The best point guard in the league

[ThatsGame]

Chris Paul or Derrick Rose?

[HylianNightmare]

http://www.lakermania.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/derek_fisher.jpg

[Legends66NBA7]

Derrick Rose for me.

[Jotaro Durant]

easily paul

real talk rose barely makes top 3........

[DaPerceive]

Russell Westbrook

(not srs)

[Tenchi Ryu]

I'm going with Rose, but its so close, either answer is understandable. The ESPN announcer and Chris Mullen couldn't even decide....Its that close.

But I can say that a hot Chris Paul is definitely in the Top 5 now.

[WeGetRing2012]

is Deron Williams.

[Boogaboog]

Chris Paul, easily.

[gyu]

Rose is sick, but I gotta go with Chris Paul. Feels like Chris has a more refined game and plays more under control (this is just my opinion). I've never seen anybody with as good ball protection as him either.

[knickswin]

it is nice that this feels like a legitimate discussion again. Chris Paul looking like the Chris Paul of old :applause:

that said, I think that Derrick Rose has more of an impact.

BUT if the clippers were to hire a better coach (I am telling you Mike D'Antoni would be perfect next year) who could utilize CP3's creativity off the dribble better, he would be incredibly dynamic.

[talkingconch]

It's chris paul

[Mr. Jabbar]

CP3.

dont reach.

[StateOfMind12]

Chris Paul and I'm a Bulls fan. As a matter of fact, I might go as far as saying Chris Paul is the best player in the league.

[UtahJazzFan88]

Chris Duhon.

[LemonMan]

Cp3 :bowdown:

[dyna]

Rose is sick, but I gotta go with Chris Paul. Feels like Chris has a more refined game and plays more under control (this is just my opinion). I've never seen anybody with as good ball protection as him either.

:cheers:

CP3 for me..

[BrentISballin]

Chris Paul has better court vision but rose is able to draw the contact and take it hard to the rack.

If I had an NBA team and had to choose one , I'd be pretty stressed out on who to take but in the end I'd go with Rose just because of his work ethic and drive to be the greatest. Not saying Paul doesn't have those qualities but Rose seems like he plays purely for the love of the game and he wants to be the greatest.

[All Net]

As a point guard? Paul

as a player? Rose

[lilbeastnani]

The reason why I don't understand how anyone could pick D-Rose is because:

Defense: Advantage CP3
Passing: maybe about even, but i'd give the slight edge to CP3
Ball handling: same as above
Offense: CP3 by a mile. When you need a play down the stretch, whether that be a shot, a FT, a drive, whatever the case may be, just as much as you can count on him to be a great playmaker, you can also count on him to carry you offensively as proven time and time again. D-Rose down the stretch and offensively in general is a lot more of an unknown variable in crunch time.

[Silenttristo]

Deron Williams.

[Tenchi Ryu]

The reason why I don't understand how anyone could pick D-Rose is because:

Defense: Advantage CP3
Don't see how, CP3 has more steals, Rose has more shot blocks and Rebounds.


Passing: maybe about even, but i'd give the slight edge to CP3
Personal preference. CP3 passes with style, Rose passes with force.




Ball handling: same as above
Even for me



Offense: CP3 by a mile. When you need a play down the stretch, whether that be a shot, a FT, a drive, whatever the case may be, just as much as you can count on him to be a great playmaker, you can also count on him to carry you offensively as proven time and time again. D-Rose down the stretch and offensively in general is a lot more of an unknown variable in crunch time.
Did you watch the Heat game sunday? Even WITH Heat able to focus solely on him, he's STILL too dominate to completely stop. CP3's offense is off PNR, so he gets nice looks. Rose usually has a hand in his face all the time, and STILL get his shots. He has has one of the best Mid-range jumpers in the game. To say Rose isn't as dependable down the stretch as Paul is crazy. One missed pair of freethrows and a short floater shouldn't take away his ability to close out and be clutch.

[1987_Lakers]

Chris Paul for me easily. CP3s advantage in shooting, efficiency, passing, & defense is the difference for me.

[knickswin]

they're both overrated passers. Rose needs to keep his feet on the ground and Chris Paul kicks it out too much.

[lilbeastnani]

It's not one pair of freethrows considering that D-Rose has been in the NBA and in the playoffs for the past 3 seasons. We've seen a whole lot of him, and last season when he had a chance to shine.. best team record wise in the league, MVP trophy his offense faltered and his percentages went way down, especially in the ECF when it mattered most. And you can say that CP3 passes with style vs. force, but look at the NUMBERS. Rose is giving you less than 8 a game right now and that's his career high. For his career he's putting up a forceful 7 to CP3's stylish 10. How's this even debatable? I don't even really consider D-Rose a point guard as much as I see him as a combo guard with point guard ability.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Chris Paul is by far the best PG in the league, the top 10 list goes as follows(with rating included):

1. Chris Paul 100
2. Deron Williams 90
3. Derrick Rose 86
4. Rajon Rondo 81
5. Steve Nash 80
6. Russell Westbrook 78
7. Tony Parker 75
8. Kyle Lowry 73
9. Brandon Jennings 71
10. John Wall 70

[Tenchi Ryu]

And you can say that CP3 passes with style vs. force, but look at the NUMBERS. Rose is giving you less than 8 a game right now and that's his career high.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
Looking at numbers is NOT how you see how well a PG someone is. In order to get assists, the person that GETS the pass has to MAKE the SHOT. And this Bulls team doesn't get criticized for its lacking Offense at times for nothing. I can't count the number of times Boozer has gotten a good look from Rose, and not make it. Every Bulls fan can easily tell you that Rose assists numbers would, and should be higher.

Then adding in that CP3 is in LOB city, and how their game is off PNR and alley oops, of course CP3 has more assists.

[EricGordon23]

1) D-will
2) Cp3
3) Westbrook
4) Drose

[bizil]

As a point guard? Paul

as a player? Rose

That pretty much sums it up! There is a premium for droppin those dimes and being a pure floor general at the PG. Paul does that and can score damn near just as much as Rose. Paul can and has averaged at least 20 points and 10 assists in multiple seasons.

However, its about the impact one can have on a game. Rose is still a very good passer and floor general. But his scoring ability is what makes him special. He's arguably the most freakish athlete the PG spot has ever seen. So if Im on a Philly team like 2001 with AI, I would rather have Rose than Paul on that team. But I prefer my PG's to be great floor generals and have the ability to be an alpha dog and takeover scoring. So in my book, CP3 and D Will are as good as it gets in the L.

But the premier premium asset in bball is the ability to be an alpha dog scorer and carry a team. Rose has that as good as any PG in the L. And will get 8 assists a night. So in that sense, his impact can be greater than Paul's. But u can't go wrong either way. Two great players with two different styles.

[knickswin]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
Looking at numbers is NOT how you see how well a PG someone is. In order to get assists, the person that GETS the pass has to MAKE the SHOT. And this Bulls team doesn't get criticized for its lacking Offense at times for nothing. I can't count the number of times Boozer has gotten a good look from Rose, and not make it. Every Bulls fan can easily tell you that Rose assists numbers would, and should be higher.

Then adding in that CP3 is in LOB city, and how their game is off PNR and alley oops, of course CP3 has more assists.

the counter argument to that is that the type of passes Rose makes (a lot of pnp and a lot of hitting open jump shooters) are less creative and create lower quality looks for his teammates than Paul does. granted, I don't think Paul creates the highest quality looks because he drives and kicks a lot too.

[lilbeastnani]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
Looking at numbers is NOT how you see how well a PG someone is. In order to get assists, the person that GETS the pass has to MAKE the SHOT. And this Bulls team doesn't get criticized for its lacking Offense at times for nothing. I can't count the number of times Boozer has gotten a good look from Rose, and not make it. Every Bulls fan can easily tell you that Rose assists numbers would, and should be higher.

Then adding in that CP3 is in LOB city, and how their game is off PNR and alley oops, of course CP3 has more assists.
A great point guard can make any place lob city. CP3 didn't have Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan in New Orleans and actually put up better passing numbers over there. I don't really understand your point. As I said before, combo guard vs. pure point guard. Hard to debate.

[xcesswee]

If I needed a player to carry a team offensively night in and night out: Rose

If I had a well balanced team I would take Paul because he's a better play maker and leader.

[Fudge]

1. Rose
2. Paul
3. Westbrook
4. Deron
5. Rondo

[Tenchi Ryu]

A great point guard can make any place lob city. CP3 didn't have Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan in New Orleans and actually put up better passing numbers over there. I don't really understand your point. As I said before, combo guard vs. pure point guard. Hard to debate.
No, that's exactly the WRONG way to look at things. A great point guard is not determined on how many passes they get, or how many points they make. A great point guard is someone that makes good decisions, and can effectively control the pace of the game as captain. Kenny Smith was stating this on Inside the NBA a few weeks ago.

Rose makes the decision to be facilitator in the first 3 quarters, and takes over in the 4th, or if his team is not having a good shooting night.

Miami had plenty of opportunities to take the lead and run with it, but Rose as PG took the necessary steps as PG to do whatever it took to get back in the game, and he decided to score himself.

[Collie]

Best at each position:

PG: Chris Paul
SG: Derrick Rose
SF: Lebron James
PF: Kevin Love
C: Dwight Howard





















I keed.

[lilbeastnani]

See that's the thing. I can agree to that. In building a franchise from the ground up if I needed that one guy to start it up with and to build around i'd take D-Rose over CP3. If I had all the pieces of a championship calibur team put together and I needed that engine to rev it up and make it go, i'd take Chris Paul 10 times out of 10. And that is why I feel he's tops in any "best point guard" debate. Because that's exactly what he is, the best point guard in the league. If we had a "best player in the league" discussion that's where i'd probably say Derrick Rose would rank ahead of Paul.

[StateOfMind12]

1. Rose
2. Paul
3. Westbrook
4. Deron
5. Rondo
Not sure if I would agree with this but I do see the argument I guess. Rondo at #5 though? No way, Nash is way better than Rondo.

[OmniStrife]

What makes Deron such a good PG??

Sure he's a good player but he's the only PG in this discussion who doesn't improve the players around him.

[StateOfMind12]

What makes Deron such a good PG??

Sure he's a good player but he's the only PG in this discussion who doesn't improve the players around him.
He improved a lot of players in Utah. I am pretty sure you can put any PG in New Jersey and you can criticize them for the same thing. I don't think it is necessarily Deron Williams' fault that he can't elevate a bunch of garbage. He can't make chicken salad with chicken shit, not a lot of PGs can.

[Tenchi Ryu]

He can't make chicken salad with chicken shit, not a lot of PGs can.
John Wall is crying right now.

[lbj23clutch]

CP3 for now...


Better shooter, court vision, play making, decision making, better leader and much more clutch. Only problem with CP3 is staying healthy.

[MMM]

Paul at his best is better than Rose at his but the problem is Paul is way to passive at times whole Rose is far more aggressive. However, it goes farther than that because Rose is far more relentless it seems and with that it seems like his teams are never out of games.

To break it down I would say
Paul is the better offensive player but Rose is the better scorer
While Rose is the better man-to-man defender but Paul is the better team defender.

Finally speaking on the 2 as passers while Rose is a good passer I don't think he is an elite passer as of yet. Yes, he might not have the greatest offensive weapons around him but I don't just his passing ability on assist numbers anyways.

[StateOfMind12]

CP3 for now...


Better shooter, court vision, play making, decision making, better leader and much more clutch. Only problem with CP3 is staying healthy.
That is pretty much why going forward I would take Rose over CP3.

