Where Does Dwight "Superman" Howard Rank for the Best Centers to Ever Play?

[Jotaro Durant]

where he at? top 10? :confusedshrug:

[andgar923]

Not top 10.

20 perhaps?:confusedshrug:

[kenny817]

where he at? top 10? :confusedshrug:

Dude is still a kid tho

[Xsatyr]

Somewhere between Hasheem and Hakeem.

[Fudge]

:oldlol:

Not even close bud. Do you know how many dominant centers there were in the history of the nba? Or at least much more dominant than Dwight. Wilt, Russell, Kareem, DRob, Zo, Ewing, Shaq, Hakeem, Walton, Reed,(in no order of course) and much more. Possibly top 20, and that's saying a lot.

[Rnbizzle]

Somewhere in the 10-15 range probable.

[andgar923]

:oldlol:

Not even close bud. Do you know how many dominant centers there were in the history of the nba? Or at least much more dominant than Dwight. Wilt, Russell, Kareem, DRob, Zo, Ewing, Shaq, Hakeem, Walton, Reed,(in no order of course) and much more. Possibly top 20, and that's saying a lot.

Howard IS dominant tho.

But he isn't as good as other greats.

[HighFlyer23]

15-25 range

if he had some post moves then he easily goes up this list

[Fudge]

Howard IS dominant tho.

But he isn't as good as other greats.
Didnt say he wasnt :sleeping And that's pretty much what I just said.

[PTB Fan]

I'd say he's around 11-15 range.

[SonOfMattGeiger]

see, this is where ISH has double standards. clearly, if he played in the 60's with Russell, D12 would be the superior player. However, Russell's dominance relative to his peers is miles ahead of Dwight. So that is very understandable, and I agree that Russell should be ranked in top 3 G.O.A.T. conversation.

However, by this logic, Dwight has to be ahead of players like Ewing, and closing in on players like D-Rob. Not saying that Dwight has more talent than these guys had, because clearly they were the superior players. However, relative to his peers, Dwight has ALREADY had MUCH more dominance than Ewing ever did. Dwight is closing in on his 5th All-NBA First Team, when Ewing only had ONE.

Again, I am not saying that Dwight is a better player than Ewing. But according to the argument about "dominance within your own era", then Dwight is light years ahead of Ewing on the all-time list. This is coming from a Knicks fan.

Talent Wise: Ewing >>> Dwight
Dominance Wise: Dwight >>> Ewing

Think about it. Tracy McGrady was more talented than 90% of the people ranked ahead of him on G.O.A.T. lists, but he is only in the 75-80 range for a reason. His dominance wasn't for a long enough period of time and he didn't reach his full potential.

[Brunch@Five]

He won't catch Shaq, Wilt, Russel, Moses, Kareem. DRob and Ewing are possible. Walton is hard to rank, as are Unseld and Reed due to their era. Zo definitely isn't better than him.

He'll easily crack the top 10 IMO

[Teanett]

if he keeps up like this, he's top 10.
he can surely be on par with ewing and admiral. he's already surpassed zo imo.

[Suckafree]

If his career ended today. 11-13 range

[WillyJakk]

^ :confusedshrug:

"Dominance w/ in your own era" is a criteria YOU established, not the op.

And once again, anyone who'd take a Bill Russell or one of those other old school C's (like Wes Unseld etc) over Dwight is not only cookin' crack, you're smokin' it, too.

No "today's training techniques are different" rebuttal's either.

You know a stud athlete/ player when you see them, regardless of era.

Bill Russ was great but athletically equivalent to a Marcus Camby which is good, not groundbreaking though.

As for op, hard to say since Dwight is just entering his prime at 26 yrs old and having 3 DPOY Awards (in a row) already.

[Fudge]

Eventually, when its all said and done and his career is over, there's no doubt he'll pass the second tier bigs like (Zo, DRob, Ewing, Walton, etc). As of right now though, you cant really say.

[SonOfMattGeiger]

^ :confusedshrug:

"Dominance w/ in your own era" is a criteria YOU established, not the op.

And once again, anyone who'd take a Bill Russell or one of those other old school C's (like Wes Unseld etc) over Dwight is not only cookin' crack, you're smokin' it, too.

No "today's training techniques are different" rebuttal's either.

You know a stud athlete/ player when you see them, regardless of era.

Bill Russ was great but athletically equivalent to a Marcus Camby which is good, not groundbreaking though.

As for op, hard to say since Dwight is just entering his prime at 26 yrs old and having 3 DPOY Awards (in a row) already.


what are you talking about man, I wasn't calling out OP. I'm answering his question with my opinion. Most people are aware that Shaq, for example, was 10x the talent that Russell was. However, Russell is a good 4 or 5 spots ahead of him on the G.O.A.T. list, due to his success relative to his peers.

[Teanett]

Bill Russ was great but athletically equivalent to a Marcus Camby which is good, not groundbreaking though.


no dude, in '56 russell was ranked #7 in high jump in the world.
he ran 400 m under 50 sec, that is groundbreaking for a 6'8'' dude.

[brisbaneman]

Top 100

[PTB Fan]

^ :confusedshrug:
Bill Russ was great but athletically equivalent to a Marcus Camby which is good, not groundbreaking though.


Not true. He was a 6'9-6'11 (somewhere in there) highly physically gifted big man, who was really athletic, excellent leaping ability, could run the floor pretty well, had huge length and world class athlete.

IMO, he was one of the most physically gifted and athletic players ever.

[Derka]

We'll see how Dwight's career stacks up. Right now, he might be a Top 20.

[Teanett]

btw, shaq is "superman".

[Jotaro Durant]

btw, shaq is "superman".

:no:

http://en.ce.cn/sports/basketball/200802/18/W020080218397568132805.jpghttp://heelsonhardwood.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/p1_shaq.jpg

[JMT]

Could end up Top 20. Should, given his physical gifts.

