Carmelo 1 point(0-7), Knicks win by 33

[Rekindled]

hmm
discuss

[RRR3]

Amare>Melo

[christian1923]

Bobcats

[MeLO MvP 15]

What's to discuss? Did you even watch the game or did you just read the box score?

He wasn't looking to shoot early and since NY got a big lead he just never tried to score because it was never necessary. He still rebounded and had some great passes (while only getting 4 assists there were at least 4 great passes that lead to fouls).

[Collie]

Shit, he's killing my fantasy team.

[cteach111]

stats don't matter. he was moving the ball and he played like he had teammates.

This is how he needs to play. He's an explosive scorer that needs to learn how to score within the rhythm of the offense. The Knicks can improve even more if he gets a better handle on how to use his scoring talent effectively.

[Draz]

He was doing other things. Finding other players, rebounding and shit, yea that's right, shit. He's on a major shooting slump. If we can play like this and win with him playing like this, anythings possible. Tyson + Amare combo is great.

[vinsane01]

Looking at the boxscore alone would lead a person to believe melo scoring less would mean a better chance of winning for the knicks. But the win has probably more to do with overall team defense, a more efficient bench production, Amare getting more involved with the offense and most importantly their opponent being the bobcats. I think those factors are more important than the discrepancy involving melo's lack of production and their manner of winning.

Having said that, i think melo should try to play the same way next game and see how it'll turn out.

[Rowe]

He was doing other things. Finding other players, rebounding and shit, yea that's right, shit. He's on a major shooting slump. If we can play like this and win with him playing like this, anythings possible. Tyson + Amare combo is great.

This is the last time this will ever happen.

LOLcats aren't on our schedule anymore.:lol

I cant believe Melo's now become self-conscious about his "shooting" due to the media pressure. He needs to look for his shot, he cant be worried about people calling him a "chucker" or "black hole". Hes our best scorer and we need him to score. Kobe's took the same approach and he doesnt give a ****. Melo needs to do the same.

[kingBynum]

Crapmelo stunk tonight :oldlol: See what happens when he shoots less, they play together as a team. Crapmelo is better of lying on the floor making snow angels :roll:

[Rowe]

Looking at the boxscore alone would lead a person to believe melo scoring less would mean a better chance of winning for the knicks. But the win has probably more to do with overall team defense, a more efficient bench production, Amare getting more involved with the offense and most importantly their opponent being the bobcats. I think those factors are more important than the discrepancy involving melo's lack of production and their manner of winning.

Having said that, i think melo should try to play the same way next game and see how it'll turn out.
Well we play Cleveland so that should be another easy win.

Just as long as he gets back to himself by the Heat game.

[Rowe]

Crapmelo stunk tonight :oldlol: See what happens when he shoots less, they play together as a team. Crapmelo is better of lying on the floor making snow angels :roll:
Terrible attempt at a nickname.

[The_Yearning]

After beating one of the worst teams in the league Knicks fan believe Tyson Chandler has proved his worth :roll:

[Scoooter]

Amar'e has to be the first option offensively. The pick and roll (even in the limited caliber the guards can manage right now) with Amar'e is just too effective. You get him going to the basket and dunking or getting fouled, then he starts hitting his jumper. He wasn't forcing anything and he was playing within the flow of the offense. And he was coexisting nicely with Tyson Chandler (who was monstrous). Melo-ball is an offense killer, plain and simple.

The Knicks desperately need a point guard.

[Rowe]

Amar'e has to be the first option offensively. The pick and roll (even in the limited caliber the guards can manage right now) with Amar'e is just too effective. You get him going to the basket and dunking or getting fouled, then he starts hitting his jumper. He wasn't forcing anything and he was playing within the flow of the offense. And he was coexisting nicely with Tyson Chandler (who was monstrous). Melo-ball is an offense killer, plain and simple.

The Knicks desperately need a point guard.

Glad you removed that trade.

I was ready to reach through the screen and slap you.:lol

[Scoooter]

This is the last time this will ever happen.

LOLcats aren't on our schedule anymore.:lol

I cant believe Melo's now become self-conscious about his "shooting" due to the media pressure. He needs to look for his shot, he cant be worried about people calling him a "chucker" or "black hole". Hes our best scorer and we need him to score. Kobe's took the same approach and he doesnt give a ****. Melo needs to do the same.
He abolutely does not. Shot-clock-eating-isolation-chucking is never a good idea. You sound like someone who would rather have Melo put up big scoring numbers than have the Knicks win games.

[Scoooter]

Glad you removed that trade.

I was ready to reach through the screen and slap you.:lol
Thinking about it I wasn't sure if Morris was a SF or PF. He's, like, 6'8", I think. I think he's a PF, but he can shoot the three. With Nash getting him open looks.

Melo for D-Will and change would make the Knicks a better team.

[Eric Cartman]

Always thought that Melo should be more of a decoy to Chandler & Stat. Similar to the role Lebron takes in Miami. Because there is only one Kobe Bryant. If Carmelo tries to be Kobe everynight he wont win a game.

[Rowe]

Thinking about it I wasn't sure if Morris was a SF or PF. He's, like, 6'8", I think. I think he's a PF, but he can shoot the three. With Nash getting him open looks.

Melo for D-Will and change would make the Knicks a better team.
Markeiff is a 6'10 PF.

His twin brother Marcus is the one who wants to be a SF in the mold, ironically, of Carmelo Anthony. (srs)

& I would never do a Melo for D-Will deal unless we had an answer at SG or SF who can be relied upon.

Much rather live with Baron at PG and Melo at SF than D-Will at PG and Bill Walker at SF.

[Scoooter]

Markeiff is a 6'10 PF.

