Dwight Howard cant ever be considered better than Kobe, Rose or Lebron.

[nathanjizzle]

This guy isnt a real leader. All he is is a definite piece to a championship team...and every championship team needs a real leader like kobe rose lebron ect. The way he puts his teammates on blast...and how they dont even give a fuc about winning shows his leadership skills. Which is why he should never be considered greater then these guys.

[32Dayz]

I'd take Dwight over Kobe.

Kobe is old.

[francesco totti]

Personally think if u pair him with another superstar, u have championship team. Howard - wade or howard - kobe or howard - lebron ( scary as hell) gets a ring I think.


He needs another class A star besides him.

[hawksdogsbraves]

He's not a great leader but come on, he's carried a team to the finals and has had to put up with shit supporting casts his whole career. It's not like Derrick Rose is some great leader either, I mean hell the guy can barely talk.

Honestly I'm kind of sick of hearing about how Dwight is quitting on the Magic. The guy had 28/16 last night, and no one else on the team had over 10 points. What part of that says that Dwight is quitting on the team? If anything it seems like they're quitting on him.

Who is the second best player on that team? Ryan Anderson? Dwight's never even had an all-star caliber player playing alongside him, how can you expect him to rack up the championships?

[RRR3]

I'd take Dwight over everyone in the NBA not named LeBron James.

[yeaaaman]

He's not a great leader but come on, he's carried a team to the finals and has had to put up with shit supporting casts his whole career. It's not like Derrick Rose is some great leader either, I mean hell the guy can barely talk.

Honestly I'm kind of sick of hearing about how Dwight is quitting on the Magic. The guy had 28/16 last night, and no one else on the team had over 10 points. What part of that says that Dwight is quitting on the team? If anything it seems like they're quitting on him.

Who is the second best player on that team? Ryan Anderson? Dwight's never even had an all-star caliber player playing alongside him, how can you expect him to rack up the championships?

This

[rodman91]

Howard is overrated.

[Jameerthefear]

He's not a great leader but come on, he's carried a team to the finals and has had to put up with shit supporting casts his whole career. It's not like Derrick Rose is some great leader either, I mean hell the guy can barely talk.

Honestly I'm kind of sick of hearing about how Dwight is quitting on the Magic. The guy had 28/16 last night, and no one else on the team had over 10 points. What part of that says that Dwight is quitting on the team? If anything it seems like they're quitting on him.

Who is the second best player on that team? Ryan Anderson? Dwight's never even had an all-star caliber player playing alongside him, how can you expect him to rack up the championships?
This.
I'm always tired of people questioning Dwight's leadership. Someone needs to call this team out and he did. We need to be fired up.

[Duncan21formvp]

I'd take Dwight over everyone in the NBA not named LeBron James.
Disagree. I'd take Rose and Durant over anyone in the league and Wade as well. Simply because those guys haven't asked out from their franchises. If you are starting a team you want guys who would stay with your franchise, not whine about leaving.

[Owl]

He's not a great leader but come on, he's carried a team to the finals and has had to put up with shit supporting casts his whole career. It's not like Derrick Rose is some great leader either, I mean hell the guy can barely talk.

Honestly I'm kind of sick of hearing about how Dwight is quitting on the Magic. The guy had 28/16 last night, and no one else on the team had over 10 points. What part of that says that Dwight is quitting on the team? If anything it seems like they're quitting on him.

Who is the second best player on that team? Ryan Anderson? Dwight's never even had an all-star caliber player playing alongside him, how can you expect him to rack up the championships?
This

I'd take Dwight over everyone in the NBA not named LeBron James.
And this.

[hitmanyr2k]

He's not a great leader but come on, he's carried a team to the finals and has had to put up with shit supporting casts his whole career. It's not like Derrick Rose is some great leader either, I mean hell the guy can barely talk.

Honestly I'm kind of sick of hearing about how Dwight is quitting on the Magic. The guy had 28/16 last night, and no one else on the team had over 10 points. What part of that says that Dwight is quitting on the team? If anything it seems like they're quitting on him.

Who is the second best player on that team? Ryan Anderson? Dwight's never even had an all-star caliber player playing alongside him, how can you expect him to rack up the championships?

Howard didn't carry shit to the Finals. He had one great series against the Cavs but the rest of the time he was just as inconsistent as the rest of his teammates. Even when Howard pulled no-shows on offense or was in constant foul trouble they were still finding way to win playoff games. Hell, I even remember the Magic closing the series against Philly without him.