Personally, I don't see him cracking the Top 10.

[HylianNightmare]

9-12 range

[Teanett]

:no:

http://en.ce.cn/sports/basketball/200802/18/W020080218397568132805.jpghttp://heelsonhardwood.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/p1_shaq.jpg
born after 1994 huh? fukken kids...:facepalm
http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/shaq-superman-magic.png
http://accidentalmommies.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Shaquille-ONeal-tattoo.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3644/3446462947_14a74fb5dd.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_h9jM93aGqfs/R6tT_iLJH9I/AAAAAAAAAs8/PIB_NaSMi5o/s320/p1.trade.jpg

[Jotaro Durant]

born after 1994 huh? fukken kids...:facepalm
http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/shaq-superman-magic.png
http://accidentalmommies.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Shaquille-ONeal-tattoo.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3644/3446462947_14a74fb5dd.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_h9jM93aGqfs/R6tT_iLJH9I/AAAAAAAAAs8/PIB_NaSMi5o/s320/p1.trade.jpg

go back 7 years:facepalm

real superman dont need to call up ownsers of superman to say theyre the real superman of nba:lol

[Teanett]

go back 7 years:facepalm

real superman dont need to call up ownsers of superman to say theyre the real superman of nba:lol

dont speak english, huh? fukken foreigners...:facepalm

[ChrisPosh]

Somewhere between Hasheem and Hakeem.

Hashkeem?

[Jotaro Durant]

dont speak english, huh? fukken foreigners...:facepalm

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/7/24/819cd22d-b2d3-4cdc-bf49-9325ea9bae40.jpg

[dyna]

Top 15

[WillyJakk]

Not true. He was a 6'9-6'11 (somewhere in there) highly physically gifted big man, who was really athletic, excellent leaping ability, could run the floor pretty well, had huge length and world class athlete.

IMO, he was one of the most physically gifted and athletic players ever.

Sounds like a description of a young Marcus Camby to me.

Everytime the debate comes up w/ older players I hardly see any posts where there isn't a disregard for the racial aspect during time of said player.

Russ was definitely a great athlete as were many other men of color during his time period, Russ was one the few who actually got a chance to show it cause that was just the way of the World.

Now what DOES separate players while making them comparable regardless of any era is their mind, did they or didn't they have an inherent understanding of the game and Bill Russell had a true basketball mind but again it leads back to the point of Dwight Howard just now entering his prime, will he become an even smarter player?

Who knows, only time will tell.

[Teanett]

Sounds like a description of a young Marcus Camby to me.



dude, that major disrespect.
young marcus camby couldnt stay on the court for more than 3 games without getting hurt. could young marcus camby ever clear his height in high jump?

[Pushxx]

11-16 range.

[chocolatethunder]

He won't catch Shaq, Wilt, Russel, Moses, Kareem. DRob and Ewing are possible. Walton is hard to rank, as are Unseld and Reed due to their era. Zo definitely isn't better than him.

He'll easily crack the top 10 IMO
What you're saying is just silly. Catch Robinson? You must not have seen him play. He is so underrated on this board because of Hakeem and because he didn't win until late in his career. Howard isn't half the player Robinson was. The sh*t that comes out of some people's mouths around here is insane.

[HurricaneKid]

TIER 1
Wilt
Kareem
Russell

Tier 2
Shaq
Dream

Tier 3
Moses
DRob
Mikan

Tier 4
Ewing
Walton

I think I already have him above Ewing and Walton so that would put him at 9. So yeah, top 10.

[embersyc]

Until he starts winning championships he is not in the discussion of most dominant centers, period.

[La Frescobaldi]

TIER 1 Wilt Kareem Russell

Tier 2 Shaq Dream

Tier 3 Moses DRob Mikan

Tier 4 Ewing Walton

I think I already have him above Ewing and Walton so that would put him at 9. So yeah, top 10.
**************************
That's not bad actually. IMO you have left out some guys that are above Howard, namely
Nate Thurmond
Bob Lanier
Willis Reed

I cant agree that Howard is better than Ewing.

I'm not sure between Howard and Cowens.

[rodman91]

Not in top 10.

[Kblaze8855]

see, this is where ISH has double standards. clearly, if he played in the 60's with Russell, D12 would be the superior player.

I dont think he would be considered better really. Especially now when Wilt isnt even generally ranked over russell(if so not by much). What is he gonna do that Wilt wasnt? Wilt can drop 100, grab 55 rebounds, hand out 20 assists, block 25 shots, shoot 70%, and have playoff quadruple doubles. He could do anything he wanted.

Russell still won. What is Dwight gonna do? Put up the same 35-40ppg as wilt.....pull down rebounds like crazy. And probably lose anyway. Hes not gonna drop 80 a game. Hes not gonna just score at will to the point other teams cant win.

He could easily put up Walt bellamy numbers(30/20) and have people saying he couldnt doninate today. What would you even see out of a 1960 Dwight? He cant do all the flashy dunks. None of that dunk contest shit. Nobody throws lobs to the rafters. He would be doing dunks on the break that nobody today would see. Blocking shots that wouldnt be counted. Dominating someone who looks like they arent good competition even if they are.

60s Dwight would have great numbers but probably 90% of ISH would be saying he couldnt be elite today.

[I.R.Beast]

Howard IS dominant tho.

But he isn't as good as other greats.
Howard is not Dominant....given the lack of overall talent at the Center position he should have better production and more consisent production at center.

He's definately noot top 10.

[c3z4r]

he definitely is dominant, at least from a defensive standpoint. People forget that howard can't camp in the key because of the defensive 3seconds rule, but even with this rule he still averages a high number of blocks and rebounds, comparable with other all time great centers.

Let's not underrate the effect this rule had on centers. For example mutombo's number regarding blocks went down after the rule was implemented and even shaq's went down.

