How Long Would Larry Bird Have Played Without the Injury?

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Iguess this question is more directed at Celtic fams, but anyone who saw him play on a regular basis probably is qualified to answer. Bird injured his back, retired after the 92 season. Assuming his back was fine, how long could he have played? And how long at a high level?

[andgar923]

Iguess this question is more directed at Celtic fams, but anyone who saw him play on a regular basis probably is qualified to answer. Bird injured his back, retired after the 92 season. Assuming his back was fine, how long could he have played? And how long at a high level?

If he played today much longer.

He would've received better treatment, training, dieting, etc.etc. I don't think Bird lifted weights or did the type of modern conditioning players do today until late in his career. And I'm sure that most of that was for rehab.

Thing is, kids 14 years old today are training the way the pros did in the 80s. I said this in a thread a long time ago, we'll see Bron play at a high level in his late 40s and I wouldn't be surprised if future generations keep playing well into their 50s and beyond.

As technology and modern medicine improves, so will a player's longevity and performance.

If he never injured his back, he'd be playing well into his 30s, but all the beer would eventually get to him.

[Eric Cartman]

If he played today much longer.

He would've received better treatment, training, dieting, etc.etc. I don't think Bird lifted weights or did the type of modern conditioning players do today until late in his career. And I'm sure that most of that was for rehab.

Thing is, kids 14 years old today are training the way the pros did in the 80s. I said this in a thread a long time ago, we'll see Bron play at a high level in his late 40s and I wouldn't be surprised if future generations keep playing well into their 50s and beyond.

As technology and modern medicine improves, so will a player's longevity and performance.

If he never injured his back, he'd be playing well into his 30s, but all the beer would eventually get to him.


http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/7/28/71e62979-7599-4651-a200-fccfb1e6e0d2.jpg

[1987_Lakers]

If he played today much longer.

He would've received better treatment, training, dieting, etc.etc. I don't think Bird lifted weights or did the type of modern conditioning players do today until late in his career. And I'm sure that most of that was for rehab.

Thing is, kids 14 years old today are training the way the pros did in the 80s. I said this in a thread a long time ago, we'll see Bron play at a high level in his late 40s and I wouldn't be surprised if future generations keep playing well into their 50s and beyond.

As technology and modern medicine improves, so will a player's longevity and performance.

If he never injured his back, he'd be playing well into his 30s, but all the beer would eventually get to him.

lmao

[andgar923]

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/7/28/71e62979-7599-4651-a200-fccfb1e6e0d2.jpg

Sounds hard to believe but it's a possibility.

We'll be seeing Kobe play well into his mid 40s.

MJ didn't benefit from today's advancements until his late 20s, and they still weren't as advanced. Yet he was still a good player in his late 30s, some believe that he could be a productive player right now at 50-ish.

We're already seeing players bounce back from injuries faster than before, injuries that would've cost a player's season are now weeks, injuries that would've retired players in the past are now treatable. And this is the case for all of sports. In the future we'll see things we'd never thought would be possible, and if embryonic stem cell research is allowed in the US, we'll see a new world of possibilities arise, just like there is in other countries.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Well what im asking is how much further into the 90s could he haved played wothout the back injury? And how many of those years could he have played at a high level? Could he have made it 20 years?

[andgar923]

Well what im asking is how much further into the 90s could he haved played wothout the back injury? And how many of those years could he have played at a high level? Could he have made it 20 years?

No.

He had a bad diet, didn't work out, and drank too much beer. Besides, he played forward in a tough physical era, his body wouldn't have lasted much.

[The Choken One]

andgar.........:facepalm

Just stop. Into the 40's & 50's?

Bro... no.

[vinsane01]

Sounds hard to believe but it's a possibility.

We'll be seeing Kobe play well into his mid 40s.

MJ didn't benefit from today's advancements until his late 20s, and they still weren't as advanced. Yet he was still a good player in his late 30s, some believe that he could be a productive player right now at 50-ish.

