA game where he scored 55pts. Outside of that game he avg about 16-17 shots per game. I dont consider this chucking out of control especially since he was the offense in Milw. Similar to Kyrie Irving in Cleveland no?

Bogut, Charlie Bell, Carlos Delfino, Hakim Warrick were your startes for the most part.

Jennings was also playing around 7 more minutes per game which helps account for the extra shots. Not that I don't disagree with Jennings having the tendancy to throw up bad shots. The only reason I listed Jennings stat line is to show how an 11 game stretch can have absolutely no significance in predicting the course of a career or even a season.

But still I'm glad to see Kyrie playing well for the Cavs. Tristan Thompson hasn't looked bad either. They could have a nice nuclues built if they get another lotto pick and can grab a scoring wing like Harrison Barnes or something.

[sosolid4u09]

so basically rose was better in every single department?

[sosolid4u09]

He avg 19.5 FGA, which included the 34 FGA game where he scored 55pts. Outside of that game he avg about 16-17 shots per game. I dont consider this chucking out of control especially since he was the offense in Milw. Similar to Kyrie Irving in Cleveland no?

Bogut, Charlie Bell, Carlos Delfino, Hakim Warrick were your startes for the most part.
he shot 37% from the field

[Meticode]

Jennings is almost completely reliant on his jumper. Irving isn't. Most of his points come from getting into the lane which he has a knack of doing.

[Meticode]

Look at Chris Paul one of the greatest pgs but with no team he couldn't win anything. Do you really think the owner is going to put pieces around Irving if he couldn't do that for Lebron? Irving needs a team....but that's if Irving becomes great, not really anything to get excited for in Irving. You guys need Lebron, Durant, Wade, Kobe type players. Look at monta Ellis and stephon curry theyre great players but they will never win on golden state
So do you feel the Cavaliers should be abolished then and shouldn't be in the NBA.

[RedBlackAttack]

11games doesn't mean anything, first this is a locked out season. A lot of point gaurds are doing well because they simply kept themselves in shape. Second this is on 11 games it took rose 3-4 years to become what he is now. Just cause he puts up similar number doesn't mean their work ethic is the same


Also with all that said irving will never become a superstar on Cleveland. Cleaveland is screwed for the next 10 years unroll they get another Lebron not a pg. Rubio>Irving right now anyways


Plus who wants to play for Cleveland? Cleveland is as bad as Detroit team and city wise


Look at Chris Paul one of the greatest pgs but with no team he couldn't win anything. Do you really think the owner is going to put pieces around Irving if he couldn't do that for Lebron? Irving needs a team....but that's if Irving becomes great, not really anything to get excited for in Irving. You guys need Lebron, Durant, Wade, Kobe type players. Look at monta Ellis and stephon curry theyre great players but they will never win on golden state
^^^This guy really knows his stuff.






















No, really.











Very intuitive. Sharp as a tack.

[cavsfanatic]

Kyries turnovers are from driving to the lane and losing the ball. He doesn't make terrible passes because all our players be wide open by the arc. When we get a good perimeter player he will average less points and more assist. Rose came in with Deng on his team