Kenny Drops more knowledge about PGs

[Tenchi Ryu]

"In order to be a good point guard, its not about points, its not about assist. Its all about making the right decisions."

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[305Baller]

true, true. but if you cant score or make an assist your decision-making is not going to cut it.

[Rowe]

"In order to be a good point guard, its not about points, its not about assist. Its all about making the right decisions."

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Agree 100%.

Thats why Chris Paul >>>> Derrick Rose

[fubu05]

true, true. but if you cant score or make an assist your decision-making is not going to cut it.

But if you make the right decision to dump it into the post and the player you give it to takes a couple dribbles makes some moves and scores, you don't get credited with the assists or points even though you made the right decision.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Agree 100%.

Thats why Derrick Rose >>>> Chris Paul
Fixed that for you...the Memphis game clearly showed that, especially the decision making part.

[Eric Cartman]

When u are a point guard it's about assist u f*cking moron. That's why Nash & Magic are GOAT.

[juju151111]

Agree 100%.

Thats why Chris Paul >>>> Derrick Rose
Stop it son Drose>>>CP3

[demons2005]

Fixed that for you...the Memphis game clearly showed that, especially the decision making part.
And while that game was going on the Clippers were owning without CP

[Eric Cartman]

Agree 100%.

Thats why Chris Paul >>>> Derrick Rose


D-rose >>>>>> CP3 sorry to say friend.

[Alamo]

When u are a point guard it's about assist u f*cking moron. That's why Nash & Magic are GOAT.


:facepalm

[juju151111]

When u are a point guard it's about assist u f*cking moron. That's why Nash & Magic are GOAT.
Nash 2nd? Stay off the pipe and Magic was told to score more in 87 and became his best season.

[Tenchi Ryu]

And while that game was going on the Clippers were owning without CP
Exactly, Clippers have players that can still make good plays without CP3, specifically with Billups at PG.

Bulls were completely lost at times....making terrible decisions, and acting like they didn't know what to do next.

[I.R.Beast]

Agree 100%.

Thats why Chris Paul >>>> Derrick Rose


Umm....Rose has done more in his career than Paul....i think his decision making has been quite Fine. Replace Rose with paul on the Clippers and The clippers would have a better record than they do right now.

[Eric Cartman]

Nash 2nd? Stay off the pipe and Magic was told to score more in 87 and became his best season.


Just wanted to know how it feels to be a troll.

I'm cereal.

[I.R.Beast]

When u are a point guard it's about assist u f*cking moron. That's why Nash & Magic are GOAT.

syas who....didnt know this was a rule..... the label of your position is irrelevant. The role of any player is to play to your strengths ad help the team win. APG is overrated.

[JerrySteakhouse]

Fixed that for you...the Memphis game clearly showed that, especially the decision making part.
:lol

CP3 >>>> Rose as a PG.

[Rowe]

:lol

CP3 >>>> Rose as a PG.
They just wont own up to the truth.

[Tenchi Ryu]

CP3 doesn't even have a case until he makes my avatar wrong.

[Clocian-IGN]

CP3 doesn't even have a case until he makes my avatar wrong.

:bowdown:

[9512]

D Rose may be the most exciting but I still think of CP3 as the better PG...

[I.R.Beast]

:lol

CP3 >>>> Rose as a PG.
Yes by your definition of what a PG should be, Rose is a better player, and since he is listed as a PG that means he is a better PG than Paul.

I guess because Dirk is not a "True Pf" that he isnt the best PF in the game either right?

[StateOfMind12]

Assists is such a misleading stat. I find it dumb how people think player A is a better passer than player B just because he has more apg. It's a misleading stat and pretty much a bogus one at that.

Kenny is right though. It's about your decision making skills more so than your assists or points or whatever. There is a reason why Tom Brady is better than Brees and Drew Brees pretty much destroys Brady in most stats. It is because Brady is the better decision maker than Brees. It applies the same way in the NBA with PGs as well.

[juju151111]

:lol

CP3 >>>> Rose as a PG.
Smh CP3 don't got noting on D the truth Rose.

[JerrySteakhouse]

Yes by your definition of what a PG should be, Rose is a better player, and since he is listed as a PG that means he is a better PG than Paul.

I guess because Dirk is not a "True Pf" that he isnt the best PG in the game either right?
Clearly you missed the point.Yes, Rose is the better overall player (by a hairline). But CP3 is a better true PG, hell even Rondo is a better true PG than Rose. You should really figure out what a true PG does before you come up with that weak shit.

[JerrySteakhouse]

Assists is such a misleading stat. I find it dumb how people think player A is a better passer than player B just because he has more apg. It's a misleading stat and pretty much a bogus one at that.

Kenny is right though. It's about your decision making skills more so than your assists or points or whatever. There is a reason why Tom Brady is better than Brees and Drew Brees pretty much destroys Brady in most stats. It is because Brady is the better decision maker than Brees. It applies the same way in the NBA with PGs as well.
Not sure what you're trying to say with that but Rose assists > CP3 if you were trying to imply otherwise. CP3 is the better passer/decision maker hands down though.

[StateOfMind12]

Not sure what you're trying to say with that but Rose assists > CP3 if you were trying to imply otherwise. CP3 is the better passer/decision maker hands down though.
I was responding to what the OP said in his first post. My post had nothing to do with Cp3-Rose. I like both of them and I actually probably like CP3 better even though I am a Bulls fan. I do think assists is a dumb stat but you are right, even without assists CP3 still wins as a passer and decision maker. I don't think Rose is that far off in terms of those two aspects though. Is Rose behind? Yes, but by a lot? No.

[JerrySteakhouse]

I was responding to what the OP said in his first post. My post had nothing to do with Cp3-Rose. I like both of them and I actually probably like CP3 better even though I am a Bulls fan. I do think assists is a dumb stat but you are right, even without assists CP3 still wins as a passer and decision maker. I don't think Rose is that far off in terms of those two aspects though. Is Rose behind? Yes, but by a lot? No.
Can't agree more. :applause:

[Tenchi Ryu]

Not sure what you're trying to say with that but Rose assists > CP3 if you were trying to imply otherwise. CP3 is the better passer/decision maker hands down though.
Don't agree...did you see that Memphis game? That's was the entire reason they lost, lack of Rose's leadership. Rose's decision making/passing is the difference between a 8th seed Bulls and 1st seed Bulls. His playmaking is the entire reason he's getting his teammates such good shots this year. He sets them up in good places, and makes smart plays using himself as a decoy. He'll run to the lane, then at the final moment, dish it to a player he set up at the beginning of the play, the defense don't even expect it coming.

CP3 is good, and definitely second best PG right after Rose, but the impact he makes to this Bulls team is that much more than what CP3 does. He controls his team better than anyone else in the league right now. And his passes makes him look like a championship quarterback at times. I do think CP3 WAS the better PG, but not anymore.

[NBAller]

Yes by your definition of what a PG should be, Rose is a better player, and since he is listed as a PG that means he is a better PG than Paul.

I guess because Dirk is not a "True Pf" that he isnt the best PG in the game either right?

No...Dirk is not the best pg in the league.

[Rowe]

CP3 doesn't even have a case until he makes my avatar wrong.
So 1 game head to head decides that D-Rose somehow is the "superior PG" to Chris Paul? Really? :lol

Rose is a great scorer but if I'm trusting a PG to set up the offense, make good decisions with the basketball, and make his teammates better then I'm going with Chris Paul for each one.

Ironically those are the most important factors of being a PG.

One day Rose might be able to claim title to being the best overall PG in the NBA, but until then CP3 holds that title.

There is a reason why Rose says the thing he wants to improve the most on is his "Basketball IQ". Thats a clear reference to wanting to be a smarter player at the PG position.

[JerrySteakhouse]

Don't agree...did you see that Memphis game? That's was the entire reason they lost, lack of Rose's leadership. Rose's decision making/passing is the difference between a 8th seed Bulls and 1st seed Bulls. His playmaking is the entire reason he's getting his teammates such good shots this year. He sets them up and good places, and makes smart plays using himself as a decoy. He'll run to the lane, then at the final moment, dish it to a player he set up at the beginning of the play, the defense don't even expect it coming.

CP3 is good, and definitely second best PG right after Rose, but the impact he makes to this Bulls team is that much more than what CP3 does. He controls his team better than anyone else in the league right now.

Doesn't matter what happened in the Memphis game. I agree, they NEED Rose just like any team needs their superstar. I'm just talking about CP3/Rose, that game has nothing to do with it. You can't just look at the team structure and say player A > player B, we all see the difference between Lebron in Cleveland and Lebron in Miami, classic example.

[Rowe]

Don't agree...did you see that Memphis game? That's was the entire reason they lost, lack of Rose's leadership. Rose's decision making/passing is the difference between a 8th seed Bulls and 1st seed Bulls. His playmaking is the entire reason he's getting his teammates such good shots this year. He sets them up in good places, and makes smart plays using himself as a decoy. He'll run to the lane, then at the final moment, dish it to a player he set up at the beginning of the play, the defense don't even expect it coming.