We're already seeing players bounce back from injuries faster than before, injuries that would've cost a player's season are now weeks, injuries that would've retired players in the past are now treatable. And this is the case for all of sports. In the future we'll see things we'd never thought would be possible, and if embryonic stem cell research is allowed in the US, we'll see a new world of possibilities arise, just like there is in other countries.

I think you are reaching dude. Could MJ be productive at 50 if he stayed in shaped and dedicated much time in the gym to counterbalance the effects of aging? He could be able to play basketball at a high level but not in a level dominated by younger competition. I think that is the major factor here. Basketball is a popular sport and young people all over the globe wants to play in the NBA. Age and injuries isnt the only factor preventing the veterans from staying, younger players will always be there to challenge the older guys.

Advances in medicine to combat the body's deterioration is a nice thought but right now it's relatively far from reality.

[KDthunderup]

apparently there are scientist developing a drug which can slow down the aging process, it could be possible to have players in the distant future even playing into there 60's

[AirTupac]

Hahahahaha High level at 40's and 50's hahahahahaah


hahahahahahahahahhaa
ahahahaha















hahahahahahaha
hahaha

[Tha Catalyst]

If he played today much longer.

He would've received better treatment, training, dieting, etc.etc. I don't think Bird lifted weights or did the type of modern conditioning players do today until late in his career. And I'm sure that most of that was for rehab.

Thing is, kids 14 years old today are training the way the pros did in the 80s. I said this in a thread a long time ago, we'll see Bron play at a high level in his late 40s and I wouldn't be surprised if future generations keep playing well into their 50s and beyond.

As technology and modern medicine improves, so will a player's longevity and performance.

If he never injured his back, he'd be playing well into his 30s, but all the beer would eventually get to him.
Your either a madman who has been given time in the computer room at a mental asylum or you have literally no idea of how the human body works and how medicine advances and at what rate it advances. That was absolutely moronic rambling. I'm sorry.

[KevinNYC]

No.

He had a bad diet, didn't work out, and drank too much beer. Besides, he played forward in a tough physical era, his body wouldn't have lasted much.

I don't think Bird drank too much beer late in his career. He used to go out partying so much with Rick Robey that the Celtics traded Robey for this reason. A lot of Celtics say it's no coincidence won his first MVP the year of that trade. I know the 1986 Celtics swore off drinking for the playoffs.

Bird certainly did work out. Perhaps by work out you mean lift weights. But he had a pretty tough off season schedule and kept himself in shape, but it was an old-school routine. The main way he kept himself in shape was running, biking and basketball. It's not Bird like ever came into camp out of shape. Those 80's Celtics teams ran and ran and that's what most of their preseason workouts consisted of. I know in the early years that Bill Fitch was known for having brutal workouts. Phil Jackson was coached by him in college and said Fitch would run them dizzy and then have them do pushups.

In the Book, When The Game Was Ours, they discuss Bird's workouts in the summer of 83 (http://books.google.com/books?id=4kLJkLerSaAC&pg=PA124&lpg=PA124&dq=bill+fitch+workouts&source=bl&ots=xe-Mz8vhx1&sig=OTqugc8Dm50v-WcpJLhWsTyQLCI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4xkUT92RIuf20gGg7oC2Aw&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=20%20miles&f=false) after they got swept by the Bucks in the playoffs.

At 7am every morning he would run 5 miles ever morning uphill, bike 20 miles then shoot hundreds of jumpers and free throws on his outdoor court in the heat of the Indiana summer. Quinn Buckner visited him during the summer and said he was walking halfway through, the uphill run. If you remember that famous game during a Boston Heat Wave in the old un-air-conditioned Boston Garden, Bird went off. They were running supplementary oxygen on the Laker bench that night (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=NaybqnoY8RQ#t=00m56s) and Bird ended up with 34 points and 17 rebounds.

