Better in the playoffs - Kevin Garnett or Dirk Nowitzki (alltime)

[Duncan21formvp]

Who was the better player in the playoffs thru there careers?

Here is an example

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=garneke01&y1=2011&p2=nowitdi01&y2=2011

[Odinn]

Nowitzki is the better playoff performer between these 2.

[StateOfMind12]

I say Dirk Nowitzki but I would like to know what would people say is the prime years of the two? I'm more interested in their prime playoff averages than their career playoff averages.

[Odinn]

I say Dirk Nowitzki but I would like to know what would people say is the prime years of the two? I'm more interested in their prime playoff averages than their career playoff averages.
Garnett from 2000-01 to 2007-08 in the playoffs(57 games);
22.6 ppg 12.9 rpg 4.2 apg 1.4 spg 1.6 bpg 2.9 tpg
.477 fg% .289 3pt% .774 ft% .483 efg%

Nowitzki from 2001-02 to 2010-11 in the playoffs(114 games);
26.1 ppg 10.6 rpg 2.7 apg 1.1 spg 1.0 bpg 2.4 tpg
.467 fg% .399 3pt% .893 ft% .496 efg%

[JellyBean]

As a KG homer, it pains me to admit this but Dirk is a better playoff performer than KG.

[Teanett]

the ghostface drillah!

[SlayerEnraged]

I think KG is better in the playoffs except Dirk last year. KG has several awesome years.

1. 18.8PPG,10.8RPG, 8.8APG
2. 24PPG,18.7RPG, 5APG
3. 27.0PPG,15.7RPG,5.2 APG
4. 24.3PPG, 14.6RPG, 5.1 APG

[StateOfMind12]

Garnett from 2000-01 to 2007-08 in the playoffs(57 games);
22.6 ppg 12.9 rpg 4.2 apg 1.4 spg 1.6 bpg 2.9 tpg
.477 fg% .289 3pt% .774 ft% .483 efg%

Nowitzki from 2001-02 to 2010-11 in the playoffs(114 games);
26.1 ppg 10.6 rpg 2.7 apg 1.1 spg 1.0 bpg 2.4 tpg
.467 fg% .399 3pt% .893 ft% .496 efg%
Do you know the minutes per game for each of those players? You would say those were the prime years right? I just wanted to make sure because sometimes people disagree with primes years of certain players.

[Odinn]

Do you know the minutes per game for each of those players? You would say those were the prime years right? I just wanted to make sure because sometimes people disagree with primes years of certain players.
Garnett 40.9 mpg
Nowitzki 41.5 mpg

[Odinn]

I think KG is better in the playoffs except Dirk last year. KG has several awesome years.

1. 18.8PPG,10.8RPG, 8.8APG - only 4 games
2. 24PPG,18.7RPG, 5APG - only 3 games and Nowitzki outplayed him in that series
3. 27.0PPG,15.7RPG,5.2 APG - only 6 games
4. 24.3PPG, 14.6RPG, 5.1 APG - Except 2008, his only notable playoff-run
Actually KG is the one who had less awesome playoff-runs.

[Harison]

Dirk almost his entire career had a great team around him and won only one ring, KG got the same the very first season he got a great team.

Dirk has one advantage - scoring, however offense doesnt end with scoring - add passing advantage KG has, and you get the same points. Then we have KG's screens to open teammates. However I still give Dirk an edge in the offense due to being more clutch.

Rebounding, blocks, steals - all KG.

The biggest difference - KG is an elite All-time great defender, and championships are won more often than not by defense. Thats why Dirk has only one ring despite great talent around him, Amare zero, Nash zero, etc.

Even when KG (or Timmy, or Dream) isnt scoring well, he can contribute on so many levels, defense/rebounding/blocks/steals/passion. When Dirk isnt scoring well, he isnt contributing much.

[Bernie Nips]

They're about even. Dirk is by far the better scorer and more valuable when you need a gamewinner, but KG has done exceptionally well with what he has had.

Dirk got bounced out of the first round of the playoffs with a 67 win first seed team against the eighth seed. So it's not like he's an all time playoff performer consistently. They've both had their ups and downs.

[kentatm]

hmm, if only they had gone head to head...

I wonder what would have happened?

[Bernie Nips]

hmm, if only they had gone head to head...

I wonder what would have happened?

You really going to judge two players for their entire careers off of 3 games?

[creepingdeath]

You really going to judge two players for their entire careers off of 3 games?
Shh, right, it's not like their postseason numbers or anything speak a clear language.

[StateOfMind12]

Garnett 40.9 mpg
Nowitzki 41.5 mpg
Thanks, and it is ridiculous how many more minutes and games Dirk has played in the playoffs than Garnett has. That being said, I think Garnett's prime actually started in '99-'00. I was more curious about Dirk's prime because I wasn't certain when it started.