CP3 is good, and definitely second best PG right after Rose, but the impact he makes to this Bulls team is that much more than what CP3 does. He controls his team better than anyone else in the league right now.

That doesn't mean Rose is a better PG than CP3, it means his role in Chicago requires far more in terms of scoring & making plays for others.

You understand that?

Chris Paul doesn't have as much of a scoring load on his back at this point in his career, but hes far more efficient controlling his team.

Hes a better passer
Hes a smarter player
Hes a better defender
He makes better decisions

Chris Paul is on par career-wise with Magic & Stockton from that standpoint of what they bring to the game.

btw Rose would be in my Top 5 if I were ranking "True PG"s in the league. Saying he isnt as good as CP3 from those aspects doesn't mean I'm saying he is terrible at what he does.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Rose is a great scorer but if I'm trusting a PG to set up the offense, make good decisions with the basketball, and make his teammates better then I'm going with Chris Paul for each one.


If we were talking about last year Rose, I'd agree, but I've seen to much improvement in Rose to agree this year. Half the reason Bulls are so successful this year Offensively is because Rose is being a great facilitator this year. CP3 might set up more replay highlights, but CP3 doesn't do anything better than Rose at this point.

[I.R.Beast]

Clearly you missed the point.Yes, Rose is the better overall player (by a hairline). But CP3 is a better true PG, hell even Rondo is a better true PG than Rose. You should really figure out what a true PG does before you come up with that weak shit.
okay...True PG..so what?.....what does that mean...what does being a true PG accomplush?...What evidence is there that shows being a true PG gives a team a better shot at success?....bottom line is Rose is better....don't confine the PG position to your definition of what the role entails...Better is better...

[Alamo]

Chris Paul is better at flashy no look passes, but I don't think he is a better PG than Derrick Rose at this moment. The Point Guard is the ball handler and play maker, often referred to as the Quarterback of the team. And no one is better at being the Quarterback of his team than Derrick Rose right now. IMO

Chris Paul is a better pass first/distribution PG, but not a better PG. If that were the case then Rondo would be the best PG in the league, then Nash, then CP3.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Chris Paul is better at flashy no look passes, but I don't think he is a better PG than Derrick Rose at this moment. The Point Guard is the ball handler and play maker, often referred to as the Quarterback of the team. And no one is better at being the Quarterback of his team than Derrick Rose right now. IMO
This.

[JerrySteakhouse]

okay...True PG..so what?.....what does that mean...what does being a true PG accomplush?...What evidence is there that shows being a true PG gives a team a better shot at success?....bottom line is Rose is better....don't confine the PG position to your definition of what the role entails...Better is better...
I agree, but I wasn't arguing that. Just said CP3 was a better true PG, didn't say it was always better for the team's success.

[tikay0]

Just....Stop! Can we as bulls fans just be insanely thankful that we have D-rose. You guys realize how lucky we are to have such a dynamic, young stud? Let the haters, hate. At the end of the day, if you told them they can press a button right now, that would switch rose to the clippers, and paul to the bulls, I can guarantee you that button would be greasier than an LA burrito.

[Clocian-IGN]

Chris Paul is better at flashy no look passes, but I don't think he is a better PG than Derrick Rose at this moment. The Point Guard is the ball handler and play maker, often referred to as the Quarterback of the team. And no one is better at being the Quarterback of his team than Derrick Rose right now. IMO

Chris Paul is a better pass first/distribution PG, but not a better PG. If that were the case then Rondo would be the best PG in the league, then Nash, then CP3.

ding ding ding. Playmaker means more than just passing, it means making the plays needed of the team, and nobody this or last year have made more plays than DROSE. This is the chart from last year, cp3 isn't even on the list.

http://www.teamrankings.com/blog/nba/how-involved-is-derrick-rose-in-the-chicago-bulls-offense

[cteach111]

i dunno.. Paul and Rose are very close as players. Paul does things Rose can't and vice versa.

Paul's vision, facilitating, passing, shooting skills are better than Rose's will ever be. Rose's primary, and very important advantage, is that he's a freak of nature for someone at the PG spot. However, I've been impressed with Rose's drive, his ability to pick up new things, his attitude, his competitiveness, and he walks the talk (or as much as possible :D ).

I think in terms of a skillset, he doesn't do anything better than Paul, but their mindsets are slightly different. Paul has a tendency to not be selfish and that IS a problem for him at times whereas Rose has no problem being aggressive.

I see them in the same tier, but they represent 2 different styles of play.

However, I really think Paul was a tad better than Rose was when he peaked a few seasons ago.

The way I see it, if Paul had more of an aggressive scoring (in terms of when to facilitate and when to score) mindset combined with the skills he already has, this would be Paul no question.

[tikay0]

i dunno.. Paul and Rose are very close as players. Paul does things Rose can't and vice versa.

Paul's vision, facilitating, passing, shooting skills are better than Rose's will ever be. Rose's primary, and very important advantage, is that he's a freak of nature for someone at the PG spot. However, I've been impressed with Rose's drive, his ability to pick up new things, his attitude, his competitiveness, and he walks the talk (or as much as possible :D ).

I think in terms of a skillset, he doesn't do anything better than Paul, but their mindsets are slightly different. Paul has a tendency to not be selfish and that IS a problem for him at times whereas Rose has no problem being aggressive.

I see them in the same tier, but they represent 2 different styles of play.

However, I really think Paul was a tad better than Rose was when he peaked a few seasons ago.

I would still take D-rose right now, over the cp-3 of a few years ago. Someone said it perfectly in another thread. Cp-3 is more of a eli manning, where as rose is more of a mike vick/cam newton. I take the duel threat all day.

[I.R.Beast]

I agree, but I wasn't arguing that. Just said CP3 was a better true PG, didn't say it was always better for the team's success.
what point is there tacking the word true in front of it?....PG is the position there are no confines to the position other than height range(with some tall players being an anomaly at the position). There was never a rule written that the point guard should primarily distribute the ball. The True PG crap needs to stop. And it baffles me how PGs such as cp3 with the ability to score get a pass for being passive and not looking to score when their team needs it because they are "true pgs" and are'nt supposed to score...BS u play to win the game do whatever is neccesary at the time.

[cteach111]

I would still take D-rose right now, over the cp-3 of a few years ago. Someone said it perfectly in another thread. Cp-3 is more of a eli manning, where as rose is more of a mike vick/cam newton. I take the duel threat all day.

imo, its close. i could see the argument for either

[Tenchi Ryu]

Drew Brees to Mike Vick comparison is a very good comparison to this scenerio too, and both would have people who would prefer them over the other.

Note, I'm not saying Rose is on another tier, I'm just saying that Rose IMO is better. I'll give CP3 the passing, but even that's not that spaced in difference anymore. One thing that's scary is that Rose is only 4 years old in the NBA, and has gradually improved EVERY Year. I eventually see him taking over CP3's 2008 run. One thing that Rose has is that drive, that ability to take it to the next level. He also has the hunger, very similar to MJ. If you think you're better than him, he's gonna work until that's not the case anymore.

[I.R.Beast]

i dunno.. Paul and Rose are very close as players. Paul does things Rose can't and vice versa.

Paul's vision, facilitating, passing, shooting skills are better than Rose's will ever be. Rose's primary, and very important advantage, is that he's a freak of nature for someone at the PG spot. However, I've been impressed with Rose's drive, his ability to pick up new things, his attitude, his competitiveness, and he walks the talk (or as much as possible :D ).

I think in terms of a skillset, he doesn't do anything better than Paul, but their mindsets are slightly different. Paul has a tendency to not be selfish and that IS a problem for him at times whereas Rose has no problem being aggressive.

I see them in the same tier, but they represent 2 different styles of play.

However, I really think Paul was a tad better than Rose was when he peaked a few seasons ago.

The way I see it, if Paul had more of an aggressive scoring (in terms of when to facilitate and when to score) mindset combined with the skills he already has, this would be Paul no question.
i wouldnt say paul's shot is mch better than Roses shot...Paul generally only shoots open jumpers off of screens or defenders playing of of him..Rose makes those types of shot with regularity as well.

[JerrySteakhouse]

what point is there tacking the word true in front of it?....PG is the position their are no confines to the position other than height range(with some tall players being an anomaly at the position). There was never a rule written that the point guard should primarily distribute the ball. The True PG crap needs to stop. And it baffles me how PGs such as cp3 with the ability to score get a pass for being passive and not looking to score when their team needs it because they are "true pgs" and are'nt supposed to score...BS u play to win the game do whatever is neccesary at the time.
Rose is a combo guard, that's all I'm saying. Rose doesn't always give you better results, if the team needs more scoring Rose would be the better option. But if the team needs a flat out true PG it would be better to take a guy like CP3, even Rondo...

[talkingconch]

That doesn't mean Rose is a better PG than CP3, it means his role in Chicago requires far more in terms of scoring & making plays for others.

You understand that?