The other thing with Bird is it wasn't one single injury, he had the chronic back problems, but he also had bone spurs on his ankles that popped both his Achilles tendons early in 1988-89 season. Bird's back injuries caused him to seek out modern training after the 1986-87 season (http://basketbawful.blogspot.com/2008/03/kobe-bryant-always-prepared.html) ended and he started the 87-88 season in great shape and that's when his first Achilles injury started.


his physical therapist, Dan Dyrek, gave Larry a four-inch thick notebook filled with flexibility exercises, strengthening exercises, cardiovascular exercises, and nutritional guidelines. Bird came back the next season in the best shape of his life, and it showed. He suddenly had a quick first step, and he stunned his Celtic teammates during the exhibition season by following a missed shot with a two-handed, put-back dunk. Nobody could believe it. It was like basketball scientists had somehow discovered a cure for "White Man's Disease" over the summer.

Bird started the 1987-88 campaign on fire. In the second game of the season, Bird capped the Bullets with 47 points, including a three-pointer to tie the game and another bucket in overtime to win it. Two games later, he became the first Celtic to produce a 40/20 game with 44 points and 22 rebounds against the Pacers.

But less than a week later, Bird attempted a behind-the-back dribble against the Cavaliers and strained both of his Achilles tendons. There were already bone spurs in the area and they snapped at the base of the tendon. Bird wasn't the same for the rest of the season. In fact, you could argue he wasn't the same for the rest of his career.

Still, Bird managed his second straight 50/40/90 year (52.7 percent from the field, 41.4 from three-point range, and 91.6 from the line). He also scored a career-high 29.9 points per game and finished second to Michael Jordan in MVP voting. What nobody knew at the time was that Bird's career had officially peaked, and the beginning of the end came a mere six games into the following season when Bird opted to have surgery to remove the bone spurs under his Achilles tendons. Larry missed the rest of that season. He came back for the 1989-90 season, but he had lost the strength in his legs, and then his back started to go out on him. He would retire a few years later, hobbled and in constant pain.

(Also check out his nutritional habits at that link...much harder to defend than his workouts)

Two other health issues were revealed after he retired. I believe he kept both of these from his team doctor's. His back problems were aggravated by injury, but he also had a congenital back issue that would have caused him back problems during his life even if he didn't play basketball. His spinal column is a little too narrow and thus there's not enough space for all the nerves to fit comfortably. He also had occasionally had an irregular heartbeat (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1016949/index.htm).

Here's what Bird looked like in 1988. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_smamA0fDhM#t=4m49s) He has one of those bodies that's not going to look cut without Herculean effort, but he is pretty lean there. As anyone who has back or foot or ankle problems, they affect you much more than a bad hand or arm problem, because they affect how you move and your body tries to compensate it ways that often mess you up. During the 1991 playoffs, he was spending the nights in the hospital in traction.

I think without the injuries, he could have played until at least until 1996. His last season with all his issues at 35, he put up 20, 10 and 7 while playing 37 minutes a game.

I'm not a doctor or a trainer, but I don't think his old-school workout was all that bad. If he had added something like yoga to it a la Kareem, I think it probably would have been an excellent routine even without weights.

John Havlicek retired at 37 and he said if he knew Bird was coming in two years he would have stayed to play with him. I could see Bird having that long a career if he was healthy

[KevinNYC]

He could have used him some of this.

http://www.bikramyoga.com/News/images/kareemtwist.jpg

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Think about this.... he was 36 when he retired. Tim Duncan (who played 4 years of college like Bird and had many playoff runs) is not 36 yet and is already breaking down.

Even if Bird didn't hurt his back, he would not have last much longer. There are always some guys who can play to near age 40. But there level of play takes a major hit. And Bird was NEVER the guy who was in tip top shape..... he was always more of a "gamer".... a guy who would push his body through pain just to get out on the court. But not the guy who would be "a physical specimen."

[Rnbizzle]

Brb getting my crystal ball.

[bwink23]

Hahahahaha High level at 40's and 50's hahahahahaah


hahahahahahahahahhaa
ahahahaha















hahahahahahaha
hahaha



You laugh now....but it's heading in that direction...remember Kobe's knee ?? "Experimental" injections of his own blood into the cartilage he has left to regenerate it?? That would never have been thought of as a possibility just several years ago. Someday somebody may actually be able to replace worn or torn cartilage with material much stronger and last a lifetime without issues.

Before Tommy John surgery was developed in baseball, a torn UCL was a sure-fire way to end your career...now it can actually make your arm throw harder. Science and medical advancements will continue to improve in ways you will not be able to imagine.

[greymatter]

He started late at 23. About 15 or 16 seasons sounds about right.

[greymatter]

Think about this.... he was 36 when he retired. Tim Duncan (who played 4 years of college like Bird and had many playoff runs) is not 36 yet and is already breaking down.

Even if Bird didn't hurt his back, he would not have last much longer. There are always some guys who can play to near age 40. But there level of play takes a major hit. And Bird was NEVER the guy who was in tip top shape..... he was always more of a "gamer".... a guy who would push his body through pain just to get out on the court. But not the guy who would be "a physical specimen."

You're talking out of your ass here. Bird was the type who ran about 16-18 miles a week and was able to run a 5 minute mile. He was plenty fit, but never the weight room type.

[oolalaa]

I don't think Bird drank too much beer late in his career. He used to go out partying so much with Rick Robey that the Celtics traded Robey for this reason. A lot of Celtics say it's no coincidence won his first MVP the year of that trade. I know the 1986 Celtics swore off drinking for the playoffs.

Bird certainly did work out. Perhaps by work out you mean lift weights. But he had a pretty tough off season schedule and kept himself in shape, but it was an old-school routine. The main way he kept himself in shape was running, biking and basketball. It's not Bird like ever came into camp out of shape. Those 80's Celtics teams ran and ran and that's what most of their preseason workouts consisted of. I know in the early years that Bill Fitch was known for having brutal workouts. Phil Jackson was coached by him in college and said Fitch would run them dizzy and then have them do pushups.

In the Book, When The Game Was Ours, they discuss Bird's workouts in the summer of 83 (http://books.google.com/books?id=4kLJkLerSaAC&pg=PA124&lpg=PA124&dq=bill+fitch+workouts&source=bl&ots=xe-Mz8vhx1&sig=OTqugc8Dm50v-WcpJLhWsTyQLCI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4xkUT92RIuf20gGg7oC2Aw&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=20%20miles&f=false) after they got swept by the Bucks in the playoffs.

At 7am every morning he would run 5 miles ever morning uphill, bike 20 miles then shoot hundreds of jumpers and free throws on his outdoor court in the heat of the Indiana summer. Quinn Buckner visited him during the summer and said he was walking halfway through, the uphill run. If you remember that famous game during a Boston Heat Wave in the old un-air-conditioned Boston Garden, Bird went off. They were running supplementary oxygen on the Laker bench that night (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=NaybqnoY8RQ#t=00m56s) and Bird ended up with 34 points and 17 rebounds.

The other thing with Bird is it wasn't one single injury, he had the chronic back problems, but he also had bone spurs on his ankles that popped both his Achilles tendons early in 1988-89 season. Bird's back injuries caused him to seek out modern training after the 1986-87 season (http://basketbawful.blogspot.com/2008/03/kobe-bryant-always-prepared.html) ended and he started the 87-88 season in great shape and that's when his first Achilles injury started.



(Also check out his nutritional habits at that link...much harder to defend than his workouts)

Two other health issues were revealed after he retired. I believe he kept both of these from his team doctor's. His back problems were aggravated by injury, but he also had a congenital back issue that would have caused him back problems during his life even if he didn't play basketball. His spinal column is a little too narrow and thus there's not enough space for all the nerves to fit comfortably. He also had occasionally had an irregular heartbeat (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1016949/index.htm).

Here's what Bird looked like in 1988. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_smamA0fDhM#t=4m49s) He has one of those bodies that's not going to look cut without Herculean effort, but he is pretty lean there. As anyone who has back or foot or ankle problems, they affect you much more than a bad hand or arm problem, because they affect how you move and your body tries to compensate it ways that often mess you up. During the 1991 playoffs, he was spending the nights in the hospital in traction.