[Owl]

Disagree. I'd take Rose and Durant over anyone in the league and Wade as well. Simply because those guys haven't asked out from their franchises. If you are starting a team you want guys who would stay with your franchise, not whine about leaving.
Loyalty does have a value. But you're ignoring circumstances, the first two are still only on their second contracts (where you essentially have to stick with your team or pass up a lot of money). And lets not act like Wade wasn't majorly flirting with Chicago, he's there because thats where the big 3 was most convenient, that's all.

And to be fair it's not like Bron and D12 didn't give their teams a chance to build them a contender, it's not like they didn't drag scrubs to the finals.

[I.R.Beast]

He's not a great leader but come on, he's carried a team to the finals and has had to put up with shit supporting casts his whole career. It's not like Derrick Rose is some great leader either, I mean hell the guy can barely talk.

Honestly I'm kind of sick of hearing about how Dwight is quitting on the Magic. The guy had 28/16 last night, and no one else on the team had over 10 points. What part of that says that Dwight is quitting on the team? If anything it seems like they're quitting on him.

Who is the second best player on that team? Ryan Anderson? Dwight's never even had an all-star caliber player playing alongside him, how can you expect him to rack up the championships?

excuses...his team is not bad....Ryan anderson is havin a very good year....He's too inconsistent and is not a good leader. He's flat out overrated.

[StateOfMind12]

Howard was arguably the best player in the league last season but this season he isn't better than any of the there players the OP listed and Durant as well.

[ShaqAttack3234]

:oldlol: at the OP putting Rose on a different level than Dwight. What has Rose done to separate himself? He's led his team to the conference finals once, Dwight has done that twice and gotten farther than Rose has.

Nevermind the fact that Dwight is a flat out better player than Rose.

Dwight and Kobe are close. I'd still take Dwight, though, and I'd definitely take Howard over Kobe last season. But in case everyone's forgotten, the Lakers have a similar record to Orlando, and lost to them. Prime Kobe was obviously better than Dwight, though.


I'd take Dwight over everyone in the NBA not named LeBron James.

Agreed. Lebron is still the best in the league, imo, and by a wider margin this season than last, but Dwight is second.

I think Wade has been overlooked too much, though. He looked great again last night, he was just banged up for a while, but definitely not washed up. He's still right up there.


excuses...his team is not bad....Ryan anderson is havin a very good year....He's too inconsistent and is not a good leader. He's flat out overrated.

Anderson, as well as his other 2 teammates(Turk and Redick) who have good seasons so far have benefited greatly from Dwight's presence.

Anderson is consistently left wide open on 3s. Both Anderson and Turkoglu benefit greatly from how much attention Howard draws on screen/rolls. That allows Turk to get to the rim and finish a lot easier.

He's also getting doubled quite a bit in the post and he's looked better passing all season, that has also helped those 2 players as well as Redick. I've actually seen some decent chemistry between Dwight and Redick, with some hand offs, a few give and goes ect.

Those are the only 3 Magic players aside from Dwight who have played well and big part of their success is because of Dwight and the system. Do people expect Dwight to contend in that situation? No other star could, except maybe Lebron.

Howard has also been keeping the ball in play more frequently when he blocks shots, I've seen that lead to some transition baskets. So while he's in a bad free throw slump and his offensive game hasn't been as sharp as last season, he has made some improvements. I don't expect him to finish the season at 48% from the line considering he's been consistently mediocre at either 59 or 60% every season from his second year on. He'll finish below that this season, but 48% for the whole year? Don't see it.

[knickswin]

Dwight is very overrated to me. He gets crowned by some as the best player in the league even though he's an inconsistent player on offense and does NOTHING toward making his teammates better.

That's what made guys like Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan gold by the way. Not that they were tall. It's that they were tall and very smart team players who knew how to create looks for their teammates. That hardly applies to Dwight.

[jlip]

For my opinion, see ShaqAttack's post.

[FireDavidKahn]

Dwight is very overrated to me. He gets crowned by some as the best player in the league even though he's an inconsistent player on offense and does NOTHING toward making his teammates better.

That's what made guys like Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan gold by the way. Not that they were tall. It's that they were tall and very smart team players who knew how to create looks for their teammates. That hardly applies to Dwight.
No one ever says he is the best player in the league

[cteach111]

i don't have a problem with the criticisms, but its a hectic situation. Do these criticisms mean Dwight wants to stay with Orlando? Probably not.. since he has a shortlist of teams that he has openly admitted he would like to sign to.

It sounds like he's getting some jabs in before he hits the road.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Dwight is very overrated to me. He gets crowned by some as the best player in the league even though he's an inconsistent player on offense and does NOTHING toward making his teammates better.

That's what made guys like Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan gold by the way. Not that they were tall. It's that they were tall and very smart team players who knew how to create looks for their teammates. That hardly applies to Dwight.

Being a good passer is not the only way to make your teammates better. Dwight is the best defender in the league and consistently draws double teams in the post. Those two things do more to improve his teammates than any passing from a big man ever could.