His twin brother Marcus is the one who wants to be a SF in the mold, ironically, of Carmelo Anthony. (srs)
Ah.


& I would never do a Melo for D-Will deal unless we had an answer at SG or SF who can be relied upon.

Much rather live with Baron at PG and Melo at SF than D-Will at PG and Bill Walker at SF.
I disagree. I could see us playing Shumpert at the two and sliding Fields over to the three. With D-Will running the pick and roll, those two would get a lot of wide open shots.

An elite PG like D-Will or Nash makes everyone on the team better. Melo hasn't demonstrated the ability to make anyone better. In fact, so far it's been just the opposite.

[Rowe]

He abolutely does not. Shot-clock-eating-isolation-chucking is never a good idea. You sound like someone who would rather have Melo put up big scoring numbers than have the Knicks win games.
We're not facing a terrible team like the LOLcats every night and you can't expect that he can play an entire game without scoring and win the game.

What the **** do you expect Melo to do? Score 15 points and get 8 Assists? You're the ****ing dumbass who thinks we need to run our offense through Amare via the Pick & Roll because its "too effective". Really? When was this? It certainly wasn't in New York. We can try to do that all game against Miami or any other team not owned by Michael Jordan, and its still going to come down to Melo to win us the game by carrying the team on his back.

You're nonsense hate for him is annoying considering you pull the same bullshit in every thread. We understand that he isn't a Point Forward, he has mediocre court vision, and our spacing is so terrible that everybody ends up in an isolation situation. We understand our ball movement will be better when Baron can handle the ball and Melo can get it back out to him to find an open shooter instead of Melo taking a bad shot. Placing all the blame on Melo for our losses is ridiculous, but thats your job to be an ignorant dumbass who suggests a Melo trade at every opportunity.

We're not moving Melo for Steve Nash & Markeiff Morris.
We're not moving Melo for Deron Williams & "change".
We're not benching Melo.
We're not using the amnesty clause on Melo.

Grow the **** up.

[Rekindled]

Melo fields for Dwill + Marshon Brooks id do that.

[longtime lurker]

Uh oh! Melo about to get the Kobe treatment :lol

[Scoooter]

We're not facing a terrible team like the LOLcats every night and you can't expect that he can play an entire game without scoring and win the game.

What the **** do you expect Melo to do? Score 15 points and get 8 Assists? You're the ****ing dumbass who thinks we need to run our offense through Amare via the Pick & Roll because its "too effective". Really? When was this? It certainly wasn't in New York. We can try to do that all game against Miami or any other team not owned by Michael Jordan, and its still going to come down to Melo to win us the game by carrying the team on his back.

You're nonsense hate for him is annoying considering you pull the same bullshit in every thread. We understand that he isn't a Point Forward, he has mediocre court vision, and our spacing is so terrible that everybody ends up in an isolation situation. We understand our ball movement will be better when Baron can handle the ball and Melo can get it back out to him to find an open shooter instead of Melo taking a bad shot. Placing all the blame on Melo for our losses is ridiculous, but thats your job to be an ignorant dumbass who suggests a Melo trade at every opportunity.

We're not moving Melo for Steve Nash & Markeiff Morris.
We're not moving Melo for Deron Williams & "change".
We're not benching Melo.
We're not using the amnesty clause on Melo.

Grow the **** up.
:lol

[D12"Magic"]

Melo fields for Dwill + Marshon Brooks id do that.
Not a chance you guys get Brooks, if a deal happens :no:

[Lebron23]

Amare should be the 1st scoring option for the Knicks. Melo needs to play the role of Prime Scottie Pippen, and 1997-2002 Kobe Bryant.

[Rowe]

I disagree. I could see us playing Shumpert at the two and sliding Fields over to the three. With D-Will running the pick and roll, those two would get a lot of wide open shots.
Which means absolutely nothing if we dont have a closer. Shumpert & Fields cant be relied on each night to split the load at the SG position on a team that only needs them to do 2 thing: Shoot the 3 & Defense. Both of their shots are off and Iman has no conscious with his shot selection.

We essentially become the 2010 Utah Jazz minus any defensive impact.

We certainly cant be compared to any of those Phoenix teams under D'Antoni if thats what you're trying to hint at.:oldlol:




An elite PG like D-Will or Nash makes everyone on the team better. Melo hasn't demonstrated the ability to make anyone better. In fact, so far it's been just the opposite.
Melo has demonstrated the ability to carry a team throughout an entire game & season. Even if you added Deron or Nash to this team as it stands right now, we'll still rely heavily on Melo stepping up in order to win games considering there is absolutely nobody else on this team that is productive on offense.

Are Deron/Nash & Amare supposed to contribute for 100 points combined?

Its not Melo's fault that Amare is a 1 trick pony who is absolutely worthless unless hes on a team built around feeding him the ball. He's making $20 Million and he cant do anything on the fly, such as getting the ball and creating his own shot. He stands around and looks stupid simply because he has the basketball IQ of a Sweedish Fish.

Yet, we need to add a PG specfically so we can make him our #1 option and run plays everytime down the court so he can contribute something?

& Of all people we need to move our best player for a 37 year old Steve Nash to do it? How about No.:violin:

[Rowe]

Amare should be the 1st scoring option for the Knicks. Melo needs to play the role of Prime Scottie Pippen, and 1997-2002 Kobe Bryant.
Amare cant be a Jordan nor Shaq type of player.

At no point should Amare be a #1 scoring option for any team thinking about the Playoffs.

His offensive game relies entirely on a PG to get him the ball off of Picks. What happened to his post game? When did he fall in love with 18 footers? Why hasn't he learned how to box out and rebound? At least hes shown a little more effort on defense.

If Amare were a #1 option, in the end you're still stuck trying to get him involved on every offensive possession. You'll win some games, but you'll lose just as many when even that isn't good enough simply because you need someone/something else to put you over the top. Thats specifically why we made the Melo deal, he's supposed to put us over the top but Amare still has to play his part to get it done. So far he hasn't done a damn thing.

Any legit #1 option in this league isn't as entirely dependent on another player as Amare is. He's struggling right now to even be a #2 option.

Melo doesn't need to change his game, its Amare who needs to bring something to the table instead of watching Melo carry the team.

[Rowe]

:lol
Im mad.

[Bajanmale]

Im mad.
Straight up mad, lol but understandable, u are passionate about your team. Hope the Knicks work this thing out before panic set in and somebody gets traded to Orlando.

[bluechox2]

*brussard sitting in his house in his wifebeater n shorts chatting to SAS*

CHRIS: "hey stephen, im going to tweet *chuckle chuckle* knicks should offer melo,davis and shumpert *chuckle chuckle* for dwill , roflmao"

SAS: HA HA WHHATTT! i already got them dumping stat and ty for howard. i set the base standard, so knicks need to include more to sweeten the deal.

CHRIS:"also, heat 'allegedly' inquire about howard" *chuckle chuckle*

"Kevin Lov signs for 65..." im just picking this out of my ass

[iDunk]

That just shows how good the Knicks can be if everyone is on the same page.

If Melo had his usual 20+ tonight Knicks might've won by like 40+.

Knicks lose by little to their opponents just because STAT and Melo contribute like 30-35 combined on some nights. Now, if they just have like 10 more points combined on those losses they wouldn't have been losses.

[BlackVVaves]

Ah.


I disagree. I could see us playing Shumpert at the two and sliding Fields over to the three. With D-Will running the pick and roll, those two would get a lot of wide open shots.

An elite PG like D-Will or Nash makes everyone on the team better. Melo hasn't demonstrated the ability to make anyone better. In fact, so far it's been just the opposite.

This. I was actually just telling my boy this today, that the Knicks would be infinitely better with a lineup of

Chandler
Amare
Fields
Shumpert
D-Will

than presently constructed. You sure up your bench with some shooters, tell Fields his new first, middle, last, and nick name is defense, and you have yourself a title contender on the floor, not just on paper.

[dbronx42]

That just shows how good the Knicks can be if everyone is on the same page.

If Melo had his usual 20+ tonight Knicks might've won by like 40+.

Knicks lose by little to their opponents just because STAT and Melo contribute like 30-35 combined on some nights. Now, if they just have like 10 more points combined on those losses they wouldn't have been losses.

Lol any team in the NBA can be that good on certain nights... You have absolutely no way of knowing if Carmelo had scored his usual 20+ that you would have even won the freaking game. He shot 7 times tonight. You really think it would be that way if he got his 20+? ....Ummmm no....

Carmelo is now shooting 39% this season... Certified chucker as a New York Knick. Then the 1 night they dominate Melo shoots 7 times.

But okay. That's almost worse than the Baron Davis argument from Knicks fans.

[Droid101]

That just shows how good the Knicks can be if everyone is on the same page.

If Melo had his usual 20+ tonight Knicks might've won by like 40+.

Knicks lose by little to their opponents just because STAT and Melo contribute like 30-35 combined on some nights. Now, if they just have like 10 more points combined on those losses they wouldn't have been losses.
No. They straight suck. Anyone can blow up against the Cats.

[Scoooter]

Which means absolutely nothing if we dont have a closer. Shumpert & Fields cant be relied on each night to split the load at the SG position on a team that only needs them to do 2 thing: Shoot the 3 & Defense. Both of their shots are off and Iman has no conscious with his shot selection.
Which is why we need to get the ball out of Shump's hands. And not into Melo's, cause niether of them are good decision makers.


We essentially become the 2010 Utah Jazz minus any defensive impact.
Shump and Fields are both good defenders, and if we had D-Will (or Nash) running point, they could save energy by not thinking. Shumpert, Fields, and Chandler playing D in the same line-up; we'd be fine. **** out of here with that "Jazz without D crap". It's not like Melo is a young Ron Artest.



We certainly cant be compared to any of those Phoenix teams under D'Antoni if thats what you're trying to hint at.:oldlol:
So we could have a great point guard (maybe Nash himself) running a pick-and-roll heavy offense with Amar'e Stoudemire on a Mike D'Antoni coached team, but there wouldn't be any comparisons to the Phoenix Suns. You obviously live in a very special reality. :roll:


Melo has demonstrated the ability to carry a team throughout an entire game & season. Even if you added Deron or Nash to this team as it stands right now, we'll still rely heavily on Melo stepping up in order to win games considering there is absolutely nobody else on this team that is productive on offense.
Yeah, Melo can carry a team to the first round and lose 6 years in a row before they add a PG who's biggest job is making sure Melo isn't the leader.

Nobody is productive on offense because the ball movement is crap because we have three pointguards with half a brain between them and Melo is a black hole. If you added D-Will or Nash, guys like Fields, Shumpert and Chandler would all have an easier time scoring points. :hammerhead:


Are Deron/Nash & Amare supposed to contribute for 100 points combined?
Melo and Amar'e are? What are you even talking about? The only argument you have is that we'd lose the "clutch" element that Melo birngs to last second shots. But you can't even make that coherently; I have to do it for you.


Its not Melo's fault that Amare is a 1 trick pony who is absolutely worthless unless hes on a team built around feeding him the ball. He's making $20 Million and he cant do anything on the fly, such as getting the ball and creating his own shot. He stands around and looks stupid simply because he has the basketball IQ of a Sweedish Fish.
Amar'e sucks because he can't score unless his teammates give him the ball. Wow, what a revelation. Players need the ball to score. You should be a coach or something.


