24 year old Larry Bird with back 2 back 8 point games in the NBA Finals

[AlphaWolf24]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198105100HOU.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198105090HOU.html

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[DevilsAssassin]

http://001-jk-files.s3.amazonaws.com/images/boxscores/198105100HOU.jpg

is this even legit?

[glidedrxlr22]

Op is a certified and notarized phagg0t.

[alenleomessi]

Game 6

http://001-jk-files.s3.amazonaws.com/images/boxscores/198105140HOU.jpg

[bwink23]

Yeah, and in Kobe's first championship Finals you have this....


GAME ONE.....14 points, Laker's win.
GAME TWO....Kobe plays 9 minutes, scores 2 points...Laker's win anyway.
GAME THREE....Kobe doesn't play, Laker's lose on Indiana's home floor.
GAME FOUR....Kobe 28 points, Laker's win by 2.
GAME FIVE....Laker's get crushed, Kobe scores 8 points on 4 for 20 shooting....
GAME SIX....Lakers win, Kobe scores 26 on a miserable 8 for 27 shooting performance..


Lakers win championship...Despite all the DOODOO Kobe has pooping all over the floor.

[AlphaWolf24]

Yeah, and in Kobe's first championship Finals you have this....


GAME ONE.....14 points, Laker's win.
GAME TWO....Kobe plays 9 minutes, scores 2 points...Laker's win anyway.
GAME THREE....Kobe doesn't play, Laker's lose on Indiana's home floor.
GAME FOUR....Kobe 28 points, Laker's win by 2.
GAME FIVE....Laker's get crushed, Kobe scores 8 points on 4 for 20 shooting....
GAME SIX....Lakers win, Kobe scores 26 on a miserable 8 for 27 shooting performance..


Lakers win championship...Despite all the DOODOO Kobe has pooping all over the floor.


Kobe at 21>Bird at 24...:lol Back 2 Back 8 point games....3rd best player on his team

[Flagrant 2]

Kobe at 21>Bird at 24...:lol Back 2 Back 8 point games....3rd best player on his team
Owned. :applause:

[bwink23]

Kobe at 21>Bird at 24...:lol Back 2 Back 8 point games....3rd best player on his team


kobe 2 points...

Kobe 14 points...

Kobe 15.4ppg on 35.7%FG and STILL win the championship 4-2.


Kobe couldn't have not played at all that year and the Lakers would have beat the Pacers....:pimp:

[Scholar]

Yeah, and in Kobe's first championship Finals you have this....


GAME ONE.....14 points, Laker's win.
GAME TWO....Kobe plays 9 minutes, scores 2 points...Laker's win anyway.
GAME THREE....Kobe doesn't play, Laker's lose on Indiana's home floor.
GAME FOUR....Kobe 28 points, Laker's win by 2.
GAME FIVE....Laker's get crushed, Kobe scores 8 points on 4 for 20 shooting....
GAME SIX....Lakers win, Kobe scores 26 on a miserable 8 for 27 shooting performance..


Lakers win championship...Despite all the DOODOO Kobe has pooping all over the floor.

:roll:

This is how you know Kobe is one of the best, if not THE best. Whenever an entirely different player is being discussed, haters start throwing in Kobe's performances into the discussion, even though the discussion has nothing to do with Kobe Bryant.

[AlphaWolf24]

kobe 2 points...

Kobe 14 points...

Kobe 15.4ppg on 35.7%FG and STILL win the championship 4-2.


Kobe couldn't have not played at all that year and the Lakers would have beat the Pacers....:pimp:


8 point game in the Finals.....followed by another 8 point game.....followed by a 12 point game....Boston wins the NBA Championship...24 year old prime Bird is the 3rd best player maybe 4th best:roll:


at least L.A. passed to Kobe in the 4th quarters...:lol

[bwink23]

:roll:

This is how you know Kobe is one of the best, if not THE best. Whenever an entirely different player is being discussed, haters start throwing in Kobe's performances into the discussion, even though the discussion has nothing to do with Kobe Bryant.



NO SIR....just responding to a blatant Kobetard going on a smear campaign...THANKS FOR PLAYING.

[Jailblazers7]

:roll:

This is how you know Kobe is one of the best, if not THE best. Whenever an entirely different player is being discussed, haters start throwing in Kobe's performances into the discussion, even though the discussion has nothing to do with Kobe Bryant.

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say it has something to do with the OP's avatar.

[HylianNightmare]

this is relevant

[bwink23]

8 point game in the Finals.....followed by another 8 point game.....followed by a 12 point game....Boston wins the NBA Championship...24 year old prime Bird is the 3rd best player maybe 4th best:roll:


at least L.A. passed to Kobe in the 4th quarters...:lol



2 8-point games = 16 points....

2-point game and 14 points = 16 points..

NEXT

[bwink23]

Kobe Bryant in last 2 games of 2000 NBA Finals:


12 for 47, 25.5%FG...............:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[AlphaWolf24]

NO SIR....just responding to a blatant Kobetard going on a smear campaign...THANKS FOR PLAYING.


a great man once said - "Something's wrong with you

This is what some delusional fans do. They type crazy stuff, and if they get called out in it, their brain develops conspiracy theories "

this thread had 0 to do with Kobe.....yet you get all hurt:lol

[Round Mound]

Larry did not shoot well in the 1981 Finals but....

He did Average 15.3 RPG (against Moses), 7.0 APG and 2.3 SPG :bowdown:

[bwink23]

a great man once said - "Something's wrong with you

This is what some delusional fans do. They type crazy stuff, and if they get called out in it, their brain develops conspiracy theories "

this thread had 0 to do with Kobe.....yet you get all hurt:lol


Everything you do is with respect to Kobe....everyone knows that....Since you found it necessary to pick out 2 games of Bird's to light in its own thread...i just found it necessary to bring your hero's shortcomings to light as well.

[AlphaWolf24]

Everything you do is with respect to Kobe....everyone knows that....Since you found it necessary to pick out 2 games of Bird's to light in its own thread...i just found it necessary to bring your hero's shortcomings to light as well.


and I qoute -

"Something's wrong with you

This is what some delusional fans do. They type crazy stuff, and if they get called out in it, their brain develops conspiracy theories "

[Scholar]

I do think this thread is unnecessary because even with that poor performance on Bird's part, he is still a top 5 NBA player of all-time, but for you guys to start throwing Kobe's name in here just because the OP has Kobe in his avy, it makes no sense.
Just discuss one player's performance without hating on another's.

[bwink23]

and I qoute -

"Something's wrong with you

This is what some delusional fans do. They type crazy stuff, and if they get called out in it, their brain develops conspiracy theories "


i read that the first time homer.....it isn't a "theory" when the person in question is the biggest Kobetard on these boards...the probable cause is more than enough to warrant my response.

[AlphaWolf24]

I do think this thread is unnecessary because even with that poor performance on Bird's part, he is still a top 5 NBA player of all-time, but for you guys to start throwing Kobe's name in here just because the OP has Kobe in his avy, it makes no sense.
Just discuss one player's performance without hating on another's.

unnecesary?....we can talk about Lebron playing bad in the Finals.....Jordan playing bad in the Finals....Kobe playing bad in the Finals....but not Bird?...

anyways... I


:applause: U

[bwink23]

I do think this thread is unnecessary because even with that poor performance on Bird's part, he is still a top 5 NBA player of all-time, but for you guys to start throwing Kobe's name in here just because the OP has Kobe in his avy, it makes no sense.
Just discuss one player's performance without hating on another's.



DON'T PLAY DUMB....:hammerhead:

[bwink23]

I do think this thread is unnecessary because even with that poor performance on Bird's part, he is still a top 5 NBA player of all-time, but for you guys to start throwing Kobe's name in here just because the OP has Kobe in his avy, it makes no sense.
Just discuss one player's performance without hating on another's.



AlphaWolf's response in a thread that had nothing to do with Kobe Bryant and all about Larry Bird:


"8 point game in the Finals.....followed by another 8 point game.....followed by a 12 point game....Boston wins the NBA Championship...24 year old prime Bird is the 3rd best player maybe 4th best." ---- ALPHATROLL


NOW WHAT DUDE???

[AlphaWolf24]

i read that the first time homer.....it isn't a "theory" when the person in question is the biggest Kobetard on these boards...the probable cause is more than enough to warrant my response.


http://www.calbuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/tin-foil-hat-conspiracy-theory1.jpg

[AlphaWolf24]

AlphaWolf's response in a thread that had nothing to do with Kobe Bryant and all about Larry Bird:


"8 point game in the Finals.....followed by another 8 point game.....followed by a 12 point game....Boston wins the NBA Championship...24 year old prime Bird is the 3rd best player maybe 4th best." ---- ALPHATROLL


NOW WHAT DUDE???


I was at least talking about Bird:confusedshrug:

[Kblaze8855]

He had 18/21/9 and the biggest shot of the game in game 1

19/21/3 3 steals and 5 blocks in game 2

9/13/10 3 steals and 3 blocks in a 20+ point win in game 3

8/12/7 in game 4 loss

12/12/8 in a 30 point win in game 5

26/13/5/3 and 7 straight points to put the game away after the Rockets got within 3 in the 4th quarter after being down 16 with 10 minutes to go.

It was far from a bad series. Jerry sloan already had second season Bird as the GOAT.

[WillyJakk]

Wow, I didn't even know this.

I think it deserves mentioning simply because the way LeBron pulled a no show and some of the other great players have had less than great performances (some in the Finals) that this is relevant (though Bird has numerous rings/ MVP's to his credit).

Blackberry Playbook

[bwink23]

I was at least talking about Bird:confusedshrug:


:rolleyes: .......Your agenda with this thread doesn't go unnoticed son.

[AlphaWolf24]

He had 18/21/9 and the biggest shot of the game in game 1

19/21/3 3 steals and 5 blocks in game 2

9/13/10 3 steals and 3 blocks in a 20+ point win in game 3

8/12/7 in game 4 loss

12/12/8 in a 30 point win in game 5

26/13/5/3 and 7 straight points to put the game away after the Rockets got within 3 in the 4th quarter after being down 16 with 10 minutes to go.

It was far from a bad series. Jerry sloan already had second season Bird as the GOAT.


huh?...Game 3 he scored 8 points and was the 3rd best player on the team for the 2nd game in a row.

followed up his 8 point games with a 12 point game and the Celtics still won by 30...as yet again he was the 3rd best player on his team.

[AlphaWolf24]

:rolleyes: .......Your agenda with this thread doesn't go unnoticed son.


your tin foil hat isn't working...

[AlphaWolf24]

Wow, I didn't even know this.

I think it deserves mentioning simply because the way LeBron pulled a no show and some of the other great players have had less than great performances (some in the Finals) that this is relevant (though Bird has numerous rings/ MVP's to his credit).

Blackberry Playbook


this

[TheMan]

This thread is about Bird having two sub-par games and it inevitably becomes a Bird vs Kobe thread:wtf:

MJ never had a NBA Finals stinker like Kobe and Larry...

Let me just end it with...



MJ> all

we can all agree on that:lol





/thread

[TheMan]

:roll:

This is how you know Kobe is one of the best, if not THE best. Whenever an entirely different player is being discussed, haters start throwing in Kobe's performances into the discussion, even though the discussion has nothing to do with Kobe Bryant.
He's one of the best of his generation but all time best?ROFL

He ain't even the best Laker, GTFOH

[AlphaWolf24]

SIZE][/B]
He's one of the best of his generation but all time best?ROFL

He ain't even the best Laker, GTFOH

all of the other best Lakers said he was the best Laker....therefore it's 100.

and y'all need to stop talking about Kobe

this about Bird..

[jstern]

:roll:

This is how you know Kobe is one of the best, if not THE best. Whenever an entirely different player is being discussed, haters start throwing in Kobe's performances into the discussion, even though the discussion has nothing to do with Kobe Bryant.

Judging by who the OP is and knowing his agenda full well (putting down other stars to build up Kobe), I say this thread is 100% related to Kobe. 100% despite him not mentioning Kobe in his original thread. Also considering that he only talks about Kobe.

Don't know if anyone mentioned it, but looking at the box score, Bird averaged 15.33 rebounds and 7 assists per game.

[AlphaWolf24]

Judging by who the OP is and knowing his agenda full well (putting down other stars to build up Kobe), I say this thread is 100% related to Kobe. 100% despite him not mentioning Kobe in his original thread. Also considering that he only talks about Kobe.

Don't know if anyone mentioned it, but looking at the box score, Bird averaged 15.33 rebounds and 7 assists per game.


that's silly...I talk about many things basketball related...and many things non basketball related...check the OT room.


and you call me out yet say absolutley nothing about the posters who always slight Kobe in every thread...one posted many times in this thread and you say nothing.....just call me out with conspiracy theories..:lol


what a silly sad lot.















next

[Rekindled]

bird was grabbing boards like a mothafocker in that series

[Deuce Bigalow]

who cares about 1 or 2 games? You can make any player look bad off of that

[Deuce Bigalow]

This thread is about Bird having two sub-par games and it inevitably becomes a Bird vs Kobe thread:wtf:

MJ never had a NBA Finals stinker like Kobe and Larry...

Let me just end it with...



MJ> all

we can all agree on that:lol





/thread
Why are you jordan jockers so ****ing insecure?
we already know jordan is better than kobe:facepalm no need to post it 20 times a day

[Psileas]

On a sidenote, I find it interesting that nobody notices that BBR very recently added boxscores for every single season. It's not as if some thread of this fact exists.

[97 bulls]

Yeah, and in Kobe's first championship Finals you have this....


GAME ONE.....14 points, Laker's win.
GAME TWO....Kobe plays 9 minutes, scores 2 points...Laker's win anyway.
GAME THREE....Kobe doesn't play, Laker's lose on Indiana's home floor.
GAME FOUR....Kobe 28 points, Laker's win by 2.
GAME FIVE....Laker's get crushed, Kobe scores 8 points on 4 for 20 shooting....
GAME SIX....Lakers win, Kobe scores 26 on a miserable 8 for 27 shooting performance..


Lakers win championship...Despite all the DOODOO Kobe has pooping all over the floor.
I'm not the biggest kobe fan, but wasn't he hurt? Why didn't he play in game three?

[Deuce Bigalow]

I'm not the biggest kobe fan, but wasn't he hurt? Why didn't he play in game three?
Yes, ankle injury I believe

[97 bulls]

I think the point of this thread is to show that bird had stinkers too. I've seen almost every all-time greats bad series/games get disected. But for some reason birds is off limits. Why?

[The_Yearning]

He had 18/21/9 and the biggest shot of the game in game 1

19/21/3 3 steals and 5 blocks in game 2

9/13/10 3 steals and 3 blocks in a 20+ point win in game 3

8/12/7 in game 4 loss

12/12/8 in a 30 point win in game 5

26/13/5/3 and 7 straight points to put the game away after the Rockets got within 3 in the 4th quarter after being down 16 with 10 minutes to go.

It was far from a bad series. Jerry sloan already had second season Bird as the GOAT.

That is why he never won a ring, COY, and is out of a job now.

[PTB Fan]

I believe Bird averaged 15/15/5 for the series though. These are his worst games in the Finals, but we can give him an excuse because it was his first year in the Finals.

He made up for this in the 84 Finals, by averaging 27/14/4 en route to a Finals MVP and a title.

[jstern]

Since he's being compared to Kobe, I think it's only fair to say that in that one bad shooting series, he still shot the ball better than Kobe's career Finals FG percentage. And averaged 7 assist per game, and 15 rebounds per game, so I wouldn't really call it a bad series.

[OldSchoolBBall]

He had 13 reb/10 ast/5 stl/2 blk in one of those games and 12 reb/7 ast/2 stl in the second one. At least he does other stuff when he's not scoring.

[Round Mound]

I believe Bird averaged 15/15/5 for the series though. These are his worst games in the Finals, but we can give him an excuse because it was his first year in the Finals.

He made up for this in the 84 Finals, by averaging 27/14/4 en route to a Finals MVP and a title.

15.3 PPG / 15.3 RPG / 7.0 APG / 2.3 SPG

:applause:

[PJR]

He had 13 reb/10 ast/5 stl/2 blk in one of those games and 12 reb/7 ast/2 stl in the second one. At least he does other stuff when he's not scoring.

This is what Lebron got killed for.....:oldlol:

[Owl]

That is why he never won a ring, COY, and is out of a job now.
I thought the reason he never won a ring was because his teams met MJ's Bulls twice in the finals. Never won the coach of the year because his consistant success meant he never had really big one year improvements which become a story and win COY (winners 2006-2009 are Avery Johnson, Sam Mitchell, Byron Scott and Mike Brown). He's out of a job now because he didn't get along with Deron Williams and is 69 (and will be 70 before the regular season ends)

Back to the main topic

People have been accused of "dragging" Kobe into the thread, which is fine, but I'm uncertain as to what the point of the thread was. Selecting small samples to denigrate a legend? To point out that most great players have some bad games, even in the finals (which as a prior poster pointed out makes MJ's finals record all the more impressive)? To note that some players can be effective without scoring (Bird was the series leader in assists http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1981_finals.html )? Given that no indication of what exactly what the point was, then it seems that the point of the post was merely to provoke.

Now if you were going to argue that that Bird's reputation for clutchness in late game situations covered his relatively below par (by his own high standards) performance in finals, you could at least have an argument. But it's hard to claim a topic isn't about someone and then reference that same person in most posts including the sixth post of the thread.

[jlip]

I thought it was common knowledge that Bird only avg. 15ppg in the '81 Finals but dominated the boards. Struggling to score efficiently in some of the games, he sought to challenge Moses Malone's impact on the glass. He outrebounded Malone in 3 of the 6 games having 21 in each of the first two. Bird actually spoke about this very thing in this article (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=fhNPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ngIEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5454,1597446&dq=larry+bird+rebounds+rockets&hl=en). Plus the full box score of each game has been available for years here (http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/finals/1981.htm).

[Duncan21formvp]

8 point game in the Finals.....followed by another 8 point game.....followed by a 12 point game....Boston wins the NBA Championship...24 year old prime Bird is the 3rd best player maybe 4th best:roll:


at least L.A. passed to Kobe in the 4th quarters...:lol

Kobe scored 8 points as well

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200006160IND.html

[REACTION]

bwink32/32days is obsessed with kobe :lol

[pauk]

So what? Bird was human ? No shit :D

[bwink23]

I'm not the biggest kobe fan, but wasn't he hurt? Why didn't he play in game three?



AHH....yes your right, he was hurt...was he hurt for the finals 2 games as well, when he shot 12 for 47....:facepalm

[Big#50]

Bird had one great finals performance. He is still Larry Legend.

[bwink23]

I think the point of this thread is to show that bird had stinkers too. I've seen almost every all-time greats bad series/games get disected. But for some reason birds is off limits. Why?



What exactly did he dissect about those games?? Consider the source.

[Derka]

We have people here so desperate to slurp lovingly at the **** juices of Kobe and Lebron that they'll resort to pointing out when better players had a bad game.

Truly epic.

[AlphaWolf24]

I thought the reason he never won a ring was because his teams met MJ's Bulls twice in the finals. Never won the coach of the year because his consistant success meant he never had really big one year improvements which become a story and win COY (winners 2006-2009 are Avery Johnson, Sam Mitchell, Byron Scott and Mike Brown). He's out of a job now because he didn't get along with Deron Williams and is 69 (and will be 70 before the regular season ends)

Back to the main topic

People have been accused of "dragging" Kobe into the thread, which is fine, but I'm uncertain as to what the point of the thread was. Selecting small samples to denigrate a legend? To point out that most great players have some bad games, even in the finals (which as a prior poster pointed out makes MJ's finals record all the more impressive)? To note that some players can be effective without scoring (Bird was the series leader in assists http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1981_finals.html )? Given that no indication of what exactly what the point was, then it seems that the point of the post was merely to provoke.

Now if you were going to argue that that Bird's reputation for clutchness in late game situations covered his relatively below par (by his own high standards) performance in finals, you could at least have an argument. But it's hard to claim a topic isn't about someone and then reference that same person in most posts including the sixth post of the thread.



really??:facepalm so he lost in the Finals twice to the Bull's.....so who kept him from winning the other 20+ years??


and why are you so discombobulated by a thread about Bird playing bad in the Finals???...

there are 10,000 threads a month about LBJ , Kobe , MJ etc having bad games.....

why can't we talk about Bird??....especially since most people here snap at you for talking about Bird at anything then he was the 2nd GOAT

[32jazz]

really??:facepalm so he lost in the Finals twice to the Bull's.....so who kept him from winning the other 20+ years??


and why are you so discombobulated by a thread about Bird playing bad in the Finals???...

there are 10,000 threads a month about LBJ , Kobe , MJ etc having bad games.....

why can't we talk about Bird??....especially since most people here snap at you for talking about Bird at anything then he was the 2nd GOAT

:applause:

I get tired of the losers here who never really saw Bird/Magic ,etc....play, act as if though these players were perfect:facepalm

Bird and my favorite player (Magic) never had these losers on the internet dissecting every single regular season and playoff game.

Especially the creepily obsessive Kobe haters.

[Cali Syndicate]

8 point game in the Finals.....followed by another 8 point game.....followed by a 12 point game....Boston wins the NBA Championship...24 year old prime Bird is the 3rd best player maybe 4th best:roll:


at least L.A. passed to Kobe in the 4th quarters...:lol

And you came to this, how?

[32Dayz]

Kobe Bryant in last 2 games of 2000 NBA Finals:


12 for 47, 25.5%FG...............:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Kobe was carried in 4/5 Finals.

00, 01 and 02 by Shaq and in 2010 by the great Gasol.

[AlphaWolf24]

And you came to this, how?

by watching the games when I was a kid....and using the boxscore to remember how great Parish ,Tiny and Cornbread played in that series.

[Blue&Orange]

Since he's being compared to Kobe, I think it's only fair to say that in that one bad shooting series, he still shot the ball better than Kobe's career Finals FG percentage. And averaged 7 assist per game, and 15 rebounds per game, so I wouldn't really call it a bad series.

:applause: :applause:


\Close Thread

[Lebron23]

He's still a better Finals Performer than Kobe. Just put posts their Finals stats and FG% in this thread.

[AlphaWolf24]

He's still a better Finals Performer than Kobe. Just put posts their Finals stats and FG% in this thread.


FG%:roll:





go ahead Lebron fan....





and while your at it...post Lebron's final stats so we can compare...:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:





once again...it's about Bird.

[AlphaWolf24]

Kobe was carried in 4/5 Finals.

00, 01 and 02 by Shaq and in 2010 by the great Gasol.
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/369777_1456960650_1039750673_n.jpg





:lol


ok wizard

[bwink23]

by watching the games when I was a kid....and using the boxscore to remember how great Parish ,Tiny and Cornbread played in that series.


ALL LIES.....:no:

[JtotheIzzo]

He had 18/21/9 and the biggest shot of the game in game 1

19/21/3 3 steals and 5 blocks in game 2

9/13/10 3 steals and 3 blocks in a 20+ point win in game 3

8/12/7 in game 4 loss

12/12/8 in a 30 point win in game 5

26/13/5/3 and 7 straight points to put the game away after the Rockets got within 3 in the 4th quarter after being down 16 with 10 minutes to go.

It was far from a bad series. Jerry sloan already had second season Bird as the GOAT.


end thread.


question: why would a Kobe fan start a thread to damage Bird? Also, why would they use a format where there are tombs of evidence showing Kobe's shocking performances in the same scenarios?

When posters say Kobe fans are retarded homers, these are the kind of threads that are fresh in people's minds.

[32Dayz]

end thread.


question: why would a Kobe fan start a thread to damage Bird? Also, why would they use a format where there are tombs of evidence showing Kobe's shocking performances in the same scenarios?

When posters say Kobe fans are retarded homers, these are the kind of threads that are fresh in people's minds.

Because Kobe fans like the OP are stupid and delusional enough to think he is the 2nd best player ever after Jordan.

Mamba isn't even Top 10.

Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Duncan, West.

[raptorfan_dr07]

Bird>>>>>>Kobe

Not even a debate.

[Legends66NBA7]

:roll:

This is how you know Kobe is one of the best, if not THE best. Whenever an entirely different player is being discussed, haters start throwing in Kobe's performances into the discussion, even though the discussion has nothing to do with Kobe Bryant.

+1.

But that's what bwink's going to do every time he comes on here. Bring up Kobe.

[AlphaWolf24]

ALL LIES.....:no:

go away kid...I already forgot more basketball this morning then you will ever know

[Legends66NBA7]

This is what Lebron got killed for.....:oldlol:

But it had no impact on the game... and LeBron's team lost...

[Legends66NBA7]

Bird>>>>>>Kobe

Not even a debate.

Yet it keeps being brought up ?

[Kiddlovesnets]

You are mad 'cause Bird is a top 10 NBA player of all time but Bryant is NOT?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Because Kobe fans like the OP are stupid and delusional enough to think he is the 2nd best player ever after Jordan.

Mamba isn't even Top 10.

Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Duncan, West.

Kobe was carried in 4/5 Finals.

00, 01 and 02 by Shaq and in 2010 by the great Gasol.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/372159_100001444251310_34083476_n.jpg
cool story Bryan

[AlphaWolf24]

:roll: :roll: :roll:
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/372159_100001444251310_34083476_n.jpg
cool story Bryan


faqqit is wearing a Laker shirt at the motel 6....

[Legends66NBA7]

You are mad 'cause Bird is a top 10 NBA player of all time but Bryant is NOT?

The person who brought up Bryant in this thread is a Jordan/Bird fan.

[AlphaWolf24]

You are mad 'cause Bird is a top 10 NBA player of all time but Bryant is NOT?


I played ball with Jason Kidd in highschool....he would tell you Kobe>Bird.









next

[Deuce Bigalow]

You are mad 'cause Bird is a top 10 NBA player of all time but Bryant is NOT?
10 players better than Bryant? shoot for it

[Kiddlovesnets]

I played ball with Jason Kidd in highschool....he would tell you Kobe>Bird.









next

Well then make a phone call to Kidd and ask him, wont you? I remember ISH used to have an official poll(I believe it was L.Kizzle who started this event) that rates top 50 players of all time. The list is shown below:

ISH 100 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time
1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Earvin 'Magic' Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Bill Russell
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Oscar Robertson
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Tim Duncan
11. Jerry West
12. Julius Erving
13. Moses Malone
14. Elgin Baylor
15. Bob Pettit
16. John Havlicek
17. Karl Malone
18. George Mikan
19. David Robinson
20. Isiah Thomas
21. Charles Barkley
22. John Stockton
23. Bob Cousy
24. Kobe Bryant
25. Rick Barry
26. Scottie Pippen
27. Clyde Drexler
28. Gary Payton
29. Willis Reed
30. Patrick Ewing
31. Allen Iverson
32. Walt Frazier
33. Elvin Hayes
34. George Gervin
35. Jason Kidd
36. Dave Cowens
37. Kevin Garnett
38. Bob McAdoo
39. Nate Thurmond
40. Wes Unseld
41. Kevin McHale
42. Dolph Schayes
43. Dominique Wilkins
44. Bill Walton
45. Sam Jones
46. Kevin Johnson
47. Dennis Rodman
48. Dirk Nowitzki
49. Steve Nash
50. Billy Cunningham

Yes it was a poll made years earlier, but I do not see Kobe jumping from No.24 to top 5(considering Bird is at #5 and Shaq is at #7). With two more rings and two FMVPs, Kobe's ranking should be around 11-15, since hes definitely not greater than Duncan. Whether Kobe or Jerry West is better is worth debating though.

[AlphaWolf24]

Well then make a phone call to Kidd and ask him, wont you? I remember ISH used to have an official poll(I believe it was L.Kizzle who started this event) that rates top 50 players of all time. The list is shown below:

ISH 100 Greatest NBA Players of All-Time
1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Earvin 'Magic' Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Bill Russell
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Oscar Robertson
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Tim Duncan
11. Jerry West
12. Julius Erving
13. Moses Malone
14. Elgin Baylor
15. Bob Pettit
16. John Havlicek
17. Karl Malone
18. George Mikan
19. David Robinson
20. Isiah Thomas
21. Charles Barkley
22. John Stockton
23. Bob Cousy
24. Kobe Bryant
25. Rick Barry
26. Scottie Pippen
27. Clyde Drexler
28. Gary Payton
29. Willis Reed
30. Patrick Ewing
31. Allen Iverson
32. Walt Frazier
33. Elvin Hayes
34. George Gervin
35. Jason Kidd
36. Dave Cowens
37. Kevin Garnett
38. Bob McAdoo
39. Nate Thurmond
40. Wes Unseld
41. Kevin McHale
42. Dolph Schayes
43. Dominique Wilkins
44. Bill Walton
45. Sam Jones
46. Kevin Johnson
47. Dennis Rodman
48. Dirk Nowitzki
49. Steve Nash
50. Billy Cunningham

Yes it was a poll made years earlier, but I do not see Kobe jumping from No.24 to top 5(considering Bird is at #5 and Shaq is at #7). With two more rings and two FMVPs, Kobe's ranking should be around 11-15, since hes definitely not greater than Duncan. Whether Kobe or Jerry West is better is worth debating though.


what?...:lol


ISH poll means what?....how many people voted? 50?


Kobe has been voted as the greatest player of his generation by the majority of fans....and a top 5 alltime player..

even the best lakers call him the best Laker ever...


Majority of the basketball community>online site with 30 biased online elitists fans.....



____________________________________

recap...

we here online make up about1% of the basketball community....

I will Gaurantee you if you polled every basketball fan....Kobe would be top 5..IMO top 3

[Kiddlovesnets]

lol I did not vote in the ISH Poll, but I know the members who voted knew exactly what they were doing. Id rather trust them than homers like you.

And btw this is a discussion thread for ISH's official top 100 players, you can yell at their faces but I wouldnt recommend this myself...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57766

[Deuce Bigalow]

lol I did not vote in the ISH Poll, but I know the members who voted knew exactly what they were doing. Id rather trust them than homers like you.

And btw this is a discussion thread for ISH's official top 100 players, you can yell at their faces but I wouldnt recommend this myself...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57766
That was 2007
Here is 2011 http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239784

here is one from another forum http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?t=635088

[AlphaWolf24]

lol I did not vote in the ISH Poll, but I know the members who voted knew exactly what they were doing. Id rather trust them than homers like you.

And btw this is a discussion thread for ISH's official top 100 players, you can yell at their faces but I wouldnt recommend this myself...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57766


they knew exactly what they were doing?....:rolleyes:


Shaq has said Kobe is the best Laker ever...

Jerry West said Kobe is the best Laker ever

Magic said Kobe is the best Laker ever

Horry said Kobe and Hakeem are the best players he ever played with

Salley said Kobe is the best player he ever played with

Majority of fans Voted him best player of the 2000's (wasn't even close)

Barkley said he was a top 5 alltime player

nearly all his peers view him as the premiere player over the past 10 years and the best overall player..


and 30 online elititst fans who have major bias to rank the best player of the 2000's and a top 5 alltime player at #24 and you agree??:rolleyes:


(spits beer and tomato juice wit hot sauce all over screen)..


Kidd would smack you for acting like this

[Kiddlovesnets]

Some are just trying to be nice to Kobe and the current Lakers team, especially this...



Magic said Kobe is the best Laker ever


Even the rational Kobe fans would not rank him over Magic Johnson, the greatest Laker of all time. You cannot judge a player's greatness by what other players say in an unofficial report or random conversation.

[AlphaWolf24]

Some are just trying to be nice to Kobe and the current Lakers team, especially this...



Even the rational Kobe fans would not rank him over Magic Johnson, the greatest Laker of all time. You cannot judge a player's greatness by what other players say in an unofficial report or random conversation.


you are 100% incorrect.....


in fact maybe the best way to judge a players worth is by what his peers think....

in fact..the only reason that the NBA says MJ is the greatest is by acclamation...meaning majority vote.

and yes many people believe Kobe is the best Laker ever...







oh wait...30 online fans said Kobe is 24th:lol .....


_________________________________________

nearly every majority poll I have seen ranks Kobe 5 - 7th alltime

[Kiddlovesnets]

oh wait...30 online fans said Kobe is 24th:lol .....


_________________________________________

nearly every majority poll I have seen ranks Kobe 5 - 7th alltime

Actually some thought Kobe did not even deserve to be ranked at 24th back then, lol.

But yeah, isnt it better if we all act rationally and stop either overrating or underrating Kobe? Your fellow Lakers fan posted a link of ISH's latest Poll, which ranked Kobe at #10(Bird is at #6 btw). Its a little bit higher than what I'd have for Kobe, but reasonable so I have no problem accepting it if its ISH's consensus pick.

[AlphaWolf24]

Actually some thought Kobe did not even deserve to be ranked at 24th back then, lol.

But yeah, isnt it better if we all act rationally and stop either overrating or underrating Kobe? Your fellow Lakers fan posted a link of ISH's latest Poll, which ranked Kobe at #10(Bird is at #6 btw). Its a little bit higher than what I'd have for Kobe, but reasonable so I have no problem accepting it if its ISH's consensus pick.


great!...too bad this place is full of elitists fans with agenda's....Kobe is about 4 - 5 spots too low here (compared to the rest of the world)....but meh:confusedshrug:




haterz gonna hate....
























oh yeah....Jason Kidd says Michael Jordan is the best player he played against......followed closely by....


wait for it...







wait for it....







wait for it....






Kobe Bean Bryant:roll:





even Kidd thinks Kobe is better then nearly everyone except MJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDfGaV6Da_g

[Kiddlovesnets]

great!...too bad this place is full of elitists fans with agenda's....Kobe is about 4 - 5 spots too low here (compared to the rest of the world)....but meh:confusedshrug:




haterz gonna hate....
























oh yeah....Jason Kidd says Michael Jordan is the best player he played against......followed closely by....


wait for it...







wait for it....







wait for it....






Kobe Bean Bryant:roll:





even Kidd thinks Kobe is better then nearly everyone except MJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDfGaV6Da_g

umm wait a sec, Kidd did NOT play against most all-time greats like Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Magic and Bird if I recall?

[AlphaWolf24]

umm wait a sec, Kidd did NOT play against most all-time greats like Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Magic and Bird if I recall?


so..why doesn't his opinion count?



do you really think people here saw Russell ....Chamberlain....Oscar....Kareem play?.....how can they rank players they never even saw play?




heck...most kids here never even saw Magic , Bird or MJ play:roll:


yet they give there crappy biased opinions.....and you think it makes sense??

[Kiddlovesnets]

so..why doesn't his opinion count?



do you really think people here saw Russell ....Chamberlain....Oscar....Kareem play?.....how can they rank players they never even saw play?




heck...most kids here never even saw Magic , Bird or MJ play:roll:


yet they give there crappy biased opinions.....and you think it makes sense??

Well I dont want to repeat myself anymore, the recent ISH poll rated Kobe at #10 so I will take it. I must admit that I had him ranking slightly lower than that, but not really by much.

Guess we will have a better understanding of where Kobe should be ranked among all time great after he retires and we move on to watch new superstars?

[AlphaWolf24]

Well I dont want to repeat myself anymore, the recent ISH poll rated Kobe at #10 so I will take it. I must admit that I had him ranking slightly lower than that, but not really by much.

Guess we will have a better understanding of where Kobe should be ranked among all time great after he retires and we move on to watch new superstars?


ISH poll means about as much as me going to the Barber shop down the street talking to the Blue Hairs and taking a poll...

Bill Russell , Wilt and Kareem would all be top 3...MJ might make top 5 if he's Lucky...


you do realize online fans here (especially the poll people) make up about .22221% of the basketball community...








Kobe = top 5 alltime....deal wit it.
























next

[Kiddlovesnets]

ISH poll means about as much as me going to the Barber shop down the street talking to the Blue Hairs and taking a poll...

Bill Russell , Wilt and Kareem would all be top 3...MJ might make top 5 if he's Lucky...


you do realize online fans here (especially the poll people) make up about .22221% of the basketball community...








Kobe = top 5 alltime....deal wit it.
























next

Well you can also interpret the other way though. ISH has more Lakers fans in percentage(relative to other fans) than in real life, and Kobe is still rated at #10. I guess I am just going to take ISH's consensus pick though since it makes sense to me.

[AlphaWolf24]

Well you can also interpret the other way though. ISH has more Lakers fans in percentage(relative to other fans) than in real life, and Kobe is still rated at #10. I guess I am just going to take ISH's consensus pick though since it makes sense to me.

More Laker fans??....did they vote?

many online fans talk like they are elitists fans that know better then the casual fan....most of it is BS.


funny how you don't think Kobe is top 10...but will go with the "ISH Poll"...that says he's Top 10...so I guess you don't really agree with ISH after all.


















next

[Deuce Bigalow]

ISH poll means about as much as me going to the Barber shop down the street talking to the Blue Hairs and taking a poll...

Bill Russell , Wilt and Kareem would all be top 3...MJ might make top 5 if he's Lucky...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RRRpZE314eQ/TkycUFS24II/AAAAAAAAPrM/z1b0peDvG6Q/s1600/troll+face.jpg

[AlphaWolf24]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RRRpZE314eQ/TkycUFS24II/AAAAAAAAPrM/z1b0peDvG6Q/s1600/troll+face.jpg


go to the chop shop and talk to the ol' blue hairs...


Elgin Baylor ,Wilt,Hawk,Russell and Frazier would destroy Kobe , MJ , Shaq , AI and Duncan....


according to them.

[Meticode]

Troll thread, can't believe all the serious replies.

[Champ]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198105100HOU.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198105090HOU.html

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:


:no:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDk9y0Vul5A

[Da_Realist]

oh yeah....Jason Kidd says Michael Jordan is the best player he played against

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDfGaV6Da_g

And Jason Kidd didn't see 1st threepeat MJ on the court...

[swi7ch]

Still regarded as the best SF of all time so who's laughing now?

[Nash]

:roll:

This is how you know Kobe is one of the best, if not THE best. Whenever an entirely different player is being discussed, haters start throwing in Kobe's performances into the discussion, even though the discussion has nothing to do with Kobe Bryant.
If that makes Kobe the best then what does it make Lebron who's targeted in every thread? The GOAT of all GOAT'S?

[Owl]

I thought the reason he never won a ring was because his teams met MJ's Bulls twice in the finals. Never won the coach of the year because his consistant success meant he never had really big one year improvements which become a story and win COY (winners 2006-2009 are Avery Johnson, Sam Mitchell, Byron Scott and Mike Brown). He's out of a job now because he didn't get along with Deron Williams and is 69 (and will be 70 before the regular season ends)

Back to the main topic

People have been accused of "dragging" Kobe into the thread, which is fine, but I'm uncertain as to what the point of the thread was. Selecting small samples to denigrate a legend? To point out that most great players have some bad games, even in the finals (which as a prior poster pointed out makes MJ's finals record all the more impressive)? To note that some players can be effective without scoring (Bird was the series leader in assists http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1981_finals.html )? Given that no indication of what exactly what the point was, then it seems that the point of the post was merely to provoke.

Now if you were going to argue that that Bird's reputation for clutchness in late game situations covered his relatively below par (by his own high standards) performance in finals, you could at least have an argument. But it's hard to claim a topic isn't about someone and then reference that same person in most posts including the sixth post of the thread.

really??:facepalm so he lost in the Finals twice to the Bull's.....so who kept him from winning the other 20+ years??


and why are you so discombobulated by a thread about Bird playing bad in the Finals???...

there are 10,000 threads a month about LBJ , Kobe , MJ etc having bad games.....

why can't we talk about Bird??....especially since most people here snap at you for talking about Bird at anything then he was the 2nd GOAT

1) His own players. Not having the most talented team is why he didn't win the title. His starting centers were Mark Eaton, Felton Spencer and Greg Ostertag. His starting small forwards were Thurl Bailey, Tyrone Corbin, David Benoit, Chris Morris and Byron Russell. His flex offense is regarded as effective in getting the best out of limited players (e.g. Howard Eisley, Shandon Anderson, Matt Harpring, Ronnie Brewer etc), he's in the Hall of Fame as a coach. As I noted above his consistency .You could argue over his man-management, especially his handling of AK47 but if you want to argue that Sloan wasn't a good coach because he didn't win a title I'm never going to persuade you.

2)I'm not discombobulated. All I said was you've made a deliberately provocative post with posting any context in which it is meant to be discussed. And saying that there are thousands of other bad threads isn't an excuse for starting one of your own.

3) You can talk about Bird, I gave you an opportunity to, suggesting lines of argument you'd could follow. Here's another
-Bird feasted on small forwards who were non-athletic or non-defenders, all offense players or both, players such as Alex English, Adrian Dantley, Kelly Tripucka, Mark Aguirre, Dale Ellis, Xavier McDaniel, Walter Davis, Purvis Short, Dominique Wilkins, Kiki Vandeweghe etc
-Most players numbers fall in playoff because they're playing better teams. But Bird's fall more than most. He had 6 regular seasons with a PER above 24, but only one playoff run. Of course that particular piece of evidence would be cherry picking using some arbitrary numbers but that seems right up your street.

And I don't read every post on here but I'll happily back you up if anyone's getting angry at at Bird being rated 3rd or below GOAT. Of 12 published (book and magazine) GOAT lists (and also the AP player of the century voting) the highest I've ever seen Bird rated is fourth.

[TheMan]

You got to hand it to AlphaWolf, he really pushes hard the Kobe top 3 of all time argument, seems like he really believes it too but you are wrong.Kobe has a good argument for 10-12, but top 3?:lol

Magic is the best Laker ever, he faced and beat better competition than Kobe ever did, who did Kobe and the Lakers beat in the Finals?The 76ers and Pacers are nothing.Magic beat Larry's Celtics, one of the best teams ever, he beat Isaiah's Pistons and Dr. J and Moses Malone's 76ers and to get to the Finals he had to get through Hakeem's Rockets, Stockton and Malone's Jazz and Clyde's Blazers, those are some serious HOFers...

Kobe hasn't beaten that kind of competition, not even close...and even then, Shaq was the man in the first threepeat, to top it all off, Kobe has had too many series were he was just plain awful, I know everyone has had a bad series or two but Kobe has the market cornered among all time greats on bad playoffs series, you know this, don't act dumb.

Kobe Bryant has achieved a lot, he rightfully belongs in the all time greats debate, just not

[TheMan]

Damn iphone:rant

to finish my post...KB belongs in the all time greats list, bit doesn't belong in the elite top 5 spots, not even close.Magic yes, Kobe no.

[KevinNYC]

Larry did not shoot well in the 1981 Finals but....

He did Average 15.3 RPG (against Moses), 7.0 APG and 2.3 SPG :bowdown:

and if you wanted to frame it differently, you could also say

24 year old Larry Bird with back 2 back 20 rebound games in the NBA Finals
24 year old Larry Bird with back 2 back 5 steal games in the NBA Finals

[KevinNYC]

He had 18/21/9 and the biggest shot of the game in game 1

19/21/3 3 steals and 5 blocks in game 2

9/13/10 3 steals and 3 blocks in a 20+ point win in game 3

8/12/7 in game 4 loss

12/12/8 in a 30 point win in game 5

26/13/5/3 and 7 straight points to put the game away after the Rockets got within 3 in the 4th quarter after being down 16 with 10 minutes to go.

It was far from a bad series. Jerry sloan already had second season Bird as the GOAT.
Celtics coach Bill Fitch thought he was the team's MVP and was surprised when he didn't win it. Maxwell shot better, but only averaged two points a game more than Bird, while Bird had large margins in rebounds and assists.

Where do you get your boxscore info? Because when this came up about a year ago, I remembered back to back 5 steal games and I'll try find the link

[32jazz]

and if you wanted to frame it differently, you could also say

24 year old Larry Bird with back 2 back 20 rebound games in the NBA Finals
24 year old Larry Bird with back 2 back 5 steal games in the NBA Finals

Rebounds? :oldlol:

So when Kobe ALONE out rebounded the HOF frontcourt duo of Pierce/Garnett and scored 10 4th quarter points in 2010 NBA Finals (game 7) all most losers can say is 6-24?

So doing whatever it takes to win only applies to Bird and not Kobe?

[ballup]

Troll thread, can't believe all the serious replies.
http://bloggingexperiment.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/mouse-trap.jpg
Just to be more obvious

[KevinNYC]

I thought it was common knowledge that Bird only avg. 15ppg in the '81 Finals but dominated the boards. Struggling to score efficiently in some of the games, he sought to challenge Moses Malone's impact on the glass. He outrebounded Malone in 3 of the 6 games having 21 in each of the first two. Bird actually spoke about this very thing in this article (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=fhNPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ngIEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5454,1597446&dq=larry+bird+rebounds+rockets&hl=en). Plus the full box score of each game has been available for years here (http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/finals/1981.htm).

Yeah, that's the box score I saw with the back to back 5 steal games.

Anyone who looks at boxscores for that series see that Bird had a great series. He shot poorly, otherwise it would have been an amazing series.
Bird also has a strong case for Finals MVP over Maxwell. Especially if you look at the Celtics wins

Game 1 win Bird is the best player on the Celtics with 18-21-9

Game 3 win, Maxwell has 19-10-0, Bird has 8-13-10 and 5 steals. This is about even to me. More importantly the Celtics win by 23 with 6 players in double figures and their defense shut down the Rockets.

Game 5 win Maxwell is the Celtics best player with 28-15-3 to Bird's 12-12-8

Game 6 win Bird is the Celtics best player with 26-13-5 including 16 second half points and 7 straight points in the last five minutes. Maxwell has a nice game as well with 19-5-6.

So of the Celtics wins, Bird was clearly the best player in two of them, Maxwell in one and the last was a tossup.

If you value things other than scoring you can make the argument that Bird had the better series with
15.3p 15.3r 7.0a with 14 steals and 3 blocks

to Maxwell's
17.7p 9.5r 2.8a with 1 steal and 6 blocks

Bird had three games where he shot poorly but he all over the court making plays in all the other aspects of the game that series.

[KevinNYC]

Rebounds? :oldlol:

So when Kobe ALONE out rebounded the HOF frontcourt duo of Pierce/Garnett and scored 10 4th quarter points in 2010 NBA Finals (game 7) all most losers can say is 6-24?

So doing whatever it takes to win only applies to Bird and not Kobe?

Please show me where I have mentioned Kobe because I didn't.

[TheFrozenOne]

Rebounds? :oldlol:

So when Kobe ALONE out rebounded the HOF frontcourt duo of Pierce/Garnett and scored 10 4th quarter points in 2010 NBA Finals (game 7) all most losers can say is 6-24?

So doing whatever it takes to win only applies to Bird and not Kobe?

this

if you say bad things about Bird you get banned, but you can bash Kobe and it's ok.

[Collie]

You got to hand it to AlphaWolf, he really pushes hard the Kobe top 3 of all time argument, seems like he really believes it too but you are wrong.Kobe has a good argument for 10-12, but top 3?:lol

Magic is the best Laker ever, he faced and beat better competition than Kobe ever did, who did Kobe and the Lakers beat in the Finals?The 76ers and Pacers are nothing.Magic beat Larry's Celtics, one of the best teams ever, he beat Isaiah's Pistons and Dr. J and Moses Malone's 76ers and to get to the Finals he had to get through Hakeem's Rockets, Stockton and Malone's Jazz and Clyde's Blazers, those are some serious HOFers...

Kobe hasn't beaten that kind of competition, not even close...and even then, Shaq was the man in the first threepeat, to top it all off, Kobe has had too many series were he was just plain awful, I know everyone has had a bad series or two but Kobe has the market cornered among all time greats on bad playoffs series, you know this, don't act dumb.

Kobe Bryant has achieved a lot, he rightfully belongs in the all time greats debate, just not

he actually doesn't believe it. Just does it to stir things up lol.

[The Iron Fist]

You got to hand it to AlphaWolf, he really pushes hard the Kobe top 3 of all time argument, seems like he really believes it too but you are wrong.Kobe has a good argument for 10-12, but top 3?:lol

Magic is the best Laker ever, he faced and beat better competition than Kobe ever did, who did Kobe and the Lakers beat in the Finals?

Only a couple of teams with DPOY. One team even had the MVP.

In losses, they also faced DPOY winners. So go ahead, keep making up stories. I'll be here to correct you.

Btw, Magic played with the GOAT and other HOFers. So lets not act like he was winning with Mike Smrek and Tony smith as his starters.

[TheFrozenOne]

he actually doesn't believe it. Just does it to stir things up lol.

I can see top 5 but not top 3 yet.

[TheFrozenOne]

Please show me where I have mentioned Kobe because I didn't.


He was talking about after the 10' Finals.
Kobe haters said he played horrible because of 6 - 24, ignoring all the other great aspects of his game 7

but if Bird scores 8 points then everyone says "he was really the best because he rebounded"

[TheFrozenOne]

Yeah, that's the box score I saw with the back to back 5 steal games.

Anyone who looks at boxscores for that series see that Bird had a great series. He shot poorly, otherwise it would have been an amazing series.
Bird also has a strong case for Finals MVP over Maxwell. Especially if you look at the Celtics wins

Game 1 win Bird is the best player on the Celtics with 18-21-9

Game 3 win, Maxwell has 19-10-0, Bird has 8-13-10 and 5 steals. This is about even to me. More importantly the Celtics win by 23 with 6 players in double figures and their defense shut down the Rockets.

Game 5 win Maxwell is the Celtics best player with 28-15-3 to Bird's 12-12-8

Game 6 win Bird is the Celtics best player with 26-13-5 including 16 second half points and 7 straight points in the last five minutes. Maxwell has a nice game as well with 19-5-6.

So of the Celtics wins, Bird was clearly the best player in two of them, Maxwell in one and the last was a tossup.

If you value things other than scoring you can make the argument that Bird had the better series with
15.3p 15.3r 7.0a with 14 steals and 3 blocks

to Maxwell's
17.7p 9.5r 2.8a with 1 steal and 6 blocks

Bird had three games where he shot poorly but he all over the court making plays in all the other aspects of the game that series.


Just curious did you watch the games? Because many people have said Maxwell was the best player of the series, and back to back 8 point games is pretty bad.

[Kblaze8855]

Saying 8 point game doesnt make it actually bad. Its one shot from a triple double in a blowout finals win. nobody would hate on that. Why would he have shot more? Not like he was 4 of 21 or something. Bird has actually bad playoff games. Not a lot. but they exist. These arent worthy of mention really. Could have brought up some of the games vs the Bucks. The 81 finals was nothing to hate on.

[TheFrozenOne]

Saying 8 point game doesnt make it actually bad. Its one shot from a triple double in a blowout finals win. nobody would hate on that. Why would he have shot more? Not like he was 4 of 21 or something. Bird has actually bad playoff games. Not a lot. but they exist. These arent worthy of mention really. Could have brought up some of the games vs the Bucks. The 81 finals was nothing to hate on.


True, but by the criteria here it was a bad game.
I have seen Lebron and Kobe get bashed for months for playing much better series/games.

[32Dayz]

True, but by the criteria here it was a bad game.
I have seen Lebron and Kobe get bashed for months for playing much better series/games.

Its not only that.

Kobe got outplayed severely by Gasol in G7 and in the 4th Q of G7.
Kobe got outplayed severely by Gasol in the 4 LA Wins
(emphasis on the 3 Home wins)

Kobe had to be carried by Gasol in the OKC and Boston series...

Despite the fact that he was good in the 4th Q of G7 he still had an absolutely disgustingly bad game and no that does not make up for it. 6-24 is horrible no matter how you try to twist it.

[TheFrozenOne]

Its not only that.

Kobe got outplayed severely by Gasol in G7 and in the 4th Q of G7.
Kobe got outplayed severely by Gasol in the 4 LA Wins
(emphasis on the 3 Home wins)

Kobe had to be carried by Gasol in the OKC and Boston series...

Despite the fact that he was good in the 4th Q of G7 he still had an absolutely disgustingly bad game and no that does not make up for it. 6-24 is horrible no matter how you try to twist it.


I understand, all I was saying was much like you said, If Bird did this today he would get bashed much like Kobe and Lebron.

[32Dayz]

I understand, all I was saying was much like you said, If Bird did this today he would get bashed much like Kobe and Lebron.

Yea he would.

Lebron got bashed hard for his Finals performance last year by everyone including me.
When you play bad that's what happens.

Bird would get dissed today like Kobe did if he played that poorly.

[Da_Realist]

About Kobe -- It wasn't the 6-24, it was how he got the 6-24. It was obvious he was trying to be the hero and it almost cost his team.

There's a difference between shooting poorly because the shot won't go in and shooting poorly because you're forcing shots. I saw the 81 Finals (I have all 6 games) and Bird didn't have that problem. He just didn't shoot as well as he normally did. Plus he did just about everything else right.

[Da_Realist]

As to why Bird seems to be untouchable...

Because he was always about the team. He didn't "try" to win MVP. He didn't "try" to score a certain amount of points. He didn't need to take the glory shots. He only wanted to win. So that's what we judge him on.

Jordan wanted you to know he was the man so we started looking at his games through that prism. It wasn't enough that his team won, we needed to see him dominate. That's a heavy burden to wear, but he wore it. Most superstars after him fit that mold and have to wear that crown too. So...if they win, they get the glory, but if they lose they get the blame. Kobe takes it even further so fans look at his game through that same prism. When he scores 40+ three games in a row, he's near GOAT. When he gets swept averaging 17 points on 40% shooting, he's overrated. That's just the way it is.

Bird didn't need the adulation when he played well so he wasn't heavily scrutinized when he shot or played poorly.

[KevinNYC]

He was talking about after the 10' Finals.
Kobe haters said he played horrible because of 6 - 24, ignoring all the other great aspects of his game 7

but if Bird scores 8 points then everyone says "he was really the best because he rebounded"

Then he should argue with someone else, because he is responding to something I never said and putting words in my mouth. Stupid words. ISH level stupid. As stupid as the OP trying to argue that Bird was the 3rd or 4th best player on the 1981 Celtics in the finals. It's a ludicrous argument based on cherry picking stats. It's made more ludicrous by referring to pictures of a woefully incomplete boxscore.

The OP probably didn't know anything else about 1981 playoffs or the finals or that what Larry Bird did in 1981 hasn't been matched in 30 years.

Do you know how rare having 15 rpg and 7 apg is in the NBA Finals?
Do you know how many people have done it since Bird?

Zero.

The closest was Barkley in 1995. He had 13.0 5.5

Do you know how many times someone has averaged more than 15 rpg in the NBA Finals since 1980?

Here's the entire list.

Moses 18.0 1983
Duncan 17.0 2003
Shaq 16.7 2000,
Moses 16.3 1981
Shaq 15.8 2001
Bird 15.3 1981
Dwight 15.2 2009

I don't have access to boxscores from the 60's but my guess would be the only other possible player to average 15 rpg and 7 apg in the Finals would be Wilt.

So don't be stupid, and certainly don't be ISH-level stupid.

[TheFrozenOne]

As to why Bird seems to be untouchable...

Because he was always about the team. He didn't "try" to win MVP. He didn't "try" to score a certain amount of points. He didn't need to take the glory shots. He only wanted to win. So that's what we judge him on.

Jordan wanted you to know he was the man so we started looking at his games through that prism. It wasn't enough that his team won, we needed to see him dominate. That's a heavy burden to wear, but he wore it. Most superstars after him fit that mold and have to wear that crown too. So...if they win, they get the glory, but if they lose they get the blame. Kobe takes it even further so fans look at his game through that same prism. When he scores 40+ three games in a row, he's near GOAT. When he gets swept averaging 17 points on 40% shooting, he's overrated. That's just the way it is.

Bird didn't need the adulation when he played well so he wasn't heavily scrutinized when he shot or played poorly.


I think this is a very poor example, because both Jordan and Kobe won more then Bird and were both better offensive players and defensive players.

Every star gets bashed these days when they have a bad game, saying Bird would not or does not because he wants to win despite not winning as much does not sound credible at all.

[TheFrozenOne]

Then he should argue with someone else, because he is responding to something I never said and putting words in my mouth. Stupid words. ISH level stupid. As stupid as the OP trying to argue that Bird was the 3rd or 4th best player on the 1981 Celtics in the finals. It's a ludicrous argument based on cherry picking stats. It's made more ludicrous by referring to pictures of a woefully incomplete boxscore.

The OP probably didn't know anything else about 1981 playoffs or the finals or that what Larry Bird did in 1981 hasn't been matched in 30 years.

Do you know how rare having 15 rpg and 7 apg is in the NBA Finals?
Do you know how many people have done it since Bird?

Zero.

The closest was Barkley in 1995. He had 13.0 5.5

Do you know how many times someone has averaged more than 15 rpg in the NBA Finals since 1980?

Here's the entire list.

Moses 18.0 1983
Duncan 17.0 2003
Shaq 16.7 2000,
Moses 16.3 1981
Shaq 15.8 2001
Bird 15.3 1981
Dwight 15.2 2009

I don't have access to boxscores from the 60's but my guess would be the only other possible player to average 15 rpg and 7 apg in the Finals would be Wilt.

So don't be stupid, and certainly don't be ISH-level stupid.

Well you call me stupid?
then you yourself cherry pick stats to say Bird played great?

Just seems like a double standard, like Bird is off limits to say he played bad.

all I ever said was he would most likely get bashed just as Lebron gets bashed daily for his Finals.:confusedshrug:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Its not only that.

Kobe got outplayed severely by Gasol in G7 and in the 4th Q of G7.
Kobe got outplayed severely by Gasol in the 4 LA Wins
(emphasis on the 3 Home wins)

Kobe had to be carried by Gasol in the OKC and Boston series...

Despite the fact that he was good in the 4th Q of G7 he still had an absolutely disgustingly bad game and no that does not make up for it. 6-24 is horrible no matter how you try to twist it.
:roll:

[Big#50]

I can see top 5 but not top 3 yet.
Gtfo

[97 bulls]

Well you call me stupid?
then you yourself cherry pick stats to say Bird played great?

Just seems like a double standard, like Bird is off limits to say he played bad.

all I ever said was he would most likely get bashed just as Lebron gets bashed daily for his Finals.:confusedshrug:
Its definately a double standard. I can't understand why he gets a pass. I also can't understand why he get sooooo much credit for three years.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Gtfo
better than duncan :D

[32Dayz]

better than duncan :D

Who? Kobe? Not even close.

#4.
Duncan : Post Season - PER
Peak : 28.4
Top 5 : 26.96
Top 7 : 27.49
Top 10 : 26.67
Top 13 : 25.4

------------------------------------------------------------

#15.
Kobe : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.8
Top 5 : 24
Top 7 : 23
Top 10 : 22.98
Top 13 : 21.62

[Deuce Bigalow]

Who? Kobe? Not even close.

#4.
Duncan : Post Season - PER
Peak : 28.4
Top 5 : 26.96
Top 7 : 27.49
Top 10 : 26.67
Top 13 : 25.4

------------------------------------------------------------

#15.
Kobe : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.8
Top 5 : 24
Top 7 : 23
Top 10 : 22.98
Top 13 : 21.62
:lol as if those stats mean anything
Kobe has better Playoff PER runs than Magic and Larry, was he better than them?

[32Dayz]

:lol as if those stats mean anything
Kobe has better Playoff PER runs than Magic, was he better than him?

No he doesn't and no he is not.

:facepalm

Magic Johnson : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.2
Top 5 : 24.62
Top 7 : 24.03

------------------------------------------------------------


Kobe : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.8
Top 5 : 24
Top 7 : 23

[jlip]

Just curious did you watch the games? Because many people have said Maxwell was the best player of the series, and back to back 8 point games is pretty bad.

Looking at just the box scores, Maxwell had
10 pts on 4-12 shooting in game 1
6 pts on 3-8 shooting in game 2

Considering the fact that in those games Maxwell didn't have nearly the all around impact with rebounds, assists, and steals that Bird had, I would have to conclude that his "bad" games were worse than Bird's "bad" games.

[KevinNYC]

Just curious did you watch the games? Because many people have said Maxwell was the best player of the series,
I believe I watch all the games that year. I was 11 at the time and a Celtics since 1978 when I got interested in basketball and my dad told me about Dave Cowens who was his favorite. So I was Celtic fan in NYC from the year before they got Bird. I definitely followed the series in the papers in and in Sports Illustrated. I remember the ECF against the Sixers better because that series was a war and with the Rockets beating the Lakers, it was assumed the winner of that series would be the NBA champion.

Bird had a great series, he just didn't shoot well in a couple of games and he was more important in the Celtics wins and was fantastic in the closer. If you're a fan of the all around game, you definitely noticed Bird.

Here's what Sports Illustrated wrote (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1124491/1/index.htm) at the time. In it Bill Fitch was surprised Bird didn't win Finals MVP.


Because many people have said Maxwell was the best player of the series, and back to back 8 point games is pretty bad.
Of course that's based on cherry picking a sliver of data. You could also frame it as Bird had back to back 20 rebound games or Bird had back to back 5 steal games.


I don't think it was a travesty or anything that Maxwell got the MVP, he scored well and was great on the offensive glass. However, his first two games were 10 points and 6 points (or exactly what Bird scored in his two lowest games.) And the 6 point game was in a game where Houston only won by 2. When all was said and done they ended up with

FG% PTS TRB AST STL BLK
Cedric Maxwell 0.568 17.7 9.5 2.8 0.2 1
Larry Bird 0.419 15.3 15.3 7 2.3 0.5

So Maxwell had about one basket more per game scoring, a slight edge in blocks and the only thing he was clearly better than Bird was FG%, while Bird was clearly better in rebounds, assists and steals. Looking at the numbers, I think Bird's series was better and given the fact, that no one has had 15-15-7 Finals since then, I think that's the correct call. You might prefer Maxwell.

I think the reason he didn't get the MVP was more expectations. Bird was expected to shoot better. Maxwell might not have been expected to play as well as he did. After getting 16 points in the first two games, Maxwell had three big scoring games in a row where he was the Celtics leading scorer. One of those they lost and the other two were Celtic blowouts led by their defense and balanced scoring (6 players in double figures in one and 5 in the other)

Also NBA writers in 1981 were as prone to evaluate most points = best as anyone on this board is. Remember they didn't talk about triple double much back then. Somebody working in PR for the Lakers invented that term to talk about Magic's production and how unusual he was even if he wasn't the high scorer on the team. They had to convince people to start noticing that.

[KevinNYC]

Well you call me stupid?
then you yourself cherry pick stats to say Bird played great?

Just seems like a double standard, like Bird is off limits to say he played bad.

all I ever said was he would most likely get bashed just as Lebron gets bashed daily for his Finals.:confusedshrug:

It's stupid to say that Bird played bad in 1981 NBA Finals. That's what is stupid. Because he didn't and as I showed, he achieved something no one else since then has achieved.

You want to criticize Bird, pick a series where he actually played bad. I didn't cherry pick stats I gave you the average for the series in two categories, two categories completely ignored by the OP. The OP was cherry picking because he picked his two worst games. I am not cherry-picking because I gave you his average for the series. If you don't understand why that is not cherry-picking, let's not talk further.

And if you reread my post you see that the stupid wasn't directed at you. Though I think you might be agreeing with the stupid.

[Deuce Bigalow]

No he doesn't and no he is not.

:facepalm

Magic Johnson : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.2
Top 5 : 24.62
Top 7 : 24.03

------------------------------------------------------------


Kobe : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.8
Top 5 : 24
Top 7 : 23
Kobe's Playoff PER is better than Magic's and Larry's :lol

[TheFrozenOne]

It's stupid to say that Bird played bad in 1981 NBA Finals. That's what is stupid. Because he didn't and as I showed, he achieved something no one else since then has achieved.

You want to criticize Bird, pick a series where he actually played bad. I didn't cherry pick stats I gave you the average for the series in two categories, two categories completely ignored by the OP. The OP was cherry picking because he picked his two worst games. I am not cherry-picking because I gave you his average for the series. If you don't understand why that is not cherry-picking, let's not talk further.

And if you reread my post you see that the stupid wasn't directed at you. Though I think you might be agreeing with the stupid.


You totally missed my point.

Lebron James did not play bad in the Finals nor did Kobe. But using the criteria here as proven through the past Bird would have been bashed for playing like that.

Bird may have played great and done many good things other then score, I am simply saying that by today's criteria here he would have been bashed like Lebron , Kobe or Dirk or any star player who only managed to score 8 points.

Lebron had better Finals then Bird and gets bashed daily, I think Bird get's a free pass for playing even worse then players today who get bashed daily.

that is all.

[KevinNYC]

Bird didn't need the adulation when he played well so he wasn't heavily scrutinized when he shot or played poorly.

Just a minute after I read this, I looked at the other Sports Illustrated article from that series--talking about this famous play. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7feeHL0oaws)

[QUOTE]Two of those points came after Bird followed his own missed 18-foot shot from the right wing, grabbed the rebound as it bounced high off the rim, shifted the ball from his right hand to his left in midair and flipped it in before he went sprawling beyond the baseline. The other players on the premises

[jlauber]

Kobe's Playoff PER is better than Magic's and Larry's :lol

I'll take Magic's play in his nine Finals over Kobe's play in his seven.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I'll take Magic's play in his five Finals over Kobe's play in his five.
Magic is better, I was just having fun using PER :lol
According to PER, Kobe's '09 Finals is better than any of Magic's, Kareem's, Bird's, Hakeem's, Dr. J's best Finals performance

[KevinNYC]

You totally missed my point.

Lebron James did not play bad in the Finals nor did Kobe. But using the criteria here as proven through the past Bird would have been bashed for playing like that.

Bird may have played great and done many good things other then score, I am simply saying that by today's criteria here he would have been bashed like Lebron , Kobe or Dirk or any star player who only managed to score 8 points.

Lebron had better Finals then Bird and gets bashed daily, I think Bird get's a free pass for playing even worse then players today who get bashed daily.

that is all.

Yes, but the bashing is stupid. And it's usually not done by folks old enough to watch Bird play. Why perpetuate it? Why continue it?

[TheFrozenOne]

Yes, but the bashing is stupid. And it's usually not done by folks old enough to watch Bird play. Why perpetuate it? Why continue it?


Continue what?

Saying Bird would get talked about like Lebron or Kobe for having having to 8 point games is just putting many perspectives into light.

maybe showing that Bird who is off limits here apparently, had similar of not worse games would stop the continuous bashing.

[Da_Realist]

You totally missed my point.

Lebron James did not play bad in the Finals nor did Kobe. But using the criteria here as proven through the past Bird would have been bashed for playing like that.

Bird may have played great and done many good things other then score, I am simply saying that by today's criteria here he would have been bashed like Lebron , Kobe or Dirk or any star player who only managed to score 8 points.

Lebron had better Finals then Bird and gets bashed daily, I think Bird get's a free pass for playing even worse then players today who get bashed daily.

that is all.

Again, it's the "how". Lebron gets bashed because of his hubris then he played lost and scared when his team needed him the most.

Bird didn't have a "look at me" special on ESPN. He didn't brag about winning not one, not two, not three, etc...championships. And even more-so, he didn't ever play lost or scared. Whether he scored 8 points or not is irrelevant.

[TheFan]

better question.
would have Boston or LA made it to the finals without Bird or Kobe respectively?

[bwink23]

You totally missed my point.

Lebron James did not play bad in the Finals nor did Kobe. But using the criteria here as proven through the past Bird would have been bashed for playing like that.

Bird may have played great and done many good things other then score, I am simply saying that by today's criteria here he would have been bashed like Lebron , Kobe or Dirk or any star player who only managed to score 8 points.

Lebron had better Finals then Bird and gets bashed daily, I think Bird get's a free pass for playing even worse then players today who get bashed daily.

that is all.


When did Lebon grab 2 20-rebound games in the Finals?? :rolleyes:

Didn't the Celtics WIN?? So no, he wouldn't get "bashed" similar to a Lebron or Wade cuz they actually won the whole thing. :hammerhead:

[TheFrozenOne]

When did Lebon grab 2 20-rebound games in the Finals?? :rolleyes:

Didn't the Celtics WIN?? So no, he wouldn't get "bashed" similar to a Lebron or Wade cuz they actually won the whole thing. :hammerhead:


sure he would....If Dirk played that bad in the Finals despite winning with someone else getting MVP he would get bashed....as would Larry.

back 2 back 8 point games followed by a 12 point game while being outplayed by a mediocre teammate.

how is that so hard to understand?

[Nick Young]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198105100HOU.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198105090HOU.html

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
:roll:
and people say he's better than Kobe:roll: :roll: :roll:
Larry Legend? If he's a legend is Kobe a deity?

[PTB Fan]

Magic is better, I was just having fun using PER :lol
According to PER, Kobe's '09 Finals is better than any of Magic's, Kareem's, Bird's, Hakeem's, Dr. J's best Finals performance

Gotta use that PER...

:lol

[Leviathon1121]

:roll:
and people say he's better than Kobe:roll: :roll: :roll:
Larry Legend? If he's a legend is Kobe a deity?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm2XO28YRYU. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[AirTupac]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm2XO28YRYU. :roll: :roll: :roll:

As if Kobe was guarding him the entire game... idiot

[Leviathon1121]

As if Kobe was guarding him the entire game... idiot

Sorry, we are using singular games to prove useless points in this thread. Or did you simply not read the op or the following pages? :rolleyes:

[TheFrozenOne]

better question.
would have Boston or LA made it to the finals without Bird or Kobe respectively?


nope.

[pauk]

*bump*

Thanks for the info guys...

Does anybody maybe know where i can watch one of those Rockets-Celtics NBA Finals games? Torrent maybe? Cant find anything on Youtube except this:

1980-81 Boston Celtics: The Dynasty Renewed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck1z4FVWsJg

better than nothing

[DMAVS41]

Saying 8 point game doesnt make it actually bad. Its one shot from a triple double in a blowout finals win. nobody would hate on that. Why would he have shot more? Not like he was 4 of 21 or something. Bird has actually bad playoff games. Not a lot. but they exist. These arent worthy of mention really. Could have brought up some of the games vs the Bucks. The 81 finals was nothing to hate on.


Meh. Depends on the definition of "hate"....

Today? It absolutely would be. If a Lebron, Durant, Kobe, Dirk...etc. did that in the NBA finals....people would absolutely rail on them for a long time.

Bird did not play awful in 81, but he also didn't play great. I'd actually argue that his stats were better than his true impact. Comparing it to Lebron's performance last year in the finals is silly. Bird was far better and anyone that saw both would agree.

However, Maxwell was pretty clearly the finals MVP in my opinion and Bird had an ok series at best. He did enough to help his team win...and that always counts for something, but he didn't play great.

And if that happened today...it would get a lot of "hate"...no doubt about it.

And it does bring up a point about Bird or any player that played pre 1990 really. They get a pass for a lot of their transgressions over their careers. Bird lost a lot as the favorite with HCA throughout his career in the playoffs. Just a fact.

People, especially those that didn't get a chance to see them all play, tend to put players that played years ago on a pedestal and act like they could do no wrong. While Bird was definitely one of the best players of all time, he was far from perfect, and would be thought of a little differently if he played in the era of constant examination of today.

[Kblaze8855]

[/b]

Meh. Depends on the definition of "hate"....

Today? It absolutely would be. If a Lebron, Durant, Kobe, Dirk...etc. did that in the NBA finals....people would absolutely rail on them for a long time.

Of course they would. People cant wait to hate. Especially on the internet where you can act an ass without fear.

[DMAVS41]

Of course they would. People cant wait to hate. Especially on the internet where you can act an ass without fear.

Yep. Exactly.

Which is why picking on the few negative things these great players do over the course of their careers is the absolute wrong way to go about debating where a player should rank.

I'm guilty of it as well. Its almost as if we should just throw out the two worst playoff series of a career and then compare them. Because using an aberration as evidence of the worth of a player just seems flawed.

[pauk]

[/B]

Meh. Depends on the definition of "hate"....

Today? It absolutely would be. If a Lebron, Durant, Kobe, Dirk...etc. did that in the NBA finals....people would absolutely rail on them for a long time.

Bird did not play awful in 81, but he also didn't play great. I'd actually argue that his stats were better than his true impact. Comparing it to Lebron's performance last year in the finals is silly. Bird was far better and anyone that saw both would agree.

However, Maxwell was pretty clearly the finals MVP in my opinion and Bird had an ok series at best. He did enough to help his team win...and that always counts for something, but he didn't play great.

And if that happened today...it would get a lot of "hate"...no doubt about it.

And it does bring up a point about Bird or any player that played pre 1990 really. They get a pass for a lot of their transgressions over their careers. Bird lost a lot as the favorite with HCA throughout his career in the playoffs. Just a fact.

People, especially those that didn't get a chance to see them all play, tend to put players that played years ago on a pedestal and act like they could do no wrong. While Bird was definitely one of the best players of all time, he was far from perfect, and would be thought of a little differently if he played in the era of constant examination of today.

Well said :applause:

[jlip]

I thought it was common knowledge that Bird only avg. 15ppg in the '81 Finals but dominated the boards. Struggling to score efficiently in some of the games, he sought to challenge Moses Malone's impact on the glass. He outrebounded Malone in 3 of the 6 games having 21 in each of the first two. Bird actually spoke about this very thing in this article (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=fhNPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ngIEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5454,1597446&dq=larry+bird+rebounds+rockets&hl=en). Plus the full box score of each game has been available for years here (http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/finals/1981.htm).


Regarding two 8 point games by Bird supposedly justifying Maxwell as MVP, how do we ignore Maxwell's performances mentioned in this post?


Looking at just the box scores, Maxwell had
10 pts on 4-12 shooting in game 1
6 pts on 3-8 shooting in game 2

Considering the fact that in those games Maxwell didn't have nearly the all around impact with rebounds, assists, and steals that Bird had, I would have to conclude that his "bad" games were worse than Bird's "bad" games.

[chips93]

Of course they would. People cant wait to hate. Especially on the internet where you can act an ass without fear.

why did you lock that other thread instead of just deleting it?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260309

[D-Wade316]

:roll:
and people say he's better than Kobe:roll: :roll: :roll:
Larry Legend? If he's a legend is Kobe a deity?
:applause: