Kobe Playoff vs. Finals Scoring During Title Years

[bwink23]

PLAYOFFS

28.2ppg on 46.3%FG at 21.7 FG's per game.
33.6% 3FG at 4.1 attempts.
80.8%FT at 8.3 FT's per game.

FINALS

24.7ppg on 41.2%FG at 21.3 FG's per game.
31.4% 3FG at 4.0 attempts.
84.8%FT at 6.9 FT's per game.



THOUGHTS??

[cotdt]

he's just so tired by the finals after having to carry his team to that stage.

[PTB Fan]

Defenses play him better overall in that stage.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe is a good playoff performer, but terrible in the Finals (by his standards). Either the guy isn't all that he is cracked up to be, or he's really "chasing it" - and by that, I mean the Finals MVP. Could be both, not really sure.

[rule1223]

damn those stats
http://imnotatoy.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/8x4efr-jpg.gif

[StateOfMind12]

It doesn't help that he played against two all-time great defenses in the 2004 and 2008 NBA Finals.


bwink, you should post Kobe's finals stats in each of his Finals opposed to doing a total average.

[PTB Fan]

It doesn't help that he played against two all-time great defenses in the 2004 and 2008 NBA Finals.


bwink, you should post Kobe's finals stats in each of his Finals opposed to doing a total average.

OP should post LeBron finals stats :lol

[tpols]

His first three Finals weren't that competitive. LA played teams they were clearly better than and demolished them. Plus they were Shaq's first title shots so he got way more touches in the Finals.

And then in the last three Finals Kobe played top defenses in the league in each matchup. Number 1 ranked Orlando in 09 and an all time great defensive team in Boston in the other two years.

Every team Kobe played in the Finals was a defensive minded team.. 08-10 Celtics, 04 Pistons, 02 Nets, 01 Sixers, 09 Magic.. theyall relied on great D to win. He never got the Mavs in the Finals..

[Ronaldinho]

he's just so tired by the finals after having to carry his team to that stage.
This.Carrying Gasoft, Bynum one leg and Derek stupid Fisher must be pretty hard.

[bwink23]

It doesn't help that he played against two all-time great defenses in the 2004 and 2008 NBA Finals.


bwink, you should post Kobe's finals stats in each of his Finals opposed to doing a total average.


You can go to basketball-reference website and get each individual Finals stat line.

[inclinerator]

his freethrow percentage is higher

[StateOfMind12]

Kobe vs. 2000 Pacers
35.2 mpg, 15.6 ppg, 4.2 apg, 4.6 rpg, 1.0 spg, 1.4 bpg, 1.2 topg, 36.7% fg, 90.9% ft, 20.0% 3p

Kobe vs. 2001 Sixers
46.8 mpg, 24.6 ppg, 5.8 apg, 7.8 rpg, 1.4 spg, 1.4 bpg, 3.6 topg, 41.5% fg, 84.2% ft, 33.3% 3p

Kobe vs. 2002 Nets
43.8 mpg, 26.8 ppg, 5.3 apg, 5.8 rpg, 1.5 spg, 0.8 bpg, 3.75 topg, 51.4% fg, 80.6% ft, 54.5% 3p


I was more curious about Kobe's Finals numbers in the first 3-peat with Shaq. I know for the most part what Kobe's numbers were in the Finals against the '04 Pistons, '08 Celtics, and the two other teams he won the title over.

[gtfomyface]

his freethrow percentage is higher


:bowdown:

[The Choken One]

Kobe vs. 2000 Pacers
35.2 mpg, 15.6 ppg, 4.2 apg, 4.6 rpg, 1.0 spg, 1.4 bpg, 1.2 topg, 36.7% fg, 90.9% ft, 20.0% 3p

Kobe vs. 2001 Sixers
46.8 mpg, 24.6 ppg, 5.8 apg, 7.8 rpg, 1.4 spg, 1.4 bpg, 3.6 topg, 41.5% fg, 84.2% ft, 33.3% 3p

Kobe vs. 2002 Nets
43.8 mpg, 26.8 ppg, 5.3 apg, 5.8 rpg, 1.5 spg, 0.8 bpg, 3.75 topg, 51.4% fg, 80.6% ft, 54.5% 3p
If those are second option statlines...just wow.

[Pursuer]

His first three Finals weren't that competitive. LA played teams they were clearly better than and demolished them. Plus they were Shaq's first title shots so he got way more touches in the Finals.

And then in the last three Finals Kobe played top defenses in the league in each matchup. Number 1 ranked Orlando in 09 and an all time great defensive team in Boston in the other two years.

Every team Kobe played in the Finals was a defensive minded team.. 08-10 Celtics, 04 Pistons, 02 Nets, 01 Sixers, 09 Magic.. theyall relied on great D to win. He never got the Mavs in the Finals..

Not really 09 Magic. Yeah the defensive rating say otherwise, but honestly, their greatest strength was offense.

[SlayerEnraged]

PLAYOFFS

28.2ppg on 46.3%FG at 21.7 FG's per game.
33.6% 3FG at 4.1 attempts.
80.8%FT at 8.3 FT's per game.

FINALS

24.7ppg on 41.2%FG at 21.3 FG's per game.
31.4% 3FG at 4.0 attempts.
84.8%FT at 6.9 FT's per game.



THOUGHTS??


Here's more in depth numbers:

00 Finals(Injured):15.6ppg,4.2apg, 4.6rpg,1spg, 1.4bpg and 36.7% (90 shots for 78 pts)
01 FInals:24.6ppg, 5.8apg, 7.8rpg,1.4spg,1.4bpg and 41.5%(106shots for 123pts)
02Finals:26.8ppg, 5.3apg,5.8rpg,1.5spg,.08bpg and 51.4%(70shots for 107pts)
04Finals:22.6ppg,4.4apg,2.8rpg,1.8spg,.06bpg and 38.1%(113shots for 113pts)
08Finals:25.7ppg, 5apg,4.7rpg,2.7spg,0.2bpg and 40.5%(131shots for 154pts)
09 Finals:32.4ppg, 7.4apg,5.6rpg,1.4spg,1.4bpg and 43%135shots for 162pts)
10 Finals:28.6ppg,3.9apg,8rpg,2.0spg,0.7bpg and 40.5%(163shots for 200pts)

He was injured in the 00 Finals facing a good defensive team, and has faced lots of good defensive teams in the finals so it's kind of expected that his fg% goes down. However if you look, several high spg and bpg series which means he isn't just sitting around moping because he's facing good defensive teams.

[eliteballer]

Kobe injured in 2000 finals, out of shape on IV's coming off two surgeries in 2004 finals, not healthy in 2010 finals either(knee). Lakers also took advantage of weak interiors to feed Shaq like crazy in the 3-peat.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe injured in 2000 finals, out of shape on IV's coming off two surgeries in 2004 finals, not healthy in 2010 finals either(knee). Lakers also took advantage of weak interiors to feed Shaq like crazy in the 3-peat.

Don't forget his broken pinkie in 2008, cut near his eye in 2009, and sprained ankle in 2001; not too sure about 2002, thought he had a migraine though.

[bwink23]

Kobe injured in 2000 finals, out of shape on IV's coming off two surgeries in 2004 finals, not healthy in 2010 finals either(knee). Lakers also took advantage of weak interiors to feed Shaq like crazy in the 3-peat.


Excuses are for women.....

[The Iron Fist]

His first three Finals weren't that competitive. LA played teams they were clearly better than and demolished them. Plus they were Shaq's first title shots so he got way more touches in the Finals.

And then in the last three Finals Kobe played top defenses in the league in each matchup. Number 1 ranked Orlando in 09 and an all time great defensive team in Boston in the other two years.

Every team Kobe played in the Finals was a defensive minded team.. 08-10 Celtics, 04 Pistons, 02 Nets, 01 Sixers, 09 Magic.. theyall relied on great D to win. He never got the Mavs in the Finals..
http://imnotatoy.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/8x4efr-jpg.gif

[The Iron Fist]

If those are second option statlines...just wow.
and that was Kobe actually holding back his game, for the benefit of the team and Shaqs ego.