[BlueandGold]

He's only halfway through his career so it's tough to say. What he did in 09 was nothing to sneeze at, getting the Magic through a 66win cleveland team and then putting up ridiculous rebounding/blocking totals in the finals (believe he set/tied the finals single game blocking record).

I'd say he'll be firmly in the top10 when it's said and done. Top-tier all-time great centers like Shaq/Hakeem/Russell/Wilt are definitely ahead of him but i'd have to say he's better than other centers such as Artis Gilmore/Walton (because of injuries)/Parish/etc. If you compare Dwights numbers to the "other" great centers of different time periods they definitely compare if not exceed those numbers.


He could easily put up Walt bellamy numbers(30/20) and have people saying he couldnt doninate today. What would you even see out of a 1960 Dwight? He cant do all the flashy dunks. None of that dunk contest shit. Nobody throws lobs to the rafters. He would be doing dunks on the break that nobody today would see. Blocking shots that wouldnt be counted. Dominating someone who looks like they arent good competition even if they are.

60s Dwight would have great numbers but probably 90% of ISH would be saying he couldnt be elite today.

This type of comparison (cross-generational) is an absurd one to make. Going backwards or forwards in time. Saying a great player like Russell would not dominate in today's game is flawed logic because you don't know how he would adapt to better equipment, training, pace of game, etc. Inversely the point that you are making (dwight playing in the 1960s) would have the same problems because you also cant predict how Dwight would have responded to the differences in the NBA back then as well.

[flipogb]

15-20

[NugzHeat3]

From the guys I've seen, he's certainly not better than O'Neal, Olajuwon, Robinson or Ewing.

I'm just looking at how good they were at their best so longevity is sort of irrelevant here.

He's roughly on the same level as Yao and Zo and above Daugherty who was better offensively but not the defensive anchor Dwight was. Their athleticism seperates the two since it allows Dwight to do more things on the court.

I want to say Yao was better because he always dominated him head to head and he would probably do that to 2011 Dwight too because it's a match up issue. Dwight doesn't have the perimeter/face up game to really exploit Yao's defensive weakness which is quickness on the perimeter/pick and roll defense. Yao was strong as hell in the lower body so Dwight couldn't establish deep position or get around him easily.

But health is probably too big of an issue for Yao because he couldn't really go heavy minutes and even then, he was still pretty injury prone. I also thought Yao could've been more aggressive though Houston always had trouble getting him the ball when fronted and I'd say the rule changes had something to do with as well since the guy helping from the weakside would be roaming around which would be illegal in the 90s.

Zo and Dwight are roughly equal at their peak and you can side with either. Dwight is better than Zo pre-1999 though. Zo was too flawed of a player before. I'd side with 2000 Zo because his offensive game had greatly improved (jump hooks with either hand, put the ball on the floor better, better passer out of double teams, better FT shooter) from say 1997 where he got rattled easily (Rodman, LJ) and wasn't as polished.

Dwight is probably better on pick and roll defense and definitely better on the glass though Zo went up for so many blocks that he was often out of position. I'm only giving Zo the edge because he was a bit meaner and tougher. I like that trait as an intangible. He had the intimidation factor going for him which kind of shows in how many times he challenged guys. Dwight doesn't really have the same aggression he did.

[Micku]

He's around the same level as Alonzo Mourning. So..maybe top 11-15?

He'll probably get into the top 10 if he doesn't get injured and he keeps his play up.

[greymatter]

^ :confusedshrug:

"Dominance w/ in your own era" is a criteria YOU established, not the op.

And once again, anyone who'd take a Bill Russell or one of those other old school C's (like Wes Unseld etc) over Dwight is not only cookin' crack, you're smokin' it, too.

No "today's training techniques are different" rebuttal's either.

You know a stud athlete/ player when you see them, regardless of era.

Bill Russ was great but athletically equivalent to a Marcus Camby which is good, not groundbreaking though.

As for op, hard to say since Dwight is just entering his prime at 26 yrs old and having 3 DPOY Awards (in a row) already.

Nonsense.

Russell was 6'10", had a 7'4" wingspan, and was an olympic classs high jumper. His vertical was approximately 48". The only big guy who had him beat in athleticism was Wilt. He makes Camby look like Jamal McGloire. He also had by far the greatest defensive IQ out of any big man to play the game. Unlike D12, he was aware enough to convert most of his blocks into offensive possessions for his team rather than sending the ball 5 rows into the stands.

Bill had the perpetual competitor's scowl that you'd later see in the likes of Alonzo Mourning. Both Russell and Wilt (yeah, one of those other old school Cs) would absolutely be superior bigs to Dwight in today's game.

[greymatter]

Around Mourning sounds about right. I'd probably have him one or two pegs higher since he's a lot more durable and will no doubt have far greater longevity.

[Odinn]

1. Kareem - 2. Russell - 3. Shaq - 3. Wilt - 5. Hakeem - 6. Moses - 7. Admiral - 8. Mikan - 9. Walton - 10. Ewing - 11. Reed... That's my goat Cs list. Right now, DH12 somewhere between 11 and 15. At best he can end up at #8. I don't think he can surpass Moses or DRob.

[Sarcastic]

You guys are shortchanging him a lot. He already has 3 DPOY. If he wins multiple rings he can be top 5.

I think most people forget how young he still is. Most of the guys you list above him didn't get their achievements until later in their careers.



note: I am not saying he will finish top 5; I am saying he can.

[Joshumitsu]

You can't rank him yet. He needs 4-5 more years to demonstrate his "prime years".

He'll never be the scorer that Hakeem, Kareem, Shaq, Robinson, Wilt, Ewing, etc were. But his defense and rebounding (moreso, rebounding) is up there with the best.

Even then, he averaged 23ppg last year and could improve to 25ppg in any given year in the next 3-5 years. You have to consider this in an era designed to stop the traditional center from succeeding, too.

[Carbine]

I think he has a very likely chance to be a top 20-25 player ever, let alone just out of centers....even without a ring.