I think without the injuries, he could have played until at least until 1996. His last season with all his issues at 35, he put up 20, 10 and 7 while playing 37 minutes a game.

I'm not a doctor or a trainer, but I don't think his old-school workout was all that bad. If he had added something like yoga to it a la Kareem, I think it probably would have been an excellent routine even without weights.

John Havlicek retired at 37 and he said if he knew Bird was coming in two years he would have stayed to play with him. I could see Bird having that long a career if he was healthy

:applause:

Birds greatness centered around his passing/playmaking and his shooting. These are the last two aspects of a players game to go. He would have been one of the best players in the league well into his thirties.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

You're talking out of your ass here. Bird was the type who ran about 16-18 miles a week and was able to run a 5 minute mile. He was plenty fit, but never the weight room type.

Well from the same article that was posted earlier:


"So everything Bird did was pretty consistent with an era in which nobody knew anything about health. I mean, doctors were still trying to cure arthritis by injecting people with gold flakes, which is about half a step ahead of using leeches and maggots as medical devices. This might explain why Larry once used a diet of popcorn and 7-Up to lose 20 pounds immediately prior to the 1987 playoffs. According to Larry Legend himself, he wanted to feel "light and hungry." Well, I'm pretty sure he got his wish on the "hungry" part. Sounds crazy, doesn't it? Depriving the body of vital nutrition right before the most important stretch of the season. But Bird didn't know any better. Not many people did."

There is a difference between work ethic and shape. Larry ran, and shot. No question about it. But he was not the guy that was a physical specimen. And that had a lot to do with his lifestyle choices off the court. And his body paid for it. Dieting is part of getting in shape.

[barkleynash]

I think the bigger factor would have been the Len Bias factor, a big if, but had he not died tragically, birds career may well have been extended by 3-4 years. With a front court rotation of bird, mchale, parish and bias, the celts could have rested their big 3 so much more. bird would have been a 3/4 and mchale a 4/5 with bias defending all the elite wings. They also would not have had to trade Danny Ainge, who played some great basketball in the late 80's. All the got for him were joe kleine and ed pinkney.
I think the celts would have at least 2 more rings if bias were there.
not sure if they would have landed reggie lewis, if they had bias.
I probably would have returned mchale to his sixth man role where he excelled when he was young and put bird at 4 where later in his career, he was more suited to, at least defensively. Bird 34 minutes, bias 38, parish 34 and mchale 32.
too many ifs, but I would have loved to watch how it would have turned out

[LA_Showtime]

Andgar's just trolling with you guys. There's no way anybody legitimately believes that players will ever play into their 50s.

[KevinNYC]

There is a difference between work ethic and shape. Larry ran, and shot. No question about it. But he was not the guy that was a physical specimen. And that had a lot to do with his lifestyle choices off the court. And his body paid for it. Dieting is part of getting in shape.

You seem not to understand what in shape means. In shape doesn't mean you are a physical specimen and in Bird's case when he was at his most active and all over the court on offense and defense before the first back injury in 1985, he didn't look the physical specimen then either.

Bird's fitness was never the issue. He was always in game shape and ready to play heavy minutes during the season. You talk about his diet like he was heavy during the seaon. It never happened. Post a pic of an out of shape Larry Bird during his playing years. Contrary to what the earlier poster said he ran 30+ miles a week and biked over 120.

The gamer who was pushing through pain that you talk about was the post-injury Bird. Gamers don't play the second most minutes in the NBA two years in a row.

Is there an exercise you can do that prevents bone spurs from causing your Achilles tendons to pop? Because he was in the best shape of his life when that happened.


Also speaking of Duncan
Tim Duncan overtakes Larry Bird on list of all-time leading scorers (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/12/tim-duncan-passes-larry-bird-on-all-time-scoring-list/)

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

You seem not to understand what in shape means. In shape doesn't mean you are a physical specimen and in Bird's case when he was at his most active and all over the court on offense and defense before the first back injury in 1985, he didn't look the physical specimen then either.

