Andre Iguodala: Kobe is 2nd GOAT behind MJ

[G-Funk]

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...138756764.html



When asked after Saturday's 98-87 win in Atlanta whether Bryant brings extra electricity to the building, forward Andre Iguodala didn't hesitate.

"I think so," Iguodala said. "He's the best player in the game. Second-best player of all time, in my opinion."

No. 1?

"M.J., of course," Iguodala said, referring to Michael Jordan.

As with most players who have spent more than a decade and half in the league, Bryant has had to make adjustments.

"He has done a great job of getting the most out of his body," said Iguodala, who draws the defensive assignment against Bryant. "He doesn't have that great athletic ability that he used to have, and he's not as explosive as he used to be going to the basket, but he's mastered that mid-range game and he's still so dangerous in the post."

[G-Funk]

Not 2nd all-time unless he wins 2 more F-MVP's then it will be hard to argue against Iggy. 2nd most F-MVP, All-time scoring records, Amazing seasons, Longevity, Great stats. his full resume will be of the charts.

[CLTHornets4eva]

It is hard if not impossible to judge someone's career while they still play (thats why Hall of Fames wait 5 years or more). While I certainly think he could go down at #2 I think its too early to claim that. Especially when your comparing between different positions and such different eras.

[FKAri]

Not 2nd all-time unless he wins 2 more F-MVP's then it will be hard to argue against Iggy. 2nd most F-MVP, All-time scoring records, Amazing seasons, Longevity, Great stats. his full resume will be of the charts.

So if the Lakers magically bring in Dwight Howard and Deron Williams, and they go on to win 3 titles, Kobe becomes a better player, as opposed to if the Lakers shipped Kobe to the Wizards to rot for the rest of his career?

I hate such "resume" arguments for a player who's already been in the league long enough for us to gauge how good he is/was.

[RazorBaLade]

So if the Lakers magically bring in Dwight Howard and Deron Williams, and they go on to win 3 titles, Kobe becomes a better player, as opposed to if the Lakers shipped Kobe to the Wizards to rot for the rest of his career?

I hate such "resume" arguments for a player who's already been in the league long enough for us to gauge how good he is/was.

The thing is with these lists when people say best, they mean careers. We're not talking about a 5 year sample size of pure mathematical results... We rank the careers.

If kobe goes down as having the 2nd best career to mj , which for example might require 2 more rings.. Thats a 7 time champion, mvp, so many records, so many scoring performances... Thats a T2 all time career possibly. In 10 years from now people will not care that arenas once scored 60 on him and for that one game showed arenas was better than kobe ya know? If we go by pure numbers and skill I don't even know how MJ is goat over someone like shaq or wilt... MJ has the superior career though.

[kennethgriffin]

Not 2nd all-time unless he wins 2 more F-MVP's then it will be hard to argue against Iggy. 2nd most F-MVP, All-time scoring records, Amazing seasons, Longevity, Great stats. his full resume will be of the charts.


if kobe is the closest thing to jordan. then he has to be the 2nd best ever by default

otherwise jordan isnt the goat and russell is

[The_Yearning]

Iggy knows the deal.

[RazorBaLade]

if kobe is the closest thing to jordan. then he has to be the 2nd best ever by default

otherwise jordan isnt the goat and russell is

that kind of argument to me sounds like saying 5 (five)dollars is worth more than 10 (ten) because the amount of letters in 5 is closer to twenty bucks.

Kobe has a similar playstyle to jordan but I still feel its a lot different.. But yea, I mean its closer than shaqs or kareems or wilts playstyle is to jordan but what does that matter? He just doesn't have the stats to come against those guys in their prime. He'll probably end up with magic and bird with the fans of each player vehemently believing his player is better than the other 2.

[ThaRegul8r]

The question here is how much Andre Iguodala knows about the history of the game that his opinion should hold any weight. Just because a player plays in the league today doesn't mean he has to know anything about the history of the game he's playing.

[kennethgriffin]

that kind of argument to me sounds like saying 5 (five)dollars is worth more than 10 (ten) because the amount of letters in 5 is closer to twenty bucks.

Kobe has a similar playstyle to jordan but I still feel its a lot different.. But yea, I mean its closer than shaqs or kareems or wilts playstyle is to jordan but what does that matter?

so you think out of all the players in nba history.. none of them were ever even half as good as jordan ( hense the 5 to 10 )

so kobe is a 50 out of 100 in your eyes


na i would say kobe is a 98 and no one else ever got to 95+

kobe is as close to jordan as it gets.. only thing keeping him from being 100 is he takes some bad shots sometimes when he forces it

after that theyre basically the same player

[CLTHornets4eva]

so you think out of all the players in nba history.. none of them were ever even half as good as jordan ( hense the 5 to 10 )

so kobe is a 50 out of 100 in your eyes


na i would say kobe is a 98 and no one else ever got to 95+

kobe is as close to jordan as it gets.. only thing keeping him from being 100 is he takes some bad shots sometimes when he forces it

after that theyre basically the same player



No I think Kobe is shoot first drive later. MJ was almost always drive then shoot(towards the end of his career it was trending towards shot first). Kobe was never the above rim player that MJ was. He was a worse defender, Period. His post up game was better and his defence down low was better. He was a better passer and had more assists. He averaged nearly 5 more points per game, 1 more steal, 2 more rebounds, .5 fewer turnovers and had a substantially better FG%.

Besides nearly every relevant stat category besides (3pt %) MJ owns Kobe. So yeah, about that same player thing.

[The_Yearning]

Even Jordan himself said that Kobe is the only one worthy enough to be compared to him.

I don't recall him saying that about anybody else.

[LakersReign]

Of course....of course. When it comes to ranking Kobe among the greats, NOBODY in the NBA knows what they're talking about:facepalm


(Megatron voice) Such pathetic nonsense.:rolleyes:

[RazorBaLade]

so you think out of all the players in nba history.. none of them were ever even half as good as jordan ( hense the 5 to 10 )

so kobe is a 50 out of 100 in your eyes


na i would say kobe is a 98 and no one else ever got to 95+

kobe is as close to jordan as it gets.. only thing keeping him from being 100 is he takes some bad shots sometimes when he forces it

after that theyre basically the same player

The five to ten was just an example of the letters lol. Five is closer to twenty than ten is to twenty so five is worth more than 10 = kobe is closer to jordan than any other player so kobe is better than kareem. Maybe was a bad example!

Just for the sake of it, my list is something like

Jordan
Kareem
Wilt
Russell
Bird
Magic
Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
Oscar?

Jordan is a 99, kareem is 98. The difference between them might be 2 or 3 made jordan shots that propelled his career to godlike status. Kobe may be a 94 or a 95. Keep in mind I mean career, story, skill all together.

Kobe's (graciously given) ceiling has to be just under russell. He just cannot realistically be unarguably better than magic and bird at this point and Jordan and kareem unarguably are.

[kennethgriffin]

No I think Kobe is shoot first drive later. MJ was almost always drive then shoot(towards the end of his career it was trending towards shot first). Kobe was never the above rim player that MJ was. He was a worse defender, Period. His post up game was better and his defence down low was better. He was a better passer and had more assists. He averaged nearly 5 more points per game, 1 more steal, 2 more rebounds, .5 fewer turnovers and had a substantially better FG%.

Besides nearly every relevant stat category besides (3pt %) MJ owns Kobe. So yeah, about that same player thing.


A) both kobe and jordan for the first half of their careers were drive then shoot guys. and the later years shoot first drive second.

B) kobe in his prime is a top 10 dunker of all time and even in his 16th season was doing windmills in exibitions not too long ago

C) kobe for most of his career was a legit stopper and currently holds the record with jordan for all defensive 1st teams. sure the last few were off rep. but no more than a few years ago in the olympics he was being used as a main stopper for the other teams best players

D) kobe and jordan have equally great post moves

E) jordan is not a better passer. pippen played pg for the bulls all those years and was bringing the ball up the court. kobe on the other hand had to do that job and score while fishers 1 dimensional a** just sat in the corner for kick outs

F) he averaged more points. but thats never been a thing that judges greatness. more often than not a winner will be a team player. kobe was a winner more often in his career so he didnt have half a decade to pad his scoring average on a bad team like mj... plus the whole having to share with shaq thing and coming out of highschool. career points have never meant much. its why most of the top 10 ppg leaders are not in the top 10 all time player rankings

G) the fg% thing is what i originally pointed to... if kobe didnt go god mode and heat check so much while also shooting 3-4 times as many threes in his career... his fg% would be equal to that of jordans..

kobes never been a stat padder or stat protector...

he shoots the ball full court at the end of courters.. he is the bail out man at the end of shot clocks from 5 feet behind the 3point line

no way jordan would have been put in that position since he rarely shot threes.. it was natural for bail out distance threes to be taken by someone else


but this is all comon sense stuff that i'm sure you already knew but just wanted me to waste my time repeating for probably the 1000th time over the last 10 years of posting on message boards

thankyou goodnight... do it again soon with some other clown :sleeping

[CLTHornets4eva]

A) both kobe and jordan for the first half of their careers were drive then shoot guys. and the later years shoot first drive second.

B) kobe in his prime is a top 10 dunker of all time and even in his 16th season was doing windmills in exibitions not too long ago

C) kobe for most of his career was a legit stopper and currently holds the record with jordan for all defensive 1st teams. sure the last few were off rep. but no more than a few years ago in the olympics he was being used as a main stopper for the other teams best players

D) kobe and jordan have equally great post moves

E) jordan is not a better passer. pippen played pg for the bulls all those years and was bringing the ball up the court. kobe on the other hand had to do that job and score while fishers 1 dimensional a** just sat in the corner for kick outs

F) he averaged more points. but thats never been a thing that judges greatness. more often than not a winner will be a team player. kobe was a winner more often in his career so he didnt have half a decade to pad his scoring average on a bad team like mj... plus the whole having to share with shaq thing and coming out of highschool. career points have never meant much. its why most of the top 10 ppg leaders are not in the top 10 all time player rankings

G) the fg% thing is what i originally pointed to... if kobe didnt go god mode and heat check so much while also shooting 3-4 times as many threes in his career... his fg% would be equal to that of jordans..

kobes never been a stat padder or stat protector...

he shoots the ball full court at the end of courters.. he is the bail out man at the end of shot clocks from 5 feet behind the 3point line

no way jordan would have been put in that position since he rarely shot threes.. it was natural for bail out distance threes to be taken by someone else


but this is all comon sense stuff that i'm sure you already knew but just wanted me to waste my time repeating for probably the 1000th time over the last 10 years of posting on message boards

thankyou goodnight... do it again soon with some other clown :sleeping
:violin:

Well in every instance they weren't EVEN. Jordan was better in every circumstance.