KG played 61 games and a total of 2500 minutes in the playoffs during his prime years ('99-'00 to '07-'08).

Dirk played 114 games and a total of 4728 minutes in the playoffs during his prime years ('01-'02 to '10-'11).

Dirk has nearly played twice as many minutes and twice as many playoff games as Garnett has.


Anyways, I asked mainly because I wanted to compare their per 36 minutes stats. They play very similar minutes for the most part so this will be a fair assessment.

Garnett total's during his prime in the playoffs - 1361 total points, 778 rebounds, 277 assists, 94 blocks, 89 turnovers, 537 fgm, 1140 fga, 274 ftm, 353 fta, and 2500 minutes played.

Dirk total's during his prime in the playoffs- 2980 total points, 1208 rebounds, 308 assists, 110 blocks, 272 turnovers, 984 fgm, 2109 fga, 886 ftm, 992 fta, and 4728 minutes played.

Garnett's prime stats ('00-'01 to '07-'08) in the playoffs per 36 minutes: 19.6 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 4.0 apg, 1.4 bpg, 1.3 topg, 47.1% fg, 16.4 fga, 77.6% ft, 5.1 fta, 52.5% TS

Dirk's prime stats ('01-'02 to '10-'11) in the playoffs per 36 minutes: 22.7 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 2.3 apg, 0.8 bpg, 2.1 topg, 46.7% fg, 16.1 fga, 89.3% ft, 7.6 fta, 58.5% TS


Dirk stays superior in the playoffs in terms of per 36 minutes stats as well... .

[knickswin]

this is obviously dirk

[Odinn]

Thanks, and it is ridiculous how many more minutes and games Dirk has played in the playoffs than Garnett has. That being said, I think Garnett's prime actually started in '99-'00. I was more curious about Dirk's prime because I wasn't certain when it started.

KG played 61 games and a total of 2500 minutes in the playoffs during his prime years ('99-'00 to '07-'08).

Dirk played 114 games and a total of 4728 minutes in the playoffs during his prime years ('01-'02 to '10-'11).

Dirk has nearly played twice as many minutes and twice as many playoff games as Garnett has.


Anyways, I asked mainly because I wanted to compare their per 36 minutes stats. They play very similar minutes for the most part so this will be a fair assessment.

Garnett total's during his prime in the playoffs - 1361 total points, 778 rebounds, 277 assists, 94 blocks, 89 turnovers, 537 fgm, 1140 fga, 274 ftm, 353 fta, and 2500 minutes played.

Dirk total's during his prime in the playoffs- 2980 total points, 1208 rebounds, 308 assists, 110 blocks, 272 turnovers, 984 fgm, 2109 fga, 886 ftm, 992 fta, and 4728 minutes played.

Garnett's prime stats ('00-'01 to '07-'08) in the playoffs per 36 minutes: 19.6 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 4.0 apg, 1.4 bpg, 1.3 topg, 47.1% fg, 16.4 fga, 77.6% ft, 5.1 fta, 52.5% TS

Dirk's prime stats ('01-'02 to '10-'11) in the playoffs per 36 minutes: 22.7 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 2.3 apg, 0.8 bpg, 2.1 topg, 46.7% fg, 16.1 fga, 89.3% ft, 7.6 fta, 58.5% TS


Dirk stays superior in the playoffs in terms of per 36 minutes stats as well... .
:cheers: :cheers:

[DMAVS41]

While the circumstances are not equal or anything, Dirk has clearly been the better playoff performer.

I do like how people are able to have a rational conversation about the fact that KG didn't really have the same chances to show what type of player he would have been in the playoffs with a good team around him.

But it is what it is. Dirk has better numbers and more success. Hard to argue knowing that.

[DirkNowitzki07]

Dirk almost his entire career had a great team around him and won only one ring, KG got the same the very first season he got a great team.

Dirk has one advantage - scoring, however offense doesnt end with scoring - add passing advantage KG has, and you get the same points. Then we have KG's screens to open teammates. However I still give Dirk an edge in the offense due to being more clutch.

Rebounding, blocks, steals - all KG.

The biggest difference - KG is an elite All-time great defender, and championships are won more often than not by defense. Thats why Dirk has only one ring despite great talent around him, Amare zero, Nash zero, etc.

Even when KG (or Timmy, or Dream) isnt scoring well, he can contribute on so many levels, defense/rebounding/blocks/steals/passion. When Dirk isnt scoring well, he isnt contributing much.

So when Dirk isn't scoring much he isn't contributing at all huh? :roll: How about all of the defensive attention he draws and as a result his team mates get open looks? How about drawing out the other team's PF all the way out to the perimeter?

Also Dirk is one of the most passionate and loyal players to ever play the game.

KG might be the better all around player, however Dirk isn't as bad defensively as he was earlier in his career. I'd say he's an average defender and not a liability like a lot of people seem to think.