Give him a ring? He's borderline top 15.

I think we underrate him because he's happening right now. This sh!t about if he played in a different era, he wouldn't be as good...is crap. He would do his work vs. anyone in the history of the game. He'd do him no matter what. Give you 20/15 and all-time great defensive presence like it was nothing. Give you 30/15 on a good night, 35/20 on a great night.

He's going to get better too.

[iamgine]

The era debate is valid, but this is a really weak era for big men. Should that be factored in the equation when considering Dwight's dominance?

[Solid Snake]

Dwight Howard doesn't even have a go to move in the post.

[Carbine]

No, because we know how well he has played vs Duncan who was in or near his prime, and Howard was still a raw player.... and we know how well he played vs. Shaq.

As a 19 year old he had 20/10 games vs Duncan, and pretty much 15/10 games throughout that same year vs. Duncan @ an MVP caliber Shaq.

20 year old he put up 30/8/4/4 vs. Duncan, and a bunch of 15ish/12ish board games vs Shaq and Duncan.

21 year old he puts up like 20/20 games, 34/16 games vs Duncan

Dwight is much better now than he was back then, so the evidence is there vs. two of the top 10 big men of all time.

Bottom line - Dwight would do Dwight no matter what.

[SourPatchKids]

Somewhere between Hasheem and Hakeem.
heh

[Suckafree]

Yeah, I think he is being shortchanged a bit too.

Forgot about the whole "Era" talk Because I think Dwight is gunna be a 20/15/3(Blocks) guy no matter what year he is playing in.

Dwight turns a poor defensive team into and ELITE defensive team instantly just from his presence in the paint. He is so active and athletic down there it throws teams off their game-plan completely. And also, I don't see anybody taking the DPOY crown off him for the next 2-3 years so it wouldn't be farfetched for him to end up with 6-7 DPOY titles

Yes he isn't one of the most polished offensive bigs to play the game but he ain't no Joel Anthony Either. He gets the Job Done and can basically go for 30 on any given night. Elite defense and the ability to score 30.... What more could you ask from your big.
Combine that with his Durability and you've got a top ten Center of all time. (Not right now, Give it 4 or 5 years)

[AngelEyes]

Howard needs to become a dominant offensive player before he ever truly enters the discussion of greatest centers of all time. He's playing in a piss poor era for centers and still isn't able to dominate offensively.

[Micku]

You guys are shortchanging him a lot. He already has 3 DPOY. If he wins multiple rings he can be top 5.

I think most people forget how young he still is. Most of the guys you list above him didn't get their achievements until later in their careers.



note: I am not saying he will finish top 5; I am saying he can.

I think it's more of a era thing. He doesn't really have competition in comparison to 90s and below. He has more DPOY awards than Hakeem and David Robinson, but he's probably not better than Hakeem or David Robinson on the defensive end.

[AngelEyes]

I think it's more of a era thing. He doesn't really have competition in comparison to 90s and below. He has more DPOY awards than Hakeem and David Robinson, but he's probably not better than Hakeem or David Robinson on the defensive end.

He absolutely isn't as good as those guys. His defensive instincts aren't comparable and Robinson in particular was taller, had better length and was a superior shot blocker as well as a better face up defender. While Dwight is a great defensive player his 3 DPOY awards are a product of his era and the lack of dominant defensive big men. The award is mainly a big man award and he has no competition. He would have ZERO in the 90's. Robinson, Olajuwon, Duncan, Garnett were all superior defenders. Mourning as well.

[LockoutOver11]

1. Kareem - 2. Russell - 3. Shaq - 3. Wilt - 5. Hakeem - 6. Moses - 7. Admiral - 8. Mikan - 9. Walton - 10. Ewing - 11. Reed... That's my goat Cs list. Right now, DH12 somewhere between 11 and 15. At best he can end up at #8. I don't think he can surpass Moses or DRob.


I def agree with your 1-7,, the rest can go any which way.

I see some posts Alonzo < Howard... yeah maybe which is sad cause Alonzo is my favorite center of all time. But if Howard played with Alonzo's intensity,, Howard could climb into that top 8. I'd prolly put Howard right now below those top 11 plus Parish, Ben Wallace, Alonzo, Dikembe... and right ahead of Ming. so 16?

[AngelEyes]

I def agree with your 1-7,, the rest can go any which way.

I see some posts Alonzo < Howard... yeah maybe which is sad cause Alonzo is my favorite center of all time. But if Howard played with Alonzo's intensity,, Howard could climb into that top 8. I'd prolly put Howard right now below those top 11 plus Parish, Ben Wallace, Alonzo, Dikembe... and right ahead of Ming. so 16?

If Howard had Zo's jumpshot he'd climb up the list.

[OmniStrife]

I think he'll make top 10-7 at the end of his career.

[Pushxx]

We have to remember Dwight just turned 26. He has many more years to forge his legacy. He markedly improved his offense after working with Hakeem 1.5 years ago.

He's also in a system that revolves around having several three-point shooting role players. We need to see what kind of player he is when and if he changes teams.

He can take his game to another level if he joins the right coach/system.

[nbacardDOTnet]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/VS/nba-all-time-elite-legend-center-players.jpg


where he at? top 10?

top 30







:no:

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/z%20orlando%20magic%20with%20dwight%20howard/20120123atCeltics/20120123atCeltics-trashorlandomagic-with-dwighthoward.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/z%20orlando%20magic%20with%20dwight%20howard/20120126vsCeltics/20120126atorlandomagic-KevinGarnett-DocRivers-1.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/Shaquille%20Oneal/VS/Dwight%20Howard/2009Nov-SHAQ-destroyed-weak-dwighthoward-aka-fake-superman-GTFO-dh12-d12.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/Shaquille%20Oneal/VS/Dwight%20Howard/100221shaqfan-1.jpg

dwight coward = fake superman

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Dwight%20Howard/--2.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Dwight%20Howard/2001SHAQ.jpg



Dwight Howard doesn't even have a go to move in the post.

before

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Alonzo%20Mourning/z%20Block%20Party/dwight%20howard/alonzomourningdestroydwighthoward20061124.gif

after

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Alonzo%20Mourning/z%20Block%20Party/dwight%20howard/20110424-josh-smith-blocks-dwight-howard.gif

[tomtucker]

^all these screen caps are gold :applause:.....A picture is worth a thousand words





.

[nbacardDOTnet]

^all these screen caps are gold applause.....A picture is worth a thousand words.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Houston%20Rockets/Yao%20Ming/VS%20dwight%20howard/reasonwhydwighthowardcantbeoneof-2.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/Jermaine%20Oneal/-1.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Houston%20Rockets/Yao%20Ming/VS%20dwight%20howard/-.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Indiana%20Pacers/Roy%20Hibbert/100106dh12.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Alonzo%20Mourning/z%20Block%20Party/dwight%20howard/JSmadedwighthowardtotaljoke2010-11.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Dwight%20Howard/20100516Celtics-at-magic-ECF-G1-dwighthoward-6TOs.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/z%20orlando%20magic%20with%20dwight%20howard/--2.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Rasheed%20Wallace/VS/dwight%20howard/rasheed-vs-dwight-2.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Dwight%20Howard/6bafc9d2.jpg

Real Superman good old SHAQ vs fake superman dwight coward

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Dwight%20Howard/poordwighthowardagainstshaq20091112.jpg

[MMM]

I have Howard somewhere between 13-20 currently we'll see if he can crack the top 10.

[blablabla]

top 15

[I.R.Beast]

if he keeps up like this, he's top 10.
he can surely be on par with ewing and admiral. he's already surpassed zo imo.

are u serious?.....Hell no he aint better than zo was.....He is not the defensive player that alonzo mourning was nor the offensive player. Dwight howard is very overrated. he has way to many games where he dissappears offensively.

[nbacardDOTnet]

are u serious?.....Hell no he aint better than zo was.....He is not the defensive player that alonzo mourning was nor the offensive player. Dwight howard is very overrated. he was way to many games where he dissappears offensively.

amen

ZO
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Alonzo%20Mourning/rookiealonzomourninghitsthebuzzerbe.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Alonzo%20Mourning/VS/David%20Robinson/zooverrobinson.gif


http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Alonzo%20Mourning/z%20Block%20Party/dwight%20howard/alonzomourningrejectsdwighthoward.gif

dwight coward

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Houston%20Rockets/Yao%20Ming/VS%20dwight%20howard/-.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Indiana%20Pacers/Roy%20Hibbert/100106dh12.gif

[I.R.Beast]

We have to remember Dwight just turned 26. He has many more years to forge his legacy. He marginally improved his offense after working with Hakeem 1.5 years ago.

He's also in a system that revolves around having several three-point shooting role players. We need to see what kind of player he is when and if he changes teams.

He can take his game to another level if he joins the right coach/system.
fixed....Howard is on his 8th season...he aint gettin much better than he is now. He is not cracking that top ten in Centers....He has alot of work to do in the next four years before he hits 30. I just dont see it with this guy. Just such an overrated player.

[kumquat]

He's been in the league for 8 seasons as the magic's go to guy. His best season is 22ppg.

A career average of 1.5 assists per game with over 3 turnovers a game has barely moved in his 8 years in the league.

Dwight just has horrible offense. He gets most of his points by athleticism alone. Over a third of his points off dunks. He's horrible at passing out of double teams, can't shoot a jumper to save his life, has rudimentary post moves at best.

He should barely be mentioned above Mutombo when you consider the competition Mutombo faced.

[I.R.Beast]

He's been in the league for 8 seasons as the magic's go to guy. His best season is 22ppg.

A career average of 1.5 assists per game with over 3 turnovers a game has barely moved in his 8 years in the league.

Dwight just has horrible offense. He gets most of his points by athleticism alone. Over a third of his points off dunks. He's horrible at passing out of double teams, can't shoot a jumper to save his life, has rudimentary post moves at best.

He should barely be mentioned above Mutombo when you consider the competition Mutombo faced.
PREACH!!!!...... IMO howard needs to be a second option, being a first option as a big man your passing ability has got to be above average for the position.

[nbacardDOTnet]

He's been in the league for 8 seasons as the magic's go to guy. His best season is 22ppg.

A career average of 1.5 assists per game with over 3 turnovers a game has barely moved in his 8 years in the league.

Dwight just has horrible offense. He gets most of his points by athleticism alone. Over a third of his points off dunks. He's horrible at passing out of double teams, can't shoot a jumper to save his life, has rudimentary post moves at best.

He should barely be mentioned above Mutombo when you consider the competition Mutombo faced.

great analysis

and even d12 will play 10 years more, he won't reach MT. Mutombo's crazy block record.

MT. Mutombo

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/Dikembe%20Mutombo/VS/Hakeem%20Olajuwon/aa27f5ae.gif


against Karl Malone and John Stockton 's Jazz (Playoffs)

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/Dikembe%20Mutombo/VS/1994POs2RvsUtahJazz.jpg




d-12 against weak Bobcats

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Dwight%20Howard/Fixed1avi_000179125.jpg

[Teanett]

are u serious?.....Hell no he aint better than zo was.....He is not the defensive player that alonzo mourning was nor the offensive player. Dwight howard is very overrated. he has way to many games where he dissappears offensively.

i was thinking about this when i watched last night's game... and i have to take it back. my apologies to zo.
dwight cant consistently stay in games and he is sub-wilt in ft's. big weaknesses. zo was also a better defender.
the reason for me saying that he surpassed zo was zo's kdney ailment, which robbed him of almost half his career.