Inconsistent on offense? He's been averaging around 20ppg for the past five years, and that's without ever having a good passing pg to work with. I'd imagine that number could go up to 22 or 23ppg if he had a good point guard.

No, he's not the guy you go to offensively down the stretch, but very very few big men are. So why is Dwight overrated? Because he hasn't won a championship? The three guys you named never won anything without HALL OF FAME wings who could shoulder some of that scoring load and make shots down the stretch. (Well, ok Hakeem did for his first championship but we'll let that slide).

Dwight is rightfully pissed off because the Magic have failed to put any talent around him, just look at the game last night; not one player on that roster scored more than 10 points other than Dwight with his 28/16. Just pathetic. I'd be mad too, and the Magic deserve to lose him.

[Kiddlovesnets]

umm this Id agree on Kobe and LBJ, but when did DRose move to the category of Kobe/LBJ? Hes not even a top 2 PG right now, dude needs to work on his playmaking skills unless hes ever as good a scorer as Kobe.

[SCdac]

First off, the Magic suck right now. It's a team game and that team collectively looks out of it and a just a hodgepodge of players. Secondly, even when the Magic didn't suck and had good players surrounded around him I thought Dwight was overrated (and overrated by default generally, look at the league right now and in the past few years, couldn't even beat Rose for MVP in his best scoring season). But right now, I don't think it's on Howard for "complaining", in a sense he's calling out management as much as he's calling out the players. As much as Dwight is a star, I think he lacks the finesse, the dexterity, and feel for the game other great big men had (that he is inevitably compared to), so it's going to take a great team around him, who knows when/if he gets it, teams are going to have to give up too much for him IMO.

[Human Error]

This guy isnt a real leader. All he is is a definite piece to a championship team...and every championship team needs a real leader like kobe rose lebron ect. The way he puts his teammates on blast...and how they dont even give a fuc about winning shows his leadership skills. Which is why he should never be considered greater then these guys.
You are downright retarded if you go with Kobe or Rose over Dwight Howard.

[Human Error]

Howard was arguably the best player in the league last season but this season he isn't better than any of the there players the OP listed and Durant as well.
Howard >>>>>>>>>> Rose

You Rose fans are not better than Carmelo Anthony fans. :facepalm

[Owl]

Dwight is very overrated to me. He gets crowned by some as the best player in the league even though he's an inconsistent player on offense and does NOTHING toward making his teammates better.

That's what made guys like Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan gold by the way. Not that they were tall. It's that they were tall and very smart team players who knew how to create looks for their teammates. That hardly applies to Dwight.
Is Dwight not getting doubled anymore? All the above players "created looks" by getting doubled passing out and hoping the open shooter scores.

If JJ Reddick and Ryan Anderson keep up their percentages without Dwight whilst retaining the same usage then I'll believe Dwight isn't "making them better".

[brisbaneman]

he will never be as good as dirk either.

also, lebron is not a leader.

[RRR3]

he will never be as good as dirk either.

also, lebron is not a leader.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[knickswin]

Is Dwight not getting doubled anymore? All the above players "created looks" by getting doubled passing out and hoping the open shooter scores.

If JJ Reddick and Ryan Anderson keep up their percentages without Dwight whilst retaining the same usage then I'll believe Dwight isn't "making them better".

Dwight definitely demands doubles (although sometimes teams will just single team him with some success) . . . but to me there is a significant difference between how he "makes his teammates better" which is to just dump it out to his teammates so they can take jump shots (often toward the end of the shot clock) and how other centers looked to create easier looks for their teammates.

[Whoah10115]

This thread is stupid. And now, we move on.

[MASH Transit]

Why would you start your franchise with a slashing guard whose dominance is dependent upon his athleticism when you can start it with a generational big, and the best defender of our era?

That doesn't make sense. Athleticism fades. Height, length, and IQ are eternal.

[knickswin]

Why would you start your franchise with a slashing guard whose dominance is dependent upon his athleticism when you can start it with a generational big, and the best defender of our era?

That doesn't make sense. Athleticism fades. Height, length, and IQ are eternal.

Dwight's game is based on athleticism too. It's not like he's particularly smart.

[rodman91]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Don't tell me you think Howard is better than prime Nowitzki...

[BlueandGold]

He's not a great leader but come on, he's carried a team to the finals and has had to put up with shit supporting casts his whole career. It's not like Derrick Rose is some great leader either, I mean hell the guy can barely talk.

Honestly I'm kind of sick of hearing about how Dwight is quitting on the Magic. The guy had 28/16 last night, and no one else on the team had over 10 points. What part of that says that Dwight is quitting on the team? If anything it seems like they're quitting on him.

Who is the second best player on that team? Ryan Anderson? Dwight's never even had an all-star caliber player playing alongside him, how can you expect him to rack up the championships?

Sad but true.. seems like a good kid but everytime he does an interview i cringe. It's like he's constantly fumbling for words. Sounds like one of those inner-city "urban" youth who take 5 minutes to read 5 paragraphs.

[Sarcastic]

Don't tell me you think Howard is better than prime Nowitzki...

At similar age/experience, Dwight is pretty far ahead of what Dirk did at that time.

[StateOfMind12]

Howard >>>>>>>>>> Rose

You Rose fans are not better than Carmelo Anthony fans. :facepalm
Last season, I would agree. This season, I would not agree. It is about as simple as that. Howard just hasn't been as effective, dominant, and impacful this season as he was last season.

[RRR3]

Don't tell me you think Howard is better than prime Nowitzki...
:facepalm

[brisbaneman]

Don't tell me you think Howard is better than prime Nowitzki...

That dude has like a GPS signal on all of my posts.

Only a clown thinks dwight freaking howard is as good as dirk.

[RRR3]

That dude has like a GPS signal on all of posts.

Only a clown thinks dwight freaking howard is as good as dirk.
No one cares what you think about Dirk, you silly homer. You aren't objective in the least (especially about Dirk) and have a weird creepy obsession with bashing Dwight Howard because you're butthurt that most people know he's better than your boyfriend. :facepalm

[Sarcastic]

Last season, I would agree. This season, I would not agree. It is about as simple as that. Howard just hasn't been as effective, dominant, and impacful this season as he was last season.

What? He's already got six 20 rebound games this year, and five 20/20 games. I think I read somewhere that that is the most of those in the first 15 games in like 20 years or something like that.

[Killbot]

I bet you made this thread just to add Rose's name. Your obsession with him is quite frightening.

[D-Wade316]

That dude has like a GPS signal on all of posts.

Only a clown thinks dwight freaking howard is as good as dirk.
I do believe that prime Nowitzki is better than prime Dwight, but you're talking as if their overall impact is not close. While Dirk blows Dwight in offense, Dwight does to Dirk on defense.

[StateOfMind12]

What? He's already got six 20 rebound games this year, and five 20/20 games. I think I read somewhere that that is the most of those in the first 15 games in like 20 years or something like that.
Howard has been better rebounding this season compared to last season but he has done everything else worse.

Howard isn't playing defense and blocking shots as well as he did last season, he isn't scoring as much or as efficiently as well as he did last season, and he sure as hell isn't a very good leader right now either.

Rose's TS% is higher than Howard's TS% and that is saying something. Howard usually shoots in the 60% range for TS% but he is shooting 55% this season.

[brisbaneman]

At similar age/experience, Dwight is pretty far ahead of what Dirk did at that time.

Dirk made the nba finals OUT WEST at 28, also made the WCF at 25. so he's pretty far ahead of howard.

[Sarcastic]

Howard has been better rebounding this season compared to last season but he has done everything else worse.

Howard isn't playing defense and blocking shots as well as he did last season, he isn't scoring as much or as efficiently as well as he did last season, and he sure as hell isn't a very good leader right now either.

Rose's TS% is higher than Howard's TS% and that is saying something. Howard usually shoots in the 60% range for TS% but he is shooting 55% this season.

His blocks are down and so is his scoring, but I am sure he will pick it up. He's a one man wrecking crew for that team. His second best player is Ryan Anderson.

[brisbaneman]

I do believe that prime Nowitzki is better than prime Dwight, but you're talking as if their overall impact is not close. While Dirk blows Dwight in offense, Dwight does to Dirk on defense.

it's not just offense, it's the total package. Dirk makes everyone better. Dwight doesn't. every time someone runs a pick and roll with dirk it's an unofficial assist. and also while howard is a far better team defender their man defense is a lot closer than you/the media want to think it is. and team defense is a lot more replaceable than great offense (eg tyson chandler)

[brisbaneman]

His blocks are down and so is his scoring, but I am sure he will pick it up. He's a one man wrecking crew for that team. His second best player is Ryan Anderson.

whats wrong with ryan anderson? he also has turkoglu and jason richardson. hardly a shitty cast.

[Sarcastic]

Dirk made the nba finals OUT WEST at 28, also made the WCF at 25. so he's pretty far ahead of howard.

Dwight made the finals at 23, and has been to two ECF. His teammates have been far worse too.

[Legends66NBA7]

:facepalm

Well what's your answer man, yes or no ?

