PickUp Game: Larry Bird VS Scottie Pippen

[Jotaro Durant]

first to 21. 2s are 1s and 3s are 2s.

jumpball and winner gets the ball.

who u got?:rockon:

[Bernie Nips]

Bird.

[Harison]

It would be close, but Bird is one of the greatest 3PT shooters of all time (or from anywhere for that matter), so regardless if he decides to post-up or kill with jumpers, not much Pippen can do about it.

[HighFlyer23]

pippen

bird is white

/thread

[StroShow4]

1s and 2s is an advantage for Bird as he'll probably shoot more 3s so a lot of his buckets will be worth twice what Pippen's are. I'll roll with Larry.

[Cowboy Thunder]

Durant > Pippen > Bird

[Pushxx]

Bird for sure. There's a reason why he has all those assists: he had to get doubled consistently.

[kenny817]

Durant > Pippen > Bird


This is why they still need the neg system

[Sarcastic]

Larry Legend.

[JellyBean]

Pippen.

[inclinerator]

stockton

[jstern]

Larry Bird. Plus those 3s being worth 2 points, and 2s being worth 1 gives Bird an even bigger advantage. I would love to see that game.

[97 bulls]

You guys thaat picked bird obviously don't know a damn thing about basketball. Pippen would kill bird in a game on 1v1. There's no way bird at 6'9 could rise up and shoot enough outside shots over pippen at 6'8 to counter pippens superior footspeed and ability to drive to the basket.

[barkleynash]

Bird had a lot more moves than pippen ever had. Bird would just talk a little trash and dare pippen to shoot the outside jumper. If the game were played outside, Pippen would never hit a jumper. Bird would be draining threes in 20 mile an hour winds.

[97 bulls]

Bird had a lot more moves than pippen ever had. Bird would just talk a little trash and dare pippen to shoot the outside jumper. If the game were played outside, Pippen would never hit a jumper. Bird would be draining threes in 20 mile an hour winds.
Do you really think bird has the footspeed to stay in front of pippen?

[jstern]

You guys thaat picked bird obviously don't know a damn thing about basketball. Pippen would kill bird in a game on 1v1. There's no way bird at 6'9 could rise up and shoot enough outside shots over pippen at 6'8 to counter pippens superior footspeed and ability to drive to the basket.

Bird is a little before my time, but you do know that Larry Bird is a top 8 player who has been guarded by Pippen. If we're just judging superficially yeah, it makes more sense that Pippen would kill him.

Once I saw a video of Larry Bird, and he seemed so out of place, running back and forth along players that seemed so much more athletic than him, yet he was the best in the world. That's what I find fascinating about him.

[97 bulls]

Bird is a little before my time, but you do know that Larry Bird is a top 8 player who has been guarded by Pippen. If we're just judging superficially yeah, it makes more sense that Pippen would kill him.

Once I saw a video of Larry Bird, and he seemed so out of place, running back and forth along players that seemed so much more athletic than him, yet he was the best in the world. That's what I find fascinating about him.
Birds strength was not isolation. He fed off his teammates. If pippen were shorter, say 6'3 id say sure bird could just rise up and shoot over him. Their respective all-time ranking has no bearing on this

[HB40TheNextStar]

I tend to lean towards the more athletic player (assuming he has some type of handle) in 1v1.

And it's not like Bird vs Gerald Green.

[barkleynash]

Bird shot over scottie pippen whenever he wanted. I know pippen was young, but he guarded bird for 4 or 5 years and did defend him as well as anybody did, but bird still got off his shot with relative ease. People don't know how tough it is to guard somebody that is such a deadly shooter. His threat of shooting was the best fake in basketball, just looking at the hoop guys were jumping out of their shorts. Pippen would be left out on an island in a game of one on one. The ball fake creates that little space and then bird never lets you recover. He was not called the master of the half inch for nothing.
I would have rather guarded someone that was quicker and was an average shooter or would prefer to drive, especially in one on one games. When you have to guard a shooter who can use quality jab and shot fakes like a bird, it is so tough. Bird could probably drain 4 or 5 in a row and then pippen would be totally lost.

[get these NETS]

michael cooper could lock down Bird for stretches of games....so pippen could surely do it.

pip pip hooray...

[97 bulls]

Bird shot over scottie pippen whenever he wanted. I know pippen was young, but he guarded bird for 4 or 5 years and did defend him as well as anybody did, but bird still got off his shot with relative ease. People don't know how tough it is to guard somebody that is such a deadly shooter. His threat of shooting was the best fake in basketball, just looking at the hoop guys were jumping out of their shorts. Pippen would be left out on an island in a game of one on one. The ball fake creates that little space and then bird never lets you recover. He was not called the master of the half inch for nothing.
I would have rather guarded someone that was quicker and was an average shooter or would prefer to drive, especially in one on one games. When you have to guard a shooter who can use quality jab and shot fakes like a bird, it is so tough. Bird could probably drain 4 or 5 in a row and then pippen would be totally lost.
Have you ever playes 1v1 against a guy that could dribble, jump out the gym and finish with authority?

What your saying only holds true in a team setting. Then, you not only have to worry about the man with the ball, but you must worry about his ability to pass or a man comming over to set a pick.

And what good is jabs and shot fakes? Due to pippens footspeed and equal length, why would he need to bite on a pump fake? And you obviously don't know what a jab is used for. Its used to get seperation in order to hit an open jumper. But you must respect the offensive players ability to drive. And don't forget pippens aarguably the greatest man defender ever. All pippen would need to do is get up on bird and make him drive.

[Pushxx]

Giving the edge to someone in 1v1 because they are more athletic is misguided. 1v1 comes down to ability to shoot, post, and drive. The more versatile, cutthroat, and consistent, the better iso player.

That basically defines Bird. Like I said before, he averaged 7 assists per game because help defenses had to come so often for Bird when he drove and posted up. Bird didn't get assists like LeBron by running the point at the top of the key.

There is no help defense in 1v1. Bird is gonna burn you.

[Harison]

michael cooper could lock down Bird for stretches of games....so pippen could surely do it.

pip pip hooray...
You mean like this? Bulls and Celtics were tied at the end of the game, and everybody and your mother knew Bird will take the last shot, Pippen with Jordan were all over him and couldnt do anything:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoGmMx8Ejrw

[barkleynash]

Bulls fan, I acknowledge Pippen's ability to defend and count him as one of the best defenders in the history of the game, and he does have length.
I wonder why bird could just shoot over him then. Cause Bird was bigger, shot the ball from behind his head and Pippen couldn't block it. Even with Pip in his face it wouldn't bother bird. I'm just saying bird could get his shot off and make it!! Bird could rocker step Pippen with his shot and jab fake. If Pip played him too tight Bird would get by him, not blow by him but just get that little space and Pip would not be strong enough to force his way back in.

And yes, I have played much quicker guys than me, as I was considered an average athlete as a point guard, fortunately, for whatever reason the guys I checked never seemed to have both the great shooting and the quickness.
Pippen could shoot, but I would not consider him a great shooter and he was pretty inconsistent with his J in comparison to bird, who would get hot and hit6,7 ,8 shots in a row. Bird would sag off Scottie and make him shoot. If pip made jumpers then bird would obviously be in more trouble. But I'd like to see pip back bird down and score on him consistenly, he wasn't strong enough.
Bird on the other hand could back Pippen down if it came to that and take him on the block or with the fade.

[97 bulls]

Giving the edge to someone in 1v1 because they are more athletic is misguided. 1v1 comes down to ability to shoot, post, and drive. The more versatile, cutthroat, and consistent, the better iso player.

That basically defines Bird. Like I said before, he averaged 7 assists per game because help defenses had to come so often for Bird when he drove and posted up. Bird didn't get assists like LeBron by running the point at the top of the key.

There is no help defense in 1v1. Bird is gonna burn you.
One on one is a totally different animal from aa team game. And your trying take what bird was able to do in a team concept and inculcate it into 1v1 iso ball. These are pros were talking about, even more all-time great hofers. Its not as if pippen can't score. Bird has to play up on him too.

There's just no way bird can stay infront of pippen in a 1 on 1 setting.

[97 bulls]

I tend to lean towards the more athletic player (assuming he has some type of handle) in 1v1.

And it's not like Bird vs Gerald Green.
I'm not sure bird could beat gerald green in a game of 1 on 1.

[Pushxx]

I'm not sure bird could beat gerald green in a game of 1 on 1.

HAHAHAHA I was about to respond to your post above until you said that.

You must be completely trolling. You don't become a top 5 player of all time unless you encompass a greatness that almost no comparable man can ever match. Gerald Green?

Come on man.
http://www.failepicfail.com/epic-fail/1011/facefail-clooney-facepalm-fail-epic-fail-1290619566.jpg

[97 bulls]

Bulls fan, I acknowledge Pippen's ability to defend and count him as one of the best defenders in the history of the game, and he does have length.
I wonder why bird could just shoot over him then. Cause Bird was bigger, shot the ball from behind his head and Pippen couldn't block it. Even with Pip in his face it wouldn't bother bird. I'm just saying bird could get his shot off and make it!! Bird could rocker step Pippen with his shot and jab fake. If Pip played him too tight Bird would get by him, not blow by him but just get that little space and Pip would not be strong enough to force his way back in.

And yes, I have played much quicker guys than me, as I was considered an average athlete as a point guard, fortunately, for whatever reason the guys I checked never seemed to have both the great shooting and the quickness.
Pippen could shoot, but I would not consider him a great shooter and he was pretty inconsistent with his J in comparison to bird, who would get hot and hit6,7 ,8 shots in a row. Bird would sag off Scottie and make him shoot. If pip made jumpers then bird would obviously be in more trouble. But I'd like to see pip back bird down and score on him consistenly, he wasn't strong enough.
Bird on the other hand could back Pippen down if it came to that and take him on the block or with the fade.
Again, these are pros. Even more hofers, even more than that all-time great hofers. You can't just give a guy like pippen open space. He's gonna make it. Especially if birds gonna give him the jumpshot. And with pippens footspeed, bird would need to give a lot of ground.

And why would pippen negate his advantage by trying to back down bird? Makes no sense.

[midatlantic09]

Anyone who says Bird doesn't know basketball. The OP said one-on-one, not five-on-five. Pippen is way too long, quick, and athletic for Bird to stop one-on-one.

As far as one-on-one goes, a prime Bird would probably lose to half of today's NBA players.

[97 bulls]

HAHAHAHA I was about to respond to your post above until you said that.

You must be completely trolling. You don't become a top 5 player of all time unless you encompass a greatness that almost no comparable man can ever match. Gerald Green?

Come on man.
http://www.failepicfail.com/epic-fail/1011/facefail-clooney-facepalm-fail-epic-fail-1290619566.jpg
I'm sorry Push, I just don't see bird being able to stay infront of gerald green either. And I've never seen a player good enough to consistently hit jumpers that are highly contested. It doesn't mean green is a better basketball player, jjust a far superior athlete as well as being a decent enough dribbler to get past the slow-a-foot bird.

[barkleynash]

Pippen could shoot the ball, but not even close to being in the category of bird. As well, pip was more of a dribble the ball up the floor in transition and shoot the three. Very few of his threes were off the catch with triple threat, as a one on one game is. Bird didn't need to have the threat to pass the ball, he averaged over 24 a game for his career with all his passing numbers. If he decided to be a straight out scorer he would have been in the high 20's for his career. All I'm saying is Birds offensive skill and strength trumps pips quickness and defense.

[Meticode]

Why is this even a question? Bird all the way. Bird used to tell players in games, "Hey I'm going to catch the ball here, shoot it in your face and make it." And he'd f*cking do it the next possession.

[97 bulls]

Why is this even a question? Bird all the way. Bird used to tell players in games, "Hey I'm going to catch the ball here, shoot it in your face and make it." And he'd f*cking do it the next possession.
He didn't tell pippen that

[Pushxx]

And I've never seen a player good enough to consistently hit jumpers that are highly contested. It doesn't mean green is a better basketball player, jjust a far superior athlete as well as being a decent enough dribbler to get past the slow-a-foot bird.

Are you kidding? You're talking like Larry Bird is a Kyle Korver spot-up shooter.

Larry Bird is one of the three best offensive players in the history of basketball. Great offense beats great defense in 1v1.

Go YouTube some Bird highlights. He gets a one inch step on his man and the shot is good...

[Meticode]

He didn't tell pippen that
And Pippen never told anyone that.

[TheAdmiral3]

Pippen

he is more athletic.

[barkleynash]

Bird would get into pips head, hell even Xavier mcdaniel did and pippen tapped out with a migraine.

[Pushxx]

He didn't tell pippen that

ACTUALLY HE DID...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoGmMx8Ejrw

[97 bulls]

Pippen could shoot the ball, but not even close to being in the category of bird. As well, pip was more of a dribble the ball up the floor in transition and shoot the three. Very few of his threes were off the catch with triple threat, as a one on one game is. Bird didn't need to have the threat to pass the ball, he averaged over 24 a game for his career with all his passing numbers. If he decided to be a straight out scorer he would have been in the high 20's for his career. All I'm saying is Birds offensive skill and strength trumps pips quickness and defense.
Again, your trying to take what bird did in a team setting and draw that as a conclusion to what he'd do 1 v 1. You can't do that bro.