[I.R.Beast]

i was thinking about this when i watched last night's game... and i have to take it back. my apologies to zo.
dwight cant consistently stay in games and he is sub-wilt in ft's. big weaknesses. zo was also a better defender.
the reason for me saying that he surpassed zo was zo's kdney ailment, which robbed him of almost half his career.

it's a damn shame what happened to zo. But even in 20 minutes per game with miami his last few years Zo impacted the game on the defensive end more than Howard does...Damn near 3 blocks in 20 minutes is just sick.

[nbacardDOTnet]

it's a damn shame what happened to zo. But even in 20 minutes per game with miami his last few years Zo impacted the game on the defensive end more than Howard does...Damn near 3 blocks in 20 minutes is just sick.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Alonzo%20Mourning/z%20Block%20Party/terry1.gif

[dude77]

born after 1994 huh? fukken kids...:facepalm
http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/shaq-superman-magic.png
http://accidentalmommies.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Shaquille-ONeal-tattoo.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3644/3446462947_14a74fb5dd.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_h9jM93aGqfs/R6tT_iLJH9I/AAAAAAAAAs8/PIB_NaSMi5o/s320/p1.trade.jpg


damn .. look how small the ball looks in his hand

[HurricaneKid]

I didn't realize Shaq had so many aliases.

You guys are off your rocker on some of these. I LOVE Zo. But he wasn't near the level of D12.

There literally isn't even an argument that any other center in the league was the best in any of the last 4+ seasons.

Ewing was 1st team All-NBA ONCE. He was at his peak the 3rd-4th best C in the league (Shaq, Dream, DRob). He was NEVER on the All-NBA defensive team much less DPOY, much less three time DPOY.

Its a different game now but Dwight is asked to play away from the basket much more than the guys you are talking about.

[Whoah10115]

I didn't realize Shaq had so many aliases.

You guys are off your rocker on some of these. I LOVE Zo. But he wasn't near the level of D12.

There literally isn't even an argument that any other center in the league was the best in any of the last 4+ seasons.

Ewing was 1st team All-NBA ONCE. He was at his peak the 3rd-4th best C in the league (Shaq, Dream, DRob). He was NEVER on the All-NBA defensive team much less DPOY, much less three time DPOY.

Its a different game now but Dwight is asked to play away from the basket much more than the guys you are talking about.


He never made 1st Team All-Defense, because two of the top 7 or 8 defenders of all-time were centers during that era. But he was 3 times 2nd Team All-Defense.


And in his prime, he was at one point better than Robinson and somewhat even with Hakeem, whose prime would come later on. Also, regardless of the regular season, Shaq didn't pass Ewing until Ewing was on the decline.

[LJJ]

He's not better than Russell, Chamberlain, KAJ, Oneal, Mikan, Moses, Hakeem.

Other than those players everybody is arguable, or will be by the end of his career.

[Teanett]

You guys are off your rocker on some of these. I LOVE Zo. But he wasn't near the level of D12.


really???
i'm certain prime zo would thoroughly dominate this version of kg and not stumble to two embarrassing losses.

[HurricaneKid]

He never made 1st Team All-Defense, because two of the top 7 or 8 defenders of all-time were centers during that era. But he was 3 times 2nd Team All-Defense.


3xDPOY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3X 2nd team all Def

The league allowed big men to do far more back then than they do now which is why there were so many more anchor C's in the league. There aren't ANY outside of howard and Bynum anymore. That he is able to do something no one else can do shouldn't be considered a slight on him.


And in his prime, he was at one point better than Robinson and somewhat even with Hakeem, whose prime would come later on. Also, regardless of the regular season, Shaq didn't pass Ewing until Ewing was on the decline.

That means you are giving Ewing a really tight "peak". The one year he took the NYK to the Finals he got humiliated by Dream when he got there. Robinson and Shaq were definitively better that year as well. The three of them were 1-2-3 in the league in PPG, PER, FGM, WS, etc.

[Teanett]

That means you are giving Ewing a really tight "peak". The one year he took the NYK to the Finals he got humiliated by Dream when he got there. Robinson and Shaq were definitively better that year as well. The three of them were 1-2-3 in the league in PPG, PER, FGM, WS, etc.

ewing's "peak" is 5 seasons, 90-94, during which he was around 26/11/3.5 (this playing along oakley, who was the 3rd best rebounder in the nba then).
88-92 he was better than both robinson and dream, imo.

[Dwade305]

Using accolades or awards as an advantage when comparing Dwight to past centers is bogus. Use something else, like you know..compare their actual games.

[ShaqAttack3234]

First..... :oldlol: at nbacarddotnet at it again. The kid is probably sitting in front of his computer looking at those gifs and pictures clapping, laughing and drooling. Not sure why he posts those, it means nothing in this debate. And it means nothing as far as how good Dwight is. Never has, never will. So keep wasting your time, moron.

'99/'00 Zo was definitely right around Dwight's level. Not sure who I'd say was better between current Dwight and prime Zo.

But those acting like Zo didn't have his flaws or fair share of bad games(like Dwight or anyone has) are kidding themselves.

The problem is, people put every bad game has under a microscope, yet don't do the same for the players he is compared to. It's an incredibly biased and ignorant way of comparing players.

There's all of this talk about Zo's intensity and him being a warrior, but he was known for getting frustrated and pretty much taking himself out of games mentally.

The fact is, Dwight has already had a better playoff career than Zo had in his prime.

But to be honest, Dwight's accomplishments will probably cause people to rank him over players he's simply not better than, which is why just looking at a list of accomplishments is not a good way to rank players, imo.

As far as where Dwight ranks among all-time centers? Probably somewhere in the top 11-15 range.



That means you are giving Ewing a really tight "peak".

I take peak to mean a player's best year. I consider prime to be their best 4 or 5 years or whatever.

Ewing was arguably the best center from 1990-1992, right in the conversation, and the best in 1990, imo. I'd say he was second best in '93, Hakeem was on a different level by that season, a level which Dwight will never approach either, so being second best that year isn't half bad.