[StateOfMind12]

His blocks are down and so is his scoring, but I am sure he will pick it up. He's a one man wrecking crew for that team. His second best player is Ryan Anderson.
Well like I said, so far in this season Rose has been better than Howard. I am not sure if there is anything to dispute otherwise. Rose isn't necessarily more valuable than Howard though but Lebron isn't more valuable than Howard either. Part of me believes that it is because Howard doesn't play on a great team but the other part of me believes that Howard just doesn't know how to make his teammates better and integrate them as well as Rose and Lebron do.

[D-Wade316]

it's not just offense, it's the total package. Dirk makes everyone better. Dwight doesn't. every time someone runs a pick and roll with dirk it's an unofficial assist. and also while howard is a far better team defender their man defense is a lot closer than you/the media want to think it is.
To sum it up, we should look at it this way:

Offense: Dirk>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dwight
Defense: Dwight>>>>>>>>>>>Dirk

[brisbaneman]

Dwight made the finals at 23, and has been to two ECF. His teammates have been far worse too.

Not relatively. You have to cumpare who they went up against. The Magic basically beat one good team (Cavs) in those runs and got crushed in the Finals against the Lakers and vs the celtics.

also, rashard lewis/turkoglu/the other guys in that Finals run were an excellent supporting cast. Turkoglu was money for them all season long.

[brisbaneman]

To sum it up, we should look at it this way:

Offense: Dirk>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dwight
Defense: Dwight>>>>>>>>>>>Dirk

You could add basically anyone to Dirk and he gets you 50 wins in the West and contention for a ring. Dwight howard needs a superstar to get a ring. and as mentioned, team defense is far more replaceable than what Dirks gives you.

[WeGetRing2012]

He's not a great leader but come on, he's carried a team to the finals and has had to put up with shit supporting casts his whole career. It's not like Derrick Rose is some great leader either, I mean hell the guy can barely talk.

Honestly I'm kind of sick of hearing about how Dwight is quitting on the Magic. The guy had 28/16 last night, and no one else on the team had over 10 points. What part of that says that Dwight is quitting on the team? If anything it seems like they're quitting on him.

Who is the second best player on that team? Ryan Anderson? Dwight's never even had an all-star caliber player playing alongside him, how can you expect him to rack up the championships?

Can the church say amen?

[knickswin]

I take Dirk 10/10 over Dwight. Dirk is great, a real star, not a fake media hype machine star. Monster scorer who could take over a game and make his teammates better. Sooooo impressive last year in the playoffs. He's really not a particularly bad rebounder or defender, it's just where he plays on the court that affects his rebounding.

[brisbaneman]

I take Dirk 10/10 over Dwight. Dirk is great, a real star, not a fake media hype machine star. Monster scorer who could take over a game and make his teammates better. Sooooo impressive last year in the playoffs. He's really not a particularly bad rebounder or defender, it's just where he plays on the court that affects his rebounding.

THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS

[Sarcastic]

Well like I said, so far in this season Rose has been better than Howard. I am not sure if there is anything to dispute otherwise. Rose isn't necessarily more valuable than Howard though but Lebron isn't more valuable than Howard either. Part of me believes that it is because Howard doesn't play on a great team but the other part of me believes that Howard just doesn't know how to make his teammates better and integrate them as well as Rose and Lebron do.

Bulls have had absolutely no problem winning when Rose was out, so I don't know what makes you think Rose has contributed so much and Howard hasn't.

[Sarcastic]

To sum it up, we should look at it this way:

Offense: Dirk>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dwight
Defense: Dwight>>>>>>>>>>>Dirk

Over their careers, Dirk has scored 4 more ppg than Dwight. Meanwhile Dwight is the reigning 3 time DMVP. Dirk has never even made 1 All Defense Team in his career.

[StateOfMind12]

Bulls have had absolutely no problem winning when Rose was out, so I don't know what makes you think Rose has contributed so much and Howard hasn't.
Do you know how to read or did you even bother to read what I posted? I just said Rose is probably less valuable than Howard but Rose has been better.

Do you understand the difference being more valuable and better? LeBron is not more valuable than Howard, but is he better? According to like 90% of NBA fans, yes he is. LeBron is probably not even more valuable than Rose, yet I can guaranteee you about 99% of NBA fans believe LeBron is better than Rose.

Being more valuable has more to do with how shitty your team is and being better has to do with being better.

[brisbaneman]

Over their careers, Dirk has scored 4 more ppg than Dwight. Meanwhile Dwight is the reigning 3 time DMVP. Dirk has never even made 1 All Defense Team in his career.

You have to look beyond statistics. When Howard scores it's often at a detriment to his team. when dirk scores it's almost always in the flow of offense. You can't really say howard makes anyone better whereas dirk has managed to make all sorts of guys look great despite a revolving supporting cast over his career in a far tougher West,.