I also don't see how you can say bird was stronger than pippen. Pippen was actuall a little bit bigger he was listed at 6'8 228lbs, bird was listed at 6'9 220. Pippen also had those insanely long arms too

[97 bulls]

Bird would get into pips head, hell even Xavier mcdaniel did and pippen tapped out with a migraine.
Xavier Mcdaniel didn't get into pippens head, he hit pippen over the head consistently. Big difference. Bird wasn't that type of player

[1987_Lakers]

ACTUALLY HE DID...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoGmMx8Ejrw
:applause:

[97 bulls]

And Pippen never told anyone that.
So:confusedshrug:

[barkleynash]

I know it is only 1 play and early on in pips career maybe, but there was a pretty big strength difference with bird vs pippen. Maybe not in weight, but in strength. Even the chicago comentator said it about Pippen, "if Bird gets it down there it's over buddy". Some people just have a freak strength, call it farmboy strength or whatever, bird had unbelievably strong hands and was impossible to move. Bird would go into the trenches with guys like laimbeer and give out as much as he took. He was one mean, strong SOB who had no fear of anyone. I'm not trying to bash Pippen, as he was a very good player, but you seem to be underating bird here. Bird was and is a player considered as a greatest of all time candidate. Pippen although very good, was not in that category.

[haji_d_robertas]

Bird. Sorry Scottie. On the court, nobody was more competitive than Larry Bird.

[97 bulls]

I know it is only 1 play and early on in pips career maybe, but there was a pretty big strength difference with bird vs pippen. Maybe not in weight, but in strength. Even the chicago comentator said it about Pippen, "if Bird gets it down there it's over buddy". Some people just have a freak strength, call it farmboy strength or whatever, bird had unbelievably strong hands and was impossible to move. Bird would go into the trenches with guys like laimbeer and give out as much as he took. He was one mean, strong SOB who had no fear of anyone. I'm not trying to bash Pippen, as he was a very good player, but you seem to be underating bird here. Bird was and is a player considered as a greatest of all time candidate. Pippen although very good, was not in that category.
Scottie pippen was about 23 yrs old when bird hit that shot. Come on. I believe when he was drafted, he was 200lbs. By the time he hit his prime, he was a solid 230.

And you want to talk about farmboys, pippen was from a small town in arkansas.

Your arguing based on birds accomplishments and all-time rankings bro. The question was who would win in a 1 v 1 game, not whose ranked higher.

[pauk]

Bird

[OldSchoolBBall]

Xavier Mcdaniel didn't get into pippens head

Yeah okay. :oldlol: Bird would certainly get into Pippen's head.

[knightfall88]

How would Bird shake off Pippen without any screens?

[bwink23]

I'm not sure bird could beat gerald green in a game of 1 on 1.


Now i know your just a YOUNG Bulls fan...an elder statesman Bird would whip the snot out of a young Scottie Pippen in 1-on-1 situations and make it look easy.....:facepalm

[97 bulls]

Yeah okay. :oldlol: Bird would certainly get into Pippen's head.
Oh give me a ****n break. Can you guys give pippen any respect? What the pistons and knicks did to pippen aand the bulls was physical not mental.

Wow your crazy

[97 bulls]

Now i know your just a YOUNG Bulls fan...an elder statesman Bird would whip the snot out of a young Scottie Pippen in 1-on-1 situations and make it look easy.....:facepalm
And your just as bonkers as he is. And obviously don't play basketball.

[TheMan]

Pippen easily, Bird would be taking contested shots and you gonna tell me Bird will stay in front of Pip as he drives to the hole?:facepalm

Some of you guys don't know a damn thing about 1v1 ball.

[97 bulls]

Pippen easily, Bird would be taking contested shots and you gonna tell me Bird will stay in front of Pip as he drives to the hole?:facepalm

Some of you guys don't know a damn thing about 1v1 ball.
Exactly. I don't know what runs through some of these peoples head. They're acting as if pippen would just allow bird to shoot wide open threes.

[bwink23]

Again, your trying to take what bird did in a team setting and draw that as a conclusion to what he'd do 1 v 1. You can't do that bro.

I also don't see how you can say bird was stronger than pippen. Pippen was actuall a little bit bigger he was listed at 6'8 228lbs, bird was listed at 6'9 220. Pippen also had those insanely long arms too



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp0NMFf9Dkg.....Larry Bird 33 points and making a mockery of 7'0 Brad Sellers and Scottie Pippen. Notice they even would put Sellers on Bird instead of Pippen when they were on the court at the same time, cuz of Seller's length...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAOx36A48wU...about 5 minutes into the video...

As you can see, Bird has no problems shooting over Pippen....:D

[bwink23]

And your just as bonkers as he is. And obviously don't play basketball.


NO young lad, i do play ball...and yes, you NEVER saw Bird play Pippen in their careers...Bird past his prime would torch a young athletic Pippen many times. Bird's shot is near unblockable....you were just too young kid sorry.

[oolalaa]

No one in this thread has mentioned intangibles. Bird was one of the most driven and homicidally competitive players the league has ever seen. He was also one of the best clutch players as well. These things translate to all forms of basketball.

Bird would win, and by a comfortable margin.

[TheMan]

How would Bird shake off Pippen without any screens?
Easy, he wouldn't, Bird can try to back Pippen down but we are talking about one of the better defenders who ever played, good luck with that.

[bwink23]

Easy, he wouldn't, Bird can try to back Pippen down but we are talking about one of the better defenders who ever played, good luck with that.




You were TOO YOUNG kid, move along. You don't know what your talking about....you'd have to actually have seen these guys matched up, which they did back in the day, and Pippen had all he could handle with Bird, trust me.

[97 bulls]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp0NMFf9Dkg.....Larry Bird 33 points and making a mockery of 7'0 Brad Sellers and Scottie Pippen. Notice they even would put Sellers on Bird instead of Pippen when they were on the court at the same time, cuz of Seller's length...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAOx36A48wU...about 5 minutes into the video...

As you can see, Bird has no problems shooting over Pippen....:D
Don't be a fool. Scottie pippen was a rookie. And that's in a team setting. What about that can you not comprehend? It wasn't pippen vs bird one on one. And that was mainly bird dogging brad sellers anyway.

This is 1 v 1.

[bwink23]

Don't be a fool. Scottie pippen was a rookie. And that's in a team setting. What about that can you not comprehend? It wasn't pippen vs bird one on one. And that was mainly bird dogging brad sellers anyway.

This is 1 v 1.



Bird routinely dogged Pippen...i don't respect your opinion on this matter, i can tell for a fact you've never seen these 2 matched up...sorry dude but you don't know what the hell your talking about. :hammerhead:

[97 bulls]

No one in this thread has mentioned intangibles. Bird was one of the most driven and homicidally competitive players the league has ever seen. He was also one of the best clutch players as well. These things translate to all forms of basketball.

Bird would win, and by a comfortable margin.
So was pippen. All you have to know about pippens drive is that he went from being a ball manger in college to an all-time great hofer. Bird left indiana cuz he couldn't cut it. Drive and inatngibles. Please.

[97 bulls]

Bird routinely dogged Pippen...i don't respect your opinion on this matter, i can tell for a fact you've never seen these 2 matched up...sorry dude but you don't know what the hell your talking about. :hammerhead:
Bird didn't routinely dog pippen. He dogged sellers. Once pippen matured, pippen dogged bird.

[bwink23]

Bird didn't routinely dog pippen. He dogged sellers. Once pippen matured, pippen dogged bird.


Like i said, you've never seen those games in the 80's, so you don't know what your talking about kid....:violin:


http://s304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Boston%20Celtics/Larry%20Bird/?action=view&current=8e3d6023.gif&mediafilter=images&co=10

[KevinNYC]

Go YouTube some Bird highlights. He gets a one inch step on his man and the shot is good...

This one of the key's to Bird's game he didn't need to get much separation to get his shot off. And he has a quick release and his shot and his ball fake looked pretty much the same. The NBA was filled with guys who thought Bird wouldn't get his shot against him. As for the idea that pump fakes wouldn't work in one on one, that seems ludicrous. So the strategy would let Bird shoot and hope you could get to it? Does that seem like a good strategy if it's two points behind the arc. James Worthy said he used to be mentally exhausted after playing a game against Bird, because your concentration needed to much greater than in an average game.

On the opposite end, I think Bird would have to play off Pippen which would give Pippen more uncontested shots.

[KevinNYC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp0NMFf9Dkg.....Larry Bird 33 points and making a mockery of 7'0 Brad Sellers and Scottie Pippen. Notice they even would put Sellers on Bird instead of Pippen when they were on the court at the same time, cuz of Seller's length...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAOx36A48wU...about 5 minutes into the video...

As you can see, Bird has no problems shooting over Pippen....:D

Is this the shot you mean?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAOx36A48wU#t=06m21s

If you at the following to a youtube link, you can go to exact point in the clip.
#t=00m00s

So if you add #t=02m30s to the URL, it go to 2 minutes, 30 seconds in.

The following is a good example of how Bird didn't need much space and gets his shot off at the 7 footer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp0NMFf9Dkg#t=00m30s

[TheMan]

You were TOO YOUNG kid, move along. You don't know what your talking about....you'd have to actually have seen these guys matched up, which they did back in the day, and Pippen had all he could handle with Bird, trust me.
I'm no kid, my first NBA Finals I saw was the Rockets/Celtics in 86.

I think the thing here is we got a lot of white old timers trying to prop one of their own, I'm not black nor white, I'm nuetral.

Read carefully, I'm not saying Pippen is a better player than Bird, IMO, Bird is top 5 GOAT player while Pip is top 20, but we are not talking 5v5 ball, in a 1v1 Pip wins because he's an elite athletic and long defender while Bird was avg at best at D, advantage Pippen.

[97 bulls]

This one of the key's to Bird's game he didn't need to get much separation to get his shot off. And he has a quick release and his shot and his ball fake looked pretty much the same. The NBA was filled with guys who thought Bird wouldn't get his shot against him. As for the idea that pump fakes wouldn't work in one on one, that seems ludicrous. So the strategy would let Bird shoot and hope you could get to it? Does that seem like a good strategy if it's two points behind the arc. James Worthy said he used to be mentally exhausted after playing a game against Bird, because your concentration needed to much greater than in an average game.

On the opposite end, I think Bird would have to play off Pippen which would give Pippen more uncontested shots.
If I'm pippen, I'm not biting on any sort of pump fake. Get in his hip pocket and take away his jumpshot and dare him to try to drive and be ready to meet him at the rim.

On the other hand, if bird allows pippen to just shoot uncontested jumpers, its gonns be an easy win for pippen. His jumpshot wasn't that bad enough that you can dare him to shoot it. Much less allow him to get into a rythem.

And james worthy is no pippen. Especially on defense

[KevinNYC]

If I'm pippen, I'm not biting on any sort of pump fake. Get in his hip pocket and take away his jumpshot and dare him to try to drive and be ready to meet him at the rim.


Two points here. If you're not biting on pump fakes, you're going to letting some uncontested shots go up because he shot and his fake looked the same.

When you say meet him at the rim, are you talking in terms of blocking his shot? I don't know of too many times where Bird's man blocked him when he was driving. That was usually because Bird didn't usually take the shot where you expected him too. He would scoop it or go off angle. If he did get his shot blocked while driving it was usually someone playing help defense.

And I agree with you that on defense, Bird is going to have to pick his poison.

[Pushxx]

You guys act like Pippen is MJ on offense. The better offensive player wins 1 on 1.

You guys also act like Pippen is gonna block every one of Bird's shots. Bird made a career out of outplaying his defender.

Oh and Bird was one of the most ambidextrous players ever.

[ralph_i_el]

present day?

gotta go with pip. Birds back must be in terrible shape for basketball it his age, what with all the problems he had during his career

[Pushxx]

present day?

gotta go with pip. Birds back must be in terrible shape for basketball it his age, what with all the problems he had during his career

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/190/188/1319398404903.jpg

[97 bulls]

You guys act like Pippen is MJ on offense. The better offensive player wins 1 on 1.

You guys also act like Pippen is gonna block every one of Bird's shots. Bird made a career out of outplaying his defender.

Oh and Bird was one of the most ambidextrous players ever.
If I were to grade the two offensively and defensively


Offense

Bird A+
Pippen B

Defense (man defense since this is 1 on 1)

Bird D
Pippen A+

[97 bulls]

Two points here. If you're not biting on pump fakes, you're going to letting some uncontested shots go up because he shot and his fake looked the same.

When you say meet him at the rim, are you talking in terms of blocking his shot? I don't know of too many times where Bird's man blocked him when he was driving. That was usually because Bird didn't usually take the shot where you expected him too. He would scoop it or go off angle. If he did get his shot blocked while driving it was usually someone playing help defense.

And I agree with you that on defense, Bird is going to have to pick his poison.
You don't need to bite on pump fakes to contest a jumpshot. Just get up on him and make him drive or tey to score of the dribble.

Same goees with meeting him at the rim. You don't need to block every shot, but I don't see bird being able to beat pippen athletically.

[Pushxx]

Defense (man defense since this is 1 on 1)

Bird D
Pippen A+

A D? D? Seriously...D? D?

HAHAHAHAHA :oldlol:

Read this thread...please... http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=230228&page=3

Also...check this video out... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Ixy8Uttq0

[TheMan]

If I were to grade the two offensively and defensively


Offense

Bird A+
Pippen B

Defense (man defense since this is 1 on 1)

Bird D
Pippen A+
Bird was a pretty good help defender, but ISO D not so much, I 'd grade him about a C overall.

[ralph_i_el]

Bird D
Pippen A+

he's white right? and slow....so he must be bad on defense!

try again buddy


So was pippen. All you have to know about pippens drive is that he went from being a ball manger in college to an all-time great hofer. Bird left indiana cuz he couldn't cut it. Drive and inatngibles. Please.