Bird's fitness was never the issue. He was always in game shape and ready to play heavy minutes during the season. You talk about his diet like he was heavy during the seaon. It never happened. Post a pic of an out of shape Larry Bird during his playing years. Contrary to what the earlier poster said he ran 30+ miles a week and biked over 120.

The gamer who was pushing through pain that you talk about was the post-injury Bird. Gamers don't play the second most minutes in the NBA two years in a row.

Is there an exercise you can do that prevents bone spurs from causing your Achilles tendons to pop? Because he was in the best shape of his life when that happened.
With the exception of the Eddy Curry's of the basketball world, you can RARELY find pictures of out of shape basketball athletes. Hell, the Mavs were out of shape earlier this year but you can't see it through pics.

Hence what I said about a gamer. He pushed himself on the court through stuff. As for Bird being "ready." That is the definition of a gamer. If he was hurting, with two broke arms, and a a broke foot, he was ready. He played through pain. But then again him playing through pain and big minutes cost him some longevity. Bird didn't even play a 1,000 games in the NBA. Kobe/Dirk/Duncan/KG have all played more games and more minutes and all are younger than him when he retired. And yes that also came for his lifestyle outside of the basketball world. He may have ran and shot, like I mentioned earlier but that doesn't take just magically undo the damage of going to the bars, staying out, etc did to him. As he once told a reporter:

"The one good thing about all this is that maybe people finally understand that I'm human. I make mistakes; I've made a lot of mistakes. I like to drink beer and go out and have a good time--I'm human."

Bob Woolf, Bird's agent, said this week an out-of-court settlement had been reached with Harlow and an unidentified woman, who had sued Bird because he allegedly threw a punch outside of Chelsea's, a bar near Boston's Quincy Market.

[andgar923]

Andgar's just trolling with you guys. There's no way anybody legitimately believes that players will ever play into their 50s.

Why not?

I never mentioned that they'd be as dominant in their 50s, but they could be productive enough to play.

We're seeing players last longer than previous generations in all sports as it is. How can you be sure that 15-20 years from now we won't be seeing a player come off the bench at the age of 51?

As I mentioned, there's some that believe MJ could be a productive player in his 50s if he decided too.

And again, with advancements in the fields I mentioned regeneration of tissue, muscle, and other forms of medicinal and therapy we will see this a possibility. Of course, it won't be the case with every player, but the players that are already elite athletes will continue to have that advantage.

You laugh now, but let us wait 20 years before you stop being shortsighted.

[LA_Showtime]

Why not?

I never mentioned that they'd be as dominant in their 50s, but they could be productive enough to play.

We're seeing players last longer than previous generations in all sports as it is. How can you be sure that 15-20 years from now we won't be seeing a player come off the bench at the age of 51?

As I mentioned, there's some that believe MJ could be a productive player in his 50s if he decided too.

And again, with advancements in the fields I mentioned regeneration of tissue, muscle, and other forms of medicinal and therapy we will see this a possibility. Of course, it won't be the case with every player, but the players that are already elite athletes will continue to have that advantage.

You laugh now, but let us wait 20 years before you stop being shortsighted.

No one but OldSchoolBBall and you believe Jordan could've played in his 50s. There is no way a 50-year-old will ever be able to guard a 25-year-old and be able to recover and play back to backs, come back from injuries, etc. I could see the NBA one day having a retro night where former players play against each other and it's not a complete embarrassment, but that's all.

[andgar923]

There's also a difference between cardio and weight lifting exercises.

Weight lifting helps a body stay stronger (duh) and add to one's longevity. It also aids to keep one from getting injured.

Naturally, some injuries are still gonna affect a player, but weight training and diet can help improve a player's chances at staying healthier, or at least endure more.

[LA_Showtime]

I could see a 40-50 year old having some success overseas or in a lesser league someday. But in the NBA? Hell no.