One of the reasons why the Mavs were on fire from 3pt range last year in the playoffs was because Dirk kept drawing double teams.

Dirk is the better playoff performer, KG didn't win a ring until he teamed up with 2 other future hall of famers. Dirk led his team to a championship and beat 3 future hall of fame members.

[moaz]

Dirk almost his entire career had a great team around him and won only one ring, KG got the same the very first season he got a great team.


4 words \ 24 letters:
Shawn Bradley
Erick Dampier

[brisbaneman]

4 words \ 24 letters:
Shawn Bradley
Erick Dampier

That guy has a serious anti-dirk agenda, just ignore him.

[D-Wade316]

Dirk>>>>>>>>>>>>

[DMAVS41]

Dirk almost his entire career had a great team around him and won only one ring, KG got the same the very first season he got a great team.

Dirk has one advantage - scoring, however offense doesnt end with scoring - add passing advantage KG has, and you get the same points. Then we have KG's screens to open teammates. However I still give Dirk an edge in the offense due to being more clutch.

Rebounding, blocks, steals - all KG.

The biggest difference - KG is an elite All-time great defender, and championships are won more often than not by defense. Thats why Dirk has only one ring despite great talent around him, Amare zero, Nash zero, etc.

Even when KG (or Timmy, or Dream) isnt scoring well, he can contribute on so many levels, defense/rebounding/blocks/steals/passion. When Dirk isnt scoring well, he isnt contributing much.

At no point in Dirk's entire career has he had a truly GREAT team around him like you are talking about.

His best and most talented team ever was probably either 06 or last year. Those are simply very weak title winning teams on paper looking back at NBA history.

You over-rate the absolute shit out of Dirk's help.

Take for example the 06 Mavs that won 60 games, upset the Spurs, and made the finals...have you ever really looked at that roster?

Dirk
Howard
Terry
Stackhouse
Harris
Dampier
Griffin
Diop
Van Horn

Those are the guys that played real minutes in the playoffs. That just is not a great team. And that is probably the best or 2nd best team Dirk ever had.

[RicksPlace]

Dirk and is not even close. We had a glimpse of that when they meet in the playoffs. Is not that the Mavericks won the series, they were the better team, but is how dominant Dirk looked. If Kg would've somehow contained him, then it would've been something different. But, that is not the case. Even that year, Dirk was too fast and skilled for KG. Also, longevity has to be taken in consideration. Dirk can still give you 20pts a night along with elite clutch making. On the other hand, KG has his foot out of the door. Regardless, they are both legends and two of my favorite players ever.

[Smoke117]

This is hard to say...Dirk is obviously the better scorer and that is going to reflect in the playoffs. Unless you watched both of them play a lot in the playoffs you are not going to get the full picture though. Dirk was above average defensively during his best years (by no means bad), but Kevin Garnett is elite of the elite...an all time defender and game changer defensively. You aren't going to get that just from looking at stats though.

[hiphopfan777]

Dirk is better because he won with his original . Team and never joined a superteam.

[Smoke117]

Dirk is better because he won with his original . Team and never joined a superteam.

Because Mchale didn't completely screw over the Twolves and Garnett?

[T_L_P]

I've always felt like KG didn't match his regular season defensive dominance in the Playoffs until he went to the Celtics. Add his inefficiency and tendency to shy away from big moments, and I think I'd have to give it Dirk.

The thing is, even with all that, it's still close. Just goes to show how well-rounded KG was.

[Harison]

Why necro the old thread?

Prime Playoffs numbers:

Dirk '01-11: 25.9/10.4/2.6/1.1/1.0 @ 46.3 FG% and 49.4 eFG%
KG '99-08: 22.3/12.7/4.5/1.4/1.6 @ 46.9 FG% and 47.5 eFG%

We have more scoring for Dirk, and yet when you add assists for KG, he contributes to more team points than Dirk does, and thats before we add rebounds, steals and blocks.

Care to compare All-time great defense vs average D too?

Therefore the answer is simple - those who value only scoring (or love Dirk/hate KG), will pick Dirk, the rest would choose KG, including every single GM in NBA (Cuban too :D).


I've always felt like KG didn't match his regular season defensive dominance in the Playoffs until he went to the Celtics. Add his inefficiency and tendency to shy away from big moments, and I think I'd have to give it Dirk.


KG was always dominant in D, Playoffs or not. The difference is when team is coached or not, does team have other D players or not. One guy cant do it all alone, regardless what superstar we take.

"shy away from big moments" is such a dumb myth. As Duncan's fan you shouldnt forget in their primes KG shot more in the clutch than TD, or are you implying Duncan was even more shy than KG? :D

Also look up Playoffs '08, when KG was much better closer than Ray or Pierce in the 4Q. Unless of course you'll say Ray/Pierce are bad closers, that even KG could look good in comparison :cheers:

[pastis]

dirk by miles. not even close.