Bird is one of the top 10 most competitive ball players of all time.

[97 bulls]

A D? D? Seriously...D? D?

HAHAHAHAHA :oldlol:

Read this thread...please... http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=230228&page=3

Also...check this video out... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Ixy8Uttq0
Do you even know the difference between man defense and help defense?

And just so you know, id give bird a B on help defense. There's a reason why mchale as a power forward had to defend the opposing teams better scoring forward. Cuz bird couldn't. Mchale had to defend guys like worthy and wilkins.

Which also expalins why bird defensive rating is so high. He routinely defended the worse offensive forward.

The same goes for carlos boozer. Noah draws the assignment of having to defend the opposing teams best scoring bigman be it center or power forward

[oolalaa]

So was pippen. All you have to know about pippens drive is that he went from being a ball manger in college to an all-time great hofer. Bird left indiana cuz he couldn't cut it. Drive and inatngibles. Please.

You are ludicrously biased, or deluded, or both.


Bird possessed intangible greatness. Pippen did not. It's really quite simple.

[97 bulls]

he's white right? and slow....so he must be bad on defense!

try again buddy



Bird is one of the top 10 most competitive ball players of all time.
Go back and read my post. I stated man MAN defense. Birds strength on defense was his help defense. Which is worthless in a 1 on 1 setting.

[blablabla]

Bird

[97 bulls]

You are ludicrously biased, or deluded, or both.


Bird possessed intangible greatness. Pippen did not. It's really quite simple.
I'm biased? Why don't you go back and read the road pippen traveled to get to the hall of fame. You'd be hard pressed trying to find a harder one.

And I never said bird didn't have intangibles, I said pippen did too. Pippen could score 15 pts and be the most dominant player on the court. Through his versitlity, running the offense, defense, and intangibles

[OhNoTimNoSho]

I am deeply saddened by the responses in this thread.


To think that people are saying that Bird has no chance against anyone is just cray. I mean, maybe saying a 50/50 split or something.. but no chance??

People really don't understand what it means to be so competitive that you become one of the greatest players ever... Bird would find a way to win somehow against anyone.. He was a basketball genius. Yes Scottie's athleticism gives him an edge, and i think he'd be able to win like 2 out of 10 times. But Bird would just rain shots in his grill all day out of sheer ferocity and will to win.

[Pushxx]

I am deeply saddened by the responses in this thread.


To think that people are saying that Bird has no chance against anyone is just cray. I mean, maybe saying a 50/50 split or something.. but no chance??

People really don't understand what it means to be so competitive that you become one of the greatest players ever... Bird would find a way to win somehow against anyone.. He was a basketball genius. Yes Scottie's athleticism gives him an edge, and i think he'd be able to win like 2 out of 10 times. But Bird would just rain shots in his grill all day out of sheer ferocity and will to win.

They just don't get it. An ISH thread earlier had Bird out of 30% of people's top 10 lists. Sickening. Unknowledgable or biased people...

[bwink23]

I'm no kid, my first NBA Finals I saw was the Rockets/Celtics in 86.

I think the thing here is we got a lot of white old timers trying to prop one of their own, I'm not black nor white, I'm nuetral.

Read carefully, I'm not saying Pippen is a better player than Bird, IMO, Bird is top 5 GOAT player while Pip is top 20, but we are not talking 5v5 ball, in a 1v1 Pip wins because he's an elite athletic and long defender while Bird was avg at best at D, advantage Pippen.


Your for sure a kid, and your opinion is bullshit as well....Bird never had a problem with length from anyone, he shot was near unblockable and he can shoot while being draped is as good as anyone...you for sure don't know what the hell your talking about son....:pimp:

[97 bulls]

They just don't get it. An ISH thread earlier had Bird out of 30% of people's top 10 lists. Sickening. Unknowledgable or biased people...
Just because bird is top 10 does not mean he's capable of beating every player ranked under him in a game of 1 v 1.

And this is where your obviously confused

[bwink23]

I can tell the fools that never saw Pippen being matched up with Bird...Bird ate Pippen's lunch on many an occasion...and the Bulls would have to put Brad Sellers on Bird instead of Pippen cuz he was LONGER than Pippen and had a better chance at contesting...

BIRD TOOLED PIPPEN just like any other small forward during his time, PERIOD>


:no:

[97 bulls]

Your for sure a kid, and your opinion is bullshit as well....Bird never had a problem with length from anyone, he shot was near unblockable and he can shoot while being draped is as good as anyone...you for sure don't know what the hell your talking about son....:pimp:
Do you understand the concept of 1 on 1? Do you really see bird being able to stick jumpers in pippens face more than pippens capable of going around bird or hitting open jumpers? I mean, bird must guard pippen too.

[oolalaa]

I am deeply saddened by the responses in this thread.


To think that people are saying that Bird has no chance against anyone is just cray. I mean, maybe saying a 50/50 split or something.. but no chance??

People really don't understand what it means to be so competitive that you become one of the greatest players ever... Bird would find a way to win somehow against anyone.. He was a basketball genius. Yes Scottie's athleticism gives him an edge, and i think he'd be able to win like 2 out of 10 times. But Bird would just rain shots in his grill all day out of sheer ferocity and will to win.

:applause: Was going to say something similar but you beat me to it.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

Just because bird is top 10 does not mean he's capable of beating every player ranked under him in a game of 1 v 1.

And this is where your obviously confused
You are a giant bulls homer.

So because Bird was one of the greatest offensive players and shooters of all time doesn't mean he could beat those under him?? And also doesnt mean he is CAPABLE?????!?!?! WTFFF

What does it mean then? Bird was a fraud who was only successful due to isolated situations?


How old are you? Do you even understand the essence of Bird's game? You keep saying how bird wouldnt be as effective 1 vs 1. Are you high? Is there a pattern of mental retardation in your family? I feel these questions would help me understand your views more.

[lbj23clutch]

I'm not sure bird could beat gerald green in a game of 1 on 1.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[get these NETS]

97 bulls

no use.....lot of so called hoop fans see bird's color...not his game strengths/weaknesses

so in their mind...bird could beat one of the complete defensive players of all time...and a very good offensive player in a game of one on one... even though logic says they are wrong


again....micheal cooper locked down bird in a team game.....running through screens, picks....in a no zone era...

pippen would bother bird on defense and blow past him on offense

case closed

[lbj23clutch]

I choose Bird. Much more skilled, much higher basketball IQ and on top of that Bird may have been one of the most competitive players of all time.

[97 bulls]

I can tell the fools that never saw Pippen being matched up with Bird...Bird ate Pippen's lunch on many an occasion...and the Bulls would have to put Brad Sellers on Bird instead of Pippen cuz he was LONGER than Pippen and had a better chance at contesting...

BIRD TOOLED PIPPEN just like any other small forward during his time, PERIOD>


:no:
22 yr old pippen played against bird and the celtics 3 times as a rookie. In those games, brad sellers started

one game, sellers played 42 minutes to pippen 7

Another game, pippen played 15 minutes while sellers played in 33

And the last one, pippen played 25 min and was 8-11 good for 73% shooting.

Bird played against and did most of his damage vs sellers.

I don't see what's so hard to comprehend. Pippen didn't play against bird enough to draw the kind of conclusions your trying to derive. And he was a rookie.


Its actually a huge disservice to bird that the best you can do is compare him in his prime to scottie pippen as a 22 year old rookie

[bwink23]

Do you understand the concept of 1 on 1? Do you really see bird being able to stick jumpers in pippens face more than pippens capable of going around bird or hitting open jumpers? I mean, bird must guard pippen too.


Bird did it ALOT...of course i can see it, i saw it with my 2 eyes DUDE...:rolleyes:

[bwink23]

22 yr old pippen played against bird and the celtics 3 times as a rookie. In those games, brad sellers started

one game, sellers played 42 minutes to pippen 7

Another game, pippen played 15 minutes while sellers played in 33

And the last one, pippen played 25 min and was 8-11 good for 73% shooting.

Bird played against and did most of his damage vs sellers.

I don't see what's so hard to comprehend. Pippen didn't play against bird enough to draw the kind of conclusions your trying to derive. And he was a rookie.


Its actually a huge disservice to bird that the best you can do is compare him in his prime to scottie pippen as a 22 year old rookie



NOT AT ALL man...Bird ATE PIPPEN'S LUNCH....they had to put Sellers on him cuz Pippen would and was getting smoked. Bird smoked many a small forward more athletic than he was....Bird raped Pippen then even when he was having back problems and he would do it again if it was prime vs. prime..:D

[97 bulls]

You are a giant bulls homer.

So because Bird was one of the greatest offensive players and shooters of all time doesn't mean he could beat those under him?? And also doesnt mean he is CAPABLE?????!?!?! WTFFF

What does it mean then? Bird was a fraud who was only successful due to isolated situations?


How old are you? Do you even understand the essence of Bird's game? You keep saying how bird wouldnt be as effective 1 vs 1. Are you high? Is there a pattern of mental retardation in your family? I feel these questions would help me understand your views more.
I pride myself on being the biggest bulls homer that frequents this forum. I'm in historic and present day bulls threads more than any other bulls fan.

I believe you are the one that doesn't understand birds game my friend. Birds games wasn't one that's condusive to 1 on 1. That's why I can't understand why the pro bird camp insists on centering their arguments around what bird did in an nba setting.

I guess I should shouldn't have used the word capable. I just don't see bird being a strong iso player. That wasn't his game.

Steve Nash is one of the most fundamentally sound PGs ever, but in a game of 1 on 1 where man defense and isolation becomes more paramount, I don't see him being able to beat, john wall for example. Cuz he can't stay in front of him

[97 bulls]

NOT AT ALL man...Bird ATE PIPPEN'S LUNCH....they had to put Sellers on him cuz Pippen would and was getting smoked. Bird smoked many a small forward more athletic than he was....Bird raped Pippen then even when he was having back problems and he would do it again if it was prime vs. prime..:D
Lol ok whatever

[97 bulls]

97 bulls

no use.....lot of so called hoop fans see bird's color...not his game strengths/weaknesses

so in their mind...bird could beat one of the complete defensive players of all time...and a very good offensive player in a game of one on one... even though logic says they are wrong


again....micheal cooper locked down bird in a team game.....running through screens, picks....in a no zone era...

pippen would bother bird on defense and blow past him on offense

case closed
You know what's funny is that a lot of people feel the same way. Bird does get overrated due to his being whit. And this is a prime example of it.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

I pride myself on being the biggest bulls homer that frequents this forum. I'm in historic and present day bulls threads more than any other bulls fan.

I believe you are the one that doesn't understand birds game my friend. Birds games wasn't one that's condusive to 1 on 1. That's why I can't understand why the pro bird camp insists on centering their arguments around what bird did in an nba setting.

I guess I should shouldn't have used the word capable. I just don't see bird being a strong iso player. That wasn't his game.

Steve Nash is one of the most fundamentally sound PGs ever, but in a game of 1 on 1 where man defense and isolation becomes more paramount, I don't see him being able to beat, john wall for example. Cuz he can't stay in front of him
Being a homer means you have an irrational attachment to your team.. anyway..

You don't see Bird being a strong ISO player? Birds game isn't conducive to 1vs 1?

Did your mother smoke crack when she was pregnant with you? What is wrong with you??

Do you really think that Bird scored however many 40 and 50 point games strictly off situational plays? And couldn't create his own shot? Thats basically what you are saying is that bird was a product of his system. I mean someone posted a video where he posts up scottie 1 on 1 and jordan comes over to help and he still drains it in their faces. But being able to do that is of course not conducive to 1 on 1.

I mean for the love of christ, bird has like 2 40 point triple doubles in a row where he scores with only his left hand. Does that tell you anything about Bird's game?

You realise bird was usually covered by the other teams best and most athletic defender.. right?

I dont even know where to go from here... just the fact that you are talking about this like Bird doesn't even have a chance tells me you are retarted or the biggest bulls homer ever like you admitted. So you're not being rational anyway.

[bwink23]

Being a homer means you have an irrational attachment to your team.. anyway..

You don't see Bird being a strong ISO player? Birds game isn't conducive to 1vs 1?

Did your mother smoke crack when she was pregnant with you? What is wrong with you??

Do you really think that Bird scored however many 40 and 50 point games strictly off situational plays? And couldn't create his own shot? Thats basically what you are saying is that bird was a product of his system. I mean someone posted a video where he posts up scottie 1 on 1 and jordan comes over to help and he still drains it in their faces. But being able to do that is of course not conducive to 1 on 1.

I mean for the love of christ, bird has like 2 40 point triple doubles in a row where he scores with only his left hand. Does that tell you anything about Bird's game?

You realise bird was usually covered by the other teams best and most athletic defender.. right?

I dont even know where to go from here... just the fact that you are talking about this like Bird doesn't even have a chance tells me you are retarted or the biggest bulls homer ever like you admitted. So you're not being rational anyway.


He' talking like this is something new and has never happened before....Bird has smoked Pippen many times in the past in 1 on 1 situations, so i don't see where the hell he's coming from with this crap.

[Brunch@Five]

Bird is the best offensive player of all time. He topped out at 30ppg playing team -oriented. He's one of the best post players of all time. He's arguably the best shooter ever. He never at any point in his career had a problem getting his shot off and is one of the best ever at shooting contested jumpers. He could score with either hand, making him one of the most unpredictable scorers ever too.
On top of that he also has extremely great footwork. He wasn't fast, but always a very quick player, had great endurance, dexterity, body-control and hand-eye-coordination.

So yes, he could absolutely not score against Pippen consistently.