Yet, we need to add a PG specfically so we can make him our #1 option and run plays everytime down the court so he can contribute something?
You're right, we should just let Melo bring the ball up court himself and set up an Iso for 23 seconds on every possession. Because that's worked out great so far. Iso's win championships. :roll: :roll:

It's simple: Amar'e came to the Knicks, and they got better. Melo came to the Knicks, and they got worse.


& Of all people we need to move our best player for a 37 year old Steve Nash to do it? How about No.:violin:
D-Will's much younger. :cheers:

[Faberg]

This is the last time this will ever happen.

LOLcats aren't on our schedule anymore.:lol

I cant believe Melo's now become self-conscious about his "shooting" due to the media pressure. He needs to look for his shot, he cant be worried about people calling him a "chucker" or "black hole". Hes our best scorer and we need him to score. Kobe's took the same approach and he doesnt give a ****. Melo needs to do the same.

Actually, we have TNT game against the Bobcats in April...

[joshwake]

What's to discuss? Did you even watch the game or did you just read the box score?

He wasn't looking to shoot early and since NY got a big lead he just never tried to score because it was never necessary. He still rebounded and had some great passes (while only getting 4 assists there were at least 4 great passes that lead to fouls).
Yea, he meant to do it guys! sheesh!

[iDunk]

Yall neegs are bugginnn.

Can't wait for them to **** up your teams.

[KembaWalker]

This is the last time this will ever happen.

LOLcats aren't on our schedule anymore.:lol

I cant believe Melo's now become self-conscious about his "shooting" due to the media pressure. He needs to look for his shot, he cant be worried about people calling him a "chucker" or "black hole". Hes our best scorer and we need him to score. Kobe's took the same approach and he doesnt give a ****. Melo needs to do the same.

The "LOLcats" beat this particular playoff caliber team at home buddy.

[fubu05]

Pretty sure even with Melo iso-ing and taking a lot of shots, STAT won't suffer. Last year when Melo came with Billups, STAT was averaging 22 a game on solid percentages after the trade, and Melo was getting about 27 on solid percentages. Why? Cause they had a point guard who would share the shots between the players, someone to make the right decisions and run the team.

The problem this season hasn't been Melo shooting, it's been the lack of a decision maker on the floor, someone to say okay the PnR is working, lets keep running it STAT. Or all right the PnR isn't working that well anymore or we're getting too predictable, let's switch things up and go to Melo on the block.

Knicks have had no one to make the right decisions and distribute the wealth. This year you were asking the guy who takes his shots and is a shooter to actually run the offense. He can't do that though, he's never done that in his whole career, and will probably never be able to. Melo can make good decisions, and is an underrated passer, but when it comes to running the team, it's just not something he's built to do.

I guarantee when Baron Davis comes back, Melo will be getting anywhere from 12-20 shots a night. Stat will get anywhere from 12-20 shots a night, and they will not butt heads.

[Rowe]

Which is why we need to get the ball out of Shump's hands. And not into Melo's, cause niether of them are good decision makers.


Shump and Fields are both good defenders, and if we had D-Will (or Nash) running point, they could save energy by not thinking. Shumpert, Fields, and Chandler playing D in the same line-up; we'd be fine. **** out of here with that "Jazz without D crap". It's not like Melo is a young Ron Artest.



So we could have a great point guard (maybe Nash himself) running a pick-and-roll heavy offense with Amar'e Stoudemire on a Mike D'Antoni coached team, but there wouldn't be any comparisons to the Phoenix Suns. You obviously live in a very special reality. :roll:


Yeah, Melo can carry a team to the first round and lose 6 years in a row before they add a PG who's biggest job is making sure Melo isn't the leader.

Nobody is productive on offense because the ball movement is crap because we have three pointguards with half a brain between them and Melo is a black hole. If you added D-Will or Nash, guys like Fields, Shumpert and Chandler would all have an easier time scoring points. :hammerhead:


Melo and Amar'e are? What are you even talking about? The only argument you have is that we'd lose the "clutch" element that Melo birngs to last second shots. But you can't even make that coherently; I have to do it for you.


Amar'e sucks because he can't score unless his teammates give him the ball. Wow, what a revelation. Players need the ball to score. You should be a coach or something.


You're right, we should just let Melo bring the ball up court himself and set up an Iso for 23 seconds on every possession. Because that's worked out great so far. Iso's win championships. :roll: :roll:

It's simple: Amar'e came to the Knicks, and they got better. Melo came to the Knicks, and they got worse.


D-Will's much younger. :cheers:
http://i56.tinypic.com/2n8mno5.gif

[Scholar]

I'm sure NYK fans would gladly have Melodramatic average 1 PPG if it means blowing teams out by 30+...

And I wouldn't blame them. :D

[airchibundo507]

This. I was actually just telling my boy this today, that the Knicks would be infinitely better with a lineup of

Chandler
Amare
Fields
Shumpert
D-Will

than presently constructed. You sure up your bench with some shooters, tell Fields his new first, middle, last, and nick name is defense, and you have yourself a title contender on the floor, not just on paper.

Melo/Howard sh*ts on D-Will/Amare

[airchibundo507]

I'm sure NYK fans would gladly have Melodramatic average 1 PPG if it means blowing teams out by 30+...

And I wouldn't blame them. :D

1 ppg, 10 rpg, 5 apg, solid defense

[All Net]

Dont read too much into it....

[knickswin]

in a weird way, this is a statement game from carmelo . . .

[AngelEyes]

in a weird way, this is a statement game from carmelo . . .

A statement that he doesn't deserve his title of best scorer in the NBA. A very undeserved title for Anthony.