Chris Paul doesn't have as much of a scoring load on his back at this point in his career, but hes far more efficient controlling his team.

Hes a better passer
Hes a smarter player
Hes a better defender
He makes better decisions

Chris Paul is on par career-wise with Magic & Stockton from that standpoint of what they bring to the game.

btw Rose would be in my Top 5 if I were ranking "True PG"s in the league. Saying he isnt as good as CP3 from those aspects doesn't mean I'm saying he is terrible at what he does.

Chris Paul is better than Rose and here are the reasons why in my opinion.

[juju151111]

Clearly you missed the point.Yes, Rose is the better overall player (by a hairline). But CP3 is a better true PG, hell even Rondo is a better true PG than Rose. You should really figure out what a true PG does before you come up with that weak shit.
It doesnt matter what a true PG does. Rose is the Best PG in the league. Who the hell says "I want to become the best true PG in the league". I guess Firm isn't the best PF because he isnt a true PF?

[talkingconch]

okay...True PG..so what?.....what does that mean...what does being a true PG accomplush?...What evidence is there that shows being a true PG gives a team a better shot at success?....bottom line is Rose is better....don't confine the PG position to your definition of what the role entails...Better is better...
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/tumblr_lmtg96lyFV1qzz0iho1_400.gif

[juju151111]

Rose is a combo guard, that's all I'm saying. Rose doesn't always give you better results, if the team needs more scoring Rose would be the better option. But if the team needs a flat out true PG it would be better to take a guy like CP3, even Rondo...
Your retarded Rose is a willing passer and Rose barley if ever switched to the SG position. Wtf combo guard are you retarded?

[I.R.Beast]

i dunno.. Paul and Rose are very close as players. Paul does things Rose can't and vice versa.

Paul's vision, facilitating, passing, shooting skills are better than Rose's will ever be. Rose's primary, and very important advantage, is that he's a freak of nature for someone at the PG spot. However, I've been impressed with Rose's drive, his ability to pick up new things, his attitude, his competitiveness, and he walks the talk (or as much as possible :D ).

I think in terms of a skillset, he doesn't do anything better than Paul, but their mindsets are slightly different. Paul has a tendency to not be selfish and that IS a problem for him at times whereas Rose has no problem being aggressive.

I see them in the same tier, but they represent 2 different styles of play.

However, I really think Paul was a tad better than Rose was when he peaked a few seasons ago.

The way I see it, if Paul had more of an aggressive scoring (in terms of when to facilitate and when to score) mindset combined with the skills he already has, this would be Paul no question.
You're insane Chris Paul has never possessed the ability to finish the way Rose does. His body control is atleast a notch below and he doesn't have the strength and athleticism to finish through contact the way Rose does. part of what gave paul avenues to score is his pass first mentality which forced the defense give him space to score so ass to defend the passing lanes. IF paul was more score-first then his driving lanes would be smaller and his passing lanes would be wider. His offensive output would be different.

[tikay0]

Drew Brees to Mike Vick comparison is a very good comparison to this scenerio too, and both would have people who would prefer them over the other.

Note, I'm not saying Rose is on another tier, I'm just saying that Rose IMO is better. I'll give CP3 the passing, but even that's not that spaced in difference anymore. One thing that's scary is that Rose is only 4 years old in the NBA, and has gradually improved EVERY Year. I eventually see him taking over CP3's 2008 run. One thing that Rose has is that drive, that ability to take it to the next level. He also has the hunger, very similar to MJ. If you think you're better than him, he's gonna work until that's not the case anymore.


You see, its mike vick's reputation as a scrambler, that people undermine his passing ability. Same goes for rose. It's just that the team has a lot more succes with rose running the offense and then taking the fugg over in the 4th. It's how the team's setup. If you put rose on a team with actual athletes like the clippers, they would be a sure fire 1st seed. Not a doubt in my mind. Can you imagine rose and griffin/jordan on a fast break. Not only that, you also have chauncey Billups (another creator) that can take an immense amount of burden off him. Rose on the clippers turns them into true contendors. Paul on the bulls=4-5 seed, due to paul not being able to sustain a considerably big scoring role on the team.

[JerrySteakhouse]

It doesnt matter what a true PG does. Rose is the Best PG in the league. Who the hell says "I want to become the best true PG in the league". I guess Firm isn't the best PF because he isnt a true PF?
Like I said, it depends on what the team needs are. Some teams would be far more successful with a true PG over a guy like Rose. :facepalm

Stop jumping the gun, Rose is the better scorer but CP3 is the better playmaker. SMFH

[JerrySteakhouse]

Your retarded Rose is a willing passer and Rose barley if ever switched to the SG position. Wtf combo guard are you retarded?
Wow have you ever played sports in your life?

Combo guard means hes more of a scorer than a play maker. Which is a fact. Doesn't mean he isn't a willing passing dumbass. :facepalm

[cteach111]

You're insane Chris Paul has never possessed the ability to finish the way Rose does. His body control is atleast a notched below and he doesn't have the strength and athleticism to finish through contact the way Rose does. part of what gave paul avenues to score is his pass first mentality which forced the defense give him space to score so ass to defend the passing lanes. IF paul was more score-first then his driving lanes would bbe smaller and his passing lanes would be wider. His offensive output would be different.

i pretty much summed up most of what you said with calling Rose a freak of nature.

However, the skills aspect still stands. Paul is a bit more skilled than Rose in a few areas imo.

Keep in mind, i'm comparing them at their best.

[tikay0]

Like I said, it depends on what the team needs are. Some teams would be far more successful with a true PG over a guy like Rose. :facepalm

Stop jumping the gun, Rose is the better scorer but CP3 is the better playmaker. SMFH


What are you talking about team needs? Rose fulfills every team's pg needs, and then some. Name 1 team that couldnt use rose, and wouldnt jump up a few seeds with him on the team. Rose is such a dynamic player that he wills trash to win a lot of games they have absolutely no business winning. You put Rose on the wizards right now, they have at least 4-5 more wins. He's the better player,facilitator, on court threat, scorer, 1 man fast break, athlete, threat, etc. Passing is about equal, its only because paul uses unnecessarily flashy passes, that makes it seem like he's such a better passer.

[I.R.Beast]

Rose is a combo guard, that's all I'm saying. Rose doesn't always give you better results, if the team needs more scoring Rose would be the better option. But if the team needs a flat out true PG it would be better to take a guy like CP3, even Rondo...
ROY, MVP, ECF, leagues best Record, Best current Record...... Better Results, Better Player, more dominant, harder to stop. Rose imo has officially seperated himself from other PGs and he isnt even my favorite PG. His freakish abilities, killer instinct, clutch gene, big/tough shot capabilities, scoring abilty and his increased understanding of in game situations easily makes him the best PG in the league. Replace any of these PGs in the league with Rose and their teams are atleast 10 wins better. His impact is that serious. How many other PGs do you see demand the defensive attention that rose Does?

[tikay0]

Like I said, it depends on what the team needs are. Some teams would be far more successful with a true PG over a guy like Rose. :facepalm

Stop jumping the gun, Rose is the better scorer but CP3 is the better playmaker. SMFH


So your telling me, the celtics of the past couple years wouldnt have been as succesful with rose, as they wouldve been with rondo? Get the fugg outta here. Whose your team, the sacramento kings? pooh butt ass.

[JerrySteakhouse]

What are you talking about team needs? Rose fulfills every team's pg needs, and then some. Name 1 team that couldnt use rose, and wouldnt jump up a few seeds with him on the team. Rose is such a dynamic player that he wills trash to win a lot of games they have absolutely no business winning. You put Rose on the wizards right now, they have at least 4-5 more wins. He's the better player,facilitator, on court threat, scorer, 1 man fast break, athlete, threat, etc. Passing is about equal, its only because paul uses unnecessarily flashy passes, that makes it seem like he's such a better passer.
No, Wizards would be almost just as bad. They have no supporting cast. And read what I said, there are other players more suited for certain teams than Rose. You don't always need a superstar in the mix. :facepalm

[JerrySteakhouse]

ROY, MVP, ECF, leagues best Record, Best current Record...... Better Results, Better Player, more dominant, harder to stop. Rose imo has officially seperated himself from other PGs and he isnt even my favorite PG. His freakish abilities, killer instinct, clutch gene, big/tough shot capabilities, scoring abilty and his increased understanding of in game situations easily makes him the best PG in the league. Replace any of these PGs in the league with Rose and their teams are atleast 10 wins better. His impact is that serious. How many other PGs do you see demand the defensive attention that rose Does?
Your missing the argument, you act like Rose can do it all. Yeah, I'm sure he can hit that open 3 point shot all day. :rolleyes:

[tikay0]

Wow have you ever played sports in your life?

Combo guard means hes more of a scorer than a play maker. Which is a fact. Doesn't mean he isn't a willing passing dumbass. :facepalm


Not a single team in the NBA would take cp3 or rondo over rose. What's your angle here? You only like niche players? Like andre miller or something? You were always the unathletic kid that relied on his "IQ"

[cteach111]

i'm probably not being clear on my thoughts about Rose/Paul.