Pippen on the other hand, has the following offensive qualities that make him an extraordinary threat one-on-one:
he's athletic and fast.

[97 bulls]

Being a homer means you have an irrational attachment to your team.. anyway..

You don't see Bird being a strong ISO player? Birds game isn't conducive to 1vs 1?

Did your mother smoke crack when she was pregnant with you? What is wrong with you??

Do you really think that Bird scored however many 40 and 50 point games strictly off situational plays? And couldn't create his own shot? Thats basically what you are saying is that bird was a product of his system. I mean someone posted a video where he posts up scottie 1 on 1 and jordan comes over to help and he still drains it in their faces. But being able to do that is of course not conducive to 1 on 1.

I mean for the love of christ, bird has like 2 40 point triple doubles in a row where he scores with only his left hand. Does that tell you anything about Bird's game?

You realise bird was usually covered by the other teams best and most athletic defender.. right?

I dont even know where to go from here... just the fact that you are talking about this like Bird doesn't even have a chance tells me you are retarted or the biggest bulls homer ever like you admitted. So you're not being rational anyway.
I'm very rational. I just don't see how a great scorer and poor defender (man defender) trumps a very good scorer and great defender.

[Miller for 3]

I'm very rational. I just don't see how a great scorer and poor defender (man defender) trumps a very good scorer and great defender.

You might be the worst poster on this site and that is saying something.

[Pushxx]

Because the best offensive player beats the best defensive player hands down. How many times in an NBA game do you see a player score on somebody who played perfect defense? Happens every single game.

[RRR3]

You might be the worst poster on this site and that is saying something.

LOLWUT! That 07 Cavs team was 3-1` without Lebron and had the best offense in the league when he didn't play! Replace Lebron with a good 2 way SF like Gerald Wallace and they are the champs. Hop off Lebrick's nuts, he has had stacked teams, HCA, unfair officiating, and biased scorekeepers and still has done nothing of note


Because he never beat Bird's Celtics or the prime Bad Boys, never won without Pippen, and had the worst shooting season of anyone to score over 20ppg?


:roll: :facepalm

[bwink23]

Does anyone hear realize these 2 squared off many times and Bird ate his lunch?? Or are u guys just playing dumb?? :hammerhead:

[RRR3]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=birdla01&p2=pippesc01

[Legends66NBA7]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=birdla01&p2=pippesc01

That really isn't going to help this case though, those were purely during team vs team...

Some of those matchups, Pippen was coming off the bench.

[97 bulls]

:roll: :facepalm
Lol

[bwink23]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y19q9478NUo

Old man, bad back Bird eating some Pippen and Grant for lunch....:pimp:

[97 bulls]

That really isn't going to help this case though, those were purely during team vs team...

Some of those matchups, Pippen was coming off the bench.
Yep. I can't see how anyone refuses to acknowledge this fact.

[bwink23]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5nIsDOA9nQ

Larry Bird getting some of that delicious Brad Seller and Scottie Pippen stew, YUMMY!!

[OhNoTimNoSho]

Yep. I can't see how anyone refuses to acknowledge this fact.
I dont see how this fact has any bearing on your argument...

[bwink23]

That really isn't going to help this case though, those were purely during team vs team...

Some of those matchups, Pippen was coming off the bench.


And some of those match ups, Bird had a bad back....

[nightprowler10]

Bird in a tight contest for me. He was just so versatile.

[bwink23]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmiggKJirm8

Here in 1991, Pippen isn't even guarding Larry Bird...6'10" athletic Horace Grant is....

And Bird proceeds to EAT THAT LUNCH.....:oldlol:

[Legends66NBA7]

And some of those match ups, Bird had a bad back....

Did I pick Pippen ?

I'm saying we can't use the numbers... I would probably still go with Bird, but those number aren't 1 on 1... They never faced each other all the time 1 on 1 either...

[bwink23]

Did I pick Pippen ?

I'm saying we can't use the numbers... I would probably still go with Bird, but those number aren't 1 on 1... They never faced each other all the time 1 on 1 either...


They faced each other in one on one situations on the court many times, and Bird put the screws to Pippen. This "Pippen long athletic" crap belongs in the garbage when your talking Larry Bird.

[TheMan]

Bird is the best offensive player of all time. He topped out at 30ppg playing team -oriented. He's one of the best post players of all time. He's arguably the best shooter ever. He never at any point in his career had a problem getting his shot off and is one of the best ever at shooting contested jumpers. He could score with either hand, making him one of the most unpredictable scorers ever too.
On top of that he also has extremely great footwork. He wasn't fast, but always a very quick player, had great endurance, dexterity, body-control and hand-eye-coordination.

So yes, he could absolutely not score against Pippen consistently.

Pippen on the other hand, has the following offensive qualities that make him an extraordinary threat one-on-one:
he's athletic and fast.
:lol
Bird was so great he only won 3 rings with a stacked Celtics team and got his ass handed to him by Magic more times than he beat him.

Magic>Bird
MJ>>Bird

[bwink23]

:lol
Bird was so great he only won 3 rings with a stacked Celtics team and got his ass handed to him by Magic more times than he beat him.

Magic>Bird
MJ>>Bird


As if Magic's team wasn't stacked.....:facepalm

[TheMan]

As if Magic's team wasn't stacked.....:facepalm
BOTH teams were stacked but Larry was the leader of the Celtics and Magic was the leader of the Lakers and Magic beat Larry 2 out of 3.And they both were in their prime, not like prime Larry going off on a rookie Pippen.

Sadly, Larry's career was cut short by his bum back and it robbed us Bulls fans from watching the Bulls kick Larry's ass in the 90's, albeit an old Larry.

[ralph_i_el]

:roll: :facepalm
:lol owned

[97 bulls]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5nIsDOA9nQ

Larry Bird getting some of that delicious Brad Seller and Scottie Pippen stew, YUMMY!!
This video shows exactly how bird scored. Literrally every shot he took came off a curl, or screen. Every single one. And 90% of those shot were on brad sellers. Thanx for making my case for me

[FKAri]

Larry Bird via post play.

[Legends66NBA7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmiggKJirm8

Here in 1991, Pippen isn't even guarding Larry Bird...6'10" athletic Horace Grant is....

And Bird proceeds to EAT THAT LUNCH.....:oldlol:

The 3 times that Pippen and Bird did matchup...

Bird hit a jumper, Pippen late contest
Pippen gets Bird on the switch and he blows by for a bankshot bucket.
Pippen runs the break, Bird challenges and Pippen still gets the tough bucket (up to you if you want to call that a straight 1 on 1... are we playing full or half court ?)

So they both have their advantages... Bird his size and shooting... Pippen his quickness and overall defense.

I wasn't using the "athletic" arguement there, but that advantage does belong to Pippen, yes. But Bird has other advantages to beat Pippen.

[bwink23]

This video shows exactly how bird scored. Literrally every shot he took came off a curl, or screen. Every single one. And 90% of those shot were on brad sellers. Thanx for making my case for me


Do i have to seriously link you to EVERY ONE of the isolated incidents that didn't involve a pick or curl ?? Do i have to do that for real?? OK, i guess i got to do it with you DENYING ass.

[bwink23]

The 3 times that Pippen and Bird did matchup...

Bird hit a jumper, Pippen late contest
Pippen gets Bird on the switch and he blows by for a bankshot bucket.
Pippen runs the break, Bird challenges and Pippen still gets the tough bucket (up to you if you want to call that a straight 1 on 1... are we playing full or half court ?)

So they both have their advantages... Bird his size and shooting... Pippen his quickness and overall defense.

I wasn't using the "athletic" arguement there, but that advantage does belong to Pippen, yes. But Bird has other advantages to beat Pippen.



Apparently you missed this....

http://s304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Boston%20Celtics/Larry%20Bird/?action=view&current=8e3d6023.gif&sort=ascending

[97 bulls]

Do i have to seriously link you to EVERY ONE of the isolated incidents that didn't involve a pick or curl ?? Do i have to do that for real?? OK, i guess i got to do it with you DENYING ass.
Lol what am I denying? You posted the video. He did a great job comming off screens and curls. But not one shot was made by him breaking a man down in a 1 on 1 setting. Not one shot.

[TheMan]

This video shows exactly how bird scored. Literrally every shot he took came off a curl, or screen. Every single one. And 90% of those shot were on brad sellers. Thanx for making my case for me
Yes, Larry was not an ISO player, he had a jumpshot that was hard to stop because he shot it from behind his head but he hardly ever beat anyone to the rim on ISO.

These YouTube videos are decieving because I could make a video to make it look like Larry could take anybody off the dribble by using the few times he beat someone to the hole but that wasn't his game, I watched him from the mid 80's on.He used screens, pumped faked, shot on the move or cut to the hole, he was really good off the ball and an excellent passer, but that doesn't translate on a 1v1.

[bdreason]

Pippen would get lit up. How is this thread even multiple pages?

[Legends66NBA7]

Apparently you missed this....

http://s304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Boston%20Celtics/Larry%20Bird/?action=view&current=8e3d6023.gif&sort=ascending

No I didnt, I saw you post that before... but what does that have to do with that clip ?

The gif on photobucket says 1988.. the clip says 1991... and two completely different plays and players at each point in time.

I was just referring to the video clip you sent.

[bwink23]

Lol what am I denying? You posted the video. He did a great job comming off screens and curls. But not one shot was made by him breaking a man down in a 1 on 1 setting. Not one shot.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOTJQbRWu7g

9:30 and 11:17 of the video...i suggest you go to tjhunt1976 and watch some FULL games dude....:no:

[Brunch@Five]

do some guys here really insinuate that Pippen might be a better offensive player, even 1on1? The only advantage he has over Bird is athletic ability. 1on1 is way more reliant on skill than it is on athleticism.
You guys act like Bird was slow and unathletic. This is not the case. He had very quick feet, hands and great instincts. Pippen wouldn't get by him easily. Bird however wouldn't even need to get by Pippen because he could shoot over him or post him up.

I doubt anyone picking Pippen here has ever played against a skilled player 1on1.

[bwink23]

Lol what am I denying? You posted the video. He did a great job comming off screens and curls. But not one shot was made by him breaking a man down in a 1 on 1 setting. Not one shot.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z7g5xPdtDE

Look at the hook shot on Charles Davis at 13 minutes...What Pippen gonna do with that?? :wtf:

[97 bulls]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOTJQbRWu7g

9:30 and 11:17 of the video...i suggest you go to tjhunt1976 and watch some FULL games dude....:no:
Lol one play he legitly posted pippen up. The other, was off a fastbreak. Still, most of his shots were off screens and curls

[97 bulls]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z7g5xPdtDE

Look at the hook shot on Charles Davis at 13 minutes...What Pippen gonna do with that?? :wtf:
I also saw charles davis blow right past bird.

[bwink23]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ9ufyjqXXY

Larry Bird goes by Pippen at 1:40

[97 bulls]

do some guys here really insinuate that Pippen might be a better offensive player, even 1on1? The only advantage he has over Bird is athletic ability. 1on1 is way more reliant on skill than it is on athleticism.
You guys act like Bird was slow and unathletic. This is not the case. He had very quick feet, hands and great instincts. Pippen wouldn't get by him easily. Bird however wouldn't even need to get by Pippen because he could shoot over him or post him up.

I doubt anyone picking Pippen here has ever played against a skilled player 1on1.
Are you watching the vids bwink is posting? They're litered with birds comming off screens and picks. There's a reason the celts offense was designed this way. Cuz bird wasn't an iso player.

[Legends66NBA7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z7g5xPdtDE

Look at the hook shot on Charles Davis at 13 minutes...What Pippen gonna do with that?? :wtf:

11:30-11:40 needs to be made into a GIF, ASAP.

[bwink23]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEGjrTWdF24

Larry Bird sticks jumper on Pippen at 5:50

[ILLsmak]

I think with what you said, with jump ball, Pippen would likely win. Even in 1s and 2s the person who can get the most lay ups and the occasional stop is the one who wins 1v1. If the game was based on each player shooting jumpers from the top of the 3 point line and the first person to miss had to be on D first then Larry would have more of a chance. Who is throwing this jump ball? lol.

I've never seen a jump ball in street ball.

-Smak

[1987_Lakers]

97 bulls is the biggest bulls/pippen homer on this site, don't take him too seriously on these kinds of debates.

BTW I hate these types of threads, never been a 1 v 1 guy, basketball is a team sport & Bird is superior to Pippen as a player.

[1987_Lakers]

I think with what you said, with jump ball, Pippen would likely win. Even in 1s and 2s the person who can get the most lay ups and the occasional stop is the one who wins 1v1. If the game was based on each player shooting jumpers from the top of the 3 point line and the first person to miss had to be on D first then Larry would have more of a chance. Who is throwing this jump ball? lol.

I've never seen a jump ball in street ball.

-Smak

Bird winning a jump ball over Hakeem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iVQc6LSGCI&t (33:30 mark)

[97 bulls]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ9ufyjqXXY

Larry Bird goes by Pippen at 1:40
He didn't go by pippen. It looks like paxson was on him. The camera comes in on the play too late.

It did show pippen beat bird for an easy lay-up at the 20 second mark, and then he was about to drive on him before help defense came over.

[dude77]

I'm not sure bird could beat gerald green in a game of 1 on 1.

the question is .. after reading this little gem, I don't understand why anyone is arguing with this kid ?

when you're that diluted, you can't be reasoned with

[bwink23]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMB4yYMA3WA

Larry Bird hitting game winner over Pippen and Jordan who was going over to give Pippen MUCH NEEDED help....at 5:50...:D

[Jotaro Durant]

I think with what you said, with jump ball, Pippen would likely win. Even in 1s and 2s the person who can get the most lay ups and the occasional stop is the one who wins 1v1. If the game was based on each player shooting jumpers from the top of the 3 point line and the first person to miss had to be on D first then Larry would have more of a chance. Who is throwing this jump ball? lol.