[RRR3]

Well what's your answer man, yes or no ?
Dwight. Dirk is ridiculously overrated on ISH, and most of this board acts like he was in his prime last year anyways.

[RRR3]

Do you know how to read or did you even bother to read what I posted? I just said Rose is probably less valuable than Howard but Rose has been better.

Do you understand the difference being more valuable and better? LeBron is not more valuable than Howard, but is he better? According to like 90% of NBA fans, yes he is. LeBron is probably not even more valuable than Rose, yet I can guaranteee you about 99% of NBA fans believe LeBron is better than Rose.

Being more valuable has more to do with how shitty your team is and being better has to do with being better.
LeBron would help the Bulls more than Rose does, so yeah he's more valuable. And LOL @ Rose being better than D12 this year. Silence, RG.

[knickswin]

dirk is a much, much better scorer than Dwight. dirk is one of the best "scoring weapons" of all time. a lot of the game he won't be aggressive and will just work on moving without the ball and playing pick and pop, and then the offense will run through him in the fourth of tight games.

[D-Wade316]

Over their careers, Dirk has scored 4 more ppg than Dwight. Meanwhile Dwight is the reigning 3 time DMVP. Dirk has never even made 1 All Defense Team in his career.
Offense =/= PPG :facepalm

There's so much more about Dirk's PPG. It does not state how much his mere presence makes his teammates so much better. He provides spacing. He draws big men away from the paint, which is of huge advantage to any team. He's a great passer for his size. Dwight, meanwhile, only has decent post-moves. It's ridiculous you can even begin to compare both player's offensive impact.

Didn't I say Dwight blows Dirk away in defense?

[StateOfMind12]

LeBron would help the Bulls more than Rose does, so yeah he's more valuable. And LOL @ Rose being better than D12 this year. Silence, RG.
Nobody was talking to you because nobody cares about what you think.

[RRR3]

You have to look beyond statistics. When Howard scores it's often at a detriment to his team. when dirk scores it's almost always in the flow of offense. You can't really say howard makes anyone better whereas dirk has managed to make all sorts of guys look great despite a revolving supporting cast over his career in a far tougher West,.
Dirk is a PF who isn't a primary ballhandler. Who the hell has he made look great in his career? :facepalm

[RRR3]

Nobody was talking to you because nobody cares about what you think.
great comeback

[RRR3]

Offense =/= PPG :facepalm

There's so much more about Dirk's PPG. It does not state how much his mere presence makes his teammates so much better. He provides spacing. He draws big men away from the paint, which is of huge advantage to any team. He's a great passer for his size. Dwight, meanwhile, only has decent post-moves. It's ridiculous you can even begin to compare both player's offensive impact.

Didn't I say Dwight blows Dirk away in defense?
Dwight is a helluva lot closer to Dirk on offense than Dirk is to Dwight on defense.

[StateOfMind12]

great comeback
It wasn't a comeback, it was a statement and a true statement at that.

[knickswin]

Nobody was talking to you because nobody cares about what you think.

:applause:

amen to that . . .

[RRR3]

It wasn't a comeback, it was a statement and a true statement at that.
Says RG/Swagger, the most hated person on ISH. Ironic

[D-Wade316]

Dirk is a PF who isn't a primary ballhandler. Who the hell has he made look great in his career? :facepalm
Agh! You're too dense. Read my reply to Sarcastic's post.

[StateOfMind12]

Says RG/Swagger, the most hated person on ISH. Ironic
The problem is that RG/Swagger didn't say that, I said it.

And that is coming a lot from some ******* that has been banned like 5 times in the past week and posts on this site 31 times a day.

[RRR3]

Agh! You're too dense. Read my reply to Sarcastic's post.
I read it. Examples.

[brisbaneman]

Dirk is a PF who isn't a primary ballhandler. Who the hell has he made look great in his career? :facepalm

Is this a joke? Not sure why I even bother replying to garbage like this but here's just a few: deshawn stevenson, desgeana diop, devin harris, chandler, barea, josh howard. these guys have been invisible since leaving dallas. and thats just a short list.

[D-Wade316]

Dwight is a helluva lot closer to Dirk on offense than Dirk is to Dwight on defense.
Not really. You're prolly too fixated on PPG, just like anybody else.

[brisbaneman]

Dwight is a helluva lot closer to Dirk on offense than Dirk is to Dwight on defense.

No he isn;t.

[RRR3]

Is this a joke? Not sure why I even bother replying to garbage like this but here's just a few: deshawn stevenson, desgeana diop, devin harris, chandler, barea, josh howard. these guys have been invisible since leaving dallas. and thats just a short list.
Devin Harris made the All-Star team AFTER leaving Dallas. Chandler has been pretty damn good in NY, and was good before Dallas when he played with CP3. Diop sucks period. Stevenson blows period, but actually did more before he came to Dallas. The jury is out on Barea, he's been hurt. Howard I guess, I never thought of him as a product of Dirk. Funny you don't mention Nash, who has been MUCh better since leaving dallas.

[RRR3]

Not really. You're prolly too fixated on PPG, just like anybody else.
Dwight is a good offensive player. Dirk is a great offensive player.
Dwight is a great defender. Dirk is a terrible defender.


:hammerhead:

[D-Wade316]

I read it. Examples.
Just watch any Mavs game. Notice how much attention the defense pays on Dirk. It doesn't even begin to compare to Dwight, because Dirk can post-up, drive, shoot 3s, and shoot over the defender. That doesn't even include Dirk's court vision, which is great for a player like him.

[brisbaneman]

Devin Harris made the All-Star team AFTER leaving Dallas. Chandler has been pretty damn good in NY, and was good before Dallas when he played with CP3. Diop sucks period. Stevenson blows period, but actually did more before he came to Dallas. The jury is out on Barea, he's been hurt. Howard I guess, I never thought of him as a product of Dirk. Funny you don't mention Nash, who has been MUCh better since leaving dallas.

devin harris shotjacked in NJ and was part of a 7 win team. Chandler has been a huge disappoinment in NY. He was nowhere near as coveted in NO as he was in dallas. Hell, he was a salary dump to Dallas and to Charlotte. 1 year with dirk and he gets a 16 MM/yr salary.

[brisbaneman]

Dwight is a good offensive player. Dirk is a great offensive player.
Dwight is a great defender. Dirk is a terrible defender.


:hammerhead:

except this isn't true.

[D-Wade316]

Dwight is a good offensive player. Dirk is an all-time great offensive player.
Dwight is a great defender. Dirk is a an average defender.
Yeah, you heard it.

[brisbaneman]

Just watch any Mavs game. Notice how much attention the defense pays on Dirk. It doesn't even begin to compare to Dwight, because Dirk can post-up, drive, shoot 3s, and shoot over the defender. That doesn't even include Dirk's court vision, which is great for a player like him.

Hell to the yes. and i respect all this praise cumming from a heat fan.

[RRR3]

Just watch any Mavs game. Notice how much attention the defense pays on Dirk. It doesn't even begin to compare to Dwight, because Dirk can post-up, drive, shoot 3s, and shoot over the defender. That doesn't even include Dirk's court vision, which is great for a player like him.
That's wonderful. Dwight is still a very good offensive player, Dirk is nowhere near a very good defender.

[Sarcastic]

Dirk is a 7 foot shooting guard. Dwight absolutely dominates the paint.

Sure Dirk is a better offensive player than Dwight, but the delta between their offensive games is not as great as the delta between their defensive games.

Why do you think Mark Cuban is salivating at the prospect of getting Dwight in Dallas?

[RRR3]

Dirk is a 7 foot shooting guard. Dwight absolutely dominates the paint.

Sure Dirk is a better offensive player than Dwight, but the delta between their offensive games is not as great as the delta between their defensive games.

Why do you think Mark Cuban is salivating at the prospect of getting Dwight in Dallas?
B-b-b-b-but Dirk just won a ring!

[D-Wade316]

Dirk is nowhere near a very good defender.
Disagree with this 100%. He is slow-footed(duh), but at least he tries. His height also bothers players a lot.

[RRR3]

Disagree with this 100%. He is slow-footed(duh), but at least he tries. His height also bothers players a lot.
I've never got the impression Dirk is anything more than an adequate defensive player.

[brisbaneman]

Dirk is a 7 foot shooting guard. Dwight absolutely dominates the paint.

Sure Dirk is a better offensive player than Dwight, but the delta between their offensive games is not as great as the delta between their defensive games.

Why do you think Mark Cuban is salivating at the prospect of getting Dwight in Dallas?

Probably because Dirk is turning 34 and the rest of the team is old as shit.

Cuban wouldn't trade dirk for a prime Kobe in 06 or whenever it was. You think he'd trade a 26 year old dirk for dwight freaking Howard? You're out of your mind.

[D-Wade316]

Dirk is a 7 foot shooting guard. Dwight absolutely dominates the paint.
Didn't you saw Dirk dominate in last season's playoffs? :hammerhead:

Sure Dirk is a better offensive player than Dwight, but the delta between their offensive games is not as great as the delta between their defensive games.
Dirk is an all-time great offensive player(you heard it). They're not close really.

I have to say this again.