If we want to keep it simple, I think at their best, both have arguments depending on the situation. It's pretty close..

[JerrySteakhouse]

So your telling me, the celtics of the past couple years wouldnt have been as succesful with rose, as they wouldve been with rondo? Get the fugg outta here. Whose your team, the sacramento kings? pooh butt ass.
:wtf:

Rondo was a perfect fit for Boston, don't need Rose on that squad. If you think otherwise you're retarded. Rondo is by far the better passer, no ****ing comparison needed.

[Tenchi Ryu]

How is CP3 better than Rose

Hes a better passer
Hes a smarter player
Hes a better defender
He makes better decisions

The bolded one is the only one that is true. And barely at that. The smarter player is definitely arguable, and could go any way. Rose makes his mistakes, but so does CP3. Defender is always arguable. CP3 might have more steals, but Rose has a better blocking record and keeps his man to a lower FG%. Steals alone does not make a better defender. And Decisions is where I put Rose over Paul. Rose purposely chooses the RIGHT time to activate "takeover" mode. He also knows when his best bet is to let his perimeter aces drop buckets. He can read his team, he KNOWS when they are hot, or when they are cold, which is why his FG% was so low in the ECF.

The biggest reason though is because his teammates trust him enough to let him control them. They literally put the choices they make in his hand. They feed off of him, and depend on him. The reason this is important is because when you replace him with someone like Lucas or Watson, that noticeably changes. Its not the same "sync" when Rose is on the floor. And I don't see that when CP3 is playing.

[JerrySteakhouse]

Not a single team in the NBA would take cp3 or rondo over rose. What's your angle here? You only like niche players? Like andre miller or something? You were always the unathletic kid that relied on his "IQ"

Wtf is that, you're just assuming shit. That isn't true. :facepalm

[juju151111]

No, Wizards would be almost just as bad. They have no supporting cast. And read what I said, there are other players more suited for certain teams than Rose. You don't always need a superstar in the mix. :facepalm
Name the team plz

[I.R.Beast]

Like I said, it depends on what the team needs are. Some teams would be far more successful with a true PG over a guy like Rose. :facepalm

Stop jumping the gun, Rose is the better scorer but CP3 is the better playmaker. SMFH
really?....Please find me the teams that needs a true PG more than a Rose type PG?....

[tikay0]

No, Wizards would be almost just as bad. They have no supporting cast. And read what I said, there are other players more suited for certain teams than Rose. You don't always need a superstar in the mix. :facepalm


I agree that their trash. Did you not understand me when i said he alone can improve that team by 4-5 wins. He would feast on a team like that. Athletic wings that love to shoot, put that along side rose, and you got yourself a deadly offense. He has the shaq effect, except he dominates in his own way. Do not ask me if i just compared rose to shaq because i didnt. I said he has that type of effect.

[juju151111]

:wtf:

Rondo was a perfect fit for Boston, don't need Rose on that squad. If you think otherwise you're retarded. Rondo is by far the better passer, no ****ing comparison needed.
Rose better jumpshooter. The Lakers can't exploit him like they did Rondo in 10 finals. Boston wins try again

[I.R.Beast]

:wtf:

Rondo was a perfect fit for Boston, don't need Rose on that squad. If you think otherwise you're retarded. Rondo is by far the better passer, no ****ing comparison needed.

You fool?...u do realize that every year Rondo assists have went up our Offense has become more stagnat right?....and look at My Celtics now. If we had Rose instead of Rondo We'd be Champs....Can you imagine that heat Celtics Series last year with Rose in place of Rondo?....come on you must be high...Under no circumstance is rondo a better fit than Rose on a team. Rondo is a PG that NEEDS 2-3 talented offensive players to be successful because he cannot carry a team offensively.

[JerrySteakhouse]

Hes a better passer
Hes a smarter player
Hes a better defender
He makes better decisions

The bolded one is the only one that is true. And barely at that. The smarter player is definitely arguable, and could go any way. Rose makes his mistakes, but so does CP3. Defender is always arguable. CP3 might have more steals, but Rose has a better blocking record and keeps his man to a lower FG%. Steals alone does not make a better defender. And Decisions is where I put Rose over Paul. Rose purposely chooses the RIGHT time to activate "takeover" mode. He also knows when his best bet is to let his perimeter aces drop buckets. He can read his team, he KNOWS when they are hot, or when they are cold, which is why his FG% was so low in the ECF.

The biggest reason though is because his teammates trust him enough to let him control them. They literally put the choices they make in his hand. They feed off of him, and depend on him. The reason this is important is because when you replace him with someone like Lucas or Watson, that noticeably changes. Its not the same "sync" when Rose is on the floor. And I don't see that when CP3 is playing.

Proof for 1st bold?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: @ 2nd bold :lol :lol :lol gtfo... I'm done hahahahahahah

Rose's teammates aren't ball demanding players, they obviously have to trust their PG to make plays for them. That isn't the case for CP3 because the Clippers got better players that need the ball to score (not all the time but more than the Bull's players).

[tikay0]

Wtf is that, you're just assuming shit. That isn't true. :facepalm

Not a single team in the NBA would take cp3/rondo over rose. You can take that to the bank. Fugg norris cole.

[JerrySteakhouse]

You fool?...u do realize that every year Rondo assists have went up our Offense has become more stagnat right?....and look at My Celtics now. If we had Rose instead of Rondo We'd be Champs....Can you imagine that heat Celtics Series last year with Rose in pla of Rondo?....come on you must be high...Under no circumstance is rondo a better fit than Rose on a team. Rondo is a OG that NEEDS 2-3 talented offensive players to be successful because he cannot carry a team offensively.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
You really think Celtics would thrive with Rose as their playmaker? GTFO :lol

[JerrySteakhouse]

Rose better jumpshooter. The Lakers can't exploit him like they did Rondo in 10 finals. Boston wins try again

That is Rose's edge on Rondo. But Rondo is the smarter player, better defender and better play maker. You can't just assume they'd be in the same position with Rose... :facepalm

[tikay0]

Proof for 1st bold?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: @ 2nd bold :lol :lol :lol gtfo... I'm done hahahahahahah

Rose's teammates aren't ball demanding players, they obviously have to trust their PG to make plays for them. That isn't the case for CP3 because the Clippers got better players that need the ball to score (not all the time but more than the Bull's players).

exactly norris cole's nephew. If Rose was on that team, they would be DYNOOOMITE! Can you even fathom a world that is fair with a team consisting of derrick poohdini rose and blake earthquake griffin? Is that even fair to the opposing team's psyche!?

[JerrySteakhouse]

Not a single team in the NBA would take cp3/rondo over rose. You can take that to the bank. Fugg norris cole.
You believe that kid. You clearly haven't coached or played basketball at a high level to even understand the game. You are a fan, stick to it.

[JerrySteakhouse]

exactly norris cole's nephew. If Rose was on that team, they would be DYNOOOMITE! Can you even fathom a world that is fair with a team consisting of derrick poohdini rose and blake earthquake griffin? Is that even fair to the opposing team's psyche!?

That's what they said about Bron and Wade. :lol

[tikay0]

That is Rose's edge on Rondo. But Rondo is the smarter player, better defender and better play maker. You can't just assume they'd be in the same position with Rose... :facepalm


And this myth that rondo is a better defender than rose it the most annoying. Have you seen rose's man to man defense this year? It's 1st/2nd team defense material. I can, with a straight face say he is top 2 defensive pg in the game today. Name 1, even 1 pg that went off on him. Name 1.

[I.R.Beast]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
You really think Celtics would thrive with Rose as their playmaker? GTFO :lol
he took lesser players to the ECF.....i dont see how that is funny.... You obviously have an agenda. You're a fool if you think replacing Rondo with Rose would not make the Celtics better...

[I.R.Beast]

And this myth that rondo is a better defender than rose it the most annoying. Have you seen rose's man to man defense this year? It's 1st/2nd team defense material. I can, with a straight face say he is top 2 defensive pg in the game today. Name 1, even 1 pg that went off on him. Name 1.
Rondo's defense has been overrated since we won it all...Rondo has nt been at that level defensively since we've turned over the Offense to him. He gambles to much for steals.

[tikay0]

You believe that kid. You clearly haven't coached or played basketball at a high level to even understand the game. You are a fan, stick to it.


Your posting on an nba message board, trying to belittle rose's "true pg" game. If your such an experienced basketball officianado and cant see how rose is the best pg, then jsut stop breathing kid.

[JerrySteakhouse]

And this myth that rondo is a better defender than rose it the most annoying. Have you seen rose's man to man defense this year? It's 1st/2nd team defense material. I can, with a straight face say he is top 2 defensive pg in the game today. Name 1, even 1 pg that went off on him. Name 1.
You see the game one way. You have to understand most PGs aren't scorers so saying "not 1 pg went off on him" isn't sufficient. And I don't give a flying f*ck what you can say with a straight face.