[andgar923]

No one but OldSchoolBBall and you believe Jordan could've played in his 50s. There is no way a 50-year-old will ever be able to guard a 25-year-old and be able to recover and play back to backs, come back from injuries, etc. I could see the NBA one day having a retro night where former players play against each other and it's not a complete embarrassment, but that's all.

You dumb*ck, players and coaches have stated that the could play and be effective.

NOBODY says he'd be scoring 50 points every night.

But he'd be serviceable enough to contribute.

And again... if a player like Bron or other great physically gifted players dedicated themselves they could play in their 50s if they chose too. Naturally, not at the same level, but they'd still be good enough to play off the bench if they accepted such a role.

[LA_Showtime]

You dumb*ck, players and coaches have stated that the could play and be effective.

NOBODY says he'd be scoring 50 points every night.

But he'd be serviceable enough to contribute.

And again... if a player like Bron or other great physically gifted players dedicated themselves they could play in their 50s if they chose too. Naturally, not at the same level, but they'd still be good enough to play off the bench if they accepted such a role.

Even if players could play into their 50s (which they will never be able to), they wouldn't. The only guys who would be able to stay effective would have to be extremely talented and fundamentally sound e.g. Jordan, Kobe, etc. I doubt their egos would allow them to come off the bench and watch as their career numbers drop every year.

[andgar923]

Even if players could play into their 50s (which they will never be able to), they wouldn't. The only guys who would be able to stay effective would have to be extremely talented and fundamentally sound e.g. Jordan, Kobe, etc. I doubt their egos would allow them to come off the bench and watch as their career numbers drop every year.

I'm sure we'll see players continue to play longer than they should stick around, no matter how great they may have been.

Ironically, part of what may make them play that long even tho they're clearly past their prime is for the same reason you mentioned....

EGO

[Owl]

Leaving aside 50 NBA players (I don't know about future medical advances but for the forseeable future I'm not buying it), I would suggest asking how Bird could have lasted without injuries is asking 2 questions. The first relates to his game, which was based on shooting, passing, rebounding and BBall IQ, and he never had much athleticism to begin with. As such Bird's game should have aged well. Another X Factor would be defenders, throughout most of the 80's he was defended by the likes of Kelly Tripucka, Adrian Dantley, Mark Aguirre, Purvis Short, Orlando Woolridge, Bernard King, Kiki Vandeweghe, Eddie Johnson etc and very few guys with athleticism, length, skill and intensity at the defensive end. See how (a full strength) Bird would cope with the likes of Pippen, Rodman and other better athletes would have been interesting. I imagine he would still get his though possibly he would play more minutes as a stretch 4.

The other question is how far back are we going to rectify his injuries, and to what degree his breaking down was inevitable. This has been well covered by others, and I would have no claim to expertise on the matter so I'll stay quiet here.


Oh and for those interested in the play to 50 debate here's some data on the oldest players thus far http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_and_youngest_National_Basketball_As sociation_players
IDK if it's comprehensive but it lists 17 players playing beyond 40 in the NBL/NBA

[Kobe 4 The Win]

I don't know that Bird would have played any longer without the injuries. He was 35 in his last season. However, you would have seen his production stay at an MVP level a lot longer than it did. He didn't just have a back injury, he had shooting elbow, achilles problems and more.

Dude was a god though.

[KevinNYC]

Bird didn't even play a 1,000 games in the NBA. Kobe/Dirk/Duncan/KG have all played more games and more minutes and all are younger than him when he retired.

Have any of them had both their Achilles tendons snap at the same time due to bone spurs?

You keep pointing to this lifestyle-off-the-court-nonsense. What should have done to prevent bone spurs? Did Kobe/Kirk/Duncan/KG ever develop bone spurs growing into their Achilles tendons. Have their every had an injury seriously enough to miss an entire season?

Bird was coming of a season where he averaged 30-9-6 and was in the best shape of his life. He had by now been following the program his physical therapist had recommended for two years when the injury to his tendons happened and he was never the same again. In his book Bird Watching, he says


When I started my rehab that summer, I knew I would never been the same. My legs felt different. The surgery took all the life out of them. I did all the exercises and workouts they gave me, but I couldn't move the way I used to. I could still score and rebound and all that, but defensively it really affected me. I didn't have the same lift or side-to-side movement.

His second major back injury occurred on the court as well. During the off-season at a charity basketball game, Bird and Jordan were both going for a rebound and Jordan landed on Bird's back.

Here's what folks were saying about him the season before the surgery. (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1988-01-12/sports/8803210843_1_kevin-mchale-bird-a-bulls)

Bird went on a 17-game tear where he shot 56 percent from the floor and averaged 31 points a game. His added quickness and strength resulted in 42 points and 20 rebounds in a game against Indiana in November. .....

Bird`s summer vacation was spent lifting weights, running and exercising five or six days a week beginning at 6 a.m.

He also had a minor Achilles injury that year


Until the Achilles` tendon problems, Bird was driving to the basket like never before and dominating games by himself. Since the injury, he has begun relying on a running left-handed scoop shot and a one-handed baseline turnaround jumper, pushing the ball off his right hand like a shot putter.

Look at this quote from Jordan on the attitude towards NBA conditioning back then

Bulls star Michael Jordan knows Bird is looking for every edge he can get.


`Bulls star Michael Jordan knows Bird is looking for every edge he can get.`He doesn`t settle for just one style of play,`` Jordan said. ``He is always trying to get better and better. Perhaps he is at that time in his career where he wanted to try it (weight training). When I get to that point in my career, I might pick up a few weights.``

[KevinNYC]

Bird didn't even play a 1,000 games in the NBA. Kobe/Dirk/Duncan/KG have all played more games and more minutes and all are younger than him when he retired.

Have any of them had BOTH their Achilles tendons snap at the same time due to bone spurs?

You keep pointing to this lifestyle-off-the-court-nonsense. What should have done to prevent bone spurs? Did Kobe/Kirk/Duncan/KG ever develop bone spurs growing into their Achilles tendons. Have their every had an injury seriously enough to miss an entire season?

Bird was coming of a season where he averaged 30-9-6 and was in the best shape of his life. He had by now been following the program his physical therapist had recommended for two years when the injury to his tendons happened and he was never the same again. In his book Bird Watching, he says


When I started my rehab that summer, I knew I would never been the same. My legs felt different. The surgery took all the life out of them. I did all the exercises and workouts they gave me, but I couldn't move the way I used to. I could still score and rebound and all that, but defensively it really affected me. I didn't have the same lift or side-to-side movement.

His second major back injury occurred on the court as well. During the off-season at a charity basketball game, Bird and Jordan were both going for a rebound and Jordan landed on Bird's back.

Here's what folks were saying about him the season before the surgery. (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1988-01-12/sports/8803210843_1_kevin-mchale-bird-a-bulls)

Bird went on a 17-game tear where he shot 56 percent from the floor and averaged 31 points a game. His added quickness and strength resulted in 42 points and 20 rebounds in a game against Indiana in November. .....

Bird`s summer vacation was spent lifting weights, running and exercising five or six days a week beginning at 6 a.m.

He also had a minor Achilles injury that year


Until the Achilles` tendon problems, Bird was driving to the basket like never before and dominating games by himself. Since the injury, he has begun relying on a running left-handed scoop shot and a one-handed baseline turnaround jumper, pushing the ball off his right hand like a shot putter.

Look at this quote from Jordan on the attitude towards NBA conditioning back then

Bulls star Michael Jordan knows Bird is looking for every edge he can get.


`Bulls star Michael Jordan knows Bird is looking for every edge he can get.`He doesn`t settle for just one style of play,`` Jordan said. ``He is always trying to get better and better. Perhaps he is at that time in his career where he wanted to try it (weight training). When I get to that point in my career, I might pick up a few weights.``