[raiderfan19]

Yes kg was always such a dominant defender in the playoffs... That's why dirk torched him for 33.3 ppg the one time they matched up.

Or are you admitting that kg didn't guard the opposing teams best big,(he didn't on the wolves) because if so that might seem to mitigate some of his supposed all time great d.

[tpols]

Yes kg was always such a dominant defender in the playoffs... That's why dirk torched him for 33.3 ppg the one time they matched up.

Or are you admitting that kg didn't guard the opposing teams best big,(he didn't on the wolves) because if so that might seem to mitigate some of his supposed all time great d.

stop being silly.. when youre facing a 21/9 Steve Nash, 25/7 Michael Finley, a 33ppg Dirk and a team with 5 double digit scorers of course theyre going to have him roaming/helpiung /trapping to spread his impact over all the players.

Unfortunately when wally scerbiak, a young chauncey billups, and rasho Nesterovic are your best defenders by your side theres not much you can do to stop what was basically an offensive all star team.

[houston]

dirk of course

[Harison]

stop being silly.. when youre facing a 21/9 Steve Nash, 25/7 Michael Finley, a 33ppg Dirk and a team with 5 double digit scorers of course theyre going to have him roaming/helpiung /trapping to spread his impact over all the players.

Unfortunately when wally scerbiak, a young chauncey billups, and rasho Nesterovic are your best defenders by your side theres not much you can do to stop what was basically an offensive all star team.

Interestingly, KG in his prime was usually outscoring Dirk H2H, not even speaking about rebounds, assists, defense, etc.

However its funny how Dirk homers take 3 games sample as a definite proof of anything. Its mildly speaking not very smart. KG wasnt even defending Dirk, and you are right - KG faced stacked All-star offensive team on fire, not much one can do about that.

Following Dirk's fans logic, Baron Davis and Stephen Jackson >> Dirk, when they outplayed and handed one of the biggest upsets in NBA history to 1st seed and MVP Dirk in '07. Many funny instances can be found once one takes Dirk homers logic (or lack of it).

[raiderfan19]

Kg didn't consistently outscore dirk in his prime .

[moaz]

Harison vs. Truth Round 2
(2014 Edition)

[eklip]

Dirk's stats are better.

Garnett has a better impact on defense even if you ignore the stats (pick and roll defense, interior defense, anchoring the defense, etc.).

Dirk has a better impact on offense even if you ignore the stats (spacing, double teams leading to hockey assists, being one of the best closers and go-to guys of all-time, etc.).

I think it's pretty obvious that Dirk was the better playoff performer. The only pro Garnett argument is that he missed playoffs during his prime and didn't had the opportunity to show himself as much as Dirk in the playoffs.

If you go through some of Dirk's best series, it's hard not to pick him. Garnett wasn't efficient on offense, especially if he had to carry the offense. Dirk had so many super efficient series. If you go by playoff runs, it's also Dirk with his 2006 and 2011 playoff performances.

Just some examples:
2002 against Garnett (3-0), already posted:
33.3 pts / 15.7 reb /0.7 ast / 3 stl on .686 TS%.

2006 against Duncan and the 2005/2007 Champs (4-3):
27.1 pts/ 13.3 reb / 2.7 ast on .654 TS%

In his playoff loss against the nuggets in 2009 (1-4) he put up 34.4 pts / 11.6 reb / 4 ast on .660 TS%.

2011 he was great against the Lakers and OKC (>30 pts and >0.700 TS% against OKC)

There are players who drop off in the playoffs and I think Garnett is one of them, at least offensively. Karl Malone is another good example.

Dirk didn't really had more trouble scoring against better teams. Obviously he had bad shooting nights and from time to time a bad stretch of games like every player has, but it was hard to stop him when he was his usual self. Dirk's rebounding numbers were great earlier in his career but dropped off later, so did his steal and block numbers.

Before Dirk's prime or at the start of his prime there was always a discussion who was the best player on the Mavs (Finley, Nash or Dirk). In the playoffs it was always Dirk who stood out when the other two struggled.

[stevieming]

Dirk no question.

Off topic - man, how epic and good match it would have been to have KG and Dirk on the same team....

KG holds down the D and rebounds, adds in a dash of O and Dirk to close out and provide the scoring.

That would have been the ultimate twin tower right there.....in fact now that i think about it, Dirk and KG would have beaten the lakers of Shaq and Kobe in my opinion. Well...maybe...:oldlol:

[BlackWhiteGreen]

New thread is new.

The people arguing it's not even a question are the biggest idiots here. I'd take Garnett, for obvious reason, but I get why you might take Dirk. He has been to the playoffs more and does score better/more efficiently (although his efficiency is down to the fact he shot 3s).