[rodman91]

Gasol in Title Runs : 19 ppg (56%) 11 rpg 3.0 apg 2.0 bpg

:bowdown:

[bwink23]

I suppose his Finals numbers are OK then after all the excuses being played out.....:facepalm

[Heavincent]

Don't forget his broken pinkie in 2008, cut near his eye in 2009, sprained ankle in 2001; not too sure about 2002, though he had a migraine though.

Almost as brutal as Lebron's elbow "injury".

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Gasol in Title Runs : 19 ppg (56%) 11 rpg 3.0 apg 2.0 bpg

:bowdown:

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Gasol doing world class power-lifting!

[bwink23]

and that was Kobe actually holding back his game, for the benefit of the team and Shaqs ego.


This is Kobe WITHOUT Shaq in the Finals and not holding back.

28.7ppg on 41.3%FG
33% from 3 on 5.6 attempts


OMFG!!! IMAGINE!!! :rolleyes:

[SlayerEnraged]

Excuses are for women.....

Your just pushing for an agenda and it's not gonna work. Your boy michael jordan only faced 1 good defensive team in the finals. If he faced the bad boys pistons, the late 90's miami heat, 90's Knicks or a team like that in the finals, then he'd have a lower fg % to.

[bwink23]

Your just pushing for an agenda and it's not gonna work. Your boy michael jordan only faced 1 good defensive team in the finals. If he faced the bad boys pistons, the late 90's miami heat, 90's Knicks or a team like that in the finals, then he'd have a lower fg % to.


Nah, your just a wuss....straight up. Your the most apologistic Kobetard i've ever seen....the GOAT at that sort to speak.

:cry:

[longtime lurker]

This is Kobe WITHOUT Shaq in the Finals and not holding back.

28.7ppg on 41.3%FG
33% from 3 on 5.6 attempts


OMFG!!! IMAGINE!!! :rolleyes:

Why don't you post the rest of the stats?

[rule1223]

kobe has the most rings by a superstar in the most competitive era of all time, that's all that needs to be said

[SlayerEnraged]

Nah, your just a wuss....straight up. Your the most apologistic Kobetard i've ever seen....the GOAT at that sort to speak.

:cry:

LOL orlly? What exactly do u call the shitty percentages jordan had vs the knicks, heat and even hawks? Jordans best competition was always on shitty teams or in the playoffs not the finals. Am I really talking to the idiot that talks about the rule changes and how easy it is to score now days? You're the ****ing idiot saying that even though the drtg's are still better from 05-12 than they ever from from 85-98! :lol

[rodman91]

kobe has the most rings by a superstar in the most competitive era of all time, that's all that needs to be said

Also not most finals mvp should be noted.

[Legends66NBA7]

Am I really talking to the idiot that talks about the rule changes and how easy it is to score now days?l

There was an article made back in 2006:

http://*********.com/articles/defense_lazenby.htm

And it's about perimeter defense, not overall defense.

So no, DRTG doesn't work here because it's a team stat. Another reason why DRTG is lower is because there are more 3's shot and there are less post up big men comparted to the 80's and 90's.

[rule1223]

Also not most finals mvp should be noted.
he lost 3 to a player playing at the greatest peak the nba has ever seen, literally the only player that he could has lost to was on his team so i wouldnt hold that against him

[SlayerEnraged]

There was an article made back in 2006:

http://*********.com/articles/defense_lazenby.htm

And it's about perimeter defense, not overall defense.

So no, DRTG doesn't work here because it's a team stat. Another reason why DRTG is lower is because there are more 3's shot and there are less post up big men comparted to the 80's and 90's.

Then how are we suppsed to use any factual information to determine how good a certain player or team is? Guys on youtube like blackadam always say stuff like 40/50 of Jordans 40 point games are on teams with a top 10drtg? So you're saying we can't use drtg for something like this? This whole theory is moronic because there's a contradiction for every corner of it. The 80's teams had tons of perimiter players that were excellent...The early 90's had less and by the late 90's they were scare. In the late 90's they were scarce despite the fact that the exact rule said you couldn't handcheck excent below the foul line, which you can do now! :facepalm

[Legends66NBA7]

Then how are we suppsed to use any factual information to determine how good a certain player or team is? Guys on youtube like blackadam always say stuff like 40/50 of Jordans 40 point games are on teams with a top 10drtg? So you're saying we can't use drtg for something like this? This whole theory is moronic because there's a contradiction for every corner of it. The 80's teams had tons of perimiter players that were excellent...The early 90's had less and by the late 90's they were scare. In the late 90's they were scarce despite the fact that the exact rule said you couldn't handcheck excent below the foul line, which you can do now! :facepalm

Dude, simple question:

Is it easier to score today as a perimeter player? Yes or no ?

[rule1223]

Dude, simple question:

Is it easier to score today as a perimeter player? Yes or no ?
hell no, the average perimeter defender today would be an all 2nd team defender in jordan's era. Every night, you're guarded by a lebron, kobe, wade, allen, sefolosha, deng, durant, iggy, ginobli, wallace, brewer and the list goes on... who did jordan face, payton once every other month and then a bunch of 6'3 scrubs

[Cali Syndicate]

hell no, the average perimeter defender today would be an all 2nd team defender in jordan's era. Every night, you're guarded by a lebron, kobe, wade, allen, sefolosha, deng, durant, iggy, ginobli, wallace, brewer and the list goes on... who did jordan face, payton once every other month and then a bunch of 6'3 scrubs

:facepalm

[SlayerEnraged]

Dude, simple question:

Is it easier to score today as a perimeter player? Yes or no ?

Compared to the early 2000's yes but not compared the 80's and 90's. The leagues drtg was at an all time low in the very early 2000's when zones was implemented with somewhat hand checking allowed. The defense was great on the perimiter and inside in the early 2000's. Then in 05 you could still do zone but the rule changes came into effect and the drtg went fairly close back to what it was when you could hand check but not legally play zone. 94-95 specifically had that same hand checking policy as today. Where were the perimiter scorers back then? Also, non perimiter players (mostly powerforwards) started scoring tons more ton. Why? I think a lot of this increase is guys entering their primes...

[Dictator]

Kobe Playoff stats(good)

29.4
26.6
32.1
24.5
27.9
32.8
30.1
30.2
29.2
22.8

:applause:

[Cali Syndicate]

Compared to the early 2000's yes but not compared the 80's and 90's. The leagues drtg was at an all time low in the very early 2000's when zones was implemented with somewhat hand checking allowed. The defense was great on the perimiter and inside in the early 2000's. Then in 05 you could still do zone but the rule changes came into effect and the drtg went fairly close back to what it was when you could hand check but not legally play zone. 94-95 specifically had that same hand checking policy as today. Where were the perimiter scorers back then? Also, non perimiter players (mostly powerforwards) started scoring tons more ton. Why? I think a lot of this increase is guys entering their primes...

Then why did the league re-interpret the hand-checking rule two more times in the 2000's? For shit's and giggles?

There also seems to be clear correlation to an increase in scoring for perimeter players, FG% and even with FTA following 05. We also saw guards leading the league with points in the paint around this change as well.

I'ms sure the direction of casualty isn't from players "entering their prime."

[rodman91]

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/28/wizardjordan.png/

:facepalm @ early 00's. 38 years old Jordan did that.

Wizards Jordan vs Prime Artest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV52IrBoj90

Wizards Jordan vs Prime Garnett
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmngcHYnfN0

"Shayne - NY: [via mobile]

Bruce... Who was the toughest player you've ever had to guard? Thanks!

Bruce Bowen:

Michael Jordan. He really had an infectious personality with his teammates. He gave guys courage when they wouldn't have had it. Kind of like Kobe and his will right now."

Bruce Bowen didn't even defend prime Jordan! :lol

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Kobe

04 Pistons 95.4
01 76ers 98.9
08 Celtics 98.9
02 Nets 99.5
09 Magic 101.9
00 Pacers 103.6
10 Celtics 103.8

Jordan
96 Sonics 102.1
97 Jazz 104.0
92 Blazers 104.2
91 Lakers 105.0
98 Jazz 105.4
93 Suns 106.7


Wade
06 Mavs 105.0
11 Mavs 105.0

:confusedshrug:

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

I don't get the agenda. His numbers look good. So the big deal is about his FG% in a sample of 5-7 games?