[Brunch@Five]

I'd rather have a player shoot 0-7 than 5-20...

[Scoooter]

http://i56.tinypic.com/2n8mno5.gif
I always thought that guy looked like Bill Duke.

[Clutch]

No need to trade Melo.

He's been playing injured for the last 5-6 games. In a normal situation he would sit down but the Knicks are in a crisis (D'Antoni's words) so he plays.
Just look at the start of the season before he had an injury,he had like 29 points per game on 46% shooting.

We don't need to trade him for an elite point guard.
Last season showed that Amare can be a beast even with a good point guard.
Raymond Felton was good,not even great because he couldn't have played pick and roll properly.

We'll have a MLE next summer,sign a solid pass-first point guard (preferably Nash) and keep Melo.

Nash
Fields or Shumpert
Melo
Amare
Tyson

Melo didn't shoot well last night but he didn't hurt the team with it.
He was moving the ball,finding the open man and was very active on the boards (11 rebounds).

Talent like Melo is exceptionally rare to find so we should be lucky to have him on our team,especially if he plays within the system and accept lower scoring numbers if that means the Knicks will win.

[AngelEyes]

No need to trade Melo.

He's been playing injured for the last 5-6 games. In a normal situation he would sit down but the Knicks are in a crisis (D'Antoni's words) so he plays.

We don't need to trade him for an elite point guard.
Last season showed that Amare can be a beast even with a good point guard.
Raymond Felton was good,not even great because he couldn't have played pick and roll properly.

We'll have a MLE next summer,sign a solid pass-first point guard (preferably Nash) and keep Melo.

Nash
Fields or Shumpert
Melo
Amare
Tyson

Melo didn't shoot well last night but he didn't hurt the team with it.
He was moving the ball,finding the open man and was very active on the boards (11 rebounds).

Talent like Melo is exceptionally rare to find so we should be lucky to have him on our team,especially if he plays within the system and accept lower scoring numbers if that means the Knicks will win.

Anthony and Stoudemire are too one dimensional for this team to go anywhere in the long run.

[Clutch]

Anthony and Stoudemire are too one dimensional for this team to go anywhere in the long run.
I disagree.

Melo is a great rebounder for a small forward. He's also a solid defender.
Not to mention his versatile offensive game.
He's a capable passer as well so if he somehow learns to play within the system he's a complete player.

Amare already knows how to play within a system if he has a good point guard,he just needs to improve his defense.

Good point guard would certainly help a lot and I'm sure they will add one in the off-season.

Knicks can be great with their core of Melo/Amare/Tyson but everyone needs to make adjustments.
Something like the Celtics Big 3 did. They don't care about their numbers,everyone have his role and they can live with scoring 0 points as long as that means their team will win.

[AngelEyes]

I disagree.

Melo is a great rebounder for a small forward. He's also a solid defender.
Not to mention his versatile offensive game.
He's a capable passer as well so if he somehow learns to play within the system he's a complete player.

Amare already knows how to play within a system if he has a good point guard,he just needs to improve his defense.

Good point guard would certainly help a lot and I'm sure they will add one in the off-season.

Knicks can be great with their core of Melo/Amare/Tyson but everyone needs to make adjustments.
Something like the Celtics Big 3 did. They don't care about their numbers,everyone have his role and they can live with scoring 0 points as long as that means their team will win.

You're being way too kind. Anthony is far from a great rebounder. He's a foward, a 6'8" foward at that with very good athleticism. 7 rebounds a game is not great, especially for a guy who's playing 35 minutes a game. He's an indifferent defender, the same as Stoudemire. He could be elite, but he doesn't give the game to game effort. That's always been the case with him. He's a decent passer at best. Definitely nothing special.

[OmniStrife]

So Melo CAN make his teammates better, by playing bad himself!

HA, in your face haters!

[knickswin]

Amare>Melo

you need to be educated, Carmelo is in a completely different class than Amar'e. Really. It is not even close.

Amar'e cannot even create for himself. That's what you have to understand. You can't put Amar'e on the floor without either another good player (either a post player or a penetrator) or a point guard capable of playing pick and roll with him decently. He'll give you absolutely nothing. The defense will just stay planted to his teammates and let him play his stupid face-up game that inevitably ends up with him either dribbling the ball off of someone else's foot or getting blocked at the rim. He really should have developed a post game at some point. He is too strong and quick not to have.

This is why I have a problem with Amar'e getting paid like he is. He's going to need his teammates to work to get him involved in the offense. I mean, Carmelo definitely should work to get him involved in the offense because that is what is best for this team, but real stars can create for themselves and therefore create for others.

And then of course everything else about his game is bad to average. Horrible defender, below average rebounder, and kind of a low IQ player.

[brisbaneman]

The problem with the Knicks is they have 2 very good players with monstrous egos, neither of which are first options on a championship contending team. Whats worse is that they don't play off each other at all. This team would be better by getting rid of one of them and adding a pure point since they already have Chandler at Center.

also, this has nothing to do with Pringles. I hate it when idiots blame the coach when the star players play like shit/play like retards.

[B-Easy8]

They won so it isn't a problem.

[AngelEyes]

The problem with the Knicks is they have 2 very good players with monstrous egos, neither of which are first options on a championship contending team. Whats worse is that they don't play off each other at all. This team would be better by getting rid of one of them and adding a pure point since they already have Chandler at Center.

also, this has nothing to do with Pringles. I hate it when idiots blame the coach when the star players play like shit/play like retards.

It may have nothing to do with Pringles, but he should have been put out to pasture a long time ago. He's a terrible coach with a garbage system with two one dimensional stars.

[brisbaneman]

It may have nothing to do with Pringles, but he should have been put out to pasture a long time ago. He's a terrible coach with a garbage system with two one dimensional stars.

Terrible coach who made it to the WCF 3 times...how many other coaches have done it? Coaches are overrated and everyone knows it's on the players. He's under pressure because those two stars have monstrous egos and are not willing to compromise/improve their games. And on top of it he's in the shittiest market. I do not see how it's his fault

[Teanett]

I'd rather have a player shoot 0-7 than 5-20...
^^this

[AngelEyes]

Terrible coach who made it to the WCF 3 times...how many other coaches have done it? Coaches are overrated and everyone knows it's on the players. He's under pressure because those two stars have monstrous egos and are not willing to compromise/improve their games. And on top of it he's in the shittiest market. I do not see how it's his fault

He had a loaded ass team in Phoenix. He had Nash at the height of his powers, Amare at his peak, Marion at his peak, Joe Johnson, Barbosa, etc. Had they had a coach in there who coach the least bit of defense they may have gotten past the western finals and actually won something. He's the god damn coach and the product on the floor is his responsibility along with the general manager. He definitely needs to take a large part of the blame.

[brisbaneman]

He had a loaded ass team in Phoenix. He had Nash at the height of his powers, Amare at his peak, Marion at his peak, Joe Johnson, Barbosa, etc. Had they had a coach in there who coach the least bit of defense they may have gotten past the western finals and actually won something. He's the god damn coach and the product on the floor is his responsibility along with the general manager. He definitely needs to take a large part of the blame.

Then was George Karl a shitty coach? because carmelo was pulling the same bullshit in denver.

[Scoooter]

you need to be educated, Carmelo is in a completely different class than Amar'e. Really. It is not even close.
Explains all his success. :lol


Amar'e cannot even create for himself. That's what you have to understand. You can't put Amar'e on the floor without either another good player (either a post player or a penetrator) or a point guard capable of playing pick and roll with him decently. He'll give you absolutely nothing. The defense will just stay planted to his teammates and let him play his stupid face-up game that inevitably ends up with him either dribbling the ball off of someone else's foot or getting blocked at the rim. He really should have developed a post game at some point. He is too strong and quick not to have.
This is short memory overeaction at it's finest. He created plenty of points for himself all of last season. He even did it in the playoffs against Kevin Garnett when Carmelo didn't show up for Game 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dokap3rSwkw). Raymond Felton was incredibly inconsistet with the pick and roll. Against single coverage, Amar'e can get his, especially with a stretch four pulling another guy out of the paint. Now, the caveat is, optimally, he needs his jumpshot to fall consistently - which this season it hasn't. He's not as good at iso-ing as Melo, but that's such an overrated part of the game that it doesn't matter.


This is why I have a problem with Amar'e getting paid like he is. He's going to need his teammates to work to get him involved in the offense. I mean, Carmelo definitely should work to get him involved in the offense because that is what is best for this team, but real stars can create for themselves and therefore create for others.
Yeah, it's working just like that for Carmelo. Creating for yourself automatically = creating for others. :roll:


And then of course everything else about his game is bad to average. Horrible defender, below average rebounder, and kind of a low IQ player.
Other than the rebounding, those are basically Melo's poroblems too. He's an idiot who doesn't play defense. The Knicks really need some brains at point. Come one, Steve. If you come to New York you can still wear orange. :rockon:

[Scoooter]

He had a loaded ass team in Phoenix. He had Nash at the height of his powers, Amare at his peak, Marion at his peak, Joe Johnson, Barbosa, etc. Had they had a coach in there who coach the least bit of defense they may have gotten past the western finals and actually won something. He's the god damn coach and the product on the floor is his responsibility along with the general manager. He definitely needs to take a large part of the blame.
I think 2007 was their year. The Jazz and the Cavs wouldn't have been as tough as the Spurs.

[fubu05]

Then was George Karl a shitty coach? because carmelo was pulling the same bullshit in denver.

You gotta understand, the 1st year people actually expected the Nuggets to go deep, they made it to the WCF and they lost cause George Karl couldn't draw up an inbounds play.

The next year they again had expectations, but when they lost George Karl due to cancer, the whole team pretty much imploded and they were done.

All other years, the Nuggets were never expected to go far, never really top seeds. Always in mediocrity.

[AngelEyes]

I think 2007 was their year. The Jazz and the Cavs wouldn't have been as tough as the Spurs.

They probably would have taken out the Cavs, unfortunately for them they didn't make it there. Looking back on those teams however, I'm reminded of how absolutely devastating they were on offense. They were a god damn powerhouse. If they played the least bit of defense, the least bit...they would have a title appearance and probably a ring.

[knickswin]

Explains all his success. :lol


This is short memory overeaction at it's finest. He created plenty of points for himself all of last season. He even did it in the playoffs against Kevin Garnett when Carmelo didn't show up for Game 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dokap3rSwkw). Raymond Felton was incredibly inconsistet with the pick and roll. Against single coverage, Amar'e can get his, especially with a stretch four pulling another guy out of the paint. Now, the caveat is, optimally, he needs his jumpshot to fall consistently - which this season it hasn't. He's not as good at iso-ing as Melo, but that's such an overrated part of the game that it doesn't matter.


Yeah, it's working just like that for Carmelo. Creating for yourself automatically = creating for others. :roll:


Other than the rebounding, those are basically Melo's poroblems too. He's an idiot who doesn't play defense. The Knicks really need some brains at point. Come one, Steve. If you come to New York you can still wear orange. :rockon:

you are letting your hatred for Carmelo cloud your judgment. You can't really believe that Amare is better than him. There are legitimate criticisms to be made of Carmelo. I have not been impressed with his chucking at all. But Carmelo's faults don't exonerate Stoudemire.

The only way Amare creates for himself is by facing up. The only time that was effective was when he was on the court with shooters and going against a slower center. It's not like this face up game is all that great. Even last year a lot of times it lead to him turning the ball over or forcing a shot in the paint over too many defenders.

With this game style comes a lot of downside. Inherently, having Stoudemire as your center hurts you on defense. It also hurts you on rebounding especially considering so many guys are standing around the perimeter. Also, face-up games are not dynamic. The only way you can pass is to find a cutter while on the move, and Amar'e is not a strong enough ball handler to be able to do that. We are going to find that it's going to be very hard to develop a dynamic two man game with Stoudemire where he isn't just a finisher.

Stoudemire just isn't a refined player. No back to the basket game is the biggest problem. Like I said, because he doesn't have a back to the basket games, he doesn't demand doubles which means you see the offense completely stagnate or become hot potato on the perimeter when he's on the floor without Carmelo (or Shumpert who can at least penetrate a bit). He is not ambidextrous at all (I NEVER see him finish left). His shot is good (I'll give him the benefit of the doubt this year) but there are a fair amount of big men who can shoot it better (Pau, Bosh, Bargnani, Dirk, Andersen, to name a few).

And yes, Carmelo can create for others. You don't see Amar'e handling the ball in the pick and roll or playing with his back to the basket. Like I said, Carmelo has been chucking this season, and I'm not happy about it, but he does posses the ability to break down a defense.

[Clutch]

People,this is actually a good thing.

It shows us that Melo is hopefully willing to accept less scoring numbers in order to help his team win games.

He played within the system,even though his shot was off he wasn't trying to attempt like 25 shots in order to get some points.
Instead he kept playing right,setting up his teammates and cleaning the defensive boards.

He is playing injured and his shot will start falling soon. His shooting isn't a problem,we all know how good of a scorer Melo is.
Before the injury he averaged 29 points on 46% shooting,he was that good.

I hope this is beginning of his development as a team player. Let's hope he realizes he doesn't need to hold the ball 15 seconds and then shoot and do that 20 times a game.

Just imagine Melo playing within a system with a good point guard. Amare and Tyson get dunks,Melo gets open looks and a few isolations and post ups.

So I don't understand why do you think it's a bad thing.
Is it a bad thing he's shooting bad in the last few games ? Yes,but he's injured and that will change sooner rather than later.

[knickswin]

I just don't know why people think that Amar'e is such a great team player while Carmelo isn't.

I would consider guys like Duncan and Garnett to be great team players, not Amare.

Amar'e is a "team player" in the sense that he does well when the team plays well and plays poorly when the team plays poorly. That's because he needs to get the ball while on the move and while taking in rhythm jumpers to be effective. If you ask him to create for himself, he is much more limited than Carmelo and even more selfish and stupid.

Really, Carmelo needs to make himself more of a ball mover and not take it upon himself to chuck whenever he thinks the team needs points. The difference between him and Amar'e is that Carmelo's problem is his mindset and Amar'e's problem is his ability. Carmelo can create his own shot and play in the post, meaning he can create open looks for his teammates. Amar'e can't.

[Scoooter]

you are letting your hatred for Carmelo cloud your judgment. You can't really believe that Amare is better than him. There are legitimate criticisms to be made of Carmelo. I have not been impressed with his chucking at all. But Carmelo's faults don't exonerate Stoudemire.
I dind't say Amar'e was better than Carmelo. I was laughing at your absurd statement that Carmelo was, "on another level entirely". Lebron is on another level entirely. Larry Bird was. Tim Duncan a decade ago. Shaq.

Melo isn't. This is part of the myth of Carmelo Anthony. He as a versatile scoring game, but with questionable effectiveness. He can shoot and he can go inside. But he needs a lot of shots to score a lot of points, and he's an island out there on the court.


The only way Amare creates for himself is by facing up. The only time that was effective was when he was on the court with shooters and going against a slower center. It's not like this face up game is all that great. Even last year a lot of times it lead to him turning the ball over or forcing a shot in the paint over too many defenders.
Like I said, he's not as good at it as Melo is. But he can do it. We've seen it. :confusedshrug:


With this game style comes a lot of downside. Inherently, having Stoudemire as your center hurts you on defense. It also hurts you on rebounding especially considering so many guys are standing around the perimeter. Also, face-up games are not dynamic. The only way you can pass is to find a cutter while on the move, and Amar'e is not a strong enough ball handler to be able to do that. We are going to find that it's going to be very hard to develop a dynamic two man game with Stoudemire where he isn't just a finisher.

Stoudemire just isn't a refined player. No back to the basket game is the biggest problem. Like I said, because he doesn't have a back to the basket games, he doesn't demand doubles which means you see the offense completely stagnate or become hot potato on the perimeter when he's on the floor without Carmelo (or Shumpert who can at least penetrate a bit). He is not ambidextrous at all (I NEVER see him finish left). His shot is good (I'll give him the benefit of the doubt this year) but there are a fair amount of big men who can shoot it better (Pau, Bosh, Bargnani, Dirk, Andersen, to name a few).
Amar'e gets doubled plenty. Or at leas the did last year. And he's always deaing with a wall of defenders on his way to the basket, and it was worse last year. That's why good PG play is so crucial, and the Knicks have the exact opposite of that. They thought Melo could handle a bit of the paymaking dutiess, but he isn't good enough to recognize those situations. And his mindset is always to shoot it himself.

There are maybe 5-10 guys in the league with a legit back to the basket game. It is kind of lost art. The Knicks don't have a guy. Melo can a little bit, but he's more of a face-up guy too. Redundant skill sets on the Knicks.


And yes, Carmelo can create for others. You don't see Amar'e handling the ball in the pick and roll or playing with his back to the basket. Like I said, Carmelo has been chucking this season, and I'm not happy about it, but he does posses the ability to break down a defense.
We haven't seem Melo do any of that stuff either. Possessing the ability isn't the same as doing it. So far all we've seen is that Melo possesses the ability to break down a defense and take a crappy shot. I bet Luke Ridnour can dunk in practice too. :confusedshrug:

[Scoooter]

I just don't know why people think that Amar'e is such a great team player while Carmelo isn't.

I would consider guys like Duncan and Garnett to be great team players, not Amare.

Amar'e is a "team player" in the sense that he does well when the team plays well and plays poorly when the team plays poorly. That's because he needs to get the ball while on the move and while taking in rhythm jumpers to be effective. If you ask him to create for himself, he is much more limited than Carmelo and even more selfish and stupid.

Really, Carmelo needs to make himself more of a ball mover and not take it upon himself to chuck whenever he thinks the team needs points. The difference between him and Amar'e is that Carmelo's problem is his mindset and Amar'e's problem is his ability. Carmelo can create his own shot and play in the post, meaning he can create open looks for his teammates. Amar'e can't.
None of this passes the eye test. :confusedshrug:

For all this suppoised versatility you're espousing, Melo-ball is killing the Knicks offense. Part of that is the front office thinking he's worth four good players when he isn't. That's not his fault. But Melo's been playing basically the same way for 9 years; if he wants a championship, he's going to have to get better. The problem moving forward is going to be his ego.

[knickswin]

we will just have to wait to see how this season plays out. as of right now i'm not impressed with anyone on the Knicks. maybe they'll right the ship. who knows.

Like I said, I am not thrilled with Carmelo thus far. He has the ability to create good looks for his teammates, but too often he has been chucking up bad shots instead. There's a bit of a chicken or the egg issue going on because a lot of his teammates showed up with very rusty jumpers which has also had a very adverse effect on the offense and spacing. if he consistently approaches the game like he did today, then I am fine with him. understand that amare does not have the ability to do what carmelo did today. there will NEVER be a time where amare can say, "well my shot isn't falling, I will look for my teammates instead." his game does not allow for it. I also think too much of the burden is being put on carmelo right now. He can't be the only player capable of creating on this team. my hope is that baron takes some of the weight off his shoulders.

As for Amar'e, whatever. I don't like his game, and I want him traded to be honest. I think at a certain point we're going to find that he's holding us back. He does NOT have the ability to create for his teammates. It is going to be up to Carmelo and Baron to get him involved on the offense. That's not a max cat to me. A max cat doesn't need his teammates spoon feeding him looks. A max cat is the guy spoon feeding looks to his teammates. And I hate his face-up game. It's lame. It's nearly impossible for his teammates to play off of him when he's facing up. There's never going to be a two man game between him and carmelo, and that's because of amare's limitations, not melo's. If amare had a post up game then carmelo could play off of him, but he doesn't.

[Yung D-Will]

The same thing scouts were questioning about Melo when he was drafted is the exact same thing we're still questioning today.

[Blue&Orange]

in a weird way, this is a statement game from carmelo . . .

No there wasn't..


How hard can it be to say to Melo that his only two options aren't shoot and make a pass for a easy bucket, that he can also pass for ball movement sake. How hard can it be to coach something so basic.
Posted this like 5 days ago.
Melo's problem is that he takes to long to decide what to do, and that genius D'Antoni only make it worse my running the offense through him. What he did against the Bobcats was finally inserting a 3 option on his offense, ball movement.

He quickly shot the ball 7 times, he realized he couldn't be effective and gave up, it's not like from minute one he was passing up shots. He is injured.

[East_Stone_Ya]

damn ish has become so predictable. After Melo finished with one point and i was thinking that for sure someone is going to make thread about and voila today i see thread Carmelo 1 point(0-7), Knicks win by 33 :roll:

[NumberSix]

Amare>Melo
James Harden >>>>>>>> Melo

People need to get it through their think skulls. Melo is NOT a good player. He makes teams worse. They're better off without him.

[Sarcastic]

1 game is a great representation of an entire season. Every NBA plays out exactly the same.

[airchibundo507]

Melo scores 1 point. bobcats shoot 32% from the field, 27% behind the arc, racked up more turnovers (13) than assists (10), and were outrebounded by 20.

Definite correlation.

[RRR3]

You guys want to call Melo the "best scorer in the league", try to place him up there with the LeBrons, the Kobes, the Wades, and the Durants, then you better expect him to get blasted for scoring 1 point. ISH would shut down permanently if LBJ or Kobe had a game like this.

[CelticsDraftee]

Jeremy Lin with 8 points & 4 assists... in under 6 minutes :applause:

[BlackVVaves]

You guys want to call Melo the "best scorer in the league", try to place him up there with the LeBrons, the Kobes, the Wades, and the Durants, then you better expect him to get blasted for scoring 1 point. ISH would shut down permanently if LBJ or Kobe had a game like this.

Good point.

[Sarcastic]

You guys want to call Melo the "best scorer in the league", try to place him up there with the LeBrons, the Kobes, the Wades, and the Durants, then you better expect him to get blasted for scoring 1 point. ISH would shut down permanently if LBJ or Kobe had a game like this.

He's playing injured.

[knickswin]

You guys want to call Melo the "best scorer in the league", try to place him up there with the LeBrons, the Kobes, the Wades, and the Durants, then you better expect him to get blasted for scoring 1 point. ISH would shut down permanently if LBJ or Kobe had a game like this.

okay, we get it. carmelo sucks. can't hold those guys jock straps. amare is better than him.

[Jordan-esque]

Shit, he's killing my fantasy team.
This