You act like I'm saying Rose isn't shit. Rose is amazing but you are acting like hes the second coming of Jesus. He must be humbled down with the praise you dudes give him.

[tikay0]

Rondo's defense has been overrated since we won it all...Rondo has nt been at that level defensively since we've turned over the Offense to him. He gambles to much for steals.


truer words have never been spoken. :applause:

[juju151111]

That is Rose's edge on Rondo. But Rondo is the smarter player, better defender and better play maker. You can't just assume they'd be in the same position with Rose... :facepalm
Lmao Rose with all of Rondo help before they got old. Lmao You would have a lineup of Rose,Allen,Pp,KG,Perkins. KG/Perkins finish at the rim unlike Noah/Boozer with simple pathos/dunks. Allen>>>>>>shit>>>>>>Bogans Lmao how would teams stop them on offense? Let's sag off Rose oh wait lol. Rose is one of the best man defender at his position nd has showed he can play on a great defensive team. Avges most blocks among PG's. Lol at Derek ****ing Fisher guarding Rose. Stay off that pipe son. Boston with Rose would dominate.

[JerrySteakhouse]

Your posting on an nba message board, trying to belittle rose's "true pg" game. If your such an experienced basketball officianado and cant see how rose is the best pg, then jsut stop breathing kid.
Your posts make me laugh. :lol

We never discussed who the best PG is. And I don't care to argue that because thats childish. There are many PGs with different skills, I would take different PGs every time depending on the roster. You clearly would only take Rose regardless. :lol

[tikay0]

You see the game one way. You have to understand most PGs aren't scorers so saying "not 1 pg went off on him" isn't sufficient. And I don't give a flying f*ck what you can say with a straight face.

You act like I'm saying Rose isn't shit. Rose is amazing but you are acting like hes the second coming of Jesus. He must be humbled down with the praise you dudes give him.


I didnt mean that was the end all be all to his defense. Im saying that is a pretty good indicator of his defense this year. If youve watched every game of the bulls this year, and even watched some twice, you would know d-rose has been ALL NBA defense this year at the pg spot. Norris cole is pooh butt.

[juju151111]

You believe that kid. You clearly haven't coached or played basketball at a high level to even understand the game. You are a fan, stick to it.
You still have not name the teams yet.

[I.R.Beast]

You still have not name the teams yet.
i am still waiting on these teams too.... LMAO my list thus far is empty

[JerrySteakhouse]

he took lesser players to the ECF.....i dont see how that is funny.... You obviously have an agenda. You're a fool if you think replacing Rondo with Rose would not make the Celtics better...
Again you fail to realize the concept of it being a team game. The Bulls roster is better built for Rose and the Celtics roster (last year's & the year before) was better built for Rondo. I agree, Rose carried a decent team deep in the playoffs. He did his thing, not taking anything away from him. It's the same shit we saw with Lebron in Cleveland, horrible roster but he took them deep.

[tikay0]

Your posts make me laugh. :lol

We never discussed who the best PG is. And I don't care to argue that because thats childish. There are many PGs with different skills, I would take different PGs every time depending on the roster. You clearly would only take Rose regardless. :lol


That's like saying i would take kevin martin in this sitation over MJ, becasue that certain situation calls for it. You dont get the main point, the better player is the better player. You take him no matter what. Learn the game kid. Get rid of that ugly ass norris cole av. That ish is annoying.

[JerrySteakhouse]

Lmao Rose with all of Rondo help before they got old. Lmao You would have a lineup of Rose,Allen,Pp,KG,Perkins. KG/Perkins finish at the rim unlike Noah/Boozer with simple pathos/dunks. Allen>>>>>>shit>>>>>>Bogans Lmao how would teams stop them on offense? Let's sag off Rose oh wait lol. Rose is one of the best man defender at his position nd has showed he can play on a great defensive team. Avges most blocks among PG's. Lol at Derek ****ing Fisher guarding Rose. Stay off that pipe son. Boston with Rose would dominate.

:lol Looks good on paper, so does Miami. :facepalm

[juju151111]

Again you fail to realize the concept of it being a team game. The Bulls roster is better built for Rose and the Celtics roster (last year's & the year before) was better built for Rondo. I agree, Rose carried a decent team deep in the playoffs. He did his thing, not taking anything away from him. It's the same shit we saw with Lebron in Cleveland, horrible roster but he took them deep.
No its not buildfor Rondo. They didn't put the big 3 together thinking about Rondo. Stop your BS. You still have yet to explain how its a better fit for Rondo when Ross completly wipes away their offensive weakness with added scoring.

[I.R.Beast]

Again you fail to realize the concept of it being a team game. The Bulls roster is better built for Rose and the Celtics roster (last year's & the year before) was better built for Rondo. I agree, Rose carried a decent team deep in the playoffs. He did his thing, not taking anything away from him. It's the same shit we saw with Lebron in Cleveland, horrible roster but he took them deep.


BS.....CELTICS = champions had Rose been in place of Rondo....

[JerrySteakhouse]

That's like saying i would take kevin martin in this sitation over MJ, becasue that certain situation calls for it. You dont get the main point, the better player is the better player. You take him no matter what. Learn the game kid. Get rid of that ugly ass norris cole av. That ish is annoying.
Not true, I only say that because both players are amazing and one is only slightly better than the other in certain cats.

Based on team needs I'd take the better fit. I'm not saying I'd take CP3/Rondo more than Rose. Just saying I wouldn't take Rose 30 outta 30 times like you guys. :facepalm

[juju151111]

:lol Looks good on paper, so does Miami. :facepalm
Miami went to the Finals retard and Loss because LJ choked.

[JerrySteakhouse]

No its not buildfor Rondo. They didn't put the big 3 together thinking about Rondo. Stop your BS. You still have yet to explain how its a better fit for Rondo when Ross completly wipes away their offensive weakness with added scoring.
I've said it countless times. Rondo's playmaking ability > Rose. Rondo is the smarter player too, the system worked perfectly for Rondo. It wasn't intentionally built for him but he was the perfect fit. And if you knew ANYTHING about the Celtics they knew Rondo was a true PG and they made sure he wasn't part of the KG deal. I know that for a fact, I followed the Celtics when they were a scrub team better than anyone.

[juju151111]

Not true, I only say that because both players are amazing and one is only slightly better than the other in certain cats.

Based on team needs I'd take the better fit. I'm not saying I'd take CP3/Rondo more than Rose. Just saying I wouldn't take Rose 30 outta 30 times like you guys. :facepalm
I would take Magic 30 out of 30 times. Just give me one good example plz

[I.R.Beast]

No its not buildfor Rondo. They didn't put the big 3 together thinking about Rondo. Stop your BS. You still have yet to explain how its a better fit for Rondo when Ross completly wipes away their offensive weakness with added scoring.

....Because doing nothing butt passing mmakes teams better, his 3 Extra assists per game mean more than the 14 point Difference in PPG that Rose would provide, because his assist numbers from the PG is what makes teams win despite history of champions indicative of the opposite.

[JerrySteakhouse]

Miami went to the Finals retard and Loss because LJ choked.
You are really one of the dumbest kids on this board. Stick to sucking Rose's dick because you clearly don't understand the game. Your logic is so flawed and weak. :facepalm

[JerrySteakhouse]

....Because doing nothing butt passing mmakes teams better, his 3 Extra assists per game mean more than the 14 point Difference in PPG that Rose would provide, because his assist numbers from the PG is what makes teams win despite history of champions indicative of the opposite.
So sad, you really gotta look at stats? Stat geeks don't understand the game..

[tikay0]

You are really one of the dumbest kids on this board. Stick to sucking Rose's dick because you clearly don't understand the game. Your logic is so flawed and weak. :facepalm

ok, lets take the clippers win over miami for example. I didnt see paul dish it off to butler and assist him to shaking lebron and hitting those tough jumpers. I didnt see paul use his "other worldy passing" to hit those jumpers he had to take, because he had to take over at that point. At the end of the day you have to take over the game for your team, and rose does that better than any pg in the NBA, D-league, China, NCAA, etc. sit down norris cole grand son.

[I.R.Beast]

I've said it countless times. Rondo's playmaking ability > Rose. Rondo is the smarter player too, the system worked perfectly for Rondo. It wasn't intentionally built for him but he was the perfect fit. And if you knew ANYTHING about the Celtics they knew Rondo was a true PG and they made sure he wasn't part of the KG deal. I know that for a fact, I followed the Celtics when they were a scrub team better than anyone.
perfectly for Rondo's individual assists totals, but not for our offense. Our offense had a high tendency of becoming stagnant. We were among league leaders in turnovers, and our offensive numbers have declined as his his APG went up.. Know why?..because high assists numbers by 1 player is indicative of POOR ball movement. Part of the reason our offense had the tendency to become stagnant, Rondo too often is passive and doesnt attack, passes up open/good shots waiting for a play to develop etc. You obviously dont watch celtic games

[tikay0]

So sad, you really gotta look at stats? Stat geeks don't understand the game..


this just confirms your a troll, your basis was off stats with the rose vs paul theory. You said he was better in certain categories, but how can you tell without stats. HMMM....maybe by watching them both play. Your obviously trying to paint a picture of rose that was true of him last year, due to the team's need. But this year, he has far and away proven he is the best PG in the league. Norris cole really sucks.