I've never seen a jump ball in street ball.

-Smak

i thought shoot for ball would be unfair:oldlol:

cant do coint toss either :confusedshrug:

[97 bulls]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEGjrTWdF24

Larry Bird sticks jumper on Pippen at 5:50
Lol again, he uses a screen to get open. Are you watching the same thing I am? Jesus

[bwink23]

He didn't go by pippen. It looks like paxson was on him. The camera comes in on the play too late.

It did show pippen beat bird for an easy lay-up at the 20 second mark, and then he was about to drive on him before help defense came over.


Check it again Mister DENIAL...Pippen behind Bird in the lane on the drive...you got ISSUES dude LOL!!!

[97 bulls]

I think with what you said, with jump ball, Pippen would likely win. Even in 1s and 2s the person who can get the most lay ups and the occasional stop is the one who wins 1v1. If the game was based on each player shooting jumpers from the top of the 3 point line and the first person to miss had to be on D first then Larry would have more of a chance. Who is throwing this jump ball? lol.

I've never seen a jump ball in street ball.

-Smak
Exactly.

[97 bulls]

Check it again Mister DENIAL...Pippen behind Bird in the lane on the drive...you got ISSUES dude LOL!!!
Behind bird? He's behind parrish and fouls him when bird dishes off to him. The camera comes in too late to see how the play unfolded.

[bwink23]

Lol again, he uses a screen to get open. Are you watching the same thing I am? Jesus



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b57iX7KKLUg

Larry Bird shooting over the top of 7'0" Brad Sellers (LONGER than Pippen), and Scottie Pippen as well...WETNESS, too easy for Larry Legend..:cheers:

[1987_Lakers]

the question is .. after reading this little gem, I don't understand why anyone is arguing with this kid ?

when you're that diluted, you can't be reasoned with
:oldlol:

[97 bulls]

97 bulls is the biggest bulls/pippen homer on this site, don't take him too seriously on these kinds of debates.

BTW I hate these types of threads, never been a 1 v 1 guy, basketball is a team sport & Bird is superior to Pippen as a player.
I think they're arguing based on who they feel is a better player.

[dude77]

97 bulls

no use.....lot of so called hoop fans see bird's color...not his game strengths/weaknesses

so in their mind...bird could beat one of the complete defensive players of all time...and a very good offensive player in a game of one on one... even though logic says they are wrong


again....micheal cooper locked down bird in a team game.....running through screens, picks....in a no zone era...

pippen would bother bird on defense and blow past him on offense

case closed

no smart guy .. it's the exact opposite :facepalm .. his damn color is precisely why the great larry bird is being dogged in this thread .. because he's white .. therefore he must be slow and inferior :facepalm

this thread is a classic case of the 'slow white man mentality syndrome' .. 'aw he's white, he must be slow and clumsy footed, he can't do it' .. you make up any scenario involving bird and a black player and they will automatically choose the black player ..

classic example .. the poster 97 bulls saying gerald green would beat up on larry bird .. why do you think he said that ? :hammerhead:

.. what they're too stupid to see is that bird played people who were mostly all more athletic than him and he still dominated them .. one on one too .. pippen wouldn't have it so easy 'blowing by' bird .. his quickness is mistakenly being underestimated in this thread

[Pushxx]

97 bulls confirmed for most biased/delusional poster I've ever seen on an internet forum.

Gerald Green over Larry Bird in 1 on 1. :facepalm

[97 bulls]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b57iX7KKLUg

Larry Bird shooting over the top of 7'0" Brad Sellers (LONGER than Pippen), and Scottie Pippen as well...WETNESS, too easy for Larry Legend..:cheers:
Its brad sellers you moron. He's a friggn stiff just a taller one how long did he stay in the league? I don't believe your centering your argument around brad sellers.

And once again you show a clip of bird having to be chased through a screen. Screens and curls aren't isos

[koBEDABEST]

Again, these are pros. Even more hofers, even more than that all-time great hofers. You can't just give a guy like pippen open space. He's gonna make it. Especially if birds gonna give him the jumpshot. And with pippens footspeed, bird would need to give a lot of ground.

And why would pippen negate his advantage by trying to back down bird? Makes no sense.

This. An NBA player is an NBA player. They can hit jump shots like throwing a raisin in a pool when uncontested and without NBA Game defense/atmosphere. They practice that shit daily. Larry cant just back off Pippen, and neither can Pippen off Larry. They would need to play tight D. It comes to who is the best 1on1 player.

Who is?

But then again, Pippen has an advantage with his D, right.

[97 bulls]

97 bulls confirmed for most biased/delusional poster I've ever seen on an internet forum.

Gerald Green over Larry Bird in 1 on 1. :facepalm
I said, I'm not sure bird could beat green. Don't you understand birds gonna have to play defense too.

Id give an edge to bird cuz I don't think green is much of a dribbler. And has no jumshot. He'd back off him and dare him to shoot and stay on his right hand.

[RaininTwos]

They are both legends, the competitive will be even. Even the best players have lost 1-on-1 battles to much lesser competition, not that Pippen is way less than Bird. Even if they played 5 on 5 and had to guard each other I wouldn't know who to choose.

[koBEDABEST]

U guys r rly dumb thinking NBA players cant hit uncontested jumpshots... in the playground.

[bwink23]

http://www.youtube.com/user/tjhunt1976#p/search/1/v2jFb6azi7I

Bird goes around Pippen at 31:05.


Bird hits turnaround fade on Pippen at 32:45.

Bird sticks 3-pointer in Pippen's grill at 1:14.


ALL DAY !! :no:

[bwink23]

Its brad sellers you moron. He's a friggn stiff just a taller one how long did he stay in the league? I don't believe your centering your argument around brad sellers.

And once again you show a clip of bird having to be chased through a screen. Screens and curls aren't isos


2 shots over Brad Sellers and the last one over Scottie Pippen in the video...WATCH IT AGAIN SON, and LISTEN!!!

[97 bulls]

They are both legends, the competitive will be even. Even the best players have lost 1-on-1 battles to much lesser competition, not that Pippen is way less than Bird. Even if they played 5 on 5 and had to guard each other I wouldn't know who to choose.
I remember during the 00 finals, reggie miller was being interviewed and someone asked about him playing kobe bryant one on one a few years prior. Kobe beat miller. Miller admitted it. And this was a young kobe bryant. Vs miller who was a great jump shooter like bird. But his defense leaves something to be desired. And that's probably what was the difference.

Its just too hard to overcome iso 1 on 1 when one man can defend and score while the other can just score. This would be the scenario in a pippen/bird matchup. And no amount of clips showing bird shooting over brad sellers would change that.

[bwink23]

I said, I'm not sure bird could beat green. Don't you understand birds gonna have to play defense too.

Id give an edge to bird cuz I don't think green is much of a dribbler. And has no jumshot. He'd back off him and dare him to shoot and stay on his right hand.



You expose yourself with every post kid, KEEP IT COMING! :D

[97 bulls]

2 shots over Brad Sellers and the last one over Scottie Pippen in the video...WATCH IT AGAIN SON, and LISTEN!!!
I watched it. Pippen had to chase Bird through a screen. And I don't give a shit about what he (bird) did vs brad sellers.

[TheMan]

no smart guy .. it's the exact opposite :facepalm .. his damn color is precisely why the great larry bird is being dogged in this thread .. because he's white .. therefore he must be slow and inferior :facepalm

this thread is a classic case of the 'slow white man mentality syndrome' .. 'aw he's white, he must be slow and clumsy footed, he can't do it' .. you make up any scenario involving bird and a black player and they will automatically choose the black player ..

classic example .. the poster 97 bulls saying gerald green would beat up on larry bird .. why do you think he said that ? :hammerhead:

.. what they're too stupid to see is that bird played people who were mostly all more athletic than him and he still dominated them .. one on one too .. pippen wouldn't have it so easy 'blowing by' bird .. his quickness is mistakenly being underestimated in this thread
Naw dude, Bird gets overrated because he's white, don't get me wrong, he's an all time great but he is not better than Jordan, Magic, Wilt or KAJ for example.

Bird won 3 titles with that Celtics team, should've won more, Magic spanked Bird 2 out of 3 times...Larry is a legend but he's not the greatest, stop overrating him.

[bwink23]

I watched it. Pippen had to chase Bird through a screen. And I don't give a shit about what he (bird) did vs brad sellers.


LOL!!! are you DENYING that Bird hit a turn around over Pippen in the post?? He wasn't chasing Bird when Bird had him pinned for the inevitable 2 points...you are TOO FUNNY dude seriously.

[dude77]

Naw dude, Bird gets overrated because he's white, don't get me wrong, he's an all time great but he is not better than Jordan, Magic, Wilt or KAJ for example.

Bird won 3 titles with that Celtics team, should've won more, Magic spanked Bird 2 out of 3 times...Larry is a legend but he's not the greatest, stop overrating him.


funny you say that because you could argue a lot of black players get overrated because they're black .. :rolleyes:

as for overrating him .. who's overrating him ? he's one of the GOAT .. how the fk do you 'overrate' that ? that's like saying 'stop overrating wilt or magic or .. ' .. :hammerhead: the fact that you utter such a dumbass comment about overrating him shows your bias against him

[TheMan]

funny you say that because you could argue a lot of black players get overrated because they're black .. :rolleyes:
Like who?
The greatest NBA players are mostly black, you don't need to overrate black players since they cornered the market on GOAT players.

[bwink23]

Naw dude, Bird gets overrated because he's white, don't get me wrong, he's an all time great but he is not better than Jordan, Magic, Wilt or KAJ for example.

Bird won 3 titles with that Celtics team, should've won more, Magic spanked Bird 2 out of 3 times...Larry is a legend but he's not the greatest, stop overrating him.


Magic Johnson quote on Larry Bird..."Alot of black guys ask me, could Larry Bird really play...i said Man, Larry Bird was so good it's frightening."

Doesn't sound overrated to me!

[dude77]

Like who?
The greatest NBA players are mostly black, you don't need to overrate black players since they cornered the market on GOAT players.

plenty of black players who aren't as good as they're made out to be .. but they're PROPPED UP because they're black .. don't be stupid now

[97 bulls]

LOL!!! are you DENYING that Bird hit a turn around over Pippen in the post?? He wasn't chasing Bird when Bird had him pinned for the inevitable 2 points...you are TOO FUNNY dude seriously.
Not before he came through a pick and screen. Youve shown almost an hours worth of clips showing bird vs a young bulls team. And most of his scores are off of picks and screens. Only three times did I see bird post anyone up. And most of his scores were on brad sellers.

[bwink23]

Not before he came through a pick and screen. Youve shown almost an hours worth of clips showing bird vs a young bulls team. And most of his scores are off of picks and screens. Only three times did I see bird post anyone up. And most of his scores were on brad sellers.


You idiot...you aren't watching closely dude. I'll let the vids speak for themselves...:pimp:

[97 bulls]

plenty of black players who aren't as good as they're made out to be .. but they're PROPPED UP because they're black .. don't be stupid now
Oh come off it. If a black guy stinks, he stinks. Look at kwame brown, michael olowankandi, harold "baby jordan" miner. The list goes on and on.

[bwink23]

Not before he came through a pick and screen. Youve shown almost an hours worth of clips showing bird vs a young bulls team. And most of his scores are off of picks and screens. Only three times did I see bird post anyone up. And most of his scores were on brad sellers.


DUH dim wit....Bird was declining as well, dealing with age and injury...he made a young Pippen (23 years old) carry his bags....:rockon:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

A lot of fail in this thread. Not surprised considering half the people in this thread were born in the 90's. :oldlol:

[bwink23]

Oh come off it. If a black guy stinks, he stinks. Look at kwame brown, michael olowankandi, harold "baby jordan" miner. The list goes on and on.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19KVfK1xSdo


at 3:50, Scottie says he's always welcome to take a back seat to Larry Bird, LOL....homer :rockon:

[Legends66NBA7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19KVfK1xSdo


at 3:50, Scottie says he's always welcome to take a back seat to Larry Bird, LOL....homer :rockon:

Who in this thread said Pippen > Bird, as far as their careers/players go ?

[dude77]

Oh come off it. If a black guy stinks, he stinks. Look at kwame brown, michael olowankandi, harold "baby jordan" miner. The list goes on and on.

I agree with you .. and when compared with a white player .. more frequently than not those players would be regarded as superior .. everyone knows this .. 'slow white man inferior syndrome' :rolleyes: .. so that right there skews your analysis .. it's automatically biased

[Micku]

Well, anybody could beat each other one on one in the pros. I think I read an article how Fisher beat Kobe one on one a few times whenever they go at out. You even see guys like Sam Cassel vs Ray Allen or something.

With that said, I think I'll go with Bird. Bird would probably post Pippen up and shoot over him. But it would be fun.

[Pushxx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19KVfK1xSdo


at 3:50, Scottie says he's always welcome to take a back seat to Larry Bird, LOL....homer :rockon:

Man that's a really nice interview. Respect to NBA legends.

[Micku]

Do you really think bird has the footspeed to stay in front of pippen?

Eh. Well, Bird could sag back and dared him to shoot the jumper. Besides, it's not like he never defend ppl who were as fast like Wilkins, Worthy, Dr. J and others. It's not like they went by Bird every time that he guarded them. And it depends the type of defense that they'll play. If they are allowed to be physical and stuff.

Besides, it's one on one. Anything can happen. It's not like it's anything serious.

[97 bulls]

I agree with you .. and when compared with a white player .. more frequently than not those players would be regarded as superior .. everyone knows this .. 'slow white man inferior syndrome' :rolleyes: .. so that right there skews your analysis .. it's automatically biased
If your fast and can jump out the gym, then your fast and can jump out the gym. Look at chris "birdman" anderson, dan "thunder dan" majrle, rex chapman, brent barry. Name a white guy that you feel is super athletic that hasn't got their due.

Bird has a rep for being slow-a-foot cuz well.....he was slow-a-foot. He buttered his bread with a wet jumper, high intangibles, being able to move well off the ball, timely passing, and clutch shots, and being great and being a free safety on defense.

[97 bulls]

Eh. Well, Bird could sag back and dared him to shoot the jumper. Besides, it's not like he never defend ppl who were as fast like Wilkins, Worthy, Dr. J and others. It's not like they went by Bird every time that he guarded them. And it depends the type of defense that they'll play. If they are allowed to be physical and stuff.

Besides, it's one on one. Anything can happen. It's not like it's anything serious.
But you leave out 2 things mick. He either had help or didn't guard them.

And I'm assuming that in a one on one setting its gonna get physical since there's no refs.

[dude77]

If your fast and can jump out the gym, then your fast and can jump out the gym. Look at chris "birdman" anderson, dan "thunder dan" majrle, rex chapman, brent barry. Name a white guy that you feel is super athletic that hasn't got their due.

Bird has a rep for being slow-a-foot cuz well.....he was slow-a-foot. He buttered his bread with a wet jumper, high intangibles, being able to move well off the ball, timely passing, and clutch shots, and being great and being a free safety on defense.

I get you but you keep missing the point .. now compare majerle, chapman, barry to another group, of black players at the same position .. which group is gonna be touted as 'faster', 'more athletic' .. this is the mentality that you have and most other people have .. it's fking up your argument because you're clearly biased

[Micku]

But you leave out 2 things mick. He either had help or didn't guard them.

And I'm assuming that in a one on one setting its gonna get physical since there's no refs.

It's a mixture of everything. Sometimes he wouldn't guard him because he would be grabbing boards. Sometimes he would guard them, and stop them from driving every once and a while or help would come. There will be instances where Bird would have to guard one on one without help against those guys, and he did ok. He even guarded Michael Jordan at one point and stopped him from driving. Bottom line is that he wasn't the worst one on one defenders ever. He could hold his own against those guys. That's how it is in the NBA.

Yeah. So, they could probably beat each other. It's no big deal or anything like that. Fisher could beat Kobe one on one sometimes and etc. Who would win the most is something you would never know, but it's still no big deal. Nothing to lose your sock over for.

[97 bulls]

I get you but you keep missing the point .. now compare majerle, chapman, barry to another group, of black players at the same position .. which group is gonna be touted as 'faster', 'more athletic' .. this is the mentality that you have and most other people have .. it's fking up your argument because you're clearly biased
I get your point. A white basketball player is similar to a black quarterback in that they must work alittle harder to prove themselves. But I stand by the notion that if your good, you'll get a shot.

In an effort to answer your question...

Jr rider id say is similar to dan majrle, but id take marjle over him if both are in their primes and rider has his head on straight.

Id say chris anderson is similar to serge ibaka

Rex chapman maybe tyreke evans

Now answer this question for me, what whit guy do you feel is in the nba that doesn't get their due

[97 bulls]

I get you but you keep missing the point .. now compare majerle, chapman, barry to another group, of black players at the same position .. which group is gonna be touted as 'faster', 'more athletic' .. this is the mentality that you have and most other people have .. it's fking up your argument because you're clearly biased
Also dude, I'm not one of those guys that feels blacks are better basketball players than whites. I honestly would take john stockton over magic (which I've gottne laughed at for saying lol), I feel toni kukoc is wayyy underrated, and would take him over lamar odom easily.

[Bernie Nips]

Naw dude, Bird gets overrated because he's white, don't get me wrong, he's an all time great but he is not better than Jordan, Magic, Wilt or KAJ for example.

Bird won 3 titles with that Celtics team, should've won more, Magic spanked Bird 2 out of 3 times...Larry is a legend but he's not the greatest, stop overrating him.

I'd have him better than Magic.

Magic beat Bird twice in the Finals, sure. But did Bird have another Top 10 GOAT on his team? Nope. Bird was just something else. Those who underrate him now are doing it with revisionist history. At the time, he was being discussed as the GOAT. That's AFTER Russell, Wilt, KAJ's prime and at the same time as Magic's.

Nowadays people don't go back and watch full games of Bird, Magic, KAJ and all the other greats, they go off reputation, stats, accolades and rings. What Bird accomplished was insane. Took a 29 win team to 61 wins in his rookie year. Sure, Magic got a ring in his rookie year, but he had KAJ on his team (who won the MVP that year). What did Bird have?

[Teanett]

bird can not drive on pip.
it depends if his jumper is on.
21 makes vs pip? i dont think so i'd be very close.

[Teanett]

Also dude, I'm not one of those guys that feels blacks are better basketball players than whites. I honestly would take john stockton over magic (which I've gottne laughed at for saying lol), I feel toni kukoc is wayyy underrated, and would take him over lamar odom easily.
kukoc>>>>odom

[Brunch@Five]

this guy just compared Bird to Reggie Miller offensively. There is nothing more to say :facepalm

[97 bulls]

this guy just compared Bird to Reggie Miller offensively. There is nothing more to say :facepalm
Who compared bird to miller offensively? I hope you don't mean me. I said their styles are similar. Similar in that they both looked to score off picks and screens and curls. And had wet jumpers. And really didn't attack the basket off the dribble.

[Lebron23]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=birdla01&p2=pippesc01

Pippen and Bird (Head to head matchup)

[get these NETS]

You know what's funny is that a lot of people feel the same way. Bird does get overrated due to his being whit. And this is a prime example of it.

Isiah Thomas caught heat for telling the truth..and years later Bird admitted,as Pacers GM, that NBA needs more good white players to attract bigger fanbase.


Bird and Magic documentary touches on how Bird's emergence in the league helped fuel more (white) fans watching the sport.

Identifying with a player isn't wrong, but when it starts clouding your judgment...there might be a problem. Lot of confused insecure people in this thread.

In their mind Bird was a slow hard working white guy..shiiiiiitttttt!!!

Bird was no more or less athletic than Magic..but since he is white....much easier for fans to believe that he had no physical "gifts" and wasn't an elite Division 1 athlete...but just a hard working guy .
If you look at the SF position in Bird's era.....it was LOADED with exceptional great players, multiskilled....and almost none of them were super athletic...Nique being the exception....

[Pushxx]

Who compared bird to miller offensively? I hope you don't mean me. I said their styles are similar. Similar in that they both looked to score off picks and screens and curls. And had wet jumpers. And really didn't attack the basket off the dribble.

LOL @ Bird "not attacking the basket off the dribble."

Final piece of evidence you have no idea what you're talking about or only see the world through your homer eyes.

[97 bulls]

LOL @ Bird "not attacking the basket off the dribble."

Final piece of evidence you have no idea what you're talking about or only see the world through your homer eyes.
Lol as if your view isn't seen through celtic green bifocles. And no bird didn't attack off the dribble. And let me xpand on this concept cuz your kinda simple when it comes to basketball.

When I say off the dribble, I'm refering to his inability to get the ball at the top of the three point line and break his man down in an iso.

[97 bulls]

Isiah Thomas caught heat for telling the truth..and years later Bird admitted,as Pacers GM, that NBA needs more good white players to attract bigger fanbase.


Bird and Magic documentary touches on how Bird's emergence in the league helped fuel more (white) fans watching the sport.

Identifying with a player isn't wrong, but when it starts clouding your judgment...there might be a problem. Lot of confused insecure people in this thread.

In their mind Bird was a slow hard working white guy..shiiiiiitttttt!!!

Bird was no more or less athletic than Magic..but since he is white....much easier for fans to believe that he had no physical "gifts" and wasn't an elite Division 1 athlete...but just a hard working guy .
If you look at the SF position in Bird's era.....it was LOADED with exceptional great players, multiskilled....and almost none of them were super athletic...Nique being the exception....
I honestly feel the way some of these people see it, if they admit pippen could take bird 1on 1, then somehow that must mean pippen should be ranked higher or is a better basketball player overall. When all it does is cater to pippens strength. The outcome would be far different if they were in a shooting contest. And bird was more dominant in the pro game.

Its no different than my feeling that steve kerr would outshoot michael jordan if they were in a shooting contest

[eliteballer]

Bird would murder him in the post, Pippen was a weak post defender

[Pushxx]

When I say off the dribble, I'm refering to his inability to get the ball at the top of the three point line and break his man down in an iso.

When I say off the dribble, I mean off the dribble.

[97 bulls]

When I say off the dribble, I mean off the dribble.
What him catch the ball off a curl, bounce the ball once and take a shot? No that not off the dribble.

[97 bulls]

Bird would murder him in the post, Pippen was a weak post defender
Take a look at this vid of pippens defense. In it, he defends, barkley, webber, ewing, terry cummings, and danny manning in the post. And I m talking all facets of post play, be it straight up post position defense, fronting (notice how barkley tries to root and and push him off the block and flatout cant), and how webber and ewing try to back him down.

Also notice how often he's able to block his opponants jumpshot. And the man defense he's able to play.

And how many chase down blocks he gets ala lebron james.

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=N9vFHYVXtRk

[ralph_i_el]

What him catch the ball off a curl, bounce the ball once and take a shot? No that not off the dribble.

are you trying to say the dude never drove to the hoop? because that just isn't true

[Pushxx]

are you trying to say the dude never drove to the hoop? because that just isn't true

He's just a huge troll. Talking like Reggie Miller and Scottie Pippen are in the same league as Larry Bird LOL

[97 bulls]

are you trying to say the dude never drove to the hoop? because that just isn't true
Off course not. Bird has also dunked but I wouldn't call him a high-flyer.

[97 bulls]

He's just a huge troll. Talking like Reggie Miller and Scottie Pippen are in the same league as Larry Bird LOL
I said millers offensive game is similar to birds. And pippens not that far off from bird

[TheMan]

I said millers offensive game is similar to birds. And pippens not that far off from bird
This thread is full of fail.

Some posters not giving Bird his due and others propping him up as the GOAT

GTFO:facepalm

[97 bulls]

This thread is full of fail.

Some posters not giving Bird his due and others propping him up as the GOAT

GTFO:facepalm
How am I not giving bird his due by comparing his offensive game to reggie millers? Both were great shooters, who used picks and screens to get open. You guys thinks he's the only person capable of scoring like that? My god why are you guys acting as if bird can walk on water, and change water to wine?

Andre iguodalas game is very similar to scottie pippens. Is that an insult to pippen?

I used that miller/bryant comparison to show how hard it is for a guy without a strong iso game limited dribble, and weak as a man defender, to beat a guy wiith a strong iso game and can play defense. Most if not all of birds strengths aren't gonna manifest themselves in a game of 1 on 1 vs a super talented athlete, and defender that can dribble and has a decent jumper.

[TheMan]

How am I not giving bird his due by comparing his offensive game to reggie millers? Both were great shooters, who used picks and screens to get open. You guys thinks he's the only person capable of scoring like that? My god why are you guys acting as if bird can walk on water, and change water to wine?

Andre iguodalas game is very similar to scottie pippens. Is that an insult to pippen?

I used that miller/bryant comparison to show how hard it is for a guy without a strong iso game limited dribble, and weak as a man defender, to beat a guy wiith a strong iso game and can play defense. Most if not all of birds strengths aren't gonna manifest themselves in a game of 1 on 1 vs a super talented athlete, and defender that can dribble and has a decent jumper.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeULq4vrToU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
watch this video and tell me what part of Miller's you see in it, especially his passing.

Look, I'm a fellow Bulls fan, I have no beef with you but when you compare Miller to Bird, well, that's just nonsense.

Bird was much more than a 3pt shooter which was basically all Miller was, Bird could post up, make the right pass and even though he wasn't the fastest guy on the floor, ran a fast break really well.Bird>>>>Miller

The original idea of this thread was who would win between Pip and Bird in a 1v1, we all have different opinions on that, I happen to think Pip could win solely on the fact that Pip was an elite defender ad man defense wasn't Larry's greatest attribute, I could be wrong but we'll never know unless someonei nvents a time machine...one thing for sure, it would be fun to watch.

[TheMan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tObgS6uUVjQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Scottie Pippen:bowdown:

A Larry Lagend vs Scottie Pippen pick-up game would be dream for hoops fans...two totally different types of players going at it:rockon:

[Pushxx]

Serously 97 bulls...just watch the video TheMan posted and then you tell me Reggie Miller and Larry Bird were similar offensively.

Also, I dare you to tell me again that he doesn't take people off the dribble. ALL HE DID was take people off the dribble or post them up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeULq4vrToU

[97 bulls]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeULq4vrToU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
watch this video and tell me what part of Miller's you see in it, especially his passing.

Look, I'm a fellow Bulls fan, I have no beef with you but when you compare Miller to Bird, well, that's just nonsense.

Bird was much more than a 3pt shooter which was basically all Miller was, Bird could post up, make the right pass and even though he wasn't the fastest guy on the floor, ran a fast break really well.Bird>>>>Miller

The original idea of this thread was who would win between Pip and Bird in a 1v1, we all have different opinions on that, I happen to think Pip could win solely on the fact that Pip was an elite defender ad man defense wasn't Larry's greatest attribute, I could be wrong but we'll never know unless someonei nvents a time machine...one thing for sure, it would be fun to watch.
I'm not talking about their offense as a whole. Just the way they score the ball. Which is why miller couldn't beat a young kobe bryant. He just doesn't have the iso skills pertinant to being a great 1 on 1 player. Bird is the same way. And neithers man defense is up to par.

But I'm not in any way shape or form implying that miller was a good as bird. Bird was the better passer, rebounder, had better intangibles. And his help defense was better than millers was. But the way they scored was very similar.

[97 bulls]

Serously 97 bulls...just watch the video TheMan posted and then you tell me Reggie Miller and Larry Bird were similar offensively.

Also, I dare you to tell me again that he doesn't take people off the dribble. ALL HE DID was take people off the dribble or post them up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeULq4vrToU
You don't know what taking people off the dribble is bro.

[La Frescobaldi]

Lol what am I denying? You posted the video. He did a great job comming off screens and curls. But not one shot was made by him breaking a man down in a 1 on 1 setting. Not one shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_nfsq4pTpI

clips of Bird beating his man 1on1 (or even entire teams)

#10
#8
#6
#5
#3
#1

If Bird can fake an entire team, his fakes were pretty good

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kfYnqiVK34

And funny enough that same fake worked hundreds of times, all over the court, even though everybody watched film of Bird by the hour. Must have been something hypnotic about it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MUjJABeyus

Beating his man from :50 & then 1:50 showing 1on1 in the open court smokage.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=II2MqmI4Wjw


It's a laugh that people still say Bird was unathletic, slow, can't jump and so forth. His first step beat everyone in the league for 10 years, just fact. he constantly outran the court for at least 8 years, just fact... he could throw down flashy dunks in early days but why? That don't count for more than a layup which is less tiring thus he was more effective at the end of the game.

He took advantage of that moron unathletic perception for an entire career.

Naturally people will say Bird scored off curls, single dribbles and so forth. But that doesn't show a player's limitations, that is the premier mark of outstanding team play... the perfect set, the perfect pass, the perfect curl, single dribble and swish. No 80s Celtic would dream of dribbling for 15 seconds at the top of the key while the rest of his team went and sat down, then driving that's just not how those teams played basketball. Anybody remember Sidney Wicks on the Celtics? LOLOL that kind of iso game just didn't fit in with the Celtics.........

Over the years there have been some players that simply had unstoppable offense - NOBODY could stop those guys. Chamberlain, Jerry West, Jabbar, Pistol, Jordan, Kobe, a few others.... Bird is in that category.

Pip on the other hand was stoppable by NBA level defenders. If you denied his drive, he was looking to pass. He was a great offensive force no question, could create on the fly, very inventive - but he could be stopped.

If you denied Bird's drive you were inevitably forced back into the paint - you had to either have outside help or just plain get lucky because that's when he flashed out to the three line 2 or 3 steps ahead of you and floated the money 3 pointer over your desperate out of position hand.

Naw man Pip couldn't keep from getting scorched by Bird in the games they did play.
He'd have to wear flame retardant to try 1on1 against 1984 Bird

[Brunch@Five]

dude, you're beyond hope if you really think that Bird did not have 1on1 skills. I'm quoting myself here:


Bird is the best offensive player of all time. He topped out at 30ppg playing team -oriented. He's one of the best post players of all time. He's arguably the best shooter ever. He never at any point in his career had a problem getting his shot off and is one of the best ever at shooting contested jumpers. He could score with either hand, making him one of the most unpredictable scorers ever too.
On top of that he also has extremely great footwork. He wasn't fast, but always a very quick player, had great endurance, dexterity, body-control and hand-eye-coordination.

So yes, he could absolutely not score against Pippen consistently.

Pippen on the other hand, has the following offensive qualities that make him an extraordinary threat one-on-one:
he's athletic and fast.

[HighFlyer23]

people actually thinking bird wins is just more proof of that this board is full of idiots who don't actually play basketball or know too much about it

[Shade8780]

Larry Bird

/thread

[bwink23]

I'm not talking about their offense as a whole. Just the way they score the ball. Which is why miller couldn't beat a young kobe bryant. He just doesn't have the iso skills pertinant to being a great 1 on 1 player. Bird is the same way. And neithers man defense is up to par.

But I'm not in any way shape or form implying that miller was a good as bird. Bird was the better passer, rebounder, had better intangibles. And his help defense was better than millers was. But the way they scored was very similar.


:facepalm .....who the hell you think your fooling here dude??

[bwink23]

people actually thinking bird wins is just more proof of that this board is full of idiots who don't actually play basketball or know too much about it


You seriusly don't know jack about Larry Bird kid...:no:

[Pushxx]

people actually thinking bird wins is just more proof of that this board is full of idiots who don't actually play basketball or know too much about it

That doesn't even make sense. "Know too much about basketball?" What does that even mean? :wtf:

[Round Mound]

Larry Bird could take anyone off the dribble. Pippen would only score in some off the dribbles but his mid range shot is not as dangerous as Bird`s was. Bird would also shoot over Pippen and Post Him Up. Bird Posted Up PFs and with sucess because he had great leg strength.

[97 bulls]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_nfsq4pTpI

clips of Bird beating his man 1on1 (or even entire teams)

#10
#8
#6
#5
#3
#1

If Bird can fake an entire team, his fakes were pretty good

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kfYnqiVK34

And funny enough that same fake worked hundreds of times, all over the court, even though everybody watched film of Bird by the hour. Must have been something hypnotic about it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MUjJABeyus

Beating his man from :50 & then 1:50 showing 1on1 in the open court smokage.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=II2MqmI4Wjw


It's a laugh that people still say Bird was unathletic, slow, can't jump and so forth. His first step beat everyone in the league for 10 years, just fact. he constantly outran the court for at least 8 years, just fact... he could throw down flashy dunks in early days but why? That don't count for more than a layup which is less tiring thus he was more effective at the end of the game.

He took advantage of that moron unathletic perception for an entire career.

Naturally people will say Bird scored off curls, single dribbles and so forth. But that doesn't show a player's limitations, that is the premier mark of outstanding team play... the perfect set, the perfect pass, the perfect curl, single dribble and swish. No 80s Celtic would dream of dribbling for 15 seconds at the top of the key while the rest of his team went and sat down, then driving that's just not how those teams played basketball. Anybody remember Sidney Wicks on the Celtics? LOLOL that kind of iso game just didn't fit in with the Celtics.........

Over the years there have been some players that simply had unstoppable offense - NOBODY could stop those guys. Chamberlain, Jerry West, Jabbar, Pistol, Jordan, Kobe, a few others.... Bird is in that category.

Pip on the other hand was stoppable by NBA level defenders. If you denied his drive, he was looking to pass. He was a great offensive force no question, could create on the fly, very inventive - but he could be stopped.

If you denied Bird's drive you were inevitably forced back into the paint - you had to either have outside help or just plain get lucky because that's when he flashed out to the three line 2 or 3 steps ahead of you and floated the money 3 pointer over your desperate out of position hand.

Naw man Pip couldn't keep from getting scorched by Bird in the games they did play.
He'd have to wear flame retardant to try 1on1 against 1984 Bird
I gotta hand it to you baldi. The third clip you posted at the :50 second mark does show bird face up and take his man off the dribble. But every other clip you've posted still holds true to how bird scored. Off picks, off screens, off curls, or in the post. Oh and off tranistion baskets. None that's gives the indication that he could score in isolation on a consistant enough basis to beat a defender the caliber of scottie pippen 1 on 1.

[97 bulls]

Larry Bird could take anyone off the dribble. Pippen would only score in some off the dribbles but his mid range shot is not as dangerous as Bird`s was. Bird would also shoot over Pippen and Post Him Up. Bird Posted Up PFs and with sucess because he had great leg strength.
Bird could not take "anyone" off the dribble. I posted this vid already, and I knew I wasn't gonna get a response cuz the truth hurts I guess. But here's a vid of pippen in the post defending, 6'10 260lbs chris webber, 7'0 260lb patrick ewing, juwan howard, charles barkley, larry johnson to name a few.


http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=N9vFHYVXtRk

And please understand, these are great post players. Not some nobody like lefresco baldi posted as a testament to birds ability to take his man off the dribble.

And what is "leg length"? If your trying to imply that pippen would have problems with bird in the post due to bird 1 inch heith advantage, come on. Bird couldn't jump over a loaf of bread, pippen was an amazing jumper. And was great blocking jump shots.

[Micku]

Bird could not take "anyone" off the dribble. I posted this vid already, and I knew I wasn't gonna get a response cuz the truth hurts I guess. But here's a vid of pippen in the post defending, 6'10 260lbs chris webber, 7'0 260lb patrick ewing, juwan howard, charles barkley, larry johnson to name a few.


http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=N9vFHYVXtRk

And please understand, these are great post players. Not some nobody like lefresco baldi posted as a testament to birds ability to take his man off the dribble.

And what is "leg length"? If your trying to imply that pippen would have problems with bird in the post due to bird 1 inch heith advantage, come on. Bird couldn't jump over a loaf of bread, pippen was an amazing jumper. And was great blocking jump shots.

Bird could take a lot of ppl off the dribble. He's not Michael Jordan or LBJ good, but it's not like Bird was flawed in that area. He operated similar to Magic Johnson. Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfLjD5ft6o4#t=01m24s

That was against Dominique Wilkins, who was more athletic and quicker than Bird. And look how he take the Pistons players off the dribble here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZQEkElyqAY


Larry Bird is a great one on one player. He also did similar things against Michael Cooper, who is one of the best perimeter defenders of all time. You shouldn't Bird looks fool you.

The question would be whatever if Bird could stay in front of Pippen? The answer would be yes and no. Bird did defend Wilkins, Worthy, and Dr. J in a few instances who are all better offensively and quicker than Pippen is. Bird never sucked at the defense, but he wasn't as good as Cooper or Pippen was. Bird was a good post defender tho. With that said, Pippen would blow by him a few times. Could Pippen stop Bird? Maybe contain like Cooper, but not stop him. And if Bird is shot is on, nothing Pippen could do about that since Bird is one of the best offensively.

[97 bulls]

Bird could take a lot of ppl off the dribble. He's not Michael Jordan or LBJ good, but it's not like Bird was flawed in that area. He operated similar to Magic Johnson. Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfLjD5ft6o4#t=01m24s

That was against Dominique Wilkins, who was more athletic and quicker than Bird. And look how he take the Pistons players off the dribble here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZQEkElyqAY


Larry Bird is a great one on one player. He also did similar things against Michael Cooper, who is one of the best perimeter defenders of all time. You shouldn't Bird looks fool you.

The question would be whatever if Bird could stay in front of Pippen? The answer would be yes and no. Bird did defend Wilkins, Worthy, and Dr. J in a few instances who are all better offensively and quicker than Pippen is. Bird never sucked at the defense, but he wasn't as good as Cooper or Pippen was. Bird was a good post defender tho. With that said, Pippen would blow by him a few times. Could Pippen stop Bird? Maybe contain like Cooper, but not stop him. And if Bird is shot is on, nothing Pippen could do about that since Bird is one of the best offensively.
Dominique Wilkins was a shitty defender in his own right. There was 1 play in the first vid where bird drove by wilkins.

That saying, I've seen a lot of clips and vids in this thread. We've probably seen about a good 100 or so highlights of shots bird has taken. I can count on one hand how many times he scored in what's considered an iso situation.

[97 bulls]

Another thing, a few clips (about 5) of bird taking a guy off the dribble is not an indication of his iso abilities. I believe we all can admit that pippens jumpshot was at best decent. As was his 3pt range. I could produce a lot of clips showing pippen hitting an outside jumpshot. But that does not mean he's a strong jumpshooter.

[Micku]

Dominique Wilkins was a shitty defender in his own right. There was 1 play in the first vid where bird drove by wilkins.

That saying, I've seen a lot of clips and vids in this thread. We've probably seen about a good 100 or so highlights of shots bird has taken. I can count on one hand how many times he scored in what's considered an iso situation.

Did you check the second vid?

But the fact that I'm trying to show you that Bird could take ppl one on one, I assume that you haven't really watched a lot of Bird. Especially by your comments after each vid. The only way you would have to see that Bird could take ppl one on one is by watching more games. Especially anytime he is guarded by Michael Cooper, Rodman or Paul Pressey or something.

Besides, you could just watch some old Celtics vs Bulls highlights when Pippen and Bird played against each other. Bird would sometimes play more PFish, so Pippen didn't really guard him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAOx36A48wU

It's a good vid. Pippen showed his quickness and in the open court and first step in that vid. Bird schooled him in the post or whatever. In that game Bird had 38 points on 50% shooting and Pippen had 22 points on 53%.

And besides, it's one on one. It's not like anything big. Pippen could very well beat Bird and as well as Bird could beat Pippen.

[32Dayz]

Prime Bird is an underrated athlete.

[La Frescobaldi]

Dominique Wilkins was a shitty defender in his own right. There was 1 play in the first vid where bird drove by wilkins.

That saying, I've seen a lot of clips and vids in this thread. We've probably seen about a good 100 or so highlights of shots bird has taken. I can count on one hand how many times he scored in what's considered an iso situation.
**********
Again, you cant find clips of Bird doing isos because the Celtics weren't stupid enough to throw their entire team out of balance by running isolation plays.

That was always considered a shoddy gameplan - either the guy was a ballhog, or his teammates were so pathetic they just crowded off.