I'd also take Ewing over Dwight. Just a better player, imo.

[Whoah10115]

3xDPOY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3X 2nd team all Def

The league allowed big men to do far more back then than they do now which is why there were so many more anchor C's in the league. There aren't ANY outside of howard and Bynum anymore. That he is able to do something no one else can do shouldn't be considered a slight on him.



That means you are giving Ewing a really tight "peak". The one year he took the NYK to the Finals he got humiliated by Dream when he got there. Robinson and Shaq were definitively better that year as well. The three of them were 1-2-3 in the league in PPG, PER, FGM, WS, etc.



And that Ewing had more competition for All-Defense shouldn't be held against him. You're point is very one way.



Also, Hakeem didn't humiliate Ewing. Ewing didn't shoot or score well, and Riley was outcoached. He made a huge mistake with the way he handled Starks' offense in that series (and all of the next season). Ewing was dominating on the glass and set a record for blocked shots. He was also just a beast defender in that series. Unfortunately, he didn't go 1v1 vs Hakeem as much as anyone would want, but when they did go at it, it was great to see.


Those teams were pretty even and the series went to 7, with Riley really mishandling the offense.



With respect to Shaq, he was thoroughly outplayed by Hakeem. When Shaq
is winning, he's beasting. When he's losing, he's often putting up the same numbers. Sometimes, like in the series against Detroit, it's him playing well despite his team being outplayed. Sometimes, like in the Houston series, it's just him getting his and not doing jack shit. Hakeem had a Hall-of-Fame 1st option (not really too much out of his prime) as his 2nd option. Overall, his team had improved. Yet, he was absolutely better in the Orlando series, individually and almost completely 1v1.



Like I said, regular season aside. In 94 and 95 Shaq had better seasons than Ewing (tho not definitively at all, in fact it was close) but he wasn't a better player. In a series in either 94 or 95, if the difference was between Ewing and Shaq, the Knicks would beat the Magic.

[Teanett]

But those acting like Zo didn't have his flaws or fair share of bad games(like Dwight or anyone has) are kidding themselves.

The problem is, people put every bad game has under a microscope, yet don't do the same for the players he is compared to. It's an incredibly biased and ignorant way of comparing players.

There's all of this talk about Zo's intensity and him being a warrior, but he was known for getting frustrated and pretty much taking himself out of games mentally.


it's not one bad game with dwight. it's a tendency. it's part of his game to be foul-prone and a terrible ft-shooter.

zo's "frustration" has much to do with his competition. he was undersized, going up against the knicks, shaq, dream, robinson+duncan, mutombo, smits+ the davis bros, ostertag+malone... he was the same size as chris webber or shawn kemp.

[nbacardDOTnet]

First..... :oldlol: at nbacarddotnet at it again. The kid is probably sitting in front of his computer looking at those gifs and pictures clapping, laughing and drooling. Not sure why he posts those, it means nothing in this debate. And it means nothing as far as how good Dwight is. Never has, never will. So keep wasting your time, moron.



Thank you for confirming you are a LOSER.

No, rather you have been wasting full of your life for licking d-12's @ss, no brainer d12 bandwagoner.
Your all thread and posts have been fully crap :wtf: and :blah .


I've gotten most of those pics during watching games. Haven't took much time. If you think I spent much time, you are moron.

Get a life, dude. It's not for me but for you.

Posts: 11,100 and too much great repped ?
Did ESPN give you just only penny for that ? :roll:

Where's your life ? Nowhere and Nothing !!

Because you are poor.
So Just licking d-12's @ss to mastabate. It's all your useless life.
(IF I were you, I would kill myself 20 years ago rather licking trash ronny james dio 's @ss.
I can't understand how you are still alive to endure your trailer park life.)



You do so much @ this forum and poor youtube channel.
(only licking d-12's @ss?), right ?


Again, your man d-12 always sucks like this.

What did you do after those games ?
You sobbed in the bed because you fully know and confirmed again d-12 is trash.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/z%20orlando%20magic%20with%20dwight%20howard/20120123atCeltics/20120123atCeltics-trashorlandomagic-with-dwighthoward.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/z%20orlando%20magic%20with%20dwight%20howard/20120126vsCeltics/20120126atorlandomagic-KevinGarnett-DocRivers-1.jpg

Maybe The reason you always insists d-12 is the greatest in the history, you are nerd and really really poor and have no money to entertain.

Keep licking trash ronny james dio and d-12 @ss, if you want.
(And you will have to sell your blood and body someday.)

But I would recommend you get a job (you won't get great job to make over six digit $/year tho) and save money for your useless rest of life.
(and before selling your blood)

Back to the real world.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/1%20Miami%20Heat/justgotreal.gif


I don't think d-12 will give you anything to you for licking d-12's @ss.
(and the same to ronny james dio.)

It's my advice. :D

[ShaqAttack3234]

it's not one bad game with dwight. it's a tendency. it's part of his game to be foul-prone and a terrible ft-shooter.

Zo was foul prone as well, not a particularly good FT shooter for most of his prime either and turnover prone, just like Dwight.

Zo had more than his fair share of bad games as well. Just like Dwight has.

Both have also had many dominant games. The fact is, Dwight's bad games are magnified more.


zo's "frustration" has much to do with his competition. he was undersized, going up against the knicks, shaq, dream, robinson+duncan, mutombo, smits+ the davis bros, ostertag+malone... he was the same size as chris webber or shawn kemp.

Dwight is about the same size as Zo. And either way, frustration like that when it's detrimental to his game is still a weakness.

He didn't only struggle vs elite big men either and then dominate every average/weak big man.

Take the '96 series vs Chicago. He was invisible and most of the time, he didn't stand out more than Luc Longley that series.

Both were/are great players, but had their flaws. Neither were Hakeem or Shaq, or particularly close.