[juju151111]

I've said it countless times. Rondo's playmaking ability > Rose. Rondo is the smarter player too, the system worked perfectly for Rondo. It wasn't intentionally built for him but he was the perfect fit. And if you knew ANYTHING about the Celtics they knew Rondo was a true PG and they made sure he wasn't part of the KG deal. I know that for a fact, I followed the Celtics when they were a scrub team better than anyone.
Rondo playmaking abilities? Why are you acting like Rose can't pass. I am sure with Ray allen,PP, and KG Rose would pass more and get rewarded. Rose only takes shots because of team needs. Which is why he cut back this season. The coaches tell him to shoot more so he does. He says it in plenty interviews. What's your point anyways? Rose on Boston still dominates the shit out of the League. I don't see a weakness people could exploit.

[JerrySteakhouse]

ok, lets take the clippers win over miami for example. I didnt see paul dish it off to butler and assist him to shaking lebron and hitting those tough jumpers. I didnt see paul use his "other worldy passing" to hit those jumpers he had to take, because he had to take over at that point. At the end of the day you have to take over the game for your team, and rose does that better than any pg in the NBA, D-league, China, NCAA, etc. sit down norris cole grand son.
Whole point of play making is to make the shot easy. CP3 did his job, not sure what you're talking about... And yes, CP3 has the ability to take over games as well, not as good as Rose but he can do it. CP3 having better playmaking skills doesn't mean he has to dish it every time.

Stop hating on Norris Cole brah. :lol

[juju151111]

You are really one of the dumbest kids on this board. Stick to sucking Rose's dick because you clearly don't understand the game. Your logic is so flawed and weak. :facepalm
You brought them up dumbass. They only lost because LJ is weakminded not because they didnt have a good team.

[tikay0]

cp3
billups
butler
blake griffin
deandre jordan

rose
brewer (hamilton has missed almost every fuggin game)
deng
boooooooozer
no! ah

bulls: 12-3
clippers: 7-3

/thread

[JerrySteakhouse]

this just confirms your a troll, your basis was off stats with the rose vs paul theory. You said he was better in certain categories, but how can you tell without stats. HMMM....maybe by watching them both play. Your obviously trying to paint a picture of rose that was true of him last year, due to the team's need. But this year, he has far and away proven he is the best PG in the league. Norris cole really sucks.

Wow, this post will end my night. Pure idiocy here.

When I say cats I mean as in (Better passer/defender/scorer/bball IQ, etc)

And for the last time, when did I say Rose was NOT the best PG in the game??? All I said he wasn't the best TRUE pg, when I say TRUE pg I mean as a play maker.

[juju151111]

Whole point of play making is to make the shot easy. CP3 did his job, not sure what you're talking about... And yes, CP3 has the ability to take over games as well, not as good as Rose but he can do it. CP3 having better playmaking skills doesn't mean he has to dish it every time.

Stop hating on Norris Cole brah. :lol
Just name a team and give a good reason. This .should be simple for you since Rose isnt a true PG

[tikay0]

Wow, this post will end my night. Pure idiocy here.

When I say cats I mean as in (Better passer/defender/scorer/bball IQ, etc)

And for the last time, when did I say PG was NOT the best PG in the game??? All I said he wasn't the best TRUE pg, when I say TRUE pg I mean as a play maker.


The diff. in their playmaking ability is the diff. between how barkley used to dunk the ball and how blake griffin dunks the ball. Simmer on that thought.

[tikay0]

Wow, this post will end my night. Pure idiocy here.

When I say cats I mean as in (Better passer/defender/scorer/bball IQ, etc)

And for the last time, when did I say PG was NOT the best PG in the game??? All I said he wasn't the best TRUE pg, when I say TRUE pg I mean as a play maker.


Oh snap, i forgot to reply to your defender statement. Are you on drugs kid? Rose has clearly show this year he is the better defender. Did you see the 4th quarter of the bulls-clippers game. When paul was using all those fancy dribble moves and it ended up going no where, cause rose was on him like glue. Norris cole is an abomination to the league.

[I.R.Beast]

Just name a team and give a good reason. This .should be simple for you since Rose isnt a true PG
Lol......"true pg"....i cringe everytime i hear the phrase.... as is playmaking is only passing the ball.

[JerrySteakhouse]

Ok Ladies it's been fun (not really), tired as shit. You guys killed like 2 hours of my life...

This thread just reminds me of...

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

Night ladies, don't take it personal.

[JerrySteakhouse]

Just for you tikay0

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Norris-Cole2.jpg

[tikay0]

Lol......"true pg"....i cringe everytime i hear the phrase.... as is playmaking is only passing the ball.


he thinks because paul passes the ball with a fancy top spin to it, that it is a more effective pass then finding the open man, and making the right choice, to earn your team 2-3 pts. "Omfg, paul just passed to the guy using the rucker park shuffle, that is true play making marv!"

[tikay0]

Just for you tikay0

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Norris-Cole2.jpg

got damn i suck at computers. I wanted to post a cool pic of the bulls, in a reservoir dogs theme, but i cant! i fail. but oh well, catch u on the flip.

[I.R.Beast]

he thinks because paul passes the ball with a fancy top spin to it, that it is a more effective pass then finding the open man, and making the right choice, to earn your team 2-3 pts. "Omfg, paul just passed to the guy using the rucker park shuffle, that is true play making marv!"
Lob City!!!

[ballinhun8]

Jerry steakhouse




Just your average Celtics, Heat, Pats, Yankees, and Cowboys fan.

[themurph]

When u are a point guard it's about assist u f*cking moron. That's why Nash & Magic are GOAT.

Please don't place Nash next to Magic....I dig Nash just like any basketball fan...But he's not in Magic class...

And he's ringless just like all of the younger PG's (Rose, CP3, D-Wills, ect...) PG's out there now...

Slow down...

[arkain]

As far as decision making goes, I think Rondo is the best at that. Not saying he's the best PG, but I feel he's the best decision maker at that position.

[RRR3]

CP3>Rose. "B-b-b-b-b-b-but Rose scores more and is more athletic!!!!". GTFO CP3 can score a lot when he wants to, you all know it too

[demons2005]

What on earth planet are these rose-haters coming from? Rose is pretty much all you can ask for in a PG: a player who makes the decisions that win games time and time again. You can take your fancy dribble and passes to the Harlem globe trotters but the NBA is and always will be about winning and we all know which PG does that best

[Fatstogie]

D-rose >>>>>> CP3 sorry to say friend.
wrong. absolutely wrong.

Drose better at attacking the rim? absolutely.

Better PG? No way.


Can he be later? Sure. But Drose is a scorer. Paul is more of a prober. Rose has to get into that mentality of how to make a shot. Rose will drive and if hes open score, if not hell pass.


Cp3 approaches every possession looking for the easiest basket. The shit rose does isnt easy. That being said if he would take the easy way he could improve. Rose is more of an "its on my shoulders i gotta score."

And cp3 is more of a true PG whos first thought is to run the team. To make sure those who are hot get the ball. To get others shots.

Rose is getting better sure, and learning. But that sorta floor general shit that cp3 does is an inherent talent that some cannot be taught.
Can Rose learn it? Sure. But that doesnt mean everyone does. And not to the level of a Cp3,Nash,Dwill. Because these things are not neccissariy easy to teach. But Drose, as amazing as he is, is humble and recognizes he has much to learn, and wants to.

One thing cp3 does is try ot get shots to those who havent had the ball. This makes those lesser guys, play d harder cause they are finally getting a couple points. Cp3 has much more effect on the players of his team, and recognition of that role.

Rose is never looking to get Noah baskets. Cp3 would. Rose will hit him if hes open, but he never starts a possession thinking "i need to get noah a shot cause he hasnt had a single shot in 15 min, he'll player harder D if i can get him a couple buckets."
Even though noah is a horrible offensive player, cp3 would make sure he got points.

Cp3 creates stats for his teammates.


Rose is thinking "whos open."
Cp3 is thinking "who can i make open."

[RRR3]

What on earth planet are these rose-haters coming from? Rose is pretty much all you can ask for in a PG: a player who makes the decisions that win games time and time again. You can take your fancy dribble and passes to the Harlem globe trotters but the NBA is and always will be about winning and we all know which PG does that best
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0703/la_a_fisher_b1_576.jpg

[The_Yearning]

CP3>Rose. "B-b-b-b-b-b-but Rose scores more and is more athletic!!!!". GTFO CP3 can score a lot when he wants to, you all know it too

What happened when the Clips played the Bulls?

Pleeze remind me.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Can he be later? Sure. But Drose is a scorer. Paul is more of a prober. Rose has to get into that mentality of how to make a shot. Rose will drive and if hes open score, if not hell pass.