If I had to pick a PG for my team for the next 5-10 years, I would take Derrick Rose.
If I had to pick a PG for my team to win a championship right now, this season, I would take Chris Paul.

[comerb]

It has been Paul for the last several years.

[MMM]

the counter argument to that is that the type of passes Rose makes (a lot of pnp and a lot of hitting open jump shooters) are less creative and create lower quality looks for his teammates than Paul does. granted, I don't think Paul creates the highest quality looks because he drives and kicks a lot too.

Your correct but Paul also has created a lot of looks in the paint/rim over the years which are the highest % shot. Additionally he has done it with multiple personal so we can see what the common factor is in his production in passes that lead to the paint, rim, or fouls

[Pointguard]

CP3 takes off waaaaay too many games. CP3 plays like 40% of the games over the last year. He mentally can't get up for every game. Like the mental battery dies out or something. In the playoffs he seems more focused but he's got that handicap going on. His leadership in games where he slacks really affects his team.

Between this year and last year Rose has played about 40 games mentally and physically better than CP3. And Rose plays a way more aggressive game. To say when CP3 is on... well that's a question mark, and when Rose is on he's better than CP3 when he's on. This year and last year Rose has better than any player in taking over games as well. And he's been winning like crazy with all types of obstacles. Rose wasn't in the Clipper's game until he realized that CP3 started showing off his dribble. And then he really outplayed him. One of the best PG games this year.

Now if Chris keeps his head in the game and plays lets say 90% of his games with his head in it, then its really interesting. As for right now a guy that is unstoppable in 70% of his games is better than a guy that is a very high level well rounded guy 60% of his games. CP3 is questionable in too many games. CP3 needs consistency to get his spot back.

[I.R.Beast]

That is pretty much why going forward I would take Rose over CP3.

If I had to pick a PG for my team for the next 5-10 years, I would take Derrick Rose.
If I had to pick a PG for my team to win a championship right now, this season, I would take Chris Paul.
LMAO...u crazy..... chris paul is too passive to have the type of success with the Bulls team that rose is having.

[32Dayz]

http://sportsmedia.ign.com/sports/image/article/664/664188/chris-paul-interview-20051103033612394-000-000.jpg

/Thread.

[I.R.Beast]

CP3 takes off waaaaay too many games. CP3 plays like 40% of the games over the last year. He mentally can't get up for every game. Like the mental battery dies out or something. In the playoffs he seems more focused but he's got that handicap going on. His leadership in games where he slacks really affects his team.

Between this year and last year Rose has played about 40 games mentally and physically better than CP3. And Rose plays a way more aggressive game. To say when CP3 is on... well that's a question mark, and when Rose is on he's better than CP3 when he's on. This year and last year Rose has better than any player in taking over games as well. And he's been winning like crazy with all types of obstacles. Rose wasn't in the Clipper's game until he realized that CP3 started showing off his dribble. And then he really outplayed him. One of the best PG games this year.

Now if Chris keeps his head in the game and plays lets say 90% of his games with his head in it, then its really interesting. As for right now a guy that is unstoppable in 70% of his games is better than a guy that is a very high level well rounded guy 60% of his games. CP3 is questionable in too many games. CP3 needs consistency to get his spot back.


this..... CP3 has become quite passive and inconsistent ovver the years...Last year especially.... He just had 2 pedestrian games prior to his last 2. Rose is more consistent in what he does, and is harder to game plan for. When Cp3 comes to town you know it;s the PnR, contain it and you got a great chance to win. When Rose comes to town you are saying okay guys WE need to stop this guy. Rose has more of an impact on the game than any other pG because of his ability to finish at the rim as if he were a 6 foot 7 shooting guarding taking contact and finishing amongst giants.

Most of what chris paul does offensively is of of the screen and roll and how well would he fare outside of that type of syste, His efficiency will surely not be the same. Derrick Rose does more offensively than chris is a better man defender than paul and is just the better player. Too much emphasis is put on this whole true PG stuff.... play your but off and get the win thats all that matters assists are arbitrary.

Paul Had 40 games last year with 15 points or less, 14 of those under 10 points.... Rose only had 7 games total with 15 or less points and only 1 game with less than 10....

[MMM]

this..... CP3 has become quite passive and inconsistent ovver the years...Last year especially.... He just had 2 pedestrian games prior to his last 2. Rose is more consistent in what he does, and is harder to game plan for. When Cp3 comes to town you know it;s the PnR, contain it and you got a great chance to win. When Rose comes to town you are saying okay guys WE need to stop this guy. Rose has more of an impact on the game than any other pG because of his ability to finish at the rim as if he were a 6 foot 7 shooting guarding taking contact and finishing amongst giants.

Most of what chris paul does offensively is of of the screen and roll and how well would he fare outside of that type of syste, His efficiency will surely not be the same. Derrick Rose does more offensively than chris is a better man defender than paul and is just the better player. Too much emphasis is put on this whole true PG stuff.... play your but off and get the win thats all that matters assists are arbitrary.

Paul Had 40 games last year with 15 points or less, 14 of those under 10 points.... Rose only had 7 games total with 15 or less points and only 1 game with less than 10....

You make some good points but "Derrick Rose does more offensively than Chris" doesn't really stand up. Rose might be a better scorer but offensively there is more that goes into the pg position and I don't think Rose is all the way there yet in terms of running a team effectively.

[I.R.Beast]

You make some good points but "Derrick Rose does more offensively than Chris" doesn't really stand up. Rose might be a better scorer but offensively there is more that goes into the pg position and I don't think Rose is all the way there yet in terms of running a team effectively.


The whole running a team thing just seems so over-used these days. Chris Paul is a PnR pg, it's the same thing every possession. But paul doesn't really run offense outside of that, like the way you'd see Rondo go to the top and call the plays and point guys to their spots etc. Paul generally calls for the screen or the iso.

Paul does 3 things

He will work the PnR, else if the PnR was defended properly he'd work his dribble to try t get the defender to bite on moves, or he'd over dribble and hit a cutter(if the player makes a cut). He's extremely ball dominant. Rose is more decisive with the ball in that he uses less of the shot clock that paul.

[Pointguard]

Paul Had 40 games last year with 15 points or less, 14 of those under 10 points.... Rose only had 7 games total with 15 or less points and only 1 game with less than 10....

And I guessed these numbers. Paul is consistently a slacker.

[Pointguard]

The whole running a team thing just seems so over-used these days. Chris Paul is a PnR pg, it's the same thing every possession. But paul doesn't really run offense outside of that, like the way you'd see Rondo go to the top and call the plays and point guys to their spots etc. Paul generally calls for the screen or the iso.

Paul does 3 things

He will work the PnR, else if the PnR was defended properly he'd work his dribble to try t get the defender to bite on moves, or he'd over dribble and hit a cutter(if the player makes a cut). He's extremely ball dominant. Rose is more decisive with the ball in that he uses less of the shot clock that paul.

Repped you on the other post but you nailed it here. You summed CP up right on point. There isn't a lot of variation with Paul and to top it off he lacks enthusiasm if it isn't a nationally televised game. At one point he was as aware as Rondo and Rubio, he isn't like that now.

[Tenchi Ryu]

The whole running a team thing just seems so over-used these days. Chris Paul is a PnR pg, it's the same thing every possession. But paul doesn't really run offense outside of that, like the way you'd see Rondo go to the top and call the plays and point guys to their spots etc. Paul generally calls for the screen or the iso.

Paul does 3 things

He will work the PnR, else if the PnR was defended properly he'd work his dribble to try t get the defender to bite on moves, or he'd over dribble and hit a cutter(if the player makes a cut). He's extremely ball dominant. Rose is more decisive with the ball in that he uses less of the shot clock that paul.
Repped

[D-Wade316]

Chris Paul, by a mile.

[pauk]

Jennings? He certainly played like it last night...... :confusedshrug: :facepalm :banghead:

[MMM]

The whole running a team thing just seems so over-used these days. Chris Paul is a PnR pg, it's the same thing every possession. But paul doesn't really run offense outside of that, like the way you'd see Rondo go to the top and call the plays and point guys to their spots etc. Paul generally calls for the screen or the iso.

Paul does 3 things

He will work the PnR, else if the PnR was defended properly he'd work his dribble to try t get the defender to bite on moves, or he'd over dribble and hit a cutter(if the player makes a cut). He's extremely ball dominant. Rose is more decisive with the ball in that he uses less of the shot clock that paul.

That is a good point in clock usage and decisiveness. However, I still don't see how that proves "Rose is better than him offensively". Paul shouldn't be faulted for the system he runs because I'm sure if he had a coach like Doc he would also be able to direct traffic in the way Rondo does. Paul has an ability to read a defense in a way that Rose isn't at yet and I believe that ability would allow him to run an offense as you described.

[SacJB Shady]

Chris Paul is the best point guard in the NBA, he's a better pure player too than D Rose. Steve Nash is still pretty good though, but if i had to start a franchise, I would go with Chris Paul. Chris Paul should get in better shape, even still. He should get in elite shape and not just rely on his talent. But Chris Paul is better than D Rose. He can score almost as good as Rose can, he's more efficient, just as clutch, but can carry a team so much more, while making everyone else better. D Rose is more like a young Gilbert Arenas.

[MMM]

Chris Paul is the best point guard in the NBA, he's a better pure player too than D Rose. Steve Nash is still pretty good though, but if i had to start a franchise, I would go with Chris Paul. Chris Paul should get in better shape, even still. He should get in elite shape and not just rely on his talent. But Chris Paul is better than D Rose. He can score almost as good as Rose can, he's more efficient, just as clutch, but can carry a team so much more, while making everyone else better. D Rose is more like a young Gilbert Arenas.

If I'm starting a franchise I would go with a player who is younger and who doesn't have an injury history.

[alenleomessi]

Its Chris Paul for almost 5 years now...

[boxclever]

Chris Paul is the best point guard in the NBA, he's a better pure player too than D Rose. Steve Nash is still pretty good though, but if i had to start a franchise, I would go with Chris Paul. Chris Paul should get in better shape, even still. He should get in elite shape and not just rely on his talent. But Chris Paul is better than D Rose. He can score almost as good as Rose can, he's more efficient, just as clutch, but can carry a team so much more, while making everyone else better. D Rose is more like a young Gilbert Arenas.
Agree with all of this except the bit in bold

[Clippersfan86]

Some of you guys are ignorant. Do you know the Clippers are the most efficient NBA offense when Paul is healthy? With Paul in lineup the Clippers are averaging 115 points per 100 possessions and 95 per 100 without him. I don't think you guys quite realize that CP3 runs an entire offense.

It's not all about scoring. It's about reading defenses and always making the right decisions. Something he's head and shoulders above Rose in. Rose has a team built around his strengths but I promise you he couldn't run the Clippers the way CP3 has. He's not a constant vocal floor general who gets guys in their spots.

Completely different animals. One player carries his team... the other elevates every teammate around him so he doesn't have to carry the team.

LOL at I.R spitting a bunch of bad information out and getting praised for it. There is nothing over used about running a team because the numbers prove that Chris Paul alone takes the Clippers from middle of the pack offense to the top offense in the league. Their turnover rate is also the best in the NBA with Paul in the lineup and near worst without him. Do you realize the impact that would have on a team!?