And don't act so self righteous. If you have been argueing this for 10 years, you homerism truely is egregious. Clown.

[Lebron23]

Borderline top 10.

[kennethgriffin]

:violin:

Well in every instance they weren't EVEN. Jordan was better in every circumstance.

And don't act so self righteous. If you have been argueing this for 10 years, you homerism truely is egregious. Clown.

so lebron james, elgin baylor and wilt chamberlain etc are better than MJ then

better career stats

lol even you know what makes MJ better than them and even russell who has more rings and kareem whos career is more accomplished is 1 thing

comon sense

people saw mj play and he had all those tricks and the killer instinct and work ethic packaged in a guy who seemingly always finds a way to win

well thats kobe... suck a meat.

[CLTHornets4eva]

comon sense


well thats kobe... suck a meat.

Its apparent you don't have "common sense". :blah

[kennethgriffin]

Its apparent you don't have "common sense". :blah

apparently kobe fans are the ones who are right

since we share the same opinion as most current stars, coaches, former players, legends and others in and around the nba

sorry man.

look at the thread title

many others like it with even bigger names sayin the same things i'm sayin

show me a high profile nba person in any area that says stuff like

"PER! KOBE LOL 11-15 all time at best! he might crack my top 10 if he wins 6... hes a chucker!"

ever wonder who the crazy person is? its the odd man out

one of these things is not like the other <----

get it?

yea:rolleyes:

[CLTHornets4eva]

show me a high profile nba person in any area that says stuff like

"PER! KOBE LOL 11-15 all time at best! he might crack my top 10 if he wins 6... hes a chucker!"


Easy. Bill Simmons.

15. Kobe Bryant

14. Elgin Baylor

13. John Havlicek


12. Moses Malone

11. Shaquille O

[ThatsGame]

Shaq deserves to be ahead of Kobe, because he's the one that carried him to his first few rings.

He literally carried Kobe.

Without Shaq, Kobe would not have won, period.

Same thing with Pau really.

You can't be a GOAT like MJ if you have played side kick for most of your rings

[LakersReign]

Shaq deserves to be ahead of Kobe, because he's the one that carried him to his first few rings.

He literally carried Kobe.

Without Shaq, Kobe would not have won, period.

Same thing with Pau really.

You can't be a GOAT like MJ if you have played side kick for most of your rings

Just like Wade will "carry" Lebron to a title if and when the Heat do win one....right?! You do realize that applies to Lebron playing on WADE'S TEAM......right?! I'd really stop saying that if I were you:hammerhead:

[AngelEyes]

Shaq deserves to be ahead of Kobe, because he's the one that carried him to his first few rings.

He literally carried Kobe.

Without Shaq, Kobe would not have won, period.

Same thing with Pau really.

You can't be a GOAT like MJ if you have played side kick for most of your rings

http://www.clipperscurse.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/shaqkobe.jpg

I guess you're right...

[CLTHornets4eva]

http://www.clipperscurse.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/shaqkobe.jpg

I guess you're right...

Haha. I'm not trying to sh*t on Kobe, but saying #2 repeatedly without any ability to look at the past, or regard for differing playing styles, positions and different eras, is completely ignorant. To blindly cheer your favorite player as the #2 GOAT just because some players want to stroke Kobe's ego is straight stupid.

[kennethgriffin]

Easy. Bill Simmons.

15. Kobe Bryant

14. Elgin Baylor

13. John Havlicek


12. Moses Malone

11. Shaquille O’Neal

10. Hakeem Olajuwon

9. Oscar Robertson

8. Jerry West

7. Tim Duncan

6. Wilt Chamberlain

5. Larry Bird

4. Magic Johnson

3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

2. Bill Russell

1. Michael Jordan


bill simmons was never a player, coach, gm, or owner

hes a writer with an agenda for a hype machine

hes basically a message board poster who gets paid to troll

not only that. he was litterally quoted saying he hates kobe and thinks "he was that kid who nobody likes and looks awkward at partys and gets impressed if anyone accepts him as a human being"


LOL

try again

and btw... your top 15 list is probably the worst ive ever seen. and thats impressive all in itself since i see re*tards every day on here and other boards

[CLTHornets4eva]

bill simmons was never a player, coach, gm, or owner

hes a writer with an agenda for a hype machine

hes basically a message board poster who gets paid to troll

not only that. he was litterally quoted saying he hates kobe and thinks "he was that kid who nobody likes and looks awkward at partys and gets impressed if anyone accepts him as a human being"


LOL

try again

and btw... your top 15 list is probably the worst ive ever seen. and thats impressive all in itself since i see re*tards every day on here and other boards

:blah :blah

Well that was his top 15 not mine. :hammerhead:

Also players and GM's usually don't make stupid projections like "who the number 2 player ever is". I will take an NBA expert like Bill Simmons over you, Kenneth.
:blah

[kennethgriffin]

:blah :blah

Well that was his top 15 not mine. :hammerhead:

Also players and GM's usually don't make stupid projections like "who the number 2 player ever is". I will take an NBA expert like Bill Simmons over you, Kenneth.
:blah


its bill freakin simmons ( the admited ---he actually did-- kobe hater )


hey... why dont you bust out some bruce blitz quotes while your at it :roll:


man... like i said before... you and your kind are pathetic for 1 reason that i will keep bringing up time and time and time again


NO ONE IMPORTANT AGREES WITH YOU... EVERYONE IMPORTANT AGREES WITH ME


no one... and i repeat ... NO ONE with a valid opinion ( I.E. a representative of BASKETBALL ) agrees with you or bill simmons

only fans carry a unique grudge of hate and spite that comes with getting beat down by the man himself


kobe has made you get on your hands and knees and pray against him

i know so. ive seen it with my own 2 eyes.. ive actually seen kobe haters do this

they pray to god whenever kobes in a position to win. they say "please god... no... dont let kobe win another ring."

but it never works. you know why? because god plays for the lakers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY9HjNWbJvA

[StateProperty]

I'm sure Iggy saw a ton of Jordan growing up in Illinois. Iggy and Kobe share a strong respect for each other. Phil Jackson said that he's never seen anyone guard Kobe as well as Dre.

[CLTHornets4eva]

All time PER

1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.10
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.43
4. David Robinson* 26.18
5. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
6. Dwyane Wade 25.61
7. Bob Pettit* 25.35
8. Chris Paul 25.24
9. Tim Duncan 24.77
10. Neil Johnston* 24.63
11. Charles Barkley* 24.63
12. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58
13. Magic Johnson* 24.11
14. Karl Malone* 23.90
15. Dirk Nowitzki 23.64
16. Hakeem Olajuwon* 23.59
17. Kobe Bryant 23.58

Maybe you don't believe in PER Kenneth. :lol

You have such a keen eye for basketball you should right articles for ESPN.

[CLTHornets4eva]

All time PER

1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.10
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.43
4. David Robinson* 26.18
5. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
6. Dwyane Wade 25.61
7. Bob Pettit* 25.35
8. Chris Paul 25.24
9. Tim Duncan 24.77
10. Neil Johnston* 24.63
11. Charles Barkley* 24.63
12. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58
13. Magic Johnson* 24.11
14. Karl Malone* 23.90
15. Dirk Nowitzki 23.64
16. Hakeem Olajuwon* 23.59
17. Kobe Bryant 23.58

Maybe you don't believe in PER Kenneth. :lol

You have such a keen eye for basketball you should right articles for ESPN.

[LakersReign]

All time PER

1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.10
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.43
4. David Robinson* 26.18
5. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
6. Dwyane Wade 25.61
7. Bob Pettit* 25.35
8. Chris Paul 25.24
9. Tim Duncan 24.77
10. Neil Johnston* 24.63
11. Charles Barkley* 24.63
12. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58
13. Magic Johnson* 24.11
14. Karl Malone* 23.90
15. Dirk Nowitzki 23.64
16. Hakeem Olajuwon* 23.59
17. Kobe Bryant 23.58

Maybe you don't believe in PER Kenneth. :lol

You have such a keen eye for basketball you should right articles for ESPN.

PER is a b.s so called "advanced stat" invented by another ESPN cronie named John Hollinger. Who has publicly admitted to his formula being flawed and shouldn't be taken as an absolute. So anybody still using it as an absolute is only using it cuz they're obviously reaching:facepalm

[monkeypox]

Shaq deserves to be ahead of Kobe, because he's the one that carried him to his first few rings.

He literally carried Kobe.

Without Shaq, Kobe would not have won, period.

Same thing with Pau really.

You can't be a GOAT like MJ if you have played side kick for most of your rings


Yeah it's totally proven given how many title teams Shaq lead without Kobe, and how many title teams Kobe lead without Shaq. Oh wait, reality happens to be the opposite. So I wonder who carried who, and who got the benefit of beating up on weak east coast teams in the finals after the real finals were done.

[CLTHornets4eva]

PER is a b.s so called "advanced stat" invented by another ESPN cronie named John Hollinger. Who has publicly admitted to his formula being flawed and shouldn't be taken as an absolute. So anybody still using it as an absolute is only using it cuz they're obviously reaching:facepalm

Well there isn't any other way to compile a list of the top 10 all time players. There is no flawless way to compile such a list. Few if any other major writers have a list of top ten players. I'm not reaching, I'm just giving the only concrete info there is on the subject. You and your fellow Laker homer Kenneth have only been spewing your own opinions and little else.

We get it from MJ (who obviously with the handling of the Bobcats) is a horrible player evaluator and Iggy a non college graduate who is a fringe allstar who has an opinion. Ill take two of the top writers in the game.

[rodman91]

At least he is paid for playing the game, not talk about it. :hammerhead:

[pauk]

Even Jordan himself said that Kobe is the only one worthy enough to be compared to him.

I don't recall him saying that about anybody else.

I have no idea what Jordan is talking about... how about Tim Duncan? He certianly had even better career than Kobe....

[LakersReign]

Well there isn't any other way to compile a list of the top 10 all time players. There is no flawless way to compile such a list. Few if any other major writers have a list of top ten players. I'm not reaching, I'm just giving the only concrete info there is on the subject. You and your fellow Laker homer Kenneth have only been spewing your own opinions and little else.