Cp3 approaches every possession looking for the easiest basket. The shit rose does isnt easy. That being said if he would take the easy way he could improve. Rose is more of an "its on my shoulders i gotta score."

And cp3 is more of a true PG whos first thought is to run the team. To make sure those who are hot get the ball. To get others shots.

Rose is getting better sure, and learning. But that sorta floor general shit that cp3 does is an inherent talent that some cannot be taught.
Can Rose learn it? Sure. But that doesnt mean everyone does. And not to the level of a Cp3,Nash,Dwill. Because these things are not neccissariy easy to teach. But Drose, as amazing as he is, is humble and recognizes he has much to learn, and wants to.

One thing cp3 does is try ot get shots to those who havent had the ball. This makes those lesser guys, play d harder cause they are finally getting a couple points. Cp3 has much more effect on the players of his team, and recognition of that role.

Rose is never looking to get Noah baskets. Cp3 would. Rose will hit him if hes open, but he never starts a possession thinking "i need to get noah a shot cause he hasnt had a single shot in 15 min, he'll player harder D if i can get him a couple buckets."
Even though noah is a horrible offensive player, cp3 would make sure he got points.

Cp3 creates stats for his teammates.


Rose is thinking "whos open."
Cp3 is thinking "who can i make open."

Rose does not think "who's open", he CREATES shots for his teammates, using himself as a decoy at times. This is where Rose's IQ comes into play. He can read that teams try to double team him. With this, he purposely sets up the man he wants to make the shot. You must not look at Bulls games this year, Rose spends the entire first 3 quarters getting his Teammates shots. He ONLY takes over in the 4th quarter.

Of Course Rose doesn't get Noah shots, that's not his job on the team. Noah is here for his hustle on Defense, and getting the Defensive boards. So CP3 trying to get Noah looks is already a bad move if he was here. Its like every time someone claims Rose is not at a certain level, they compare him from last year, completely ignoring all the work he has put into his game this summer, and all the COMPLETELY visible changes. Your entire argument, I would agree 100% if this was LAST YEAR. But a new year, this is a completely new Rose. During the Clippers game, not only was his number of points high, it was one of his best assists of the season. But too much focus on assist here is being brought up in this thread anyway.

This "True PG" crap is ridiculous. And its the reason I posted the statement in my first post.

"In order to be a good point guard, its not about points, its not about assist. Its all about making the right decisions."

Going by this, D-Rose is DEFINITELY #1 PG in this league.

[Alamo]

What happened when the Clips played the Bulls?

Pleeze remind me.

:applause:

[FireDavidKahn]

"In order to be a good point guard, its not about points, its not about assist. Its all about making the right decisions."

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
This is why Rubio is already making such a gigantic impact on our team when he is on the floor versus when he is off.

When Rubio is on the floor:

Offense: 108.4 points per 100 possessions
Defense: 98.4 points per 100 possessions

When Rubio is off the floor:

Offense: 96.2 points per 100 possessions
Defense: 108.9 points per 100 possessions

If that isn't making an impact then IDK what making an impact is.

[LA_Showtime]

"Hakeem didn't have help around him. Right Kenny?"

I love how Kenny and Shaq keep trying to one up each other. I don't know if it's personal or they're just kidding around, but it's awkward and hilarious at the same time.

[bizil]

I agree with what Kenny says. I think PG's with lower assist averages than what u would think like Clyde Frazier were capable of WAY higher assists season assist totals. But if u are a student of the game, u know Clyde was an ultimate floor general and was a master at making the correct play. That Knicks team was as cerebral as one gets, so I'm sure there was a lot of dimes Clyde could have had, but those potential dimes were followed by another great pass.

However, I do feel assists numbers does have to play a key component to an extent at PG. It's no secret than guys with huge assists numbers like Magic, Stock, Kidd, Isiah, Big O, and Nash are usually regarded as the best passers ever. It's because they are so damn good at it they see a play before it happens. A good passer sees a play as it happens. A great one sees it before it happens and are always playing chess while others are playing checkers.

U have guys who play PG like Rose and Westbrook who are great players. However, they aren't on the level of Paul, Rondo, Nash, and DWill in terms of being a floor general. It's more about how u see the game as opposed to Rose (who I feel is firmly ahead of Westbrook in this aspect) and Westbrook being selfish. They are insanely talented guards in that 6'2 to 6'3 area that are very good floor generals and passers. However they are great scorers and athletes. That is their biggest strength.

AI was similar to this but smaller. Larry Brown switched him to SG and the rest is history. AI could have be a great PG. But his greatness would have been as a very good passer and a great scorer. I feel the best PG's of all time (other than Stockton, Kidd, or a Cousy) are great passers and great scorers all in one.

[Kiarip]

Kenny Smith has never ever said an intelligent thing about basketball on TV... EVER.

And this isn't an exception...

Of course it's about making the right decisions... It's ALWAYS about making the right decisions regardless of what position you play that's HOW you get points/rebounds/steals/assists/blocks...

At least he's upgraded to being able to state the obvious.

[Rowe]

What happened when the Clips played the Bulls?

Pleeze remind me.

CP3 was playing in like his 3rd game with the Clippers.

:roll: :roll:

Bulls had 1 new player on the team in Rip while LA was trying to find chemistry with 8 new players there.

A 1 on 1 matchup either way doesn't prove shit about "Who is the better PG".

The proof is observed game in and out and CP3 holds the edge over Rose in that aspect of being a better PG. Rose may be the better overall player for his scoring impact, but CP3 is the better all around player and PG.

[Kiarip]

CP3 was playing in like his 3rd game with the Clippers.

:roll: :roll:

Bulls had 1 new player on the team in Rip while LA was trying to find chemistry with 8 new players there.

A 1 on 1 matchup either way doesn't prove shit about "Who is the better PG".

The proof is observed game in and out and CP3 holds the edge over Rose in that aspect of being a better PG. Rose may be the better overall player for his scoring impact, but CP3 is the better all around player and PG.

Rose is a better player to have at point guard than CP3, he plays better defense, and can shoulder a bigger scoring load than Paul...

[Tenchi Ryu]

Who is the best point guard in the NBA?

1. Derrick Rose, Chicago -- 59.3%
2. Chris Paul, L.A. Clippers -- 37.0%
3. Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City -- 3.7%

http://www.nba.com/news/features/2012-gm-survey/index.html

Smart GMs

[stephanieg]

Kenny knew the most important decision for an NBA player to make for himself: more shots more $$$.

[bizil]

CP3 was playing in like his 3rd game with the Clippers.

:roll: :roll:

Bulls had 1 new player on the team in Rip while LA was trying to find chemistry with 8 new players there.

A 1 on 1 matchup either way doesn't prove shit about "Who is the better PG".

The proof is observed game in and out and CP3 holds the edge over Rose in that aspect of being a better PG. Rose may be the better overall player for his scoring impact, but CP3 is the better all around player and PG.

Great point! Overall, Rose may be the better player because ultimately the better player is ALWAYS determined by impact. But Paul I feel is a better all around player cause he's a better passer, can score almost as good, and is a better defender. At PG, their is a premium for passing and making others better. Paul has a clear edge on Rose in this aspect. It's a bigger gap floor general wise between Paul and Rose than there is scoring the rock.

Paul and Rose are both capable of alpha dog scoring. It's apparent to everybody that Rose has the alpha dog scoring shit. But students of the game know Paul does too. But he's a true floor general and great passer at heart. Who looks to fufill those duties first of most importantly. Rose sees the game different at this point. Rose isn't selfish and is truly a great player. If were are judging by combo guard or SG shit, Rose would be the better player for that. But we are talking PG's, and Paul is flat out a better PG. Cause he can give u almost the same level of scoring, but is clearly on another level in terms of dimes or floor general shit.

And let's remember better all around doesn't mean the better player in all cases. That's why Rose in my book can be considered the better player. Cause their is a premium for alpha dog scorers AT ANY POSITION, maybe not so much at PG though, but it's still premium somewhat. In terms of dimes or being a floor general, that is only a premium at one position and that's PG.

[Rowe]

Who is the best point guard in the NBA?

1. Derrick Rose, Chicago -- 59.3%
2. Chris Paul, L.A. Clippers -- 37.0%
3. Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City -- 3.7%

http://www.nba.com/news/features/2012-gm-survey/index.html

Smart GMs

I guarantee the 37% who voted for CP3 are Playoff teams.

[Tenchi Ryu]

I guarantee the 37% who voted for CP3 are Playoff teams.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Rowe]

Rose is a better player to have at point guard than CP3, he plays better defense, and can shoulder a bigger scoring load than Paul...
Agreed.

However, CP3 is the better Point Guard.

Im not sure why Bulls fans spent 9 pages arguing that as if they can't get it through their head.

[Rowe]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Why you so defensive?

Damn. What the ****.:oldlol:

[Tenchi Ryu]

Why you so defensive?

Damn. What the ****.:oldlol:
How am I defensive?

60% of the GMs agree with me...This lets me know I'm on to something.

[I.R.Beast]

Great point! Overall, Rose may be the better player because ultimately the better player is ALWAYS determined by impact. But Paul I feel is a better all around player cause he's a better passer, can score almost as good, and is a better defender. At PG, their is a premium for passing and making others better. Paul has a clear edge on Rose in this aspect. It's a bigger gap floor general wise between Paul and Rose than there is scoring the rock.

Paul and Rose are both capable of alpha dog scoring. It's apparent to everybody that Rose has the alpha dog scoring shit. But students of the game know Paul does too. But he's a true floor general and great passer at heart. Who looks to fufill those duties first of most importantly. Rose sees the game different at this point. Rose isn't selfish and is truly a great player. If were are judging by combo guard or SG shit, Rose would be the better player for that. But we are talking PG's, and Paul is flat out a better PG. Cause he can give u almost the same level of scoring, but is clearly on another level in terms of dimes or floor general shit.

And let's remember better all around doesn't mean the better player in all cases. That's why Rose in my book can be considered the better player. Cause their is a premium for alpha dog scorers AT ANY POSITION, maybe not so much at PG though, but it's still premium somewhat. In terms of dimes or being a floor general, that is only a premium at one position and that's PG.

Sine hwen has paul's name ever been synonymous with defense?....He's not a good defender,, he gambles for steals TOO much and his on ball defense is not worth mentioning. Derrick Rose is easily a better on ball defender than Paul, especially this year. Paul scoring almost just as good as rose is just comical. Call me when paul can do his scoring thing consistently without all the screens and in the traffic that rose does when he makes it to the rim. Paul's scoring avenues are made by his passing threat which gives more space to score. Rose scoring lanes are smaller because of his scoring threat which makes his passing lanes wider. learn the game.

[Kiarip]

Agreed.

However, CP3 is the better Point Guard.

Im not sure why Bulls fans spent 9 pages arguing that as if they can't get it through their head.
...

No he's not a better point guard. He's a worse player to play at point guard than Rose.

[I.R.Beast]

I guarantee the 37% who voted for CP3 are Playoff teams.
You do realize that 80% of the teams that make the playoffs aren't teams offensively ran by "true pgs" right? Once again another "True PG" advocate that doesnt know the history of this league..... True PG are overrated and overvalued their is quite simply no evidence that points to true PGs being better for team success. Look at the playoff teams year in and year out How many of them are ran by pass first PGs. Ball movement is/was always more important than a "true pg". Give me a scoring PG that is unselfish enough to pass any day if the week, because at the end of the day it's the teams that exhibit the best ball ovement as a unit that have the most success. anothe rMYTH debunked

[Rowe]

How am I defensive?

60% of the GMs agree with me...This lets me know I'm on to something.
You're entitled to your own opinion bruh.

Im just saying Chris Paul is the better PG.

Rose can become the better PG, but he isn't right now.

When your argument is a sample of 7 or 8 games hes played so far this season then that isn't enough. If he keeps that up all year, then we can come back next season to discuss it again.

Until then I'm judging Rose off of his career up to now compared to CP3.

We can re-visit this argument at the end of this season.

[Rowe]

...

No he's not a better point guard. He's a worse player to play at point guard than Rose.
Agreed.

However, CP3 is the better Point Guard.

[Rowe]

You do realize that 80% of the teams that make the playoffs aren't teams offensively ran by "true pgs" right? Once again another "True PG" advocate that doesnt know the history of this league..... True PG are overrated and overvalued their is quite simply no evidence that points to true PGs being better for team success. Look at the playoff teams year in and year out How many of them are ran by pass first PGs. Ball movement is/was always more important than a "true pg". Give me a scoring PG that is unselfish enough to pass any day if the week, because at the end of the day it's the teams that exhibit the best ball ovement as a unit that have the most success. anothe rMYTH debunked
Irrelevant.

You're confusing a "True PG" with a "Pass First PG"

Chris Paul isn't a "Pass First PG" which is what you're referencing throughout your post.

That describes a Mark Jackson or Rajon Rondo who look to dish the ball exclusively.

Look at CP3's career numbers & then look at the numbers of the players who he played with and then come back to the argument.

[bizil]

Irrelevant.

You're confusing a "True PG" with a "Pass First PG"

Chris Paul isn't a "Pass First PG" which is what you're referencing throughout your post.

That describes a Mark Jackson or Rajon Rondo who look to dish the ball exclusively.

Look at CP3's career numbers & then look at the numbers of the players who he played with and then come back to the argument.

Right on the money! Guys like Stockton, Cousy, Rondo, Kidd, Mark Jackson, Mo Cheeks, etc. are pass first PG's. Meaning they are technicians and masters at running a team and dropping dimes. Guys like CP3, Isiah, D Will, Magic, Nash, Tiny, etc. do that AND are capable of being alpha dog type scorers at the drop of a hat. So CP3 is indeed a TRUE PG because he fufills the premium PG duties as good as anybody. But he also has that alpha dog in him where he can score as good or damn close on the level of the premier scorers in the L if needed or when he damn chooses. Just becasue a PG scores well DOESN'T MEAN HE ISN'T A TRUE PG. Even though Magic was 6'9 225 pounds, he was born to play PG. He was just blessed to have the size to play any position. And Magic could score the ball as good as damn near anybody when he chose or needed too. That's why if u look at the list of top 10 GOAT PG's, 70% of the list are PG's that are great passers AND have alpha dog scoring in them:

Magic
Big O
Isiah
Frazier
Stockton
Kidd
Nash
Payton
Cousy
Tiny

Other than Cousy, Stockton, and Kidd, the other PG's could carry the scoring load as well. People sleep on Nash, but Nash has an alpha dog type mode.

[bizil]

Sine hwen has paul's name ever been synonymous with defense?....He's not a good defender,, he gambles for steals TOO much and his on ball defense is not worth mentioning. Derrick Rose is easily a better on ball defender than Paul, especially this year. Paul scoring almost just as good as rose is just comical. Call me when paul can do his scoring thing consistently without all the screens and in the traffic that rose does when he makes it to the rim. Paul's scoring avenues are made by his passing threat which gives more space to score. Rose scoring lanes are smaller because of his scoring threat which makes his passing lanes wider. learn the game.

First off hater I know the game more than u will ever know. Points are points no matter how u get them. For one Paul is a better outside shooter than Rose. Paul has just as much handle or even more than Rose. The difference is Rose is a freakish athlete and taller at 6'3. I admit Rose is a better scorer than Paul, but Paul isn't far off in my book. People play Rose for the drive and he still gets it done. But for you to say people play Paul for the pass is crazy. U gotta play up on Paul more than u do Rose cause Paul has a better jumper at this point.

I love proving bitch ass haters wrong like u! I welcome u to challenge me anytime! I gonna throw dirt on ya bitch ass with this: CP3 has made the all defensive team three times and has led the L in steals multiple times. And you bitch ass says when was Paul and defense synonomous. Well clearly they go hand in hand cause dude has made all defense multiple times. I'm not saying Paul is the best defender at PG of all time, but he's a better defender than Rose at this point.

U are insane as **** hater!! Paul can put damn near ANYBODY on an island without a screen and shake them up and blow past them. He will then stop on a dime and bust you ass, or take it all the way. CP3 is compared to Isiah. The reason is because they are wizards with rock. They can get to the rack at will and lay u up or get fouled. They might not dunk on u like Rose, but two points is two points. Lebron said during those Dream Team Practices, Paul was shaking up everybody. Paul doesn't need merely screens to score the rock. Other than postups and wet 3ball, Paul can score anyway u want it at 6'0.

And if Rose's passing lanes are wider, then he needs to use them better. Rose is a very good passer and floor general, but he's not on Paul's level in that aspect. So with what u are saying, their is NO EXCUSE for Rose not to be better in terms of floor general shit. Cause as u said, his passing lanes are wider. I don't get this passing lane shit. The greatest passers of all time drop thread the needle passes with very little room. Or they drop alleyoops over the entire defense. The best passers make difficult passes look easy. **** passing lanes and that bullshit u are talking about bitch!

[Whoah10115]

Chris Paul is one of the very best on-ball defenders in the NBA. He doesn't gamble for steals in the lane. He's Mr. Cookies. I'd say he's the best defender at PG in the league, or at least behind Rondo...but he's better on-ball.

[bizil]

Chris Paul is one of the very best on-ball defenders in the NBA. He doesn't gamble for steals in the lane. He's Mr. Cookies. I'd say he's the best defender at PG in the league, or at least behind Rondo...but he's better on-ball.n

I agree 100%! For some of these posters to say when have Paul and defense been in the same sentence is insane! That's a ridiculous observation and really shows either hater shit or lack of knowledge. Rondo and Paul are indeed cream of the crop defenders at PG.

[Yung D-Will]

Rondo is the best pg defender in this leauge. Sorry to any fans of any other pg's.