Thank you for confirming you are a LOSER.

:cry: The capital letters in particular make this even more hurtful. Oh, how can I possibly go on?


No, rather you have been wasting full of your life for licking d-12's @ss, no brainer d12 bandwagoner.
Your all thread and posts have been fully crap :wtf: and :blah .

:roll: What language is this? Surely this can't be English. I speak fluent English and don't recognize this language.


I've gotten most of those pics during watching games. Haven't took much time. If you think I spent much time, you are moron.

Wow, you're a smart one, aren't you? Completely missing the point.

I'll try to dumb it down for you. The point was that posting those pictures is meaningless, and the fact that you think it somehow proves a point is what makes me laugh.

I could post a picture of Zo's statline in game 1 of the '96 playoffs. When he had 10 points, 2 rebounds and 6 turnovers while shooting 3/8 and fouling out in 21 minutes.

Or I could post a gif of Zo getting blocked or dunked on. But it wouldn't prove anything.

Unlike you, I actually understand what I'm watching. I'm not simple-minded enough to think that would fool anything. The scary thing is, I actually think


Posts: 11,100 and too much great repped ?
Did ESPN give you just only penny for that ? :roll:

Very original, as if it takes an entire day to make 11-12 posts on a message board. :oldlol: And how is getting repped a bad thing?

Sorry, I can't understand that second sentence. "Did ESPN give you just only penny for that ?" :wtf: What exactly does that mean, and is it supposed to offend me?


Where's your life ? Nowhere and Nothing !!

I'll tell you what I have accomplished in my life. I've learned how to type a coherent sentence, which is more than I can say about you.


Because you are poor.

Maybe, I can earn some more money and become an English professor like yourself.


So Just licking d-12's @ss to mastabate. It's all your useless life.

Mastabate? Showing off your spelling skills again...


(IF I were you, I would kill myself 20 years ago rather licking trash ronny james dio 's @ss.

:oldlol: I don't think you're even capable of killing yourself intentionally. You're not smart enough to figure out a way. After all, you're not even smart enough to spell Ronnie.


I can't understand how you are still alive to endure your trailer park life.)

Simple, I get great enjoyment out of laughing at idiots like you. It's very entertaining.


You do so much @ this forum and poor youtube channel.
(only licking d-12's @ss?), right ?

You've said "licking Dwight's ass" several times. You must think that's really clever.

"Gold, Jerry, gold!"

http://www.theessentialsoftrading.com/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/bania.jpg


Again, your man d-12 always sucks like this.

Always? hmmm. Last I checked, the man averaged 23/14 last year and 20/16 so far this year. So simple logic would tell me, he doesn't always suck like that. Doesn't seem complicated, then again, you don't have the mental capacity I do, so I have to be patient with you.


What did you do after those games ?
You sobbed in the bed because you fully know and confirmed again d-12 is trash.

Let me ask you a question. By this logic, what do you do every time Dwight scores 30-40, or has a 20/20 game?


Maybe The reason you always insists d-12 is the greatest in the history, you are nerd and really really poor and have no money to entertain.

Ok?


Keep licking trash ronny james dio and d-12 @ss, if you want.
(And you will have to sell your blood and body someday.)

Do you really think I'm that interested in your opinion of the music I listen to? I can already tell you're not intelligent to play an instrument yourself, so why would your opinion matter to me? I don't need you to like the same music to validate it. In fact, if we did like the same music, I'd have to question my tastes.


But I would recommend you get a job (you won't get great job to make over six digit $/year tho) and save money for your useless rest of life.
(and before selling your blood)

Well, needless to say, I'm very interested in what you recommend. After all, I'm sure you're quite a success yourself. I mean, how could you not get far in life with your mastery of the English language?


I don't think d-12 will give you anything to you for licking d-12's @ss.
(and the same to ronny james dio.)

You sure do have licking men's asses on your mind. Got anything you want to share with us?

I have to laugh at how obviously angry you got, and how desperate you were to offend me. The funny thing is with all of those attempts to insult me, about 75% of them didn't make sense, and the ones that did were the type of things I'd expect from a 9 year old, and to top it all off, you used them 3-4 times.

Good to know how easily I can get under your skin to the point where you lose it. I can pretty much toy with you and there's nothing your tiny brain can do about it.

[Teanett]

Zo was foul prone as well, not a particularly good FT shooter for most of his prime either and turnover prone, just like Dwight.


there was no "hack-a-zo" right? 69% percent for his career. not great but not as catastrophic as dwight esp this year.
zo fouled a lot but not this ticky-tacky stuff that dwight does every other game.



Dwight is about the same size as Zo.


but he'snot "undersized" in today's nba.



Both have also had many dominant games. The fact is, Dwight's bad games are magnified more.


that's because of his competition.
he is considered the most dominant center in the league, yet orlando is not a contender...:confusedshrug:

[Pointguard]

I think DH will have one of the best center resumes of all big men. He will have more DPOY awards than the others. More rebound titles than all but maybe Wilt. To me he's the third best rebounding center already. He's capable of three MVP's but Lebron, Durant and Rose will make that hard. Only Shaq in recent memory seems so much better than the next center. He dominates like Shaq frequently. With that said, I think if he was around in the mid 90's he's around 5th best. He would be stiff and unpolished in comparison to the other greats and affected by their height.

He's the beneficiary of a time with no other great centers. For that matter, a healthy Yao Ming wouldn't seem to have much problem with him and would slow him down. I think all of the great centers would affect his offensive game which, in his youth, affects his rebounding game. Doesn't always seem serious, focused or to be the sharpest knife in the draw. Doesn't pass very well but made strides this year. He remarkably, can be isolated from his team while posting monster numbers - strange stuff but he does it. Still is young despite being in his 8th year. Is a bit of a clown. Wonder how he would do with pressure.

Seems like he needs other star power and will likely get his wish. And it seems like he will win with it.