[bwink23]

Kobe

04 Pistons 95.4
01 76ers 98.9
08 Celtics 98.9
02 Nets 99.5
09 Magic 101.9
00 Pacers 103.6
10 Celtics 103.8

Jordan
96 Sonics 102.1
97 Jazz 104.0
92 Blazers 104.2
91 Lakers 105.0
98 Jazz 105.4
93 Suns 106.7


Wade
06 Mavs 105.0
11 Mavs 105.0

:confusedshrug:


By that logic, the 01 76ers were as a good a defensive team as the 08 Celtics.......:no:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

By that logic, the 01 76ers were as a good a defensive team as the 08 Celtics.......:no:

They were as effective at limiting their opponents on a point per possession basis over the course of the entire regular season. Its not a ranking, just a simple fact.

[SlayerEnraged]

By that logic, the 01 76ers were as a good a defensive team as the 08 Celtics.......:no:

when teams Jordan is going up against are consistantly are giving up more ppg than the ones MJ faced it indicates the stronger defensive teams. No, the 01 sixers probably aren't as good at defense as the celtics BUT the overall trend is teams Jordan saw in the finals are < defensively skilled than Kobe's.

[bwink23]

when teams Jordan is going up against are consistantly are giving up more ppg than the ones MJ faced it indicates the stronger defensive teams. No, the 01 sixers probably aren't as good at defense as the celtics BUT the overall trend is teams Jordan saw in the finals are < defensively skilled than Kobe's.


Is that why Kobe shoots subpar in most of his NBA Finals???

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Is that why Kobe shoots subpar in most of his NBA Finals???

Seems like common sense to me. How much better would Kobe have to be than Jordan to face much more effective defenses in his time and still shoot a higher percentage than him?

04 Pistons 95.4
01 76ers 98.9
08 Celtics 98.9
02 Nets 99.5
93 Knicks 99.7
97 Heat 100.6
09 Magic 101.9
00 Pacers 103.6
10 Celtics 103.8


MJ vs 97 Heat

Game 1 15 for 31
Game 2 4 for 15
Game 3 14 for 25
Game 4 9 for 35
Game 5 11 for 31

MJ vs 93 Knicks

Game 1 10 for 27
Game 2 12 for 32
Game 3 3 for 18
Game 4 18 for 30
Game 5 11 for 24
Game 6 8 for 24

:confusedshrug:

[bwink23]

Seems like common sense to me. How much better would Kobe have to be than Jordan to face much more effective defenses in his time and still shoot a higher percentage than him?

04 Pistons 95.4
01 76ers 98.9
08 Celtics 98.9
02 Nets 99.5
93 Knicks 99.7
97 Heat 100.6
09 Magic 101.9
00 Pacers 103.6
10 Celtics 103.8


MJ vs 97 Heat

Game 1 15 for 31
Game 2 4 for 15
Game 3 14 for 25
Game 4 9 for 35
Game 5 11 for 31

MJ vs 93 Knicks

Game 1 10 for 27
Game 2 12 for 32
Game 3 3 for 18
Game 4 18 for 30
Game 5 11 for 24
Game 6 8 for 24

:confusedshrug:


When did the ESTIMATED defensive rating have any bearing on how well a guy shoots on any given night???


Kobe has shot like crap against good defenses, bad defenses, mediocre defenses, etc. The fact that he consistently shoots like shit in the Finals is a very telling indicator of his shortcomings on the biggest stage....

[Yao Ming's Foot]

When did the ESTIMATED defensive rating have any bearing on how well a guy shoots on any given night???


Kobe has shot like crap against good defenses, bad defenses, mediocre defenses, etc. The fact that he consistently shoots like shit in the Finals is a very telling indicator of his shortcomings on the biggest stage....

If you dont understand how the strength of defense impacts an individual player's shooting percentage or how defensive rating measures the strength of a defense during that specific year i don't know if I can help you.

[bwink23]

If you dont understand how the strength of defense impacts an individual player's shooting percentage or how defensive rating measures the strength of a defense during that specific year i don't know if I can help you.


You need to help yourself...those numbers don't mean crap in the playoffs. Your performances is what matters.

Kobe in 2009 playoffs vs. Jazz (10th D)

46.6%FG

Kobe in 2009 playoffs vs. Rockets (4th D)

47.5%FG


There is no direct correlation of how a player shoots vs. Defensive rating you silly goose....:hammerhead:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

If you dont understand how the strength of defense impacts an individual player's shooting percentage or how defensive rating measures the strength of a defense during that specific year i don't know if I can help you.

Kobe vs 2000-01 Spurs (98.0 Def Rtg): 34ppg on 53%FG

:confusedshrug:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You need to help yourself...those numbers don't mean crap in the playoffs. Your performances is what matters.

Kobe in 2009 playoffs vs. Jazz (10th D)

46.6%FG

Kobe in 2009 playoffs vs. Rockets (4th D)

47.5%FG


There is no direct correlation of how a player shoots vs. Defensive rating you silly goose....:hammerhead:

:oldlol:

Of course there is. Are you serious?

Defensive rating is derived from holding the opposition from scoring on a per possession basis.

We can bet from here on out Ill take the biggest shot taker against the Nets every game and you can have the biggest shot taker against the 76ers. Whose players do you think are going to shoot the higher percentage?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Kobe vs 2000-01 Spurs (98.0 Def Rtg): 34ppg on 53%FG

:confusedshrug:

:bowdown:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:bowdown:

What happened in the Finals!?!? :eek:

[RRR3]

LOL@ Yao ming's foot using advanced stats when they fit his Kobe slurping agenda. He hates advanced stats when they favor Wade over Kobe though. the irony! :roll:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

What happened in the Finals? :eek:

http://uristocrat.com/files/2010/06/puppet_t1.jpg

Kobe haters have fallen so far that they cant even admit that facing a tougher defense would result in a lower shooting percentage. Its basic basketball knowledge and common sense. Are you guys really that insecure in Jordan's legacy that you cant even admit that?

:oldlol:

[bwink23]

:bowdown:


See previous post.....by your logic Kobe wouldn't have shot as well against the Rockets as he did vs. the Jazz....that right there throws your argument in the trash....

FACTS REMAIN.....kobe is a career 41%FG shooter in the Finals, period....that SUCKS!!!!!!!! :lol

[bwink23]

:bowdown:


And anyone with a BRAIN knows that the early 90's Knicks were a far greater defensive team than the 2001 76ers EVER were....so take your Dratings and put them in the trash where they belong.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

See previous post.....by your logic Kobe wouldn't have shot as well against the Rockets as he did vs. the Jazz....that right there throws your argument in the trash....

FACTS REMAIN.....kobe is a career 41%FG shooter in the Finals, period....that SUCKS!!!!!!!! :lol

Kobe shooting percentage in the Finals is similar to Jordan's playoff shooting percentage against teams with similar defensive ratings.

:confusedshrug:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

http://uristocrat.com/files/2010/06/puppet_t1.jpg

Kobe haters have fallen so far that they cant even admit that facing a tougher defense would result in a lower shooting percentage. Its basic basketball knowledge and common sense. Are you guys really that insecure in Jordan's legacy that you cant even admit that?

The 2001 Spurs had a lower DRTG than any of the teams Kobe faced in the Finals lol.

You're good at straying away from the original topic. Weren't we talking about his playoff/finals numbers? Stay on track, kiddo.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The 2001 Spurs had a lower DRTG than any of the teams Kobe faced in the Finals lol.

You're good at straying away from the original topic. Weren't we talking about his playoff/finals numbers? Stay on track, kiddo.

So because Kobe lit up a great defensive team in a playoff series it completely disproves the common sense theory that playing against teams with lower defensive ratings will result in a lower shooting percentages?

:lol

[bwink23]

Kobe shooting percentage in the Finals is similar to Jordan's playoff shooting percentage against teams with similar defensive ratings.

:confusedshrug:


A 41%FG in 7 Finals appearances is terrible not worthy of any GOAT discussion, no matter who he's playing. The rules were much different in Jordan day and he would eat these so-called "great" defensive teams alive today. Doc Rivers said Jordan would score 40 a game against his 2009 Celtics.

[bwink23]

So because Kobe lit up a great defensive team in a playoff series it completely disproves the common sense theory that playing against teams with lower defensive ratings will result in a lower shooting percentages?

:lol


LOL....um yeah it does!!!! As he just disproved it you moron!! :hammerhead:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

So because Kobe lit up a great defensive team in a playoff series it completely disproves the common sense theory that playing against teams with lower defensive ratings will result in a lower shooting percentages?

So because Kobe gets his ass lit up in the Finals vs teams with a 'good defensive rating', we should give him a pass?

Here's you minutes ago posting Jordan's numbers vs teams with LOW DRTGs.


Seems like common sense to me. How much better would Kobe have to be than Jordan to face much more effective defenses in

93 Knicks 99.7
97 Heat 100.6


MJ vs 97 Heat

Game 1 15 for 31
Game 2 4 for 15
Game 3 14 for 25
Game 4 9 for 35
Game 5 11 for 31

MJ vs 93 Knicks

Game 1 10 for 27
Game 2 12 for 32
Game 3 3 for 18
Game 4 18 for 30
Game 5 11 for 24
Game 6 8 for 24

Those don't look like teams he played in the Finals. Where is the consistency, apostle? :oldlol:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

A 41%FG in 7 Finals appearances is terrible not worthy of any GOAT discussion, no matter who he's playing. The rules were much different in Jordan day and he would eat these so-called "great" defensive teams alive today. Doc Rivers said Jordan would score 40 a game against his 2009 Celtics.

Then why didn't he do so against the 93 Knicks and 97 Heat? Is it just a pure coincidence that the few times he actually faced teams in the playoffs whose defensive ratings were on par with an AVERAGE Finals opponent for Kobe he shot less than 40%?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

So because Kobe gets his ass lit up in the Finals vs teams with a 'good defensive rating', we should give him a pass?

Here's you minutes ago posting Jordan's numbers vs teams with LOW DRTGs.



Those don't look like teams he played in the Finals. Where is the consistency, apostle? :oldlol:

I hold similar respect for both Kobe and Jordan's playoff performances against elite finals defenses. I just wish I could have seen Jordan have a few more. Only the 96 Sonics come close.

04 Spurs 94.1
99 Spurs 95.0
04 Pistons 95.4
01 Spurs 98.0
01 76ers 98.9
08 Celtics 98.9
00 Suns 99.0
04 Rockets 99.0
02 Nets 99.5
01 Kings 99.6
04 Twolves 99.7
02 Spurs 99.7
03 Spurs 99.7
93 Knicks 99.7
97 Heat 100.6
00 Blazers 100.8
02 Kings 101.1
98 Pacers 101.6
08 Spurs 101.8
01 Blazers 101.8
09 Magic 101.9
00 Kings 102.1
96 Sonics 102.1

[Yao Ming's Foot]

btw MJ vs 96 Sonics

9-18
9-22
11-23
6-19
11-22
5-19

= 41.46%

must be just another coincidence at play here...

[bwink23]

I hold similar respect for both Kobe and Jordan's playoff performances against elite finals defenses. I just wish I could have seen Jordan have a few more. Only the 96 Sonics come close.

04 Spurs 94.1
99 Spurs 95.0
04 Pistons 95.4
01 Spurs 98.0
01 76ers 98.9
08 Celtics 98.9
00 Suns 99.0
04 Rockets 99.0
02 Nets 99.5
01 Kings 99.6
04 Twolves 99.7
02 Spurs 99.7
03 Spurs 99.7
93 Knicks 99.7
97 Heat 100.6
00 Blazers 100.8
02 Kings 101.1
98 Pacers 101.6
08 Spurs 101.8
01 Blazers 101.8
09 Magic 101.9
00 Kings 102.1


I guarantee you 90% of the teams on that list were not near as good a defensive team as the late 80's Pistons who had a Drating of 103-105 at their best.....


BY YOUR SILLY LOGIC

The 2003 Washington Wizards (40-year old Jordan's team) (104.1 Drating)were a BETTER defensive team than the 1989 World Champion Detroit Pistons with a (104.7 Drating).

GAME OVER, you lose bitch.

[SlayerEnraged]

See previous post.....by your logic Kobe wouldn't have shot as well against the Rockets as he did vs. the Jazz....that right there throws your argument in the trash....

FACTS REMAIN.....kobe is a career 41%FG shooter in the Finals, period....that SUCKS!!!!!!!! :lol

With u homers its 1 contradiction after another..First its that KObe's only good vs the crappy teams, then u point out good numbers vs good defensive teams..SMH ur such a moron. The probability of a player shooting worse fg% than normal vs teams with a high drtg is probably 90-95% true in most series. LOL without drtg how do we know what teams are the worst at defense and which ones are the best? Funny how u liked talking about drtg when u discussed most of kobe's 40 points games right?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I guarantee you 90% of the teams on that list were not near as good a defensive team as the late 80's Pistons who had a Drating of 103-105 at their best.....


BY YOUR SILLY LOGIC

The 2003 Washington Wizards (40-year old Jordan's team) (104.1 Drating)were a BETTER defensive team than the 1989 World Champion Detroit Pistons with a (104.7 Drating).

GAME OVER, you lose bitch.

Its not a ranking. Its a simple point per possession formula. 03 Wizards opponents scored less points per possession against them then 89 Pistons opponents against the 89 Pistons. :confusedshrug:

[bwink23]

Its not a ranking. Its a simple point per possession formula. 03 Wizards opponents scored less points per possession against them then 89 Pistons opponents against the 89 Pistons. :confusedshrug:



GO AHEAD and tell me that the 2003 Wizards were a better defensive team then the 1989 Pistons, they did have the better defensive rating....right? Does that mean they are the better defensive team?? :no:

[Nevaeh]

His first three Finals weren't that competitive. LA played teams they were clearly better than and demolished them. Plus they were Shaq's first title shots so he got way more touches in the Finals.

And then in the last three Finals Kobe played top defenses in the league in each matchup. Number 1 ranked Orlando in 09 and an all time great defensive team in Boston in the other two years.

Every team Kobe played in the Finals was a defensive minded team.. 08-10 Celtics, 04 Pistons, 02 Nets, 01 Sixers, 09 Magic.. theyall relied on great D to win. He never got the Mavs in the Finals..

No, but he got em last year in the second round and got swept.

[bwink23]

With u homers its 1 contradiction after another..First its that KObe's only good vs the crappy teams, then u point out good numbers vs good defensive teams..SMH ur such a moron. The probability of a player shooting worse fg% than normal vs teams with a high drtg is probably 90-95% true in most series. LOL without drtg how do we know what teams are the worst at defense and which ones are the best? Funny how u liked talking about drtg when u discussed most of kobe's 40 points games right?


Does most of Kobe's 50-point games come against the worst teams in the league or not??

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I hold similar respect for both Kobe and Jordan's playoff performances against elite finals defenses. I just wish I could have seen Jordan have a few more. Only the 96 Sonics come close.

04 Spurs 94.1
99 Spurs 95.0
04 Pistons 95.4
01 Spurs 98.0
01 76ers 98.9
08 Celtics 98.9
00 Suns 99.0
04 Rockets 99.0
02 Nets 99.5
01 Kings 99.6
04 Twolves 99.7
02 Spurs 99.7
03 Spurs 99.7
93 Knicks 99.7
97 Heat 100.6
00 Blazers 100.8
02 Kings 101.1
98 Pacers 101.6
08 Spurs 101.8
01 Blazers 101.8
09 Magic 101.9
00 Kings 102.1
96 Sonics 102.1

DRTG per decade =/= different styles of basketball. Nobody that understands the game inside-out considers the 2000 Kings or 2009 Magic to be on the level of the '96 Sonics (or '98 Pacers) defensively. The mere insinuation is laughable. :oldlol:

Remember, you're the one that's giving Kobe an excuse for his poor shooting in the Finals. These so-called defensive juggernauts that have "superb" defensive ratings all average a worse DRtg than the 2001 Spurs. Kobe cleaned house with those Spurs. But according to you, that isn't possible. Care to explain? Instead of answering my question with a question, maybe you can break it down for us?

:confusedshrug:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

GO AHEAD and tell me that the 2003 Wizards were a better defensive team then the 1989 Pistons, they did have the better defensive rating....right? Does that mean they are the better defensive team?? :no:

Im telling you right now if you had two equal players one playing the 2003 Wizards during the regular season under 2003 rules and the other playing the 1989 Pistons under 1989 rules, simple logic and 162 games of data would suggest that the player playing against the 03 Wizards would be more likely to have the higher points per possession ratio when the game was over.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

DRTG per decade =/= different styles of basketball. Nobody that understands the game inside-out would consider the 2000 Kings or 2009 Magic to be on the level of the '96 Sonics (or '98 Pacers) defensively. The mere insinuation is laughable. :oldlol:

Remember, you're the one that's giving Kobe an excuse for his poor shooting in the Finals. These so-called defensive juggernauts that have "superb" defensive ratings all average a worse DRtg than the 2001 Spurs. Kobe cleaned house with those Spurs. But according to you, that isn't possible. Care to explain? Instead of answering my question with a question, maybe you can break it down for us?

:confusedshrug:

I never said it was not possible. I said that Kobe would have to be vastly superior to Jordan to surpass his Finals statistics given how much easier the competition during Jordan's era was able to score against Jordan's Finals opponents.

Why is it ok to compare offensive statistics from different eras and not defensive statistics Its ok if we count Jordan's inflated offensive stats but we cant count the defensive stats of the teams he faced because "its a different era". :oldlol:

[bwink23]

Im telling you right now if you had two equal players one playing the 2003 Wizards during the regular season under 2003 rules and the other playing the 1989 Pistons under 1989 rules, simple logic and 162 games of data would suggest that the player playing against the 03 Wizards would be more likely to have the higher points per possession ration when the game was over.


I guarantee you under ANY set of rules that the 1991 Bulls with prime Jordan, Pippen and Grant (104.5 Drating) is a much GREATER defensive team than the 2003 Wizards with old-ass Jordan, Jerry Stackhouse and Popeye Jones....(104.1 Drating)


:lol :roll:

[bwink23]

I never said it was not possible. I said that Kobe would have to be vastly superior to Jordan to surpass his Finals statistics given how much easier the competition during Jordan's era was able to score against Jordan's Finals opponents.

Why is it ok to compare offensive statistics from different eras and not defensive statistics Its ok if we count Jordan's inflated offensive stats but we cant count the defensive stats of the teams he faced because "its a different era". :oldlol:


Are you trying to tell me that Kobe Bryant would have a tougher time scoring against the 2003 Wizards than the 1991 Chicago Bulls with Jordan and Pippen on the wings??


GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!!

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I never said it was not possible. I said that Kobe would have to be vastly superior to Jordan to surpass his Finals statistics given how much easier the competition during Jordan's era was able to score against Jordan's Finals opponents.

Why you think its ok to compare offensive statistics from different eras and not defensive statistics is pretty funny to me? Its ok if we count Jordan's inflated offensive stats but we cant count the defensive stats of the teams he faced because "its a different era". :oldlol:

I'm all for comparing players as long as there is context. PER is good for adjusting pace, defense, possessions, etc. All that good stuff you're whining about. H2H, Jordan simply shits on Kobe. No ifs and or buts about it son.

Move along now.


Are you trying to tell me that Kobe Bryant would have a tougher time scoring against the 2003 Wizards than the 1991 Chicago Bulls with Jordan and Pippen on the wings??


GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!!

:roll: :applause:

[Nevaeh]

DRTG per decade =/= different styles of basketball. Nobody that understands the game inside-out considers the 2000 Kings or 2009 Magic to be on the level of the '96 Sonics (or '98 Pacers) defensively. The mere insinuation is laughable. :oldlol:

Remember, you're the one that's giving Kobe an excuse for his poor shooting in the Finals. These so-called defensive juggernauts that have "superb" defensive ratings all average a worse DRtg than the 2001 Spurs. Kobe cleaned house with those Spurs. But according to you, that isn't possible. Care to explain? Instead of answering my question with a question, maybe you can break it down for us?

:confusedshrug:

What's that Kuniva? You mean that teams who milk the 24 second clock, and only take shots when time's winding down to limit an opposing team's number of possessions, will have a higher defensive rating than teams that shoot early in the shot clock? Even if they don't play a lick of legit defense during the game? Wow, didn't know that. Thanks my Brotha :cheers:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Are you trying to tell me that Kobe Bryant would have a tougher time scoring against the 2003 Wizards than the 1991 Chicago Bulls with Jordan and Pippen on the wings??


GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!!

No, its not a hypothetical and Kobe Bryant wouldn't be part of the data set. This is the simple summation of 82 games of data. The average 1991 NBA player facing the Bulls during the regular season had a higher points per possession average than the average 2003 NBA player facing the Wizards. That isn't debatable.

Whats debatable is what rules were in place that allowed for this to happen and what does it say about the inflated offensive statistics that were born from this era?

[M.V.W.]

You guys still on this? It's pointless to single out Bryant for under 50 FG% in Finals appearances, when others have had similar performances. His tendency to play hero-ball is a key factor. It's not like he's choking in the moment.

[bwink23]

I'm all for comparing players as long as there is context. PER is good for adjusting pace, defense, possessions, etc. All that good stuff you're whining about. H2H, Jordan simply shits on Kobe. No ifs and or buts about it son.

Move along now.



:roll: :applause:



Does any of this sound like "COMMON SENSE THEORY" to you?? LOL!!!!!



DERRRRRR!! :hammerhead:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

What's that Kuniva? You mean that teams who milk the 24 second clock, and only take shots when time's winding down to limit an opposing team's number of possessions, will have a higher defensive rating than teams that shoot early in the shot clock? Even if they don't play a lick of legit defense during the game? Wow, didn't know that. Thanks my Brotha :cheers:

Ah yes the resurgence of the teams suddenly forgot how to play offense conspiracy theory.

:oldlol:

[bwink23]

What's that Kuniva? You mean that teams who milk the 24 second clock, and only take shots when time's winding down to limit an opposing team's number of possessions, will have a higher defensive rating than teams that shoot early in the shot clock? Even if they don't play a lick of legit defense during the game? Wow, didn't know that. Thanks my Brotha :cheers:


How dare you bring LOGIC into this conversation.....when we have the infamous and all-powerful Defensive Rating at our disposal!! :rockon:

[bwink23]

No, its not a hypothetical and Kobe Bryant wouldn't be part of the data set. This is the simple summation of 82 games of data. The average 1991 NBA player facing the Bulls during the regular season had a higher points per possession average than the average 2003 NBA player facing the Wizards. That isn't debatable.

Whats debatable is what rules were in place that allowed for this to happen and what does it say about the inflated offensive statistics that were born from this era?



What isn't debatable is that the 1991 Bulls were a better defensive team than the 2003 Wizards, no matter what Defensive rating suggests...that's called COMMON SENSE, try it some time......:hammerhead:

[SlayerEnraged]

I guarantee you under ANY set of rules that the 1991 Bulls with prime Jordan, Pippen and Grant (104.5 Drating) is a much GREATER defensive team than the 2003 Wizards with old-ass Jordan, Jerry Stackhouse and Popeye Jones....(104.1 Drating)


:lol :roll:

Drtg's show this isn't a no defense league like u idiots try preeching. If we can't compare Drtg of this era then why can we compare stats of players from one era to another?

[SlayerEnraged]

I guarantee you under ANY set of rules that the 1991 Bulls with prime Jordan, Pippen and Grant (104.5 Drating) is a much GREATER defensive team than the 2003 Wizards with old-ass Jordan, Jerry Stackhouse and Popeye Jones....(104.1 Drating)


:lol :roll:

Drtg's show this isn't a no defense league like u idiots try preeching. If we can't compare Drtg of this era then why can we compare stats of players from one era to another?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

What isn't debatable is that the 1991 Bulls were a better defensive team than the 2003 Wizards, no matter what Defensive rating suggests...that's called COMMON SENSE, try it some time......:hammerhead:

If the 1991 Bulls were a much better defensive team than the 03 Wizards and still gave up more points per possessions that sure must be one offensively inflated era of basketball statistics. Is that what you were trying to prove?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

What's that Kuniva? You mean that teams who milk the 24 second clock, and only take shots when time's winding down to limit an opposing team's number of possessions, will have a higher defensive rating than teams that shoot early in the shot clock? Even if they don't play a lick of legit defense during the game? Wow, didn't know that. Thanks my Brotha :cheers:

Why are you hating on the '04 Raptors bro? These dudes allowed less ppg than the Bad Boy Pistons (those bums had Rodman/Dumars/Mahorn/Laimbeer/Salley LOL!!!). Good defensive teams don't knock you on your ass, they lay themselves out

http://gifs.gifbin.com/062011/1307032146_chris_bosh_flop.gif

:bowdown:

[bwink23]

If the 1991 Bulls were a much better defensive team than the 03 Wizards and still gave up more points per possessions that sure must be one offensively inflated era of basketball statistics. Is that what you were trying to prove?


In Kobe Bryant's most potent offensive season in 2006...against the 10 worst teams in the league in Drating, ranging from 107-114....

35.5ppg on 46.6%FG on 26.3 shots a game....23 games

This is only SLIGHTLY greater than his season average of 35.4ppg on 45.0%FG on 27.2 shots per game.


So where is the LOGIC in that again??? :confusedshrug:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

In Kobe Bryant's most potent offensive season in 2006...against the 10 worst teams in the league in Drating, ranging from 107-114....

35.5ppg on 46.6%FG on 26.3 shots a game....23 games

This is only SLIGHTLY greater than his season average of 35.4ppg on 45.0%FG on 27.2 shots per game.


So where is the LOGIC in that again??? :confusedshrug:

Are you seriously asking me to explain the logic behind Kobe's numbers improving while facing weaker defensive competition from a season you cherry picked yourself? I hope you did not spend a lot of time looking that up. Hint: Kobe's average numbers include those same numbers against weak competition. :oldlol:

[bwink23]

Are you seriously asking me to explain the logic behind Kobe's numbers improving while facing weaker defensive competition from a season you cherry picked yourself? I hope you did not spend a lot of time looking that up. Hint: Kobe's average numbers include those same numbers against weak competition. :oldlol:


As i stated dumb ass...the numbers only improved SLIGHTLY....you said Kobe would have to play significantly better to equal Jordan output against what you call "weaker defense." = Yet here he is barely improving his season average against the absolute scrubs in the league vs. the best of the 2006 season....:rolleyes:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

As i stated dumb ass...the numbers only improved SLIGHTLY....you said Kobe would have to play significantly better to equal Jordan output against what you call "weaker defense." = Yet here he is barely improving his season average against the absolute scrubs in the league vs. the best of the 2006 season....:rolleyes:

I'm convinced I would have a more intelligent debate with a chair. Please stay in school. :facepalm

[bwink23]

I'm convinced I would have a more intelligent debate with a chair. Please stay in school. :facepalm


You think going by Drating and saying the 2003 Wizards is better defensive team than the 1991 Bulls?? DERRR!!! :roll:


Michael Jordan in 1988 vs the 10 worst defensive teams ratings 107-113).

34.9ppg on 53.7%FG, 24.2 FG's per game.

35.0ppg on 53.8%FG during the regular season....

He did slightly WORSE vs. the worst D-rated teams...

How could that be with your stupid-ass theories???


your a DUMMY dude, point blank and in your face about it too. :no:

[YAWN]

Kobe vs. 2000 Pacers
35.2 mpg, 15.6 ppg, 4.2 apg, 4.6 rpg, 1.0 spg, 1.4 bpg, 1.2 topg, 36.7% fg, 90.9% ft, 20.0% 3p

Kobe vs. 2001 Sixers
46.8 mpg, 24.6 ppg, 5.8 apg, 7.8 rpg, 1.4 spg, 1.4 bpg, 3.6 topg, 41.5% fg, 84.2% ft, 33.3% 3p

Kobe vs. 2002 Nets
43.8 mpg, 26.8 ppg, 5.3 apg, 5.8 rpg, 1.5 spg, 0.8 bpg, 3.75 topg, 51.4% fg, 80.6% ft, 54.5% 3p


Meh, the Lakers rightfully exploited the weak bigs on those Finals teams. Kobe beasted in the other series though. Check out the numbers from the 01 title run.

25/4/8 VS Blazers in First round
35/9/4 VS Kings in Semis
33/7/7 VS Spurs in WCF
25/8/6 VS Sixers in Finals

Blazers, Kings, & Spurs were all superior to every ECF team.

[SlayerEnraged]

You think going by Drating and saying the 2003 Wizards is better defensive team than the 1991 Bulls?? DERRR!!! :roll:


Michael Jordan in 1988 vs the 10 worst defensive teams ratings 107-113).

34.9ppg on 53.7%FG, 24.2 FG's per game.

35.0ppg on 53.8%FG during the regular season....

He did slightly WORSE vs. the worst D-rated teams...

How could that be with your stupid-ass theories???


your a DUMMY dude, point blank and in your face about it too. :no:

How about you do that for EVERY season both played. You're the biggest tard thinking better defensive teams won't make players struggle more lol!

[bwink23]

Are you seriously asking me to explain the logic behind Kobe's numbers improving while facing weaker defensive competition from a season you cherry picked yourself? I hope you did not spend a lot of time looking that up. Hint: Kobe's average numbers include those same numbers against weak competition. :oldlol:


How about another example...

Michael Jordan in 1987 vs. the 5 worst D-rated teams in the league:

36.7ppg on 48.4%FG, 27 shots a game....

That about lines up with his season average, despite it being against the scrub defenses in the league....:hammerhead:

[bwink23]

How about you do that for EVERY season both played. You're the biggest tard thinking better defensive teams won't make players struggle more lol!


I never said they wouldn't....i'm saying Defensive rating won't tell you JACK SHIT about how great a defensive team is, especially across different eras and playing styles.

Defensive rating says the 2003 Wizards were a better defensive team than the 1991 Chicago Bulls....do you AGREE with that??

If you do, HERE'S YOUR SIGN...if you don't, then you agree that Defensive rating is NOT a good gauge of a team's defensive abilities.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

How about another example...

Michael Jordan in 1987 vs. the 5 worst D-rated teams in the league:

36.7ppg on 48.4%FG, 27 shots a game....

That about lines up with his season average, despite it being against the scrub defenses in the league....:hammerhead:


Stop, you're killing me!

:lol

[bwink23]

How about you do that for EVERY season both played. You're the biggest tard thinking better defensive teams won't make players struggle more lol!


Defensive rating is only useful if trying to gauge teams of the SAME YEAR. It's not a "cross-era" stat, OBVIOUSLY. Common sense can tell you that.

[SlayerEnraged]

Defensive rating is only useful if trying to gauge teams of the SAME YEAR. It's not a "cross-era" stat, OBVIOUSLY. Common sense can tell you that.

What does this have to do with our earlier conversation? Jordans teams in the finals didn't have as good of a drtg as the knicks, heat, hawks, etc which he saw in the regular playoffs. That's exactly my point-that Mj's fg% would be lower if he faced thoseteams in the finals instead.

[bwink23]

What does this have to do with our earlier conversation? Jordans teams in the finals didn't have as good of a drtg as the knicks, heat, hawks, etc which he saw in the regular playoffs. That's exactly my point-that Mj's fg% would be lower if he faced thoseteams in the finals instead.


That's not a GIVEN. Kobe shot Better vs. the 2009 Rockets than he did vs. the 2004 Jazz....There is simply NO EXCUSE for 41%FG in 7 Finals appearances in your prime age. Kobe has one good Finals series shooting and that was against the "#1 defensive rated" Nets....

So put your excuses in the garbage.

Jordan would rip through any team Kobe faced in the Finals in this era...period.

[bwink23]

What does this have to do with our earlier conversation? Jordans teams in the finals didn't have as good of a drtg as the knicks, heat, hawks, etc which he saw in the regular playoffs. That's exactly my point-that Mj's fg% would be lower if he faced thoseteams in the finals instead.


The only reason why the Knicks held Jordan is check for the most part is cuz they were allowed be ridiculously physical....Jordan would dismantle the Celtics...Doc Rivers said that Jordan would have busted his Celtics for 40 a game in 2010, LOL!! :hammerhead:

[SlayerEnraged]

That's not a GIVEN. Kobe shot Better vs. the 2009 Rockets than he did vs. the 2004 Jazz....There is simply NO EXCUSE for 41%FG in 7 Finals appearances in your prime age. Kobe has one good Finals series shooting and that was against the "#1 defensive rated" Nets....

So put your excuses in the garbage.

Jordan would rip through any team Kobe faced in the Finals in this era...period.

Kobe shot 45.7% vs the 09 rockets in the playoffs so what are u talking about? It's not a given? MJ shot 40% vs. the Knicks and lowe 40's vs the heat and hhawks as wel..You're telling me because it's the finals he'd magically play better had he faced them there instead? These teams were great defensively just like the 96 sonics that JOrdan didn't shoot well against.

[bwink23]

Kobe shot 45.7% vs the 09 rockets in the playoffs so what are u talking about? It's not a given? MJ shot 40% vs. the Knicks and lowe 40's vs the heat and hhawks as wel..You're telling me because it's the finals he'd magically play better had he faced them there instead? These teams were great defensively just like the 96 sonics that JOrdan didn't shoot well against.


YES....Jordan would turn up the juice on the biggest stage, that's what he's famous for. DERRR!!! :lol


You can justify it in your own mind anyway you want....but the records will always show 41%FG in 7 Finals appearances for Kobe....DEAL WITH IT....

[SlayerEnraged]

The only reason why the Knicks held Jordan is check for the most part is cuz they were allowed be ridiculously physical....Jordan would dismantle the Celtics...Doc Rivers said that Jordan would have busted his Celtics for 40 a game in 2010, LOL!! :hammerhead:

Which is why Pippen was able to shoot 50% vs them? Jordan hardly did better vs the Knicks than Dominique did vs. them in the same year (29.8ppg,38.6%shooting). Reggie was able to get 20.8ppg on 50% vs them as well. Big old strong Mj :cry: about dwarfy starks touchin him lmao. Yup words count for u when they aren't what u wantto hear. :rolleyes:

[SlayerEnraged]

YES....Jordan would turn up the juice on the biggest stage, that's what he's famous for. DERRR!!! :lol


You can justify it in your own mind anyway you want....but the records will always show 41%FG in 7 Finals appearances for Kobe....DEAL WITH IT....

Your the one being the idiot...ANy1 with a brain can tell u his fg% is lower in the finals cause it's vs. better defensive teams. Congradulations making a thread about something obvious and nope. Mj's fg% drom the the regular season to the playoffs and finals. He doesn't do things as efficiently as normal in the playoffs vs better teams either.

[SlayerEnraged]

The only reason why the Knicks held Jordan is check for the most part is cuz they were allowed be ridiculously physical....Jordan would dismantle the Celtics...Doc Rivers said that Jordan would have busted his Celtics for 40 a game in 2010, LOL!! :hammerhead:

Kobe was more than a full year older than Mj who struggled vs a very similar team like the knicks so he's a moron.

[bwink23]

Your the one being the idiot...ANy1 with a brain can tell u his fg% is lower in the finals cause it's vs. better defensive teams. Congradulations making a thread about something obvious and nope. Mj's fg% drom the the regular season to the playoffs and finals. He doesn't do things as efficiently as normal in the playoffs vs better teams either.


Jordan is the greatest playoff performer of all-time, that's not even an argument....HATE ON THAT KID.....:lol

[SlayerEnraged]

Jordan is the greatest playoff performer of all-time, that's not even an argument....HATE ON THAT KID.....:lol

lol 33 year old dominique performs basically as good as 30 year old MJ did vs the 93 knicks LOL! Btw yup the Knicks were able to play Jordan so physically and with no consequences that he shot 9 or more freethrows in 5/6 games including a game where he got almost as many fta's as field goal attempts (18 vs. 17). :rolleyes:

[bwink23]

Kobe was more than a full year older than Mj who struggled vs a very similar team like the knicks so he's a moron.


Jordan vs. 1991 Lakers in the Finals (105 D-rating).

31.2ppg on 55.8%FG, 22.6 FGA's, 11.4 assists. (28 years old)



Kobe vs. the 2007 Suns in the First Round (105.3 D-rating)

32.8ppg on 46.7%FG, 26 FGA's, 4.4 assists. (28 years old)


Kobe isn't in Jordan's stratosphere.

[bwink23]

lol 33 year old dominique performs basically as good as 30 year old MJ did vs the 93 knicks LOL! Btw yup the Knicks were able to play Jordan so physically and with no consequences that he shot 9 or more freethrows in 5/6 games including a game where he got almost as many fta's as field goal attempts (18 vs. 17). :rolleyes:


Jordan would have got over 30 FT's a game if the Knicks series was called like the 2008 Celtics series.....:rolleyes:

[SlayerEnraged]

Jordan vs. 1991 Lakers in the Finals (105 D-rating).

31.2ppg on 55.8%FG, 22.6 FGA's, 11.4 assists. (28 years old)



Kobe vs. the 2007 Suns in the First Round (105.3 D-rating)

32.8ppg on 46.7%FG, 26 FGA's, 4.4 assists. (28 years old)


Kobe isn't in Jordan's stratosphere.

Yup and that's just a horrible series by Kobe..and He shoulda racked up those assists with smush, vugicic, walton, etc open in the corner correct? MJ had 6 '4 Byron scott guarding him while Kobe had Bell and Marion guarding him...NO comparison defensively what so ever.

[bwink23]

Yup and that's just a horrible series by Kobe..and He shoulda racked up those assists with smush, vugicic, walton, etc open in the corner correct? MJ had 6 '4 Byron scott guarding him while Kobe had Bell and Marion guarding him...NO comparison defensively what so ever.


Jordan would have tore that Suns team a new asshole....LOL you think those guys are so great....it's quite comical...:lol

[bwink23]

Yup and that's just a horrible series by Kobe..and He shoulda racked up those assists with smush, vugicic, walton, etc open in the corner correct? MJ had 6 '4 Byron scott guarding him while Kobe had Bell and Marion guarding him...NO comparison defensively what so ever.


Kobe isn't on Jordan's level, never was and never will be....GET OVER IT SON....:no:

[SlayerEnraged]

Jordan would have got over 30 FT's a game if the Knicks series was called like the 2008 Celtics series.....:rolleyes:

Yup he woulda averaged 80ppg to if blind folded Doc told reporters that to. Hey moron, the celtics and lakers got 361 freethrow attmepts in the 08 finals and the bulls and knicks got 385 freethrow attempts in the 1993 playoffs series. LOL! Owned bitch get out the way!

[bwink23]

Yup he woulda averaged 80ppg to if blind folded Doc told reporters that to. Hey moron, the celtics and lakers got 361 freethrow attmepts in the 08 finals and the bulls and knicks got 385 freethrow attempts in the 1993 playoffs series. LOL! Owned bitch get out the way!


Exactly and there would have been ALOT more than that if the game was called like it is in this WEAK-ASS era for perimeter players...

It's well-documented. We've been over this before, but as usual you don't learn shit. Have fun trying to defend a SECOND-RATE player to the GOAT....and that will NEVER CHANGE, LOL!!!! MUST SUCK FOR YOU HOMER!! :hammerhead:

[Legends66NBA7]

This is starting to turn into your arguements on YouTube again. :ohwell:

[bwink23]

This is starting to turn into your arguements on YouTube again. :ohwell:


What can i say, that moron brings out the worst in me....:banghead:

[jstern]

I read the 2nd page, and my god, I am dizzy from all of the excuses. It's so relentless, from one poster to another. Trying so hard.

[I.R.Beast]

PLAYOFFS

28.2ppg on 46.3%FG at 21.7 FG's per game.
33.6% 3FG at 4.1 attempts.
80.8%FT at 8.3 FT's per game.

FINALS

24.7ppg on 41.2%FG at 21.3 FG's per game.
31.4% 3FG at 4.0 attempts.
84.8%FT at 6.9 FT's per game.



THOUGHTS??

3 of his finals appearances were against historically great defenses... Pistons in 04 and Celtics in in 08, and 10.... ...

[SlayerEnraged]

Exactly and there would have been ALOT more than that if the game was called like it is in this WEAK-ASS era for perimeter players...

It's well-documented. We've been over this before, but as usual you don't learn shit. Have fun trying to defend a SECOND-RATE player to the GOAT....and that will NEVER CHANGE, LOL!!!! MUST SUCK FOR YOU HOMER!! :hammerhead:

Nah man I love listening to ur wimpy little ass...The whole league in the 90's gets more fta's than teams from 05-11 with the rule changes and clearly the knicks and bulls were getting more calls than the celtics and lakers were..yet u think MJ would get more calls lmao. The league playoff pace in 2010 was 89.7 in the playoffs and teams only game up 45.3%Fg and in 2,463 playoff minutes to get 4,447 FTA. 1993 League playoff pace was 90.8,teams gave up46.5%Fg, and in 2,318 playoff minutes there was 3952. Yet you have the nerve to say it's crappy defense now and that more calls are being called? LMAO the numbers say other wise.

[juju151111]

Nah man I love listening to ur wimpy little ass...The whole league in the 90's gets more fta's than teams from 05-11 with the rule changes and clearly the knicks and bulls were getting more calls than the celtics and lakers were..yet u think MJ would get more calls lmao. The league playoff pace in 2010 was 89.7 in the playoffs and teams only game up 45.3%Fg and in 2,463 playoff minutes to get 4,447 FTA. 1993 League playoff pace was 90.8,teams gave up46.5%Fg, and in 2,318 playoff minutes there was 3952. Yet you have the nerve to say it's crappy defense now and that more calls are being called? LMAO the numbers say other wise.
FTs are based on skills and they are not containing NJ without handchecking. Kobe use to get Fts too back his prime years. Anyways this thread is full of crap I am surpose to believe the 96 bulls defense is weaker then bum ass teams from 00s who didn't even make the playoffs? I am surpose to believe Kobe is the Goat? Goat at wat? Is he more clutch? No, better playoff performer? ,LEAD his team to 6 chips,6 finals mvp,etc.. You cliam Kobe is better. Can you give us things he better at or why u think he is better

[D-Wade316]

This is starting to turn into your arguements on YouTube again. :ohwell:
:lol

[Big#50]

[QdUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Kobe vs 2000-01 Spurs (98.0 Def Rtg): 34ppg on 53%FG

:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Antonio Daniels is 6'3 at most. Isn't that the line Kobetards use against people that guarded MJ? Anderson got injured that year. Daniels was ****ing short as **** next to Kobe.

[D-Wade316]

1. 2009 - no doubt his best finals performance
2. 2010
3. 2002
4. 2001
5. 2000
6. 2008
7. 2004

[Da_Realist]

Kobe vs 2000-01 Spurs (98.0 Def Rtg): 34ppg on 53%FG

:confusedshrug:
Antonio Daniels is 6'3 at most. Isn't that the line Kobetards use against people that guarded MJ? Anderson got injured that year. Daniels was ****ing short as **** next to Kobe.

MJ would have gone hog wild with Jason Kidd being his primary defender. It's exactly the kind of series that Kobe fans would dismiss because Jason Kidd was old (38) and short (6'4").

Yet Kobe manages only 23 points per game while getting swept out of the playoffs.

[Deuce Bigalow]

MJ would have gone hog wild with Jason Kidd being his primary defender. It's exactly the kind of series that Kobe fans would dismiss because Jason Kidd was old (38) and short (6'4").

Yet Kobe manages only 23 points per game while getting swept out of the playoffs.
The dude was just coming off leading his team to 3 straight finals appearances and Back to back championships averaging ~30-6-6.
in 2011 he had a knee injury and a sprained ankle

[TheMarkMadsen]

What can i say, that moron brings out the worst in me....:banghead:


02, 26 ppg 7 rpg 6 apg? on 51% shooting & 50% from 3? as a second option? :bowdown:

I don't even dislike Lebron, but knowing how biased bwink is, and knowing that this is just another thread to add to his & 32 days hype machine of "Lebron is better than Kobe/Kobe sucks" Im going to go ahead and post Lebrons Scoring stats durring his title years..

Oh wait.. :confusedshrug:

[raptorfan_dr07]

The dude was just coming off leading his team to 3 straight finals appearances and Back to back championships averaging ~30-6-6.
in 2011 he had a knee injury and a sprained ankle

I swear there's never been a player in NBA history who's had more excuses made for them, with Lebron being a close second. There's already the wrist "injury" this year which apparently isn't preventing him from chucking up 30 shots a game and freezing his teammates out of the offense.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I swear there's never been a player in NBA history who's had more excuses made for them, with Lebron being a close second. There's already the wrist "injury" this year which apparently isn't preventing him from chucking up 30 shots a game and freezing his teammates out of the offense.
3 finals in a row
back to back championships

:confusedshrug:

does he need to win one every year?

[TheFrozenOne]

3 finals in a row
back to back championships

:confusedshrug:

does he need to win one every year?


Yes...kobe haterz xpect Kobe to win every year....after going to 3 straight Finals they bashed him for losing to the NBA Champions


after all going to 4 straight Finals happens all the time....

[bwink23]

Yes...kobe haterz xpect Kobe to win every year....after going to 3 straight Finals they bashed him for losing to the NBA Champions


after all going to 4 straight Finals happens all the time....



Kobe never went to 4 straight FINALS you EFFING MORON!!! :hammerhead:

[caliman]

Kobe never went to 4 straight FINALS you EFFING MORON!!! :hammerhead:


Reading comprehension bro

[TheFrozenOne]

Kobe never went to 4 straight FINALS you EFFING MORON!!! :hammerhead:

:facepalm



this Kobe Hater is so mad ...(giggles)

[bwink23]

:facepalm



this Kobe Hater is so mad ...(giggles)


Did you really giggle to yourself....NERD :rolleyes:

[Da_Realist]

Yes...kobe haterz xpect Kobe to win every year....after going to 3 straight Finals they bashed him for losing to the NBA Champions


after all going to 4 straight Finals happens all the time....

No, just stating fact. MJ would have murdered Kidd (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfYsbKVADUc)...especially the AARP version. Would've killed him. And you Kobe fans would have just said, "His numbers are overrated. He only went up against 40 year old midgets".

Kobe goes out with two straight 17 point games while watching his team get blown out of the gym. His last statement to the Mavs was a 17 point, 3 reb, 2 ast, 5 turnover game while his team gets beat by 36 points! All while being guarded primarily by someone collecting social security checks.

[DMAVS41]

No, just stating fact. MJ would have murdered Kidd (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfYsbKVADUc)...especially the AARP version. Would've killed him. And you Kobe fans would have just said, "His numbers are overrated. He only went up against 40 year old midgets".

Kobe goes out with two straight 17 point games while watching his team get blown out of the gym. His last statement to the Mavs was a 17 point, 3 reb, 2 ast, 5 turnover game while his team gets beat by 36 points! All while being guarded primarily by someone collecting social security checks.

:lol :lol :lol
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[PTB Fan]

Kobe

04 Pistons 95.4
01 76ers 98.9
08 Celtics 98.9
02 Nets 99.5
09 Magic 101.9
00 Pacers 103.6
10 Celtics 103.8

Jordan
96 Sonics 102.1
97 Jazz 104.0
92 Blazers 104.2
91 Lakers 105.0
98 Jazz 105.4
93 Suns 106.7


Wade
06 Mavs 105.0
11 Mavs 105.0

:confusedshrug:

This is right because the 00' Pacers, '01 Sixers, '02 Nets, '04 Pistons, '08, '10
Celtics and '09 Magic were better defensive teams than the teams in bolded thanks to the defensive rating?

:rolleyes:

[HurricaneKid]

Kobe vs. 2000 Pacers
35.2 mpg, 15.6 ppg, 36.7% fg, 20.0% 3p



If those are second option statlines...just wow.

3rd option perhaps?