Offense: Dirk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dwight
Defense: Dwight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dirk



Why do you think Mark Cuban is salivating at the prospect of getting Dwight in Dallas?
Does this really need explanation? Age. :facepalm

[D-Wade316]

I've never got the impression Dirk is anything more than an adequate defensive player.
Okay. People's opinions are theirs. Nothing's gonna change that. :cheers:

[RRR3]

Didn't you saw Dirk dominate in last season's playoffs? :hammerhead:

Dirk is an all-time great offensive player(you heard it). They're not close really.

I have to say this again.

Offense: Dirk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dwight
Defense: Dwight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dirk



Does this really need explanation? Age. :facepalm
How do you define "all-time great" offensive player?

[Legends66NBA7]

Dirk is a 7 foot shooting guard.

No, that's more Andrea Bargnani...

[D-Wade316]

How do you define "all-time great" offensive player?
It depends. IMO, I group them into two groups; Facilitators and Scorers. Dirk is one of those all-time greats in scoring.

[RRR3]

It depends. IMO, I group them into two groups; Facilitators and Scorers. Dirk is one of those all-time greats in scoring.
I think one can name a fair amount of better scorers all-time

[Sarcastic]

It depends. IMO, I group them into two groups; Facilitators and Scorers. Dirk is one of those all-time greats in scoring.

He's not even top 10.

[D-Wade316]

He's not even top 10.
Name me ten other players who can score better than Dirk. Go.

[Sarcastic]

Name me ten other players who can score better than Dirk. Go.

Jordan
Wilt
Kobe
West
Kareem
Malone
Bird
Shaq
Olajuwon
Lebron

[EricGordon23]

I would take Dwight over anyone but Lebron James. Anyone who wouldn't seems delusional.

[rodman91]

Howard is 26-27. Age isn't an excuse anymore. Howard's domination is overrated because of no true centers or power forwards todays game.


Howard's only great competiton was against Gasol and he failed.

12 pts (1/6 - 17%)
17 pts (5/10 -50%)
21 pts (5/6 - 83%)
16 pts (5/12 -42%)
11 pts (5/9-57%)

Howard is great rebounder. Great at protecting rim.But average offensive center.He can't carry his team offensively. I can't say he is better just because he takes 5 more rebounds and protect rim better.

Nowitzki has been one of the best playoff performers ever. He played big against big players.He is/was best 7 foot shooter and he was good to great against Malone,Garnett,Duncan when he faced them. He did all these earlier or almost same age to Howard. All before last year.

Nowitzki isn't some regular superstar. He is at least 4th-5th best powerforward ever and has even case for to be second by his accomplishments. He is former MVP, FMVP and one of four player ever to have +25 & +10 rpg in playoffs.

[D-Wade316]

Jordan - yeah
Wilt - yeah
Kobe - equal
West - equal
Kareem - yeah
Malone - equal
Bird - no
Shaq - yeah
Olajuwon - yeah
Lebron - equal
Answered. Not so sure though.

[rodman91]

How do you define "all-time great" offensive player?

2nd player in NBA history to shoot better than 50% FG, 40% 3PT, and 90% FT in a season and average more than 20 ppg. (Other was Larry Bird)

1 of 4 players in NBA history to average + 25ppg and + 10rpg in the NBA playoffs. (Elgin Baylor, Hakeem Olajuwon, Bob Petit)

Good enough?

[Sarcastic]

2nd player in NBA history to shoot better than 50% FG, 40% 3PT, and 90% FT in a season and average more than 20 ppg. (Other was Larry Bird)

1 of 4 players in NBA history to average + 25ppg and + 10rpg in the NBA playoffs. (Elgin Baylor, Hakeem Olajuwon, Bob Petit)

Good enough?

Larry Bird did it twice, while scoring 29.9 and 28 ppg (Dirk did 24.5 ppg), yet D-Wade316 thinks Dirk is better than Bird offensively :facepalm

[Sarcastic]

BTW, Dirk barely made his 50/40/90 club. He was at .502 fg% and .904 ft%.

[D-Wade316]

Larry Bird did it twice, while scoring 29.9 and 28 ppg (Dirk did 24.5 ppg), yet D-Wade316 thinks Dirk is better than Bird offensively :facepalm
It's scorers you tool. :facepalm And lastly, Dirk certainly has a case over Bird over whose better offensively. You're thick skull prolly is preventing that though.

[brisbaneman]

rodman91 is killing it!

[Sarcastic]

It's scorers you tool. :facepalm And lastly, Dirk certainly has a case over Bird over whose better offensively. You're thick skull prolly is preventing that though.

What do you think the 50/40/90 club is?

[EricGordon23]

You guys act like The refs blow the Whistle as much as they should. Dwight gets fouled a ridiculous amount of times and gets no call and he still averages like 23 ppg. when in fact I would say if he got as much calls as he was suppose to he would be getting 27 PPG atleast.