We get it from MJ (who obviously with the handling of the Bobcats) is a horrible player evaluator and Iggy a non college graduate who is a fringe allstar who has an opinion. Ill take two of the top writers in the game.

Please. There weren't any so called "advanced stats" during the Jordan, Magic, Bird, or Kareem days, but yet they were still ranked as some of the greatest in the game without PER, so you still reaching there. Love it how you tried to bypass the fact that Hollinger admits his formula is flawed cuz without PER, your so called "argument" has no validity. And of course, you're an obvious Kobe hater, so you're stupid enough to take ANYBODY'S biased opinion about Kobe, whether they're credible, or not. Big surprise:rolleyes:

[CLTHornets4eva]

Please. There weren't any so called "advanced stats" during the Jordan, Magic, Bird, or Kareem days, but yet they were still ranked as some of the greatest in the game without PER, so you still reaching there. And of course, you're an obvious Kobe hater, so you're stupid enough to take ANYBODY'S biased opinion about Kobe, whether they know anything about the NBA or not. Big surprise:rolleyes:

Well I think Simmons and Hollinger know the NBA.

I'm not a hater because I put him outside of #2. I am not a Lakers hater or fan. You obviously love the Lakers and Kobe and just because I don't have homer opinions doesn't make me a hater.

And your stupid enough to take anyones biased opinion about Kobe. (MJ & AI)
#hypocrite

[LakersReign]

Well I think Simmons and Hollinger know the NBA.

I'm not a hater because I put him outside of #2. I am not a Lakers hater or fan. You obviously love the Lakers and Kobe and just because I don't have homer opinions doesn't make me a hater.

And your stupid enough to take anyones biased opinion about Kobe. (MJ & AI)
#hypocrite

ALL Kobe haters quote PER like it's an absolute, when I say again Hollinger himself said it's flawed. So....I'm supposedly a hypocrite for taking the opinions of MJ and AI as credible cuz they've played the game. But you're supposedly not one for taking the opinions of people who've never played, as fact. Even though one of them admits to using a flawed system that you quote as an absolute, when he himself said it shouldn't be used that way. While doing all this based ONLY on your Kobe hatred?!:wtf:

Try learning what a big word like that means before using it in a sentence, to avoid embarrassing yourself the way you just did. Try again:no:

[RazorBaLade]

All time PER

1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.10
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.43
4. David Robinson* 26.18
5. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
6. Dwyane Wade 25.61
7. Bob Pettit* 25.35
8. Chris Paul 25.24
9. Tim Duncan 24.77
10. Neil Johnston* 24.63
11. Charles Barkley* 24.63
12. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58
13. Magic Johnson* 24.11
14. Karl Malone* 23.90
15. Dirk Nowitzki 23.64
16. Hakeem Olajuwon* 23.59
17. Kobe Bryant 23.58

Maybe you don't believe in PER Kenneth. :lol

You have such a keen eye for basketball you should right articles for ESPN.

you cant look at this list and say oh man kobe 17th, heres proof that kobe is overrated but see david robinson 4th. Theres just no way u think hes the 4th best player of all time.. PEr is the ultimate pick and choose stat. Chris paul is better than magic eh? Nah people ignore that but think kobes spot is validated =/

I hate per. its an insult to jordan and lebron if u need to use per to say they are good.. or to say someones bad..


I have no idea what Jordan is talking about... how about Tim Duncan? He certianly had even better career than Kobe....

i really dunno about duncan having a better career...

[824]

Well I think Simmons and Hollinger know the NBA.

I'm not a hater because I put him outside of #2. I am not a Lakers hater or fan. You obviously love the Lakers and Kobe and just because I don't have homer opinions doesn't make me a hater.

And your stupid enough to take anyones biased opinion about Kobe. (MJ & AI)
#hypocrite

You're not a hater? :hammerhead: Now I've seen everything.

Get over it, you have your little opinion as does everyone else, if you need to write off anyone that doesn't line up with you to justify your 'opinion' whatever, we don't care. Most people are going to take people like MJ, Iggy, coaches, many of the players in the league today, over you, so by your stupid #hypocrite logic you've tripped over yourself. Or is it not hypocritical to say someone is taking anyone's biased opinion about Kobe while spewing biased shit around? :roll:

[ImmortalD24]

This is how I have it. And no Kobe is not and will never be 2nd GOAT behind MJ.

Tier 1:
Michael Jordan
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Bill Russell

Tier 2:
Wilt Chamberlain

Tier 3: (in no particular order)
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Shaquille O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan

HM: Hakeem Olajuwon

I know I'll get flamed for this, but once Duncan/Kobe retire, it'll get even closer and closer between those 5 players.

[Doranku]

All time PER

1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.10
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.43
4. David Robinson* 26.18
5. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
6. Dwyane Wade 25.61
7. Bob Pettit* 25.35
8. Chris Paul 25.24
9. Tim Duncan 24.77
10. Neil Johnston* 24.63
11. Charles Barkley* 24.63
12. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58
13. Magic Johnson* 24.11
14. Karl Malone* 23.90
15. Dirk Nowitzki 23.64
16. Hakeem Olajuwon* 23.59
17. Kobe Bryant 23.58

Maybe you don't believe in PER Kenneth. :lol

You have such a keen eye for basketball you should right articles for ESPN.
:roll: @ the likes of Robinson, Pettit, Johnston, and Wade over Kareem and Magic.


What an awful way to rank players. :facepalm

[ImmortalD24]

All time PER

1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.10
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.43
4. David Robinson* 26.18
5. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
6. Dwyane Wade 25.61
7. Bob Pettit* 25.35
8. Chris Paul 25.24
9. Tim Duncan 24.77
10. Neil Johnston* 24.63
11. Charles Barkley* 24.63
12. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58
13. Magic Johnson* 24.11
14. Karl Malone* 23.90
15. Dirk Nowitzki 23.64
16. Hakeem Olajuwon* 23.59
17. Kobe Bryant 23.58

Maybe you don't believe in PER Kenneth. :lol

You have such a keen eye for basketball you should right articles for ESPN.Why stop there?

18. Larry Bird* 23.50
19. Kevin Garnett 23.37
20. Oscar Robertson* 23.17
21. Yao Ming 23.02
22. Jerry West* 22.90
23. Elgin Baylor* 22.70

Well I guess that settles it.. Dirk> Bird, Chris Paul> Magic, D-Wade> Duncan and D-Rob> Kareem. Goodday sir.

[OldSchoolBBall]

so you think out of all the players in nba history.. none of them were ever even half as good as jordan ( hense the 5 to 10 )

so kobe is a 50 out of 100 in your eyes


na i would say kobe is a 98 and no one else ever got to 95+

kobe is as close to jordan as it gets.. only thing keeping him from being 100 is he takes some bad shots sometimes when he forces it

after that theyre basically the same player

This is absurd. Kobe's impact is not nearly what KAJ's, Wilt's, Shaq's Magic's or Bird's were at the very least - never mind Jordan. lol @ 98%. Try 90-92% prime vs. prime. Guys like KAJ and Shaq were at 95-98% of Jordan in their primes.

Jordan's defensive impact alone takes a steaming dump on Kobe's. Do yourself a favor and educate yourself.

[32Dayz]

Kobe isnt a Top 10# All-Time playoff performer.
He probably isnt a Top 10# All-Time player.

Circumstances have let him win many Rings but this does not enhance his ability or value as an individual player.
For 4 of his 5 rings he was the 2nd best player on his own team and for 3 of them he was a clear 2nd banana.

The 3 best players ever or "3 best playoff performers" are
1. Jordan
2. Shaq
3. Kareem

No one else comes close to their production/impact and longevity in the playoffs

The idea that Kobe could even be compared to one of these players is a joke.

Jordan for pretty much the entirety or at worse the majority of his career was better then Kobe at his absolute Peak.
Kareem for the majority of his Career was better then Kobe at his absolute Peak.
Shaq from 94-05 was better then Kobe at his absolute Peak.

Even DWade is proving himself to be a better playoff performer and thus (imo) a better player then Kobe was. If not for longevity at this point I would have no issue making a case that DWade is the better player between the two. He has certainly so far been proving himself to be the better playoff and Finals performer.
Both him and Lebron are likely to surpass Kobe by time their Careers end.

1. Jordan
2. Shaq
3. Kareem
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Hakeem
8. Duncan
9. Russell
10. West

Kobe certainly has little to no argument over anyone on this list outside of maybe West.

All the other players were far better during their first 13 years and during their young and prime years. Rings or not they were far more valuable and impactful players and ranking Kobe ahead of them would be a simple travesty and disrespect to those past greats.

Kobe is in the 11-15 Bracket with Oscar Robertson, Moses Malone, Kevin Garnett and Dr. J.

That is the highest he will ever get.

/Thread.

[Psileas]

Jordan is a 99, kareem is 98. The difference between them might be 2 or 3 made jordan shots that propelled his career to godlike status.

Funnily enough, Kareem has also closed a tightrope series with a game-winning shot (1979 Western Semis vs Denver), yet, not only isn't that shot widely known, there hardly exists any footage of it in the web - I guess it does exist, but I've never seen it. Can you imagine its rough equivalent (Jordan's '89 "The Shot" vs Cleveland) never having been aired for multiple years and some day appearing among his "apocrypha"?

[bwink23]

so you think out of all the players in nba history.. none of them were ever even half as good as jordan ( hense the 5 to 10 )

so kobe is a 50 out of 100 in your eyes


na i would say kobe is a 98 and no one else ever got to 95+

kobe is as close to jordan as it gets.. only thing keeping him from being 100 is he takes some bad shots sometimes when he forces it

after that theyre basically the same player



You are undeniably a MORON.....:hammerhead:

[guy]

E) jordan is not a better passer. pippen played pg for the bulls all those years and was bringing the ball up the court.

Bringing the ball up court doesn't mean he's a better passer.

[INDI]

Here is the problem when it comes to ranking Kobe, there is absolutely too much bias going on to get a fair assessment. Everyone agrees he's top ten, but how high up he ranks has differed tremendously by fan/not fan. Let's look for example at a couple of arguments against him. A player in the league says he's the second greatest, the argument is " he doesnt know the history. Magic Johnson himself said that Kobe is better than himself, the argument then is " well he's an analyst and doesn't want to look cocky. How can you get a fair assessment when you have people bent on not giving him his proper ranking.

When it comes to other players, accomplishments are brought up all day long but with Kobe they say he shouldn't have won his MVP, or his finals MVP, and don't even mention the fact that he has been first team all defense for about a decade. Unfortunately we will have to wait a few years after he retires to really get unbiased opinions.


P.S I rank him at 4 alltime

[32Dayz]

P.S I rank him at 4 alltime

Its beyond ridiculous to rank him that low.
He just simply wasn't that good of a player. :facepalm

Best player on 1 championship team.
Certainly not one of the 10 best playoff performers ever.

He is at best the 5th best player of this era.

Jordan > Shaq >>> Hakeem > Duncan >>>>> KG/Kobe

[INDI]

Dude let me put it like this, my daughter was a new born when people was arguing a out Kobe being one of the top guys in the league. I remember there was a bunch of us arguing about this and she would be sleep in the crib. She will be ten in a few months and he is still one of the best in the league.

Even if you don't respect the statistical accomplishments, the rings, the mvp's, the decade long defensive first team selections. Does longevity not have it's place??????????? The dude deserves his rank man

[INDI]

The multiple strings of 40+ in a row, the tons of late game heroics, the ability to help other arenas sell out seats when he comes to town, the passion to triumph, the practicing on his game IN ANOTHER TEAMS arena after a loss, where even the opposing coach came out to watch him, the respect and praise from almost every single basketball peer, the fact that Magic himself said Kobe was better, need I mention 81 in a game????? Need I mention that he may finish his career scoring the second most points in NBA history. And you had the nerve to mention KG shaq and Duncan???????????????????????????????????. Dude your watching greatness

[Scholar]

Iggy telling it how it is.


I remember in 2006, KB24 said he'd love to have Iguodala play alongside him. I wish Iggy was able to come to LAL and replace Barnes/World Peace at the SF position. :(

[32Dayz]

Longevity is nice and all but many of the other ATGreats have the same trait so that doesn't make Kobe special.

Even if he did have special longevity (which he doesn't) it wouldn't make up for the fact that his playoff performances and especially his finals performances over the years in comparison to many of the ATGreats are highly unimpressive.

I find it hard to say there aren't 10+ players who you can call better playoff performers then Kobe some even from this era. (Wade)

99% of his statistical accomplishments are related to volume shooting over time or involve racking up high scoring games against
shitty sub -.500 teams in the regular season.

Just saying... neither are overly impressive when comparing him to the best ever.

[INDI]

Sub par 500 teams???? Soooooo your laming Kobe for tearing up Corny teams? Dont every player in the league play against these same sub par teams and have the same opportunity? And as far as jacking up shots let's get something straight, the difference between a career 45% shooter and a 50% career shooter, when you shoot 20x a game is 1 shot. That's it homey, Kobe misses 1 more shot a game than guys that are 50%

[TheMarkMadsen]

Its beyond ridiculous to rank him that low.
He just simply wasn't that good of a player. :facepalm

Best player on 1 championship team.
Certainly not one of the 10 best playoff performers ever.

He is at best the 5th best player of this era.
Jordan > Shaq >>> Hakeem > Duncan >>>>> KG/Kobe

hmmmm...

5th best player of this era according to 32Dayz.

1 Finals MVP according to 32Dayz.

Best player of the decade according to sporting news.

2 Finals MVP's according to the record books.

Considered the best player in the league by his peers, and coaches, and
an easy lock for top 10 all time according to a vast majority of former
NBA players & coaches,Not whiny butthurt kids who get balled up by
smush parker at their local basketball court.

32Dayz, my question to you is this: Do you really beleive that your opinion is somehow more valuable, and informed than past & present NBA players:wtf:

[guy]

The multiple strings of 40+ in a row, the tons of late game heroics, the ability to help other arenas sell out seats when he comes to town, the passion to triumph, the practicing on his game IN ANOTHER TEAMS arena after a loss, where even the opposing coach came out to watch him, the respect and praise from almost every single basketball peer, the fact that Magic himself said Kobe was better, need I mention 81 in a game????? Need I mention that he may finish his career scoring the second most points in NBA history. And you had the nerve to mention KG shaq and Duncan???????????????????????????????????. Dude your watching greatness

Are you serious about the bolded? That means nothing. If Kobe is better then Shaq or Duncan, its not cause of that.

[32Dayz]

hmmmm...

5th best player of this era according to 32Dayz.

1 Finals MVP according to 32Dayz.

Best player of the decade according to sporting news.

2 Finals MVP's according to the record books.

Considered the best player in the league by his peers, and coaches, and
an easy lock for top 10 all time according to a vast majority of former
NBA players & coaches,Not whiny butthurt kids who get balled up by
smush parker at their local basketball court.

32Dayz, my question to you is this: Do you really beleive that your opinion is somehow more valuable, and informed than past & present NBA players:wtf:

Yea ESPN polls also says Lebron is the 3rd best player of the 00's and that Kobe is the 2nd best player after Jordan.

Many of their analysts have even gone as far to claim he is the GOAT.

If you're dumb enough to back up your opinions using their opinions or polls as facts then you dont have much to stand on.

Jordan > Shaq >>> Duncan > Hakeem >>>>> KG/Kobe
Kobe is the 5th best player of this era/generation and somewhere from 11-15th All-Time.
In the 00's I'd say he was 3rd best player after Shaq and Duncan but for those who overly value him having an extra year or two of longevity in comparison to them despite the fact that it came playng at a level far below those two were at earlier in the decade then I dont mind saying Kobe is #1.

FMVP's have certainly been given out to the wrong players before aswell as many MVP's and countless All-Team awards.

Acting like something being in the record book automatically means its correct is laughable.

Gasol is a nobody and Kobe is a star with a huge fan base.
It makes the league and ESPN far more money to give the trophy to Kobe and no one will care because Gasol is a European with a small US fanbase.

Gasol was clearly better then Kobe in 3 of the 4 Finals wins in 2010 and should have won FMVP.

[kennethgriffin]

is there a single current or past player, coach, gm or owner that has said kobe is not top 10 all time or better right now?

how many times do i have to ask this?

all we ever see is kobe getting ranked top 5 by these people

yet some people on here put him 11-15

its just proof that we're right and you're wrong


if mostly everyone in the music industry says jimmy hendrix is the best guitar player ever

but a few people on a message board rank him as a bum compared to bucket head.

who looks worse? the fans agreeing with the legendary people. or the few nitwits like 32dayz and his boyfriends lol

:roll:

[32Dayz]

ESPN agrees with me so I know im right!

:oldlol:

[ThatsGame]

is there a single current or past player, coach, gm or owner that has said kobe is not top 10 all time or better right now?

how many times do i have to ask this?

all we ever see is kobe getting ranked top 5 by these people

yet some people on here put him 11-15

its just proof that we're right and you're wrong


if mostly everyone in the music industry says jimmy hendrix is the best guitar player ever

but a few people on a message board rank him as a bum compared to bucket head.

who looks worse? the fans agreeing with the legendary people. or the few nitwits like 32dayz and his boyfriends lol

:roll:

The fact of the matter is the fans probably know a hell of a lot more than many players and coaches.

[32Dayz]

The fact of the matter is the fans probably know a hell of a lot more than many players and coaches.

Yup.

Fans > Analysts > Players / Coaches

[Mor'Fiyah]

The fact of the matter is the fans probably know a hell of a lot more than many players and coaches.

Its mindless, self-righteous garbage like this that makes me want to delete my account. As a matter of fact I think I'll just do tha... *

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The fact of the matter is the fans probably know a hell of a lot more than many players and coaches.

:facepalm

[kennethgriffin]

The fact of the matter is the fans probably know a hell of a lot more than many players and coaches.

the fans rank kobe 3rd all time :roll:

espn poll done last year

#1 Jordan
#2 Magic
#3 Kobe

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/rank?versionId=1&listId=293#topOfList

OWNED

[ThatsGame]

Its mindless, self-righteous garbage like this that makes me want to delete my account. As a matter of fact I think I'll just do tha... *

Bye. You clearly aren't thinking very hard about it anyway.

[32Dayz]

The players are the ones playing not watching all the players in the bigger picture of things.

Fans can watch players for years and analyze their effectiveness and ability on both sides of the floor while players mostly just develop little bits of insight on certain special opponents they face.

Fans / Analysts > Players/Coaches.

[ThatsGame]

the fans rank kobe 3rd all time :roll:

espn poll done last year

#1 Jordan
#2 Magic
#3 Kobe

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/rank?versionId=1&listId=293#topOfList

OWNED

Espn is garbage. No real fans are voting in those, or at least not very many smart ones.

[32Dayz]

Espn is garbage

Yup, media driven drivel at its best.

[kennethgriffin]

Espn is garbage


lol espn is full of kobe hating scum bag fans and even they vote kobe the 3rd best player ever


you and 32dayz got an excuse for EEERRRRRTHANG LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[LakersReign]

Espn is garbage


But yet you and all the other bandwagon Lebron fans repeat ON COMMAND, everything they say about Lebron like pathetic parrots because..............?!:confusedshrug:



Nice try:applause:

[Bigsmoke]

Kobe is an all time great. Top 10 player at that. But I don't know. I just never believe he was ever Hakeem or Bird good.

[32Dayz]

lol espn is full of kobe hating scum bag fans.

Only you could be delusional enough to actually believe this.

ESPN almost has Kobes phallus as deep in their mouth as you do.

[kennethgriffin]

Only you could be delusional enough to actually believe this.

ESPN almost has Kobes phallus as deep in their mouth as you do.

you got exposed!!!!!

LOL


32 dayz "fans know more than players, coaches, gms, owners"



i post a link to a fan poll on espn ranking kobe the 3rd GOAT



32 dayz replys "OMG THAT DOESNT COUNT! ITS ESPN"



hypocrite POS LOOOOOOOL you post PER's and links from that site ALL THE TIME

its your reference site because you know its an anti kobe pro lebron stat stuffing site with an agenda

they hire abbot, simmons, stein, hollinger and many more that are hating on kobe 24/7

LMFAO YOU PATHETIC LOSER...

you just got ETHERED...

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Mor'Fiyah]

The players are the ones playing not watching all the players in the bigger picture of things.

Fans can watch players for years and analyze their effectiveness and ability on both sides of the floor while players mostly just develop little bits of insight on certain special opponents they face.

Fans / Analysts > Players/Coaches.

I can tell people like you and ThatsGame never played team sports... Anyone who has played a team sport knows the players have inside knowledge on the game that a fan will just never have. Now, bear in mind, I am in no way insisting that you MUST be wrong. What I am saying is that Kobe Bryant is ARGUABLY right there in the discussion with MJ and the other top 5 or so players in history. To completely dismiss that you MIGHT be wrong and that he MIGHT be top 5 is self righteous throw-up. To then also dismiss the opinions of people who 100% have an inside track into the game itself over you goes beyond self-righteousness into the realms of egotistic ignorance.

Not that I think you'll change your minds... nor do I care... but perhaps you guys can approach things with a little more open-mindedness. I for one think Kobe is top 5... but I am not entirely against the arguments he might be outside the top 5 (there are some good arguments for it).

[Mor'Fiyah]

you got exposed!!!!!

LOL


32 dayz "fans know more than players, coaches, gms, owners"





What you have to understand is that posters like that NEVER mean what they say. What he actually meant to say is that "Fans who think exactly like he does know more than players, coaches, gms, and owners who do not think exactly like he does".

[LakersReign]

What you have to understand is that posters like that NEVER mean what they say. What he actually meant to say is that "Fans who think exactly like he does know more than players, coaches, gms, and owners who do not think exactly like he does".


And if that hot garbage was ever even true, then he'd be on ESPN/ESPN.com, NBATV/NBA.com, FoxSports, Ball Don't Lie, etc....GETTING PAID, not on here FOR FREE. The reason why he's on here cuz nobody gives a damn about his pathetic hater opinion, besides him and morons just like him. Who have no life outside of the internet and have to come online making up stuff to make themselves feel better:facepalm

[32Dayz]

Sorry but you're just wrong.

There isn't a difference of opinions here.

There is no logical way 0% to try and argue Kobe being a Top 5 player.

He isn't even remotely close to Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, Duncan, Hakeem, Magic, Russell and he wasn't better then Wilt or Bird.

I also think its clear to knowledgeable fans that West was a better player and playoff performer and I think its pretty difficult to make a case for Kobe over him and it would probably have to be based almost primarily on team success which is a weak argument considering who they played with and what teams that had to win against.

Sadly most fans wont even know who West is and probably started watching basketball in 2003-2006.

Kobe is somewhere from 11-15 on the GOAT list as an individual player.

[LakersReign]

Sorry but your just wrong.

There isnt a differnece of opinions here.

There is no logical way 0% to try and argue Kobe being a Top 5 player.

He isn't even remotely close to Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, Duncan, Hakeem, Magic, Russell and he wasn't better then Wilt or Bird.

I also think its clear to knowledgeable fans that West was a better player and playoff performer and I think its pretty difficult to make a case for Kobe over him and it would probably have to be based almost primarily on team success which is a weak argument considering who they played with and what teams that had to win against.

Sadly most fans wont even know who West is and probably started watching basketball in 2003-2006.

Kobe is somewhere from 11-15 on the GOAT list as an individual player.



But when that same Jerry West says Kobe is the greatest Laker, all of a sudden he supposedly doesn't know what he's talking about....right?!:rolleyes:

Then you wonder why only morons just like him, listen to him or take anything he says seriously:hammerhead:

[kennethgriffin]

Sorry but you're just wrong.

There isn't a difference of opinions here.

There is no logical way 0% to try and argue Kobe being a Top 5 player.

He isn't even remotely close to Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, Duncan, Hakeem, Magic, Russell and he wasn't better then Wilt or Bird.

I also think its clear to knowledgeable fans that West was a better player and playoff performer and I think its pretty difficult to make a case for Kobe over him and it would probably have to be based almost primarily on team success which is a weak argument considering who they played with and what teams that had to win against.

Sadly most fans wont even know who West is and probably started watching basketball in 2003-2006.

Kobe is somewhere from 11-15 on the GOAT list as an individual player.

didn't you just get blasted with p*ss?

why are you still here



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Mor'Fiyah]

Sorry but you're just wrong.

There isn't a difference of opinions here.

There is no logical way 0% to try and argue Kobe being a Top 5 player.

He isn't even remotely close to Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, Duncan, Hakeem, Magic, Russell and he wasn't better then Wilt or Bird.

I also think its clear to knowledgeable fans that West was a better player and playoff performer and I think its pretty difficult to make a case for Kobe over him and it would probably have to be based almost primarily on team success which is a weak argument considering who they played with and what teams that had to win against.

Sadly most fans wont even know who West is and probably started watching basketball in 2003-2006.

Kobe is somewhere from 11-15 on the GOAT list as an individual player.

And again I will point out that anytime someone argues subjectively from a place where the notion of them being wrong is impossible I cannot help but dismiss their opinions entirely. That kind of thought process is the reason racism, religious intolerance, bigotry etc exist.

[32Dayz]

And again I will point out that anytime someone argues subjectively from a place where the notion of them being wrong is impossible I cannot help but dismiss their opinions entirely. That kind of thought process is the reason racism, religious intolerance, bigotry etc exist.

lol I am not racist or intolerant.

I dont mind your opinion and I completely respect your right to have it.

However its my "opinion" that your opinion is completely illogical and false/wrong.

:cheers:

It can be my opinion that the sky is purple but in reality its not.
Yes I am allowed to have that opinion but it doesn't mean I am even 1% right.

[Mr Know It All]

Prime Kobe was the 2nd best player on a team that didn't feature Michael Jordan. In other words, Iggy is buying into ESPN hype. Kobe is in the 15-10 range all time. Top 3-5 scorer of all time even if he was a volume scorer for much of his career, not near efficient enough to be considered even top 5 all time, sorry.

[swi7ch]

i can't seriously make the comparison knowing that kobe has quit on his team at least two times in the playoffs and finals whereas jordan hasn't

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

i can't seriously make the comparison knowing that kobe has quit on his team at least two times in the playoffs and finals whereas jordan hasn't

Kobe just passed Mike in 2 categories the same game. MJ had 41,010 career minutes; Kobe now has 41,020 (with less points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks yet MORE turnovers to show for it). Mike also had 15,269 combined missed shots and turnovers; Kobe now has 15,279 combined missed shots and turnovers.

History in the making :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[TheMarkMadsen]

The players are the ones playing not watching all the players in the bigger picture of things.

Fans can watch players for years and analyze their effectiveness and ability on both sides of the floor while players mostly just develop little bits of insight on certain special opponents they face.

Fans / Analysts > Players/Coaches.


Hahaha:lol. Kid listen up, iggy has watched more film on other teams in the past few months than you ever will in your life.

And I'm no talking about sportscenters top 10 either, I'm talking about watching an re watching every play looking for the slightest bit ok weakness that they can tak. advantage of

[Nevaeh]

Kobe just passed Mike in 2 categories the same game. MJ had 41,010 career minutes; Kobe now has 41,020 (with less points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks yet MORE turnovers to show for it). Mike also had 15,269 combined missed shots and turnovers; Kobe now has 15,279 combined missed shots and turnovers.

History in the making :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Bu bu bu....those first 2 years don't count.......:rolleyes:

[32Dayz]

Hahaha:lol. Kid listen up, iggy has watched more film on other teams in the past few months than you ever will in your life.

Are you related to him?
How do you know this?

[millwad]

Are you related to him?
How do you know this?

Brian, when will the trolling end?

[guy]

Kobe just passed Mike in 2 categories the same game. MJ had 41,010 career minutes; Kobe now has 41,020 (with less points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks yet MORE turnovers to show for it). Mike also had 15,269 combined missed shots and turnovers; Kobe now has 15,279 combined missed shots and turnovers.

History in the making :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Wow. Thats quite telling. Jordan has more missed shots, but Kobe has more turnovers. Its amazing that Jordan destroys him in totals and averages for EVERYTHING but turnovers. There's no reason people should bring up "Kobe didn't get to play much his first few years, he had to play with Shaq, etc" when this is the case.

[jlip]

This may come as a surprise to many fans, but players don't make a habit of going on the internet to look up the career accomplishments (i.e # of MVPs, rings, FMPVs, etc.) along with stats of all time greats in order to make their rankings like the average poster does when making his rankings. They don't say, "Well, 'player X' wasn't 'The Man' when he won his titles" (except for when ranking Pippen) as they are formulating their rankings. Their all time great lists are often based upon "gut feelings" along with a bias in favor of the players of their generation. That's why older players from the 60's and 70's still consider Wilt, Russell, or Kareem the GOAT. Most players today know little to nothing about players before the 80's when they were born. I remember Shaq saying something to the effect that before he spoke to Bill Russell he basically didn't know much about the NBA prior to Dr. J.

[guy]

This may come as a surprise to many fans, but players don't make a habit of going on the internet to look up the career accomplishments (i.e # of MVPs, rings, FMPVs, etc.) along with stats of all time greats in order to make their rankings like the average poster does when making his rankings. They don't say, "Well, 'player X' wasn't 'The Man' when he won his titles" (except for when ranking Pippen) as they are formulating their rankings. Their all time great lists are often based upon "gut feelings" along with a bias in favor of the players of their generation. That's why older players from the 60's and 70's still consider Wilt, Russell, or Kareem the GOAT. Most players today know little to nothing about players before the 80's when they were born. I remember Shaq saying something to the effect that before he spoke to Bill Russell he basically didn't know much about the NBA prior to Dr. J.

When Lenny Wilkins coached Shaq in the 96 Olympics, Shaq didn't even know he was a former player. And Lenny wasn't just any former player, he was a HOFer. I believe I remember hearing that Jordan and Bird didn't really even watch the NBA growing up cause it wasn't available to them on TV. And I highly doubt they ever found the time after that to watch and research players like Wilt, Russell, Oscar, and West. I don't really blame players for not knowing their history cause they are probably too busy to even look into that cause they've spent pretty much all of the minutes of their life working on becoming a great player. It doesn't mean they don't know anything and don't have certain advantages over others when it comes to their education of the game, but it hardly means there opinion is so much more superior then your average joe if at all.

[CLTHornets4eva]

When Lenny Wilkins coached Shaq in the 96 Olympics, Shaq didn't even know he was a former player. And Lenny wasn't just any former player, he was a HOFer. I believe I remember hearing that Jordan and Bird didn't really even watch the NBA growing up cause it wasn't available to them on TV. And I highly doubt they ever found the time after that to watch and research players like Wilt, Russell, Oscar, and West. I don't really blame players for not knowing their history cause they are probably too busy to even look into that cause they've spent pretty much all of the minutes of their life working on becoming a great player. It doesn't mean they don't know anything and don't have certain advantages over others when it comes to their education of the game, but it hardly means there opinion is so much more superior then your average joe if at all.

This opinion that players know the game more is simply laughable. A writer who has spend his whole adult live while learning the sport and researching its history versus a player who has been playing it for 10-20 years is incomparable. Plus how many players and GM's especially are going to come up with a ****ing list of the top players ever? None of them have! Only a couple big mouths like MJ and Iggy make some big claims about Kobe and all the Kobe homers on here go crazy.

Remove your lips from Kobe's shaft and do some research.

[guy]

This opinion that players know the game more is simply laughable. A writer who has spend his whole adult live while learning the sport and researching its history versus a player who has been playing it for 10-20 years is incomparable. Plus how many players and GM's especially are going to come up with a ****ing list of the top players ever? None of them have! Only a couple big mouths like MJ and Iggy make some big claims about Kobe and all the Kobe homers on here go crazy.

Remove your lips from Kobe's shaft and do some research.

Here's a great example of this. All these Kobe fans keep pointing out that all these analysts/players/former players say Kobe is top 2, top 5, blah blah, etc. They also say someone like Oscar Robertson is top 5 or top 10. Alot of them say he was greater then Kobe. I remember Barkley saying Oscar was 2nd behind Jordan. I've never ever heard any of these Kobe fans say the same thing about Oscar.

If you want to think Kobe is top 5 or whatever, nothing wrong with that. I disagree, but its not really far-fetched that he can't be there by the time his long career is over. But pointing out analysts/players/former players' opinions like there some kind of gospel is kinda stupid. Especially cause just like regular fans, they disagree with each other and don't have the same opinions either.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

i can't seriously make the comparison knowing that kobe has quit on his team at least two times in the playoffs and finals whereas jordan hasn't

Didn't Jordan prematurely retire twice? :oldlol:

[Boston C's]

Didn't Jordan prematurely retire twice? :oldlol:

retiring and literally quitting in the middle of a basketball game are 2 different things


try again

[CLTHornets4eva]

Didn't Jordan prematurely retire twice? :oldlol:

Well he didn't quit in the playoffs either time. He quit after winning rings. And as Finals MVP nonetheless.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

retiring and literally quitting in the middle of a basketball game are 2 different things


try again

Yeah one is actually abandoning a championship level team to sit the bench for the Birmingham Barons, the other is human nature when its impossible to win.

:facepalm

[thelucifer69]

A) both kobe and jordan for the first half of their careers were drive then shoot guys. and the later years shoot first drive second.

A) MJ, Kobe have same drive/shoot ratio your word

B) kobe in his prime is a top 10 dunker of all time and even in his 16th season was doing windmills in exibitions not too long ago

C) kobe for most of his career was a legit stopper and currently holds the record with jordan for all defensive 1st teams. sure the last few were off rep. but no more than a few years ago in the olympics he was being used as a main stopper for the other teams best players

D) kobe and jordan have equally great post moves

E) jordan is not a better passer. pippen played pg for the bulls all those years and was bringing the ball up the court. kobe on the other hand had to do that job and score while fishers 1 dimensional a** just sat in the corner for kick outs

F) he averaged more points. but thats never been a thing that judges greatness. more often than not a winner will be a team player. kobe was a winner more often in his career so he didnt have half a decade to pad his scoring average on a bad team like mj... plus the whole having to share with shaq thing and coming out of highschool. career points have never meant much. its why most of the top 10 ppg leaders are not in the top 10 all time player rankings

G) the fg% thing is what i originally pointed to... if kobe didnt go god mode and heat check so much while also shooting 3-4 times as many threes in his career... his fg% would be equal to that of jordans..

kobes never been a stat padder or stat protector...

he shoots the ball full court at the end of courters.. he is the bail out man at the end of shot clocks from 5 feet behind the 3point line

no way jordan would have been put in that position since he rarely shot threes.. it was natural for bail out distance threes to be taken by someone else


but this is all comon sense stuff that i'm sure you already knew but just wanted me to waste my time repeating for probably the 1000th time over the last 10 years of posting on message boards

thankyou goodnight... do it again soon with some other clown
A):confusedshrug:

B):confusedshrug:

C) Fan vote Defensive 1st Teams so ?:confusedshrug: Olymbic guard who? :oldlol: Most good inter NBA are big man except Manu + he not play in 2008. Since MJ have more steal + block + DOY i think MJ > Kobe on defense

D) :confusedshrug:

E) MJ best ast season 8asts > Kobe 6asts, since Kobe bring up more than MJ, your word he should have more ast. Career ast:MJ 5.3 > Kobe 4.7 , ast/to ratio MJ 5633 / 2924 = 1,92 > Kobe 5283/3318=1,59 the gap will increase if Kobe play at 40 like MJ or can he ?

F) If PPG + points doesn't matter so what Kobe so great, Make clutch shot? Please:facepalm He missed last 5 clutch, 7/25=28% career. Fisher, Gasol, Arrtest make last 3 for Lakers. If winner matter Kareem, Russell, MJ earn more, Russell MJ never be No2 in winning team, Kobe at least twice and he 1 ring less.

G) Without make 3pts: MJ 11611/22759=0.51% > Kobe 8516/17641=0.48% http://www.basketball-reference.com 02.07.2012


he shoots the ball full court at the end of courters.. he is the bail out man at the end of shot clocks from 5 feet behind the 3point line:no:

Game winning shot Playoffs : MJ 9/18=50% > Kobe7/25 or 28% your word "kobe was a winner more often" so it's about made it not how, Kobe try attempt crazy shot make it by chance, he missed alot for proof, Kobe get double triple team? so other team let MJ make WIDE OPEN shot \, are they stupid? Teammate can't make shot?:confusedshrug: his teammate made last 4 gamewinner in playoffs.

Not regarding MJ: Kareem > Kobe: 6 Rings 6MVP 11.2RPG 3.7AST only 1 less than Kobe, surprise, 24.6 ppg only 1 less than Kobe, but PPG "never been a thing that judges greatness" right?:roll: Kobe number will down if he play 433 games more to match 1560 games like Kareem = at least 5 more season, or can he?

Keep up, wait for your response:roll:

[Nevaeh]

Well he didn't quit in the playoffs either time. He quit after winning rings. And as Finals MVP nonetheless.

With a better PER than his teammates. Yeah, I went there :oldlol:

[Boston C's]

Yeah one is actually abandoning a championship level team to sit the bench for the Birmingham Barons, the other is human nature when its impossible to win.

:facepalm

lmao your such a terrible poster its not even funny... just come out and say you hate jordan because you know you do... he quit to play baseball for his dad who passed and got bored with winning all the time while the other decided to be a little bitch and just quit on his team when they needed him most


fyi im not a kobe hater just an objective person who has him on my top 10 all time and is one of the greatest to play the game... but i gotta put you jordan haters back in your place when you crawl out of the woodwork

[Yao Ming's Foot]

lmao your such a terrible poster its not even funny... just come out and say you hate jordan because you know you do... he quit to play baseball for his dad who passed and got bored with winning all the time while the other decided to be a little bitch and just quit on his team when they needed him most


fyi im not a kobe hater just an objective person who has him on my top 10 all time and is one of the greatest to play the game... but i gotta put you jordan haters back in your place when you crawl out of the woodwork

He quit on his teammates because he got bored of winning a mere 3 championships? :oldlol:

[Nevaeh]

lmao your such a terrible poster its not even funny... just come out and say you hate jordan because you know you do... he quit to play baseball for his dad who passed and got bored with winning all the time while the other decided to be a little bitch and just quit on his team when they needed him most


fyi im not a kobe hater just an objective person who has him on my top 10 all time and is one of the greatest to play the game... but i gotta put you jordan haters back in your place when you crawl out of the woodwork

You would think that after having his "Defense Rating" theories shattered to pieces, Yao Ming's Foot would learn to STFU sometimes :oldlol:

[Boston C's]

You would think that after having his "Defense Rating" theories shattered to pieces, Yao Ming's Foot would learn to STFU sometimes :oldlol:

it amazes me that nearly every time he says something on here he proves hes an idiot and a hater :facepalm

[LakersReign]

Well he didn't quit in the playoffs either time. He quit after winning rings. And as Finals MVP nonetheless.

Love it how obvious undercover Lebron fans try to talk about how Kobe supposedly quit in the playoffs.:facepalm


Pure hilarious stupidity:lol

[Yao Ming's Foot]

it amazes me that nearly every time he says something on here he proves hes an idiot and a hater :facepalm

I'm a hater for pointing out Jordan literally left his team in his prime yet is praise worthy for doing so compared to Kobe not jacking up shots with the game out of reach?

[bwink23]

I'm a hater for pointing out Jordan literally left his team in his prime yet is praise worthy for doing so compared to Kobe not jacking up shots with the game out of reach?


You should be thanking your lucky stars Jordan did retire twice....he would be considered IMMORTAL if he didn't...he would be so far out of reach it would be disgusting.

#1 all time in points.
8 championship rings.
#1 all time in steals.
#1 all-time in MVP's.


#1 in so much crap for a 2-guard you couldn't wrap your head around it....:hammerhead:

[LakersReign]

This opinion that players know the game more is simply laughable. A writer who has spend his whole adult live while learning the sport and researching its history versus a player who has been playing it for 10-20 years is incomparable. Plus how many players and GM's especially are going to come up with a ****ing list of the top players ever? None of them have! Only a couple big mouths like MJ and Iggy make some big claims about Kobe and all the Kobe homers on here go crazy.

Remove your lips from Kobe's shaft and do some research.

Why don't you remove yours from Lebron's first, BEFORE you say stupid stuff like that?! It'll make you look more credible and unbiased.:rolleyes:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You should be thanking your lucky stars Jordan did retire twice....he would be considered IMMORTAL if he didn't...he would be so far out of reach it would be disgusting.

#1 all time in points.
8 championship rings.
#1 all time in steals.
#1 all-time in MVP's.


#1 in so much crap for a 2-guard you couldn't wrap your head around it....:hammerhead:

Thats great but he did so the MJ mythologists should probably refrain from slamming other legends of the game for "quitting" unless they wish to look foolish.

[bwink23]

Thats great but he did so the MJ mythologists should probably refrain from slamming other legends of the game for "quitting" unless they wish to look foolish.


The only thing foolish is you saying the 2003 Wizards were a better defensive team than the 1991 Chicago Bulls....:hammerhead:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The only thing foolish is you saying the 2003 Wizards were a better defensive team than the 1991 Chicago Bulls....:hammerhead:

link? They gave up fewer points per possession. That's just a simple truth.

[The_Yearning]

Here's a great example of this. All these Kobe fans keep pointing out that all these analysts/players/former players say Kobe is top 2, top 5, blah blah, etc. They also say someone like Oscar Robertson is top 5 or top 10. Alot of them say he was greater then Kobe. I remember Barkley saying Oscar was 2nd behind Jordan. I've never ever heard any of these Kobe fans say the same thing about Oscar.

If you want to think Kobe is top 5 or whatever, nothing wrong with that. I disagree, but its not really far-fetched that he can't be there by the time his long career is over. But pointing out analysts/players/former players' opinions like there some kind of gospel is kinda stupid. Especially cause just like regular fans, they disagree with each other and don't have the same opinions either.

No need to wait that long. He is already there.

You're welcome.

[INDI]

Are you serious about the bolded? That means nothing. If Kobe is better then Shaq or Duncan, its not cause of that.


Im serious. We argue about stats all day long, but it's the intangibles that seperate the greats. I'ts things like that that lets you know that your dealing with a peculiar player, someone that's out of the norm. Why do you think people came back out to watch him? they got a chance to see him in the shoot around before the game. The reason is because it's something out of the norm. No it doesnt make him better but these are the little things that show his dedication to be great. Another example would be the game where he got the stinger in his right arm and played the rest of the game literally using just his left hand, these are things that other people just do not do so it is worth pointing out.

how much of a big deal do people make about Jordan balling with the flu and then collapsing in pippen's arms at the buzzer? people talk about it because that is not what the typical player would do and shows a great deal of determination. IMO when you have people with similar statistical similarities, it is the small things that should bring the seperation

[INDI]

Sorry but you're just wrong.

There isn't a difference of opinions here.

There is no logical way 0% to try and argue Kobe being a Top 5 player.

He isn't even remotely close to Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, Duncan, Hakeem, Magic, Russell and he wasn't better then Wilt or Bird.

I also think its clear to knowledgeable fans that West was a better player and playoff performer and I think its pretty difficult to make a case for Kobe over him and it would probably have to be based almost primarily on team success which is a weak argument considering who they played with and what teams that had to win against.

Sadly most fans wont even know who West is and probably started watching basketball in 2003-2006.

Kobe is somewhere from 11-15 on the GOAT list as an individual player.

i have one question for you, though I do believe that it is a legit argument about who is the best player. What do you think about the fact that after the lakers won their last championship, Magic Johnson himself said that Kobe was a better player than him?

please no stats talk, I just want to know what do you think about Magic's statement. Keep in mind that it was not a question asked to him, this was something that he said on his own

[bwink23]

link? They gave up fewer points per possession. That's just a simple truth.


No link necessary....only COMMON SENSE. :lol

[guy]

Im serious. We argue about stats all day long, but it's the intangibles that seperate the greats. I'ts things like that that lets you know that your dealing with a peculiar player, someone that's out of the norm. Why do you think people came back out to watch him? they got a chance to see him in the shoot around before the game. The reason is because it's something out of the norm. No it doesnt make him better but these are the little things that show his dedication to be great. Another example would be the game where he got the stinger in his right arm and played the rest of the game literally using just his left hand, these are things that other people just do not do so it is worth pointing out.

how much of a big deal do people make about Jordan balling with the flu and then collapsing in pippen's arms at the buzzer? people talk about it because that is not what the typical player would do and shows a great deal of determination. IMO when you have people with similar statistical similarities, it is the small things that should bring the seperation

Are you kidding me? That was nothing more then attention-whoring at its best. You think its a coincidence he did it after a nationally-televised game in Miami and he's never done that after a mid-November game in Milwaukee? That means nothing for his legacy. Its a cool story, but nothing more. If he's better then Duncan, Shaq, or whoever, thats not a reason why.

Jordan doesn't get any credit for collapsing in Pippen's arms. He gets credit for playing great while sick in the NBA FINALS.

[CLTHornets4eva]

Why don't you remove yours from Lebron's first, BEFORE you say stupid stuff like that?! It'll make you look more credible and unbiased.:rolleyes:

:wtf:
LeBron? What are you smoking?:facepalm

When did I ever say anything about LeBron? Obviously Kobe is better all time than LeBron at this point. Why do you think I care at all about LeBron?:no:

Just because i don't agree with you don't try to read into my responses as veiled loyalty toward another overrated diva.

[CLTHornets4eva]

No link necessary....only COMMON SENSE. :lol
or as Kenneth would say multiple times without realizing the error



comon sense

[Mach_3]

LOL Iggy trolling the hell out of ISH right now :roll:

[Heavincent]

Being a Kobe hater must be difficult. It's like trying to shoot somebody without ammunition.

Everyone that tries to discredit Kobe just sounds completely ridiculous. It's pathetic.

"Kobe had Shaq when he won his first three championships. What a scrub."

lol so? Lebron was carried by Wade to a 4-2 Finals defeat :roll: :roll:

[LakersReign]

:wtf:
LeBron? What are you smoking?:facepalm

When did I ever say anything about LeBron? Obviously Kobe is better all time than LeBron at this point. Why do you think I care at all about LeBron?:no:

Just because i don't agree with you don't try to read into my responses as veiled loyalty toward another overrated diva.

Uh huh....right....Sure. So....you just come on here spouting the exact same drivel ON COMMAND like they do, cuz you have nothing better to do then....huh?!:rolleyes:



Try again:no:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe isnt a Top 10# All-Time playoff performer.
He probably isnt a Top 10# All-Time player.

Circumstances have let him win many Rings but this does not enhance his ability or value as an individual player.
For 4 of his 5 rings he was the 2nd best player on his own team and for 3 of them he was a clear 2nd banana.

The 3 best players ever or "3 best playoff performers" are
1. Jordan
2. Shaq
3. Kareem

No one else comes close to their production/impact and longevity in the playoffs

The idea that Kobe could even be compared to one of these players is a joke.

Jordan for pretty much the entirety or at worse the majority of his career was better then Kobe at his absolute Peak.
Kareem for the majority of his Career was better then Kobe at his absolute Peak.
Shaq from 94-05 was better then Kobe at his absolute Peak.

Even DWade is proving himself to be a better playoff performer and thus (imo) a better player then Kobe was. If not for longevity at this point I would have no issue making a case that DWade is the better player between the two. He has certainly so far been proving himself to be the better playoff and Finals performer.
Both him and Lebron are likely to surpass Kobe by time their Careers end.

1. Jordan
2. Shaq
3. Kareem
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Hakeem
8. Duncan
9. Russell
10. West

Kobe certainly has little to no argument over anyone on this list outside of maybe West.

All the other players were far better during their first 13 years and during their young and prime years. Rings or not they were far more valuable and impactful players and ranking Kobe ahead of them would be a simple travesty and disrespect to those past greats.

Kobe is in the 11-15 Bracket with Oscar Robertson, Moses Malone, Kevin Garnett and Dr. J.

That is the highest he will ever get.

/Thread.
:lol He mad

[RRR3]

Why the hell do Kobe fans always bring up LeBron in topics that have NOTHING to do with him? :facepalm Jesus Christ, you guys are paranoid

[Heavincent]

lol at 32dayz and ThatsGame back-peddling :lol

"Only the fan's opinions are relevant"

"But Kobe was voted the 3rd best player of all time by the fans"

"I want a recount"

:roll: :roll: :roll: How stupid can you get?

[Deuce Bigalow]

lol at 32dayz and ThatsGame back-peddling :lol

"Only the fan's opinions are relevant"

"But Kobe was voted the 3rd best player of all time by the fans"

"That doesn't count. I want a recount"

:roll: :roll: :roll: How stupid can you get?
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll:

[LakersReign]

Being a Kobe hater must be difficult. It's like trying to shoot somebody without ammunition.

Everyone that tries to discredit Kobe just sounds completely ridiculous. It's pathetic.

"Kobe had Shaq when he won his first three championships. What a scrub."

lol so? Lebron was carried by Wade to a 4-2 Finals defeat :roll: :roll:


It's so easy to use their pathetic hater logic against them. Shaq supposedly carried Kobe. But if and when the Heat do win a title, according to their warped logic, all the credit will only go to Lebron.:hammerhead:



lol at 32dayz and ThatsGame back-peddling :lol

"Only the fan's opinions are relevant"

"But Kobe was voted the 3rd best player of all time by the fans"

"That doesn't count. What I meant to say was that fans opinions are completely irrelevant"

:roll: :roll: :roll: How stupid can you get?


There you have it. The Dumb(32dayz) and Dumberer(that'sgame) of ISH!!!!

Hilariously stupid:lol

[Heavincent]

Kobe isnt a Top 10# All-Time playoff performer.
He probably isnt a Top 10# All-Time player.

Circumstances have let him win many Rings but this does not enhance his ability or value as an individual player.
For 4 of his 5 rings he was the 2nd best player on his own team and for 3 of them he was a clear 2nd banana.

The 3 best players ever or "3 best playoff performers" are
1. Jordan
2. Shaq
3. Kareem

No one else comes close to their production/impact and longevity in the playoffs

The idea that Kobe could even be compared to one of these players is a joke.

Jordan for pretty much the entirety or at worse the majority of his career was better then Kobe at his absolute Peak.
Kareem for the majority of his Career was better then Kobe at his absolute Peak.
Shaq from 94-05 was better then Kobe at his absolute Peak.

Even DWade is proving himself to be a better playoff performer and thus (imo) a better player then Kobe was. If not for longevity at this point I would have no issue making a case that DWade is the better player between the two. He has certainly so far been proving himself to be the better playoff and Finals performer.
Both him and Lebron are likely to surpass Kobe by time their Careers end.

1. Jordan
2. Shaq
3. Kareem
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Hakeem
8. Duncan
9. Russell
10. West

Kobe certainly has little to no argument over anyone on this list outside of maybe West.

All the other players were far better during their first 13 years and during their young and prime years. Rings or not they were far more valuable and impactful players and ranking Kobe ahead of them would be a simple travesty and disrespect to those past greats.

Kobe is in the 11-15 Bracket with Oscar Robertson, Moses Malone, Kevin Garnett and Dr. J.

That is the highest he will ever get.

/Thread.

It must kill you that the consensus among fans, players, coaches, and GM's is that Kobe is top 10 all-time, if not top 5. You're in the vast minority buddy.

[millwad]

It's so easy to use their pathetic hater logic against them. Shaq supposedly carried Kobe. But if and when the Heat do win a title, according to their warped logic, all the credit will only go to Lebron.:hammerhead:


Hilariously stupid:lol

He's an idiot, doesn't matter if you're talking about Kobe or anyone else, he makes up history.

Like yesterday he said that Hakeem who was DPOY in his prime was just a little better defensively compared to peak Shaq, the same Shaq who never even made an all-nba defensive first team in his career. And then he made up a story about Shaq being 2nd in the DPOY voting in 2000...:facepalm

[LakersReign]

He's an idiot, doesn't matter if you're talking about Kobe or anyone else, he makes up history.

Like yesterday he said that Hakeem who was DPOY in his prime was just a little better defensively compared to peak Shaq, the same Shaq who never even made an all-nba defensive first team in his career. And then he made up a story about Shaq being 2nd in the DPOY voting in 2000...:facepalm


Nothing new here. I know the dancing clown off another site he got banned from. Anybody who has over 100+ fake accounts on both Twitter and Facebook(some of which he pretends to be women) has some serious issues. He tries to take the position away from public opinion and clearly isn't smart enough to pull it off. He can ramble on and on and on and on about Kobe, while claiming to be unbiased. But notice how he never once disses Lebron, the way he does Kobe?! He makes things up along the way, and then when he sufficiently makes himself look stupid, claims you're on his "ignore list" as a pathetic attempt to save face and run away:roll:

[Timmy D for MVP]

10th best all time right now.

But everyone is entitled to their opinion I suppose.

I just guess for some reason I just thought there'd be more respect for KAJ and Magic etc.

[Deuce Bigalow]

He's an idiot, doesn't matter if you're talking about Kobe or anyone else, he makes up history.

Like yesterday he said that Hakeem who was DPOY in his prime was just a little better defensively compared to peak Shaq, the same Shaq who never even made an all-nba defensive first team in his career. And then he made up a story about Shaq being 2nd in the DPOY voting in 2000...:facepalm
6'5"
230+ lbs
lives in 1.4 million dollar apartment
lives in U.S.
Is only on ISH for 20 minutes a day
Only 1% of posts are about Kobe

[millwad]

Nothing new here. I know the dancing clown off another site he got banned from. Anybody who has over 100+ fake accounts on both Twitter and Facebook(some of which he pretends to be women) has some serious issues. He tries to take the position away from public opinion and clearly isn't smart enough to pull it off. So he just ends up making himself look stupid grasping at straws and making things up, just to have something to say. Then tries to lie and say he coached college basketball:roll:

He's also 6'5 and he lives in a 1.5 million dollar house and he's played basketball with Smush Parker!

He is begging for attention, obviously, the amount of times he posts (122 times a day last week) and all his trolling probably gives him the daily dose of attention he needs which he's not getting in his real life..

[millwad]

6'5"
230+ lbs
lives in 1.4 million dollar apartment
lives in U.S.
Is only on ISH for 20 minutes a day
Only 1% of posts are about Kobe

Haha, don't forget that he's the king at his gym and that he's played basketball with Smush Parker!

[Smoke117]

if kobe is the closest thing to jordan. then he has to be the 2nd best ever by default

otherwise jordan isnt the goat and russell is

Not really. Just because he's the second greatest SG of all time doesn't make him the 2nd best player. Kareem, Bird, and Magic would have something to say about that.

[Heavincent]

6'5"
230+ lbs
lives in 1.4 million dollar apartment
lives in U.S.
Is only on ISH for 25.7 minutes a day
Only 1% of posts are about Kobe

Fixed.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Haha, don't forget that he's the king at his gym and that he's played basketball with Smush Parker!
http://i.imgur.com/YhUK8.jpg

[LakersReign]

He's also 6'5 and he lives in a 1.5 million dollar house and he's played basketball with Smush Parker!

He is begging for attention, obviously, the amount of times he posts (122 times a day last week) and all his trolling probably gives him the daily dose of attention he needs which he's not getting in his real life..


All you can do is laugh at the dancing clown. Especially when he gets so mad after he makes himself look real dumb. Then says you're on his "ignore list" then responds to your very next post. 99% of the asinine crap he makes up and says is comedy gold. Fans know more about basketball than coaches and players had me rollin':oldlol:

[ThatsGame]

Theres basketball fans

And then theres ESPN/Media fans aka Faker fans.


If you want to make an example, then use a website that has REAL fans, that KNOW basketball, not people that browse ESPN and don't know anybody other then kobe.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/ratings.cgi

[LakersReign]

Theres basketball fans

And then theres ESPN/Media fans aka Faker fans.


If you want to make an example, then use a website that has REAL fans, that KNOW basketball, not people that browse ESPN and don't know anybody other then kobe.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/ratings.cgi


You do realize that also applies to pathetic bandwagon Lebron fans like you who know nothing about the NBA prior to '03 when Lebron signed with the Cavs....right?! Oh, and by the way, you do also realize that if it wasn't for ESPN selling "king james" for the last 7 years, you wouldn't be here....right?!:facepalm

Oh, and one more thing: just cuz you're a pathetic bandwagon jumping Lebron fans DOES NOT mean EVERYBODY is a pathetic bandwagon jumper just like you, ok?! You're just proving more and more that you truly known nothing about basketball.

Like I said before, stop posting for real

[Heavincent]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/ratings.cgi

The worst rankings of anything I have ever seen...by FAR.

Kobe at #62 and Lebron at #7 :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Wait, I'm not done...

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:






















:roll:

[Legends66NBA7]

Theres basketball fans

And then theres ESPN/Media fans aka Faker fans.


If you want to make an example, then use a website that has REAL fans, that KNOW basketball, not people that browse ESPN and don't know anybody other then kobe.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/ratings.cgi

So Kobe's ranked 62 ?

He's been played the most and has been ranked #1 in wins and losses. 12th overall in winning %.

So "real fans" just use stats, accolades, etc.. and you have to pick one over the other ? That's "real fans" ?

I thought "real fans" have to actually use objectivity, consistency, critical thinking, hours and hours of observation, and try their best to be unbias in comparing players and how they rank all-time

Elo rating just show a bunch of numbers, metrics, accolades, etc... (some or most who would disregard) with no context to them and you have to just.... pick one over the other.

It's probably used just for fun... and considering people might just pick someone like Vince Carter over Dwyane Wade or Kobe Bryant... just to mess up the polls. It's nothing "real fans" should take serious.

[kennethgriffin]

Theres basketball fans

And then theres ESPN/Media fans aka Faker fans.


If you want to make an example, then use a website that has REAL fans, that KNOW basketball, not people that browse ESPN and don't know anybody other then kobe.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/ratings.cgi

Lol gee that doesnt look suspect at all.. Im sure it wasnt flooded with spam.. Kobe regularly gets ranked as the 62nd best player ever....



Lmfaooooooooooooo

[Mirko Cro Cop]

Seriously LOL @ everyone putting Kobe RIGHT AFTER Jordan...

How are you going to have him as the 2nd GOAT when he shouldn't even be considered top 5 all time :roll:

You seriously think Kobe should be ahead of Magic? Kareem? Shaq? Duncan? Every player I just listed has at least 3 finals MVP's and as many or more reg season MVP's than Kobe. The nut-hugging here is getting out of hand...:applause:

[BlackJoker23]

iggy is underrating him

[(e)]

Theres basketball fans

And then theres ESPN/Media fans aka Faker fans.


If you want to make an example, then use a website that has REAL fans, that KNOW basketball, not people that browse ESPN and don't know anybody other then kobe.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/ratings.cgi
Just stop.

You seriously think you could keep a straight face when you say Vince Carter, TMAC, Ray Allen, JKidd, Shawn Kemp, Alonzo, Bernard King...(lol) are better all time players than Kobe fcking Bryant?

Get. The. Fck. Out. :roll:

...Dennis Rodman better than Kobe Bryant...:roll:

Dude is a straight up hater.

[Nash]

In what world is Kobe the best player in the world and better than Lebron in 2012? And please don't give me the ring argument, its not valid when deciding who's the best right now.

[Rocker09]

2nd is too high...I have kobe tied with duncan at #7...

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. Bird
6. Wilt
7. Kobe/Duncan
8. Kobe/Duncan
9. Shaq
10. Hakeem

[zay_24]

He is the best player alltime.

[rodman91]

He is the best player alltime.
Not even his era.

[32Dayz]

2nd is too high...I have kobe tied with duncan at #7...

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. Bird
6. Wilt
7. Kobe/Duncan
8. Kobe/Duncan
9. Shaq
10. Hakeem

Lol Kobe isn't even half the player Duncan, Shaq and Hakeem were and you see fit to rank him ahead of all 3 of them?

He doesn't belong in the same breath as those guys, he was never that good of a player or had nearly the same sort of impact on the hardwood.

:facepalm

[TheFrozenOne]

Theres basketball fans

And then theres ESPN/Media fans aka Faker fans.


If you want to make an example, then use a website that has REAL fans, that KNOW basketball, not people that browse ESPN and don't know anybody other then kobe.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/ratings.cgi


....




You just zapped all credibility from online "Hardcore" fanz...

and

Proved my point....we "online hardcore" fans make up .1% of the basketball community...all our ranting and raving saying "kobe is actually 62nd" is silly and...



sad.




Kobe top 5 alltime in real life...



deal wit it.

[LakersReign]

....




You just zapped all credibility from online "Hardcore" fanz...

and

Proved my point....we "online hardcore" fans make up .1% of the basketball community...all our ranting and raving saying "kobe is actually 62nd" is silly and...



sad.




Kobe top 5 alltime in real life...



deal wit it.


The idiot says all that while being an ESPN/Media/Cavs/Heat fan aka bandwagon Lebron fan himself. Who knew nothing of the Cavs or basketball before ebron showed up, but still pretended to be a "real" Cavs fan. Now he's a "real" Heat fan since Lebron came to Miami. Now, he's acting like just cuz he's an OBVIOUS bandwagon jumper, that means in his pathetic logic, everyone else is too. To try and make himself feel less pathetic. Hilarious:lol