And why would forwards dribble at the top of the key anyhow? Thats a recent downgrade of the league. Seeing Bynum run iso plays from the top of the key... Only an execrable coach would do that

[97 bulls]

Prime Bird is an underrated athlete.

Actually, I must say that watching these clips as a person critiqing as opposed to just a fan, I must admit birds athleticism is underrated.

[97 bulls]

**********
Again, you cant find clips of Bird doing isos because the Celtics weren't stupid enough to throw their entire team out of balance by running isolation plays.

That was always considered a shoddy gameplan - either the guy was a ballhog, or his teammates were so pathetic they just crowded off.

And why would forwards dribble at the top of the key anyhow? Thats a recent downgrade of the league. Seeing Bynum run iso plays from the top of the key... Only an execrable coach would do that
You're right. Iso ball isn't a better form of basketball, however in a game of 1 on 1 that all you have is isolations. There is no help defense, there is no screener, there is noone to pass it to. Its one players one on one skills vs anothers. It a players ability to play man defense vs anothers. You showed clips of team ball.

[AlphaWolf24]

Prime Scottie Pippen was one of the greatest defenders the NBA has ever seen....to go along with being a 25PPG offensive player...

while Bird was one of the greatest players ever....his passing would be useless...and his ability to rub off of screens would be non existent...

he would have to rely on his post game vs Pippen...

while Pippen's outside shooting was not as good....he was a better player off the dribble and a much faster player with the ball.

many people here are not really understanding 1 vs 1 basketball....Pippen wins this and many posters here would be shocked how much different 1 vs 1 is then a 5 on 5....


in fact in many 1 vs 1 tournaments ...the player who wins is usually not the best player in a team environment...



Pippen>Bird in this scenario.....alot of people here would be showed as fools.

[Round Mound]

Bird could not take "anyone" off the dribble. I posted this vid already, and I knew I wasn't gonna get a response cuz the truth hurts I guess. But here's a vid of pippen in the post defending, 6'10 260lbs chris webber, 7'0 260lb patrick ewing, juwan howard, charles barkley, larry johnson to name a few.


http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=N9vFHYVXtRk

And please understand, these are great post players. Not some nobody like lefresco baldi posted as a testament to birds ability to take his man off the dribble.

And what is "leg length"? If your trying to imply that pippen would have problems with bird in the post due to bird 1 inch heith advantage, come on. Bird couldn't jump over a loaf of bread, pippen was an amazing jumper. And was great blocking jump shots.

Pippen himself said "Larry Bird is the Hardest Player to Defend" :violin:

Pippen never stopped Barkley when he was guarding him. Thats another Myth like that of Kevin McHale. Go Look at the Head to Heads

Bird had legs that where very strong he could post up PFs and schooled many like Horace Grant. Pippen would waste energly driving wise while Bird woul just force him to take far a way shots and himself he would post up and fadeway like crazy.

Pippen himsefl said Bird was the Best SF he Ever Guarded

[97 bulls]

Pippen himself said "Larry Bird is the Hardest Player to Defend" :violin:

Pippen never stopped Barkley when he was guarding him. Thats another Myth like that of Kevin McHale. Go Look at the Head to Heads

Bird had legs that where very strong he could post up PFs and schooled many like Horace Grant. Pippen would waste energly driving wise while Bird woul just force him to take far a way shots and himself he would post up and fadeway like crazy.

Pippen himsefl said Bird was the Best SF he Ever Guarded
Pippen never said bird was the toughest player he ever defended. Hell he defended jordan in practice every day.

I showed you clips of him guarding barkley. Did you watch the video? Ewing tried to back him down at 7 feet and tried to fade away, pippen still blocked his shot barkley tried to move him off the post cuz pippen was fronting him, and barkley couldn't. Granted noramally grant defended barkley, but those clips were more used to show that bird posting him up isn't a given.

And again, the contrast in this debate is that I posted clips of great low post big men trying to post up pippen (prime 28-30 yr old not a 22 year old kid pippen) without success. You guys have shown clips where either bird didn't do anything remotely close to what would be considered 1 on 1, IE the curls, picks, screens etc, or he beat really bad defenders off the dribble. Guys like brad sellers, dominique wilkins, and some white guy that I don't remember.

[97 bulls]

Another thing, I've tried to respond to everyone of these clips and videos. I haven't received one rebutal on the legitimacy of my POV based on the vids I posted. I'm gonna assume that you guys agree that pippen would have given bird all he could handle if bird tried to post him up.

[305Baller]

Early Bird would beat prime Pippen.

[Bigsmoke]

Once Bird gets the ball its over

[inclinerator]

right now? scottie pippen
prime, bird

[bwink23]

Prime Scottie Pippen was one of the greatest defenders the NBA has ever seen....to go along with being a 25PPG offensive player...

while Bird was one of the greatest players ever....his passing would be useless...and his ability to rub off of screens would be non existent...

he would have to rely on his post game vs Pippen...

while Pippen's outside shooting was not as good....he was a better player off the dribble and a much faster player with the ball.

many people here are not really understanding 1 vs 1 basketball....Pippen wins this and many posters here would be shocked how much different 1 vs 1 is then a 5 on 5....


in fact in many 1 vs 1 tournaments ...the player who wins is usually not the best player in a team environment...



Pippen>Bird in this scenario.....alot of people here would be showed as fools.


LOL at this dork talking like no one here has played a day of basketball in their lives. :hammerhead:

[AlphaWolf24]

LOL at this dork talking like no one here has played a day of basketball in their lives. :hammerhead:


Iv'e seen many videos of posters here playing basketball...


pretty pathetic.....sad really.


most look like they have hands like feet.

[bwink23]

Iv'e seen many videos of posters here playing basketball...


pretty pathetic.....sad really.


most look like they have hands like feet.


NAME THE POSTERS....

[AlphaWolf24]

NAME THE POSTERS....


ok...let me go back in the past 3 - 4 years I have been here and find them all...


I cannot remember all there names...but many threads of "do I have a good shot?"..."look at my handle"..."what's wronmg with my shot?"....."do I jump the right way"....


then there's a person (can't remember his name) who shows videos of him slamming on a 6' huffy hoop:roll:

__________________________________

BTW I was bieng sarcastic about going back 3 - 4 years..

[Round Mound]

Pippen never said bird was the toughest player he ever defended. Hell he defended jordan in practice every day.

Yes he did i heard that in an interview a long time ago.

I showed you clips of him guarding barkley. Did you watch the video? Ewing tried to back him down at 7 feet and tried to fade away, pippen still blocked his shot barkley tried to move him off the post cuz pippen was fronting him, and barkley couldn't. Granted noramally grant defended barkley, but those clips were more used to show that bird posting him up isn't a given.

:no:

He guarded Barkley well in some plays but overall he was schooled by Barkley.

Head to Head: Barkley vs Pippen

Season

Barkley: 24.1 PPG
(58.9% FG)
Only 14.7 FGAs PG
11.3 RPG
3.9 APG
1.0 SPG
0.7 BPG
*And Less Personal Fouls

Play-Offs

Barkley: 26.5 PPG
(53.7% FG)
18.3 FGAs PG
11.7 RPG
5.5 APG
1.3 SPG
*And Same Amount of Personal Fouls




http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=barklch01&p2=pippesc01


Won`t even go into the 2-Point FG% because it was probably over 60% and over 23 PPG

And again, the contrast in this debate is that I posted clips of great low post big men trying to post up pippen (prime 28-30 yr old not a 22 year old kid pippen) without success. You guys have shown clips where either bird didn't do anything remotely close to what would be considered 1 on 1, IE the curls, picks, screens etc, or he beat really bad defenders off the dribble. Guys like brad sellers, dominique wilkins, and some white guy that I don't remember

Bird from 79-86 Would have Destroyed Pippen (remember after 1989 Bird was constantly injured). Bird still outplayed Pippen in the Head to Heads and Pippen was in Foul Trouble for most of these Games.

I am not saying Pippen wasn`t a Great Defender. I am a fan of Pippen and I think he was the Most Verstaile Defender after Rodman (he could guard 1-4 but 4 pretty well, not stars) but you lie when you say he did well against Bird or Barkley. The opposite happened.

[97 bulls]

LOL at this dork talking like no one here has played a day of basketball in their lives. :hammerhead:
He's right. Its obvious a lot of you guys can't distinguish the difference bewteen team ball and 1 on 1/street ball. Street ball consist of a lot of transition and isos. Organized team ball is what we saw the celtics do with bird in the clips you've shown.

And there's a huge difference between the two.

[bwink23]

He's right. Its obvious a lot of you guys can't distinguish the difference bewteen team ball and 1 on 1/street ball. Street ball consist of a lot of transition and isos. Organized team ball is what we saw the celtics do with bird in the clips you've shown.

And there's a huge difference between the two.


NO....it's obvious your a second 3-peat Bulls homer who don't have the slightest clue what your talking about.

I showed plenty of clips of Bird owning Pippen in isolation...you just choose to ignore it....like a fool. :hammerhead:

[97 bulls]

Pippen never said bird was the toughest player he ever defended. Hell he defended jordan in practice every day.

Yes he did i heard that in an interview a long time ago.

I showed you clips of him guarding barkley. Did you watch the video? Ewing tried to back him down at 7 feet and tried to fade away, pippen still blocked his shot barkley tried to move him off the post cuz pippen was fronting him, and barkley couldn't. Granted noramally grant defended barkley, but those clips were more used to show that bird posting him up isn't a given.

:no:

He guarded Barkley well in some plays but overall he was schooled by Barkley.

Head to Head: Barkley vs Pippen

Season

Barkley: 24.1 PPG
(58.9% FG)
Only 14.7 FGAs PG
11.3 RPG
3.9 APG
1.0 SPG
0.7 BPG
*And Less Personal Fouls

Play-Offs

Barkley: 26.5 PPG
(53.7% FG)
18.3 FGAs PG
11.7 RPG
5.5 APG
1.3 SPG
*And Same Amount of Personal Fouls




http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=barklch01&p2=pippesc01


Won`t even go into the 2-Point FG% because it was probably over 60% and over 23 PPG

And again, the contrast in this debate is that I posted clips of great low post big men trying to post up pippen (prime 28-30 yr old not a 22 year old kid pippen) without success. You guys have shown clips where either bird didn't do anything remotely close to what would be considered 1 on 1, IE the curls, picks, screens etc, or he beat really bad defenders off the dribble. Guys like brad sellers, dominique wilkins, and some white guy that I don't remember

Bird from 79-86 Would have Destroyed Pippen (remember after 1989 Bird was constantly injured). Bird still outplayed Pippen in the Head to Heads and Pippen was in Foul Trouble for most of these Games.

I am not saying Pippen wasn`t a Great Defender. I am a fan of Pippen and I think he was the Most Verstaile Defender after Rodman (he could guard 1-4 but 4 pretty well, not stars) but you lie when you say he did well against Bird or Barkley. The opposite happened.
I can't believe you can be this dumb when it comes to comparisons. First, were talking about 1 on 1 why are you trying to use statistics that came in a team game?

What's more, is that in those team games, are you also accounting for their minutes? And the fact the first 5 or 6 games between the bulls and celtics, the bulls starting SF was brad sellers. Not scottie pippen. When you look up those head to head comparisons, those aren't what bird did when pippen was on him, that's what bird did vs the bulls, while pippen was on the team. I could look up pippen vs shaq on the head to head finder. Its gonna show how the two faired vs the opposing team while they both were on their respective teams. Pippen never guarded shaq, and shaq never guarded pippen. Most of those satistics you posted are what barkley did to horace grant.


I posted that video in response to eliteballer saying pippen wasnt a strong post defender. And you feeling bird would just post pippen up with his "leg length" as you put it. Pippen was a great post defender and that video bares it out. He defended much bigger and better post players than bird.

I don't see why this is so hard to understand, phil jackson, john bach, and tex winter are on record as saying that in the bulls practices jordan and pippen defended each other and they were knock down drag out games. Or to use jacksons words "extremely competitive". If pippen can defend and score on the greatest one on one player ever, why can't he do it vs larry bird?

[97 bulls]

NO....it's obvious your a second 3-peat Bulls homer who don't have the slightest clue what your talking about.

I showed plenty of clips of Bird owning Pippen in isolation...you just choose to ignore it....like a fool. :hammerhead:
You showed me a clip, one play, one possession, that all, of bird posting up scottie pippen as a rookie. And a plethera of shots bird made on brad sellers. Who was a bust. That brad sellers pick was so bad that it started the feud between jordan and krause lol.

And what does the second threepeast bull have to do with this?

[get these NETS]

97bulls

you are looking at logic...others are looking at skin color...despite what you write....many are too insecure to concede even obvious points.

it goes beyond homerism....it's based on fact that Bird was a legitimately great white player, so some feel like they have to hold his banner up and tell lies in hypothetical situations.

same element of ish who wrote repeatedly about Dirk's "heroic" playoff run last year..even though that term in sports is usually used for guys that are hurt.

Emmit Smith suffered a separated collarbone in a playoff game against the Giants.....came back in toughed it out....and his team won...THAT was heroic..

Isiah Thomas almost single handedly won the pistons first ring against lakers on a banged up ankle..that was heroic

Zo came back from major kidney surgery to play in the league again.....THAT was heroic


Dirk had a SPECTACULAR tear through the playoffs and came up huge when his team needed him to....but "heroic"???????

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Larry Bird gamewinner in Pippen and Jordan's face: http://y2u.be/WoGmMx8Ejrw

Pure ISO, no screens.. just a nice shot :applause: