Global Warming

[SlayerEnraged]

What are you thoughts on it?
A)Do you thinks it's total b.s?
B) Do you agree with the theory?
C)Do you think we are contributing to the problem, but scientists are overrating the effect of how much we're having on the temperature of the earth raising?
D)Do you care?
E)If you believe in it, do you have any soluions on how to reduce the ammounts of CO2 ND other greenhouse gases that we use?


Just had a interesting discussion in my class today about it. We also watched the Incovenient Truth with Al Gore in it which was pretty interesting. Before this I didn't know much about it or really care, but I thought it was definetely an interesting discussion.

[Norcaliblunt]

Sun spots and solar activity, along with the earth's magnetic field.

[KevinNYC]

http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/ssi/climate-change-statement-from.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change

The predominant scientific opinion on climate change is that the Earth's climate system is unequivocally warming and it is more than 90% certain that humans are causing it through activities that increase concentrations of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, such as deforestation and burning fossil fuels.[1][2][3][4] This scientific consensus is expressed in synthesis reports, scientific bodies of national or international standing, and surveys of opinion among climate scientists. Individual scientists, universities, and laboratories contribute to the overall scientific opinion via their peer-reviewed publications, and the areas of collective agreement and relative certainty are summarised in these high level reports and surveys.

National and international science academies and scientific societies have assessed the current scientific opinion, in particular on recent global warming. These assessments have largely followed or endorsed the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) position of January 2001 which states:

An increasing body of observations gives a collective picture of a warming world and other changes in the climate system... There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities.[5]

No scientific body of national or international standing has maintained a dissenting opinion; the last was the American Association of Petroleum Geologists, which in 2007 updated its 1999 statement rejecting the likelihood of human influence on recent climate with its current non-committal position.

The National Academy of Sciences in the US, did a survey and they found 97% of scientists studying climate support "anthropogenic climate change."
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/06/22/1003187107.abstract

[hoopaddict08]

It's real, you can't really argue that.

The question is how much are causing it?

I really don't believe we have that much of an affect on it at all really. The Earth has been going through series of global warming and cooling before so are we really having a major impact on it?

Funny how Gore profited from it all. Just happened to be backing a company that was a foot soldier in the global green energy revolution which Gore led. I'm not knocking him, from a business standpoint he made a brilliant move, but so many people jumped on the bandwagon that it was rather disgusting to see.

[KeylessEntry]

regardless of what is causing the warming, it is a fact that the environment is changing at a much faster rate than usual, it is a fact that species are going extinct at 1000x the expected rate, and it is a fact that glacier fed waterways are rapidly drying out which will cause billions of people to go hungry/thirsty in the not so distant future.

[gigantes]

this was the most interesting angle on the issue i've seen for awhile, which came out earlier today-

Popular Opinion on Climate Change Traced to Political Elites:
http://www.livescience.com/18350-climate-change-public-opinion.html


After plugging all this information into computer models, they found that access to scientific information has a minimal effect on the public's opinion about climate change, while weather extremes have no noticeable effect whatsoever. Media coverage seems to exert an important influence, but the researchers conclude that this coverage is inextricably tied to other factors, such as political opinions and the state of the economy.

bottom line as i read it? the public are complete amateurs in understanding this issue. people use virtually everything else to form an opinion before quality science from quality sources is actually considered.

which is a big part of why nothing significant gets done IMO.

[Meticode]

I think it's a natural cycle of the Earth to heat and cool, and human's are slightly speeding up the heating process in this cycle. That's pretty much what I feel in a nutshell about it.

[verylegit]

bring it on.

[cuad]

A real color picture of Venus taken by a spaceship called Mariner 10.

http://i.imgur.com/WZMpz.jpg

[CelticBaller]

I think it's a natural cycle of the Earth to heat and cool, and human's are slightly speeding up the heating process in this cycle. That's pretty much what I feel in a nutshell about it.
this

[Hazard]

I'm not as well read about the effect humans have on it as I should be but I do know that we are living through a polar shift. The poles create a magnetic field around the Earth which protects us from the suns rays. As the plates move the magnetism shifts with them causing the magnetic field to weaken and let in more sun rays.

I'm sure we have a minor effect on climate change, but I think the biggest effect we have on our environment is all the digging we're doing to acquire oil. There have been reports of Earthquakes around areas where oil companies drill and pump water through the Earth to somehow bring the oil to the surface. Not 100% sure about what goes into the process but it has an effect on the fault lines and creates quakes. Meaning that by doing that we shift the plates and cause them to converge which I can imagine also expedites the process of the polar shift.

I'm sure there are people more knowledgeable about this topic than I am and can explain it better, but that seems to be what is happening.

[SlayerEnraged]

I used to kind of think oh we can't be doing this much, but when I saw that video, Al Gore brought up that point. He showed on a graph all the hot periods in history and they were microscopically smaller than the heat increase that we are seeing today. I also believe he mentioned a fact saying that the top 10 hottest years came from 91-2005 so I really don't think we can argue our impact here. Any1 have a solution for this problem or one of the many sub topic involved in global warming?

[Hazard]

Yes, stop burning fossil fuels and stop releasing chemicals into the atmosphere. But that's not rational thinking. Its better to have oranges from Florida in NY and have 90% of our shit brought in from China while destroying the only planet within 20 light years that can sustain our parasitic existence.

[KeylessEntry]

I used to kind of think oh we can't be doing this much, but when I saw that video, Al Gore brought up that point. He showed on a graph all the hot periods in history and they were microscopically smaller than the heat increase that we are seeing today. I also believe he mentioned a fact saying that the top 10 hottest years came from 91-2005 so I really don't think we can argue our impact here. Any1 have a solution for this problem or one of the many sub topic involved in global warming?


I dont think there is any magic bullet that is going to solve everything. At this point, i dont know that we could really stop things if we wanted to.

Its not really the warming that scares me so much as everything that comes along with it.

Right now, we are seeing extinction rates similar to those seen during the dinosaur extinction event. Thousands of species of fish, amphibians, birds, plants and other organisms are disappearing every year. This is certainly not all due to climate change, as fragmentation, urbanization, pollution, overexploitation of fisheries and many other processes are also contributing to the skyrocketing extinction rates. .... A lot of these extinctions are directly or indirectly related to global warming. Entire ecosystems are being wiped out by things like mountain top removal coal mining, deforestation, hypoxic zones (dead zones) in water ecosystems caused by sewage and agricultural runoff

There are billions of people in asia that rely on water from himalayan glaciers for drinking, agriculture, etc. We can measure that these glaciers are shrinking, and unless the glaciers start coming back, many of the rivers flowing through China, India, Pakistan and other Asian countries are going to start running dry. this will likely lead to an epic shitstorm.

our drinking water is getting contaminated by hydraulic fracking, huge swaths of our country are GMO monoculture agricultural areas, bees are dying and we dont know why, eutrophication is choking out the chesapeake.... **** there are a million environmental issues right now.

[SlayerEnraged]

I dont think there is any magic bullet that is going to solve everything. At this point, i dont know that we could really stop things if we wanted to.

Its not really the warming that scares me so much as everything that comes along with it.

Right now, we are seeing extinction rates similar to those seen during the dinosaur extinction event. Thousands of species of fish, amphibians, birds, plants and other organisms are disappearing every year. This is certainly not all due to climate change, as fragmentation, urbanization, pollution, overexploitation of fisheries and many other processes are also contributing to the skyrocketing extinction rates. .... A lot of these extinctions are directly or indirectly related to global warming. Entire ecosystems are being wiped out by things like mountain top removal coal mining, deforestation, hypoxic zones (dead zones) in water ecosystems caused by sewage and agricultural runoff

There are billions of people in asia that rely on water from himalayan glaciers to for drinking, agriculture, etc. We can measure that these glaciers are shrinking, and unless the glaciers start coming back, many of the rivers flowing through China, India, Pakistan and other Asian countries are going to start running dry.

our drinking water is getting contaminated by hydraulic fracking, huge swaths of our country are GMO monoculture agricultural areas, bees are dying and we dont know why, eutrophication is choking out the chesapeake.... **** there are a million environmental issues right now.

Yup. I personally don't care to much about the temp itself going up or down, but I know that there won't be any water for a lot of places that depend on it, unless the temp lowers. I only care about the effects things like this have on us. I don't think we can fix what we've done but with all these environmental issues like you said, I feel we need to at least repair and maintain them instead of making the issue worse.

[KeylessEntry]

Yup. I personally don't care to much about the temp itself going up or down, but I know that there won't be any water for a lot of places that depend on it, unless the temp lowers. I only care about the effects things like this have on us. I don't think we can fix what we've done but with all these environmental issues like you said, I feel we need to at least repair and maintain them instead of making the issue worse.

Yeah at this point we can just try to protect and preserve what we have left. I think people would be a lot more interested if we put a dollar amount on the value of the services provided by ecosystems. For example, the city of Portland drinks water that is collected from the bull run watershed. This water is basically just rainwater that falls in a river basin outside of Portland. It requires some treatment, like chemicals added to kill cryptosporidium and other stuff that you dont want to drink, but for the most part the water is naturally filtered by the forest. If all the trees in the bull run watershed suddenly got logged, or killed by invasive tree eating beetles, the water coming out of the bull run river would be muddy garbage unfit for drinking, it would need to be manually filtered. The economic value of the natural water filtration provided by that forest is absolutely massive. There are a lot of other ecosystem services we take for granted too, such as pollination of agricultural crops.

[Hazard]

Yeah at this point we can just try to protect and preserve what we have left. I think people would be a lot more interested if we put a dollar amount on the value of the services provided by ecosystems. For example, the city of Portland drinks water that is collected from the bull run watershed. This water is basically just rainwater that falls in a river basin outside of Portland. It requires some treatment, like chemicals added to kill cryptosporidium and other stuff that you dont want to drink, but for the most part the water is naturally filtered by the forest. If all the trees in the bull run watershed suddenly got logged, or killed by invasive tree eating beetles, the water coming out of the bull run river would be muddy garbage unfit for drinking, it would need to be manually filtered. The economic value of the natural water filtration provided by that forest is absolutely massive. There are a lot of other ecosystem services we take for granted too, such as pollination of agricultural crops.
That's very interesting. Where do you find that info?

[KeylessEntry]

That's very interesting. Where do you find that info?


i forget where i originally learned it, but you can google it or just go to the portland water bureau (http://www.portlandonline.com/water/index.cfm?c=29784)

[Hazard]

i forget where i originally learned it, but you can google it or just go here (http://www.portlandonline.com/water/index.cfm?c=29784)
Thanks, I was hoping to learn where PA water comes from. I'll dig around on the internet.

[KeylessEntry]

Thanks, I was hoping to learn where PA water comes from. I'll dig around on the internet.


If I lived in PA I would be extremely interested to learn where my water comes from. Not only has PA been heavily settled for a long time, but all of the mining, fracking and other energy industry related activities have a pretty strong impact on drinking water. You should check out the documentary gasland, people in your state have tap water that is literally flammable and explosive due to massive amounts of methane and other chemicals leaking in to their drinking water wells (probably) due to hydraulic fracking.

[KeylessEntry]

I am a pretty hardcore environmentalist but I dont try to reduce my own carbon emissions at all. I am gonna enjoy my 4x4 SUV while I can, because ultimately there is a limited supply of petroleum, so it seems likely that the vast majority of existing petroleum will be burned within my own lifetime. Especially when you consider how fast China and India are growing and industrializing. Petroleum is going to effectively run out, becoming insanely expensive. On the other hand, electricity will be cheap as hell (relatively) due to coal, natural gas, wind, and the ultimate winner, the one that provides all energy in the first place - solar.

besides if i dont burn this gallon of unleaded, that just means one more gallon for someone like hawker. someday ill tell my grandkids about what it was like to hear the grumble of a v8 engine.

[Hazard]

If I lived in PA I would be extremely interested to learn where my water comes from. Not only has PA been heavily settled for a long time, but all of the mining, fracking and other energy industry related activities have a pretty strong impact on drinking water. You should check out the documentary gasland, people in your state have tap water that is literally flammable and explosive due to massive amounts of methane and other chemicals leaking in to their drinking water wells (probably) due to hydraulic fracking.
Yeah so I've heard. I think all that stuff goes down in Western PA, where its mostly rural and people don't know shit about shit. I live closer to Philly and I haven't spontaneously combusted yet, so hopefully that's not in my near future. I'll definitely do some heavy research tomorrow, maybe I'll get lucky and stumble upon a database containing info about different counties.

Thanks for the heads up, I haven't watched Gaslands yet but I did some reading about fracking and its definitely bad news. Did a bit of activism against it as well. Wrote some reps and all that nonsense, same generic automated responses as usual.

[Hazard]

I am a pretty hardcore environmentalist but I dont try to reduce my own carbon emissions at all. I am gonna enjoy my 4x4 SUV while I can, because ultimately there is a limited supply of petroleum, so it seems likely that the vast majority of existing petroleum will be burned within my own lifetime. Especially when you consider how fast China and India are growing and industrializing. Petroleum is going to effectively run out, becoming insanely expensive. On the other hand, electricity will be cheap as hell (relatively) due to coal, natural gas, wind, and the ultimate winner, the one that provides all energy in the first place - solar.

besides if i dont burn this gallon of unleaded, that just means one more gallon for someone like hawker. someday ill tell my grandkids about what it was like to hear the grumble of a v8 engine.
Haha I like how you think, make that shit run out faster so people finally begin to see the reality of our situation.

[KeylessEntry]

Haha I like how you think, make that shit run out faster so people finally begin to see the reality of our situation.

Ultimately solar is going to win. It is really just a matter of how long it takes for everything else to run out and when the cost/benefit makes it worthwhile for the corporate machine. Virtually all power we use originates from solar when you want to get really technical about it, as solar becomes more and more efficient and inexpensive it will inevitably win out and it will not run out for as long as humans inhabit the earth.

[dkmwise]

Couple things to consider here. First thing is 'Global Warming; is the wrong topic to be bringing up becuase like people here have said people's opinions are based more on political ideology than anything. Instead why don't people present it like 'we should use less fossil fuel and energy for many reasons.' Wether you think global warming is real or not, i think everyone would agree that in general burning more fossil fuel is not good for the envirnment. Not to mention how much money the U.S. is exporting every year to pay for all this oil.

However, must keep in mind a few things. First, it is shown that over the last 100 years the Earth has been warming. This is true and really no argument shoudl come from it. But the earth has been around for 4.54 BILLION years, so does a 100 year sample really prove anything one way or another?

Next, consider the source here in Al Gore. It's been well documented that Gore is partial owner of a company that sells carbon credits and basically profits off of paranoia in global warming so say what you want but the guy has an agenda here.

What I don't get is if you belive in it or not, who thinks more pollution is good?

[Nick Young]

climate change is a natural phenomanon that has occured throughout the earth's history since the very beginning. We have had like 7 major iceages and countless minor ones that have occured naturally. Did cavemen and dinosaurs cause those ice ages with their carbon emitting shits?

And yet suddenly when we gain climate measuring instruments able to look at the past 250 years, the current global climate change, that is much less durastic than the european heat wave 1000 years ago, IS ALL HUMAN'S FAULTS, CAUSED BY CO2 EMISSIONS AND THE WHOLE WORLD IS GOING TO END.

Only mindless sheep chicken littles fall for this shit.

[Randy]

I am a pretty hardcore environmentalist but I dont try to reduce my own carbon emissions at all. I am gonna enjoy my 4x4 SUV while I can, because ultimately there is a limited supply of petroleum, so it seems likely that the vast majority of existing petroleum will be burned within my own lifetime.

Contradictory. You either are, or you aren't. You are not.

[DeuceWallaces]

climate change is a natural phenomanon that has occured throughout the earth's history since the very beginning. We have had like 7 major iceages and countless minor ones that have occured naturally. Did cavemen and dinosaurs cause those ice ages with their carbon emitting shits?

And yet suddenly when we gain climate measuring instruments able to look at the past 250 years, the current global climate change, that is much less durastic than the european heat wave 1000 years ago, IS ALL HUMAN'S FAULTS, CAUSED BY CO2 EMISSIONS AND THE WHOLE WORLD IS GOING TO END.

Only mindless sheep chicken littles fall for this shit.

Incorrect. Please, all you young interested minds on this topic don't listen to a word this dipshit has to say.

Go read the IPCC 2007 synthesis report or something.

[Brunch@Five]

the question is: why would we NOT have an effect on how our atmosphere works, the way we're burning things and shaping our environment?

[Nick Young]

Incorrect. Please, all you young interested minds on this topic don't listen to a word this dipshit has to say.

Go read the IPCC 2007 synthesis report or something.
LAWL.

Did you also forget how the biggest climate research group in the UK was exposed as liars when emails were hacked and it was discovered scientists changed the data they gathered so that it looked like there was more durastic climate change then there actually was?

These people make so much money selling literature, automobiles, exploiting the chicken littles inside of you. Global warming is a multimillion dollar a year industry

Deuceswallace, his entire education will be a complete waste if global warming doesn't exist. He needs it exist to make a living which is why he tries to shove it so hard down everyone's throats.


Please explain to me why the past 200 years are any different then the major iceages the earth has experienced in the past?

[Norcaliblunt]

Whether global warming is real or not, I do believe it has been used as a propaganda tool to ignite fear, divide and conquer, and derail basic uniting issues to stop burning fossil fuel that are much more impact having, such as simple environmental pollution, foreign dependendecy, and peak oil. I think everyone can rally around wanting their communities clean and pollution free, not wanting to spend crazy amounts of money while being dependent on a foreign commodity, and the finite reality of the resource we are addicted to. Scaring the world with the Armageddon of a debatable theory doesn't seem to be the most productive avenue for change IMO.

[DeuceWallaces]

LAWL.

Did you also forget how the biggest climate research group in the UK was exposed as liars when emails were hacked and it was discovered scientists changed the data they gathered so that it looked like there was more durastic climate change then there actually was?

These people make so much money selling literature, automobiles, exploiting the chicken littles inside of you. Global warming is a multimillion dollar a year industry

Deuceswallace, his entire education will be a complete waste if global warming doesn't exist. He needs it exist to make a living which is why he tries to shove it so hard down everyone's throats.


Please explain to me why the past 200 years are any different then the major iceages the earth has experienced in the past?

Did you forget the part where pretty much nothing was uncovered? Just a bunch of idiot right wingers and dipshits like yourself who have no concept of the review process.

Did you also forget the part where scientists make no money off this shit. Reviewers volunteer their time, scientists and manuscript writers don't profit on their studies, in fact it costs thousands for me to publish in many journals.

No need to go over your last point, but the changes in atmospheric CO2 have never, ever, been witnessed at a rate anything like what's happened the past century.

You're just some idiot loser kid on a message board with no sense, no brains, and no life. You have no idea what you're talking about.

You're just an internet troll.

[KeylessEntry]

Contradictory. You either are, or you aren't. You are not.

Not really, carbon emissions are a necessary evil of modern society. If you dont drive a car it is a huge pain in the ass to get places. Any gas that I dont burn is just going to get burned by hawker or some guy in China, I might as well enjoy my combustion engine while it lasts. Anyway there are a lot more aspects to environmentalism than just carbon emissions.

Nick Young is completely full of shit. The scientists at East Angola were cleared, it has been proven that they werent doctoring their findings, those e-mails were taken out of context, and there arent any scientists making huge wads of money off global warming. on the contrary the people who are making money are the energy industry, who have convinced retards like nick young that their actions have no effect on the environment.

[Bladers]

We are going through the warmest, driest winter in recorded HISTORY.



The jet stream controls winter weather, but strange forces are controlling the jet stream this season


A little snow and rain are falling in a few states today, but the 2011–12 winter has been extremely warm and dry across the continental U.S. Meteorologists think they have figured out why.

First, a few records: The initial week of January was the driest in history. And more than 95 percent of the U.S. had below-average snow cover—the greatest such percentage ever recorded—according to some intriguing data maps generated by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. During December, approximately half of the U.S. had temperatures at least 5 degrees Fahrenheit above average, and more than 1,500 daily record highs were set from January 2 to 8. Europe has seen similar extremes.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=whats-causing-dry-winter
Global Warming? You be the judge!

[Balla_Status]

I dont think there is any magic bullet that is going to solve everything. At this point, i dont know that we could really stop things if we wanted to.

Its not really the warming that scares me so much as everything that comes along with it.

Right now, we are seeing extinction rates similar to those seen during the dinosaur extinction event. Thousands of species of fish, amphibians, birds, plants and other organisms are disappearing every year. This is certainly not all due to climate change, as fragmentation, urbanization, pollution, overexploitation of fisheries and many other processes are also contributing to the skyrocketing extinction rates. .... A lot of these extinctions are directly or indirectly related to global warming. Entire ecosystems are being wiped out by things like mountain top removal coal mining, deforestation, hypoxic zones (dead zones) in water ecosystems caused by sewage and agricultural runoff

There are billions of people in asia that rely on water from himalayan glaciers for drinking, agriculture, etc. We can measure that these glaciers are shrinking, and unless the glaciers start coming back, many of the rivers flowing through China, India, Pakistan and other Asian countries are going to start running dry. this will likely lead to an epic shitstorm.

our drinking water is getting contaminated by hydraulic fracking, huge swaths of our country are GMO monoculture agricultural areas, bees are dying and we dont know why, eutrophication is choking out the chesapeake.... **** there are a million environmental issues right now.

Name one example. Seriously. Name one.

And then explain what hydraulic fracturing is and what it does.

[Balla_Status]

If I lived in PA I would be extremely interested to learn where my water comes from. Not only has PA been heavily settled for a long time, but all of the mining, fracking and other energy industry related activities have a pretty strong impact on drinking water. You should check out the documentary gasland, people in your state have tap water that is literally flammable and explosive due to massive amounts of methane and other chemicals leaking in to their drinking water wells (probably) due to hydraulic fracking.

So what is it then? It is due to hydraulic fracking or probably due to hydraulic fracturing?

You have no concept of what fracking is, how it works and the rock mechanics involved with it.

And you're going to trust some dude with a camera with absolutely no oilfield background. Now you're just believing whatever you hear and supporting an agenda.

[Jasper]

This year across the country the typical snow fall is down...

I won't get into century issues , moderization of our planet etc etc

I do know that last 10 years the lake I live on is at it's all time low when it comes to water tables as well as my farm well.

It's one thing to have a short term drought , it's another for it to last this long.

[Hazard]

So what is it then? It is due to hydraulic fracking or probably due to hydraulic fracturing?

You have no concept of what fracking is, how it works and the rock mechanics involved with it.

And you're going to trust some dude with a camera with absolutely no oilfield background. Now you're just believing whatever you hear and supporting an agenda.
Some dude with a camera is a great way to gain info by interviewing locals near fracking sites and make their experiences public. Seems to me you're having a tough time swallowing that concept and are lashing out at the messenger. I would trust people who have nothing to gain with their testimony over some big oil representative any day. Word of mouth is a powerful tool.

[Balla_Status]

Some dude with a camera is a great way to gain info by interviewing locals near fracking sites and make their experiences public. Seems to me you're having a tough time swallowing that concept and are lashing out at the messenger. I would trust people who have nothing to gain with their testimony over some big oil representative any day. Word of mouth is a powerful tool.

I'm just trying to inform the misinformed. So because a dude can light his tap water on fire near a well, that automatically means it's the fracking?

I know for certain that one resident on that show was getting their water from a coal bed methane formation? Do you have any idea what happens when you dewater a coal? Pretty much everyone that could light their tap water on fire was due to naturally occuring methane. Their water well was drilling into a waterbed that already contained natural gas. And the Colorado oil and gas commission has proven this.

It still stands that there is no scientific evidence of fracking leading to contaminated water. We've been fracking since the 50s.

[Hazard]

I'm just trying to inform the misinformed. So because a dude can light his tap water on fire near a well, that automatically means it's the fracking?

I know for certain that one resident on that show was getting their water from a coal bed methane formation? Do you have any idea what happens when you dewater a coal? Pretty much everyone that could light their tap water on fire was due to naturally occuring methane. Their water well was drilling into a waterbed that already contained natural gas. And the Colorado oil and gas commission has proven this.

It still stands that there is no scientific evidence of fracking leading to contaminated water. We've been fracking since the 50s.
After 2 minutes on google:
1987 US environmental Protection Agency report on methane pollution of water supplies due to fracking in the mid-1980s in the US (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/us/drilling-down-documents-7.html)
Study: Methane in water near fracking sites (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42964307/ns/us_news-environment/t/methane-water-near-gas-drilling-sites-study-finds/#.TzNI41xRR2h)
Another article about methane found in water (http://ehp03.niehs.nih.gov/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1289%2Fehp.119-a289)

[usa hoops]

At any rate, how many of you are rushing to buy a smart car? You can't get laid with one of those.

A corvette or a Mustang may harm the environment, but they get you laid.

[Balla_Status]

After 2 minutes on google:
1987 US environmental Protection Agency report on methane pollution of water supplies due to fracking in the mid-1980s in the US (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/us/drilling-down-documents-7.html)
Study: Methane in water near fracking sites (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42964307/ns/us_news-environment/t/methane-water-near-gas-drilling-sites-study-finds/#.TzNI41xRR2h)
Another article about methane found in water (http://ehp03.niehs.nih.gov/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1289%2Fehp.119-a289)

You're an idiot dude. That first article has a lot of "mights" and "may" in it.

And in the end it says the well was tested for cement strength and casing and tested excellent in both. The casing was strong around the freshwater table from which the well was drilling from and the cement strength was excellent which would prevent any gas communication from the producing formation to the water table.

[Hazard]

You're an idiot dude. That first article has a lot of "mights" and "may" in it.

And in the end it says the well was tested for cement strength and casing and tested excellent in both. The casing was strong around the freshwater table from which the well was drilling from and the cement strength was excellent which would prevent any gas communication from the producing formation to the water table.
Once again you're getting mad at information. Clearly the cement casing being in tact would obviously prevent harmful chemicals from being released into the AIR.

This has absolutely nothing to do with fracking, it is an isolated incident. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-15919248)

[Balla_Status]

Once again you're getting mad at information. Clearly the cement casing being in tact would obviously prevent harmful chemicals from being released into the AIR.

This has absolutely nothing to do with fracking, it is an isolated incident. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-15919248)

Fracking releasing chemicals in the air? wtf? You seriously have no clue what fracking is and unwilling to listen. Keep using inconclusive information to satisfy your agenda. That'll get you somewhere.

[Hazard]

Fracking releasing chemicals in the air? wtf? You seriously have no clue what fracking is and unwilling to listen. Keep using inconclusive information to satisfy your agenda. That'll get you somewhere.
You're not really saying much that I can listen to, all I hear is some random irrelevant point and a bunch of insults. That only leads me to believe that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

Oh and while we are on the air topic:

Air pollution is another factor that must be taken into consideration. Near the end of the well development, there is a practice called flaring that is used to get rid of the waste gas that is not able to be used. The excess gas is essentially set ablaze, leaving flames spewing far into the sky, burning for days on end, and emitting a significant amount of noxious gases.
Scientific study by Swanson School of Engineering at the University of Pittsburgh (http://136.142.82.187/eng12/history/spring2011/pdf/1267.pdf)

[Balla_Status]

You're not really saying much that I can listen to, all I hear is some random irrelevant point and a bunch of insults. That only leads me to believe that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

Oh and while we are on the air topic:

Scientific study by Swanson School of Engineering at the University of Pittsburgh (http://136.142.82.187/eng12/history/spring2011/pdf/1267.pdf)

I frack for a living. So yeah. You should probably quit while you're ahead. I know A LOT more than you do. That's why I'm not posting articles. Because I have actual knowledge of what I'm talking about. I busted out some geology on you and you refused to acknowledge it. Same with Colorado Oil & Gas Commission info as well.

And for your article, yeah that's true. I've seen it in person. Just the other day actually. It usually happens in oil wells where the gas is uneconomical to produce. That's not fracking though.

[Hazard]

I frack for a living. So yeah. You should probably quit while you're ahead. I know A LOT more than you do. That's why I'm not posting articles. Because I have actual knowledge of what I'm talking about. I busted out some geology on you and you refused to acknowledge it. Same with Colorado Oil & Gas Commission info as well.

And for your article, yeah that's true. I've seen it in person. Just the other day actually. It usually happens in oil wells where the gas is uneconomical to produce. That's not fracking though.
Well... you're an asshole. I hope they shut your ass down cause you're poisoning communities and our environment.

[Legend of Josh]

Contradictory. You either are, or you aren't. You are not.

http://i55.tinypic.com/2j44r2b.jpg

"WE DIDN'T LISTEN!"

[SlayerEnraged]

Who's willing to stop driving? :lol

[KeylessEntry]

So what is it then? It is due to hydraulic fracking or probably due to hydraulic fracturing?

You have no concept of what fracking is, how it works and the rock mechanics involved with it.

And you're going to trust some dude with a camera with absolutely no oilfield background. Now you're just believing whatever you hear and supporting an agenda.

Well im not going to claim to be able to prove 100% that it is completely due to fracking, technically there are other possible explanations. However, it is a fact that people all over PA have contaminated water coming out of their drinking water wells, and their water was not exploding before the fracking went down. Also, dont tell me what I do and dont know, shit head, you arent the only person in this thread with a science degree. On the topic of gasland, you dont need an oilfield background to film someone igniting methane coming out of a kitchen faucet.

I think you just have a guilty conscience that you are making money by poisoning your fellow americans. Yeah, fracking is "maybe" contaminating groundwater... keep telling yourself that, just like eating mcdonalds every day will "maybe" make you a fat ass.

[shlver]

If I lived in PA I would be extremely interested to learn where my water comes from. Not only has PA been heavily settled for a long time, but all of the mining, fracking and other energy industry related activities have a pretty strong impact on drinking water. You should check out the documentary gasland, people in your state have tap water that is literally flammable and explosive due to massive amounts of methane and other chemicals leaking in to their drinking water wells (probably) due to hydraulic fracking.
Gasland is a bunch of fraudulent junk.
http://cogcc.state.co.us/library/GASLAND%20DOC.pdf
In the introduction, he was burning biogenic gas not fractured gas in his tap water.

[rivers to gates]

Miguel Rakiewicz writes in Tips and Notes:

Spiegel.com has today published the English translation of its interview of “The Cold Sun” author, Fritz Vahrenholt.

Not only is Vahrenholt a prominent Social Democrat and former German Environment Minister, but also outgoing CEO of the renewable energy group RWE Innogy.

It’s an extensive interview, touching upon the various climate-influencing factors left out by the IPCC in its promotion of CO2 as the apocalyptic threat to mankind, and the massive government intervention and expense to supposedly make it go away.

“The Cold Sun” author explains the reason of his current point of view as
follows:

Vahrenholt:

For years, I disseminated the hypotheses of the IPCC, and I feel duped. Renewable energy is near and dear to me, and I’ve been fighting for its expansion for more than 30 years. My concern is that if citizens discover that the people who warn of a climate disaster are only telling half the truth, they will no longer be prepared to pay higher electricity costs for wind and solar (energy). Then the conversion of our energy supply will lack the necessary acceptance.


http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,813814,00.html



Vahrenholt: In the second half of the 20th century, the sun was more active than it had been in more than 2,000 years. This "large solar maximum," as astronomers call it, has contributed at least as much to global warming as the greenhouse gas CO2. But the sun has been getting weaker since 2005, and it will continue to do so in the next few decades. Consequently, we can only expect cooling from the sun for now.

[Brunch@Five]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,813814,00.html

irresponsible journalism. recently there have been several publications that have disproved correlation between sun activity and earth temperature.

Hansen, J., Sato, M., Kharecha, P., and von Schuckmann, K. (2011): Earth's energy imbalance and implications, Atmos. Chem. Phys. Discuss., 11, 27031-27105, doi:10.5194/acpd-11-27031-2011, 2011

Miller, G. H., et al. (2012), Abrupt onset of the Little Ice Age triggered by volcanism and sustained by sea-ice/ocean feedbacks, Geophys. Res. Lett., doi:10.1029/2011GL050168, in press.

don't get your information from pseudo-scientist and pseudo-scientific media

edit: your media outlet also got info about Vahrenholt wrong. Neither is he a famous politician, nor is he a former German Environment Minister. Rakiewicz misread the article on Spiegel.com

[KeylessEntry]

Gasland is a bunch of fraudulent junk.
http://cogcc.state.co.us/library/GASLAND%20DOC.pdf
In the introduction, he was burning biogenic gas not fractured gas in his tap water.


If they are really unrelated, why did biogenic methane only show up in explosive concentrations in these wells after drilling had taken place? There should have been exploding faucets all over colorado and PA for years. Also if you read your own link, they talk about 3 particular wells in Weld County that appeared in gasland and one of them was actually shown to be contaminated with both types of methane, so this article actually confirms that fracking can contaminate groundwater.

Lets pretend for a minute that fracking does not contaminate groundwater. That doesnt change the fact that numerous gas companies have been caught illegaly disposing their fracking wastewater in PA streams and rivers. That doesnt change the fact that mountaintop removal and other coal mining activities have an enormous impact on water quality. Bottom line is, if you live in PA you should be very interested in your water.

[rivers to gates]

irresponsible journalism. recently there have been several publications that have disproved correlation between sun activity and earth temperature.


James Hansen is a doomsday kook.

James Hansen said that we would get El Nino last year and we got La Nina again.

http://www.real-science.com/hansen-el-nino-update-2

Really this whole thing should be called, The Green Religion. Because that's what it is. A religion.

[Bigsmoke]

global warming is so 2006

[shlver]

If they are really unrelated, why did biogenic methane only show up in explosive concentrations in these wells after drilling had taken place? There should have been exploding faucets all over colorado and PA for years.
Baseless inference.

Also if you read your own link, they talk about 3 particular wells in Weld County that appeared in gasland and one of them was actually shown to be contaminated with both types of methane, so this article actually confirms that fracking can contaminate groundwater.

No this article confirms that documentaries reflect the motives of their makers. Disinformation and misrepresentation to further their cause.

Lets pretend for a minute that fracking does not contaminate groundwater. That doesnt change the fact that numerous gas companies have been caught illegaly disposing their fracking wastewater in PA streams and rivers. That doesnt change the fact that mountaintop removal and other coal mining activities have an enormous impact on water quality. Bottom line is, if you live in PA you should be very interested in your water.
Sure, doesn't change the fact that Gasland is fraudulent. It also doesn't change the fact that it is still an open question. As for my opinion, I think fracing is fine. It is due to shoddy casing and cementing. Even with faulty casing, the pressure gradient is enough to pull liquid up the pipe from the aquifer. Where the problem lies is wells with faulty casing that are shut in and it creates a pressure gradient up the well and into lower rock layers. Fracing cannot contaminate with proper casing/cementing.

[rivers to gates]

global warming is so 2006

1.Global Warming
2.Climate Change
3.Now there is Global Weirding and Climate Disruption. :oldlol:

[DeuceWallaces]

Baseless inference.

No this article confirms that documentaries reflect the motives of their makers. Disinformation and misrepresentation to further their cause.

Sure, doesn't change the fact that Gasland is fraudulent. It also doesn't change the fact that it is still an open question. As for my opinion, I think fracing is fine. It is due to shoddy casing and cementing. Even with faulty casing, the pressure gradient is enough to pull liquid up the pipe from the aquifer. Where the problem lies is wells with faulty casing that are shut in and it creates a pressure gradient up the well and into lower rock layers. Fracing cannot contaminate with proper casing/cementing.

Lol if you think mining companies use proper protocols. I'd like to take you on a nice tour of Eastern Kentucky.

[rivers to gates]

http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/church-of-global-warming-political-cartoon.jpg

[KeylessEntry]

Baseless inference.


Yeah its inference, but its definitely not baseless


No this article confirms that documentaries reflect the motives of their makers. Disinformation and misrepresentation to further their cause.


Sure, doesn't change the fact that Gasland is fraudulent. It also doesn't change the fact that it is still an open question. As for my opinion, I think fracing is fine. It is due to shoddy casing and cementing. Even with faulty casing, the pressure gradient is enough to pull liquid up the pipe from the aquifer. Where the problem lies is wells with faulty casing that are shut in and it creates a pressure gradient up the well and into lower rock layers. Fracing cannot contaminate with proper casing/cementing.

from the colorado gas commission

Gasland features three Weld County landowners, Mike Markham, Renee McClure, and Aimee Ellsworth, whose water wells were allegedly contaminated by oil and gas development. The COGCC investigated complaints from all three landowners in 2008 and 2009, and we issued written reports summarizing our findings on each. We concluded that Aimee Ellsworth’s well contained a mixture of biogenic and thermogenic methane that was in part attributable to oil and gas development, and Mrs. Ellsworth and an operator reached a settlement in that case.

[shlver]

Lol if you think mining companies use proper protocols. I'd like to take you on a nice tour of Eastern Kentucky.
So? If they do, fracing is safe.


Yeah its inference, but its definitely not baseless
Yes it is. You are assuming causality when they have no connection. Biogenic methane is not the result of fracing.

[DeuceWallaces]

So? If they do, fracing is safe.

That has yet to be proven. Even if it is you shouldn't enact a policy that will be subject to faulty protocol and just accept it as being OK.

[shlver]

That has yet to be proven. Even if it is you shouldn't enact a policy that will be subject to faulty protocol and just accept it as being OK.
Sure you can't prove that it is completely harmless. I think fracing should continue innovating with tight regulation as it's net negative or positive impact in the future is still in question.

[KeylessEntry]

Yes it is. You are assuming causality when they have no connection. Biogenic methane is not the result of fracing.

If there is really no connection, there should be examples of exploding faucets from before fracing, as well as examples of exploding faucets in other areas of the country where aquifers have high biogenic methane content but fracing has not taken place. Also, despite the fact that biogenic methane is not the type being extracted in CO and PA, that does not prove that highly elevated methane concentrations in well water near fracing operations in CO and PA have no connection to fracing activities.

The bottom line is that nobody really knows the facts about the dangers and long term environmental impacts of fracing. There is evidence pointing in both directions. Really this is a case of type 1 vs type 2 error.

[Brunch@Five]

James Hansen is a doomsday kook.

James Hansen said that we would get El Nino last year and we got La Nina again.

http://www.real-science.com/hansen-el-nino-update-2

Really this whole thing should be called, The Green Religion. Because that's what it is. A religion.

attack the message, not the messenger. If you're unable to read and digest scientific literature, you're not even worth debating with.
That said, El Nino/La Nina is unpredictable thus far. Science does not know how, why and when it happens. No need to laugh at scientists trying to, though.

also: "

[Bigsmoke]

1.Global Warming
2.Climate Change
3.Now there is Global Weirding and Climate Disruption. :oldlol:

a little water doesn't hurt to all my ****** at Florida, NY, Boston, ect.

http://architecture2030.org/slr/boston_ma

[shlver]

If there is really no connection, there should be examples of exploding faucets from before fracing, as well as examples of exploding faucets in other areas of the country where aquifers have high biogenic methane content but fracing has not taken place. Also, despite the fact that biogenic methane is not the type being extracted in CO and PA, that does not prove that highly elevated methane concentrations in well water near fracing operations in CO and PA have no connection to fracing activities.

The bottom line is that nobody really knows the facts about the dangers and long term environmental impacts of fracing. There is evidence pointing in both directions. Really this is a case of type 1 vs type 2 error.
http://eidmarcellus.org/2011/08/07/extinquishing-the-flaming-faucet-exploding-the-myth/

[rivers to gates]

[QUOTE=Brunch@Five]attack the message, not the messenger. If you're unable to read and digest scientific literature, you're not even worth debating with.
That said, El Nino/La Nina is unpredictable thus far. Science does not know how, why and when it happens. No need to laugh at scientists trying to, though.

also: "

[rivers to gates]

Corruption Of The US Temperature Record

Prior to the year 2000, the USHCN and GISS temperature database showed US temperatures as having peaked in the 1930s, with 1934 (by far) the hottest year

[rivers to gates]

Btw, since Hansen seems to believe that we're almost at the tipping point I have to think that he should retire from preaching soon. That is if he can stop staging shows so that he can get arrested.:facepalm

[Meticode]

I've lived in Wisconsin for 8 years now and every year we usually have 25-30 inches of snow by now. This year we've had like maybe 9. and we had a couple days in January where the highs were in the 50s. :oldlol: So unusual.

[rivers to gates]

I've lived in Wisconsin for 8 years now and every year we usually have 25-30 inches of snow by now. This year we've had like maybe 9. and we had a couple days in January where the highs were in the 50s. :oldlol: So unusual.

140 Years Ago This Week


In October 1871, Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan and several other states were hit by the largest fires in US history (5 million+ acres) including one which destroyed Chicago, and another which burned over a thousand people to death in Wisconsin.

http://www.real-science.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/ScreenHunter_12-Oct.-22-17.55.jpg

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=KodcAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Q1cNAAAAIBAJ&pg=1818,1438614&dq=wisconsin+fire&hl=en

[rivers to gates]

The Himalayas and nearby peaks have lost no ice in the past 10 years, study shows.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/feb/08/glaciers-mountains

The always correct scientists are stunned! :oldlol:

[DeuceWallaces]

That's fantastic. One place in the world isn't losing ice.

Why don't you post articles from the hundreds of other places that drastically are.

[Brunch@Five]

if you insist on believing pseudo-scientific websites without proper methodology that's your thing.

What makes these websites a more credible source of information than peer-reviewed journals? The fact that they're "inofficial"? Climate-change-skeptics have much more of an economic incentive to taint data and post false facts

[rivers to gates]

1927 : Sunbathing Near The North Pole

http://www.real-science.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/ScreenHunter_172-Feb.-10-08.33.jpg

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/58314725?searchTerm=%22climate%20change%22&searchLimits=

[Nick Young]

1927 : Sunbathing Near The North Pole

http://www.real-science.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/ScreenHunter_172-Feb.-10-08.33.jpg

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/58314725?searchTerm=%22climate%20change%22&searchLimits=
global warming-human caused:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Nick Young]

That's fantastic. One place in the world isn't losing ice.

Why don't you post articles from the hundreds of other places that drastically are.
http://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/1998changesannotated.gif
explain, sport

[rivers to gates]

Corruption in the NOAA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F2ANV_w9XI&list=PL67459161E0C1500A&index=2&feature=plpp_video

[blablabla]

that whole global warming thing is exaggerated by the media to sell you shit like hybrid cars

[Hazard]

Holy shit the amount of idiocy running rampant in this thread is beyond obnoxious. Cant believe there are still people that think that our actions have no impact on the climate despite an array of scientific data. W/e believe what's convenient to you, truly the cowards way out of a shitty situation is to completely disregard it. I hope I live to see it all come down.

[Nick Young]

Holy shit the amount of idiocy running rampant in this thread is beyond obnoxious. Cant believe there are still people that think that our actions have no impact on the climate despite an array of scientific data. W/e believe what's convenient to you, truly the cowards way out of a shitty situation is to completely disregard it. I hope I live to see it all come down.
explain
http://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/1998changesannotated.gif
:confusedshrug:

the idiots are the sheep who just blindly believe these "accurate" scientific studies when the scientists keep getting exposed time after time of changing their results to suit their agenda.

[Hazard]

explain
http://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/1998changesannotated.gif
:confusedshrug:

the idiots are the sheep who just blindly believe these "accurate" scientific studies when the scientists keep getting exposed time after time of changing their results to suit their agenda.
Everything is ok, global warming is a myth. Go back to sleep, ignorance comes without consequence.

[rivers to gates]

Everything is ok, global warming is a myth. Go back to sleep, ignorance comes without consequence.

Jesus. Some folks fear the Global Warming scare the way religious folks fear god.

[Hazard]

Jesus. Some folks fear the Global Warming scare the way religious folks fear god.
Right, except only one of those can be supported by scientific data. But imo humanity will wipe itself out, before mother nature has a chance. A bunch of stupid monkeys flinging feces at each other, except substitute feces with missiles, and bullets.

[Nick Young]

Right, except only one of those can be supported by scientific data. But imo humanity will wipe itself out, before mother nature has a chance. A bunch of stupid monkeys flinging feces at each other, except substitute feces with missiles, and bullets.
"scientific data"
http://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/1998changesannotated.gif

[QUOTE]I

[Hazard]

"scientific data"
http://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/1998changesannotated.gif






http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100017393/climategate-the-final-nail-in-the-coffin-of-anthropogenic-global-warming/
Explain, sport. Why do you continue to blindly follow these people?:confusedshrug:
I don't blindly follow any people. I witness the temperature spikes myself. For example it could be 65 during the day and it drops to 35 at night. A 30 degree drop from daytime to nighttime is pretty damn significant wouldn't you agree? Hmm I wonder why that is, could it be because the sun is giving out more heat than it should be? Think about it, sport.

[Nick Young]

I don't blindly follow any people. I witness the temperature spikes myself. For example it could be 65 during the day and it drops to 35 at night. A 30 degree drop from daytime to nighttime is pretty damn significant wouldn't you agree? Hmm I wonder why that is, could it be because the sun is giving out more heat than it should be? Think about it, sport.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
So these climate gate emails are imaginary? All this evidence of scientists CHANGING and MANIPULATING data means nothing to you?:facepalm

Big drops in temperature between night and day HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY NORMAL THROUGHOUT HUMAN HISTORY, CLOWN

[Hazard]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
So these climate gate emails are imaginary? All this evidence of scientists CHANGING and MANIPULATING data means nothing to you?:facepalm

Big drops in temperature between night and day HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY NORMAL THROUGHOUT HUMAN HISTORY, CLOWN
You may have a point if you're living in the desert. However you talking out your ass means absolutely nothing to me. The more you post the more I'm convinced that you're a complete moron.

[Nick Young]

You may have a point if you're living in the desert. However you talking out your ass means absolutely nothing to me. The more you post the more I'm convinced that you're a complete moron.
[QUOTE]The fact is that we can

[Balla_Status]

If there is really no connection, there should be examples of exploding faucets from before fracing, as well as examples of exploding faucets in other areas of the country where aquifers have high biogenic methane content but fracing has not taken place. Also, despite the fact that biogenic methane is not the type being extracted in CO and PA, that does not prove that highly elevated methane concentrations in well water near fracing operations in CO and PA have no connection to fracing activities.

The bottom line is that nobody really knows the facts about the dangers and long term environmental impacts of fracing. There is evidence pointing in both directions. Really this is a case of type 1 vs type 2 error.

Funny you bring up weld county. I've been fracing in it the past two weeks. Let me break it down for you again because you failed to read my first post.

Fracing has been going on since the 60s in this county. And the people who were lighting their faucets on fire get their water from a coal bed formation.

Now, this coal bed also has methane in it. CBM, if you will. And what's interesting about coals is the gas is in the matrix of the rock, not the pores. And coal contains A LOT of water. So in order to extract any gas from the coal, you must dewater it first.

The coal is pressurized by the water and is keeping the gas from coming out. Once the coal is "dewatered," the reservoir pressure drops allowing the gas to come out of the matrix and produce.

This is what happened to the people in Colorado. And you keep saying methane this, methane that. We don't frac using methane. The only gases we use to frac (and it isn't in weld county) are CO2 and Nitrogen.

You're worried about frac chemicals but there are no frac chemicals found in the water. Only methane. So fracing absolutely cannot be the reason for the methane found in the water if you don't frac it in the first place.

The only way that fracing can be the cause of contaminating the water is if the frac length (in a horizontal well) extends thousands upon thousands of feet vertically into the water table.

And after the frac is done, the operator usually flows back almost all the fluid that has been pumped downhole (some of it will stay in the formation) up to the surface. And if there were any leaks in the casing or cementing, this would have been noticed during the frac. The pressure would instantly drop since the fluid would go right to that leak.

Oh and fracing is done using 99% water and sand. The other 1% are chemicals. One thing I am concerned about is the amount of water we use to frac. Recycled water should be used as often as possible to conserve water. Engineers, like me, are the ones that have to figure out how to make it work.

And Halliburton has recently developed a Cleanstim fluid using all food products. An employee even drank the fluid at a hearing in colorado.

[Hazard]

Sea level rising due to glaciers and ice caps melting? Nah must be bullshit. (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/02/120209100544.htm)

[Nick Young]

Sea level rising due to glaciers and ice caps melting? Nah must be bullshit. (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/02/120209100544.htm)
Um so?:confusedshrug:

Have you forgotten the medieval warming period, where the earth's temperature rose at a much faster rate then we are currently experiencing?

Did you forget about the 7 major iceages the earth went in and out of naturally?

Why do you believe that all of a sudden, ignoring 4 billion years of earth's history that says the contrary, that it is now us humans who are responsible for global temperature change?

[RidonKs]

Have you forgotten the medieval warming period
clearly you haven't, it's one of max three points you consistently bring up in trying to oversimplify this astonishingly complex issue. you're a literal personification of bill o'reillys talking points.

[SlayerEnraged]

Um so?:confusedshrug:

Have you forgotten the medieval warming period, where the earth's temperature rose at a much faster rate then we are currently experiencing?

Did you forget about the 7 major iceages the earth went in and out of naturally?

Why do you believe that all of a sudden, ignoring 4 billion years of earth's history that says the contrary, that it is now us humans who are responsible for global temperature change?

U say the media is exaggerating and lieng about global warming...Well in an inconvienent truth it totally busted some scientists who changed what their conclusions were from imformation gathered after the government pretty much told them to say what they said. The government covers up a lot of invonvient truths and probably are covering up global warming. Area 51 ring a bell?

[SlayerEnraged]

Um so?:confusedshrug:

Have you forgotten the medieval warming period, where the earth's temperature rose at a much faster rate then we are currently experiencing?

Did you forget about the 7 major iceages the earth went in and out of naturally?

Why do you believe that all of a sudden, ignoring 4 billion years of earth's history that says the contrary, that it is now us humans who are responsible for global temperature change?


http://processtrends.com/pg_global_warming.htm These charts don't look like your bogus ones. I guess we as humans never wanna take responsibility for anything :rolleyes:. I suppose that it's not our fault either that fish species and other ocean forms of life are going to be wiped out in under 100 years. It's the fishes fault that they got caught on our nets or pulls, etc :rolleyes:

[Nick Young]

clearly you haven't, it's one of max three points you consistently bring up in trying to oversimplify this astonishingly complex issue. you're a literal personification of bill o'reillys talking points.
I have never watched Fox News, Bill O'Reilly, and I'm not a republican or conservative, thanks for trying to categorize and dismiss me though clown, simply because you have absolutely no answer to my legit questions.

Also slayer engraged, google "Climate gate" and educate yourself. Governments aren't trying to hide global warming. They are trying to force idiots into believing it and fearing it. Fear is one of the most powerful ways to control people, and it's a good way to trick idiots into paying more taxes and not complaining about it. Carbon tax, lawl.

[Nick Young]

http://processtrends.com/pg_global_warming.htm These charts don't look like your bogus ones. I guess we as humans never wanna take responsibility for anything :rolleyes:. I suppose that it's not our fault either that fish species and other ocean forms of life are going to be wiped out in under 100 years. It's the fishes fault that they got caught on our nets or pulls, etc :rolleyes:
220 year sample size? The earth is 4 billion years old broseph. Here's a solid sample size for you
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/PageMill_Images/image157.gif

Oh wow, the earth's ice volume seems to go up and down naturally, WTF!!!

[RidonKs]

the point wasn't to categorize you as a stock and trade o'hannibeck republican, it was to tell you that you employ their exact same methodology... and in the same vein that their oversimplification and dumbing down for the masses is perfectly transparent on FOX to anybody with a brain over half the size of a walnut, well, you get the idea... or should i not make that assumption?

[SlayerEnraged]

220 year sample size? The earth is 4 billion years old broseph. Here's a solid sample size for you
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/PageMill_Images/image157.gif

Oh wow, the earth's ice volume seems to go up and down naturally, WTF!!!


Do u realize that the top 10 hottest seasons on earth have come from 1991-2005?

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/temp-analysis-2009.html

Hottest years=1990's and 2000's when the population of people went WAY up. Sure there's natural heating/cooling periods but it's not a natural warming period when the temperatures are HIGHER than EVER before.

[Nick Young]

the point wasn't to categorize you as a stock and trade o'hannibeck republican, it was to tell you that you employ their exact same methodology... and in the same vein that their oversimplification and dumbing down for the masses is perfectly transparent on FOX to anybody with a brain over half the size of a walnut, well, you get the idea... or should i not make that assumption?
Oversimplification? How? I just see things big picture and don't panic like a brainless chicken little over a 200 year old sample size that isn't really any durastically different from anything the earth has been constantly going through, on it's own, for 4 billion years.

Scientists still can't explain why the ice ages happened. No reason for me to blindly believe the world is going to end because some ice in the poles is melting or some species are going extinct.

It is the way of the world. Species go extinct, others flourish and take their place and are able to adapt, it's called natural selection and has been going on since life began, deal with it.

Stop trying to blame oil companies and gas emissions for all of the world's problems, global warming is just a good way to distract people from what they really should be thinking about.

Again, explain climategate, scientists at Europes biggest climate research institute admitting to manipulating data to suit their funders agenda.

[Nick Young]

Do u realize that the top 10 hottest seasons on earth have come from 1991-2005?

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/temp-analysis-2009.html

Hottest years=1990's and 2000's when the population of people went WAY up. Sure there's natural heating/cooling periods but it's not a natural warming period when the temperatures are HIGHER than EVER before.
Really? I didn't know we were able to accurately measure the earth's temperature all the way back to 3 billion years ago, or even 100,000 years ago. Hmm.

Oh wait, that's right, we're not!:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:


This is one of the ways they sell global warming to the masses: Us vs them, people who believe in it are smart, people who don't believe in it are dumb. The same way organic food companies are selling their products to vegans and vegetarians AND MAKING BANK.

Marketing has so much control over you people and you don't even realize it. Stop being a sheep. Research things yourself. Form your own opinions.

[SlayerEnraged]

Really? I didn't know we were able to accurately measure the earth's temperature all the way back to 3 billion years ago, or even 100,000 years ago. Hmm.

Oh wait, that's right, we're not!:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

You're telling me we couldn't measure temperature accurately 200 years ago? Even if this is just a natural heating period, I suggest we prepare or do something about it. Lots of places relying on water from glaciers and such melting aren't going to be having that because allmost all of it has already melted. Plus it's estimated that the sea level may rise 20 feet very soon and that's actually a lot of people that are gonna be dead unless they get gills. What are we gonna do when that kind of thing happens?

[Nick Young]

You're telling me we couldn't measure temperature accurately 200 years ago? Even if this is just a natural heating period, I suggest we prepare or do something about it. Lots of places relying on water from glaciers and such melting aren't going to be having that because allmost all of it has already melted. Plus it's estimated that the sea level may rise 20 feet very soon and that's actually a lot of people that are gonna be dead unless they get gills. What are we gonna do when that kind of thing happens?
200 years is actually as far back as our current measurements can accurately measure.

The sea levels are going to rise 20 feet very soon? People will need gills? Really? Where did you hear this? Why were you stupid enough to believe the fear tactics? Link please.

[SlayerEnraged]

200 years is actually as far back as our current measurements can accurately measure.

The sea levels are going to rise 20 feet very soon? People will need gills? Really? Where did you hear this? Why were you stupid enough to believe the fear tactics? Link please.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jan/15/sea-level-climate-change

Read down there...It's gonna be a 20 foot raise if the entire ice cap melts whether it is from global warming or a natural warm period for the earth.

http://news.mongabay.com/2006/0323-sea_levels.html

Whatevers making ice and stuff melt, It''s gonna make it rise.

[Nick Young]

If the entire ice cap melts? WTF You really think that will happen?:roll: :roll: :roll:


Even if the entire north and south pole do melt (you really believe this fear mongering? Really?:roll: :roll: :roll: ) it would not happen "very soon"

[RidonKs]

Again, explain climategate, scientists at Europes biggest climate research institute admitting to manipulating data to suit their funders agenda.

i'm not about to bother. if you buy into it as fully as you do, it just means you haven't bothered to research it. let me tell you a quick story of how i reached my conclusions.

here's a post i wrote at the end of 2009, right around the time the story hit big (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3704814&postcount=2)
here's another longer post of similar substance (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3704969&postcount=5)

in both posts, as intellectually honest as any other i punch up, i express a sincere and healthy degree of real skepticism in climate change as a whole... based on what i had heard about the scandal. i use the word 'disconcerting' to sum up my feelings on the issue. with an open mind, i encountered the story and said to myself "damn, this really makes me rethink everything the so-called consensus has led me to believe".

and now, i dismiss them whenever i get a chance. why is that?

BECAUSE I DID RESEARCH. and it wasn't even passive research, which most people -- myself included -- plainly don't pursue to the depths required to feel concrete in their opinions because it's a lot of f*cking work. no, i wrote a 15 page report for a class called Truth and Propaganda, on the integrity and hyperbole of the media reaction to the Climategate scandal.

my conclusions inform my current opinion. it. was. all. BULLSHIT. every quote that got tossed around the media, from this one


“I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temperatures to each series for the last 20 years (i.e. from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.”
to this one


“The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t. The CERES data published in the August BAMS 09 supplement on 2008 shows there should be even more warming: but the data are surely wrong. Our observing system is inadequate.”

to this one

"....that it would be nice to try to 'contain' the putative 'MWP', even if we don’t yet have a hemispheric mean reconstruction available that far back...."


all add up to nothing. i looked into their context; i looked into the context of all the infamous supposedly conspiratorial coverup exposed as liars quotes. none of them were significant in any way. it made the paper exposing the media reaction as absurd really easy to write.

i'm not going to go in depth and explain why all of these quotes are meaningless. you aren't worth the time. but at the very least, you can't question the credentials of my honesty after surveying the posts i linked above. just like you can't question them now.

you're misinformed on this issue like you're misinformed on most issues. you pick 2-3 bitesized factoids that take papers to adequately explain and force them into throats of people who understand them a million times better than you to. you're a funny guy with a charming personality, but your fault as a human being will always be that you'd rather SEEM right than BE right. that's why your posts are so layden with bullshit and it's why nobody of merit will ever take you seriously. nor should they. you're an image guy without a lick of substance. enjoy your shallow life, i'm sure you'll be really really really popular for the duration... and you'll keep going back for more. like a bucket with a hole in it, you'll never be fulfilled. actually, maybe a better analogy would be a whore. a filthy disgusting social whore.

[Nick Young]

LAWL^^^ someone's mad.

quotes taken out of context? LAWL.

Also tell me how the earth going though several major ice ages on it's own is a "bitesized factoid" I shove down people's throats with no real knowledge?

Did the Earth not go through several dramatic climate changes much more dramatic than the current warming phase the earth is experiencing?

That is what most of my opinion is based on. I'd hardly call the Ice Ages, which lasted several millions of years "bite sized factoids":facepalm

The difference between me and little quasi-intellectuals such as yourself is that I see things big-picture and you and your ilk struggle to do the same and so spend a majority of your time arguing ultimately inconsequential semantics.

[RidonKs]

yes. very mad. grrrr.

not reading the rest of your post.

[rivers to gates]

[B]Don

[rivers to gates]

Romm November 30, 2011 : Texas Drought Is A 1000 Year Event


Joe Romm published this insightful analysis just over two months ago :

[quote]Warming-Enhanced Texas Drought Is Once in

[Nick Young]

[QUOTE=rivers to gates][B]Don

[Nick Young]

Romm November 30, 2011 : Texas Drought Is A 1000 Year Event


Joe Romm published this insightful analysis just over two months ago :



http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/11/30/378412/texas-drought-historic-off-the-charts-says-state039s-climatologist/

How did he do? Compare his 1000 year drought vs. 55 years ago.

http://www.real-science.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/1957vs2012.gif

http://www.real-science.com/romm-november-30-2011-texas-drought-1000
LAWL 1 in every 1000 years event when just 50 years ago it was much worse:roll: :roll: :roll:

Do you idiots not see the trend of complete fear mongering and base statement making yet?


The marketing of global warming is genius.
They first gain control of people and their attention by appealing to their chicken little aspect and guilt. The world is going to end, polar bears and pandas DYING and IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT.

Then they appeal to human nature's tribal instinct. US vs THEM. You're either for global warming or against it! People who believe in it are enlightened and intelligent. People who don't believe it are idiots!

Global warming helps the oil industry AND the climate change industry. Prices of oil rise when everyone is repeatedly reminded the stocks are finite. Sales of priuses soar when idiots get convinced they are helping to save the world by purchasing a $50,000 car. Everybody wins except the stupid people who get exploited for their money.

I don't understand why all these obvious things are so difficult for you people to see.

[gigantes]

ill let my grand kids worry about this kinda shiet
yup... that's the prevailing thinking, and pretty much how we got to where we are now with this issue.

[fos]

I remember when I was in school I had some science professor, don't recall what the field was, and was surprised he was actually against the man made global warming theory of the time (not saying it couldn't happen but that they lacked any persuasive evidence). Really resonated with me because of how liberal college professors are. I remember having one anthrop class where the professor was still teaching lies from 'the mismeasure of man' to prove how scientists are inherently racist. College can be pretty annoying at times if you're not a close-minded liberal Democrat.

[fos]

LAWL 1 in every 1000 years event when just 50 years ago it was much worse:roll: :roll: :roll:

Do you idiots not see the trend of complete fear mongering and base statement making yet?


The marketing of global warming is genius.
They first gain control of people and their attention by appealing to their chicken little aspect and guilt. The world is going to end, polar bears and pandas DYING and IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT.

Then they appeal to human nature's tribal instinct. US vs THEM. You're either for global warming or against it! People who believe in it are enlightened and intelligent. People who don't believe it are idiots!

Global warming helps the oil industry AND the climate change industry. Prices of oil rise when everyone is repeatedly reminded the stocks are finite. Sales of priuses soar when idiots get convinced they are helping to save the world by purchasing a $50,000 car. Everybody wins except the stupid people who get exploited for their money.

I don't understand why all these obvious things are so difficult for you people to see.

Repped

Since we're posting wikipedia articles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scienti fic_assessment_of_global_warming

[Hazard]

LAWL 1 in every 1000 years event when just 50 years ago it was much worse:roll: :roll: :roll:

Do you idiots not see the trend of complete fear mongering and base statement making yet?


The marketing of global warming is genius.
They first gain control of people and their attention by appealing to their chicken little aspect and guilt. The world is going to end, polar bears and pandas DYING and IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT.

Then they appeal to human nature's tribal instinct. US vs THEM. You're either for global warming or against it! People who believe in it are enlightened and intelligent. People who don't believe it are idiots!

Global warming helps the oil industry AND the climate change industry. Prices of oil rise when everyone is repeatedly reminded the stocks are finite. Sales of priuses soar when idiots get convinced they are helping to save the world by purchasing a $50,000 car. Everybody wins except the stupid people who get exploited for their money.

I don't understand why all these obvious things are so difficult for you people to see.
So you don't believe in global warming because people are buying $50,000 priuses. Welcome to capitalist society little guy, people have been exploited for their naivety ever since advertising was invented.

[DeuceWallaces]

Don't waste your time arguing with someone who's posting ridiculous figures from some shit websites.

[Hazard]

Don't waste your time arguing with someone who's posting ridiculous figures from some shit websites.
True, he is a goddamn fool. Still I cant deny my argumentative nature.

[Nick Young]

LAWL 1 in every 1000 years event when just 50 years ago it was much worse:roll: :roll: :roll:

Do you idiots not see the trend of complete fear mongering and base statement making yet?


The marketing of global warming is genius.
They first gain control of people and their attention by appealing to their chicken little aspect and guilt. The world is going to end, polar bears and pandas DYING and IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT.

Then they appeal to human nature's tribal instinct. US vs THEM. You're either for global warming or against it! People who believe in it are enlightened and intelligent. People who don't believe it are idiots!

Global warming helps the oil industry AND the climate change industry. Prices of oil rise when everyone is repeatedly reminded the stocks are finite. Sales of priuses soar when idiots get convinced they are helping to save the world by purchasing a $50,000 car. Everybody wins except the stupid people who get exploited for their money.

I don't understand why all these obvious things are so difficult for you people to see.
damn what a good post

[Nick Young]

Don't waste your time arguing with someone who's posting ridiculous figures from some shit websites.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scienti fic_assessment_of_global_warming

forest clown

[rawimpact]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scienti fic_assessment_of_global_warming

forest clown


You are a dumbass... let me elaborate. First your sources were in question, it takes what nearly five months to post a link which contains a list of scientists who acknowledge global warming? You realize this happens to support the other posters right? Those scientists are not refuting global warming, they are not agreeing with the potential effects it may have or the source(s) of the climate change.

and by the way, wikipedia is not a valid source when discussing the sciences, maybe for liberal arts.

[senelcoolidge]

Records show that the Earth has actually been cooling. The Earth goes through cycles. This whole global warming crap is a big con. Not to say that you should just pollute, pollution is bad, but some people are making big time money on this con.

[Nick Young]

You are a dumbass... let me elaborate. First your sources were in question, it takes what nearly five months to post a link which contains a list of scientists who acknowledge global warming? You realize this happens to support the other posters right? Those scientists are not refuting global warming, they are not agreeing with the potential effects it may have or the source(s) of the climate change.

and by the way, wikipedia is not a valid source when discussing the sciences, maybe for liberal arts.
no one can deny that the earth gets warmer and cooler.

That has naturally been happening for billions of years.

It is arrogant and foolish to believe that the current change is the most dramatic in human history, and that humans and carbon emissions are the root of it all, especially when the European warming period in the 900s was a much more dramatic change and that was just in the past 1,000 years.

[Nick Young]

Records show that the Earth has actually been cooling. The Earth goes through cycles. This whole global warming crap is a big con. Not to say that you should just pollute, pollution is bad, but some people are making big time money on this con.
exactly. All scientific data also shows that the global temperature has been cooling for like the past 15 years or so.

It's all marketing and money making and dumbasses eat it up like the gospel truth.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

What are you thoughts on it?
A)Do you thinks it's total b.s?
B) Do you agree with the theory?
C)Do you think we are contributing to the problem, but scientists are overrating the effect of how much we're having on the temperature of the earth raising?
D)Do you care?
E)If you believe in it, do you have any soluions on how to reduce the ammounts of CO2 ND other greenhouse gases that we use?


Just had a interesting discussion in my class today about it. We also watched the Incovenient Truth with Al Gore in it which was pretty interesting. Before this I didn't know much about it or really care, but I thought it was definetely an interesting discussion.

I am concerned about air pollution but not global warming.

The Earth's temperature has gone through cycles before humans were around and before cars and factories and aerosol cans. The Co2 in othe atmosphere that man contributes to is roughly 3% of the whole and doesn't have any measurable impact on the Earth's temperature.

Like most things that politicians talk about this is really about money. Another way that the .gov can turn your money into their money. Another way for them to control what you do. They brow beat you about your carbon footprint while they fly around in private jets. Also, like most liberal causes, the root of it is demonizing and weakening capitolism. The reasons and reprocussions of that are too complex to discuss in this thread.

All I can say is don't believe the hype. Dig deeper. Policians will tell you the debate is over and that all scientists agree with them but that's not the case at all. Their data was cherry picked to begin with and when discoveries are made that contradict them it gets buried. We are all being lied to.....for our own good.

[Nick Young]

Climategate happened where Europe's biggest climate research institute was caught admitting to changing their data in order to fit an agenda and still retards blindly believe in the myth of global warming, I don't understand it.

[rufuspaul]

I think it's a natural cycle of the Earth to heat and cool, and human's are slightly speeding up the heating process in this cycle. That's pretty much what I feel in a nutshell about it.



Thank you Dr. Science!

[Meticode]

Thank you Dr. Science!
:oldlol: I was trying to post something simple. i have no clue if I think I'm right or wrong, but with the limited amount of research I've put into it. That's what I think.

Now whether or not all these things are going to happen (ice caps melting, water levels rising, famine, people fighting over water control) I have no damn clue. :confusedshrug:

[Meticode]

exactly. All scientific data also shows that the global temperature has been cooling for like the past 15 years or so.

It's all marketing and money making and dumbasses eat it up like the gospel truth.
I've read up on this and some say cooling other other's say the temperature has remain constant. Maybe the cooling and warming phases happen over a larger period of time? Just taking a 15 year sample isn't going to say much?

I don't know, I think what the earth goes through in it's cycles is still too complex for us begin to understand since we've lived on this rock for a short period of time.

We probably won't find out in our lifetimes though.

[DeuceWallaces]

Climategate happened where Europe's biggest climate research institute was caught admitting to changing their data in order to fit an agenda and still retards blindly believe in the myth of global warming, I don't understand it.

Lol except the part where every review exonerated them of wrongdoing.

You jackasses also love to fixate on temperature which is subject to other processes, or manipulation (i.e. means that mask extreme highs and lows), in favor of things that really matter like atmospheric CO2 ppm, growing season length, average high temps, palmer drought indicies, etc.

Aren't you in comic book school? Why don't you shut the **** up and go back to your little internet fantasy world where your life matters and you're not another idiot-loser-nobody.

[Nick Young]

Lol except the part where every review exonerated them of wrongdoing.

You jackasses also love to fixate on temperature which is subject to other processes, or manipulation (i.e. means that mask extreme highs and lows), in favor of things that really matter like atmospheric CO2 ppm, growing season length, average high temps, palmer drought indicies, etc.

Aren't you in comic book school? Why don't you shut the **** up and go back to your little internet fantasy world where your life matters and you're not another idiot-loser-nobody.
Stop projecting your life on to me tranny!

You called starface at 3am in the morning and left a threatening message on his answering machine. I'm the one with no life?:roll:

[Nanners]

Climategate happened where Europe's biggest climate research institute was caught admitting to changing their data in order to fit an agenda and still retards blindly believe in the myth of global warming, I don't understand it.


clearly

funny how the people with no scientific knowledge whatsoever are the ones who are so convinced that climate change is not happening. i guess its not that suprising considering we live in a country where half of the population questions the validity of evolution.

[AlphaWolf24]

I'm not as well read about the effect humans have on it as I should be but I do know that we are living through a polar shift. The poles create a magnetic field around the Earth which protects us from the suns rays. As the plates move the magnetism shifts with them causing the magnetic field to weaken and let in more sun rays.

I'm sure we have a minor effect on climate change, but I think the biggest effect we have on our environment is all the digging we're doing to acquire oil. There have been reports of Earthquakes around areas where oil companies drill and pump water through the Earth to somehow bring the oil to the surface. Not 100% sure about what goes into the process but it has an effect on the fault lines and creates quakes. Meaning that by doing that we shift the plates and cause them to converge which I can imagine also expedites the process of the polar shift.

I'm sure there are people more knowledgeable about this topic than I am and can explain it better, but that seems to be what is happening.


:facepalm ...not one ounce of eveidence shows drilling a few hundred feet into the Earths surface causes Earthquakes....your spreading polilitical agenda biased filth.



Yes, stop burning fossil fuels and stop releasing chemicals into the atmosphere. But that's not rational thinking. Its better to have oranges from Florida in NY and have 90% of our shit brought in from China while destroying the only planet within 20 light years that can sustain our parasitic existence.

"stop Burning fossil fuels"..???....so we have no society?..we all go back to living in the caves..


you are spoiled by the life that Fossil Fuel has given you....any food you want , computers , end of slavery , transportation , clothing , nearly everything that made mankind become what we are today has to do with burning fossil fuels for energy.

we should use our knowlege to make safer/cleaner ways to get it....anyone saying we should'nt use Fossil Fuels as enegy is crazy..it's the safest/greenest and easiest fuel we have.

[Nick Young]

clearly

funny how the people with no scientific knowledge whatsoever are the ones who are so convinced that climate change is not happening. i guess its not that suprising considering we live in a country where half of the population questions the validity of evolution.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :facepalm

[AlphaWolf24]

clearly

funny how the people with no scientific knowledge whatsoever are the ones who are so convinced that climate change is not happening. i guess its not that suprising considering we live in a country where half of the population questions the validity of evolution.


the problem is many so called experts also agree that there is no "Global Warming"

example :

The problem is we don’t know what the climate is doing. We thought we knew 20 years ago…. because it looked clear-cut, but it hasn’t happened,” Lovelock said. “We were supposed to be halfway toward a frying world now.”

Lovelock is retired now, but scientists all over the world are still researching the facts about global climate, revealing no consensus that humans are causing harmful climate change by burning fossil fuels and releasing CO2 into the atmosphere.

For example, a group of researchers from Germany, Sweden and the U.S. studied sediment from a lake in Siberia.

They found that that over the past 2.8 million years, extreme warm conditions have occurred near the lake at least 8 times, with maximum summer temperatures 4.5 degrees C (40 degrees F) warmer than now. The scientists wrote that their data could not be explained by greenhouse gases and solar activity alone.


right now we don't know anything...you can't just make a blanket statement saying "scientists think global warming is caused by humans"

- totally difffrent then saying a wizard in the sky created everything then made his son a zombie

[Nick Young]

They found that that over the past 2.8 million years, extreme warm conditions have occurred near the lake at least 8 times, with maximum summer temperatures 4.5 degrees C (40 degrees F) warmer than now. The scientists wrote that their data could not be explained by greenhouse gases and solar activity alone.
Exactly! People who believe in global warming so strongly are merely chicken littles who look at 50 years of data and draw wild conclusions from it, while ignoring millions of years of the Earth's history.

[Nanners]

the problem is many so called experts also agree that there is no "Global Warming"

example :


right now we don't know anything...you can't just make a blanket statement saying "scientists think global warming is caused by humans"

- totally difffrent then saying a wizard in the sky created everything then made his son a zombie

notice how my post doesnt say anything about global warming. its a misleading term used by morons and politicians.

[DeuceWallaces]

the problem is many so called experts also agree that there is no "Global Warming"

example :


right now we don't know anything...you can't just make a blanket statement saying "scientists think global warming is caused by humans"

- totally difffrent then saying a wizard in the sky created everything then made his son a zombie


That's not true.

[Bigsmoke]

i think its real but what will caring about it do?

[Nick Young]

That's not true.
denial of facts, what a tard.

Central Michigan's finest:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[DeuceWallaces]

Which facts are you referencing? Quick go link me another wikipedia page, or how about some blog with bootleg Excel graphs.

[Hazard]

"stop Burning fossil fuels"..???....so we have no society?..we all go back to living in the caves..


you are spoiled by the life that Fossil Fuel has given you....any food you want , computers , end of slavery , transportation , clothing , nearly everything that made mankind become what we are today has to do with burning fossil fuels for energy.

we should use our knowlege to make safer/cleaner ways to get it....anyone saying we should'nt use Fossil Fuels as enegy is crazy..it's the safest/greenest and easiest fuel we have.

Slavery predates written records and has existed in many cultures.[3] The number of slaves today is higher than at any point in history,[4] remaining as high as 12 million[5] to 27 million,[6][7] Most are debt slaves, largely in South Asia, who are under debt bondage incurred by lenders, sometimes even for generations.[8] Human trafficking is primarily used for forcing women and children into sex industries.[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

You left out a few things:
Genocide, drone attacks, nuclear weapons, pollution, deforestation (we kind of need oxygen to live, people forget that sometimes), extinction of countless species, overpopulation, MORE SLAVERY....

Oh and any food I want? How about food without GMO's? I want that... Clothing?? Are you ****ing retarded?

[kNIOKAS]

In for a quick comment: anybody read State of Fear by Michael Crichton? It's written in 2004, but it shows the unannounced side of global worming. loool

[AlphaWolf24]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

You left out a few things:
Genocide, drone attacks, nuclear weapons, pollution, deforestation (we kind of need oxygen to live, people forget that sometimes), extinction of countless species, overpopulation, MORE SLAVERY....

Oh and any food I want? How about food without GMO's? I want that... Clothing?? Are you ****ing retarded?


yeah that's right , we all have so rough now days...

before "oil" everyone danced around in green fields like "Julie Andrews in the sound of music"


oh wait , .......


- that's right , the average plumber lives better today then the King of England did 400 years ago...speaking of "plumbing"....

indoor plumbing...brought to by petro based products....


- you have it backwards son....people lived far worse before the industrial revolution and thus development of petroleum...

- you sound like a spoiled kid who says his new Ipad sucks and is Bad for his eyes.....you need the new Ipad6 one with higher res and cushioned edges.

[Unstoppabull]

It's real alright. Imagine the sea levels raising and more and more land disappear

[gigantes]

the problem is many so called experts also agree that there is no "Global Warming"
nah. the number of climate scientists who feel that man is linked to current global climate change ("global warming" is a BS term) is probably close to 99%. the number of major science orgs that feel that man is linked to current GCC is also probably close to 99%.

there is nobody else you should be paying attention to on this, assuming you're looking for the facts.

a great deal of money and expertise has been put in to a campaign to argue against science on this, including endorsing quite a few scientists in disciplines other than climate science to disagree with what the relevant experts are saying. amazingly, much of the money has been traced. you can actually see the documents online showing how exxon-mobile supports think tanks that find in their favor, including the amounts of money paid off to individuals.

so what i've learned is that people tend to care about what happens in their backyard, not nationally or globally. when it impacts them personally is when they start caring. so at this point i don't blame people for basically looking the other way and trying to keep the stress down. expecting more was probably the real mistake that most of us made... those of us who consider the GCC science sound.

on the positive tip, we have at least an ace in the hole (or two) to deal with the situation if it continues to get this bad, this quickly. one solution would be shooting particulate matter in to the atmosphere to try to moderate sunlight. one other would be starting up a massive program of carbon sequestration plants to try to quickly 'clean' the atmosphere.

both could turn out to be failures, or have unintended consequences, but at least they're some options. what sucks is being in the kind of global financial turmoil that we now find ourselves in. it makes any kind of solution much harder (if not impossible) to implement, and tends to put us in the 'perfect storm upon humanity' situation closer than the 'everything's going to work out just fine, johnny' category.

[Jailblazers7]

I think I may pursue environmental econ research in the future because I think showing that climate change is economicly/financially ineffecient is an important step to policy change. Congress and America only sees thingoin dollars and cents.

The youtube video "we stopped dreaming pt 2" that quotes Neil Degrasse Tyson talks about how our perspective on the environment changed when we saw Earth from space for the first time. I love those videos.

[KevinNYC]

I think I may pursue environmental econ research in the future because I think showing that climate change is economicly/financially ineffecient is an important step to policy change. Congress and America only sees thingoin dollars and cents.

The youtube video "we stopped dreaming pt 2" that quotes Neil Degrasse Tyson talks about how our perspective on the environment changed when we saw Earth from space for the first time. I love those videos.

Polls are showing that more and more Americans are believing man made climate change because of the extreme weather we've been having.

Parts of Maryland are in serious danger of being underwater.

The interesting thing is in the coming years, how long with the right-wing orthodoxy will be able to hold together saying this isn't happening. Parts of the Republican coalition are already recognizing the threat. Insurance companies (http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jan/17/local/la-me-gs-insurance-rates-driven-up-by-global-warming-npr-reports-20120116) know that sea level rise is going to mean way more flooding of coastal communities and that droughts will mean more forest fires. They are writing this into their policies. Military strategists (http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/culturelab/2010/04/the-climate-change-nightmares-of-military-strategists.html) consider global warming to be a national security issue.

In the next decade it's going to be harder and harder for folks like Rush Limbaugh to claim the science behind this is a hoax.

[KevinNYC]

The biggest climate denialist in the Congress is James Inhofe of Oklahoma (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/James_Inhofe) who has compared the EPA to the Gestapo and climate scientists to the Third Reich. Ironically, his state suffered through the hottest summer of any US state ever last year. The average temperature was 86.9 degrees F.
Oklahoma City had 63 days with 100+ degree highs in 2011. Texas was scorching too. Dallas had 70 days of over 100 degrees. Dallas had 4 days last year where the LOW temperature of the day was 86 degrees. That is it was 86 degrees F just BEFORE the sun came up.

[shlver]

The problem with the evidence and science behind anthropogenic climate change was its proponents error in representing it as a single viewpoint and then building up an argument for it instead of approaching it with a truly scientific inquiry of the cause of a complex phenomena like climate. They oversold their certainty in a hypothesis, and their "simple and evident" indications turned out to be more complex. This exposed themselves to the critique of bad science.

[DeuceWallaces]

The problem with the evidence and science behind anthropogenic climate change was its proponents error in representing it as a single viewpoint and then building up an argument for it instead of approaching it with a truly scientific inquiry of the cause of a complex phenomena like climate. They oversold their certainty in a hypothesis, and their "simple and evident" indications turned out to be more complex. This exposed themselves to the critique of bad science.

Uh, no, but an excellent attempt at verbosity.

[shlver]

Instead of posting consenting or dissenting experts(consensus has no part in the scientific method), why don't you guys post real data and science? If you guys want real data from ice core temps and co2 and temp feedback relationship from MODTRAN from a report I did a year back then either pm me or request here.

[shlver]

Uh, no, but an excellent attempt at verbosity.
As a supposed expert on one of the inputs to an immensely complex system, you post zero scientific evidence in these threads. Sorry but I'm not responding until you produce something of substance.