[JGXEN]

The whole running a team thing just seems so over-used these days. Chris Paul is a PnR pg, it's the same thing every possession. But paul doesn't really run offense outside of that, like the way you'd see Rondo go to the top and call the plays and point guys to their spots etc. Paul generally calls for the screen or the iso.

Paul does 3 things

He will work the PnR, else if the PnR was defended properly he'd work his dribble to try t get the defender to bite on moves, or he'd over dribble and hit a cutter(if the player makes a cut). He's extremely ball dominant. Rose is more decisive with the ball in that he uses less of the shot clock that paul.
Wow, bulls eye. Repped.

[MMM]

Agree with all of this except the bit in bold

Yea just because Rose is a scoring guard doesn't mean he is all that comparable to Gilbert Arenas or Iverson. Imo, he is more comparable to Kobe than the other two but overall I think it time we stop disparaging Rose for his PG abilities because he is refining and developing that aspect of his game at a phenomenal rate over his young career.

[MMM]

Some of you guys are ignorant. Do you know the Clippers are easily the most efficient NBA offense when Paul is healthy? With Paul in lineup the Clippers are averaging 115 points per 100 possessions and 95 per 100 without him. I don't think you guys quite realize that CP3 runs an entire offense.

It's not all about scoring. It's about reading defenses and always making the right decisions. Something he's head and shoulders above Rose in. Rose has a team built around his strengths but I promise you he couldn't run the Clippers the way CP3 has. He's not a constant vocal floor general who gets guys in their spots.

Completely different animals. One player carries his team... the other elevates every teammate around him so he doesn't have to carry the team.

LOL at I.R spitting a bunch of bad information out and getting praised for it. There is nothing over used about running a team because the numbers prove that Chris Paul alone takes the Clippers from middle of the pack offense to the top offense in the league. Their turnover rate is also the best in the NBA with Paul in the lineup and near worst without him. Do you realize the impact that would have on a team!?

That is an interesting way of putting it but that is exactly the reason why a lot of people would take Rose over Paul. People today prefer that take over ability and carrying your team to a victory. For, example a game a last week vs. LAL I was quite disappointed that Paul didn't try to look to take on more of the scoring load late and take over the game. Rose in a similar situation would of probably taken over the game with his scoring ability and got the W.

[Clippersfan86]

That is an interesting way of putting it but that is exactly the reason why a lot of people would take Rose over Paul. People today prefer that take over ability and carrying your team to a victory. For, example a game a last week vs. LAL I was quite disappointed that Paul didn't try to look to take on more of the scoring load late and take over the game. Rose in a similar situation would of probably taken over the game with his scoring ability and got the W.

It's all about fit. CP3 would make the Bulls worse if traded there... and Rose would no doubt make the Clippers worse. Just like Iverson would have made the Lakers worse... Kobe would have made the Sixers worse. I saw a breakdown last year that was super interesting. Showed that based on roster make up.. volume scorers vs efficiency scorers... can both be better. All depends on situation.

Paul is still learning his teammates and what the team needs man. The Lakers game was his first game back from injury. He was rusty and the last 3 games he's been WAY more aggressive on offense since teammates and coaches told him to shoot more. I know next time he faces Lakers it will be different.

[D-Wade316]

Some of you guys are ignorant. Do you know the Clippers are the most efficient NBA offense when Paul is healthy? With Paul in lineup the Clippers are averaging 115 points per 100 possessions and 95 per 100 without him. I don't think you guys quite realize that CP3 runs an entire offense.

It's not all about scoring. It's about reading defenses and always making the right decisions. Something he's head and shoulders above Rose in. Rose has a team built around his strengths but I promise you he couldn't run the Clippers the way CP3 has. He's not a constant vocal floor general who gets guys in their spots.

Completely different animals. One player carries his team... the other elevates every teammate around him so he doesn't have to carry the team.

LOL at I.R spitting a bunch of bad information out and getting praised for it. There is nothing over used about running a team because the numbers prove that Chris Paul alone takes the Clippers from middle of the pack offense to the top offense in the league. Their turnover rate is also the best in the NBA with Paul in the lineup and near worst without him. Do you realize the impact that would have on a team!?
:applause:

Just look at how terrible offensively the Hornets now are.

[Bigsmoke]

Chris Paul might be better because of his versitlity but Rose can actually stay healthy. Chris Paul looking like his old self out there.

[All Net]

:applause:

Just look at how terrible offensively the Hornets now are.

Losing Paul is not the only reason for this though...

[Clippersfan86]

Chris Paul might be better because of his versitlity but Rose can actually stay healthy. Chris Paul looking like his old self out there.

CP3 missed 5 games... but he should be healthy rest of way. Trainers are strengthening and heating up his legs real good with special treatment+exercises every game.

[chips93]

Some of you guys are ignorant. Do you know the Clippers are the most efficient NBA offense when Paul is healthy? With Paul in lineup the Clippers are averaging 115 points per 100 possessions and 95 per 100 without him. I don't think you guys quite realize that CP3 runs an entire offense.

this is a pretty staggering statistic.

the difference between the clippers offense with him on the court and off it, is 14.7 points per 100 possessions

to put that in perspective, the difference between the best offensive team in the league (the heat) and the worst offensive team (the bucks) is 14.1 points per 100 possessions.

:eek:

i expect that to fall a bit, 33 games isnt a great sample size for these kinds of stats, but its still very impressive.


It's not all about scoring. It's about reading defenses and always making the right decisions. Something he's head and shoulders above Rose in. Rose has a team built around his strengths but I promise you he couldn't run the Clippers the way CP3 has. He's not a constant vocal floor general who gets guys in their spots.

he isnt as good as cp3 in this regard, but i think hes improved a lot since last year.


Completely different animals. One player carries his team... the other elevates every teammate around him so he doesn't have to carry the team.


this is really what it boils down to. both guys make their teams a lot better, but they do it in comlpetely different ways.

ill still take rose though, cp3 is too inconsistent, and at times passive for my liking. and like i said rose has improved a lot this year in his ability to run his team.

[blablabla]

rose>chris fall

[nathanjizzle]

chris rose

[nathanjizzle]

derrick paul

[blacknapalm]

i.r. beast posting more drivel? typical

i prefer facts so i cracked open synergy sports to see if what you're saying can be proven....

during their offensive sets, rose is the P&R ball handler in 38.4% of them while cp3 is at 35.2%. rose gets 1.02 ppp out of it and cp3 gets .99. so, in fact, rose has relied more on the P&R than cp3 this year. fact. so that negates your argument/observation

now, let's move to iso. cp3 isos 33.3% of the time to rose's 15.8%. cp3 scores on 1.17 ppp to rose's .84. fact.

let's recap. does cp3 use P&R more than rose? no. does cp3 iso more than rose? yes.

is i.r. beast full of bs? of course. you already got served up in the rubio thread. you apparently value scoring above all else. you probably think jennings > cp3 because he has a higher career high and averages more points

now, let's move to defense. in iso situations, cp3 has been allowing .74 ppp to rose's 1.0 ppp. in spot up situations, cp3 is allowing .85 ppp to rose's .98 ppp. however, we can look at guarding the P&R ball handler and rose is better there. he allows .64 ppp and cp3 allows .85 ppp. with all that said, stats show they're pretty even defensively though in certain matchups, i'd give rose the edge.

all the game film for the cited plays are there. the notion that durant and cp3 only get their points coming off screens, transition and P&R is ludicrous and patently false

[DC Zephyrs]

Steve Nash! 30/10 on 13/16 shooting in 29 minutes :applause:

Okay for real, it's Chris Paul. And Rose is probably after him. But give me Steve over Westbrook, Rondo, and D. Will any day. Who cares if he's old as sh*t, he's still the best shooter and playmaker in the NBA and can run an offense better than any of those guys.

[Sarcastic]

Chris Paul and I'm a Bulls fan. As a matter of fact, I might go as far as saying Chris Paul is the best player in the league.

Don't go that far.

[greymatter]

Chris Paul has better court vision but rose is able to draw the contact and take it hard to the rack.

If I had an NBA team and had to choose one , I'd be pretty stressed out on who to take but in the end I'd go with Rose just because of his work ethic and drive to be the greatest. Not saying Paul doesn't have those qualities but Rose seems like he plays purely for the love of the game and he wants to be the greatest.

All the work ethic and drive in the world can never substitute for IQ and decision making ability. Rose might improve the latter over experience, but he'll never have elite PG skills or score at elite efficiency relative to his position. Sadly for Bulls fans, reality says that score first PGs with average true PG skills are never mentioned along with the greatest at the position.

[greymatter]

Completely different animals. One player carries his team... the other elevates every teammate around him so he doesn't have to carry the team.



This is the exact quality that most people simply don't get.

Before this whole CP3/Rose debate, there was the "which peak player would you build your franchise around: Jordan or Bird" assuming health/longevity was on even ground. All the Jordan-stans got their panties in a bunch when I said Bird every day of the week. I acknowledged that Jordan was the overall superior player. However, they got all pissy when I stated the fact that while Jordan was clearly the superior player, he was vastly inferior as a teammate compared to Bird (sound familiar? --> Chamberlain/Russell). They're quick to point out that Bird had McHale and Parish, but what these idiots either ignore or simply don't know about is that McHale and Parish didn't join the Celtics until Bird's 2nd season. Bird took a 29 win team to 61 without those two.

[Rnbizzle]

Derrick Rose.

[Dave3]

i.r. beast posting more drivel? typical

i prefer facts so i cracked open synergy sports to see if what you're saying can be proven....

during their offensive sets, rose is the P&R ball handler in 38.4% of them while cp3 is at 35.2%. rose gets 1.02 ppp out of it and cp3 gets .99. so, in fact, rose has relied more on the P&R than cp3 this year. fact. so that negates your argument/observation

now, let's move to iso. cp3 isos 33.3% of the time to rose's 15.8%. cp3 scores on 1.17 ppp to rose's .84. fact.

let's recap. does cp3 use P&R more than rose? no. does cp3 iso more than rose? yes.

is i.r. beast full of bs? of course. you already got served up in the rubio thread. you apparently value scoring above all else. you probably think jennings > cp3 because he has a higher career high and averages more points

now, let's move to defense. in iso situations, cp3 has been allowing .74 ppp to rose's 1.0 ppp. in spot up situations, cp3 is allowing .85 ppp to rose's .98 ppp. however, we can look at guarding the P&R ball handler and rose is better there. he allows .64 ppp and cp3 allows .85 ppp. with all that said, stats show they're pretty even defensively though in certain matchups, i'd give rose the edge.

all the game film for the cited plays are there. the notion that durant and cp3 only get their points coming off screens, transition and P&R is ludicrous and patently false
Got a source for those stats?

[nathanjizzle]

as a rose fan, i could care less who you girls think is the best "point guard":roll: we have the top 3 player thats forsure.

[9512]

I will be redundant and say CP3.

[guy]

I thought Rose was clearly better last year. I don't even know how it was a debate last year. This year though, its pretty even to me. Can't really pick one over the other. I guess I'd pick Rose just cause he's played more games but that doesn't mean much.

[greymatter]

as a rose fan, i could care less who you girls think is the best "point guard":roll: we have the top 3 player thats forsure.

Last I checked, D12, LBJ, and KD don't play for the Bulls. Fail.

[Go Getter]

it is nice that this feels like a legitimate discussion again. Chris Paul looking like the Chris Paul of old :applause:

that said, I think that Derrick Rose has more of an impact.

BUT if the clippers were to hire a better coach (I am telling you Mike D'Antoni would be perfect next year) who could utilize CP3's creativity off the dribble better, he would be incredibly dynamic.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[It's A VC3!!!]

CP3
Dwill
Rose

Giving the edge to Dwill considering when Brook Lopez returns, the game should be easier for him. Dwill's assists will go up, and scoring as well since defenders have to stay at home with Lopez, Dwill can go more one on one, and get easier shots.

On a side note, any debate that Bulls fans make is coimpletely understandable because Rose, and Deron are pretty much 99.9% identical in stats, except scoring where Rose edges Dwill out by 2 points. It's pretty much just fanism at this point.

*Edit: Last 5 games though is clear cut Dwill, he is averaging 30 ppg, and 9 apg, he is just scorching. Worth a mention.

[swi7ch]

Rubio

[Pushxx]

My list:

1. Derrick Rose
2. Chris Paul
3. Deron Williams
4. Rajon Rondo
5. Russell Westbrook
6. Steve Nash

[Jef]

I'm a Westbrook fan and have nothing against Rose, but right now Chris Paul is on a different level.

The efficiency of his steps that he uses to set up angles is masterful. The guy has insane levels of basketball instinct and is bar-none the most accurate passer as far as where the ball needs to be caught by a cutter or post man.

CP3 is constantly making the equivalent of back shoulder/in stride/away from the defender passes that NFL quarterbacks are usually more associated with.

[guy]

CP3
Dwill
Rose

Giving the edge to Dwill considering when Brook Lopez returns, the game should be easier for him. Dwill's assists will go up, and scoring as well since defenders have to stay at home with Lopez, Dwill can go more one on one, and get easier shots.

On a side note, any debate that Bulls fans make is coimpletely understandable because Rose, and Deron are pretty much 99.9% identical in stats, except scoring where Rose edges Dwill out by 2 points. It's pretty much just fanism at this point.

*Edit: Last 5 games though is clear cut Dwill, he is averaging 30 ppg, and 9 apg, he is just scorching. Worth a mention.

The Nets are 8-15. If Deron Williams is a superstar there's no way he should be leading that team to 8-15 regardless of how bad his teammates are unless he was dealing with significant injuries. I don't understand how anyone can say he compares to CP3 or Rose at this point. He might be the most overrated player in the league. If he keeps up what he's been doing the last 5 games, then it might be differnet. But he has not been great at all with the Nets overall.

[It's A VC3!!!]

The Nets are 8-15. If Deron Williams is a superstar there's no way he should be leading that team to 8-15 regardless of how bad his teammates are unless he was dealing with significant injuries. I don't understand how anyone can say he compares to CP3 or Rose at this point. He might be the most overrated player in the league. If he keeps up what he's been doing the last 5 games, then it might be differnet. But he has not been great at all with the Nets overall.

Have you seen the Nets roster? Aside from Williams we have to pray we will get production from someone else. If Morrow's shot isn't falling, he isn't prodcutive. Same goes with Farmar, and several other players. And that last line you said "Deron hasn't been great at all" Are you mentally retarded? His numbers are nearly identical to Rose's and Pauls, if that's not great for him then what the **** is? Please elaborate.

[Whoah10115]

The Nets are 8-15. If Deron Williams is a superstar there's no way he should be leading that team to 8-15 regardless of how bad his teammates are unless he was dealing with significant injuries. I don't understand how anyone can say he compares to CP3 or Rose at this point. He might be the most overrated player in the league. If he keeps up what he's been doing the last 5 games, then it might be differnet. But he has not been great at all with the Nets overall.



Consider he got off to a bad start and has acknowledged that and his pissy attitude. He has been beasting lately and the team is improving.


And elite players have bad seasons all the time.

[guy]

Have you seen the Nets roster? Aside from Williams we have to pray we will get production from someone else. If Morrow's shot isn't falling, he isn't prodcutive. Same goes with Farmar, and several other players. And that last line you said "Deron hasn't been great at all" Are you mentally retarded? His numbers are nearly identical to Rose's and Pauls, if that's not great for him then what the **** is? Please elaborate.

He's led them to 8-15, thats why he hasn't been great. Like I said, superstars should lead there teams to better then that, REGARDLESS OF ROSTER, unless they're also dealing with alot of injuries like Wade in 08 for example.

Numbers aren't everything. Numbers would mean Kevin Love is like the 2nd best player in the league. It doesn't mean they're pointless, but numbers are dependent alot on the situation.

[It's A VC3!!!]

He's led them to 8-15, thats why he hasn't been great. Like I said, superstars should lead there teams to better then that, REGARDLESS OF ROSTER, unless they're also dealing with alot of injuries like Wade in 08 for example.

Numbers aren't everything. Numbers would mean Kevin Love is like the 2nd best player in the league. It doesn't mean they're pointless, but numbers are dependent alot on the situation.

To be fair Deron is doing everything he can, and they are still 8-15. He did start slow, but his recent play sort of makes up for that. Last night against the Pistons, the Nets only had 8 available players. 2 are starters. Deron would need to average 40 ppg until Brook Lopez gets back, and they still wouldn't be a winning team. It's not fair for Deron to carry such a heavy burden. He is doing a great job leading.

[Clippersfan86]

i.r. beast posting more drivel? typical

i prefer facts so i cracked open synergy sports to see if what you're saying can be proven....

during their offensive sets, rose is the P&R ball handler in 38.4% of them while cp3 is at 35.2%. rose gets 1.02 ppp out of it and cp3 gets .99. so, in fact, rose has relied more on the P&R than cp3 this year. fact. so that negates your argument/observation

now, let's move to iso. cp3 isos 33.3% of the time to rose's 15.8%. cp3 scores on 1.17 ppp to rose's .84. fact.

let's recap. does cp3 use P&R more than rose? no. does cp3 iso more than rose? yes.

is i.r. beast full of bs? of course. you already got served up in the rubio thread. you apparently value scoring above all else. you probably think jennings > cp3 because he has a higher career high and averages more points

now, let's move to defense. in iso situations, cp3 has been allowing .74 ppp to rose's 1.0 ppp. in spot up situations, cp3 is allowing .85 ppp to rose's .98 ppp. however, we can look at guarding the P&R ball handler and rose is better there. he allows .64 ppp and cp3 allows .85 ppp. with all that said, stats show they're pretty even defensively though in certain matchups, i'd give rose the edge.

all the game film for the cited plays are there. the notion that durant and cp3 only get their points coming off screens, transition and P&R is ludicrous and patently false

Yup. People think he's living on PNR but he's NOT. He's actually not doing it enough. Last I checked those Sports Synergy stats there were a few things that stood out.

1. Chris Paul got more stops than any PG in the NBA on the ball and off the ball defensively.

2. Chris Paul is the most effective isolation in the NBA with an amazing conversion rate. Basically if he takes you 1 on 1... you get scored on.

3. Chris Paul has crunch time stats that are pretty much unmatched this season. Plain and simple he's the most clutch player in the game right now.

[truhooper]

cp3

[guy]

To be fair Deron is doing everything he can, and they are still 8-15. He did start slow, but his recent play sort of makes up for that. Last night against the Pistons, the Nets only had 8 available players. 2 are starters. Deron would need to average 40 ppg until Brook Lopez gets back, and they still wouldn't be a winning team. It's not fair for Deron to carry such a heavy burden. He is doing a great job leading.

No one is saying he's a bad player. I just think its highly doubtful that Rose or CP3 in the same situation wouldn't at least be leading them to contend for the playoffs i.e. around .500

[Droid101]

No one is saying he's a bad player. I just think its highly doubtful that Rose or CP3 in the same situation wouldn't at least be leading them to contend for the playoffs i.e. around .500
Did you see the Hornets roster last season? After David West went down, it was trash, utter trash. And Chris Paul made them respectable in the Western conference.

[It's A VC3!!!]

Yup. People think he's living on PNR but he's NOT. He's actually not doing it enough. Last I checked those Sports Synergy stats there were a few things that stood out.

1. Chris Paul got more stops than any PG in the NBA on the ball and off the ball defensively.

2. Basically if he takes you 1 on 1... you get scored on.

3. Chris Paul has crunch time stats that are pretty much unmatched this season. Plain and simple he's the most clutch player in the game right now.

Your a Clippers fan, I would expect your fanism level to be a 10/10, but the part I bolded can be said for CP3,Dwill, and Rose, and there's no clear cut winner to that in my opinion. All 3 can dominate evenly in an iso situation.

[Clippersfan86]

Your a Clippers fan, I would expect your fanism level to be a 10/10, but the part I bolded can be said for CP3,Dwill, and Rose, and there's no clear ct winner to that in my opinion. All 3 can dominate evenly in an iso situation.

Go do research. Chris Paul is the most effective isolation scorer in the game. Numbers prove it.

[It's A VC3!!!]

Go do research. Chris Paul is the most effective isolation scorer in the game. Numbers prove it.

He is a great player. I love CP3. I would probably even take him over Dwill, but in a iso situation I could put those 3 names in a hat, pick one, and be happy with either name.

[guy]

Did you see the Hornets roster last season? After David West went down, it was trash, utter trash. And Chris Paul made them respectable in the Western conference.

I wasn't criticizing CP3?

[Darius]

And I guessed these numbers. Paul is consistently a slacker.

You need to take into account that he was rehabbing a major injury last year...

[Scholar]

CP3 is definitely the best pure PG in the league, but I think you have to look at it like this:

Replace CP3 with Rose, & the Clippers are still one of the top teams in the Western Conference.

Replace Rose with CP3, & the Bulls becomes the New Orleans Hornets.

That's no jab at CP3. I just think Rose is the better player, even if CP3 is the better ball distributor.

[Fudge]

Its Chris Paul for almost 5 years now...
:oldlol:

Typical biased response. In 08-09 he was, prior to that, no.

[k0kakw0rld]

I said it multiple times. Derrick Rose is not a PG he is more like a 2 Guard.

Deron Williams is the best Pg in the league, he is just having a bad season. But he is the best pg in the nba.

[e-LIMON-ators]

Man you guys all have such short memories. Did you forget the bulls-clippers game where they were pretty even through 3 quarters but in the 4th, Rose totally dominated and proved who was the best pg in the game? If you watched that game you would know who the best pg in the game is.

Bill Simmons wrote an article about it too:

[QUOTE]When Chicago played the Clippers right after Christmas, Rose and Paul traded punches like heavyweights for three quarters. At least five or six times after Paul made a play, Rose demanded the inbounds pass and tore down the court to answer him. You could tell Rose had something to prove

[Cali Syndicate]

No one is saying he's a bad player. I just think its highly doubtful that Rose or CP3 in the same situation wouldn't at least be leading them to contend for the playoffs i.e. around .500

D-Will has nobody on his team. The second best player is Marshon Brooks.

No interior defense, no perimeter defense, no inside presence, some outside presence is all they really have.

Nets are struggling cause the roster is weak. Rose or CP3 would do no better.

[Cali Syndicate]

Did you see the Hornets roster last season? After David West went down, it was trash, utter trash. And Chris Paul made them respectable in the Western conference.

When West went down, they picked up Landry who is a very suitable PF.

They also still had Okafor and Ariza. Two very solid defenders. Defense can carry a lot of weight in basketball.

Even without West, that squad is still far better than the D-Will's supporting cast.

[EnoughSaid]

CP3 is on another level. If he had the takeover mentality Rose always has, he'd be easily putting up 30 a game. Dude has arguably one of the best midrange games in the NBA, and is automatic from 3 too.

[Clippersfan86]

Man you guys all have such short memories. Did you forget the bulls-clippers game where they were pretty even through 3 quarters but in the 4th, Rose totally dominated and proved who was the best pg in the game? If you watched that game you would know who the best pg in the game is.

Bill Simmons wrote an article about it too:



http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7525589/20-questions-part-2

Rose is the best pg in the league and has been for the past year and a half.

You apparently fail to realize this was the Clippers 2nd or 3rd game of the season right :oldlol: ? Clippers are a different animal now and CP3 knows his teammates better. I can't wait to play the Bulls again.

[Shade8780]

Derrick Rose. He's amazing :applause:

[k0kakw0rld]

D-Will has nobody on his team. The second best player is Marshon Brooks.

No interior defense, no perimeter defense, no inside presence, some outside presence is all they really have.

Nets are struggling cause the roster is weak. Rose or CP3 would do no better.
Finally someone with some brain.

[Fudge]

You apparently fail to realize this was the Clippers 2nd or 3rd game of the season right :oldlol: ? Clippers are a different animal now and CP3 knows his teammates better. I can't wait to play the Bulls again.
Yeah but it was a player vs. player matchup in that game answering each others shots back and forth. In the end, Rose won the matchup head to head. Simple as that.

[rfoster24]

The player who sits atop the standings with no other all-star on his team.

[Clippersfan86]

Yeah but it was a player vs. player matchup in that game answering each others shots back and forth. In the end, Rose won the matchup head to head. Simple as that.

No it isn't as simple as that. Chris didn't start shooting till the 2nd half. Now he knows what the team needs/expects AND knows his teammates better. Rose hit all the clutch shots... but the Bulls were winning by double digits most of game anyways so it's unfair to act like the H2H is relevant.

H2H doesn't mean jack when comparing players.

[Fudge]

No it isn't as simple as that. Chris didn't start shooting till the 2nd half. Now he knows what the team needs/expects AND knows his teammates better. Rose hit all the clutch shots... but the Bulls were winning by double digits most of game anyways so it's unfair to act like the H2H is relevant.

H2H doesn't mean jack when comparing players.
No it is simple as that. Rose got the better of the matchup, you just fail to admit that. Or admit anything negative towards any clipper player rather. Loosen up. :oldlol:

[(e)]

Derrick Rose.

I'm not going to argue though because they're both on the same level and have different styles of play.

[Clippersfan86]

No it is simple as that. Rose got the better of the matchup, you just fail to admit that. Or admit anything negative towards any clipper player rather. Loosen up. :oldlol:

In general Rose and Williams give CP3 issues due to their huge size and strength advantage. It doesn't matter though. CP3 can still win 28 of 30 matchups in the NBA and be the best PG in the game. H2H is a very bad way to compare players in a team sport.

I mean the old Jordan vs Drexler matchups or Magic vs Bird matchups were all about bragging rights. Nobody would have said that the H2H between the players decided who was the better player in general.

[Clippersfan86]

Derrick Rose.

I'm not going to argue though because they're both on the same level and have different styles of play.

Which is essentially what I said. Rose on Clippers= worse team.... CP3 on Bulls= worse team. Completely different animals and their teams are built around both of them perfectly.

[Fudge]

In general Rose and Williams give CP3 issues due to their huge size and strength advantage. It doesn't matter though. CP3 can still win 28 of 30 matchups in the NBA and be the best PG in the game. H2H is a very bad way to compare players in a team sport.

I mean the old Jordan vs Drexler matchups or Magic vs Bird matchups were all about bragging rights. Nobody would have said that the H2H between the players decided who was the better player in general.
I never said that matchup alone determined who the better pg was. Just pointed out who clearly won the matchup :confusedshrug: But either way, I still stand by my choice and still think Rose is the better of the two. But like I said in the other threads, it's real close. And I pretty much agree on what you said about both teams being worst if they had switched. They both fit on their teams needs respectively.

[Clippersfan86]

I never said that matchup alone determined who the better pg was. Just pointed out who clearly won the matchup :confusedshrug: But either way, I still stand by my choice and still think Rose is the better of the two. But like I said in the other threads, it's real close. And I pretty much agree on what you said about both teams being worst if they had switched. They both fit on their teams needs respectively.

Yes. Rose outplayed CP3. Period... I even said it during and after that game. :cheers:

[StateOfMind12]

:oldlol:

Typical biased response. In 08-09 he was, prior to that, no.
Who was the best PG in '07-'08 when CP3 was 2nd in the MVP voting that season?

Paul was the best PG in the NBA in '07-'08, '08-'09, and so far this season '11-'12.

-'09-'10 it was between Deron and Nash because of CP3's injury.
-'10-'11 it was Rose because of CP3 was never 100% even though eh played like 70+ games that season.

[Alamo]

The player who sits atop the standings with no other all-star on his team.

I agree with this. Chris Paul is the best PG but Derrick Rose is just a baller, his competitiveness is unrivaled. Chris Paul really needs other players for him to shine.

[Fudge]

Who was the best PG in '07-'08 when CP3 was 2nd in the MVP voting that season?

Paul was the best PG in the NBA in '07-'08, '08-'09, and so far this season '11-'12.

-'09-'10 it was between Deron and Nash because of CP3's injury.
-'10-'11 it was Rose because of CP3 was never 100% even though eh played like 70+ games that season.
That is what i meant. Should've made it more clear. In the 07-08 AND 08-09 seasons, he was the best point guard.

07-08-09 - Paul
10 - Rose
11-12 - Rose with CP hovering right behind him.

[T.O.RapsJays]

It really depends on the type of PG that they both are, and the offense around them. I myself could not come up with a good argument to decisively say that one of them is the better PG.

I am glad however that people are putting up legit arguments. Anyone that says "easily" is either biased, stupid, or trolling. IMO a decent argument can be made for both, and the rebuttal is likely depending on your stance of who is the best player or PG.

IMO Paul is the better PG this season, but not taking away anything from Rose, as they're both having great seasons. In terms of who is more important to their team, my answer is Rose, but that is not to take away from the importance that CP has to his team. Seeing as they both play different styles makes it harder to judge who is the better PG. Rose is probably a better scorer and CP looking to run the offense more.

Feel free to disagree with my opinions, as a case could be made for either.

[blacknapalm]

Got a source for those stats?

www.mysynergysports.com

type in their names. compare the fields. all the percentages are backed up by plays that are then clickable and can be watched (aka game film). using only game film makes it about as objective as one can

[FatComputerNerd]

Kyrie Irving

[outbreak]

Ish Smith :P

[Chicago Brawls]

Best player that plays PG position: Derrick Rose.

Best PG steryotype: Chris Paul or Deron Williams.

Sorry, but I just don't see Paul or Williams taking on the Heat all by themselves like Derrick does.

[Clippersfan86]

Best player that plays PG position: Derrick Rose.

Best PG steryotype: Chris Paul or Deron Williams.

Sorry, but I just don't see Paul or Williams taking on the Heat all by themselves like Derrick does.

Not that I don't like Rose... but how did taking on the Heat by himself go? Didn't Rose shoot like 32 percent and get held way below his averages by the Heat in the playoffs? I watched it and he looked defeated and like he couldn't do crap.

Chris Paul absolutely TORCHED the Heat this season and took over in the 4th quarter for the Clippers win.

[TheNaturalWR]

Chris Paul and I'm a Bulls fan. As a matter of fact, I might go as far as saying Chris Paul is the best player in the league.

Yeah.... You went too far. :lol

[Kiddlovesnets]

Kyrie Irving

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Droid101]

Chris Paul really needs other players for him to shine.
LOL someone hasn't seen Chris Paul's iso stats.

I'll just get to the point: when Chris Paul decides to iso, he usually scores.

[Ikill]

Rose Williams Paul one of them

[Kiddlovesnets]

Rose Williams Paul one of them

And this should be the order:
1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Derrick Rose

[Dizzle-2k7]

Derrick Rose by 10 miles..

No flopper will ever get my respect I dont care how good you are

[Clippersfan86]

Derrick Rose by 10 miles..

No flopper will ever get my respect I dont care how good you are

Hey what ever happened with your Clippers suck predictions early in season? You've been MIA lately :oldlol: .

[Dizzle-2k7]

Hey what ever happened with your Clippers suck predictions early in season? You've been MIA lately :oldlol: .

NEVER said they would suck. My exact words were "they are not championship contenders" which you AGREED to.
:hammerhead:

[Kiddlovesnets]

Derrick Rose by 10 miles..

No flopper will ever get my respect I dont care how good you are

Chris Paul says hi.

[skan72]

Chris Paul (healthy). He does everything. He makes his teammates so much better, he'll get you a bucket whenever you need it, his intangibles are through the roof, he's a ballhawk. What more can you say? No one else.

[crisscutfries]

Since no one said it... I'll say it. RONDO!

Before Pierce came back, Rondo was doing like 20 pts a game, 11+ assist, 10 rebounds? My list goes Rondo>Rose>Westbrook>>>> anyone else

[k0kakw0rld]

Best at each position:

PG: Chris Paul
SG: Derrick Rose
SF: Lebron James
PF: Kevin Love
C: Dwight Howard



















I keed.
You are wrong about 4 positions. more like

PG Deron Williams
SG Kobe Bryant
SF LeBron James
PF Chris Bosh
C Andrew Bynum

[k0kakw0rld]

CP3 for now...


Better shooter, court vision, play making, decision making, better leader and much more clutch. Only problem with CP3 is staying healthy.

Top 3 PG

D-Will
Paul
Rose

D-will is a better shooter than both Rose & Paul, he is a better defender. I don't think D-Will was ever afraid to create a shot in front of LeBron James. Something Rose has failed to do. Rose is a poor decision making pg. D-Will made boozer an all star caliber something Rose has failed to do. Rose do not run the pick & roll very well. He is not a better passer than Paul or D-Will. Deron is a better shooter, passer, scorer, defender than both Paul & Rose. What more can i say?

[k0kakw0rld]

Best player that plays PG position: Derrick Rose.

Best PG steryotype: Chris Paul or Deron Williams.

Sorry, but I just don't see Paul or Williams taking on the Heat all by themselves like Derrick does.
Reason why Bulls keeps losing. That is pretty much what they want. Let Rose score, don't let him make his teammates better by passing the ball. :applause:

Rose vs Miami Heat reminds me of LeBron James (Cavs) vs Celtics couple years ago.

[pegasus]

As a point guard? Paul

as a player? Rose
This.:applause:

[Euroleague]

Steve Nash

[Tenchi Ryu]

Reason why Bulls keeps losing

What the FUKK are you talking about?

[bokes15]

Chris Paul (healthy). He does everything. He makes his teammates so much better, he'll get you a bucket whenever you need it, his intangibles are through the roof, he's a ballhawk. What more can you say? No one else.
This. I've always thought that while D-Rose CAN play the pg position, he's not a prototypical point guard. He's almost like a mini-Lebron.

[04mzwach]

Right now, CP3. CP3 is a real point gaurd anyway. I cast my vote for CP3. Thanks.

[DaHeezy]

The both aren't the best PG.
But Derrick Rose is the better player

[Pointguard]

All the work ethic and drive in the world can never substitute for IQ and decision making ability.

Look at it this way. If Paul had Rose's aggression, focus and energy he's the best player in the league. At Rose's speed and his aggression, a cerebral game means a lot less. An intuitive game means much more than an IQ game.


Rose might improve the latter over experience, but he'll never have elite PG skills or score at elite efficiency relative to his position. Sadly for Bulls fans, reality says that score first PGs with average true PG skills are never mentioned along with the greatest at the position.
Sadly for Bulls fans, reality says that nobody at 22 had won the MVP. Sadly for Bulls fans, reality says no other team, which had their young pointguard as their only star player, lead the league in wins despite there being super teams around. Sadly for Bulls fans Nash averaged half the number of assist Rose did at 22 years of age. And Rose out assisted a 22 year old Stockton as well.

In Rose second year he scored at elite efficiency relative to his position. His role however is to break the defense down primarily, and this lets the elite rebounders get a crack at the basket.

[ThatsGame]

Derrick Rose tonight : 32 pts on 46%, 13 AST, 1 STL.

Lets see what CP3 does..

[hkfosho]

Derrick Rose tonight : 32 pts on 46%, 13 AST, 1 STL.

Lets see what CP3 does..

should be 48% if you don't count the half court hail mary he put up.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Derrick Rose tonight : 32 pts on 46%, 13 AST, 1 STL.

Lets see what CP3 does..
Yep, but I told you, without those dumb hail mary's and buzzer beater 3s, it would be higher

[Celtics4ever]

CP3 is the most overrated player in the era. The guy is a role player, but people overrate him like he's a top 5 player. He is top 10, maybe, but no where near top 5. Please stop the overrating.

[Whoah10115]

So he's a role player and maybe top 10? Top notch shit right there.

[gyu]

Derrick Rose tonight : 32 pts on 46%, 13 AST, 1 STL.

Lets see what CP3 does..
Chris Paul put up 34 points 5 rebounds 11 assists 3 steals on 63% shooting yesterday (vs UTAH).
26 points 14 assists 2 steals on 75% shooting the game before (vs OKC).

[Tenchi Ryu]

Chris Paul put up 34 points 5 rebounds 11 assists 3 steals on 63% shooting yesterday (vs UTAH).
26 points 14 assists 2 steals on 75% shooting the game before (vs OKC).
His FG percentage is so high because he always gets excellent looks. Rose is always heavily contested, even at the perimeter. You can't just watch CP3 since they are so many other Offensive options. With the Bulls though, if they aren't hot and feeling confident, all you have to do is look at Rose.

[Jef]

CP3 is the most overrated player in the era. The guy is a role player, but people overrate him like he's a top 5 player. He is top 10, maybe, but no where near top 5. Please stop the overrating.


???

I'm not a Chris Paul fan, but he is the top PG in the league right now and high up in my overall player rankings.

1. Lebron
2. Dwight
3. Durant
4. Wade (when he is fully healthy i'll be fine with him here)
5. CP3
6. Rose

[ThatsGame]

Derrick Rose tonight : 32 pts on 46%, 13 AST, 1 STL.

Lets see what CP3 does..

Chris Paul tonight : 15 pts on 66%, 9 AST, 1 STL


:confusedshrug:

[I.R.Beast]

Chris Paul tonight : 15 pts on 66%, 9 AST, 1 STL


:confusedshrug:
blow out loss...LMAO....


Look people omparing Cp3s FG% to derrick Rose's is asinine....Paul scores priarily off of PnR, he's not contested nearly as much as D-rose, he generally gets open shots whenever he shoots. That like comparing Bryant and James knowing that 90% of Kobe points come off jumpers and 1/3 of LBJ points come from inside.

[no pun intended]

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/1035379/gyi0064325215_extra_large_extra_large.jpg
Turning 38 in a few days, and still rolling those efficient numbers.

[I.R.Beast]

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/1035379/gyi0064325215_extra_large_extra_large.jpg
Turning 38 in a few days, and still rolling those efficient numbers.
still aint bin winning shit since amare and crew left.... He's a PnR pg i would hope he can be efficient. it;s make the game really easy.

[Celtics4ever]

???

I'm not a Chris Paul fan, but he is the top PG in the league right now and high up in my overall player rankings.
1. Lebron
2. Dwight
3. Durant
4. Wade (when he is fully healthy i'll be fine with him here)
5. CP3
6. Rose

Is this list a joke? CP3 is a role player. He barely sees double teams, half of his points come from uncontested jumpers he shoots because opposing defender is more worried about his teammates. Imagine if players like LeBron, Rose, Kobe, Durant had open looks like CP3 gets. You can't compare role players to leaders of a team.


I got:
1.Rose
2.LeBron
3.Durant
4.Kobe
5.Dwight

[Celtics4ever]

Chris Paul put up 34 points 5 rebounds 11 assists 3 steals on 63% shooting yesterday (vs UTAH).
26 points 14 assists 2 steals on 75% shooting the game before (vs OKC).

What is your point? So you put stats of 2 games? Rose puts up those numbers almost every other game and on top of that he has the full pressure on him during the whole game. CP3 is a role player that feeds off of his teammates success. If his teammates have bad games, cp3 will have a bad game, if his teammates are good, cp3 is good. He is a role player, he can't lead a team. He needs his teammates to be effective for him to get open looks, and he only shoots when he is open or else he rather pass, almost like he doesnt want to mess up his efficiency.

This best PG thing was dead a long time ago. Rose is the best PG, been proven time and time again, let's move on to real arguments.

[Tenchi Ryu]

This best PG thing was dead a long time ago. Rose is the best PG, been proven time and time again, let's move on to real arguments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Me_DR3HmI&feature=related
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[blacknapalm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Me_DR3HmI&feature=related
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

that's your evidence? :roll:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzWAbufF7gU

works both ways

obligatory :bowdown:

iverson crossed jordan over. therefore, iverson > jordan. what are you, 12?

[Tenchi Ryu]

...He didn't break his ankles though.

And who said anything about evidence, was just a good play showing his PG skills.

[Pointguard]

that's your evidence? :roll:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzWAbufF7gU

works both ways

obligatory :bowdown:

That was the beginning of the end. The 4th quarter came and... .

[I.R.Beast]

that's your evidence? :roll:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzWAbufF7gU

works both ways

obligatory :bowdown:

iverson crossed jordan over. therefore, iverson > jordan. what are you, 12?

lol...all that dribbling didn't ever work..Rose kept pace with him the entire way....he made a good layup with rose bodying him though.

[Pointguard]

CP3 takes off waaaaay too many games. CP3 plays like 40% of the games over the last year. He mentally can't get up for every game. Like the mental battery dies out or something. In the playoffs he seems more focused but he's got that handicap going on. His leadership in games where he slacks really affects his team.... CP3 is questionable in too many games. CP3 needs consistency to get his spot back.

I said this before last night... and he hasn't played every game and the team hasn't hit the road yet - they only played five games outside of their arena. And this is already the 5th game where he lost enthusiasm in 15 games he's played in. Could you imagine if he recieved the attention Rose gets?

[I.R.Beast]

I said this before last night... and he hasn't played every game and the team hasn't hit the road yet - they only played five games outside of their arena. And this is already the 5th game where he lost enthusiasm in 15 games he's played in. Could you imagine if he recieved the attention Rose gets?


last season he had 40 games where he didnt have more than 15 points and 14 of those games he didn't crack 10 points...... He is very inconsistent.


Why have the bulls won more games than the clippers have played?.....Also, i did not realize that the clippers only played 5 games away from home.. Who made these schedules?....

[GOBB]

CP3 is the best PG in the NBA.

[Millennium X]

Easily Rose. Remember when he kicked Paul's ass when they went head to head?

Paul is more selective with his shots and a slightly better passer but also has a much better p & r player to play with.

Rose is way more explosive and can impose is will on a game the way fat Chris Paul can't. See how fat Paul was on roller skates guarding Rose this year? I want the more dominant guy on my team.

Deron Williams isn't even in the same league as either guy anyway, so anyone mentioning him knows nothing.:lol

[I.R.Beast]

Easily Rose. Remember when he kicked Paul's ass when they went head to head?

Paul is more selective with his shots and a slightly better passer but also has a much better p & r player to play with.

Rose is way more explosive and can impose is will on a game the way fat Chris Paul can't. See how fat Paul was on roller skates guarding Rose this year? I want the more dominant guy on my team.

Deron Williams isn't even in the same league as either guy anyway, so anyone mentioning him knows nothing.:lol
Don't be ridiculous.... Deron is Playing with Trash and has Been beasting the least 10 games.... He's just on a horrendous team at the moment. He's better than paul too.

[Glide2keva]

Don't be ridiculous.... Deron is Playing with Trash and has Been beasting the least 10 games.... He's just on a horrendous team at the moment. He's better than paul too.
This.

D-Will is still at the top when it comes to PG's. Him and Rose can go from 1 to 2 on any given night. CP360 is now a flop artist who prtects his FG% by never taking shots that are wide open and just dribbling for 20 seconds looking to pass when he has a good shot.

[GOBB]

This.

D-Will is still at the top when it comes to PG's. Him and Rose can go from 1 to 2 on any given night. CP360 is now a flop artist who prtects his FG% by never taking shots that are wide open and just dribbling for 20 seconds looking to pass when he has a good shot.

Incredibly dumb thing said. So now CP3 FG% is high because he sets out to protect it. And if it was bad then say he is inefficient and a chucker? Is that how FG% works in your world when it involves a player that is ranked against someone you root for (Rose)? Because if I'm offbase, I want you to sit there and explain why you pulled that from your ass.

More proof how annoying some Bulls fans can be.

[I.R.Beast]

This.

D-Will is still at the top when it comes to PG's. Him and Rose can go from 1 to 2 on any given night. CP360 is now a flop artist who prtects his FG% by never taking shots that are wide open and just dribbling for 20 seconds looking to pass when he has a good shot.
I despise the way Paul over dribbles. In a blow out last night he only took 9 shots?.....really Paul?... your team is losing and u took 9 shots..????...He seems afraid to take risks scoring the ball unless he's afforded a wide open look. He seems to play the Turnover game.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

This.

D-Will is still at the top when it comes to PG's. Him and Rose can go from 1 to 2 on any given night. CP360 is now a flop artist who prtects his FG% by never taking shots that are wide open and just dribbling for 20 seconds looking to pass when he has a good shot.

:hammerhead:

Only Bulls fans, man.

[I.R.Beast]

Incredibly dumb thing said. So now CP3 FG% is high because he sets out to protect it. And if it was bad then say he is inefficient and a chucker? Is that how FG% works in your world when it involves a player that is ranked against someone you root for (Rose)? Because if I'm offbase, I want you to sit there and explain why you pulled that from your ass.

More proof how annoying some Bulls fans can be.

it's high because all he does is shoot open jumpers(which isn tbad) but how many games out of the year is he gonna have open jumper all game?... while it boosts his efficiency, but what about the possessions his teammates aren't getting open and he is not getting open looks consistently, what then?....He has a game like last night where he only shoots 9 times.

Personally i don't think shooting 52% fg is worth your team best player(supposedly) playing as passively as paul does most nights. What good is 50% shooting if your best guy is shooting it with only 10 shots?.... i

[East_Stone_Ya]

to be the best PG in the league you have to be a elite passer and good at running plays. So my pick would be C.Paul

[D-Wade316]

This.

D-Will is still at the top when it comes to PG's. Him and Rose can go from 1 to 2 on any given night. CP360 is now a flop artist who prtects his FG% by never taking shots that are wide open and just dribbling for 20 seconds looking to pass when he has a good shot.
:facepalm

[Clocian-IGN]

to be the best PG in the league you have to be a elite passer and good at running plays. So my pick would be C.Paul

nope.

to be the best pg you have to run the team and make plays. and nobody does it more or better than drose.

[Pointguard]

last season he had 40 games where he didnt have more than 15 points and 14 of those games he didn't crack 10 points...... He is very inconsistent.


Why have the bulls won more games than the clippers have played?.....Also, i did not realize that the clippers only played 5 games away from home.. Who made these schedules?....

At home 10 and 3. Road 3 and 4. One was a Laker game the other Paul didn't play in.

[East_Stone_Ya]

nope.

to be the best pg you have to run the team and make plays. and nobody does it more or better than drose.


oo really? Rose making plays? demanding a screen and then storming to the paint for the tear or layup:rolleyes:

[TheMan]

The only thing I'll say is, Rose kicks DWill's and CP3's ass whenever he goes up against them.

[Clocian-IGN]

oo really? Rose making plays? demanding a screen and then storming to the paint for the tear or layup:rolleyes:

yup. just in case ya didn't know, when the team scores(doesn't matter who)that is a successful play. and cp3's one assist per game over rose(who's been playing without his starting sg and his starting sf)does not make up for his passive play making.

This chart from last year further proves my point how much play making rose does for the team, while cp3 on the other hand isn't even on the chart from his mvp year :violin:

http://www.teamrankings.com/blog/nba/how-involved-is-derrick-rose-in-the-chicago-bulls-offense

[Pointguard]

it's high because all he does is shoot open jumpers(which isn tbad) but how many games out of the year is he gonna have open jumper all game?... while it boosts his efficiency, but what about the possessions his teammates aren't getting open and he is not getting open looks consistently, what then?....He has a game like last night where he only shoots 9 times.

Personally i don't think shooting 52% fg is worth your team best player(supposedly) playing as passively as paul does most nights. What good is 50% shooting if your best guy is shooting it with only 10 shots?....

He seems afraid to take risks scoring the ball unless he's afforded a wide open look.


To me that's the difference. Rose is going to push for the win in every game. And there are only three players that do this day in and day out (Lebron, Kobe, Rose). DH, Durant and CP3 they coast a noticeable size more than those three and take random days off. DH has a lot of days where he doesn't look fully integrated into the team that is built around him. Westbrook gets a lot of attention because he's into pushing the issue more so than Durant. Watch the dynamics if this continues as its already in effect.

In the 4th quarter of this year and last year, Rose has succeeded in winning more games because of this quality (push for the win) than anybody else. He's been key in more 4th quarters than anybody else and he's missed 5 games out of like 25. This year he's has more wisdom in conserving himself, but he now has to push the issue, because Deng and Ham need healing.

I don't see room for an argument that CP3 impacts more games than Rose over the course of the year - its not really that close. He is a better pure point guard though. I will add that Deron Williams is a better pure point as well. Rose is a better player right now.

[I.R.Beast]

To me that's the difference. Rose is going to push for the win in every game. And there are only three players that do this day in and day out (Lebron, Kobe, Rose). DH, Durant and CP3 they coast a noticeable size more than those three and take random days off. DH has a lot of days where he doesn't look fully integrated into the team that is built around him. Westbrook gets a lot of attention because he's into pushing the issue more so than Durant. Watch the dynamics if this continues as its already in effect.

In the 4th quarter of this year and last year, Rose has succeeded in winning more games because of this quality (push for the win) than anybody else. He's been key in more 4th quarters than anybody else and he's missed 5 games out of like 25. This year he's has more wisdom in conserving himself, but he now has to push the issue, because Deng and Ham need healing.

I don't see room for an argument that CP3 impacts more games than Rose over the course of the year - its not really that close. He is a better pure point guard though. I will add that Deron Williams is a better pure point as well. Rose is a better player right now.

i agree with this..... And unfortunately being a better "pure point" doesn't hold any weight when the objective is to win games. Rose is listed as a PG and is the best player among pg Thus he is the best PG.

All this talk about Pure point etc. Paul is only averaging 1 more assisst a game than Rose, is it reall that serious?....

[M.V.W.]

i agree with this..... And unfortunately being a better "pure point" doesn't hold any weight when the objective is to win games. Rose is listed as a PG and is the best player among pg Thus he is the best PG.

All this talk about Pure point etc. Paul is only averaging 1 more assist a game than Rose, is it reall that serious?....

You're right on this, but I think people conflate best player with best player at a position. Rose's play is a function of his team's situation - they lack a shooting guard who's an offensive threat so he has to be the leading scorer. I won't front - I prefer a pure point, which is not just about how many assists they get but also how they run the offense.

[Bigsmoke]

it's high because all he does is shoot open jumpers(which isn tbad) but how many games out of the year is he gonna have open jumper all game?... while it boosts his efficiency, but what about the possessions his teammates aren't getting open and he is not getting open looks consistently, what then?....He has a game like last night where he only shoots 9 times.

Personally i don't think shooting 52% fg is worth your team best player(supposedly) playing as passively as paul does most nights. What good is 50% shooting if your best guy is shooting it with only 10 shots?.... i

and thats why Chris Paul averages 19ppg? 4th of all PGs in the NBA!!! :rolleyes:

I dont know how anybody ignore dudes stats.

19ppg 9.1 assists on 53% shooting and 47%from threes, turned the culture around for a franchise.... that sounds like the best PG in the NBA

how many PG u know can average over 9 assists a game and only commit 2 turnovers a game?

[I.Malcolm]

The only thing I'll say is, Rose kicks DWill's and CP3's ass whenever he goes up against them.
Quote for truth.

[imdaman99]

The only thing I'll say is, Rose kicks DWill's and CP3's ass whenever he goes up against them.
yeah? and what did he do against westbrook and okc?
my point is, just because you win the individual matchup does not mean you are the better pg

[Bigsmoke]

yeah? and what did he do against westbrook and okc?
my point is, just because you win the individual matchup does not mean you are the better pg

or even Curry
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=curryst01&p2=rosede01

but yeah. Rose and CP3 are the 2 best and thats a fact

[Jef]

Is this list a joke? CP3 is a role player. He barely sees double teams, half of his points come from uncontested jumpers he shoots because opposing defender is more worried about his teammates. Imagine if players like LeBron, Rose, Kobe, Durant had open looks like CP3 gets. You can't compare role players to leaders of a team.


I got:
1.Rose
2.LeBron
3.Durant
4.Kobe
5.Dwight


In post 156 you call CP3 both a role player and "maybe top 10" player. You are off your rocker if you don't consider CP3 the leader of the Clippers. He operates on a different level in terms of setting angles. He literally gets his teammates open by his own movement with the ball. Rose is incredible and there is no reason why he won't one day be the best PG in the game (if not the best overall player), but calling Chris Paul a role player is preposterous.

Not to mention the fact that he doesnt just get open shots because of his teammates. Chris Paul is an absolute master in the pick and roll. Defenses are either forced to sag off him (fearing him going to the basket) or the subtleties of his movement force them to go under screens. I'm not a huge CP3 fan, but the guy is the best right now.

[imdaman99]

or even Curry
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=curryst01&p2=rosede01

but yeah. Rose and CP3 are the 2 best and thats a fact
:eek: was it even curry defending him? he doesn't strike me as a defensive specialist lol

[East_Stone_Ya]

yup. just in case ya didn't know, when the team scores(doesn't matter who)that is a successful play. and cp3's one assist per game over rose(who's been playing without his starting sg and his starting sf)does not make up for his passive play making.

This chart from last year further proves my point how much play making rose does for the team, while cp3 on the other hand isn't even on the chart from his mvp year :violin:

http://www.teamrankings.com/blog/nba/how-involved-is-derrick-rose-in-the-chicago-bulls-offense

still the duty of the PG is to run the team and get your teammates involved in the offense, that is an area where Rose isn't as effective as Paul is.

[Tenchi Ryu]

still the duty of the PG is to run the team and get your teammates involved in the offense, that is an area where Rose isn't as effective as Paul is.
You're not gonna get your teammates involved if they aren't knocking down shots. Simple as that. Lets see what CP3 does when he constantly PNR Boozer, and he misses. Lets see if he'll keep dishing him the ball.

[East_Stone_Ya]

You're not gonna get your teammates involved if they aren't knocking down shots. Simple as that. Lets see what CP3 does when he constantly PNR Boozer, and he misses. Lets see if he'll keep dishing him the ball.

i am pretty sure Paul would continue to give him the ball if he is open because he is a pass first PG.

[Tenchi Ryu]

i am pretty sure Paul would continue to give him the ball if he is open because he is a pass first PG.
And they would continue to lose. That's what makes Rose a good leader. If his teammates are in rhythm, doing their part, they get good looks all the time and he only closes the 4th. But if they are having a cold night, instead of giving them the ball, he'll just take over until he gets the incentive somebody is ready to provide offense.

He's gonna do whatever it takes to win.

[Bigsmoke]

And they would continue to lose. That's what makes Rose a good leader. If his teammates are in rhythm, doing their part, they get good looks all the time and he only closes the 4th. But if they are having a cold night, instead of giving them the ball, he'll just take over until he gets the incentive somebody is ready to provide offense.

He's gonna do whatever it takes to win.

you steady throwing shots at Chris :lol

dude playing with one leg ****ing carried the Hornets to the playoffs. They pretty much have the same roster as they did last year without Paul and tell me how they doing without him!

I perfer Rose over Paul because he can stay healthy. I watch both PG alot especially Rose since i live in Chicago "watch Bulls games for free" and i dont think he can single-handely take over game like Chris does. When was the last time a PG played as well as Chris did in the 2008 playoffs. :bowdown:

CP3 is dat *****

[East_Stone_Ya]

And they would continue to lose. That's what makes Rose a good leader. If his teammates are in rhythm, doing their part, they get good looks all the time and he only closes the 4th. But if they are having a cold night, instead of giving them the ball, he'll just take over until he gets the incentive somebody is ready to provide offense.

He's gonna do whatever it takes to win.

you are too much of a Rose homer to see the bigger picture...but don't worry i respect your opinion

[Tenchi Ryu]

I don't be trying to downplay CP3 or anything, I know he cold lol. In fact, I've even said its so close that I understand why people would choose him over Rose. But what gets retarded is when people start using the CP3 over Rose by a mile shit. Its really close....REALLY close.

[arifgokcen]

As much as i like rose,cp3 is just better.The way he performs in clutch the way he controls the pace the game,i am amazed by his ability.Everyone says kobe is the guy i want the game on the line,actually i would want cp3 not kobe.Thats not a knock on rose.If paul manages to stay healthy,he can average 23-25 ppg
5rpg 11-12apg 3spg.This averages are insane.But he has this ability.

[chips93]

still the duty of the PG is to run the team and get your teammates involved in the offense, that is an area where Rose isn't as effective as Paul is.

the role of a basketball player is to help your team wins games

rose helps his team wins games, so does cp3, they just do it in different ways.

both very effective


Everyone says kobe is the guy i want the game on the line,actually i would want cp3 not kobe.

totally agree.

if i were doing a draft, of every player in the league, and i had to make a team to just pay a 2 min game. id take cp3 first.

he has the willingness and the ability to make the perfect play every time.



Thats not a knock on rose.If paul manages to stay healthy,he can average 23-25 ppg
5rpg 11-12apg 3spg.This averages are insane.But he has this ability.

come on

nobody in nba history has averaged those numbers

[Pointguard]

And they would continue to lose. That's what makes Rose a good leader. If his teammates are in rhythm, doing their part, they get good looks all the time and he only closes the 4th. But if they are having a cold night, instead of giving them the ball, he'll just take over until he gets the incentive somebody is ready to provide offense.

He's gonna do whatever it takes to win.

The funny thing is that Rose would have more assist per game if he wasn't taking over the fourth quarter. And CP3 has some of the surest hands in the sport for big men in the game on his team. I think CP3 is one of the best set up men, but if Rose was a set up man for four quarters he'd definitely would have more assist. Rose's game has had to change to offense in the fourth quarter because of injuries. I think both guys can supply both. CP3 might step up and carry the load. Then again, he might not. Rose is always willing.

[Celtics4ever]

or even Curry
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=curryst01&p2=rosede01

but yeah. Rose and CP3 are the 2 best and thats a fact

Shlut up you hood rat c0ck sucking piece of shlt. You have no credibility on this board. You jump on a different bandwagon every year and you lick LeBron a$$ on the low key.

CP3 is the most overrated player of our era.

[longtime lurker]

Last night's game against the Knicks shows why Rose is the better point guard than Chris Paul. He took over in the 4th, was decisive and exerted his will on the game. I got the Isiah Thomas vibe watching him. Too many people get caught up in the stats and bullshit efficiency give me the guy that wins.

[Droid101]

Last night's game against the Knicks shows why Rose is the better point guard than Chris Paul. He took over in the 4th,
Someone doesn't watch the Clippers much.

[longtime lurker]

Someone doesn't watch the Clippers much.

You're right I dont' watch a lot of Clippers games unfortunately, but Chris Paul sometimes plays passive. That's the biggest criticism of him that even Clippers fans have.

[Droid101]

You're right I dont' watch a lot of Clippers games unfortunately, but Chris Paul sometimes plays passive. That's the biggest criticism of him that even Clippers fans have.
During the first three quarters, yes. But in crunch time, he gets buckets. He's like the bizzarro-Lebron.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Someone doesn't watch the Clippers much.
Apparently you, CP3 has not been consistent with his 4th quarter closures...at all.

[Noyze]

In the playoffs,

Shut down Rose and you mostly shutdown the entire Bulls team (he's their only real playmaker, top scorer and assist man)

Shut down CP3 (if that's possible) and you take away one of the Clippers playmakes and their second leading scorer.

Rose could be a better player (up for debate), but he's not a better point guard. Stop kidding youselves, Rose is a Scorer with great passing skills, Paul is a Passer with great scoring skills.

[notatop29pg]

come on

nobody in nba history has averaged those numbers

08/09 CP3.... Missed by inches.

[gyu]

What is your point? So you put stats of 2 games? Rose puts up those numbers almost every other game and on top of that he has the full pressure on him during the whole game. CP3 is a role player that feeds off of his teammates success. If his teammates have bad games, cp3 will have a bad game, if his teammates are good, cp3 is good. He is a role player, he can't lead a team. He needs his teammates to be effective for him to get open looks, and he only shoots when he is open or else he rather pass, almost like he doesnt want to mess up his efficiency.

This best PG thing was dead a long time ago. Rose is the best PG, been proven time and time again, let's move on to real arguments.
What was the other guy's point of posting Derrick Rose's stats from yesterday? Why are you going off on me? I'm just showing that Chris Paul has had a couple good games as well.
We've seen what CP3 can do with a bad team with the Hornets, when healthy he put up something like 22/5/12/3 on 50% shooting with the Hornets (who was on there? Bulls were easily better than his Hornets teams by the way).

Ps. are you really criticizing Chris paul for shooting only when he is open? Isn't taking open shots just smart? I mean Kobe gets a ton of hate because he'll take shots whether he is open or doubled, I don't see it being bad that Chris takes OPEN shots. He should be more aggressive consistently though, when he is, he is hands down the best PG in my opinion. I know you will disagree, but you can have your own opinion.

[ThatsGame]

In the playoffs,

Shut down Rose and you mostly shutdown the entire Bulls team (he's their only real playmaker, top scorer and assist man)

Shut down CP3 (if that's possible) and you take away one of the Clippers playmakes and their second leading scorer.

Rose could be a better player (up for debate), but he's not a better point guard. Stop kidding youselves, Rose is a Scorer with great passing skills, Paul is a Passer with great scoring skills.

Whats better tho? A passer averaging 9 assists per game, or a scorer averaging 8?

[RRR3]

Stop acting like Rose is miles better than CP3 at scoring. :facepalm You don't think CP3 could average more if he shot as much as Rose does? He's averaged as much as 22.8 PPG (IIRC) in a season before.

[Tenchi Ryu]

Rose is a Scorer with great passing skills, Paul is a Passer with great scoring skills.
True, but either one of these make great PGs. This "True PG" shit is garbage, and its insane people keep thinking that's the tell all way to be a great PG. Magic, Kenny, Mark Jackson have all commented how the new era of scoring PGs are a thing of beauty, an evolution of the PG.

All that matters is that a PG controls the pace of the game...THATS it. Doesn't matter HOW he gets that done, as long as HE'S controlling the flow of it. Both of them do just that. If Rose had a talented cast around him, he'd be more of a distributor like CP3. If CP3 was in Rose's position, he'd have to become a scorer.

[notatop29pg]

I like them both.

Difference is that CP3 has learnt that you can't win it all on your own. When Paul gets shutdown, he finds his team mates. When rose gets shut down, he keeps throwing himself at the defense.

A bad game from CP3 is 6-8 pts 11 assists. And 3/9 from the field. A bad game from rose is 23 pts 6 assists and 11/27 from the field. Sure, relentless attacking will get you plenty of games, but until you've got at least 3 other guys who YOU can get involved when your shut out, your not gonna go all the way.

Paul learnt that in the nuggets series.

[Celtics4ever]

ROSE : PPG: 23.5 FG%: 46% 3pt: 31% FT%: 84% RPG: 3.4 APG: 8.0

/Thread

[Tenchi Ryu]

Sure, relentless attacking will get you plenty of games, but until you've got at least 3 other guys who YOU can get involved when your shut out, your not gonna go all the way.


And the only reason that is happening is because 2 of those 3 guys are injured right now. Go look at some of Rose's stats earlier in the season, never above 25 points, and high assists numbers every time. Rip and Deng being out changes this, and he has to become the scorer from last year.

But when everyone is healthy, and balling...he's the perfect captain, usually not turning on MVP mode til the last 4 mins. Perfect example was the clippers game. Got everyone involved, and then shut it down in the closing mins.

Heat game and the Knicks game yesterday is an example of Rose being a top player in the league, but NOT being the championship contenders I know we are.

Rose is at his absolute best when he has the perfect balance of distributor and aggressor. Some of his BEST basketball he's ever played in his career I've seen this year when he does that.

[chazzy]

If Rose had a talented cast around him, he'd be more of a distributor like CP3. If CP3 was in Rose's position, he'd have to become a scorer.
What? What cast did CP3 have around him in NOH? They only played well in 08.

[Celtics4ever]

Bottom line is Rose is missing two of his best scorers for most of the season and he is still averaging 8 assists per game and Paul has a stacked team and he still is averaging 9. Rose is also scoring 23.5 points per game. Why are people even arguing against this stupidity? Rose is obviously the best player and it's not even close.

[Celtics4ever]

What? What cast did CP3 have around him in NOH? They only played well in 08.

Cp3 had a very good defensive team and on top of that West and Peja were killing it every night. CP3 wasn't the only one. There was a reason why Hornets made the playoffs, Hornets werent a one man team.

CP3 has been overrated his entire career

[Celtics4ever]

You put ROse on that Hornets team and the Hornets would make it to the WCF every year. WEST, PEJA, Rose and a great team defense which the Hornets had.

[notatop29pg]

Like I said, I like em both, they just go about it differently. CP3 played crash and bash pre knee injury too.. Look how far it got him.

People say he plays passive, I see it more as him trying to teach his team mates to step up like they will need to come playoffs. They miss an open J but he keeps feeding them. I think rose gets impatient and says "well f*ck it, I'll do it myself". CP3 says "son we ain't goin nowhere till you can hit the free points I'm hand feeding you, coz we r gonna need it come finals".

Anyway.. Just my opinion. They are both their own men and will find their own paths.

[Celtics4ever]

CP3 isn't even better than Melo or Amare. He needs to pass those guys first.

[Tenchi Ryu]

What? What cast did CP3 have around him in NOH? They only played well in 08.
I was talking about the Clippers....

But even with NO, like it was said above me, they still had decent defense, which is how they got to the playoffs, it was pretty much the EXACT same situation Rose was in last year.

[gyu]

droid101, chazzy, notatop29pg, rrr3

check your reps, hopefully you can help me out (i'm not asking for rep, that would be a bonus though but i explained my purpose) :cheers: :lol

[Tenchi Ryu]

Like I said, I like em both, they just go about it differently. CP3 played crash and bash pre knee injury too.. Look how far it got him.
A great example to look at is Rose and Westbrook. Westbrook plays this same crash and bash, going for contact, and even trying to dunk on people at times. This is the kind of play that can result in injuries in the future. Rose works with evasion as his main tool. He contorts and dodges so much to guarantee he receives as minimal contact as possible in the lane. Its the reason he can take on bigs, cause he successfully EVADES a lot more of contact from them then a normal person would.



People say he plays passive, I see it more as him trying to teach his team mates to step up like they will need to come playoffs. They miss an open J but he keeps feeding them. I think rose gets impatient and says "well f*ck it, I'll do it myself". CP3 says "son we ain't goin nowhere till you can hit the free points I'm hand feeding you, coz we r gonna need it come finals".

Anyway.. Just my opinion. They are both their own men and will find their own paths.
You bring up good points, but that's another difference between the two. CP3 might have that patience, but he's been known to be LAZY at times. Rose might get impatient, but that's what happens when you have that inner fire, that drive that is like a reincarnation of MJ's drive to win. Rose does NOT want to lose, and will do whatever he feels is possible to make that not happen.

[ThatsGame]

CP3 last night: 2 points on 11%, 7 AST, 3 STL

Rose last night: 26 points on 45%, 13 AST, 0 STL

CP3 making the case for the best point guard still?

[Teanett]

1. jeremy lin
2. derrick rose
3. ricky rubio
.
.
.
the rest

[DRose1899]

1. jeremy lin
2. derrick rose
3. ricky rubio
.
.
.
the rest
CP isn't cute enough for you? :lol

[I.R.Beast]

Like I said, I like em both, they just go about it differently. CP3 played crash and bash pre knee injury too.. Look how far it got him.

People say he plays passive, I see it more as him trying to teach his team mates to step up like they will need to come playoffs. They miss an open J but he keeps feeding them. I think rose gets impatient and says "well f*ck it, I'll do it myself". CP3 says "son we ain't goin nowhere till you can hit the free points I'm hand feeding you, coz we r gonna need it come finals".

Anyway.. Just my opinion. They are both their own men and will find their own paths.
how bout his teammates saying "Cp3 we wont make it to the finals if you don't be aggressive and shoot the ball"

[Teanett]

CP isn't cute enough for you? :lol
ok, you're right.

1. jeremy lin
2. cp3
3. ricky rubio
.
.
.
4. derrick rose

[alenleomessi]

1. Lin




2. Parker
3. Rose















199. Paul

[Bigsmoke]

Cp3 had a very good defensive team and on top of that West and Peja were killing it every night. CP3 wasn't the only one. There was a reason why Hornets made the playoffs, Hornets werent a one man team.

CP3 has been overrated his entire career

Did dude ran over your dog or something?